Racial Segregation in Modern Methodism - A Conversation with Ambassador Blango Ross
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 4 มิ.ย. 2024
- As you folks know, I have wanted the Global Methodist Church to be able to make good on the hopes of so many to become a truly multiethnic, global sign of Christ's presence and power. Racial separation hurts me. I believe it disappoints my Lord and cheapens his gospel.
So I and others need to have conversations with people of underrepresented constituencies so that we know how to work towards what we believe Christ requires. Blango, clergy from the UMC's Baltimore Washington Annual Conference, was willing to help me think through these things, drawing heavily on his decades of experience in ministry and life.
Many of you will enjoy this conversation very much. Blango and I are friends, and I believe we are paving the way for the future to look pretty different from the past and present.
Links:
Willimon Article (I didn't like it, of course, but it has the 4% stat in it) - www.christiancentury.org/feat... - บันเทิง
I attended an all black church because I asked my friend and co-worker when he would be preaching locally because I wanted to hear him. He is very intelligent and soft-spoken. I had to wait to hear him because there were 4 other preachers before him! At this church, it was an all-day worship service followed by dinner. I never felt more welcome by the members. I like the idea of exchanging preachers as long as God's Word is truthfully spoken. I thoroughly enjoyed listening to Blango. Thank you for having him on your podcast. ❤
Prayers for Blango as he goes to conference. Great interview. My husband and I are in the process of leaving UMC and finding a new Bible believing church.
Thank you for this chat.
This was a great conversation. Good to know of Pastor Blango. That’s the attitude all clergies should have going into any church. I have the same experience serving an all White congregation as a minority woman. Thanks again for your ministry and God bless 🙏😇
Amen. I agree with Pastor Blango. Division is from the enemy.
Awesome prayer to end this interview!
Great prayer
Love you asked him what he thinks about AME and other black churches and the GMC! But his answer hurt my heart. I heard we would rather just be separate.😢 the broken UMC has
soured this man on connection.
That was pretty good interview. I appreciate you doing that. I really enjoy what you're doing, these podcasts keep me informed and my mind engaged with the topics of our denomination and faith. I have a cert in Black Church Studies, doesn't make me an expert by ANY means, (might make me less qualified). I'm GMC, WCA, Conservative, I did cringe, a little, at your questions about Black churches joining the GMC, especially in respect maybe of the AME, AMEZ, CME denominational churches. The question might be why didn't we join them when we left. If the trust clauses in those denominations were the only reason we might need to look at the heart of that reasoning, because I'm sure they might address those if there was serious discussion on it. I think if we were to have serious discussion on mergers, you would have to address safeguarding their bishops, their churches, their pastors, their voices in election of bishops and leadership, etc. Yes, we need to get beyond the racial divisions, but we need to address some precautions and some safeguards with people who might be suspicious of that cooperation (and rightfully so). Can you imagine if 1/4 of the UMC 96% white congregations that left joined up with AME/AMEZ/CME, how much of a voice would Black Churches lose, how much of their own determinism might be lost in that merger. Blango is right the churches a block away from each other exist, even in my town. I have often wondered, if the UMC is so racial atuned, then why wouldn't they merge those congregations and put into action their desire for inclusion and diversity. The discussion on the populations they serve is an important one, and who's church would you close, whose hertiage becomes subordinate essentially, maybe both in the name of creating something new. Its a difficult set of problems (not beyond the power of God, though). But thank you for starting and having that discussion. I do think that as cultural Christianity continues to grow and infect churches in the States, we will be much more inclined to seek out like-minded theology, regardless of race or denominational origin to worship in a Spirit of Truth, and true doctrine. Thanks for what you're doing Jeffrey.
The past wrongs need to be recognized and some attempt needs to be made to make them right.
Hood Theological Seminary in Salisbury had been offering weekend MDiv for a long long time. That’s Salisbury, NC.
It is a Methodist seminary.
Most United Methodist Historically in the Western North Carolina Conference attended Hood Theological Seminary.
That is in the 90s and now and the attendees are not majority black.
It is 4% for a reason. Duh!!
Good interview! My dad served a black UMC back in the 80s. He said they were some of his best parishioners!
Thank you for this great interview, full of insight but even better, inspiring solutions! I didn’t hear a lot of talk of European Americans being invited to attend black churches in their neighborhoods.
I am EA and once joined a AME church one of my friends attended after he invited me to come. I was a member for three years, one of five EAs, and also did two years on the praise team. The church celebrated its 100th anniversary, but then fell on financial hard times and closed, after 100 years!
