As an artist who specializes in costume design I’m just going to say what I always say. Critiques like this aren’t nitpicking. These relatively small details can make or break a suit. Someone might not be able to put their finger on what it is but the vast majority of the time they’ll notice that something’s off with a costume. When it comes to costume design small details aren’t actually that small. Side note: There’s a fair amount of color differences in the main Spider-Man 3 suit compared to the Spider-Man 2 suit.
Well they went through so many suit tears that it was bound to happen. Eventually, the studio ran out of the paint and had to use slightly different tones. This happened the most in the first two movies. I remember they said in a behind-the-scenes video that they went through over 20 suits in Spiderman 1 alone. They literally kept making suits while Tobey was still wearing them.
@@Misty25939 oh I’m completely fine with the new technique and the thinner web lines. It’s really just the layout of the web pattern and the lenses on the new mask that stick out like a sore thumb to me.
Worth considering, there is a high possibility they had to change the costume enough that they wouldn’t have to pay the old costume designers for their design.
I knew that the mask had been changed but only having seen it in theaters I never got that good a look at it. But your drawings make it much clearer and I initially didn’t like it, but after your breakdown similar to you I found some appreciation for it. Love your videos.
This video felt like it came from my soul. The second Tobey’s suit was on screen in No Way Home I said “Oh my god they changed it!” and my friends thought I was nuts.
I find the 2004 version so much superior and its not even close. Something about how well the webs are positioned around the face shell, how proportionately balanced everything is, the squared jawline, the width and depth of "Tobey's" nose poking out of the mask - it all makes it seem like there's an actual human being inside the suit, unlike later iterations of the character. I think the 2021 version being seen in CGI exclusively also puts it at a massive disadvantage.
2004 is THE Spider-Man suit. it reflects seriousness, strength and all those things. maybe not the funny side of Peter but still it shows how serious spidey can be as an opponent
They spent months developing every detail of the Raimi suit when they were making those films, and more months redesigning it for Spiderman 2. Every small design detail matters, and you can see in behind-the-scenes footage of Raimi asking for very subtle changes. That's the level of care and thought that went into the look of the suit. Marvel has been criticized before for rushed CGI sequences, and it's very obvious that Tobey's mask was a victim of this fact. They even re-released an updated version of No Way Home in theaters that improved the VFX of when Tobey/Andrew come through the portals in their reveal scenes. When I first saw NHW, the mask was really goofy looking, and it definitely bugged me. At times I wasn't even sure if we were looking at Tobey's Spiderman or Andrew bc of how off it looked.
@@ChannelPup same!! I remember when you ranked the suits you mentioned the logos in the 2004 suit looked more like a big advertisement logo if I remember and I 100% couldn't agree more 😅
I think the issue was that it looked like the mask didn’t have such a sharp jawline and head shape like in the Raimi films and had a more rounded less sharp face shape for the new one, it almost looks like he isn’t wearing a face shell like Andrew and Tom but rather it looks like a ski mask.
I think my main issue with the new version of the mask, is that I think the new web pattern looks messier on the face. It DOES fit the new lenses and it does look good in context with the rest of the suit in No Way Home, so I don’t hate the new mask… but it’s not my preferred version of the mask. I think the 2004 version was the best of the mask, although the one thing I always thought would have been cool is to see a version of the 2004 mask with the 2002 eye lenses. I always wondered if making the eyes a bit smaller was necessary or not. Regardless… Tobey’s mask is iconic and it always will be. Even the NWH version is pretty dope, but I just think it was perfectly done in 2004.
@@playboi4383 I agree. That’s why I would have loved to see a version of the SM2 suit with the SM1 lenses. Maybe the change was necessary, but maybe it wasn’t and I really want to know.
I would LOVE to find a perfect replica of the 2007 venom suit. I love the design with the jagged webs and the slimed down version of the classic venom spider
@@ChannelPup that was the last film I saw with my friends from Highschool. The first was Spider-Man. And it's very dear to me. I love this series very much.
@@ChannelPup IDK, once I saw Sony's Venom movies that kind of became my new favorite live-action depiction of the character. Even without having the big white spider on his chest (because of no Spider-Man to get the symbiote from) they really seemed to address any of the nitpicks that may have been had with his SM3 design by fans, such as not being big and bulky enough or lacking the long drooling tongue, to make arguably the most comic accurate design of him in film yet. And sure a lot of that may be because of CGI, but Venom is one of those characters where it can be difficult to imagine bringing him to life any other way for live-action. But then their 2nd movie made Carnage even bigger than Venom in contrast to the comics to show how much bigger of a threat that version of the character was, but whatever. *shrug*
Rami Venom design doesn't get nearly enough love. The broken webs under the iconic Venom logo gave it so much character, as if to say that this is an evil mirror version of Spider-man. Only problem was that he wasn't very bulky, though the toys and video games were sure to fix that.
as a kid i always thought that the 3d webbing on the suit was some kind of armor that would allow the suit to disperse energy and make use of the webs shape. and as it got more and more damaged he was taking on more on the impacts
Dude you cannot even IMAGINE how much i appreciate this video. Ever since seeing first seeing the movie and noticing all the little details that seemed off about my favorite Spidey suit i have just constantly scrolling through videos and images to confirm if i was just crazy about the spider legs being a little off or the the webbing looking weird or something. But YES! Someone who not only addresses the changes to the suit but also goes into a deep dive showing companions behind the scenes facts AND cool theories is just awesome! My favorite theory was probably the eye lenses being white and black to make it stand out in the dark. I actually thought the eyes looked bigger when i first saw and i was like "Wait...did they use the 2002 lenses?!"
I don’t dislike the new mask, I prefer the thinner webbing. However, I think the pattern is less refined imo. Remove one web line to get more symmetry and curve the webs inwards so it doesn’t look too flat.
For me Tobey will always have the best Spider-Man masks from both the 1st and 2nd films, his mask in No Way Home wasn’t that great but it is what it is.
