The terrible reporting around EVs, motivated by politics rather than facts, is a prime example of why so many no longer trust legacy media. Keep up the great work.,
@@stefan2796 At the moment both. In a few years legacy only Some use cases like long haul flights will p stick around for a few more decades but even those might one day disappear if battery energy densities get high enough. The computer has come a long way from vacuum tubes. If you back a couple of hundred years our technology would seem like magic compared them. Those that bet against technological innovation will usually lose the bet.
@@stefan2796 Both for now. It also depends how you are defining mainstream media. If you are defining it purely as big media companies there will continue to be big media companies moving forward.. In terms of big media companies of today whose form of "journalism" is manipulatively stitching their politics into stories, their income from journalism has been steadly declining and will continue to do so. The Internet has made many far more aware of the political tampering going on in reporting. There are new breed of journalism companies that focus on this issue (ground news) but a secondary problem also exists. Many consumers suffer from confirmation bias. They trust Foxnews because it is rightwing. Or trust CNN because it is left. They can see the bias in reporting in the other team's media but not their own. The best news source for those looking for real objectivity, read sources with competing political, economic, and national interests.. Between the bull-sht they all peddle you can also corroborate facts and hear evidence each side omits because it doesn't fit into their political narrative on an issue.
LOL - Fisker sales are skyrocketing? You know, "Fisker, the electric vehicle (EV) maker, filed for Chapter 11 bankruptcy protection in June 2024" and are liquidating their cars 40% off their crappy EVs like the Ocean. "Fisker slashed prices on its 2023 Ocean electric SUV by up to 39% in March 2024 to help jump-start sales and keep the company afloat:"
September 19, Reuters EU car sales at 3-year low in August, EV sales plunge 44% Sales of fully electric cars slumped 43.9% in August, as the bloc's biggest EV markets Germany and France recorded drops of 68.8% and 33.1% respectively, ACEA said. Sales at EV maker Tesla fell 43.2% in August, and those for China's SAIC Motor were down 27.5%.
Fisker is a bad example. They had high sales because they liquidated their cars at fire sale prices for a huge loss in failed last ditch effort to save the company from bankrupcy.
The concern in America is not that EV sales are declining, as you say they aren't, it is that they are way below what automakers had assumed when putting together their capacity pans so they have over invested sooner than needed. They got way ahead of their skis.
Or, get this, they under invested and waited too long. China's invested over 500 billion into EVs. Now they're pumping out far cheaper EVs that are rapidly improving. Are we gonna compete, or shall we cry that EVs are moving too fast and let China eclipse us?
The Yanks are an interesting bunch. 45% of them also think an Orange pathological liar and convict with a room temp IQ is the best man to represent them. Sadly I can only agree.
The winners are going to win, the losers are going to lose. That happens in all market disruptions. Or maybe you still have a Blackberry, Nokia, or Microsoft smartphone...
The slower EV adoption rate in the US and Europe has nothing to do with some sort of intrinsic resistance to EVs, but everything to do with limited, reasonably priced, good quality choices. Chinese customers have an incredible array of options and their adoption rate is over 50%. If European and US customers had the same choices available to them BEVs would be equally dominant.
Nailed it. We're really keen to get an EV, however, the technology is evolving so quickly that we're holding out for greater choice, better tech and better bang for buck. If others are thinking the same, that's a slump. 🙃 And actually, lots of people are choosing hybrids as a middle step. That'll fall over before too long I reckon. (Then, of course, the economic crisis so many people are in will be putting a dent in it.)
Monthly EV sales in China have just hit fifty five percent. The new models coming out are amazing! The ZEEKR 007 and the Xioami SU7, for example, have fantastic range and charging capacity
@@laflammrYeah and similar impressive stats for 5.5 million population Norway but whatever. China has medium sized cities with more people than that 😂
This Sam Guy sure likes throwing random numbers around . I think he pulled them out of Thin Air. .. But he sure as a good editing program to make it look good
We have a local economists on TH-cam here in Australia Leithvo claiming EV sales are in decline and are complete rubbish and will not survive also Leithvo says hybrid are far superior which is misleading and incorrect
BMW sedans are like half the price of a Lucid. I could absolutely see the i4 or i5 being the car that gets fans of German ICE sport-sedans to take the EV plunge. I can see why many think they have some car character that Teslas lack.
Tesla has a system in place after years of R&D, the big boys are barely getting in the game. But EVs are getting better, there’s no stopping the trend. The media is full of it. Follow the money I say.
@@markmiller8903Let me guess, you don’t believe burning fossil fuels is warming the planet. Well they are and oil is a limited resource. My next car will be an EV and solar panels.
VW need to ask their customers what they do and don't like about their vehicles, and what other cars they are seriously considering. I doubt if they will, because they don't actually want to hear the answers.
I am surprised that you are criticising the BMW i4. It is a great car. Here in the UK, it is very popular. The eDrive40 has a realistic range of over 300 miles. It is well built, feels classy and drives beautifully.
To be honest, I think electric Viking is interested in electryfying the carpool at large, and BMW is not and never was interested in the mass-market and changing things in society at large. They are more like a niche product that won't change much at the end of the day. I think he does support BMW trying out electric and developing it further,but thinks they are too slow and uninterested in EVs at the end of the day. And ofc now they are going into Hydrogen again... BMW as a company is not truly interested in EVs. That said the BMW i4 might be good. It probably is. But it is not what many of us are interested in, the mass market car that has the potential to change society's driving habits. Elon is much more in this game along with the chinese.
@@TheLordexilius in 2023, 15% of BMW’s sales were BEVs. In the first half of 2024, they were up by 34%. They are advertising their Neue Klasse (New Class) EV architecture, which is coming out in 2025. It will reduce weight, increase charging speed and increase range by about 30%. They already have far more EV models than Tesla - i4, i5, i7 saloons, iX1, iX2, iX3 SUVs and iX luxury SUV. I agree that they are expensive. I share your surprise that BMW are investing in hydrogen cars. Maybe they don’t want to take the risk that hydrogen takes off and leaves them behind.
@@janh-r8h yes, I agree that Tesla gives you more for your money. However, BMWs have better build quality and feel more classy. It depends on whether you are prepared to pay for it. I bought a used i4 instead of a new Tesla Model 3 for that reason.
