Since there has never been a player who's been the GOAT in 1.6, source AND CS:GO, f0rest would win by default since he's had a 15 year career and consistantly stayed at the top throughout most of it. People who say that Coldzera or s1mple are the GOAT need to wait 10 years first.
@@rhaoth for that to be true it would have to mean that f0rest is the best player in the history of cs. atleast to me thats what goat means. it doesnt matter if he's had the best longevity in his career if there are players that were or are better than him. sure s1mple hasnt been the best over a long peiod of time but if in your opinion s1mple is better than anybody ever at their peak then that makes s1mple the goat.
@@usmn._.m That's the point though, that it's over the course of 3 different games' lifespans. So longevity directly matters, it's not the only thing, but it has a huge impact. In other sports, they have 50+ year histories. In E-sports, CS probably has the longest history of around 20 years at the most, not enough time has passed to have an answer to this question that will satisfy everyone. Like people are saying f0rest has maintained a pretty high level his entire career, and his career has been one of the longest if not THE longest in e-sports history I would assume, which makes him the obvious if not the only candidate for this question. Greatest of ALL time, not greatest right now, or the greatest 2 year stretch. Longevity definitely matters when talking GOAT, regardless what the topic is. But yeah, GOAT of all CS is a dumb question to ask right now because there can't be enough of a discussion when someone basically wins by default.
Let’s break that one down. Now, we have a few players contending for the top ratking. The first two who come to mind are Smooya and kNg. kNg ruined multiple careers. Game over kNg is the Ratking(or ratkNg , rather)
For me, GeT_RiGhT will always be the GOAT. Not primarily because of his achievements and skill, but because of the journey he's been through and his insane dedication to the game. Objectively, though, he probably isn't.
I don't think it's weird at all to build up a GOAT narrative in all of counter-strike. The game has always been essentially the same with minor adjustments to how competitive CS is played, you adapt through the patches and updates but all in all it's still the same game. It's not strange that 30 year old f0rest who has played about 15 years as a pro(and almost all of it at the highest level) is called the GOAT 20 years into the franchise. Because there's nothing saying all these great players in 1.6 couldn't have made it to GO, many of them were not older than f0rest. As a fact many greats quit CS in their early 20s. But he's still here, and they aren't, probably for a reason. If this was regular sports, f0rest might not have had the best points/game average ever, but he would for sure be leading the total career points list. f0rest right now is like a 40 year NHLer racking up 50 point seasons to boost his career credentials, like Joe Thornton. The heaviest lifting was done years ago, now he's just piling onto his all-time status. Give GO(or perhaps the sequel) another 5-10 years and what happened in 1.6 will start to diminish in the grand scheme of things and players who started their competitive career in GO, like s1mple, will start to be considered for GOAT status. Right now though, it's about f0rest, neo and Get_right.
muk as No... just no you have your good players but One of the greatest of all time are players who’s have been good for a long period of time, for example I’d consider niko one because he’s always been insane and one of the best players, but I wouldn’t consider Stewie2K one because he’s been good, but not for a long enough time. I used this comparison cause one had a major and one doesn’t. Same thing applies to someone like adren vs shox.
Why do people feel the need to make a fantasy narrative when the real one is already sick. F0rest and Get_Right are two of the greatest players to touch their respective games, and now they're the old veterans, who are bringing up the young talent, who now and again have a flashback game.
I am also a fan of f0rest and I have seen his games since cs 1.6 and he has been consistent most of his cs career. The point of being considered the G.O.A.T player is right in my opinion for us who followed him since the beginning. And to those players (device or simple etc) who are playing better in cs go, there will be others who will say this same GOAT things for them after next 10 years if they performed consistently. So let's have us our time and chill, yours will come.😀😎😎😏
@@grad5257 reactions? very reaction based game, and you slow down with age, its a fact, your peak is 26 on average for male adults. most likely because the brain is fully developed at 25 among males, it all go down from there.
I understand what Thoorin says but if we disregard f0rest since he is the closest to being GOAT but had peaks and lows, then no one can be the GOAT of cs. If a new player that was 10x better than s1mple came into the scene today, he would not be the goat of cs since he wasnt around when cs 1.6 or source was the successor. From the pool of players to pick from today, f0rest is the goat. GOAT means “Greatest”, you dont need to be insanely amazing, you just need to be better than the rest collectively.
@@corbens_ but goat means goat. ..theres players who were better than him in 1.6 but fell off or didnt transition to csgo. There are players in csgo better than him but who werent as dominant as him in 1.6. You measure greatness by longevity and dominance not how long you were ranked number 1 for (due to players having short term peaks or changes to the game) that player is f0rest, was insane during 1.6 and go.he is not the best 1.6 player or the best go player he is the best counter strike player.
Being the GOAT isn't about being good or being a top player. It is about being greater than others. Very few say forest was an all-time top player, and the point is, there's no such player. So if f0rest has the best consistency, etc overall despite not being a top player it still makes him the goat, I guess.
I think you have to Distinguish between consistency and peak. So there should be a G. O. A. T. for consistency and one for the peak. Forest ist my consistency goat
Monty De Santa he’s not consistent, this is something everyone says but it makes no sense. In 1.6 he was extremely good throughout, and in csgo he has gone from good at the start, and all the way down to terrible troughs, literally the opposite of consistent
The argument that the GOAT must've been the greatest at a single point in his career is compelling, but isn't airtight. Let's suppose that Sidney Crosby had played from 1980-1995. Let's also suppose that peak Bobby Orr had played 1980-1985, peak Wayne Gretzky had played 1985-1990 and peak Mario Lemieux 1990-1995. I think we'd mostly agree that Crosby would've been the 2nd best player in the league for 15 years straight, yet never the best in any given year. Still, would I rather have 15 years of Crosby, or 5 years of any of the previous three (the three best players ever, IMO)? I'd take Crosby in a heartbeat. --- In real life, If I had a single game to play, I'd pick Orr and Lemieux ahead of Gretzky, but there's no denying that Gretzky had, by far, the best career. I think that Orr and Lemieux are the greatest players, but I think Gretzky had the greatest career. I'm not saying that f0rest is at the level of Gretzky, but there's a case to be made for aggregate consistency to have a higher worth than a short peak.
