My Top 2 D&D-Alternatives
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Here are my top 2 picks for fantasy d20-system TTRPGs that aren't Dungeons & Dragons 5e ▶️ More below! ⏬
Learn Pathfinder 2e
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00:00 support NICE ttrpg publishers!
01:20 why these 2 games are easy to learn!
02:13 "play pathfinder" here's why
05:29 campaign organization tool (sponsored)
06:37 why pathfinder isn't MY top choice
07:16 everything I love about DCCRPG
12:15 magic is better in Dungeon Crawl Classics
13:06 the new game I'm excited for!
13:44 top suggestion from the community!
14:50 exploring dnd's Old School Revival...
#opendnd #pathfinder #dccrpg - เกม
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Pathfinder is easily the superior version of d&d, but still really overrated.
The real superior game is DCC, so I would recommend that first and foremost.
My personal pick and favorite game in the genre is The Last Torch, an obscure game really known here in Italy that is often dismissed for it's simplicity but one of the deepest system I had the pleasure to play!
3:48 hi ive being looking to run a path finder campign but ive being diswaded due to the lack of races and classes, were do i find those supplemental classes and races. my google fu has failed me could you please link were that class page that shows up at 3:48
New update on D&D Beyond
In regards to the OGL issue, I highly recommend that people listen to the podcast Opening Arguments episode 675 and 677.
LegalEagle also made a video on the topic, and he also recommend that people listen to the OA podcast!
How do ya roll the dice in DCC? Are there physical versions or are they all online?
I loved the change you did in the sentence: "Where we learn having more fun playing RPG together ". I like D&D, but rpg scene is so much bigger than only D&D...the sentence now brings a universe of endless possibilities! Really good
That made me smile !
Thank you! Wayyy back in the day I used this phrasing a few times, but I realized I pretty much only talked about D&D, so I switched to that. Now times are changing!
It's kinda a throwback to the 80's and 90's in a way. DnD has always been the most popular but it was never the defacto RPG. In the 80's 90's and, even the 00's I guess, there was more variety and more people willing to play different games. Then that kinda died out for a time. Now it seems many people have developed curiosity again.
@@dimesonhiseyes9134 The curiosity for a variety of role playing games always existed. outside the US.
I doubt that the rpg scene is bigger than D&D, honestly. More people know about D&D than about other systems.
Even Bob a dude who tried really hard to avoid any of the one D&D drama and stay positive and cheer the team on sort of thing has come off the top rope with snark. Well done Bob well done
Everyone's patience has a limit
I kind of hate it, but I understand it. I admire the Pathfinder folks for just how much content they produce. I could never get totally into it though. Hopefully I'll "get it" someday. Never really took a look at DCC.
😊
Woe is me, how fast the shill bootlickers turn on daddy WotC! No hate targeted towards Bob, but let's not see the tides turning and the "influencers" trying to leave and scurry from the sinking ship as some gotcha heroic act lmao
@@MightyGachiman sir this is a Wendy's
I love Pathfinder 2, as a player, but especially as a DM. IT HAS A FUNCTIONING ENCOUNTER BUILDER! I vastly underestimated how much that takes the boring stuff out of my prep work, so I can focus on plot, fleshing out characters and inserting bad jokes.
YES!! As the forever DM I have to say that's the aspect I appreciate most about pf2e, it's the best and easiest encounter building I've ever done
yeah I have to agree the best thing about Pathfinder 2e is how well building encounters works. you will never "Accidently" TPK your party.
@@scottcarter6623 unless you don't know how the creature level system works
Bad jokes are half the job xD
Man for real, I was able to bumble through a game (no prep, new system, a little tipsy) like butter on PF2E
In case no-one pointed it out before: Old-School Essentials is actually a cleaned up version of Moldvay/Cooke Basic/Expert D&D (B/X in short). There is an Advanced Fantasy expansion that adds aspects from AD&D but in a B/X-compatible form.
Indeed. And here we can mention actual cleaned up clone of AD&D which is OSRIC.
Basic Fantasy is also an excellent OSR system that's super accessible, especially coming from more modern D20 systems. I've found it a little easier to introduce modern players to, especially ones who are put off by the old school "races are classes" style. It's also completely free online and physical copies are sold at cost so they're super cheap.
Just ordered the PF2e core rule book when Paizo offered up the open gaming discount last week. I really liked their response to the whole OGL situation, so I’m giving their system a shot. The best part is that I can still use my awesome BWB dice.
I want to get into it, the vast majority of my D&D experience is in 2nd, 3rd and 3.5, so I'm hoping I'll take to it fairly quickly
I’m brand new to PF2e, but what I have read of the rules so far I absolutely love. There is so much more depth to the rules and the quality of the 1st party content is vastly superior to what WotC produces for dnd.
