Every time I listen to these videos (meat); I cry! Been struggling being worthy to get back to the temple and “care” almost… but I’m serving at the bishops storehouse this weekend in Atlanta and just thank you guys!!! Truly you guys, along with me paying tithing helps me keep my head above the drowning waters. So to all 4 of you, thank you!! Truly! What you guys do matters and helps me stay and just try 1% a little more each day!!! So thank you.
No one is truly worthy to enter the Temple. If one is honest with one's self, they would have to admit that they fall way short of the mark in their daily thoughts, habits, attitudes or fantasies. That's why the Attonement was necessary and why it's so very important not to be too hard on oneself for being human. Having said that, it's in each of our control the choices we make and situations we place ourselves in. Certain situations we may be confronted with are easy to handle if one makes the decision beforehand how they will handle that situation. Then ask Father daily for the strength to follow through and staying true with those decisions. It's putting on the full armor of God. If we do that we'll do just fine. And if we screw up? Well, that's what repentance is for. And if we really mess up bad? That's why the Bishop is there. Just remember, that no matter what, Father, and Christ will always be there for you and will NEVER stop loving you in the least degree.
Pres Nelson counseled us to joyfully repent daily. It’s a gift to be able to repent! Christ rejoices when we turn to Him and keep trying. Your failures and sins are part of the plan, not a surprise to Him. Use your sins to bind you to Christ, not as a wedge to keep you at a distance from Him. He knows only He can make you worthy and sanctified. Give Him your heart and let Him do the healing. You will never be able to do it for yourself. And… He created you. You are everything to Him. Your sins do not equal your worth. Put Him first and He will make you worthy! Just the fact that you long to be worthy says so much about your heart.❤ That’s all He asks, is your heart! ❤️☀️ You’ve totally got this!
I like was Bruce Porter says, Without an Endowment of Divine origin we become, as the beast, obsessed to live and die in the worldly satisfaction of pride and the flesh.
The Evangelical perception of Heaven is actually more incomprehensible than what is comprehended by the King Follett discourse; that we go to Heaven and just sing praises to God for all eternity is ridiculous. Even CS Lewis recognized our potential: “The command Be ye perfect is not idealistic gas. Nor is it a command to do the impossible. He is going to make us into creatures that can obey that command. He said (in the Bible) that we were ‘gods’ and He is going to make good His words. If we let Him-for we can prevent Him, if we choose-He will make the feeblest and filthiest of us into a god or goddess, a dazzling, radiant, immortal creature, pulsating all through with such energy and joy and wisdom and love as we cannot now imagine, a bright stainless mirror which reflects back to God perfectly (though, of course, on a smaller scale) His own boundless power and delight and goodness.” Mere Christianity
Thank you, all four of you, for helping us learn together. I have been attending the temple for more than four decades, and studying the scriptures for more than 5 decades. Yet my knowledge and understanding of both have exploded a hundred fold these last six months with you guys (and a few others: Andrea Woodmansey, Margaret Barker, Jack Logan, Don Bradley, ...).
@@daveduncan2748 YES THIS! I too have felt extremely accelerated in my understanding and learning this past 2 years! It’s like it all started to click. And you are literally listening some of my favorites!! Please list more recommendations
@@JJones.SideKick YES!! I came across his channel two years ago and ended up completely binge watching every single episode he ever put out! I couldn’t get enough and my love and understanding for the scriptures just exploded! I’m so grateful for Jared Halverson
The King Follett discourse is THE PEARL that everyone religious person should be searching for and when they find it would be willing to give up ALL that they own to possess it! I love all your discussions and look forward to everyone of them. PLEASE keep them coming!
A fake pearl... Odd, the Bible states many times that there are no other gods besides me. Even the Book of Mormon stated that there were no other gods besides God. That is, until Joseph Smiths theology changed and morphed to fit his new narrative. Below are several examples of the Book of Mormon and D&C contradicting itself as Joseph Smith changed his mind. IT IS ALMOST AS IF JOSEPH SMITH MADE THE WHOLE THING UP AND GOD WASN'T INVOLVED!!! Here is the Book of Mormon stating explicitly that there is only one God. Book of Mormon: Alma 11:27-39, 44; 2 Nephi 31:21; Mormon 7:7; 3 Nephi 11:27 Here is the D&C stating explicitly that there are plural Gods. Doctrine and Covenants: Section 121:32; 132:18-20, 37 Creation - One God - B. of M. - 2 Nephi 2:14; Jacob 4:9 Pearl of Great Price - Moses, Chapter 2 Creation - Plural Gods - Book of Abraham - Chapters 4 and 5 God's word is unchangeable - B. of M. - Alma 41:8 God's word is changeable - D. & C. - Section 56:4-5 No Pre-Existence of Man - B. of M. - Jacob 4:9; Alma 18:28, 34-36 Man Pre-Existed - D. & C. - Section 93:23, 29-33 P.G.P. - Bk of Abraham 3:18, 21-23 Death seals a mans fate - B. of M. - Mosiah 2:36-39; Alma 34:32-35 Chance after death - D. & C. - Section 76:106-112; 88:99 Here is the Book of Mormon stating explicitly that God is a Spirit - Alma 18:26-28; 22:8-11 Here is D&C stating explicitly that God has a body - D. & C. - Section 130:22 Below are bible verses stating that there are no gods besides God. Isaiah 45:5 “I am the Lord, and there is no other; Besides Me there is no God. 1 Timothy 2:5 ESV For there is one God, and there is one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus, Ephesians 4:6 ESV One God and Father of all, who is over all and through all and in all. John 4:24 ESV God is spirit, and those who worship him must worship in spirit and truth.” Deuteronomy 4:35,39 - Unto thee it was shown, that thou mightest know that the LORD he is God; there is none else beside him. Deuteronomy 6:4 - Hear, O Israel: The LORD thy God is one LORD. Deuteronomy32:39 - See now that I, even I, am he, and there is no god with me Samuel 7:22 - Wherefore thou art great, O LORD God; for there is none like thee, neither is there any God beside thee 1 Kings 8:60 - That all the people of the earth may know that the LORD is God, and that there is none else. Isaiah43:10 before me there was no God formed, neither shall there be after me. I, even I, am the LORD; and beside me there is no savior. Isaiah44:6 I am the first, and I am the last; and beside me there is no God Isaiah 45:21 there is no God else beside me Isaiah 46:9 - For I am God, and there is none else; I am God, and there is none like me. I can go on an on and on... the Bible is quite clear.
Non-Mormons think we're evil for believing we (humans) are the literal offspring of God. In their minds, we think we can become equal to him. What they don't realize is that God will ALWAYS be our God even when we become gods ourselves. Your father doesn't cease to be your father when you yourself have children... Instead, you make him a grandfather. When we become gods ourselves, God becomes God of gods. That is how we glorify our Father in Heaven. If you believe that God can't have offspring, then you believe He isn't all-powerful. We and all of His living creations have a power that He doesn't possess? He isn't some narcissist who created underlings to tell Him how great He is for eternity... He is our loving Father in Heaven, and like all good fathers, He wants us to have all of the joy and happiness we can have; like any good parent, He wants His children to reach their highest potentials and enjoy all that He enjoys.
I want no part of any philosophy or creed that tells me I can’t have everything my Heavenly Father has. Christ himself said we’ll be “joint heirs”. That sounds pretty good to me.
The thing that is feels off isn’t that people get to be like God, that is a traditional teaching. the problematic idea from this sermon and Abraham chapter three is that the LDS God is a creature among an infinite number of other coeternal creatures. The Traditional Christian idea views God as the source of all things in whom we have our being.