VW EVs are too expensive for low/mid range cars. The double whammy of EV price premium AND German car premium is not attractive to consumers other than fanboi type that obsess over a particular company,
I know ICE Sales is way, way up in the States. Dealers are scrambling to order new Gas Cars . One thing we do see here Is a fast decline of EVs and Investors. Many used EVs on lots , and Dealers are Not accepting EVs at this time . Can't sell .
Early adopters are getting hammered with enormous depreciation. This happens with all new tech that's evolving rapidly. We're just not used to this happening in the Car market. It will eventually settle down, it's early days. In the meantime, there are some great bargains to be had in the second hand market.
In the United States, internal combustion engine (ICE) car sales have been declining while electric vehicle (EV) sales have been growing... Q2 2024 EV sales increased by 11.3% year-over-year, while ICE sales decreased by 2%. Q1 2024 EV sales increased by 13% year-over-year, while ICE sales decreased by 4.6%. 2024 EV sales increased by 35% year-over-year, while ICE sales decreased by 1%. It is true that dealers don't want to sell EVs, because they make most of their money on vehicle servicing, and EVs don't require much servicing.
Electric Viking, about Ford EVs and cost, you should understand the economics. Just because you’ve read that Ford loses this and this amount per EV they sell, thats not set in stone going forward. They have large fixed costs involved, if they sell more, those fixed cost per vehicle will be reduced and they might be more profitable. Naturally that could be weighed against possible reductions in prices etc. Hope this was helpful.
Actually that’s Tesla’s TTM P/E. The FWD P/E is at 110. EV growth this year is expected to be -4% and the profit margins are about to fall in the single digit. So far in 2024, Tesla EV sales YoY are flat in China 0%, in the US (Model Y sales are down -6% and Model 3 sales are down -25%), in Europe sales are down -18% and in Australia sales are down -30%. We’re going into a global depression where car sales usually drop by 35%-40%. Tesla stock is the worst place to put your money right now. I won’t even talk about the voodoo for the pipe dreamers : unsupervised FSD, robotaxis, robots, etc.
@@rioriggs3568 Oh, that doesn't sound good. Are you trying to tell me that it was silly remortgaging my home and borrowing from family and friends and putting it all into Tesla stock? But Cathy Woods said that it was going to be $3,000 by the end of the year?
If you think they will achieve FSD alone then its a bargain, if you think they wont then it's arguably overpriced. They are the only Western car manufacturer that makes a profit selling EV's. While many companies like VW, Stelantis, Ford and Toyota are closing factories and losing money on every EV sold, Tesla is building new factories and launching cheaper cars that it still makes a profit on.
@@VintageCars Tesla is not building new factories. They’ve cancelled the Mexico plant and the German expansion. BYD is building gigafactories in Brazil, Morocco, Turkey and Hungary. They’re also expected to do the same in Mexico and Spain. Anyone who looks at the data and does a minimum of AI research can figure out that FSD is decades if not centuries from being solved. After 16 years, Tesla barely has 2.5% of the car market and that’s about to go down rapidly now that the Chinese are making equal quality vehicle for a fraction of the price. Tesla already needs government protectionism to survive.
Canadian friend ordered vw id4 two and a half years ago. Got fed up and walked off a Subaru lot with a Solterra a few months ago. Appears VW US operation can't produce.
So you didn't mention the key thing driving these OEM EV sales increases.....Access to Tesla's charging sites started in earnest around July for a couple of these brands. I think Hyundai is the only oddball as they do not yet have access but have fantastic EVs at decent prices. See if going forward others go up in sales as they too are granted Tesla charger access.
I remember a few months ago you said that EVs depreciate much slower than ice cars, despite the available evidence to the contrary. Then eventually when the evidence became overwhelming you had a story that in fact EVs were depreciating much faster than ice cars but this was a good thing. How long before the story about skyrocketing EV sales also falls back to earth with a thud.
My last ice car dropped over 50% in value in the first 3 years. Admittedly a statistically small sample, but it shows that nobody should be projecting the performance of a single model onto an entire market segment. (I bought it used at 3 years old) 😉
Falling battery prices and better car designs resulted in falling used EV prices. They will also propel increasing new EV sales. ICE costs are going to stay the same and hybrids are more expensive than ICE.
I have to wonder how much that reported "loss per unit" is affected by sales growth. Isn't the cost of R&D and tooling factored into those figures? The more one sells, the more one can amortize those costs, reducing the reported losses. Sell enough and those numbers become fully amortized and are no longer a factor in new sales.
Do we know if these cars are REALLY being sold, that is to say do those numbers reflect sales from the OEM to dealers which then sit on their forecourts or are they sales to end users, (even if these end users are lease companies)? We know beyond all shadow of doubt that car companies do this to fudge numbers. If it is phantom sales, remember that those dealers have probably financed those purchases and will be paying interest on them. What that means is they will need to recoup the money and if it's not on the vehicle itself it'll be on spares. If the price of spares goes up, so does insurance for them. All in all it means that these cheap vehicles = increased running costs.
Just taken delivery of a Volkswagen ID7 after ordering it in July, It is absolutely superb, generally had Volvo XC40s and 60s in the past and it’s better than those. Can only assume the software problems in earlier models of the ID range has tarnished the image of Volkswagens EVs but software has been faultless so far, responsive and seems to work. The voice control could be better although I’m comparing it to googles android voice control in my wife’s car which is ridiculously good
@@leemitchell3302 What is excellent on ID7? 😂😂 Looks not very good, is not safe as Tesla is, has much worse software than Tesla has, etc. Is expensive as it cannot be produced in volume.
Can you do a video on the E.V. charging network in Australia. Buying an E.V. is an occasional experience, but charging is more common. So, how is the charging network going here? Be great to get some info on it
@@rugbygirlsdadg September 19, Reuters EU car sales at 3-year low in August, EV sales plunge 44% Sales of fully electric cars slumped 43.9% in August, as the bloc's biggest EV markets Germany and France recorded drops of 68.8% and 33.1% respectively, ACEA said. Sales at EV maker Tesla fell 43.2% in August, and those for China's SAIC Motor were down 27.5%.
In the United States, internal combustion engine (ICE) car sales have been declining while electric vehicle (EV) sales have been growing... Q2 2024 EV sales increased by 11.3% year-over-year, while ICE sales decreased by 2%. Q1 2024 EV sales increased by 13% year-over-year, while ICE sales decreased by 4.6%. 2024 EV sales increased by 35% year-over-year, while ICE sales decreased by 1%. Maybe you mean the growth rate, not the actual sales, is slowing??
