@@DowStUnD86 unless god kills them in misscarriage or big floods or rain or rain down fire from heaven on a sinful city? Or if god commands the chosen people to murder all people including babys in the promised lands? Murder inocent babys is wrong unless god does it rigth?
Do you distinguish between a human and a person? Example: My grandfather was a person whole I was very close to. He was also a human. In 2018, he had a massive stroke and went brain dead during surgery after another. At that point, the "person" who was my grandfather was gone. He was, however, by all accounts, a living human. I see life and death as identical spaces/concepts/dimensions. Is this a reason athiests lean towards pro-choice?
yeah ive noticed (and maybe tolorated) that :(. ''pro lifer's'' seem to placate the arguer with) "" bugt but its bad for the femons "".. maybe its gynohysteria :(. would anyone ever say to a male mrderer: "but dont do cos its bad for him"?? and thast the first theme you touched on... as as i thought: maybe i had those thoughts alreasy but im falable, and u might drop something i dont already maybe-think? anyweay.. maybe the bottom line is: dont maybe-venerate one sex and hate the other? Gs man
ive noticed (and maybe tolorated) that :(. ''pro lifer's'' seem to placate the arguer with) "" bugt but its bad for the femons "".. maybe its gynohysteria :(. would anyone ever say to a male mrderer: "but dont do cos its bad for him"?? and thast the first theme you touched on... as as i thought: maybe i had those thoughts alreasy but im falable, and u might drop something i dont already maybe-think? anyweay.. maybe the bottom line is: dont maybe-venerate one sex and hate the other? Gs man
The view that the only argument worth having is whether or not the unborn are human ignores all the harm that abortion bans cause and it seems like you acknowledge that but are claiming that the rights of a person that doesn’t exist (in any meaningful sense) is more important than the rights of someone who is already here. You want to have an argument that neither side can win because the concept of when a bunch of cells makes to transition to a proper human being is a philosophical question. Some believe it’s at conception, I personally think that a baby isn’t a human being in an any meaningful sense until it has autonomy (as in being born). I think the real argument to have is what set of policies results in the most harm reduction and if you consider abortion harmful, there are far more effective ways to prevent abortion, largely by preventing unwanted pregnancy in the first place with education and accessible resources, but that’s never really part of the discussion because at the end of the day, you don’t really care what happens to the mother or the baby.
the person does exist, and you want to kill them. A moral compass that allows you to kill the most defenseless of people - is a moral compass that allows for basically ALL other atrocities. Because there is no evil more absurd and more extreme than to kill a baby in the womb. There is nothing more depraved or repugnant. Once you put that on the table - ANYTHING is on the table. It is the door that opens all doors to all evils. Not acknowledging that the baby is alive or is human only makes the depravity WORSE. It doesnt make the moral issue go away. Its simply science denial, and reality denial…. and for the purposes of killing it for you own gain. Corruption at the highest level. And, it lies to and harms women as well.
to say preventing unwanted pregnancies is never talked about is a lie. And that we dont care about what happens to the mothers or the babies is delusional gaslighting
To begin, we largely agree on pro-choice. However, you're making the argument that the ends justify the means here. You can't skip over the "human or not" part of the argument because the person you're talking to LITERALLY thinks: you support murder because the outcomes are just. You gotta address the key issue before pointing out any chain-reactions that you think outweigh the "immorality" of the abortion itself. I like bringing the discussion towards ending life support because I think they hold a lot in common personally. Since I believe consciousness/some level of independent brain activity is a necessary part of being human, I think pulling the plug on a brain dead coma patient is 100% moral. Sure, they've got the DNA of a human and I colloquially refer to them as people but at the end of the day, there's an element that is no longer there. The argument of human or not is the only argument; it's one reason why pro-choice opinions vary wildly on what time frame is appropriate.
@@ithurtsbecauseitstrue if you realy cared you would be all for a nany state with high taxes to pay for the millions of unwanted hated kids but nooooo the dollars is more important that babys...
Who else saw the title and thumbnail and thought the three words to change the whole dynamic of the conversation were "I HATE WOMEN" 😂😂
Never interupt your enemy when they are ending their own family line.
Like the leftist women on a sex strike over the last election.
