I gotta hard disagree with your opinion that the characters in marvel rivals are generic compared to overwatch. To be fair, I understand why you have that opinion, but I would personally counter that by saying characters have sub archetypes within their respective roles that are intentionally designed to feel similar so as to incentivize players to swap and try other characters depending on a given scenario. For example, Mantis and Luna snow have extremely similar kits however Mantis helps with giving a damage bonus whereas Luna snow is able to heal any given target regardless of where they are via her statue ability. I believe the intention for the character design being this way is both to allow players to feel more comfortable swapping depending on what the team needs as well as swapping to generate team synergies. If you have an Adam warlock, maybe you choose Mantis over Luna snow or vice versa maybe you have a Jeff and that incentivizes you to pick Luna. It's especially apparent with the damage role as spider man, Black panther, psylocke, magik, and to a lesser extent wolverine are all basically the same in so far as what they want to do and how they want to do it, but their approach is what separates them along with team synergies. Your team got a venom, well he gives spiderman access to a one shot combo thanks to the synergy as well as give venom an extra 150 HP which specifically for venom is huge as his healing is increased based on missing health so if he has more breathing room to get low to pop his ability he can get a lot more out of his kit than he otherwise could. I feel like one of the problems with overwatch was in fact how diverse the characters were in so far as your skills with one particular character did NOT translate well between others especially for healers which I'd argue is the role that requires the most swapping for a given scenario at least back in the 6v6 days as healers also carried utility to counter certain DPS or buff yours.
Its the same people who cried about Overwatch in the first place: "wah wah make supports more survivable! wah wah make role queue! wah wah too many dps players!" and they are literally saying the same about marvel rivals and trying to get the game to become shit like OW2.
Controversial take it doesn’t need role lock. The biggest incentive to play roles is actually the team up abilities, think about that the team up ability’s are so strong that you don’t need to role lock. Then if you did role lock it would devolve into team up abilities vs other team up abilities. Like “oh we have hela loki they have groot shark we win.” Or “we have star lord, mantis Adam warlock we never die and we win.”
Although I want it to be like that. I wonder what the play will be from the devs. Will they cater to the high level players who stream and might bring more people into the game or will they not let the temptation of catering them to keep more people in the game.
I don’t have fun playing tank. I have fun when I can play dps. Role queue help me getting to play my dps with the people who are ready to play tank and support with me. There you are.
I like taking a game seriously from time to time and "sweating" but if the players kill off the fun then what's thr point in me playing for ANY reason. Prioritize fun, don't listen to "pros".
The game needs time to evolve NATURALLY before they start making large-scale changes. Let the players figure things out FIRST, then address the standout problems
Please dont let Overwatch players change what Rivals is, go play Overwatch if you want that type of stuff. Lord, let the game live & breathe for at least 6 months-1 year.
Yes. I’m an OW fan and my comment was they should let the “real” player base develop before any major changes instead of listening to people who may just go back to their main game a month from now
Real. I wear to god im not lying i actually quit overwatch the exact day they added role que. Overwatch is one of if not the only AAA hero shooter that has role que and it died because of it@Falloutx360a
@@phatminhphan4121 i've played OW since launch and you clearly haven't played much of Rivals, or you would immediately see how different the game is. Also it being similar or not has no bearing on the comment you're replying to; it's just a bad faith line of "questioning"
No thanks. I'm playing marvel because it doesn't have some of thr same issues playing overwatch. It hasn't beaten EVERY PROBLEM but at lest it doesn't have ALL of them.
Yea it’s main problem right now is every match in ranked having 4-5 people refusing to switch off dps and 2 or 3 of them going like 0/9 but blaming everyone else. Role que would be a huge blessing for people like myself who flex pick or support main.
It’s wild how these team shooter games attract NON team working players. I’m definitely a DPS player but I’ll play tank or support for the team. Since theirs so many new hero’s to play as. Which everyone should be trying
No literally, I love strategist but if we have 2 strategists and no vanguard, I’ll do my best on vanguard, idk why so many people refuse to be the change, ppl wanna complain abt 6 dps, well why don’t they switch first?
In the beginning I thought I wanted role lock in Rivals but recently I’ve been having doubts. Last night we lost to a game composed of 0-3-3. And we were running 2-2-2. We were solid with comms but lost coz the enemies were so creative with their comps. I think it’s important we keep the creativity of the players which leads to more fun instead of trying to pigeonhole the game into a rigid identity.
this. ive won solo healing as mantis with a 1-4-1 comp, against 2-2-2. we just played around our limitations well and it was honestly really fun. side note, mantis might be kind of busted so maybe that’s what made it possible, but still
Imo this is less creativity and more that your team sucks. Enemy team got lucky instalocking their favorite heroes and winning vs bad players is what mainly happened here. At least that’s what I would take away from that game if I were on that team that won cuz more times than not those type of comps aren’t meta and are played on accident in solo queue. Btw I’m team open queue ATM but I feel this example is weak
@ here again with the meta comment. You just regurgitate every TH-camr says in your echo chambers. You don’t know everything, neither these TH-camrs. Get off your high horse and stop being narrow minded.
@@mrsisig7443 I’m just stating my own opinion, just cuz a random TH-camr you watched agreed with me doesn’t mean I’m on some kinda high horse. Just cause someone disagrees with you they’re narrow minded all of a sudden 😂 you just mad cuz I called you bad
I'm with Freedo, Team-ups is the way to go. If you get a team of 6 dps maybe let some heroes heal out of combat, heal off kill, life steal, gain more from health packs, etc. If you're down to 1 tank and 1 support, give extra hp to the tank and extra healing to the support when healing that tank, increase the tank's CDs, make the support move faster, etc. It can be hero based, but those are just a couple ideas. There are ways to fill in that void. OW didn't have those extra systems and layers that they've been experimenting with recently (probably because they saw games like Deadlock and Rivals incoming). Role lock was perfect for OW because they didn't seem interested in adding all those layers of complexity and tried to allow those natural hero synergies to drive the game.
But KarQ is WRONG about "oh they had 2 tanks and we didn't so.." but there is already existing core characters designed to actually break apart 2 tank compositions, they are so lost in mix-maxing that they don't see how you can break apart these comps
yeah, i mean the biggest problems i have faced aren't compositions like tank team vs no tank teams, it's the speed blitz characters like ironfist and the Arrrge imposters one shotting constantly, but that's also considering that the game is literally not even been out for two weeks, so any of these criticisms we may have are not based off of a good set of "data" as most people are still learning rather than being Hyper Competitive.
