Hey Doug, we have been using Starlink as a primary internet connection for the past 3 weeks on a sports tour that has had no internet facilities on site. Have been using a LiveU solo with 2x 4g modems and it has been fantastic. Reliably streaming at 9-10mb.
@ Dylan Sheehan Starlink has just reached our island. I want to do live streaming across the country such as funerals. I have the liveu solo. Have not yet connected with any service provider or used the liveu. Would be glad to hear how I can go about this.
Awesome video, Doug! Thank you for posting this pretty useful video! I’ve used so many of your videos to learn industry standards, video production tips, and so on. Thank you for the effort! I’ve learned so much! :)
I would be curious to see the result using Haivision Makito X devices. Our local tv stations use this and it works quite good and with the gateway you can be on any public internet and its gonna work. Can do avc and or hevc depend the model. Also its encypted by using the SRT protocol.
I’m heading for Teradek CORE and HEVC. Looks like Teradek has a new 4K streaming encoders, Prism, but I do not see that my application will ever demand more than 1080P.
Another factor to consider is whether for situations where you need Starlink you would be able to park your truck where you get a full view of the sky and can also connect your truck to the event.
True, but that's probably only an issue in dense urban environments or the narrowest of canyons. Where I live the dish points almost due North, and only needs a clear view above 40 degrees elevation to the North, East, and West, give or take. The Southern view can be much more obscured.
Starlink also has Wi-Fi. But, in my opinion, you should avoid using Wi-Fi when doing video streaming. Also, a single Starlink connection isn't fast enough on its own to stream video.
I've only used Starlink in non-critical environments, but I have used it for a ~2 hour local sports stream and it worked beautifully. I'd highly recommend looking in to using SRT instead of RTMP. SRT can generally be configured with up to a 7 second buffer that compensates for these dips in bandwidth or even short bouts of lost connectivity. I use Castr to bounce it out as a regular RTMP stream to services that don't support it. Also use SRT for cellular bonding scenarios.
SRT can be great, but not all streaming services support it, and not all encoders can create it either. I went with RTMP as the lowest common denominator.
@@djp_video Definitely outside the scope of this testing but it's worth checking out Office Hours' using bonded Starlink connections for their rocket club launch. Cool stuff! And exciting for future prospects.
The thing with Starlink bonding that kind of scares me is that two dishes in the same area are going to have the same bandwidth and reliability issues. So it can double your bandwidth, but if there aren't any satellites in view or obstructions then both connections will go down.
Hi Doug… when you were testing with OBS, did you try it with VBR (variable bit rate) ?? I used to get dropped frames periodically which I found unacceptable until I realized that if I changed the streaming rate control from CBR (constant, I think this is the default) to VBR, the dropped frames would basically go away and I would just have to live with “degraded” / fuzzy video frames. I found this to be much more acceptable. Thanks for your testing and straight to the point reporting !
Two diffrent things: VBR Rate Control at output tab and 'Dynamicly change bitrate to manage congestion' at Advanced tab - Network At first one bitrate is continuosly changed depending on content, this gives an average lower bitrate than the selectet maximum. At second one the constant bitrate is reduced if network bandwith decreases and rises if bandwith is available again. Second one is beta, but seems to work well. For testing i simulated bandwith by changing qos on my router. OBS quickly reduces bitrate and tries to inrcrease step by step every minute or so until maximum possible bandwith is reached again. I allready used this feature know for some minor important livestreams. It done well and really saved me some times.
@@Juergen_Miessmer Interesting. Thanks for the added clarification and making me realize there's two mechanisms that seem to be doing a very similar thing as the other. But the one I've been using is the first one, the non-beta option. I might experiment some myself to see how it compares for my situation.
Now a year later, and with the Starlink Flat High Performance dish and prioritized data plans, I would like to see if the Black Magic Design Web Presenter and ATEM perform any better.
Based on what I now know about how the Blackmagic stream devices work, there's just no way that it will ever work over a connection with inconsistent speeds and any measurable packet loss like a Starlink connection. Other streaming solutions might, but I just don't see that happening for a Web Presenter, ATEM Mini/SDI, or Studio Camera. They just weren't designed to cope with unpredictable connections like that.
I stream on twitch. Couldn’t do 1080p 60 at 6000 bitrate. It fluctuates way too much. It may say you’re getting 10-20 upload speed but you’re not. I can do 720p 30 3000 bitrate with about 2-4% frame drop. But when you upload videos you’re getting those 10-20 upload speeds.
