The Best Glue After 2 Years
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 5 ก.ย. 2024
- data docs.google.co...
One more year lots more data! the Great glue test continues. this time we are looking at the 18 months and 2-year numbers to see how glues stand up over time.
Glue test video: • The Great Glue Test Ro...
How the test was conducted: • Testing Glues in The G...
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Holy sh*t man.... This is awesome. I just went through your spreadsheet and am utterly amazed at your level of detail! I need to get me some Dap Weldwood! I've never even heard of it but it looks like the new go to for woodturning glue ups.
Thanks for taking this on! It is making me feel better about my glue choices.
The long grain to end grain really shows a difference to that guy saying end grain glue up was just as strong, a few months ago. Although as I recall that test wasn't really testing what a regular woodworker would do.
They say PVA glues NEED clamping pressure for them to work properly and last. One of the first glue ups I ever done was laminating legs for a table, over 20 years later those legs are still together and completely SOLID. I didnt use clamps, used a "rub joint" with the PVA.
I actually did a test on that. And it's not that it needs the clamping force. It just needs a tiny tiny amount of glue in between the two surfaces. The clamps squeeze out the excess. If you use a rubbed joint it rubs out the excess. But just send pieces together without clamping them. You end up losing somewhere around 60% of the glue force.
@@WoodByWrightHowTo I think its a factor of gettin the glue into the pores and the grain. The clamps force the glue into the grain, a rub joint does the same thing only it is done by hand. Glueing stuff like Teak or Bubinga: oily woods..... it is not a thing of havin a thin film of glue between the surfaces, wiping with a solvent removes the oils from the pores and allows the glue to get into the grain...... gettin the glue into the grain is what matters, it creates a microscopic mechanical "grip" on the parts....... similar to the way a toothing plane would work for veneers. Like all woodworking.... its all about the grain :) Your stats were impressive here James, thank you for this :)
Holy mackerel. How about a summary, or a ranking of the glues by category?
Awesome spreadsheet, James! Have you ever had the issue come up where a particular glue changes or alters its formula? How would that effect your spreadsheet? I truly appreciate all the hard work you’re putting into this project!
Well... it would make the results meaningless re: the new formulation - or at the very least James should re-run a baseline to see how much the reformulation changed the strength. Since all the boards were glued up in 2019, it remains a valid experiment 'for the old formula'
"It's one of the most detailed spreadsheets I've ever made...it's a lot of fun!"
Words not commonly spoken together... :)
Interesting results, thanks for the video. The other glue video I saw today was from Culver Props. She says that Dap discontinued the Weldwood Plastic Resin she was using, so she had to switch to Cascophen. You don't want airplane propellers to delaminate.
Wow James. That is the best looking spreadsheet that I've seen in a long time with some great information. I like these kinds of tests because it helps me make better decisions on using different products. Will the spreadsheet be made available for viewing? Great job!
It's openly available on Google Docs - details in the video comments
New Year ! New testing ! Being a 'spreadsheet geek' myself, I admire the work put into this whole experiment and the time involved.
Fantastic testing and comparison, James! Thanks a lot! 😃
Stay safe there with your family! 🖖😊
Fantastic experiment. I normally just lick my boards and stick them together, but that has returned very poor results for some reason.
Can I ask what contingency measures are in place in the event of you being struck by a bus?
Love your work James
I have had some titebond 3 glued joints out in the weather for 1 year in Perth Western Australia. Joint has not failed. Wood is Tasmainia Celery top pine and and some Indonesian maple. Was interested to see how durable the Indonesian maple is as well. Have one end buried in the ground. Showing not rot to date. I have a bit this wood and interested to see if is ok for outdoor furniture.
I love that datasheet, so much information hidden in there.
I guess we'll be stuck watching the updates for a few more years! Fascinating stuff James!
"We'll be stuck". LOL
It's a great long running test! Do you have a long running test on exterior as well.
Another suggestion for a test. Choose a joint and test how it interacts with different glues. Including the dry joint also.
No, just a long running for regular.
Incredible work. Very impressive. I think this work could be published in a scientific journal or open access data sharing.