@@Kevmaster2000dang I feel like Spider-Man 3 is the weakest of the entire trilogy. Plus I think Andrew is my least favorite spidey despite him being the best actor of the bunch. Respect your opinions though
@@OBJYN788mine is tom because it’s a new take on the Peter Parker character instead of uncle bens death it shows a new perspective also I’m interested in seeing how he is going to be Bloodlusted and with no one which is the only time that this could happen in history, also Toms spider sense and toms fighting ability, also toms acting is great
When watching NWH for the first time I immediately noticed something was off with the mask, even though you only get split second glimpses at it. I had to look up more info on it after watching the movie to make sure I wasn't going insane. The new mask just looks too uneven and scruched due to where the lines were placed. I genuinely think if they removed the top horizontal line under the nose would have made a more visually appealing and consistent mask, that I would have been less likely to notice.
Andrew Garfield masks has always been my favorite followed by Tobey but Tom's has grown on me at first I was freaked out by the moving lenses but it grew on me
@@adachi3984 well not necessarily. I’m very casual comic fan mostly because I couldn’t get access to many growing up other than some of the big ones like I have the original punisher Spider-Man #129, but I watched a lot of the animated shows and when I saw Tom be introduced in the Civil War I didn’t like the moving eyes. Mostly because I didn’t think it’d translate well to live action
There were rumors flying that Spider-Man 4 would've seen Peter craft a simpler more comic-accurate suit after his old one was damaged so much, so it's not too big a stretch to assume he'd make alterations to his existing one.
The new design might compliment the eyes but to me it looks stretched out and the eyes look too far apart. Where as the old one looks like it actually fits his face with the eyes and in the middle where his nose would be, making it feel more natural. It looks so odd to me having too much space in between the eyes and nose. Also I’ve never noticed all of this until this video, so thank you i will never be able to unsee it now. 😭
The only thing that is truly off putting for me with the NWH mask is just that added horizontal line. That’s it. It’s a super big nitpick but hey, it just changes his lower head shape and just looks too compressed in the center and too wide at the bottom. It not only looks off compared to the original but it just generally gives a weird shape. Other than that it’s fine.
16:23 on closer inspection the body suit is not a perfect replica, not only because they used a cheaper way of making it but also because the rounded webbing is ditched for a straighter more refined look. This is in continuity with how the webbing looks on the mask, barely any rounded webbing there. Also the webbing in the new suit is a bit narrow to the middle, you can tell by looking at the bottom of the spider, its a V shape. They probably did this to match the sharp bottom of the spider. And the spider logo is also slightly angular on the top part, this is very clear in the scene where he meets Doc Ock and when all the Spider-Man hugs each other.
18:13 also I have to add that the original suit in 2002 version is the superior one, it looks more like the comics, the angular lenses work here best. Compare it to the 2004-2007 design it sort of exaggerated Raimi-ism of the suit to the point that it look less like Spider-Man, the angular lense is too small now. No Way Home version actually fix this a bit. Also I'm disappointed you didn't mention the lack of the circle webbing in the middle of the Raimi mask, this is a big part of the mask and I think it's one of the biggest reason why Raimi mask look as unique as it is.
I always preferred the suit from the original 2002 film. And I think the stunt guy(s) in the suit had a better shape that matched more close to Tobey. In 2 and 3 they got some taller and more muscular stunt guys in and it looked really weird
13:31 Thank you channel pup for getting into the details of the masks so much. I do appreciate this level of attention to detail! I really do like the old design better. It’s just so memorable. New design is kinda wack.
I think the circles made the face seem longer and it flowed better with the rest of the suit With the ovals, makes the face look wider. Changes the proportions. You are seeing something familiar but it's not the same so it makes it more unsettling for fans. It's like seeing your Dad vs seeing someone that looks like your dad.
As someone who didn’t grow up with Tobey Maguire’s Spider-Man, I didn’t really like his mask in NWH. The mask is too off putting, the webs feel too crowded at the bottom and way too spaced out at the top. I much prefer Tobey’s mask from Spider-Man 2. At the same time though it never really bothered me, since I never noticed the change at first.
I think the story for that one's a little less elusive what with special features being a lot more present for that one. But I've got a lot of love for that suit so I'm sure I can cook something up for it.
The webs on the mask are simply shaped like circles and not actually webs. The old costume did a better job at making webs for the mask. They all have equal curves which the new mask does not. It's uneven like I was rushed.
I grew up with Tobey’s Spider-Man and the nostalgia is seriously real. However, I’ve always had a thing for the more rounded look of the lenses. I like the way Andrews look over any other live action film. I didn’t notice a difference in Tobey’s suit in NWH but I appreciate you breaking it down for me. Great vid man.
Real Sam Raimi Spiderman fans notice the fact that the Spiderman 2002 costume is significantly different than the Spiderman 2 and 3 costumes, and if you're like me, I have always felt the 2002 costume is the best. The red and blue saturation, the darker webs, the bigger whiter lenses, the smaller front spider, and the back spider being a different design and printed rather than 3D. I absolutely love the first Spiderman costume, maybe it's nostalgia
I expected him to complain about something I didn't care about, and I watched him show me the differences, got me to dislike the changes, them he grew to appreciate them and got me to enjoy the new one a lot. I now know the differences and like both designs.
It was a good suit remake. But it just feels so sad we don’t get to see the old suit again. I was so exited to see how my favorite spider-suit would look after a decade or two
I was never that much of a Spider-Man enthusiast but even I noticed that the new mask didn't look as sharp as the old one. Just something about the old mask was striking and had an aggressive look to it that the new one didn't replicate.
I can't speak for everyone but you perfectly summarized how I felt about Tobey's NWH mask. I appreciate the analysis you did with the structure of old and new masks and have also developed a new appreciation for the new mask. That being said, nothing beats the original mask, especially SM2/SM3. To me, Tobey and Andrew's suits have been 'locked in' - when you think of either Tobey or Andrew, you think of their suits from their respective movies. If they wanted to make a suit more in line with the comic suits, they should have (and they did) make those changes onto Tom's suit since its his movie. I could be wrong but I swear they didn't do anything to Andrew's suit either - it just looks like he walked off the set of TASM2 right into NWH. Either way, great video! I love these types of content - you don't see it often!