@skrrrtsusman3450 two tanks with shields invalidates hawkeye and dive tank duos make ironfist their prison bitch. 😂 Two tanks solve both those issues. 😂
@@rsmith8113 If he is talking about tournaments then you are literally required to sign up with a team and you will most likely wanna go with people you know who will play the role for you.
I've been beating two tanks as the solo tank nearly every March as hulk or venom or Captain America. As long as our team keeps their healers down they won't beat a good tank with two mediocre ones 😂
I do not want role queue, i dont want marvel rivals to take after overwatch, i want a fun arcade shooter with my favorite superheroes. And before you accuse me of being an instalock DPS, i main tank in overwatch and play strange and hulk in rivals. I dont give a crap if im playing with 4 dps, guess what, ITS A GAME, LET PEOPLE HAVE FUN
cant have fun when you alone as hulk with 4 other dps :) and other team is insta healing any dmg u do. If you want to play an arcade game go to the arcade XD I personally dont have fun if i'm just taking L's all season. you play tanks in rivals, cool. But you aint everyone and there are twice as many dps than other roles. Do the math. teams will be unbalanced either way. quickplay is there for a reason. Comp should be like it is. Competitive
@DanielFruckinFlower so your argument is "I don't have fun the way you do, so you're wrong"? Literally trying to argue with my subjective experience tanking in rivals I have fun regardless. The fact that there's more of any one role doesn't automatically = "role lock is necessary" and as far as I know there's hero pick/bans in the tournament mode, why don't you go play that if you're so interested in a competitive experience?
7:28 THANK YOU!!! as an average to slightly above average ranked player from OW I really don't want Rivals to follow that same sweaty foot step lol. We have plenty of sweaty games already, let Rivals be a more fun and wacky game
Makes sense to me, I stopped playing Rivals after about the fourth day due to the rampant toxicity and lack of any real semblance of people trying to make team compositions that work.
People in Rivals acting really pious about this but they need to remember, the people with experience In this type of game are overwatch players. We’ve seen and played a lot. I’m sorry that having 5 people pure dps queuing isn’t fun for people like me who play support or flex. I get you all want the game to be pure unrestricted fun, but they already made ranked a thing. Competitive scenes bring money and 4-5 idiots refusing to swap from dps does not make games fun for the rest of us.
@mechs4life I’m coming from high Masters in OW, and there isn’t anything more boring than 1 Giga tank that won’t die no matter what, and 2 supports that can deny damage at any time with just one press of a button. This game will make plenty of money without caving to a strict set of restrictions because every 10 games you get 5 dps. That’s a trade off I’ll gladly take instead of the stale, repetitive, boring experience OW competitive is now. You really enjoy picking a hero and immediately having to counter pick because your opponent swaps? You really enjoy finally getting the itch to queue dps and waiting 15 min just to get a bad tank and lose in 5 min? If you do, like I said, please go play Overwatch, we don’t want you here. Go sweat in your locked format on the boring game please. Thanks
@@mechs4life if they are expecting to make this an esports type title and go for money this will flop so hard. The main thing this game needs to focus on is fun. Especially in it's Inception. The point should be to play as your favorite marvel characters and fight against other characters. That in and of itself is chaotic and that's what needs to be loved. If chaos isn't your thing go somewhere else. Hate to make this a long thing but this basically happened with destiny. The game was super fun pvp in a groove. Knew what kept players coming back. Then in d2 they try to go the competive route. Slow the game down. Reduce cool downs. Make it more gun play less abilities. You know what happened? Took them 2 years but they literally reversed every single change they made in d2 pvp back to d1 pvp because people DID NOT WANT A COMPETITIVE GAME. it was fun because it was chaotic. Not everything needs to be sweaty esports.
"my team of pro players CHOSE to play with one tank (hulk of all tanks...) and because we CHOSE a bad team comp compared to another team of pros we lost and that means the game should change to what i want." okay buddy
funny you don't see a problem with this. You can insinuate it was a dumb statement to make, but in that same statement it very obviously paints a picture to a broader issue this game will have due to allowing morons to pick whatever they want.
@@WutTheDeuceGaming those "morons" are gonna pick whatever they want anyway and you're gonna complain because it's not the meta in their role, it's never enough, just let people enjoy what they play and if you're that serious about winning than you'll learn to adapt and fill, balance is subjective afterall and even competitive is just dictated by the rules and we all play by the same rules but what matters is fun and the more you restrict players through role locks, systems in the game and even other heros designed to specifically beat other heros or stuff in the game the more you make it less fun Hense why ow sucks so much now, the vc sucks because they restricted people, the match maker sucks because role lock makes queues take forever and they also have strong loswr queue systems that pair losers with teams more likley to win leading to more homogenized win rates because we gotta get the numbers perfect to equal fun. The balance patches suck because half the heros are designed to restrict other heros like sombra being designed to counter doom or moira to genji or bap and kiri to literal ults, and basically just easy strong denial buttons, it all restricts players and makes the game less fun so just git gud and learn how to play with others 😂
@@shawngorski9714that’s why I suggest role que but not lock and not really role q but hero q. You search for the first of your picks and then the 2. and then the third. That way you also play what you want. Also there could be a search for the whole role.
The highest level of the game is already going to select correct rolls, I don’t want it to be forced on us. Even though it may be frustrating, the game just needs to focus on being fun & letting people pick they’re favorite marvel characters. If you’re that frustrated about team composition in bronze then be the one to do what is necessary. & this game isn’t overwatch, if you want it to be overwatch go play overwatch.
To be fair....we wouldnt need role que if people actually payed attention to what roles are needed. You know how many times ive been forced to tank when Im support. Then our support turns out to be ass. Its frustrating as fk. Its like playing with morons who belong in quick play
This is what everyone seems to be ignoring. Like I’m literally playing comp matches where I have 5 instalock dps and me as the one support yet I’m doing better than my dps and out healing the other supports.People need to recognize when a switch is needed especially in COMPETITIVE.
I’ve been asking for a role preference indicator. Some people are good at all roles and some are only good at one. But would be nice to know who is filling a role because they like the role and who is filling because they feel they need to.
The amount of times i've had to swap off tank TO support is actually annoying. Everyone wants to dps, but most of them can't aim for shit. Mean while im ace as Tank & Support. Shout out Rocket Raccoon.
