Eldritch Knight Build Guide
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 21 มิ.ย. 2024
- Today I do a 20 level Eldritch Knight build guide. This build uses my favorite race and is able to deliver pretty effective damage, particularly after level 7.
The final build can be found here: ddb.ac/characters/34965247/fD...
Check out my Patreon page here: / treantmonkstemple
Timestamps:
0:00 Intro
2:23 Expected results
5:16 Level 1
10:24 Levels 2 & 3
16:06 Levels 4 & 5
18:17 Levels 6 & 7
20:46 Level 8
23:47 Levels 9-12
26:57 Level 13
28:25 Level 14
31:39 Levels 15+
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Bravo! A martial build with neither SS or GWM!!
I love that you made a DEX melee build work this well.
Dex is generally considered to be the better stat if you are forgoing gwm.
@@moto2442 yup. And yet, when building melee, GWM is ubiquitous because of it's effectiveness...
Hence my satisfaction at seeing a strong build which does not use GWM.
Our "evocation abjuration limitation." Say that five times fast.
I barely said it once!
"I don't want to always make my characters variant humans"
That's why I give my players a free Feat at Lv1.
Helps with more customization and more variation, specially on races.
I actually use treantmonk's feat system and allow everyone to take 1 bullet at every at first level and at evey ASI. For the ASI they can give up the ASI for additional bullets. It works really well to make power more smooth over the levels.
Me too, with limitations. Some feats are just too good, I don't want everyone picking Lucky as their first feat, that doesn't add much flavour to their character.
I just changed the Variant Human so that they earn their feat at level 3, like how Gith and Aasimar gain additional racial abilities after level 1. Still allows the unique advantage of playing a Variant Human, but without the incongruent power boost at the lowest levels of play.
@@dylandugan76 so... At level one you get a race that gives you +1 to 2 stats, skill and a language? Pretty lame don't you think? If you are doing this I think that humans should also get other abilities to not feel completely unplayable at levels 1-2.
@@Quintal100kg I see your point. Might be a better way, but it hasn't been a problem at my table yet.
Yay! An Eldritch Knight build! Thank you so much!
I've been waiting for this! Thanks, Treantmonk.
I think the assumption that the enemy will usually move for the bonus damage on Booming Blade is a little unrealistic. Unless your DM really likes completely ignoring the front line, typically I believe they'll stay still if you're still next to them. If the character had the mobile feat and could retreat after the hit, this might be more likely.
This. I see people claiming BB is op and I don't see it, just don't move.. Green flame blade is much better imo.
@@williamdegrey if they dont move you just reduced their speed to 0. Thats also a Win. Its far better than GFB.
? In the video he said that he didnt assume that they were gonna get the advantage of bb every turn.
So good! If I were to play this, I'd go an Elf for Darkvision with Shadowblade. And I love (overvalue) Elven Accuracy :p
Thats a combo i use its so nice
Your videos on this stuff are always excellent! Cheers for another great guide!
As someone who struggles to make decent builds for combat due to poor rolls and lack of knowledge, I love these videos.
They help me understand what to focus on for level to level growth, and what tactics to use during combat.
Thank you for this!
Hexblade and Eldritch Knight make a fun combo.
Eldritch Knight's War Magic feature doesn't specify what kind of cantrip triggers it. You take a Longbow as your Pact Weapon (enhanced blade pact invocation)
So you essentially Eldritch Blast, war magic bow, Eldritch Blast again on an action surge.
Edit- If you're a Hexblade you get the bonus Curse damage on every shot, and are solely reliant on Charisma. You could also Eldritch Smite with the bow
That is truly disgusting... I LOVE IT!
I don't intend to make an optimized build but this video gave me a good idea of what I should be focusing on for Spell acquisition
I have a drow eldritch knight and the hand crossbow works wonders with darkness, faerie fire and shadow blade as my favorite spells to use.
I've been looking for good halfling builds & I definitely like this one. You didn't mention any creative uses of Halfling Nimbleness, which might be the biggest advantage to having a halfling in melee. Especially with cunning action or Zephyr strike, but obviously those aren't Fighter abilities.
It is important to point out that Shadow Blade cannot be used to cast GFB or BB due to reprints of the spell in TCoE. Just so people know.
So dose the build still work?
JC ruled you can still combine shadowblade and GFB/BB as RAI since that was a bit of an oversight. The new ruling was to stop something else.
@treantmonk love your videos, guides, and all your sage advice. Any chance we could get a video of some class and subclass suggestions for Rime of the Frosmaiden module that’s about to be released. Love the god wizard but I’m guessing ray of frost is a weak choice. :D
I like Haste for the other reasons you mentioned (AC, dex saves, speed), but if I recall, upcasting Shadow Blade actually does MORE damage than Haste does using a 3rd level spell slot (which increases it to 3d8). Part of it is not losing than 1 round cast for Haste vs. bonus action for Shadow Blade. So really, Haste is PRIMARILY for the other benefits. Otherwise, Shadow Blade does plenty for your damage. (Edit: Also, Haste doesn't have the dim light requirement, which adds to your flexibility)
Nice build.
This is what I would do for a stout halfling eldritch knight :
S8 D17 C16 I8 W15 Ch8, I really don't care about intelligence, Booming Blade all the way!
Dueling fighting style, Urban Bounty Hunter
Skills : Perception - Animal Handling (Fighter), Stealth-Insight (Bounty Hunter)
3) Light-BB-Minor Illusion (cantrips), Shield-Absorb Elements-Find Familiar
4) Squat Nimbleness : +1 Dex, +5' speed, Acrobatics, advantage to escape a grapple. Protection from E&G
6) Warcaster
7) Warding Wind + Shadow Blade - Find Familiar (Shadow Blade at level 7!)
8) Mobile : +10' speed (the fastest Halfling!), No opportunity attacks when you make an attack against your opponent (Go! Go! Booming Blade and you run to the evil wizard who thought he was safe). Find Familiar is back! Or you can take Misty Step for even more movement.