I have been playing Pathfinder for a pretty long time now and one thing that might be weird comming over from 5e is that characters in Pathfinder (both 1e and 2e) scale up their DCs and skill bonuses extremely fast. Pathfinder 2e has an optional rule where the character level doesn't get added to skills, so the modifyer is based on proficiency (trained, expert, master, legendary) and the corresponding stat alone. I personally recommend playing that way if you don't plan on leaning in on the more extreme aspects of late game power fantasy, and the Archives of Nethys wiki has an option for all monster stat blocks to calculate their DCs and modifyers in the same way so it's not really a lot of extra work as a GM.
PF2e is great. A younger version of myself would be so mad that it took D&D messing up this bad for people to finally try it, but older me is just happy to see players branching out more. 5e had it's strengths, but anyone who has yet to try other TTRPGs is in for a great surprise to see just how many amazing systems exist out there. It's like playing Monopoly every week for a year, then your friend brings over Catan, and you start wondering what else you can find lol.
It's so crunchy tho 😞 I supported them by buying their 2e book, but I won't be moving my players to it, but good luck with it. I think I'll be moving players to a forged in the dark campaign or through the breach campaign
"They won--but so did we." lol. LOVE DCC. So wacky and fun. Love those critical hit charts.
I'll never forget that line haha
DCC is ridiculously fun, and the charts for fumbles and Crits really drive the story forward.
Roll 2d12 damage and attack again
Ayyyyo love the shoutout on how magic functions in DCC and Shadowdark. Cheers Bob!
13th age is my favorite D20 game. I love the ways they have made the classes mechanically interesting, and give players some ability to affect the narrative outside of the normal rules which has lead to some quite creative solutions to some tricky problems.
As a GM, I love running 13th Age.
Each class feels distinct and take good ideas from 4e D&D's design while also making it feel much more like a traditional d20 system.
On miss effects being common makes players feel like they are contributing even if the d20 rolled poorly, and various effects being based on the natural roll of the die also add a bit of extra fun factor.
Combat is generally quicker than 5e or PF2e, but that is due to players having less options. Some people will not like that, but some people will also appreciate it.
The background point system is brilliant design and my players have a higher degree of satisfaction with it than any skill system.
On top of all of this, the 13th Age book is the best read of any rule book I have read. The designer include a bunch of asides where they talk about why they ended up with a rule or how you might want to change it. They have an overall conversational tone with the reader that helped me to realize that the rules are really just there to facilitate an experience.
We're playing 13th Age at the moment. The guy running it thinks it's what 4e should have been. Personally though, my favourite d20 game is Whitehack (or Basic Fantasy RPG if you want a more traditional D&D game which sort of emulates B/X with some d20isms). I know neither of those are D&D, but they're totally "D&D".
The only tweak I would have would be a Soulbound-like update to the zone-based combat. That can be done painlessly at the table though.
I prefer Pathfinder 2 but 13th Age is a close second place. It's brilliant. Period.
13th Age accomplished something I wouldn't have thought possible: it turned D&D into a full-on storytelling game. The mechanics they created to accomplish this are uniformly ingenious. You can see how much thought went into every rule. And as a bonus, it's my favorite core rulebook in terms of writing. The designer notes, particularly the ones in which they disagree, are always interesting. And the book actually displays a sense of humor. That's rare in RPG rules.
I watched your video "The BEST House Rule for Martial Characters" a week ago and instantly my brain was like "WHAT IS THAT AMAZING BOOK?!?" from just seeing the cover. Ended up grabbing it and mutant crawl classics after erring and arring about it.
Truly hits a vibe and feel of the stories my Dad told me from his old-school sessions.
So seeing it pop up in this video really cements that it was a good choice to grab. As your opinions and viewpoints are always on spot for what I like.
Now I just need to stop chatting about it as me and my brother read it, and actually run a funnel.
That’s awesome to hear! Glad you’re also liking DCC!
So glad to see Pathfinder 2e in the spotlight! Some notable tools that really helped me transition:
1)Wanderer's Guide and Pathbuilder 2e are amazing character creation tools, and really help new players conceptualize builds
2)Goblin Fight Club is an amazing tool for GMs to help balance combat encounters for parties of any size
Are those builders free? I use hephaestus for starfinder so that's the only thing I know for paizo tools.
@@Lycaon1765 both of them are free to use. Pathbuilder has all of the same feats and equipment, however there's a fee of like $6.79 to use the variant rules and add custom items (note that your purchase doesnt transfer from PC to android app). Wanderers guide is entirely free, from variant rules to adding custom equipment, however i believe it is PC only
Hmm, checking out Wanderer's Guide atm. Good to have another free builder, but so far I personally like Pathbuilder. I know it costs money to have full access, which kinda sucks, but the interface feels much more streamlined so far.
