That Chinatown scene is one of my favorite scenes in the whole series. I love what they did with the tour bus rolling by and that line about “New York’s famous little Italy” once being so massive, now just reduced to a square block. It’s the perfect analogy for the mob in the early 2000’s when this was filmed. And Butch looks up and he’s lost, cold and confused… wondering how he got here. It’s just such a great scene.
Remember the scene where Butch was walking in Chinatown while talking to Phil on the phone? The conversation was about the war with Jersey, and how it wasn't going well. Phil seemed unhappy with Butch too. When Butch hung up the phone he looked around and realized he had been walking in the wrong direction. This is symbolic of how the NY mob has been led astray. I believe this is what motivated Butch to make a deal with Tony to end the war. With Phil out of the picture, he wouldn't have to deal with his soured attitude, and Butch would be the de facto leader of the NY family. However, Butch said Jersey had "redundant upper management" and I think he always believed that. He pushed for war because he wanted to fold the jersey mob into NY, and when he saw that Phil wasn't really doing a good job as a leader, he figured he could let Tony kill Phil, then he would kill Tony, and absorb the whole fuckin thing. I believe that's what actually happened.
I believe it too. Chase tries so hard to be coy and never admit it but he never denied it either. I think Butch warmed up to Paulie and Patsy and once Meadow learned from her new husband-to-be that her dad had Patsy's twin brother and Patrick's uncle murdered, she too would be wary of her dad. It seems that Patsy probably became boss and Paulie was either Consigliere or underboss. We know Paulie didn't want to be boss anymore at this point so I doubt he became boss but I absolutely believe NOBODY had reason to keep Tony alive. Even Little Carmine probably signed off on it because he didn't want to have to keep AJ employed in his strumpet series movie company.
I think you are right, except my theory is that Carmine Jr. would be the boss with Butch as underboss. When Carmine Jr. backed out of a war with Leotardo he said this wasn't the way to do it. Then in the sit down with Leotardo and Tony he brought up Leotardo's brother. He was basically saying there's no point in fighting with Leotardo because that will destroy everything. He baited Leotardo into a fight with Tony to remove the upper management, which Butch agreed with. Carmine Jr. is like his father - not what he seems.
They all "bitch out," even when they level up. The men of "The Sopranos" are some of the most emotional creatures on earth. Tony's advantage with Melfi is that he can cycle through all of his emotions with a stranger and then put the mask back on.
The reason he turned on Phil was the phone call where Phil says "When this is over we're going to sit down." When Butch said "I hope so." Phil acted like he couldn't hear him and hung up. Butch knew what Phil really meant by that and knew it was either him or Phil. Plus Butch would end the war and become boss so he really had nothing to lose.
He also called him "kid" there. Which, we know is something that Phil can use as a dismissive term. Tony had gotten really pissed at Phil calling him that once. Butch might have heard that and assumed some even more hostility than Phil was outwardly showing.
He would probably switch to being Little Carmine's underboss. Basically Phil had become absent in hiding when he animorphed into a house, and Butchie was de facto boss already.
Nope. The whole point of the phone call was BUTCH trying to convince Phil NOT to kill Tony ........ when in the previous episode, BUTCH told Phil to KILL Tony and Phil said 'kill a boss... i won't do it' - Just terrible lazy writing
Totally wrong!!!! Butch got Tony's high school records and he discovered that Tony DID in fact have the makings of Varsity athlete. After that the choice was a no-brainer.
Like Tony told Chris " You need to be around to keep your finger on the pulse". Phil started a war and disappeared and left his 2 and 3 to deal with it. They struck Tony hard and they knew full well he wasn't just going to lay down. Payback was coming and they thought it would be one of them. Tony could of easily went into hiding on his own. He didn't, he stayed with his crew and kept his finger on the pulse
I don't think he said that, I think he said "after this is over, me and you gotta sit down" and he replied "I hope so". I edited my original comment. I was only just watching it when I saw your comment and didn't realise the video has mentioned the China town bit
@@mistersonnen848 It was implied tho. Butch wasn't stupid. Plus Phil went and hid and left everything on Butch's shoulders. A boss should take the reins, not run and hide.
@@coldhands2802 it wasn't implied at all. It seemed like Phil was reminding Butch that "we will sit down" as in they will discuss his loyalty and good work and make sure he is promoted, rewarded, etc.
@@flightofthebumblebee9529 and once butch says I hope so Phil acts dumb and hangs up on him, Phil was upset that they couldn’t kill tony and he was gonna kill butch for his failure
The obvious reason is he thought Tony would take out Phil, he would become boss of NY and take out Tony. He could either take over what was left of Jersey or install puppets like Paulie or Patsy to run Jersey and answer to him. It was a win/win for Butch. That is the outcome many feel actually happened.
And there’s this other video that points out excellently how it was A.J.’s girlfriend who was the mole that let it be known that Tony would be at Holstens with his family after Carmella tells A.J. that they were having dinner there, pointing out how she didn’t seem depressed at all in all of her scenes and how she was always condescending to Tony and Carmela’s interactions and that her poster was up on the wall in the New York meeting where Butch and Albie were plotting on who to kill in the N.J. ranks. It was very well narrated.
I think this was the most accurate display of real mafia treachery in the show, Butchie was biding his time and using Phil to get rid of any potential problems in NJ so he could take his spot later on. I feel like there are countless examples of this is known true crime mob stories, especially in the Philly wars.
The feelings i got watching Phil in those final episodes was chilling. You no longer wondered about the end, you knew. Even if he did not directly play a role in Tony’s end, he destroyed the family pretty much, leaving T vulnerable. I had the same reaction to the bikers in the final season of Breaking Bad. Horrifying for what u saw coming.
Butchie wanted the big chair, but not for naked ambition. Butch came up under Carmine. He knew that Phil, vengeful and emotional as he was - could never bring the stability he craved. He also knew Tony as a hothead, with the CoCo’s curbstomp fresh in his memory. Butchie knew that both bosses had to go for any lasting peace. I think he took this idea to Paulie and Patsy, and they heard him out, agreeing to deliver Tony in exchange for Phil. Pretty simple, and plenty of evidence.
True that. My hunch here is that Joey LaRocca killed Tony Soprano. Joey was the illegitimate son of Big Pussy but he realizes that he wants out of the mafia life and he acts like the trigger to Tony’s demise. He had to use a double to avoid the attention because if he saw Tony in the diner, Tony would know that he would be already being set up. He needed a fall guy to appear paranoid. But not from somebody they know.
Little Carmine tells Tony a story about a French finance minister building a huge mansion, outshining the king, and being punished in the end for his ambition. Paulie says something similar: "it's like Sun Tzu says: a good leader is benevolent and unconcerned with fame." Both scenes are played for laughs with horrible mispronunciations, but if you take them seriously, Little Carmine and Paulie are saying the same thing. If you want to survive, lay low and don't be too greedy. Finally, Patsy Parisi says "It won't be cinematic..." when he threatens Gloria. Which is a badass thing to say to intimidate someone. But if we take it seriously, he's saying that there's not going to be a dramatic ending when he plans to kill someone.
The Lupertazzis were not willing to go back to war with New Jersey over the way Phil was killed. In fact, it was actually necessary for Phil to get popped in front of his wife since she was the one controlling Phil anyway. There was a scene in season 6 where his wife was telling him what needs to be done about Vito as Phil lay on the bed silent with no pants on. They couldn't have made it more obvious that his wife wears the pants in the family, not Phil. They literally shot a scene where Phil didn't have any pants on to illustrate this. Next, the Lupertazzis had already given Tony permission to whack Phil. How he does it is of no concern to them. Keep in mind this is the same crime family who's clout has been greatly diminished in recent years by the massive federal indictments Jimmy Petrile's cooperation led to, and the same crime family who's been locked in an endless cycle of bloodshed ever since Carmine Sr. died. They're depleted by now. Furthermore, while it was never stated outright, the past two years would've seen the Lupertazzi family's power in New York wane considerably as a result of the other Five Families creeping in to chisel away at the traditional territories and rackets in the power vacuum the indictments and civil wars created. Lastly, *I will NEVER believe Butch assumed the role of boss after this war.* I will never agree to this when you could see the sheer misery that was written across Little Carmine's face during the sit-down. His defeated, exasperated demeanor suggests he was also taking the L here by doing the one thing it took him several months to realize he didn't want for himself after all- becoming boss of the family (allusion to the conversation he had with Tony earlier in season 6 about his dream of Carmine Sr. wearing the paper crown and being disappointed his son was pursuing becoming a mob boss instead of a family man capable of experiencing genuine fulfillment in his life). Butch also looked to Carmine before answering a couple of times during the sitdown too, which further hints that Carmine was actually the one in charge now- no matter how much it depressed him. Also, based on the news segments the mobsters all watched in Season 5 where Feech, Angelo, Tony B, and Phil were released from prison, and the civil war their returns ignited within the Lupertazzi family, Little Carmine was likely the only candidate the captains and soldiers on the street would accept at this point. The entire Brooklyn faction was disgusted with Johnny Sac, Phil Leotardo, Doc Santoro, and the others' endless fight for the rapidly shrinking profits and prestige that Carmine Sr.'s death spurred.
