Really wish you would have focused on the game more than the theme/art and who you felt would play it. Can't help but feel if you slap a space or "trading in the Mediterranean" theme on there it would do better. Personally speaking I'm not a fan of Root and feel it gets way too much praise for a game that isn't really approachable and is a bear to teach. But hey, it looks cute which is OK for Root but not My Farm Shop?
This is the first time I really have issues with the way Mike judges a game. I can't avoid feeling and thinking that he is really shitting on the game just because how it looks and dismissing the rest.
Looks like a bridge for non gamers to get a taste of the hobby. Also as a gamer I know I am supposed to love Fantasy and Space themed games and I just don't so always happy to see a game not have that theme
I like that it is far less take-that than Machi Koro, the other welcoming dice roll/allocation game. I really liked the feel of this when DT did a playthrough!
I don’t know, looks interesting to me. Actualol recommended it. I like the machi koro mechanism so I’m thinking I’ll pick it up. Agreed the App Store art choice is a little off putting
Looks interesting and doesn’t anyone remember FarmVille? Seems like they were going for that crowd and the Stardew Valley fans. It looks a bit light but I might have to check it out.
Can't look cute and be gamery.....got it. These complaints, subjective of course, are just silly to rate the game so low. The "gamery" rules are very simple to understand. The look is cute, the game can be played as a family game or a gamer game with modules. The engine building is your own choice. Build it bad, that's your fault. Silly, silly, complaints. Automania looks just as silly and much more gamery than this, and never an issue.
I honestly would be more likely to take a risk on this game if I liked the art more, sorry to say. Also the title feels like a half-step away from "Baby's First Farm Game." And yet, with that said, I'd love to try this out. I got the sense that the "Farmer" expansion being universally disliked bodes poorly for the game, but I really do like the main mechanic of roll-three-dice, choose 1 for what card to pick, and the sum of the other two to determine what action is activated. Especially in combination with the little inventory of supplies.. just a lot to like about that, for me. I'm going to cross my fingers for a re-theme with tightened mechanics down the line.
Played it with my wife (a casual gamer), my 7 yo son and 5 yo daughter. My wife enjoyed it, but my kids not so much. As everyone have said, they're overwhelmed by the decisions and ended up let the parents pick for them. So yeah, just stick to the age recommendation (8+) and perhaps your kids can enjoy them.
Mike I appreciate your honesty in this one. I watch the videos because I want to hear the team's opinions and I like that they aren't isn't sugar coated and that the game isn't damned with faint praise. Everyone on the shows should feel comfortable when a game doesn't strike the right chord to voice their opinions. I like how this one brought out differing views. Keep up the good work all of you.
I want to make it clear that I don’t hate the theme. If I avoided games with agricultural themes, I’d be missing out on many spectacular games. I found the gameplay largely lackluster, and that’s the primary reason I scored it the way I did.
@@michaeldilisio557 I get that. But even when Tom said "set the theme aside and look at the mechanics", your point 3 was "AND THE THEME IS TOO SILLY". Even seasoned gamers who want complex experiences don't ALWAYS want to be staring at a grumpy Mediterranean trader.
@@SisyphusX And I totally agree, I love that more perfectly "dry euros" are coming out with more pleasant themes, but I agree with Mike that the game mechanisms just weren't that fun. Theme and everything aside, I still rate it a 6, and Mike rates it a 5. I find it odd he's getting much more grief than Roy or myself.
Sisyphus, Mike is totally entitled to his opinion. If you don’t enjoy hearing opinions that differ from yours, perhaps you shouldn’t watch a channel where people share their opinions of games.
@@ESCTom Ah, opinion. The rhetoric device version of the towel thrown in Frank Drebin's face. You are correct that everyone is entitled to their opinion. You are correct that this website supports freely offering one's opinion. That definition is complete, and says nothing about accuracy. I watch channels to observe their opinions, and weigh them against my own. I then gasp *respond* when I believe my opinion is relevant to a wider audience. Such is the messy life of opinions.
I feel like Mike was overly harsh regarding the artwork vs the gameplay. Normally I am on board with much of his reasoning. Of course, I haven't actually played this game, so what do I know.
Plus I don’t really get the “who is the game for?” line of reasoning. I could care less about what the marketing strategy is. Just focus on and prioritize how fun it is to play.
