Grover Cleveland Alexander obviously is one of the top 10. He broke into the majors with a 28 win rookie season, and had 3 consecutive seasons with 30+ wins. Any modern pitcher who sets up batters with fastballs and then strikes them out with a sneaky slider owe Alexander a debt of gratitude.
@@Gnofg Roger clemens had 0 no hitters and 7 cy young awards Nolan had no hitters no cy young awards nolan ryan faced 22,575 hitters and only 3923 got a hit off him, only 321 hitters hit a homerun off him 2795 got walked 5714 struck out, and the rest grounded out, hit a fly out and hit pop ups to the infield or outfield Some more notable Nolan Ryan records: - Lowest career batting average allowed (minimum 1,500 innings pitched): .204 - 12 career 1-hitters, tied with Bob Feller - 18 career 2-hitters - 31 career 3-hitters - 15 200-strikeout seasons - 6 300-strikeout seasons - 4 career 19+ strikeout games - 5 career 18+ strikeout games - 8 career 17+ strikeout games - 16 career 16+ strikeout games And many many more…
@@IHaveTheSchwartz Sandy Koufax maybe... Go look at almost any other list and none of them have Nolan Ryan. He was close or an honorable mention but most agree not quite top 10
haha! be that as it may- when something is illegal, it’s the criminals that benefit the most unless they’re caught. So they’ll always have an asterisk next to those *amazing feats
The idea that it was dark era or a shameful time that should be stricken from our collective memories is coming straight from the high priesthood of sportswriters who enjoy sniffing their own farts on a daily basis. These guys made their careers writing about, and in the most agonizingly corny way moralized the PED issue non stop for 20 years. Demanding ridiculous Congressional hearings, even lobbying hard to get legendary players thrown in federal prison. Plus the moral panic that they instigated and fanned for like 15 to 20 years. I hate them far more than any 90s player who didn't even break a rule by using PEDs back then. They're despicable, corny, old, out of touch Boomers who need to stfu. No one asked your nerdy uncoordinated ass to be the moral police of the MLB.
I cant fault you putting Mariano Rivera up there, i personally wouldnt have put him in my top ten because i value starters more but I will admit the argument for Rivera is solid. He was head and shoulders above everyone else at his position for so long and his postseason numbers are absolutely staggering. But how could you leave Nolan Ryan off this list? He should be top 5!
Nolan Ryan never had a five year WAR above 27.5. NOlan Ryan never won a cy Young Award; Nolan Ryan had a 112 ERA+. He is without doubt the most over-rated pitcher in MLB history.
there i fixed the list guys dont worry #1 Sandy Koufax #2 Pedro Martinez #3 Greg Maddox #4 Nolan Ryan #5 Roger Clemons #6 Randy Johnson #7 Walter Johnson #8 Cy Young #9 Mariano #10 Roki Sasaki
Amen to Sandy Koufax and his .95 ERA in 50+ World Series innings. Mariano Rivera #2?? A relief pitcher can come in with 2 outs give up 2 hits and get one out and have his ERA lowered. BS
10 Christy Mathewson 9. Greg Maddux 8. Tom Seaver 7. Grover Cleveland Alexander 6. Pedro Martinez 5. Cy Young 4. Randy Johnson 3. Roger Clemens 2. Lefty Grove 1. Walter Johnson
Ok, when Randy Johnson came on at three, I was like, "okay so that leaves Nolan Ryan and who else for the last two. How in the world do you leave Nolan ryan off of this list?
too many walks and WHIP was never that good. also never won a cy young. im a HUGE ryan fan always called him the greatest as a kid but theres a lot more to the game that just Ks. tho i do think he deserves at least top 3 or 5. but players like maddox, pedro and koufax were true dominant pitchers in terms of shuting teams down. one of these three should be number 1. sandy dominated the game for 6 straight seasons and 5 straight with a WHIP under 1. shit was actually insane if you look up his numbers.
Sandy Koufax # 1 Not even close ! All other pitchers you list could not shine his shoes. Look at the 5 year period 1963 to1968 The greatest 5 consecutive year of complete and utter domination.
Nolan Ryan should have been number 1; he holds 2 records that will never be broken total strikeouts, and most no hitters!!! He had over 300 wins, and if he would have played for better teams I believe he could have been nearer 400 wins!!! He even got better as his career went on, his longevity and strength as a pitcher was off the charts!!! He had something like 18 one hitters, and about as many 2 hitters!!!
He never won a Cy Young his entire career because he was never the best pitcher in any year. I grew up with him. Seaver was a much better pitcher and he wasn't close to Koufax who was easily the best. Seaver's teams were no better that Ryan's team. You guys who read stats and weren't alive have no idea who was the best. Same goes for the people who love Pete Maravich.
@@Gnofg oh I know. His walks and control issues are outrageous. I was merely referring to the fact that 7 games of a career is not a metric that means much.
It wasn’t just because of Gibson who pitched in the NL. The AL batting champ Carl Yastrzemski, batted 301 that year making him the only batter hitting over 300 in the AL that year. Pitching in general was shutting down offenses, which is not to imply that Gibson wasn’t dominant or what he did wasn’t otherworldly, it was.
Case in point: on straight ERA, Grove does not make the top 100, because of the time in which he pitched, but ERA+ is far more revealing. There it will be seen that he was an all-time great.
@sportspotlight6722 yeah but yours is nonsense. Putting all these guys from the 1900s throwing 70 mph fastballs to fat drunks and pretending like theyre better than someone like Nolan Ryan is insane.
So, Maddux was at 8 because you don't know how good he could've been because of the steroid era that he dominated?!?!? Also, why is Clemens on this list at all?