While he had a small part, he was great in Goodfellas as "Billy Batts" as well as his role as Frank Marino in Casino. While I couldn't locate any information why William Bentvena was called "Billy Batts", the irony is Frank Marino beat the living shit out of Nicky with a baseball bat before being buried alive in the desert with his brother. And what's truly revolting and horrific about the entire gangster culture is nobody is anyone's friend. There was never any resentment between Frank and Nicky and Frank even lied to Remo Gaggi vouching for Nicky when asked about him screwing around with Ginger, but as soon as he's told to get rid of him he rather enjoys the task of killing Nicky ...truly sociopathic.
@@ronfriedman8740 Except it was all Hollywood fantasy. The guy Frank was based on turned rat 5 years before Tony Spilotro (nicky santoro) got killed. And hr wasn't beat with a bat in a cornfield, they were beaten with fists & kicks & strangled with a rope in an IL basement then driven to IN & buried while Frank was in witsec.
I think Butchie's scene at the phone had an ethnic and cultural component too. In the first season they were talking about the "Albanians living in our houses" if they went into their bunkers facing indictments. Butchie was seeing another culture moving in and thriving while they engaged in petty wars, killing themselves off, like little Italy was killed off.
@@DLHarv he’s not suddenly “in Chinatown”, what used to be little italy IS Chinatown now. He both doesn’t know where he is anymore because it is so different, while at the same time recognizing this is his home where he grew up his whole life.
@@Pantsinabucket you didn’t disprove anything the other guy said or really add any new information either it seems like you just wanted to sound smart and make someone else look dumb by saying nothing of substance
There was an explanation for the start of the war. Phil still held a grudge that Tony didn't turn over Blundetto. Not to mention that when Phil was a captain Tony ran him off the road and completely disrespected him. In the real mob guys kill guys over simply laying hands on them, imagine if you ran a button man off the road then choked him all while disrespecting him to other mobsters. The Decalvacante Family could never go against the Gambino's as a lot of guys ended up in Jersey because they couldn't get made in New York. Just like Hesh said he turned to guys like Tony for protection, Tony Turned to New York for the same. Tony broke a lot of rules and the only amazing thing is that war was declared instead of a hit on Tony.
What is so difficult to understand? Phil was going to take care of Butchie, he told him, we are going to sit down and talk and then hung up on him. Butchie knew right there, Phil was going to kill him.
You got it. Phil was angry and said, ''After this Butchie, you and me are gonna sit down.'' Butchie knew that ''sit down'' would be his last. It's obvious. Then Phil hung up on him. What an asshole. Butchie was a MAJOR asset to the NY family.
One of my favorite scenes in the whole series: Phil gets shot at the gas station, falls down and his car rolls over his head. The guy standing in the parking lot watching immediately vomits. That's comedy gold! Absolute cartoon slapstick timing. The first time I re-watched the series after it originally aired, realized that there are many comic moments. The overall message from the writers: These are deeply stupid people.
He has a name - Albert "Albie" Cinaflone. He was Phil's consigliere and may now be Butchie's also. He was the only guy who could question Phil under the guise of counseling. Great character! I agree! Wish he played a bigger part.
One important factor not mentioned was who else was at the final sit-down from New York? Carmine Jr. It is also possible that while Butchie felt abandoned by Phil to fight the war that he met with Carmine Jr for advice since he and Tony have always been linked as friends. It is very possible that it was Carmine Jr that wanted his father's seat and HE played the long game and waited for the last two bosses to go before succeeding power. If you recall the final sit-down when Tony asks for a 'twenty on Phil' how does Butchie respond? He looks at Carmine Jr first who gives him the approval to not get in the way of the Jersey crew to do what they got to do. So Butchie looked sub servant to Carmine Jr so we might see that as evidence of who was really calling the shots for New York.
Every time I watch that scene and scan and scan for him in the windows. All this time I was looking at him and not even knowing it. Since Butch was inside the house, does that mean they are gay, or….am I overthinking things?
I always assumed that Butchie was playing a long game to become boss. He was never "in line", so he needed to work through all the people that were in line, in order to get his shot at being boss, his ultimate goal. He pushed Phil to go to war, because he needed Tony to take Phil out, so Butchie could take the reigns. This explains his sudden about face, and after having watched the show front to back about 6 times now, I've never seen anything that changes my mind about this. As far as the question of who whacked Tony, this has never been an issue for me. I've always just assumed it was part of the machinations set in motion by Phil, and for whatever reason, the person who killed Tony didn't get the message that the war was over in time, the ultimate example of the "bad luck" Tony was always complaining about.
I think butchie still maintained the plan of killing tony then doing business with whoever's left that him and Phil had- just without Phil. Install Paulie or someone as a puppet and basically run NY and NJ
Good point at the trenches thing. Makes more sense. Another thing is Butch wanted a swift victory by aiming at the snakes head and get back on business as usual while Phil wanted a war to the last man thus attracting the feds and any attention from the feds is bad for business. Phil's motivation for war is personal, Butch is just strictly business.
Nailed it. Butch was impatient and confused after the hit on Tony failed. He's looking for an exit strategy from Phil. Phil gives him some bullshit and a promise of an up in the future. Butch tries to press him on it, but Phil irritably shakes his head and hangs up on him. In Mafia terms, "he's not listening". Meanwhile everybody else in the Lupertazzi family is on the mattresses while the Albanians move into their houses... it had to end.
@@seansmith7462 A little help would be good, you can find any theory from a google search, try "was tony soprano a space alien" and you will get stories about Tony being Jabba the hut
Missed the fact when Butchie rings Phil in the Chinatown scene, he has a guy with him. When it turns out that Phil is not going to meet Butchi in person, Butchie signals to the guy that he's not needed. Butchie was expecting Phil to be in the neighborhood and had a guy ready to whack him
I think butchie had everything planned out. In the scene where they were in the hair salon with him and albie, there’s a picture of a young girl/model on the wall, this the same girl who randomly shows up at AJs mental hospital and then starts hanging with him when the war starts, she’s there in the safe house when Carm & Tony say they’re going to halstons diner (where Tony is ultimately killed) the girl has some kinda connection to butchie is my point. With Phil dead and Tony dead he was in the clear to lead nyc as the new boss.
You can't really see it's the same girl. This theory is one of dumbest there is... Tony was already back at his house when the family met at Holstein's, his whereabouts where known to everyone at that point, he wasn't hiding anymore, anyone could've followed him. Mobsters using a 16 year old girl as a undercover informant, jesus fucking christ 😂😂
Phil was bad for business. Carmine clearly pulled the strings better without the title. Butchie answered to carmine in the end and it was clearly a way better deal than Phil’s emotional fits of street violence
At the end of the "freezing" telephone call, an angry Phil says to Butchie "after all this, we should sit down" giving the impression that Butchie could be facing a telling off, demotion or perhaps worse...
I have been searching trought the internet for years expecting to hear this theory about the conection of Butch with the murder of Tony, and I think it combine perfectly with the Paulie-Patsy theory: Butch betrayed Phil and Paulie betrayed Tony, both families moved on from this with new bosses and renewed alliances...Gretting from Brazil and thanks for the explanation, you won a subscriber today!
@@matholomewbrooksopoulos7085 Patsy. His son was engaged to Meadow. He would have known in advance that the Sopranos were having dinner at the diner. Probably still hated Tony for having his twin brother killed.
@@matholomewbrooksopoulos7085 We never got to see Patsy’s true demeanor. I think he was stronger than we give credit. He showed his cold hearted nature when he intimidated Tony’s side piece at the car dealership. He was brazen enough to almost whack Tony & pissed in his pool. Was sharp enough to survive the hit that got Silvio. Then at the last dinner with Tony, it was clear he was the head of his own personal family and didn’t have a controlling wife like Carm. Plus New York would want a NJ boss that would be more controllable. Patsy Parisi forwarded the info to NY of Tony’s dinner location in exchange for becoming the next boss of Jersey.
@@matholomewbrooksopoulos7085 actually, I think that Paulie would become boss, if you remember well, at the final meet with NY, representing NJ were Tony and Paulie, underlining that Paulie was number 2 already, with Silvio and Bobby out...Also, Paulie was an old-school gangster that was to be respected/feared in NJ, I guess Paulie would become boss and Patsy would become captain or consiglieri...Butchy may have thought that these changes would have the jersey family weakened and that would be good for New York, they could have a bigger piece of the pie, as Tony had always made it hard for NY to earn that extra in the construction business ...
Kind of crazy just how many bosses NY had after Carmine died. Never understood why they’d nominate Gerry Torciano but from a writers perspective it makes sense because that shit happens in real life.
Butchie hated Tony. He went to the sit down because Phil’s dissatisfaction with the fact Butchie left Tony alive put Butchie’s position in jeopardy, perhaps even his life. Brilliant move, agree to a truce, let Tony kill Phil then put a hit out on Tony. He’s left in charge and the “number” for Bobby’s life is out the window. Paulie and Patsy are not strong leaders and will be easy to deal with. I actually liked Butch’s character, reminds me of a friend of mine.