@@wolflarson71 fair enough. You’re not the only one here who takes issue with that line of inquiry. I did not find the game very fun to play. If it were only my issue with potential marketing confusion, it would not have affected my score that much.
I understand the point of missing all target audiences... Due to the kids app theme the game does not feel like it should have complex decision making.
First time a review from you guys is so wrong!!!! Better than Machikoro, Catan and space base. I get Tom love space base but the others I don't get it a 5 and 6 not recommending this game with an approval that's crazy.
As a 50 year-old gamer who still watches cartoons and likes this kind of stylized art, I do not get why gamers pass up games because of this type of art style.
I would have never played this game based on the "app store" art design but the mechanisms do sound pretty good. I agree with Mike that the look of this game kills it since even if I didn't mind the style, it would be a tough sell to my 30-40 year old gamer friends.
You could bring the game in another box and cover up the front of the manual. The rest of the art is functional. That box art is admittedly an odd decision.
I wonder if this is an example of sophistication inflation. With how prevelent games are now I wonder if manufacturers and game designers feel the need to make "gateway" games more sophisticated. Also this game seems a lot like castles of burgundy.
I don't see that as a bad thing and honestly wonder why it took us so long to get here. Kids are smart these days because of smart phone and tablet usage. I expect to see more of the same in the near future.
I’ve bought it but haven’t played it yet. Looks really fun! I hope to be able to convince my video gaming son to try it out, the cover might actually make it easier 😁😅
The main points of Mike's complaints seemed absolutely bizarre to me. He seemed inordinately offended that the game didnt fit in a conveniently labelled "box". What consumer is that actually a concern for? Who is "the crisis of what kind of game is it" going to be a problem for? Other than reviewers it seems. The sum total of useful criticism from him was "Other games do it better", with no further explanation. "Mentioned many reasons" come on.
Perhaps my tone came across more intense than intended. I can assure you that nothing about the game offends me. The concern that I was trying to express was one of potential confusion for a consumer who might look at the game as one that’s for children, and find a game that’s not necessarily going to work well for that audience. I’m sorry if you felt that I added little to the conversation. I agree that my main issue with the game was that other games that have very similar mechanisms (which I named specifically) are better in my opinion.
What’s the point of a 10 point review scale if 5 is or below are games you don’t recommend? 1 - 5 are basically the same, so why even bother pinpointing?
There are varying degrees of bad just likethere's varying degrees of good. Also, it keeps the relative "improvement" from one number to the next reasonably close, instead of "1 is unplayable, 2 is bad, 3 is a must-play."
They rate games that others like quite a lot as 5's, but as they get lower, they are more and more universally disliked. A 5/10 means it could be enjoyable but not what a particular individual would want to keep in a collection.
I am a little dissapointed, that TDT gives mediocre games like this the full 4 squares treatment while the last game of the legendary designer, the late Chad Jensen Dominant Species: Marine only gets a (albaeit well done) niche review. Combat Commander, the original DS are just awesome games. I wish at least Tom could take a close look and share his thoughts.
@Gankatron 5000 I think the issue is that its on the light end of war games. Its not memoir 44 but its definitely not as in depth as others in the genre.
Really wish you would have focused on the game more than the theme/art and who you felt would play it. Can't help but feel if you slap a space or "trading in the Mediterranean" theme on there it would do better. Personally speaking I'm not a fan of Root and feel it gets way too much praise for a game that isn't really approachable and is a bear to teach. But hey, it looks cute which is OK for Root but not My Farm Shop?
Different kinds of cute, Root doesn't look like those gajillion games on the Appstore
Many times I've seen some people of The Dice Tower shitting on the game for the look and components of it overlooking the gameplay.
This is the first time I really have issues with the way Mike judges a game. I can't avoid feeling and thinking that he is really shitting on the game just because how it looks and dismissing the rest.
Looks like a bridge for non gamers to get a taste of the hobby. Also as a gamer I know I am supposed to love Fantasy and Space themed games and I just don't so always happy to see a game not have that theme
I like that it is far less take-that than Machi Koro, the other welcoming dice roll/allocation game. I really liked the feel of this when DT did a playthrough!
I don’t know, looks interesting to me. Actualol recommended it. I like the machi koro mechanism so I’m thinking I’ll pick it up. Agreed the App Store art choice is a little off putting
Great game hidden inside a terrible box..really liked it.