Pro choice here to learn what the enemys argument are...😁
Well the argument is very simple. It is not ok to murder innocent babies.
@@DowStUnD86 unless god kills them in misscarriage or big floods or rain or rain down fire from heaven on a sinful city? Or if god commands the chosen people to murder all people including babys in the promised lands? Murder inocent babys is wrong unless god does it rigth?
Do you distinguish between a human and a person?
Example: My grandfather was a person whole I was very close to. He was also a human. In 2018, he had a massive stroke and went brain dead during surgery after another. At that point, the "person" who was my grandfather was gone. He was, however, by all accounts, a living human. I see life and death as identical spaces/concepts/dimensions. Is this a reason athiests lean towards pro-choice?
yeah ive noticed (and maybe tolorated) that :(. ''pro lifer's'' seem to placate the arguer with) "" bugt but its bad for the femons "".. maybe its gynohysteria :(. would anyone ever say to a male mrderer: "but dont do cos its bad for him"?? and thast the first theme you touched on... as as i thought: maybe i had those thoughts alreasy but im falable, and u might drop something i dont already maybe-think?
anyweay.. maybe the bottom line is: dont maybe-venerate one sex and hate the other? Gs man
1 look at you and I can see why 😂
I don't hate them. I just don't really enjoy there company anymore
ive noticed (and maybe tolorated) that :(. ''pro lifer's'' seem to placate the arguer with) "" bugt but its bad for the femons "".. maybe its gynohysteria :(. would anyone ever say to a male mrderer: "but dont do cos its bad for him"?? and thast the first theme you touched on... as as i thought: maybe i had those thoughts alreasy but im falable, and u might drop something i dont already maybe-think?
anyweay.. maybe the bottom line is: dont maybe-venerate one sex and hate the other? Gs man
The view that the only argument worth having is whether or not the unborn are human ignores all the harm that abortion bans cause and it seems like you acknowledge that but are claiming that the rights of a person that doesn’t exist (in any meaningful sense) is more important than the rights of someone who is already here. You want to have an argument that neither side can win because the concept of when a bunch of cells makes to transition to a proper human being is a philosophical question. Some believe it’s at conception, I personally think that a baby isn’t a human being in an any meaningful sense until it has autonomy (as in being born). I think the real argument to have is what set of policies results in the most harm reduction and if you consider abortion harmful, there are far more effective ways to prevent abortion, largely by preventing unwanted pregnancy in the first place with education and accessible resources, but that’s never really part of the discussion because at the end of the day, you don’t really care what happens to the mother or the baby.
the person does exist, and you want to kill them. A moral compass that allows you to kill the most defenseless of people - is a moral compass that allows for basically ALL other atrocities. Because there is no evil more absurd and more extreme than to kill a baby in the womb. There is nothing more depraved or repugnant. Once you put that on the table - ANYTHING is on the table. It is the door that opens all doors to all evils.
Not acknowledging that the baby is alive or is human only makes the depravity WORSE. It doesnt make the moral issue go away. Its simply science denial, and reality denial…. and for the purposes of killing it for you own gain. Corruption at the highest level.
And, it lies to and harms women as well.
to say preventing unwanted pregnancies is never talked about is a lie. And that we dont care about what happens to the mothers or the babies is delusional gaslighting
You don’t like having the conversation about when a human being becomes a person because your position is logically indefensible.
To begin, we largely agree on pro-choice. However, you're making the argument that the ends justify the means here. You can't skip over the "human or not" part of the argument because the person you're talking to LITERALLY thinks: you support murder because the outcomes are just. You gotta address the key issue before pointing out any chain-reactions that you think outweigh the "immorality" of the abortion itself.
I like bringing the discussion towards ending life support because I think they hold a lot in common personally. Since I believe consciousness/some level of independent brain activity is a necessary part of being human, I think pulling the plug on a brain dead coma patient is 100% moral. Sure, they've got the DNA of a human and I colloquially refer to them as people but at the end of the day, there's an element that is no longer there.
The argument of human or not is the only argument; it's one reason why pro-choice opinions vary wildly on what time frame is appropriate.
@@ithurtsbecauseitstrue if you realy cared you would be all for a nany state with high taxes to pay for the millions of unwanted hated kids but nooooo the dollars is more important that babys...