And there is the problem with late stage and unregulated capitalism. Greed, manipulation of markets, excess CEO and executives pay, no value to the workers. There will always be another less developed nation with cheap, exploitable labor and they’ll just move manufacturing there., leaving workers with no income , no healthcare (in the USA)and hard times. The USA is experiencing the downturn like the 1970’s UK. Meanwhile politicians distract so many with stupid culture wars (just read some of the comments here) so we let them and corporatists steal our future. Lovely scenery btw!
What you're referring to is corporatism, not capitalism. It's like saying communism and socialism are the same. In reality, socialism and capitalism have more in common with each other. Nice try though. We'll get 'em next time.
I’m getting ready to outfit a Suzuki V Strom with luggage and use the motorcycle more often or as much as possible because if my Truck dies on me, I don’t think I can afford to purchase another truck. It’s always possible that if people need to rely on a motorcycle for their basic transportation, it could increase sales but these motorcycles need to be basic, reliable and fuel efficient. Right now, motorcycles are considered luxury items in America.
The importation of goods and services results in the exportation of a country's wealth. And, of course the opposite is true. Unfortunately UK politics has always been more about the distribution of wealth than the creation of it. The loss of manufacturing in this country has set the UK on a downward slope that cannot be reversed by any political theory or party. While it would be easy to blame Wilson, Heath, Thatcher, Major, Blair, Cameron and Johnson, the real fault is with the politics that they all play. They all go to the same schools and are in effect the same people. I don't don't hold out any hope that the 'Starmer gang' will even begin to bring about the changes that are required. These, sometimes well meaning clowns, are only in power through the national ignorance of the electorate who are so easily led down propagandas blind alleys. We don't need left wing government or right wing government: what we need is good government.
We are not governed by the will of the people, nor the will of government (of any colour).We are governed by and for the benefit of, established wealth and its lobbyists. The only things we "produce" are fees and commisssions, in "service" industries, serving each other, metaphorically cleaning each other's windows. Napoleon was right with his "nation of shopkeepers".
That's wrong. UK politics has never been about the distribution of wealth, that's our problem. It's about prontectionism, the very rich ring fencing their positions. And these very rich affect us all when they move their money, which they do regularly, and it's always a negative result for the average worker. By rich l mean a person with 100's of millions or billions to move and affect markets. We lose sight of what is "rich" and pursue pointless tax raids to squeeze the middle class when all the UK has to do is to implement a "social" tax on the very rich.
Some people seem to be in favour of trade tariffs against the Chinese’ but who will that help? Not us - the customer. All the big names are now making their products wherever the costs are lowest. I must say i am not over bothered whether my imported motorcycle comes from Germany, Japan, China, India or wherever, so long as it is value for money.
Reliable,basic largely electronic free bikes and indeed cars are what is needed. Easy to service by dealers or the owner,therefore cheaper to run. Ah we can all dream!!
@@nosek1dNo because even the 350 Enfield , has unnecessary tech like fuel injection & associated gubbins plus strangled by cat & other EU directed bollox , making the purchasing & servicing be it by dealer or home mechanic, more difficult & expensive ,than it need be . We need to get back to carburettors & simple electrics, plus easy to source generic parts, & bikes that are less hassle & easier for the shop or home mechanic , to get their spanner’s into
@@nosek1d No just more like what a proper motorcycle should be , less tech crap , the less to potentially go wrong & the less hassle & expense . Anyway that’s what a motorcycle is , a bicycle with an engine , the clues in the word cycle , in the title motorCYCLE .
I think you’re 100% correct sir. Can you imagine what the men would think that stormed the beaches of Normandy? They gave their lives so people could be concerned about their pronouns and hurt feelings and safe spaces breaks my heart.
It's history repeating itself; the whole British motorcycle industry went broke, Guzzi, MV, Ducati and others broke and bought out multiple times, HD with the bowling alley manufacturer and now it seems in trouble again. The various CEOs appear to live in bubbles with no inkling of what happens outside. What ires me most, is the debts they are permitted to accrue, reputedly $300billion for KTM. Why do the banks and other institutions provide such funds? At the end of the day, it's us, the retail customers who pick up the tabs with our 38% overdrafts and credit cards. I remember the days when overdrafts were 2 1/2% above base!!
It seems to be very expensive to insure a new bike now vs a 10 year old bike and nothing has really changed with the bikes themselves. 2014 bike £47 vs £600+ equivalent new bike.
Bike manufacturers need to design bikes to be economical to service and repair and to allow insurance costs to be lower. Modern bikes have become obscenely expensive in all respects.
My local BMW dealership seems to be doing very well focusing much towards used BMW bikes. For around 10k you can typically pick up a serious amount of bike with a 2 year manufacturer backed warranty etc. I’m sure they will survive, as the market changes and fewer can afford the newer 20k models focusing on more affordable good quality used bikes makes sense. Thanks Dave 👍
Interesting and I fear correct observations. I have wondered recently why the European makers of big bikes haven’t perhaps started to look at the smaller capacity market, Triumph with their 400s have taken this first step. As you mention, why spend obscene sums on a huge adventure bike, when there are reliable, much cheaper alternatives available? It’s easy to enjoy riding on an affordable (and reliable!) bike, I suspect the market, we customers, are adjusting to this as our disposable incomes become tighter. The sub 10k market now has some wonderful and capable bikes to offer.
I think you are right, but can't help but wonder, if we, the relatively affluent western customer have encouraged this over the decades, in the desire for bigger, better, faster?
Because the pub bravado is all about big horsepower and speed , not that you can use any of it on the roads in Britain anymore. The thing is manufactures are not focusing on the smaller end of the market enough and anything less than 160bhp is not seen as cool. Hopefully attitudes will change but we need the right bikes on offer to tempt people away from £15,000 machines and 160bhp as most riders can't afford them anyway.
