The Bachelorette Recap With Mina Kimes & Dr. Diane Strachowski
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 6 ต.ค. 2024
- Today we recap The Bachelorette finale with friend of show Mina Kimes and Psychologist Dr. Diane Strachowski. In breaking down the episode, we cover attachment theories, setting relationship boundaries, empowerment, and more. These topics clarify Katie choosing Blake, Justin’s exit, Katie and Greg’s conversation, and family dynamics. This team is just what the doctor ordered to take a clinical look at the episode.
“…attachment theory is like tea, you don’t know the flavor until you put it in hot water. ”
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I like how Dr. Diane recognized Katie’s anger as a trigger. I just hate how the viewers will justify a toxic , triggered man but villianized a women for the same behavior. They both have flaws, BUT I DO love her and Blake!!
THIS.
YES YES YES
Lol people are literally calling greg ted bundy and youre saying people only villianize women
Having Dr Diane on this recap was a masterstroke. It’s so interesting having her take! I like how Nick has dealt with the Greg controversy by tapping into expert opinion. Bravo
Team No One is a good stance to take. Maybe bachelor nation could take a step back, wish Katie and Blake happiness and wish Katie and Greg the strength to process what has happened to them and be able to do better moving forward.
this is the best perspective.
Loved it when Greg said to Katie…as much as you wanted someone to love you, I also wanted that. Mic drop. No one can argue that.
Right?! And when he said “ just because your the bachelorette doesn’t mean your higher than me in this relationship, we should be equal” and the audience clapped…… 👏🏻
Katie & Greg are an example of how we attract relationships that trigger and reflect our unhealed wounds. In my opinion they have abandonment wounds and fear of rejection. They both need to learn how to communicate feelings in healthy ways.
the thing with Greg is that i think ultimately he went on the show not expecting to really fall head over heels for Katie (just based on his past, etc) and when the time came, after he had introduced her to his family, it all became very real for him and he was over the whole "show/entertainment" aspect of it. he was all in and wasn't here for the BS anymore. i fully understand where he's coming from. he did handle it terribly, but i also understand his POV. he had real emotions, and he acted emotionally to not having his feelings reciprocated. on the AFR, i think that Katie came in too hot. sure she had a right to be mad at Greg for leaving so suddenly but man, she pushed him into the grave and spat on the dirt. i still don't think that either of them got the closure they needed from that argument. they both seemed defensive as hell - Greg spending most of the time defending the reasons why he was so upset, and Katie spending most of the time defending her reasoning to be so angry and "guns blazing." it's just super unfortunate the way it played out. ironically, this fight proved that they don't have compatible communication styles and it wouldn't have worked anyway lol
I understand Greg's emotions, but the way he handled everything was so unacceptable it's not even funny. He should've just said "Hey, I don't think I can handle this process, I'm going to leave." Instead, he said "Hey, I'm leaving and it's all your fault." All while trying to manipulate her into saying something that she already expressed she wasn't ready to stay. The whole show, Katie was clearly putting in wayyy more effort than Greg was, and Greg tried to turn around and convince her that the opposite was true. He was the one who tried to paint her as the villain first, and she reacted in kind. Katie had every right to be angry at him.
@@lasagna312 yeah he did react terribly when she wouldn't tell him how she felt about him. i just chalked it up to "ok she's playing the game, he doesn't want to, so that's that" until the very next episode when she tells Blake how in love she is with him. that made me have a bit more understanding for Greg's POV
@@tynie626 Clearly the reason she didn't say I love you to Greg was because she only wanted to say it to one person, and she wasn't sure yet whether that one person would be Greg or Blake. Once Greg left, she was able to say it to Blake because at that point she was sure. Why are people conveniently forgetting that Justin wasn't even a contender? She only wanted to say it to one person, and so she did.
@@lasagna312 i didn't forget about Justin at all, but it was obvious to me that she had stronger feelings for Blake and Greg. but on ATR she did mention that she realized she was in love with Blake during hometowns. Blake's hometown was before Greg's (if i'm not mistaken). if she already knew she was in love with Blake, why wasn't she able to tell Greg that her feelings weren't as strong for him? Unless she was still doing a "wait and see" approach.
@@tynie626 That's what I'm saying though. We don't know that her feelings weren't as strong for Greg. It's very possible that she fell in love with both of them and was still trying to decide.
Dr. Diane stole this show!! What a clear analysis and explanation of their behavior, I need her to analyze me next
Loved Greg’s response to Katie’s accusations. Katie came for blood, he couldn’t help himself but laugh because she was over the top.
I personally can see how someone can have no regrets but still be sorry for the hurt they caused. He did say he was sorry for hurting her. For example in a normal breakup you would be sorry for the pain you caused but still not regret it doing what needed to be done. I think he was coming at it like I don’t have regrets because everything happens for a reason and turned out how it should.
Funny you use that phrase because thats exactly the phrase Katie used when she was on Nick's podcast. So much for that.
THANK YOU!! I was so so confused how people could be attacking Gregg last episode and Nick defense of him last podcast when all I saw was a man hurting and Katie putting salt in the wound. So appreciative this was explained !
Katie clearly still has feelings for Greg or she wouldn't be this angry. Her anger was over the top & classless. I thought her behavior with Thomas was also over the top & unnecessary.
Yeah the Thomas thing wasn't cool
100% correct! There is NO WAY she could be as happy as she pretends to be. I've been happy and in love, and my anger over any broken romantic relationships just wasn't there anymore. I didn't have to care or worry about it anymore.
Yeah…. Her feeling is hurt masked as anger, not anything romantic. She’s still processing the ending, it wasn’t that long ago. All that really matters at this point is how Blake and her are going to work through it all, and Blake seems to have the secure attachment style Katie needs to help her work through it. Maybe they work and maybe they don’t, but calling her classless at this point is a bit much. Kinda hard to believe you watched this podcast all the way through and could only think to say this.
