I worked on the team at (Santa Monica-based and now defunct) Station X Studios that did all the cinematics for Vengeance. I was employed as general 3D artist / animator. Took the studio around three months, with the live action elements filmed on 35mm by a separate production house. Most of it was developed from a preliminary draft and the project was wrapped by mid 2000. The master was actually produced at broadcast quality. I never played the actual game until many years later. To be honest; can't say I enjoyed it that much. Entertaining retrospective nonetheless.
It’s a good jobber mech for its role, especially for the setting of this game as a guerrilla fighter. It is fantastic for hit and run tactics from its use of the jump jets allowing it to “poptart” over hills while giving a good stab at an opposing mech. Also like the way it looks… it’s endearing. It’s a watermelon with legs, what more could you ask!
Okay okay hold your horses about the opening cinematic. Personally i love old cinematics with RL actors, they had that unique vibe to them, cringy but fun. But that's an opinion. Where you are wrong is about the whole "3 random LRMs one shoting Sig2". First of all Sigma lance was recon lance in training, only Sig lead was experienced MechWarrior and their mentor. While Sigma2 beeing rookie panicked despite given orders. Second of all those were not LRMs but Arrows (or less likely Tbolts) which are artillery rockets that deal AC/20 damage at hit location and 10 damage splash, meaning poor Shadow Cats LT armor evaporated and ammo exploded. Pretty expected outcome when cruise missile hits your mech directly.
Wait the damage for a relatively uncommon weapon from a tabletop game I haven't played in 18 years is oddly specific? So I guess you don't know the Stat bonuses an elemental gets at character creation just off the top of your head? Don't tell me you can't immediately tell me a 13th level thieves thac0?! What do you remember like useful or important stuff? Weeeeeird
Also Arrows are in MW4… you can put those bad boys on mechs. Heck in 4 mercs you can face a vulture mech in Solaris that min maxed with two sets of arrows. God those things can jack you up.
*Strictly* speaking, at least the premise of the game (Eric Dresari getting killed by Katrina Loyalists) is alluded to in the canon as long as you consider the classic BattleTech novels canon. In the novel Patriots and Tyrants, Duke Sandoval (the ruler of the Draconis March) was complaining that Eric Dresari was focusing on his duty to the now-desposed/retired/whatever Victor Steiner-Davion instead of focusing on the threat the Draconis Combine didn't really pose with Theodore Kurita on the throne. It's not hard to imagine the events of this game occurring. Sarna also lists that the FedCom Civil War handbook confirms the premise as canon, with a couple of inconsistencies. Pulse Lasers are also relatively consistent with canon behavior, where they were intended to hit the same place with multiple blasts to prevent melting armor from diluting a solid beam's energy or something like that. I've never thought about the customization system that way, and it makes some sense, especially for the plot of this game (less so for Mercenaries, because in that game you're not a cash- and crew-strapped resistance effort, you're a full-fledged Mercenary company with the backing of one of the largest Mercenary units in the Inner Sphere, and could probably afford fully customized, no-holds-barred 'Mechs for each of your 8 elite MechWarriors). However, I'm still a die-hard tabletop fan, so I'm therefore not a huge fan of the customization in this game. Let's see...Steiner forces having plenty of Clan 'Mechs...someone already mentioned the thing between Vlad Ward and Katherine Steiner-Davion (Which would still likely only explain Wolf-specific and Clan-neutral 'Mechs, like the Mad Cat and the Masakari), but there were also Operations Bulldog and Serpent which, if I remember correctly, got back from the Clan homeworlds about a year before this game. Both operations exclusively fought Clan forces, and would likely bring back plenty of salvage, which, since both operations were multinational, would have been distributed among each of the nations. This easily explains the Shadow Cat and Daishi, which were both Smoke Jaguar favorites. The presence of some 'Mechs still isn't so easily explained, like the Cougar, which was a Jade Falcon 'Mech and would likely have only seen combat against Inner Sphere forces on Coventry in 3057 (or in the Trial of Refusal on Strana Mechty, but those battles were a Binary vs a company, which means there would be, at the most, 2 Cougars, and likely fewer). The Mad Cat Mk. 2 was designed by Clan Diamond Shark, and sold to pretty much everybody, including Inner Sphere factions. I'm actually really disappointed that MechWarrior 5 and BattleTech aren't going to touch on the Jihad or Dark Age at all. Catalyst has done a ton of work the past few years making those eras less dumb, with TROs 3145 and 3150 and various Jihad-era sourcebooks (and soon, novels), and I think the Jihad would work really well as a video game story. Plus there's a ton of cool tech like Variable Speed Pulse Lasers, Heavy Lasers, and the reintroduction of stealth tech from the Star League. Actually a Star League game would be neat too, as would a Wars of Reaving video game. Really, the Third and Fourth Succession Wars and the Clan Invasion have been covered plenty. I get that the whole "worn down sci-fi universe" is Weissman's fetish, but the time periods that actually have cool stuff are what interest me the most. Sorry for the massive Nerd Essay, but I know way too much about the series canon for my own good.
Good one btw. As for the Cougar, yes mainly on Coventry..........but the falcons and Lyran's clashed along their borders frequently and the main invasion into the Lyran Commonwealth part of the Federated Commonwealth was Green Chickens, err Jade Falcons. Interestingly MW4 is prior to he 3064 Jade Falcon Incursion, which would better explain the Cougar better. But the Madcat MK II is the one which really had an explanation problem, as MW4 was the first time that one showed up and it had to be retconned into Battletech. As mentioned here, the game came first and then the TRO. www.reddit.com/r/battletech/comments/9b9euf/why_mad_cat_mk_ii_and_not_timber_wolf_ii/ The official Sarna.net page: www.sarna.net/wiki/Mad_Cat_Mk_II The TRO 3067 came out in 2002 and MW4 in 2000. www.sarna.net/wiki/Technical_Readout:_3067 www.sarna.net/wiki/MechWarrior_4:_Vengeance
@@LupusAries Didn't know that about the Mad Cat Mk. II. TRO 3067 is one I'm missing, though. As for the Cougar, according to TRO 3060 it was on Coventry, and Bulldog forces encountered it in MechComma--err, on Port Arthur against Smoke Jaguar forces. Maybe they got some in a Trial against the Green Chickens.
Given how missiles work in the tabletop game, MW4's missile system is actually pretty damn close to the original idea - damage is done in blobs of five, and it's random how many of the missiles will actually hit because of the mostly-crap guidance systems and ECM in the 31st Century.~ That said, MW3 is the one I enjoy the most, probably in large part because it was the first one I played, and one I played for years and YEARS as a youngster.
Ik, my dad introduced me into MW3 when I was about 5, and im 13 now. I wish I was born earlier, much earlier than 2005 so that I could of played the multiplayer, but hey at least I have the game still and the old laptop to play on it. Also pointing out the Avatar chassis looks best in MW3. Favorite mech, alongside the Shadowcat. ^^
I agree somewhat. While not my personal favorites, that honor goes to the Centurion and Bushwacker, they were nowhere near as bad as most of the original art for the IIC mechs, or the Hellhound. Jesus those things channeled the anime so hard.
MW4's soundtrack was so good. MW3, despite only 2 tracks, to me was a very haunting soundtrack. MW4 though was epic feeling. Wednesday 7 will forever be memorable to me.
"Who has an evil goatee. That's the caliber of storytelling we're dealing with." That's ALL of Battletech though. Everyone is either a hyper-competent badass or a mustache-twirling megalomaniac. That fits right in.
I was born in 95, so this was the first mechwarrior game I played (though i had played mechcommander 2 before), and I absolutely loved it. I probably sank over 1000 hours into vengeance, and would watch the intro cutscene every time.
I love it. Watch it even now if I'm playing a later mw game. I spent enough time at the Battletech VR center in Chicago that the mech graphics in mw4 were nifftyspiffty to me.
I wish MW5 had this smae hardpoint system. Now a heavy blasitics slot can hold you ac20 or 1 machine gun. Where in MW4 it could hold like 5 machine guns cuz duh machine guns are smaller
Absolutely love this series! I've recently gotten into BattleTech and your videos on MechWarrior really made me want to try them. Now I'm a MechWarrior 3 & MechWarrior 4: Mercenaries addict. Thank you very much for all you hard work on the amazing series of videos over the years.
