@@tods_workshop Can you mount the GoPro on the tail section.? That would increase the chances of survival, or possibly use a parachute of some kind to at least get half of the footage of the flight and save the GoPro.! Where there is a will...
hi tod. you know how you hook the dart to the sling on your trebuchet , i think the war darts you showed last vid are suposed to be hooked on the barb of the dart just like you did here. could you try that in a video next? if you try it i suggest wipping the dart head on with some glue and thread. the diagram of the dart throwing stick and string is depicting that i think. try it out. also if you throw the war darts the way you were doing last vid you should wrap the string around the dart twice or thrice. this will impart spin on the dart giving it stability in flight ending your tumbling problems. i have been throwing spears and darts like this for years and works well or very well. hope this helps you miss your chickens :) i love your channel and fine work tod. three thumbs up!
What I love about this channel is the quality of commentary like this - thank you. What really annoys me though is the very obvious parallel and that I didn't see this - again thank you. Absolutely it may work, so lets find out shall we?
Can't decide wether I want it to break or not. On the one hand its just a beatiful machine and a lot of work was put into it obviously. But then again, if it does break I have the sneaking suspicion that you'd go even bigger on the next one and thats always a good thing.
That "every-time I messed around with the trajectory I made it worse" really hits close to home - when you try to improve things and they just deteriorate, so familiar...
We've still got to consider the fact that trebuchet were considerable feats of engineering back in the days, and considerable engineering feats require precision, but most importantly, experience. They failed more times than you even tried, so it's only natural missteps happen, even if we got the tools to improve much much faster!
It's quite humbling to realize that the siege engines of history were made by the biggest nerds of their day, whose feats are difficult to replicate even with modern information.
@@r3dp9 one thing to remember though, this machine was built by engineers in their spare time. Neither Tod nor and of the other crew are professional trebuchet makers, its all about calculations and trial and error, and he only has one trebuchet. In medieval times though, the trebuchet-maker had one job - making trebs. He will have started learning how to make them from the age of seven or so, and will have been making trebs until the day he died. His father would have been a trebuchet maker all his life. His grandfather would have been a trebuchet maker all his life. His entire family would have existed purely for the purpose of one thing - making trebuchets. They all knew that if just one of their trebuchets failed in a battle, it would not be 'TH-cam Gold', it would have been a one way trip to the gallows.
@@Debbiebabe69 So there would have to be a constant demand on trebuchets for entire generations or the family would starve to death? That is unlikely, because the "trebuchet maker" could not choose his customers, he would make siege engines exclusively for his lord. I don't think, that such trebuchet dynasties existed. It was a team effort. Medieval lords employed "thinkers", who where mathematicians, engineers, astronomers (or astrologers), architects and sometimes also artists. Those kept their knowledge secret, teaching mostly single students as their successor. If siege engines were needed, it was their responsibility, to come up with plans (from their own mind or from the knowledge of their former master). There were other people, who produced the parts and even other people, who assembled and operated those machines on the battle field.
@@tods_workshop Mariano wrote his work, totally unaware that in the future, more people than he ever met in his LIFE, would be interested, and studying the meanings in full colour, fidelity sound, and instant communication, across the worlds globe. He would be STAGGERED.
When you added the cage to the dart it moved the center of mass forward. You need the dart to be longer or the fins to be larger to compensate. Or start from scratch with all that in mind :P You can prototype this - very loosely - with a scale model. Make a small analogue with the proportions you are testing, tape pennies to it or something till the COM is in the right place. Then tie a string to the COM and spin it around your head and see how much it tumbles. This will let you know if you're in the right ballpark. Or you could, you know, do a lot of math. :P
There's also an issue with aerodynamics here. A front basket and cup system works well as a sacrifice, but it probably creates some significantly strange points where air is going to divert through and alter the trajectory. It wouldn't be historical in the slightest, but a thin plastic sheet/dome across the top might help alleviate some of the issues.
Here's an idea: Try a variety of "cluster munitions" ^^ I don't know how many plumbatae you have lying around, but I do wonder how many you could through from a trebuchet and how much they would disperse
The treb we used in Caerphilly castle in the early 90ies shot concrete gate post tops that had a hole throu the middle . someone had the great idea of putting string on a cork so when they landed in the moat we could retrieve them .never did get them out so future divers might wonder who put the pile of concrete balls in the same place!
Matt Easton did a sword review that included footage of a "test until destruction". If this series turns out to be be something similar, that would really fantastic! As always, great video!
I usually find the fails more fascinating than the successes. This is no different. I am no longer under the illusion that siege weapons are 'primitive'. Primitive in material, perhaps, but not in engineering or application.
Hell yeah! Don't give up! This is by far the most interesting piece of military history that we don't know enough on. Beautiful engineering. I can't wait to keep learning
As well as the angle, you want to release when the sling is in line with the arm. No idea how that can be tuned without messing up the angle at the same time. Projectile mass, counterweight mass, sling length and release pin seem like the 4 variables you can control to help with that.
Absolutely love this Tod, great stuff. I thought that the shot you did sideways on showed more like a 55 degree launch angle. Without seeing more footage from the first shots that it's hard to tell the original release angle, but I'm sure your adjustments increased the angle.