@@brrodyy yep. And she trashed him every opportunity she got and even went out of her way to tell BN alum that THOMAS was toxic so they wouldn't date him. She was trying to do the same to Greg. She is vindictive, and goes scorched earth by any male she feels slighted by. She's the toxic one. Good riddance! Peace out Katie! 👋👋👋
If she wasn't going to pick Greg at the end, she wouldn't have been on her knees asking him to stay. I think she's just upset that the audience saw all of that and he still left, so she's embarassed and angry. No one sees Blake and Katie lasting
This was a wonderful recap. I appreciated the host Nick Viall inviting psychologist Dr. Diane Strachowski. She was overflowing with wisdom and knowledge. It was refreshing not hearing people berating others. It is so true that people have different understanding of what love is. In relationships poor communication is a mammoth problem. I would be the individual that needed to hear that I was loved. Give me a wink or something. Lol
As someone with an anxious attachment style (as anyone who saw my "Ask Nick"s can likely verify), I definitely have a fear of having a Greg-like breakdown and have definitely seen these patterns in my own dating life, so thanks so much for these discussions! I'm really looking forward to the conversation with Greg tomorrow!-"Favorite 10%er" Nate.
oh great! I would like to hear from Greg too. Then I think that Katie needs to get away from social media for awhile. Katie needs to work on her self confidence (like alot of us do). I would like to see Justin interviewed as well btw. i did not like her treatment of Thomas or Justin. Either the show did not show us content, and or Katie treated him like a spare.
@@doglover7675 agreed. i empathize with katie’s anger, but at some points during the show i felt as if her reactions seemed too intense. my other critique of katie is using social media allegations when addressing greg. her other frustrations with greg were definitely fair, but it was obvious that she had been spiraling in fan theories all throughout the season
as a woman i recognise these patterns in myself too.
This highlights how toxic the bachelor/ette can be. I think we saw two people show the worst version of themselves on TV. Greg when he didn't feel validated and imploded and Katie when she felt scorned. It was disappointing to see Katie speak to Greg the way she did. It was clear that Katie was choosing to be "right" and vindicated in her takedown of Greg at the expense of being "happy" and leaning into her new engagement. It was cruel and unnecessary. And Greg's meltdown earlier in the season demonstrated his immaturity at that moment. They clearly were not a match, and both were right in thinking they deserved better. I hope they find it after lots of therapy and reflection.
100% agree with you on this
Katie has shown a ton of cruelty this season, the way she sent home Thomas, and another guy (I forgot his name) and the way she talked to Greg. I think that's who she really is.
Agree with your take!
Katie was giving him a piece of his own medicine , she was getting closure for herself, he embarrassed her first on national tv, Gregg has a lot of growing to do before he gets in a serious relationship, he should go to therapy , Blake is great for Katie , I hope they go the distance
@@Paula-mn2ze I agree with some of this. Greg DEFINITELY has a lot more growing to do but so does Katie. And I think sometimes it's human nature to confuse payback with closure. Closure is seeing that Greg wasn't the one for her and letting him go in peace with a quick "deuces." Payback is behaving in a way that puts you on the same level as the person you think wronged you. There's nothing to gain from that and early reactions prove that point. Alot of people didn't like that side of Katie this week the same way they didn't like that side of Greg last week. What's the phrase "an eye for an eye leaves the whole world blind?"
All discussion aside, the doctor outfit is bomb.
She's distractingly on point!! Love her look.
Nick this is a very great point, the show
Is more interesting when the audience and the contestants are fooled. For example Justin from his perspective had more of relationship then we saw, Katie even said they didn’t show a lot of his stuff.
I don’t understand if Greg wasn’t her pick before the argument occurred, why did she say she wanted to go home? I just don’t buy it. I know the psychology behind it, but nobody reacts the way Katie did if Blake was her person. She kept telling Greg that they were almost at the end and to trust her. In addition, she cried more for Andrew S than Justin. I knew Justin wasn’t the one. If Greg and Katie never had that argument, she would be with him if his intentions were to get engaged. I’m just not convinced it was Blake before the argument. Nevertheless, I’m happy she ended up with Blake. I think Katie’s reaction to Greg at the AFR was because she was glued to social media after the episode of the fight aired. All of that played a part in her response.
I think the ATFR was filmed before the fight aired.
I'm happy for them, too. I think she was planning on choosing Greg, also. She was trying to tell him in so many ways. "You know how I feel, don't you?" "We are almost there." But I think she was starting to notice flags/getting exhausted with Greg and also starting to notice this easy happy connection with Blake continue to develop and feeling some love. And she wanted to stick to her boundary, instead of tell them both. I think she was planning on picking Greg, but the argument was almost inevitable (hometowns or overnights or the end).
I think Nick is confusing who she *should* have ended up with and who she might've ended up with. I think they're counting Greg out way too much.
Like Nick said, most leads already know who they're going to pick by then, so why exactly was she *begging* him to stay? It doesn't add up if he wasn't a very real option for her regardless if they think it wouldn't have been the right option.
I also think Greg leaving like that made her appreciate Blake more. The contrast was so huge. Blake demanded nothing of her, told her how much his "I love you" meant and that he thought it through.... he wouldn't leave her after telling her he loved her.... he really seemed to get her..... I think she saw it with new eyes, after Greg's surprising exit.
@@dyslexiahelpforallages4176 That immediate I love you and the over done kiss after the fight with Greg were terrible looks. Only time will tell if they love each other, but as for convincing America Katie shot herself in the foot. I think if Michael would've popped up right after Greg left Blake would be at home alone.
Wow I love this recap so much. I just recently started learning about attachment theory and I find it wildly interesting. Dr. Strachowski should be on these heavier episodes every season!