Given how well defended your opinions are on the design of weapon systems, hitboxes, balance and so on, I would love to hear you talk about (or tear a new one into) MWO
"Imagine playing one of the great Star Wars games like Dark Forces 2: Jedi Knight or KotOR and being told "Yeah, none of that happened. It was just Luke's fever dream while he was on the bacta tank"" Guess what Disney just did...... Did you record this before the release of The Force Awakens?
I can honestly say I never even touched the campaigns in MW3 or 4. I played a little Instant Action for training and then I was playing multiplayer. MW3's tiny multiplayer community was on its last leg when I started playing that, but I played hundreds and hundreds of hours of MW4 multiplayer. And dude, the Uziel and Argus were two of my favorites! Along with the Bushwhacker and Shadowcat.
I grew up with this being my only Mechwarrior game I truly played by myself. I loved every bit of it, not knowing the lore that well I guess made it easier for me relate. Looking back on it, yeah it had a lot of off points, but to me, it has a soft spot in memories. I loved the sound effects and the music was always stuck in my head, so I can't say too much bad about it.
Agreed. The changes made to 4 fixed many flaws inherited from the tabletop game. What you gain more than makes up for what you lose, and to this day I occasionally put the soundtrack on while writing. Another thing about the soundtrack is that it was dynamically queued, giving it a very cinematic feel, which is something modern games have given up on and instead just run the soundtracks in a loop. Actually the straight voice acting is better in Vengeance than the FMV and no surprises to guess that those had a different director. Didn't help the script, but the delivery doesn't induce cringing. Seriously, just mute the FMV and walk away until it's over. I always like it when missions change in the middle, even after I know the change is scripted and it will always be there. It makes the action seem dynamic like it felt in Tie Fighter. Again this is something not done in games anymore. I guess yoots today find it confusing. Excited that you're going to continue covering this series! Best thing about BlackKnight is that you get to kill the characters from Vengeance. The black market provided some dynamic to the world, and I think there was some mission branching. BlackKnight is fun and I replayed it, some nice set pieces, but it didn't have the replayability of Mercenaries and its "choose your own path" pseudo open world structure. Best thing about Mercenaries was the arena fighting. Worst thing about Mercenaries was the ending which was uniformly, "and then unspecific things happened that made everything you did irrelevant" gee thanks. I tried looking at the "canon" universe they made to come after the Inner Sphere and Clans and it is impenetrable.
+Gallen Dugall Mech 4 Mercs came out when the dark age was warming up, so it's weird that it ends with a hook to the Jihad. Though MechAssault was about the Jihad. Basically the games have always lagged far behind the plot of the tabletop game. Anyway, you're not missing much. Classic Battletech ended around the time when Mech 4 Mercs did, and that's basically the last of the "good" Battle Tech stories. The Jihad was dumb, and the following Dark Age was even dumber.
This IS my favourite Mechwarrior game :). Best FMV, live acting, best presentation, makes sense, best delivery of the story and technically and gameplay-wise adept. Maybe slightly less simulatory compared to MW3, but still better overall. And multiplayer was simply great on release and 2-3 years after.
Woo! New video, and much faster than I would was expecting. In the tabletop game, changing weapons in regular Battlemechs (or fixed parts in OmniMechs) required a Technician Check. Changes were classified based on crit difference, weapon type difference, equipment changed, and this modified the roll and dictated where the change could take place (field, maintenance, or factory). Swapping a weapon with another that takes up equal or fewer crit spaces can be done in the field, but other weapon swaps require a trip to the maintenance bay, as does changing armor. Deep internal components, like myomer or skeleton, require a trip to the factory. It's really only applicable to campaigns, but it does add to the layers of roleplay. If you're interested, it's detailed on page 188 of Strategic Operations. The problem I had with MechWarrior 4 was that the hardpoints were *too* constrained and just didn't feel like BattleTech. Honestly, I think MWO is a better system, since it better marries the tabletop rules with video game balance. The mech designs themselves felt excessively bulky, and honestly I thought the visuals in MW3 looked better. A bunch of them, like the Mad Dog, just look downright disgusting. The addition of "extra" parts of mechs (like the missile racks on some) had the same effect as arms in previous games; since armor couldn't be added to them, they got blasted off super quick and so it was better to just not put anything in them. The addition of things like trees to give yourself a sense of scale, making you feel like you were in a big stompy robot, was nice though. Oh, and flamers work great against infantry. Sadly, there hasn't really been infantry in any MechWarrior game to speak of. Hell, units like VTOLs, tanks and elementals haven't really been done correctly. A shame, really.
Essentially how weapons work in MW4, is that the weapon visual is completely separate from the weapon mechanic. It's a straight up hit-scan mechanic, that instantly inflicts the full portion of damage when you click. Weapon visual 'burn time' doesn't really do any thing. To make it even worse, autocannons used the exact same mechanic, just with a different texture for the visual. That marks a pretty huge difference between 3 and 4- in 3, damage in MW3 was inflicted over time and could spread.
Great video btw, I'm getting the impression that you're a tad younger than the majority of MW's fanbase? Honestly curious since I am as well, always interesting to see the perspective from someone else not in the majority. :)
I actually really like the gameplay and feel of MWO save for how squishy the mechs feel. The mix of critical slots, hardpoints, and tonnage makes for great theorycrafting for each chassis and variant. I also like the Quirk system. It makes sense that if a mech was designed to mount a certain weapon like a PPC that it would get those mounts optimized with better cooling geometry and thicker power cables to reduce induction heating. If they could ever make it less of a grind and give the mechs a bit more armor HP so you could have wide open maps be less of a slog, I think it would be the pinnacle of the series.
Actually the game takes place around 3065-67 ish and by then the sphere did have that much clan salvage as the jaguar campaign ended by 3060 and the refusal war ended earlier than that, the clan invasion was minimum 15 years ago at the point of this game
Can't wait to see your opinion on not only Mercenaries but also the additional MekTek expansion such as the additional Direct Fire (Ballistic/Energy) Heat Generating (Energy/Missile) and Ammo Consuming (Ballistic/Missile) mounts or the return of *many* classic 'mechs. Also, this might be my nostalgia goggles acting up but while MechWarrior 3's soundtrack was atonal, I still enjoy listening to the soundtracks alongside the likes of Jeehun Hwang and Carey Chico. Plus, it's Duane Decker who composed the soundtrack to the MechCommander games and MW4: Vengeance.
Uziel was awesome, especially in the earlier missions. Later on I preferred more hulking mechs, like a mad cat, mad cat mk2 or daishi. But if I wanted a medium mech, it's either uziel or shadow cat. Although in MW4:Mercs there was hellhound. Sooo... There I had 3 personal favorites mediums. :D
This was the first mech game I played and it dominated a couple years of my life. I actually went back and tried MW3 and MW2 mercs to see where the series came from. Now im hooked on MW5 mercs on steam and thats why im looking up there reviews now
How does 5 compare to the older games? just got it and I'm personally loving it but I can't really find reviews of 5 comparing it to the older ones, haven't really played a mechwarrior game until now.
Big guys running around killing each other is technically canon. Because of the Neurohelmets, mechs are actually very agile. Good pilots can basically juke, and there was a piloting contest where a pilot got his mech to do a handstand leading to him winning, but spending all of his prize money fixing the arms because the actuators were never intended to do that. Mechs are sort of supposed to fight like really large infantry, not walking tanks.
Holy fuck! It didn't take a year for another glorious video! Gawd, your retrospective makes me feel good all over! But yes, those spirits of people was such a lazy choice compared literally vaporizing them in MW3
IIRC, the FedCom Civil War Sourcebook does mention Kentares and Ian Dresari. While the battles and events of the game are in a grey area, Wizkids/Fanpro (the companies that inherited Battletech) did acknowledge that the game happened.
These videos are very well done. I loved MechWarrior as a kid, and played most of these games, and it's really fun to see them from this perspective. You need to finish M4: Mercs and do one on MechWarrior Online!