I always think there should be two separate lists. Pitchers from modern baseball, and pitchers before that. It's impossible to compare someone like Walter Johnson for example to Randy Johnson. Era's are so different. Mechanics are different, literally everything. If Walter Johnson pitched in the modern era, his numbers would not look like they did then. Not suggesting he wasn't great, it's just the game has evolve is all. For example, many don't know this. Walter Johnson, known as a great fastball pitcher. Probably only threw high 80s, maybe early 90s tops. His fastball was clocked in the 80s... You put that in the modern era, he'd get killed. Now, I realize those whacky pitching delivers back then were not good... And he'd probably have completely different pitching mechanics if he pitched today. Another thing this is he pitched in the dead ball era, where the offense just doesn't compared to modern baseball. Just saying the eras are different. You can't look at his numbers, and say 'goat'. That's why each era you can't compare. And they should be separated. This is not being disrespectful to Walter Johnson. He obviously was magnificent in his era, and should be celebrated for it. I just don't think it necessarily makes him the goat. And it's impossible to compare it to pitchers from the modern baseball era. Just my two cents. Modern day pitchers for me it's. Maddux, Pedo, Randy Johnson, Koufax, Bob Gibson, Roger Clemens, Nolan Ryan, Mariano Rivera (I just can't put a relief pitcher higher than the guys on the list - but yeah, he was amazing), Tom Seager, Kershaw (I figure I'd throw someone from today's era so I'm not hating, but a lot of guys could replace him easily).
All good sense. It should also be noted that you raise any modern pitcher in the dead ball era, and they wouldn't be as strong or skilled either. They'd be entirely different men.
You make fair points about the way the game being played completely changing how they'd be in different eras. One thing I will say though is that they likely wouldn't have had very accurate readings on fastball speed when Walter Johnson was throwing blazers. Additionally, as I understand it the modern fastball speeds are slightly inflated because of where the ball is measured from being different. Everyone thought Walter Johnson was throwing sizzlers then, I don't see it as unlikely that the guy could've been pitching at today's speeds
@@Rspknlikeab0ssxd I would tend to agree: he was a big guy: it's probable he was throwing in the 90s. The bottom line is that these GOAT arguments are all pretty meaningless; yet, we all seem compelled to make them. Not just in sport, but every other field of human endeavor as well--we all want to know who's the top dog.
@@nicholasschroeder3678 I don't think the debates are meaningless because at the least someone will be the best given certain criteria/categories. Like Hank Aaron for home runs without steroids or Ricky Henderson for bases stolen. But does having the most home runs mean best home run hitter? Let alone hitter? Probably not necessarily. And all the different pitchers that they hit off of, or vastly different plate appearances, and other assets. Man it's a lot to consider. But still I think one could make compelling arguments if they took the time😂
My Top 12 1. Walter Johnson 2. Christy Mathewson 3. Grover Alexander 4. Cy Young 5. Tom Seaver 6. Randy Johnson 7. Greg Maddox 8. Warren Spahn 9. Lefty Grove 10. Pedro Martinez 11. Bob Gibson 12. Steve Carleton or Bob Feller. I go back and forth with this one. Not putting any steroids user on my list. No Clemens. Kershaw is still active. He will make my list when he stops playing. No Koufax. Too many not great years. Amazing 5 years but this was during a dead ball era and his mound was excessively high.
Grove should be much higher. But you have the savvy to know he belongs near the top. Grove was much more efficient than Mathewson, Alexander, Young, Seaver, Maddux, or Spahn. Proof: he had a higher pitching WAR than any of them in about 1200 fewer innings. And the poster has the top ten there though I think he continued to 12.
@@petersonofleo11 His peak from 1973-77 was 27.5. almost all the guys on the real top ten had over 40, and Lefty Grve had over 40 twice for five years in the modern era.
Needs to be a top 25 to include Cy Young, Bob Feller, Sandy Koufax, Steve Carlton, Juan Marichal, Ferguson Jenkins, Nolan Ryan, Tom Seaver and though I hate to say it Roger Clemmons and Warren Spahn, Gaylord Perry, Phil Neikro, Tom Glavine and many others!
If not for World War II, Bob Feller would have lapped some of these. Missed basically 4 full seasons. Averaged 26 wins in the 3 years before the war. Won 26 his first full year after. So, if Feller wins 370 games, where does he fit on this list?
Using that logic, every player from the past was crap. The ONLY thing that matters is how dominant a player was against his contemporaries. Otherwise, you might as well, just take today's all-stars and forget even having lists like this. @@sportspotlight6722
@@sportspotlight6722 That's a ridiculous justification. By using your logic, Walter Johnson, Carl Hubble, and Christy Mathewson wouldn't quality either. Would Babe Ruth, Ty Cobb, or Lou Gehrig NOT be considered all-time great hitters because they batted against sub-par athletes?
Truth. I would only make one caveat, in that you have to put Babe Ruth underneath, with an asterisk. Most underrated pitcher in history. Really, possibly most underrated player as well.
No Cy Young, Sandy Koufax, Lefty Grove, Grover Cleveland Alexander, Bob Feller? Far too many from the steroid era, Randy Johnson & Rivera and that should do it. No question Cy Young and Koufax belong on any “greatest pitcher” list.
Just because you could not test for it does not mean people did not cheat back in the day. like rigging games and world series?? lets all agree baseball has been in an indefinite cheating period on one sort or another
Feller was too wild. Like a young Ryan. I can't believe this video missed Koufax. He was a terror for 6 yrs. Gibson had the greatest one year 1.12 E.R.A.
1. Nice try though; nice video. But oh, come on now. Nolan was the guy that Burgess Meredith screamed at Rocky not to fight. #1 most frightening pitcher any batter *ever* faced. Like stopping Gretzky. Facing Tyson. Guarding Wilt. You totally whiffed. Nolan far, by far #1 all time. 2. Babe Ruth was probably better than Nolan. The only reason he didn't go 140-0 was the games he drank the night before. JMO ! Bonus. I would rather face several of those than Koufax. I'd rather face prime Gibson than Koufax. And Cy Young is not top 10?
No Koufax, Grove, Seaver, Feller, Young and 13 time 20 game winner Warren Spahn. Rivera was great but these men were dominant 200-300 innings a year. Unbelievable!!!!
"Maddux would've been higher on the list except for the fact that he played in the steroid era?" That doesn't make sense. He no question that he faced countless steroid-abusing batter during most of his career, right? So, doesn't it make sense to place him higher on the list? The only reason to place him lower would be because he was suspected of taking steroids. He wasn't.