Nope there is no GOAT cuz a lot of players didnt transition from 1.6 and source to GO so you would have to seperate between the versions of CS, extreme example you cant say there is a greatest athlete ever like say, oh pele is the best because he was the best football player ever but say micheal jordan is the greatest basketball player, who is better?
Julian well by your logic there is a goat, just not of a overarching field but of a specific field. Like Thor in days not goat of cs but there is a goat of cs 1.6
Hhmm.., I usually say this about CS in general as a "family": Heaton is the father of cs1.6 (in terms of leadership) Potti is the mother of cs1.6 (in terms of fertile gameplay and frags) Neo is the "left" star of cs1.6 (in terms of fame and performances) Get_Right is the "right" star of cs1.6 Forest is the godfather of CS in general because he re-invented the fire in the CS by being the sustainable bridge between 1.6 and CSGO. As for CSGO, 1.6 and franchise's GOAT, simply such rich reality cannot be supressed in one title. There is no Michael Jordan of CS. At least not yet... If s1mple had a kinder character or a more attractive persona , he could help himself become something like the "goat", but i believe reality is "s1mpl-er" .. ;)
I understand GOAT not olny based on stats. Its also consistency in being a relevant figure in the scene. CS:GO is entertainment, and forest is remembered as one of the most important pieces of entertainment throughout CS franchise.
Wouldn’t be such a triggering topic for so many people in the csgo community if people just said he has the greatest longevity, but it’s easier to say “GOAT” just like when people spam four shots with the deagle and call it a “one deag”. You kind of have to accept that people don’t observe their own use of language and what their words mean by definition vs what they “meant” to say in their minds. It’s the same reason why we don’t correct idiots that say double negatives like “I dont got none”. Again, most people do not take the time to stop and consider what their words mean. I think a lot of people would appreciate and benefit from a video series where you define the more ambiguous words used in discussions about esports, especially when it comes to discussions like these.
coldzera is the goat for me (at least in cs go) a goat has to win majors and hes the only superstar that won them and he had the most impact in the game during sk era
would it be better to say he's the best player too compete at the highest level in both games? i know its specific and only him and neo fit the category but thats the only narrative i can see and its when you compare him with neo.
I heard HenryG drop this comment on the major, was hoping you would weigh in. for me, you shouldn't mix and match. Olof, simple, cold and Seangares as an IGL category separately.
I get what you're saying, but f0rest is still GOAT of cs. Doesn't matter that there isn't anyone else contesting it, many would've loved to be able to contest it but they are not good enough. neo would've loved to be able to just keep that consistent level, same can be said for all the others that didn't transition to cs go like markeloff or delpan. f0rest is incredible and the fact he is the only one in his category does not change it, it reinforces it. The fact that he isn't comparable to top5 stars like niko or s1mple nowadays doesn't change the fact that he's still a solid tier1 player which can't be said for a lot of the much younger talent that struggle just to be tier2 (players like aizy, hobbit and michu). You made him sound like he was one of those tier2 or lower players, you really don't do him justice.
@lucky strike You're the delusional one if you don't consider f0rest a tier1 player. Hell he's been doing better than flamie, ropz and rain the past 6 months. If you don't consider any of these players tier1 you have a very special definition of a tier1 player which probably focuses on tier1 STARS entirely and neglects solid tier1 fraggers like f0rest (or fer, elige, krimz etc.).
I'd assume s1mple, because in the past he's made videos about his individual skill and how its probably the greatest peak anyone has ever achieved in csgo, and I don't think Thorin would rate Cold as high as s1mple.
There is a lot of 1.6 players that play CSGO though. I wouldn't say there goats but they played good. I do love forest though more then neo. Hes one of my favorite.
Neo was always the goat of 1.6, regarding the teams and talent they had around them and Neo achieving as much as f0rest did with his team skill cap being much lower
The greatest of altime should be like, if you had to choose one player for a series at their prime who do you pick? Cause for goat status longevity is important, but I favor a stronger and more dominant prime than longevity. I would pick a goat if they are the best player for at-least 3 years and top 3 or 5 for the majority of their career for (csgo). This goes different from other sports like bball where you have to be the best for like 6+ years. A great example is Micheal Jordan and lebron. MJ had a much more dominant prime and more impressive accomplishments. He was still very consistent, but Lebron had been playing at an high level just a season 2 two after his rookie year. But MJ is considered the GOAT just for how dominant he was in his prime. If you could choose forest or simple in a 3 game series 99% of people will pick simple. Even if its 15 to 14 and you’re down one, you would much rather have Simple than forest to win you a round. Crowing a goat in any competitive game should jot be that hard. If it is, it means there hasn’t been that player that just took the crown and no one questioned it. In league, there is no doubt that Faker is the GOAT. He was so dominant, but just running the eye test, you could see something special. And it was just for a year, it has been for the majority of his career. In bball karrem, Hakeem, Magic were all fighting for the top spot. People would go back and forth and it was split. But when MJ came on to the scene, and when you watched him. And how easily he just dominated these top athletes, it was incredible. He was undeniably the great of altime. I don’t think CS has had that one player that just dominated with such ease, like the Fakers and the Jordans of other games. There has been times were its kenny thats the best then the next year its cold. But not one that had an insane prime to be the top dog for many years.