I feel the same way about the hardpoint system as you do. The old mechlab was just way too open and let you create ridiculous min-maxed monstrosities. There was no functional difference between the mechs outside of shape and tonnage. MW4 was a necessary compromise to give different mechs their own character.
Great analysis! Completely agree on the better weapon design from MW3 and how MW3/MW4 put so many Clan mechs in the hand of IS (which completely ruins immersion).
I played Battletech in the 80s and Mechwarrior on a Tandy 1000, and most of the titles since. Agree about the hard points, that always bothered me in the computer games. In the tabletop game, you were also given a blank 'mech sheet to build your own custom design from , and it was understood that the miniature on the table was only a representation of the weight class and general design. In the players' minds, it was re-engineered as you describe. This added to a poker-like uncertainty and depth to strategy in face-to-face games with dozens of minis, terrain, model railroad buildings and bridges, etc., it's a blast - but that element is lost in translation to simulation-based computer game using established 'mech designs and variants. MW thrives on its sim quality immersion.
14:50 Oh God how true that is. I remember reading the little bits of mercenary history that MW:4 Mercs gave you in the installer so many times I can still to this day remember a good portion of it.
I remember being in 6th grade and faking sick so I could play this game for the like sixth time. I loooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooove the FMV. Still do. Karl, Ian, Uncle Peter, Casey, Jen, Jules, Joanna, Tara, damon, Elise, Burke, Roland and WILLIAM. The tension of being all alone and trying to take down burke in my badly damaged Mauler, but having a gauss rifle and LBX20 just punching holes in his bitch ass, the satisfaction of murdering Roland's dropship as he pathetically tries to escape, and then out maneuvering william with my 6 ERLL timber wolf. I remembered all those characters off the top of my head. Could't do that with almost any other game. And god the music. THAT MUSIC. Mercs was a better game but vengeance had the best acting, cast, and story of any mech game. This was the game that got me invested in the lore in a way that 2 and 3 totally didn't. I now respect Davion and HATE Steiner. But I mean... Clan Care Bear and Danger Woof is where my loyalties truly lie Multiplayer this series was so jank. Jump jets and large lasers everywhere. I only had a fighting chance in black knight, where I ran an uller with three flamers and an arty strike. I'd trigger their overheat and then TKO with an arty to the face. could take 3-5 mechs out a game that way. One of the most fun challenge runs in the mechwarrior 4 franchise is to only run IS mechs and IS tech. the game gets SO much more challenging that way. I preferred the mech design starting in 4. previous to that, I always thought battletech looked awful and amateur. like shit I'd draw as a little kid.
best version of pulse lasers is MWO. pulse lasers are just lasers that pulse a bit to give the vaporized metal time to dissipate so it can punch through, not to mention they don't need to be on target for the same period of time to do comparable/more damage then normal lasers. Also, Lore wise, Mechs can't just slap on whatever, they where limited to their hardpoints and their sizes. Omni mechs though, where more like, mix and match, you could take a part (say a Left torso and arm) from one Omni Mech variant and put it on the other.
I played this for free when they put it out for download on a torrent. It was two games and they were fun. The hard point system was hard to get used to, but fine once I did.
One more comment I forgot to add. When this game was released this was the best graphics of the day. There was no game that even came close in level of 3d. This was like a flight simulator in realism. And I remember seeing this game on display at harvey norman going wow!!! Dad check out the graphics *Jaw Dropped*. Thanks for the christmas present dad :)
I'm not sure if those missiles in the Intro are LRMs.........they could be Arrrow IVs instead. www.sarna.net/wiki/Arrow_IV_Artillery They can wreck a 45 ton Shadowcat easily, hell even a 90 Ton Mauler can be taken down in two direct hits, as mentioned in the first Camacho's Caballeros novel. And Katrina Steiner is actually Katherine Steiner-Davion.........Victor's Sister! Minor detail but an important one. Also she was his co regent for the Lyran Half of the Federated Commonwealth and then in 3057 took the Lyran Part out over the whole Incident with Joshau Marik, or rather that was her pretext. The in 3060-3062-ish she basically pushed out Yvonne Steiner-Davion, her Sister, who had been Victor's Regent, while he was away fighting the Clans. By making her a Steiner and him a Davion, you make it sound like she either was one of the many Steiner Cousins, and god knows the Steiners have enough of them, and they do like to play their intrigues, or worse, make it look like they were actually married. So in short you could've said: "In the real Battletech Univser Katrina Steiner, born Katherine Steiner Davion, seized power from her Brother Victor by pushing out her sister Yvonne Steiner-Davion who had been Victor's Regent. That way she gained power over the Federated Suns part of the Federated Commonwealth, after she had taken over the Lyran part of the Commonwealth in 3057. Good points on the weapons, and especially on the Mechs, yeah there were too many Clan Mechs. I mean in most cases the individual mechwarriors had Clan tech but rarely weapons, Archer Cristifori for example only had two ER Large Lasers of his Penetrators being Clan tech.........and he was a damn recipient of the Star League Medal of Honour, one of only two from Operation Bulldog. As for the Pulse lasers, I think the MW4 and MWO version is a bit more canon, as in measured bursts hitting a target, but overall the MW3 ones work a bit better for hitting fast moving targets. It's partially why I kept them, to hunt for Elementals. The MWO ones are kinda good at doing damage at hitting fast lights but, they are still very problematic. ;) I was originally thinking we did not need another retread of the same Issues I had with the MW4 mechbuilding system and the Hardpoints, and nterestingly you echo some of my problems, as in the inability to build proper canon builds. Unlike Gallen Dugal, overall I lost more than I gained in that system. However you still repeat some of the errors of before, not all variants are factory differences, quite a few, especially in the old Succession war era were field Mods or basically "Frankenmechs". Second problem still is the Madcat aka Timber Wolf is an Omni, so all it's hardpoints should be omni. www.sarna.net/wiki/Timber_Wolf_(Mad_Cat) That would truly show the advantage of an Omni-Mech over a standard Battlemech. I would also disagree that the System is not Perfect at all, as you state one can see easily what one is up against and has certain weakspots to shoot at. We have the same in MWO, where everybody knows where the Atlas's AC is or the Hunchback's AC so everybody shoots their right torso. Now in a System like MW3 or MW2 you could easily foil such tactics by placing the Cannon in the other Torso, which keeps the enemy more on their toes, and does neither make your nor their job to easy. Especially in MWO this makes certain mechs absolutely Obsolete, like the TDR-9SE almost all weapons in the Left Torso, guess where everybody is shooting at. So the system seems brilliant at first glance, but that doesn't hold up in long term play. Very good point on the movement, it just felt wrong and lacked Inertia. It's one of the really great things in MW3, that every mech felt different to control and they even felt different in the same weightclass, an Annihilator was notably more sluggish than a Daishi and not just in speed. Definate good poin on the Music, the MW4 music was definately better than MW3. And I agree skip to MW4 Mercs.......it is the best one of the MW4s and the only which I enjoyed somewhat.
This is an old video, so I'm sure you either know this by now or don't care any more. But pulse lasers are repeated blasts in canon; an energy machine gun rather than a continuous beam. Mechwarrior 2 handled this aspect the best.
11:30 - "Or you'll pelt a scout mech with a dozen flights of missles from an LRM 20 and it barely does a scratch." Well that's what you get for going head-to-head with a Steiner Scout Lance.
The hard point system was a good idea but it could have been done better, at least with the Omni-mechs. My biggest complaint with the story is that it removed AFGANCAAP which is one of my favorite tropes. I think it gives you better immersion into the story because it makes it feel like it's YOU! in that mech doing the fighting.
Great as always. I agree the hard point system added something special to this game. I never really cared for the unlimited customizing of the previous games. Balance between classes still stunk and MW4 was still a race to the assaults but slightly less so than the previous titles.
My music teacher from 7th grade gave me all the Mechwarrior 4 games one day. Mostly because he hoped if I played Mech4, I'd stop doodling Mechs in my sheet music. If that was his goal, then he failed.
the fast movement is more accurate to the lore, battlemechs are not powered by crude hydraulics and pistons, they are run by artificial muscle and are hooked directly into the mechwarioirs nervous system via the neural helmet, a veteran MechWarrior can move their mech limbs as if they were their own.