I haven't. Coverage varies so widely that such a comparison would likely only be relevant in my area. And even then it varies from one address to another. Whenever I need to use cellular I'll carry SIM cards for multiple carriers just in case one carrier has better coverage at one location than another, or even use multiple carriers for the greatest chance of having some level of redundancy.
re: pocket full of SIM cards, various carriers. Teradek supplies Telna SIMS with their NODE modems that integrate with the VidiU GO. Sierra Wireless also has a similar offering.Unlike dealing with the carriers direct as a consumer, these SIMs, if I understand them correctly, offer unlimited unthrottled data and they work with any carrier worldwide. The Telna SIMs are pay-as-you-go, not monthly contract, so though the cost per Gb may be somewhat higher, the reliability for someone like me who needs to stream from multiple locations in the future that cannot be predicted in advance, plus intermittent use - I’m not trying to watch Netflix in an RV - makes costs predictable, manageable, and thus billable. Telna and Sierra are not consumer brands, but the service they are providing is essential for commercial IoT devices where someone has equipment that can be shipped anywhere, installed without onsite engineering, and needs to work reliably. Streamers benefit, and this also simplifies a lot of connectivity variables and advance work onsite at broadcast locations.
@@djp_video I wonder if the hardware they are installed in polls various carriers for best signal? It has to be sophisticated because these things are designed to deploy worldwide, so we’re not just talking about U.S. domestic carriers or, I suppose, a system that would be wrecked through inevitable mergers and acquisitions. In essence, I think both Telna and Sierra are peers to the telcos and have agreements in place for bulk bandwidth with almost everyone. But the mechanics of network switching and configuration are a mystery to me just yet.
Last week I was streaming ATEM Extreme Medium encoding over a combination of Starlink, 3 Geo satellites, and 3 LTE links. Ok it was overkill but the stream was quite reliable. 😀
Hey Doug, great video, thanks for all your hard work and all your posts that have been a great resource. A quick question, with the BM Extreme, have you tried to do a test with a mobile device attached, using one of the USB-C ports on the extreme, in order to maintain bandwidth like the Teradek? And how does the cellular backup standup? Many thanks 😊
The cellular option is only for backup. It doesn't combine bandwidth from the two connections. And it will only switch if one becomes completely non-functional.
Very helpful video. It will help my consideration for the service. Does Starlink have the capacity to control bandwidth consistency? What's the rate of drop of the upload speed with your tests?
There are a lot of factors -- distance from the satellite, obstructions, how much other users in your area are using the service, so it can fluctuate quite a lot and do so fairly quickly. Check out this site for a best estimate as to how the signals flow. (It's only an estimate and not necessarily the actual signal path) starlink.sx/
Hi Doug, again good theme. Its declare your profi experience! One problem. I bought 1 month ago bmd web. 4k. 🤔. On the bassis your video. I have some negative skills with buffering data in web presenter 4k. That problem is allso with all internet decrease conection.
It appears that the Teradek you were using has H.265 HEVC encoding. This may account for why you weren't able to stream directly to web services that are likely still on H.264 AVC. I would be interested to see a test with a more advanced broadcast grade encoder. How will an HEVC equipped LiveU, TVU or Dejero pack perform? We have had success using LiveU over KA satellite internet connections but these were geosynchronous satellites that offered low but relatively stable bandwidth. I would wager that your encoder will make all the difference here.
It has h.265 as an option when streaming through their Core service where it is transcoded to h.264. I did not test that functionality. Everything I did was using h.264. I was able to stream directly. I do it all the time. But with Starlink the varying upload bandwidth is problematic. When the upload speed drops below what the VidiU is trying to send it will just stop streaming, unless you’re using Sharelink or Core. When you use those services the VidiU will adjust its encoding bitrate to existing conditions.
Doug, If with BMD ATEM is possible to change the bitrate without interrupting the stream, do you think it would be possible to enable a dynamic bitrate change with a firmware update?
I am going to be livestreaming a large outdoor event and want to have our own dedicated network for streaming. I reached out to a company and they suggested starlink, but after doing research, it seems that it alone is not sufficient. What kind of network solutions have you used in the past for outdoor events when their network was not sufficient? Thanks for all the informative videos!
In my experience streaming OBS with Starlink for the past few month is that when i turn on OBS adaptable bit rate i dont drop froms but the quality randomly lowers alot and gets blocky.
I’ll see those kinds of speeds sometimes too. The problem with trying to stream video via Starlink is its speed variability. When it has its occasional drops in speed, or brief pauses as it tends to do, it breaks many streaming devices and software. You have to take into consideration the minimum speeds that happen from time to time when trying to do something that requires consistently like real-time video streaming, which Starlink does not do well.
Hi Doug, thanks for that information. OBS can maintain the bitrate by monitoring the network connection. It is stated beta, but i have good experience with that opttion. Have you tried this option? I have a newsspotter contract since 6 years know. Its a viasat service using KA band geostationary satelite. With this contract it is possible to reservate bandwith exclusively. I have to pay 50€ per GB, but i had no bandwith problem ever. I also use 4G bonding acros our 3 difrennt cellular providers. But newsspotter is the relliable service for big events, when thousands of people are present on location and due this 4G is unusable for streaming. I'm in europe, maybe the service is named different in US. I was thinking of starlink for the future, as the KA-Sat is getting closer to his end of livetime. It would be great if starlink would offer a contract like newsspotter, but i never heard of such plan, i hope....
It looks like Newsspotter is Europe-only. I've tried looking for something similar here in the USA and haven't had much luck. But 50 Euros per gig would get prohibitive really quickly. Not many of my customers would be okay with that, considering that decent quality 1080p streaming is going to be in the 6+ GB/hour range.