His problem was he did not play long enough He had a fine peak but nothing else. Lefty Grove had an53.1 WAR from 1928-33 in 1683.2 innings; Sandy Koufax had a 53.1 WAR for his career in 2324.1 innings. Fr the rest of his career Grove had 60.2 WAR in 2257 innings. Lefty Grove had two careers each substantially better than Koufax one. It would be fair to say that Grove was twice the pitcher that Koufax was
@@sportspotlight6722 Maddux is on my top 5 of all time starters. Not only did he have one of the lowest E.R.A's to innings pitched, not only least amount of walks, but 18 gold gloves.Best ever as a fielding pitcher,a little more cat like speed than Kaat.
Mariano Rivera blew the Yankees ' chance to sweep my beloved Red Sox. He walked Kevin Millar, who almost never walked. It was nothing new as the Red Sox had Rivera's number for quite some time back then.
It's hard to make a top 10 list because there's been SO many spectacular pitchers. A lot of people have been commenting about Nolan Ryan, I'd add Sandy Koufax and Cy Young as almost certainly making my top 10. Bob Feller and Satchel Paige, plus *controversially* Roger Clemons are good additions too
Agreed it is very hard as time goes on and more great players pop up. Like this list does not have Ohtani on it and lets be real he is already top 15 on his way to top 5 not on this list but all time
Great choice to exclude Nolan Ryan. Ryan (112 ERA+/Avg season 14-12/2 post season victories/0 cy young awards) is nowhere near top 10 . Fanbois try to put him there for some reasons. There are at least 50 pitchers in MLB history you'd rather have a game start if your life depended on it than Ryan. In fact Ryan never had a signature win or performance in a game that mattered.
@@alansnow1129 112 ERA+ is barely better than the average pitcher! 2,795 Walks, a large 1.25 WHIP, 321 HRs given up, a low .526 Win Pct., with his 292 Losses. He was no Walter Johnson with 279 Losses but far more wins at 417, and his 1.06 WHIP was sensational, as was his MLB leading 110 ShO; large 147 ERA+ dwarfs Ryan's by a huge margin, etc.
Maddux is on my top 5 of all time starters. Not only did he have one of the lowest E.R.A's to innings pitched, not only least amount of walks, but 18 gold gloves.Best ever as a fielding pitcher,a little more cat like speed than Kaat.
As I said in a previous post you need a pre and post WW2 Pre W Johnson Cy Young Mathewson G Alexander L Grove Post R Johnson Gibson Koufax Maddux Seaver
The only embarrasment is thinking Clayton Kershaw is not head and shoulders better than NOlan Ryan. And lots of top ten lists leave off 19th century pitchers.
I feel you're missing some of the best. Like Cy Young and Koufax. Also Pedro Martinez should be a bit higher, maybe not #1 but he hold the best season ever by era+ and did it during Barry Bonds' peak years
Maddux won more golden gloves than any player ever, at any position. His fastball was among the slowest in the league so thinking he was using steroids is hilarious.
The guys on this list are all right just they’re all in the wrong spots. Mariano Rivera might not get into the top ten, #2 is absolutely insane. Pedro Martinez is easily top 3 all time and Greg Maddux is top 5. Walter Johnson deserves a mention and possibly top ten, but not top five. Overall this is a decent list needs some work tho
Another list that does not have Lefty Grove, the most under-rated super star in MLB history. Hubbell had two ERA titles ; Grove had nine. Grove had 113.3 WAR for his career more than most any of these guys. Johnson is number one, but Grove, not anybody else is number two
How Tom Seaver, Sandy Koufax and Steve Carlton aren’t on this list is astounding. A gross oversight. Roger Clemons doesn’t belong here because of his steroid use.
Nolan Ryan is not one of the top 10 pitchers in MLB history. At his best he was great, with 7 no-hitters, and of course he leads in career strikeouts. But he also had 8 losing seasons, and lost nearly 300 games in his career, with just a .526 career winning percentage. A great pitcher, but not top 10 all time.
7:15... absolutely NOT! The league was limited with only one ethnicity allowed to play in the league. This dude's career should have an asterisk beside it because of that.
You should have titled it my favorite ten pitchers. No reliever should be on this list. Make a separate list for relievers. It is amazing how social media has given everyone a platform. If Nolan Ryan isn't on your list you don't understand the game of baseball
Cy Young, Lefty Grove and Kid Nichols should be on that list.. Check the stats.. Sandy Koufax no slouch either.. Satchel Paige..? I'd take Verlander over Kershaw too for honorable mention.. I mean the reality is, Eddie Feigner would put all these guys in the dust doing it with bigger balls and only four guys.. haha At least you got Walter Johnson right and the other guys are all good too tho some debate about top ten..
I see some people disagreeing with the video, kinda new to baseball more of a basketball fan, can someone explain why Nolan Ryan being left off the list is controversial?
Records for most strikeouts and no hitters. Besides that he was a workhorse that pitched a record 27 seasons, 1 of 5 pitchers who have more strikeouts than innings pitched, and his career batting average against is .204 which is the lowest for a starting pitchers career. However he did have some control issues which is why he is also the career leader in walks.
@@jacjr6193 112 ERA+ is nothing to consider being Top 10, nor his 2,795 Walks, 321 HRs given up, 3.19 ERA, 292 Losses, etc. Barely over an average pitcher with his 112 ERA+, almost 300 Losses, almost 2,800 Walks, etc. I wuld not put him in any key game I had to win! W. Johnson, C. Mathewson, Pete Alexander, Bob Gibson, or Lefty Grove would be my Starting 5 as the most competitive, best one-game-to-win pitchers! And if I had to have a 6th, it would be Greg Maddux. The guy was unbelievable! Low Walk %, (similar to Mathewson), an excellent W-L % (.610), a terrific 132 ERA+ (beats Kourfax at 131), and a 1.14 WHIP. Also beats Koufax on HR/9 with his 0.6 / 9; Koufax 0.8 / 9. Koufax only pitched 6 good years of his 12, and only his final 4 were considered outstanding. So, not all his own fault, but he wasted half his career trying to learn how to pitch. Maddux was wonderful by his 3rd year, pitching 23 years. Longevity has to count more than only 4 outstanding years as Koufax had (1963-66). And 5,008 IP for Maddux is far superior to K-man's 2,324.
@@freeguy77 nice 5. Here’s mine without copying any of your guys. Sandy Koufax, Pedro Martinez, Randy Johnson, Greg Maddux, and Curt Schilling assuming this is do or die, win or go home, etc.