10) Darkness (escape)
11) Arcane Lock (meh)
12) Resilient W+1 --> W16
13) Counterspell or Dispel Magic but you probably cast Shadow Blade with these beautiful slots (2d8 --> 3d8)
14) Dex+2, Blink or Haste or Fly
16) Con+2 or Lucky, Counterspell or Dispel Magic
19) Con+2, Fire Shield
20) Dimension Door or Greater Invisibility
If you want, you can switch Mobile-Resilient Wisdom- Dex+2 whenever you want at levels 8-12-14.
Can't say I was expecting a Halfling Sword & Board wielder coming in, but I like how the character turned out, and it illustrates how solid the Eldritch Knight is - I consider it the most well-rounded of the Fighter builds currently available because of its mix of offense and defensive abilities. That is especially relevant for characters intending to be frontliners, as you need to worry about both those aspects. Would you consider that a build intending to pump its Intelligence after its Strength is at 20 to be effective and picking up a few save spells (like Banishment) at high levels to impose them with disadvantage on the saves to potentially be effective?
The problem I have with ileldrich knight is I feel like I should make a thrown weapon build but after level 5 your second attack leaves ypu without a weapon and its typically better to burst down one enemy than attack two and split your damsge
I really like the gnome as a racial option for dex based EKs. The +int and advantage vs int, wis and cha spells is v.good
I've just made a Gnome EK - primarily for colour...I thought it would be fun to create an elderly Gnome who looks like a kindly Grandmother...but is reliving her youth as an EK :)
The Eldritch Knight I'm currently playing could not be more different (what a great game this is!). Made a pro wrestler in full plate that prefers not to use weapons, so unarmed fighting style, grappler feat and tavern brawler feat. Found a belt of Frost Giant strength so now if he wins initiative, the baddest enemy in the room gets a hug, (always) loses their athletic check and is promptly pinned/restrained. If he loses initiative, the defensive spells usually prevent whatever is sent his way and then they get suplexed into the floor.
Love your clever build tho
Small sized Arcane Trickster? Fingers crossed for Forest Gnome 🤞
yes! this isn't a democracy... but if it were I also vote for Gnome!
I personally went Rock Gnome for the extra HP & concentration. But Gnomes are all family, right?
Hi Chris! I really like your work and your use of imagination for dnd combats!
I have a question about my Eldritch Knight character for a campaign of Curse of Strahd : As I'm a High elf, I have one more cantrip as I'm starting the game and which one you I take? I will play with a cleric-assassin, a moon-druid beast master and a paladin vengeance.
I'm planning to take Booming blade, Green Flames and Minor Illusion (I should probably take this one as a starter cantrip for the awesome utility in combat cf: minor illusions guide video ).
Later on, I will take Find Familiar, Shield, Protection G&E and Absord Elements.
Then on higher level (until 11-12 level) : Warding Wind, Shadow Blade, Mirror Image.
@Treantmonk's Temple
Hey , good video and you really gave me some ideas for my own EK but I have a question and could not find the answer in the comments. How did you play the early game? Because without warcaster you can not use BB or GFB with a shield and a weapon afain. They both have a somatic componant. Would love to get an answer. :3
I feel like the EK benefits the most from shadowblade over any other build. Proficiency in constitution and multi attacks per round; also a lack of other level 2 spells that mesh.
I’m interested to see if you take shadowblade with the Arcane Trickster build, it only increases damage output by an average of 4dmg, there are a lot other great level 2 illusion spells, shadow blades concentration competes with magical ambush spells and the Rogue needs to take warcaster or resilient Con to protect concentration
Can’t wait to see what you do
I was very surprised at the "8 expected combats a day" remark, and even more so when you said that a 10 minute spell would last multiple combats.
Even in the more combat-heavy campaigns I've played in, 8 combats would be extremely excessive, and expecting two combats within 10 minutes of one another would be a rarity. I wonder, by "combat", do you mean the whole encounter? Like, a single fight against a gang of goblins? Or is this a term for a set number of rounds, where a single encounter could last several "combats" (i.e 5 rounds to one combat, where a 10 round encounter is 2 combats).
EDIT: I see a lot of people talking about dungeons. I can safely say that none of the campaigns I've been in, DMed, or heard of from friends were focused so much on dungeons that such a campaign would become the standard reference for a build. Dungeon crawling campaigns are incredibly niche nowadays, with more and more campaigns revolving around an overarching plot rather than a series of dungeons. Even the more combat-heavy campaigns I know of (including modules) aren't constructed as dungeon crawls. So yes, in such a campaign, you may expect to find a lot of back-to-back encounters, but (as far as my knowledge and experience goes) any run-of-the-mill campaign wouldn't rely on dungeons to set up encounters.
In a dungeon (fighting room by room) a 10 minute spell can easily last 2 or more rooms where each room has a fight. It really depends on the style of campaign you are in. Aggressive parties in dungeons can easily have 4 or more combats in a single session. More if you use rules which limit player turn durations.
I find that a lot of the newer DMs usually only have maybe one or two very hard encounters per day, while more experienced ones tend to have staggered encounters. So instead of fighting 20 goblins, you fight them in waves. This now allows certain lasting abilities to be used multi combat as they were intended and keeps a good pace going for the flow of the game.
My players usually fight 5-10 combat encounters per day on an adventuring day. Large dungeons allow for this pretty easily. Their 10 minute spells have lasted more than one combat because they've moved on to another part of a dungeon immediately after dealing with one encounter. One time a Bless spell lasted two combat encounters and ran out in the middle of the third because the party kept alerting other groups of enemies and staying in combat without being able to rest.
I was surprised, too. I can only think of maybe a handful of occasions where I've experienced even just two combats within minutes of each other, even in dungeons. I'm not criticizing this! Just adding in that my experience is also "8 combats a day? I am FASCINATED."