Also, I wanted to ask if you considered performing an accelerated aging test. This involves testing with minimum/max temperatures, UV light exposure, and more. From what I have seen, it is often performed in the adhesives field.
I thought about doing that. But there's something fun about using real time.
Please change your Mouse Pointer Style to Inverted, because it is hard to follow the movement of a White mouse on a White Background, Nice spread sheet.
This is a really useful presentation. Thank you.
In the space biz we always said “data is king”!
Really impressive! Good job!
you are awesome! gracias por compartir!
Data! Knowledge! Research! 💪🏼
Was just thinking. Your current test is longevity of glue in a static environment. You may consider adding another test with external periodic stress applied. Though, no good suggestion how to do it for the long term and many samples
I've thought about a bunch of different options of adding that. But haven't ever come across the method that I feel really works well and it would give results I would trust.
Man, these analysis videos are great!
I like these tests!
I remember seeing your results on TB3 and was dismayed I fell for the brand and label and made things for outdoor/wet use with TB3 thinking it was appropriate for the job....
That said, as a result of your testing, what changes have you made to your methodology?
I haven't made too many changes other than I don't use TB3 for exterior. I have changed my standard wood glue to Elmer's wood glue max. I'm not afraid to use super glue for short-term or low impact uses.
Titebond 3 is definitly water proof. Maybe he got a bad batch.or hes soaking the wood in water for weeks on emd.
@@johnbloom1109 actually watch the videos and try again
@@DracoOmnia i did. Ive used hide glue on wood joints exposed to rain hot and cold and they didn't fail. Im not buying tb3 not being water proof.
@@DracoOmnia I found the video where he discussed how he did his water/weather testing but can say that I have not had the same results as him.
For me personally, hide glue is a good all purpose weather good and same with TB3.
If you try to remove a wood joint used with either of the aforementioned glues using water, it will take a lot of warm water and a lot of time. Hide glue will just re glue itself back into place after it dries unless you completely wipe the wood dry of all hide glue.
TB3 is water resistant but it says right on the bottle not for used in submerged wood joints.
Just a comment on what my dad & I found while making a couple of boats in the early 1960s. We used Weldwood resin and found the joints to break in the wood not the glue. It was not done scientifically but is interesting. I still have several of those joints today and they are sound.
Almost all of the glues on the test will do that. But this test puts the stress directly on the glue to make it fail while supporting the wood. If you were to try to just break these the wood would fail on anything over 150psi.
Not the first to like, but first to comment! ❤️
Mom for the win.
Hi you forgot to add the link to the spread sheet like you did for the chisels.
Woops. docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1GAZrhrtJPi8-iqPRVfqgOgf7RTg8Vqmen6OKJ4Ae6_I/edit?usp=drivesdk
Where can we look at the spreadsheets in a easy to read file?
There's a link in the description. And if you want to work with it, you can always make a copy and download it.
I would love to ask your opinion on contact cement for wood. I have a sculpture that will be indoors and without any stress. I need to glue many little round pieces but very accurately so I cant really afford squeeze out and its impossible to clamp. Would you have an opinion on a double layered contact cement glue up (long grain to long grain)? Thank you in advance!
Contact cement will work okay but it's not a great long-term solution. Tends to get brittle and fall in a decade or so. If there's no stress at all super glue with accelerant works really well though after 2 or 3 years it's a strength goes down to around 15 to 20 psi.
Thank you! So just to be clear, contact cement with no stress on the joint will fall apart in 10 years?
And do you mean the 2P-10 gel?
In general it doesn't last longer. And yes I would probably go with the super glue like 2P-10 as long as there's not going to be any stress on it.
Thanks for being so incredibly helpful! 🙏🙏🙏🙏🙏🙏
Thank you so much! What fish glue do you recommend?
I have changed over to using Elmer's wood glue max. But my second favorite wouldbe titebond Ii
@@WoodByWrightHowTo Thank you James! I have also been using EWGM on your recommendation, with great results! But my question was about fish glue :^)
@@jeffsimpson9232 I'd recommend the red snapper, pan fried.