@@djp_video Yes it is expensive, but much cheaper than the KU band service used by our broadcasters. Good thing is, there is no monthly fee, i only have to pay for used or reservated traffic. My customers do accept it, if there is no other solution available but a good picture quality is recommended. Usualy i reservate 4 Gbit/sec. Straming 1080p25 in h265 at 3500 bit/s video + aac 160 bit/s audio. As most stream sevices do recomend h264, i restream this with ffmpeg running on one of my own rootservers. This sends a good quality 7000 bit/s rtmp(s) stream. But to be honest, there are also some disadvatages: I need clear sight to the south sky. Each objekt (even trees) needs to be 3 times far away, than its height. The dish has to be adjusted very well. Its a very narrow beam. The signal has to travel about 40000 kilometers to the satelite. Normal rain is no problem, but dark clouds can cause to much damping. And at least it is only one satelite/system: Some weeks ago the service was completly down for a couple of days, because some bad guys hacked into it and distributed some bad firmware wich bricked all client modems. Fotunatly mine were not online at this time.
How well would this work on a sailboat (not live streaming). We are looking for higher bandwidth than iridium go, and less cost than inmarsat ($20,000 or so for stabilized dish and two years 4g service). How much is the antenna? Inmarsat and iridium have been the only options for in the literal middle of nowhere on the water, and starlink looks promising as a third option as long as the antenna can handle a rolling/pitching/yawing platform. I saw a teardown of a starlink antenna about a year ago, and it all depends on the switching speeds of the phase chips for the panel.
I have no way of knowing that. I've seen a video where a guy literally just attached his dish to the top of his car with magnets (so the steering motors normally found in the dish were not present) and he said that service was quite good. The dish is currently $550, with $110/month for service.
@@djp_video Ok, thanx! 👍🏻 I recently bought the Wave. I also found out the hard way that the Wave just stops streaming if it doesn’t have enough bandwidth
I get consistent and excellent results using the Vidiu Pro, at it's highest setting of 5Mbs and frame rate high. I shoot amatuer sports content with fast moving action, with little or no artifacts. Have you any thoughts on the Yolobox Pro from Yololiv. So far I've been left dissapointed by it's poor streamimg and recording performance with it constantly dropping frame rates resulting in choppy / glitchy footage.
I haven't tried any of the Yolobox products. They've reached out to me to do a review, but I don't see myself ever using it so I've never accepted their invitations.
Can that teradek box give internet to the computer, acting as an adapter of sorts? I have someone who wants to do podcasts through zoom video call, and they have starlink. I've tested the calls, and it's unreliable, dropping connection. I was thinking about getting a prepaid AT&T data plan, and using something to combine the two internets. Any advice? Thanks!
If you are familar with linux, maybe OpenMPTCProuter is a solution for you to bond that two connectiions. You need a rootserver located in a datacenter and localy a raspberri PI and an ethernet switch.
friend good afternoon, how are you.... Starlink released the internet to Brazil in January 2022, so it's still very new, have you ever broadcast video in HD? have data packet loss or scanning? I'm interested in subscribing to starlink for mochilink broadcast in live journalism link for our television station, do you think it works well? thanks
I always stream in HD. For testing, I streamed in 1080p at 30 fps... but the important setting for reliable streaming is bitrate. For my testing I used rates anywhere from 3 up to 12 Mbps. 3 Mbps worked most of the time, with just occasional glitches.
I think it would have been great to see the actual footage being streamed with the different devices not just your description through words. Please, test LiveU which is really known for the reliability.
That would have been a tremendous amount of footage to go through. My testing went for more than 40 hours and I was making changes to the encoder configurations constantly while trying to monitor device status and live stream quality at the same time. Trying to take sufficient notes during all of that would have been a bit overwhelming. Some of the live streams themselves are still up (I can share links if you care), but I don't have a record of what the settings are at any given point in time so the streams are not that useful. I reached out on my Discord server to see if anyone had a LiveU I could borrow/rent, but nobody did, and rental rates are ridiculous. And I certainly wasn't going to buy one just for this video.
@@josephgriffith3944 I still haven't had anyone volunteer one, and I can't justify buying one just for a video. About Starlink, though... the speeds have gotten considerably worse since I shot this video. It isn't remotely capable of handling streamed video as it currently stands. I hope that it gets better with more satellites and ground stations.
I definitely would like to get a hardware encoder, but I really like OBS’s ability to switch scenes and how easy it is to run graphic overlays since I can’t afford software and someone to run it. But if anyone knows of a good way to take the free from obs directly and run it through hardware encoding I’d be all ears
Would this help you? th-cam.com/video/9YqZ6Ogv3rk/w-d-xo.html I send my output from my streaming software to an HDMI outputs on one of my capture cards and then plug it into my encoder.
You can output OBS programm to a second screen. Instead the screen connect the harware encoder. in 'studio mode' right click on the program screen and select the second monitor. But why? If OBS or the conputers OS crashes, youre lost. It dosnt matter then, if encoding is done by software or hardware. In my opinion you have to run everything on hardware to gain safety.