I always felt Butch turned on Phil after their phone conversation in Chinatown when Phil expressed his displeasure with Butch's actions. I think at the end of the phone call when Phil said they were gonna have to have a sit-down about it when everything was over, Phil was planning on having Butch whacked and Butch realized this, so he gave Tony the ok to take out Phil to save his own skin.
Leaving the ending scene open to interruption (death or arrest) for Tony in the diner, one can assume Butch allowed Phil to be whacked so Butch wouldn't have to deal with the consequences from NY, could have also had Tony whacked since that's what he wanted anyways. Two birds with one stone so to speak. Thus, that leaves Butch as Boss and Tony out of the way, Butch had no one standing in his way. Just my own opinion
The last phone call between Butch and Phil is the key I think. Phil makes it clear that Butchs’ days are numbered by saying that they are going to “ talk” soon. Butch new it was kill..or be killed.
Butch saw little Italy was pretty much gone as he walked talking to phil on the phone... I bet butch was behind tony getting hit on the last Episode people forget Tony pointed a gun at Butch ...When he got Coco
Byron Johnson Yes he did And went Tony put his guard down... The dude in the members only jacket got him...What’s even crazier that dude appears in an earlier episode in the bar in Brooklyn
Rob in one of the earlier seasons that dude had to leave the bar when Tony walked in with Chris and Sil I believe...Now I’m gonna have to rewatch everything just to put up the episode
Another youtuber suggested that the model/young woman hanging around with Tony's son was the NY families' spy on Tony Soprano and is the only one who could have provided the location and time when Tony would be at the diner. Her picture appears in the office of one of the NY families a couple of episodes before the last episode and she conveniently showed up in AJ's life just as things were heating up between the two sides. As for who gave the orders on Tony's hit, I think that was set in motion by Phil before his death but Butch just followed through on it once his spy, AJ's model friend, gave them a time and location where Tony would be vulnerable.
Butchie triple crossing the bosses of NY and NJ respectively to control both NY and NJ makes perfect sense. He's a surprise. You never see him coming. He represents quiet earnest unfaltering overambition, that is rarely rash or foolish, that is content to wait and bide its time. Seeing all the angles, assesses all the angles and methodically proceeding to manip/control all those angles and achieving the desired outcome. He puts up the front of a loyal soldier/lieutenant and Lupertazzi family fanatic, all the while coveting the top stop for himself. Probably the most interesting character on the show and one the audience knew least about, he's a peripheral character and shadowy. We get the sense he's been around a long time (he's an older cat) and paid his dues but he blends in, he doesn't stand out, being cockeyed makes him at once seem less threatening and yet somehow menacing. You really don't notice him which makes his treachery all the more compelling. He's cunning and wily, springing from the shadows like some feral animal or monster or gollum.
I always thought it was the phone conversation. Remember when Phil says “We’re gonna have a chat when this is over kid” implying a bump or two in which Butch says “I hope so” then, Phil pretends that the line was bad and hangs up. Phil didn’t want to be screwed down on a role for Butch and Butch realised this. It was quite obvious
“Listen kid when you get back we are having a sit down you and me, “ I hope so” “ I can’t hear you, your breaking up” “ I SAID I hope” hangs up Eyes in different directions
Yes, that has alot to do with it,weather butch had a plan before this ti see Phil and Tony go idk,but after the phone call you just referenced, butch saw the writing on the wall,he decided phil would ultimately be an enemy, and then he bid his time till he could get Tony
Nice video. I agree The Sopranos sometimes seems to rush some important plots, while others brew for a long time and are easier to understand, but on re-watching, you do usually find more is said that you might have originally noticed, usually just too subtly to realise on the first viewing. The scene walking through Little Italy and ending up in China Town is a good example.
Let me tell ya a couple of three things, Phil was a grilled cheese filled, tissue soiling dinosaur, who did 20 years in the can btw. He didn't know how the streets had changed. Butchie had his finger on the pulse
I'm surprised you didn't consider the possibility that Butch was playing the Starscream role and helping position Phil as the bad guy. All the aggressive advice he gave to Phil was in person... on the phone and in sit downs with other folks, though, he was portraying the role of someone who didn't want war. He knew Phil didn't have the temperament to really last as the boss, and there was so much churn in that position already, what's one more? HE ALWAYS PLANNED TO BECOME BOSS. He USED Phil! He gets Phil out of the way and he's the boss of that operation and has a good relationship with Tony, who doesn't know his role in setting off the war. Heck, he probably arranged the hit on Tony in front of his family because, as an old school guy, he would've resented the way Phil got clipped in front of his wife and grandkids (there were a couple of people in Tony's organization he could have gone through to help him set it up at that point). At the end of the day, he's the last man standing in the highest position. Maybe he can work through Paulie to shore up the DiMeo operation, maybe he has him clipped too... who knows? He's a ruthless SOB.
Come to think about that now, I have a different theory, butch didn't exactly based Tonys hit exactly on that but over tonys brazenly bashing Carl's shwarbs teeth in front of butch in that restaurant. That was disrespect to him who saw the whole thing and overall new York crew. Take note that it was butch who really floated around the idea of just outrightly liquidating the jersey mob altogether. This was when john and all the top guys were gone, Phil was supreme head.
@@goodwinter6017 Yep that makes sense too. Either way Butch had "old school guy" reasons why he'd "break the rules" and clip Tony in front of his folks, and either way it really does seem like he slickly positioned himself to take over. He's like the ANTI-Tony in that regard. It would be interesting watching a series with HIM as the protagonist
Great thoughts about Butch and how that went down. Personally, I have always thought Phil was going to wack Butch. When they are on the phone and Butch is in the freezing cold, Phil says that when this is all over, he wants to have a sit down with Butch. I have always thought that Phil would have killed Butch at that sit-down. Butch agrees to this saying he wants a sit-down, too, but I think he would later realize that Phil would have taken him out because the hit on the Sopranos wasn't going as quickly as Phil wanted it.
I thought it was pretty obvious. Butch was masterminding everything behind the scenes and lined up everything for Phil and Tony to go after each other.
Looking forward to the video on the Paulie/Patsy angle. IMO something had to have been worked out with the hit on Tony, otherwise it would have been seen as a betrayal of the peace settlement that could reignite the war. Patsy would have been the one in the best position to know where Tony was going to be, since his son was close to Meadow, who was going to meet Tony at the diner. The hitman arrived, saw he had a clear shot at Tony without Meadow there, and took care of business. Meadow could also have been in on the hit, with her parallel parking adventure being a ruse to allow the hitman time to do his job (KIDDING!).
Easiest theory thag no one talks about. He gave the nod to Tony to take him out so he would take out Tony and look like a hero and become boss in the same swing. Real life situation that’s what happens
I always thought Sil's demise was well written...Cause what's magical about his fate is the fact that he's probably going through what Tony went through when he was in a coma...and if he passes his test from the afterlife he will get out of his coma and change his life around if he CHOOSES too...Silvio always had a mind and intellect like a leader just like Tony he just wasn't the main protagonist, which is us to the audience to figure out that on our own which is cinematic brilliance...
Phil implied he would kill butch “we’re going to have a sit down after this is over.” Cell reception was bad but butch said he “hoped so.” But he told Tony war had gone to far and such.
No, no, no! Butch was saying he was hoping for the sit-down. Phil was suggesting to Butch that for all his hard work that when the family wins the war that Phil would reward Butch with bigger money deals and such. Phil wasn't threatening Butch. Wake up and watch again!
Why do people keep saying that? Why the fuck would Butchie say "I hope so" if Phil was implying he was going to kill him? Wouldn't he then stand there with a suspicious look on his face, instead of a confused and forlorn one? I feel like I lose braincells when some of you people give your theories. Butch explains to Tony exactly why he's through with Phil, and it's not because he's afraid of him.
Because Al Capone already tried to take him out and he had to step down so when he thought he might get taken out again...exactly what phil said to him on the phone, he decided to act first. Hence why Phil was take out by Buth aka johnny torio.
I will add that I think Tony busting up Coco actually worked in Tony's favor here. Butchie saw Tony was capable of decisive action and someone to be feared, respected, and potentially a good partner to have in Jersey, as was the case with Carmine Sr.
I believe Butchie had Tony killed as well. Not only to get rid of Tony and can potentially consolidate the New Jersey crew since Paulie has no loyalty and Ally Boy's crew really wouldn't care who they were kicking up to. Don't forget that Tony had Coco's teeth smashed right in front of Butchie. Also, Tony pointed a gun at Butch. They don't let that kind of thing slide.
Why would Butch hit Tony after becoming boss? The hit on Phil was sanctioned by both sides at a neutral venue. Surely, agreements at a sitdown are sacrosanct. If you ever betray them, you show that you can not be negotiated with. Then you can't do business.
I think Butch's reasons are basically what he says. Phil is weaker than he thought, and not quite as devoted to the rules of the life as Butch thought, so he said 'screw it'. If Phil isn't who Butch thought he is, what are they fighting for? Butch can make as much money or more, and less headache if this is the real Phil. Even with all of that, Butch doesn't break the code to give up Phil's location.