Bought this to play with the family and they've loved it. Also gone down well with the gamers I've played it with as a night starter.
Looks interesting and doesn’t anyone remember FarmVille? Seems like they were going for that crowd and the Stardew Valley fans. It looks a bit light but I might have to check it out.
Farm Shop - The game for a gamer's family?
Can't look cute and be gamery.....got it.
These complaints, subjective of course, are just silly to rate the game so low. The "gamery" rules are very simple to understand. The look is cute, the game can be played as a family game or a gamer game with modules. The engine building is your own choice. Build it bad, that's your fault. Silly, silly, complaints.
Automania looks just as silly and much more gamery than this, and never an issue.
Don't judge a book by it's cover seems like a appropriate comment here.
And to be fair that does go both ways. There are both okay or good games with a bad cover and terrible games with a good cover.
I honestly would be more likely to take a risk on this game if I liked the art more, sorry to say. Also the title feels like a half-step away from "Baby's First Farm Game." And yet, with that said, I'd love to try this out. I got the sense that the "Farmer" expansion being universally disliked bodes poorly for the game, but I really do like the main mechanic of roll-three-dice, choose 1 for what card to pick, and the sum of the other two to determine what action is activated. Especially in combination with the little inventory of supplies.. just a lot to like about that, for me. I'm going to cross my fingers for a re-theme with tightened mechanics down the line.
People hating on mike down here. I think his points are clearly made and make sense. Good job as always gentleman.
Played it with my wife (a casual gamer), my 7 yo son and 5 yo daughter. My wife enjoyed it, but my kids not so much. As everyone have said, they're overwhelmed by the decisions and ended up let the parents pick for them. So yeah, just stick to the age recommendation (8+) and perhaps your kids can enjoy them.
Mike
I appreciate your honesty in this one. I watch the videos because I want to hear the team's opinions and I like that they aren't isn't sugar coated and that the game isn't damned with faint praise.
Everyone on the shows should feel comfortable when a game doesn't strike the right chord to voice their opinions. I like how this one brought out differing views.
Keep up the good work all of you.
I'm so torn. Rahdo likes it better than Space Base, while Tom likes Space Base better. Either way, it sounds like I'll like it.
Is their a reason particular games get displayed in the background? Are they the games of the week or is it just decore for the room week by week
Brew and Loop (typically featured) are being sponsored right now (paid advertising). Otherwise, I think Tom just throws up there whatever he wants to.
Anybody else get the vibe that Mike would have rated this a 8.0 if it was a post-nuclear apocalypse game with art by Frank Miller?
I want to make it clear that I don’t hate the theme. If I avoided games with agricultural themes, I’d be missing out on many spectacular games. I found the gameplay largely lackluster, and that’s the primary reason I scored it the way I did.
@@michaeldilisio557 I get that. But even when Tom said "set the theme aside and look at the mechanics", your point 3 was "AND THE THEME IS TOO SILLY". Even seasoned gamers who want complex experiences don't ALWAYS want to be staring at a grumpy Mediterranean trader.
@@SisyphusX And I totally agree, I love that more perfectly "dry euros" are coming out with more pleasant themes, but I agree with Mike that the game mechanisms just weren't that fun. Theme and everything aside, I still rate it a 6, and Mike rates it a 5. I find it odd he's getting much more grief than Roy or myself.
Sisyphus, Mike is totally entitled to his opinion. If you don’t enjoy hearing opinions that differ from yours, perhaps you shouldn’t watch a channel where people share their opinions of games.
@@ESCTom Ah, opinion. The rhetoric device version of the towel thrown in Frank Drebin's face. You are correct that everyone is entitled to their opinion. You are correct that this website supports freely offering one's opinion. That definition is complete, and says nothing about accuracy.
I watch channels to observe their opinions, and weigh them against my own. I then gasp *respond* when I believe my opinion is relevant to a wider audience. Such is the messy life of opinions.
I feel like Mike was overly harsh regarding the artwork vs the gameplay. Normally I am on board with much of his reasoning. Of course, I haven't actually played this game, so what do I know.
Plus I don’t really get the “who is the game for?” line of reasoning. I could care less about what the marketing strategy is. Just focus on and prioritize how fun it is to play.
@@wolflarson71 fair enough. You’re not the only one here who takes issue with that line of inquiry. I did not find the game very fun to play. If it were only my issue with potential marketing confusion, it would not have affected my score that much.
