I've run into the same backlash issues in the past as well, you just gotta go with what gets you the closest and live with it. I have had luck in the past running a heavier weight gear lube. One wouldn't think it would do much but I've found it to help, and being a parade tractor, unless your planning on attending Christmas parades you could get by with thicker oil.
@@squatch253 Yeah that's one of those questions of is it worth the time and effort for the little bit they sing for the amount of time you use it. I look at it this way, your used to the sound already and the time spent on a repair such as that takes time away from projects one would rather be doing!
Great job finding what works best for your setup. It has to be hard when dealing with old used parts making everything match-up. I am surprised how well everything worked, you did a good job setting yourself up for success.
As usual, a very professional and enjoyable video. Thanks! As an old retired professor/physician/scientist/fart, I feel I must make a comment on your notes. There are many variables that have been studied among scientists, but the one that stands out the most for me is that winners of the Nobel Prize for Medicine keep excellent lab records. You keep excellent lab records. As such I wish to nominate you for the new Nobel Prize category of Industrial Equipment! Thank you so much for sharing your lab book - er - bible. Just tremendous. Over and out.
Awesome news and its OK to smile" the air is good for your teeth". Boy keeping a note book is the way to go. If I don't keep notes on something this involved I start second guessing myself.
Did you load the axle splines as under load that`ll change the pattern too , I used to set Ford carriers and Most CR - Pin on cars at 1/8 at lower Crown index the pattern would sink to center on the fat side hold the axle so the spiders turn , The paint showed center to 3/4 high on the crown ya 000.7 to 000.11 ,, But I`d smoke the Pinion shaft to set the Crush sleeve before doing the pattern .But if it`s a daisy tractor it should do fine careful if ever do a pull contest .
You really couldn't get more professional at restoring old tractors that Squatch253. In every possible way he explains what, why and how he's getting X231 back to parade duty running. I've said it before and I'll say it again. He could easily be a top notch mechanical arts vocational school instructor if he chose to be one. Any subscriber who drops his channel because of this series is loosing out on one of the most fascinating ones on TH-cam. Their lose, our gain.
Glad you got it dialed in. My "trans guy" always has set up my 9" and Dana 60's for me. Luckily his son is taking over the shop. After 40 years,he's getting ready to retire. Getting hard to hang on to the really old school shops even here in Detroit.Thanks for posting.
Great video. Thanks for the clear explanation on your thought process behind the contact pattern on the worn gear set. I've only built one differential (Ford 9") and it was interesting to watch.
In my opinion this is the fun part ,as long as the parts are clean and new brgs. A little time consuming but its just figuring it out. Thanks for sharing this with us!
You are making GREAT progress bud, and this is all good news. With how detailed this restoration is getting... I have a feeling we might make it to a part "100"! :-D
You hinted at it in the video, but I was always taught to load the gears slightly when checking the contact pattern. As you said, things are different under tension.
I found over the years to check backlash in a couple of places as I have found some small crown wheel run out. Probably not as important on used gears. Im enjoying your videos, thanks.
I actually had to think the first time you said about kind of mesh you wished to achieve. It was mesh(singular,you),not messes(plural,me) that I had to think about. I remember a guy I worked with doing blue on a 70s Corvette. If that Vette is still around,it ain't with the diff he was so proud to show me. Getting a decent working contact pattern with used gears is not always easy. You said about 4 hours. I am not at all surprised. Truck brakes ,air conditioning and GM front ends I was good at. Differentials I was content to leave to others. Did that when I had to. Does not mean I was good at it.
@@squatch253 Two of my favorite TH-cam channels are guys working on wooden boats. They post one ~30-minute video every two weeks, and it's maddening, but they are also each working on one very linear project. I think/hope most of your followers have a sense of how sporadic the progress on some of your projects has to be at times. I imagine the issue of finding parts throws wrenches into the spokes of the repair processes pretty frequently. But your channel is more like watching a soap opera, where there are different story lines running concurrently. At first I just wanted to see 5J1113 videos (it had a great start to the story arc, when you weren't sure you could even get it out from behind the house), but I've really come to appreciate X231 and what I call the Frankenpillar, and the fork holder color matched to the 8M (wish you'd showed the welding...would have been interesting), and you turning your truck into a Christmas tree (I kid, I kid...good work on the lights!), and the tractor shows (I didn't know such things existed). Bottom line: Your videos are consistently interesting, and I think it's better to have more, shorter videos than fewer, longer ones. No need for you to stress over them. Just my .02, and probably not worth even that, especially when adjusted for inflation.