I’m in the Butch camp. He planned it out to remove Phil become the boss by using war with jersey. Phil and Tony took the fall leaving Butch as boss NY and knocking down Jersey before Soprano crew became bigger threat than the red headed stepchild it always was. Butch was a smart powerful NY crime boss.
Phil wanted to act like he was a Sicilian King.....instead of being a LEADER. Then he has the nerve to threaten Butch....even though he didn't do shit to help him. Phil started a war and then insulated himself from that war and wanted to take all the credit for the Great RISKS that Butchie and his men took!
I had the same issue with Butchie's betrayal but came to a similar conclusion. I remembered him freezing his ass off at the sitdown and just generally being annoyed with the interruption of business and Phil's rigidity. Continued speculation over how a hit on Tony might've come together -- and who, "friend" or foe, was involved -- is Chase's parting gift to his audience. It's also true to life, with conspiracy theories on everyone from Caesar to Napoleon (alleged), JFK to 2Pac & Biggie.
Butch just got fed up with dealing with the "new" Phil who was overcompensating for how he perceived his own past for compromising too many times. Unfortunately, compromise is necessary in negotiation sometimes and it definitely is as a mafia boss. Butch didn't like the way Phil was treating him all of a sudden and the attitude he was taking suddenly about everything especially when he was doing his best to locate Tony. Butch didn't like Tony but he knew Phil had gone way too far in trying to decimate the whole North Jersey family. He was not being realistic or pragmatic in any way and it was affecting business and the war with North Jersey didn't need to happen. Butch could also potentially become the boss if Phil was eliminated and he was as greedy as the next guy.
I came for the comments & was not disappointed!! It also didn’t help when Phil says to Butchy in the end of the phone call, “Hey kid, when this is all over we’re gonna sit down, just me & you” & then poceeded to hang up on him. Love your videos good shit brotha 🫡
Let's be honest he was running the family through Phil and when he could no longer control Phil and realised his going to war with Tony was a bad idea he put it all on Phil and probably ended up killing Tony too.
Butchie had Tony killed. There is another Sopranos TH-camr whose theory is that AJ's girlfriend Rhianna let NY know where Tony would be having dinner that night. She overhears Tony and Carmella making plans while she is hanging out with AJ at the house. There is an episode where Butchie is meeting with his guys in a beauty salon and there are big modelling pictures of Rhianna on the wall in the salon. She was a club chick party girl so she probably knew a lot of these guys already and was probably put up to it for some reason. I wish I could remember the name of the video but its a pretty solid theory.
@@travismiles5885 Totally agree the girl gave up the location, literally no other reason for her to be put in the show when u think about it. I disagree tho with the post above this one. Phil was rulinrg with an iron fist, he wasn't being manipulated by butchie.
I Mean That could Stake out satriale's pork store/Tony Mini Mansion(Phil Visited B4 so Knows Exact Location),Or wait till see Target 🎯 like Tony,Bobby,Silvio Together than decimate the Leadership Do Business with what is left over.
![ทุกครั้งที่หลับตา (Lucid Dream) - AYLA's [ Official MV ]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/4i1OBAQyv58/mqdefault.jpg)
![[#2024MAMA] BIGBANG (빅뱅) - 뱅뱅뱅 (BANG BANG BANG) + FANTASTIC BABY | Mnet 241123 방송](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/EQsYfiPR9uM/mqdefault.jpg)
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Edit @ 1:47 - hospital not prison
Shut up
Can you make a video about the origins of wille ciici
Did you used to go by Collative Learning?
I think that Coco's insults against Medow Soprano were the cause he turned Phil Lettardo.
Butch understands that members must not insult the families of other bosses. That is why Butch turned on on Phil.
If Phil would just have made it clear to anyone, how many years he’s served, that whole thing would have played out completely differently.
But Phil was very clear abou-...oh, I see what you’re saying...I think he may have compromised once or twice, too.
20
Also should’ve mentioned his living conditions in the can like what he had to eat
let me tell you a couple of tree tings
@@nickmichaelson5553 No more Butchie, no more!
Butch kept an eye on both Phil and Tony at all times
Lolz
I can't even say your name
If Borko sees you...
🤣😂
Underrated comment
That Chinatown scene is one of my favorite scenes in the whole series. I love what they did with the tour bus rolling by and that line about “New York’s famous little Italy” once being so massive, now just reduced to a square block. It’s the perfect analogy for the mob in the early 2000’s when this was filmed. And Butch looks up and he’s lost, cold and confused… wondering how he got here. It’s just such a great scene.
Yes!
@KidBatersFather yes
I didnt even recognize this analogy to Mafia when I watched the scene......
I went to New York in 2007 and that same lady was the host on the tour bus I took thru New York
@@gcage7508 really? That’s pretty cool. She has a great tour guide voice
Remember the scene where Butch was walking in Chinatown while talking to Phil on the phone? The conversation was about the war with Jersey, and how it wasn't going well. Phil seemed unhappy with Butch too. When Butch hung up the phone he looked around and realized he had been walking in the wrong direction. This is symbolic of how the NY mob has been led astray. I believe this is what motivated Butch to make a deal with Tony to end the war. With Phil out of the picture, he wouldn't have to deal with his soured attitude, and Butch would be the de facto leader of the NY family. However, Butch said Jersey had "redundant upper management" and I think he always believed that. He pushed for war because he wanted to fold the jersey mob into NY, and when he saw that Phil wasn't really doing a good job as a leader, he figured he could let Tony kill Phil, then he would kill Tony, and absorb the whole fuckin thing. I believe that's what actually happened.
I believe it too. Chase tries so hard to be coy and never admit it but he never denied it either. I think Butch warmed up to Paulie and Patsy and once Meadow learned from her new husband-to-be that her dad had Patsy's twin brother and Patrick's uncle murdered, she too would be wary of her dad. It seems that Patsy probably became boss and Paulie was either Consigliere or underboss. We know Paulie didn't want to be boss anymore at this point so I doubt he became boss but I absolutely believe NOBODY had reason to keep Tony alive. Even Little Carmine probably signed off on it because he didn't want to have to keep AJ employed in his strumpet series movie company.
I think you are right, except my theory is that Carmine Jr. would be the boss with Butch as underboss. When Carmine Jr. backed out of a war with Leotardo he said this wasn't the way to do it. Then in the sit down with Leotardo and Tony he brought up Leotardo's brother. He was basically saying there's no point in fighting with Leotardo because that will destroy everything. He baited Leotardo into a fight with Tony to remove the upper management, which Butch agreed with. Carmine Jr. is like his father - not what he seems.
@@Dman3827 yes
Decapitate and do business with whatever’s left.
I was there & you’re correct
When Phil cried like a Puerto Rican hoowah in the hospital, my estimation of him as a man just f*ckin’ plummeted.
Lmfaooooo 😂🤣
They all "bitch out," even when they level up. The men of "The Sopranos" are some of the most emotional creatures on earth. Tony's advantage with Melfi is that he can cycle through all of his emotions with a stranger and then put the mask back on.
🤣🤣🤣🤣
😂😂💀
In addition to the fact that the Medigans changed their named from Leonardo on Ellis Island.
The reason he turned on Phil was the phone call where Phil says "When this is over we're going to sit down." When Butch said "I hope so." Phil acted like he couldn't hear him and hung up. Butch knew what Phil really meant by that and knew it was either him or Phil. Plus Butch would end the war and become boss so he really had nothing to lose.
He also called him "kid" there. Which, we know is something that Phil can use as a dismissive term. Tony had gotten really pissed at Phil calling him that once. Butch might have heard that and assumed some even more hostility than Phil was outwardly showing.
Bingo!
Absolutely
He would probably switch to being Little Carmine's underboss. Basically Phil had become absent in hiding when he animorphed into a house, and Butchie was de facto boss already.
Nope. The whole point of the phone call was BUTCH trying to convince Phil NOT to kill Tony ........ when in the previous episode, BUTCH told Phil to KILL Tony and Phil said 'kill a boss... i won't do it' - Just terrible lazy writing
Butch was a great actor. He did an incredible job as Johnny Torrio in Boardwalk Empire
Yeaa he was. And the joke Stephen Graham’s Al Capone made about Johnny Torrio, “..I’m sorry kid I got this thing with my neck..”, was funny AF lol
@@reservoirdayak3923 🤣🤣🤣 Stephen Graham bodied that role man. I picture Capone being EXACTLY like that
@@DizzyDaDon “so you like ya make jokes”
“I like to laugh”
“ O ya do do ya”
I’m in the middle of a meeting!!!
@@DizzyDaDon The part where killed his own henchman with the empire state building replica was brutal.
Totally wrong!!!! Butch got Tony's high school records and he discovered that Tony DID in fact have the makings of Varsity athlete. After that the choice was a no-brainer.
AND he found out Tony has an IQ of 136; it’s been tested.