Really enjoy how you try something, change something, try again, change it say the hell with it and put it all back to square one. BUT that is how you figure out how to make things better. I really hope you get the GoPro dart working as that would be epic film footage.
It is impossible not to love your heroic curiosity and effort to investigate. In the 19th century most inventions and scientific discoveries resulted from such efforts. Today you reveal realities hidden behind assumptions of institutional academia. And with such humility and good humour. Truly inspirational. ( Also, as a son of a blacksmith, I have to say the quality of workmanship on Tod cutler knives & etc. Is outstanding.)
I remember NOVA or some other PBS science/history show did some experiments with trebuchet's back in the early 00s. They had found that putting wheels on the trebuchet let it rock back and forth and dissipate the energy instead of the frame shaking itself apart. If I remember correctly, they did the experiment because of a manuscript illustration with wheels, and a historian involved thought that must have been an embellishment because they wouldn't cart trebuchets around between sieges, they'd build them on-site.
Yep, can’t remember the show but I’ve definitely seen something along those lines. It seemed a bit counter intuitive but having wheels on an un-anchored base did make a substantial difference to the performance and longevity of the trebuchet.
@@Oldtanktapper In modern artillery there often is a system for the barrel and breach to move back under spring pressure, not just to work the reloading system but also to dampen the recoil and stop the gun from chewing itself up.
They also help with the efficiency of the throw. With wheels the counter weight drops closer to vertical instead of in an arc, which transfers more energy to the throwing arm. You should check out some of the more modern trebuchet designs that are optimized for efficiency. There are some really weird designs like floating axles that allow the counter weight to drop absolutely straight down.
I´ve also seen it! I think you mean this one: th-cam.com/video/QVO8VznqMeQ/w-d-xo.html Its amazing to see, the trebuchet is huge and they built a wall section just to shoot at it! Would love Todds thoughts on this, especially about the wheels.
Wondering if you could throw something that will take a high refresh GPS sample to a data logger, that would let you try different settings and have the data points in 3d for height, angle (potentially an accelerometer etc as well would be interesting). Make a nice Google earth fly through as well
This was really interesting, thank you very much 👍 I'm looking forward to more videos with this amazing piece of engineering. I hope you and everyone here have a great weekend Cheers from Denmark
Honestly , any kind of beer would do right now for me. I work as a butcher in a supermarket here and I've had a lot of coleagues down with Covid already in 2022. This is my first weekend off this year... I just want to sleep, after a beer or two that is 😆
I love that you explain everything, I wish the mainstream TV (now youtube I guess? Or Magellan TV?) shows went into the mechanics like you do instead of the drama factor
Oh yes indeed, twice under the remnant walls at Berwick upon Tweed quite a few years ago as part of the displays associated with the anniversary of the Battle of Halidon Hill. It had been designed by the local museum curator and built in a local school. Let’s be charitable and describe it as slightly under specified and designed by eye rather than calculation. To be fair it did work fine a few times, (if somewhat prone to the shakes on release with the energy going into the machine rather than the release). The projectiles were overripe musk melons which would still have caused a lot of damage if we had not scattered very quickly and being splatted with rotting melon flesh was no fun at all. I learned a lot about safety radii, public protection and my agility that day…..
If the GoPro is too close to the front of the dart, it's getting nailed into the loam. Is there a way it could be rear mounted in such a way that the dart remains stable, and there's some method of decelerating the dart on impact?
If the trebuchet survives the modifications, might l suggest a fluro paint job on the projectiles. That will make them stand out more on the wide angle shoots. I'm enjoying these experiments with the trebuchet a lot.
My understanding is you want your bullet loosing at something like 35° above horizontal. I tried building a whipper at one point, and it's surprisingly difficult to nail down a precise tuning
Hey bud love the videos! Friendly feedback you mention a pin and adjusting it to change the angle of release. While I think I can assume what you meant I have zero idea what you actually meant. I’m not that smart but if I’m wondering figure others might be as well. Ty for showing me your adventure regardless!
get you want distance, but what is the best angle of attack, so like which is best vs a castle wall, or vs advancing troops, surely low and hard is better
One thing that's fascinating about these videos, especially when things don't work like they were supposed to, is that it's in a very real sense recreating history before our eyes. The engineers designing and testing ye olde trebuchets would have faced many of the same challenges you do, or at the very least tuning each individual trebuchet for the task at hand. So not only do we get an insight into how a working trebuchet looks and sounds like, but we get an insight into the design process and what the challenges are. :) Also, i love the attitude of "Trebuchet survived, projectile was rubbish - back to the drawing board." :)
Good afternoon from Arizona. Love the videos. Do you have plans for the trebuchet that you can share the file for? I want to build a scaled down version about 4ft Tall for a project with my kids. Thank you.
Talk to Mr. Brandt. Set the rig on top of a single layer of rollers-cribbing, probably 10-foot segments of scrap telephone poles - you want the trebuchet base to roll smoothly forward and then back on the rollers. That should reduce your torquing problem and limit the strain.
