I will certainly make a video to show the math if there's enough interest! I was worried that people will fall asleep if I get too deep into the math. Also, I am guessing you injured your finger before like me, right?
@@GeekClimber A video on the math would be very interesting. However, I believe you could still do the front lever regardless my friend. Or perhaps you could try it with a weighted vest like some other commenters suggested. Regardless, good luck on your new goals
for your front lever question, look up victorian cross. it really is just getting stronger. if people can do a victorian, then it should be possible for you to do a front lever. just like daniel from fitness FAQ points out, it's harder for certain people, like really tall people have to work harder. short arm people have to work harder for front lever, but you'd probably excel at iron cross.
I agree that I will have a genetic advantage for the iron cross, and to be honest I have a genetic advantage for the one arm pull up too due to the shorter bar path I have to travel. I looked up on victorian and that looks like a move that belongs to the top 0.00001% ... Can Chris Heria or Daniel Vadnal even do this move?
@@GeekClimber the Victorian has only been done by a handful of people but I believe it will have the bannister effect. Now that people know it’s possible more and more people have done it.
While I personally (as a physicist used to free body diagrams galore) agree with your analysis + conclusions, I suggest a good test of them would be to strap on some weights as high on your torso as possible (and a heavy hat??) to move your center of mass to allow a 45° angle for your arms in a balance front level. I didn't do the math but hopefully you're already strong enough this way??
@@GeekClimber As an injury prone athlete, "Don't get injured" has been my number 1 climbing goal last 2 years. I had a knee injury few months ago from a lateral heel hook and finally got an MRI to find out I have had a torn meniscus this whole time but at least I have not gotten any finger or other injuries that limited my climbing.
Im not here to hate but u can achieve the front lever 100% if u just put in more time. People like sondre berg who also has really short, probebly even shorter arms then u achieved it after 10 years of FL training (he could do one arm muscleup, reping one arm pull ups, and are extremely strong in overall calisthenics). And when u say that u should have the strength becouse u able to to a one arm pull up and been training for a vary long time, i think u wrong. Frontlever needs vary specific training and doesnt use the same muscles and not in the same way as pull ups, one arm pull ups and muscleups. U just have to train more and get stronger, its a painful truth but its the truth. I love your content and i would love to see you achieve the front lever one day! keep it up, i belive in u!:D
@ACf bro did u just compared Geek Climber to Sondre Berg? This guy is full time sportsman, this is his life. For 'average' tall people who have to work, study, take care of family its close to impossible to reach that level of strength and such elements. Even for him it took few years. I just don't like this twisted motivation speak aka 'you can achive it even if youre tall/fat cause this one dude in entire world can do it as well' . This is rather unmotivating and sounds ridiculous than something that could help with front level or planche for example.
@@Marcin18x dude it was just an example of someone that has really bad genetics, alooot worse then Geekclimber. But still his math is wrong… people is out here doing weighted viktorian and frontlever to victorian which means u have a aloot bigger lever.
It's not about absolute arm length, it's about how close the arms are to center of mass/arm length RATIO. If a person has proportionately short legs, they can still have a better leverage for front lever, if their legs are correspondingly short. There is not a rings specialist today that has relatively short arms and long legs. If you look at the taller guys that achieved front lever or planche, they have relatively long arms even for their height. Every one of the top rings specialists has short legs, from what I've seen, but you may be right that he could still achieve it with time!
I really hope you continue the front lever, i am 188cm tall and about 80kg and also struggle with it (at halflay rn) and struggle to find motivation sometimes
be patient and take your time i am 1,94cm and 89kg and did my first full front lever in 2021 and trained it for over 2 years you are already at halflay that means you are damn close to a full one just remember how far you have come with this height and weight thats crazy! maybe look for different exercises.. my key exercises to unlock the front lever were full front lever rises with resistance band and dragon flags
@@marvinj3013 thanks man, i am gonna start a new program after my deload this week and try to be as consistent as possible, i am doing all types of front lever exercise just no dragon flags since i dont have anywhere to do them and yes i am close to it and hope that ill achieve it in february
I feel the struggle :) i am 197cm and 103kg... i can hold a clean one leg adv. Tuck lever for around 7-9 sec :) even tho it needs time to get there i am sure ill get it some day
on that stage ur really close to a full frontlever , try this dynamics they will help u alot full fl raises(all the way up if u can or just at half the rom) , fl negatives and boost up ur pulling strenght with weighted pullups if u can (fl its mostly back strenght)
I'm 1.88m and 81Kg with -3cm ape index. I unlocked the front lever when I started incorporating deadlift into my training. Keeping the bar close to your body is a very similar thing to holding front lever. Also: "Tail end of athletic career"???? I started lifting at mid 40's and am stronger now at 47 (both in the gym and climbing, did first V9 this year!) Just train and stop putting artificial limits on your capabilities. Training the front lever will help your climbing, whether you achieve the full thing or not. It's not all about youtube views you know.... ;)
I agree with many things said here. Firstly with deadlift improving one's straight arm pulling strength. I use a trap bar, which I recommend to anyone who isn't pursing powerlifting specifically, and when I do pull ups later in my workout I am flying up the bar from the deadlifts earlier. Holding the at the top of the deadlift is great for your upper back muscles. Secondly it bummed me out to hear our friend GeekClimber to hear him speak with such bleak terms and with "limiting self-beliefs". It is not impossible for him or for anyone to not achieve something like a front lever or any other personal feat. It may be more difficult for someone to achieve than someone else, he may need to defer away from some goals or hobbies in order to focus on it, but those are different mindsets than "it's impossible for me". If he said "in order for me to achieve the front lever I would have to focus too exclusively on it and that would take away from too many things that I like to do" that would be a very different message
I would be interested in seeing the math. I've been training the front lever for a year now and still at a low progression but I hope to achieve it in the new year. Best wishes on the 2022 goals!
Good luck bro, it could be hard sometimes to see ppl reaching the full front in just 5 months or even less, but for each person its a different journey, im personally in my 8/9 months of front lever and I still dont have it but its coming !
Same here bro, I have been working with front lever for over a year, but only able to hold 3-4 second of straddle front. Good luck and hope we can both achieve the front lever in 2022
To learn the full planche, our shoulders need to be able to produce torque at a specific angle. For you, that angle will be 47-48 degrees because this is your front lever angle. To develop strength at that angle, we can use either straight arm or bent arm pushing exercises. As long as our range of motion in these pushing exercises includes the shoulder angle of full planche. In regards to front lever, it is the same. We need to choose pulling exercises that emphasize our front lever angle and track our progress by measuring torque produced as well as shoulder angle.
It sucks to hear that the front lever is no longer a practical goal for you, and that there’s been so much pressure from your viewers to force progression in your calisthenics journey. But thanks for sharing all of this and wishing you well.
I think he can learn the front lever he got one arm pull up and his a rock climber I met a guy at the rock climbing gym he can front lever and one arm pull up he also do weighted pull ups .
I'm gonna make a few points that will give you the motivation to train this skill again and finally achieve it. 1. Front lever is ranked A in the Gymnastics Code of Points, A rank skills are accessible and most rings gymnasts have short arms. 2. Most calisthenics athletes with only a few years of training can do wide front lever (Lower angle than the one you claim is your angle) and Elbow Front Lever (WAAAAY lower angle than your angle). These are skills achievable by regular people not freakish athletes with amazing genetics. 3. Front lever has way more specific strength than you think, especially for people with shorter angles. The strength you built from your one arm pull up and weighted pull up is not fully transferable to your Front Lever. The muscles that are more directly impacted with shorter angle is the Forearm (Heavy Activation), the Spinal Extensors (Heavy Activation), The Rhomboid (Medium Activation), the Rear Delt (light activation), the lats (light activation), and the triceps (light activation). Basically strengthening your grip and your spinal extensors will be enough to perform the skill. Since One arm pull up typically comes with a ton of grip strength, think about doing some horizontal rows to your waistline, on a machine. Or Some Sumo deadlifts, with the lats engaged promoting thoracic extension. Holding the bottom of the sumo deadlift will have the most cross over to the front lever. Looking forward to seeing some front lever gains!! I was not able to even come close to do Front lever for many YEARS! It wasn't until I changed my training method (NO MORE PROGRESSIONS). I only trained the front lever in the full position using assistance like a band around my waist. Weight pullups to promote grip and lat strength. Machine rows to improve center back strength. and finally Sumo deadlift holds to keep happy and strong spinal extensors. Now I can do weighted front levers, front lever raises, and other difficult exercises I thought I would never achieve. You do not need big bulky muscles, you simply need to improve the strength in the muscles that are used for the exercise.