The only achilles heal for Tesla besides their over use of the screen for everything including windshield wipers and lights, is their lack of nearby maintenance facilities. Hyundia, Kia Ford, and GM have a big advantage because they have dealerships in every major city in the US which gives EV buyers more assurances if they have to take their EV in for maintenance.
I love how people try to spin this as a good thing. Sales were actually down from the previous year. 1.6 million were sold in the entire 2023 year. Up to August 1 only a little more than 700,000 were sold. I previously put up my researched numbers and my comment was taken down. Sam you’re lying again.
The truth is EV are declining, now you can admit that the president of Toyota ( Akio Toyoda ) you all make fun of to the point he had to step down, was right and had predicted this.
Not in China - but they do make the best EV's in the world. (which is probably why the US Government is putting tariffs on them) By the way, the tariff is a tax to the importer, which is then passed on to the consumer, (causing inflation) and doesn't have any effect on the Chinese manufacturer. Last month EV sales in China hit fifty five percent, The total annual car market is thirty million - so that's a lot of vehicles. Unfortunately, as ever in the US, the oil and gas lobby, will prevent US consumers from experiencing some incredible products -cars that go 500 miles on a single charge, and can add another 150 miles in the time it takes to buy a coffee (5 minutes) And all for around $35,000. Still, the US is only 4% of the world's population - there are plenty of other markets out there to sell to.Check out the ZEEKR 007 and the Xioami SU7 - fantastic cars! The XPeng Mona MO3 kicks off at around $20,000 - the same size as a Tesla Model 3.
How many billions of dollars is New Zealand bleeding away each year to power vehicles? You guys don’t produce your own petrol, so you have to send your wealth overseas to procure it. Seems like you’d be smarter to install solar, insulation, wind, more hydro, tidal, geothermal, etc. and get off foreign petroleum.
@@freeheeler09 NZ is installing more solar and wind, already has a ton of hydro and geothermal. If petrol is required for the few vehicles that absolute need it ~ 20+ years ago NZ installed a successful plant to turn our natural gas into petrol. It was put in moth balls. More expensive than imported petroleum. But when refined imported petrol becomes prohibitively expensive it can easily be made operational again ~ for the little petrol we need. And with our 90% renewable electricity we are ideally situated to convert from ICE to EV vehicles. The number of Tesla's you see on the road today here is a real eye opener. @maumentum is full of 💩! Or is an anti- EV 🤡!
I must have a different understanding of "skyrocket" sales. US SAAR in Aug 2024 was 15.1 mn vehicles. Inventory expanded, incentives were increased, and average transaction price declined. It's no secret many dealerships struggle to move BEVs, and automakers are forced to increase incentives, further adding losses to BEVs sales. And they're sold for compliance and reduction of carbon credits.
The trouble is we don't know if your figures include EVs with an ice engine. You recently started to include them to make the sales figures for EVs look better than they are. Even the figures shown couldn't really be described as 'skyrocketing'.
@@davidbrayshaw3529 Search caredge electric vehicle market share and sales, or at the EIA look for the article "U.S. share of electric and hybrid vehicle sales increased in the second quarter of 2024"
Or more importantly the cost to operate ICE vehicles vs EV. I’m at 30% the cost of what I used to spend to operate ICE vehicles. Fuel is a real expense.
I drive electric vehicles. I kinda like the ID4. Would consider it. But lack of vehicle to load is a showstopper for me. So my next vehicle will probably be Kia or Hyundai. Also lose the piano black interior, get 4 buttons for the windows, and improve DC fast charging curve.
In a way, having sales increase gradually can be better because it is hard to expand the charging infrastructure at say 30 or 40% a year. So in this way the increase in sales can closely parallel the increase in charging infrastructure.
30-40% a year? Of what ? Electric cars are for in town short runs. What's the global percent of electric cars? In 2050? Max 20%. Electric trucks in 2050?
@@stoicapetruliviu8840 you need to expand your attention to what's going on with the technology, it's progressing way faster than you are imagining it to be doing
@@stoicapetruliviu8840 Second cars, commuters, garage owners are obvious markets for EVs. It will take years to get beyond those, and by that time chargers will be everywhere. But I think your time scale is too pessimistic. Disruption has a mind of its own and the S curve is starting to pick up speed.
Viking is censoring me over remarks I made over him promoting Cyber Truck.Look up any Tech Engineer or top end mechanic and they will tell you Cyber Truck is a Design and Safety Failure.Viking is not an Engineer or a mechanic and is an Australian Blogger who reads all the information on the net and repeats it.He has told every one for the last five years Toyota is going broke which means he just puts his own spin on his blogs as it is not true.I want to see if he is going to censor my comments or let the viewers decide.There is two sides to every story.
@beatonthedonisactually no. In all of 2023 1.6 million EVs were sold in the US. Between January 1 and august 1 of this year only 713,000 EVs were sold. So yes, EV sales have fallen and there is no way 1 million EVs will be sold between august 2 and December 31 of this year.
Tesla will gradually take over Toyota and VW sales. Why buy a BMW? They have great build quality & service and a dealership in every part of the world and build engaging vehicles. Not everyone can afford to have both an appliance car and a fun car. To borrow Doug DeMuro's comment "It's totally fine to have a boring anonymous self-driving car to drive to work every day while you have cool stuff in your garage to take out on the weekends". Source Video: New 2024 Tesla Model 3 Review: The Greatest Appliance Ever Made
The US saw 599,694 EV registered in the first half of 2024, growing 7.4% YoY and achieving a 7.5% market share. Last year, the US ended up growing 62.1% over 2022, and reached a 7.67% market share, so there is a slowing down in the growth rate (not overall sales), and slightly in market share. In the US the best-selling EVs in H1 2024 were: 1. Tesla Model Y: 198,030 2. Tesla Model 3: 73,552 3. Ford Mustang Mach-E 22,234 (last year, Chevy Bolt took the #3 spot, now it’s 18th)
Aren’t those all from firesale of companies ditching the pure-ev market. Like Mercobenz, Volvo, Stellantis… The same way Nissan Versa and Mitsubishi Mirage hatch were almost “buy one get one free” For the price of a lawn ornament i’d buy an EV too… they make good golf carts after all…
People are buying hybrids because they're timid and scared of pure EVs but know gas is on the way out. They'll soon be tired of going to the gas station and to the dealer for service. I don't think the golf course would appreciate you driving an EV at 60 MPH all over but it would be fun and comfortable.