@@tonychettleburgh8953 precisely, the popularity of the under powered, though easy and fun to ride 350 Enfields has proven. A new reliable bike for between 3-4k that’s cheap to insure and economical.
Ktm duke 790 £6700, cf moto NK 800 £6000, both with 4 years warranty but the NK comes with £1000s extra worth of technology what KTM will upsell you on..its a no brainer in my eyes.
@@johnmcguigan5755 It used to be called living on the never never and was ridiculed. The banksters have done another con job to brainwash Joe Public into screwing himself to fatted their profits.
Expanding luxury items and increasing producton will hit their limits eventually. Let's hope Royal Enfield will not make this mistake. The doctrine extra features is mandatory kills European and American industry IMO. For this reason there is limited budget EV cars available while we need them the most to save the electrical grid from collapsing. Heck I used to love aircooled Ducati but those spaceships available now is over the top! We both know the J350 engine is worth living but so many complain 20hp is too little to work with but the majority complaining never experienced this. Even friends don't realise the hp/weight ratio is similar like a small car. RE shouldn't be a luxury or competitive brand ever IMO this is where Triumph could fail as well despite offering a smaller single now. I'd chose a Guerilla over it any day. And to be honest... 100k on a J350 before one needs a revision of the engine is quite an achievement for a single. Love my RedChrome but fancied the Halcyon Grey when it was already not available over here 😉. Could buy 3 bikes for the price of one luxury brand and be more happy!
Wise reflections indeed and a fantastic ride through the wet country roads. I’m in the process of trading a sports bike with BMW for a demo R12 nine T and it’s clear they are struggling to sell this new model at the original price point. Their bikes are amazing but the future of motorbikes is from the east (ex Japan potentially) and although I’ve enjoyed my Japanese and European bikes, I look forward to any future as long as there are motorbikes. I’ve always enjoyed riding bikes and can remember a time when the ages of bike riders was broad whereas now it is pretty much all older guys with no hair…. If it takes a move to Chinese manufactures to break this ridiculous over pricing then let it begin now. It would also help if western governments supported more motorbike usage rather than penalise them (see the recent comments regarding bikes using bus lanes). Anyhoo, it’s a filthy day here in London but I’m going to put the waterproofs on, wait for the strong winds to drop and then go for a ride in the wet and cloudy conditions. All inspired by watching this video. Thanks
Great to see someone riding in the wet. I live in Alice Springs. I now have a 125cc PCX. The predominant bikes being ridden here on a daily basis are 125cc. Quite a few expensive large capacity in this town, but most likely 2 wheelers you see are electric scooters, bicycles or 125cc.
I think the next manufacturer to fail will be Norton, they sell very few bikes and they are making a loss. At some point, their Indian masters may think that it is not worth continuing with a busted flush. Triumph need to be careful as well.
I do worry about BMW, I have had quite a few, I like them but they currently make nothing that appeals except the new R23 s in orange, but the reality is that I can’t afford any. I bought a new K100RS in about 1985 for $4 Aus this was about a months salary at that time. A new R80 before that was about $3 k new. A new version , say the R12s is about $28 k Aus so that’s more than 6 months income today. So is the new bike 5 to 6 times better than the old one. The reality is they are simply far too expensive to buy, service and maintain. So I’ll stick with my $10 k bikes and a couple of old bangers. So if BMW is to fail it’s because they can’t seem to build bikes that are affordable. Who and what’s to blame? I wish I knew.
BMW could sell as many bog standard 650 boxers as they could make, for the retro market. Whether the western economic manufacturing model could turn a profit on them, is another question.
The new fleet I have suits my needs better. The VFR1200X had an amazing engine but Honda cut corners on the suspension and brakes. It was nearly a keeper but simply too heavy and barge like for my local twisty road riding. I did enjoy the power 😬
Thanks Dave. In the UK, if the government were brave enough and had a moment of self-reflection, they might see motorcycling as a valid mode of sustainable transport. Embrace it. Take every opportunity to make it more affordable and accessible. Engage in consultation with necessary parties and push quickly to overhaul the costly and overcomplicated route to a motorcycle licence. Relax the overzealous net-zero objectives where applicable to motorcycles. Then, let the market decide. But as my late Father used to say, "You're living in cloud cuckoo land - Son" 😊
It’s seems like KTM expanded during covid to meet unprecedented demand of their motorcycles…thinking it was the new normal. Now that normality has returned and coupled with inflation and interest rates they have 100,000 unsold bikes. Looks like they should survive with restructuring and sadly job losses.
No government in my time has been pro motorcycle and that's the real problem no advertising on TVs or other media platforms and motorcycles are always portrayed in a negative way. In fact with the so called climate emergency we should be embracing the humble motorcycle as a main form of commuting as they are far more economical to run than the mass of SUVs you see with only 1 occupant. My daily commute is a cluster of congested roads and the vast majority are single occupants. It's also got to be said that motorcycle costs are way too high these days and the thought of some horrible scrote taking it is off putting to say the least. I find the current trend sad as I have been a motorcycle rider since I was old enough to do and absolutely love it but we are being phased out by health and safety and lack of support from the government. Safe riding all and hopefully all got through the recent storm without much trouble, my MK1 bandit handled it well even the lakes that had appeared 😂😂😂
I feel if I got an injury from a motorcycle accident now I would be screwed financially. I need an operation on the NHS and they won't even refer me. I would be glad to join the 7 million on the waiting list. I can't even get on it.