This was the most interesting math I've ever seen. You really put a lot of work into your videos. I was watching the whole video with my eyes glued to the screen!
i have the same problem, but when you see people doing victorian front lever (almost zero degree angle) you realize its absoloutely possible' just very hard
Hey bro you can definitely achieve the front lever if you just keep training on it, the closer I get to the full front lever ,in my experience, the harder to make progress because of the more disadvantaged position of lats, however, it did make progress just not that noticeable so just don’t give up there. It took me 7 months from tucked to straddle then 4 months from straddle to full FL, I was thinking I would be stuck with straddle forever though. I was a marathon runner and my upper body was really skinny, I couldn’t do even one single pull up, I spent 2 years to build my muscle and basic strength before start calisthenics training. Now I’m training for one arm pull up and your tutorial is absolutely the best I can find! Thank you and good luck with your journey, you’re a legend already!👍
That’s crazy man I was to be a cross country runner and track runner also triathlon. It took me 10-11 months to get to the straddle front lever 3-5 secs sadly some days I couldn’t even straddle front lever I keep on working on the 1 leg front lever progression. Right now I’m 1 years and 3 months in the front lever training and I still haven’t achieved it yet I’m 5 ft 11 weighing 190lbs front lever is a struggle . Is it possible for me to front lever . I achieve the human flag,muscle up,one arm push up,handstand and straddle back lever ?
Sondre Berg is an example of short arms/angle. In some of his interviews he says that it took him around 7 years to achieve the front lever. So it's not about the destination , bad genetics and giving up because of them. It's all about enjoyning the journey because it's not a marathon. It may take you 20 years or 30 or 40 to achieve a front lever. But it's not about how long it takes. It's about consistency , discipline , failing to progressive overload , experimenting , patience and much more. Me for example, I have a goal of achieving a Victorian with narrow grip. An exercise which I never saw performed (all the athletes who have done Victorian did it with very wide grip) and I can currently do no more than 15 pull ups. That sounds insane and it may take me 10+ years or never to get this skill , taking in consideration that training isn't even my full time job. But I won't care if I try 35 years without getting it. Along the journey I'll have learned soo much. So enjoy training bro. Don't train with a stress of performing better because you have to show your front lever online.
Finally, think about this : if a guy from the future comes and tells you that you'll never ever achieve the front lever ,will you keep training it or not? If no,then there's a very high possibility that you're not enjoying the journey. Try to make the answer of this question a "yes" and front lever will be the most beautiful journey ever.
Good luck with your goals! You are putting some great authentic content on the internet, and I love it! I hope that you'll keep training, moving, and climbing, at least for the next 20 years!!
I just wanted to say that I understand why you went to such efforts to understand the factors with the front lever, and I don't view it as "crying" or an excuse. You even said "if I see video of someone doing it at a smaller degree arc than me, I'll reconsider", and that's fair! At the same time, I think it's worth a re-evaluation. I think I've seen some comments that have mentioned other ways of training (using bands to offset the exact position, instead of the usual progressions), or given other suggestions to train other muscle groups. I'm too ignorant to know if they are right, or if you are right, but I think it is worth looking into a bit further. And just think about this-- if you end up reconsidering, and trying different protocols, and end up progressing / getting way closer, you'll have so much valuable info to share about that journey. You'd have overcame a huge amount of adversity, and can then relay that knowledge to anyone else that feels defeated by it. I know you keep up with this TH-cam channel to inspire and to educate, and I know whatever you end up doing, you will do that. Happy new year, and thanks for all of the content I've seen so far ❤️
your videos are great , very informative no bs and no blind trust from others because all bodies are different you are a great example for everyones athletic journey
I've already seen some of the following points in the comments, but here are some thoughts. You might be weak in the specific angle required for a full front lever because your nervous system is not using the available muscle mass very efficiently, since the angle that you trained in the straddle half lay and easier progression was different enough that the strength transfer was only partial. And there are some muscles that are used in the front lever but one arm pull up training might not have strengthened much, like the triceps (both heads used for arm lockout, long head also contributes to shoulder extension) and mid-low traps+rhomboids for scapular retraction (actually neutral scapula is a stronger position than fully retracted, but those muscles get the scapula out of protraction), horizontal pulling movements would strengthen those more than oap. Regarding bent arm strength training, it's recommended because it's easier to use it for muscle growth than only training with straight arms, so it allows you to build up the muscle mass in the right muscles used in straight arm moves, so an efficient program would include both bent/straight arm training at the same time or use some form of periodization alternating them.
I was in a similar position: try wearing a weighted vest while doing a tucked front lever. I progressed the weight in that position for a few months, took off the vest, and I found I could hold a perfect front lever for sets of 20-30 seconds, which was more than enough to begin training the move. I believe this will work for you.
How many pounds is your weighted vest? I can human flag but can front lever and my friend can front lever but can’t human flag. I’m also curious is front lever easier than human flag ?
@@BreakingJJC It was only 8.8 pounds worth of bars (4 bars total). Start with a single bar, and when you're able to hold a full 60 seconds in the tucked lever, add another bar. I know it doesn't sound like a lot of weight, but in positions with compromised leverage, it's more than enough to get the job done. Don't rush to increase the weight. Take your time and be kind to your joints. Regarding flags, really depends on someone's proportions. I've known shorter guys who can do a flag with no training.
As the person who progress really fast with planche and hspu (full planche and 2x 90 degree push ups in ~6 months), but I am still struggling with straddle front lever for the past 3 years, it makes sense for me. Hope you can achieve your goal in 2022, cheer!
YOOO LETS GO KEEP GRINDING MAN, as a 17 year old, I changed a fk ton this year and besically didn't complete any of my goals, but I still had fun this year, and the main thing I learned is that keep doing things that you love, even if you aren't really good at it. Small simple steps can get you really far, of course it's paired with 8 hours of sleep and motivation that lasts for a long time!! 🔥
@@maximmilet1862 Yeahh, realized this...even if it was a rigid extended handgrip I am guessing it is about your center of gravity and not the bar. Seems like there should be some physical way to get around the physics....weighted backpack maybe???
@@JocieFire Your center of mass needs to be under your support for remaining in balance (your hands or as I suggest your fingers. It would be ideal to have more weight from the shoulders up, so a person with a really long neck or a really trained neck will have an easier time. You can try adding 2 kg (4 lbs) on your neck (even higher would be better like on your forehead), and you'll immediately feel the difference. (The same applies for planche) => So neck training, perhaps.
The secret to a good front lever is not practising progressions - but to practise more and more pull ups, weighted pulls til you can pull 60-70%of your body weight for 6-8 reps. Don't focus on 1 rep max. What I am coming to realise is a good front lever is an organic byproduct of a good pulling strength and as excited I was to get the FL, now I am more keen on getting better pulls and the FL will follow. 1. I found transition from straddle half lay to full half lay by performing high pull ups with a resistance band 2wice a week. 2. Practise more weighted pull-ups till you are able to pull your 2x bodyweight - this will take care of back hypertrophy. Also you should have a pull day twice a week where on the second session you are doing 6-8 reps of maybe 2/3rd of your 1 rep max. There is a very good video on the 'Russian method' of improving pull numbers by Dominik Sky. The pulls have to be strict - scapula depressed, and with proper form. If you find your form flaky decrease the weight to which you are comfortable to perform it with proper form. These strengthen the very muscles needed for the FL - depressed scapula, engaged lats. 3. Also don't pull yourself into a half lay, practise first walking into a half lay. This will reduce fatigue. So I do by placing a dip bar on two chairs and walk into it and can do a good half lay. On a bar my half lay is still in a straddle but at a lower height it is proper and I can hold it for 6 seconds for reps I am 39yo with zero climbing experience and currently do a 40kg pull ups at 62 kg bw and have been taking coaching sessions from some of the folks you have cited - I feel some things need better coaching and programming.
If you are week in those degrees, just train those degrees? Full front iso with loop band will let you accumulate volume in that position. Front lever raises (at a lower progression, one leg maybe) from horizontal position to top position (when u are upside down with legs up in the sky) will help you train the lesser degrees of your lat pull down strength too. And never stop working your weighted pull ups alongside front lever training: it keeps feeding the front lever with a huge transfert.
the halflay straddle is a cool variation in it's own right. I wouldn't give up after unlocking an advanced variation like that even if I knew I couldn't progress to the next variation.
Anyone can do the front lever. With static strength it's just a matter of time. I knew a guy that was 6'4" with a -4 ape index that just kept training front lever. It took him about 3 years which is 3x longer than most people, but he did it. If you really want it then be consistent. Progress may be measured in years and not weeks or months. Of course if you aren't willing to chip away at it for that long then that's understandable. It can be gruelling and not being able to progress to the next variation for months can demoralizing. The end resut may be worth the effort though.
I want to add that if you feel training front lever isn't helping your climbing then it may be an inappropriate goal to set for yourself and therefore not worth the effort.