"So he becomes some weird aggregate average GOAT" LOL, Poor f0rest! Poor dude, whenever I think about 1.6 greats I just get flashbacks of Neo defying physics in majors when the pressure was on, achieved more with less talent. Unfortunately for F0rest every time he's had a period of looking great there's also someone else that challenges his legitimacy.
finally i feel good that im not alone thinking that.... whenever i have a discussion with someone about f0rest it just feels they are literally just brainwashed and think he is the greatest ever.... its like whenever you say anything they will just reply something like naaah naah man he is insaaaane you cant even imagine if you look at him blah blah... like just shut up already what the hell
Great argument. As great as f0rest was in 1.6, neo was a better player, and he was never a top 5 player in CS:GO, yet somehow fanboys describe him as the G.O.A.T in CS as a whole. I don't understand their logic whatsoever.
If the logic being that f0rest is the GOAT because he was really good at one point in 1.6 and was still really good in CS:GO, surely GeT_RiGhT is the more logical choice for GOAT?
f0rest is arguably the best player in cs 1.6 and aarguably top5 all time in cs go. Get_Right is like arguably top5 in both games, probably top10 in cs go.
Interesting topic, totally agree with you Duncan. f0rest is definitely Hall of Fame material, but how do commentators come up with these theories? Just in this major Get_Right became the all-time leader in kills in CSGO. Given that all of f0rest's achievements have been earned along side Get_Right, how can people think he's better, when he doesn't have the collateral extra achievements like the above?
So if f0rest isn't the goat then who is? Can't be neo or else you just disregard cs go entirely in player rankings which is dumb. If you say there isn't one than that is much more understandable though. You're also massively underplaying how good f0rest was in 1.6. you say he's number 2 all time but as if that's a bad thing. There was a serious debate over f0rest or neo that continues to this day for the 1.6 goat. I understand you think it's neo, but f0rest has a serious argument that you wouldn't be stupid in believing in that you just seem to disregard, it was and still is very close.
he meant there has to be a goat for every version of the game. and csgo has been up for like 7 years and hadnt shown everything yet... so its a bit early to say who is the csgo goat. what do you mean if its not f0rest then who it is? unless you mean the goat of counter strike generally.. which is not really applicable in thorins opinion or doesnt make much sense to him which is understandable
Simply put, if f0rest and neo were joint goat for cs 1.6 (biggest cs era as of now) then we need to pick from both of them since they are still around. F0rest is still putting up numbers regardless of whether or not its streaky or sometimes average. If forest isnt goat, then who is?
I guess it depends on how you define goat, if its some type of highest compounding score I guess he could be. Lets just call him the GOMT - Greatest Of Most Time
To be a true goat, you need both longevity and peak. I don't even know if a player like that exists in CS. There's players with crazy longevity like forest, and some with crazy peaks like simple, but no player with both. So I don't think cs really has a definitive goat
Coldzera is the goat of cs go. 2 times hltv rank 1 Has won multiple majors. Most of the time he is the mvp of the tournament when his team wins. God in clutch situations. Lethal with every weapon type like awp, pistol and rifles. What else you need to become a goat of the game?
@lucky strike I did watch it, I just simply disagree with the sentiment of not being able to quantify CS as a franchise to lable someone the best of all time. When s1mple and NiKo have played for 15 years or more at the top level we can absolutely discuss if they've had a better career than f0rest no matter how many versions of CS they played.
Agree forest isnt the goat, but he is still an incredible talent with a super long career playing cs. His longevity is unmatched and his ability to always find his way back to a top player after a period of looking dog shit is impressive
Always keep in mind that people have different criteria for the "g.o.a.t.". One reason why poeple name him in this conversation is because he transcended the CS franchise. I know people, who do not play FPS games at all but still know the nickname f0rest / get right / neo /potti... It is like MJ in the 90´s. There were very few opportunities to watch NBA games, but literally every person knew michael jordan. Until you do not accept this as a possible reason why people still cheer for the old guys, you will keep making those videos and make fun of them (i.e. #fanlogic etc.). I personally cheer for them, because they are the last players i know back when i was playing cs a lot (playing since late 1999). Is forest the goat? Maybe yes maybe not, time will tell. But i have no doubt that a 20y old f0rest with today´s conditions (strong competetive scene, good pc´s etc.) would keep up with the simples and devices out there.
I mean the G.O.A.T title really is just a personal opinion thing. A lot of player consider f0rest the best player ever in cs 1.6 before your argument about neo came out anyway so using your logic f0rest for some people can still be consider the G.O.A.T. in cs.
It's also weird to even look for the "GOAT" for two different games at once. The reason a lot of the old GOAT candidates didn't transition to CSGO or just weren't nearly as good in CSGO, is because the games are so fucking different. Why would anyone look for the best player across two different titles like that? It's not like having been good at an old game makes any difference when it comes to your current ability anyway. If you're shit at the newest COD (No clue what it's called as I don't follow it at all..) for example, what difference does it make that you might have been good at COD2 in ~2006 or whatever? You could even have been the greatest player ever at COD2 but if you're not even close today, how does it make sense to talk about you as the GOAT? It just seems like someone desperately wants a way to call their favorite player "GOAT" honestly, they even decided to exclude Source to "make it fit". lol Some people just *really* want it to fit f0rest it seems. :P *If* there's even a way to make "GOAT" across multiple titles make any sense, obviously Source needs to be included as well, it's part of the franchise just like 1.6 and CSGO regardless of it being a less popular title. I don't personally think "Aggregate GOAT" makes any sense whatsoever but *if* someone else does, it certainly doesn't make sense not to include the game that came between 1.6 and CSGO.