For me the writing was on the wall when Kawasaki could not produce and sell the W800 cheap enough to compete with the other far eastern manufactures who have much lower overheads and labour costs. They then made the decision to pull the W800 from the UK market. This should have been a wake up call for all mainstream manufacturers. There are interesting times ahead in all areas and not just the motorcycle industry. Oh boy! Cheers: BJ
@@creigmacc Still sell them in mainland Europe also so I doubt it is an emissions issue. They couldn't sell enough of them at the price point they needed.
I don't think they will as a result of their rear shaft problem, because of the way they fessed up unlike KTM who handled their cam/design problem like it is the 1970's. Ducati had a valve problem but it's hard to remember because they handled it without detriment to their reputation.
the so called Premium Brands will suffer such as HD, BMW , Triumph . simply because over teching their bikes lack of parts availability and then the cost of repairs /servicing . the competition also has a huge affect especially pricing and design look at Triumphs laughable attempt with the Elvis Bonneville £2000 more than the standard bike , With CFM ,Royal Enfield producing affordable very capable well built and designed bikes who needs the self proclaimed premium brands , yes i see more dealers going at least two more brands disappearing before the end of 2025 .
Not sure what’s it like out of Australia, but BMW’s support in Australia has been superb when I owned one. Historically, they’ve always had long warranties- so if there was any long term problems with BMW, they would have gone broke by now. Remember it’s a smaller division of a much larger car company, so, unlike KTM, they aren’t going under. I wouldn’t hesitate to recommend BMW to other buyers. 5 years roadside assistance- so again, if it was costing BMW money due to unreliability, they would be broke by now. Undoubtably there’s a small group of people which have had shit luck, and will justifiably complain about it - but they’ll also shout the loudest when something goes wrong, which in some cases like BMW, will give a perception that it’s an unreliable brand.
Morning Dave . Enjoyed my ride through the Yorkshire countryside, albeit a bit wet and overcast.... the visual was juxtaposed with a narration of calamitas and far reaching events......greeting from a sunny but windy España
I wholy concur. The unprincipled drive to achieve profit at any cost arrives at the enivitable situation where we find yourselves today. The antics of our political class at the behest of their masters (corporate funded political parties et.al.) was destined to overextend itself. Without principles and a determination to pursue higher ideals, we will follow the path of all empires. Greed, division and arrogance has it's consequences. Keep at it Dave. I value your poetic lilt and words of wisdom coming from an apparently compassionate soul.
Interesting Vid . I have owned and ridden many motorcycles in the last 50 years. I am happy to be corrected but I cannot remember KTM ever being a major player in the mainstream motorcyle industry maybe worth a look at who owns that company Take care my freind
Trade wars in the form of tariffs are self-defeating. There are no winners. The question is: How can we better compete with developing nations whose product quality is on the up-swing at a price that undercuts domestic sources with spotty reliability records. To start, we need to reign in executive compensation. The Tesla board wants to award Musk a $56 billion with a B dollar performance award as if he is God almighty creating everything in the universe, single-handedly. That is money that could be used to reduce prices, provide affordable healthcare for the people performing the work, put into quality control as well as research and development to eliminate our reliance on oil. Imagine if we reduced our dependence on oil, regardless of the source. To make matters worse here (USA), Musk is acting as an advisor to a serial business failure in our White House whose only dubious claim to success is licensing self-promotion products made in those places he targets for demogoguery. And of course, our conservatives do get their panties in a twist over others sexual identity as if that is a crucially important consideration for casting a vote.
Many events may be plausible but what's the probability? Buy your shares, if possible, in cfmoto Dave, this time next year we'll be millionaires Rodney.
I think you could be right, bmw was due to release November the R1300RT R & RS ... has been put back to spring 2025 .... most of them now are 22k plus my local dealer in Shipley. There are only a few new bikes it's 75% second hand bikes.
If we take a lot of these comments as being an accurate representation of what motorcyclists think and want things should work out ok.... looking at other videos and media there will soon be a vast selection of low technology, high quality, bikes available in brand new condition with fantastic spares back up and unending repair knowledge all at bargain prices....just don't buy a old classic bike for its investment performance! .. you can even choose the level of tech from, well, none through to 12V electrics and the odd disc brake. I've no doubt you could use a lot of them as daily transport especially the later ones with better brakes or learn to brake sooner! They'd defo be ok for pleasure riding but do need fiddling with fairly often compared to modern stuff... but if that's what you said you wanted.... Allegedly the British bike industry did listen to what riders wanted back in the day resulting in the Ariel Leader which was very advanced for its time - no one bought it
Approx 90,000 people visited Motorcycle Live 2024. That appears to be a market in anyone's book?. Theres too many bike dealers today, looking for the fast buck. In the 80,s my local dealer predicted that bike dealers would become as scarce as gun shops. Let's see less dealers with better service !,,
Purse stings are going to have to be tightened by VAG. Let’s hope Ducati weathers the storm. BMW has enough of a fan base with more money than ………. . They’ll just play with the PCP figures for future sales. Prices will come down out of Europe. Honda and Suzuki are re-aligning their prices on the newer products. Prices are being ‘Reset’ and they need to be. Great vid as always mate.
Hi vfr mitch how does this modern enfield and twin word compare with the old Vfr word. I have had honda vf n vfrs from about 1984. Im biased my 2000 vfr still with me!
Another good video mate. Make you wonder what's going to happen next year. My thoughts is not buying anything next year just because i don't know what is going to happen. Bulgaria is on the black sea coast, i can ride in to Ukraine on my bike if i want. Plus Eastern European countries are changing there borders to protect them selfs of what may happen,not good or makes yo feel good.