Chris' assumptions exactly match those outlined by the designers in the DMG. I suspect that most games, including my own, don't really align with these design conceits. That said, they're absolutely the best baseline for comparison. They are the assumptions around which the mechanics have been designed and balanced.
Hey Chris with Tasha origins customization would you put a bonus in Intelligence instead of constitution?
New combo of Booming Blade that i make with my new character. Booming blade is a good cantrip over all, but many times you dont get to make the secondary damage. But, with the new Tasha's feat, Crusher, is REALY easy to make it.
Crusher is really good on it own. It's a good half feat with moderste benefits. If you land a crit with a weapon that makes bludgegoing damage, all atracks against it will have advantage until the start of your next turn.
But the other feature is more tactical and match up really well for making battlefield control and throw enemies to a fall, an ally spell effect, in range to heavy hitters, etc.
But the big issue is with the booming blade Cantrip. Much time, when you attack, the enemies wont move and trigger the effect. Becjase they coud simply attack you and save themselves from the damage.
The Crusher feat solve this. Because you can do the following.
-Cast Booming Blade.
-make your attack normally
-In a Hit, make normal damage
-move the creature 5 ft
-wait till it moves for attack you, hit another target or waste its action to avoid damage.
You wil get a HUGE tactical advantage. The three cases are WAY better of what would happen when you use Booming Blade without Crusher.
1. Make the enemies hit other target (hopefully, tankier than you)
2. Or better, take the damage (wich increases with level) to get in meele with you.
3. Or the best. Wasting his turn/ scaping.
The only thing you need to do is keeping enemies 10 ft of you, the crusher feat takes on that perfectly.
And now that i've been playing for a while with this combo. I can confirma that is reaally easy to place it.
Best of all. This fits with multiple builds and classe. You could go Hexblade, Bladesinger, Battlesmith, Cleric, Rogue, and many more, you only need the feat and the cantrip that isnt so hard to get (high elf free cantrip, a dip in sorcerer, warlock or wizard, magic initiate, etc)
Well. I hope this commet could help someone or be used for inspiration.
English isnt my main language, so i apologize for any mistakes.
Love your build guides and wanted some advice. Just finished Rise of Tiamat, with my Vengeance Paladin (6)/Draconic Sorcerer (8)/ Hexblade (1), half elf. DM is allowing each party member to collect any one magic item from the horde and is planning a Level 20 one-shot. I am attuned to a Cloak of Displacement, Frostbrand Greatsword, and Belt of Hill Giant Strength and planning on taking the last 5 levels in Sorcerer. What magic item (probably legendary) would be a good idea for level 20?
I mean if anything is up for grabs, then a ring of three wishes is kind of the obvious choice for a one shot. Doesn't use an attunement slot and lets you cast the most powerful spell in the game 3 times...
Would you consider multiclassing war wizard here? I love the idea of a EK12/WW8
I'm watching this for my gnome EK. I'm shocked at the number of fights per day and rounds of the fights. I rarely get fights over 3 rounds and only once was pushed past 3 fights a day. My DMs seem to like travel > big enemy fight. I don't know why I'm still so conservative with my spells when it's rare that I have to worry about using more than 2 in combat as cleric.
Great video! I just did an EK build yesterday. I couldn't figure out how to get through level 3 without warcaster (I'm a mt dwarf) using 1 hander and shield, so I went with a maul and defense and started trying to model after the dark knight in final fantasy. A few questions...
How do you do the calculations for baseline and your character? I'd like to see where my guy stacks up (though I wasn't optimizing for damage, just want to see how it stacks up)
Also, what is your opinion of blur? I was planning on leveraging blur and shield to allow me to be a primary target.
Last question, does shadow blade benefit a strength character?
Thanks so much for all the videos and information!
He recently made a video on calculating average DPR, explaining the chart he showed. Blur seems like an attractive option instead of Warding Wind. Lastly finesse weapons are allowed, not required, to use Dex instead of Str.
Glad you found the channel
@@radkobachvaroff thank you!
I think this works out well for Melee Halfling . . . Start as rogue. Go to 3rd level become a Swashbuckler, then go Battle Master Fighter
Would love to see a battlemaster guide. I’m currently just on level 3 and am stuck between this and Eldritch knight though it won’t go much farther than 5/6
If it doesn't hit 7 I wouldn't bother with EK.
Think Like A Sponge yeah I wish there was a little graphic that went and would specify the sweet spots for classes / subclasses though. To see what comes up sooner
th-cam.com/video/0Adqhz3xu1U/w-d-xo.html
This channel has you covered. In this series from a couple of months ago, these sweet spots are outlined. There's a separate video for each tier of play. Enjoy.
instablaster
I went with VH but took Magic Adept (warlock) basically to get one more first level slot to use shield. Also took Armor of Agyathys 5th level but I haven’t used it yet.
Do you assume no magic weapons? A +2 or even +3 weapon can change the booming blade to extra attack argument, and also subtlely change the value of Shadowblade.
Can’t wait for the AT build, I made one for my first every character and he’s still my favourite
He already did it no ? The video before this one
@@alxtoad That's a guide to spell selection, not a build guide
My first character was an AT as well! My favorite subclass, hands down.
Would have to agree. I made an AT for ToH and I gotta say. I will be making a new one
I feel kind of dumb but what is "AT" ?
Hi, Chris. This video was so helpful! I'm just starting out with D&D and am going to have my first campaign soon. I have been trying to create a very similar build, and if I may, I had a couple of questions:
My character is a Variant Human who'll also wield a rapier under the dueling fighting style. As I understand it, variant humans are allowed to gain a feat at level one. I also am using a mainly DEX build with low STR and CHA (10 and 8 respectively), what would be an effective feat to have starting out?
Also, as an EK Variant Human, I was wondering if having a low strength ability score would be detrimental to my character. I'm not using it as a dump stat (I have charisma as my lowest), but I think that fighters usually rely on strength/dexterity depending on the build. I've put my racial bonuses into strength and dexterity, so hopefully that helps somewhat.