If there us more then one universe a multiverse then everything is fine . God became exsaulted and a Gid un universe 15 . He organized everything in this universe 616 Everything here springs forth from him
@mkprr Why can't both of those aspects of God be true? God is the source of all things for me. That doctrine doesn't negate or interfere with the existence of other Beings like Him. I don't see the conflict.
Love the doctrines that come from the King Follett discourse! They are beautiful and they make sense. These are the only explanations that I can make sense of these ideas. The restored gospel is amazing!
I love the scene in the Disney Movie Hercules. Hercules is struggling to fit in and feels different (how many of us felt like this). He was pointed to the Temple to find answers. where he received the knowledge that he is the son of God, and with this knowledge, he comes to the realisation that if God is his Father, then he also is a God
The witness of the Holy Ghost that Joseph saw the Father and the Son is the firm foundation that my faith and testimony is based on. It was the biggest and most powerful moment I have experienced, and is undeniable. What a gift!! How merciful the Lord is to impart truth to us, out of love.
Thinking about your the subjects you guys have been covering makes me so excited for this next phase of the restoration. The world needs these truths! They change everything.
I loved listening to this episode; you brought up some great points. The more I listen to the Stick of Joseph podcast, the more I learn from it. I appreciate what you do. I am sure there is a lot of preparation involved for each episode. Thank you.
I second this! I've enjoyed reading them myself, as they give some interesting context to the continuing restoration of all things. We don't believe all the same things that were taught in the lectures on faith, but I still find them edifying and instructive, kinda like reading apocryphal works. Add the big brains of Mike and Dave, and we have an awesome recipe for learning.
Lectures of faith dont even sound like King follet's discourse. They believe Oliver Cowdery wrote them and they don't have the same meaty feel that Follet has.
It's actually believed that Sidney Rigdon wrote them. They're great though, and we should discount them. Bruce R. McKonie called them one of the most important theological works in the church, and there were almost added bacn to our canon in the 1970s.@@CrackedCandy
This was amazing, but I was slightly distracted the entire discussion by Dave's laptop sticker, I read bann'd books, knowing it had to be a Hebrew or Greek PUN!! 😅 Sure enough, it is the Hebrew word meaning "sacred territory" or "devoted to God" ❤ I seriously love these guys, all 4 of them, and what they have opened to us with their scholarly curiosity, wisdom, and sense of humor! And everyone, let's keep Hayden and Jackson in our prayers as they are deployed ... praying over their wives and children, as well. I'm looking forward to the "Mike and Dave read books" episodes until the boys return home! 🙏
This is soooo good! Meat is what we need more of. To those who open their eyes 👀 and give their life to Christ it is clear that God is giving them the mysteries of His Kingdom.
I had many impressions while listening to you guys in this video. One of them was, I’ve been praying and wishing to know more of my heavenly mother from a very young age, and here it is. Line upon line, precept upon precept, here a little, there a little. There is still so much we don’t know about her. And I may never understand why we can’t pray, “dear Abba and Imma, …. In the name of our Savior Jesus Christ, Amen.” Arent they all our family? I just don’t understand why we can’t. At this point the question is what is truly distracting from our Savior. But I am grateful for the knowledge that you guys are sharing with us, who have eyes to see and ears to hear. Thank you so much guys!!!
The way I’ve heard it-and I don’t know if this is from credible Church sources or I just heard it from a bishop or my parents-God has not revealed much about our Heavenly Mother (other than the fact that we have one) because He loves and respects her so much that He does not want to subject Her to the cruelty of man. In other words, He doesn’t want mortals to blaspheme and take Her name in vain and curse Her like they do to Him. It’s one of the greatest examples of true love in my eyes. He’s protecting Her. Again, this is just what I’ve heard from others over the years so don’t quote me on anything.
@MRC11392 ive heard that too, but on another episode they talk about her, El Shaddai, the breasted God, and there were breasted statues with large eyes meaning they could see spiritually and large breasts meaning they were lactating or a nursing, motherly mother. We just don't know. I guess it isn't important for our salvation, or we would
The simplest answer is because we've been commanded to pray to Heavenly Father in the name of Jesus Christ. We are utterly estranged from the Divine except through the mercy and Grace of Jesus Christ. Heavenly Father speaks infrequently in the scriptures. When He does its nearly always to say "Hey, this is my Son, listen to Him". This is the revealed truth. One God, and His Son who brings us back into His presence and is our advocate with Him. We know that we all have a Heavenly Mother. That is the revealed truth. But from there we don't know any more. Is there just one? Are their many? Does she sit as judge like the Father does? In creation does she brings forth worlds or people or both? All questions that whilst interesting ultimately take us away from what we need to focus on. Christ and His doctrine. If Heavenly Mother did speak, it would be the same as Heavenly Father pointing us to Christ. My two cents for what its worth.
@@MRC11392Many people believe this, but let me make it very clear that this is speculation. Not once has this ever been preached by a General Authority. I personally don't believe this is the case, because it actually sounds rather cruel to me for a Father to hide away a child's Mother, and there is evidence that Heavenly Mother was written about in the earliest books of the Bible before man removed her. It wasn't God who hid her, but man. BUT if this theory helps you feel closer to God, then that's great.
A big thanks to you all from Switzerland- you inspire, teach, enlighten and motivate - never overbearing or preachy - a new light on temple worship so much needed for the rising generation and all - a new dawn of understanding our eternal destiny - such power the World doesn't know of and certainly cant wield.
Thank you Stick of Joseph. I’m home sick on Sunday , missing Sacrament, primary program Sunday . I’m bingeing on Dave, Mike on the Stick of Joseph. Thank you so much, to all of you. Sister Messinger (Messenger)
Yall use the technology age for the best and do it with grace. I appreciate yall doing what you do and not doing with a hidden agenda but as earnest seekers of truth!!!
It's so great Dave has a new jacket! 😉 A great discussion. I've been a member for 50 years and this is the first time I've heard an in depth discussion on this sermon. I think Joseph Smith can stand with any of the great philosophers but he speaks truth. Lectures on Faith is a great work, that stands with the King Follett sermon. Thank you for not shying away from it. Love your channel.
I’m not LDS but I started researching it in the early 1970’s. At that time it was presented to me that the goal of Mormonism was for humans to progress to become a God and that our God was once a man.
Correct. All descendants of Adam and Eve are spirit children of Heavenly Father and Mother. The purpose of this life is to test us and try us to see if we will live a life that is a kin to the life of Jesus Christ. However, this testing ground is a prison that we can not escape without the direct help of Jesus Christ. So even though one lives a good life, no one can match the righteousness of Jesus Christ. So to obtain the grace of Jesus Christ, whereupon we can receive all that Jesus Christ promises to share with us, we must have a covenant with him. To obtain those covenants, you must have an authorized agent to conduct the covenant. It's the difference between being married and just saying I love you. If you accept Christ but have no covenant with him, then you can escape this prison, but you will not enjoy all that Christ has to share with us. Rev: 3: 21
God’s embodiment is important because it shows us the nature of eternal progression and our transcendent familial relations. If He was just a spirit, it would signal that bodies are not important in terms of growing in light and truth to perfection (but they are). It also shows us we are the same type of being, that although we are so far from God in character, we are still His literal children (as opposed to being arbitrary humans).
I just want to let you know that as the 11th viewer of this show that makes it to the end, (haha) how your content and insights ring so true and have bolstered my understanding and testimony of the Gospel of Jesus Christ. Thank you for sharing your diligent efforts and scholarship. 🙏🙏
I consider this meat and potatoes of my gospel learning as well as going to the temple weekly and going to church. I love you guys so much. I’m so happy that I found your channel make God bless all of you. I look forward to watching more of your content.