Just started my road to planche a week ago. The push strength really helps as I had been doing a lot of push up exercises beforehand. What people often fail to realize with push ups is that controlled scapula engaged reps at the top with protraction really helps you develop the strength to hold at least a tucked planche a lot easier
I have to correct your physics here Geek Climber because I see this same mistake made all the time. The difficulty of the front lever is (broadly) determined by two things: your weight, and the horizontal distance from your centre of mass to your shoulders. The product of these two numbers is the torque on the shoulder. Your arm length is pretty much inconsequential: yes, shorter arms will mean a smaller angle, but they don't affect the distance between your shoulders and centre of mass. What *will* affect this distance is the position you hold your body in --- tuck, straddle, half lay, etc. Since your arms are of fixed length, the angle at the shoulder changes as you change position, and hence this angle acts as a proxy for difficulty --- for a given individual. The error people make is using shoulder angle to compare *different* people, with different mass distributions and limb lengths, where they should really be comparing the fundamental measure: torque at the shoulder. The body morphology that *really* suffers when it comes to the front lever is simply a bottom-heavy one. If you have heavy legs or a long torso (so that your heavy hips are further south), your centre of mass will be further from your shoulders and the move will be more difficult for you than for most other people of your weight. However, one shouldn't be lured into thinking that packing on mass around the chest and upper back will help matters here: yes, your centre of mass will be moved upwards, but you'll also be heavier. In fact, any extra weight added south of the shoulder will provide an extra torque and make the exercise more difficult. The only way to make the exercise easier in this way is to add weight around the head or neck, which provides a counter torque. More sensibly, one should strive to lose weight in general, and in the lower body in particular. Finally, as for your lat pull down experiment: the reason this exercise became so much harder is simply because the weight was moved further from your shoulders as you decreased the shoulder angle, and the torque was proportionally greater. If you decreased the shoulder angle but kept the bar the same horizontal distance away from your shoulders, by setting the bar against the wrists or even forearms, you should find that the difficulty stays fairly constant. Indeed, a false grip front lever should feel of comparable difficulty to a regular grip front lever, even though this shortens your arms even further. The front lever is bloody hard and requires huge amounts of upper back strength. The only thing holding you back is your mind.
How about not caring too much about proper form? Try to achieve a slightly bent arm front lever and clean it up over the years. There are people doing victorian cross or touch front lever so the angle between arms and shoulders is also closer even if they have an advantage for normal Front Lever. Having a disadvantage is no excuse for something you really want to achieve! ;)
I dont think front lever is harder for short arm people even if the angle changes, because shorter arms also means reduce leverage : its easier to apply force closer to you, try to front lever with a false grip youll see the angle may be harder but applying force should be easier too
my goal is to reach 2 finger planche untill the end of this year. Now I am able to do 18 push ups with 2 fingers, and hold 16 seconds planche (also 4 planche push ups) (also now I am 15, and watched you since 13. Followed your trainings, and BOOM)
You literally said in the video, that you don't have enough muscles to do it by saying, that you have way too light your upper body, so your center is a bit lower then theirs.
I've been training both front lever and planche with heavy use of calisthenics bands and very little focus on traditional progressions (tuck / adv tuck / frog / straddle / full). Your videos have helped me a lot in my training, so I'm hoping this will be helpful to you. What I like about bands over traditional progressions is that using bands breaks progress down into measurable bite sized chunks making progression way easier to see, especially when measuring in assist torque instead of raw force. For my own training I recently worked out the math for the assist torque provided by each of my bands at specific positions. If I'm doing things right, the assist torque equals the raw assist force times the distance in feet from the fulcrum (my shoulders). The raw force of a band at a specific position can be measured with any device that calculates hanging weight such as a fishing scale. So if I measure a band as giving 20lb of assist when stretched to the length it will be in during a front lever, then at at 1ft away from my shoulders that provides 20 foot-pounds of torque, while at 2 ft it provides ~40 foot-pounds. All the way at my ankles the assist torque is roughly 100 foot-pounds. Thanks to that, I now have an pretty clear number for how far I have left go that also happens to plot nicely onto a graph.
When are we getting a video about your 2022 progress. I would really like to see your approach to back levers as there isn't a lot of content out there! Love your videos
I remember myself being a bit surprised about your long way to front lever, when at the same time I was progressing quite well (but I was mostly repeating lowering body with bent one leg). Now I achieved about one second of front lever, not perfect form yet and you made me think that I defintely need to take a picture and measure my arm to body angle and compare myself with informations you have provided. All the best for New Year, I'm sure your'e gonna acheive all the goals without any injuries! ;)
Short arms make it harder but I don't think this means it is unachievable. Search up front lever to Victorian on yt. The angle their arms make is very small, maybe like 5degrees.
I just searched for Victorian, and I am shocked by these people, haha. They gotta be the top 0.00001%. Do you think guys like Chris Heria and Daniel Vadnal is able to do this insane move? In any case, I would agree with you that I shouldn't have use the word "impossible", should've used "highly improbable".
Definitely! Im pretty sure Chris heria or Daniel vadnal haven't done it as it is rare even for pro gymnasts. Anyways, I wouldn't give up on the front lever just yet.
Stop complaining mate 😀. It took me over 2 years to achieve straddle planche and full frontlever, but I did it with a proper trainings. If you dont have predispositions (like me) it will be much harder, but still doable. Planche is not a maltese on rings ;)
Just because it might be harder for you than some, doesn't mean it is unattainable. It is a tough road for many, and many also suffer injuries during the process. Take a break and attack it again later. Best of luck!
When I was a beginner in calisthenics L-sit to handstand was the first move I taught myself so I wanted to offer some advice that helped me. I first attempted it from a frog stand position, kind of like a tuck planche but with bend arms and my legs resting on my arms. Contrary to your belief, I used athlean-x’s 22 day push up challenge to get my push-ups from about 30 to 45 reps at the same time and it helped me significantly. I didn’t do any handstand push-up exercises simply because they were too hard at the time and weren’t helping me make progress, so I decided to get better and something easier. After about a month of doing around 100 push-ups a day and attempting the press from the frog position, I got the full L-sit to handstand press. What you’re going for is much easier than from an L-sit and I think you might even get it quicker than I did if you try out my method and see how it works for you
Hey Geek, interesting approach to the possibilities of front lever! I like it! Have you checked the angles of women who are able to do the front lever? Naturally they should have a even worse centre of gravity point, right?
One math equation doesn't prove anything in my opinion, there are many factors in real life physics considering the human body. You can certainly achieve front lever, look at what you can do already! Some people take longer than others. 1 year is actually not a lot of time of training. Some people it takes multiple years to achieve front lever. I'm 181 cm 80 kg and could still hold 5 sec front lever, there are 2 meter tall people doing planche as well! Your body is certainly good for this sport and you have really good strength. Keep at it bro! But if you train back lever as you said that is a good starting point. Never give up!
I got both the straddle and straight leg press to handstand without being able to do the bent arm press to handstand. It's all a matter of flexibility and compression. If you can touch your chin to the ground when doing pancake stretches, it doesn't take a lot of shoulder strength. If you can touch your chest to the ground in a pancake stretch, it's basically effortless.
To prove the theory about weight on the front lever, wear a weighted vest and do an update! Very interested in this. Not doubting, just would like to see an experiment validation.
Dude, all you gotta do is be patient and continue your exersize, those other guys have been training alot longer than you have, courage and take stock in your personal progress!
What I really want for one of your upcoming videos is that, I want to see a video about how those challanges changed your body hypertrophy vise, how much muscle have you gained? You are awesome keep those geek content coming!
I find it fascinating how different the difficulties are for different people. I learned back lever in a few months, and my roommate learned it in a month. But front lever has been pretty slow; I've been at it for a year and a half and I'm basically where you are. And I'm not even close to a one-arm pull up; at best I can pull about ⅔ of my bodyweight for a single rep. I'm glad you're making people aware of how different body shapes affect the difficulty of these skills. That being said, you can change your body shape (aside from your height ofc) by eating more and putting on mass where you exercise. But I understand if you don't really want to.
I think that the front lever is 100% achievable for everyone... I'm from Italy and here there is a lot of great information about calisthenics skills training, unfortunately watching most foreign tutorials I see that there is a lot, and I mean A LOT of misinformation... for example, I achieved the full front lever just by training the tuck and adv tuck front lever with one/two exercises (and yes, I mean exercises, not sessions) a week, (it didn't only work on me) while most coaches would tell you: "train hard" "use eccentrics with harder progressions" etc... unfortunately in my opinion that's simply bs. ps. now that I can hold a full front lever for a couple of seconds I still train tuck and adv tuck front only, low reps, low sets, mid to low intensity. hope this comment helped you and others sorry for my bad English, have a good day!
i agree, i have seen manuel caruso do a 100kg extra weight front lever. There is no way geekclimber, someone who i assume is average height cannot do the front lever.