Wtf? Kershaw is on this list but not Nolan Ryan?
For real
that is fucking ridiculous !
Nolan Ryan had insane longetivity but tbh he never had a great peak comparable to other all time greats.
@@petersonofleo11 single season record in strikeouts
@@mikeimpressionsreviews He walked 162 hitters that season and only had an ERA+ of 123 which is a little above average.
Where's nolan ryan
Yeah, this guy fucked up for left out Nolan.
I know
Was waiting for #0, because no one will ever match Nolan Ryan
It’s like leaving Led Zeppelin out of a rock n roll too 10 list. Wtf?
Yes one of the Best
Grover Cleveland Alexander obviously is one of the top 10. He broke into the majors with a 28 win rookie season, and had 3 consecutive seasons with 30+ wins. Any modern pitcher who sets up batters with fastballs and then strikes them out with a sneaky slider owe Alexander a debt of gratitude.
Good ole Grover
Cy Young, Nolan Ryan, Bob Feller, Tom Seaver, Sandy Koufax?
This list was put together by grade schooler's.
Sandy Koufax had a .95 ERA in 50+ World Series innings!!!
Too many pitchers and only so many spots. Someone had to miss out
@@sportspotlight6722you don't know baseball. Koufax is definitely top 10
Bad answer @@sportspotlight6722
WHAT ABOUT NOLAN RYAN
AND CY YOUNG
Nolan never won a Cy Young. Ask yourself why.
@@Gnofg Roger clemens had 0 no hitters and 7 cy young awards
Nolan had no hitters no cy young awards
nolan ryan faced 22,575 hitters and only 3923 got a hit off him, only 321 hitters hit a homerun off him 2795 got walked 5714 struck out, and the rest grounded out, hit a fly out and hit pop ups to the infield or outfield
Some more notable Nolan Ryan records:
- Lowest career batting average allowed (minimum 1,500 innings pitched): .204
- 12 career 1-hitters, tied with Bob Feller
- 18 career 2-hitters
- 31 career 3-hitters
- 15 200-strikeout seasons
- 6 300-strikeout seasons
- 4 career 19+ strikeout games
- 5 career 18+ strikeout games
- 8 career 17+ strikeout games
- 16 career 16+ strikeout games
And many many more…
Lists without Koufax don't get taken seriously.
Yes or Nolan Ryan!!!
Not many people mentioned Koufax most were more upset with Nolan Ryan being left out
@@sportspotlight6722 Both are inexcusable
@@IHaveTheSchwartz Sandy Koufax maybe... Go look at almost any other list and none of them have Nolan Ryan. He was close or an honorable mention but most agree not quite top 10
@@IHaveTheSchwartz Neither is nearly as good as Robert Moses Grove.
Nolan Ryan for sure is on my top 10. And don’t forget about Cy Young. To legends that deserve respect
The steroid age was not a “dark age” for the MLB. It was some of the most entertaining TV I’ve ever seen
haha! be that as it may- when something is illegal, it’s the criminals that benefit the most unless they’re caught. So they’ll always have an asterisk next to those *amazing feats
The idea that it was dark era or a shameful time that should be stricken from our collective memories is coming straight from the high priesthood of sportswriters who enjoy sniffing their own farts on a daily basis. These guys made their careers writing about, and in the most agonizingly corny way moralized the PED issue non stop for 20 years. Demanding ridiculous Congressional hearings, even lobbying hard to get legendary players thrown in federal prison. Plus the moral panic that they instigated and fanned for like 15 to 20 years.
I hate them far more than any 90s player who didn't even break a rule by using PEDs back then.
They're despicable, corny, old, out of touch Boomers who need to stfu. No one asked your nerdy uncoordinated ass to be the moral police of the MLB.
It was a dark age for legitimacy is what he's eluding too. Hence why he's basically saying take stuff from that era with a grain of salt
It was a freak show. Ban the juicers.
The Sopranos was also entertaining. But sport is SUPPOSED to be about fair play.
Warren Spahn ,Cy Young
Good Ole Cy young
Warren Spahn, my boyhood pitching hero.
Barry Sanders.
Bo Jackson.
I cant fault you putting Mariano Rivera up there, i personally wouldnt have put him in my top ten because i value starters more but I will admit the argument for Rivera is solid. He was head and shoulders above everyone else at his position for so long and his postseason numbers are absolutely staggering. But how could you leave Nolan Ryan off this list? He should be top 5!
I need people to comment and doing things controversial always gets people to say something lol
Nolan Ryan never had a five year WAR above 27.5. NOlan Ryan never won a cy Young Award; Nolan Ryan had a 112 ERA+. He is without doubt the most over-rated pitcher in MLB history.
60's thru 2010's
My G.O.A.T. list of a solid 6 yr stints on each...
Koufax
Gibson
Seaver
Ryan
Carlton
Guidry
Clemens
Maddux
Martinez
Johnson
Kershaw.
there i fixed the list guys dont worry
#1 Sandy Koufax
#2 Pedro Martinez
#3 Greg Maddox
#4 Nolan Ryan
#5 Roger Clemons
#6 Randy Johnson
#7 Walter Johnson
#8 Cy Young
#9 Mariano
#10 Roki Sasaki
Koufax, only if your criteria are the best 4-year stretches.
Yeah no Walter Johnson surpasses them all.
Amen to Sandy Koufax and his .95 ERA in 50+ World Series innings. Mariano Rivera #2?? A relief pitcher can come in with 2 outs give up 2 hits and get one out and have his ERA lowered. BS
Make your own video too
10 Christy Mathewson
9. Greg Maddux
8. Tom Seaver
7. Grover Cleveland Alexander
6. Pedro Martinez
5. Cy Young
4. Randy Johnson
3. Roger Clemens
2. Lefty Grove
1. Walter Johnson
Strange not to see Cy Young or Lefty Grove on such a list.
Cy had a lot of losses.
Grove yes Young no
Grove is a definite top ten. Young is really debatable. Alexander was better from that era.
No matter who I leave out someone will disagree with me
Gotta love baseball. All great picks, but Nolan should be there!
Im more of a christopher nolan fan
Ryan 500 pitcher he is a no
The issue is who would you give the ball to in game 7 of ws? Koufax, Gibson, ...