@@user-vi4xy1jw7e You actually make a great point! It is quite natural and plausible that after SM3, Tobey's Peter's Spidey suit underwent more changes.
Funny enough, Tobey's costume was the only one that was recreated. Andrew's suit was the *exact* same one from 2014, removable gloves and all! As for Tobey's new mask as a whole, the webbing is the only complaint I have. I actually kinda like the flat black eye-trims. I dunno it feels like an homage to the eyes from Spider-Man 1 (2002). But hey, that's just me. Great video as always, Pup!!
the raimi trilogy suit and mask is and forever will be the best iteration of spidermans suit. not to mention the raimi symbiote suit. growing up watching those 3 films in cinemas and then over and over again on DVD was a big part of my childhood and nostalgia.
I thought it was weird there were only a few very quick shots of this mask in NWH. I wonder if some of the toned down changes were made so he didn't look flashier than the Tom Holland Spider-Man.
wait the SM1 and NWH suits are different???. I knew that they recreated the 2-3 suit for NWH since the original one has been rotting, but i didn't know the webs were thinner and the patterns on the face were changed! and the SM1 suit too holy shit i just noticed how different the Spider emblems are
Yeah, the original Raimi suit also had differences on the hands. There were no web patterns on the palms and the fingers were more ‘dusty’ looking to account for the barbs in Peter’s hands, allowing him to stick to the wall in spite of the costume. And the soles of the boots were grey in 2002, but became red in 2004. The reason for the hands though is that tried to think of in universe reasons for things to work they way they did, but in 2004, they decided to make adjustments to the design to make Spider-Man look more refined.
The weird thing is how they altered Tobey’s suit but kept Andrew’s suit and mask pretty much exactly how it looked in TASM 2. That’s what I don’t understand.
My theory is that it was more a necessity for Tobey’s costume. They used the same technique for the silver webbing on Tobey’s suit that they used in Andrew’s suit in TASM 2, rather than gluing on the material from scratch like in Tobey’s own movies. With the webs being thinner as a result… more like Andrew’s by the very technique used, Tobey’s mask alterations were more needed than Andrew’s… since Andrew’s suit was basically remade using the exact same methods as before.
this video made me realize something about the Raimi mask I have never noticed, and I don't know how. It doesn't have the center vertical line on the top half. it may be why it looks a bit more Ditko than the other 2 spidey's. the webbing pattern really became a defined pattern with John Romito Sr. the upper center line is such a distinct feature of the mask that they changed it to a bottom center line for Doc Ocks superior Spiderman suit and it looks completely different
I’ll admit I certainly didn’t notice it untill after the movie I saw people talking about it online, but I do agree it did look a tad bit odd. Only complaints I have is that we saw Tobey back in the dark. Which meant darker lightning to see the suit properly. Wish he came back earlier during the daytime.
My favorite version of the Spider-Man mask from the original Trilogy is the one from Spider-Man (2002 film) I do like the Spider-Man mask from Spider-Man 2 and 3 as well but the first version of the mask is my favorite one on screen
You know for the movie itself it doesn’t take away from much bc it’s not seen in detail that much. BUT…it is a much bigger deal if collectibles and memorabilia have the new mask. It’s very noticeable and you buy collectibles to be noticed and the mask doesn’t look good when you have it sitting there not moving.
tobey's no way home suit is an actual mod in the sm remastered game for pc. I didn't expect the suit to look the exact same as it did in 2007, I was there for the actors, I can live with the fit looking slightly different lol
Maybe after Spiderman 3, Tobey's peter gave up on making the suit over and over again, he made up a new design or had run out of materials for the original one and had to make his own. But considering the original costume was expensive and was only available to Raimi's Collection, he may have had a new suit.
I think it would be so cool if Tobey and Andrew took inspiration from Tom Hollands eye lenses movement , the same way Tom Holland took inspiration from both Tobey and Andrew Suits.
The problem with the new design is that the lower part of the mask has more horizontal webbing than the upper part when you look at it from the front. On the original suit it was evenly spread out. 4 horizontal webbings each. It made the mask look more symmetrical.
It’s something I noticed and was confused. I didn’t think that maybe the cost was a factor to play here. However, I do have my own theory. There are pieces of concept art out there that show Andrew in his first TASM suit, and if you line that suits mask up with the newer Tobey suit…it looks nearly identical. So my theory is that maybe in the very early stages of production the visual arts team didn’t know which suit to use for Andrew so they made both or just his first movie but then maybe reused the tasm 1 mask model for Tobey’s suit mask since they used cgi for his mask
When I first saw the difference I sort of automatically assumed it was just a decision made to match him growing older and more mature and becoming less edgy, especially after the symbiote stuff, likely making him was to part ways more with edginess and such and wanting a more approachable appearance.
Honestly, I really don't think it was intentional, the two concept arts that they share was accurate with the original look, the artists probably just didn't think much about it and made it different without noticing, then they passe for the CGI artist to Scan and that became what it is.
HD or High Density screen printing Ink is a newer tech that we didn't have back in the Toby Spider-Man days. HD ink seems like the most practical way to do it these days. Or it could be a silicone Ink that is similar. It would also allow you to do different thicknesses of webs and textures by the thickness of the screens!
I was one of the ones that noticed the mask change right away when I first saw the movie! I too look at the smallest details of the characters that mean so much to me - Spider-Man being my number one. It struck me as being so bizarre as to why they could have gone with a different mask design for such an iconic look. Your own mask comparison did open my eyes as to how the new webbing actually flows with the new lenses, which at first glance looks very off-putting or messy. The theory of Tobey's Peter remaking his mask after the events of the third film, or after so many battles does make sense. Great video, and never look away from the granular details.
I don’t like the new mask, here’s why: The eyes are not only less angular, but a little farther apart, which is what set me off at first. It makes the mask look a little, for lack of a better term, derpy. I also hate that it’s less angular and thick, especially on the eyes, because that is what really set Toby’s Spidy apart. I really think the change just makes him look more flat and generic, and I really hope it doesn’t stick if Toby ever comes back again.