Thanks so much for this discussion. It answered the question I have had about “why” we spend so much time on the creation in the temple. I knew I was missing something big and now my eyes have been opened.
Okay, guys, here is my comment. I have been on fire for learning, especially the last 3 yrs. It seems a fire has been lit. WOW! You stoked it again. I am eagerly waiting for Dave Butler's book In the Lauguage of Adam Nov. 16th. Just today I got a book by Margaret Barker. It seems I just can't get enough! I am going to have to buy another bookshelf for all the good books I am purchasing and reading, and studying. I like having the hands on books to reference and such. I am changing, and I know it. I love my scriptures, Come Follow Me and all the scholars teaching those wonderful lessons. There has never been a better time in my life for learning. I am starting to get a feeling that I might actually know Jesus Christ when that day comes I will stand before him. I say that in humility. Thank you for helping me to stay curious. I love you two brothers, your guests, and the many amazing podcasts. Thank you, your sister in the gospel
I have learned so much from these discussions and I’m so grateful for the doors of study that you have opened to me. I can’t find enough hours in the day to get through the information that I want to know more about; I started getting up at 4:30am to have more study time! How in the world do you all find the time?!
My dad taught us about the King Follett discourse when we were young children. On a couple occasions as a child or teenager, I would be talking with Heavenly Father and ask: when he was in my position, what career did he have? I asked if he was a plumber or a businessman. He haven’t told me yet, but I’m still wondering. When I go home, I might remember and it will be obvious, or I will ask Him. 🤷🏼♀️😊
Mike said about In The Language of Adam … “Give it A read”. I am on my third time of listening to the book, and still befuddled about the text. I need to buy the printed text so I can highlight key data and be able to reference the truths. Mike may be able give it “A” read … I ain’t that smart. Keep it Going.
I think people who complain about discussing Heavenly Mother are, in fact, a product of apostacy. Our articles of faith say we believe that God will yet reveal IMPORTANT things pertaining to the kingdom of heaven (not just trivial things), and we know the Israelites had a much more extensive worship of a divine female figure than we currently do. This suggests to me that we are in an apostacy, and likely in part because many people are not ready or even actively opposed to seeking more knowledge. Pretty much any lens through which I view the problem of a lack of knowledge about Heavenly Mother screams that we are missing out on something critical. 1) Centrality of the doctrine to foundational principles. Joseph Smith asserted that understanding the nature of God is critical for faith and salvation. If so, then can we safely ignore Heavenly Mother and claim to have a complete understanding of salvation? 2) Analogy to life. You leave your childhood home to learn to be an adult. You are encouraged regularly to speak to your father, who speaks regularly to you. You never hear from or about your mother. Would you assume that everything is all right, or would you being to be seriously worried? Why should we think differently in our mortal separation from divine parents? 3) Relevance and usefulness to current problems. If you cannot see the significance of an eternal, divine role for women, that works in harmony with the male role, now you are either completely unaware of anything happening in the world, or willfully ignorant. In fact, I think the church struggles to address issues of marriage, gender identity, and the importance of family and children precisely because we are willfully remaining in apostacy, rejecting the very messages we need most to complete our understanding of the temple and exaltation. None of this takes away for Jesus's role as Savior, it just beautifully illustrates and completes the plan of salvation, almost like a chiasmus: Heavenly parents create the world They create man The send Jesus Jesus is the way, Jesus guides the man through the veil Back to heavenly parents in a celestial world. And given the emphasis of Wisdom being at the gate, in Proverbs, I'm pretty sure Heavenly Mother serves a critical function at the veil, which will be a stumbling block for all those that are offended by her existence. It's also in concert with how Jesus taught and acted; he routinely elevated women who had been disregarded. He was a champion of women; and women were critical champions of the testimony of Christ in the early church.
Thank you for sharing your hard earned knowledge and testimonies with us!! At 82, I am enjoying your channel, learning a lot, and trying to remember at least what stands out to me , and the Spirit speaks to my soul.❤
The best revelations of “secrets “are the ones that come directly from the Holy Spirit and cease to be secret and become sacred. Then they become a part of us and we could never not know them or see them or hear them or feel them again. Being taught by the spirit is the ultimate experience that is undeniable. I stayed and watched the entire video. I really have something amazing that I would love to share with David Butler that pertains to his research, but I have no way of knowing how to contact him. I will keep looking.
@@lindamartinez7006 well… I’m starting to think all of this was ordained for me to see and learn or relearn. Now that I have seen it, wish I could share it with more people, but it is some pretty deep stuff and very sacred and I’m trying to figure out how I can gather it all up and show it to other people so they understand. It is a blessing and also a burden sometimes to know things that are special and also to know that people are probably not going to believe you when you tell them.
@@csluau5913maybe it is just yours alone. It was personal revelation. Your telling it with no “authority” for revelation for anyone else just turns into a Daybell situation.
@@karolynpieren5129 it is entirely possible that it was indeed a personal revelation meant for myself alone, however, I did not get the feeling that I cannot share this with anyone else. Sometimes it’s just hard to put in words. I don’t think it is for mass consumption, but I do feel there are certain people that I could share this with who would understand. At any rate, the time and circumstances are not right at the moment, and I still have work to do. I also have other things going on in my life which require my attention. It’s just nice to know that I’m not the only person that is seeing and experiencing things That are “plain and precious “ truth.
It is completely obvious that we have a Mother and that she is divine. The reason that people get worked up about this is that most of the people pushing this view up to this point are doing it from a view of potential apostasy and extreme feminism. Woman are absolutely incredible and should be treated as such, but the feminists got a hold of this idea and immediately decided that Brigham and others had cut off the prophetic line. The reality is that we as a current church have not been able to handle this truth without taking it too far and in ways that are not God's ways. They use it as a bludgeon to gain power and influence, while actively (and sometimes subtlety) degrading the #1 role of a woman (physical creation). Men and women are in fact different and are built to compliment each other. This is a beautiful doctrine! Trying to make us the same is a tactic used by the adversary. Do not fall for the division he is pushing between men and women. We can only do great things together.
I have always loved the Lois and Clark episode where she first finds out he is Superman the first time, she extols all his powers and his response to her is “Superman is what I can do, Clark Kent is who I am” Sometimes when I hear other Christians try to explain the Trinity or the Nicene Creed it reminds me of that Lois and Clark conversation, I can just hear Heavenly Father saying to us that same sort of response that Clark gave to Lois…
Love this and especially your comparison of the glory of parents, thne becoming grandparents, etc. I laughed when Jackson said we don't praise you as our dad and never move out! We don't want our kids to stay with us forever to praise us! We want them to move on and progress and give us grandchildren. So good! Simple but profound.
Brethren and devine feminine? James E. Faust said, “These are challenging times. I believe your spirits may have been reserved for these latter days; that you, like Esther, have come to earth “for such a time as this.” It may be that your most significant, everlasting achievements will be your righteous influence on others, that your divine feminine inner beauty and intuition will find expression in your quiet strength, gentleness, dignity, charm, graciousness, creativity, sensitivity, radiance, and spirituality. Enhance these sublime feminine gifts.”
@truthfromearth i guess I was just meaning that we all have to go through a process. I see what you're saying now. What's your opinion on eternal progression??
So you are saying all beings are uncaused causes. So technically in your philosophy none of us need God because we are god and can create all things being uncaused causes…yep that makes no sense. Sorry.
46:35 - Although I agree with you about apothieosis being the ultimate and final goal, when some of the holiest believers/disciples of Christ (Lehi, Mormon, Alma(?)) talk about departing this life and going to the next, they say they are going to sing God's praises in the choirs above. Books of Enoch, Jasher, etc, discuss the beings in heaven and there are lots of angels and servants and singing.