I think my biggest issue is decision making with who needs to be dealt with on the enemy team. For example, they’d have a storm and iron man, but my dps won’t try to hit them. Many times in the middle of playing vanguard or strat, I’d go widow to knock them out and quickly switch back just so we can push
OW Classic was a breath of fresh air, and while it’s undeniable how far the game has come mechanically, I’m loving the whimsy of Rivals and I agree that we should keep the philosophy of both games different. Honestly that is healthier for both games.
My main issue with role queue not discussed here is it actually made the game a lot less fun as a flex player who likes playing characters from all roles, but not necessarily many characters in any one given role. I enjoyed getting into a match, not sure which role I'm about to play, and picking a character based on my teammates picks, what roles are missing, the potential synergies, the map, to counter pick, what I felt like picking at the time, etc. A lot of times in my competitive matches in OW1, I'd switch between roles throughout the match. Let's say I start with a dps that struggles into their Genji, I'd switch into Winston as he was my comfort pick amongst characters good into Genji. My two tank teammates would notice and one might switch to dps to even things out, or we'd just keep playing as 3 tanks, both of which were ok. In other cases, in the first round I'd play healer and be upset at the performance of our dps, so I'd switch into dps and have one of our dps switch to healer, sometimes they would, sometimes not, but in any case having that flexibility is significant, especially in games with small rosters to being with, and an even smaller roster of characters 'competitively viable' that are also characters I as a player might be comfortable/enjoy playing. A game built around the idea of switching characters around throughout the match in order to counterpick. This also made the different matches feel more different from one another, as my experience playing Ana in one match and Junkrat in another, was very different from the experience of a support player always playing one from a handful of supports which all fulfill a very similar function. Maybe I'm in the minority but I'd imagine many players don't just main 1 role and enjoy most or all characters in that role with hardly none in the other roles, but actually have different characters they enjoy in different roles and they wouldn't want to be pre-locked into the few characters they enjoy in the 1 specific role they queued into before the match starts, without being able to switch between roles according to what the situation demands.
with that way of thinking just play the open question version over role que. if you load into a match and dont want to play the characters YOU PICKED, then that’s on you
It not that players want Rivals to be Overwatch. Its that tank and heal player are sick of players instalocking dps. They are now force to flex for them or lose. Some say just lose and have fun. Thats not fun for some people. They dont want to replace quickplay with role que. They just want role que to be added so they dont have to deal with those players. Which is fair, you dont have to wait the que times as your guys will still have quickplay. Its a Win Win. If somehow most of the players go to role que then that just mean its the better system. If not then QP Wins. Its not that hard to think about. Also most of the people that want QP for the diversity just lock in dps anyway, they dont care for diversity outside of you forming a team around them.
Agree with this. It's not catering to sweats and competitive players by introducing role queue. It's not fun trying to sus out other people who just instalock 4 dps. DPS can still DPS but healers and tanks don't have that extra added stress where no one wants to do either.
@@YoshiJoshi1994 yeah man i just wanna play the character i like, i don't want to be forced to play something i don't want to play just because no one else did either. I really cannot understand the reasoning behind how that is fun to anyone. Like yeah you can have the sweaty mindset of "well don't you want to win?" Fucking no, I want to have fun. What's the point if it's not fun? I essentially got forced to be a support main in Overwatch because of it being open queue and I am not interested in doing that again. The sweaty mindset of finding comps and all this shit is from the perspective of these youtubers that have nothing better to do lol. I mean don't get me wrong I'll get sweaty as fuck on Psylocke (lol) but I simply don't want to get sweaty on Magneto or fucking Mantis it's not fun ahutighritgeua
This, and well role que/ min 1 per role is the way but at least keep that for comp, QP can be as is. People not wanting this are copers or hard-lock dps players or stacked with a team hence oblivious to the solo queue tank/supp player troubles, no one else literally.
the game hasn't been out for a week and yall are talking about splitting the playerbase. everything you said doesn't address the player split. pretending that's not something to be concerned about is disingenuous.
The only thing I think I'd (begrudgingly) accept is 1 of each "role" required to play, and no specific role queue whatsoever because that will kill the game on the spot.
Why not just remove objectives and have a team death match at this point honestly. The whole point of objective based games is that you need a balanced team to hold a front line, deal damage amd secure kills, and support the team with utility and healing. So role lock or not, whatever team comp that can do that the most efficiently is going to have a huge advantage. If everyone in the community just wants to run DPS and fight each other, maybe we should lean into a mode that caters to that design rather than try to force teamwork into a community that isnt interested in doing that.
The witch hunt for anything remotely OW baffles me to no end. Role queue isn't perfect, but as you said, objective based games like this require those roles. Hell, those roles wouldn't exist if the devs thought they weren't needed. At least a role limit is needed. Insta hating on the idea of role queue makes me think the majority of the playerbase just doesn't give a fuck about winning. The number of times I load in first, pick dps, then have everyone else also pick dps is insane. They just don't care and this forces people who do into ALWAYS adjusting for their shit teams. The players who don't get it are ones who've never had to be the ones adjusting. The game is ALREADY copying OW, it doesn't make you any special to advocate 'grr OW bad, Rivals destroyed OW grr'. The two games can learn a lot about each other. Being this repulsed by one another is dumb as hell
@@oscarm4095 i dunno i had a team of dps and one healer and we smashed through a "balanced" comp after we picked a tank and healer. It's not required, it's just is you play well with your team and/or communicate well like pinging a flank and the backliner making sure that if they engage they do so at half health or the blitz characters coordinating to break through a tank before the healer can save them
@@skrrrtsusman3450 I've also had games like that. It's the exception, not the norm. Not every random group gets lucky synergy and play against an enemy you can stomp, ideal comp or no.
@@skrrrtsusman3450I played many many games where there's 5 DPS and one healer and this team is constantly terrible, so what? If you shot your foot and you're limping around, you cannot just ignore the problem by saying "just be better" when you could choose to be fully healthy and also do better at the same time which has better results than former
7:38 He says “do we want the highest level players to dictate how the game is?” But also says hero banning (higher levels only) is great in a game without role queue. Why do I care about hero banning being good for the game if the majority of players are too low rank to even ban any heroes?
The thing about tank and support are ... how come there's not that much options. Why the DPS has the most characters to choose? I flex, so tank and support is what I usually play and it's nice OW2 is add more supports and tank, but just like OW, DPS still has the most... I wonder what would happen it was reverse. I do like playing variety but people forcing me to flex sucks...