One giant dart is nice, but can you fire multiple plumbata? Many put a bar with several hooks on the arm to have the bits seperat so they don't mess with one another
And I must comment on Tod's wardrobe, very Renaissance and surprisingly up to high fashion standards. Simultaneous sigh of a genius and, maybe, a polite unspoken request for patronage. I like and respect, as many other positive character traits. We all can learn something here. Plus, he has a destructive device to experiment with.
My hoodies that seem to get so much interest are a result of artificial fibres around lots of grinders and changing them just makes for more new holes faster
I wonder if the texture on a stone ball would grip the pouch enough to give it some back spin, if it does would it be enough to make a difference to the range? I suppose it could be tested by coating a bowling ball in textured paint like the chip stuff on ceilings or the rough stuff on pick up beds?
You might get more range, but I'd expect your impact energy be decreased slightly due to lowered velocity upon impact. It would also affect the angle of impact. You could also dimple it like a golf ball, or add some pitch to make it more sticky, to maybe get some extra backspin.
Probably wouldn't have much impact. Air-resistance, spin, the magnus effect, and all that scale with the surface area of the projectile (radius^2) and speed. Gravity and inertia depends on mass (density * radius^3). So for a small, not very dense, fast projectile like a golf, spin and air resistance are quite important relative to the other physical effects. For a large, dense, relatively slow projectile like a bowling ball out of a trebuchet, they would be rather negligible.
I'm quite into slinging and catapults and can get a noticeable curve on stones at range but it's far more noticeable with a longer pouch and granite or something else with a rough surface, even as perfectly round as a stone gets, however the velocity (and spin) on a long sling from someone practiced at it is probably more than the trebuchet, it may be worth consideration, I'm very much on the fence on the outcome, btw I'm not talking about intentionally rough shot but just the natural texture of carved or chiselled stone, edited to say about the catapult part, that's irrelevant lol
Honestly, slinging stuff is cool; but the real interest for me is seeing a craftsman tweaking and refining his tools. Lovely little video and rather interesting too!
I wonder if there's a way to reduce counterweight torsion, like if the axle connecting the counterweight to the throwing arm is longer but still passes comfortably between the upright legs.
Can you adjust the sling length until you find the best results, then adjust the pin separately until the best results or will those differences affect each other, so that if you change one you would have to change the other to maximum results?
You could, but they are interrelated. I have a suspicion that actually the difference in distance between a 40, 45 or 50 degree loose would be pretty minimal, so I think I have been getting a bit concerned with exactly what angle, and should be more concerned with making the thing last
@@tods_workshop One more thing to consider is wind - I've read that it's better to use a slightly lower trajectory for a headwind or crosswind, as the longer the projectile is in the air, the more time the wind has to affect distance and aim (and in a crosswind, preserving your aim means throwing into the wind a bit to compensate, so it can be considered as similar to a headwind in terms of distance.) Also, as wind resistance slows the projectile's forward speed more the longer it's in the air, the optimum should always be just a little lower than 45 degrees in calm weather, but never higher unless you have a strong tailwind (or unless you're trying to e.g. drop your shot just over a curtain wall, at which point you need more verticality close to the impact point - but that's a separate question.) :-)
Wow that was a lot of shaking. I sure hope that when it explodes under it's own power, no one gets hurt. Maybe start triggering it from a little bit further away?
I wonder if a cage/mount bolted to the dart mid-shaft would work? It'd have to be pretty streamlined to survive a drag through the sling/trough though (and beefy too if it were to survive a snag). Hmm. Also, how much trouble would it be to remount the trebuchet on a platform to allow for a longer arm? I'm thinking specifically of using those massive (1.5 - 3 m) concrete road barriers (not the thin ones but the rectangular blocks), the can come with interlocking ends but they may be very pricey, I've no idea. Maybe a trench would work too the same effect (though it looks like water would collect pretty fast in that location)? Come to think of it, a plank and post earth berm/trench might be just as good, graded for drainage of course. It would even keep the "medieval" feel for camera crews.
i could be wrong but i think historic ones were some times on wheels to move them yes but also to take out some of the shock when used worth looking .into good video
Really shows why having the best engineer, a king could get, commanding and inspecting everything in relation to you war machines, would have been necessary on you war campaigns. Building a successful trebuchet, would not be something you just slap together.
Perhaps you could collaborate with Steve Mould? A switch and strobe on the arm and a pressure switch on the sling would be trackable on the screen and give precise angular measurements.
just to wonder. could it relate to frequencies, so that little changes doesnt actually hit the spot enough to do a better throw. anyway, im so hyped for all that ur gonna do with it!
Hi Tod, as regards release angles, could you put a sheet of cardboard (perhaps disk shaped) on one of the uprights, then have a magic marker at right angles to the arm, held onto the arm with a "holder" as the arm rotates, it traces a circle on the cardboard, now, have it set up with a very light line (fishing line ?) from the magic marker to the part of the sling that slides off the hook.....that way, when the sling releases, no more line on the cardboard....should then be simple to see where the release occures.... of course, with all your experience with cross bow triggers etc, my guess is you will come up with a better way to "disengage" the magic marker........
G'day Tod, Loving the trebuchet series. I see in the main arm of the trebuchet there are three other holes for the basket to connect to. Have you experimented with those, or would they just worsen the performance?