Not sure if they go over this but I recommend reading each of the scribes records. There is no official full version of the king follet discourse. If you see a copy of it it’s likely a recreation of it from someone trying to combine multiple sources. We’re likely missing a several things from it because each persons version is different.
Guys!!! Genesis 7:15. “Breath of life”And Moses 6:59 “of dust a living soul”. Definitions are given in these scriptures. “ we breathe into them the breath of life and thus they become of dust living soul.” Then god puts them together (sealed) and exalted (to become spiritual beings). Later “we go with Adam and Eve into the garden”. Moses 3:5 and 9. The garden was celestial be for the fall. In summary: they were conceived, born, married, exalted on a world be for this one. Only gods need to “fall” into mortality or condescend(1 nephi 11:16!!
I’d love to have a contextual discussion on Adam-god theory, where it came from, how and why it was eventually dispelled. Could it have connected thinking on the process of receiving a name in temple doctrine?
There are 2 Hebrew instructors. The second is a convert named Alexander Neibauer and he taught Joseph German and Hebrew. He also recorded the last telling of the first vision.
I love these videos. My callings seem to be mostly in the Primary. I get very little meat conversations. I love love love to read books to further my understanding. That being said, I wish I had someone to ask questions and bounce ideas that come to my head. Here is a thought pattern that I've tried to understand. Perhaps you can have some of your pod casts that answer questions from your audience. If I could ask a question this is what I would ask. To set up the question - If Jesus is the first born of God the Father, and Jesus is our brother, how does this make Jesus as part of the God Head? Also, what are we, as spirit children? Does this make us God's too as spirits? If I remember correctly, God gave us the power of agency in the spirit world? That's why Satan rebelled, because he had the power of agency? Right? If he had agency as a spirit, did he know right from wrong? He must have known right from wrong? Does this mean we as spirits sinned as spirits? Could Jesus have been the only spirit who did not sin in the spirit world? Could this be why he is part of the Godhead? I feel safe asking these questions on this podcast. Some people do not like to go down the rabbit hole like this. I am completely okay that I may never know these answers to these questions. This is where faith comes in. I don't HAVE to know all things to believe that the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints is true. Near the end of the Book of Mormon, there is a scripture where ( I believe) Moroni was about to give more information on the plates, but was forbidden. And was told by the Lord, "I will try the faith of my people." This is an exciting fun challenge to me given to us by our Savior. I am okay that I will never know all my answers to my questions. Just having questions keeps me curious and hungry. 😉
The only way I could wrap my head around this when I was younger was the Spirit reassuring me that no matter how we progress, we will forever worship Heavenly Father and Jesus Christ. They will always be our Gods. They are eternally moving forward in Their perfect work, and so They will always be before us and ahead of us, leading the way and passing down Their increase of light and knowledge. We will always exist saved by Jesus Christ, progressing under His grace. If Christ “only did as He saw His Father do,” it stands to reason that Heavenly Father’s mortal experience was also as the Savior on His world, that He created His world, led a perfect sinless life, and performed an everlasting Atonement for His brothers and sisters under the direction of His Father in Heaven.
It is really funny, in the first half, to hear you guys discuss if only God bara (creates or organizes) or can man too. And you site a few places with the trees where man does it, but conclude it’s mostly done by God. And I’m thinking, we women over here are smiling because we bara All Day Long! That’s what we do. Which makes sense that it is part of our nature because we are the ones co-creating with God. I think you get to it in the second part. Super good discussion as always, love you guys.
38:46 Joseph going outside the bumpers means he is going outside what scripture has already taught about God. And every time you go outside the bumpers, you miss.
Its good to see surface dwellers of the King Follet Discourse willing to break through the barrier of Ascending Mysteries, although only above the surface. You know not what you seek to delve into, nevertheless your desire is manifest
All religions, and non-believers too, believe in a circle of life. In my simple mind, this just logically makes sense and our God is a God of logic and sense. 🖖🏼 We are the ones who over think, complicate and confuse logic and common sense. Ex: men in women’s sports.
I teach school. I had a Samoan student named King. He would be a 7th grader now. When he was in my 5th grade class, he was the tallest kid in the school. I had another Samoan student named Prince😊
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Every time I listen to these videos (meat); I cry! Been struggling being worthy to get back to the temple and “care” almost… but I’m serving at the bishops storehouse this weekend in Atlanta and just thank you guys!!! Truly you guys, along with me paying tithing helps me keep my head above the drowning waters. So to all 4 of you, thank you!! Truly! What you guys do matters and helps me stay and just try 1% a little more each day!!! So thank you.
Love and prayers Brother, keep striving!! Read the BOM every day!
@ thank you 🫶
@@HolyOutlaw-1776love all that thank you 😭😭😭😭😭
No one is truly worthy to enter the Temple. If one is honest with one's self, they would have to admit that they fall way short of the mark in their daily thoughts, habits, attitudes or fantasies. That's why the Attonement was necessary and why it's so very important not to be too hard on oneself for being human. Having said that, it's in each of our control the choices we make and situations we place ourselves in. Certain situations we may be confronted with are easy to handle if one makes the decision beforehand how they will handle that situation. Then ask Father daily for the strength to follow through and staying true with those decisions. It's putting on the full armor of God. If we do that we'll do just fine. And if we screw up? Well, that's what repentance is for. And if we really mess up bad? That's why the Bishop is there. Just remember, that no matter what, Father, and Christ will always be there for you and will NEVER stop loving you in the least degree.
Pres Nelson counseled us to joyfully repent daily.
It’s a gift to be able to repent!
Christ rejoices when we turn to Him and keep trying.
Your failures and sins are part of the plan, not a surprise to Him.
Use your sins to bind you to Christ, not as a wedge to keep you at a distance from Him.
He knows only He can make you worthy and sanctified.
Give Him your heart and let Him do the healing.
You will never be able to do it for yourself.
And… He created you. You are everything to Him.
Your sins do not equal your worth.
Put Him first and He will make you worthy!
Just the fact that you long to be worthy says so much about your heart.❤
That’s all He asks, is your heart!
❤️☀️
You’ve totally got this!
I would say, "without knowledge we are beasts, with knowledge we are man, and with wisdom we can be Gods."
I like that!
@@Guycjohnsen ❤️🙌🏻
Well said!
I like it, and from a male's perspective it gives some insight. And with wisdom (our female divine counterpart/spouse) we can be Gods.
@@Guycjohnsen God has already told us that he is the only God there ever was, is, or will be. 🕊
Bout freaking time we get the king follet talk!!!!! thank you!!!! Love you Paul brothers! Be safe come back soon
Amen
So fun!
I like was Bruce Porter says, Without an Endowment of Divine origin we become, as the beast, obsessed to live and die in the worldly satisfaction of pride and the flesh.
💥☀️
They should have Bruce Porter on!
@@katmmcdonald they should!!
Wow!
@@rican8316 Bruce Porter is one of my favorites!
The Evangelical perception of Heaven is actually more incomprehensible than what is comprehended by the King Follett discourse; that we go to Heaven and just sing praises to God for all eternity is ridiculous. Even CS Lewis recognized our potential: “The command Be ye perfect is not idealistic gas. Nor is it a command to do the impossible. He is going to make us into creatures that can obey that command. He said (in the Bible) that we were ‘gods’ and He is going to make good His words. If we let Him-for we can prevent Him, if we choose-He will make the feeblest and filthiest of us into a god or goddess, a dazzling, radiant, immortal creature, pulsating all through with such energy and joy and wisdom and love as we cannot now imagine, a bright stainless mirror which reflects back to God perfectly (though, of course, on a smaller scale) His own boundless power and delight and goodness.” Mere Christianity
Thank you, all four of you, for helping us learn together. I have been attending the temple for more than four decades, and studying the scriptures for more than 5 decades. Yet my knowledge and understanding of both have exploded a hundred fold these last six months with you guys (and a few others: Andrea Woodmansey, Margaret Barker, Jack Logan, Don Bradley, ...).