No one is forcing you to play anything, you are choosing to flex for your team which is admirable I fill too when I want but primarily I only play Spider-Man he reminds me of playing the PS4 game and I have more fun just playing Spider-Man than I've ever had winning. I recommend just playing whatever your favorite character is primarily and flexing sometimes if you feel like it will be a fun change of pace!
Did u know overwatch used to have 4 roles. It was tabk attack defense and support. They got rid of defense role thats why theirs a lot of damage heroes in that game. Marvel rivals came out. Its not even a month yet and still season 0. Relax. If u dint like how u have to play tank or support in an unrated game then dont. No one is forcing you to. If your complaining about it cuz of ranked games. Then idk man just dont play ranked?
yeah that's what ive been saying, like its insane that in OWs tank and supports COMBINED didn't even match the DPS role, i wonder why so few people were picking them. I hope Rivals peioritizes tank and support release(especially tank rn)
Also an important thing for overwatch players to consider is you guys realize this game is a few days old for most people right? While dps is half the cast? People are just learning their first characters so most people aren't going to be able to flex yet and most people are likely going to pick up dps because again that makes up most of the characters.
I played OW since day 1 pretty consistently, eventually all my friends were pushed off the game by becoming more competitive and sweaty. I think the moment they add role lock/queue is when the casuals will start dropping off, Rivals will likely fall into all the same “fixes” as OW like balancing which is a never ending cycle of metas that filter out everyone that is not hyper comp
I loved tanking in both OW1 and WoW. Parsed 90+ consistently in burning crusade and wrath classic. Loved Rein and Sigma. It's just, when OW went to 5V5, my buddy was just better than me, and I couldn't find a niche after that. This idea that no one enjoys tanking is just false. I'm sick of hearing it.
"no one" is obvious hyperbole because if it were literally true, there'd be zero matches being made. Yes, people enjoy tanking, there's just significantly less of them than Damage enjoyers. In Overwatch 1's case, it was 3 to 1. In Marvel Rivals, it sounds like it's 4 to 1 (or worse).
@@ubadman1 I was also thinking 5 to 1, but the game hasn't been out for very long. I just know it's worse than Overwatch, so I put "or worse" to cover my bases 😅
Obviously, organizing a solid team comp is good for wins, but... Not gonna lie, like 90% of the fun of this game is being able to play characters that I like. If I get forced into playing characters I don't like I'll just stop playing and the niche purists will get to have the game to themselves, while the game makes less money.
Mostly likely the same with the other play not wanting to switch. So its a lose lose. So basically a lot of people are in the mindset of its my way or the highway. Then again people who think like that tend to not stick to a game long term anyway.
I hate to be that guy and I don't want this game to become Overwatch, BUT structure is important. Without a form of structure you will have chaos and chaos breeds terrible matches. It's a team based game but all I'm hearing in individualized thoughts. What "I" want to do, who "I" want to play. Where is the what "we" need, what "we" need to do, what "we" need to play. Its a team based game if you don't want to work as a team then don't play period.
@ It's hard line to take to say, "If you don't play a certain way, then don't play the game." You're definitely "that guy." -- Regardless, there may be a misunderstanding here. I'm not suggesting that there's no value in picking characters to support your team, I'm suggesting that forcing it by removing team comp choices makes the game less appealing. And frankly, it's not less selfish to say, "We already have enough DPS characters, I have determined that you should play anchor or support because I prefer it that way." What if I have a six-stack and we all want to anchor, or all want to DPS? We now can't do that because someone determined there's only one kind of acceptable team comp. That's uninteresting to me.
@ Different people might value different team comps for competitive purposes. Why lock them into only one or two options? How is that a superior experience?
Let’s be 100% here. Competitive players want some form of role lock. Casual players don’t. So why not just make the casual mode non role lock and the competitive mode role lock.
Just give to ranked only, or make it low rank only, all the high rank players already default to 2 2 2 themselves. Low ranks have no idea whats the ideal team comp is and they just slam 5 dps insta lock in ranked. Its more needed in low ranks@@rsmith8113
Honestly for competitive there should be a minimum one pick for each role. I dont want a role queue like overwatch and have to wait 5 minutes to get a match and would like for quick match to be open as it is. But for comp it is very frustrating when you're trying to win and pick an off role and meanwhile you'll have the rest of the team going dps and getting 0 elims
Yeah I don’t think this game needs role lock. I just think they need to add more tanks and supports to balance the roster . Part of what made original Overwatch fun, was that people use to just main characters, not roles. Like a person could be a dva, zen, mcree main. Do I think people should play other roles other than dualist? Absolutely. But we can’t really blame the community if the dps roster is 3x the size of the vanguard and strategist roles. I think if they had even numbers on the other roles they’d be more enticing to play. I don’t know how much it’ll help tank, but for support? Support is generally popular as a role, and adding more will bring more people into it. Plus, so far I think 132 is actually pretty good
I kinda remember why Overwatch feels so hard to play because of competitive where they say balance changes were not biased towards pro players because heroes like reaper where he's very strong in an unorganized competitive is close to 0 use rate in league. Everyone just want to enjoy that occasional 5-6 kills in a single ult weather you're a tank or support. Back in the days when overwatch was out and still early in competitve, it was fun with nothing to lose about, game start to feel sour because you felt useless in your role when someone in the other role isn't making any progress.
The stages of Grief over the death of OW Denial: "Its just Concord again, it'll be dead in two weeks" Anger: "You're all shills!! Trolls! Bots!! OW Is the KING!!!" Bargaining: "Well if we add role que, and better tanks, and its too team based lets have more skill expression like OW"
To counterpoint, I'd say there's more skill expression to be had in MR so far because of tanks not being invincible and no such thing as Baptiste and Brigitte.
@@Spyduhmahn Exactly. The game is made around the teamups rather than the roles themselves. Granted, Hela is far and away the best duelist atm. The main issue with MR right now is that, as Flats put it, you have to pull off good combos with characters like Spider-Man and Iron Fist to get the same value as Hela plinking someone in the head twice. Also, there should be a teamup with 3 duelists to embrace the higher amount of them. Afaik, 1 tank and 3 duelists may be the most reliable way to play due to how good duelists currently are.
@@sir_gortYeah you def can feel it in games that 1-3-2 comps are the way to go. Classic 2-2-2 works but it doesn't feel as fun or as flexible in a match especially when team ups can out way the need of a classic comp as 2-2-2.