I knew the acting was bad , but I enjoyed the Cinematics. I remember playing this, black knight and Mercenaries over and over with a Joystick, and I was good with it. The dual thumb sticks for Gen. X .
Vengeance was the first "real" videogame I ever played at the tender age of 7 and it has been a favorite ever since. To this day I have no idea how I finished the game multiple times, considering english is my second language but I chalk it up to precociousness. Strangely enough Uziel is my favorite mech but I've never seen anyone else enjoy it :/
I've been waiting for this one for so long! This was the first MechWarrior game I played as a kid (although I did also get to play 3 not too long after) so it's nice to see it get some attention. Also thank god I'm not the only one who actually likes the hardpoint system. As far as lasers and ballistics go, I think they were handled best in 3, but overall my favorite entry in the series is MechWarrior 4: Mercenaries (albeit I don't enjoy it nearly as much without the Mektek modifications). I look forward to hearing your thoughts on the next ones! PS: Are you planning on talking about MW:O at some point as well?
Mechwarrior games are apocryphal, meaning that everything is canon unless directly contradicted by other canon material. Most of Mechwarrior 4: Vengeance's story is canon. The majority of its non-canon elements are the mech variants we see and the dropships that are used.
Nice to see someone can run mw 4 in Windows 10... I have tried couple weeks to get it run without succes. I have givenup hope to get it work. And sorry for bad english :/
Good to hear this one just works on Windows. I've wanted to get into mech games for a little while now, but the amount of tweaking to get them to maybe perhaps kind of work put me off. Even Shattered Steel on GoG requires some minor tweaking to get working as the collision detection is broken. I might pick this one up at some point. Here's hoping it plays nice with external disc drives, or there's a no-cd patch for the game. As for the customization, having not played any Mechwarrior game aside from the SNES game I can't say for sure, but from what you describe, I agree with you on the customization. Games like Armoured Core have lots of customization, but that just leads to min maxing. Either the game is balanced around good builds, meaning that for practical purposes all of those hundreds of parts are worthless as only a dozen or so actually matter, or the game is balanced around average play, meaning it's possible to breeze through the game with the right builds.
I joined the fray with MW3, and i still miss other sophisticated mechanics like knocking mechs down with a lot of AC hits, or just knocking yourself down firing twin AC20s. "Gyro overload" :D What still puzzles me are the jumpy cockpit animations, a warmachine that well developed should keep the combat at level, while moving to keep the aim accurate.
Ok the events leading to the game's plot are canon. Victor gets briefed on what happened to Ian's father Eric during the novel Patriots' and Tyrants and earlier in the novel its revealed he went to the Duke of the Draconis March (The Federated Suns region next to the Kurita ruled Draconis Combine) complaining about some of Katrina's actions but the Duke was so focused on Kurita that he blew him off. Didn't the game's events get mentioned in the Fedcom Civil War sourcebook? (My copy is in storage ATM so I can't confirm.) And I agree the number of Clan designed Mechs in the games seems high but then again it takes place more then a decade after the initial invasion. Plus there's all the ones looted when Clan Smoke Jaguar fell, any claimed as war prizes or salvaged from raids on the clan Occupation zones and the Wolf Dragoon's mercenary unit, former Clan scouts, can produce Clan Mechs that they have blueprints for. That being said I think there is too much of a focus on Clan mechs in the heavy and assault classes in this game, and there are some clan Mechs included are new enough they should be very rare in non-Clan hands. I prefer the laser system from 3 and the missile system from 2. I don't hate the hardpoint system but I think they needed a larger mech inventory as part of the base game if they wanted this to be accepted. I like Inner Sphere Heavy class energy boats but here all I can use is clan mechs because I can't tweak any of the Inner Sphere Heavies to a configuration I like and I feel that is what causes a lot of the hate for the system. Not the idea itself but the combination of the hardpoint system and the limited variety of mechs in the game.
To answer why steiner had access to clan mechs after the wars, katrina steiner and the khan of clan wolf had a relationship (solace romance and shit ) and because of that, she got access to clan mechs and tech.
Just beat this game, beat Mech 3 sometime last week. Both are awesome games! I pretty much agree with everything you said, except I didn't mind the tougher mechs so much. I prefer the pulse lasers from Mech 3, but other than that, the weapons are a good upgrade overall from M3. They feel punchier and more powerful, despite mechs being tougher overall. And I agree the story was terrible. They flanderized the bad guys and made the lighting in their rooms darker for absolutely no reason other than to make them look sinister. It's would be kinda funny, if it weren't so boring. In general I'm less interested in the Inner Sphere than the Clans. Good review!
I am indifferent to the difference in missiles in most of these games. I think MechWarrior 2 looked the coolest, but they all function pretty similarly. Lasers were probably best in MechWarrior 3, though I disagree with their interpretation of pulse lasers. Correct me if I am wrong, but I believe they are described pretty much how they acted in MechWarrior 2. I know you're not counting MechWarrior: Online in this, but I would say that has done the absolute best pulse laser so far. Kind of a mix of all of them. Autocannons sounded the coolest in MechWarrior 2, although they did not work. I thought they were fairly underwhelming in the following iterations. Once again, I think this was something MW:O has done really well.
Given that small pulse lasers function identically to machine guns when used against infantry, I'd have to imagine standard pulse lasers are functionally laser machine-guns.
Oh the acting in this game was soooo bad.
I remember letting the sister die just so I would never have to hear her annoying voice again.
Couldn't muster an ounce of sympathy for her.
I'm super excited to hear your eventual thoughts on MechAssault, mostly because I think 'polarizing' is a very... kind word for such a shitheap.
Or your lancemate Jules' bizarre diagonal head nodding every three or four words of dialogue. The acting is pretty rough.
I actually thought the acting was pretty good, especially during the pre-mission briefing.
Oh my God I remember her dieing and was like "meh"
I worked on the team at (Santa Monica-based and now defunct) Station X Studios that did all the cinematics for Vengeance. I was employed as general 3D artist / animator. Took the studio around three months, with the live action elements filmed on 35mm by a separate production house. Most of it was developed from a preliminary draft and the project was wrapped by mid 2000. The master was actually produced at broadcast quality.
I never played the actual game until many years later. To be honest; can't say I enjoyed it that much. Entertaining retrospective nonetheless.
nice
I'm an old Mechwarrior fan (35) and the Uziel is one of my favourite mechs. Yes, I'm strange.
It's one of my fav. Medium mechs as well, don't feel too bad ;)
Your not strange you just spit facts
It was the first mech you got with real fire power. Double ppc is nothing to scoff at.
It's a op unit
It’s a good jobber mech for its role, especially for the setting of this game as a guerrilla fighter. It is fantastic for hit and run tactics from its use of the jump jets allowing it to “poptart” over hills while giving a good stab at an opposing mech. Also like the way it looks… it’s endearing. It’s a watermelon with legs, what more could you ask!
Man I love the uziel, I dunno what so bad about it, its got a strange and kinda unique design to it that I just adore
Okay okay hold your horses about the opening cinematic. Personally i love old cinematics with RL actors, they had that unique vibe to them, cringy but fun. But that's an opinion.
Where you are wrong is about the whole "3 random LRMs one shoting Sig2". First of all Sigma lance was recon lance in training, only Sig lead was experienced MechWarrior and their mentor. While Sigma2 beeing rookie panicked despite given orders. Second of all those were not LRMs but Arrows (or less likely Tbolts) which are artillery rockets that deal AC/20 damage at hit location and 10 damage splash, meaning poor Shadow Cats LT armor evaporated and ammo exploded. Pretty expected outcome when cruise missile hits your mech directly.
Arrows or Tbolts would make more sense.
Wait the damage for a relatively uncommon weapon from a tabletop game I haven't played in 18 years is oddly specific? So I guess you don't know the Stat bonuses an elemental gets at character creation just off the top of your head? Don't tell me you can't immediately tell me a 13th level thieves thac0?! What do you remember like useful or important stuff? Weeeeeird
@@bstewart41520 oh no, how dare I point out that the way he brings up and mocks parts of opening cinematic are wrong
Also Arrows are in MW4… you can put those bad boys on mechs. Heck in 4 mercs you can face a vulture mech in Solaris that min maxed with two sets of arrows. God those things can jack you up.