Cheers Ian and I’ve just heard that Vertu BMW have closed a branch here in the uk (albeit cars) worrying signs. Be interesting to see if the Ukraine situation gets “negotiated”. Hope you’re okay pal 👍🏻
How much do you want to pay for a motorbike? If it is as little as possible, then you have many options. Would you be prepared to pay more if we added high tariffs on imports to give British builders a price band to make a profit and bring back the "Made in Britain" badge? Our wallets and purses dictate the market ebbs and flows. As others have said here and in other places "We only have ourselves to blame"
It's not a case of being prepared to spend more on local goods. I simply haven't got the money, so I either have to buy as cheap as I can or I don't buy anything at all... if I had the income in the first place then I'd buy more expensive, local goods every time!
BMW their bikes which have been assembled in Germany using 80% of Chinese parts why do you think it takes so long to get any spare parts, it is a long way to China. They expect riders to put up with bikes, most of which cost over 20k, that break down they do not even offer a replacement bike, unlike most Japanese makers they just expect the customer to sit at home and wait for the bike to be repaired. They advise riders of adventure bikes not to get them wet as the relays burn out it also happens when caught out in a rain storm, they tell riders to secure their expensive panniers with bungee cords as the locks fail their top of the range sports bike has a tendency to blow up on track days when pushed hard something they were supposed to be able to do. All so they can make huge profits and pay their shareholders and staff a big bonus.
True lol ! Whilst what BW said is correct the guy killed yesterday by a falling tree would have wasted his time worrying about global issues he couldn’t understand let alone change .
I definitely am not saying that Donald Trump equals Jesus, but could you imagine if Kamala Harris had won the election food for thought I shut her to think!
If we put tariffs on Chinese imports it would stop 0.1 of their income and absolutely destroy most of our businesses because our prices would shoot through the roof and no-one would be able to afford anything. Tariffs mainly hurt countries that set them! Instead of governments throwing money away in useless ventures, they need to help the individual. Maybe provide solar panels to every household and reduce taxes on local goods. Give the normal people more money and better opportunities to buy local and that kickstarts the economy and THAT is what we need.
Hi Dave, I'm going to wax my $60,000 Ford F-250, make room in the 4 car garage for my $35,000 Harley Davidson, crank up the heat on my $20,000 geothermal system, turn on my $10,000 home theatre system, and check Facebook on my $1000 iPhone. I've got a hard day ahead tomorrow, doing some landscaping on my 20 acres with my $30,000 Kubota. I'm so glad that I voted for somebody who wants to tear down this system of government; I put in an honest day's work every day, and if somebody in some other country needs to do twice as much work to feed his family for one single day, that's his fault. He doesn't worry me at all because his skin is a slightly different color. Hey, I'm White, so the system of government doesn't have anything to do with my success! Isn't that right? Isn't that right?
@@Paul-kp1tu I did leave that a bit open-ended, Paul. None of that's true for me, except that since I'm Irish, I'm almost White. I was making the point that it's funny and absurd that I hear people here in the US with that level of wealth yammering things like, "We can't put up with this any longer, something's gotta change!"
@@FGRides well then I agree , there is an absurd gap between those with and those without. Irish, eh, well I apologise and as an Aussie with Irish background I’m surprised for not getting your sarcasm quicker.
G’day mate, I recon these videos on your view of life are ridgy didge, you seem to have a way of putting my thoughts into words that make sense. Great footage on the ride as well. I wonder if Mr.Carville would turn his words around in a quote today & say …It’s the stupid economy 🙈🙄🤣🤣🤣. Hooroo for now 👍🏍😁
And there is the problem with late stage and unregulated capitalism. Greed, manipulation of markets, excess CEO and executives pay, no value to the workers. There will always be another less developed nation with cheap, exploitable labor and they’ll just move manufacturing there., leaving workers with no income , no healthcare (in the USA)and hard times. The USA is experiencing the downturn like the 1970’s UK. Meanwhile politicians distract so many with stupid culture wars (just read some of the comments here) so we let them and corporatists steal our future. Lovely scenery btw!
THIS!!
100%
We’ve never had unregulated capitalism. We’ve never tried capitalism, we have a mixed economy.
😊
What you're referring to is corporatism, not capitalism. It's like saying communism and socialism are the same. In reality, socialism and capitalism have more in common with each other.
Nice try though. We'll get 'em next time.
I’m getting ready to outfit a Suzuki V Strom with luggage and use the motorcycle more often or as much as possible because if my Truck dies on me, I don’t think I can afford to purchase another truck. It’s always possible that if people need to rely on a motorcycle for their basic transportation, it could increase sales but these motorcycles need to be basic, reliable and fuel efficient. Right now, motorcycles are considered luxury items in America.
The importation of goods and services results in the exportation of a country's wealth. And, of course the opposite is true. Unfortunately UK politics has always been more about the distribution of wealth than the creation of it. The loss of manufacturing in this country has set the UK on a downward slope that cannot be reversed by any political theory or party. While it would be easy to blame Wilson, Heath, Thatcher, Major, Blair, Cameron and Johnson, the real fault is with the politics that they all play. They all go to the same schools and are in effect the same people. I don't don't hold out any hope that the 'Starmer gang' will even begin to bring about the changes that are required. These, sometimes well meaning clowns, are only in power through the national ignorance of the electorate who are so easily led down propagandas blind alleys. We don't need left wing government or right wing government: what we need is good government.
Great comments. 😊
We are not governed by the will of the people, nor the will of government (of any colour).We are governed by and for the benefit of, established wealth and its lobbyists. The only things we "produce" are fees and commisssions, in "service" industries, serving each other, metaphorically cleaning each other's windows. Napoleon was right with his "nation of shopkeepers".
@brockett: I love that last sentence....absolutely!
