Open TH-cam, Thorin has another 1 hour video, click, starts off with a summary of complex analytical theory my college professors would orgasm to in their sleep. Please, Thorin, don't ever stop pumping out content. Came for CS knowledge, subbed for constant enlightenment. Also rip beard.
Hey Thorin, thanks for the video! I really like your thoughts on the topic, considering I don't follow CS:GO a lot (just playing casually). Continue your videos, I'll watch all of them. I hope to see you at one point in my life to tell you how awesome you are!
I dont even watch CS (only exception: X Games Aspen Event, until now at least), but I really enjoy watching someone go this deep into ESports and talk about certain topics and aspects.
Thorin, your videos are always conclusive in that you cover everything relative to the topic you discuss and give sufficient examples (most of the time). Keep your videos this way and ignore the fucktards who tell you to shorten your videos at the cost of leaving out examples & being less conclusive.
I've redefined the roles as: Entry-Fragger -> Dragon Fruit: Fierce, dangerous! Secondary Fragger -> Pineapple: A bit tougher, but sticky prickly! Lurker -> Squash Sits in waiting! Awper -> Asparagus: Long and pointy! In-Game Leader -> Cauliflower: Look at that big bulbous brain!
on the 5 carry players topic, there's only been one team in CSGO I can think of that has tried that. At one point, Flipsid3 had a lineup of Schneider, MODDII, cENTRYZ, Twist, and Pyth. The only player that could really be thought of as a hybrid player (imo) would be Pyth, considering the other 4 have all been stars/carries in their older teams. That Flipsid3 lasted like 2 weeks after failing really badly in some FaceIt qualifiers.
I like your idea of defining roles, however I do not think that you should mix up the IGL with a support player or middle man, because you can't clearly stick the role to one of them (and even more: theoretically everybody or even the coach might be the IGL). Additionally, as roles are conceptionalized in psychology, you wouldn't necessarily assume that a player does only play one (social) role and the specific role of IGL should be compatible with all other roles. I wonder, however, in what way the ingame roles influence the outer game roles of the group
Thooorin Breakdown on the latest Na'Vi? GuardiaN: Carry Edward: Carry Flamie: Half-Carry (Can go nuts) Seized: Half-Carry (Probably more supportive style) Zeus: Support (but then again Dust II) Agree? Thoughts? Will they win any of the upcoming major with this lineup?
I think kioshima was more like a half-carry. Hence why they lacked fire-power, even thought they did have some good team-play at times and on specific maps.
Thooorin I remember you talked about that Pentagram/Poles team from CS 1.6 which had only 1 legit carry, Neo, and 1 Half-carry, TaZ but managed to win many majors. How could they do that ? Is there any different mechanics between GO and 1.6 that makes the game more or less individual performance ?
A german super team comprised from once 3 semi-decent teams in the german scene that couldn't compete with EU. krystal, denis, spiidi (berzerk / penta), troubley and nex from Planetkey Dynamics. Also, not much of their history is even interesting as the spark to ignite the creation of Penta, was the ultimate fail of Berzerk's line-up to go out of the group in any event. Planetkey dynamics has been known as the better german team for a long time, something they showed during DHW and ESWC and mousesports were the online gods. Literally, anything noteworthy of german scene is yet to be seen as this current Penta line-up actually looks very good.
I'm a long time CS player, played 1.6 all throughout when I was in high school and Source after when that came out, haven't played in awhile until I started playing CS:GO recently. Never really watched CS eSports like I did LoL but starting to watch a bunch more CS:GO now, curious why it seems hostage rescue maps i.e. assault/office aren't played competitively? Is there a reason for that?
5 Things I learned after watching this for 55 minutes. 1. Thoorin shaved his bear again. ("oh well") 2. There are positions in Counter-Strike 3. These has positions names 4. If there's support,support,support, support, carry as their lineup or carry, carry, carry, carry, support the team will suck, never good. The Ideal was to have 2 carrys och 2 half-carry/hybrid support, support. Also a team that could be good but never great was if you had 1 carry, 3 half-carry and 1 support. 5. I'm starting to doubt about being so cold in his house. He puts that on, so he has a reason to present you with his lovely scarf, which he loves so much [EDIT] The scarf looks great if you ask me.