@@bstewart41520 uncommon in tabletop doesnt mean it aint there
Its like saying the Devastator isn't real
"That's what happens when you min/max, dumbass."
Hahahahahhaha subbed
Yeah I laughed out loud at that!
*Strictly* speaking, at least the premise of the game (Eric Dresari getting killed by Katrina Loyalists) is alluded to in the canon as long as you consider the classic BattleTech novels canon. In the novel Patriots and Tyrants, Duke Sandoval (the ruler of the Draconis March) was complaining that Eric Dresari was focusing on his duty to the now-desposed/retired/whatever Victor Steiner-Davion instead of focusing on the threat the Draconis Combine didn't really pose with Theodore Kurita on the throne. It's not hard to imagine the events of this game occurring. Sarna also lists that the FedCom Civil War handbook confirms the premise as canon, with a couple of inconsistencies. Pulse Lasers are also relatively consistent with canon behavior, where they were intended to hit the same place with multiple blasts to prevent melting armor from diluting a solid beam's energy or something like that.
I've never thought about the customization system that way, and it makes some sense, especially for the plot of this game (less so for Mercenaries, because in that game you're not a cash- and crew-strapped resistance effort, you're a full-fledged Mercenary company with the backing of one of the largest Mercenary units in the Inner Sphere, and could probably afford fully customized, no-holds-barred 'Mechs for each of your 8 elite MechWarriors). However, I'm still a die-hard tabletop fan, so I'm therefore not a huge fan of the customization in this game.
Let's see...Steiner forces having plenty of Clan 'Mechs...someone already mentioned the thing between Vlad Ward and Katherine Steiner-Davion (Which would still likely only explain Wolf-specific and Clan-neutral 'Mechs, like the Mad Cat and the Masakari), but there were also Operations Bulldog and Serpent which, if I remember correctly, got back from the Clan homeworlds about a year before this game. Both operations exclusively fought Clan forces, and would likely bring back plenty of salvage, which, since both operations were multinational, would have been distributed among each of the nations. This easily explains the Shadow Cat and Daishi, which were both Smoke Jaguar favorites. The presence of some 'Mechs still isn't so easily explained, like the Cougar, which was a Jade Falcon 'Mech and would likely have only seen combat against Inner Sphere forces on Coventry in 3057 (or in the Trial of Refusal on Strana Mechty, but those battles were a Binary vs a company, which means there would be, at the most, 2 Cougars, and likely fewer). The Mad Cat Mk. 2 was designed by Clan Diamond Shark, and sold to pretty much everybody, including Inner Sphere factions.
I'm actually really disappointed that MechWarrior 5 and BattleTech aren't going to touch on the Jihad or Dark Age at all. Catalyst has done a ton of work the past few years making those eras less dumb, with TROs 3145 and 3150 and various Jihad-era sourcebooks (and soon, novels), and I think the Jihad would work really well as a video game story. Plus there's a ton of cool tech like Variable Speed Pulse Lasers, Heavy Lasers, and the reintroduction of stealth tech from the Star League. Actually a Star League game would be neat too, as would a Wars of Reaving video game. Really, the Third and Fourth Succession Wars and the Clan Invasion have been covered plenty. I get that the whole "worn down sci-fi universe" is Weissman's fetish, but the time periods that actually have cool stuff are what interest me the most.
Sorry for the massive Nerd Essay, but I know way too much about the series canon for my own good.
Good one btw. As for the Cougar, yes mainly on Coventry..........but the falcons and Lyran's clashed along their borders frequently and the main invasion into the Lyran Commonwealth part of the Federated Commonwealth was Green Chickens, err Jade Falcons.
Interestingly MW4 is prior to he 3064 Jade Falcon Incursion, which would better explain the Cougar better.
But the Madcat MK II is the one which really had an explanation problem, as MW4 was the first time that one showed up and it had to be retconned into Battletech.
As mentioned here, the game came first and then the TRO.
www.reddit.com/r/battletech/comments/9b9euf/why_mad_cat_mk_ii_and_not_timber_wolf_ii/
The official Sarna.net page:
www.sarna.net/wiki/Mad_Cat_Mk_II
The TRO 3067 came out in 2002 and MW4 in 2000.
www.sarna.net/wiki/Technical_Readout:_3067
www.sarna.net/wiki/MechWarrior_4:_Vengeance
@@LupusAries Didn't know that about the Mad Cat Mk. II. TRO 3067 is one I'm missing, though.
As for the Cougar, according to TRO 3060 it was on Coventry, and Bulldog forces encountered it in MechComma--err, on Port Arthur against Smoke Jaguar forces. Maybe they got some in a Trial against the Green Chickens.
Given how missiles work in the tabletop game, MW4's missile system is actually pretty damn close to the original idea - damage is done in blobs of five, and it's random how many of the missiles will actually hit because of the mostly-crap guidance systems and ECM in the 31st Century.~
That said, MW3 is the one I enjoy the most, probably in large part because it was the first one I played, and one I played for years and YEARS as a youngster.
Ik, my dad introduced me into MW3 when I was about 5, and im 13 now. I wish I was born earlier, much earlier than 2005 so that I could of played the multiplayer, but hey at least I have the game still and the old laptop to play on it.
Also pointing out the Avatar chassis looks best in MW3. Favorite mech, alongside the Shadowcat. ^^
Obligatory
"You DARE to refuse my Batchalli?!" 3:08
I liked the uziel, madcat mk and thanatos. Those were amazing for new mechs.
I agree somewhat. While not my personal favorites, that honor goes to the Centurion and Bushwacker, they were nowhere near as bad as most of the original art for the IIC mechs, or the Hellhound. Jesus those things channeled the anime so hard.
MW4's soundtrack was so good. MW3, despite only 2 tracks, to me was a very haunting soundtrack. MW4 though was epic feeling. Wednesday 7 will forever be memorable to me.
For the record, the line was 'It was inevitable...Everything has changed.'
bro the intro to this game gave me goosebumps
"Who has an evil goatee. That's the caliber of storytelling we're dealing with." That's ALL of Battletech though. Everyone is either a hyper-competent badass or a mustache-twirling megalomaniac. That fits right in.
I was born in 95, so this was the first mechwarrior game I played (though i had played mechcommander 2 before), and I absolutely loved it. I probably sank over 1000 hours into vengeance, and would watch the intro cutscene every time.
Heyyyyyy, i absolutely loved the cinematics
Ian Drsaurri me too 👍
I love it. Watch it even now if I'm playing a later mw game. I spent enough time at the Battletech VR center in Chicago that the mech graphics in mw4 were nifftyspiffty
to me.
This intro is dope. Reminds me of the Front mission 4 intro
I wish MW5 had this smae hardpoint system. Now a heavy blasitics slot can hold you ac20 or 1 machine gun. Where in MW4 it could hold like 5 machine guns cuz duh machine guns are smaller
That intro cinematic is awesome.
Absolutely love this series! I've recently gotten into BattleTech and your videos on MechWarrior really made me want to try them. Now I'm a MechWarrior 3 & MechWarrior 4: Mercenaries addict. Thank you very much for all you hard work on the amazing series of videos over the years.
Would love to get a new segment in the series for Mechwarrior 5. I found your channel because of this series and its still my favorite.
Given how well defended your opinions are on the design of weapon systems, hitboxes, balance and so on, I would love to hear you talk about (or tear a new one into) MWO
+patmurf1 I'll get to it. Eventually. :)
@@TheExaminedLifeofGaming Oh yeah?
I realize those who are a fan of battletech universe really are superfans of the universe. If you fall for this franchise you really fall deep...
Mech 4's soundtrack (and i include all of them) is something i still listen to every once in a while. Hunter, Behemoth and the rest.
Absolutely love your work! Please post more! Def looking forward to the MW4 Mercs retrospective.
Excellent work, please keep it up! Can't wait for Part 8. You also need to add this video to your playlist!