As someone who is anxiously attached, I absolutely love this! I love that we’re looking at it from the view of attachments. So accurate
Katie is easily manipulated. Anything anyone told her about someone in the house she believed it and reacted. Now she’s reading the internet about Greg and believed it and reacted
I had heard early in the season that Greg had scrubbed his acting school from his social media, and people assumed he told her but she did seem to have been surprised at that. Not that trying to be an actor is an issue, but if you're hiding it in this scenario then that can also effect things. On the whole this show is so highly edited that we don't know ANYTHING for sure and I would like to see people jumping less to conclusions and show them some grace. Maybe not the show/producers, but the lead and contestants.
@@julieedwards380 To be fair, he said he's never even been to an audition so maybe he didn't want to come across as a unemployed actor on social media
I'm amnazed at the fact that it was never brought up in all of these discussions that Katie mentioned on the first night, Greg looked like her ex boyfriend and that could spell trouble. Instead of maybe sending him home the first night, she gave him the first impression rose.
I totally understand Katie's reaction to Greg. I've done worse myself. But it really cast a pall on her happy ending with Blake. For the sake of the show she should have at least toned it down a bit. When the show first started I thought they were going to have the Greg/Katie conversation early on in order to clear the way for the love story, but the way it dragged out until the end - didn't help the narrative of Katie finding her person and being happy.
I think that had to do more so with production and the way they had edited and filmed AFR.
@@fathiabalgahoom3785 True, but she shouldn't have given them so much to work with. She could have asserted herself and expressed that she expects that a person who loves her would not leave in those circumstances. Without bringing up him being an actor, gaslighting, etc. Anyone watching their interaction in isolation would think that Katy is the one who is not ready to move on and have a successful relationship, not Greg.
@@Skeptique If all that anger and bitterness was real, then she CLEARLY still have feelings for Greg. If that was my fiance, acting the way Katie acted toward her "ex", I would have been extremely uncomfortable and doubtful of what we have.
@@sabrinashelton1997 Well, that's what insecure people do. You could also look at it from the perspective that this was the only time she got to confront this boy who treated her pretty badly. Her anger was justified. Katie wasn't mad that Greg left, but how he left and the damage he did on the way out because of one instance of miscommunication.
@@evajones7704 What's what insecure people do? Not want their fiance all butt hurt about an ex? Okay, guess most people are insecure then. Her reaction was not normal. She barely knew Greg and they weren't even in a relationship. He did not treat her "pretty badly", imo. As far as breakups go, that was mild. Very mild. If you are happy and in love and yada yada, then what are you worried about Greg for? Move on. Yeah, Blake's not insecure because he got what he wanted out of the deal...CLOUT and FOLLOWERS.
Relationships come to us as mirrors. Triggering us so we can see our own unhealed wounds, usually core wounds from childhood and our parents. When you find yourself triggered by someone, set the other person aside for the moment and look within. Ask yourself, "Why is this a trigger for me?" "Where in my childhood did I have a similar experience, or feel this same emotion?" It can also stem from unhealed emotions from our prior relationships. Both of them still have some inner work to do, wounds they have not healed.
Just watching this while I wait for the Chatty Broads episode to come out
If she knew it was Blake, then her reaction makes just no sense at all. Her reaction to Greg wanting to leave/having doubts, makes no sense. None. Her reaction on the AFR also makes zero sense, as well. There is no way that can be true.
People said the exact same thing about Rachel Lindsay re her behavior on AFR toward Peter...and her and Bryan are happily married 🤷🏾♀️ You can be happy in a relationship and still experience negative emotions once brought to the surface toward someone who did you wrong. They’re not exclusive
@@SupernaturalLove100 In my experience, it is not normal and makes no sense. And he didn't really "do her wrong". He left the show. They weren't in an exclusive relationship and whatever they WERE in was very short-lived. If she is that bitter about some guy she barely knew, I would be very uncomfortable with that if I were Blake. He isn't concerned though, because as the "winner" he has the clout he's been after. As for Rachel Lindsay, I never watched her season, so I can't speak to that one.
These dynamics with the 3 of you are great! Awesome episode
Soooo good!!!
I think that Katie with her outburst was trying to convince herself that Greg wasn't really there for her and that he's an actor to make herself feel better about the fact that she messed up and let the love of her life go, a man who clearly had genuine feelings and just wanted her to give him a sign that those feelings will be reciprocated when he gets down on one knee, a one and done deal for him.
I complete agree with what the therapist was saying at 22-23 minutes in. Greg may have been her front runner the entire time but she was also falling for Blake so when Greg pulled the crap that he did ( not only was she seeing red flags) she also couldn’t leave with him because she has unresolved feelings for Blake.
That’s fair! The begging him to stay is where it got confusing. Did she just want to have the options? I think Greg was very perceptive and felt a change and removed himself from the situation although I was not 100% on board with the way he did it
@@dionebest9960 Yeah, I don’t really know. I think in that moment she still thought he may be the one and didn’t understand why he was reacting the way he did. Michael had also just left, so I also think that she was depleted from that.
for Katie being the understanding empathetic person she claims to be, she has none for Greg. she fails to see see that he's a man hurting. he's wasn't a happy person. he only found happiness through her. and she fails to empathize with that.
also, attacking him for being an actor and what other people have been saying about who he really is.... anyone from our past can day anything about us. taking it for fact when there's no actual evidence is pretty stupid.
and then, if the roles were reversed and we saw a bachelor diss, yell at, and talk over a woman (ie Jake P) - it wouldn't be a "girl boss" move. that was rude and way over the top. not every bachelorette has to have her Hannah B tell off moment.
finally, what Greg said about her being the bachelorette doesn't put her any higher and him lower in the relationship. that was powerful. she relished being "the bachelorette" and was proud of the control she had. but that's not how it's going to be in the real world.
anyway, hope her relationship works out. hope Greg finds happiness within himself and lands himself in a relationship that he deserves.
Why does he need to regret needing something real from her. She was acting the bachelorette role. I was yelling at the screen. She was the gaslighter.
No way was Katie going to pick Blake if Greg was still there. She clearly loves Greg......Her behavior tells the story.