He is right but i think that is often not 100% clear what Player plays what role in a certain game... i think they r often between 2 or even more roles depending on the game and the moment they r playing. It is not as easy as to say player x is always support and player y always entry...
I personally think that they fall towards the 2-2-1 setup with byali and snax being carry, neo and pasha as the hybrid and taz being support. They are weird because pasha and neo can have insane games where they drop 20-30 frags or byali and snax can have games where they barely break 15.
+WTFjusthappened129 the team is built around Snax+Pasha, rather than Byali. It's more so Pasha, because he's a very explosive player, who is heavily reliant on resources being given to him. When he goes big, he does more with more rather than more with less like 1.6 Neo could
Byali - carry but extremely Inconsistent Snaz - carry/hybrid but in more of a support role but still best player on team as he is the most consistent Pasca - support but can carry when he feels like it. Not necessarily inconsistent but he can go huge when needed Neo - support usually very good player and very consistent but isn't rally the carry type anymore Taz - support loose igl meh More of a loose team in terms of roles as every player has the ability to carry their team this is however due to other players being more inconsistent
The 5-0 teams are those teams that get stomped on in pugs and more commonly in matchmaking games - either no one knows how to think and the team just blindly plays wherever they feel like or the team is bickering over how to play, blaring out their own ability to hear, and being snuck up on constantly. Those are the major stumbling blocks. With no "carries" (I prefer "tops" or "stars"), there is literally no firepower, and the other team is going to steamroll onto sites or completely stiffarm out of sites - with no "supports" their going to lack tactics and end up with but basic strats and calls.
How about "Trader" as the term for the 2nd entry fragger. I like it because lets be honest, a majority of the time, the entry fragger will die, even if he does kill an enemy first. So the 2nd man in has the job of trading the entry player, thus enabling the full take of the site. :)
@vvvortic CS is NOT a Rip off of CoD and the other way round too. CS first was released as a Mod in the 90s where CoD was released 2001 first. CS is a Tactical Shooter and CoD is a non-eSportsBASED game
Fnatic is the best team in the world right now in terms of they have the best players in their particular roles however I do think nV are the most talented team in the world but lack the structure or solid roles within their team to consistently be the top team in the world but on on pure fragging ability they can be the best team in the world easily if all their players are going off. To get to that level though they need to define their roles a bit more and have a lot more focus on strategic team play and working together and communicating as a unit which may require one of their star players to step down and become more dedicated at igl or support but can then also become that hybrid carry player. Or perhaps they can distribute some if these qualities or responsibilities to certain players so they can be more of a cohesive unit rather than confine players into certain roles
What about a team of hybrids? I feel like a team like clg vaguely fits this role. Maybe they wouldn't all be .5's on the scale you have created but none i would say are full carries and none are full supports.
Thoorin, can we AA PG Competitive players get you to cover our game a bit? Seriously, its a great game, the elements of competition are there, we could use some PR i guess lol.
Not to criticise, just a suggestion a small intro would be beneficial in my view. It feels a little jarring to jump straight into what almost feels like mid sentence. That may just be a stylistic thing, though. Great discussion piece as always on a topic I've been interested in understanding better for a while.
I have seen thorin for years coming from 1.6 myself. He doesn't give two shits about fame, intros, outtros, music, he just likes to talk and get his ideas out. I like it this way, straight to the point with no bullshit.
I personally really like this the way it is. So many channels waste so much time before a video with bloody introductions. With Thorin the video starts and he is immediately discussing the topic. You call it jarring I call it efficient.
Also I feel I should make it clear, I wasn't asking for some flashy musical intro, just waiting a couple of seconds from pressing record to starting speaking if that makes sense. Anyway, many of you seem to disagree so I may well hold the minority viewpoint.