I think you nailed it here. I think the No Way Home mask is the result of the film's costume designer looking at the Raimiverse masks, and saying 'Okay, if I'm designing this mask today, how do I approach it?' And her sensibilities as a designer said, this could look cleaner if the webbing was spaced this way, or angled that way, but never wanting to stray too far from the iconic look from those films. And I think the new mask strikes that balance. It has a slightly more modern look, but it's still instantly recognizable as Raimi Spidey. Personally, I still think Andrew Garfield's Amazing Spider-Man 2 suit and mask are the perfect live action Spidey realization, and I think No Way Home did it well, also. But when I was really heavy into Amazing Spider-Man *comics* was during Mark Bagley's run in the 90s, and the ASM 2 suit is like a 90s Bagley Spidey walked off the page. The size and shape and pure whiteness of those eyes were just...perfection.
This video is much needed i hope all the spiderman fans that have a issue with the new mask design should watch this. I dont mind the no way home mask I actually like it a lot but obviously I prefer the sm2 mask design but it does not bother me that they went this route although i do wish they made the webbing more defined on the mask and made the sharpness of his jaw more like the sm2 mask, but overall i like it and love that we got tobey and his iconic suit back.
I can’t lie I did also feel that something was up with the mask. These changes definitely effect the vibe even from my perspective as someone who knows nothing about costumes
Thank you so much for making this. It's been bugging me since the movie came out! I was like, "Look! It's different!" and no one seemed to care. I love both designs at the end of the day but I was just interested in the reasoning behind all the changes. another change I noticed in the CGI of Andrew Garfield's suit was they made it tighter. The practical suit was exactly the same in the way it fit. I think I remember in an interview Andrew says he was excited that it still fit so I think they reused his suit. But back to the point, In the Amazing Spider-man 2 the CGI department goes out of their way to show all the folds of the suit and wrinkles and how it ripples in the wind when in motion. But in the new movie it was like a second skin. But then again it probably took a lot of time and money to render cloth simulations and muscle deformation for the Amazing Spider-man that they just didn't have for this project.
As somebody without nostalgia for the OG movies, I do think the new one looks nicer. However, the original is definitely more unique, though I personally think the old lenses work better on the Black Suit. Great drawings, too!
I remember thinking to myself while watching the movie that the mask always did look a little off compared to the OG movies I just couldn’t tell what it was
what irks me is that some people will say "it's the same mask, keep crying". it's NOT the same mask, and that's a fact. just because they're too stupid to tell the difference, doesn't mean it's the same.
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When you realize Andrew’s suit was also the same from TASM2, while Tobey’s suit literally decayed…
not exacly the same, the face shell is different and the colors too. but still minor next to tobeys
Because tasm 2 was not that long ago Spiderman 3 was like decades ago
As an artist who specializes in costume design I’m just going to say what I always say. Critiques like this aren’t nitpicking. These relatively small details can make or break a suit. Someone might not be able to put their finger on what it is but the vast majority of the time they’ll notice that something’s off with a costume. When it comes to costume design small details aren’t actually that small.
Side note: There’s a fair amount of color differences in the main Spider-Man 3 suit compared to the Spider-Man 2 suit.
Well they went through so many suit tears that it was bound to happen. Eventually, the studio ran out of the paint and had to use slightly different tones. This happened the most in the first two movies. I remember they said in a behind-the-scenes video that they went through over 20 suits in Spiderman 1 alone. They literally kept making suits while Tobey was still wearing them.
@@Misty25939 oh I’m completely fine with the new technique and the thinner web lines. It’s really just the layout of the web pattern and the lenses on the new mask that stick out like a sore thumb to me.
No, it's nitpicking. Spiderman fans are so annoying. Lol
@@user-vi4xy1jw7e💀
@@user-vi4xy1jw7e you having eye problem doesn't mean that its nitpicking. New mask is complete ass. Almost as ass as Insomniac's Raimi suit
I think it was a matter of the creators of this mask thinking that no one would notice to cut some minor corners. Could be completely wrong though
I think they did bad CGI mask and thinking in few seconds People dont see difference. Well :D I Hope they fix for next tobey appearance
Totally agree with this. The cgi was rushed, which I don’t blame the actual Vox house, but rather Disney for rushing out their movies.
@@Pelludethis was Sony
this WAS a pandemic era movie n the beginning of the bad cgi marvel era so yes
I certainly noticed a difference, although I couldn't quite put my finger on it.
Worth considering, there is a high possibility they had to change the costume enough that they wouldn’t have to pay the old costume designers for their design.
That would actually really really explain it all.
This is most likely the answer
That's not how rights work when it comes to character design. They'd have to pretty much change everything on the suit, not just the mask
it looked like shit
I knew that the mask had been changed but only having seen it in theaters I never got that good a look at it. But your drawings make it much clearer and I initially didn’t like it, but after your breakdown similar to you I found some appreciation for it. Love your videos.
This video felt like it came from my soul. The second Tobey’s suit was on screen in No Way Home I said “Oh my god they changed it!” and my friends thought I was nuts.
I find the 2004 version so much superior and its not even close.
Something about how well the webs are positioned around the face shell, how proportionately balanced everything is, the squared jawline, the width and depth of "Tobey's" nose poking out of the mask - it all makes it seem like there's an actual human being inside the suit, unlike later iterations of the character.
I think the 2021 version being seen in CGI exclusively also puts it at a massive disadvantage.
2004 is THE Spider-Man suit. it reflects seriousness, strength and all those things. maybe not the funny side of Peter but still it shows how serious spidey can be as an opponent
They spent months developing every detail of the Raimi suit when they were making those films, and more months redesigning it for Spiderman 2. Every small design detail matters, and you can see in behind-the-scenes footage of Raimi asking for very subtle changes. That's the level of care and thought that went into the look of the suit. Marvel has been criticized before for rushed CGI sequences, and it's very obvious that Tobey's mask was a victim of this fact. They even re-released an updated version of No Way Home in theaters that improved the VFX of when Tobey/Andrew come through the portals in their reveal scenes. When I first saw NHW, the mask was really goofy looking, and it definitely bugged me. At times I wasn't even sure if we were looking at Tobey's Spiderman or Andrew bc of how off it looked.