+1 for DCC! This game has really reignited my love for DMing. I’m also surprised by how much my players love running funnels.
Love DCC! Fun, simple to play but really varied. Very freeing after 5e!
If you're a GM switching over to Pathfinder 2e, a big mind-blowing change is the rules for encounter building actually work and create balanced encounters. Blew my mind after 5e.
They're magical and imho the best encounter building system in all of rpg atm
I'm gonna say that part of this is that every class has both attack roll and save mechanics. It's a minor, often-overlooked thing, but it means that a threat isn't generally trivialized by a certain class or archetype/near impossible without it. That's a large chunk of the problem with D&D's CR system.
Here in Brazil, we have a d20 fantasy rpg called Tormenta 20, Is very popular here. The cool thig about it is that uses Mana Point for magic, the classes are very customizables, and the lore is very unique with its own races and game mechanics.
Interesting! Are there any English translations available?
@@Falkenhorst2000 There is a free module in Roll20 in English, with some basic rules
I love finding out about games i never would of heard of🤘
OMG Bob! I just bought DCC and the pathfinder beginner box this week! I want you to cover both of them! Go wild! Exclamation points!! Haha, I kind of over did it there, but holy cow, please cover both of these. I'd love to learn them together with you and the community. Both look so rad. I've been really looking into pf2e and the most exciting thing for me is everyone says its easier on the dm.
Haha, Good choices!! :D
Just picked up DCC last weekend. First session is this Saturday. Really excited for it.
Hope you enjoy it!!
Try to read "quick primer for old school gaming" :) Matt Finch explain so nice here
Good luck and enjoy!
I'm more of a PbtA guy, but 13th Age would be a great RPG if you are looking to leave 5e and want to stay with a d20 system.
I've heard some good things about 13th age!
So happy to see someone recommending DCC!
An often overlooked part of DCC is that each of the character types has special abilities and rules to make them fun and interesting in their own way, a form of niche establishment. Warriors with Deed Dice, Lucky Rogues, and magical corruption or divine displeasure all add a lot to the game.
And I'm happy to recommend it! :)
I've been playing Pathfinder 2e for 2 years now. It's an amazing system! Great balance between classes and fun, tactical, engaging combat mechanics.
Question: How is the "Theme" of PF 2e? I have the books, but I'm yet to run a game. But I'm worried it may be a little too high fantasy for the setting I'm building. Is lower fantasy feasible on it? Or golarion has magic item shops?
@@JhonnyB694 so the monsters are actually balanced towards players getting magic items to fight with, but I believe they have varient rules where there is additional char progression to keep them up to par with monster scaling. Nonat1s has a video where he ranks the varient rules of pf2e and I believe he talks about this specific varient rule as well
@@JhonnyB694 I'll also add though that it is entirely possible to play with only martial classes specialized in different areas of combat and using medicine and resting to heal if you don't want any spellcasting
@@JhonnyB694 The basic combat progression requires magic items, mainly in the form of magical runes applied to weapons and armor. If you want to have a lower fantasy setting you will need either the Automatic Bonus Progression or the High Quality Equipment variant rules. You can find them in the Gamemastery Guide or, of course, on Archives of Nethys. In a nutshell, at higher levels combat without +1, +2 or +3 weapons and armor is highly penalizing, so either you introduce mundane equipment with the bonus, or you bake in those bonuses into the characters as a part of leveling up.
@@JhonnyB694 Spellcasters definitely like to have scrolls and staves to supplement their spell lists, but the Automatic Bonus Progression rules take out the necessary numerical magic stuff (runes and all that), so you can use that to de-emphasize the role of magic items in the world.
I am excited for Shadowdark and I'm glad you brought it up, Bob. The Arcane Library has been my biggest help into easing myself in the DM's chair. She's always been great at making short and easy-to-follow adventures. Can't wait what to see what she has in store for her own game.
The previews of Shadowdark look fantastic. Clean, modern mechanics merged with an old-school style (e.g. characters aren't superheroes with a full Magic the Gathering deck of feats). Also, great art!
I only recently heard about it, but I like what I've heard!
I really like Low Fantasy Gaming or LFG by Pickpocket Press. I think it's a great simplified version of 5e and fits really well with the Sword & Sorcery genre. Its combat system is really creative, and it allows to play very customizable characters, including non-magical rangers and monks.
I'm looking for systems with less magic, thank you !
A more simplified version of 5e? Is that possible? J/k
I find 5e rules quite boring because of how simple they are.