Trying to cram CS roles into LOL/Dota terms is not the right way to go. Especially considering the start where you were explaining that it's important to have language that explains what you mean properly. Carry is too general a role because if you have multiple lurkers, they are potential carries but if you don't have an entry player, then you're not going to get onto the site and win rounds. Also, based on your number system, a team of 5 hybrids also produces the 2.5 split that you think is ideal but I doubt that a team like that is going to stand a real chance against top tier teams that have more varied role divisions.
Do you even pay like electricity or gas bills? Why are you wearing coast and scarfs indoors? And i live in the UK aswell and its not as cold as it seems..
Who is this man? The Thorin I know has a giant beard and looks vaguely homeless.
I don't know ,but he stole Thorin's voice. BEARD OR RIOT!
Yeah grow your beard back Thorin asap
I love homeless thoorin
To be fair, he still looks homelessesque.
m8 Thorin's oakensheild is dead :(
RIP THORIN'S MIGHTY BEARD
oh god.
First Rick in the walking dead and now this shit.
Why would he do that!?
Open TH-cam, Thorin has another 1 hour video, click, starts off with a summary of complex analytical theory my college professors would orgasm to in their sleep. Please, Thorin, don't ever stop pumping out content. Came for CS knowledge, subbed for constant enlightenment. Also rip beard.
Would love to see an update on the concept after 6 years
I like that your go-to move for dissenters (41:19) was the robot.
something has changed... but i cant quiet figure out what ....
He looks like Fifflarren, thats whats changed
Tirion fording lol. rly
FLASH# trinity Look at him, look at at Fiffy. Identical, Thorin just doesn't have as beautiful hair.
Get Taz in and make him explain the roles in his team :P.
This is lost on me can you explain?
First Rick and now Thorin.
Rip beards :(
I read the title as "Poles in Counter-Strike"
15 minutes in, I'm like wtf is he rambling about, where is the talk about poles
Cannot unsee ski goggle face tan:D Hope you had fun on your vacation.
As someone who is trying to get into CS these videos are really useful. Thanks Thorin.
Hey Thorin, thanks for the video! I really like your thoughts on the topic, considering I don't follow CS:GO a lot (just playing casually). Continue your videos, I'll watch all of them. I hope to see you at one point in my life to tell you how awesome you are!
what about a team with 5 in game leaders
I love listening to these Thoughts while I'm playing a casual game :)
I dont even watch CS (only exception: X Games Aspen Event, until now at least), but I really enjoy watching someone go this deep into ESports and talk about certain topics and aspects.
Thorin, your videos are always conclusive in that you cover everything relative to the topic you discuss and give sufficient examples (most of the time). Keep your videos this way and ignore the fucktards who tell you to shorten your videos at the cost of leaving out examples & being less conclusive.
Hey Thorin, Could you possibly make a second video of this with all these new age teams and crazy roster changes?
agreed
Ah yes another video from my favorite Facebook novelist and winter-wear model!
I've redefined the roles as:
Entry-Fragger -> Dragon Fruit:
Fierce, dangerous!
Secondary Fragger -> Pineapple:
A bit tougher, but sticky prickly!
Lurker -> Squash
Sits in waiting!
Awper -> Asparagus:
Long and pointy!
In-Game Leader -> Cauliflower:
Look at that big bulbous brain!
Very interesting video and I think Thorin has a really good way of explaining things.
Keep it up!
on the 5 carry players topic, there's only been one team in CSGO I can think of that has tried that. At one point, Flipsid3 had a lineup of Schneider, MODDII, cENTRYZ, Twist, and Pyth. The only player that could really be thought of as a hybrid player (imo) would be Pyth, considering the other 4 have all been stars/carries in their older teams. That Flipsid3 lasted like 2 weeks after failing really badly in some FaceIt qualifiers.
You basically outlined some of Wittgenstein's philosophy in the first 1:30 lol
RIP Thorin's Beard.
DHW 2014 - Just before ESL Katowice 2015..
RIP sweet prince.
A standing ovation for our fallen comrade, brothers.