Again, thank you so much for uploading this video! Please keep up the amazing work.
The main drawback of dumping strength is you need to use medium armor (or take a 10ft movement penalty if you wear heavy) which caps out one lower for AC - it's not a huge deal, but is a drawback. As far as feats go for level 1, Lucky is probably a good choice, other feats I might consider would be medium armor master, healer, alert or tough - all good feats on that build.
@@TreantmonksTemple Awesome! Thank you so much for the input. I'll keep that in mind as I'm creating my build. I appreciate the help!
Hey, Treantmonk! if you're not going to use the 4th attack per round that much, why not grab a few levels of a dip in another class? Like 4 levels of wizard, 2 of which taken early for ritual casting and something between war magic/sculpt spells/portent and the last couple later on for the feat and the bonus spell slots to upcast spells?
I've been considering this for the EK that I'm leveling(I'm currently 3 and thinking of branching off) and I really wanted to see some EK discussion, as I'm not sure if multiclassing is worth it, and if it is how much can an EK multiclass and still be efficient in melee? What do you think of the 18/2, 16/4 and 11/9 or even 8/12 EK/Wiz builds? If you're not using multi-attacks that much, then, grabbing a few extra spell slots, ritual casting, or even a lvl 6 or higher wizard boon would be benefitial, wouldn't it?
I know it's hard to comment on this much, here, but I would really appreciate the input of any optimancer reading this, as I've been really struggling with deciding an EK build.
PS: I'm building for AL, so another advantage of dipping Wizard is getting GFB/BB cantrips from EK and grabing absorb elements and other possible spells in my wizard spellbook.
Cheers and thanks again for the fantastic videos! :)
As a minimum, I would go 7 EK for the bonus action attack before a multiclass.
Forgive me if this has already been asked but what if you took at least 3 levels of sorcerer shadow origin to get darkness you can see in if you spend 2 sorc points and 120 ft dark vision, as well as a survivability with their strength of the grave feature. A few more spell slots and cantrips. Would love to see how this would play out. Wouldn't have to focus on cha just like not having to focus on int. Just a thought. Love the vids.
Another good video but I have a quibble regarding shadow blade. As someone who is playing a human arcane trickster the lack of darkvision makes the use of shadow blade troublesome. Especially since the EK would have to burn two of their non abjuration/evocation picks to pick up both the darkvision spell and shadow blade. At least my arcane trickster only had to burn one. I would never recommend it unless your DM runs the type of game were you can dependably pick up some Goggles of Night or similar. Otherwise I would play a race with darkvision.
ik im super late but if you want to make a strength based version get eldritch adept or blind fighting, use darkness and get advantage on all of your attacks
@treantmonk what do you think of multiclassing from fighter into wizard? Is that going to be a more powerful gish overall or not? And if so, which level would you do it? Rolled crazy high, 17 Str, 18 Con, 18 Int. (DM was watching.)
I slightly prefer going 7 level of EK and then going War Magic Wizard for the rest of the way and going Shadow Blade attack. Depends on your campaign, with Shadow Blade and 3x attack you can do more dmg at level 13 going full EK than multiclassing into Wizard, but Wizard will let you get more spells. So a bit less damage but much more versatility I've found.
Would you ever consideri dipping 2 Wizard for War Wizard or Bladesinger? War Wizard gives a shield-like ability for saves and ac and with drawback not being an issue, and also adds Int to Intelligence. Bladesinger gives Int to AC and concentration saves for one minute as a BA (prof times until LR), which allows you to forgo the shield to a degree. Both give extra 1st level spell slots, more wizard spells, 2 cantrips, and access to Arcana
I agree that WW or BS are fantastic level 2 dips. There's all sorts of permissions for eldritch knight multiclassing woth wizard and how many levels to do, but I find it hard to justify a build that doesn't have the 2 level dip as better than straight EK.
Out of curiosity how often are you assuming you'll proc the secondary effects for BB/GFB? It seems like you don't have a way to compel enemies to move after BB. GFB is probably a little more reliable but enemies can still usually shift to be more than 5ft apart fairly easily.
It's of course pure guesswork. I use 50%
@@TreantmonksTemple I also used that in my calculations for it but that makes greenflame blade signigicantky stronger in my opinion once the ability has scaled greenflame blade will net you 6.5 damage every time you use it so it is better than attacking normally but booming blade is a far greater risk so it becomes better to use the regular attacks than booming blade
Jotted this down in notes, hopes this works with Half-Elf.
Would I be able to take Magic Initiate before War Caster?
I kind of want cure wounds.
Great video. I’d like to see The Fake Eldritch Knight - most levels be wizard, but still act like the fighter in this build.
See Chris's War Mage build, it's exactly that....
2 Fighter/ Wizard X is a very strong build. Being able to action surge a level 9 and level 8 spell in the same turn while wearing heavy armor and a shield is pretty nuts
While hold person is normally not something you recommend, how do you feel about it for EK? Action Surge can give you an opportunity to attack the target immediately before they have any further opportunities to save against the spell, and they have disadvantage on the saving throws if you have hit them. Additionally, the fact that fighters have so many more attacks than other classes means that you potentially could benefit the most from it compared to your allies.
Obviously, this means investing in your intelligence to have a competitive saving throw DC (or a headband of intellect)
It's certainly better, but remember it still can only be cast on humanoids, which is a pretty big limitation. Also, the disadvantage will only be on the initial saving throw.
Look at what it costs to make this work:
1. Use a precious free-choice spell on Hold Person
2. Find some worthy humanoids to fight
3. Use your action to cast the spell instead of just attacking several times
4. Use a second-level spell slot
5. Hope it misses the saving throw
6. Use your only Action Surge
7. Finally use another action to really clobber it
Furthermore if you want to use Eldritch Strike you need to hit it first and probably wait a round before casting Hold Person.
I believe that the free spell choices for EKs and ATs are special and should immediately make them a more powerful character. You shouldn't need to add a long list of other resources and circumstances to get value out of these picks.