@@pzalterias5154 5e is is considered a quit high complexity level in the ttrpg world.from 1-10 most people i heard givin it a 7
this is my recommendation too. I find Pathfinder a bit high magic and too complex. On the other hand, I like DCC a lot, but the weird dice turn me off. My group tried out Low Fantasy Gaming and really liked it a lot. It's a happy middle.
I bought the deluxe addition,the expansion and the 3rd party player companion (its like a dollar ). Very good read. Its like the perfect middle ground between osr and 5e. Enough build and action complexity to keep things interesting. But enough open rules and danger thats will keep player engagement
Dungeon Crawl Classics is so good. I love it. It feels like the D&D of old, and it has such an awesome magic system. Definitely check it out.
I'm excited to see Shadow of the Weird Wizard, the less gore-y version of Shadow of the Demon Lord. The character progression and action economy in SotDL is very interesting, and IMO more suited for a lot of D&D players who prefer a rules-light system than PF2e, and I'm a big fan of PF2e (seriously, Bob you must read about Gnomes lore in Pathfinder).
Last time I've read about it, SotWW was in playtest, so we're probably have it soon!
Weird Wizard is expected to hit Kickstarter this year. Rob had some family health situations that slowed progress.
Playtest concluded last week and it is now on the final steps to the Kickstarter campaign, which should launch in March according to Rob. Hopefully everything works out🤞
Ahh yeah maybe pathfinder LORE is the way I'll keep in touch with it. I'll keep an eye out for updates on SotWW!
YAY, looking forward to PF2e content from Bob!
*probably* some PF content haha, I think that most of my 'advice' style videos will still apply to PF, but I don't think I'm going to dig very deep into the system. We'll see how it goes after I try the beginner box :)
Pathfinder branched from D&D in 3.5 and it shows. It’s *ABSOLUTELY* D&D, but almost as far from 5e as you can get given that fact.
I really, REALLY want to check out DCC.
YEEEESSSS!!! As a player of both 5e and PF2e, I highly encourage people to expand their horizons! I prefer Pathfinder personally, but I know the amount of options scares some people away, but I'll let you in on a little secret... YOU DON'T HAVE TO USE THEM!
Yeah the character building sounds needlessly complicated. Instead of fishing for a background with the right stats, just freaking point buy your stuff and take whatever you want. Even 5e figured this out with the make your own background thing. IMO, that process is for people who don't already know what kind of character they want to play. If you do than not being able to line up your stats with your build because of the background you already came up with is frustrating.
Just wanted to say that I love the new direction the channel is going in!
I really appreciate the support!
I still like 1e. I have all of the books already and the Osric books are organized so well, it makes original rules easier to understand and run... thanks Bob. Always a great show
Have you looked into other OSR games?
@yeraycatalangaspar195 was thinking about OSE. Seems really well packaged and I believe it shows thac0 and 5e to hit #
@@PieCompanyGuitarsdotcom OSE seems a good go to to start with OSR, the art is pretty cool too.
I grew up on 1e and think it has the best feel and art, but 3e cleaned up the combat mechanics.
Me too. I got labyrinth Lord, and the original B/X rules and ad&d books.
I'm so glad you're diving into DCC ! I understand the hype towards Pathfinder 2E, but I'm personnaly not interested by it, and a lot of people on youtube are transitioning towards it. That's a wind of fresh air.
Yeah I think PF has the most coverage on TH-cam besides D&D already. I'm hoping I can stay relevant without talking about it much lol
I’m very glad to see you keep making quality contents despite all of the mess.
That intro though! 😂😂😂 The mustache hit the nail on the head, and the music, haha, so good!
Thank you for giving DCC the attention it deserves haha. it is my favorite RPG
Yeah I'm surprised it doesn't get more attention!
Both of these are awesome picks! I would also suggest Castles and Crusades which is very much like D&D as well...
It was your videos that got me onto DCC! I started a group on Old School Essentials but they wanted something just a bit more elaborate, so I'm now running my Karameikos campaign with DCC, but using the procedures from Old School Essentials for combat (group initiative) and exploration.
I've really enjoyed your real world outdoor rpg tests with your friends. That's the kind of thing my friends and I used to do.
Good video here. I haven't played rpgs in a long time, but now I'm checking out Pathfinder, Dungeon Crawl Classics and Campfire. Thank you.
Pathfinder 2e is great!
So I've heard! It's about time to try it out :)
@@BobWorldBuilder I've been playing d&d for 20 years and although I played a bit of pathfinder during the 4e days, I was staunchly pro-dnd. Now that I've tried pathfinder 2e I'm enamored.
Very excited about the future of RPGs. Looking forward to checking out Shadowdark (love the author for her adventures already), Core Fantasy, Weird Wizard and the new edition of 13th Age, plus whatever MCDM comes up with.
the dramatic reading made the 'we both won' line really sing.
