US Versus UK: Who Does It Better?
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 15 มิ.ย. 2024
- With the possible exception of Italy, no two countries have dominated Rock Music (and Prog Rock specifically) so thoroughly as the US and the UK. So who does it better? Andy Ewards and Jim Newstead are here for Britain and me and Scott Davis plumb for the American side!!!
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Thanks so much for having me on Scot. As ever, a brilliant and entertaining episode, that was a lot of fun to be part of.
It was fun, eh??
Hey Jim! Great seeing you on the
Sunday Progstream. You and Scot definitely need to do more collaborations. Awesome together!!!👍😎
@@mythoflogic you sound like a Canuck eh!
The UK played, and America listened.
Yeah…
UK rules har-roch, heavy-rock, prog rock. All the BIG BANDS are British:
Classic rock: Rolling Stones
Hard: Deep Purple, Led Zeppelin
America also has some other amazing prog adjacent groups: The Red Krayola, The Residents, Pere Ubu, Devo, Talking Heads…
An amazing collection of bands here
Scot and Andy need their own show together!
Yeah!!!👍
@@TheProgCorner I think the four person stream I think is much better as long as everyone is able to be conversational!
The Scot 'n' 'Andy Show!
I think that’s the ticket…
I played this going to bed. I fell asleep halfway through. You entered my dreams. I was In a record store flipping through the best record's. You guys were in a corner. You were in my dreams man!!
Should I be worried?
@@TheProgCorner I thought I should be.
Scott, Jim and Andy . . . . It's great you took time out to talk to the Yank!
What happened is that Britain had a tea shortage in the late sixties. And they're like, "What we gonna do?" So they made prog!
That explains everything!!!!
You realize I'm a Yank as well, right??
@@mythoflogicOh, sure! Me, too!
That was a great panel this week... utter chaos, but that's part of the fun! 😁
That was the idea!!!!
Classic North American Prog Bands: The Doors, Frank Zappa, The Beers, Kansas, The Velvet Underground, Lou Reed, Star Castle, Rush, Triumph, The Guess Who, Styx, me solo, Wilco, Jimi Hendrix, Iron Butterfly, Jefferson Airplane/Starship, Gypsy, my neighbor Devon Allman & his dad's band The Allman Brothers, Grateful Dead, Wedgepiece, Chicago, Zappa Plays Zappa, Talking Heads, Zebra, Bob Dylan, Chilliwack , Pavlov's Dog, JD Blackfoot, Metallica, REM, Violent Femmes, Alice Cooper etc.
I saw what you did there.
We all knew what the consensus would be. It was fun though...which is the goal
A memorable episode today, Scot ! And as expected, very amusing. Everyone brought up some great points from both sides. I’m glad someone mentioned Vanilla Fudge as a significant influence. Without a doubt they were, mainly because of Mark Stein and his fabulous, distinguished organ play. But I’m like most in that, UK ultimately wins the prize. And I’ll always be eternally grateful to them for Yes, Genesis and Pink Floyd. That said, KANSAS STILL RULES !!! 🇺🇸 😃
Nice comment!👍😎
Thanks, Jeff !
@@stevecowder4774 My pleasure. 👍😎
Good to see Andy. Love his stuff if it isn't too jazzbo for me. He's great.
Let's get the topic out of the way. The British by far..'nuff said.
I really enjoy the way the conversation evolves. I particularly enjoyed the chatters discussing AI.
As well as all that Frank chat. It seems that I'm not the only obsessive out there.
Anyways it's going to be my usual platitudes (blah, blah, blah) about how wonderful it all is.
I would hate to bore you Scot so I'll spare you.
Just keep it up and you'll find out what happens.
As you may suspect it seems to me that 4 is a better number than 6 just in the way it flows.
It gives enough room for people to expand on their insights and so on.
Have a great day Scot and we'll see you tomorrow.
Yeah, I think four might be the way to go!!! That was a great episode.
Andy and Scot! Together they played guitar for Sweet. Andy this camera is very complimentary!
Andy looks good on my channel!!!
It's a good-looking channel!!!