@@Juergen_Miessmer Good point however, I've found that the quality of the stream is far better via my encoder than the software, it also frees an encoder on my GPU for SRT etc.
@@Doggo-404 Better quality? Wich encoder are you using? Are the encoder settings comparabel to them in OBS encoder? I have set up a small studio in customers facility for weekly livestreams. OBS, one camera via decklink, zoom for external guests, voicemeeter for audio mixing, companian to control, tally arbiter and NDI for routing and monitor. All runs on one workstation with two GPUs and 4 connected Monitors. CPU load for encoding only is about 7%, whole setup including encoding/recording runs at 25% load. So why save that 7%? I tried GPU encoding (nvenc and quicksync), but CPU encoding gave better quality and no framedrops. (OBS itself uses Nvidia GPU , and zoom uses AMD CPU, so maybe that is the reason for the framedrops when using GPU encoding)
@@Juergen_Miessmer I have a similar setup, as in one PC being the workhorse running vMix 4K, an X32 for audio and I use a StreamDeck XL with vMix shortcuts and scripting for everything else. As I say I use vMix for my switching but recently got an 'AVIWest BeOnAir A220' bonded cellular encoder for remote working. It's similar to the Teradek VidiU Go or LiveU gear. The A220 gives me ethernet, Wi-Fi and x2 internal 4G sim slots, plus potentially x2 dongle sim slots for connectivity to use in any combination I wish. What I have found is whatever settings I use in vMix for streaming it's just not as good a quality as the A220. A seasoned fellow vMix operator friend of mine stated he came to the same conclusion regarding hardware encoding too, hence my initial response to this thread. When I'm at my home studio I set an external output in vMix to render on an old BM Intensity Pro card and send it via HDMI to the A220. The A220 is connected via wired ethernet at home as I have really good speeds and don't want to use up valuable data with the sims. The quality of the stream is better and releases one of my x2 encoders from my GTX GPU for use on other things. I haven't pushed the limits on CPU (i9-7960) or GPU (GTX 1080TI) as yet, but I have had remote streams coming to the studio via three SRT streams from two different locations in the past, it's something I'm likely to try to increase in the future. I've never used Zoom as an input and not likely too either, I feel it's pretty poor quality, that said vMix Call (WebRTC), isn't much better either. SRT all the way in my opinion. I'm not sure if that answers your questions, but the reason I have the encoder was not to off load the stream encoding, it's for guaranteeing network connectivity for remote clients productions. I've just found that as a by product I got much better quality in my streams. I love vMix, but as I progress through my streaming journey, I'm kinda coming to the conclusion that there will definitely be a place for both hardware and software in my overall solution. Hope this helps.
And it should also get better, when they have more sattelites up in the sky. They planned much more as are up now. I think i will wait for one more year to give it a try.
They seem to be adding customers just as fast as they're adding satellites, if not faster. Based on what we've heard from beta testers, speeds have gotten slower over time, not faster. It's also clear that they're prioritizing download speeds over uploads, so I'm not sure how important that is going to be for them.
![[กูเพิ่งซื้อมึงปิดหนี] 20 นาที ผมรีวิวเกมที่แย่ที่สุดในโลก CONCORD](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/XhC-3q3Ii7I/mqdefault.jpg)
Finally someone who's not talking about "streaming netflix" (i.e downloading) and actually streaming streaming.
Hey Doug, we have been using Starlink as a primary internet connection for the past 3 weeks on a sports tour that has had no internet facilities on site. Have been using a LiveU solo with 2x 4g modems and it has been fantastic. Reliably streaming at 9-10mb.
@ Dylan Sheehan Starlink has just reached our island. I want to do live streaming across the country such as funerals. I have the liveu solo. Have not yet connected with any service provider or used the liveu. Would be glad to hear how I can go about this.
Awesome video, Doug! Thank you for posting this pretty useful video! I’ve used so many of your videos to learn industry standards, video production tips, and so on. Thank you for the effort! I’ve learned so much! :)
I would be curious to see the result using Haivision Makito X devices. Our local tv stations use this and it works quite good and with the gateway you can be on any public internet and its gonna work. Can do avc and or hevc depend the model. Also its encypted by using the SRT protocol.
Thanks Doug, nice wrap of info. As you say an emerging market, hopefully there will be "Pro" features and plans available soon, Cheers. Ian
I’m heading for Teradek CORE and HEVC.
Looks like Teradek has a new 4K streaming encoders, Prism, but I do not see that my application will ever demand more than 1080P.
Another factor to consider is whether for situations where you need Starlink you would be able to park your truck where you get a full view of the sky and can also connect your truck to the event.
True, but that's probably only an issue in dense urban environments or the narrowest of canyons. Where I live the dish points almost due North, and only needs a clear view above 40 degrees elevation to the North, East, and West, give or take. The Southern view can be much more obscured.
Hey. You finally populated the whole roof with solar panels. It looks amazing. Did you cut the rods that protruded from the roof?