@@TheElectricGhost With the teamups, if MR was restricted to 2-2-2, I think the only teams you will see competitively are (Thor + Hela), (Adam Warlock + Mantis), Dr. Strange, and either Star Lord or flex slot. Basically, the Thor and Hela teamup would be one of if not the only teamups that would be present, especially since Hela is THE best duelist in the game.
DONT ADD RQ, however I hope they add more supports and add more team-up abilities for Supports and tanks specifically. Dont lock us in, just make it a more effective and fun choice to play as.
The support team ups are really good tho. If i see a luna on my team i lock in jeff or namor. Namor on defense to hold point. Jeff cuz jeff. Then we got cloak and dagger. Id be happy to play moon knight (who i main) to give them more healing capabilities. Thor hela and loki is crazy good and thats one for each role. Then u got rocket for infinit ammo for punisher and winter soldier. U got mantis and adam for free rezz. Idk man. Supoorts have the best team ups
I've secured many wins with solo healer. I feel the pain because I want to tank actually. But playing Jeff as solo healer is a pretty easy win. Keeping psylocke, Hawkeye etc alive can melt their tanks. Your DPS just needs to focus their healer and when they don't see a tank they kind of spread out so it's easier to squash healers quick
The problem is also that you’re being forced to play it because you know nobody else will, wether you like it or not. That’s why role queue is so important for being able to have fun (picking the role you want) and be more in control of balancing since there’s less things they need to look out for.
@@zaboono without role queue we don the mantle ourselves, with role queue were forced to don the mantle, it's like going to do the dishes , your mom tells you to go do the dishes while you were already planning to do it, sure you'll do it but you won't do it happily even if you already planned to
@@miguelortiz8350 well, just turn comp into role queue then, simple, no division, people who want to instalock dps can, just takes them longer. And casual mode is not impacted at all.
Just something to add to the discussion that I think a lot of people, some creators included, have missed: The Team-ups in the game currently are seasonal, and the buffs given to "anchor" characters for those Team-ups are applied at all times, regardless of whether or not the Team-up is active. The Team-ups are labelled as seasonal in the UI within the game itself. They are going to come and go as time/seasons progress and are not likely to be permanent. Using them as a balancing measure for particular heroes or combinations of heroes does not (to me) seem like the most stable approach to balance moving forward. I'm still not decided on whether or not I would like to see role queue added to Rivals, and frankly I think it's too early for anyone to have an opinion one way or the other. But to your point about using stronger versions of Team-ups or creative "teamplay" DPS Team-ups to make "creative" team comps work to avoid role-queue, I don't think that's the solution personally. The players I've run into who are instalocking their favorite DPS hero, aren't playing that hero or any hero for the benefit of the team, and I don't imagine that they would be instalocking a different hero because it dropped a healing turret or something. I think having creative (not necessarily strong, but creative) Tank+Tank or Tank+Support Team-ups would incentivize more interesting gameplay all around instead. Imagine Hulk being able to throw an enormous chunk of ice that caused an AoE stun if Luna Snow is on his team, or Captain America being able to use Thor's Mjolnir (and Thor getting a new weapon, Stormbreaker perhaps?) granting them each a new ability/small damage buff, or Strange reducing the cooldowns on Magneto's bubbles by blocking damage with his shield while absorbed damage by Magneto's bubbles shortened the cooldown on Strange's portal, or Groot changing Rocket's BRB so that it was on Groot's back and was active as long as Groot is alive, but didn't offer team revives, and Groot would respawn at Rocket Raccoon's location (with low health) instead of spawn? I think having Tank+Tank or Tank+Support Team-ups being interesting, creative, and FUN would solve the role-queue issue without infringing on anyone's freedom to run whatever "creative" comp they wanted. Lastly, worrying that the game will become competitive and sweaty seems like a foregone conclusion to me. Players who flock to these games, who grind the ranked ladders, who min/max their team compositions, and discuss "the meta" are going to take a competitive approach to said game. And Marvel Rivals has pretty clearly set its sights on capturing that audience of players by releasing a game that very clearly has competitive Overwatch inspirations and esports aspirations (i.e. similar game modes, abilities, a built-in replay viewer, and tournament mode on launch day). Whether you, I, or anyone else may like it, Rivals is a competitive game aimed at competitive players.
I really think the best option to keep the game the same is to put more popular characters in marvel as tank and make their kits as fun as possible so more ppl would be more willing to play it
Nothing more dangerous to a new game than streamers who think they know better and force a game to become something it isn’t. Let Marvels play out naturally and allow people to master each character and see how the team comp plays out. Let people be creative first
They say this because they have already seen this happen. The issue the game face now happen in 2016 in Overwatch. Player are saying and doing the exact same thing. Dps flood the matches>Dev make stronger tanks and heal to get more player to play them> Someone notices that a comp of 3 buffed tanks and 3 buffed heals make an unkillable team> Quickplay dies. We have been down this road before.
@ understood but overwatch did everything the streamers asked for and it’s dead. Thats my only concern is that marvels hasn’t even had a chance to be itself yet. Allow the game to breathe for awhile. Stop trying to read the future. But yeah it’s complex I get it. Appreciate the reply
@@umbralflow6883except they haven't because rivals isn't overwatch and isn't made by blizzard. At least give the devs time to come up with a solution that doesn't completely change the game. It's literally been a few days.
For me, it’s not so much “oh my team isn’t balanced, we can’t work together as well!” It’s more like “we have zero strategists, I feel like I can’t even play the fucking game” When you have 5-6 duelists (which does happen often, at least in my MMR bracket) you either just fall over and die because of a lack of sustain and fighting over health packs, or you have to play so passively you surrender so much space and lose the objective anyway. It’s miserable
I have to agree with you 100% when you say that "ranked mode sucks". Absolutely. The very concept is defined by "elitist opinion". What's hilarious is that, in early Overwatch (and pretty much any other hero shooter or even MOBA-style game) the so-called "meta" is always challenged--and rightly so, because the so-called "meta" is just the slack-jawed, common denominator opinion that is set by a vocal minority. It doesn't necessarily mean that no other team compositions or strategies can work. It just means that it's the common opinion "take" on how things "should" work, and because of social media, these trends in thinking are amplified until everyone is just parroting whatever some random set of "pro players" have said. Which is hilarious, because, even now, you get wildly conflicting takes on just about every hero from these same set of "pro players". In other words: they don't really f*ckin' know. "Meta" and role locking is for people who don't want to have to actually think. They want an easy-to-follow structure that they can use to approach the game. This is why these things often take root. There are far too many people who want complex games like these to be simplified in some fashion. "Meta" is just short-hand strategy for the strategy-challenged. Role locking goes hand-in-hand with this mindset. People want to be TOLD what their team composition should be, because it's too difficult for them to think "outside of the box". This is the problem with Overwatch refugees. They haven't actually had to think about anything for a very, very long time. And they're not having a good time in Rivals because they can't wrap their smooth brains around all of the new heroes, strategies, team comps, etc. The commentary on the Korean players being more inventive than the straight-laced, "by the book", no imagination Americans is spot on. This, I would argue, is the root cause of this "we need role lock" nonsense.