Great discussion.
Thanks!
I had such a great time yesterday. Thanks to Scot, Jim and Andy. I'd like to point out something I forgot to mention. The Mellotron would not have happened without the Chamberlin developed and patented by the American inventor Harry Chamberlin from 1949 to 1956. In 1962 his window cleaner Bill Franson stole two Chamberlins and took them to the U.K. where they were rebranded and sold without the patent holder's knowledge. That's a pretty important detail in the history of our favorite music...
That’s right!!!
Scott Davie - Myth of logic got it right. The listener is the clear winner as there are GREAT bands from US & UK. The 4 of you were great. I'm ok with earther 4 or 6 panel show.
Thank you!!!
I have been really getting into VDGG and Peter Hammill lately and thought the same thing regarding the similarity to Bruce Dickinson’s vocal inflections and theatricality. So cool that Andy mentioned that!
I definitely hear it in Bruce’s delivery!!!!👍👍👍
Thanks for another excellent Sunday Show! The "click-bait" worked, it seemed. But seriously, it was a great show, and I particularly liked the chat that came up around AI. One of the things that also came up was a comparison between 4 and 6. I have been watching your Sunday Prog show since the beginning - I think the first one was just you and Wayne - and I think that four members would generally be better than six. It is easier to focus, there is better interaction, and as Scott of Mythologic says, the faces are bigger on the screen. 😎😎❤❤😊😊
I agreed when Jerry brought it up in the chat to me. Things just seemed to flow better and topics stayed on point. 👍😎
I agree!!!
Probably do Six people next week but after that I think I’m going to keep it at Four.
Great panel. Very interesting.
IMO only one winner by much, much, for the best, for the quality, for the quantity, etc: UK
BUT, to conquer Mecca, all the great prog bands had to tour and win over the American public. And so they succeeded and became rich. It is this market that opened the world to them and they expanded.
That’s exactly right!!!
The Prog Battle of Bunker Hill. I think if you guys had thrown in big hitters Toto, which I think you could’ve just about gotten away with…It would have been more of a sweat, even if still not a win.
The USA is the most progressve within the jazz world, while the UK is clearly ahead in the rock world. Just different areas where musicians are able to expand musical boundaries.
Very entertaining stream, we love American prog too!
That’s right!!!
Hey Scot❗️Awesome show❗️❗️Lots of fun❗️❗️❗️Great numbers❗️❗️❗️❗️👍☮️👑🐍😎
Thank you!!!
@@TheProgCornerMy pleasure. Jim was great❗️❗️❗️👍😎
Thanks Jeff!
@@JimNewstead 👍😎
UK rules hard-roch, heavy-rock, prog rock. All the BIG BANDS are British:
Prog: Yes, Pink Floyd, Genesis, ELP, King Crimson
Classic rock: Rolling Stones - Beatles (last four years)
Hard: Deep Purple, Led Zeppelin, AC/DC
Heavy: Sabbath, Iron Maiden, Judas Priest
Basically, it goes like this:
I'm not so interested in eras, or rather, the last 30 years, so what actually matters, in my opinion, is who has lasting power. This doesn't mean bands that are still together. It means who has influence and is talked about.
The UK owns prog. Prog isn't necessarily an American thing. Yes, there are plenty of prog bands from the states, but what the states own is the groundwork for nearly all popular music. Of course several African countries can claim the roots of a lot of genres, but what I'm getting at are all the American jazz, blues, r&b and rock and roll artists from the first half of the 20th century. By the 60s, the UK was ready to emulate all those American heroes and, in the process, took the prog throne. In the states, popular music was about pleasing everyone with pop.
Of course, there were tons of bands that were popular with certain crowds that weren't all people-pleasing pop. While the UK was owning it with prog, the states were either popping out or laying the groundwork for punk.
Great and fun commentary. Do it again ! Hi Andy.
Yes!!!
@@TheProgCorner you caved without firing a shot. Could have hit em with BOC or herb Alpert, Burt Bacharach even. Lol
I’m living in Sweden and I just had a look at all the albums I bought in the seventies and eighties, I started buying albums around-73.