Question: If you were to make an EK without using shadow blade would you still get above the baseline damage with the blade cantrips and war magic? You only account for Shadow Blade 2-3 times out of 8 so I feel like you could (just not as high above it). I have a strength based EK and Shadow Blade just doesnt fit his personality roleplay wise. He is too much of a light good guy lol
I think you could, but it would be closer.
@@TreantmonksTemple thanks for responding. I don't need to be the biggest damage dealer but I want to at least meet your baseline and maybe a bit above it. I also want to multiclass and with that I might never get 3 attacks. But by your math I should be fine with war magic and green flame/booming blade.
Hey Man
Quick question. Does Wizards of the Coast give you any trouble about using their content in the videos? Is there anything that says you can't do reviews, discussions or anything like that of the D&D world? thanks.
As far as I know, WOTC doesn't even know my channel exists. They likely could send me a cease/desist if they wanted to, hasn't happened yet.
@@TreantmonksTemple I've heard mention of the Open Gaming License and System Reference Document that Wizards of the Coast has on there website. I knew they had some rules, but I wondered how protective they were. Thanks man. Please keep those videos coming.
What about spells for 10&11? You learn additional spells there.
What do you think of of multiclassing the EK and AT, Treantmonk?
I could see switching to AT anytime after the 7th level of EK (once you get the bonus action attack). You will have a lot more spells known, but note your spell slots will not be affected.
Treantmonk's Temple That makes a lot of sense. And especially with the way you built this EK, making it a DEX build, that would probably synergize very well with AT since you can get the benefit of Sneak Attack with the rapier. I think the biggest downside for an EK/AT multiclass would simply be you miss out on 4th level spells
with the release of Tasha's, and the inclusion of fey touched and shadow touched, would you update this build in any way shape or form?
Getting hex from fey touched would be good for a eldritch Knight, but then you wouldn't be using booming blade, you would want to use extra attack and PAM/xbow expert
@@mcullennz there is also Hunters Mark
Hex would be better if the nonmagical weapon is being resisted, but the M component complicates things.
Hunters Mark is just V, doesnt interfere at all, and if you are dealing magical BPS, its unlikely it would get resisted
Hi, I'm really new in D&D so i was wondering, why is EK build so focused on Dexterity and Constitution?
All melee fighter like to have Constitution because it increases your HP. Melee spellcasters, like the Eldritch Knight, also like Constitution because it used to mantain concentration on spells when you take damage, which is often for melee fighters.
Dexterity is here because our weapons, rapiers and shadow blades, have the finesse property, meaning we can use Dexterity instead of Strength for our melee weapons attacks. Dexterity is also useful for an Initiative Bonus, and it helps with Dexterity Saving throws which are very common.
Did you consider mobile as a feat? Positioning may be very important for the dim light.
I did not. Positioning could be important, but a feat slot is super-expensive. Could switch spells around to improve mobility, that would be a far less expensive way to go.
Improved chances of triggering BB seems like the bigger key than anything.
Hey Chris, love all you do, I just wanna make sure if you’re aware that the help action for attack advantage doesn’t let you choose which ally gets it, but just the next one who attacks. Do you consider that fact when building?
How sure are you about that?
@@TreantmonksTemple
Only as sure as Jeremy's answer here
www.sageadvice.eu/2017/05/10/help-action-canmust-you-specify-which-ally-is-helped/
Also in the dm screen, the help action is worded more specific like that. Though in the player's handbook that I have and on dnd beyond, I could interpret it as you having a choice.
In all honesty Chris, I really wish you could prove me wrong, I've been trying to get ot the bottom of this for hours now with Jeremy clerifying it somewhere else as well, but no luck.
@@edwardgiurgiu6812 Yet the rule suggests if you aid an ally they gain advantage as long as they attack before the next turn, not that the next creature that attacks gets advantage. That seems to contradict what Crawford has stated.
@@TreantmonksTemple Yes I know right!? That's why I'm coming to you. Do you have a ''DM's Screen - Reincarnated''? Because the text in that one supports what Crawford said instead.
@@TreantmonksTemple To be fair, non of Crawford's tweets are ''legit'' so to speak since the 2019 compendium came out media.wizards.com/2019/dnd/downloads/SA-Compendium.pdf and there is no mention of it after even more digging. So I guess going by the book/Dnd Beyond text and not the DM's Screen - Reincarnated is fine until anything else is said.
It's just since you have a lot of builds focused on find familiar, I wanted to bring this up for attention, for my sake as well, since I've gotten really into optimizing builds lately, even following your baseline maths. It's a ton of fun!
War Magic, should have been after you take the attack actoin you can cast a Cantrip.
Would this build be more effective as an elf/ half-elf taking the Elven Accuracy Feat or does the Halfling with Halfling Luck still out perform?
How do guys feel about giving characters feets, skills, atributes or class abilities for acomplishing certain things? For instance getting an invocations for some special service or contact with a patron?
Be careful with that - it can lead to making it more difficult to balance encounters and even unintentional bias can leave some players feeling underappreciated.
@@TreantmonksTemple My point is some things are bad. Not because they give you nothing but because they are an opportunity cost. If you give them for RP they are probobly not going to have a huge impact; especialy if you give it for RP reasons or to let a player have an impact in an aspect of the game they arent built for.
mechanically, treat these "feats" like magic items and have them take up an attunement slot.
Varient human, Magic Initiate (Hex, Green - flame blade, eldritch blast). This works very well and adds plenty of extra damage.
but that would mean using EK spells for anything a very limited things, because eldritch blast needs charisma
I would argue that Hex isn’t really worth it as it doesn’t add enough damage and tries to take up your concentration compared to a spell like Flaming Sphere, Haste, Slow, Shadow Blade, Greater Invisibility...there’s just too many other great concentration spells that are better than Hex in my opinion.
@@keeganmbg6999 but if you use want eldritch blast, that means splitting some points into Cha, your flaming sphere would easily be saving against.