Rip Thorin's Majestic Facial 'Beard' Hair, 2015
The last couple of seconds I cant help but feel like it was directed at Semphis? :D
Very useful video, tinkered with my teams setup after this
Just subbed. Your impressivly intelligent in the CS field. I look forward to your future thoughts :-)
I like your idea of defining roles, however I do not think that you should mix up the IGL with a support player or middle man, because you can't clearly stick the role to one of them (and even more: theoretically everybody or even the coach might be the IGL).
Additionally, as roles are conceptionalized in psychology, you wouldn't necessarily assume that a player does only play one (social) role and the specific role of IGL should be compatible with all other roles.
I wonder, however, in what way the ingame roles influence the outer game roles of the group
Thooorin Breakdown on the latest Na'Vi?
GuardiaN: Carry
Edward: Carry
Flamie: Half-Carry (Can go nuts)
Seized: Half-Carry (Probably more supportive style)
Zeus: Support (but then again Dust II)
Agree? Thoughts? Will they win any of the upcoming major with this lineup?
Hi Thorin, what about Shoxilon ? 1 carry and 4 supports ? :D
I think kioshima was more like a half-carry. Hence why they lacked fire-power, even thought they did have some good team-play at times and on specific maps.
Thooorin
I remember you talked about that Pentagram/Poles team from CS 1.6 which had only 1 legit carry, Neo, and 1 Half-carry, TaZ but managed to win many majors.
How could they do that ? Is there any different mechanics between GO and 1.6 that makes the game more or less individual performance ?
Good video Thorin, first in a few weeks I have thoroughly enjoyed :)
Great video, helped me learn about CS!
wow i am watching this video now and he was totaly right about TSM...this man is crazy good
i wanted to start a drinking game every time thorin touches his nose but i cant even drink water that fast
Do a video on Penta esports I dont know anything about them!!
Philipp Rösler No lol
A german super team comprised from once 3 semi-decent teams in the german scene that couldn't compete with EU. krystal, denis, spiidi (berzerk / penta), troubley and nex from Planetkey Dynamics. Also, not much of their history is even interesting as the spark to ignite the creation of Penta, was the ultimate fail of Berzerk's line-up to go out of the group in any event. Planetkey dynamics has been known as the better german team for a long time, something they showed during DHW and ESWC and mousesports were the online gods. Literally, anything noteworthy of german scene is yet to be seen as this current Penta line-up actually looks very good.
listening to this at 1.25x speed makes it better for watching many many many many many many many more thorins thoughts.
Last week's tangerine dream was interesting but I'm glad your white balance has wondered back toward neutral.
I'm a long time CS player, played 1.6 all throughout when I was in high school and Source after when that came out, haven't played in awhile until I started playing CS:GO recently. Never really watched CS eSports like I did LoL but starting to watch a bunch more CS:GO now, curious why it seems hostage rescue maps i.e. assault/office aren't played competitively? Is there a reason for that?
Could you make a video about the Uk Scene?
Maybe especially about RattlesnK, RE1EASE and
Weber and their attempts at CS:GO?
Thank You.
get beard or get rekt
why doesnt he have an intro? he just randomly starts talking. it is pretty weird if you ask me
I click on the video, and it gets straight to the content. Doesn't seem random to me.
Most intros are unnecessary.
Shane Walsh
definitely prefer this, watched two eps of trash talk and just found myself skipping through the intro and break lol
gods don't need to obey the laws of mortal men
Thooorin That ego, though a joke, some of it is real
Hey Thooorin maybe have the timestamps in the description showing where you start talking about each role? :D
I always called the second entry the "clean-up fragger", I thought everyone did.
completely unrelated, thorin do you know korean? Anion haseyo
No, but it looks like you don't either :>
the burn has been delivered
ever tried the cream of sum yun gui?
+ukra bro i kno korean
ntxLVLnoob wat
I think the GGWP line up did try the 5 carry-team at one point. Needless to say what happened.