Both of my favorites! I play a lot of PF2e. DCC is a blast. Played in a funnel. The DM (@Living4Crits) had his daughter play the Angel of Death who danced around the table with a rubber stamp to mark a level zero PC sheet with "Dead".
I run Numenera, a rules-light system, but it doesn't really fit the same kind of Ancestry, Background, Class concept, set up instead as Descriptor, Type (class), Focus. So, Bob is an Intelligent Arkus (face/leader) who Shepherds the Community.
Great video, Bob. Just a quick correction: OSE is actually a retroclone of the Moldvay Basic/Expert (B/X) rules, rather than Gygax’s Ad&d. Even the advanced fantasy rules are basically ways Gavin Norman invented of “B/X-ify” AD&D 1e
I see. Thanks for the clarification!
Nice one, Bob!
Outside of D&D: Forbidden Lands, Worlds without Numbers, Realms of Terrinoth, Mork Borg, and that's just on the fantasy side.
Thank you so much for that intro Bob! XD I've been waiting for that.
Similar boat, Bob! I respect Paizo’s seizure of an opportunity after the Hasbro/WotC debacle… I’m just not excited about the system. As a Pro GM, maybe I’ll just offer PF2e to groups who request it. As a GM for hire, I see most new players (most of my customers) really get overwhelmed with options & the crunch of the systems
I was flirting with OSR/Other systems already and this has pushed me over the edge - I have started to scoop/investigate so many titles since:
- OSE
- Knave
- Deathbringer
- DCC
- Basic Fantasy
- Tiny Dungeon
- Five Torches Deep
- SotDL
While keeping an eye out for Project Black Flag and MCDM :)
PF2 is half as crunchy as it used to be, and truly some things are easier than D&D5 (both player and Gm-wise). Also while I love OSR games as well, it's important to notice that they offer a completely different experience and require a different mindset than modern d20 RpGs like D&D5, PF2 and 13th Age.
Dungeon Crawl Classics is such a breath of fresh air. Finding it was like discovering gaming for the first time again.
Honestly I will still use 5e once I have the final materials, but I am wholeheartedly a Savage World's user. It just works for so many game types!
I hear a lot of good things about Savage Worlds!
@@BobWorldBuilder it's a very solid system. It's a lighter rules set than dnd, but easily adaptable to many things. I have found fan made and official settings for just about everything, from various video game and movie franchises to original properties. Personally I cannot wait to start my next campaign in the game, 50 fathoms!
My personal favorite DnD alternative is Emberwind. It's very easy to play and is very customizable. Classes are diverse and so is the world. Not to mention Derek, the creator, and his support team are amazing people and always open to questions.
My next bbeg's monologue is gonna need to be wizards official statement. An inspired idea
Inspiration is all around us lol
I love Level Up: Advanced 5e by EN Publishing! It’s probably the easiest non-D&D game to move to from D&D because it was specifically designed to be reverse compatible, so all of your old D&D books still offer compatible content!
Seconded. This is what I'm migrating my current 5E homebrew setting to, because almost all the mods I wrote for it will be cross-compatible.
Can you give me a rundown, I looked at the advanced 5e for a while, but I can’t actually find the changes they made. Can you give me a good run down? Would be appreciated
@@nicholaswells4572 I would describe A5E as a 5E remix. Classes have been tweaked to have more choices, and certain popular concepts have been brought forward from 3.5 and 4e, such as the bloodied condition and more robust magic item creation. Martial maneuvers have been expanded, and a lot of thought has been put into the exploration pillar.
@@nicholaswells4572 Quick and dirty version: all classes get extra exploration features, all martial classes get combat maneuvers (kinda like the Battle Master Fighter), race is broken up into culture and heritage and any two races can be combined to make hybrids. Several spells were rebalanced, Challenge Rating is now super easy and meaningful to use, and to top it all off, there’s new, official content released in their magazine every. single. month.
Yes thank you so much for mentioning, Shadowdark RPG!! For anyone curious it is a rules light RPG with influence from DCC and Dungeoncraft. Runehammer helped a lot from format to art, and many things between. It has a modern mechanical flavor without sacrificing any of its own originality. The starter rules are free for PDF. GM and Players guides are each 68 pages! If you buy the quick start kit it comes with digest size printed books, seven pre generated characters on cardstock, an adventure, and an extra dungeon!
'Building Better with Bob' Excellent video This is a Great Way Forward.