And it also depends on level. Hexlich blast will be good at level 5-6, when you dont have anything offensive to concentrate on, and arent using a greatsword
texteel not without the Cha it wouldn’t be. Extra Attack alone will do more at 5th lvl than Eldritch Blast assuming you take your first ASI and are using a 1d10 Weapon as well. 1d10+4 > 1d10+1d6 and that’s without using your Concentration on anything. If you picked up Dueling than you can go as low as a Spear 1d6+6 > 1d10+1d6. Now you can argue that Hex only enhances those attacks sure but that didn’t sound like the OP’s intentions. If I misconstrued that then my apologies.
@@keeganmbg6999 i re-read what you wrote.
I still think hex will be useful for level 5-6, when you dont have shadow blade or controll spells,
and depending on build, EB may provide an otherwise lacking ranged option.
It is true that certain builds can perform better, but I think OPs idea is good in general, if you dont want to think too much (what is too much can differ between people, I dont know where "thinking about different stats for MI but otherwise ignoring optimization" falls on that)
I am assuming that encumbrance isn't a thing in your campaigns. Strength 8 with a rapier, shield and scale mail or half plate would drop that speed to 15 ... possibly to 5 if you like to loot a lot. I know encumbrance is an optional rule, but when a player dumps strength on a medium or heavy armor character, they should be expecting a few raised eyebrows from the DM.
If I had a DM that cared about spell components, etc, I wouldn't dump strength on a medium+ armored character. Sadly, this isn't something you can just fix on your next visit to the town ... unless going to town = rerolling your character.
My favorite EK build is 9 wizard 11 fighter using shadow blade its so strong (using war wizard so i always act 1st)
What subclass of fighter?
@@nooneyouknowof well he said it's Eldritch Knight
@@francescopassero8369 just checking becuz some people build their own version of EK w/o picking the actual EK subclass for their build, and he already deviated from a straight fighter EK build.
I like the mix as i get higher level spells (to up cast shadow blade if a longer fight) but 3 attacks at 4d8 is nice and i never worry about getting hurt most of the time (war mage+good armor)
Booming Blade + warcaster is a fantastic opportunity attack, but I think you're overvaluing it when compared to multi-attack, especially when there are multiple opponents. If you kill something you want to be able to attack a 2nd target. You also are counting too much on a creature moving and setting off the booming blade. An enemy facing someone using Booming Blade isn't going to move a 2nd time.
Halflings don’t have dark vision, this seems like a large limitation for an EK that wants to make good use of the shadowblade spell.
You could take the Eldritch adept feat to get devilsight
@@justinstreet1254 that feat doesn't officially exist yet, right?
Mark Cronan you are technically correct if your table doesn’t allow UA playtesting content.
Just curious, aren't the character on dndbeyond missing a spell selected, if I remember correctly eldritch knight knows 13 spells at level 20...but awsome built...
Right you are, I'm missing a spell...
@@TreantmonksTemple yay, that means I win a free use of the build in my campaigns, lol
@@TreantmonksTemple by the way, if I may make a question about the spell shadowblade. I know it is a simple one-handed light weapon. But for an eldritch knight focused on using greatsword, to modify the spell turning it into a two-handed heavy, which can't be thrown, would still be a 2nd level spell? Should the damage go up one die or keep it the same for not changing the spell level.
Can you make a guide to a Tiefling arcane trickster?
Wait, you don't want to use shadow blade in magical darkness? Doesn't that count for the darkness component of the advantage, nullifying your disadvantage from attacking blind? I understand you are going to use your movement to try and get out of the magical darkness and maybe use your action for an additional movement if needed. But in the circumstance where you have to enter an area of magical darkness, nullifying disadvantage would be valuable.
You generally don't have disadvantage in magical darkness (nor advantage) because both you and your target are unseen.
@@TreantmonksTemple Must be something I have carried over from previous editions. Unless you have truesight or devil's sight, then you have the blinded condition, imposing disadvantage on attack rolls.
it would be very situational I guess and very much up to how the DM interprets the conditions.
The situation I was thinking of would be; if you are attacking a warlock in a dim light condition and they have devils sight and cast darkness on themselves for cover, then shadow blade would nullify your blinded condition. Since devils sight says you can see normally in magical darkness and the current normal lighting conditions are dim light. If magical darkness was cast in a bright light situation then that wouldn't work. But that is how I interpret devils sight would work.
@@TheMadJestyr "Unless you have truesight or devil's sight, then you have the blinded condition, imposing disadvantage on attack rolls."
Yes, but so is your enemy. granting advantage.
How do you think this build stacks up against the Iron Man EK build?
I don't think it's as powerful. You likely won't need to talk to your DM beforehand for this one though.
Abjuration Evocation Limitation :D
The biggest problem with the melee cantrips in SCAG is that they rely on enemies cooperating with you to do their extra damage. If they don't bunch up for GFB, or don't move for BB, there's zero bonus damage at 1-4, and less from 5-20 than you'd get as a Fighter from just making your Extra Attacks. (Especially if you ever manage to acquire a magic weapon with any kind of bonus damage!) And maybe it's just the DMs I play with, but I find I can get these cantrips to work *at most* once per combat before enemies refuse to do the things that allow me to do extra damage. The SCAG cantrips are still good for Rogues, Bladesingers, and Hexblade/Blade Pact Warlocks, or any class that caps out at 1-2 attacks; but for Fighters? Meh.
Although. As long as you're counting on the extra damage from BB, which requires enemies to move after you hit them, why NOT count on also getting Opportunity Attacks when that happens?
Re: Find Familiar - As both a player and a DM, I find that Familiars make everything more boring. Partly because they tend to bog down play, but mostly because they're just SO good that using them as much as possible becomes clearly the best choice. If you have one or more (Gods help you) PCs in the party with Familiars, the party tends to spend a lot of time sitting around letting the Familiars do any required scouting and exploration, all at zero risk - and with zero interaction of any kind from the non-Familiar-having players. It's not a fun or interesting dynamic - just the obvious, logical one once Familiars are in the mix.