@@atomix2623 well I mean he cant have been ass if htlv.org and thorin voted him the 7th and 4th best player of the year respectively could he? he was statistically and intangeably the best AWPer in the world that year, a top 3 player in the world for about 4 months and top fragged in his team to win 2 premier tournaments and 1 tier 2 tournament. of course he wasn't the best Kenny weve seen, but id argue if he had had a better igl than shox then he may have got back to his absolute peak form, and to say that an AWPer not at his best form is still the best AWPer in the world kinda speaks for itself.
ItsJonny did I not literally say kennyS is not the goat. He and device are both goat candidates, but if Kenny had been at least a top 5 player last year then I would consider him the goat, since he has had the highest skill peak in the game excluding s1mple, and has been consistently one of the worlds best AWPers up until recently
since he is the only top elite level 1.6 pro making top 20s and is still performing in CSGO, there is no arguing he is not the GOAT. there is literally no other candidate the problem is that ranking it that way is useless, he was arguably never the GOAT of either games separately, therefore naming him the GOAT sends the wrong message, and naming GOATs of 1.6 and CSGO separately is way more interesting
He's more similar to pele/maradona s1mple = messi,because both of them are a very amazing players but never win the highest competition (s1mple 0 major,messi 0 world cup )
Love the Video. Really need to agree here. BUUUUT (yes, theres always a but) i still love f0rest as a Player and Person - thats why i'm calling f0rest one of my top 5 "goats" (if you wanna say it like that)... but to be fair ...even fnx is in my personal top 5.... :) Thats why personal lists are so great...they don't need to be objectiv , they just need to right for yourself. I never argued with anyone whos the Real GOAT - for me its Potti, just because i loved his playstyle and his incredible "allround"- Talent. Heard People say it's s1mple, but i would say ..give him 1 more year on this level and i'm on board with that idea :D
"Stats are like a bikini." - Thorin, 2019
Analogy andy LULW
That makes sense nice to look at and can be interpreted anyway in the eye of the beholder
Actually brilliant comparison :D
thorin can be a good rapper.he definitely can spit some nerdy bars 😂
Duncan "for me" 'Thorin' Shields
The Master that phrase is the key to good journalism
oh ye ye dead meme
Too bad ya don't have a f0rest intro
There's a very simple way to say this and that is that f0rest is the most consistently good player across counter strike's history
Since there has never been a player who's been the GOAT in 1.6, source AND CS:GO, f0rest would win by default since he's had a 15 year career and consistantly stayed at the top throughout most of it. People who say that Coldzera or s1mple are the GOAT need to wait 10 years first.
@@rhaoth exactly
@@rhaoth for that to be true it would have to mean that f0rest is the best player in the history of cs. atleast to me thats what goat means. it doesnt matter if he's had the best longevity in his career if there are players that were or are better than him. sure s1mple hasnt been the best over a long peiod of time but if in your opinion s1mple is better than anybody ever at their peak then that makes s1mple the goat.
@@usmn._.m That's the point though, that it's over the course of 3 different games' lifespans. So longevity directly matters, it's not the only thing, but it has a huge impact. In other sports, they have 50+ year histories. In E-sports, CS probably has the longest history of around 20 years at the most, not enough time has passed to have an answer to this question that will satisfy everyone. Like people are saying f0rest has maintained a pretty high level his entire career, and his career has been one of the longest if not THE longest in e-sports history I would assume, which makes him the obvious if not the only candidate for this question. Greatest of ALL time, not greatest right now, or the greatest 2 year stretch. Longevity definitely matters when talking GOAT, regardless what the topic is. But yeah, GOAT of all CS is a dumb question to ask right now because there can't be enough of a discussion when someone basically wins by default.
@@gamefreak9306 AGREED 100% with all of u
No-one has ever said the word "goat" more times in a single video.
You must not watch when espn talk about lebron
GOAHT
That bikini metaphor though!!...xDDDDD😁😁
Smooya .. IS .. the ratking
he is the ratking
R A T K I N G
Let’s break that one down. Now, we have a few players contending for the top ratking. The first two who come to mind are Smooya and kNg. kNg ruined multiple careers. Game over kNg is the Ratking(or ratkNg , rather)
@@peachu7 cringe
theo vons the rat king
But who’s the goat of cs: condition zero?
Henry G mate
Either Rambo(former coach of MVP Korea and Complexity) or Ksharp
6:26 That's a wild analogy. Classic one for the books.
thoorin separated the sheeps from the GOATs
Marcus B EM Reference i like it
For me, GeT_RiGhT will always be the GOAT. Not primarily because of his achievements and skill, but because of the journey he's been through and his insane dedication to the game. Objectively, though, he probably isn't.
I don’t agree with this 100%.
he's defo the most dedicated of all time (DOAT??). you can see how he's put his heat and soul into it
i agree
He is definitely the most dedicated and passionate player in CS history.
beatsnextdoor read what I wrote
@@mysteriousjess. dont even bother, idiots who comment like that are beyond help honestly
i agree there should be GOAT for everygame not all games
I don't think it's weird at all to build up a GOAT narrative in all of counter-strike. The game has always been essentially the same with minor adjustments to how competitive CS is played, you adapt through the patches and updates but all in all it's still the same game. It's not strange that 30 year old f0rest who has played about 15 years as a pro(and almost all of it at the highest level) is called the GOAT 20 years into the franchise. Because there's nothing saying all these great players in 1.6 couldn't have made it to GO, many of them were not older than f0rest. As a fact many greats quit CS in their early 20s. But he's still here, and they aren't, probably for a reason. If this was regular sports, f0rest might not have had the best points/game average ever, but he would for sure be leading the total career points list. f0rest right now is like a 40 year NHLer racking up 50 point seasons to boost his career credentials, like Joe Thornton. The heaviest lifting was done years ago, now he's just piling onto his all-time status.