Great video! I have finally been playing PF2 and it is really great but like you mentioned the options are expansive. My first campaign has been the Beginners Box and it is super easy to run as a first time PF2 GM and as a player. The concepts are introduced to the players encounter by encounter and there are nice branches in the "dungeon" to take but ultimately everything still leads to the same place so none of these concepts are missed, you just get a couple of extra encounters if the players take the branch. DCC was my first non-5E purchase and I have yet to play it, though I have tons of content from various HumbleBundle specials. The simplicity and the deadliness appeal to me. OSE is sitting on my shelf and I picked up the PDF for Five Torches Deep, so those are on my radar. I am so utterly gutted by what is going on with WOTC and my love for 5E is tainted but I'm in the middle of so many great campaigns right now as a DM and a player that I'm just pushing forward with the materials I have at my disposal. It's super convenient that I like having the physical sourcebooks but disappointing that I don't have many printed adventures already. Excited to see how your channel grows and evolves over the next few months.
Thank you for this video, Bob. I have enjoyed your channel because of your positivity and enthusiasm. When I saw you'd made a video about 5e alternatives, I will admit I crossed my fingers and hoped that Pathfinder would be one of your recommendations. It's a great system, run by a good company, and I'm grateful for you calling that out. Kudos!
Great video Bob and it’s awesome we are in the golden age with so many options. You may also want to check out Savage Worlds. It’s a rule set that can be applied to any genre and they also recently released a Pathfinder setting that gives you the feel of PF. But yes try PF 2e, that’s where my group is likely landing.
Great video, Bob! Thanks for helping the community to branch out at this time. You're doing the (demon) lord's work.
The embroidery floss 'stache was brilliant!
Pathfinder
The fantasy trip
Basic fantasy
Great suggestions!
My favorite ruleset outside D&D is Cypher System. Cypher can handle any type of genre and setting, and it has a lot of genre-specific support. (I think MCG is still selling the incredible corebook at half-price right now.)
"Numenera" is my favorite setting for Cypher. It's an amazing science-fantasy set on Earth one billion years in the future. "Gods of the Fall" is also great, featuring a fantasy world in which the Gods are dead and the player characters are part of a generation of rising (potential) new gods.
When I want to play Star Wars, I love Star Wars Saga Edition, published about 15 years ago by WotC. I enjoyed Saga so much that I never bothered to try FFG's subsequent system.
I've looked at "Shadow of the Demon Lord" off and on, but I don't feel like learning a crunchy system with so much darkness baked into the rules. "Shadow of the Weird Wizard" is a version coming in the near future that has had the horror scrubbed from the system. (EDIT: Bob covered it. The lack of familiarity with Rob Schwalb made me chuckle. It's easy to forget that Bob is still a relative newcomer. :) )
Finally, to give an answer that will be unpopular right now, D&D gives me the best fantasy experience. When I want to play "D&D", nothing really compares. I have enjoyed 3E, 4E, and now 5E. Yes, WotC's recent shift is terrible, but I have a huge library of content. I don't need to spend another dime with them to enjoy a lifetime of gaming with their existing games.
I just bought a couple pathfinder 2e books this weekend. Thanks for giving them and others a mention.
I really appreciate that you're highlighting these other systems. I think it's a great way to criticize wotc without making another video made specifically to take them down. I could always use a little bit more positivity in my yt recommended, so these videos are a fresh break!
Symbaroum deserves some love. Great setting and decent magic system.
Agreed. Also for old school hexcrawling Forbidden Lands is beautiful.
These are totally my 2 picks. DCC is my super fun deadly random system of choice by far. Pathfinder for when I want to have a really heroic campaign because characters become powerful very fast.
Puts mustache on mustache. I love it. You can never go wrong with more mustache
Great video. I'm honnestly surprised Tales from the Loop, Forbiden Lands or Numenera weren't mentioned. Maybe those are too neo, even by 5e's standard, but personally as D&D becomes more corporated I'm wanting to shift to games which have better lore and worldbuildin.
Personally im excited to try Starfinder.
You can basically play Futurama as your game, and to me that sound both really cool and really funny.
In fact, Futurama’s general plot would make for a GREAT game, just let the players insert their own PC’s and send them on a galactic delivery trip.
I had a great time with Starfinder. The balance is great (at least in my experience) and it's super easy to make characters play differently even if they're the same class. My group had 3 soldiers and you'd never know it. The crunchy numbers don't get in the way of role-playing either. Can't recommend it enough. It was a great 3 years of gaming.
Haha that does sound like a fun campaign!
There respones of WotC on the OGL was two in one service for the D&D fans - a response on the OGL and a villainous monologue for inspiration for your own campaign 😁.
The villian mustache made me laugh. Thank you!
Glad you enjoyed it! lol
Great video, another non DND, non-D20 but OSR-like system I'm absolutely in love with and moved my DND group over to is EZD6. Oh and ordered Skateboard Wizards!