Went to men’s ev test day in st Ives Sydney today Spoke to the XPeng guys and drove one. Great car I mentioned Electric Viking to them and they said you’re getting an XPeng 5 weeks earlier than the public because you’re in the media So had a good test of many cars Fun event
@@jamesvandamme7786 huge taxes on imported EVs is I guess meant to help the US automakers but in practicing shielding them from proper competition is likely to have the effect of keeping us behind China in this particular tech
Also, you forgot to announce the daily new revolutionary battery technology who will change the world as soon as they can get the toddler who drew the formula with crayon to explain his doodlings…
Wrong. Nobody wants to suffer the catastrophic depreciation that is currently associated with the huge year on year improvements of new EVs. If people kept their cars for the full life of them, they would get the maximum value out of their purchase. However, the folk who like to buy new cars, aren't those type of people.
@@Guvament_bs ICE = internal combustion engine only. HEV = hybrid (engine + electric motor and battery). PHEV = hybrid with 'plug in' charging. BEV = electric motor + battery only. In the US, ICE sales percentage is declining while BEV and HEV are increasing. www.eia.gov/todayinenergy/detail.php?id=62924
Polestar will be selling more since they are or have finished their manufacturing plant here in America. When the model y refresh comes out more sales will come. I wish we had more EV choices here like Xpeng and Zeeker
What a nasty thing to say about the greatest living engineer of our times, perhaps of all time! Open your mind you are thinking inside a very small box. If that's possible.
The best solar company in Australia just installed my new solar system.
Check them out here: www.resinc.com.au/electricviking
The terrible reporting around EVs, motivated by politics rather than facts, is a prime example of why so many no longer trust legacy media. Keep up the great work.,
@@mydogsbutler "legacy" or "mainstream"?
@@stefan2796 At the moment both. In a few years legacy only
Some use cases like long haul flights will p stick around for a few more decades but even those might one day disappear if battery energy densities get high enough.
The computer has come a long way from vacuum tubes. If you back a couple of hundred years our technology would seem like magic compared them. Those that bet against technological innovation will usually lose the bet.
@@stefan2796
Both for now. It also depends how you are defining mainstream media. If you are defining it purely as big media companies there will continue to be big media companies moving forward..
In terms of big media companies of today whose form of "journalism" is manipulatively stitching their politics into stories, their income from journalism has been steadly declining and will continue to do so.
The Internet has made many far more aware of the political tampering going on in reporting. There are new breed of journalism companies that focus on this issue (ground news) but a secondary problem also exists. Many consumers suffer from confirmation bias. They trust Foxnews because it is rightwing. Or trust CNN because it is left. They can see the bias in reporting in the other team's media but not their own.
The best news source for those looking for real objectivity, read sources with competing political, economic, and national interests.. Between the bull-sht they all peddle you can also corroborate facts and hear evidence each side omits because it doesn't fit into their political narrative on an issue.
@@stefan2796 Both for now but any "news' organization peddling their politics under the veneer of objectivity continue to see descreasing marketshare.
LOL - Fisker sales are skyrocketing? You know, "Fisker, the electric vehicle (EV) maker, filed for Chapter 11 bankruptcy protection in June 2024" and are liquidating their cars 40% off their crappy EVs like the Ocean. "Fisker slashed prices on its 2023 Ocean electric SUV by up to 39% in March 2024 to help jump-start sales and keep the company afloat:"
September 19, Reuters EU car sales at 3-year low in August, EV sales plunge 44%
Sales of fully electric cars slumped 43.9% in August, as the bloc's biggest EV markets Germany and France recorded drops of 68.8% and 33.1% respectively, ACEA said.
Sales at EV maker Tesla fell 43.2% in August, and those for China's SAIC Motor were down 27.5%.
Fisker is a bad example. They had high sales because they liquidated their cars at fire sale prices for a huge loss in failed last ditch effort to save the company from bankrupcy.
Always good info but I’d go with fewer quick cuts of random file footage, and leaving the tables with stats up longer so we could read them
100% agree
The concern in America is not that EV sales are declining, as you say they aren't, it is that they are way below what automakers had assumed when putting together their capacity pans so they have over invested sooner than needed. They got way ahead of their skis.
That will change when (IF) they make reasonably priced and sized ones.
Or, get this, they under invested and waited too long.
China's invested over 500 billion into EVs. Now they're pumping out far cheaper EVs that are rapidly improving.
Are we gonna compete, or shall we cry that EVs are moving too fast and let China eclipse us?
The Yanks are an interesting bunch. 45% of them also think an Orange pathological liar and convict with a room temp IQ is the best man to represent them. Sadly I can only agree.
US and Europe are so low. Tell me about China to cheer me up.
The increase in EV sales explains why all manufacturers are stopping production and going bankrupt, right?
How do you explain the rise in registrations then? Just saying...
The winners are going to win, the losers are going to lose. That happens in all market disruptions. Or maybe you still have a Blackberry, Nokia, or Microsoft smartphone...
that is absolutely false
The Lucid sales for a lot less than production costs
@@krakken-intelligent commet
The slower EV adoption rate in the US and Europe has nothing to do with some sort of intrinsic resistance to EVs, but everything to do with limited, reasonably priced, good quality choices. Chinese customers have an incredible array of options and their adoption rate is over 50%. If European and US customers had the same choices available to them BEVs would be equally dominant.
Nailed it. We're really keen to get an EV, however, the technology is evolving so quickly that we're holding out for greater choice, better tech and better bang for buck. If others are thinking the same, that's a slump. 🙃
And actually, lots of people are choosing hybrids as a middle step. That'll fall over before too long I reckon.
(Then, of course, the economic crisis so many people are in will be putting a dent in it.)
Monthly EV sales in China have just hit fifty five percent. The new models coming out are amazing! The ZEEKR 007 and the Xioami SU7, for example, have fantastic range and charging capacity
90% in Finland
@@laflammrYeah and similar impressive stats for 5.5 million population Norway but whatever. China has medium sized cities with more people than that 😂
This Sam Guy sure likes throwing random numbers around . I think he pulled them out of Thin Air. .. But he sure as a good editing program to make it look good
Key phrase there “ I thnk “ js
Does thinking something make it true?