Mete means most effective.... it doesnt, and has never meant that no other strategy will work. People are winning hundreds of thousands of dollars playing in team based shooters. The meta isnt chosen by some randos on twitter. Also the idea that using the best strategy to win a team based strategy game,is lazy, is just laughable. Add role queue to comp and leave quick match alone. Its the only solution that makes sense
@@jmukes97 No it's not the only solution. Go back to overwatch and cry about that game. Rivals doesn't need to be ruined by the same people that destroyed overwatch.
i would hate a full role queue, but i'd like to see a potential matchmaking system that puts players who tend to play differing roles together. Doesn't lock anyone into any role, but helps make sure you have a team comp capable of playing each role at the level your elo is at if you choose to.
I think that one of the bigger reasons that open queue is fine in this game is that the designs are so simple. If having multiple tanks in Overwatch is multiplicative, then multiple tanks in Rivals is just additive, which doesnt create as big of a gap when you arent on the perfect comp.
My greatest hope is that the devs have a solid sense of what they want this game to be and stick to that. Player gripes, even from pros, lead to suggestions that tend not to be very thought out.
Bro I just want to play DPS or at least Healer, not being forced to play Tank just because no one else picks it in my team. If Role Queue would make the game worse, fine... let the game be worse, so I can have more fun, that's it, I don't care about the meta, the balance, the esport, if the game is considered good or bad, I just don't like that I need to suffer and pick something I don't want to pick because other players are selfish and insta lock dps and don't change the pick even if they have bad stats, those people should be punished and their fun of the game should be reduced, not mine - the player who wants to help the team even for the cost of his own enjoyment of the game.
amen. this game isn't even competitive (and obviously not making money off the competitive scene). their money is only in this game being fun and hoping more people choose to buy skins out of gratitude.
@@HalRocThen people who doesn’t want to play tank like me just don’t? They should just go queueing and playing with others that want to play Tank. Role queue make everyone happy. They don’t have to play tank, I don’t have to play tank. We don’t need to be playing in the same match.
Overwatch players complaining about overwatch being bad while also advocating marvel rivals should replicate the same problems overwatch has. If this isn't proof it was thr players and "pros" that killed thr game I don't know what is.
Role queue was a mistake for Overwatch and it would be a mistake in Marvel Rivals as well. There is a much simpler solution and it would be to take the MOBA approach like in Heroes of the Storm where you have free queue based on MMR and then you have icons that tell the team which two roles you would like to play. If you are a tank main you just pick an icon for that and then your secondary role if you have one of those. This improves communication where you and your team are able to compromise on some roles without ruining queue times and it also avoids the overly strict 2-2-2 roles that ruined Overwatch by vastly reducing the ability for flexible team comps. Overwatch when it launched was a significantly better game than it developed into. Listening to pros and ruining the casual core aspects that made Overwatch so fun to people really killed the game. I wouldn't want to see any Overwatch player feedback be taken into account as long as it makes it more like Overwatch 2.
I fully agree with the "less restrictions, more team-ups" for the future of the game, but not to solve the frustrations of nonsensical comps. I'd argue it would worsen the personal frustration of the player knowing their hero could be better, but they need to beg someone to swap NOT ONLY to a role, but to a specific hero, just so you can have fun on your hero. I, for example, love playing Ironman, despite him being arguably bad. I can only live up to the expectation of a reliable DPS with a Hulk in my team and this is annoying because people don't want to go tank, and when they do it's never the bad one I need. Now imagine I WANT to play a tank, but I know my life is gonna be miserable UNLESS I have a highly specific pair-up? My point being pair-ups add flavor to the game, but kinda set the fun (for me, specifically) back exactly because it straight up removes your solo agency in the game. This comes from a long time Overwatch enjoyer and recent Marvel Rivals enjoyer that only wants to play its game and enjoy some time playing (sometimes) with my friends.
Ranked mode doesn’t suck. Quick play WILL soon be 6 dps. It’s just the honeymoon phase where people will play kindly. Rank is literally the mode where people will play supports and tanks. QUICKPLAY you won’t soon.
@ZarelidT you must be new to games like this. Because people will still not want to tank after honey moon phase. If that were the case dps times in ow 1 wouldn't have 5-40 mins
Even in quick play, i believe people will get tired of losing. When that happens they will try to win. Whether that means picking a tank or getting so good at dps that they overcome.
People are so focused in finding a way of focring people to play tank, but if people don't want to they just don't want to. They should balance the game in a way of having teams without tanks work even if it isn't optimal.
What we’ve learned is that people don’t know what they want. At the end of the day Rivals is fun because the q times are fast, if you loose a game badly it doesn’t matter cuz your already in a new one in OW you have to sit there in q thinking about it. Role Q any time in the next year will kill this game
At the same time no role que is going to kill the game as well because the flex players are just going to give up eventually and stop flexing. Espically in comp. Which death is better one that makes it so Noone enjoys the game or the one that makes you have to wait a little longer to que?
The Q times. The average player doesn’t want to wait to play the game. That’s why quick play is the popular game mode across the board, your average player isn’t doesn’t wanna try as hard as us comp players
The issue with adding a second mode the way OW did is that player psychology will mean the most players will play what is presented as the main mode of play. OW2 presents role queue as the main game, so even if players would have fun in open queue they're more likely to tough it out in role queue.
@Spannondorf keep presenting the game as an open q main mode but at least give the option for those who want to play role q. I still dont see a reason not to have both modes
@@umbralflow6883 no, when role queue was added they said "the game is designed around role queue now" and pushed people to play that mode. The UI combined with the developers saying "this is how you play the game now" doomed open queue to be seen as casual by the majority of players. Most content creators exclusively playing ranked role queue didn't help the public perception either, so it was really a war on all fronts telling the player base that Role Queue is the "true" Overwatch experience.