Give GO(or perhaps the sequel) another 5-10 years and what happened in 1.6 will start to diminish in the grand scheme of things and players who started their competitive career in GO, like s1mple, will start to be considered for GOAT status. Right now though, it's about f0rest, neo and Get_right.
here is how we fix this " ONE OF THE GREATEST OF ALL TIME"
OOT GOAT
That's an empty statement. Every player is one of the greatest, even if they are the 1235th greatest.
@@mukeka1337 No? I don't know anyone in the world who'd interpret that statement like this.
muk as No... just no you have your good players but One of the greatest of all time are players who’s have been good for a long period of time, for example I’d consider niko one because he’s always been insane and one of the best players, but I wouldn’t consider Stewie2K one because he’s been good, but not for a long enough time. I used this comparison cause one had a major and one doesn’t. Same thing applies to someone like adren vs shox.
Sean Linehan shox did win a major
Why do people feel the need to make a fantasy narrative when the real one is already sick. F0rest and Get_Right are two of the greatest players to touch their respective games, and now they're the old veterans, who are bringing up the young talent, who now and again have a flashback game.
I am also a fan of f0rest and I have seen his games since cs 1.6 and he has been consistent most of his cs career. The point of being considered the G.O.A.T player is right in my opinion for us who followed him since the beginning. And to those players (device or simple etc) who are playing better in cs go, there will be others who will say this same GOAT things for them after next 10 years if they performed consistently. So let's have us our time and chill, yours will come.😀😎😎😏
Only real candidates for GOAT are dev1ce and s1mple because they have 1s in their names, meaning one of them must be #1 all time
And gla1ve too... that's why Astralis is so good now... they have 2 GOATs...
Jokes on you device stopped with the 1
But what about co1dzera?
@@knutbjrn6017 coldz3ra you mean? ;)
@@Euvern c10dzera
being 30, and still in a top 8 team is like being 45 and still playing in NHL- its very impressive.
I think you're exagerating a bit, more like being 37 or 38. But yeah.
And why would age be such a factor
@@33shin33 its a game about reactions im 30, I can def feel my reactions has been slowed down since I was 15-20 and even 25.
@@grad5257 reactions? very reaction based game, and you slow down with age, its a fact, your peak is 26 on average for male adults. most likely because the brain is fully developed at 25 among males, it all go down from there.
@@quezcatol F0rest himself has stated that he doesn't think age is a problem, motivation is.
I have the feeling that this video will be very controversial for some people 👀
its so funny :D
GoaT_RiGhT > g0atrest
I understand what Thoorin says but if we disregard f0rest since he is the closest to being GOAT but had peaks and lows, then no one can be the GOAT of cs. If a new player that was 10x better than s1mple came into the scene today, he would not be the goat of cs since he wasnt around when cs 1.6 or source was the successor. From the pool of players to pick from today, f0rest is the goat. GOAT means “Greatest”, you dont need to be insanely amazing, you just need to be better than the rest collectively.
@@corbens_ but goat means goat. ..theres players who were better than him in 1.6 but fell off or didnt transition to csgo. There are players in csgo better than him but who werent as dominant as him in 1.6. You measure greatness by longevity and dominance not how long you were ranked number 1 for (due to players having short term peaks or changes to the game) that player is f0rest, was insane during 1.6 and go.he is not the best 1.6 player or the best go player he is the best counter strike player.
Being the GOAT isn't about being good or being a top player. It is about being greater than others. Very few say forest was an all-time top player, and the point is, there's no such player. So if f0rest has the best consistency, etc overall despite not being a top player it still makes him the goat, I guess.
For the rating, remember that HLTV switched to a different rating "algorithm" or whatever in 2016 or 17 (not sure which year)
I think you have to Distinguish between consistency and peak. So there should be a G. O. A. T. for consistency and one for the peak. Forest ist my consistency goat
Monty De Santa he’s not consistent, this is something everyone says but it makes no sense. In 1.6 he was extremely good throughout, and in csgo he has gone from good at the start, and all the way down to terrible troughs, literally the opposite of consistent
The argument that the GOAT must've been the greatest at a single point in his career is compelling, but isn't airtight.
Let's suppose that Sidney Crosby had played from 1980-1995. Let's also suppose that peak Bobby Orr had played 1980-1985, peak Wayne Gretzky had played 1985-1990 and peak Mario Lemieux 1990-1995. I think we'd mostly agree that Crosby would've been the 2nd best player in the league for 15 years straight, yet never the best in any given year. Still, would I rather have 15 years of Crosby, or 5 years of any of the previous three (the three best players ever, IMO)? I'd take Crosby in a heartbeat.
---
In real life, If I had a single game to play, I'd pick Orr and Lemieux ahead of Gretzky, but there's no denying that Gretzky had, by far, the best career. I think that Orr and Lemieux are the greatest players, but I think Gretzky had the greatest career. I'm not saying that f0rest is at the level of Gretzky, but there's a case to be made for aggregate consistency to have a higher worth than a short peak.
talking bout the goat of csgo, the goat of cs 1.6 and so on and im just sitting here with my goat on steak
Eww
If we went by your logic, there isn't a G.O.A.T. at all mate. Let the fan boys have their fun.
there is a goat for every version by his logic.