100% agree with this! I was stuck at the one leg progression for 2 years until I learnt how to properly train for the skill. I achieved the full front lever after 4 years of calisthenics & can now hold it for 20+ seconds & am also capable of doing 4 front lever pullups touching the bar. The reason it took so long was because I wasnt training the right way & this is probably the case with geekclimber. For me the best way to gain strenght for the front lever is to train it greasing the groove style, builds up the neuromuscular connections & makes you much more efficient in the exercise
So, achieving the planche by only doing tuck and planche lean is possible ? Do you think that if i do only these exercises with progressive overload and low intensity everyday i would achieve a planche?
@@MusclesEducationCali I think the planche is a bit different, I would go with 1/2/3 exercices a week at first, and progressively overloading, I don't think you could achieve the planche just by training the tuck and planche lean, but the progression I would go for is: 1: planche lean 2: planche lean+tuck planche with a loop 3: tuck plamche with a loop 4: tuck planche with a loop+tuck planche etc... keep in mind that you have to do other complementary exercises as well to achieve skills easily, for example some complementary exercises for the planche are handstand pushups, pike pushups etc, for the front lever a good exercise could be pullups/weighted pullups etc... the key is not the specific training, but THE WHOLE WORKOUT PROGRAM!
Love the front lever analysis. I tried for years, got the flag and even straddle planche within a couple of years, but just couldn't progress through FL. I personally find elbow lever helpful as a warmup to planche.
Love your videos!! One thing I will say is that the front lever is mostly back, then triceps so the one arm pullups only really did so much for front lever. My favorite exercise was the below parallel hold from a dead hang, This got me and some others the full front lever in 2 weeks from your current level
In my opinion, something that is commonly overlooked is locking out your entire body correctly to maximize transfer of energy. This isn't easy to learn if you are not actively looking for it. Learning how to engage your core correctly with open hips is critically required to execute any calesthenics move correctly. Think power leaks. It is very difficult to move a 100lbs mattress compared to a 100lbs stiff piece of wood. I've found solidifying a strict to form dragon flag will teach/build the correct engagement needed to make your entire body move as 1 unit. There should be no curve in the body whatsoever in the dragon flag during concentric and eccentric portions of the move. It should look like a stiff plank the entire time. Once you develop the correct core engagement, pull ups, pushups, front lever, muscle up, handstands, planche, and much more will be much more efficient. The core doesn't necessarily need to be crazy strong, but as you learned along the way, it's all about proper muscle engagement. However, what needs to be strong is the serratus anterior. It is essential to be able to allow your lats to engage properly with your abs. A simple test is a pull up. If you do a pull up and your feet stray from its vertical plane, you are not engaging your core correctly. Meaning, during pull up, if your feet ever lifts up or strays forward away from under the bar, you don't have the right core engagement. It's should feel as though your abs are flexed, but you feel a stretch in your abs at the same time. Took me years to learn this on my own. Body position is key. Don't give up. Nothing in calesthenics is impossible. Just keep in mind, this is coming from a regular guy who learned this along the way. I'm not a coach or a pro, so I'm not 100% sure if this is correct. Just my 2 cents.
I would really like to hear about your injury/rehab process. You mentioned it potentially being "boring" but I find a lot of that stuff insightful and I think a HUGE part of climbing is overcoming injuries, and how you approach it physically and mentally. I know some people haven't injured themselves, but I think for the average person it is a pretty "normal" occurence (especially when you think about the strain we put our body under). I say this as someone who had a string of injuries and I agree - they absolutely suck, but I am always so curious to know what peoples journeys are like with the rehab. Hope you will reconsider :). Thanks and happy new year!
Good luck with your press to handstand goal. I started working on handstand last year (2021) and am now looking to progress to a press movement. It currently feels like my feet are glued to the floor. How do people make this look so easy? 😁. Btw, I started climbing at age 51, working towards my first V6 this year. You're never too old.
Dont worry about not achieving goals, you achieved one arm pull up which is very good, and dont think its impossible to do front lever, I also only achieved one goal this year Which is Full rom(Floor) freestanding handstand Push ups, but this year Im sure I will get much more...
For the handstand pushups, negatives and static holds on the bottom are important. You also need to work on your balance, because otherwise you cant focus on generating strength. Try hitting at least a 45 second freestanding hold. Another thing that helped me tremendously was going handstand ---> tuck ---> L-sit as slow as possible. And finally, try doing negatives straddle handstand ---> bent arm straddle planche. Source: I rep out 90 degree hspu and taught handstands and hspu to 2 of my workout buddies. All of luck to you! With these exercises, it shouldnt take more than 2 months tops, if you do them at least twice a week (more often the better). Once you unlock the hspu, the press handstand will come with it as well as L-sit to handstand, automatically.
Could you do a video about how not to get injured? I watched your video about how you did, and the conclusion was not to push yourself too hard and know when to stop. Apart from that, is there anything you would like to share? I've just started climbing, so everything you have to say should be new and interesting. I like your take on things, your precision and honesty, keep up the good work. Happy New Year!
How about adding a weight vest, or some kind of small extra load to your shoulders to move your centre of gravity? If you can pull 1.2x your BW at a natural angle for your arms, perhaps adding 5 or 10% of your BW on your shoulders will assist you, whilst not overloading your max strength capabilities.... (Not sure it'll work, but I'm sure you'll do the math and decide if it's worth a try :) )
Nice video! Really appreciate your honesty about your abilities and goals. It's hard to make realistic goals and it's even harder if you have to accept that you won't make your goals.
For the front lever, remember to do a core strength test too! If your core strength isn’t good enough, training your core is much easier than only training front lever.
To test your core strength, place your upper back on a platform and anchor yourself on something with your arms. Then see if you can lift your legs off the ground!
A tip for the bent arm handstand press is to try a smaller progression. Start from a frog stand and press up to handstand. Depending on how much you bend your elbow, you will still have similar mechanics of the handstand push-up, but the lever distance of your leg is decreased (like a tucked bent arm handstand press rather than straight legs/pike)
There's probably a sweet spot. Wearing a weight vest will increase the angle which makes it easier, but the overall weight you need to pull becomes bigger which makes it harder.
@@GeekClimber yeah that's right. But since you're soooo good at training and gaining strength, I feel that you would be able to do front lever with extra weight if the angle is right. Anyway, another great video as always! Keep it up in 2022👍👍👍
yes, show the math pls :D Actually I think talking about injuries is very interesting.
I will certainly make a video to show the math if there's enough interest! I was worried that people will fall asleep if I get too deep into the math. Also, I am guessing you injured your finger before like me, right?
@@GeekClimber wrists in my case :D and tendonitis on fingers. You are right.
@@GeekClimber what is your body fat percentage by the way? I had a similar dexa scan
@@GeekClimber A video on the math would be very interesting. However, I believe you could still do the front lever regardless my friend. Or perhaps you could try it with a weighted vest like some other commenters suggested. Regardless, good luck on your new goals
@orangefield2 I actually revealed it in a previous video. It's 14%.
for your front lever question, look up victorian cross. it really is just getting stronger. if people can do a victorian, then it should be possible for you to do a front lever. just like daniel from fitness FAQ points out, it's harder for certain people, like really tall people have to work harder. short arm people have to work harder for front lever, but you'd probably excel at iron cross.
Interesting point about Iron cross.
I agree that I will have a genetic advantage for the iron cross, and to be honest I have a genetic advantage for the one arm pull up too due to the shorter bar path I have to travel. I looked up on victorian and that looks like a move that belongs to the top 0.00001% ... Can Chris Heria or Daniel Vadnal even do this move?
@@GeekClimber no they can't, but strognest cali athletetes are able to do it
@@GeekClimber the Victorian has only been done by a handful of people but I believe it will have the bannister effect. Now that people know it’s possible more and more people have done it.
@@GeekClimber No they can't, simply because they never trained for it
While I personally (as a physicist used to free body diagrams galore) agree with your analysis + conclusions, I suggest a good test of them would be to strap on some weights as high on your torso as possible (and a heavy hat??) to move your center of mass to allow a 45° angle for your arms in a balance front level. I didn't do the math but hopefully you're already strong enough this way??
Exactly i thought, he can wear a bag with small weight around back
he did that in a video
in 2 ways actually. long arms and heavy back versions
You are real and very entertaining you are appreciated! I’m 66 and hitting calisthenics and still going forward.
you should add "No significant injury" to the list of goals!
You are totally right 🤣. I should've added no injuries to the list.
@@GeekClimber As an injury prone athlete, "Don't get injured" has been my number 1 climbing goal last 2 years. I had a knee injury few months ago from a lateral heel hook and finally got an MRI to find out I have had a torn meniscus this whole time but at least I have not gotten any finger or other injuries that limited my climbing.