Yes. Took care of that right after shooting the first video.
How can you hook starlink up to a streaming box like Resi if it’s only hardline
Starlink also has Wi-Fi. But, in my opinion, you should avoid using Wi-Fi when doing video streaming. Also, a single Starlink connection isn't fast enough on its own to stream video.
I've only used Starlink in non-critical environments, but I have used it for a ~2 hour local sports stream and it worked beautifully. I'd highly recommend looking in to using SRT instead of RTMP. SRT can generally be configured with up to a 7 second buffer that compensates for these dips in bandwidth or even short bouts of lost connectivity. I use Castr to bounce it out as a regular RTMP stream to services that don't support it. Also use SRT for cellular bonding scenarios.
SRT can be great, but not all streaming services support it, and not all encoders can create it either. I went with RTMP as the lowest common denominator.
@@djp_video Definitely outside the scope of this testing but it's worth checking out Office Hours' using bonded Starlink connections for their rocket club launch. Cool stuff! And exciting for future prospects.
The thing with Starlink bonding that kind of scares me is that two dishes in the same area are going to have the same bandwidth and reliability issues. So it can double your bandwidth, but if there aren't any satellites in view or obstructions then both connections will go down.
Hi Doug… when you were testing with OBS, did you try it with VBR (variable bit rate) ??
I used to get dropped frames periodically which I found unacceptable until I realized that if I changed the streaming rate control from CBR (constant, I think this is the default) to VBR, the dropped frames would basically go away and I would just have to live with “degraded” / fuzzy video frames. I found this to be much more acceptable.
Thanks for your testing and straight to the point reporting !
I did not. It’s a beta feature. But if it works as designed it should do just as you described.
Two diffrent things:
VBR Rate Control at output tab
and
'Dynamicly change bitrate to manage congestion' at Advanced tab - Network
At first one bitrate is continuosly changed depending on content, this gives an average lower bitrate than the selectet maximum.
At second one the constant bitrate is reduced if network bandwith decreases and rises if bandwith is available again.
Second one is beta, but seems to work well.
For testing i simulated bandwith by changing qos on my router.
OBS quickly reduces bitrate and tries to inrcrease step by step every minute or so until maximum possible bandwith is reached again.
I allready used this feature know for some minor important livestreams. It done well and really saved me some times.
@@Juergen_Miessmer Interesting. Thanks for the added clarification and making me realize there's two mechanisms that seem to be doing a very similar thing as the other. But the one I've been using is the first one, the non-beta option. I might experiment some myself to see how it compares for my situation.
Now a year later, and with the Starlink Flat High Performance dish and prioritized data plans, I would like to see if the Black Magic Design Web Presenter and ATEM perform any better.
Based on what I now know about how the Blackmagic stream devices work, there's just no way that it will ever work over a connection with inconsistent speeds and any measurable packet loss like a Starlink connection. Other streaming solutions might, but I just don't see that happening for a Web Presenter, ATEM Mini/SDI, or Studio Camera. They just weren't designed to cope with unpredictable connections like that.
HEVC Encoding is the way to go. Tested it with Nimble Streamer as Transcoder and Streaming Enocder. And it works very well. 1080p/60FPS at 4,5Mbit
Do you know any HEVC encoder witch dynamicly changes bitrate if bandwith is getting to low?
Can Nimble do this?
@@Juergen_Miessmer No thats not possible. But you can Encode your stream in various bitrates.
I stream on twitch. Couldn’t do 1080p 60 at 6000 bitrate. It fluctuates way too much. It may say you’re getting 10-20 upload speed but you’re not. I can do 720p 30 3000 bitrate with about 2-4% frame drop. But when you upload videos you’re getting those 10-20 upload speeds.
Thanks for going through the work for this evaluation. Do you have any similar content for cell networks (3G/4G LTE/5G, etc.)?
I haven't. Coverage varies so widely that such a comparison would likely only be relevant in my area. And even then it varies from one address to another. Whenever I need to use cellular I'll carry SIM cards for multiple carriers just in case one carrier has better coverage at one location than another, or even use multiple carriers for the greatest chance of having some level of redundancy.
re: pocket full of SIM cards, various carriers. Teradek supplies Telna SIMS with their NODE modems that integrate with the VidiU GO. Sierra Wireless also has a similar offering.Unlike dealing with the carriers direct as a consumer, these SIMs, if I understand them correctly, offer unlimited unthrottled data and they work with any carrier worldwide. The Telna SIMs are pay-as-you-go, not monthly contract, so though the cost per Gb may be somewhat higher, the reliability for someone like me who needs to stream from multiple locations in the future that cannot be predicted in advance, plus intermittent use - I’m not trying to watch Netflix in an RV - makes costs predictable, manageable, and thus billable. Telna and Sierra are not consumer brands, but the service they are providing is essential for commercial IoT devices where someone has equipment that can be shipped anywhere, installed without onsite engineering, and needs to work reliably. Streamers benefit, and this also simplifies a lot of connectivity variables and advance work onsite at broadcast locations.