Spot on
That's wrong. UK politics has never been about the distribution of wealth, that's our problem. It's about prontectionism, the very rich ring fencing their positions. And these very rich affect us all when they move their money, which they do regularly, and it's always a negative result for the average worker. By rich l mean a person with 100's of millions or billions to move and affect markets.
We lose sight of what is "rich" and pursue pointless tax raids to squeeze the middle class when all the UK has to do is to implement a "social" tax on the very rich.
Some people seem to be in favour of trade tariffs against the Chinese’ but who will that help? Not us - the customer. All the big names are now making their products wherever the costs are lowest. I must say i am not over bothered whether my imported motorcycle comes from Germany, Japan, China, India or wherever, so long as it is value for money.
Reliable,basic largely electronic free bikes and indeed cars are what is needed.
Easy to service by dealers or the owner,therefore cheaper to run.
Ah we can all dream!!
Sounds like a 350 Enfield then?
@@nosek1dNo because even the 350 Enfield , has unnecessary tech like fuel injection & associated gubbins plus strangled by cat & other EU directed bollox , making the purchasing & servicing be it by dealer or home mechanic, more difficult & expensive ,than it need be . We need to get back to carburettors & simple electrics, plus easy to source generic parts, & bikes that are less hassle & easier for the shop or home mechanic , to get their spanner’s into
👍
@@maskedavenger2578 Your revised specification looks very much like a bicycle?
@@nosek1d No just more like what a proper motorcycle should be , less tech crap , the less to potentially go wrong & the less hassle & expense . Anyway that’s what a motorcycle is , a bicycle with an engine , the clues in the word cycle , in the title motorCYCLE .
I think you’re 100% correct sir. Can you imagine what the men would think that stormed the beaches of Normandy? They gave their lives so people could be concerned about their pronouns and hurt feelings and safe spaces breaks my heart.
And for the Islamic invasion
It's history repeating itself; the whole British motorcycle industry went broke, Guzzi, MV, Ducati and others broke and bought out multiple times, HD with the bowling alley manufacturer and now it seems in trouble again. The various CEOs appear to live in bubbles with no inkling of what happens outside. What ires me most, is the debts they are permitted to accrue, reputedly $300billion for KTM. Why do the banks and other institutions provide such funds? At the end of the day, it's us, the retail customers who pick up the tabs with our 38% overdrafts and credit cards. I remember the days when overdrafts were 2 1/2% above base!!
300 billion, you sure about that😂
The un regulated rise in cost of insurance is also stopping many from buying new pricy bikes
It seems to be very expensive to insure a new bike now vs a 10 year old bike and nothing has really changed with the bikes themselves. 2014 bike £47 vs £600+ equivalent new bike.
Bike manufacturers need to design bikes to be economical to service and repair and to allow insurance costs to be lower. Modern bikes have become obscenely expensive in all respects.
My local BMW dealership seems to be doing very well focusing much towards used BMW bikes. For around 10k you can typically pick up a serious amount of bike with a 2 year manufacturer backed warranty etc. I’m sure they will survive, as the market changes and fewer can afford the newer 20k models focusing on more affordable good quality used bikes makes sense. Thanks Dave 👍
But what do they sell in 2 years time when nobody is buying the 20k bikes with £....k of options today
And so the relentless progress of mankind continues.
Interesting and I fear correct observations. I have wondered recently why the European makers of big bikes haven’t perhaps started to look at the smaller capacity market, Triumph with their 400s have taken this first step. As you mention, why spend obscene sums on a huge adventure bike, when there are reliable, much cheaper alternatives available? It’s easy to enjoy riding on an affordable (and reliable!) bike, I suspect the market, we customers, are adjusting to this as our disposable incomes become tighter. The sub 10k market now has some wonderful and capable bikes to offer.
I think you are right, but can't help but wonder, if we, the relatively affluent western customer have encouraged this over the decades, in the desire for bigger, better, faster?
Because the pub bravado is all about big horsepower and speed , not that you can use any of it on the roads in Britain anymore. The thing is manufactures are not focusing on the smaller end of the market enough and anything less than 160bhp is not seen as cool. Hopefully attitudes will change but we need the right bikes on offer to tempt people away from £15,000 machines and 160bhp as most riders can't afford them anyway.
@@lauriebloggs8391 absolutely!
@@tonychettleburgh8953 precisely, the popularity of the under powered, though easy and fun to ride 350 Enfields has proven. A new reliable bike for between 3-4k that’s cheap to insure and economical.
Ktm duke 790 £6700, cf moto NK 800 £6000, both with 4 years warranty but the NK comes with £1000s extra worth of technology what KTM will upsell you on..its a no brainer in my eyes.
Personally, I blame pcp and the likes, people buying things they could never afford, if you have £5k buy a bike at £5k not £20k
Yea, agree. It’s contributed to the ridiculous prices of these bikes nowadays, it’s got completely out of whack.
@@johnmcguigan5755 It used to be called living on the never never and was ridiculed. The banksters have done another con job to brainwash Joe Public into screwing himself to fatted their profits.
What a well written article and totally correct from what i can see.
Very true words I was around and riding one of the last bsa A65L in 72 never thinking bsa triumph would collapse and disappear but they did
Expanding luxury items and increasing producton will hit their limits eventually. Let's hope Royal Enfield will not make this mistake. The doctrine extra features is mandatory kills European and American industry IMO. For this reason there is limited budget EV cars available while we need them the most to save the electrical grid from collapsing.
Heck I used to love aircooled Ducati but those spaceships available now is over the top!
We both know the J350 engine is worth living but so many complain 20hp is too little to work with but the majority complaining never experienced this. Even friends don't realise the hp/weight ratio is similar like a small car.