I wondered how poorly it would fly with that heavy, blunt baffle you added. Maybe a pexiglass cone? not sure if that would survive the impact either though
You probably need some sort of mechanism to smooth the deceleration of the go-pro when it hits the ground. Shocks, springs, etc. Another option that may help would be to have some sort of sacrificial part connecting the go-pro enclosure to the shaft or rest of the head. It would be much easier for it to survive if it weren’t for the entire mass of the dart shaft trying to shove its way through where the go-pro is. One option would be for the shaft to be attached to the head at a slanted section joined by a sacrificial part: the force of impact breaks the connection, and the shaft slides off the angled surface and hits beside the head and gopro. The other, probably more complicated option would be to have the go-pro ejected from the head and be deflected to the side to ideally roll laterally away from the point of impact. I’ll throw together some (bad) drawings. The second idea might work decently well the more I think about it, while being more easily reusable… and I also don’t have much knowledge on techniques using sacrificial parts.
Hi Scott, You are right about deceleration and if this were onto concrete I would agree, but damp soil will allow for an acceptable deceleration, but I think I will move toward a more disposable camera for this.
Tuning these can be frustrating. Modify hook, sling, or sling rope length separately as each affects throw distance in odd ways. Weight thrown and counterweight changes will affect everything else. Lashed up some for Scouts. Threw pumpkins, weighted exercise ball, and buckets of walnuts. Never had a failure myself but have witnessed a few. Scary.
I think we're all half pleased that Tod learned from his camera killing days - and half sad that he didn't further his world record attempt for destroying them! ;-)
You and GoPro seem to have a love-hate relationship. Brilliant content as always.
Thanks and to be fair I love them, they hate me.
@@tods_workshop If Graham treated you the way you treat it/him/them, you'd hate it/him/them too...
@@tods_workshop I'm sure the company LOVES you, Todd! Certainly the shareholders do..
@@tods_workshop you need to get them to sponsor you :P
@@tods_workshop exactly... Hence... Love/hate relationship.. lol
Those wide angle shots are amazing, I can’t believe how well the first dart worked, well done sir.
Thanks and I was pleased but the second was a disaster - I will nail it eventually
@@tods_workshop more tail weight possibly... Or different release finger angle
@@tods_workshop Can you mount the GoPro on the tail section.? That would increase the chances of survival, or possibly use a parachute of some kind to at least get half of the footage of the flight and save the GoPro.! Where there is a will...
Titanium!
hi tod.
you know how you hook the dart to the sling on your trebuchet , i think the war darts you showed last vid are suposed to be hooked on the barb of the dart just like you did here. could you try that in a video next? if you try it i suggest wipping the dart head on with some glue and thread. the diagram of the dart throwing stick and string is depicting that i think. try it out. also if you throw the war darts the way you were doing last vid you should wrap the string around the dart twice or thrice. this will impart spin on the dart giving it stability in flight ending your tumbling problems. i have been throwing spears and darts like this for years and works well or very well. hope this helps you miss your chickens :)
i love your channel and fine work tod. three thumbs up!
What I love about this channel is the quality of commentary like this - thank you. What really annoys me though is the very obvious parallel and that I didn't see this - again thank you. Absolutely it may work, so lets find out shall we?
'Come to bed, darling.'
'Later, I've got to calibrate my trebuchet...'
Can't decide wether I want it to break or not. On the one hand its just a beatiful machine and a lot of work was put into it obviously. But then again, if it does break I have the sneaking suspicion that you'd go even bigger on the next one and thats always a good thing.
Plus, how often in your life do you think you'll get a chance to see an actual trebuchet tear itself apart?
Look up colin furzes trebuchet series if you want to see a massive one self destruct.
That "every-time I messed around with the trajectory I made it worse" really hits close to home - when you try to improve things and they just deteriorate, so familiar...
We've still got to consider the fact that trebuchet were considerable feats of engineering back in the days, and considerable engineering feats require precision, but most importantly, experience. They failed more times than you even tried, so it's only natural missteps happen, even if we got the tools to improve much much faster!
It's quite humbling to realize that the siege engines of history were made by the biggest nerds of their day, whose feats are difficult to replicate even with modern information.
Also centuries before the basic laws of motion we now learn in 9th grade, so was a loooot of trial and error
@@r3dp9 one thing to remember though, this machine was built by engineers in their spare time. Neither Tod nor and of the other crew are professional trebuchet makers, its all about calculations and trial and error, and he only has one trebuchet.
In medieval times though, the trebuchet-maker had one job - making trebs. He will have started learning how to make them from the age of seven or so, and will have been making trebs until the day he died. His father would have been a trebuchet maker all his life. His grandfather would have been a trebuchet maker all his life. His entire family would have existed purely for the purpose of one thing - making trebuchets. They all knew that if just one of their trebuchets failed in a battle, it would not be 'TH-cam Gold', it would have been a one way trip to the gallows.
@@MollymaukT Do people not just inherently understand the laws of motion though?
@@Debbiebabe69 So there would have to be a constant demand on trebuchets for entire generations or the family would starve to death? That is unlikely, because the "trebuchet maker" could not choose his customers, he would make siege engines exclusively for his lord. I don't think, that such trebuchet dynasties existed.