Yeah she said Greg was her #1 and she was ready to quit the show, there’s no way it was always Blake like they’re saying
So what? The relationship won't last
Katie seems to love to tell guys off, especially when theres an audience .
her aunts effect on her?
I agree . She is trying too hard to have her Hannah Brown moment but is only making herself look unhinged.
Dr. Diane is amazing!!! Please bring her back for Paradise!
This finale was satisfying compared to last finale.. 🙄 I thought the song & dance at the end was soo cute. I find Blake so much more attractive this season for some reason.. his eyes are gorgeous!!! 😍 I think him & Katie are SO cute together, and Blake comes off very genuine!! Loved hearing him express his feelings w/ her. I missed Chris Harrisons questions this season at the finale. 😕 Although the girls did great, it's just not the same without you, Chris! ❤
When he was on Clare and Tayshia's season(s) I think his edit made him seem dumb. They made him seem like an afterthought.
His energy matches her energy and its lovely. I truly hope they make it.
❤️ Dr. Anne (Back to Love Doc) and her take on the Katie and Greg interactions. Very insightful. Great episode.
This episode is amazing nick!
I was super concerned about listening to recaps and getting triggered all over the place. YET, following up on the recaps are my bachelor/ette tradition. 🤷♀️ What to do??? 🤦♀️🥴🤣. I sheepishly looked at TH-cam and was SOOOO excited to see professionals!!! Yay!! Now I can tune in. Thanks so much, Nick. For being open and getting people who know what they are talking about here. Love feeling like I'm learning here. ❤️❤️
Also, whoever decided gaslighting was the cool new buzzword that everyone wants to say even though they dont know the meaning of it should be punished lol
So, Katie did a bad job of explaining what it is. I do think it still fits here.
Gaslighting, toxic, empathy are the buzzwords used by people who think they're smarter than they actually are
also narcissist lol
So y’all are just going to ignore what the DOCTOR said, huh? “Everyone” isn’t misusing the word. Dismissing and minimizing others’ feelings bc you don’t agree is what she’s trying to educate viewers to stop doing.
@@adubya WTF are you talking about? she agreed with the point we made. People use words and don't know what they actually mean.
The lopsided accountability in this episode is really disappointing. While I would admit that Greg has issues which you guys fully discussed for 45 minutes (deep dive) little was said (very surface) about Katie’s aggressive behavior on that stage.She Continued to talk down to Greg like he was a child. Suggesting that because he was an actor he couldn’t be trusted. Talking about things she had “heard”. It’s wrong to claim foul and then turn around and commit the very same behavior. You lose the moral high ground. The fact that she was not able control her impulses after several months signifies bigger problems. She is very similar to her Aunt. Blake and Katie aren’t going to make it. It’s plain as day.
OAN Nick you seem to have slightly changed your opinions from your initial reaction last week.
100%
I was really critical of the last episode and I have to say this episode was amazing. Loved seeing both sides explored in an informed manner, Diane clearly could speak on both sides and also Mina and Nick who had different views but definitely explained themselves and heard eachother. Also really appreciated that Diane had rewatched parts of the season.
This was great. I really like Mina as a guest and in the sports world. Dr. Diane (who looked amazing!) was so on point with her explanations and having a broader understanding of the psychology of the franchise as a whole. Thanks Nick for once again bringing in a expert to go through some of these issues that people are clearly having a difficult time wrapping their heads around. One of the better episodes ever, for sure.
this is kind of what happened on ATFR with rachel and peter. she came in hot for him. but she’s happily married to bryan despite everyone thinking she wasn’t over peter 🤷🏻♀️
Exactly!!
Yes thank you girl! But at least Rachel got a proper goodbye with Peter, Katie never got that chance of closure since Greg just left. So her reaction was months of things she had to say especially after rewatching the show back.
Tbh I feel Rachel came in less hot. She was heated don’t get me wrong but not to the level of Katie.
@@soleil1953 if i had just watched that back i’d be hot too. this was filmed july 24th i believe so they were just seeing those clips back for the first time
I think Greg handled their final goodbye wrong the second day of the fight & Katie was wrong in her response at AFR- not to say they aren't valid in their feelings, but they can't understand or communicate their feelings to each other appropriately. Proof that they weren't right for one another. I'm glad Blake & Katie are together and happy with the ultimate outcome- that being said, I wish she could've let go of her Greg anger because instead of celebrating the happy couple... the big moment of the AFR was instead a 'let's shit on Greg' session
I think when Greg said he had no regrets, he was referring to breaking up with Katie. Please understand that statement has many interpretations. I am very concerned about the damage breaking down these things in the media has on contestants. I like seeing experts on the podcast BUT these psychologists are not treating the contestant. They are putting their theories out there. I’d prefer they say that up front so the audience doesn’t tend toward taking their view as fact. Solomon was better then the psychologist today in that regard.
I actually thought it was that BS that everybody says now I have no regrets because it made me stronger even when it wrong it’s a cliche at this point
I think the doctor did give that disclaimer she was not their therapist but simply analyzing a moment in time versus a lifetime pattern.
Thank you for saying this! I completely agree.
Katie showed her psycho ex girlfriend side. Yikes. Loved her until her display on FR.
Honestly, Katie doesn’t seem like she should even be in a relationship herself.
Just watching the final and up to the part where Katie is giving it to Greg, and you know what, good on her. I'm glad she got her happy ending with Blake and I'm glad Dr Diane says she can have her happy ending and also feel this anger. I too would have loved to have seen how Greg would have handled Aunt Lindsay, that would have been amazing. He totally would have cracked.
But whatever, Katie totally dodged a bullet with Greg acting like he did while on the show. All the best to Katie and Blake!
What made me really angry was at AFR when Katie said “if you really loved me, you would have stayed” because that paints a really skewed picture of what love is.