RE shouldn't be a luxury or competitive brand ever IMO this is where Triumph could fail as well despite offering a smaller single now. I'd chose a Guerilla over it any day.
And to be honest... 100k on a J350 before one needs a revision of the engine is quite an achievement for a single.
Love my RedChrome but fancied the Halcyon Grey when it was already not available over here 😉.
Could buy 3 bikes for the price of one luxury brand and be more happy!
Wise reflections indeed and a fantastic ride through the wet country roads. I’m in the process of trading a sports bike with BMW for a demo R12 nine T and it’s clear they are struggling to sell this new model at the original price point. Their bikes are amazing but the future of motorbikes is from the east (ex Japan potentially) and although I’ve enjoyed my Japanese and European bikes, I look forward to any future as long as there are motorbikes. I’ve always enjoyed riding bikes and can remember a time when the ages of bike riders was broad whereas now it is pretty much all older guys with no hair…. If it takes a move to Chinese manufactures to break this ridiculous over pricing then let it begin now. It would also help if western governments supported more motorbike usage rather than penalise them (see the recent comments regarding bikes using bus lanes). Anyhoo, it’s a filthy day here in London but I’m going to put the waterproofs on, wait for the strong winds to drop and then go for a ride in the wet and cloudy conditions. All inspired by watching this video. Thanks
😊
Great to see someone riding in the wet. I live in Alice Springs. I now have a 125cc PCX. The predominant bikes being ridden here on a daily basis are 125cc. Quite a few expensive large capacity in this town, but most likely 2 wheelers you see are electric scooters, bicycles or 125cc.
politics apart, what us bikers need are cheap stylish motorcycles that last and are very reliable.
I think the next manufacturer to fail will be Norton, they sell very few bikes and they are making a loss. At some point, their Indian masters may think that it is not worth continuing with a busted flush. Triumph need to be careful as well.
I do worry about BMW, I have had quite a few, I like them but they currently make nothing that appeals except the new R23 s in orange, but the reality is that I can’t afford any.
I bought a new K100RS in about 1985 for $4 Aus this was about a months salary at that time. A new R80 before that was about $3 k new. A new version , say the R12s is about $28 k Aus so that’s more than 6 months income today. So is the new bike 5 to 6 times better than the old one. The reality is they are simply far too expensive to buy, service and maintain. So I’ll stick with my $10 k bikes and a couple of old bangers.
So if BMW is to fail it’s because they can’t seem to build bikes that are affordable. Who and what’s to blame? I wish I knew.
BMW could sell as many bog standard 650 boxers as they could make, for the retro market. Whether the western economic manufacturing model could turn a profit on them, is another question.
Not sure if $4 Aus sounds like A lot even in 1985
@@chrishart8548. Mmm, yes sorry fat fingers I meant $4k of course.
yes bmw will be next as they are overpriced and the quality has dropped, and many competitors
That is a seriously polished piece of riding, especially in damp conditions.
It's fine. You can ride in damp or the wet you know. Just clean the bike after 🙄
The new fleet I have suits my needs better. The VFR1200X had an amazing engine but Honda cut corners on the suspension and brakes. It was nearly a keeper but simply too heavy and barge like for my local twisty road riding. I did enjoy the power 😬
I do sort of miss mine though pal but not the weight 😎
Thanks Dave.
In the UK, if the government were brave enough and had a moment of self-reflection, they might see motorcycling as a valid mode of sustainable transport. Embrace it. Take every opportunity to make it more affordable and accessible. Engage in consultation with necessary parties and push quickly to overhaul the costly and overcomplicated route to a motorcycle licence. Relax the overzealous net-zero objectives where applicable to motorcycles. Then, let the market decide.
But as my late Father used to say, "You're living in cloud cuckoo land - Son" 😊
True enough Philip common sense and a will to move forward have never been the hallmarks of government
It’s seems like KTM expanded during covid to meet unprecedented demand of their motorcycles…thinking it was the new normal. Now that normality has returned and coupled with inflation and interest rates they have 100,000 unsold bikes. Looks like they should survive with restructuring and sadly job losses.
No government in my time has been pro motorcycle and that's the real problem no advertising on TVs or other media platforms and motorcycles are always portrayed in a negative way. In fact with the so called climate emergency we should be embracing the humble motorcycle as a main form of commuting as they are far more economical to run than the mass of SUVs you see with only 1 occupant. My daily commute is a cluster of congested roads and the vast majority are single occupants. It's also got to be said that motorcycle costs are way too high these days and the thought of some horrible scrote taking it is off putting to say the least. I find the current trend sad as I have been a motorcycle rider since I was old enough to do and absolutely love it but we are being phased out by health and safety and lack of support from the government. Safe riding all and hopefully all got through the recent storm without much trouble, my MK1 bandit handled it well even the lakes that had appeared 😂😂😂
I feel if I got an injury from a motorcycle accident now I would be screwed financially. I need an operation on the NHS and they won't even refer me. I would be glad to join the 7 million on the waiting list. I can't even get on it.
For me the writing was on the wall when Kawasaki could not produce and sell the W800 cheap enough to compete with the other far eastern manufactures who have much lower overheads and labour costs. They then made the decision to pull the W800 from the UK market. This should have been a wake up call for all mainstream manufacturers. There are interesting times ahead in all areas and not just the motorcycle industry. Oh boy!
Cheers: BJ
It's possible that was an emissions related decision. They still sell them in N.A. for now...
@@creigmacc Still sell them in mainland Europe also so I doubt it is an emissions issue. They couldn't sell enough of them at the price point they needed.
I don't think they will as a result of their rear shaft problem, because of the way they fessed up unlike KTM who handled their cam/design problem like it is the 1970's.