Nope there is no GOAT cuz a lot of players didnt transition from 1.6 and source to GO so you would have to seperate between the versions of CS, extreme example you cant say there is a greatest athlete ever like say, oh pele is the best because he was the best football player ever but say micheal jordan is the greatest basketball player, who is better?
Julian well by your logic there is a goat, just not of a overarching field but of a specific field. Like Thor in days not goat of cs but there is a goat of cs 1.6
The point pretty much is that the term GOAT is bad in context of CS.
@@bidcs_ exactly ypu cant have a goat of an overarching thing in most occasions
Thorin is just overthinking the CS beard competition
Hhmm.., I usually say this about CS in general as a "family":
Heaton is the father of cs1.6 (in terms of leadership)
Potti is the mother of cs1.6 (in terms of fertile gameplay and frags)
Neo is the "left" star of cs1.6 (in terms of fame and performances)
Get_Right is the "right" star of cs1.6
Forest is the godfather of CS in general because he re-invented the fire in the CS by being the sustainable bridge between 1.6 and CSGO.
As for CSGO, 1.6 and franchise's GOAT, simply such rich reality cannot be supressed in one title.
There is no Michael Jordan of CS. At least not yet...
If s1mple had a kinder character or a more attractive persona , he could help himself become something like the "goat", but i believe reality is "s1mpl-er" .. ;)
I understand GOAT not olny based on stats. Its also consistency in being a relevant figure in the scene. CS:GO is entertainment, and forest is remembered as one of the most important pieces of entertainment throughout CS franchise.
loved the bobby fischer reference, one of the best players of all time ;)
Sure ^^ Fischer is still 3rd in most computer-made rankings (after Carlsen, Kramnik and sometimes Kasparov as well)
I would do Goat_Right in the intro NoHomo
If anyone thinks that 1.6 and GO is same then just bring back the 1.6 movements to GO and we can see who is GOAT then.
Wouldn’t be such a triggering topic for so many people in the csgo community if people just said he has the greatest longevity, but it’s easier to say “GOAT” just like when people spam four shots with the deagle and call it a “one deag”. You kind of have to accept that people don’t observe their own use of language and what their words mean by definition vs what they “meant” to say in their minds. It’s the same reason why we don’t correct idiots that say double negatives like “I dont got none”. Again, most people do not take the time to stop and consider what their words mean. I think a lot of people would appreciate and benefit from a video series where you define the more ambiguous words used in discussions about esports, especially when it comes to discussions like these.
This video needs a G.o.a.t. counter
coldzera is the goat for me (at least in cs go) a goat has to win majors and hes the only superstar that won them and he had the most impact in the game during sk era
Duncan „ but the problem is“ thorin shields
would it be better to say he's the best player too compete at the highest level in both games? i know its specific and only him and neo fit the category but thats the only narrative i can see and its when you compare him with neo.
lucky strike I suppose it would work. Didn’t think of gtr as only neo and forest really get mentioned for goat
We made it.
I get the argument that he is the goat cause of all the players he was the most consistent in all cs games
What does he mean when he says "i test"?
I heard HenryG drop this comment on the major, was hoping you would weigh in. for me, you shouldn't mix and match. Olof, simple, cold and Seangares as an IGL category separately.
just a nitpicky video. f0rest is the goat of cs
I get what you're saying, but f0rest is still GOAT of cs. Doesn't matter that there isn't anyone else contesting it, many would've loved to be able to contest it but they are not good enough. neo would've loved to be able to just keep that consistent level, same can be said for all the others that didn't transition to cs go like markeloff or delpan. f0rest is incredible and the fact he is the only one in his category does not change it, it reinforces it. The fact that he isn't comparable to top5 stars like niko or s1mple nowadays doesn't change the fact that he's still a solid tier1 player which can't be said for a lot of the much younger talent that struggle just to be tier2 (players like aizy, hobbit and michu). You made him sound like he was one of those tier2 or lower players, you really don't do him justice.
@lucky strike You're the delusional one if you don't consider f0rest a tier1 player. Hell he's been doing better than flamie, ropz and rain the past 6 months. If you don't consider any of these players tier1 you have a very special definition of a tier1 player which probably focuses on tier1 STARS entirely and neglects solid tier1 fraggers like f0rest (or fer, elige, krimz etc.).
cant argue with that logic
Who is your CSGO G.o.a.t then? Cold? Olof?
I'd assume s1mple, because in the past he's made videos about his individual skill and how its probably the greatest peak anyone has ever achieved in csgo, and I don't think Thorin would rate Cold as high as s1mple.
my goat is Dev1ce for his consistency, if we are looking at peak, its s1mple
I have to be honest. When I first saw this thumbnail, I was pretty sure that this one were about Nico
There is a lot of 1.6 players that play CSGO though. I wouldn't say there goats but they played good. I do love forest though more then neo. Hes one of my favorite.
Neo was always the goat of 1.6, regarding the teams and talent they had around them and Neo achieving as much as f0rest did with his team skill cap being much lower
The greatest of altime should be like, if you had to choose one player for a series at their prime who do you pick? Cause for goat status longevity is important, but I favor a stronger and more dominant prime than longevity. I would pick a goat if they are the best player for at-least 3 years and top 3 or 5 for the majority of their career for (csgo). This goes different from other sports like bball where you have to be the best for like 6+ years. A great example is Micheal Jordan and lebron. MJ had a much more dominant prime and more impressive accomplishments. He was still very consistent, but Lebron had been playing at an high level just a season 2 two after his rookie year. But MJ is considered the GOAT just for how dominant he was in his prime. If you could choose forest or simple in a 3 game series 99% of people will pick simple. Even if its 15 to 14 and you’re down one, you would much rather have Simple than forest to win you a round. Crowing a goat in any competitive game should jot be that hard. If it is, it means there hasn’t been that player that just took the crown and no one questioned it. In league, there is no doubt that Faker is the GOAT. He was so dominant, but just running the eye test, you could see something special. And it was just for a year, it has been for the majority of his career. In bball karrem, Hakeem, Magic were all fighting for the top spot. People would go back and forth and it was split. But when MJ came on to the scene, and when you watched him. And how easily he just dominated these top athletes, it was incredible. He was undeniably the great of altime. I don’t think CS has had that one player that just dominated with such ease, like the Fakers and the Jordans of other games. There has been times were its kenny thats the best then the next year its cold. But not one that had an insane prime to be the top dog for many years.