Yeah, especially since this can be considered manipulative. But then she's the "victim" of being manipulated by him... right? So she is allowed to! She's the bachelorette! (Sarcasm)
Again, absolutely no credibility in my eyes. To me, her ego and pride were having fun being the "strong woman putting him in his place".
It's funny because that's exactly what Greg was saying too - "If you really loved me, you would end the show with me." Ultimately I really think it was just a miscommunication and they were in different places at the time.
Interesting. I actually don't understand why anything was wrong with that. Do you want to explain? I actually agree 100% with Katie and think was THE big issue. If you love someone, you don't walk out because you don't like a response they had, without attempting to repair it. That's not really love.
@@dyslexiahelpforallages4176 my problem with it and I agree that both Katie and Greg made comments like this, but her receiving applause really rubbed me the wrong way because it continues this narrative of “love is the only thing that’s needed in a relationship.” Love isn’t a “favor” or an exchangeable currency that you can use to manipulate and control other people’s actions. In the end, you can love someone so much, but if there’s no commitment there, the relationship will never work regardless of the amount of love. I don’t think greg and Katie’s “relationship” fell apart because of a lack of love, it was a combination of other miscommunications.
@@sophielawrence2393 I agree that the feeling of love isn't enough and you need action to back it up. I think that's what Katie meant, actually. That love isn't just a feeling, but the action behind it. Wanting the best for another person, putting them first, giving them compassion and grace. The audience was all over the place though. Fairly certain they were just random "applauding" takes that the editors put wherever.
The idea that Katie broke her rules for Blake and not Greg is just lazy thinking. It’s the absence of thought. That was the rule before Greg left. Perhaps Greg and Blake were her top two and she was mainly holding back because she was unsure who it would be? Perhaps the Greg break up was so hurtful that she tossed her rules out and changed her mind? It doesn’t really matter why she told Blake she loved him, it doesn’t validate Greg’s B.S. No one has to tell you they love you if they don’t want to.
I mean, the whole reason she had that rule in the first place was because she only wanted to say "I love you" to one person on the show. When Greg left, there was only one person left that she wanted to be with, so she said it. Justin never had any chance anyway.
Well said.
Well actually you do need to do certain things in order to get a desirable result. To keep Greg she had to step it up emotionally. She didn't so she didn't keep him. Which she's obviously pissed about.
@@NaturalAegyo I don’t think she’s angry he left. I think she’s angry because she felt manipulated by him. I’ve felt the same in the past. You can be happy in your current relationship and still be pissed at an ex you feel mistreated you. I’m not sold on Greg gaslighting her, I think he has some issues that need to be resolved but he definitely mistreated her.
Great points! Your personal needs and desires don’t justify terrible actions when those aren’t met.
it was Katie's journey , not Greggs if he had true feelings for her he would have respected her position and waited it out till the end, Blake was a better more mature fit for her , and she didn't realize I think at first bc her head was all clouded up over Gregg , more like puppy love or lust, that it took her a while to realize her feelings were stronger for Blake and he gave her space and respect for her position and was willing to wait it out
This is the most intelligent take I’ve seen thus far. On night one she voiced that he reminded her of her ex. That is in no way a compliment to him or their supposed future together. She gravitated towards him only due to familiarity. There was no genuine connection. He played off of her clouded judgment. That’s exactly why he was always visibly disturbed and seeking constant validation. He knew it would draw her in and he was right. You can tell that she’s accustomed to putting the desires of her partner above her own and it was obvious throughout her season. Greg threw a temper tantrum and all of bachelor nation applauded his “raw vulnerability” 🙄. Katie, who didn’t have the amount of time to heal like a person hurt after dating in the real world, expressed similar emotions stating how she felt disrespected by a man who claimed he “loved” her, and gets criticized. It’s actually disgusting how she’s being vilified but he’s being praised. On Matt’s season Katie was looked at as this strong woman that didn’t take BS from anyone. She always stood up and advocated for anyone she felt was being targeted or bullied in the slightest. I’m sure after watching her own season, she was extremely disappointed in herself for allowing Greg to try his best to ruin her journey to find love. She has every right to advocate for herself. She was humiliated. He tried to hijack her journey. Anyone truly in love won’t leave after one misunderstanding. Especially when that misunderstanding has to do with the rules of a competition/tv show you signed up to be on. Give me a break, he never loved her and had no intention of proposing. It was a brutal wake up call but him leaving was the best thing to ever happen to her. I’m happy for her.
This was a great recap. Great podcast Nick!
This was really a great video. I learned so much and really enjoyed this conversation!
Dr. Strachowski is brilliant. I studied psychology as well, I don’t have a PHD however the fact that she picked up and commented on Katie’s “picking” at Greg after Blake gets there is not mentioned by anyone else. It’s classic anxious attachment, it was almost a way to show the self-fulfillment prophecy or the pathway to sabotage
As someone who has an anxious attachment style, I would never manipulate someone or treat them the way Greg did Katie. I’m with Katie on this. He can still have an anxious attachment style without being verbally manipulative.
Great Recap! Katie did say during ATFR that she knew she was in love with Blake during hometowns which can lead to believe that she was being dishonest with Greg. I would have love to hear what was your take on that.
That means Greg was right and why she lie to him he was her no1
Katie said that to hurt Greg, I don’t believe she was in love with Blake at that point
I think it's very possible that she was actually in love with both Blake and Greg during hometowns, and that's why she didn't want to tell Greg she loved him yet, she was still trying to decide.
@meat ball not necessarily true. You can love someone but leave because you feel they don’t feel the same way in return. Why stay after feeling like someone doesn’t care the same way you do? In my opinion they both could have handled the situation better though. Communication issues.
At some point Greg wanted the girl he was supposed to determining if he was going to propose to and not just the Bachelorette. Of course Blake is ok with all of it. It’s his 3rd go round. I like him but Greg was deeper. Why is that in any way wrong.