Well that was answered and if its 2 runs or less after the 7th inning... Rivera and only Rivera
Kofax
Ok, when Randy Johnson came on at three, I was like, "okay so that leaves Nolan Ryan and who else for the last two. How in the world do you leave Nolan ryan off of this list?
too many walks and WHIP was never that good. also never won a cy young. im a HUGE ryan fan always called him the greatest as a kid but theres a lot more to the game that just Ks. tho i do think he deserves at least top 3 or 5. but players like maddox, pedro and koufax were true dominant pitchers in terms of shuting teams down. one of these three should be number 1. sandy dominated the game for 6 straight seasons and 5 straight with a WHIP under 1. shit was actually insane if you look up his numbers.
@@TsukiRaiki True but his FIP is amazing and better Jonson, Maddux, Verlander, Scherzer and Clemens.
@@standepain his fip is only 2.97. koufax had a 2.69
@@TsukiRaiki ...and? We're talking Ryan not Koufax.
@@TsukiRaiki A sub 3 FIP is incredible especially considering he pitched 5300 innings. Randy Johnsons is 3.19, Clemens 3.09, Maddux 3.26.
And my 10th pick is Fernando Valenzuela
was good for 5 seconds.....you gotta be a trolll right ?
Sandy Koufax # 1 Not even close ! All other pitchers you list could not shine his shoes. Look at the 5 year period 1963 to1968 The greatest 5 consecutive year of complete and utter domination.
Nolan Ryan should have been number 1; he holds 2 records that will never be broken total strikeouts, and most no hitters!!! He had over 300 wins, and if he would have played for better teams I believe he could have been nearer 400 wins!!! He even got better as his career went on, his longevity and strength as a pitcher was off the charts!!! He had something like 18 one hitters, and about as many 2 hitters!!!
I can not argue with these facts
He never won a Cy Young his entire career because he was never the best pitcher in any year. I grew up with him. Seaver was a much better pitcher and he wasn't close to Koufax who was easily the best. Seaver's teams were no better that Ryan's team. You guys who read stats and weren't alive have no idea who was the best. Same goes for the people who love Pete Maravich.
So giving this info. A guy threw two no hitters in one season, did he have a good year
@@MichaelClarke1980 I saw him play. He was inconsistent his entire career.
@@Gnofg oh I know. His walks and control issues are outrageous. I was merely referring to the fact that 7 games of a career is not a metric that means much.
Bob Gibson should at least be number three because they had to change the rules for that man
Someone that was soooo good that they had to change the mounds height and adjusted the strike zone... Jeeesus what are you even talking about
It wasn’t just because of Gibson who pitched in the NL. The AL batting champ Carl Yastrzemski, batted 301 that year making him the only batter hitting over 300 in the AL that year. Pitching in general was shutting down offenses, which is not to imply that Gibson wasn’t dominant or what he did wasn’t otherworldly, it was.
ERA+ or more pitching statistics comparing the pitchers to the pitchers of their seasons would be nice
ERA+ is a really good stat. WHIP and K/BB are good to measure pitchers across eras too
Case in point: on straight ERA, Grove does not make the top 100, because of the time in which he pitched, but ERA+ is far more revealing. There it will be seen that he was an all-time great.
Where is Sandy Kofax? Nolan Ryan? Cy Young? Tom Seaver? Steve Carlton? Jim Palmer?
The name "Top 10 Pitchers in MLB History" is unfortunate. You should have named it "My 10 Favourite Pitchers in MLB history"
Top 10 lists are all subjective and biased
Exactly! Give me Bib Gibson and Sandy Koufax end of list
@sportspotlight6722 yeah but yours is nonsense. Putting all these guys from the 1900s throwing 70 mph fastballs to fat drunks and pretending like theyre better than someone like Nolan Ryan is insane.
Whitey Ford should be on the list.
If ryan played on a team that could get him runs, he is the list.
Satchel Paige? pitched at 59 in the MLB and allowed only one hit in 3 innings - and that to Yaz
A list like this that does not include Nolan Ryan is RIDICULOUS!
Satchell Paige & Koufax were the best along with Johnson
So, Maddux was at 8 because you don't know how good he could've been because of the steroid era that he dominated?!?!? Also, why is Clemens on this list at all?
I always think there should be two separate lists. Pitchers from modern baseball, and pitchers before that. It's impossible to compare someone like Walter Johnson for example to Randy Johnson. Era's are so different. Mechanics are different, literally everything. If Walter Johnson pitched in the modern era, his numbers would not look like they did then. Not suggesting he wasn't great, it's just the game has evolve is all.
For example, many don't know this. Walter Johnson, known as a great fastball pitcher. Probably only threw high 80s, maybe early 90s tops. His fastball was clocked in the 80s... You put that in the modern era, he'd get killed. Now, I realize those whacky pitching delivers back then were not good... And he'd probably have completely different pitching mechanics if he pitched today.
Another thing this is he pitched in the dead ball era, where the offense just doesn't compared to modern baseball.
Just saying the eras are different. You can't look at his numbers, and say 'goat'. That's why each era you can't compare. And they should be separated. This is not being disrespectful to Walter Johnson. He obviously was magnificent in his era, and should be celebrated for it. I just don't think it necessarily makes him the goat. And it's impossible to compare it to pitchers from the modern baseball era. Just my two cents.
Modern day pitchers for me it's. Maddux, Pedo, Randy Johnson, Koufax, Bob Gibson, Roger Clemens, Nolan Ryan, Mariano Rivera (I just can't put a relief pitcher higher than the guys on the list - but yeah, he was amazing), Tom Seager, Kershaw (I figure I'd throw someone from today's era so I'm not hating, but a lot of guys could replace him easily).
All good sense. It should also be noted that you raise any modern pitcher in the dead ball era, and they wouldn't be as strong or skilled either. They'd be entirely different men.
Honestly this is all sports. You need a modern and post. Too many rule changes and way too many changes in playing styles to always compare
You make fair points about the way the game being played completely changing how they'd be in different eras. One thing I will say though is that they likely wouldn't have had very accurate readings on fastball speed when Walter Johnson was throwing blazers. Additionally, as I understand it the modern fastball speeds are slightly inflated because of where the ball is measured from being different. Everyone thought Walter Johnson was throwing sizzlers then, I don't see it as unlikely that the guy could've been pitching at today's speeds
@@Rspknlikeab0ssxd I would tend to agree: he was a big guy: it's probable he was throwing in the 90s. The bottom line is that these GOAT arguments are all pretty meaningless; yet, we all seem compelled to make them. Not just in sport, but every other field of human endeavor as well--we all want to know who's the top dog.