As❤
Add Jared Halverson with Unshaken Saints to your list...highly recommended!!!
@@daveduncan2748 YES THIS! I too have felt extremely accelerated in my understanding and learning this past 2 years! It’s like it all started to click.
And you are literally listening some of my favorites!!
Please list more recommendations
@@JJones.SideKick YES!! I came across his channel two years ago and ended up completely binge watching every single episode he ever put out! I couldn’t get enough and my love and understanding for the scriptures just exploded! I’m so grateful for Jared Halverson
@mamablux21family30 Yes. He is aMAzing!!!
The King Follett discourse is THE PEARL that everyone religious person should be searching for and when they find it would be willing to give up ALL that they own to possess it! I love all your discussions and look forward to everyone of them. PLEASE keep them coming!
A fake pearl...
Odd, the Bible states many times that there are no other gods besides me. Even the Book of Mormon stated that there were no other gods besides God. That is, until Joseph Smiths theology changed and morphed to fit his new narrative.
Below are several examples of the Book of Mormon and D&C contradicting itself as Joseph Smith changed his mind. IT IS ALMOST AS IF JOSEPH SMITH MADE THE WHOLE THING UP AND GOD WASN'T INVOLVED!!!
Here is the Book of Mormon stating explicitly that there is only one God. Book of Mormon: Alma 11:27-39, 44; 2 Nephi 31:21; Mormon 7:7; 3 Nephi 11:27
Here is the D&C stating explicitly that there are plural Gods. Doctrine and Covenants: Section 121:32; 132:18-20, 37
Creation - One God - B. of M. - 2 Nephi 2:14; Jacob 4:9 Pearl of Great Price - Moses, Chapter 2
Creation - Plural Gods - Book of Abraham - Chapters 4 and 5
God's word is unchangeable - B. of M. - Alma 41:8
God's word is changeable - D. & C. - Section 56:4-5
No Pre-Existence of Man - B. of M. - Jacob 4:9; Alma 18:28, 34-36
Man Pre-Existed - D. & C. - Section 93:23, 29-33 P.G.P. - Bk of Abraham 3:18, 21-23
Death seals a mans fate - B. of M. - Mosiah 2:36-39; Alma 34:32-35
Chance after death - D. & C. - Section 76:106-112; 88:99
Here is the Book of Mormon stating explicitly that God is a Spirit - Alma 18:26-28; 22:8-11
Here is D&C stating explicitly that God has a body - D. & C. - Section 130:22
Below are bible verses stating that there are no gods besides God.
Isaiah 45:5
“I am the Lord, and there is no other; Besides Me there is no God.
1 Timothy 2:5 ESV
For there is one God, and there is one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus,
Ephesians 4:6 ESV
One God and Father of all, who is over all and through all and in all.
John 4:24 ESV
God is spirit, and those who worship him must worship in spirit and truth.”
Deuteronomy 4:35,39 - Unto thee it was shown, that thou mightest know that the LORD he is God; there is none else beside him.
Deuteronomy 6:4 - Hear, O Israel: The LORD thy God is one LORD.
Deuteronomy32:39 - See now that I, even I, am he, and there is no god with me
Samuel 7:22 - Wherefore thou art great, O LORD God; for there is none like thee, neither is there any God beside thee
1 Kings 8:60 - That all the people of the earth may know that the LORD is God, and that there is none else.
Isaiah43:10 before me there was no God formed, neither shall there be after me. I, even I, am the LORD; and beside me there is no savior.
Isaiah44:6 I am the first, and I am the last; and beside me there is no God
Isaiah 45:21 there is no God else beside me
Isaiah 46:9 - For I am God, and there is none else; I am God, and there is none like me.
I can go on an on and on... the Bible is quite clear.
I search for my Lord. You can believe this fairytale if you like...Enjoy the lake.
Non-Mormons think we're evil for believing we (humans) are the literal offspring of God. In their minds, we think we can become equal to him. What they don't realize is that God will ALWAYS be our God even when we become gods ourselves. Your father doesn't cease to be your father when you yourself have children... Instead, you make him a grandfather. When we become gods ourselves, God becomes God of gods. That is how we glorify our Father in Heaven. If you believe that God can't have offspring, then you believe He isn't all-powerful. We and all of His living creations have a power that He doesn't possess? He isn't some narcissist who created underlings to tell Him how great He is for eternity... He is our loving Father in Heaven, and like all good fathers, He wants us to have all of the joy and happiness we can have; like any good parent, He wants His children to reach their highest potentials and enjoy all that He enjoys.
I want no part of any philosophy or creed that tells me I can’t have everything my Heavenly Father has. Christ himself said we’ll be “joint heirs”. That sounds pretty good to me.
The thing that is feels off isn’t that people get to be like God, that is a traditional teaching. the problematic idea from this sermon and Abraham chapter three is that the LDS God is a creature among an infinite number of other coeternal creatures. The Traditional Christian idea views God as the source of all things in whom we have our being.
If there us more then one universe a multiverse then everything is fine . God became exsaulted and a Gid un universe 15 . He organized everything in this universe 616
Everything here springs forth from him
Well said!!!!!!!
@mkprr Why can't both of those aspects of God be true? God is the source of all things for me. That doctrine doesn't negate or interfere with the existence of other Beings like Him. I don't see the conflict.
Love the doctrines that come from the King Follett discourse! They are beautiful and they make sense. These are the only explanations that I can make sense of these ideas. The restored gospel is amazing!
You really believe you will become god....Good luck with that...
I could listen to these guys forever!!! God bless u!
King Follet Discourse, The Temple Endowment, The Book of Mormon, and the Holy Ghost were the quickest way to get Red Pilled in 1844
Political slang... ugh
@@tuvoca825 the matrix is political slang now?
I followed the White Rabbit.
Trump wins the election. If anyone voted for Harris you voted for Satan’s plan.
Can’t remember… red pill… blue pill… which is which??
These videos are never long enough! The abundance and feast of knowledge you all share are so exciting to learn. Thank you for all you do!
Idk if this is the original vision you had for this channel but I know you have all been God-led! I love this so much!❤
I love every episode David and Mike are on. My mind is always blown. But as Joseph Smith said, the doctrine tastes good.
I just discovered this channel. This is the first video I’ve watched; it will not be the last. Thank you.
Because of technology we are able to teach these truths to many more . Many did not have access to information . Thank you for your special gifts.
I love the scene in the Disney Movie Hercules. Hercules is struggling to fit in and feels different (how many of us felt like this). He was pointed to the Temple to find answers. where he received the knowledge that he is the son of God, and with this knowledge, he comes to the realisation that if God is his Father, then he also is a God
Oh my gosh I love that! I will have to watch it again!
A big thank you for all you do from the Netherlands members who are watching this content. Great job!
The witness of the Holy Ghost that Joseph saw the Father and the Son is the firm foundation that my faith and testimony is based on. It was the biggest and most powerful moment I have experienced, and is undeniable. What a gift!! How merciful the Lord is to impart truth to us, out of love.
I am still mad that dad god took away the gold plates...
I really love to listen to Dave Butler. I'm always delighted when I see him on a channel.