The pastor had gambled away the treasury and left suddenly over night. He had been transferred from California by the hierarchy, where he had also embezzled money at another AME. The bishop had done the transfer in full knowledge of his deeds. Please make sure in your alliance that financial and stewardship instruction is included and a process to deal with irregularities is firmly in place. Thank you and God Bless you.
The Protestant Western Church has never lived into the tenets of the Acts 2 Church, but the Axe 2 Church. The sin of racism is still rampant and alive and well in the “church.”
Great interview. Fascinating man. Enjoyed hearing his perspective.
First will be last, God sees our hearts. Glad you always keep this front and center
I've been watching your videos for awhile, and this may be my favorite. Maybe because there are several personal touch points made by Blango. I was born & raised Methodist in Cumberland, MD (the town where the white minister told the black bishop that the church he was looking for was down the street). I know where that black church is or perhaps was, as many churches have closed in that town. That was many years ago, and now I am pastoring the first GMC church in West Virginia, as I left the UMC, along with ~30 others, and the Balt/Wash Conference that Blango is member of. As a matter of fact, the handful of "refugees" left behind in that UMC church is one of the 37 that is in the lawsuit that he mentioned. I and 85% of that church left, without property, and have been worshiping in a funeral home nearby, since Jul 2, 2023. As you know, the progressive Bishop Easterling, has made it impossible for most churches to leave, and when Blango mentioned about his church voting to become a "cultural church" it reminded me of the church we left in WV, because our past church was exactly that, a "cultural church", but the Bishop has caused it to close. We were a small congregation (35-50) on a mountain, where the community was raised, baptized, married, and buried . They still feel abandoned by the Bishop, and she has proven not to appreciate the value of a "community church". Sorry, I guess I'm ranting... Hopefully the court will rule in the people's favor who built those churches, ours 140 years ago. Keep up the good work in the Kingdom +
Look into the post-Civil War Methodist Episcopal Church's Mississippi Mission Conference circa 1865. Organized by Bishop Thomson with Revs. Ames, Newman, and others, it was aggressively populating its pulpits with African American preachers. Its commitment to pan-racial churches and ministry is unparalleled. The Conference included Louisiana and, beyond its pan-racial churches, sponsored integrated teacher training schools.
This Conference sent resolutions to the 1872 MEC General Conference appealing for integrated churches and conferences and agitated for the election of African American bishops with full jurisdictional authority equal to all other bishops.
AME, AME Zion, and CME will not join the GMC. Some of the top leadership in GMC was in the UMC and sat on committees to try to join with the UMC and know the experience of who will want to be in control of the property and finances from past conversations as well as top leadership.
So what do you think it would take to come together? I understand many bad things have happened in the past. Is that the last word? Or are there things that could be said and done that would make a way for a different kind of future?
Jeff, Blango was very interesting. He certainly tried to be very patient with your ignorance. He is exactly right. You and the GMC need some serious re-education especially before becoming a white minority in a predominately African church. You might have heard some of that from me before.
One question you asked him just left me shaking my head: Why doesn't the over 200 year old, 2.5 million member African Methodist Episcopal Church with 7000+ congregations and 20 active bishops in numerous countries.and a well established polity and Statement of Faith (SoF) petition the ragtag GMC refugees of the UMC shipwreck with 7000 mostly lily white congregations, ONLY 2 bishops (one of which clearly doesn't want the job) and NO settled polity or SoF? Does that make it plain enough? Blango tried hard to be nice but he clearly didn't know whether to laugh or cry.. Let's ask the saner question: Why did you and the GMC (particularly your churches in the Deep South) not petition to join the AME and submit to their bishops and SoF, rather than build from scratch on sand?? Have you even read their SoF?? It is a standard Wesleyan SoF.
One reason they will NOT join you is their Article 5 on the Bible. If you are dead set on an inerrancy clause, they will laugh in your face. You said you want them onboard, but you also want them to bow the knee to something they know is easily proved to be a lie: inerrancy. See 2 Samuel 24:1-9 and 1 Chron 21: 1-5. There are several errors and inconsistencies just in those short passages that prove inerrancy a silly lie. Is it Yahweh or Satan that inspired David to conduct a census that makes Yahweh furious?? Were there 800,000 Israelite warriors or 1.1 million? This shoots the Chicago statement to blazes. It does not make the Bible useless or unreliable.