Forest and neo were head to head in 1.6 but in csgo forest is miles ahead of neo ....
Agree
I watched the WHOLE video and I still don't understand what Forest has to do with Overwatch
In CSGO, it would be olofmeister. As long as simple cant get 2 or more major title olof will be the GOAT in CSGO
GRINGE what does major titles have to do with it?
Gayt_right in the beginning made me laugh ngl
"So he becomes some weird aggregate average GOAT" LOL, Poor f0rest!
Poor dude, whenever I think about 1.6 greats I just get flashbacks of Neo defying physics in majors when the pressure was on, achieved more with less talent.
Unfortunately for F0rest every time he's had a period of looking great there's also someone else that challenges his legitimacy.
the dude in the intro is the GOAT, f0rest is the 3rd greatest player of all time behind olof.
damn this is llike mj vs lebron!
Can someone tally a G.O.A.T count? How many time Thorin says G.O.A.T in this video.
This is perfect "taking a shit youtube material".
finally i feel good that im not alone thinking that.... whenever i have a discussion with someone about f0rest it just feels they are literally just brainwashed and think he is the greatest ever.... its like whenever you say anything they will just reply something like naaah naah man he is insaaaane you cant even imagine if you look at him blah blah... like just shut up already what the hell
Great argument. As great as f0rest was in 1.6, neo was a better player, and he was never a top 5 player in CS:GO, yet somehow fanboys describe him as the G.O.A.T in CS as a whole. I don't understand their logic whatsoever.
He was a top5 player in cs go
Longevity in your career while still being able to butt heads with whatever top dog is thrown your way is an incredible feat
na in 2015, top 16 and 2016 7, gat your fact straight.
Forest > neo in 1.6. don't @ me
@Sagar Chopra
lmao no...when u look at their teams...NEO is the greatest 1.6 player...period !
neo won as much as f0rest did, but with much worse players on his team. neo was also individually more skilled as f0rest. neo > f0rest all day long.
@Sagar Chopra
@Sagar Chopra shatup
dev1ce is the GOAT of CSGO. s1mple on a rampage to take him down
VAZ1R device nah not really. Don’t get me wrong.he’s good but if you’re comparing as an individual S1mple beats him...
If the logic being that f0rest is the GOAT because he was really good at one point in 1.6 and was still really good in CS:GO, surely GeT_RiGhT is the more logical choice for GOAT?
f0rest is arguably the best player in cs 1.6 and aarguably top5 all time in cs go. Get_Right is like arguably top5 in both games, probably top10 in cs go.
Why is the point being john brzink being the goat armwrestler when he was that only for a period? Stupid fucking logic
Interesting topic, totally agree with you Duncan. f0rest is definitely Hall of Fame material, but how do commentators come up with these theories? Just in this major Get_Right became the all-time leader in kills in CSGO. Given that all of f0rest's achievements have been earned along side Get_Right, how can people think he's better, when he doesn't have the collateral extra achievements like the above?
So if f0rest isn't the goat then who is? Can't be neo or else you just disregard cs go entirely in player rankings which is dumb. If you say there isn't one than that is much more understandable though. You're also massively underplaying how good f0rest was in 1.6. you say he's number 2 all time but as if that's a bad thing. There was a serious debate over f0rest or neo that continues to this day for the 1.6 goat. I understand you think it's neo, but f0rest has a serious argument that you wouldn't be stupid in believing in that you just seem to disregard, it was and still is very close.
he meant there has to be a goat for every version of the game. and csgo has been up for like 7 years and hadnt shown everything yet... so its a bit early to say who is the csgo goat.
what do you mean if its not f0rest then who it is? unless you mean the goat of counter strike generally.. which is not really applicable in thorins opinion or doesnt make much sense to him which is understandable
AbuLaban yeah I get that he doesn't think there can be one for the whole franchise which I disagree with but that's his opinion.
King Feelix how do you categorise the goat throughout all games? 1.6 is so different in many ways and cannot be compared at all.
cole warburton before I answer that I have to ask, why is 1.6 incomparable to you?
Simply put, if f0rest and neo were joint goat for cs 1.6 (biggest cs era as of now) then we need to pick from both of them since they are still around. F0rest is still putting up numbers regardless of whether or not its streaky or sometimes average. If forest isnt goat, then who is?
f0rest is the G.O.A.T.
Pimp is the G.O.A.T. STFU
Christopher Alesund is the GOAT of CS:GO, I can't fucking spell his IGN tho.
Damn that was quite a half an hour
I guess it depends on how you define goat, if its some type of highest compounding score I guess he could be. Lets just call him the GOMT - Greatest Of Most Time
Thooorin speaking facts.
To be a true goat, you need both longevity and peak. I don't even know if a player like that exists in CS. There's players with crazy longevity like forest, and some with crazy peaks like simple, but no player with both. So I don't think cs really has a definitive goat
Coldzera is the goat of cs go.
2 times hltv rank 1
Has won multiple majors.
Most of the time he is the mvp of the tournament when his team wins.
God in clutch situations.