There are very few bands and artists from America in my collection from that time. I never thought of it, but almost all albums are from bands from Europe.
I don’t have an explanation why this is. Did american bands have problems being exposed to the market here? I started buying albums with prog rock almost immediately, because prog was the thing around -73. But with the exception of FZ, it was all about european prog bands. I knew there was a band called Kansas, because some of the members played on Steve Hacketts second album, but I never bothered with them. First time I heard about Rush was in the eighties.
🇸🇪🇸🇪🇸🇪
The first prog in my humble opinion is the Zodiac "cosmic sounds" from 1967.this was a project of Electra in the us.this album influnced the great moody blues for sure
I remember that record.
@@TheProgCorner
It's a concept album about the 12 signs of the zodiac,the second album that contain use of syntisizer,with narration in the style of what the moody blues used in their albums
UK
Awesome video
Thank you!!!
The US definitely had its share in developing prog rock, jazz, avant-garde, I definitely agree that Zappa and Miles Davis had an indescribable influence, especially with the albums Bitches Brew, Uncle Meat, and Hot Rats, whose influences can also be heard on modern albums. In the golden period of prog, no one could touch the UK, but nowadays prog has become everyone's, and it is difficult to determine which country leads in this respect. Norway, Italy, France, Spain, a lot of bands from South America, nowadays it's really beautiful to be a fan of prog rock.
Norway is the king these days!!!!!
@@TheProgCorner I agree, and they are stronger and stronger year by year. Speaking of the US , the new IZZ album is fantastic, like Mr Davis said.
@@TheProgCorner And I must say this is one of the best live streams, loved it.
UK rules prog the same as America rules rock n' roll and R&B.
UK rules har-roch, heavy-rock, prog rock. All the BIG BANDS are British:
Classic rock: Rolling Stones
Hard: Deep Purple, Led Zeppelin
Heavy: Sabbath, Iron Maiden, Judas Priest
Prog: P. Floyd, Genesis, Yes, ELP, J. Tull
@@LuisGarcia-ee2tr Steely Dan, Neil Young, Allman Brothers, Eagles and Blood Sweat and Tears as good as anything UK ever produced.
@@johnbrowne2170 All of them several steps below. Other level.
@@LuisGarcia-ee2tr Neil Young with Crazy Horse would blow the stones totally off stage.
Fantastic stream.
Thank you!!!!
Great episode! But I CAN'T BELIEVE THAT ANDY HATES ITALIAN PROG! WHAT!? Here's my take on the battle of US vs UK prog- I agree with what Scott Davis was saying about the transatlantic war/trade off of musical ideas between the US and UK. Rock music in general started in the US, and then spread over to the UK where the British made it a lot better. I also agree with you that both the US and the UK contributed a lot to the development of prog (I really like your video on the 25 albums that built prog, it's on point!) But when it comes to "Capital P prog", or "Prog purity", that's a UK thing. The true inventor of capital P prog was Billy Ritchie with his band 1-2-3, later known as Clouds (and I first heard about them from you in your videos, thanks for sharing!) Then, The Nice built off of Clouds. Then came King Crimson which defined prog and started a whole prog movement in the UK. Then came Yes, building off of Crimson. Then came Gentle Giant which took prog to a whole new level of complexity. And as far as I know, the only band who took prog to a another level beyond GG was American band Happy the Man. I love all those classic Ameri-prog bands, but they were influenced by the British bands. Same with the Italian bands.
Billy Ritchie invented Prog!!!!!!
Just started playing on it's own... V. entertaining. Scot, I've tried to draw you into the 'what is prog' or the 'capital P' question before but it was sort of glossed over. A good proportion of this episode asked the same questions. Seems the experts have trouble with it as well?
Absolutely!!!! It’s a slippery thing. But in the end, if it sounds like Prog to you then it is Prog. Experts be damned…
Prog is whatever it wants to be. 🙂
Orchestral Pop arrangements by studio bands are a major piece of prog history. The biggest orchestras were in the major studios.
A good point.