If I were him, I would've left too. With Katie's responses, she prioritized the show over their relationship which shows she wasn't in love with him. I wouldn't want to publicly propose to someone in a week, just to feel humiliated when they said no
Remember, Greg told Tayshia & Kaitlyn he had no regrets about how he acted. I think that contributed to Katie's angry reaction to him when she walked on the stage.
Except she was already saying he wasn't a real man before that. Strong ugly words before even seeing his face again let alone his interview.
@@NaturalAegyo That's why I said contributed. Yes she was already upset because the last she had any contact with Greg she was on her knees while he was walking away. She had a lot to get off her chest.
I’m sorry but it does not justify her disgraceful behavior
@@dionebest9960 Just curious, did you find Greg disgraceful last week?
this the same doc that Dave Neal interviewed? she is fantastic
Mental Health Professionals are not a monolith. Nick chose to work w professionals whose points of view that are close to his own. There are other therapists who have posted rather different takes waving big ol red flags about greg’s behavior. Just bc you can explain possible traumatic/attachment issues at the roots of Greg’s behavior does not make it any less dangerous. He was triggered into a two days passive aggressive fit by a woman’s boundaries and containment and her talking like “the Bachelorette” when she is indeed the bachelorette a show he has been trying to get on for a couple seasons and is well aware about how it works. totally fair to feel disappointing for him but the response was super manipulative and uncalled for. Katie’s response was straightforward anger at watching herself be passive-aggressively berated for two days and hearing stories about how he has treated other women/his acting aspirations since filming.
To me, and to other therapists I’ve followed, their behavior is not comparable. At all.
Katie told Greg she didn’t think he knew what love was, but I don’t think she knows either. She fell back on her safe choice and not the brave choice. Blake is a meat head, but he is secure and is not phased by the possibility that this could be a rebound/revenge relationship. If Katie wanted to hurt Greg back, she would get engaged and post as many PDA pictures as possible like she is doing now. Using Blake to make Greg jealous and regretful is not love. Who knows though? She might just have only wanted Greg as a pretty prop for the show and was so embarrassed when he left. Blake made her look good and saved her season from “failing”. I’m sure she appreciates Blake taking that risk for her and her feelings for him have grown. Only time will tell.
"She fell back on her safe choice and not the brave choice. Blake is a meat head, but he is secure..." I'm sorry, what? Are you trying to say that between a secure man or an insecure man, you would choose the insecure man?
@@victorkilohotel She kept saying Greg was her #1. It looked like she was settling to me. You do make a good point. We will never know who Katie would have chosen if Greg did not leave. It seems she had to tell Blake she loved him so he would not leave next. Seeing her so hung up on Greg must freak him out. This is Blake’s third Bachelorette in row, so it raises the question on whether Katie is the one or if he just finally got his chance to win. He’s either really secure or really naive. Katie and Blake could be really happy and I am wrong. My speculations are only based on what I saw on the show and social media. I remember the advice Blake’s mother gave about telling her I love you as soon as he knew and he did not take the risk that night. This season was such a mess - more confusing than Peter or Ari’s season. Life is messy though. No one really has a perfect love story. I mean, people were saying Chris was an idiot for sticking with Desiree and those people were wrong. They are still together.
I feel like Katie and Blake could’ve met on Paradise and makes me a little annoyed tbh. Like, happy for them, but this season was kind of a waste.
I don’t believe Katie was going to pick Blake for sure ; if Greg didn’t bailed out of fear of losing and didn’t show his insecurities, we probably would have had Greg seating next to her instead of Blake. I think during hometowns she was still hesitating between the two of them and probably was waiting till fantasy week to really make her final decision but Greg flipped the switch on her by demanding hey are we on the same page here and that’s when she realized hey it looks like Blake is my guy after all , but not sure he would have been her first choice .
Correct. That is the one thing the entire panel in this recap is completely wrong about. It was pretty obvious that Greg was the front runner. Most leads don’t admit it, but, Katie even mentioned that “Greg was her number 1”. So, before the fantasy week, he was ahead of Blake, for certain. I honestly think it is more a debate between Michael and Blake for #2 and personally, I thought Michael was ahead. With Greg leaving and Michael already gone, she wanted to leave and “quit the show” because she wasn’t in love with any of the remaining contestants. Had Blake been “in consideration”she would have never acted this way. To salvage her image, she then chose Blake over Justin, out of the two leftovers. She knew Blake wouldn’t break up with her, considering the storyline he created for himself. The worst part is she then, out of desperation, confessed she loved Blake, so he wouldn’t leave and then just went with the fake act of pretending to be in love with Blake to end the show with somebody instead of nobody. Nobody wants to be that Bachelorette nobody wants. Now, to be fair, in my opinion, when I saw Katie in Matt’s season, I did think of her as a good match for Blake, for Bachelor in Paradise. Tayshia was smart to not introduce these two prior to show production. Had she done that, there would have been no show and Tayshia would have missed out of some serious deposits to her bank account.
@@pablogutierrez4817 interesting
I disagree… the moment Blake entered the show he was the lead ….that’s why Greg became so insecure and put pressure on Katie… that side of him really opened her eyes…
When Katie threw out Thomas.
She was an an advocate
without a cause.
Thomas deserved an apology.
#JusticeforThomas
This is one of the reasons I actually don’t think she is hung up on Greg after her AFR discussion w him. On Matt’s season, on social media, and w Thomas we have always seen her try and be an activist and call out something she feels is wrong. I think she felt pissed off cause Greg doesn’t seem to be who she thought he was, and that him acting all sweet on AFR was fake and am injustice tjay she simply wanted to call out. I don’t think she still wants him, I think she is just the type of person to get heated like we saw. I don’t believe Katie could want Greg after seeing how he reacted to her, and how her and Blake have had a much easier time and are more similar.
Seeing how quickly Katie moved on from supposedly being broken hearted after Greg left to madly in love with Blake, to me it seems like she WAS leading Greg on. It was always Blake. It's not possible to be in love with 3 guys at the same time.