It was a team effort. Medieval lords employed "thinkers", who where mathematicians, engineers, astronomers (or astrologers), architects and sometimes also artists. Those kept their knowledge secret, teaching mostly single students as their successor. If siege engines were needed, it was their responsibility, to come up with plans (from their own mind or from the knowledge of their former master). There were other people, who produced the parts and even other people, who assembled and operated those machines on the battle field.
What an epic series Todd. The energy of the trebuchet is awesome. Almost on par with your own energy when ‘loose’ the projectile.
Thanks and here is your very own customised one to cherish LOOOOOOOOOSE!
I am in no hurry for the trebuchet series to be over. I can't wait to see how this whole thing evolves over time.
I'd never heard of trebuchet darts before, really interesting
Another snippet from Mariano Taccola
@@tods_workshop How about flaming arrows from a trebuchet? :D
@@romaliop Don't make me link the Lindybeige flaming arrow vid.
@@tods_workshop Mariano wrote his work, totally unaware that in the future, more people than he ever met in his LIFE, would be interested, and studying the meanings in full colour, fidelity sound, and instant communication, across the worlds globe.
He would be STAGGERED.
When you added the cage to the dart it moved the center of mass forward. You need the dart to be longer or the fins to be larger to compensate. Or start from scratch with all that in mind :P
You can prototype this - very loosely - with a scale model. Make a small analogue with the proportions you are testing, tape pennies to it or something till the COM is in the right place. Then tie a string to the COM and spin it around your head and see how much it tumbles. This will let you know if you're in the right ballpark.
Or you could, you know, do a lot of math. :P
There's also an issue with aerodynamics here. A front basket and cup system works well as a sacrifice, but it probably creates some significantly strange points where air is going to divert through and alter the trajectory. It wouldn't be historical in the slightest, but a thin plastic sheet/dome across the top might help alleviate some of the issues.
Did I just spot a Kerbal Space Program player here :D?
in any case great work, that everyone may enjoy that machine as long as possible!
Here's an idea: Try a variety of "cluster munitions" ^^ I don't know how many plumbatae you have lying around, but I do wonder how many you could through from a trebuchet and how much they would disperse
You just hate GoPros, don't you?
@@mnk9073 Sometimes when you fail to hit the target, you have to realise that quantity has a quality all of it's own ;)
Morning Todd, glad to see you doing the dirty work. Stay safe
The treb we used in Caerphilly castle in the early 90ies shot concrete gate post tops that had a hole throu the middle . someone had the great idea of putting string on a cork so when they landed in the moat we could retrieve them .never did get them out so future divers might wonder who put the pile of concrete balls in the same place!
That sort of thing is always a bit tiresome. You do everything you can to solve the problem, but nobody ever gets round to the last 1%
Matt Easton did a sword review that included footage of a "test until destruction". If this series turns out to be be something similar, that would really fantastic!
As always, great video!
I usually find the fails more fascinating than the successes. This is no different. I am no longer under the illusion that siege weapons are 'primitive'. Primitive in material, perhaps, but not in engineering or application.
I suspect a 'master' was amazing. Look up 'a master gunners handbook' for the depth of knowledge these guys had.
Hell yeah! Don't give up! This is by far the most interesting piece of military history that we don't know enough on. Beautiful engineering. I can't wait to keep learning
It is the gift that keeps on giving, I just hope it survives long enough to get some real information out of
You turned the trebuchet into a giant whip bow. Very nice!
Love the trebuchet videos man! Thanks for making them and keeping us along for the journey
I love your work ... that wonderful hinterland between madness and genius. I salute you, SIr!
Amazing how far we've progressed over the years,very clever this though back in the day.i love you videos my friend
I love this channel.
You and horsie knight guy are so super chill to watch.
As well as the angle, you want to release when the sling is in line with the arm. No idea how that can be tuned without messing up the angle at the same time. Projectile mass, counterweight mass, sling length and release pin seem like the 4 variables you can control to help with that.
There are just so many things to adjust I suspect you have to end up with "good enough"
Absolutely love this Tod, great stuff. I thought that the shot you did sideways on showed more like a 55 degree launch angle. Without seeing more footage from the first shots that it's hard to tell the original release angle, but I'm sure your adjustments increased the angle.
Quite possibly, but it is all old hat now that I have to lengthen the arm
@@tods_workshop Please make a video of the process of making the brace for the extension. It would be a treat to see how you plan and execute it.
I’d love to see this series continue for quite some time, especially trying to hit a specific target should be interesting. Nice film, Tod!
It's been said before by many folk, and will be said again. But..... I bloody love this channel!
Im so excited every time i watch any video in this Todd's catapult series. TY very much 😮😍
Really enjoy how you try something, change something, try again, change it say the hell with it and put it all back to square one. BUT that is how you figure out how to make things better. I really hope you get the GoPro dart working as that would be epic film footage.
Finally! A step by step tutorial on how to tune my Trebuchet!
It is impossible not to love your heroic curiosity and effort to investigate. In the 19th century most inventions and scientific discoveries resulted from such efforts. Today you reveal realities hidden behind assumptions of institutional academia. And with such humility and good humour. Truly inspirational. ( Also, as a son of a blacksmith, I have to say the quality of workmanship on Tod cutler knives & etc. Is outstanding.)