One thing I've never figured out about the Teradek SIMs... how does the system know which carrier to use? Can you select one manually?
@@djp_video I wonder if the hardware they are installed in polls various carriers for best signal? It has to be sophisticated because these things are designed to deploy worldwide, so we’re not just talking about U.S. domestic carriers or, I suppose, a system that would be wrecked through inevitable mergers and acquisitions. In essence, I think both Telna and Sierra are peers to the telcos and have agreements in place for bulk bandwidth with almost everyone. But the mechanics of network switching and configuration are a mystery to me just yet.
Thanks. Very helpful.
Last week I was streaming ATEM Extreme Medium encoding over a combination of Starlink, 3 Geo satellites, and 3 LTE links. Ok it was overkill but the stream was quite reliable. 😀
Seems like a great use case for a Resi encoder.
Hey Doug, great video, thanks for all your hard work and all your posts that have been a great resource. A quick question, with the BM Extreme, have you tried to do a test with a mobile device attached, using one of the USB-C ports on the extreme, in order to maintain bandwidth like the Teradek? And how does the cellular backup standup? Many thanks 😊
The cellular option is only for backup. It doesn't combine bandwidth from the two connections. And it will only switch if one becomes completely non-functional.
Very helpful video. It will help my consideration for the service. Does Starlink have the capacity to control bandwidth consistency? What's the rate of drop of the upload speed with your tests?
There are a lot of factors -- distance from the satellite, obstructions, how much other users in your area are using the service, so it can fluctuate quite a lot and do so fairly quickly.
Check out this site for a best estimate as to how the signals flow. (It's only an estimate and not necessarily the actual signal path) starlink.sx/
Hi Doug, again good theme. Its declare your profi experience! One problem. I bought 1 month ago bmd web. 4k. 🤔. On the bassis your video. I have some negative skills with buffering data in web presenter 4k. That problem is allso with all internet decrease conection.
It appears that the Teradek you were using has H.265 HEVC encoding. This may account for why you weren't able to stream directly to web services that are likely still on H.264 AVC. I would be interested to see a test with a more advanced broadcast grade encoder. How will an HEVC equipped LiveU, TVU or Dejero pack perform? We have had success using LiveU over KA satellite internet connections but these were geosynchronous satellites that offered low but relatively stable bandwidth. I would wager that your encoder will make all the difference here.
It has h.265 as an option when streaming through their Core service where it is transcoded to h.264. I did not test that functionality. Everything I did was using h.264.
I was able to stream directly. I do it all the time. But with Starlink the varying upload bandwidth is problematic. When the upload speed drops below what the VidiU is trying to send it will just stop streaming, unless you’re using Sharelink or Core. When you use those services the VidiU will adjust its encoding bitrate to existing conditions.
Doug, If with BMD ATEM is possible to change the bitrate without interrupting the stream, do you think it would be possible to enable a dynamic bitrate change with a firmware update?
I would think so
I am going to be livestreaming a large outdoor event and want to have our own dedicated network for streaming. I reached out to a company and they suggested starlink, but after doing research, it seems that it alone is not sufficient. What kind of network solutions have you used in the past for outdoor events when their network was not sufficient? Thanks for all the informative videos!
Bonded cellular -- multiple USB modems and/or cell phones with VidiU encoders going to Teradek ShareLink or Core.
Hi Doug. So you take your Starlink subscription, and then you can change your location as much as you like ?
I haven’t personally tried it, but there are numerous people on the internet who use it with RVs and do change locations constantly without issue.
We’re you able to find a liveu solo to test it with? Curious to see results! Could have borrowed one of mine but I’m in Australia
I have not
im trying to figure out what the best OBS setting will be while using Starlink
In my experience streaming OBS with Starlink for the past few month is that when i turn on OBS adaptable bit rate i dont drop froms but the quality randomly lowers alot and gets blocky.
Doug have you tried using Boxcaster or Boxcaster Pro with your Starlink system?
No. But unless it was explicitly designed to handle connections with widely varying bandwidth, it likely wouldn't work very well.
Here in Holland (EU) starlink is superfast, upload 39 mps download 200 mps.
I’ll see those kinds of speeds sometimes too.
The problem with trying to stream video via Starlink is its speed variability. When it has its occasional drops in speed, or brief pauses as it tends to do, it breaks many streaming devices and software. You have to take into consideration the minimum speeds that happen from time to time when trying to do something that requires consistently like real-time video streaming, which Starlink does not do well.
Good stuff, Doug! Thank you.
Might speeds may vary by location?
There will be some fluctuation, yes. But probably not as much as you might think. These signals are travelling hundreds of miles.
Hi Doug, thanks for that information.
OBS can maintain the bitrate by monitoring the network connection.
It is stated beta, but i have good experience with that opttion.
Have you tried this option?
I have a newsspotter contract since 6 years know. Its a viasat service using KA band geostationary satelite. With this contract it is possible to reservate bandwith exclusively. I have to pay 50€ per GB, but i had no bandwith problem ever.