@@GeekClimber You can also write "get strong", almost identical to "don't get injured"
Im not here to hate but u can achieve the front lever 100% if u just put in more time. People like sondre berg who also has really short, probebly even shorter arms then u achieved it after 10 years of FL training (he could do one arm muscleup, reping one arm pull ups, and are extremely strong in overall calisthenics). And when u say that u should have the strength becouse u able to to a one arm pull up and been training for a vary long time, i think u wrong. Frontlever needs vary specific training and doesnt use the same muscles and not in the same way as pull ups, one arm pull ups and muscleups. U just have to train more and get stronger, its a painful truth but its the truth. I love your content and i would love to see you achieve the front lever one day! keep it up, i belive in u!:D
@Despize Perform every human beings has a immense potential ,always remember 👍
@Despize Perform not really sondre learned frontlever 2021 and are aloooot stronger than geekclimber, so geek shouldnt thnk his strong enought
@ACf bro did u just compared Geek Climber to Sondre Berg? This guy is full time sportsman, this is his life. For 'average' tall people who have to work, study, take care of family its close to impossible to reach that level of strength and such elements. Even for him it took few years. I just don't like this twisted motivation speak aka 'you can achive it even if youre tall/fat cause this one dude in entire world can do it as well' . This is rather unmotivating and sounds ridiculous than something that could help with front level or planche for example.
@@Marcin18x dude it was just an example of someone that has really bad genetics, alooot worse then Geekclimber. But still his math is wrong… people is out here doing weighted viktorian and frontlever to victorian which means u have a aloot bigger lever.
It's not about absolute arm length, it's about how close the arms are to center of mass/arm length RATIO. If a person has proportionately short legs, they can still have a better leverage for front lever, if their legs are correspondingly short. There is not a rings specialist today that has relatively short arms and long legs. If you look at the taller guys that achieved front lever or planche, they have relatively long arms even for their height. Every one of the top rings specialists has short legs, from what I've seen, but you may be right that he could still achieve it with time!
I really hope you continue the front lever, i am 188cm tall and about 80kg and also struggle with it (at halflay rn) and struggle to find motivation sometimes
be patient and take your time i am 1,94cm and 89kg and did my first full front lever in 2021 and trained it for over 2 years
you are already at halflay that means you are damn close to a full one just remember how far you have come with this height and weight thats crazy!
maybe look for different exercises.. my key exercises to unlock the front lever were full front lever rises with resistance band and dragon flags
@@marvinj3013 thanks man, i am gonna start a new program after my deload this week and try to be as consistent as possible, i am doing all types of front lever exercise just no dragon flags since i dont have anywhere to do them and yes i am close to it and hope that ill achieve it in february
I feel the struggle :) i am 197cm and 103kg... i can hold a clean one leg adv. Tuck lever for around 7-9 sec :) even tho it needs time to get there i am sure ill get it some day
@@niklaswagner4438 sure thing man, only a matter of time
on that stage ur really close to a full frontlever , try this dynamics they will help u alot full fl raises(all the way up if u can or just at half the rom) , fl negatives and boost up ur pulling strenght with weighted pullups if u can (fl its mostly back strenght)
I'm 1.88m and 81Kg with -3cm ape index. I unlocked the front lever when I started incorporating deadlift into my training. Keeping the bar close to your body is a very similar thing to holding front lever. Also: "Tail end of athletic career"???? I started lifting at mid 40's and am stronger now at 47 (both in the gym and climbing, did first V9 this year!) Just train and stop putting artificial limits on your capabilities. Training the front lever will help your climbing, whether you achieve the full thing or not. It's not all about youtube views you know.... ;)
I agree with many things said here. Firstly with deadlift improving one's straight arm pulling strength. I use a trap bar, which I recommend to anyone who isn't pursing powerlifting specifically, and when I do pull ups later in my workout I am flying up the bar from the deadlifts earlier. Holding the at the top of the deadlift is great for your upper back muscles.
Secondly it bummed me out to hear our friend GeekClimber to hear him speak with such bleak terms and with "limiting self-beliefs". It is not impossible for him or for anyone to not achieve something like a front lever or any other personal feat. It may be more difficult for someone to achieve than someone else, he may need to defer away from some goals or hobbies in order to focus on it, but those are different mindsets than "it's impossible for me". If he said "in order for me to achieve the front lever I would have to focus too exclusively on it and that would take away from too many things that I like to do" that would be a very different message
@@petermozuraitis5219 Straight bar is slightly more specific to front lever, but nothing wrong with the trap bar!
Please show me a short clip of yourself doing the front lever, preferably with a side view. Will use your achievement as my motivation.
@@GeekClimber The one on my Insta doesn't have the best view, I'll tag you in it. I'll try and film a new one during my testing session next week.
1.78m, 60kg, 0 ape index, can do front lever: whine less, train more.
I would be interested in seeing the math. I've been training the front lever for a year now and still at a low progression but I hope to achieve it in the new year. Best wishes on the 2022 goals!
good luck
Good luck bro, it could be hard sometimes to see ppl reaching the full front in just 5 months or even less, but for each person its a different journey, im personally in my 8/9 months of front lever and I still dont have it but its coming !
You got it bro good luck 🤞🏻
Same here bro, I have been working with front lever for over a year, but only able to hold 3-4 second of straddle front. Good luck and hope we can both achieve the front lever in 2022
@@MinhVu-sy3oc Let's come back to this thread when we all have our solid 5 second full
holds
You can still do the front lever man ! Dont give up !
To learn the full planche, our shoulders need to be able to produce torque at a specific angle. For you, that angle will be 47-48 degrees because this is your front lever angle. To develop strength at that angle, we can use either straight arm or bent arm pushing exercises. As long as our range of motion in these pushing exercises includes the shoulder angle of full planche.
In regards to front lever, it is the same. We need to choose pulling exercises that emphasize our front lever angle and track our progress by measuring torque produced as well as shoulder angle.
It sucks to hear that the front lever is no longer a practical goal for you, and that there’s been so much pressure from your viewers to force progression in your calisthenics journey. But thanks for sharing all of this and wishing you well.
I think he can learn the front lever he got one arm pull up and his a rock climber I met a guy at the rock climbing gym he can front lever and one arm pull up he also do weighted pull ups .
Also he doesn’t even train front lever I think rock climbing band weighted pull up has carry over to front lever
I'm gonna make a few points that will give you the motivation to train this skill again and finally achieve it.
1. Front lever is ranked A in the Gymnastics Code of Points, A rank skills are accessible and most rings gymnasts have short arms.
2. Most calisthenics athletes with only a few years of training can do wide front lever (Lower angle than the one you claim is your angle) and Elbow Front Lever (WAAAAY lower angle than your angle). These are skills achievable by regular people not freakish athletes with amazing genetics.
3. Front lever has way more specific strength than you think, especially for people with shorter angles. The strength you built from your one arm pull up and weighted pull up is not fully transferable to your Front Lever. The muscles that are more directly impacted with shorter angle is the Forearm (Heavy Activation), the Spinal Extensors (Heavy Activation), The Rhomboid (Medium Activation), the Rear Delt (light activation), the lats (light activation), and the triceps (light activation). Basically strengthening your grip and your spinal extensors will be enough to perform the skill. Since One arm pull up typically comes with a ton of grip strength, think about doing some horizontal rows to your waistline, on a machine. Or Some Sumo deadlifts, with the lats engaged promoting thoracic extension. Holding the bottom of the sumo deadlift will have the most cross over to the front lever.
Looking forward to seeing some front lever gains!! I was not able to even come close to do Front lever for many YEARS! It wasn't until I changed my training method (NO MORE PROGRESSIONS). I only trained the front lever in the full position using assistance like a band around my waist. Weight pullups to promote grip and lat strength. Machine rows to improve center back strength. and finally Sumo deadlift holds to keep happy and strong spinal extensors. Now I can do weighted front levers, front lever raises, and other difficult exercises I thought I would never achieve. You do not need big bulky muscles, you simply need to improve the strength in the muscles that are used for the exercise.
I love your opinion from a perspective of someone who has no talent but want to achieve his goals, very inspiring
This was the most interesting math I've ever seen. You really put a lot of work into your videos. I was watching the whole video with my eyes glued to the screen!
The math and research you make is unbelievable. You can train others only using your brain. You're special mate. Cheers!
i have the same problem, but when you see people doing victorian front lever
(almost zero degree angle) you realize its absoloutely possible' just very hard
Hey bro you can definitely achieve the front lever if you just keep training on it, the closer I get to the full front lever ,in my experience, the harder to make progress because of the more disadvantaged position of lats, however, it did make progress just not that noticeable so just don’t give up there.
It took me 7 months from tucked to straddle then 4 months from straddle to full FL, I was thinking I would be stuck with straddle forever though.
I was a marathon runner and my upper body was really skinny, I couldn’t do even one single pull up, I spent 2 years to build my muscle and basic strength before start calisthenics training. Now I’m training for one arm pull up and your tutorial is absolutely the best I can find! Thank you and good luck with your journey, you’re a legend already!👍
That’s crazy man I was to be a cross country runner and track runner also triathlon. It took me 10-11 months to get to the straddle front lever 3-5 secs sadly some days I couldn’t even straddle front lever I keep on working on the 1 leg front lever progression. Right now I’m 1 years and 3 months in the front lever training and I still haven’t achieved it yet I’m 5 ft 11 weighing 190lbs front lever is a struggle . Is it possible for me to front lever . I achieve the human flag,muscle up,one arm push up,handstand and straddle back lever ?