This is, I know, a critical set up. I'm sure glad that these 'old' gears are going to be good for this transmission. This one was really interesting to watch in progress. Good stuff!
I cracked a smile so you don't have to. I may have even laughed, but that raises the question. Does a lone engineer in his office make a sound when he laughs?
I feel like the gear mesh pattern is an ideal place to start? Over time and with some real load that will push that gear together better? I know this takes a lot of patience I rebuilt a rear end on a truck out in the field. Not easy.
@@squatch253 Really appreciate the effort that I know must be involved in doing the restoration and documenting the process on TH-cam at the same time.
Nice work. Yeah, with worn gearsets you have to make compromises... moreso when you can't just order up a new R&P. Have never set up a tractor but a lot of car and truck axles and it looks mostly the same. IMO your decision making was spot-on!
As I watched you put this together, I was thinking I would just cut some .005 thou shims from some SS shim stock and try that. But not everyone works in a laser shop. Nice job fabricating your own
You gave me a chuckle when you ended your last video. For any one who has done this before you would’ve had their undivided attention. I had the same experience on a Willys CJ5 after replacing the bearings on both axles. After replacing all of the shims in the original positions the front axles ring pattern was riding towards the heel, but still wide on the pitch line. Then when I moved the pinion in and ring away I would get a sharp pattern on the pitch line. I deduced that the pinion was always riding more towards the heel and when I tried to move towards the toe it went into an area that was outside of the original wear area. I must admit it was very frustrating. The 1960 Motor Manual that I was using told you how to shim a new ring and pinion, but not a worn set. At least I was able to work on mine on a bench.
That's why I like the Ford 9 inch third member ring and pinion setup and others like it. Pretty easy to dial in. I have watched mechanics at the dealership I worked at and they don't stick a dial indicator on the differential to check backlash or check pinion depth or preload. I guess they just know...or do they. I guess I would rather know. I can see this step to take a lot of time to do. You almost smiled...
There is only one way to do gear contact, and that is exactly as how you have done, trial and error, over and over, to get the very best possible contact you can. Amateurs and hackers stop early and say "close enough"., and then wonder why the gear train is noisy and didn't last. With the pattern you achieved , I wouldn't be afraid to hook on to a set of three bottoms and head across virgin ground. Well done!
Not time to start shining teeth pal and if everything was new it'd work a lot different. When stuff has a lot of hours on it we just have to do the best we can. Snow is still hanging here even thought it's been in the 40's but there's rain on the way. So stay warm, keep on plugging and Hi 2 Pop!
Nice work, differential setup is time consuming and frustrating to say the least. Not shown here, all the head scratching, seemingly endless attempts at combinations that don't work, only to end up scratching your head when you end up basically where you started. Nice work!
Super interesting video as ever, keep them coming! Out of interest do you do all your own sand blasting, couldn’t help but notice the tank in the background. If so what size blaster tank do you recommend along with compressor size? Thanks.
If X231 ever has to work again, the torque will pull the ring and pinion together, plenty good for a parade tractor. Good notes save a lot of repeated steps.
I’m wondering why they didn’t have provisions for pinion depth shims... this would allow you to tailor the pinion depth better (instead of using the case gaskets). I also agree with you about the contact pattern, I think that when loaded, it will fall into place. I was taught to check contact pattern by loading the ring and pinion while rotating it. I understand vehicles are different than tractors, and I can see it would be a little difficult to load the gear set inside the case. My comments are just observations, and not meant in any way to say your doing it wrong. As I don’t rebuild tractors and am just a lowly mechanic. -Jason
Yeah, better conserve those smiles...wouldn't want to run out, just in case you find yourself holding a puppy. P.S. Can your camera shoot time lapse (e.g., one frame every 10 seconds), or can your video editing software compress time? It might be kind of interesting to see 4.5 hours of you adding and subtracting and moving spacers between sides if it were compressed into, say, 15 to 30 seconds. Just a thought.