I actually really love the (2002) suit more than the (2004 - 2007) suit personally
I prefer the spider logos on the 2002.
@@ChannelPup same!! I remember when you ranked the suits you mentioned the logos in the 2004 suit looked more like a big advertisement logo if I remember and I 100% couldn't agree more 😅
Same all the way, only negative that the 2002 suit has is its very dark blue. If only it would be lighter
Same here,the newer mask kinda reminded me of the first mask with the whiter eyes im totally fine with it.
The 1st suit is the only comic accurate one while 23 are updated refined versions of suit!
The concept art SHOWS the mask the way it's supposed to be. That little extra webbing between his eyes throws EVERYTHING off
I think the issue was that it looked like the mask didn’t have such a sharp jawline and head shape like in the Raimi films and had a more rounded less sharp face shape for the new one, it almost looks like he isn’t wearing a face shell like Andrew and Tom but rather it looks like a ski mask.
I think my main issue with the new version of the mask, is that I think the new web pattern looks messier on the face. It DOES fit the new lenses and it does look good in context with the rest of the suit in No Way Home, so I don’t hate the new mask… but it’s not my preferred version of the mask. I think the 2004 version was the best of the mask, although the one thing I always thought would have been cool is to see a version of the 2004 mask with the 2002 eye lenses. I always wondered if making the eyes a bit smaller was necessary or not. Regardless… Tobey’s mask is iconic and it always will be. Even the NWH version is pretty dope, but I just think it was perfectly done in 2004.
Spider man 2 has the best suit...the lenses are okay but spider man 1 has the best lenses
@@playboi4383 I agree. That’s why I would have loved to see a version of the SM2 suit with the SM1 lenses. Maybe the change was necessary, but maybe it wasn’t and I really want to know.
The web pattern change makes it look like the mask is tighter around Tobeys mouth. I can't unsee it now
I actually prefer the sm2 lenses
meh, i like the 2004 & 2007 lenses better. They look so much more menacing. Like he's sayin "come at me b*tch >:( "
I would LOVE to find a perfect replica of the 2007 venom suit. I love the design with the jagged webs and the slimed down version of the classic venom spider
It's my favourite Venom design. It's very cleverly crafted.
@@ChannelPup that was the last film I saw with my friends from Highschool. The first was Spider-Man. And it's very dear to me. I love this series very much.
@@ChannelPup IDK, once I saw Sony's Venom movies that kind of became my new favorite live-action depiction of the character. Even without having the big white spider on his chest (because of no Spider-Man to get the symbiote from) they really seemed to address any of the nitpicks that may have been had with his SM3 design by fans, such as not being big and bulky enough or lacking the long drooling tongue, to make arguably the most comic accurate design of him in film yet. And sure a lot of that may be because of CGI, but Venom is one of those characters where it can be difficult to imagine bringing him to life any other way for live-action.
But then their 2nd movie made Carnage even bigger than Venom in contrast to the comics to show how much bigger of a threat that version of the character was, but whatever. *shrug*
@@ChannelPup I'm not a loser, You're a loser, DO IT!!..
Rami Venom design doesn't get nearly enough love. The broken webs under the iconic Venom logo gave it so much character, as if to say that this is an evil mirror version of Spider-man. Only problem was that he wasn't very bulky, though the toys and video games were sure to fix that.
It's because Toby's mask is so perfect, they needed to nerf it so it wouldn't take attention away from Tom Holland's suit!
Still paid more attention to toby than Tom.
as a kid i always thought that the 3d webbing on the suit was some kind of armor that would allow the suit to disperse energy and make use of the webs shape. and as it got more and more damaged he was taking on more on the impacts
Dude you cannot even IMAGINE how much i appreciate this video. Ever since seeing first seeing the movie and noticing all the little details that seemed off about my favorite Spidey suit i have just constantly scrolling through videos and images to confirm if i was just crazy about the spider legs being a little off or the the webbing looking weird or something.
But YES! Someone who not only addresses the changes to the suit but also goes into a deep dive showing companions behind the scenes facts AND cool theories is just awesome! My favorite theory was probably the eye lenses being white and black to make it stand out in the dark. I actually thought the eyes looked bigger when i first saw and i was like "Wait...did they use the 2002 lenses?!"
I knew something was wrong with Spidey just didn't look Right, now i know why
I don’t dislike the new mask, I prefer the thinner webbing. However, I think the pattern is less refined imo. Remove one web line to get more symmetry and curve the webs inwards so it doesn’t look too flat.
For me Tobey will always have the best Spider-Man masks from both the 1st and 2nd films, his mask in No Way Home wasn’t that great but it is what it is.
Spider-Man 3 is the GOAT. So nostalgic. Andrew is probably my fav Spidey though.
@@Kevmaster2000dang I feel like Spider-Man 3 is the weakest of the entire trilogy. Plus I think Andrew is my least favorite spidey despite him being the best actor of the bunch. Respect your opinions though
His mask in NWH looked the same to me
@@OBJYN788mine is tom because it’s a new take on the Peter Parker character instead of uncle bens death it shows a new perspective also I’m interested in seeing how he is going to be Bloodlusted and with no one which is the only time that this could happen in history, also Toms spider sense and toms fighting ability, also toms acting is great
I'm just happy Tobey Maguire was in Spider-Man No Way Home
When watching NWH for the first time I immediately noticed something was off with the mask, even though you only get split second glimpses at it. I had to look up more info on it after watching the movie to make sure I wasn't going insane. The new mask just looks too uneven and scruched due to where the lines were placed. I genuinely think if they removed the top horizontal line under the nose would have made a more visually appealing and consistent mask, that I would have been less likely to notice.