First the disclaimers I am not an adhesive expert and the things I say are to the best of my knowledge, I am a Test Engineer, a Professional Engineer and hold both bachelor's and master's degrees in Mechanical engineering and Mechanics. I have not watched your other videos. That being said, I believe you are trying to apply a shear load to the bond line. What you need to do is produce a curve at each point in time. You are producing a single point. To do what you are trying to do you would need thousands of boards in your garage. At the very minimum because of the variations in wood and glue lots you would need to test 15 samples (and it should be more like 30) of each glue type for each time period. You should also know there 3 types of failure, shear (which you are doing), tension and bending. It is my understanding that CA glue is good in tension but not very good in shear (which your tests show). Please don't take this the wrong way but your data may be very misleading. I have been testing since 1984 if you don't count my time in school and even after all that time I still have to carefully plan each test. This is a massive undertaking. Off the top of my head to cover the subject you would need 9 setups, end grain to end grain, end grain to long grain and long grain to long grain for each of the 3 types of failure for each type of glue and 15 samples each (a minimum of 135 tests for each time period and type of glue for 5 glue types once a year for 10 years you need 6750 samples). You better have a massive garage.
Tim Rothgeb, you are correct. In order to get reliable quantitative results, James would need more samples for each round of testing, increased records of the properties of the wood, and a record of the conditions in the garage. James chose to limit the scope of his test to make it practical.
I would not rely on the specific numbers in James' data, the relative values are useful. That is with the understanding that the samples represent a single condition. Because each data point is based on a single sample, it may deviate from the true value. This is where James' subjective interpretation is valuable. He can examine the failure mode and weight the values.
James, this is an impressive series of tests. It does not address all of the possible variables, but has limited them to a manageable number.
Bob I understand what you are saying but even the relative results can't be relied upon. The data is going to be on a curve and a single point can be anywhere on that the curve. The data from one glue could be from the weak end and another glue could be from the strong end of the curve. I suspect this is part of the reason for the variability in his curves that show the progression of glue strength over time. I even question the adjustment of the data because the wood failed. The purpose of glue is to hold the wood together and wood failing shows that the glue is doing its job. I think both James and those watching these videos should know the limitations of the data. If he could put error bars on his data and adjust them for the single data point they might be more useful but I suspect that the error bars would be almost as large as the data. My point is that there are a large number of variables in this and without a large amount of data you really don't know much.
Boop.
Amazing effort but there are so many variables despite your efforts there are some major flaws in your tests.
For example you are using epoxy the way most woodworkers do and it's wrong. I speak as a time served boatbuilder and I know epoxy. Epoxy resin and hardner are not a glue for bonding two bits of wood together. They need to have added either wood flour or fumed silica. The reason being that epoxy in its resin hardner mix will absorb into the wood and leave a dry joint. The correct way to use it is precoat and allow it to absorbmaybe more than once, then thicken the remainder with a filler, say fumed silica and use that at honey to ketchup consistency as your glue.
I am almost positive you haven't done this as if you had it would have won your gap filling test hands done, for a start epoxy doesn't shrink. You also need to make sure your clamping pressure is correct. Epoxy doesn't need to the same level of clamping pressure that say a regular wood glue does. The epoxy will win most if not all the time if you use it correctly as it will absorb deep into the wood and produce a chemical bond from deep within the wood fibres. A lot of hassle, absolutely, best glue on the planet yes.
Also urea formaldehyde resins like Epoxy, Cascamite and Weldwood Plastic resin glue are way better for things like bent imaginations as they don't creep over time.
I'm not being negative but even your extensive and exhaustive process is not totally comprehensive.
Adhesives are like relationships they grow over time and with familiarity.
If you want a simple test to show how strong epoxy is in comparison to all your other products glue end grain to end grain, you will find you need to wet out the epoxy several times as it will just suck into the end grain and then when you add your fillers to complete the mix to apply tomthe glue surface you will have practically welded the wood together.
Epoxy is totally impervious to water and will continue to strengthen for all time as it continues to cure over a very long time. So it should also be winning youbexterior trials.
Keep up the good work.