Do a front lever with a weighted jacket. Curious if a slight change in center of gravity would help you
Ooh that's a really good idea!
It's good to be modest about goals, allowing for physical limitations, especially with age.
It's the way of wisdom!
Sondre Berg is an example of short arms/angle. In some of his interviews he says that it took him around 7 years to achieve the front lever.
So it's not about the destination , bad genetics and giving up because of them. It's all about enjoyning the journey because it's not a marathon. It may take you 20 years or 30 or 40 to achieve a front lever. But it's not about how long it takes. It's about consistency , discipline , failing to progressive overload , experimenting , patience and much more.
Me for example, I have a goal of achieving a Victorian with narrow grip. An exercise which I never saw performed (all the athletes who have done Victorian did it with very wide grip) and I can currently do no more than 15 pull ups. That sounds insane and it may take me 10+ years or never to get this skill , taking in consideration that training isn't even my full time job. But I won't care if I try 35 years without getting it. Along the journey I'll have learned soo much.
So enjoy training bro. Don't train with a stress of performing better because you have to show your front lever online.
Finally, think about this : if a guy from the future comes and tells you that you'll never ever achieve the front lever ,will you keep training it or not? If no,then there's a very high possibility that you're not enjoying the journey. Try to make the answer of this question a "yes" and front lever will be the most beautiful journey ever.
You are the first one that explained the arm-length difference in front lever in a un arguable way! Well done on the Maths!
Good luck with your goals! You are putting some great authentic content on the internet, and I love it! I hope that you'll keep training, moving, and climbing, at least for the next 20 years!!
I just wanted to say that I understand why you went to such efforts to understand the factors with the front lever, and I don't view it as "crying" or an excuse. You even said "if I see video of someone doing it at a smaller degree arc than me, I'll reconsider", and that's fair!
At the same time, I think it's worth a re-evaluation. I think I've seen some comments that have mentioned other ways of training (using bands to offset the exact position, instead of the usual progressions), or given other suggestions to train other muscle groups. I'm too ignorant to know if they are right, or if you are right, but I think it is worth looking into a bit further.
And just think about this-- if you end up reconsidering, and trying different protocols, and end up progressing / getting way closer, you'll have so much valuable info to share about that journey. You'd have overcame a huge amount of adversity, and can then relay that knowledge to anyone else that feels defeated by it.
I know you keep up with this TH-cam channel to inspire and to educate, and I know whatever you end up doing, you will do that.
Happy new year, and thanks for all of the content I've seen so far ❤️
your videos are great , very informative no bs and no blind trust from others because all bodies are different you are a great example for everyones athletic journey
Happy new year everyone
I've already seen some of the following points in the comments, but here are some thoughts.
You might be weak in the specific angle required for a full front lever because your nervous system is not using the available muscle mass very efficiently, since the angle that you trained in the straddle half lay and easier progression was different enough that the strength transfer was only partial.
And there are some muscles that are used in the front lever but one arm pull up training might not have strengthened much, like the triceps (both heads used for arm lockout, long head also contributes to shoulder extension) and mid-low traps+rhomboids for scapular retraction (actually neutral scapula is a stronger position than fully retracted, but those muscles get the scapula out of protraction), horizontal pulling movements would strengthen those more than oap.
Regarding bent arm strength training, it's recommended because it's easier to use it for muscle growth than only training with straight arms, so it allows you to build up the muscle mass in the right muscles used in straight arm moves, so an efficient program would include both bent/straight arm training at the same time or use some form of periodization alternating them.
Nice comment
I was in a similar position: try wearing a weighted vest while doing a tucked front lever. I progressed the weight in that position for a few months, took off the vest, and I found I could hold a perfect front lever for sets of 20-30 seconds, which was more than enough to begin training the move. I believe this will work for you.
How many pounds is your weighted vest? I can human flag but can front lever and my friend can front lever but can’t human flag. I’m also curious is front lever easier than human flag ?
@@BreakingJJC It was only 8.8 pounds worth of bars (4 bars total). Start with a single bar, and when you're able to hold a full 60 seconds in the tucked lever, add another bar. I know it doesn't sound like a lot of weight, but in positions with compromised leverage, it's more than enough to get the job done. Don't rush to increase the weight. Take your time and be kind to your joints. Regarding flags, really depends on someone's proportions. I've known shorter guys who can do a flag with no training.
@@meowth8225thanks for the info. I’m wondering if you were talking about the tucked lever or the advanced tucked lever?
As the person who progress really fast with planche and hspu (full planche and 2x 90 degree push ups in ~6 months), but I am still struggling with straddle front lever for the past 3 years, it makes sense for me. Hope you can achieve your goal in 2022, cheer!
YOOO LETS GO KEEP GRINDING MAN, as a 17 year old, I changed a fk ton this year and besically didn't complete any of my goals, but I still had fun this year, and the main thing I learned is that keep doing things that you love, even if you aren't really good at it. Small simple steps can get you really far, of course it's paired with 8 hours of sleep and motivation that lasts for a long time!! 🔥
Try the front lever with only hanging on the tip of your fingers. (Makes your arms longer)
Ohhhh-, also wonder if adding some type of straps to the bar to extend the length of his arms from the bar would work???
@@JocieFire straps would be pulled by your body downward. There is no way they extend your arms
@@JocieFire That wouldn't work because you would be hanging off the straps instead of the bar.
@@maximmilet1862 Yeahh, realized this...even if it was a rigid extended handgrip I am guessing it is about your center of gravity and not the bar. Seems like there should be some physical way to get around the physics....weighted backpack maybe???
@@JocieFire Your center of mass needs to be under your support for remaining in balance (your hands or as I suggest your fingers. It would be ideal to have more weight from the shoulders up, so a person with a really long neck or a really trained neck will have an easier time. You can try adding 2 kg (4 lbs) on your neck (even higher would be better like on your forehead), and you'll immediately feel the difference. (The same applies for planche)
=> So neck training, perhaps.
The secret to a good front lever is not practising progressions - but to practise more and more pull ups, weighted pulls til you can pull 60-70%of your body weight for 6-8 reps. Don't focus on 1 rep max. What I am coming to realise is a good front lever is an organic byproduct of a good pulling strength and as excited I was to get the FL, now I am more keen on getting better pulls and the FL will follow.
1. I found transition from straddle half lay to full half lay by performing high pull ups with a resistance band 2wice a week.
2. Practise more weighted pull-ups till you are able to pull your 2x bodyweight - this will take care of back hypertrophy. Also you should have a pull day twice a week where on the second session you are doing 6-8 reps of maybe 2/3rd of your 1 rep max. There is a very good video on the 'Russian method' of improving pull numbers by Dominik Sky. The pulls have to be strict - scapula depressed, and with proper form. If you find your form flaky decrease the weight to which you are comfortable to perform it with proper form. These strengthen the very muscles needed for the FL - depressed scapula, engaged lats.
3. Also don't pull yourself into a half lay, practise first walking into a half lay. This will reduce fatigue. So I do by placing a dip bar on two chairs and walk into it and can do a good half lay. On a bar my half lay is still in a straddle but at a lower height it is proper and I can hold it for 6 seconds for reps
I am 39yo with zero climbing experience and currently do a 40kg pull ups at 62 kg bw and have been taking coaching sessions from some of the folks you have cited - I feel some things need better coaching and programming.
keep working hard and you'll get them for sure and good work with the content (congrats on 200000 subscirbers)
If you are week in those degrees, just train those degrees? Full front iso with loop band will let you accumulate volume in that position. Front lever raises (at a lower progression, one leg maybe) from horizontal position to top position (when u are upside down with legs up in the sky) will help you train the lesser degrees of your lat pull down strength too. And never stop working your weighted pull ups alongside front lever training: it keeps feeding the front lever with a huge transfert.
the halflay straddle is a cool variation in it's own right. I wouldn't give up after unlocking an advanced variation like that even if I knew I couldn't progress to the next variation.
Anyone can do the front lever. With static strength it's just a matter of time. I knew a guy that was 6'4" with a -4 ape index that just kept training front lever. It took him about 3 years which is 3x longer than most people, but he did it. If you really want it then be consistent. Progress may be measured in years and not weeks or months. Of course if you aren't willing to chip away at it for that long then that's understandable. It can be gruelling and not being able to progress to the next variation for months can demoralizing. The end resut may be worth the effort though.
I want to add that if you feel training front lever isn't helping your climbing then it may be an inappropriate goal to set for yourself and therefore not worth the effort.