+Adam Haas Oh yeah, thanks for the reminder!
"Imagine playing one of the great Star Wars games like Dark Forces 2: Jedi Knight or KotOR and being told "Yeah, none of that happened. It was just Luke's fever dream while he was on the bacta tank""
Guess what Disney just did......
Did you record this before the release of The Force Awakens?
I made a reference to that. "... before Star Wars hit the great big reset button in the sky..."
ooops....
loved the video anyway :D
Hey I enjoy you videos. You have a great pace with some great humor. Keep doing these awesome videos.
Wasnt expecting one so soon.
Keep up the good work.
I can honestly say I never even touched the campaigns in MW3 or 4. I played a little Instant Action for training and then I was playing multiplayer. MW3's tiny multiplayer community was on its last leg when I started playing that, but I played hundreds and hundreds of hours of MW4 multiplayer. And dude, the Uziel and Argus were two of my favorites! Along with the Bushwhacker and Shadowcat.
I grew up with this being my only Mechwarrior game I truly played by myself. I loved every bit of it, not knowing the lore that well I guess made it easier for me relate. Looking back on it, yeah it had a lot of off points, but to me, it has a soft spot in memories. I loved the sound effects and the music was always stuck in my head, so I can't say too much bad about it.
0:28 the mech bugging out in the back
The soundtrack for this game is amazing, perfect blend of guitar, synth, and orchestra
Agreed. The changes made to 4 fixed many flaws inherited from the tabletop game. What you gain more than makes up for what you lose, and to this day I occasionally put the soundtrack on while writing. Another thing about the soundtrack is that it was dynamically queued, giving it a very cinematic feel, which is something modern games have given up on and instead just run the soundtracks in a loop.
Actually the straight voice acting is better in Vengeance than the FMV and no surprises to guess that those had a different director. Didn't help the script, but the delivery doesn't induce cringing. Seriously, just mute the FMV and walk away until it's over.
I always like it when missions change in the middle, even after I know the change is scripted and it will always be there. It makes the action seem dynamic like it felt in Tie Fighter. Again this is something not done in games anymore. I guess yoots today find it confusing.
Excited that you're going to continue covering this series!
Best thing about BlackKnight is that you get to kill the characters from Vengeance. The black market provided some dynamic to the world, and I think there was some mission branching. BlackKnight is fun and I replayed it, some nice set pieces, but it didn't have the replayability of Mercenaries and its "choose your own path" pseudo open world structure. Best thing about Mercenaries was the arena fighting. Worst thing about Mercenaries was the ending which was uniformly, "and then unspecific things happened that made everything you did irrelevant" gee thanks. I tried looking at the "canon" universe they made to come after the Inner Sphere and Clans and it is impenetrable.
+Gallen Dugall Mech 4 Mercs came out when the dark age was warming up, so it's weird that it ends with a hook to the Jihad. Though MechAssault was about the Jihad.
Basically the games have always lagged far behind the plot of the tabletop game.
Anyway, you're not missing much. Classic Battletech ended around the time when Mech 4 Mercs did, and that's basically the last of the "good" Battle Tech stories. The Jihad was dumb, and the following Dark Age was even dumber.
@@TheExaminedLifeofGaming Oh I couldn't possibly agree more..
This IS my favourite Mechwarrior game :). Best FMV, live acting, best presentation, makes sense, best delivery of the story and technically and gameplay-wise adept. Maybe slightly less simulatory compared to MW3, but still better overall. And multiplayer was simply great on release and 2-3 years after.
Woo! New video, and much faster than I would was expecting.
In the tabletop game, changing weapons in regular Battlemechs (or fixed parts in OmniMechs) required a Technician Check. Changes were classified based on crit difference, weapon type difference, equipment changed, and this modified the roll and dictated where the change could take place (field, maintenance, or factory). Swapping a weapon with another that takes up equal or fewer crit spaces can be done in the field, but other weapon swaps require a trip to the maintenance bay, as does changing armor. Deep internal components, like myomer or skeleton, require a trip to the factory. It's really only applicable to campaigns, but it does add to the layers of roleplay. If you're interested, it's detailed on page 188 of Strategic Operations.
The problem I had with MechWarrior 4 was that the hardpoints were *too* constrained and just didn't feel like BattleTech. Honestly, I think MWO is a better system, since it better marries the tabletop rules with video game balance.
The mech designs themselves felt excessively bulky, and honestly I thought the visuals in MW3 looked better. A bunch of them, like the Mad Dog, just look downright disgusting. The addition of "extra" parts of mechs (like the missile racks on some) had the same effect as arms in previous games; since armor couldn't be added to them, they got blasted off super quick and so it was better to just not put anything in them. The addition of things like trees to give yourself a sense of scale, making you feel like you were in a big stompy robot, was nice though.
Oh, and flamers work great against infantry. Sadly, there hasn't really been infantry in any MechWarrior game to speak of. Hell, units like VTOLs, tanks and elementals haven't really been done correctly. A shame, really.
LBX-ACs in the mauler, good on ya.
Essentially how weapons work in MW4, is that the weapon visual is completely separate from the weapon mechanic. It's a straight up hit-scan mechanic, that instantly inflicts the full portion of damage when you click. Weapon visual 'burn time' doesn't really do any thing. To make it even worse, autocannons used the exact same mechanic, just with a different texture for the visual. That marks a pretty huge difference between 3 and 4- in 3, damage in MW3 was inflicted over time and could spread.
+Jack Fraser It looks like craaaaaaaaaap
Great video btw, I'm getting the impression that you're a tad younger than the majority of MW's fanbase? Honestly curious since I am as well, always interesting to see the perspective from someone else not in the majority. :)
+Jack Fraser Mechwarrior 2 has the best autocannons. I don't know why anyone ever changed from that.
Jack Fraser I'm not sure how old the fanbase at large is, but I'm 26.
Wonderful work as usual Roland ^_^
Keep it up!
I actually really like the gameplay and feel of MWO save for how squishy the mechs feel. The mix of critical slots, hardpoints, and tonnage makes for great theorycrafting for each chassis and variant. I also like the Quirk system. It makes sense that if a mech was designed to mount a certain weapon like a PPC that it would get those mounts optimized with better cooling geometry and thicker power cables to reduce induction heating. If they could ever make it less of a grind and give the mechs a bit more armor HP so you could have wide open maps be less of a slog, I think it would be the pinnacle of the series.
Actually the game takes place around 3065-67 ish and by then the sphere did have that much clan salvage as the jaguar campaign ended by 3060 and the refusal war ended earlier than that, the clan invasion was minimum 15 years ago at the point of this game
Can't wait to see your opinion on not only Mercenaries but also the additional MekTek expansion such as the additional Direct Fire (Ballistic/Energy) Heat Generating (Energy/Missile) and Ammo Consuming (Ballistic/Missile) mounts or the return of *many* classic 'mechs.
Also, this might be my nostalgia goggles acting up but while MechWarrior 3's soundtrack was atonal, I still enjoy listening to the soundtracks alongside the likes of Jeehun Hwang and Carey Chico. Plus, it's Duane Decker who composed the soundtrack to the MechCommander games and MW4: Vengeance.
1:20 Man I love that cinematic though.
The Uziel is my favorite 'mech of all.
Uziel was awesome, especially in the earlier missions. Later on I preferred more hulking mechs, like a mad cat, mad cat mk2 or daishi. But if I wanted a medium mech, it's either uziel or shadow cat. Although in MW4:Mercs there was hellhound. Sooo... There I had 3 personal favorites mediums. :D
This was the first mech game I played and it dominated a couple years of my life. I actually went back and tried MW3 and MW2 mercs to see where the series came from. Now im hooked on MW5 mercs on steam and thats why im looking up there reviews now
How does 5 compare to the older games? just got it and I'm personally loving it but I can't really find reviews of 5 comparing it to the older ones, haven't really played a mechwarrior game until now.
I saw this game at a garage sale a handful of years ago and now I wish I’d picked it up
Big guys running around killing each other is technically canon. Because of the Neurohelmets, mechs are actually very agile. Good pilots can basically juke, and there was a piloting contest where a pilot got his mech to do a handstand leading to him winning, but spending all of his prize money fixing the arms because the actuators were never intended to do that.