The best opening I've seen in a while... Absolutly perfectly funny
I appreciate that!
I was always pathfinder first, DND was actually what I got into later due to the popularity of 5e. I'm getting into 2e of Pathfinder, but am interested in mörk Borg, torchbearer, etc.
Torchbearer! YES! Just know this is a Burning Wheel system game. It's brutal, but fun because of it.
Mörk Borg is not a very developed game, but God it's a lot of fun for a chill oneshot. Just make back-up characters XD
@@toonvanboxstael254 I would say it's very developed, there is a hoard of fan-made content for it just on drivethru for example! :)
@@gbnilsson6212 that is true, and a pretty awesome dungeon builder! I meant more that the system itself is... not that comprehensive ;) Not that there's anything wrong with that...
@@toonvanboxstael254 I was on the fence with both, my wife(my primary player) definitely loves a story first game, weaving plots, mystery, intrigue, she's less of a gritty crunch heavy system, or a system designed to just absolutely obliterate your character.(reading through the two, I definitely like that gritty low fantasy style of torchbearer, or the pure black metal of Mörk Borg.) We also enjoy longform campaigns with characters progressing in story/personal development, are my suspicions correct in these game systems not exactly being hospitable for that play style?
I'm very glad to see Pathfinder and specially DCC here, Bob! I completely agree with your about the amount of modules and suplements. I feel more free and encouraged to create new worlds, plots, monsters e more while dming DCC.
I’d add to the list, Castles & Crusades by Troll Lord Games. It is a combination of AD&D 1E and D&D 3rd edition, and was the last game system that Gary Gygax actually contributed to.
Troll Lord Games has its own OGL (or one is being created as I type) and a very easy and open 3PP Guidelines for others to create content for Castles & Crusades.
You should definitely check out Index Card RPG (ICRPG). It's like all the best parts of D&D but stripped down to their most important and base versions. It allows for SUPER fast gameplay, makes GMing a breeze, and is by far the most approachable and easily learn-able system for first timers. I can't sing it's praises enough!
Thank you for the resources within the description, Bob! And I'm glad to see other videos about alternatives for other TTRPGs. It's kind of daunting to explore outside of dnd 5e, and I wasn't sure how to go about looking into pathfinder. This is a great vid!!
Glad it was helpful! Pathfinder probably has the most online resources out of any of the systems mentioned here. Enjoy!
Awesome news!! Welcome 5e bro to the awesome DCC community. Join the Road Crew and spread the word!!
Good stuff! I have taken ideas from DCC, ICRPG, Five Torches Deep, and 5e and built a really fun system of my own. Lots of fun options but simple mechanics and low HP bloat. I love seeing you branch out into other material, it makes every game better!
It has certainly been interesting watching all of this drama unfold - and I would agree wholeheartedly that WoTC sounds exactly like a villain doing his monologue.
I'm still hoping they can turn this all around. We'll see!
A game that for me really expanded my understanding of ttrpgs is Cortex (prime, tales of xadia, or any other version like Marvel Heroic Roleplaying). It’s almost as different as you can get from D&D, but incredibly fun for a variety of styles. Great toolkit.
Hell yeah, Cortex is super awesome.
Glad to see your content tailored for PF2e
The fun thing with pf2e is that they have rarity tags - so you can just say "we're only using common options, ask if you want something uncommon. No rare options!" That way you can set clear "boundaries" for player options ahead of time.
I also hope you enjoy the beginner's box!! The adventure is a very short intro to introduce mechanics. It slides really nicely into Troubles in Otari (a series of short adventures in the same town for more of the roleplay aspects, so it really builds up this little town - you can very seamlessly combine them) and then the Abomination Vaults adventure also takes place near Otari. I would recommend also grabbing the Troubles in Otari to combine with the BB to get a feel for things. I've noticed the biggest criticism of the BB is "not enough room for roleplay." Part of that is going to vary table to table (my group of newbies *made* rp opportunities and talked to Tamily more), but some of it I think is just the adventure being short and mostly a mini dungeon delve. So adding Troubles helps expand that out.
I didn't realize that about DCC spells which is awesome.
I'm not sure I'm a huge OSR person, BUT I adore the Perilous Wilds supplement for Dungeon World and that designer made Freebooters on the Frontier and I'd loved to give that a shot sometime.
I think you mentioned BFRPG in an other video of yours which is also part of the Old School Renaissance and is super simple and easy to use. It also has a TON of supplements for free and also adventures on the website.
Yeah I've heard great things about it, but I haven't explored it yet
Really a nice video. Love to see other fantasy rpgs getting the spotlight for once :)
Wow thank you so much for this video! I played 1E Pathfinder, and I had some friends really love the gritty technical details and the possibilities - DCC sounds right up my alley of my more hands-off DM style!