She chose Blake because he was next in line and she didn’t want to leave single
Maybe Katie acted so angry on AFAR because she knew her aunt would be watching to make sure she measured up to the "I am woman, hear me roar" thing. And congrats on the nomination!
this is SUCH an interesting study in relationship psychology
also i wish that Blake would have asked Katie how she felt about him, knowing how distraught she was after Greg left. it would have been interesting to see how she responded to that instead of Blake telling her first, knowing how badly Michael, Andrew and Greg leaving affected her. i don't want to go so far as to say that Blake's love declaration was slightly manipulative... but...
all in all, i'm convinced that Blake got the "oh well i guess i'll be with him" treatment. their interactions after Greg left felt kind of forced tbh.
Absolutely right! I felt that, too. She wanted a perfect Bachelorette ending, and she thought she deserved it. She would have accepted a proposal from whomever was left, I think. Her ego would not have allowed otherwise.
Agreed, I would have loved to see him ask her too, not knowing for sure led to his hesitancy in proposing. Blake said if she’s still hung up on Greg then there’s no point in an engagement. I don’t think his love declaration was manipulative, but Katie’s maybe. Although I do believe them when they said they are growing and falling more in love with each other each day. I hope they can mutually overcome any feelings of being a second choice, heal, and start fresh from here on out 💞
We don’t know everything they talked about, maybe he did or she gave him confirmation but they didn’t show it. Production needs to pump the drama and ambiguity .
we also have to consider that we don’t get to see the entirety of their connection. greg and katie’s relationship was built up the whole season. we rlly didn’t see that much from blake.
@@sydneyrosant1400 Well, he wasn't there that long. They couldn't have had too much of a connection since she barely knew the guy.
The only acting I saw was Katie pretending to be as happy as she was at the AFR. Why are all the bachelor commentators taking her side??? Greg was real. Katie was acting the bachelorette.
Great episode! This psychologist was a lot better than the one you had on the other day. You can tell she’s very good and made a lot of sense with a lot of the topics discussed today. And again this just validates my opinion that Katie is a princess who only cares about herself and has a lot of growing up to do, especially the way she attacked Greg and used all those terms that she didn’t even know what the hell she was talking about and I’m team Greg all the way!
Lol 'this therapist is much better than the other one...because she validates my biased opinion' Sorry, but that is not how therapy works. Confirmation bias is a thing that maybe you (and Nick..) can benefit from.
I think one of the reasons Katie was being mean to Greg and didn't take the mature approach was cause she did mentioned she thought he was the one, and now she is with Blake... it's like Katlynn Bristow had to dismiss Nick in every single interview just to Sean won't get jealous. Also Rachel was like 180 when trying to explain her breakup with Peter Kraus pretending like it was always Brian... who wants to have a man with damaged ego? it makes sense..
The Bachelor and Bachelorette scenarios just are not natural, to people who believe in monogamy. I never was able to kiss one guy one night and another guy the next night in my dating days. I am just a person who values loyalty and faithfulness and it just felt so wrong to me.
Yes Katie was drawing the line at telling multiple people she loved them. But Greg's line is obviously not dating multiple people at all.
Loved the football metaphor LOL
Men and women are different. Katie may have needed more time to know how she feels about Greg and Blake.
Great podcast as always!
Greg is deep and depressed. Katie is happy and shallow.
Katie thought it was so wrong for Greg to talk to her in that manner but now she is treating him worse. How does that make sense??? He did it out of hurt. She is doing it out of spite. To me, that is worse. Greg did not go after her the way she did last night. Maybe, I am in the minority. I don’t see Blake being compatible with Katie. They are too much alike. I hope they can make it work.
Why do you think Katie is not hurt too?
What friend of Nicks is a new tattoo artist and practicing on his arms right now 🤣😂
So people are mad Katie came in angry I would be angry and she should be allowed to show her anger they didn’t click weren’t a good match and found out neither have to be the villain I hope there both happy now although I hear Greg is mentally in shambles and Katie is making the best out of a situation she didn’t really want or editing made us believe because the same thing happened with Rachel we thought it Peter he wouldn’t commit so she chose Bryan and there happy. Hopefully Katie will be happy the fans put to much pressure on the cast. Good season though.
diagnosing anyone based on produced, highly manipulated, frankenbites is moot
Katie 100% would have picked Greg if that whole thing didn’t happen & he didn’t leave. She was literally telling him that when they were fighting
Your best video yet!
Why is Greg’s nasty behavior not being talk about in depth… attachment style or not he acted horrible and she constantly validated him..It’s awesome to have this smart therapist.. Maybe it would be cool to have another one who maybe disagreed with Nick or had a secure or avoidant attachment style.. and sees Greg behavior differently..
Not only people who were triggered saw and felt how completely manipulative, emotionally abusive, and hurtful Greg behavior was.. I have not been in abusive relationships, I didn’t get triggered.. I did not like Greg and Katie together and don’t find him attractive… I can see the way he treated her was wrong..
It’s her Journey and she wasn’t sure who she was going to pick 100% I did find the big shift in her surprising with Blake.
Oh my.. Aunt Lyndsey was so dismissive and rude and ugly with Blake. Her mom was better, I felt bad for Blake to but he handled it so Good… and yes Katie has a lot of pressure from those two women.. or as they call themselves female 🙄
I totally understand thinking the way Blake acted, treated Katie, he is Goodhearted, Mature, Secure, Smart, Kind and Knows how to Love.. and knows how to treat women with respect, love and value.. Yes, this makes him better.. A better man and a better partner..
I agree with the therapist with the Fact that Katie can be in love with Blake and still be wanting to hold Greg accountable.
She was amazing while confronting him and holding him accountable.. I think she could of actually used way more adjectives to describe his behavior.. I was so proud of her, and agreed with everything she said to him… She was brave and strong and smart.. Queen Katie!