@@squatch253 I actually think you chase your tail all the damn time!!! Your videos are sometimes like the earlier Batman movies, where one moment you see Batman way off in the distance and then *PRESTO* he's hanging upside down right behind the bad guy and you're, like, "What the wha....?" A soundtrack over the sped up parts wouldn't be a bad thing, though I'll probably let you know if I think your taste in music sucks. (jk...gopher it!)
![CAMPปลิ้น | EP.82[1/2] แก๊ง 3 สาวเพื่อนซี้บุก CAMPปลิ้นครั้งนี้ห้ามเสียอาการ](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/_6WUjXHe1TM/mqdefault.jpg)
I've run into the same backlash issues in the past as well, you just gotta go with what gets you the closest and live with it. I have had luck in the past running a heavier weight gear lube. One wouldn't think it would do much but I've found it to help, and being a parade tractor, unless your planning on attending Christmas parades you could get by with thicker oil.
@@squatch253 Yeah that's one of those questions of is it worth the time and effort for the little bit they sing for the amount of time you use it. I look at it this way, your used to the sound already and the time spent on a repair such as that takes time away from projects one would rather be doing!
Great job finding what works best for your setup. It has to be hard when dealing with old used parts making everything match-up. I am surprised how well everything worked, you did a good job setting yourself up for success.
As usual, a very professional and enjoyable video. Thanks! As an old retired professor/physician/scientist/fart, I feel I must make a comment on your notes. There are many variables that have been studied among scientists, but the one that stands out the most for me is that winners of the Nobel Prize for Medicine keep excellent lab records. You keep excellent lab records. As such I wish to nominate you for the new Nobel Prize category of Industrial Equipment! Thank you so much for sharing your lab book - er - bible. Just tremendous. Over and out.
Not a mechanic so I especially appreciate the detailed explanations you provide. Thank you for sharing your work.
it is truly a archive in a league of its own, the youtube archive. but what does a 24yo know?
I am a mechanic, and am very impressed with the quality of your work. Great Job!
Really enjoying the videos. Wish they were longer! Awesome craftsmanship.
Your attention to detail is awesome, great work........Mike
This series is the best mechanical build I have ever watched! Congratulations on the fit!
Awesome news and its OK to smile" the air is good for your teeth". Boy keeping a note book is the way to go. If I don't keep notes on something this involved I start second guessing myself.
Did you load the axle splines as under load that`ll change the pattern too , I used to set Ford carriers and Most CR - Pin on cars at 1/8 at lower Crown index the pattern would sink to center on the fat side hold the axle so the spiders turn , The paint showed center to 3/4 high on the crown ya 000.7 to 000.11 ,, But I`d smoke the Pinion shaft to set the Crush sleeve before doing the pattern .But if it`s a daisy tractor it should do fine careful if ever do a pull contest .
You really couldn't get more professional at restoring old tractors that Squatch253.
In every possible way he explains what, why and how he's getting X231 back to parade duty running.
I've said it before and I'll say it again.
He could easily be a top notch mechanical arts vocational school instructor if he chose to be one.
Any subscriber who drops his channel because of this series is loosing out on one of the most fascinating ones on TH-cam.
Their lose, our gain.
Moline are high quality tractors !!
Glad you got it dialed in. My "trans guy" always has set up my 9" and Dana 60's for me. Luckily his son is taking over the shop. After 40 years,he's getting ready to retire. Getting hard to hang on to the really old school shops even here in Detroit.Thanks for posting.
@@squatch253 Roger that!
Great video. Thanks for the clear explanation on your thought process behind the contact pattern on the worn gear set. I've only built one differential (Ford 9") and it was interesting to watch.
In my opinion this is the fun part ,as long as the parts are clean and new brgs. A little time consuming but its just figuring it out. Thanks for sharing this with us!
You are making GREAT progress bud, and this is all good news. With how detailed this restoration is getting... I have a feeling we might make it to a part "100"! :-D
@@squatch253 Slowly but surely, it will come together. Reassembly is the quick part! Can't wait to see a finished product!
Great video as always very interesting thanks
You hinted at it in the video, but I was always taught to load the gears slightly when checking the contact pattern. As you said, things are different under tension.
I found over the years to check backlash in a couple of places as I have found some small crown wheel run out. Probably not as important on used gears. Im enjoying your videos, thanks.
Nice to see your attention to detail!