One thing that didn't get mentioned was American bands had an easier time durring the late 70s being able to adjust to the new musical landscape then their European counterparts.
Good point!!!
It's a excelent show Scot.We do have american prog. bands no doubt.
Absolutely!!!
@@TheProgCorner ✌
UK is where I get my dreamy rocking music, America is my songwriting music with a beat.
Yeah!!!
@@TheProgCorner Did you get the package?
@@WooBino. My wife just went to the post office and she said there was something there for me…
Germany, France, Italy, Japan or even Sweden would have put up a better fight then the USA when it comes to prog.
Yes, prog stopped being relevant anytime after 1975. And yes, that prime period of prog was British. And British music has a unique sound that comes from British culture. A band like Fairport Convention couldn't come out of the US. A band like XTC couldn't have come out of the US. England, Ireland, Scotland, and Wales have folk music that sounds nothing like American folk music. The Rolling Stones did a great job of aping American roots music, but not too many American bands that can ape uniquely British sounds. Lastly, prog metal isn't prog. Most prog album of the 90s was Radiohead's OK Computer. Indie and post rock of the 00s was also way more progressive than anything labeled prog metal.
very good point questioning how tolerant of progressive music the prog audience is... adds some important context for the Zappa assessment too.
Definitely!!!
It should have been North America vs U.K. & we could have had Rush & such on our side
Exactly.
So as an offshot of that debate.....what about Britain vs Europe? I content that there more interesting events happening on the continent both musically and in society
The Italians might have something to say about this debate!!!
@@TheProgCorner exactly man!
Not really Prog but Prog Adjacent at times, one of the best American bands of all time is my old band, The Beers
Good attempt, Scot, but I think you knew the score was always going to be 9 rounds to 3. Yes, some prog precursors. Yes, most fusion. Yes, most prog metal. Yes, Frank Zappa but you knew all the other stuff was going to keep jabbing you in the face. Most important thing is that we don't have to restrict our listening to one country of origin (or even one genre) so we all win!
It was a hopeless battle…
Yes, you "chaps" have better prog, but we have better teeth. So, I call it a tie.
😁Smile!!🤓
Nice!!!
No mention of American prog GIANTS: Tool?!
Good call.
I mentioned them!
@@JimNewstead my mistake I must’ve missed that
@@paulayers1111 near the beginning, even I talked about modern American prog; Dream Theater, Neal Morse….. Tool.
@@JimNewsteadJim loves Tool! He did a great episode on a concert he attended!!!👍😎
Andy thinks Star Castle is from Canada LOL They are from St Louis as am I lol
That was great!!!!
Just like punk i think prog is essentially an English subgenre
Is there an American prog ? I have never heard any ?
Check out John Zorn and tzadik records. He’s a musician composer label owner club owner. Has hundreds of different albums out.
He’s a madman!!!
Scot... am I the only one who can't get this to play?
Try logging off completely and then log back in to TH-cam. 👍😎
Thanks Jeff!!!
@@TheProgCorner 👍😎
Thanks Jeff, It just came back on of it's own accord.
@@grahamharley4895 Cool!👍😎
UK win easily… no comparison
The best US prog bands have UK roots.
I know.
Yeah Dream Theatre with the Canuck singer. Lol. Pet Sounds one of the most overrated albums eva ,I own it. It's not ground breaking .Chicago, how about Lighthouse ? I'll give you Frank though and no he doesn't trump everything. UK still wins. What are Brits, but use to be Germans anyways and what are Yanks but use to be Brits? Lucky for the Yanks the Brits were kinda busy with France.Also lucky fer the Yanks, we Canucks ran outta beer and went back home after burning yer capital. It's Zed not Z. Now I'm going to listen to Devin Townsend overhee. Good day eh! How's that fer stirring the pot? Lol. Fun show.
Canadians…
Oh my….. I have a VERY soft spot for Devin.
Is this Andy Edwards... stupid? Algorithm 'muzak' good? Maybe get a better understanding of what is actually good, what you actually like, instead of just accepting things that have cheap 'immediacy'.
👍👍👍