The entire panel is enjoyable and informative. Thank you
Thinking about your the subjects you guys have been covering makes me so excited for this next phase of the restoration. The world needs these truths! They change everything.
I loved listening to this episode; you brought up some great points. The more I listen to the Stick of Joseph podcast, the more I learn from it. I appreciate what you do. I am sure there is a lot of preparation involved for each episode. Thank you.
Thank you for this discussion! Next, we need Mike and Dave’s commentary on the Lectures on Faith!!!
Lectures on Faith was just the first Elder's Quorum lesson manual. I don't consider it a doctrinal necessity, and the authorship isn't even clear.
I second this! I've enjoyed reading them myself, as they give some interesting context to the continuing restoration of all things. We don't believe all the same things that were taught in the lectures on faith, but I still find them edifying and instructive, kinda like reading apocryphal works. Add the big brains of Mike and Dave, and we have an awesome recipe for learning.
They have one with I think Todd. But I would like to see them with Mike and Dave
Lectures of faith dont even sound like King follet's discourse. They believe Oliver Cowdery wrote them and they don't have the same meaty feel that Follet has.
It's actually believed that Sidney Rigdon wrote them. They're great though, and we should discount them. Bruce R. McKonie called them one of the most important theological works in the church, and there were almost added bacn to our canon in the 1970s.@@CrackedCandy
Mike Day is the best friend! He’s always lifting others
This was amazing, but I was slightly distracted the entire discussion by Dave's laptop sticker, I read bann'd books, knowing it had to be a Hebrew or Greek PUN!! 😅 Sure enough, it is the Hebrew word meaning "sacred territory" or "devoted to God" ❤ I seriously love these guys, all 4 of them, and what they have opened to us with their scholarly curiosity, wisdom, and sense of humor! And everyone, let's keep Hayden and Jackson in our prayers as they are deployed ... praying over their wives and children, as well. I'm looking forward to the "Mike and Dave read books" episodes until the boys return home! 🙏
I'm so glad my eyes are open to understand who God is and who I am. ❤
God exists and you aint like him...
Love Mike, Dave, Hayden & Jackson!❤❤❤❤
This is soooo good! Meat is what we need more of. To those who open their eyes 👀 and give their life to Christ it is clear that God is giving them the mysteries of His Kingdom.
I had many impressions while listening to you guys in this video. One of them was, I’ve been praying and wishing to know more of my heavenly mother from a very young age, and here it is. Line upon line, precept upon precept, here a little, there a little. There is still so much we don’t know about her. And I may never understand why we can’t pray, “dear Abba and Imma, …. In the name of our Savior Jesus Christ, Amen.” Arent they all our family? I just don’t understand why we can’t. At this point the question is what is truly distracting from our Savior. But I am grateful for the knowledge that you guys are sharing with us, who have eyes to see and ears to hear. Thank you so much guys!!!
The way I’ve heard it-and I don’t know if this is from credible Church sources or I just heard it from a bishop or my parents-God has not revealed much about our Heavenly Mother (other than the fact that we have one) because He loves and respects her so much that He does not want to subject Her to the cruelty of man. In other words, He doesn’t want mortals to blaspheme and take Her name in vain and curse Her like they do to Him. It’s one of the greatest examples of true love in my eyes. He’s protecting Her. Again, this is just what I’ve heard from others over the years so don’t quote me on anything.
The same reason we don't pray to Jesus. It would fall on deaf ears. We pray to God in the name of Jesus. Who are we talking to?
@MRC11392 ive heard that too, but on another episode they talk about her, El Shaddai, the breasted God, and there were breasted statues with large eyes meaning they could see spiritually and large breasts meaning they were lactating or a nursing, motherly mother. We just don't know. I guess it isn't important for our salvation, or we would
The simplest answer is because we've been commanded to pray to Heavenly Father in the name of Jesus Christ. We are utterly estranged from the Divine except through the mercy and Grace of Jesus Christ. Heavenly Father speaks infrequently in the scriptures. When He does its nearly always to say "Hey, this is my Son, listen to Him". This is the revealed truth. One God, and His Son who brings us back into His presence and is our advocate with Him. We know that we all have a Heavenly Mother. That is the revealed truth. But from there we don't know any more. Is there just one? Are their many? Does she sit as judge like the Father does? In creation does she brings forth worlds or people or both? All questions that whilst interesting ultimately take us away from what we need to focus on. Christ and His doctrine. If Heavenly Mother did speak, it would be the same as Heavenly Father pointing us to Christ. My two cents for what its worth.
@@MRC11392Many people believe this, but let me make it very clear that this is speculation. Not once has this ever been preached by a General Authority. I personally don't believe this is the case, because it actually sounds rather cruel to me for a Father to hide away a child's Mother, and there is evidence that Heavenly Mother was written about in the earliest books of the Bible before man removed her. It wasn't God who hid her, but man.
BUT if this theory helps you feel closer to God, then that's great.
A big thanks to you all from Switzerland- you inspire, teach, enlighten and motivate - never overbearing or preachy - a new light on temple worship so much needed for the rising generation and all - a new dawn of understanding our eternal destiny - such power the World doesn't know of and certainly cant wield.
Thank you Stick of Joseph. I’m home sick on Sunday , missing Sacrament, primary program Sunday . I’m bingeing on Dave, Mike on the Stick of Joseph. Thank you so much, to all of you.
Sister Messinger (Messenger)
Yall use the technology age for the best and do it with grace. I appreciate yall doing what you do and not doing with a hidden agenda but as earnest seekers of truth!!!
I’m still hungry. I need more!
I was hoping for another 4 hour episode
It's so great Dave has a new jacket! 😉 A great discussion. I've been a member for 50 years and this is the first time I've heard an in depth discussion on this sermon. I think Joseph Smith can stand with any of the great philosophers but he speaks truth. Lectures on Faith is a great work, that stands with the King Follett sermon. Thank you for not shying away from it. Love your channel.
You guys are actually so goated for releasing this rn
I’m not LDS but I started researching it in the early 1970’s. At that time it was presented to me that the goal of Mormonism was for humans to progress to become a God and that our God was once a man.
Correct. All descendants of Adam and Eve are spirit children of Heavenly Father and Mother.
The purpose of this life is to test us and try us to see if we will live a life that is a kin to the life of Jesus Christ.
However, this testing ground is a prison that we can not escape without the direct help of Jesus Christ. So even though one lives a good life, no one can match the righteousness of Jesus Christ. So to obtain the grace of Jesus Christ, whereupon we can receive all that Jesus Christ promises to share with us, we must have a covenant with him.
To obtain those covenants, you must have an authorized agent to conduct the covenant. It's the difference between being married and just saying I love you.
If you accept Christ but have no covenant with him, then you can escape this prison, but you will not enjoy all that Christ has to share with us. Rev: 3: 21
"As man now is, God once was. As God now is, man may be." - Lorenzo Snow
@ yes!!
@ I’m just interested. No desire to join. My wife was LDS. She left it 30 years ago.
@@Zeett09We love that you are interested. Hope you keep on learning and keep exercising that faith!
God’s embodiment is important because it shows us the nature of eternal progression and our transcendent familial relations. If He was just a spirit, it would signal that bodies are not important in terms of growing in light and truth to perfection (but they are). It also shows us we are the same type of being, that although we are so far from God in character, we are still His literal children (as opposed to being arbitrary humans).
I just want to let you know that as the 11th viewer of this show that makes it to the end, (haha) how your content and insights ring so true and have bolstered my understanding and testimony of the Gospel of Jesus Christ. Thank you for sharing your diligent efforts and scholarship. 🙏🙏
Oh boy, was I excited to see this come up on my feed. Keep em coming. Great stuff ♥️♥️♥️
I can listen to this stuff all day. At work I just put this on And listen to it all day as I work.