I actually had to think the first time you said about kind of mesh you wished to achieve. It was mesh(singular,you),not messes(plural,me) that I had to think about. I remember a guy I worked with doing blue on a 70s Corvette. If that Vette is still around,it ain't with the diff he was so proud to show me. Getting a decent working contact pattern with used gears is not always easy. You said about 4 hours. I am not at all surprised.
Truck brakes ,air conditioning and GM front ends I was good at. Differentials I was content to leave to others. Did that when I had to. Does not mean I was good at it.
I wouldnt be able to sleep at night,thinking about putting that together and making it work!! Let the gray hairs grow!! LOL!
@@squatch253 This what I like,The REAL thing not a fake set-up show!! Thanks!
@@squatch253 Two of my favorite TH-cam channels are guys working on wooden boats. They post one ~30-minute video every two weeks, and it's maddening, but they are also each working on one very linear project. I think/hope most of your followers have a sense of how sporadic the progress on some of your projects has to be at times. I imagine the issue of finding parts throws wrenches into the spokes of the repair processes pretty frequently. But your channel is more like watching a soap opera, where there are different story lines running concurrently. At first I just wanted to see 5J1113 videos (it had a great start to the story arc, when you weren't sure you could even get it out from behind the house), but I've really come to appreciate X231 and what I call the Frankenpillar, and the fork holder color matched to the 8M (wish you'd showed the welding...would have been interesting), and you turning your truck into a Christmas tree (I kid, I kid...good work on the lights!), and the tractor shows (I didn't know such things existed). Bottom line: Your videos are consistently interesting, and I think it's better to have more, shorter videos than fewer, longer ones. No need for you to stress over them. Just my .02, and probably not worth even that, especially when adjusted for inflation.
very great work !! love it to see !!
🎄🎄🎄🎄🎄🎄🎄🎄🎄🎄🎄🎄🎄🎄
One more hurdle conquered.
This is, I know, a critical set up. I'm sure glad that these 'old' gears are going to be good for this transmission.
This one was really interesting to watch in progress.
Good stuff!
@@squatch253 Yes but you see I have two things going here,..faith in you being able to 'overcome the obstacle' ,...and hindsight! ( I'm smiling here!)
I cracked a smile so you don't have to. I may have even laughed, but that raises the question. Does a lone engineer in his office make a sound when he laughs?
Hi, Great vid thanks. I have shimmed between Crown Wheel and its carrier sometimes to improve meshing.
👍
I feel like the gear mesh pattern is an ideal place to start? Over time and with some real load that will push that gear together better? I know this takes a lot of patience I rebuilt a rear end on a truck out in the field. Not easy.
4 helpings of #X231 in less than two weeks... Left me with a smile on my face once again. Keep up the great work and content.
@@squatch253 Really appreciate the effort that I know must be involved in doing the restoration and documenting the process on TH-cam at the same time.
Nice work. Yeah, with worn gearsets you have to make compromises... moreso when you can't just order up a new R&P. Have never set up a tractor but a lot of car and truck axles and it looks mostly the same. IMO your decision making was spot-on!
Very nice and professional, great detail explanations
As I watched you put this together, I was thinking I would just cut some .005 thou shims from some SS shim stock and try that. But not everyone works in a laser shop. Nice job fabricating your own
You gave me a chuckle when you ended your last video. For any one who has done this before you would’ve had their undivided attention.
I had the same experience on a Willys CJ5 after replacing the bearings on both axles. After replacing all of the shims in the original positions the front axles ring pattern was riding towards the heel, but still wide on the pitch line. Then when I moved the pinion in and ring away I would get a sharp pattern on the pitch line. I deduced that the pinion was always riding more towards the heel and when I tried to move towards the toe it went into an area that was outside of the original wear area.
I must admit it was very frustrating. The 1960 Motor Manual that I was using told you how to shim a new ring and pinion, but not a worn set.
At least I was able to work on mine on a bench.
Great job on your cleaning job, those castings look like new
That's why I like the Ford 9 inch third member ring and pinion setup and others like it. Pretty easy to dial in. I have watched mechanics at the dealership I worked at and they don't stick a dial indicator on the differential to check backlash or check pinion depth or preload. I guess they just know...or do they. I guess I would rather know.
I can see this step to take a lot of time to do. You almost smiled...
Excellent, very methodical. I know, with my previous comment, .............
Glad to see the old gals guts coming together.