Mechs are sort of supposed to fight like really large infantry, not walking tanks.
Holy fuck!
It didn't take a year for another glorious video!
Gawd, your retrospective makes me feel good all over!
But yes, those spirits of people was such a lazy choice compared literally vaporizing them in MW3
+Salokin Sekwah Gotta keep that T rating.
IIRC, the FedCom Civil War Sourcebook does mention Kentares and Ian Dresari. While the battles and events of the game are in a grey area, Wizkids/Fanpro (the companies that inherited Battletech) did acknowledge that the game happened.
These videos are very well done. I loved MechWarrior as a kid, and played most of these games, and it's really fun to see them from this perspective. You need to finish M4: Mercs and do one on MechWarrior Online!
I feel the same way about the hardpoint system as you do. The old mechlab was just way too open and let you create ridiculous min-maxed monstrosities. There was no functional difference between the mechs outside of shape and tonnage. MW4 was a necessary compromise to give different mechs their own character.
Thanks for doing your part in making "Revengeance" a thing. Konami needs to become the mockery that title deserves.
+Ghost81 and thank you for reminding me Vincent Price exists :D
+Ghost81 Funny thing is is that the word already existed, it's just coming back in fashion.
+White Knight I'm not sure "fashion" is the word I'd use
Glad to see you're still making videos.
Great analysis! Completely agree on the better weapon design from MW3 and how MW3/MW4 put so many Clan mechs in the hand of IS (which completely ruins immersion).
I played Battletech in the 80s and Mechwarrior on a Tandy 1000, and most of the titles since. Agree about the hard points, that always bothered me in the computer games. In the tabletop game, you were also given a blank 'mech sheet to build your own custom design from , and it was understood that the miniature on the table was only a representation of the weight class and general design. In the players' minds, it was re-engineered as you describe. This added to a poker-like uncertainty and depth to strategy in face-to-face games with dozens of minis, terrain, model railroad buildings and bridges, etc., it's a blast - but that element is lost in translation to simulation-based computer game using established 'mech designs and variants. MW thrives on its sim quality immersion.
YESYESYES! My childhood is here!
14:50 Oh God how true that is. I remember reading the little bits of mercenary history that MW:4 Mercs gave you in the installer so many times I can still to this day remember a good portion of it.
Hot dang! Seems like Pirate's Moon just came out! Thanks!
+jadegecko 1 month for me is like no time at all. :D
Two videos in two months is, like, Christmas on the moon.
Hey, where do you think Santa lives? After Top Gear drove to his house in a Hilux?
I remember being in 6th grade and faking sick so I could play this game for the like sixth time.
I loooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooove the FMV. Still do. Karl, Ian, Uncle Peter, Casey, Jen, Jules, Joanna, Tara, damon, Elise, Burke, Roland and WILLIAM.
The tension of being all alone and trying to take down burke in my badly damaged Mauler, but having a gauss rifle and LBX20 just punching holes in his bitch ass, the satisfaction of murdering Roland's dropship as he pathetically tries to escape, and then out maneuvering william with my 6 ERLL timber wolf.
I remembered all those characters off the top of my head. Could't do that with almost any other game.
And god the music. THAT MUSIC.
Mercs was a better game but vengeance had the best acting, cast, and story of any mech game. This was the game that got me invested in the lore in a way that 2 and 3 totally didn't. I now respect Davion and HATE Steiner. But I mean... Clan Care Bear and Danger Woof is where my loyalties truly lie
Multiplayer this series was so jank. Jump jets and large lasers everywhere. I only had a fighting chance in black knight, where I ran an uller with three flamers and an arty strike. I'd trigger their overheat and then TKO with an arty to the face. could take 3-5 mechs out a game that way.
One of the most fun challenge runs in the mechwarrior 4 franchise is to only run IS mechs and IS tech. the game gets SO much more challenging that way.
I preferred the mech design starting in 4. previous to that, I always thought battletech looked awful and amateur. like shit I'd draw as a little kid.
Great review once again.
best version of pulse lasers is MWO. pulse lasers are just lasers that pulse a bit to give the vaporized metal time to dissipate so it can punch through, not to mention they don't need to be on target for the same period of time to do comparable/more damage then normal lasers.
Also, Lore wise, Mechs can't just slap on whatever, they where limited to their hardpoints and their sizes. Omni mechs though, where more like, mix and match, you could take a part (say a Left torso and arm) from one Omni Mech variant and put it on the other.
best mech game i ever played
another great video ❤
Sweet, sweet content.
this is the best channel
I played this for free when they put it out for download on a torrent. It was two games and they were fun. The hard point system was hard to get used to, but fine once I did.
One more comment I forgot to add. When this game was released this was the best graphics of the day. There was no game that even came close in level of 3d. This was like a flight simulator in realism. And I remember seeing this game on display at harvey norman going wow!!! Dad check out the graphics *Jaw Dropped*. Thanks for the christmas present dad :)
I'm not sure if those missiles in the Intro are LRMs.........they could be Arrrow IVs instead.
www.sarna.net/wiki/Arrow_IV_Artillery
They can wreck a 45 ton Shadowcat easily, hell even a 90 Ton Mauler can be taken down in two direct hits, as mentioned in the first Camacho's Caballeros novel.
And Katrina Steiner is actually Katherine Steiner-Davion.........Victor's Sister! Minor detail but an important one.
Also she was his co regent for the Lyran Half of the Federated Commonwealth and then in 3057 took the Lyran Part out over the whole Incident with Joshau Marik, or rather that was her pretext.
The in 3060-3062-ish she basically pushed out Yvonne Steiner-Davion, her Sister, who had been Victor's Regent, while he was away fighting the Clans.
By making her a Steiner and him a Davion, you make it sound like she either was one of the many Steiner Cousins, and god knows the Steiners have enough of them, and they do like to play their intrigues, or worse, make it look like they were actually married.
So in short you could've said: "In the real Battletech Univser Katrina Steiner, born Katherine Steiner Davion, seized power from her Brother Victor by pushing out her sister Yvonne Steiner-Davion who had been Victor's Regent. That way she gained power over the Federated Suns part of the Federated Commonwealth, after she had taken over the Lyran part of the Commonwealth in 3057.
Good points on the weapons, and especially on the Mechs, yeah there were too many Clan Mechs.
I mean in most cases the individual mechwarriors had Clan tech but rarely weapons, Archer Cristifori for example only had two ER Large Lasers of his Penetrators being Clan tech.........and he was a damn recipient of the Star League Medal of Honour, one of only two from Operation Bulldog.
As for the Pulse lasers, I think the MW4 and MWO version is a bit more canon, as in measured bursts hitting a target, but overall the MW3 ones work a bit better for hitting fast moving targets.
It's partially why I kept them, to hunt for Elementals.
The MWO ones are kinda good at doing damage at hitting fast lights but, they are still very problematic. ;)
I was originally thinking we did not need another retread of the same Issues I had with the MW4 mechbuilding system and the Hardpoints, and nterestingly you echo some of my problems, as in the inability to build proper canon builds.
Unlike Gallen Dugal, overall I lost more than I gained in that system.
However you still repeat some of the errors of before, not all variants are factory differences, quite a few, especially in the old Succession war era were field Mods or basically "Frankenmechs".
Second problem still is the Madcat aka Timber Wolf is an Omni, so all it's hardpoints should be omni.
www.sarna.net/wiki/Timber_Wolf_(Mad_Cat)
That would truly show the advantage of an Omni-Mech over a standard Battlemech.
I would also disagree that the System is not Perfect at all, as you state one can see easily what one is up against and has certain weakspots to shoot at.
We have the same in MWO, where everybody knows where the Atlas's AC is or the Hunchback's AC so everybody shoots their right torso.
Now in a System like MW3 or MW2 you could easily foil such tactics by placing the Cannon in the other Torso, which keeps the enemy more on their toes, and does neither make your nor their job to easy.
Especially in MWO this makes certain mechs absolutely Obsolete, like the TDR-9SE almost all weapons in the Left Torso, guess where everybody is shooting at.