I understand the point of missing all target audiences... Due to the kids app theme the game does not feel like it should have complex decision making.
First time a review from you guys is so wrong!!!! Better than Machikoro, Catan and space base. I get Tom love space base but the others I don't get it a 5 and 6 not recommending this game with an approval that's crazy.
Thanks, Mike.
Was Tom's mic off?
Btw, I love the four squares videos!
Machi Koro of Burgundy? Choosing to use your dice from using a main board or your own board.
Tom's phone keeps flashing lol
As a 50 year-old gamer who still watches cartoons and likes this kind of stylized art, I do not get why gamers pass up games because of this type of art style.
"I am the egg man..." playing in my head now
Take a shot every time Tom says “genre” 🥴
I would have never played this game based on the "app store" art design but the mechanisms do sound pretty good. I agree with Mike that the look of this game kills it since even if I didn't mind the style, it would be a tough sell to my 30-40 year old gamer friends.
You could bring the game in another box and cover up the front of the manual. The rest of the art is functional. That box art is admittedly an odd decision.
I thought exactly what Mike iterated on while Chris was overviewing it. No thanks.
I wonder if this is an example of sophistication inflation. With how prevelent games are now I wonder if manufacturers and game designers feel the need to make "gateway" games more sophisticated. Also this game seems a lot like castles of burgundy.
I don't see that as a bad thing and honestly wonder why it took us so long to get here. Kids are smart these days because of smart phone and tablet usage. I expect to see more of the same in the near future.
Ah yes, the "weightier = better" bias
Though tbf weight doesn't have to come from complexity
The artwork and name have put me off completely to ever being interested in this game.
Wouldn't be a Roy appearance without an improper use of Min-Max.
I’ve bought it but haven’t played it yet. Looks really fun! I hope to be able to convince my video gaming son to try it out, the cover might actually make it easier 😁😅
Good to see and hear Sam again. Good video. Greetings from Denmark to the both of you.
The main points of Mike's complaints seemed absolutely bizarre to me. He seemed inordinately offended that the game didnt fit in a conveniently labelled "box". What consumer is that actually a concern for? Who is "the crisis of what kind of game is it" going to be a problem for? Other than reviewers it seems. The sum total of useful criticism from him was "Other games do it better", with no further explanation. "Mentioned many reasons" come on.
Perhaps my tone came across more intense than intended. I can assure you that nothing about the game offends me. The concern that I was trying to express was one of potential confusion for a consumer who might look at the game as one that’s for children, and find a game that’s not necessarily going to work well for that audience. I’m sorry if you felt that I added little to the conversation. I agree that my main issue with the game was that other games that have very similar mechanisms (which I named specifically) are better in my opinion.
What’s the point of a 10 point review scale if 5 is or below are games you don’t recommend? 1 - 5 are basically the same, so why even bother pinpointing?
There are varying degrees of bad just likethere's varying degrees of good. Also, it keeps the relative "improvement" from one number to the next reasonably close, instead of "1 is unplayable, 2 is bad, 3 is a must-play."
Because 1 is broken and 5 is subjective.
They rate games that others like quite a lot as 5's, but as they get lower, they are more and more universally disliked.
A 5/10 means it could be enjoyable but not what a particular individual would want to keep in a collection.
5 is Meh, don't care for it
4 is BAD
3 is REALLY BAD
2 is HORRIBLE PIECE OF TRASH
1 I HATE HATE HATE HATE IT
So there you go!
@@thedicetower Whats your lowest rated game?
I am a little dissapointed, that TDT gives mediocre games like this the full 4 squares treatment while the last game of the legendary designer, the late Chad Jensen Dominant Species: Marine only gets a (albaeit well done) niche review. Combat Commander, the original DS are just awesome games. I wish at least Tom could take a close look and share his thoughts.
They mostly ignore war games which I like
@@jensklein4325 its not a war game, and Tom liked DS, Sam Healey was also a fan of Combat Commander
@Gankatron 5000 I think the issue is that its on the light end of war games. Its not memoir 44 but its definitely not as in depth as others in the genre.
@@Tristavillus CC is a wargame of course, but Dominant Species isnt
Rudiger. Sorry, don’t know your guy.
First!
Second!
@@danilovertuan you guys are good