85% of uk citizens surveyed say no to buying them … but yea its fine
Yet over 17% actually buy them as of last month😊
Numbers don't match
@@alarjak Most sales are on business lease contracts. For most people EVs are still too expensive. And they think charging is too much hassle.
British right-wing media is full of lies about EVs, you can't believe a word they say.
We have a local economists on TH-cam here in Australia Leithvo claiming EV sales are in decline and are complete rubbish and will not survive also Leithvo says hybrid are far superior which is misleading and incorrect
I have made comments on his channel however I am grossly out number by the misinformed
❤
Hybrids are far superior and the vehicle of choice by the masses
@@kevinW826 Hybrids are just stupid, and will disappear very soon.
@@kevinW826I think you'll find that "the masses" are usually uninformed and so wrong.
BMW sedans are like half the price of a Lucid. I could absolutely see the i4 or i5 being the car that gets fans of German ICE sport-sedans to take the EV plunge. I can see why many think they have some car character that Teslas lack.
Tesla has a system in place after years of R&D, the big boys are barely getting in the game. But EVs are getting better, there’s no stopping the trend. The media is full of it. Follow the money I say.
💯💯💯💯💯💯💯
NO!! PEOPLE DONT' WANT EVS OR PANELS.
You don’t want it, others do. Next.
@@markmiller8903Let me guess, you don’t believe burning fossil fuels is warming the planet. Well they are and oil is a limited resource. My next car will be an EV and solar panels.
@@markmiller8903 Stop yelling! It makes you look weak and ignorant.
VW need to ask their customers what they do and don't like about their vehicles, and what other cars they are seriously considering. I doubt if they will, because they don't actually want to hear the answers.
The ID7 is the first proper EV by VW, but it's too expensive for most people.
Dream on
I am surprised that you are criticising the BMW i4. It is a great car. Here in the UK, it is very popular. The eDrive40 has a realistic range of over 300 miles. It is well built, feels classy and drives beautifully.
To be honest, I think electric Viking is interested in electryfying the carpool at large, and BMW is not and never was interested in the mass-market and changing things in society at large. They are more like a niche product that won't change much at the end of the day. I think he does support BMW trying out electric and developing it further,but thinks they are too slow and uninterested in EVs at the end of the day. And ofc now they are going into Hydrogen again... BMW as a company is not truly interested in EVs.
That said the BMW i4 might be good. It probably is. But it is not what many of us are interested in, the mass market car that has the potential to change society's driving habits. Elon is much more in this game along with the chinese.
@@TheLordexilius in 2023, 15% of BMW’s sales were BEVs. In the first half of 2024, they were up by 34%.
They are advertising their Neue Klasse (New Class) EV architecture, which is coming out in 2025. It will reduce weight, increase charging speed and increase range by about 30%.
They already have far more EV models than Tesla - i4, i5, i7 saloons, iX1, iX2, iX3 SUVs and iX luxury SUV. I agree that they are expensive.
I share your surprise that BMW are investing in hydrogen cars. Maybe they don’t want to take the risk that hydrogen takes off and leaves them behind.
Tesla is much better value for the money.
@@janh-r8h yes, I agree that Tesla gives you more for your money. However, BMWs have better build quality and feel more classy. It depends on whether you are prepared to pay for it. I bought a used i4 instead of a new Tesla Model 3 for that reason.
@@grahamf695 If innovation (efficiency , safety, FSD, software, etc.) is someone do prefer, than Tesla is no brainer.
VW EVs are too expensive for low/mid range cars. The double whammy of EV price premium AND German car premium is not attractive to consumers other than fanboi type that obsess over a particular company,
I know ICE Sales is way, way up in the States. Dealers are scrambling to order new Gas Cars . One thing we do see here Is a fast decline of EVs and Investors. Many used EVs on lots , and Dealers are Not accepting EVs at this time . Can't sell .
Early adopters are getting hammered with enormous depreciation. This happens with all new tech that's evolving rapidly. We're just not used to this happening in the Car market. It will eventually settle down, it's early days. In the meantime, there are some great bargains to be had in the second hand market.
In the United States, internal combustion engine (ICE) car sales have been declining while electric vehicle (EV) sales have been growing...
Q2 2024 EV sales increased by 11.3% year-over-year, while ICE sales decreased by 2%.
Q1 2024 EV sales increased by 13% year-over-year, while ICE sales decreased by 4.6%.
2024 EV sales increased by 35% year-over-year, while ICE sales decreased by 1%.
It is true that dealers don't want to sell EVs, because they make most of their money on vehicle servicing, and EVs don't require much servicing.
You've got it pretty much exactly backwards, friend.
Why BMW? Nice design, superior driving pleasure and very good semi autonomous driving
Design is terrible
If this country wasn't holding back new technology I would be so inclined to invest into EV's.
The state of Maryland and D.C. are full of EVs and they're not just Tesla but Kia/Hyundai .
In my neck of the woods 90% of EVs are not Tesla.
Ty for ur comment
Electric Viking, about Ford EVs and cost, you should understand the economics. Just because you’ve read that Ford loses this and this amount per EV they sell, thats not set in stone going forward. They have large fixed costs involved, if they sell more, those fixed cost per vehicle will be reduced and they might be more profitable. Naturally that could be weighed against possible reductions in prices etc. Hope this was helpful.
The reduction in battery cost is having a big impact too.
Not even close to that volume yet
if ev are not selling why then is the US adding an import tax of 100% on Chinese EV's
Rich Rebuilds just bought an Ocean...
An Ocean or a Money Pit?
Telsa, a company negotiated at 67x P/E that grows 1,2% YoY. What a bargain!
What is the compound growth in the last 5 years? Macro challenges are not a thing? Home sales aren't down because of high interest? Who knew.
Actually that’s Tesla’s TTM P/E. The FWD P/E is at 110. EV growth this year is expected to be -4% and the profit margins are about to fall in the single digit. So far in 2024, Tesla EV sales YoY are flat in China 0%, in the US (Model Y sales are down -6% and Model 3 sales are down -25%), in Europe sales are down -18% and in Australia sales are down -30%. We’re going into a global depression where car sales usually drop by 35%-40%. Tesla stock is the worst place to put your money right now. I won’t even talk about the voodoo for the pipe dreamers : unsupervised FSD, robotaxis, robots, etc.
@@rioriggs3568 Oh, that doesn't sound good. Are you trying to tell me that it was silly remortgaging my home and borrowing from family and friends and putting it all into Tesla stock? But Cathy Woods said that it was going to be $3,000 by the end of the year?