So the system seems brilliant at first glance, but that doesn't hold up in long term play.
Very good point on the movement, it just felt wrong and lacked Inertia.
It's one of the really great things in MW3, that every mech felt different to control and they even felt different in the same weightclass, an Annihilator was notably more sluggish than a Daishi and not just in speed.
Definate good poin on the Music, the MW4 music was definately better than MW3.
And I agree skip to MW4 Mercs.......it is the best one of the MW4s and the only which I enjoyed somewhat.
This is an old video, so I'm sure you either know this by now or don't care any more. But pulse lasers are repeated blasts in canon; an energy machine gun rather than a continuous beam. Mechwarrior 2 handled this aspect the best.
I think mw4 vengeance is one of the best mechwarrior games and i liked the cinematics
11:30 - "Or you'll pelt a scout mech with a dozen flights of missles from an LRM 20 and it barely does a scratch."
Well that's what you get for going head-to-head with a Steiner Scout Lance.
best intro ever
I'll have you know i love the watermelon on legs
The hard point system was a good idea but it could have been done better, at least with the Omni-mechs. My biggest complaint with the story is that it removed AFGANCAAP which is one of my favorite tropes. I think it gives you better immersion into the story because it makes it feel like it's YOU! in that mech doing the fighting.
Great as always. I agree the hard point system added something special to this game. I never really cared for the unlimited customizing of the previous games. Balance between classes still stunk and MW4 was still a race to the assaults but slightly less so than the previous titles.
Finally, another episode from the series I actually like on this channel.
The Vengance Engine Mech games are the best in my opinion, the only thing I miss is the arm-control from MW3.
My music teacher from 7th grade gave me all the Mechwarrior 4 games one day. Mostly because he hoped if I played Mech4, I'd stop doodling Mechs in my sheet music. If that was his goal, then he failed.
I like the Uziel. :P
I feel kind of attacked because I like the Uziel 😂 one of my favorite mechs in Battletech is the Blackjack and a black with ppc's just feels so right.
the fast movement is more accurate to the lore, battlemechs are not powered by crude hydraulics and pistons, they are run by artificial muscle and are hooked directly into the mechwarioirs nervous system via the neural helmet, a veteran MechWarrior can move their mech limbs as if they were their own.
Actually this is my favorite
I knew the acting was bad , but I enjoyed the Cinematics. I remember playing this, black knight and Mercenaries over and over with a Joystick, and I was good with it. The dual thumb sticks for Gen. X .
Vengeance was the first "real" videogame I ever played at the tender age of 7 and it has been a favorite ever since. To this day I have no idea how I finished the game multiple times, considering english is my second language but I chalk it up to precociousness.
Strangely enough Uziel is my favorite mech but I've never seen anyone else enjoy it :/
I've been waiting for this one for so long! This was the first MechWarrior game I played as a kid (although I did also get to play 3 not too long after) so it's nice to see it get some attention.
Also thank god I'm not the only one who actually likes the hardpoint system.
As far as lasers and ballistics go, I think they were handled best in 3, but overall my favorite entry in the series is MechWarrior 4: Mercenaries (albeit I don't enjoy it nearly as much without the Mektek modifications).
I look forward to hearing your thoughts on the next ones!
PS: Are you planning on talking about MW:O at some point as well?
Mechwarrior games are apocryphal, meaning that everything is canon unless directly contradicted by other canon material. Most of Mechwarrior 4: Vengeance's story is canon. The majority of its non-canon elements are the mech variants we see and the dropships that are used.
Nice to see someone can run mw 4 in Windows 10... I have tried couple weeks to get it run without succes. I have givenup hope to get it work. And sorry for bad english :/
Damn. I played this game 20 years ago 😂
Good to hear this one just works on Windows. I've wanted to get into mech games for a little while now, but the amount of tweaking to get them to maybe perhaps kind of work put me off. Even Shattered Steel on GoG requires some minor tweaking to get working as the collision detection is broken. I might pick this one up at some point. Here's hoping it plays nice with external disc drives, or there's a no-cd patch for the game.
As for the customization, having not played any Mechwarrior game aside from the SNES game I can't say for sure, but from what you describe, I agree with you on the customization. Games like Armoured Core have lots of customization, but that just leads to min maxing. Either the game is balanced around good builds, meaning that for practical purposes all of those hundreds of parts are worthless as only a dozen or so actually matter, or the game is balanced around average play, meaning it's possible to breeze through the game with the right builds.
This game was the best in the series!
Stepped in some Steiner.
I joined the fray with MW3, and i still miss other sophisticated mechanics like knocking mechs down with a lot of AC hits,
or just knocking yourself down firing twin AC20s.
"Gyro overload" :D
What still puzzles me are the jumpy cockpit animations,
a warmachine that well developed should keep the combat at level,
while moving to keep the aim accurate.
Ok the events leading to the game's plot are canon. Victor gets briefed on what happened to Ian's father Eric during the novel Patriots' and Tyrants and earlier in the novel its revealed he went to the Duke of the Draconis March (The Federated Suns region next to the Kurita ruled Draconis Combine) complaining about some of Katrina's actions but the Duke was so focused on Kurita that he blew him off. Didn't the game's events get mentioned in the Fedcom Civil War sourcebook? (My copy is in storage ATM so I can't confirm.)
And I agree the number of Clan designed Mechs in the games seems high but then again it takes place more then a decade after the initial invasion. Plus there's all the ones looted when Clan Smoke Jaguar fell, any claimed as war prizes or salvaged from raids on the clan Occupation zones and the Wolf Dragoon's mercenary unit, former Clan scouts, can produce Clan Mechs that they have blueprints for. That being said I think there is too much of a focus on Clan mechs in the heavy and assault classes in this game, and there are some clan Mechs included are new enough they should be very rare in non-Clan hands.
I prefer the laser system from 3 and the missile system from 2. I don't hate the hardpoint system but I think they needed a larger mech inventory as part of the base game if they wanted this to be accepted. I like Inner Sphere Heavy class energy boats but here all I can use is clan mechs because I can't tweak any of the Inner Sphere Heavies to a configuration I like and I feel that is what causes a lot of the hate for the system. Not the idea itself but the combination of the hardpoint system and the limited variety of mechs in the game.
I loved mechwarrior 3; I got mechwarrior 4 with excitement but I was disappointed. The only thing I remember hating is the controls.
B movie intro... It is good they fixed that with the newest Battletech game that feels more epic.
To answer why steiner had access to clan mechs after the wars, katrina steiner and the khan of clan wolf had a relationship (solace romance and shit ) and because of that, she got access to clan mechs and tech.
Love Uziel.
I like the Uziel.
Are we using "revengeance" in our everyday dialogue now? If so, I'm joining in.
Shit son, I took my revengeance out on some chicken wings tonight.
Just beat this game, beat Mech 3 sometime last week. Both are awesome games! I pretty much agree with everything you said, except I didn't mind the tougher mechs so much. I prefer the pulse lasers from Mech 3, but other than that, the weapons are a good upgrade overall from M3. They feel punchier and more powerful, despite mechs being tougher overall. And I agree the story was terrible. They flanderized the bad guys and made the lighting in their rooms darker for absolutely no reason other than to make them look sinister. It's would be kinda funny, if it weren't so boring. In general I'm less interested in the Inner Sphere than the Clans. Good review!
I am indifferent to the difference in missiles in most of these games. I think MechWarrior 2 looked the coolest, but they all function pretty similarly. Lasers were probably best in MechWarrior 3, though I disagree with their interpretation of pulse lasers. Correct me if I am wrong, but I believe they are described pretty much how they acted in MechWarrior 2. I know you're not counting MechWarrior: Online in this, but I would say that has done the absolute best pulse laser so far. Kind of a mix of all of them. Autocannons sounded the coolest in MechWarrior 2, although they did not work. I thought they were fairly underwhelming in the following iterations. Once again, I think this was something MW:O has done really well.
Given that small pulse lasers function identically to machine guns when used against infantry, I'd have to imagine standard pulse lasers are functionally laser machine-guns.
I played this for a long time