Ducati had a valve problem but it's hard to remember because they handled it without detriment to their reputation.
I think any party should be given one term only to make improvement. Failure should bring termination, as in PRIVATE industry.
Well said Dave.
Dave has certainly got the gift of the gab ,he must have kissed the Blarney stone
the so called Premium Brands will suffer such as HD, BMW , Triumph . simply because over teching their bikes lack of parts availability and then the cost of repairs /servicing . the competition also has a huge affect especially pricing and design look at Triumphs laughable attempt with the Elvis Bonneville £2000 more than the standard bike , With CFM ,Royal Enfield producing affordable very capable well built and designed bikes who needs the self proclaimed premium brands ,
yes i see more dealers going at least two more brands disappearing before the end of 2025 .
You've left out Ducati , whose products are eye wateringly expensive
Not sure what’s it like out of Australia, but BMW’s support in Australia has been superb when I owned one. Historically, they’ve always had long warranties- so if there was any long term problems with BMW, they would have gone broke by now. Remember it’s a smaller division of a much larger car company, so, unlike KTM, they aren’t going under. I wouldn’t hesitate to recommend BMW to other buyers. 5 years roadside assistance- so again, if it was costing BMW money due to unreliability, they would be broke by now. Undoubtably there’s a small group of people which have had shit luck, and will justifiably complain about it - but they’ll also shout the loudest when something goes wrong, which in some cases like BMW, will give a perception that it’s an unreliable brand.
Wasn't expecting that but agree 100 percent
Very interesting words, and a lovely ride out.
Morning Dave . Enjoyed my ride through the Yorkshire countryside, albeit a bit wet and overcast.... the visual was juxtaposed with a narration of calamitas and far reaching events......greeting from a sunny but windy España
I wholy concur.
The unprincipled drive to achieve profit at any cost arrives at the enivitable situation where we find yourselves today.
The antics of our political class at the behest of their masters (corporate funded political parties et.al.) was destined to overextend itself.
Without principles and a determination to pursue higher ideals, we will follow the path of all empires. Greed, division and arrogance has it's consequences.
Keep at it Dave. I value your poetic lilt and words of wisdom coming from an apparently compassionate soul.
Thank you sir for those kind words 😎
Well presented set of facts.
It wouldn't surprise many ,a product now for the lotto winners!
Interesting Vid . I have owned and ridden many motorcycles in the last 50 years. I am happy to be corrected but I cannot remember KTM ever being a major player in the mainstream motorcyle industry maybe worth a look at who owns that company
Take care my freind
It's widely reported that KTM is the largest motorcycle manufacturer in Europe.
Trade wars in the form of tariffs are self-defeating. There are no winners. The question is: How can we better compete with developing nations whose product quality is on the up-swing at a price that undercuts domestic sources with spotty reliability records.
To start, we need to reign in executive compensation. The Tesla board wants to award Musk a $56 billion with a B dollar performance award as if he is God almighty creating everything in the universe, single-handedly. That is money that could be used to reduce prices, provide affordable healthcare for the people performing the work, put into quality control as well as research and development to eliminate our reliance on oil. Imagine if we reduced our dependence on oil, regardless of the source.
To make matters worse here (USA), Musk is acting as an advisor to a serial business failure in our White House whose only dubious claim to success is licensing self-promotion products made in those places he targets for demogoguery.
And of course, our conservatives do get their panties in a twist over others sexual identity as if that is a crucially important consideration for casting a vote.
I’m guessing your a Democrat then🥴
Your absolutely right I've been saying this for years, 🎉
Many events may be plausible but what's the probability? Buy your shares, if possible, in cfmoto Dave, this time next year we'll be millionaires Rodney.
I think you could be right, bmw was due to release November the R1300RT R & RS ... has been put back to spring 2025 .... most of them now are 22k plus my local dealer in Shipley. There are only a few new bikes it's 75% second hand bikes.
If we take a lot of these comments as being an accurate representation of what motorcyclists think and want things should work out ok.... looking at other videos and media there will soon be a vast selection of low technology, high quality, bikes available in brand new condition with fantastic spares back up and unending repair knowledge all at bargain prices....just don't buy a old classic bike for its investment performance! .. you can even choose the level of tech from, well, none through to 12V electrics and the odd disc brake.
I've no doubt you could use a lot of them as daily transport especially the later ones with better brakes or learn to brake sooner! They'd defo be ok for pleasure riding but do need fiddling with fairly often compared to modern stuff... but if that's what you said you wanted....
Allegedly the British bike industry did listen to what riders wanted back in the day resulting in the Ariel Leader which was very advanced for its time - no one bought it
It's possible all motorcycle big names could suffer and perhaps close dealers down. More to do with lack of space cash for alot of people.
Approx 90,000 people visited Motorcycle Live 2024.
That appears to be a market in anyone's book?.
Theres too many bike dealers today, looking for the fast buck.
In the 80,s my local dealer predicted that bike dealers would become as scarce as gun shops.
Let's see less dealers with better service !,,
TBW, - the thinking man's Stuart Fillingham
😎😎😎
Purse stings are going to have to be tightened by VAG. Let’s hope Ducati weathers the storm. BMW has enough of a fan base with more money than ………. . They’ll just play with the PCP figures for future sales. Prices will come down out of Europe. Honda and Suzuki are re-aligning their prices on the newer products. Prices are being ‘Reset’ and they need to be. Great vid as always mate.
Hi vfr mitch how does this modern enfield and twin word compare with the old Vfr word. I have had honda vf n vfrs from about 1984. Im biased my 2000 vfr still with me!