I also use 4G bonding acros our 3 difrennt cellular providers. But newsspotter is the relliable service for big events, when thousands of people are present on location and due this 4G is unusable for streaming.
I'm in europe, maybe the service is named different in US.
I was thinking of starlink for the future, as the KA-Sat is getting closer to his end of livetime.
It would be great if starlink would offer a contract like newsspotter, but i never heard of such plan, i hope....
It looks like Newsspotter is Europe-only. I've tried looking for something similar here in the USA and haven't had much luck. But 50 Euros per gig would get prohibitive really quickly. Not many of my customers would be okay with that, considering that decent quality 1080p streaming is going to be in the 6+ GB/hour range.
@@djp_video
Yes it is expensive, but much cheaper than the KU band service used by our broadcasters. Good thing is, there is no monthly fee, i only have to pay for used or reservated traffic.
My customers do accept it, if there is no other solution available but a good picture quality is recommended.
Usualy i reservate 4 Gbit/sec.
Straming 1080p25 in h265 at 3500 bit/s video + aac 160 bit/s audio.
As most stream sevices do recomend h264, i restream this with ffmpeg running on one of my own rootservers. This sends a good quality 7000 bit/s rtmp(s) stream.
But to be honest, there are also some disadvatages:
I need clear sight to the south sky. Each objekt (even trees) needs to be 3 times far away, than its height.
The dish has to be adjusted very well. Its a very narrow beam.
The signal has to travel about 40000 kilometers to the satelite. Normal rain is no problem, but dark clouds can cause to much damping.
And at least it is only one satelite/system:
Some weeks ago the service was completly down for a couple of days, because some bad guys hacked into it and distributed some bad firmware wich bricked all client modems.
Fotunatly mine were not online at this time.
Hey dude, I have a LiveU solo with LRT, would be happy to send it to you to test with Starlink
Awesome, thank you! Reach out to me at djp.li/contact
How well would this work on a sailboat (not live streaming). We are looking for higher bandwidth than iridium go, and less cost than inmarsat ($20,000 or so for stabilized dish and two years 4g service). How much is the antenna? Inmarsat and iridium have been the only options for in the literal middle of nowhere on the water, and starlink looks promising as a third option as long as the antenna can handle a rolling/pitching/yawing platform. I saw a teardown of a starlink antenna about a year ago, and it all depends on the switching speeds of the phase chips for the panel.
I have no way of knowing that.
I've seen a video where a guy literally just attached his dish to the top of his car with magnets (so the steering motors normally found in the dish were not present) and he said that service was quite good.
The dish is currently $550, with $110/month for service.
Hey Doug! Great video. A Sharelink question. Which user agent should you use, FMLE or Teradek and what is the difference?
In almost all cases you'd want to use FMLE. The only exception is you were streaming to a device that requires a Teradek device.
@@djp_video Ok, thanx! 👍🏻 I recently bought the Wave. I also found out the hard way that the Wave just stops streaming if it doesn’t have enough bandwidth
I get consistent and excellent results using the Vidiu Pro, at it's highest setting of 5Mbs and frame rate high. I shoot amatuer sports content with fast moving action, with little or no artifacts. Have you any thoughts on the Yolobox Pro from Yololiv. So far I've been left dissapointed by it's poor streamimg and recording performance with it constantly dropping frame rates resulting in choppy / glitchy footage.
I haven't tried any of the Yolobox products. They've reached out to me to do a review, but I don't see myself ever using it so I've never accepted their invitations.
@@djp_video probably the best decision you've ever made.
Can that teradek box give internet to the computer, acting as an adapter of sorts?
I have someone who wants to do podcasts through zoom video call, and they have starlink. I've tested the calls, and it's unreliable, dropping connection.
I was thinking about getting a prepaid AT&T data plan, and using something to combine the two internets. Any advice? Thanks!
No; the bonding feature is only for streaming video.
If you are familar with linux, maybe OpenMPTCProuter is a solution for you to bond that two connectiions.
You need a rootserver located in a datacenter and localy a raspberri PI and an ethernet switch.
@@Juergen_Miessmer interesting, I'll look into it. Thanks
friend good afternoon, how are you.... Starlink released the internet to Brazil in January 2022, so it's still very new, have you ever broadcast video in HD? have data packet loss or scanning? I'm interested in subscribing to starlink for mochilink broadcast in live journalism link for our television station, do you think it works well? thanks
I always stream in HD. For testing, I streamed in 1080p at 30 fps... but the important setting for reliable streaming is bitrate. For my testing I used rates anywhere from 3 up to 12 Mbps. 3 Mbps worked most of the time, with just occasional glitches.
Is it true, that the new starlink sets with sqare dishes do not have an ethernet conector? Only wifi?
The router itself does not have an Ethernet connector. They sell a little breakout box for $25 that will give you Ethernet. (which is how I use mine)
@@djp_video
thanks, Doug.
Is this breakout box a wired connection, or just a wifi to ethernet bridge?
It's wired. No WiFi involved.
Where are you located Doug? I’m in New York and have a LiveU
I'm in Utah.