I'm so glad someone talked about this. I still prefer the 2002-2004 version
Andrew Garfield masks has always been my favorite followed by Tobey but Tom's has grown on me at first I was freaked out by the moving lenses but it grew on me
The moving lenses allow the character to emote similarly to the comics and animated shows
just more proof that mcu fans don't read comics lmao
@@adachi3984 well not necessarily. I’m very casual comic fan mostly because I couldn’t get access to many growing up other than some of the big ones like I have the original punisher Spider-Man #129, but I watched a lot of the animated shows and when I saw Tom be introduced in the Civil War I didn’t like the moving eyes. Mostly because I didn’t think it’d translate well to live action
I think the first Garfield suit is the best
@@adachi3984yeah, not everyone is a loser that fawns over shitty forms of media. Comics are in the dump right now.
There were rumors flying that Spider-Man 4 would've seen Peter craft a simpler more comic-accurate suit after his old one was damaged so much, so it's not too big a stretch to assume he'd make alterations to his existing one.
Though I prefer the old one, I like how the new one has white lenses showing that he's not as angry as he was in 2002-2007.
just curious how do the lenses meam that?
@@bananachana3576 Silver is a darker color than white, and darker colors are usually used to show anger
The new design might compliment the eyes but to me it looks stretched out and the eyes look too far apart. Where as the old one looks like it actually fits his face with the eyes and in the middle where his nose would be, making it feel more natural. It looks so odd to me having too much space in between the eyes and nose. Also I’ve never noticed all of this until this video, so thank you i will never be able to unsee it now. 😭
The only thing that is truly off putting for me with the NWH mask is just that added horizontal line. That’s it. It’s a super big nitpick but hey, it just changes his lower head shape and just looks too compressed in the center and too wide at the bottom. It not only looks off compared to the original but it just generally gives a weird shape. Other than that it’s fine.
16:23 on closer inspection the body suit is not a perfect replica, not only because they used a cheaper way of making it but also because the rounded webbing is ditched for a straighter more refined look. This is in continuity with how the webbing looks on the mask, barely any rounded webbing there.
Also the webbing in the new suit is a bit narrow to the middle, you can tell by looking at the bottom of the spider, its a V shape. They probably did this to match the sharp bottom of the spider.
And the spider logo is also slightly angular on the top part, this is very clear in the scene where he meets Doc Ock and when all the Spider-Man hugs each other.
18:13 also I have to add that the original suit in 2002 version is the superior one, it looks more like the comics, the angular lenses work here best.
Compare it to the 2004-2007 design it sort of exaggerated Raimi-ism of the suit to the point that it look less like Spider-Man, the angular lense is too small now. No Way Home version actually fix this a bit.
Also I'm disappointed you didn't mention the lack of the circle webbing in the middle of the Raimi mask, this is a big part of the mask and I think it's one of the biggest reason why Raimi mask look as unique as it is.
Bingo! Well spotted!
I always preferred the suit from the original 2002 film. And I think the stunt guy(s) in the suit had a better shape that matched more close to Tobey. In 2 and 3 they got some taller and more muscular stunt guys in and it looked really weird
13:31 Thank you channel pup for getting into the details of the masks so much. I do appreciate this level of attention to detail!
I really do like the old design better. It’s just so memorable. New design is kinda wack.
I think the new design makes lower part of the mask look too tight. That's my first thought every time I see it lol
The middle of the new mask looks like a spider too which is kinda fun
can’t believe u made me not hate this design anymore
I think the circles made the face seem longer and it flowed better with the rest of the suit
With the ovals, makes the face look wider. Changes the proportions. You are seeing something familiar but it's not the same so it makes it more unsettling for fans.
It's like seeing your Dad vs seeing someone that looks like your dad.
They did it because they said that Peter would’ve made some edits to his suit in 20 years. I didn’t like it but it makes sense.
As someone who didn’t grow up with Tobey Maguire’s Spider-Man, I didn’t really like his mask in NWH. The mask is too off putting, the webs feel too crowded at the bottom and way too spaced out at the top. I much prefer Tobey’s mask from Spider-Man 2. At the same time though it never really bothered me, since I never noticed the change at first.
TASM 1 suit.... Can I get story on that?
It's one of the dopest spidy suits
I think the story for that one's a little less elusive what with special features being a lot more present for that one. But I've got a lot of love for that suit so I'm sure I can cook something up for it.
@@ChannelPup yo I'll be happy with 🖐🏿 min! Love the show G!
The webs on the mask are simply shaped like circles and not actually webs. The old costume did a better job at making webs for the mask. They all have equal curves which the new mask does not. It's uneven like I was rushed.
i agree the sam raimi mask looks more sharp and clean. the webbing really important.
my favorite spiderman mask (and costume overall) is the TASM 2 spider man version. OMG so perfect
I grew up with Tobey's costume, too. Spider-Man was my childhood hero!
I grew up with Tobey’s Spider-Man and the nostalgia is seriously real. However, I’ve always had a thing for the more rounded look of the lenses. I like the way Andrews look over any other live action film. I didn’t notice a difference in Tobey’s suit in NWH but I appreciate you breaking it down for me. Great vid man.
Honestly i was so hyped to just see 3 spidermen next to eachother that i didnt pay that much attention to the difference in the suit
Real Sam Raimi Spiderman fans notice the fact that the Spiderman 2002 costume is significantly different than the Spiderman 2 and 3 costumes, and if you're like me, I have always felt the 2002 costume is the best. The red and blue saturation, the darker webs, the bigger whiter lenses, the smaller front spider, and the back spider being a different design and printed rather than 3D. I absolutely love the first Spiderman costume, maybe it's nostalgia
It's nostalgia
I noticed that when I was little, especially from playing the games. The first suit always looked better to me and made his back look more muscular
I prefer the second movie suit, personally, not because of nostalgia somewhat, i grew up more with the first movie, but its because of its aesthetic
I expected him to complain about something I didn't care about, and I watched him show me the differences, got me to dislike the changes, them he grew to appreciate them and got me to enjoy the new one a lot.