I rarely watch podcasts but yours i like. maybe it's the accent.
so glad you do what you do
is this thorin's baby
5 Things I learned after watching this for 55 minutes.
1. Thoorin shaved his bear again. ("oh well")
2. There are positions in Counter-Strike
3. These has positions names
4. If there's support,support,support, support, carry as their lineup or carry, carry, carry, carry, support the team will suck, never good. The Ideal was to have 2 carrys och 2 half-carry/hybrid support, support. Also a team that could be good but never great was if you had 1 carry, 3 half-carry and 1 support.
5. I'm starting to doubt about being so cold in his house. He puts that on, so he has a reason to present you with his lovely scarf, which he loves so much
[EDIT] The scarf looks great if you ask me.
He is right but i think that is often not 100% clear what Player plays what role in a certain game... i think they r often between 2 or even more roles depending on the game and the moment they r playing. It is not as easy as to say player x is always support and player y always entry...
Do u have new glasses? Something is different.
And what is Vp for a team? Carry, support, half carry? Can't figure it out
I personally think that they fall towards the 2-2-1 setup with byali and snax being carry, neo and pasha as the hybrid and taz being support. They are weird because pasha and neo can have insane games where they drop 20-30 frags or byali and snax can have games where they barely break 15.
+WTFjusthappened129 the team is built around Snax+Pasha, rather than Byali. It's more so Pasha, because he's a very explosive player, who is heavily reliant on resources being given to him. When he goes big, he does more with more rather than more with less like 1.6 Neo could
MrDaniiYY Pasha & Snax = carry, Byali = hybrid, Taz & Neo = support
Byali - carry but extremely Inconsistent
Snaz - carry/hybrid but in more of a support role but still best player on team as he is the most consistent
Pasca - support but can carry when he feels like it. Not necessarily inconsistent but he can go huge when needed
Neo - support usually very good player and very consistent but isn't rally the carry type anymore
Taz - support loose igl meh
More of a loose team in terms of roles as every player has the ability to carry their team this is however due to other players being more inconsistent
The 5-0 teams are those teams that get stomped on in pugs and more commonly in matchmaking games - either no one knows how to think and the team just blindly plays wherever they feel like or the team is bickering over how to play, blaring out their own ability to hear, and being snuck up on constantly. Those are the major stumbling blocks. With no "carries" (I prefer "tops" or "stars"), there is literally no firepower, and the other team is going to steamroll onto sites or completely stiffarm out of sites - with no "supports" their going to lack tactics and end up with but basic strats and calls.
RIP the famous Thorin beard.
Thorin would make a good male model. He already has the hand movements down.
First Rick shaves his beard and now thooorin, the world is crumbling
18:20 what about de_dust ?
How about "Trader" as the term for the 2nd entry fragger. I like it because lets be honest, a majority of the time, the entry fragger will die, even if he does kill an enemy first. So the 2nd man in has the job of trading the entry player, thus enabling the full take of the site. :)
To be honest, I hope there will be a video about shazham from C9
Nice shave man, looks civilized
@vvvortic CS is NOT a Rip off of CoD and the other way round too. CS first was released as a Mod in the 90s where CoD was released 2001 first. CS is a Tactical Shooter and CoD is a non-eSportsBASED game
inb4 we see thorin w/ a full beard at kato
*****
aww :'(
Thorin wasn't invited to Katowice last I heard. He made some pretty rude comments toward the Polish people a while back.
Virtus.Pro type? 4 semis and support? ;)
Thoorin touched his nose over 300 times in this video.
Duncan,you would have a great couch for a CS team
RIP: The Beard
Guys don't worry this video was recorded 10 years ago.
Dota use numbers. from 1 (being the most important) to 5 (being the most supportish) I really like it.
Can someone tell me why he always wear clothes in his House/Apartment?
he lives on the north pole
Because humans in normal civilization tend to be clothed when at home.
I think because he lives in Korea where it is normal to not have indoor heating.