Lethal with every weapon type like awp, pistol and rifles.
What else you need to become a goat of the game?
So that means Olof is a GOAT also ?
Maybe safe your team from 16 - 0 lost?
baah🐐
f0rest has literally been the only consistently performing player for the last 15 years, end of.
@lucky strike I did watch it, I just simply disagree with the sentiment of not being able to quantify CS as a franchise to lable someone the best of all time. When s1mple and NiKo have played for 15 years or more at the top level we can absolutely discuss if they've had a better career than f0rest no matter how many versions of CS they played.
"Consistently performing". What, did you skip the last 5 years?
Agree forest isnt the goat, but he is still an incredible talent with a super long career playing cs. His longevity is unmatched and his ability to always find his way back to a top player after a period of looking dog shit is impressive
Duncan "I mean" Shields
He still has fragging power
Always keep in mind that people have different criteria for the "g.o.a.t.".
One reason why poeple name him in this conversation is because he transcended the CS franchise.
I know people, who do not play FPS games at all but still know the nickname f0rest / get right / neo /potti...
It is like MJ in the 90´s. There were very few opportunities to watch NBA games, but literally every person knew michael jordan.
Until you do not accept this as a possible reason why people still cheer for the old guys, you will keep making those videos and make fun of them (i.e. #fanlogic etc.).
I personally cheer for them, because they are the last players i know back when i was playing cs a lot (playing since late 1999).
Is forest the goat? Maybe yes maybe not, time will tell. But i have no doubt that a 20y old f0rest with today´s conditions (strong competetive scene, good pc´s etc.) would keep up with the simples and devices out there.
Bot allu shirt!
I mean the G.O.A.T title really is just a personal opinion thing. A lot of player consider f0rest the best player ever in cs 1.6 before your argument about neo came out anyway so using your logic f0rest for some people can still be consider the G.O.A.T. in cs.
goat
okay fr what the fuck are the "eye" or "I" tests or whatever someone please help
No such thing as a GOAT in csgo
It's also weird to even look for the "GOAT" for two different games at once. The reason a lot of the old GOAT candidates didn't transition to CSGO or just weren't nearly as good in CSGO, is because the games are so fucking different.
Why would anyone look for the best player across two different titles like that? It's not like having been good at an old game makes any difference when it comes to your current ability anyway. If you're shit at the newest COD (No clue what it's called as I don't follow it at all..) for example, what difference does it make that you might have been good at COD2 in ~2006 or whatever? You could even have been the greatest player ever at COD2 but if you're not even close today, how does it make sense to talk about you as the GOAT?
It just seems like someone desperately wants a way to call their favorite player "GOAT" honestly, they even decided to exclude Source to "make it fit". lol Some people just *really* want it to fit f0rest it seems. :P
*If* there's even a way to make "GOAT" across multiple titles make any sense, obviously Source needs to be included as well, it's part of the franchise just like 1.6 and CSGO regardless of it being a less popular title. I don't personally think "Aggregate GOAT" makes any sense whatsoever but *if* someone else does, it certainly doesn't make sense not to include the game that came between 1.6 and CSGO.
FeelsBadMan kennyS would've been the goat of csgo if he didn't suck in 2018
+1
Literally ass in most of 2017. For kenny, he could really only be goat if csgo ran from 2015-2016
@@atomix2623 well I mean he cant have been ass if htlv.org and thorin voted him the 7th and 4th best player of the year respectively could he? he was statistically and intangeably the best AWPer in the world that year, a top 3 player in the world for about 4 months and top fragged in his team to win 2 premier tournaments and 1 tier 2 tournament. of course he wasn't the best Kenny weve seen, but id argue if he had had a better igl than shox then he may have got back to his absolute peak form, and to say that an AWPer not at his best form is still the best AWPer in the world kinda speaks for itself.
the goat of csgo is arguably dev1ce lol, not Kennys...
ItsJonny did I not literally say kennyS is not the goat. He and device are both goat candidates, but if Kenny had been at least a top 5 player last year then I would consider him the goat, since he has had the highest skill peak in the game excluding s1mple, and has been consistently one of the worlds best AWPers up until recently
New series: Esports Historian vs Forced Naratives
No more GTR in NiP, let the f0rest rise
"Would you call gla1ve a top 10 player in the world?"
Yeah, easily.
@lucky strike and I didn't
since he is the only top elite level 1.6 pro making top 20s and is still performing in CSGO, there is no arguing he is not the GOAT. there is literally no other candidate
the problem is that ranking it that way is useless, he was arguably never the GOAT of either games separately, therefore naming him the GOAT sends the wrong message, and naming GOATs of 1.6 and CSGO separately is way more interesting
He is like the CR7 or Messi of CS imo
He's more similar to pele/maradona
s1mple = messi,because both of them are a very amazing players but never win the highest competition
(s1mple 0 major,messi 0 world cup )
Get_Right cute as hell
Love the Video. Really need to agree here. BUUUUT (yes, theres always a but) i still love f0rest as a Player and Person - thats why i'm calling f0rest one of my top 5 "goats" (if you wanna say it like that)... but to be fair ...even fnx is in my personal top 5.... :) Thats why personal lists are so great...they don't need to be objectiv , they just need to right for yourself. I never argued with anyone whos the Real GOAT - for me its Potti, just because i loved his playstyle and his incredible "allround"- Talent. Heard People say it's s1mple, but i would say ..give him 1 more year on this level and i'm on board with that idea :D
Superstitum, you watching this? Get on it!
Olof :)
Everyone knows that GOAT of the CS franchise is Zonic
Guardian GOAT
Yo... is GeT_RiGhT single?
take a shot for every time Thorin says G.O.A.T