You win sit
Quasimodo predicted all this
@@dabshanksthe1st488lol😂
Correction, the soft drink of choice was a no brainer
“A pint of blood costs more than a gallon of gold”
Carmine Lupartazzi Jr., aka Little Carmine
It's worth more. Gold actually does cost more
@@matthewJ142Not according to Little Carmine
Very observant, sacred and propane
The sacred and the propane
“Dons don’t wear shorts “ Carmine Lupertazzi Sr.
Like Tony told Chris " You need to be around to keep your finger on the pulse".
Phil started a war and disappeared and left his 2 and 3 to deal with it. They struck Tony hard and they knew full well he wasn't just going to lay down. Payback was coming and they thought it would be one of them. Tony could of easily went into hiding on his own. He didn't, he stayed with his crew and kept his finger on the pulse
Butch secretly wanted those Makita drills.
We don't want your fuckin' drills!
😂😂😂😂😂😂😂
Those drills belong to my father in law Al! They came in, in the middle of the night and robbed the guy.
@@brettbaratheon9776 His Acid Reflux....Whatever happened there..
😂
After Phil told Butch “I’ll deal with you later”, Butch knew it was either kill or be killed.
Pretty simple.
I don't think he said that, I think he said "after this is over, me and you gotta sit down" and he replied "I hope so".
I edited my original comment. I was only just watching it when I saw your comment and didn't realise the video has mentioned the China town bit
@@mistersonnen848
It was implied tho. Butch wasn't stupid. Plus Phil went and hid and left everything on Butch's shoulders. A boss should take the reins, not run and hide.
@@coldhands2802 it wasn't implied at all. It seemed like Phil was reminding Butch that "we will sit down" as in they will discuss his loyalty and good work and make sure he is promoted, rewarded, etc.
@@flightofthebumblebee9529 and once butch says I hope so Phil acts dumb and hangs up on him, Phil was upset that they couldn’t kill tony and he was gonna kill butch for his failure
@@x.x208no it was about promotion
The obvious reason is he thought Tony would take out Phil, he would become boss of NY and take out Tony. He could either take over what was left of Jersey or install puppets like Paulie or Patsy to run Jersey and answer to him. It was a win/win for Butch. That is the outcome many feel actually happened.
Butch always got one eye on da streets
Not just me then.
@@Ultrajamz and the other on the sidewalks
And there’s this other video that points out excellently how it was A.J.’s girlfriend who was the mole that let it be known that Tony would be at Holstens with his family after Carmella tells A.J. that they were having dinner there, pointing out how she didn’t seem depressed at all in all of her scenes and how she was always condescending to Tony and Carmela’s interactions and that her poster was up on the wall in the New York meeting where Butch and Albie were plotting on who to kill in the N.J. ranks. It was very well narrated.
@@MarkCampbellTV ni€€a what!?
I think this was the most accurate display of real mafia treachery in the show, Butchie was biding his time and using Phil to get rid of any potential problems in NJ so he could take his spot later on. I feel like there are countless examples of this is known true crime mob stories, especially in the Philly wars.
In light of recent humiliations, it's an honor to be joined by men for this CinerRanter upload.
I'm only here outta respect to my fawtha.
Aye I’m here for the gabagool
AND NOT COCK SUCKERS THAT MARRIED MY COUSIN
Take it easy, Shiv, you know the wine makes you emotional
You don't ever admit the existence of this thing!
The feelings i got watching Phil in those final episodes was chilling. You no longer wondered about the end, you knew. Even if he did not directly play a role in Tony’s end, he destroyed the family pretty much, leaving T vulnerable. I had the same reaction to the bikers in the final season of Breaking Bad. Horrifying for what u saw coming.
I always thought he was sick of being unable to earn because of the war.
Exactly.
That’s literally all it was was - congrats - you’ve just made this whole video analysis completely pointless
@@samarnold2893 Yeah, I dare say Butch's motives were pretty obvious to most of us. The rest of the theories were kind of an overreach.
@@LeviAckerman-cb5ji I think he was also motivated by wanting the big seat himself.
He was also tired of Phil being a prick all the time
Butchie wanted the big chair, but not for naked ambition. Butch came up under Carmine. He knew that Phil, vengeful and emotional as he was - could never bring the stability he craved. He also knew Tony as a hothead, with the CoCo’s curbstomp fresh in his memory. Butchie knew that both bosses had to go for any lasting peace. I think he took this idea to Paulie and Patsy, and they heard him out, agreeing to deliver Tony in exchange for Phil. Pretty simple, and plenty of evidence.
True that. My hunch here is that Joey LaRocca killed Tony Soprano. Joey was the illegitimate son of Big Pussy but he realizes that he wants out of the mafia life and he acts like the trigger to Tony’s demise. He had to use a double to avoid the attention because if he saw Tony in the diner, Tony would know that he would be already being set up. He needed a fall guy to appear paranoid. But not from somebody they know.
@@CevicheGato no the killer was the hit man with the memebers only jacket
Little Carmine tells Tony a story about a French finance minister building a huge mansion, outshining the king, and being punished in the end for his ambition. Paulie says something similar: "it's like Sun Tzu says: a good leader is benevolent and unconcerned with fame." Both scenes are played for laughs with horrible mispronunciations, but if you take them seriously, Little Carmine and Paulie are saying the same thing. If you want to survive, lay low and don't be too greedy. Finally, Patsy Parisi says "It won't be cinematic..." when he threatens Gloria. Which is a badass thing to say to intimidate someone. But if we take it seriously, he's saying that there's not going to be a dramatic ending when he plans to kill someone.
Butchie’s eye straightened out. Both families were on lockdown. Nothing was happening and you Can’t pause that money for too long.
"Butchie's eye straightened out" - I'm really laughing my ass off
The Lupertazzis were not willing to go back to war with New Jersey over the way Phil was killed. In fact, it was actually necessary for Phil to get popped in front of his wife since she was the one controlling Phil anyway. There was a scene in season 6 where his wife was telling him what needs to be done about Vito as Phil lay on the bed silent with no pants on. They couldn't have made it more obvious that his wife wears the pants in the family, not Phil. They literally shot a scene where Phil didn't have any pants on to illustrate this.
Next, the Lupertazzis had already given Tony permission to whack Phil. How he does it is of no concern to them. Keep in mind this is the same crime family who's clout has been greatly diminished in recent years by the massive federal indictments Jimmy Petrile's cooperation led to, and the same crime family who's been locked in an endless cycle of bloodshed ever since Carmine Sr. died. They're depleted by now. Furthermore, while it was never stated outright, the past two years would've seen the Lupertazzi family's power in New York wane considerably as a result of the other Five Families creeping in to chisel away at the traditional territories and rackets in the power vacuum the indictments and civil wars created.
Lastly, *I will NEVER believe Butch assumed the role of boss after this war.* I will never agree to this when you could see the sheer misery that was written across Little Carmine's face during the sit-down. His defeated, exasperated demeanor suggests he was also taking the L here by doing the one thing it took him several months to realize he didn't want for himself after all- becoming boss of the family (allusion to the conversation he had with Tony earlier in season 6 about his dream of Carmine Sr. wearing the paper crown and being disappointed his son was pursuing becoming a mob boss instead of a family man capable of experiencing genuine fulfillment in his life). Butch also looked to Carmine before answering a couple of times during the sitdown too, which further hints that Carmine was actually the one in charge now- no matter how much it depressed him.
Also, based on the news segments the mobsters all watched in Season 5 where Feech, Angelo, Tony B, and Phil were released from prison, and the civil war their returns ignited within the Lupertazzi family, Little Carmine was likely the only candidate the captains and soldiers on the street would accept at this point. The entire Brooklyn faction was disgusted with Johnny Sac, Phil Leotardo, Doc Santoro, and the others' endless fight for the rapidly shrinking profits and prestige that Carmine Sr.'s death spurred.
Frank Vincent was such a great character actor, what a great addition to the cast.
RIP Frank😢
He stole every scene he was in
@@DrJ-hx7wv he really did
While he had a small part, he was great in Goodfellas as "Billy Batts" as well as his role as Frank Marino in Casino.
While I couldn't locate any information why William Bentvena was called "Billy Batts", the irony is Frank Marino beat the living shit out of Nicky with a baseball bat before being buried alive in the desert with his brother. And what's truly revolting and horrific about the entire gangster culture is nobody is anyone's friend. There was never any resentment between Frank and Nicky and Frank even lied to Remo Gaggi vouching for Nicky when asked about him screwing around with Ginger, but as soon as he's told to get rid of him he rather enjoys the task of killing Nicky ...truly sociopathic.
Are you taking about the sha of Iran 😆
@@ronfriedman8740 Except it was all Hollywood fantasy. The guy Frank was based on turned rat 5 years before Tony Spilotro (nicky santoro) got killed. And hr wasn't beat with a bat in a cornfield, they were beaten with fists & kicks & strangled with a rope in an IL basement then driven to IN & buried while Frank was in witsec.
I think Butchie's scene at the phone had an ethnic and cultural component too. In the first season they were talking about the "Albanians living in our houses" if they went into their bunkers facing indictments. Butchie was seeing another culture moving in and thriving while they engaged in petty wars, killing themselves off, like little Italy was killed off.
Outstanding comment.