Wise words indeed pal I’m sure the pcp numbers will get massaged! 👍🏻
Just everyone wait til they start producing small capacity bikes and price them the same asthe bigger ones 9k plus, just wait☹️
Bikes are so expensive, big names seem to only care about the £££££
Very profound
Another good video mate. Make you wonder what's going to happen next year. My thoughts is not buying anything next year just because i don't know what is going to happen.
Bulgaria is on the black sea coast, i can ride in to Ukraine on my bike if i want. Plus Eastern European countries are changing there borders to protect them selfs of what may happen,not good or makes yo feel good.
Cheers Ian and I’ve just heard that Vertu BMW have closed a branch here in the uk (albeit cars) worrying signs. Be interesting to see if the Ukraine situation gets “negotiated”. Hope you’re okay pal 👍🏻
How much do you want to pay for a motorbike?
If it is as little as possible, then you have many options.
Would you be prepared to pay more if we added high tariffs on imports to give British builders a price band to make a profit and bring back the "Made in Britain" badge?
Our wallets and purses dictate the market ebbs and flows.
As others have said here and in other places "We only have ourselves to blame"
It's not a case of being prepared to spend more on local goods. I simply haven't got the money, so I either have to buy as cheap as I can or I don't buy anything at all... if I had the income in the first place then I'd buy more expensive, local goods every time!
In case you hadnt noticed, KTM are still trading! We won't know the true picture till end of Feb. These videos of doom and gloom don't help.
Reporting facts always helps…..
@@thebingleywheelerno, KTM havent 'failed' - read their press release of 26/11.
I did…..they’ve “failed” 👍🏻😎
Enjoyed the ride and the views , not the lecture, sorry. Bit long winded for me.
Finger on the pulse, as usual... 👍
BMW their bikes which have been assembled in Germany using 80% of Chinese parts why do you think it takes so long to get any spare parts, it is a long way to China. They expect riders to put up with bikes, most of which cost over 20k, that break down they do not even offer a replacement bike, unlike most Japanese makers they just expect the customer to sit at home and wait for the bike to be repaired. They advise riders of adventure bikes not to get them wet as the relays burn out it also happens when caught out in a rain storm, they tell riders to secure their expensive panniers with bungee cords as the locks fail their top of the range sports bike has a tendency to blow up on track days when pushed hard something they were supposed to be able to do. All so they can make huge profits and pay their shareholders and staff a big bonus.
Lots to think about and possibly prescient comments. As you say assume nothing.
The nudge away from the aspiration to be independent.
It started with stating on the census that Jedi is not a recognised religion.
Yes they are overpriced and unreliable as well
Watch with sound off. Doom and the end of days.
True lol !
Whilst what BW said is correct the guy killed yesterday by a falling tree would have wasted his time worrying about global issues he couldn’t understand let alone change .
BMW = BM TROUBLE YOU & KTM = KEEP TAKING MONEY (people’s )
Our current problems are all self inflicted. Good video.
Another good video Dave , yeah nobody knows whats around the corner , ride safe
Thank you Steve all the best pal
Thank you for the weekend sermon 😉
Sorry, but this vlog is bit of a word salad...
Easy to say when the content isn’t understood
Your channel will be long gone before BMW.
Which would be a tragedy.
@yelwas yet you watch it 😂
@@thebingleywheeler 😃
@thebingleywheeler actually about 20 second of it
Saucer of milk?
I definitely am not saying that Donald Trump equals Jesus, but could you imagine if Kamala Harris had won the election food for thought I shut her to think!
British government should be putting tariffs on Chinese imports. Big tariffs.
500%
Not sure that would help.
Far too late for that.
If we put tariffs on Chinese imports it would stop 0.1 of their income and absolutely destroy most of our businesses because our prices would shoot through the roof and no-one would be able to afford anything. Tariffs mainly hurt countries that set them! Instead of governments throwing money away in useless ventures, they need to help the individual. Maybe provide solar panels to every household and reduce taxes on local goods. Give the normal people more money and better opportunities to buy local and that kickstarts the economy and THAT is what we need.
More, or bigger tariffs??????
Hi Dave, I'm going to wax my $60,000 Ford F-250, make room in the 4 car garage for my $35,000 Harley Davidson, crank up the heat on my $20,000 geothermal system, turn on my $10,000 home theatre system, and check Facebook on my $1000 iPhone. I've got a hard day ahead tomorrow, doing some landscaping on my 20 acres with my $30,000 Kubota. I'm so glad that I voted for somebody who wants to tear down this system of government; I put in an honest day's work every day, and if somebody in some other country needs to do twice as much work to feed his family for one single day, that's his fault. He doesn't worry me at all because his skin is a slightly different color. Hey, I'm White, so the system of government doesn't have anything to do with my success! Isn't that right? Isn't that right?
Sorry , are you being sarcastic or boasting about your wealth, I can’t tell. Could you better explain your position of this?
@@Paul-kp1tu I wouldn't waste my time trying to work out what trolls say, it's likely to be rubbish anyway.
@@Paul-kp1tu😊
@@Paul-kp1tu I did leave that a bit open-ended, Paul. None of that's true for me, except that since I'm Irish, I'm almost White. I was making the point that it's funny and absurd that I hear people here in the US with that level of wealth yammering things like, "We can't put up with this any longer, something's gotta change!"
@@FGRides well then I agree , there is an absurd gap between those with and those without. Irish, eh, well I apologise and as an Aussie with Irish background I’m surprised for not getting your sarcasm quicker.
G’day mate, I recon these videos on your view of life are ridgy didge, you seem to have a way of putting my thoughts into words that make sense. Great footage on the ride as well. I wonder if Mr.Carville would turn his words around in a quote today & say …It’s the stupid economy 🙈🙄🤣🤣🤣. Hooroo for now 👍🏍😁
😊😊👍🏻