Lollaffers Thorin is actually Santa? :D
You're awesome, keep up the good fucking work, mate
Fnatic is the best team in the world right now in terms of they have the best players in their particular roles however I do think nV are the most talented team in the world but lack the structure or solid roles within their team to consistently be the top team in the world but on on pure fragging ability they can be the best team in the world easily if all their players are going off. To get to that level though they need to define their roles a bit more and have a lot more focus on strategic team play and working together and communicating as a unit which may require one of their star players to step down and become more dedicated at igl or support but can then also become that hybrid carry player. Or perhaps they can distribute some if these qualities or responsibilities to certain players so they can be more of a cohesive unit rather than confine players into certain roles
What about a team of hybrids? I feel like a team like clg vaguely fits this role. Maybe they wouldn't all be .5's on the scale you have created but none i would say are full carries and none are full supports.
I don't even watch counter strike I just come for Thorin trolling lol.
What about VP what's there set up?
I thought that markeloff and s1mple went to flipsid3 tactics?
Thoorin, can we AA PG Competitive players get you to cover our game a bit? Seriously, its a great game, the elements of competition are there, we could use some PR i guess lol.
Who's this new guy doing Thorin's videos ? hopefully this isn't a regular thing.
No friberg at banana? Never forget the King of Banana Thooorin
plx never shave man
Why do you wear a coat inside? Don't you turn on the heating?
The secondary Entry usually top frags because he baits his teammate :D
Is the A site closer to T-spawn or CT-spawn?
CT
Than I *did* make my map right! : )
+Bozocow every site is closer to ct
lol nub
We're talking relatively.
oh ok lol
Beard? the old thooorin, bad thooorin.
Why is Fifflaren doing videos about CS;GO theory?
i love you thorin !!!
What about 5 hybrids?
An ending! Like not an intro and outro, but he ended it not mid sentence!
Not to criticise, just a suggestion a small intro would be beneficial in my view. It feels a little jarring to jump straight into what almost feels like mid sentence. That may just be a stylistic thing, though. Great discussion piece as always on a topic I've been interested in understanding better for a while.
I have seen thorin for years coming from 1.6 myself. He doesn't give two shits about fame, intros, outtros, music, he just likes to talk and get his ideas out. I like it this way, straight to the point with no bullshit.
I personally really like this the way it is. So many channels waste so much time before a video with bloody introductions.
With Thorin the video starts and he is immediately discussing the topic. You call it jarring I call it efficient.
Fair enough, it's just my view, yours is different, his may be different. I like straight to the point, but it just feels mid sentence to me.
Also I feel I should make it clear, I wasn't asking for some flashy musical intro, just waiting a couple of seconds from pressing record to starting speaking if that makes sense. Anyway, many of you seem to disagree so I may well hold the minority viewpoint.
I actually enjoy that he just get's going right away. I don't like intros at all.. so I think that's completely subjective :/
why does he have a jacket indoors?
Shaving before inven AMA to look more polite.
Trying to cram CS roles into LOL/Dota terms is not the right way to go. Especially considering the start where you were explaining that it's important to have language that explains what you mean properly.
Carry is too general a role because if you have multiple lurkers, they are potential carries but if you don't have an entry player, then you're not going to get onto the site and win rounds.
Also, based on your number system, a team of 5 hybrids also produces the 2.5 split that you think is ideal but I doubt that a team like that is going to stand a real chance against top tier teams that have more varied role divisions.
Do you even pay like electricity or gas bills? Why are you wearing coast and scarfs indoors? And i live in the UK aswell and its not as cold as it seems..
What happened to thooorin? Who is this new guy
I waited for his beard to grow back through the video. Did not happen.
Thoughts on -SmithZZ +kennyS?
I don't think it would be a good idea, especially with how Happy seems to want to structure that team.
+Thooorin What now? ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)
+Darude Sanddoge but now they need -kio +shox
beard will be back in like half a week
Thooorin: Have you ever played CS:GO ?
What is that?
Thooorin rank?:)
Endless Torment
Platinum eagle supreme master 7.
Epic ending but the hellraisers example was where I laughed a lot. U really should first script this if u dont normally. And #bringbackthebeard
Is this Thorin or his son? Coz this guy looks at least 30 years younger than the usual Thorin!