Also in the scene he is walking in little Italy talking to Phil. By the end he is in China town and doesn’t know where he is anymore.
@@DLHarv they make it pretty obvious it used to be part of little italy.
@@DLHarv he’s not suddenly “in Chinatown”, what used to be little italy IS Chinatown now. He both doesn’t know where he is anymore because it is so different, while at the same time recognizing this is his home where he grew up his whole life.
@@Pantsinabucket you didn’t disprove anything the other guy said or really add any new information either it seems like you just wanted to sound smart and make someone else look dumb by saying nothing of substance
So nonchalantly "that animal Blundetto" I lost it when I heard that HAHAHAHAHAHAHA
I read this comment right when it was said
There was an explanation for the start of the war. Phil still held a grudge that Tony didn't turn over Blundetto. Not to mention that when Phil was a captain Tony ran him off the road and completely disrespected him. In the real mob guys kill guys over simply laying hands on them, imagine if you ran a button man off the road then choked him all while disrespecting him to other mobsters. The Decalvacante Family could never go against the Gambino's as a lot of guys ended up in Jersey because they couldn't get made in New York. Just like Hesh said he turned to guys like Tony for protection, Tony Turned to New York for the same. Tony broke a lot of rules and the only amazing thing is that war was declared instead of a hit on Tony.
What is so difficult to understand? Phil was going to take care of Butchie, he told him, we are going to sit down and talk and then hung up on him. Butchie knew right there, Phil was going to kill him.
I always get that vibe every time I watch that scene
Yup. That was the line that turned him, or was the last straw a heavy last straw.
You got it. Phil was angry and said, ''After this Butchie, you and me are gonna sit down.'' Butchie knew that ''sit down'' would be his last. It's obvious. Then Phil hung up on him. What an asshole. Butchie was a MAJOR asset to the NY family.
He also realized Phil had a perpetual prison mentality. He wasn’t going to be a good leader.
No you misunderstood, he'd never threaten him like that. He was implying a reward for finishing things off.
One of my favorite scenes in the whole series:
Phil gets shot at the gas station, falls down and his car rolls over his head.
The guy standing in the parking lot watching immediately vomits.
That's comedy gold! Absolute cartoon slapstick timing.
The first time I re-watched the series after it originally aired, realized that there are many comic moments.
The overall message from the writers: These are deeply stupid people.
Yes. I always saw this as a sendup of mafioso types. More taking the piss than paying tribute.
, aw
I'm sure somebody screams OH SHIT as well, the whole scene is comedy gold
Bottomless stupidity.
Don’t forget Phil’s brother… whatever happened there
@Father Strength I just saw that episode again. I can now see how Carmine played Tony and Phil against each other beautifully.
WHATEVER HAPPENED THERE??!!!!
@@al1665 lol little carmine was the real G
@@al1665 yep
Butch gave Carmine Jr. a look at that meeting...a look that said "what say you boss?"
Butch would make the perfect mob boss imo. He's best suited, out of everyone else, to have his sights on NY and NJ simultaneously.
I wish they did more with the “I agree in spirit, but I gotta council” guy
What about that Toblerone Bar it should have appeared in every season.
That line sticks with me for some reason, I use it often
He has another great line….”And you used to sell laser printers, out tha back of ya Crown Vic”
Hahahaha
He has a name - Albert "Albie" Cinaflone. He was Phil's consigliere and may now be Butchie's also. He was the only guy who could question Phil under the guise of counseling. Great character! I agree! Wish he played a bigger part.
probably the most true-to-real life portrayal of a aging mafioso ever. exceedingly plain, big old man glasses, but exceptionally cunning and violent.
One important factor not mentioned was who else was at the final sit-down from New York? Carmine Jr. It is also possible that while Butchie felt abandoned by Phil to fight the war that he met with Carmine Jr for advice since he and Tony have always been linked as friends. It is very possible that it was Carmine Jr that wanted his father's seat and HE played the long game and waited for the last two bosses to go before succeeding power. If you recall the final sit-down when Tony asks for a 'twenty on Phil' how does Butchie respond? He looks at Carmine Jr first who gives him the approval to not get in the way of the Jersey crew to do what they got to do. So Butchie looked sub servant to Carmine Jr so we might see that as evidence of who was really calling the shots for New York.
Even if carmine wasnt the boss, anyone who was deferred to him somewhat.
Correct. Carmine Jr had everyone under his subspecies.
Your comment is very allegorical
If there's one thing my father taught me, it's this: A pint of blood costs more than a gallon of gold.
Butch found himself at the precipice of a giant crossroad.
When Phil turned into a house, I always knew he'd have the makings of a varsity magician. It's a shame he couldn't escape the lifestyle though...
Every time I watch that scene and scan and scan for him in the windows. All this time I was looking at him and not even knowing it. Since Butch was inside the house, does that mean they are gay, or….am I overthinking things?
He turned into a house, the shah of Iran, Carnac the great. Phil was a shape shifter
😂😂😂😂
Don't forget that Walter White turned into a glass of whiskey. It's a rare ability and a tremendous asset among the criminal class.
"Take that piece of 💩 and get off my stoop!" 😂
I always assumed that Butchie was playing a long game to become boss. He was never "in line", so he needed to work through all the people that were in line, in order to get his shot at being boss, his ultimate goal. He pushed Phil to go to war, because he needed Tony to take Phil out, so Butchie could take the reigns. This explains his sudden about face, and after having watched the show front to back about 6 times now, I've never seen anything that changes my mind about this.
As far as the question of who whacked Tony, this has never been an issue for me. I've always just assumed it was part of the machinations set in motion by Phil, and for whatever reason, the person who killed Tony didn't get the message that the war was over in time, the ultimate example of the "bad luck" Tony was always complaining about.
I think butchie still maintained the plan of killing tony then doing business with whoever's left that him and Phil had- just without Phil. Install Paulie or someone as a puppet and basically run NY and NJ
Agreed except I think Butchie had tony whacked not that it was bad luck. Tony killed a boss in a very public way that doesn't go unanswered
Coco revenge
Good point at the trenches thing. Makes more sense. Another thing is Butch wanted a swift victory by aiming at the snakes head and get back on business as usual while Phil wanted a war to the last man thus attracting the feds and any attention from the feds is bad for business. Phil's motivation for war is personal, Butch is just strictly business.
It's funny you mention snakes. The interesting thing about snakes is that they reproduce spontaneously
Nailed it. Butch was impatient and confused after the hit on Tony failed. He's looking for an exit strategy from Phil. Phil gives him some bullshit and a promise of an up in the future. Butch tries to press him on it, but Phil irritably shakes his head and hangs up on him. In Mafia terms, "he's not listening". Meanwhile everybody else in the Lupertazzi family is on the mattresses while the Albanians move into their houses... it had to end.
Phil critized butch for not taking out Tony and sil.right away
Phil not being a "easy person to get along with" very much a understatement 🤣
Carmine Jr and Butch turned against Phil , killed Tony and ended up doing business with Pauli and Patsy . This is the best explanation so far
No it isn't, Paulie and Patsy didn't take over, Phil's nephew "Billy" killed Tony. He wasnt even in the mob.
@@seansmith7462 link to this theory?
@@jamesmartini4332 google it yourself like how I did
@@seansmith7462
A little help would be good, you can find any theory from a google search, try "was tony soprano a space alien" and you will get stories about Tony being Jabba the hut
@@charles-y2z6c In the end, he was shaped like Jabba so it's not impossible.
Missed the fact when Butchie rings Phil in the Chinatown scene, he has a guy with him. When it turns out that Phil is not going to meet Butchi in person, Butchie signals to the guy that he's not needed. Butchie was expecting Phil to be in the neighborhood and had a guy ready to whack him
Butch knew anybody that could turn into a house would eventually be a threat
😂😂
I love how many show quotes and memes you can sneak into your narration 😂
Excellent run down of the Butch’s mindset and the dynamics between NY and NJ.
I think butchie had everything planned out. In the scene where they were in the hair salon with him and albie, there’s a picture of a young girl/model on the wall, this the same girl who randomly shows up at AJs mental hospital and then starts hanging with him when the war starts, she’s there in the safe house when Carm & Tony say they’re going to halstons diner (where Tony is ultimately killed) the girl has some kinda connection to butchie is my point. With Phil dead and Tony dead he was in the clear to lead nyc as the new boss.
You can't really see it's the same girl. This theory is one of dumbest there is... Tony was already back at his house when the family met at Holstein's, his whereabouts where known to everyone at that point, he wasn't hiding anymore, anyone could've followed him. Mobsters using a 16 year old girl as a undercover informant, jesus fucking christ 😂😂
Phil was bad for business. Carmine clearly pulled the strings better without the title. Butchie answered to carmine in the end and it was clearly a way better deal than Phil’s emotional fits of street violence
He got tired of hearing about Phil's 20 years in the pin.
What are you talking about you couldn't hear a peep
Phil was out of shineboxes. Ain't nobody gonna compromise for another 20 years.
Gravy's good tonight
All I know is Phil never had the makings of a varsity athlete.
At the end of the "freezing" telephone call, an angry Phil says to Butchie "after all this, we should sit down" giving the impression that Butchie could be facing a telling off, demotion or perhaps worse...