@@jefersonluiz3356 yeah the way OW should have done it was to have competitive have the role queue ruleset, then just separate that into ranked and unranked. Keep the main game the fun mode, but provide the more restrictive mode for players who want to be extra sweaty.
If role lock gets added to marvel rivals the next major things I'll be expecting are 1) nothing of notice happening for the next 2 years 2) they announce a sequel, promising a repayable pve campaign 3) announcing that they are canceling pve and are thinking about bringing back an open queue format.
One thing that I'd like in Rivals is some sort of icon to let you know your team comp is out-of-whack - at least in the short term. Coming off role queue in OW, I don't even think to check on whether my team is sabotaging us by having my two supports both swap to DPS while I'm solo tanking, for example. Most of the time, my OW brain doesn't even consider that possibility and I run back to point to try to salvage a fight with my feeding teammates that went in 3-v-6 and continue the unwinnable fight for a couple of minutes before I realize how terrible our team comp has gotten. Some sort of exclamation point on the tab screen or something would help bring my attention to the issue quicker until I get used to the game. It could even be an option tool tip while you respawn.
@@ne-cepenno I think they mean some sort of alert a change has happened. Sometimes the strategist will just switch to dps midmatch and screw everything up.
@@ne-cepen You only see that alert if you are changing heroes. There's no notification at all when your teammates swap characters, let alone roles, during a round. If you go more than one fight without properly regrouping to see your whole team, you can lose before you even notice the problem.
I dont agree with your overwatch often, but i do agree with his point that the awfulness of OW was because blizzard was only listening to the pros and super competitive players to the point where now ow is just a sweat fest. However, also being a strategist main in Marvel rivals having to play matches with 5 dps is awful, I don't think role queue needs to be a thing just yet, but I definitely would like to see like minium role requirement and a maximum role requirment.
I think I could compromise to min 1 tank, however not 'role queue' as it will extend mm time. This isn't ideal either obviously, however Queue Times being low is more important to me than someone drawing the short straw in some matches. Personally, I love to flex anyway, so I suppose that biases me to be fine with this type of format ,but I also think it will be better for the game if more players learn to do so as well.
I don't think there should be role queue. I think the best thing to do, would be open queue, but only allow there to be a max of 2 supports on each team. Playing against 3 supports is mind numbing, nothing dies and their ults are far too strong for there to be 3 of them. This still allows for a lot of team comp freedom/expression, but not allowing there to be too much sustain.
Imo what ruined overwatch is it becoming extremely competitive and sweaty even in quick play turning off new players from even trying it they need to stick to just keeping the game fun and not make changes to appease competitive players
It's simple. Everyone wants to play DPS behind a good tank, but no one wants to play tank. You can discuss role queue vs open queue, or 5v5 vs 6v6 forever, but you won't find an intellectual solution that solves the fact that everyone just want to be the DPS.
It's not just that: playing a tank, or a healer, requires dedication, know-how, and responsability, something that not a lot of players want in these kind of games. People who play dps have zero care for the game, because they're squishies with high damage and barely anything, and if they die then someone else will take their spot for the moment. But as a tank/healer? Nuh-uh, you die you doom your own team, and your team will blame you, and you'll get frustrated, and you stop playing the tank/healer and go dps because "screw it". This isn't just in this game though, this is literally in every game with a trinity system, or with some kind of healer or tank class. Heck even in TF2 I hardly saw people playing medic or heavy, but those games didn't have a limit of 6 players, so it didn't matter. Maybe the game shouldn't have been restricted to 6v6 and maybe have like 9v9 or something like that. Then those kind of roles wouldn't matter.
He tweeted about "0 Tanks" or " 1 tank 5 DPS" comps. His 1/1/1 would indeed fix this. You should listen more carefully and let him finish thoughts before you make commentary that turns out unnecessary after listen to his next sentence. Maybe script this. Because you can argue well have lots of experience to base your opinion on. Still thanks for the interesting perspective.
People mass abandoned Overwatch over how shit it became precisely because of role queues. And now they want to turn this game into OW. Oh, for fuck’s sake.
Overwatch didn’t become shit because of role lock it was just at a crossroads and the people that left and are now on Marvel rivals are going to make it disproportionately look like everyone who played overwatch hates role queue because they’re disproportionately likely to dislike role queue since they’re playing a different game. I’ll always stand by that the game needs SOME kind of role-balancing system be it role queue or a max 3 min 1 system because the game just does not function when one team has a functional comp and the other doesn’t. Two teams with all dps can be a kinda fun chaotic shitstorm but when it was only one of the teams it was a guaranteed curb stomp that wasn’t fun to be on either side of. And that’s coming from someone who literally does not have a rank attached to my account cause I’m not looking for some hardcore experience- it just wasn’t enjoyable
@azure5644 it's list of reasons for anyone. When can be a factor of which is more prevalent. But Game Balance is just unequivocally the most frustrating thing about the game if you ask anyone regardless of someone's feelings. So I have no idea why you're saying a narrative is being framed 🤣
It was not because of role lock OW failed it need a ban system. Like role lock was a major failure I agree but if they had just add a ban system in ranked it would have fix 90% of the problems OW had. Like it would be so much easier for the Dev's to find the broken heros and fix the game with a ban system. Also will make it so 1 tricks can't only 1 trick in higher lvls and I could go on.
One problem I don't hear get addressed is that role lock means that heroes have to stay in their lane. When you're making a hero from existing characters, sometimes their abilities don't slot nicely into one role. Then, if a dps has some support abilities, and another dps has some tanky abilities, you run GOATS even with 2-2-2.
I hate pro players, man. They only want the game to lean towards their wants instead of the general player base. I hope the Marvel Rivals devs keep the game fun instead of competitive.
This opinion doesn't make sense. The goal of the game is to win, and it isn't possible to do that if everyone is instalocking DPS. if a casual player just wants to play their favourite character, which happens to be a DPS, then they just lose the game over and over again if they do not flex pick to something they don't want to play. A game where it's one team vs another is competitive by nature and nothing changes that.
@@Pixelhopp well if winning matters that much to them then they need to pick up healer or tank instead of blaming their team mates, you might say that someone shouldnt have to do that but that someone also doesnt have to play the game or be so preoccupied with just winning. This is a community issue, people need to be more willing to play more roles instead of only playing a single character for several thousand hours if they only have fun winning.