DCC! I'm playing that this weekend! Awesome!🤘
There are so many great games out there. My current favourite game is not D20, but EZD6. Feels just like DND but combat is in fast forward. For D20 style- knave is amazing.
Glad to see DCC getting more love recently 😌
Welcome to DCC! It's good to have you with us.
As a DM I REALLY needed this, THANK YOU!!
"If you share this video with your group, maybe one of them will decide to run these games, and you'll get to be a player for once!"
Now I know Bob is an RPG player. Talk about an improbable fantasy scenario! Hahahahuhuhuhu....
Pathfinder 2E is great! I've been playing in an ongoing campaign for over a year now, and while I'm still trying to break the 5e mechanics mindset, its been awesome 😁
love you, and this content. Thanks Bob!
Awesome will give a try!
Pathfinder 2 is amazing. It's more crunchy than 5e and the party really has to work together to overcome the toughest battles. But the character customization is amazing and the encounter building rules really work. Also the monster building rules work.
One of my games is going to Pathfinder and the other is going to Genesys. I'm super excited for Genesys, it's actually probably going to match the playstyle of that group far, far better than D&D did.
Genesys is the one from the newish Star wars rpgs, ain't it? I Heard some good stuff about it.
@@yeraycatalangaspar195 Nope. It's a 2017 release from Fantasy Flight. It's a genre agnostic system, so it's meant to work with everything from high fantasy to sci-fi to post-apocalypse.
That's a good feeling--to find a new game that better fits the group!
@@goliathcleric Yes, Genesys is genre agnostic, but it actually started as the Narrative Dice System, which was used in FFG's Star Wars games. It didn't originate with those games, but I don't remember what the first games were to use it. Too many podcasts in the brain.
I'm so happy to hear about Dungeon Crawl Classics being talked about. It can be such a fun experience to play and it was my first experience with a funnel adventure and it was a lot of fun with the chaos that happens with peasants all fighting for their own survival. The system was easy to understand and play as the second ttrpg system I was introduced to besides dnd. There's also a whole new system based upon DCC called Weird West which is a Lovecraft/Wildwest/Monster themed rpg that I'm excited to try out.
Thank you. Good information and suggestions. I Played D&D from 1980 to around 2016. My group stayed with D&D 3.5 long after V4 and V5 came out. Now we have switched to Pathfinder 2E. Took a while but, I really like the 3 action turn. You are right when you say that Pathfinder is a bit complicated. So a simpler Pathfinder type game would be nice. I do like the heavy use of skills because it makes the game less about combat and more about surviving and getting the best outcome from various situations. Also I tend to like less rather than more random events.
When I am GM I like to set up situations where some common sense and strategy win the day not some complicated rule sets or lucky dice roles. We play with miniatures and some of the players have created very elaborate dungeon set pieces. So selecting good combat positions, working as a team, and choosing good buffs before the battle become important.
Worlds Without Number is my top d20 fantasy RPG. The book is 400 pages but a good 70% is worldbuilding tools and GM advice. Characters are relatively simpler than in 5e mechanically but they have a lot more customization and robust optional subsystems like renown and faction rules that allow them to make their mark on the world. The default setting is also pretty cool, being real world earth after many apocalypses, alien invasions, and kingdoms that rose and fell.
Plus the magic spells are pretty sick. Why cast Fireball when you can summon *The Howl of Light*? Or Charm Person when you have the *Ineluctable Shackles of Volition*?
Was just scrolling to see if somebody beat me to recommending a look at WWN. Like pretty much all of Kevin Crawford's work, it's a system that's built as a framework to not only help build a world/campaign (so many tools!) but also with the intent of being modular. It's made with the idea that you can relatively easily pull in or bolt on other content (especially OSR/classic material) using the tools provided for quick conversions.
It does have some of SWN 2e/Revised's power curve issues for me personally, but that is probably just a personal thing and can be toned down in play.
I've ran the beginner box for my group who was used to 5e earlier this year and can confirm it was a good time. After finishing it we transitioned into the Abomination Vaults adventure path that takes place in the same town and they're likening that even more! The Beginner box is a good place to start but be warned it doesn't pull punches, we had a character get eaten.
That quote from the intro sounds like a villain who doesn't care that the enemy won. Yes, the voices were heard. It didn't matter, for the villain's dastardly plan shall not be stopped! And thus, no one lost. The villain was caught, but they cannot stop his plans and thus - wait, this is the plot to Dark Knight 2
That was a lot of fun Bob, and very helpful. I plan to check out SotDL and Campfire now! Both DCC and Pathfinder seem really interesting, but for various reasons, I'm hesitant to try them yet.