I’m sorry Doug I wish we lived closer I would definitely let you borrow it
I think it would have been great to see the actual footage being streamed with the different devices not just your description through words. Please, test LiveU which is really known for the reliability.
That would have been a tremendous amount of footage to go through. My testing went for more than 40 hours and I was making changes to the encoder configurations constantly while trying to monitor device status and live stream quality at the same time. Trying to take sufficient notes during all of that would have been a bit overwhelming. Some of the live streams themselves are still up (I can share links if you care), but I don't have a record of what the settings are at any given point in time so the streams are not that useful.
I reached out on my Discord server to see if anyone had a LiveU I could borrow/rent, but nobody did, and rental rates are ridiculous. And I certainly wasn't going to buy one just for this video.
@@djp_video about the liveu, that's sad. I have one and want to know if starlink would work for me.
@@josephgriffith3944 I still haven't had anyone volunteer one, and I can't justify buying one just for a video.
About Starlink, though... the speeds have gotten considerably worse since I shot this video. It isn't remotely capable of handling streamed video as it currently stands. I hope that it gets better with more satellites and ground stations.
I definitely would like to get a hardware encoder, but I really like OBS’s ability to switch scenes and how easy it is to run graphic overlays since I can’t afford software and someone to run it. But if anyone knows of a good way to take the free from obs directly and run it through hardware encoding I’d be all ears
Would this help you? th-cam.com/video/9YqZ6Ogv3rk/w-d-xo.html
I send my output from my streaming software to an HDMI outputs on one of my capture cards and then plug it into my encoder.
You can output OBS programm to a second screen. Instead the screen connect the harware encoder.
in 'studio mode' right click on the program screen and select the second monitor.
But why?
If OBS or the conputers OS crashes, youre lost. It dosnt matter then, if encoding is done by software or hardware.
In my opinion you have to run everything on hardware to gain safety.
@@Juergen_Miessmer Good point however, I've found that the quality of the stream is far better via my encoder than the software, it also frees an encoder on my GPU for SRT etc.
@@Doggo-404
Better quality? Wich encoder are you using? Are the encoder settings comparabel to them in OBS encoder?
I have set up a small studio in customers facility for weekly livestreams. OBS, one camera via decklink, zoom for external guests, voicemeeter for audio mixing, companian to control, tally arbiter and NDI for routing and monitor. All runs on one workstation with two GPUs and 4 connected Monitors.
CPU load for encoding only is about 7%, whole setup including encoding/recording runs at 25% load. So why save that 7%?
I tried GPU encoding (nvenc and quicksync), but CPU encoding gave better quality and no framedrops.
(OBS itself uses Nvidia GPU , and zoom uses AMD CPU, so maybe that is the reason for the framedrops when using GPU encoding)
@@Juergen_Miessmer
I have a similar setup, as in one PC being the workhorse running vMix 4K, an X32 for audio and I use a StreamDeck XL with vMix shortcuts and scripting for everything else.
As I say I use vMix for my switching but recently got an 'AVIWest BeOnAir A220' bonded cellular encoder for remote working. It's similar to the Teradek VidiU Go or LiveU gear.
The A220 gives me ethernet, Wi-Fi and x2 internal 4G sim slots, plus potentially x2 dongle sim slots for connectivity to use in any combination I wish.
What I have found is whatever settings I use in vMix for streaming it's just not as good a quality as the A220.
A seasoned fellow vMix operator friend of mine stated he came to the same conclusion regarding hardware encoding too, hence my initial response to this thread.
When I'm at my home studio I set an external output in vMix to render on an old BM Intensity Pro card and send it via HDMI to the A220.
The A220 is connected via wired ethernet at home as I have really good speeds and don't want to use up valuable data with the sims.
The quality of the stream is better and releases one of my x2 encoders from my GTX GPU for use on other things.
I haven't pushed the limits on CPU (i9-7960) or GPU (GTX 1080TI) as yet, but I have had remote streams coming to the studio via three SRT streams from two different locations in the past, it's something I'm likely to try to increase in the future.
I've never used Zoom as an input and not likely too either, I feel it's pretty poor quality, that said vMix Call (WebRTC), isn't much better either.
SRT all the way in my opinion.
I'm not sure if that answers your questions, but the reason I have the encoder was not to off load the stream encoding, it's for guaranteeing network connectivity for remote clients productions. I've just found that as a by product I got much better quality in my streams.
I love vMix, but as I progress through my streaming journey, I'm kinda coming to the conclusion that there will definitely be a place for both hardware and software in my overall solution.
Hope this helps.
performance should get better when they get all the laser links up and running
That's gonna take a bit. :) And won't that only help if a ground station is busy or otherwise inaccessible?
@@djp_video no, that should also handle network load balancing
And it should also get better, when they have more sattelites up in the sky. They planned much more as are up now.
I think i will wait for one more year to give it a try.
They seem to be adding customers just as fast as they're adding satellites, if not faster. Based on what we've heard from beta testers, speeds have gotten slower over time, not faster. It's also clear that they're prioritizing download speeds over uploads, so I'm not sure how important that is going to be for them.