If you think they will achieve FSD alone then its a bargain, if you think they wont then it's arguably overpriced. They are the only Western car manufacturer that makes a profit selling EV's. While many companies like VW, Stelantis, Ford and Toyota are closing factories and losing money on every EV sold, Tesla is building new factories and launching cheaper cars that it still makes a profit on.
@@VintageCars Tesla is not building new factories. They’ve cancelled the Mexico plant and the German expansion. BYD is building gigafactories in Brazil, Morocco, Turkey and Hungary. They’re also expected to do the same in Mexico and Spain. Anyone who looks at the data and does a minimum of AI research can figure out that FSD is decades if not centuries from being solved. After 16 years, Tesla barely has 2.5% of the car market and that’s about to go down rapidly now that the Chinese are making equal quality vehicle for a fraction of the price. Tesla already needs government protectionism to survive.
Canadian friend ordered vw id4 two and a half years ago. Got fed up and walked off a Subaru lot with a Solterra a few months ago. Appears VW US operation can't produce.
Happened to me with an Audi Q4 - quoted 4 months delivery, then eventually they moved it out to 18 months! Just said no thanks and walked away.
So you didn't mention the key thing driving these OEM EV sales increases.....Access to Tesla's charging sites started in earnest around July for a couple of these brands.
I think Hyundai is the only oddball as they do not yet have access but have fantastic EVs at decent prices.
See if going forward others go up in sales as they too are granted Tesla charger access.
I remember a few months ago you said that EVs depreciate much slower than ice cars, despite the available evidence to the contrary. Then eventually when the evidence became overwhelming you had a story that in fact EVs were depreciating much faster than ice cars but this was a good thing. How long before the story about skyrocketing EV sales also falls back to earth with a thud.
yup its happening
The Amish are still sticking to the belief that cars are a fad. ICE clowns will always be a thing
My last ice car dropped over 50% in value in the first 3 years. Admittedly a statistically small sample, but it shows that nobody should be projecting the performance of a single model onto an entire market segment.
(I bought it used at 3 years old) 😉
Falling battery prices and better car designs resulted in falling used EV prices. They will also propel increasing new EV sales. ICE costs are going to stay the same and hybrids are more expensive than ICE.
whilst i disagree with your EV bias opinion, you obviously love cars, and for that you deserve a sub.
I have to wonder how much that reported "loss per unit" is affected by sales growth. Isn't the cost of R&D and tooling factored into those figures? The more one sells, the more one can amortize those costs, reducing the reported losses. Sell enough and those numbers become fully amortized and are no longer a factor in new sales.
Do we know if these cars are REALLY being sold, that is to say do those numbers reflect sales from the OEM to dealers which then sit on their forecourts or are they sales to end users, (even if these end users are lease companies)? We know beyond all shadow of doubt that car companies do this to fudge numbers.
If it is phantom sales, remember that those dealers have probably financed those purchases and will be paying interest on them. What that means is they will need to recoup the money and if it's not on the vehicle itself it'll be on spares. If the price of spares goes up, so does insurance for them. All in all it means that these cheap vehicles = increased running costs.
Ev sales did not skyrocket in the U.S.
Tesla did
@@alarjak they didn’t
@@JDMSwervo2001 Model Y will be number 1 this year.
@@alarjak not in United States
Just taken delivery of a Volkswagen ID7 after ordering it in July,
It is absolutely superb, generally had Volvo XC40s and 60s in the past and it’s better than those.
Can only assume the software problems in earlier models of the ID range has tarnished the image of Volkswagens EVs but software has been faultless so far, responsive and seems to work.
The voice control could be better although I’m comparing it to googles android voice control in my wife’s car which is ridiculously good
VW who?😂😂😂
@@janh-r8h that’s not very nice
@@leemitchell3302 yes, but current VW ist only doing the business badly.
@@janh-r8h they may be running their business poorly but they’ve still made an excellent product with the ID7
@@leemitchell3302 What is excellent on ID7? 😂😂 Looks not very good, is not safe as Tesla is, has much worse software than Tesla has, etc. Is expensive as it cannot be produced in volume.
Can you do a video on the E.V. charging network in Australia. Buying an E.V. is an occasional experience, but charging is more common. So, how is the charging network going here? Be great to get some info on it
Do you really think Ford and GM are going to still be making ICE cars in 5 years? Why would they?
they will be making ice cars for longer than 5 years
EU EV sales plumets 40%
You have a reliable source for this?
@@rugbygirlsdadg September 19, Reuters EU car sales at 3-year low in August, EV sales plunge 44%
Sales of fully electric cars slumped 43.9% in August, as the bloc's biggest EV markets Germany and France recorded drops of 68.8% and 33.1% respectively, ACEA said.
Sales at EV maker Tesla fell 43.2% in August, and those for China's SAIC Motor were down 27.5%.
Partly due to the removal of subsidies.
In the United States, internal combustion engine (ICE) car sales have been declining while electric vehicle (EV) sales have been growing...
Q2 2024 EV sales increased by 11.3% year-over-year, while ICE sales decreased by 2%.
Q1 2024 EV sales increased by 13% year-over-year, while ICE sales decreased by 4.6%.
2024 EV sales increased by 35% year-over-year, while ICE sales decreased by 1%.
Maybe you mean the growth rate, not the actual sales, is slowing??
@@krakken- I'm not talking about the US. EU = Europe.
How big is your roof solar?
Hyundai down is a surprise. Maybe the ICCU issues?
not sure when Simon gets his info from but by all other metrics EV sales are slowing and dropping.
Just Google it. I did and I posted on here the slow sales and it was promptly taken down
@@kevinW826 As it should be. Cited data is not welcome in this forum. It's fiction or it's nothing!
The only achilles heal for Tesla besides their over use of the screen for everything including windshield wipers and lights, is their lack of nearby maintenance facilities. Hyundia, Kia Ford, and GM have a big advantage because they have dealerships in every major city in the US which gives EV buyers more assurances if they have to take their EV in for maintenance.
Any idea when they will start selling this?
I love how people try to spin this as a good thing. Sales were actually down from the previous year. 1.6 million were sold in the entire 2023 year. Up to August 1 only a little more than 700,000 were sold.
I previously put up my researched numbers and my comment was taken down.
Sam you’re lying again.
We don't do facts here, OK.
are you including sales in china
@@laflammr the video was talking about the US.