I now know the differences and like both designs.
It was a good suit remake. But it just feels so sad we don’t get to see the old suit again. I was so exited to see how my favorite spider-suit would look after a decade or two
I was never that much of a Spider-Man enthusiast but even I noticed that the new mask didn't look as sharp as the old one. Just something about the old mask was striking and had an aggressive look to it that the new one didn't replicate.
I can't speak for everyone but you perfectly summarized how I felt about Tobey's NWH mask. I appreciate the analysis you did with the structure of old and new masks and have also developed a new appreciation for the new mask. That being said, nothing beats the original mask, especially SM2/SM3. To me, Tobey and Andrew's suits have been 'locked in' - when you think of either Tobey or Andrew, you think of their suits from their respective movies. If they wanted to make a suit more in line with the comic suits, they should have (and they did) make those changes onto Tom's suit since its his movie. I could be wrong but I swear they didn't do anything to Andrew's suit either - it just looks like he walked off the set of TASM2 right into NWH. Either way, great video! I love these types of content - you don't see it often!
This Tobey is from years after the third movie. Why do people think his costume would be exactly the same?
@@user-vi4xy1jw7e You actually make a great point! It is quite natural and plausible that after SM3, Tobey's Peter's Spidey suit underwent more changes.
The only thing I don't like about the new mask is the section of webs on the lower half that gives the appearance of a toothy smile.
3:24 omg it’s insane how perfect these descriptions are
Funny enough, Tobey's costume was the only one that was recreated. Andrew's suit was the *exact* same one from 2014, removable gloves and all! As for Tobey's new mask as a whole, the webbing is the only complaint I have. I actually kinda like the flat black eye-trims. I dunno it feels like an homage to the eyes from Spider-Man 1 (2002). But hey, that's just me. Great video as always, Pup!!
the raimi trilogy suit and mask is and forever will be the best iteration of spidermans suit. not to mention the raimi symbiote suit. growing up watching those 3 films in cinemas and then over and over again on DVD was a big part of my childhood and nostalgia.
For me the most noticeable part is that the purple-ish shading around the eye lenses disappeared, making his eyes look beadier than they should
I like to think Tobey's Spiderman redesigned his mask in between the events of SM3 and NWH 😂
I thought it was weird there were only a few very quick shots of this mask in NWH. I wonder if some of the toned down changes were made so he didn't look flashier than the Tom Holland Spider-Man.
I just can't hold my laugh whenever I watch the Captain America's PSA
I want you to make a video explaining the differences between the suits: 2001 (trailer suit), 2002, 2004, 2007 (red and black), 2021.
I didn’t even notice the mask was different or anything. Yes I was too excited to see the original Spider-Man back
I personally REALLY REALLY did not like the webbing change. It looked so much better and fuller with the more 3d webbing
wait the SM1 and NWH suits are different???. I knew that they recreated the 2-3 suit for NWH since the original one has been rotting, but i didn't know the webs were thinner and the patterns on the face were changed!
and the SM1 suit too holy shit i just noticed how different the Spider emblems are
Yeah, the original Raimi suit also had differences on the hands. There were no web patterns on the palms and the fingers were more ‘dusty’ looking to account for the barbs in Peter’s hands, allowing him to stick to the wall in spite of the costume. And the soles of the boots were grey in 2002, but became red in 2004. The reason for the hands though is that tried to think of in universe reasons for things to work they way they did, but in 2004, they decided to make adjustments to the design to make Spider-Man look more refined.
Tobey‘s mask in No Way Home looks like the mask in Spider-Man Web of Shadows for PS2. Lmfao…
That 1 extra web line makes it very weird imo.
The weird thing is how they altered Tobey’s suit but kept Andrew’s suit and mask pretty much exactly how it looked in TASM 2. That’s what I don’t understand.
My theory is that it was more a necessity for Tobey’s costume. They used the same technique for the silver webbing on Tobey’s suit that they used in Andrew’s suit in TASM 2, rather than gluing on the material from scratch like in Tobey’s own movies. With the webs being thinner as a result… more like Andrew’s by the very technique used, Tobey’s mask alterations were more needed than Andrew’s… since Andrew’s suit was basically remade using the exact same methods as before.
I think Andrew's was the literal suit from amazing spiderman 2 that's why it looked exact could be wrong tho
this video made me realize something about the Raimi mask I have never noticed, and I don't know how. It doesn't have the center vertical line on the top half. it may be why it looks a bit more Ditko than the other 2 spidey's. the webbing pattern really became a defined pattern with John Romito Sr. the upper center line is such a distinct feature of the mask that they changed it to a bottom center line for Doc Ocks superior Spiderman suit and it looks completely different
2004 spiderman suit will always be my top1 favourite
I’ll admit I certainly didn’t notice it untill after the movie I saw people talking about it online, but I do agree it did look a tad bit odd. Only complaints I have is that we saw Tobey back in the dark. Which meant darker lightning to see the suit properly. Wish he came back earlier during the daytime.
I never noticed this change buy now you pointed it out its really interesting tbf
His new mask kinda looks like it has a creepy grin
11:38 looks great 👍
2007 suit has rounded front logo, a smaller rear logo and colder colors
I liked the new mask, it showed growth to me. And I like how he looks more squinty XD
My favorite version of the Spider-Man mask from the original Trilogy is the one from Spider-Man (2002 film) I do like the Spider-Man mask from Spider-Man 2 and 3 as well but the first version of the mask is my favorite one on screen
You know for the movie itself it doesn’t take away from much bc it’s not seen in detail that much. BUT…it is a much bigger deal if collectibles and memorabilia have the new mask. It’s very noticeable and you buy collectibles to be noticed and the mask doesn’t look good when you have it sitting there not moving.
I didn't notice during viewing, but now I can't unsee it.