There is a problem with our culture if we only use the term empowering women when it looks pretty, and it’s comfortable and it’s sexy.. but The moment a woman speaks up, talks about her experience and holds a man accountable for his actions she is “too much” “too aggressive” “too emotional” this is wrong.
I never believed Greg on the show and on this ATFR.. I don’t think he was there for her and for a proposal and I don’t think he loved her..
I think he used his emotions from his Dad and transferred onto her.. He was acting in my opinion.. The way he laughed when she called him out on being there for acting purposes.. on ATFR is called Breaking Character and he was very non emotional as well.. He was trying to manipulate the audience, saying what sounded pretty and looked good.. and apparently did a great job because people still are like poor Greg.. I think he was lying..
Maybe Nick will have I love Greg tshirts and team Greg mugs.. next episode.. 😉
He did have another psychologist on, who was measured and unbiased, didn't want to diagnose anyone (because this is an edited tv show), and who did point out how Greg's behaviour, however unintentional, shows signs of gaslighting. But I think that's one of the reasons she's not the one on this podcast today.
This is a great episode!!!
I really hope that Nick asks Greg what his preferred outcome would have been from the fight with Katie. I get that he didn't like her giving bachelorette answers but what did he want her to say or do? He did say in AFR that he didn't want to ask her to leave the show but then what did he actually want? I wish we got that in AFR but that was a train wreck
Can Nick please for once not make everything about him & his failed relationships.
Everyone talking about trigger warnings is trying to make this about them and their failed relationships. The narcissism of this generation is astonishing to me.
It’s natural and human nature to relate moments to yourself
It’s NICKs podcast. Who is he going to relate the relationship too, yours? HE has this podcast because he has been on all sides of this process and I for one am here for it!
There’s no way Greg would’ve coped with Katie’s Aunty! Blake was a champ
Random question, did anyone else think it was odd that they had no after elimination interviews all season?
This season put a light on how ridiculous the bachelor/bachelorette environment has become. Without blaming anyone, it was a bad season. Seeing the previews for BIP, I was not impressed. It has become more about DRAMA and less about real connections. The show has had a great run; but the best is over.
Nick why r u being so diplomatic? If a guy expressed venom like Katie would it be acceptable? If its all abt bach/bachlt why waste time in giving roses and fake asking will you accept this rose? You'll missed an imp point - Greg reacted tht way as he was hurt after cold response in a tense env, she planned every vitriolic sentence after finding her "true love" in a calm happy setting. She was intentionally cruel.He wanted to save his heart then , but she wanted to destroy him socially n ensure he never gets selected bachelor. Strange tht instead of her love story being the highlight, she came across as a vindictive scorned ego hurt woman.
“You’re the pretty boy, you’ve probably done this to other women, and I am an advocate for all women. And I’m going to champion this cause, and because lots of other men walk away with no consequences, I will make sure there will be consequences.” YAAAAAASSSSS Dr. Strachowski!!
I hope you interview Justin !!
Katie proved tonight that Greg was right and she was more about her Bachelorette role. If indeed it was going to be Blake why the melt down about Greg leaving? Was this her ego talking/groveling? Did she want him to stay another week so she could have 3 instead of 2 choices. This panel is trying to be diplomatic but Katie behaved disgraceful in the ATFR. I think she was the real actor pretending to be anti bullying on Matt’s season.
No she was mad and wanted to return the energy Greg gave to her and before he came out he said he wouldn’t change a thing really he was pretty mean to her didn’t want to change that
Totally agree with you.
@@orpflo4845 so be immature and go tit for tat?
Yes she is the actor here not
Before she came out Greg said he had no regrets about how he acted and spoke to her. I would be mad at that too.
I love Dr Diane!
How much do you want to bet that Greg is the next bachelor?
Never liked Katie. There's a reason most the girls her season didn't like her and why so many of the alum have stuck up for Greg and Thomas. It's not just jealousy. She's toxic and they probably have the inside scoop and know it.
This is annoying me because they are giving Greg too much credit. He didn't feel bad for how he treated Katie and he said no regrets. He ce in all smiley face saying he was doing good and was happy about everything turned out. Then when he did apologize to Katie, he was like "I'm sorry you felt that way..." Aren't you always critiquing people for not having a good apology...
The Aunt is not healed from Trauma. She may not understand a healthy union and is projecting on the Katie and it’s unfortunate. But I have a feeling Blake’s Mom wil help balance that for them.
She was attempting to make damn sure that Greg would never become the bachelor out of spite ... lol wouldn't it be awesome and funny if he was the nest bachelor .. If they did it just to fuck with her ....
He would be a horrible bachelor
nick it's not even a question.. she TOLD greg she was gonna pick him AND was planning on moving to NY to be with him, and that's why when her fam asked her where she and blake were gonna go after the show she had NO answer. that's also why she was so mad at AFR, bc the way she saw it was greg ruined her perfect plan she had in her head the whole show when he left, hence why she apparently "booked her flight home". it really makes me question katies character since she can get engaged and react like that to blake after what happened with greg and how BROKEN she was. also pissed me off that she told blake she loved him while justin was still there after all the shit she just went through with greg since that's what the fight was started ab. overall im so disappointed with this season, and i think katie looks so stupid getting engaged to blake as he was her 3rd choice and most likely just did it to end the show how she felt like she had to just to prove something (and he's annoying ASF but thats just my opinion) it doesn't look like she's really that into him, and she clearly is still holding onto anger and stuck in the past with what happened to greg. such a mess, im so done with this and ready for paradise
Yet again Nick belittles the women and particularly Katie in this situation suggesting that she can only have one approach at the finale...either 1/rejoice at her engaged happiness or 2/ lean in to Greg and tell him off for his behaviour... It's almost as though it's too complex for a woman to have two concurrent thought patterns according to Nick....[ obviously both of valid and both can be enunciated correctly as Katie has done/ albeit an angry response to Greg who has a history of this abuse with prior women & deserves to hear it & be called out ]