@@kevinW826 ok my bad
The truth is EV are declining, now you can admit that the president of Toyota ( Akio Toyoda ) you all make fun of to the point he had to step down, was right and had predicted this.
Not in China - but they do make the best EV's in the world. (which is probably why the US Government is putting tariffs on them) By the way, the tariff is a tax to the importer, which is then passed on to the consumer, (causing inflation) and doesn't have any effect on the Chinese manufacturer. Last month EV sales in China hit fifty five percent, The total annual car market is thirty million - so that's a lot of vehicles. Unfortunately, as ever in the US, the oil and gas lobby, will prevent US consumers from experiencing some incredible products -cars that go 500 miles on a single charge, and can add another 150 miles in the time it takes to buy a coffee (5 minutes) And all for around $35,000. Still, the US is only 4% of the world's population - there are plenty of other markets out there to sell to.Check out the ZEEKR 007 and the Xioami SU7 - fantastic cars! The XPeng Mona MO3 kicks off at around $20,000 - the same size as a Tesla Model 3.
False but keep trying
NZ struggling to power households, so do not know how we transfer over to dominant EV on our roads 😭
Solars + battery would solve this problem soon.
How many billions of dollars is New Zealand bleeding away each year to power vehicles? You guys don’t produce your own petrol, so you have to send your wealth overseas to procure it. Seems like you’d be smarter to install solar, insulation, wind, more hydro, tidal, geothermal, etc. and get off foreign petroleum.
@@marianbiznesu1899yea… soon… like “don’t worry honey the check is in the mail” soon I guess…
I live in the New Zealand's North Island. Never had to "struggle to power my household".
That's just the usual anti-EV nonsense!💩💩💩💩💩
@@freeheeler09 NZ is installing more solar and wind, already has a ton of hydro and geothermal.
If petrol is required for the few vehicles that absolute need it ~ 20+ years ago NZ installed a successful plant to turn our natural gas into petrol.
It was put in moth balls. More expensive than imported petroleum.
But when refined imported petrol becomes prohibitively expensive it can easily be made operational again ~ for the little petrol we need.
And with our 90% renewable electricity we are ideally situated to convert from ICE to EV vehicles.
The number of Tesla's you see on the road today here is a real eye opener.
@maumentum is full of 💩! Or is an anti- EV 🤡!
Love my Atto. Only way to go.
Tesla is much better value for the money.😂
I must have a different understanding of "skyrocket" sales. US SAAR in Aug 2024 was 15.1 mn vehicles. Inventory expanded, incentives were increased, and average transaction price declined. It's no secret many dealerships struggle to move BEVs, and automakers are forced to increase incentives, further adding losses to BEVs sales. And they're sold for compliance and reduction of carbon credits.
They are sold because they are the best vehicles on the market
Lots of dealers overprice EVs and steer buyers away from them. I don't blame them, their service dept's will be hurting.
The trouble is we don't know if your figures include EVs with an ice engine. You recently started to include them to make the sales figures for EVs look better than they are. Even the figures shown couldn't really be described as 'skyrocketing'.
all bs spewed in this channel
US figures do not specify drive train type. The claims made in this presentation can't be substantiated.
@@davidbrayshaw3529 Search caredge electric vehicle market share and sales, or at the EIA look for the article "U.S. share of electric and hybrid vehicle sales increased in the second quarter of 2024"
have you added in the re-sale of older EVs to previous ICE owners??
Or more importantly the cost to operate ICE vehicles vs EV. I’m at 30% the cost of what I used to spend to operate ICE vehicles. Fuel is a real expense.
These new batteries will inadvertently reduce further the resale value of all that's gone before!
These new cars inadvertently reduce further the resale value of all that's gone before!
Don't you see how dumb you sound, Graham?
@@DennisMerwoodDon't you see how dumb you sound Dennis.
Good for us cheapskates who always buy used.
I drive electric vehicles. I kinda like the ID4. Would consider it. But lack of vehicle to load is a showstopper for me. So my next vehicle will probably be Kia or Hyundai. Also lose the piano black interior, get 4 buttons for the windows, and improve DC fast charging curve.
Would never buy VW. Tesla is much better value for the money.❤
@@janh-r8h KIA EV3 is a winner. Tesla is boring. And no stalks on the new M3, which is a big mistake by genius Elon.
@@stefan2796 EV3 looks like a shoe box.😂. Tesla is much safer, more innovative, more fun to drive, and looks much better.
Hi
Are you also making Onvo videos??
In a way, having sales increase gradually can be better because it is hard to expand the charging infrastructure at say 30 or 40% a year. So in this way the increase in sales can closely parallel the increase in charging infrastructure.
30-40% a year? Of what ? Electric cars are for in town short runs. What's the global percent of electric cars? In 2050? Max 20%. Electric trucks in 2050?
@@stoicapetruliviu8840 you need to expand your attention to what's going on with the technology, it's progressing way faster than you are imagining it to be doing
@@stoicapetruliviu8840 Second cars, commuters, garage owners are obvious markets for EVs. It will take years to get beyond those, and by that time chargers will be everywhere. But I think your time scale is too pessimistic. Disruption has a mind of its own and the S curve is starting to pick up speed.
Are all these stats EV only, or EV + hybrid?
EV and plug in hybrid
Stop censoring content you can’t handle the truth
It’s how he gets subscribers. He can’t be honest with the truth.
EV sales are dramatically down in America. The Viking is in denial. lol
Viking is censoring me over remarks I made over him promoting Cyber Truck.Look up any Tech Engineer or top end mechanic and they will tell you Cyber Truck is a Design and Safety Failure.Viking is not an Engineer or a mechanic and is an Australian Blogger who reads all the information on the net and repeats it.He has told every one for the last five years Toyota is going broke which means he just puts his own spin on his blogs as it is not true.I want to see if he is going to censor my comments or let the viewers decide.There is two sides to every story.
@@MrAmharapost the stats then
@beatonthedonisactually no. In all of 2023 1.6 million EVs were sold in the US. Between January 1 and august 1 of this year only 713,000 EVs were sold. So yes, EV sales have fallen and there is no way 1 million EVs will be sold between august 2 and December 31 of this year.
Viking is a Tesla Fan Boy and will censor comments when you are critical of Tesla.
Yep. Mine has been taken down multiple times. Even proof of his lies and evidence to the contrary
You haters are gonna hate...The Viking just bought a Chinese EV! In 5 years, you boys will prolly be driving Chinese EVs yourselves.