Thanks - that is very kind and appreciated and I am just so privileged to be able to take the time to investigate and mess about with this stuff
I remember NOVA or some other PBS science/history show did some experiments with trebuchet's back in the early 00s. They had found that putting wheels on the trebuchet let it rock back and forth and dissipate the energy instead of the frame shaking itself apart. If I remember correctly, they did the experiment because of a manuscript illustration with wheels, and a historian involved thought that must have been an embellishment because they wouldn't cart trebuchets around between sieges, they'd build them on-site.
Yep, can’t remember the show but I’ve definitely seen something along those lines. It seemed a bit counter intuitive but having wheels on an un-anchored base did make a substantial difference to the performance and longevity of the trebuchet.
@@Oldtanktapper In modern artillery there often is a system for the barrel and breach to move back under spring pressure, not just to work the reloading system but also to dampen the recoil and stop the gun from chewing itself up.
They also help with the efficiency of the throw. With wheels the counter weight drops closer to vertical instead of in an arc, which transfers more energy to the throwing arm.
You should check out some of the more modern trebuchet designs that are optimized for efficiency. There are some really weird designs like floating axles that allow the counter weight to drop absolutely straight down.
I´ve also seen it! I think you mean this one: th-cam.com/video/QVO8VznqMeQ/w-d-xo.html
Its amazing to see, the trebuchet is huge and they built a wall section just to shoot at it!
Would love Todds thoughts on this, especially about the wheels.
@@KanaiIle Yes, that's it! I forgot Stacy Keach was the narrator.
Wondering if you could throw something that will take a high refresh GPS sample to a data logger, that would let you try different settings and have the data points in 3d for height, angle (potentially an accelerometer etc as well would be interesting).
Make a nice Google earth fly through as well
Very nice to be able to follow this project through ups and downs. Looking forward to seeing the next step!
This was really interesting, thank you very much 👍
I'm looking forward to more videos with this amazing piece of engineering.
I hope you and everyone here have a great weekend
Cheers from Denmark
Thanks and have a great weekend in Denmark too! I am off to the pub shortly for some of that legendary warm English beer.
Honestly , any kind of beer would do right now for me. I work as a butcher in a supermarket here and I've had a lot of coleagues down with Covid already in 2022. This is my first weekend off this year... I just want to sleep, after a beer or two that is 😆
Man I love this series! Keep up the awesome work!
Cheers!
You could use one of your patented firebombs to fine tune the release angle. The smoke trail it leaves behind should show the angle of the projectile.
I love that you explain everything, I wish the mainstream TV (now youtube I guess? Or Magellan TV?) shows went into the mechanics like you do instead of the drama factor
When doing experiments, there are no failures, only results.
Tod and Throwing Darts, name a more iconic duo.
Loving seeing these series of videos! Cool to see how it’s coming along
Few people in modern times will ever experience that moment of cold terror when they realize the trebuchet has launched the projectile straight up.
run.
3 times so far....And that is why you never stand behind them
Oh yes indeed, twice under the remnant walls at Berwick upon Tweed quite a few years ago as part of the displays associated with the anniversary of the Battle of Halidon Hill. It had been designed by the local museum curator and built in a local school. Let’s be charitable and describe it as slightly under specified and designed by eye rather than calculation. To be fair it did work fine a few times, (if somewhat prone to the shakes on release with the energy going into the machine rather than the release). The projectiles were overripe musk melons which would still have caused a lot of damage if we had not scattered very quickly and being splatted with rotting melon flesh was no fun at all. I learned a lot about safety radii, public protection and my agility that day…..
"Absolute Rubbish" 🤣🤣🤣🤣
I love this channel! Keep up the great work Tod!
Mr Tod Cutler,
When the machines arise and revolt agaist their human masters,
(as is inevitable)
The gopros are coming for YOU!
Love your work.
Love seeing things not work easily - makes me feel so much better about my projects
If the GoPro is too close to the front of the dart, it's getting nailed into the loam. Is there a way it could be rear mounted in such a way that the dart remains stable, and there's some method of decelerating the dart on impact?
I could, but I want the best field of view and there is a risk with that!
If the trebuchet survives the modifications, might l suggest a fluro paint job on the projectiles. That will make them stand out more on the wide angle shoots. I'm enjoying these experiments with the trebuchet a lot.
Excellent video!!! Keep up the fantastic work!!!
@Todd maybe just try some drag-streamers attached to the back end of the dart?
I have wondered the same - would look cool too and much lighter
"The length of the sling,
and the angle of the pin,
on the end of the arm"
This sounds like the beginning of an old, british drinking-song.. =)
My understanding is you want your bullet loosing at something like 35° above horizontal. I tried building a whipper at one point, and it's surprisingly difficult to nail down a precise tuning
Wheels probably act as a shock absorber, as well as the range being better.
Hey bud love the videos!
Friendly feedback you mention a pin and adjusting it to change the angle of release. While I think I can assume what you meant I have zero idea what you actually meant. I’m not that smart but if I’m wondering figure others might be as well.