@@nicholasschroeder3678 I don't think the debates are meaningless because at the least someone will be the best given certain criteria/categories. Like Hank Aaron for home runs without steroids or Ricky Henderson for bases stolen. But does having the most home runs mean best home run hitter? Let alone hitter? Probably not necessarily. And all the different pitchers that they hit off of, or vastly different plate appearances, and other assets. Man it's a lot to consider. But still I think one could make compelling arguments if they took the time😂
My Top 12
1. Walter Johnson
2. Christy Mathewson
3. Grover Alexander
4. Cy Young
5. Tom Seaver
6. Randy Johnson
7. Greg Maddox
8. Warren Spahn
9. Lefty Grove
10. Pedro Martinez
11. Bob Gibson
12. Steve Carleton or Bob Feller. I go back and forth with this one.
Not putting any steroids user on my list. No Clemens.
Kershaw is still active. He will make my list when he stops playing.
No Koufax. Too many not great years. Amazing 5 years but this was during a dead ball era and his mound was excessively high.
Solid list and good reasoning
Grove should be much higher. But you have the savvy to know he belongs near the top. Grove was much more efficient than Mathewson, Alexander, Young, Seaver, Maddux, or Spahn. Proof: he had a higher pitching WAR than any of them in about 1200 fewer innings. And the poster has the top ten there though I think he continued to 12.
No Nolan Ryan.i thought he would be #1 for sure
Ryan is not in the top five, he was the pitcher more inconsistent of the greatest
Nolan Ryan didn't have a peak comparable to other all time greats.
@@petersonofleo11 His peak from 1973-77 was 27.5. almost all the guys on the real top ten had over 40, and Lefty Grve had over 40 twice for five years in the modern era.
Needs to be a top 25 to include Cy Young, Bob Feller, Sandy Koufax, Steve Carlton, Juan Marichal, Ferguson Jenkins, Nolan Ryan, Tom Seaver and though I hate to say it Roger Clemmons and Warren Spahn, Gaylord Perry, Phil Neikro, Tom Glavine and many others!
Roger Clemens would have gotten me some heat for being on here
Jim Palmer too
If not for World War II, Bob Feller would have lapped some of these. Missed basically 4 full seasons. Averaged 26 wins in the 3 years before the war. Won 26 his first full year after. So, if Feller wins 370 games, where does he fit on this list?
He was also playing against sub par athletes compared to today. No doubt athletes today are much better than before
Using that logic, every player from the past was crap. The ONLY thing that matters is how dominant a player was against his contemporaries. Otherwise, you might as well, just take today's all-stars and forget even having lists like this. @@sportspotlight6722
@@sportspotlight6722 That's a ridiculous justification. By using your logic, Walter Johnson, Carl Hubble, and Christy Mathewson wouldn't quality either.
Would Babe Ruth, Ty Cobb, or Lou Gehrig NOT be considered all-time great hitters because they batted against sub-par athletes?
Bro Nolan is the greatest pitcher ever to play mlb. An he never won a cy young.
Truth.
I would only make one caveat, in that you have to put Babe Ruth underneath, with an asterisk. Most underrated pitcher in history. Really, possibly most underrated player as well.
No Cy Young, Sandy Koufax, Lefty Grove, Grover Cleveland Alexander, Bob Feller? Far too many from the steroid era, Randy Johnson & Rivera and that should do it. No question Cy Young and Koufax belong on any “greatest pitcher” list.
Just because you could not test for it does not mean people did not cheat back in the day. like rigging games and world series?? lets all agree baseball has been in an indefinite cheating period on one sort or another
even worse, no willians astudillo,,,, or,,, remember the Bird, from the tigers...aaah only a couple of years...hahah this is a Bad top 10 list ...
Clayton Chokeshaw
do you know him that well?
@@sportspotlight6722 He put up close to Koufax numbers. I can't believe I missed his era being so busy with work.
@@sportspotlight6722 He watched baseball in October
Ummm Nolan Ryan, Cy, Koufax, and Bob Feller. I don’t know about this list.
Feller was too wild. Like a young Ryan. I can't believe this video missed Koufax. He was a terror for 6 yrs. Gibson had the greatest one year 1.12 E.R.A.
1. Nice try though; nice video. But oh, come on now. Nolan was the guy that Burgess Meredith screamed at Rocky not to fight. #1 most frightening pitcher any batter *ever* faced. Like stopping Gretzky. Facing Tyson. Guarding Wilt. You totally whiffed. Nolan far, by far #1 all time.
2. Babe Ruth was probably better than Nolan. The only reason he didn't go 140-0 was the games he drank the night before. JMO !
Bonus. I would rather face several of those than Koufax. I'd rather face prime Gibson than Koufax. And Cy Young is not top 10?
This list is trash. Got some great pitchers in the list, but missing the best.
Sandy Koufax won 3 Cy Young awards when only one was picked. Not an American League and Naional
@@fjbrandon6044 I don't understand what you were trying to say, but liked your reply because I like your name.
@@fjbrandon6044 Koufax's five year peak from 1962-66 was 5.3 WAR lower that Lefty Grove's 1929-33 peak and Grove only pitched 44 more innings
1. Seaver
2. Spahn
3. Grove
4. Maddux
5. Ford
At least there was no Nolan Ryan. Everyone hates me for leaving out Ryan. Ford was a new one though so thank you as well.
No Koufax, Grove, Seaver, Feller, Young and 13 time 20 game winner Warren Spahn. Rivera was great but these men were dominant 200-300 innings a year. Unbelievable!!!!
Grove and Feller and Koufax, and possibly Spahn and Alexander should be top ten. Grove, in era context, could be the very best.
Could be
Smart post. He was the best and the most under-rated great in MLB history without question.