@@jamesdaniel947 nope. I in five years I will be driving a Japanese gas suv
Or Xpeng.
Tesla will gradually take over Toyota and VW sales.
Why buy a BMW? They have great build quality & service and a dealership in every part of the world and build engaging vehicles. Not everyone can afford to have both an appliance car and a fun car.
To borrow Doug DeMuro's comment "It's totally fine to have a boring anonymous self-driving car to drive to work every day while you have cool stuff in your garage to take out on the weekends".
Source Video: New 2024 Tesla Model 3 Review: The Greatest Appliance Ever Made
America is still on the gasoline mentality, because gasoline is cheap, powerful engines,
EV sales will continue to climb in america. ICE cars are going the way of the dodo.
not really
No, really.
Hate to break it to you but a lot of Americans don’t want them
Maybe try some Copium? Ok, truth (EV sales are tanking) hurts
The US saw 599,694 EV registered in the first half of 2024, growing 7.4% YoY and achieving
a 7.5% market share.
Last year, the US ended up growing 62.1% over 2022, and reached a 7.67% market share,
so there is a slowing down in the growth rate (not overall sales), and slightly in market
share.
In the US the best-selling EVs in H1 2024 were:
1. Tesla Model Y: 198,030
2. Tesla Model 3: 73,552
3. Ford Mustang Mach-E 22,234
(last year, Chevy Bolt took the #3 spot, now it’s 18th)
👍👍
Aren’t those all from firesale of companies ditching the pure-ev market. Like Mercobenz, Volvo, Stellantis…
The same way Nissan Versa and Mitsubishi Mirage hatch were almost “buy one get one free”
For the price of a lawn ornament i’d buy an EV too… they make good golf carts after all…
No. Gas car sales are declining.
People are buying hybrids because they're timid and scared of pure EVs but know gas is on the way out. They'll soon be tired of going to the gas station and to the dealer for service.
I don't think the golf course would appreciate you driving an EV at 60 MPH all over but it would be fun and comfortable.
Went to men’s ev test day in st Ives Sydney today
Spoke to the XPeng guys and drove
one. Great car
I mentioned Electric Viking to them and they said you’re getting an XPeng 5 weeks earlier than the public because you’re in the media
So had a good test of many cars
Fun event
EV sales is rising no matter what media say. Worldwide.
where are you getting that info from... it seems that statistics show sales are slowing and falling.
@@RoverIACshould only believe in statics which you faked.
Well, it’s not. It’s only in a few markets that is rising, the rest is falling ev sales, big time.
@@fpetren I just asked a question and you replied as a complete jerk... why is that?
The problem is Tesla sales are down this year all over the world and they get 100% of the media’s attention.
But I thought Americans don't love EVs?
ICE sales decreased less in the US than they did in the global market, but they still decreased.
Q2 2024 vs Q2 2023
The herd is slow to react but when it does, get out of the way!
We can't buy cheap ones because Detroit refuses to make them (or can't). Henry Ford would have jumped on that.
@@jamesvandamme7786 huge taxes on imported EVs is I guess meant to help the US automakers but in practicing shielding them from proper competition is likely to have the effect of keeping us behind China in this particular tech
Thank you for helping make it happen!
Also, you forgot to announce the daily new revolutionary battery technology who will change the world as soon as they can get the toddler who drew the formula with crayon to explain his doodlings…
Ev car sales here in europe fell A LOT. NOBODY WANTS THESE OVERPRICED PIECES OF JUNK
Wrong. Nobody wants to suffer the catastrophic depreciation that is currently associated with the huge year on year improvements of new EVs. If people kept their cars for the full life of them, they would get the maximum value out of their purchase. However, the folk who like to buy new cars, aren't those type of people.
Your mother should have told you not to tell lies Sam.
Just got info that TESLA is buying TOYOTA..?? Is there any truth to these info...? I'm kinda skeptical, pls confirm & clarify...
Fisker sales are rocketing as they sell $80k EV's for $20k
Sales went up from 3 to 12 cars y/y, amazing progress!
As usuall Viking is doing hype on EV and not telling the truth. 50 % of owners who bought the EV wants to go back to ICE car 🤪 Good luck.
not me it is my second one and most of my friends also
It's hybrid sales that is skyrocketing.
And it’s ICE sales that are declining
@@SigFigNewtonI thought hybrids had an internal combustion engine. May be I just dreamt it.
@@Guvament_bs ICE = internal combustion engine only. HEV = hybrid (engine + electric motor and battery). PHEV = hybrid with 'plug in' charging. BEV = electric motor + battery only. In the US, ICE sales percentage is declining while BEV and HEV are increasing. www.eia.gov/todayinenergy/detail.php?id=62924
@@Guvament_bs Hybrids are the worst of both worlds, but dealers push them because they make service money.
@@jamesvandamme7786dealers don’t have to push anything. People just know what they want especially Toyotas. Their vehicles sell themselves
الناس في امريكا محرمين من شراء افضل السيارات الكهربائية في العالم
هذا كله بسبب الحكومه الديكتاتورية هناك
دكتاتورية على شكل ديمقراطية
أمريكا ليست حرة
Tesla would have far more sales if Musk weren’t such an overt fascist.
Agreed
Polestar will be selling more since they are or have finished their manufacturing plant here in America. When the model y refresh comes out more sales will come. I wish we had more EV choices here like Xpeng and Zeeker
What a nasty thing to say about the greatest living engineer of our times, perhaps of all time! Open your mind you are thinking inside a very small box. If that's possible.
@@jcfallows all the woke people loved Musk until they found out he believes in free speech.
Take a look at governments around the world. They are the ones acting like Fascist's. They hate Elon musk because he won't bend over for them 🤣
US EV sales SKYROCKET . . . . . . . . . from 7.6% to 8.5% market share, less than a 1% market share increase.
That is 1% more than the media been saying no one wants EV
Clearly you have no experience in corporate strategy. Double digit growth in a highly competitive market is no walk in the park
How old is this video? The US just hit 10% EV adoption sales rate for the first time ever for the month of August, 2024.
It’s still only 7.6% of the market
So big opportunity years ahead.
*Context police*
U.S. EV Market share:
Q3 2023 - 7.9%
Q4 2023 - 8.1%
Q1 2024 - 7.3%
Q2 2024 - 8.0%
Tesla leading sales in the US. What other realistic choices do they have?