Ty for showing me your adventure regardless!
get you want distance, but what is the best angle of attack, so like which is best vs a castle wall, or vs advancing troops, surely low and hard is better
One thing that's fascinating about these videos, especially when things don't work like they were supposed to, is that it's in a very real sense recreating history before our eyes.
The engineers designing and testing ye olde trebuchets would have faced many of the same challenges you do, or at the very least tuning each individual trebuchet for the task at hand.
So not only do we get an insight into how a working trebuchet looks and sounds like, but we get an insight into the design process and what the challenges are. :)
Also, i love the attitude of "Trebuchet survived, projectile was rubbish - back to the drawing board." :)
Thanks and glad you like it and the idea is to show the process and so hopefully I am doing that
Phew - the trebuchet survived! That's the most important thing, wouldn't want to see Tod with a broken heart!
👕"Trebuchet: for when you absolutely, positively have to destroy every castle in the kingdom"👌🏻nice one, Tod👌🏻🤣
I'm loving this series. What other whacky historic tech can we get someone to hire Tod to make so he can get all excited playing with it?
So cool that you show when things fail. Now we can all watch thing ( hopefully) improve.
Its all part of the process, but just so slow because this thing is so darn big and its just me
Good afternoon from Arizona. Love the videos. Do you have plans for the trebuchet that you can share the file for? I want to build a scaled down version about 4ft Tall for a project with my kids. Thank you.
Talk to Mr. Brandt.
Set the rig on top of a single layer of rollers-cribbing, probably 10-foot segments of scrap telephone poles - you want the trebuchet base to roll smoothly forward and then back on the rollers.
That should reduce your torquing problem and limit the strain.
One giant dart is nice, but can you fire multiple plumbata?
Many put a bar with several hooks on the arm to have the bits seperat so they don't mess with one another
It will come, but first I have to make it safe
Cool
And I must comment on Tod's wardrobe, very Renaissance and surprisingly up to high fashion standards. Simultaneous sigh of a genius and, maybe, a polite unspoken request for patronage. I like and respect, as many other positive character traits. We all can learn something here. Plus, he has a destructive device to experiment with.
My hoodies that seem to get so much interest are a result of artificial fibres around lots of grinders and changing them just makes for more new holes faster
6:12 That rabbit/ pheasant must be thinking this is an unconventional hunting method.
🤔 some drag fins on that dart perhaps?
If its shaking can you remove a little weight?
I do believe there is a point of diminishing returns on that counter weight.make it to heavy and it reduces efficiency after a set point
Great video. Love the 101 as well :)
I wonder if the texture on a stone ball would grip the pouch enough to give it some back spin, if it does would it be enough to make a difference to the range? I suppose it could be tested by coating a bowling ball in textured paint like the chip stuff on ceilings or the rough stuff on pick up beds?
What, chuck a giant golf ball?
You might get more range, but I'd expect your impact energy be decreased slightly due to lowered velocity upon impact. It would also affect the angle of impact.
You could also dimple it like a golf ball, or add some pitch to make it more sticky, to maybe get some extra backspin.
Probably wouldn't have much impact.
Air-resistance, spin, the magnus effect, and all that scale with the surface area of the projectile (radius^2) and speed. Gravity and inertia depends on mass (density * radius^3). So for a small, not very dense, fast projectile like a golf, spin and air resistance are quite important relative to the other physical effects. For a large, dense, relatively slow projectile like a bowling ball out of a trebuchet, they would be rather negligible.
I think with the amount fo mass to surface area ratio it wouldn't make much difference.
I'm quite into slinging and catapults and can get a noticeable curve on stones at range but it's far more noticeable with a longer pouch and granite or something else with a rough surface, even as perfectly round as a stone gets, however the velocity (and spin) on a long sling from someone practiced at it is probably more than the trebuchet, it may be worth consideration, I'm very much on the fence on the outcome, btw I'm not talking about intentionally rough shot but just the natural texture of carved or chiselled stone, edited to say about the catapult part, that's irrelevant lol
You're awesome Todd. Keep it up!
Honestly, slinging stuff is cool; but the real interest for me is seeing a craftsman tweaking and refining his tools. Lovely little video and rather interesting too!
I wonder if there's a way to reduce counterweight torsion, like if the axle connecting the counterweight to the throwing arm is longer but still passes comfortably between the upright legs.
The slower, full side-on view was so satisfying
Wonderful contraption and footage..........your jacket though..............:)
Can you adjust the sling length until you find the best results, then adjust the pin separately until the best results or will those differences affect each other, so that if you change one you would have to change the other to maximum results?
You could, but they are interrelated. I have a suspicion that actually the difference in distance between a 40, 45 or 50 degree loose would be pretty minimal, so I think I have been getting a bit concerned with exactly what angle, and should be more concerned with making the thing last
@@tods_workshop doesnt a low angle shot give the trebuchets more time to accelerate which would make up for the less optimal ballistic trajectory?