I have been searching trought the internet for years expecting to hear this theory about the conection of Butch with the murder of Tony, and I think it combine perfectly with the Paulie-Patsy theory: Butch betrayed Phil and Paulie betrayed Tony, both families moved on from this with new bosses and renewed alliances...Gretting from Brazil and thanks for the explanation, you won a subscriber today!
Who would run Jersey after that?
@@matholomewbrooksopoulos7085 Patsy. His son was engaged to Meadow. He would have known in advance that the Sopranos were having dinner at the diner. Probably still hated Tony for having his twin brother killed.
@@lordsmoke317 i don't think Patsy was strong enough to be boss
@@matholomewbrooksopoulos7085 We never got to see Patsy’s true demeanor. I think he was stronger than we give credit. He showed his cold hearted nature when he intimidated Tony’s side piece at the car dealership. He was brazen enough to almost whack Tony & pissed in his pool. Was sharp enough to survive the hit that got Silvio. Then at the last dinner with Tony, it was clear he was the head of his own personal family and didn’t have a controlling wife like Carm. Plus New York would want a NJ boss that would be more controllable. Patsy Parisi forwarded the info to NY of Tony’s dinner location in exchange for becoming the next boss of Jersey.
@@matholomewbrooksopoulos7085 actually, I think that Paulie would become boss, if you remember well, at the final meet with NY, representing NJ were Tony and Paulie, underlining that Paulie was number 2 already, with Silvio and Bobby out...Also, Paulie was an old-school gangster that was to be respected/feared in NJ, I guess Paulie would become boss and Patsy would become captain or consiglieri...Butchy may have thought that these changes would have the jersey family weakened and that would be good for New York, they could have a bigger piece of the pie, as Tony had always made it hard for NY to earn that extra in the construction business ...
Butchy was so well casted, tiny, cross eyed and menacing. Give that casting person a Ham
Those MAnson lamps
One thing about Phil. Its not all talk wit him.
Kind of crazy just how many bosses NY had after Carmine died. Never understood why they’d nominate Gerry Torciano but from a writers perspective it makes sense because that shit happens in real life.
"If there's one thing my father taught me, it's this: A pint of blood costs more than a gallon of gold."
Even more so but until it is it'll be hard to verify that it is more expensive
Thanks, very allegorical Carmine Jr.
This is the kind of talk that causes dysentery in the family
Butchie hated Tony. He went to the sit down because Phil’s dissatisfaction with the fact Butchie left Tony alive put Butchie’s position in jeopardy, perhaps even his life. Brilliant move, agree to a truce, let Tony kill Phil then put a hit out on Tony. He’s left in charge and the “number” for Bobby’s life is out the window. Paulie and Patsy are not strong leaders and will be easy to deal with. I actually liked Butch’s character, reminds me of a friend of mine.
A shitty friend, I gather
Yes precisely!!! He played everyone. This is my headcanon
Phil was costing them more than a gallon of gold, so they took his pint of blood
I think the whole thing boiled down to the fact that his car seat was askew
Maybe Patsy showed up in the back of his car one night and told him that it won't be cinematic.
How could Patsy sit in the back seat when it's askew?
@@normie2716 he felt like he was sitting at 12 o clock tho
Phil didn't want his nipples scraped off the fine leather seats
I always felt Butch turned on Phil after their phone conversation in Chinatown when Phil expressed his displeasure with Butch's actions. I think at the end of the phone call when Phil said they were gonna have to have a sit-down about it when everything was over, Phil was planning on having Butch whacked and Butch realized this, so he gave Tony the ok to take out Phil to save his own skin.
Butchie got two bosses killed*. Fucking incredible.
*think about it
Butch’s crooked eye allowed him to keep his eyes on both bosses, turning his shortcoming into a strength .
@@rsmith7994 eyes rolling round like stevie wonder
maybe more... you can't prove he never poisoned Carmine's Egg Salad and injected Jackie Aprille and Johnny Sack with cancer
"5 families in New York and then we got this pygmy thing in New Jersey" and the camera settles on 4'11" Butchie looking really uncomfortable.
Leaving the ending scene open to interruption (death or arrest) for Tony in the diner, one can assume Butch allowed Phil to be whacked so Butch wouldn't have to deal with the consequences from NY, could have also had Tony whacked since that's what he wanted anyways. Two birds with one stone so to speak. Thus, that leaves Butch as Boss and Tony out of the way, Butch had no one standing in his way. Just my own opinion
Exactly. Phil was pissed at Butch and was going to kill him after this was over. He made his move first.
The last phone call between Butch and Phil is the key I think. Phil makes it clear that Butchs’ days are numbered by saying that they are going to “ talk” soon. Butch new it was kill..or be killed.
Poor Billy was just a kid, barely out of nappies.
Yup! Just turning 40 is like a kid to 66 year old Phil.
Butch was waiting for Carmine. But then he learned that Carmine was gone, he left. Happens all the time.
Butch saw little Italy was pretty much gone as he walked talking to phil on the phone... I bet butch was behind tony getting hit on the last Episode people forget Tony pointed a gun at Butch ...When he got Coco
I always said that. Butch got Tony hit. Remember he hated Tony
Byron Johnson Yes he did And went Tony put his guard down... The dude in the members only jacket got him...What’s even crazier that dude appears in an earlier episode in the bar in Brooklyn
@@WarTheory Really? When was that?
Rob in one of the earlier seasons that dude had to leave the bar when Tony walked in with Chris and Sil I believe...Now I’m gonna have to rewatch everything just to put up the episode
Tony was never wacked
I’m glad Butch was able to see eye to eye with Tony in the end.
Another youtuber suggested that the model/young woman hanging around with Tony's son was the NY families' spy on Tony Soprano and is the only one who could have provided the location and time when Tony would be at the diner. Her picture appears in the office of one of the NY families a couple of episodes before the last episode and she conveniently showed up in AJ's life just as things were heating up between the two sides. As for who gave the orders on Tony's hit, I think that was set in motion by Phil before his death but Butch just followed through on it once his spy, AJ's model friend, gave them a time and location where Tony would be vulnerable.
3:03 edgiest Ford commercial ever.
Butchie triple crossing the bosses of NY and NJ respectively to control both NY and NJ makes perfect sense. He's a surprise. You never see him coming. He represents quiet earnest unfaltering overambition, that is rarely rash or foolish, that is content to wait and bide its time. Seeing all the angles, assesses all the angles and methodically proceeding to manip/control all those angles and achieving the desired outcome. He puts up the front of a loyal soldier/lieutenant and Lupertazzi family fanatic, all the while coveting the top stop for himself. Probably the most interesting character on the show and one the audience knew least about, he's a peripheral character and shadowy. We get the sense he's been around a long time (he's an older cat) and paid his dues but he blends in, he doesn't stand out, being cockeyed makes him at once seem less threatening and yet somehow menacing. You really don't notice him which makes his treachery all the more compelling. He's cunning and wily, springing from the shadows like some feral animal or monster or gollum.
Butchie could certainly see all angles, in widescreen…. I wonder if that is why they cast that specific actor.
I always thought it was the phone conversation. Remember when Phil says “We’re gonna have a chat when this is over kid” implying a bump or two in which Butch says “I hope so” then, Phil pretends that the line was bad and hangs up. Phil didn’t want to be screwed down on a role for Butch and Butch realised this. It was quite obvious
Butch always gave me puppeteer vibes, secretly running the show behind curtains just like Tony
The phrase “we’ll talk about this when I get back” and Rusty being in Chinatown when the conversation end….it’s right there
“Listen kid when you get back we are having a sit down you and me,
“ I hope so”
“ I can’t hear you, your breaking up”
“ I SAID I hope” hangs up
Eyes in different directions
Yes, that has alot to do with it,weather butch had a plan before this ti see Phil and Tony go idk,but after the phone call you just referenced, butch saw the writing on the wall,he decided phil would ultimately be an enemy, and then he bid his time till he could get Tony
Nice video. I agree The Sopranos sometimes seems to rush some important plots, while others brew for a long time and are easier to understand, but on re-watching, you do usually find more is said that you might have originally noticed, usually just too subtly to realise on the first viewing. The scene walking through Little Italy and ending up in China Town is a good example.
Let me tell ya a couple of three things, Phil was a grilled cheese filled, tissue soiling dinosaur, who did 20 years in the can btw. He didn't know how the streets had changed. Butchie had his finger on the pulse
@Mitch Qumstein A come from behind kinda guy if you will.
Butchie had his finger on the pulse, one eye on the moon and the other on the daisies.
My estimation of him as a man fucking plummeted when he went into hiding, even though he was boss of one of the 5 families.