Just started my road to planche a week ago. The push strength really helps as I had been doing a lot of push up exercises beforehand. What people often fail to realize with push ups is that controlled scapula engaged reps at the top with protraction really helps you develop the strength to hold at least a tucked planche a lot easier
I have to correct your physics here Geek Climber because I see this same mistake made all the time. The difficulty of the front lever is (broadly) determined by two things: your weight, and the horizontal distance from your centre of mass to your shoulders. The product of these two numbers is the torque on the shoulder. Your arm length is pretty much inconsequential: yes, shorter arms will mean a smaller angle, but they don't affect the distance between your shoulders and centre of mass.
What *will* affect this distance is the position you hold your body in --- tuck, straddle, half lay, etc. Since your arms are of fixed length, the angle at the shoulder changes as you change position, and hence this angle acts as a proxy for difficulty --- for a given individual. The error people make is using shoulder angle to compare *different* people, with different mass distributions and limb lengths, where they should really be comparing the fundamental measure: torque at the shoulder.
The body morphology that *really* suffers when it comes to the front lever is simply a bottom-heavy one. If you have heavy legs or a long torso (so that your heavy hips are further south), your centre of mass will be further from your shoulders and the move will be more difficult for you than for most other people of your weight. However, one shouldn't be lured into thinking that packing on mass around the chest and upper back will help matters here: yes, your centre of mass will be moved upwards, but you'll also be heavier. In fact, any extra weight added south of the shoulder will provide an extra torque and make the exercise more difficult. The only way to make the exercise easier in this way is to add weight around the head or neck, which provides a counter torque. More sensibly, one should strive to lose weight in general, and in the lower body in particular.
Finally, as for your lat pull down experiment: the reason this exercise became so much harder is simply because the weight was moved further from your shoulders as you decreased the shoulder angle, and the torque was proportionally greater. If you decreased the shoulder angle but kept the bar the same horizontal distance away from your shoulders, by setting the bar against the wrists or even forearms, you should find that the difficulty stays fairly constant. Indeed, a false grip front lever should feel of comparable difficulty to a regular grip front lever, even though this shortens your arms even further.
The front lever is bloody hard and requires huge amounts of upper back strength. The only thing holding you back is your mind.
I wish more people saw this reply!
Wow, this is why I find the front lever so easy.
How about not caring too much about proper form? Try to achieve a slightly bent arm front lever and clean it up over the years. There are people doing victorian cross or touch front lever so the angle between arms and shoulders is also closer even if they have an advantage for normal Front Lever. Having a disadvantage is no excuse for something you really want to achieve! ;)
I dont think front lever is harder for short arm people even if the angle changes, because shorter arms also means reduce leverage : its easier to apply force closer to you, try to front lever with a false grip youll see the angle may be harder but applying force should be easier too
my goal is to reach 2 finger planche untill the end of this year.
Now I am able to do 18 push ups with 2 fingers, and hold 16 seconds planche (also 4 planche push ups)
(also now I am 15, and watched you since 13. Followed your trainings, and BOOM)
You literally said in the video, that you don't have enough muscles to do it by saying, that you have way too light your upper body, so your center is a bit lower then theirs.
I've been training both front lever and planche with heavy use of calisthenics bands and very little focus on traditional progressions (tuck / adv tuck / frog / straddle / full). Your videos have helped me a lot in my training, so I'm hoping this will be helpful to you. What I like about bands over traditional progressions is that using bands breaks progress down into measurable bite sized chunks making progression way easier to see, especially when measuring in assist torque instead of raw force.
For my own training I recently worked out the math for the assist torque provided by each of my bands at specific positions. If I'm doing things right, the assist torque equals the raw assist force times the distance in feet from the fulcrum (my shoulders). The raw force of a band at a specific position can be measured with any device that calculates hanging weight such as a fishing scale.
So if I measure a band as giving 20lb of assist when stretched to the length it will be in during a front lever, then at at 1ft away from my shoulders that provides 20 foot-pounds of torque, while at 2 ft it provides ~40 foot-pounds. All the way at my ankles the assist torque is roughly 100 foot-pounds. Thanks to that, I now have an pretty clear number for how far I have left go that also happens to plot nicely onto a graph.
I swear I was excited about front lever
When are we getting a video about your 2022 progress. I would really like to see your approach to back levers as there isn't a lot of content out there! Love your videos
I remember myself being a bit surprised about your long way to front lever, when at the same time I was progressing quite well (but I was mostly repeating lowering body with bent one leg). Now I achieved about one second of front lever, not perfect form yet and you made me think that I defintely need to take a picture and measure my arm to body angle and compare myself with informations you have provided. All the best for New Year, I'm sure your'e gonna acheive all the goals without any injuries! ;)
I have struggled with front lever so far !! Thanks for your research
You can achieve FL for sure. Your just giving yourself excuses. It takes time to get stronger bro.
Short arms make it harder but I don't think this means it is unachievable. Search up front lever to Victorian on yt. The angle their arms make is very small, maybe like 5degrees.
I just searched for Victorian, and I am shocked by these people, haha. They gotta be the top 0.00001%. Do you think guys like Chris Heria and Daniel Vadnal is able to do this insane move? In any case, I would agree with you that I shouldn't have use the word "impossible", should've used "highly improbable".
@@GeekClimber nope, check out urbanik
Definitely! Im pretty sure Chris heria or Daniel vadnal haven't done it as it is rare even for pro gymnasts. Anyways, I wouldn't give up on the front lever just yet.
@@GeekClimber Dominik Sky can do it.
great vid as always bro!
Stop complaining mate 😀. It took me over 2 years to achieve straddle planche and full frontlever, but I did it with a proper trainings. If you dont have predispositions (like me) it will be much harder, but still doable. Planche is not a maltese on rings ;)
Just because it might be harder for you than some, doesn't mean it is unattainable. It is a tough road for many, and many also suffer injuries during the process. Take a break and attack it again later. Best of luck!
When I was a beginner in calisthenics L-sit to handstand was the first move I taught myself so I wanted to offer some advice that helped me. I first attempted it from a frog stand position, kind of like a tuck planche but with bend arms and my legs resting on my arms. Contrary to your belief, I used athlean-x’s 22 day push up challenge to get my push-ups from about 30 to 45 reps at the same time and it helped me significantly. I didn’t do any handstand push-up exercises simply because they were too hard at the time and weren’t helping me make progress, so I decided to get better and something easier. After about a month of doing around 100 push-ups a day and attempting the press from the frog position, I got the full L-sit to handstand press. What you’re going for is much easier than from an L-sit and I think you might even get it quicker than I did if you try out my method and see how it works for you
Hey Geek, interesting approach to the possibilities of front lever! I like it! Have you checked the angles of women who are able to do the front lever? Naturally they should have a even worse centre of gravity point, right?
actually I think having boobs would make the upper body heavier allowing for a bigger angle.
Finally a youtuber who weighs as much as I do!
One math equation doesn't prove anything in my opinion, there are many factors in real life physics considering the human body. You can certainly achieve front lever, look at what you can do already! Some people take longer than others. 1 year is actually not a lot of time of training. Some people it takes multiple years to achieve front lever. I'm 181 cm 80 kg and could still hold 5 sec front lever, there are 2 meter tall people doing planche as well! Your body is certainly good for this sport and you have really good strength. Keep at it bro! But if you train back lever as you said that is a good starting point. Never give up!
He already answer it 2:53 & 3:25
Very nice video, happy new year
There are many people doing a 0 degree front lever as well :)
Holding their arms completely down to their hips, while keeping horizontal
AND there are people doing front lever with one arm :P
Wish you and all the readers the best for the next years brahs!
Excellent summary, and I definitely feel your pain!
Looking forward to seeing how you get on with your bent arm press 👊🏿
p.s. show the maths!
Love your videos man
being able to do 100 pull ups in under 15mins (I have short arms too) helped me get my lever going
I got both the straddle and straight leg press to handstand without being able to do the bent arm press to handstand. It's all a matter of flexibility and compression. If you can touch your chin to the ground when doing pancake stretches, it doesn't take a lot of shoulder strength. If you can touch your chest to the ground in a pancake stretch, it's basically effortless.
Good Luck 🍀💪🏼
To prove the theory about weight on the front lever, wear a weighted vest and do an update! Very interested in this. Not doubting, just would like to see an experiment validation.
I am really interested in the physics behind calisthenics moves! One of the reasons I like your channel!
You are human, you can achieve front lever, no excuses bro
Dude, all you gotta do is be patient and continue your exersize, those other guys have been training alot longer than you have, courage and take stock in your personal progress!
What I really want for one of your upcoming videos is that, I want to see a video about how those challanges changed your body hypertrophy vise, how much muscle have you gained? You are awesome keep those geek content coming!
Unbelievable how some of the viewers dont consider that your push strength is still beginner, thats why it took a while for tuck planche
Bro turning calisthenics into physics 101, respect!