Missing Grove, Young, Alexander, Clemens
But some props for leaving out Nolan Ryan and Sandy Koufax
"Maddux would've been higher on the list except for the fact that he played in the steroid era?" That doesn't make sense. He no question that he faced countless steroid-abusing batter during most of his career, right? So, doesn't it make sense to place him higher on the list? The only reason to place him lower would be because he was suspected of taking steroids. He wasn't.
I agree about Walter Johnson, but. Nolan Ryan and Koufax should be on this list. Koufax had 4 no hitters in 4 consecutive seasons.
Koufax is probably the one that should have been.
Forget about goo-gaws like no hitters. They are fun but they should not be a factor on a list like this.
Did I miss something? Sandy Koufax was a pretty fair pitcher.
Fair pitcher indeed
His problem was he did not play long enough He had a fine peak but nothing else. Lefty Grove had an53.1 WAR from 1928-33 in 1683.2 innings; Sandy Koufax had a 53.1 WAR for his career in 2324.1 innings. Fr the rest of his career Grove had 60.2 WAR in 2257 innings. Lefty Grove had two careers each substantially better than Koufax one. It would be fair to say that Grove was twice the pitcher that Koufax was
I completely agree with this list..💯
not many people have so thank you
@@sportspotlight6722 Maddux is on my top 5 of all time starters. Not only did he have one of the lowest E.R.A's to innings pitched, not only least amount of walks, but 18 gold gloves.Best ever as a fielding pitcher,a little more cat like speed than Kaat.
Mariano Rivera blew the Yankees ' chance to sweep my beloved Red Sox. He walked Kevin Millar, who almost never walked. It was nothing new as the Red Sox had Rivera's number for quite some time back then.
Roids should be mandatory so us fans get the best possible product.
We need more juice
Respectable list and great editing! I was just looking for a video to remind me of the best pitchers and this was perfect. Have a great day everyone 😊
I appreciate the comment
Where are Lefty Grove, Sandy Koufax, Steve Carlton, and Jim Palmer?
Since the award for best pitcher is named after him, how can Cy Young not be on this list?
I often imagine if Mo had been a starter would he have had a Pedro or Koufax type run .
No Tom Seaver, Sandy Kofax or Steve Carlton? Gimmie a break.
of that kit kat bar?
@@sportspotlight6722 No; really. It's more a reflection on you.
No Lefty Grove or Tom Seaver is absolutely crazy.
It's hard to make a top 10 list because there's been SO many spectacular pitchers. A lot of people have been commenting about Nolan Ryan, I'd add Sandy Koufax and Cy Young as almost certainly making my top 10. Bob Feller and Satchel Paige, plus *controversially* Roger Clemons are good additions too
Agreed it is very hard as time goes on and more great players pop up. Like this list does not have Ohtani on it and lets be real he is already top 15 on his way to top 5 not on this list but all time
@@sportspotlight6722 At that point Babe Ruth might as well be on the list I feel like
I have a video for Top 20 players all time and he is there@@Rspknlikeab0ssxd
Koufax was and is the greatest pitcher ever. Hands down.
@@Gnofg I think so too, for my all star team I'd have him [Koufax] pitch as first or second string along with Babe Ruth (who could DH and pitch)
No Nolan!!! No Satchel??
Nolan Ryan doesn’t exist?
Great choice to exclude Nolan Ryan. Ryan (112 ERA+/Avg season 14-12/2 post season victories/0 cy young awards) is nowhere near top 10 . Fanbois try to put him there for some reasons. There are at least 50 pitchers in MLB history you'd rather have a game start if your life depended on it than Ryan. In fact Ryan never had a signature win or performance in a game that mattered.
How could you leave out Nolan Ryan??? Best pitcher ever!!! How about Koufax???
That’s what’s wrong with these top 10 lists: some deserving people are left off & some questionable people are put on!…..either way; it’s fucked up!
Cos Ryan was great but he lost a lot of games
@@alansnow1129 everyone that won lots of games also lost a lot of games!
@@alansnow1129 112 ERA+ is barely better than the average pitcher! 2,795 Walks, a large 1.25 WHIP, 321 HRs given up, a low .526 Win Pct., with his 292 Losses. He was no Walter Johnson with 279 Losses but far more wins at 417, and his 1.06 WHIP was sensational, as was his MLB leading 110 ShO; large 147 ERA+ dwarfs Ryan's by a huge margin, etc.
@@freeguy77 There is nothing so ugly as the death of a beautiful Idea at the hands of an ugly fact.--Thomas Huxley
Can anyone explain why Nolan isn't on the list?
None that can pass the giggle test!
WHERE IN THE HOLY HELL IS NOLAN RYAN? THE FUCK?????
He is a second tier HOF pitcher. I rank him 70th best of all time without apology but a ton of evidence for that ratings
@@JosephEshleman Ya. No.....go watch baseball man.
I would have found a spot for the chairman of the board
You know what. Great idea
yeah I think may have forgot about Nolan
I would have Maddux at 4
Where are Cy Young, Nolan Ryan and Sandy Koufax?
in the HOF?
Maddox is the reason we have a strike zone box in today's game .
Maddux is on my top 5 of all time starters. Not only did he have one of the lowest E.R.A's to innings pitched, not only least amount of walks, but 18 gold gloves.Best ever as a fielding pitcher,a little more cat like speed than Kaat.
I'd take Koufax.
I was hoping I wasn't the only one that noticed that. See my comment above, unless the s-banning TH-cam b*sta*ds hid it from everyone.
As I said in a previous post you need a pre and post WW2
Pre
W Johnson
Cy Young
Mathewson
G Alexander
L Grove
Post
R Johnson
Gibson
Koufax
Maddux
Seaver
A top ten without Koufax or Ryan is a sin .
Koufax was on purpose but Ryan can be passed on his ERA and batters based is too high for a top 10
no it shows you that the guy knows what he is talking about.
Putting Kershaw on this list and leaving out Cy Young and Nolan Ryan is an absolute embarrassment
.
Nolan had too many walks to be on here
The only embarrasment is thinking Clayton Kershaw is not head and shoulders better than NOlan Ryan. And lots of top ten lists leave off 19th century pitchers.
I feel you're missing some of the best. Like Cy Young and Koufax. Also Pedro Martinez should be a bit higher, maybe not #1 but he hold the best season ever by era+ and did it during Barry Bonds' peak years
hmmmm, not bad.......but where is Cy Young???? Why is that the prestigious award, but he's not included?