@@tods_workshop One more thing to consider is wind - I've read that it's better to use a slightly lower trajectory for a headwind or crosswind, as the longer the projectile is in the air, the more time the wind has to affect distance and aim (and in a crosswind, preserving your aim means throwing into the wind a bit to compensate, so it can be considered as similar to a headwind in terms of distance.) Also, as wind resistance slows the projectile's forward speed more the longer it's in the air, the optimum should always be just a little lower than 45 degrees in calm weather, but never higher unless you have a strong tailwind (or unless you're trying to e.g. drop your shot just over a curtain wall, at which point you need more verticality close to the impact point - but that's a separate question.) :-)
Wow that was a lot of shaking. I sure hope that when it explodes under it's own power, no one gets hurt. Maybe start triggering it from a little bit further away?
I wonder if a cage/mount bolted to the dart mid-shaft would work? It'd have to be pretty streamlined to survive a drag through the sling/trough though (and beefy too if it were to survive a snag). Hmm.
Also, how much trouble would it be to remount the trebuchet on a platform to allow for a longer arm? I'm thinking specifically of using those massive (1.5 - 3 m) concrete road barriers (not the thin ones but the rectangular blocks), the can come with interlocking ends but they may be very pricey, I've no idea. Maybe a trench would work too the same effect (though it looks like water would collect pretty fast in that location)? Come to think of it, a plank and post earth berm/trench might be just as good, graded for drainage of course. It would even keep the "medieval" feel for camera crews.
Gave that poor bunny at 6:10 a heart attack haha
Oh look; I appear to be pleased! One of the best phrases I've heard recently.
Great series, thanks!
Seeing a trebuchet destroy itself (as I'm sure the real things did occasionally) WOULD be some awfully unique TH-cam, you gotta admit it!
Fine tuning a Trebuchet can be tricky, alot of trials and mishaps but all worth it for a great shot.
i could be wrong but i think historic ones were some times on wheels to move them yes but also to take out some of the shock when used worth looking .into good video
Really shows why having the best engineer, a king could get, commanding and inspecting everything in relation to you war machines, would have been necessary on you war campaigns.
Building a successful trebuchet, would not be something you just slap together.
Perhaps you could collaborate with Steve Mould? A switch and strobe on the arm and a pressure switch on the sling would be trackable on the screen and give precise angular measurements.
tod sometimes people use a hammer to bend the pin a bit to adjust fine aim.
Beautiful woodworks, nice!
entertainment quality went up in this one lovely video tod
just to wonder. could it relate to frequencies, so that little changes doesnt actually hit the spot enough to do a better throw. anyway, im so hyped for all that ur gonna do with it!
Really enjoying this series, thank you.
Poor Graham, though. 😅
lol Todd that documentary style voiceover was actually pretty fun.
Thanks- I do need practice though; harder than I thought
anything that got trebuchet in the title got an instant like from me, thank you for the video
good work. nice demonstration. what is the shooting distance? with a heavier counterweight? did you manage to get a movie with the gopro ?
Hi Tod, as regards release angles, could you put a sheet of cardboard (perhaps disk shaped) on one of the uprights, then have a magic marker at right angles to the arm, held onto the arm with a "holder" as the arm rotates, it traces a circle on the cardboard, now, have it set up with a very light line (fishing line ?) from the magic marker to the part of the sling that slides off the hook.....that way, when the sling releases, no more line on the cardboard....should then be simple to see where the release occures.... of course, with all your experience with cross bow triggers etc, my guess is you will come up with a better way to "disengage" the magic marker........
Love the landy 101 in the back.
G'day Tod,
Loving the trebuchet series. I see in the main arm of the trebuchet there are three other holes for the basket to connect to. Have you experimented with those, or would they just worsen the performance?
I wondered how poorly it would fly with that heavy, blunt baffle you added. Maybe a pexiglass cone? not sure if that would survive the impact either though
You probably need some sort of mechanism to smooth the deceleration of the go-pro when it hits the ground. Shocks, springs, etc. Another option that may help would be to have some sort of sacrificial part connecting the go-pro enclosure to the shaft or rest of the head. It would be much easier for it to survive if it weren’t for the entire mass of the dart shaft trying to shove its way through where the go-pro is. One option would be for the shaft to be attached to the head at a slanted section joined by a sacrificial part: the force of impact breaks the connection, and the shaft slides off the angled surface and hits beside the head and gopro. The other, probably more complicated option would be to have the go-pro ejected from the head and be deflected to the side to ideally roll laterally away from the point of impact. I’ll throw together some (bad) drawings. The second idea might work decently well the more I think about it, while being more easily reusable… and I also don’t have much knowledge on techniques using sacrificial parts.
Hi Scott, You are right about deceleration and if this were onto concrete I would agree, but damp soil will allow for an acceptable deceleration, but I think I will move toward a more disposable camera for this.
You need a quad bike to jet around the field quicker and a couple grunts to winch it unloaded while staking the impact site.
Tuning these can be frustrating. Modify hook, sling, or sling rope length separately as each affects throw distance in odd ways. Weight thrown and counterweight changes will affect everything else. Lashed up some for Scouts. Threw pumpkins, weighted exercise ball, and buckets of walnuts. Never had a failure myself but have witnessed a few. Scary.
Wheels. Best thing I know to encourage a better transfer of energy from weight to projectile
I think we're all half pleased that Tod learned from his camera killing days - and half sad that he didn't further his world record attempt for destroying them! ;-)