You're a Fighter. If you melee someone and you can prevent them from moving, that's good for you.
@@fadeleaf845 Depends on what you're trying to do. If you're just trying to keep one opponent busy and don't care about damage, it's fine; if you're trying to do effective damage and counting on BB to keep you above baseline, well, it won't.
If I'm not mistaken, Chris doesn't calculate DPR by assuming BB's secondary effect activates 100% of the time, he mentioned it being lower. So, even with that taken into account, it's still very close to Extra Attack. War Magic does a lot to tighten that gap.
re the multiclassing - you don't have to wait to level 17 to grab those extra levels... grabbing 3 levels of warlock early on will give you L2 spell slots that refresh on a short rest which means you'd be able to use Shadow Blade on every combat. Since there's no disadvantage to using it in brightly lit situations, it takes that part of the spell out of consideration. :) since Shadow Blade is on the warlock spell list, that also frees up that spell selection for your EK to something else. If you wanted to go that route, I'd actually consider grabbing those levels from L3-5 -- you're delaying your ASI's and getting extra attack, but Shadow Blade represents enough of a power boost that you're still even with a full fighter and possibly a little ahead of them with the SCAG cantrips at level 5, and you're still getting War Magic by level 10. :)
average 8 combat day, you mean rip and tearing throught an endless tide of demons ;D
Hey Chris, I can't see how booming blade beats two attacks at 5th level when you have dueling, can you show us that calculation? I must be missing something.
Level 5:
Booming Blade = (4.5x0.88) + (4.5x0.16) + (2.25x0.88) = =6.66 or 18.6 if BB.
2 attacks = (10.5 x 0.88) + (4.5x0.16) = 9.96 (1st) (10.5 x .63) + (4.5x0.0525) = 6.85 2nd attack = 16.81
@@TreantmonksTemple Thanks Chris, it looks like with two attacks you assume the second hasn't got advantage, but with BB you assume you always have? I had assumed advantage for all, 50% secondary damage so I got:
BB: 2d8+6 x .84 + 2d8 x .0975 (crit) plus 2d8 x .42 + 2d8 x .04875 = 18.135
And 2 attacks ((d8+6) x .84 + d8 x .0975) x 2 = 18.5175. Still very close but 2 attacks edges it
Find Familiar using the Help Action only the first attack gets advantage, "If your ally attacks the target before your next turn, the first attack roll is made with advantage." Not sure if there are other advantage-generating abilities he's considering when he's writing out equations but Help only affects the first one.
@@billwarburton8669 You can just have the familiar hold their turn until right before yours and just have it give the help-action then iirc
@@billwarburton8669 Thanks for that. Any time I put a familiar into combat my DMs tend to kill it, so that's not something I've come across. On the other hand we sometimes play with flanking, so in those campaigns advantage happens all the time....
Surprised there was no mention of upcasting shadow blade.
Third level shadow blade is an extra d8 worth of damage on each hit, and will give you a lot more value when using your extra attacks.
Rough math seems to indicate that you will deal better single target damage than using the blade cantrips if you won't land the follow up.
Just means you have another option in combat.
So I did some digging in to how grenflame/booming blade interact with haste and it seems to come down as to whether or not they count as using the attack action. The making an attack section states that anything that has an attack roll is an attack and since the attack action specifically references that I could see a reasonable interpretation of the wording meaning that you could in fact classify booming blade or greenflame blade as an attack action
They do not count as using the attack action, they are a cast a spell action.
Edit: NVM I THOUGHT HASTE WAS LESS LIMITING THAN IT WAS AND YOU COULD STILL CAST SPELLS WITH THE EXTRA ACTION ( you should be able to as mages should haste themselves in the hopes of being able to cast more spells than their opponent) AS YOU CAN'T THIS THREAD IS FLAWED. INSTEAD I WOULD SUGGEST GETTING HEX AS THAT WOULD BOOST THE DAMAGE SIGNIFICANTLY AS COMBATS WHERE YOU ARE NOT USING HASTE OR SB YOU WOULD BE ADDING UP TO 6DPR. INSTEAD IF BOUNTIFUL LUCK TAKE MAGIC INITIATE INSTEAD MAYBE AND GET HEX, MINOR ILLUSION AND SOMETHING ELSE
I'm not sure whether you mentioned it but with haste you can cast booming blade or green flame blade as well as get the bonus attack due to war magic. (4*(1d8+7)+(1d8+7+2d8+(3d8 about 50% of the time)))=~72 *0.6 = 43.2 compared to about 20.7 for the 3 attacks on their own. More than doubles you overall damage on turns 2+ and on turn 1 you still do 19.2 damage as casting haste with you action would affect your 2nd action so you could still cast booming blade.
You say haste isn't mandatory but it helps you deal stupid amounts of damage in that one fight and allows you to use shadow blade in less important fights so you are getting a big increase to damage in multiple fights per day (hopefully you have a wizard who can cast haste on you earlier on as it makes this build stupid good)
Further to this it increases you average damage per combat to 132 (assuming 8 combats per long rest with 1 short rest and action surge used with shadow blade) compared to 121.05. Or the dpr is 33 compared to 30 which is still a substantial jump in my opinion when compared to the baseline of 25.2. Without up casting shadow blade 28.0125
Assumptions: all 3rd level spell slots used on haste and all 2nd level spell slots used on shadow blade, one per combat, no time to prepare, no critical hits, no advantage, can get greenflame blade bonus 50% of the time.