You guys are awesome! Thanks for all you do! My testimony has deepened through your content! Thank you!!!!
I consider this meat and potatoes of my gospel learning as well as going to the temple weekly and going to church. I love you guys so much. I’m so happy that I found your channel make God bless all of you. I look forward to watching more of your content.
Thanks so much for this discussion. It answered the question I have had about “why” we spend so much time on the creation in the temple. I knew I was missing something big and now my eyes have been opened.
Okay, guys, here is my comment. I have been on fire for learning, especially the last 3 yrs. It seems a fire has been lit. WOW! You stoked it again. I am eagerly waiting for Dave Butler's book In the Lauguage of Adam Nov. 16th. Just today I got a book by Margaret Barker. It seems I just can't get enough! I am going to have to buy another bookshelf for all the good books I am purchasing and reading, and studying. I like having the hands on books to reference and such. I am changing, and I know it. I love my scriptures, Come Follow Me and all the scholars teaching those wonderful lessons. There has never been a better time in my life for learning. I am starting to get a feeling that I might actually know Jesus Christ when that day comes I will stand before him. I say that in humility. Thank you for helping me to stay curious. I love you two brothers, your guests, and the many amazing podcasts. Thank you, your sister in the gospel
I have learned so much from these discussions and I’m so grateful for the doors of study that you have opened to me. I can’t find enough hours in the day to get through the information that I want to know more about; I started getting up at 4:30am to have more study time! How in the world do you all find the time?!
My dad taught us about the King Follett discourse when we were young children. On a couple occasions as a child or teenager, I would be talking with Heavenly Father and ask: when he was in my position, what career did he have? I asked if he was a plumber or a businessman. He haven’t told me yet, but I’m still wondering. When I go home, I might remember and it will be obvious, or I will ask Him. 🤷🏼♀️😊
I think he was a church janitor that got laid off when the members started to do the cleaning.
Mike said about In The Language of Adam … “Give it A read”. I am on my third time of listening to the book, and still befuddled about the text. I need to buy the printed text so I can highlight key data and be able to reference the truths. Mike may be able give it “A” read … I ain’t that smart.
Keep it Going.
I absolutely loved this
This is awesome! Thanks guys. I studied the Discourse before but gonna go back and do it again!
Thank you brotheren! Beautiful episode
I think people who complain about discussing Heavenly Mother are, in fact, a product of apostacy. Our articles of faith say we believe that God will yet reveal IMPORTANT things pertaining to the kingdom of heaven (not just trivial things), and we know the Israelites had a much more extensive worship of a divine female figure than we currently do. This suggests to me that we are in an apostacy, and likely in part because many people are not ready or even actively opposed to seeking more knowledge.
Pretty much any lens through which I view the problem of a lack of knowledge about Heavenly Mother screams that we are missing out on something critical.
1) Centrality of the doctrine to foundational principles. Joseph Smith asserted that understanding the nature of God is critical for faith and salvation. If so, then can we safely ignore Heavenly Mother and claim to have a complete understanding of salvation?
2) Analogy to life. You leave your childhood home to learn to be an adult. You are encouraged regularly to speak to your father, who speaks regularly to you. You never hear from or about your mother. Would you assume that everything is all right, or would you being to be seriously worried? Why should we think differently in our mortal separation from divine parents?
3) Relevance and usefulness to current problems. If you cannot see the significance of an eternal, divine role for women, that works in harmony with the male role, now you are either completely unaware of anything happening in the world, or willfully ignorant. In fact, I think the church struggles to address issues of marriage, gender identity, and the importance of family and children precisely because we are willfully remaining in apostacy, rejecting the very messages we need most to complete our understanding of the temple and exaltation.
None of this takes away for Jesus's role as Savior, it just beautifully illustrates and completes the plan of salvation, almost like a chiasmus:
Heavenly parents create the world
They create man
The send Jesus
Jesus is the way,
Jesus guides the man through the veil
Back to heavenly parents in a celestial world.
And given the emphasis of Wisdom being at the gate, in Proverbs, I'm pretty sure Heavenly Mother serves a critical function at the veil, which will be a stumbling block for all those that are offended by her existence.
It's also in concert with how Jesus taught and acted; he routinely elevated women who had been disregarded. He was a champion of women; and women were critical champions of the testimony of Christ in the early church.
Is she part of a heavenly harem or a mere concubine?
Amazing! Gives me the fire and desire to keep learning!👍🏼
Thank you for sharing your hard earned knowledge and testimonies with us!! At 82, I am enjoying your channel, learning a lot, and trying to remember at least what stands out to me , and the Spirit speaks to my soul.❤
“…from eternity to eternity.” Defining what an eternity is will help.
Oh Jackson, love your final words 🥹 ~ your biggest fan
Not disappointed by Butlers wardrobe choices today 🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥 #thuglife
💥
Loved this podcast! Couldn't quit listening!! Thank you, brothers!!
Fun fact, April 6, 1830 was a Tuesday. I loved the random Wednesday fact about the endowment.
Love this conversation .
The best revelations of “secrets “are the ones that come directly from the Holy Spirit and cease to be secret and become sacred. Then they become a part of us and we could never not know them or see them or hear them or feel them again. Being taught by the spirit is the ultimate experience that is undeniable. I stayed and watched the entire video. I really have something amazing that I would love to share with David Butler that pertains to his research, but I have no way of knowing how to contact him. I will keep looking.
So agree . The spirit teaches and that is how Eve was taught about the plan and her part . Holy Ghost brings all things to your remembrance .
@@lindamartinez7006 well… I’m starting to think all of this was ordained for me to see and learn or relearn. Now that I have seen it, wish I could share it with more people, but it is some pretty deep stuff and very sacred and I’m trying to figure out how I can gather it all up and show it to other people so they understand. It is a blessing and also a burden sometimes to know things that are special and also to know that people are probably not going to believe you when you tell them.
@@csluau5913maybe it is just yours alone. It was personal revelation. Your telling it with no “authority” for revelation for anyone else just turns into a Daybell situation.
@@karolynpieren5129 it is entirely possible that it was indeed a personal revelation meant for myself alone, however, I did not get the feeling that I cannot share this with anyone else. Sometimes it’s just hard to put in words. I don’t think it is for mass consumption, but I do feel there are certain people that I could share this with who would understand. At any rate, the time and circumstances are not right at the moment, and I still have work to do. I also have other things going on in my life which require my attention. It’s just nice to know that I’m not the only person that is seeing and experiencing things That are “plain and precious “ truth.
I love these discussions.
Thanks fellas 👌, I enjoyed today's discussion. Have a great week 🎉.
Thanks Tom!
Please make a Mike & Dave read books, reading and explaining The Building Blocks of the Universe 🙏🏻
It is completely obvious that we have a Mother and that she is divine. The reason that people get worked up about this is that most of the people pushing this view up to this point are doing it from a view of potential apostasy and extreme feminism. Woman are absolutely incredible and should be treated as such, but the feminists got a hold of this idea and immediately decided that Brigham and others had cut off the prophetic line. The reality is that we as a current church have not been able to handle this truth without taking it too far and in ways that are not God's ways. They use it as a bludgeon to gain power and influence, while actively (and sometimes subtlety) degrading the #1 role of a woman (physical creation). Men and women are in fact different and are built to compliment each other. This is a beautiful doctrine! Trying to make us the same is a tactic used by the adversary. Do not fall for the division he is pushing between men and women. We can only do great things together.