Inerrancy is a lie, plain and simple. If you ask a good man of integrity (Especially one smarter than you are, like Ken Collins) to swear to something he KNOWS is a lie, he will tell you to take a long walk on a very short pier every time. This is what Ken Collins was trying to tell you gently. Yes he said it very badly in nearly incoherent academic language But it WAS in an academic journal addressed to his academic colleagues. And more importantly, he was right. All he asked was that he and people like him (and I am one of those) be judged by the fruit they had clearly shown over decades, rather than by their failure to parrot a false shibboleth that Jesus never required of any one. Paul never included inerrancy in any sermon or statement of Faith that he endorsed (It is only Christ and Him crucified , right?) Peter, NEVER required or taught inerrancy - not at Pentecost, not to Cornelius. AND John Wesley never believed in inerrancy nor required such a belief. Do you really want these good men of integrity shut out of your new church??
Inerrancy was in the Westminster Confession (along with a lot of other lies and nonsense) but it did NOT keep the Presbyterian Church from going woke and rotten. Nor has it kept the prosperity gospel out of the Pentecostal churches. Satan's minions will swear to anything. You surely know that by now.
Any Statement of Faith besides Jesus and him crucified and risen is a false gospel and anathema. SoFs are the gates of the church. The UMC HAD gates but it guarded them with evil men and women and so they were useless.. The GMC thinks stricter gates were the problem when they refused to judge some some pretty obviously rotten fruit for decades. Now you want to throw the wheat out with the tares because you cannot tell the difference??? Shame on you! Start learning HOW to judge fruit.
Plain Spoken John in Uganda
PS My wife of the Ankole tribe says I am being too hard on you. I say that if I do not correct you, who will? We are all wrong sometimes. It is insisting on staying wrong that is evil.
John, you're welcome to judge fruit how you see fit. I'm more concerned about how God judges fruit. I won't claim to know exactly how he's going to do that. When I facilitate these conversations around inerrancy, my hope is not to speak for God, but to help delineate how an institution can best mitigate risk and promote faithfulness. The notion that fruits are the only means of assessing an orthodox faith falls apart pretty quickly when looking at Jehovah's Witnesses or Mormons. Both have departed from such faith, but they bear great fruit.
Biblical inerrancy isn't my primary topic, nor would I claim to be an expert in it. I'm generally sympathetic to Tom McCall, who would claim to be an inerrantist Wesleyan. If you want to call him an idiot, that is your prerogative. I'm not really going to participate in the discourse the way that you have here. There is a way to engage in disagreement without personal insult and accusation. I generally see people who cannot do that as weak and immature. I can tell you that I won't really be moved to change by a harsh tone.
I'm concerned that you think you can read Blango's mind. I'll let him represent himself and his thoughts if he reads through your comments, and he can tell you if he really received me as being the moron your portray here. I can say that your rhetoric of 'lily white' is racist and unhelpful. I can't honestly say why or if GMC leadership approached AME or AME Zion leadership to see about submitting to them, or on what conditions we could do so. I'm not privy to those conversations. The conversation I'm having right now is about unity in the church catholic. I knew in talking about this openly that folks like you would mock. I'll let you answer to Jesus for that.
I won't claim to have all the answers. I see what I see, and those things change with new information. I learn from those who can be charitable. I'm not sure you're one of those people. You might do well to consider your wife's counsel, but then, that is between you and her. If you have something of substance to offer in response, you're welcome. If you have more insults, you can keep those to yourself. I didn't start this channel as a therapy session for angry or spiteful men. If you see my earnest questions as continuing in ignorance, then I can anticipate for you that you won't do well to continue watching my content. If you respond rudely, I can make that decision for you.
Well said Jeffery.
Such a good question: why didn’t the GMC petition to be part of the AME?
The answer seems obvious to me, a mainly white American organization wouldn’t even imagine being subjugated to a Black organization. It’s not even in their realm of thinking or possibility.
As Joe Madison always said, “In America, we are culturally conditioned to believe, that White is superior, Black is inferior, and the manifestation of that cultural conditioning is that Black people are undervalued, underestimated and marginalized. It's not a racist statement. It's a fact of life.”
It’s also why Black houses of worship endure because they serve as refuge from a week living in places and spaces not designed for us to thrive and be celebrated, places where we have to make white folks feel “comfortable” and not “threatened” by our presence.
You blame the division of white and Black congregations on Black people?😂