As an aside, few mic pops at the start. May want to replace your pop filter. :)
The old mask looks angry
The new mask looks friendly
New one looks like they just briefly replayed the spider-man 3 video game and said yeah that’s good enough just make it look like that
*3:13** ¡THANK YOU!*
tobey's no way home suit is an actual mod in the sm remastered game for pc. I didn't expect the suit to look the exact same as it did in 2007, I was there for the actors, I can live with the fit looking slightly different lol
Maybe after Spiderman 3, Tobey's peter gave up on making the suit over and over again, he made up a new design or had run out of materials for the original one and had to make his own. But considering the original costume was expensive and was only available to Raimi's Collection, he may have had a new suit.
I think it would be so cool if Tobey and Andrew took inspiration from Tom Hollands eye lenses movement , the same way Tom Holland took inspiration from both Tobey and Andrew Suits.
The problem with the new design is that the lower part of the mask has more horizontal webbing than the upper part when you look at it from the front.
On the original suit it was evenly spread out.
4 horizontal webbings each. It made the mask look more symmetrical.
It’s something I noticed and was confused. I didn’t think that maybe the cost was a factor to play here. However, I do have my own theory. There are pieces of concept art out there that show Andrew in his first TASM suit, and if you line that suits mask up with the newer Tobey suit…it looks nearly identical. So my theory is that maybe in the very early stages of production the visual arts team didn’t know which suit to use for Andrew so they made both or just his first movie but then maybe reused the tasm 1 mask model for Tobey’s suit mask since they used cgi for his mask
No lol. Mcu just has a horrible cgi team
You are not alone! I care way to mutch about those small details on the suits
When I first saw the difference I sort of automatically assumed it was just a decision made to match him growing older and more mature and becoming less edgy, especially after the symbiote stuff, likely making him was to part ways more with edginess and such and wanting a more approachable appearance.
Honestly, I really don't think it was intentional, the two concept arts that they share was accurate with the original look, the artists probably just didn't think much about it and made it different without noticing, then they passe for the CGI artist to Scan and that became what it is.
Ur drawing did the mask justice
HD or High Density screen printing Ink is a newer tech that we didn't have back in the Toby Spider-Man days. HD ink seems like the most practical way to do it these days. Or it could be a silicone Ink that is similar. It would also allow you to do different thicknesses of webs and textures by the thickness of the screens!
I was one of the ones that noticed the mask change right away when I first saw the movie! I too look at the smallest details of the characters that mean so much to me - Spider-Man being my number one. It struck me as being so bizarre as to why they could have gone with a different mask design for such an iconic look. Your own mask comparison did open my eyes as to how the new webbing actually flows with the new lenses, which at first glance looks very off-putting or messy. The theory of Tobey's Peter remaking his mask after the events of the third film, or after so many battles does make sense. Great video, and never look away from the granular details.
I didn't even notice, now please do a video on the differences between andrews
I don’t like the new mask, here’s why:
The eyes are not only less angular, but a little farther apart, which is what set me off at first. It makes the mask look a little, for lack of a better term, derpy. I also hate that it’s less angular and thick, especially on the eyes, because that is what really set Toby’s Spidy apart. I really think the change just makes him look more flat and generic, and I really hope it doesn’t stick if Toby ever comes back again.
Agreed! The lens and the webbing feel like a downgrade
I agree i think they rushed this suit…
I noticed this when I first watched NWH.
I think you nailed it here. I think the No Way Home mask is the result of the film's costume designer looking at the Raimiverse masks, and saying 'Okay, if I'm designing this mask today, how do I approach it?' And her sensibilities as a designer said, this could look cleaner if the webbing was spaced this way, or angled that way, but never wanting to stray too far from the iconic look from those films. And I think the new mask strikes that balance. It has a slightly more modern look, but it's still instantly recognizable as Raimi Spidey.
Personally, I still think Andrew Garfield's Amazing Spider-Man 2 suit and mask are the perfect live action Spidey realization, and I think No Way Home did it well, also. But when I was really heavy into Amazing Spider-Man *comics* was during Mark Bagley's run in the 90s, and the ASM 2 suit is like a 90s Bagley Spidey walked off the page. The size and shape and pure whiteness of those eyes were just...perfection.
This video is much needed i hope all the spiderman fans that have a issue with the new mask design should watch this. I dont mind the no way home mask I actually like it a lot but obviously I prefer the sm2 mask design but it does not bother me that they went this route although i do wish they made the webbing more defined on the mask and made the sharpness of his jaw more like the sm2 mask, but overall i like it and love that we got tobey and his iconic suit back.
I can’t lie I did also feel that something was up with the mask. These changes definitely effect the vibe even from my perspective as someone who knows nothing about costumes
Thank you so much for making this. It's been bugging me since the movie came out! I was like, "Look! It's different!" and no one seemed to care. I love both designs at the end of the day but I was just interested in the reasoning behind all the changes.
another change I noticed in the CGI of Andrew Garfield's suit was they made it tighter. The practical suit was exactly the same in the way it fit. I think I remember in an interview Andrew says he was excited that it still fit so I think they reused his suit. But back to the point, In the Amazing Spider-man 2 the CGI department goes out of their way to show all the folds of the suit and wrinkles and how it ripples in the wind when in motion. But in the new movie it was like a second skin. But then again it probably took a lot of time and money to render cloth simulations and muscle deformation for the Amazing Spider-man that they just didn't have for this project.
As somebody without nostalgia for the OG movies, I do think the new one looks nicer. However, the original is definitely more unique, though I personally think the old lenses work better on the Black Suit.
Great drawings, too!
tobeys mask has more grey/silver eyes along what channel pup pointed out
I personally love that they dialed down on the webbing, I love the of suit but the webbing felt a little too much
I remember thinking to myself while watching the movie that the mask always did look a little off compared to the OG movies I just couldn’t tell what it was
I thought I was the only person that noticed the new mask, ngl it made me so mad in theater I couldn't accept it
what irks me is that some people will say "it's the same mask, keep crying". it's NOT the same mask, and that's a fact. just because they're too stupid to tell the difference, doesn't mean it's the same.
The shape of Tobey’s head has changed some too.
His mask/shell should be a little different too
Seeing someone who feels the same way about something as small as a fabric mask makes me so happy.