God is and always has been God. Alpha and Omega, the beginning AND the end. He is Eternal.
Agreed! But also, he lived a portion of his life as a mortal!
No contradictions here. I love our eternal God.
@@Misa_Susaki Are you a Christian or a promoter of the Ancient Greek gods???
@@johnrowley310 Christian!
It was the Greek influence that created the absent God with no body, parts, or passions.
I have always loved the Lois and Clark episode where she first finds out he is Superman the first time, she extols all his powers and his response to her is “Superman is what I can do, Clark Kent is who I am”
Sometimes when I hear other Christians try to explain the Trinity or the Nicene Creed it reminds me of that Lois and Clark conversation, I can just hear Heavenly Father saying to us that same sort of response that Clark gave to Lois…
Thank you gentlemen, another incredible episode 🔥🔥🔥
Thank you so much!❤
That was Awesome!!! Thank you! More like this please.
Love this and especially your comparison of the glory of parents, thne becoming grandparents, etc. I laughed when Jackson said we don't praise you as our dad and never move out! We don't want our kids to stay with us forever to praise us! We want them to move on and progress and give us grandchildren. So good! Simple but profound.
Brethren and devine feminine?
James E. Faust said, “These are challenging times. I believe your spirits may have been reserved for these latter days; that you, like Esther, have come to earth “for such a time as this.” It may be that your most significant, everlasting achievements will be your righteous influence on others, that your divine feminine inner beauty and intuition will find expression in your quiet strength, gentleness, dignity, charm, graciousness, creativity, sensitivity, radiance, and spirituality. Enhance these sublime feminine gifts.”
God is an exalted Man!
To assume there was ever a beginning of Beings is not rational.
You say he's an exalted man without a beginning. How does that make sense?
@@cindlou7335 We all have no beginning, and we can be exalted. Where is the contradiction? There isn't one.
@truthfromearth i guess I was just meaning that we all have to go through a process. I see what you're saying now. What's your opinion on eternal progression??
@@cindlou7335 Do I have to have a concrete opinion on it?
So you are saying all beings are uncaused causes. So technically in your philosophy none of us need God because we are god and can create all things being uncaused causes…yep that makes no sense. Sorry.
Thank you for helping us learn more
Love the continued panel
Can't wait for this!
Love the shoutout to the ancient tradition! I’d love for you guys to make a connection to Jack Logan!
Love the Ancient Tradition. Currently on episode 26. Learning so much.
46:35 - Although I agree with you about apothieosis being the ultimate and final goal, when some of the holiest believers/disciples of Christ (Lehi, Mormon, Alma(?)) talk about departing this life and going to the next, they say they are going to sing God's praises in the choirs above. Books of Enoch, Jasher, etc, discuss the beings in heaven and there are lots of angels and servants and singing.
Not sure if they go over this but I recommend reading each of the scribes records. There is no official full version of the king follet discourse. If you see a copy of it it’s likely a recreation of it from someone trying to combine multiple sources. We’re likely missing a several things from it because each persons version is different.
14:05 "I know that thou art a God of truth, and canst not lie"
"Because thou knowest these things..."
Guys!!! Genesis 7:15. “Breath of life”And Moses 6:59 “of dust a living soul”.
Definitions are given in these scriptures. “ we breathe into them the breath of life and thus they become of dust living soul.” Then god puts them together (sealed) and exalted (to become spiritual beings). Later “we go with Adam and Eve into the garden”. Moses 3:5 and 9. The garden was celestial be for the fall.
In summary: they were conceived, born, married, exalted on a world be for this one. Only gods need to “fall” into mortality or condescend(1 nephi 11:16!!
The whole discourse begs for Matthew 23.12 "And whosoever shall exalt himself shall be abased; and he that shall humble himself shall be exalted."
Amazing content guys
I’d love to have a contextual discussion on Adam-god theory, where it came from, how and why it was eventually dispelled. Could it have connected thinking on the process of receiving a name in temple doctrine?
There are 2 Hebrew instructors. The second is a convert named Alexander Neibauer and he taught Joseph German and Hebrew. He also recorded the last telling of the first vision.
Where can you find it
I love these videos. My callings seem to be mostly in the Primary. I get very little meat conversations. I love love love to read books to further my understanding. That being said, I wish I had someone to ask questions and bounce ideas that come to my head. Here is a thought pattern that I've tried to understand. Perhaps you can have some of your pod casts that answer questions from your audience. If I could ask a question this is what I would ask.
To set up the question - If Jesus is the first born of God the Father, and Jesus is our brother, how does this make Jesus as part of the God Head? Also, what are we, as spirit children? Does this make us God's too as spirits?
If I remember correctly, God gave us the power of agency in the spirit world? That's why Satan rebelled, because he had the power of agency? Right? If he had agency as a spirit, did he know right from wrong? He must have known right from wrong? Does this mean we as spirits sinned as spirits? Could Jesus have been the only spirit who did not sin in the spirit world? Could this be why he is part of the Godhead?
I feel safe asking these questions on this podcast. Some people do not like to go down the rabbit hole like this. I am completely okay that I may never know these answers to these questions. This is where faith comes in. I don't HAVE to know all things to believe that the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints is true. Near the end of the Book of Mormon, there is a scripture where ( I believe) Moroni was about to give more information on the plates, but was forbidden. And was told by the Lord, "I will try the faith of my people." This is an exciting fun challenge to me given to us by our Savior. I am okay that I will never know all my answers to my questions. Just having questions keeps me curious and hungry. 😉
39:23 - I have recently come to believe the same thing through some personal revelation. Crazy how this popped up as I have been feeling that!
Great discussion
Excellent video guys
So good this is celestial knowledge 🙏🔥🔥🔥🔥
The only way I could wrap my head around this when I was younger was the Spirit reassuring me that no matter how we progress, we will forever worship Heavenly Father and Jesus Christ. They will always be our Gods. They are eternally moving forward in Their perfect work, and so They will always be before us and ahead of us, leading the way and passing down Their increase of light and knowledge. We will always exist saved by Jesus Christ, progressing under His grace.
If Christ “only did as He saw His Father do,” it stands to reason that Heavenly Father’s mortal experience was also as the Savior on His world, that He created His world, led a perfect sinless life, and performed an everlasting Atonement for His brothers and sisters under the direction of His Father in Heaven.
Love this one, great discussion!
It is really funny, in the first half, to hear you guys discuss if only God bara (creates or organizes) or can man too. And you site a few places with the trees where man does it, but conclude it’s mostly done by God. And I’m thinking, we women over here are smiling because we bara All Day Long! That’s what we do. Which makes sense that it is part of our nature because we are the ones co-creating with God. I think you get to it in the second part. Super good discussion as always, love you guys.
Will you guys do the first three chapters of the book of revelation? Lots of temple stuff.
38:46 Joseph going outside the bumpers means he is going outside what scripture has already taught about God. And every time you go outside the bumpers, you miss.
Its good to see surface dwellers of the King Follet Discourse willing to break through the barrier of Ascending Mysteries, although only above the surface. You know not what you seek to delve into, nevertheless your desire is manifest
All religions, and non-believers too, believe in a circle of life. In my simple mind, this just logically makes sense and our God is a God of logic and sense. 🖖🏼 We are the ones who over think, complicate and confuse logic and common sense.
Ex: men in women’s sports.
So you believing you will be god is common sense.
@ Not at all what I said. Stay curious and hungry.
I got my shirt and its so soft. Thank you. Great product. Ward radio needs to lower their prices
I teach school. I had a Samoan student named King. He would be a 7th grader now. When he was in my 5th grade class, he was the tallest kid in the school. I had another Samoan student named Prince😊