Awesome attention to the differential. This was a really good video and will definitely help in the future. #Antiqueforddearbornfarmer
There is only one way to do gear contact, and that is exactly as how you have done, trial and error, over and over, to get the very best possible contact you can. Amateurs and hackers stop early and say "close enough"., and then wonder why the gear train is noisy and didn't last. With the pattern you achieved , I wouldn't be afraid to hook on to a set of three bottoms and head across virgin ground. Well done!
Not time to start shining teeth pal and if everything was new it'd work a lot different. When stuff has a lot of hours on it we just have to do the best we can. Snow is still hanging here even thought it's been in the 40's but there's rain on the way.
So stay warm, keep on plugging and Hi 2 Pop!
That book could be very useful to anyone doing this model you should do a video when your all done of each page so people can pause and read the info
Nice work, differential setup is time consuming and frustrating to say the least. Not shown here, all the head scratching, seemingly endless attempts at combinations that don't work, only to end up scratching your head when you end up basically where you started. Nice work!
Really enjoy the fact that you concentrate your videos to the meat of the topic and not the laborious stuff. Your Video editing skills are great
Another amazing video with wonderful results. Bull gears next?
Great video, very informative.
Super interesting video as ever, keep them coming! Out of interest do you do all your own sand blasting, couldn’t help but notice the tank in the background. If so what size blaster tank do you recommend along with compressor size? Thanks.
Will you ever get back to M M prototype.
If X231 ever has to work again, the torque will pull the ring and pinion together, plenty good for a parade tractor. Good notes save a lot of repeated steps.
Go ahead and smile, you’ve earned it!
Could you shim between the pinion and barring to move the contact closer to center ?
Wow, patience and perseverance made the day again. Maybe a small smile and a success drink are allowed. Great job!!
Hell that's the way to do it all the best to you and X231 ITS GONA BE LIKE NEW
Another fine mesh you've gotten yourself into. :)
I’m wondering why they didn’t have provisions for pinion depth shims... this would allow you to tailor the pinion depth better (instead of using the case gaskets). I also agree with you about the contact pattern, I think that when loaded, it will fall into place. I was taught to check contact pattern by loading the ring and pinion while rotating it. I understand vehicles are different than tractors, and I can see it would be a little difficult to load the gear set inside the case. My comments are just observations, and not meant in any way to say your doing it wrong. As I don’t rebuild tractors and am just a lowly mechanic. -Jason
Yes it’s going together!! You have a good poker face lol
The phrase "better than new" keeps coming to mind - top craftsman rated video!
Yeah, better conserve those smiles...wouldn't want to run out, just in case you find yourself holding a puppy.
P.S. Can your camera shoot time lapse (e.g., one frame every 10 seconds), or can your video editing software compress time? It might be kind of interesting to see 4.5 hours of you adding and subtracting and moving spacers between sides if it were compressed into, say, 15 to 30 seconds. Just a thought.
@@squatch253 I actually think you chase your tail all the damn time!!! Your videos are sometimes like the earlier Batman movies, where one moment you see Batman way off in the distance and then *PRESTO* he's hanging upside down right behind the bad guy and you're, like, "What the wha....?" A soundtrack over the sped up parts wouldn't be a bad thing, though I'll probably let you know if I think your taste in music sucks. (jk...gopher it!)
Heck of away to enjoy my breakfast this morning!!!
It’s great to see a tech who knows how to set up a hypoid gear set. It’s a dying art.
glad it worked out for you
the gears would wear into each other would they. thanks for the video
Always feels good to have a win like that!
Congrats!! That was a ton of work. Glad it worked.
Excellent contact pattern on such a well worn gearset.
thank you for your hard work
Great work sir keep on going will see a tractor soon and thank you for your time
Mountain Dew time!
Well I learnt some things. Great result.
Tedious as hell, but worth it in the end. Nice job.....
Good video
Nice job, I like the way you work Sir.
good on you, proud off ya...
Keep it up exciting build !
Great work!!!! Just wondering what u do for a living?
Squatch253 poor guy all those hours spent trying to save the 6.0,6.4,
Awesome job!!
Another step closer to running good job and thanks for sharing
Robert Inscoe ñn
So / Your sayin its no good for 2500 hp tractor pulling LOL
Like I say the lord hates a cowered
first
Nice job sqautch253!