AVG damage with no shadow blade is 25.8 for green flame blade +BA attack. 20.7 for 3 attacks
With Shadow Blade and greenflame blade 31.2, 3 attacks 28.8 (no upcast total 896.4) = 28.0125
Upcast shadow blade 36.9 damage per round (total over long rest is 968.4) = 30.2625
Haste with greenflame blade is 46.5 bb is 43.95 both used half the time, first round is 6.9 dpr less than the last 3. (total per long rest is 1056.25) = 33dpr
And if your party supports you with haste when you have shadow blade up (only 2nd level) is 60dpr. (total 1381) = 43.16 dpr over the course of a long rest
Conclusion dpr with shadow blade plus haste is 43 (requires party support)
Dpr with haste 33
Dpr with upcast shadow blade 30
Dpr without upcast shadow blade 28
Over the course of 8 fights.
Due to resilient(wis) he can go ghostwalker ranger to boost opening round damage and for Hunters Mark which would significantly increase damage but I don't know how it compares to getting the extra attack as a fighter. Edit: Hunters Mark doesn't work as it is con but it would boost dpr without shadow blade or haste and getting the bonus 16.5*0.6 on the first turn is not nothing and becomes more powerful if you have shadow blade on as it becomes 21*0.6 damage.
8 combats a day?? Wow.
(I know 6-8 are officially suggested, but I have never played in a game with that many combats per day.)
Play a fairy with a lance. D12 damage, reach on a flying small creature.
Nice vid chris but can this work without booming blade and green flame blade? my dm only allows AL-legal builds so xanathar and sword coast doesnt work. Have to pick only one extra sourcebook.
Also i think it would've been nice if this was a multiclass build. I would've skipped bountiful luck and picked lucky, martial adept, magic initiate or alert.
it won't do this much damage, no
Why do you have to have Xanathar’s?
@@keeganmbg6999 shadow blade
12:23
@@keeganmbg6999 Also Absorb Elements requires either Xanathar or Elemental Evil
Such a shame that Booming Blade and Shadow Blade dont work together anymore :(
You still can according to Jeremy Crawford. The new ruling wasn't supposed to prevent that specific combo.
I'm not a fan of Booming Blade as... why would they move? Generally you end up wailing on each other with neither moving as neither wants to give up an action to disengage nor provoke an Opportunity Attack and there's little value in rotating around each other. A Goblin EK could combine Booming Blade with the racial ability Nimble Escape to make hit and run attacks but if an ally gets close to that enemy then they won't be moving just to avoid the OA and the attacks will be focused on my ally, I want them to hit me as I've got Shield!
When I get War Magic at level 7 I can't combine the Bonus Action disengage with the Bonus Action attack. I'd much rather use War Caster to combine Blade Ward with a weapon attack and try to aggro, I can even blade ward and use a ranged attack
Other cantrips offer very stiff competition like Message which is so useful in situations where you're trying to use stealth and Minor Illusion is so good to use in new and unique ways.
They might move to kill your wizard after he disables all of their companions.
@@lord6617 Too niche, all the frontline combatants would have to be dead. I want them to chase after the wizard who can then cast invisibility then sneak back around to pour a healing potion in my mouth.
@@Treblaine er, what? Also, for the EK, they literally lose nothing for using it and just gain free damage. at level 5 the base hit does 1d8 extra damage, its part of an attack, and their level 7 ability gives you a free attack on cantrip casting... so you are just getting base +1d8 damage on one of your 2 attacks, as opposed to 2 vanilla attacks. And if they move they take an extra 2d8 as a bonus. And some of the damage is magical. aaaaand if you've taken warcaster, you can cast it as an opportunity attack.
@@lord6617 You have to give up one of your cantrip slots. There's a lot of good wizard cantrips and you can only pick 2.
And here's the annoying part, you'd need to pick Booming Blade at level 3 but couldn't combine it with a melee attack until level 7 where you get War Magic. Or you wait until level 10 where you can get a third cantrip.
Until then you can quite easily end up casting booming blade and not getting the extra 1d8 because you can't safely move away from them so they have no reason to move towards you.
@@Treblaine There is a 2 level gap where you don't always cast it. Who cares. Its still situationally useful during those 2 levels, especially if you've taken warcaster. If you don't value it then you don't take it, which is also perfectly valid. Its fine to not personally value a spell or cantrip, while still acknowledging that it has its place.
Who does 8 combats a day? How many of them have any value or significance to the campaign, character arcs and plots? That must be for hack and slash dungeons only, remarkable that people can play 8 combats a day, it's like playing the video game Gauntlet.
Depends on campaign. I've done games with 6-7 combat encounters a day and 0 encounters a day. Both are their own fun. Just gotta know what you're getting into from session 1 to build for it.
I'd really like to see your "base" videos use AL restrictions, with non-AL seen as "extras". The cherry-picking from three-four sources is probably exactly why AL has PHB +1 to help with game balance. Sure, it's much easier to make something broken/optimised when you can use EVERYTHING, it's a much harder skill (one I'd like to see you focus on more) to be able to create the most optimised LEGAL character.
I would say there are MANY of your viewers who see the title of a video and go, "Ooh, I'd like to play one of those, how can I make it survivable/optimised" and then switch off after a minute when they realise that they can't actually USE that build in their AL games.
SUMMARY:
- AL as "base"
- Multiple source books as "extras". e.g. "If your DM allows, you could take X instead of Y".
Those who don't care about AL can get the videos they know and love via the "extras" content.
Those who DO care about AL get a video that they can actually USE.
While I enjoyed all your Wizard videos I find this one bad. You have made an assumption about a very high level of secondary damage in order to make it more effective than a second attack.
50% is always what I've used for secondary damage on GFB/BB
Why not a longsword
This build uses Dexterity instead of Strength, and a Longsword doesn't have the finesse property. This means you can't use your Dexterity fo attack with a Longsword. This puts you at a big disadvantage
shame EK from PHB relies on 2 post published books to be viable.
8 combats and 1 short rest? warlocks must hate you if/when you dm. No wonder you hate monks and other short rest classes, you never let them short rest. Of course they run out of resources.
He likes to use the "worst case scenario" for his baseline calculations.
It does make short rest hungry builds seem worse, but he'll gladly admit that that is because of his calculations and that in actual play outside of these scenarios, they'll perform better