I'm surprised you didn't consider the possibility that Butch was playing the Starscream role and helping position Phil as the bad guy. All the aggressive advice he gave to Phil was in person... on the phone and in sit downs with other folks, though, he was portraying the role of someone who didn't want war. He knew Phil didn't have the temperament to really last as the boss, and there was so much churn in that position already, what's one more? HE ALWAYS PLANNED TO BECOME BOSS. He USED Phil! He gets Phil out of the way and he's the boss of that operation and has a good relationship with Tony, who doesn't know his role in setting off the war. Heck, he probably arranged the hit on Tony in front of his family because, as an old school guy, he would've resented the way Phil got clipped in front of his wife and grandkids (there were a couple of people in Tony's organization he could have gone through to help him set it up at that point). At the end of the day, he's the last man standing in the highest position. Maybe he can work through Paulie to shore up the DiMeo operation, maybe he has him clipped too... who knows? He's a ruthless SOB.
Come to think about that now, I have a different theory, butch didn't exactly based Tonys hit exactly on that but over tonys brazenly bashing Carl's shwarbs teeth in front of butch in that restaurant.
That was disrespect to him who saw the whole thing and overall new York crew.
Take note that it was butch who really floated around the idea of just outrightly liquidating the jersey mob altogether. This was when john and all the top guys were gone, Phil was supreme head.
@@goodwinter6017 Yep that makes sense too. Either way Butch had "old school guy" reasons why he'd "break the rules" and clip Tony in front of his folks, and either way it really does seem like he slickly positioned himself to take over. He's like the ANTI-Tony in that regard. It would be interesting watching a series with HIM as the protagonist
Great thoughts about Butch and how that went down. Personally, I have always thought Phil was going to wack Butch. When they are on the phone and Butch is in the freezing cold, Phil says that when this is all over, he wants to have a sit down with Butch. I have always thought that Phil would have killed Butch at that sit-down. Butch agrees to this saying he wants a sit-down, too, but I think he would later realize that Phil would have taken him out because the hit on the Sopranos wasn't going as quickly as Phil wanted it.
I thought it was pretty obvious. Butch was masterminding everything behind the scenes and lined up everything for Phil and Tony to go after each other.
Looking forward to the video on the Paulie/Patsy angle. IMO something had to have been worked out with the hit on Tony, otherwise it would have been seen as a betrayal of the peace settlement that could reignite the war. Patsy would have been the one in the best position to know where Tony was going to be, since his son was close to Meadow, who was going to meet Tony at the diner. The hitman arrived, saw he had a clear shot at Tony without Meadow there, and took care of business.
Meadow could also have been in on the hit, with her parallel parking adventure being a ruse to allow the hitman time to do his job (KIDDING!).
Easiest theory thag no one talks about. He gave the nod to Tony to take him out so he would take out Tony and look like a hero and become boss in the same swing. Real life situation that’s what happens
I always thought Sil's demise was well written...Cause what's magical about his fate is the fact that he's probably going through what Tony went through when he was in a coma...and if he passes his test from the afterlife he will get out of his coma and change his life around if he CHOOSES too...Silvio always had a mind and intellect like a leader just like Tony he just wasn't the main protagonist, which is us to the audience to figure out that on our own which is cinematic brilliance...
Phil implied he would kill butch “we’re going to have a sit down after this is over.” Cell reception was bad but butch said he “hoped so.” But he told Tony war had gone to far and such.
No, no, no! Butch was saying he was hoping for the sit-down. Phil was suggesting to Butch that for all his hard work that when the family wins the war that Phil would reward Butch with bigger money deals and such. Phil wasn't threatening Butch. Wake up and watch again!
@@FreeOpenTruth Well it was late when I watched it.
Why do people keep saying that? Why the fuck would Butchie say "I hope so" if Phil was implying he was going to kill him? Wouldn't he then stand there with a suspicious look on his face, instead of a confused and forlorn one?
I feel like I lose braincells when some of you people give your theories. Butch explains to Tony exactly why he's through with Phil, and it's not because he's afraid of him.
"ah hope so" such a vicious comeback, des fois.
Because Al Capone already tried to take him out and he had to step down so when he thought he might get taken out again...exactly what phil said to him on the phone, he decided to act first. Hence why Phil was take out by Buth aka johnny torio.
"'Betray' implies you should have trusted me."
I will add that I think Tony busting up Coco actually worked in Tony's favor here. Butchie saw Tony was capable of decisive action and someone to be feared, respected, and potentially a good partner to have in Jersey, as was the case with Carmine Sr.
I think butch falls into that category Tony talks about how some people just wanna whack someone. Butch had bloodlust in him since day one.
I believe Butchie had Tony killed as well. Not only to get rid of Tony and can potentially consolidate the New Jersey crew since Paulie has no loyalty and Ally Boy's crew really wouldn't care who they were kicking up to. Don't forget that Tony had Coco's teeth smashed right in front of Butchie. Also, Tony pointed a gun at Butch. They don't let that kind of thing slide.
Why would Butch hit Tony after becoming boss? The hit on Phil was sanctioned by both sides at a neutral venue. Surely, agreements at a sitdown are sacrosanct. If you ever betray them, you show that you can not be negotiated with. Then you can't do business.
I think Butch's reasons are basically what he says. Phil is weaker than he thought, and not quite as devoted to the rules of the life as Butch thought, so he said 'screw it'.
If Phil isn't who Butch thought he is, what are they fighting for? Butch can make as much money or more, and less headache if this is the real Phil.
Even with all of that, Butch doesn't break the code to give up Phil's location.
butch always had the advantage because he could simultaneously have one eye on phil and the other on tony
Butchie, Pauline, & Patsy were all co-conspirators, is what I always believed. Thanks good stuff as always!
" That animal Blundetto " was not nearly as much of a sadistic psychopath as low forehead Leotardo himself.
I’m in the Butch camp. He planned it out to remove Phil become the boss by using war with jersey. Phil and Tony took the fall leaving Butch as boss NY and knocking down Jersey before Soprano crew became bigger threat than the red headed stepchild it always was.
Butch was a smart powerful NY crime boss.
Its all in there , Paul and patsy along w butch pulled a coupe.
Phil wanted to act like he was a Sicilian King.....instead of being a LEADER. Then he has the nerve to threaten Butch....even though he didn't do shit to help him. Phil started a war and then insulated himself from that war and wanted to take all the credit for the Great RISKS that Butchie and his men took!
I had the same issue with Butchie's betrayal but came to a similar conclusion. I remembered him freezing his ass off at the sitdown and just generally being annoyed with the interruption of business and Phil's rigidity. Continued speculation over how a hit on Tony might've come together -- and who, "friend" or foe, was involved -- is Chase's parting gift to his audience. It's also true to life, with conspiracy theories on everyone from Caesar to Napoleon (alleged), JFK to 2Pac & Biggie.
Great point
Butch just got fed up with dealing with the "new" Phil who was overcompensating for how he perceived his own past for compromising too many times. Unfortunately, compromise is necessary in negotiation sometimes and it definitely is as a mafia boss. Butch didn't like the way Phil was treating him all of a sudden and the attitude he was taking suddenly about everything especially when he was doing his best to locate Tony.
Butch didn't like Tony but he knew Phil had gone way too far in trying to decimate the whole North Jersey family. He was not being realistic or pragmatic in any way and it was affecting business and the war with North Jersey didn't need to happen.
Butch could also potentially become the boss if Phil was eliminated and he was as greedy as the next guy.
He betrayed Phil in reality, because he was tired of him talking about how many years he did in the can.
As well as that there were no scraps in his scrapbook!
Those eyebrows, I can’t stand him
I came for the comments & was not disappointed!!
It also didn’t help when Phil says to Butchy in the end of the phone call, “Hey kid, when this is all over we’re gonna sit down, just me & you” & then poceeded to hang up on him. Love your videos good shit brotha 🫡
Let's be honest he was running the family through Phil and when he could no longer control Phil and realised his going to war with Tony was a bad idea he put it all on Phil and probably ended up killing Tony too.
Butchie had Tony killed. There is another Sopranos TH-camr whose theory is that AJ's girlfriend Rhianna let NY know where Tony would be having dinner that night. She overhears Tony and Carmella making plans while she is hanging out with AJ at the house. There is an episode where Butchie is meeting with his guys in a beauty salon and there are big modelling pictures of Rhianna on the wall in the salon. She was a club chick party girl so she probably knew a lot of these guys already and was probably put up to it for some reason. I wish I could remember the name of the video but its a pretty solid theory.
@@travismiles5885 Totally agree the girl gave up the location, literally no other reason for her to be put in the show when u think about it.
I disagree tho with the post above this one. Phil was rulinrg with an iron fist, he wasn't being manipulated by butchie.
@@stevejones148 junior soprano was also ruling with an iron fist lol.
@@travismiles5885 That’s Mr. Rodney Pearson you’re speaking of.
Butch knows the strategies of war. He definitely read the 48 Laws.
Phil was betrayed because he was young and tall and tan and lovely.
1:12 wait Phil did time in prison I never knew he barley ever mentioned it
They were at a stalemate. They couldn't get to Tony and NJ couldn't get to Phil. Both families were losing money.
You mean a stagmire
Was it really that hard to find out where Tony was?
I Mean That could Stake out satriale's pork store/Tony Mini Mansion(Phil Visited B4 so Knows Exact Location),Or wait till see Target 🎯 like Tony,Bobby,Silvio Together than decimate the Leadership Do Business with what is left over.