Front lever is not imposible for your body just still working hard and you will get it and more important dont lose your progress
I find it fascinating how different the difficulties are for different people. I learned back lever in a few months, and my roommate learned it in a month. But front lever has been pretty slow; I've been at it for a year and a half and I'm basically where you are. And I'm not even close to a one-arm pull up; at best I can pull about ⅔ of my bodyweight for a single rep.
I'm glad you're making people aware of how different body shapes affect the difficulty of these skills. That being said, you can change your body shape (aside from your height ofc) by eating more and putting on mass where you exercise. But I understand if you don't really want to.
Back lever is pretty easy. For me the front lever is also a big problem but I will strive hard to achieve it.
Even achieving one of your goals is a great accomplishment! Good work man! Hope you recover soon 👍🏽
I think that the front lever is 100% achievable for everyone... I'm from Italy and here there is a lot of great information about calisthenics skills training, unfortunately watching most foreign tutorials I see that there is a lot, and I mean A LOT of misinformation... for example, I achieved the full front lever just by training the tuck and adv tuck front lever with one/two exercises (and yes, I mean exercises, not sessions) a week, (it didn't only work on me) while most coaches would tell you: "train hard" "use eccentrics with harder progressions" etc... unfortunately in my opinion that's simply bs.
ps. now that I can hold a full front lever for a couple of seconds I still train tuck and adv tuck front only, low reps, low sets, mid to low intensity.
hope this comment helped you and others
sorry for my bad English, have a good day!
ps. obviously there is some misinformation in Italian tutorials as well, especially in the bigger channels
i agree, i have seen manuel caruso do a 100kg extra weight front lever. There is no way geekclimber, someone who i assume is average height cannot do the front lever.
100% agree with this! I was stuck at the one leg progression for 2 years until I learnt how to properly train for the skill. I achieved the full front lever after 4 years of calisthenics & can now hold it for 20+ seconds & am also capable of doing 4 front lever pullups touching the bar. The reason it took so long was because I wasnt training the right way & this is probably the case with geekclimber. For me the best way to gain strenght for the front lever is to train it greasing the groove style, builds up the neuromuscular connections & makes you much more efficient in the exercise
So, achieving the planche by only doing tuck and planche lean is possible ? Do you think that if i do only these exercises with progressive overload and low intensity everyday i would achieve a planche?
@@MusclesEducationCali I think the planche is a bit different, I would go with 1/2/3 exercices a week at first, and progressively overloading, I don't think you could achieve the planche just by training the tuck and planche lean, but the progression I would go for is: 1: planche lean 2: planche lean+tuck planche with a loop 3: tuck plamche with a loop 4: tuck planche with a loop+tuck planche etc... keep in mind that you have to do other complementary exercises as well to achieve skills easily, for example some complementary exercises for the planche are handstand pushups, pike pushups etc, for the front lever a good exercise could be pullups/weighted pullups etc... the key is not the specific training, but THE WHOLE WORKOUT PROGRAM!
You are genius . Love from INDIA ❤️
Love the front lever analysis. I tried for years, got the flag and even straddle planche within a couple of years, but just couldn't progress through FL. I personally find elbow lever helpful as a warmup to planche.
very inspirational and very approachable!
Love your videos!! One thing I will say is that the front lever is mostly back, then triceps so the one arm pullups only really did so much for front lever. My favorite exercise was the below parallel hold from a dead hang, This got me and some others the full front lever in 2 weeks from your current level
Lol! “Train hard. Be strong. Don’t be not strong.”
"Don't get injured"😂
In my opinion, something that is commonly overlooked is locking out your entire body correctly to maximize transfer of energy. This isn't easy to learn if you are not actively looking for it. Learning how to engage your core correctly with open hips is critically required to execute any calesthenics move correctly. Think power leaks. It is very difficult to move a 100lbs mattress compared to a 100lbs stiff piece of wood. I've found solidifying a strict to form dragon flag will teach/build the correct engagement needed to make your entire body move as 1 unit. There should be no curve in the body whatsoever in the dragon flag during concentric and eccentric portions of the move. It should look like a stiff plank the entire time. Once you develop the correct core engagement, pull ups, pushups, front lever, muscle up, handstands, planche, and much more will be much more efficient. The core doesn't necessarily need to be crazy strong, but as you learned along the way, it's all about proper muscle engagement. However, what needs to be strong is the serratus anterior. It is essential to be able to allow your lats to engage properly with your abs. A simple test is a pull up. If you do a pull up and your feet stray from its vertical plane, you are not engaging your core correctly. Meaning, during pull up, if your feet ever lifts up or strays forward away from under the bar, you don't have the right core engagement. It's should feel as though your abs are flexed, but you feel a stretch in your abs at the same time. Took me years to learn this on my own. Body position is key. Don't give up. Nothing in calesthenics is impossible. Just keep in mind, this is coming from a regular guy who learned this along the way. I'm not a coach or a pro, so I'm not 100% sure if this is correct. Just my 2 cents.
nothing is impossible i would just keep trying and one day you will get it. It all starts in your mind if you say it is impossible then you are right.
I would really like to hear about your injury/rehab process. You mentioned it potentially being "boring" but I find a lot of that stuff insightful and I think a HUGE part of climbing is overcoming injuries, and how you approach it physically and mentally. I know some people haven't injured themselves, but I think for the average person it is a pretty "normal" occurence (especially when you think about the strain we put our body under). I say this as someone who had a string of injuries and I agree - they absolutely suck, but I am always so curious to know what peoples journeys are like with the rehab. Hope you will reconsider :).
Thanks and happy new year!
Good luck with your press to handstand goal. I started working on handstand last year (2021) and am now looking to progress to a press movement. It currently feels like my feet are glued to the floor. How do people make this look so easy? 😁. Btw, I started climbing at age 51, working towards my first V6 this year. You're never too old.
Dont worry about not achieving goals, you achieved one arm pull up which is very good, and dont think its impossible to do front lever, I also only achieved one goal this year Which is Full rom(Floor) freestanding handstand Push ups, but this year Im sure I will get much more...
For the handstand pushups, negatives and static holds on the bottom are important. You also need to work on your balance, because otherwise you cant focus on generating strength. Try hitting at least a 45 second freestanding hold. Another thing that helped me tremendously was going handstand ---> tuck ---> L-sit as slow as possible. And finally, try doing negatives straddle handstand ---> bent arm straddle planche. Source: I rep out 90 degree hspu and taught handstands and hspu to 2 of my workout buddies. All of luck to you! With these exercises, it shouldnt take more than 2 months tops, if you do them at least twice a week (more often the better). Once you unlock the hspu, the press handstand will come with it as well as L-sit to handstand, automatically.
Crazy idea. Instead of training to get extra upper body weight to make the center of mass better, just add weight like weighted bands or something?
Could you do a video about how not to get injured? I watched your video about how you did, and the conclusion was not to push yourself too hard and know when to stop. Apart from that, is there anything you would like to share? I've just started climbing, so everything you have to say should be new and interesting. I like your take on things, your precision and honesty, keep up the good work. Happy New Year!
How about adding a weight vest, or some kind of small extra load to your shoulders to move your centre of gravity?
If you can pull 1.2x your BW at a natural angle for your arms, perhaps adding 5 or 10% of your BW on your shoulders will assist you, whilst not overloading your max strength capabilities.... (Not sure it'll work, but I'm sure you'll do the math and decide if it's worth a try :) )
This. Check out the Magnus Midtbø video where they do two person front lever, and mention how much easier it is with the added weight.
YES! I would love to see him try this.
Love your videos man! Maybe the best info on the calisthenic skills. Appreciate your feedback on the front lever. Been working on that myself.
Nice video! Really appreciate your honesty about your abilities and goals. It's hard to make realistic goals and it's even harder if you have to accept that you won't make your goals.
Fascinating investigate work!
Epic bringing the math in!
For the front lever, remember to do a core strength test too! If your core strength isn’t good enough, training your core is much easier than only training front lever.
To test your core strength, place your upper back on a platform and anchor yourself on something with your arms. Then see if you can lift your legs off the ground!
I have a dumb question. If you were to put on a weighed vest, would that help you do the front lever ?
Yup
A tip for the bent arm handstand press is to try a smaller progression. Start from a frog stand and press up to handstand. Depending on how much you bend your elbow, you will still have similar mechanics of the handstand push-up, but the lever distance of your leg is decreased (like a tucked bent arm handstand press rather than straight legs/pike)
so it might be easier for you to do front lever if you wear a weighted vest?
There's probably a sweet spot. Wearing a weight vest will increase the angle which makes it easier, but the overall weight you need to pull becomes bigger which makes it harder.
@@GeekClimber yeah that's right. But since you're soooo good at training and gaining strength, I feel that you would be able to do front lever with extra weight if the angle is right.
Anyway, another great video as always! Keep it up in 2022👍👍👍