I mean lets be honest how many trophies do we hand out with the name of a player who is no longer as good as the people winning it?
Nolan Ryan??? Cy Young??? Hello ???
Where's Nolan Ryan ??? Ryan's the GOAT man ! Also where's Cy Young ? You know the guy who has the most important pithching award named after him ??
Cy Young missing from this list makes no sense...
I would almost, almost, put Nolan Ryan over Clemens, but I'm bias since I'm a Yankee fan.
Tom Seaver
Maddux won more golden gloves than any player ever, at any position. His fastball was among the slowest in the league so thinking he was using steroids is hilarious.
You've got to be kidding? No Sandy Koufax. Best pitcher I ever saw. Same with anyone that faced him.
Koufax averaged a shutout out every 7.9 starts. Gibson and Marichal close behind at 8.6 and 8.8, respectively.
Also how Walter Johnson he’s probably like 9th of all time
You kidding, #1 easy
Cool. Pedro made #6. The thing about the top 10 is that any of these guys can make a top 3 argument. Blown away by this group.
Yes to all but Ryan, Perry, Niekro and Glavine
so a whole new list or what
The guys on this list are all right just they’re all in the wrong spots. Mariano Rivera might not get into the top ten, #2 is absolutely insane. Pedro Martinez is easily top 3 all time and Greg Maddux is top 5. Walter Johnson deserves a mention and possibly top ten, but not top five. Overall this is a decent list needs some work tho
Every list needs work. Thats the beauty of it. as time goes on they all need fixed
Another list that does not have Lefty Grove, the most under-rated super star in MLB history. Hubbell had two ERA titles ; Grove had nine. Grove had 113.3 WAR for his career more than most any of these guys. Johnson is number one, but Grove, not anybody else is number two
Where is Nolan Ryan with his 8 no hitters. There is also Tom Seaver and the man who started for Cy Young award Cy Young
Aint no way matheson was better than pedro. Those old guys hav all those wins cuz they started 75+ games a year
Any list without Koufax and Ryan is bogus.
No Nolan Ryan?
Why are you assuming the pitchers in the late 80s and 90s weren’t also taking PEDs?
I’m sure Paul Skenes will be the GPOAT. Greatest pitcher of all time.
Do not give us any crazy ideas now
How Tom Seaver, Sandy Koufax and Steve Carlton aren’t on this list is astounding. A gross oversight. Roger Clemons doesn’t belong here because of his steroid use.
This list shouldn’t include players from the Civil War era 😂
Nolan Ryan is not one of the top 10 pitchers in MLB history. At his best he was great, with 7 no-hitters, and of course he leads in career strikeouts. But he also had 8 losing seasons, and lost nearly 300 games in his career, with just a .526 career winning percentage. A great pitcher, but not top 10 all time.
Speaking the truth.
Ryan was Phenomenal. Watch 1969 Mets, 73 Mets, and 78 Astros and Get Back to Us when you're informed on a guy throwing 7 Nos. Please.
@@nickschuyler Ryan was phenomenal, just not top ten all time.
7:15... absolutely NOT!
The league was limited with only one ethnicity allowed to play in the league. This dude's career should have an asterisk beside it because of that.
Koufax was the Beatles of MLB pitching!!!
beatles are not top 10 here either
You should have titled it my favorite ten pitchers. No reliever should be on this list. Make a separate list for relievers. It is amazing how social media has given everyone a platform.
If Nolan Ryan isn't on your list you don't understand the game of baseball
Oh so you mean an ERA of 3.2 and walking half a roster every other game right.....
I love Randy Johnson
Great player and only a bird disagrees.
@@sportspotlight6722 is that because he did not get first base on the HBP
Forget where is Nolan Ryan, how about Tom Seaver????
Cy Young, Lefty Grove and Kid Nichols should be on that list.. Check the stats.. Sandy Koufax no slouch either.. Satchel Paige..? I'd take Verlander over Kershaw too for honorable mention.. I mean the reality is, Eddie Feigner would put all these guys in the dust doing it with bigger balls and only four guys.. haha At least you got Walter Johnson right and the other guys are all good too tho some debate about top ten..
Yea for the 1800s Kid Nichols Old Hoss Radbourn and Pud Galvin
Where are Koufax and Seaver?
retired
Solid picks, but no Nolan Ryan????
Hmmmm
I see some people disagreeing with the video, kinda new to baseball more of a basketball fan, can someone explain why Nolan Ryan being left off the list is controversial?
Records for most strikeouts and no hitters. Besides that he was a workhorse that pitched a record 27 seasons, 1 of 5 pitchers who have more strikeouts than innings pitched, and his career batting average against is .204 which is the lowest for a starting pitchers career. However he did have some control issues which is why he is also the career leader in walks.
@@jacjr6193 112 ERA+ is nothing to consider being Top 10, nor his 2,795 Walks, 321 HRs given up, 3.19 ERA, 292 Losses, etc. Barely over an average pitcher with his 112 ERA+, almost 300 Losses, almost 2,800 Walks, etc. I wuld not put him in any key game I had to win! W. Johnson, C. Mathewson, Pete Alexander, Bob Gibson, or Lefty Grove would be my Starting 5 as the most competitive, best one-game-to-win pitchers! And if I had to have a 6th, it would be Greg Maddux. The guy was unbelievable! Low Walk %, (similar to Mathewson), an excellent W-L % (.610), a terrific 132 ERA+ (beats Kourfax at 131), and a 1.14 WHIP. Also beats Koufax on HR/9 with his 0.6 / 9; Koufax 0.8 / 9. Koufax only pitched 6 good years of his 12, and only his final 4 were considered outstanding. So, not all his own fault, but he wasted half his career trying to learn how to pitch. Maddux was wonderful by his 3rd year, pitching 23 years. Longevity has to count more than only 4 outstanding years as Koufax had (1963-66). And 5,008 IP for Maddux is far superior to K-man's 2,324.
@@freeguy77 nice 5. Here’s mine without copying any of your guys. Sandy Koufax, Pedro Martinez, Randy Johnson, Greg Maddux, and Curt Schilling assuming this is do or die, win or go home, etc.
Because people do not like their favorite player being left out and they ignore all the stats overall