@@skrrrtsusman3450 In an ideal world that would be fine, but there are too many games to learn from and people will always be selfish in these kind of games. If casuals end up losing because of bad team comps or are forced to play characters they don't want to play to have a half decent game, they will just go play a game that doesn't have any of those issues.
Freedo is right about the koreans and theorycrafting. I exclusively play open queue in ow2 and can tell that comps that don't seemingly work together actually do but require more teamwork. For example, had a game of comp 2 tanks 2 supps and we got rolled by some asians on 3 dps.
role queue is meant to help the bottom percent of players btw, the top percent arent having problems with people not wanting to flex onto roles the team needs
3:00 itd be especially messy cuz as of right now we have confirmation that there will be 4 seasons a year and they went out of there way to say there will be "new heroes and maps each season." then went on to specify that it wasnt any type of mistake and they did intentionally say plural meaning most seasons are likely going to have more than one hero and possibly even more than one map each season. not to mention they plan on adding, removing, and changing team ups every season.
I think the problem is "supports" being healers. It ruins the game. Nobody can play without them, but nobody wants to play as them. Just make no characters heal, let people have to play as either tanks or dps and get their own heals from the map. I dont want Marvel Rivals to become an ultra boring, slow ass 5v5 game with role queue, mega supports that dont die and no playmaking potential characters. I love how wacky and fun Marvel Rivals is, it almost reminds me of when Overwatch was a good game and not the mess it was made to be by people crying constantly for shit. Also why don't these guys just go play Overwatch 2? Because Overwatch 2 is boring and has been since release, Overwatch 1 and even the classic mode was far more memey, fun and exciting than whatever mess Overwatch 2 became.
So far I feel that in rivals you realy only need one tank if your dps are good, but you absolutely NEED 2 support if the other team isn’t trash. It’s dam near impossible to keep 5 team mates up with one support.
"If your dps are good" that's the important phrase there. In solo que comp there's no way yo gurenttee this and from what iv seen there's usually only 1 soild dps per team in ranked. Granted I'm only in silver atm but almost all my games with 3 dps or more have one with 25-30 kills, one with 10-15 the other 1 or 2 dps are still in single digits but still refuse to swap to help the team
Role lock made more sense in OW because the roles were defined pretty hard. There are a lot of mixed role characters in Rivals that make role queue a bit obselete. Tanky duelists, damage heavy strategists, etc. Role lock can create a lot more stiffness in a mixed roster like thi
If the lack of vanguard play continues I can see a bit of a small reward incentive for queueing like OW does for all-role or support. I think that should suffice. Maybe a separate role queue game mode?
P.S I’m utterly against your anti-high level mentality when considering balance ideas because although you’re correct that they represent a small percentage of the player base, they’re also what the large majority of players are trying to get to skill-wise. So in a perfect world everyone’s trying to improve I don’t think it’s healthy to balance based on casual players when the innate goal is to improve and become not casual. At least for the majority imo.
It’s legit a self answering problem, you don’t want role queue because why? You want to instalock dps and you don’t want to wait for it They need to make tanks feel enjoyable to play, but you mfers also need to step up and take your turn I am a support main purely because in ow if I didn’t, no one died You guys actually created role queue by being selfish
Just know theres a reason overwatch added it. People dont listen and do their own thing and throw the game regardless. If you want your game to have any competitive integrity or integrity in general (who would want to que for a game and 90% of the time u just have 5 dps even in quickplay). These games need role lock plain and simply. If even blizzard the most stubborn dev adds it, its for a real needed reason. Thats the only thing ill give blizzard credit for.
I like marvel rivals, but it feels like McDonalds when overwatch is like going out for a meal. Rivals is fun but it is what it is a more casual, pick up and play overwatch.
Within the first week of MR and coming as a support player from OW2, I wanted role queue. But after playing more, I see why open queue is more fun. I got to try out vanguard and guess what, I had fun! I don’t really get a chance to play Duelist, but being flexible gives me a chance to try out different play styles that I wouldn’t have tried in the first place. MR heroes are fun to play in all roles, I think that’s why open queue works.
I feel like it should be role lock in competitive, and none in casual, it seems the big argument for no role lock is from a non competitive standpoint so give the competitive players something to help competitive balance and the casual players something to encourage fun and diversity
The issue im having with rivals personally is that even though i enjoy playing all the roles sometimes, when i get an urge to hop on hawkeye and click some heads, i cant do that because my solo-que tean already instalocked 3 dps. The fundamental way that the hero select screen literally just tells you in a million ways to f off if you want to god forbid play one game on dps instead of flexing feels terrible. It feels like im being downright denied my chance to play the game sometimes, because instead of getting to play dps in my silver lobby i have to play support and hope and pray that my dps get picks.
KarQ's video is on a separate Marvel Rivals channel: th-cam.com/video/NDbXeXBLdJQ/w-d-xo.html&ab_channel=KarQMarvelRivals
I gotta hard disagree with your opinion that the characters in marvel rivals are generic compared to overwatch.
To be fair, I understand why you have that opinion, but I would personally counter that by saying characters have sub archetypes within their respective roles that are intentionally designed to feel similar so as to incentivize players to swap and try other characters depending on a given scenario.
For example, Mantis and Luna snow have extremely similar kits however Mantis helps with giving a damage bonus whereas Luna snow is able to heal any given target regardless of where they are via her statue ability.
I believe the intention for the character design being this way is both to allow players to feel more comfortable swapping depending on what the team needs as well as swapping to generate team synergies.
If you have an Adam warlock, maybe you choose Mantis over Luna snow or vice versa maybe you have a Jeff and that incentivizes you to pick Luna.
It's especially apparent with the damage role as spider man, Black panther, psylocke, magik, and to a lesser extent wolverine are all basically the same in so far as what they want to do and how they want to do it, but their approach is what separates them along with team synergies.
Your team got a venom, well he gives spiderman access to a one shot combo thanks to the synergy as well as give venom an extra 150 HP which specifically for venom is huge as his healing is increased based on missing health so if he has more breathing room to get low to pop his ability he can get a lot more out of his kit than he otherwise could.
I feel like one of the problems with overwatch was in fact how diverse the characters were in so far as your skills with one particular character did NOT translate well between others especially for healers which I'd argue is the role that requires the most swapping for a given scenario at least back in the 6v6 days as healers also carried utility to counter certain DPS or buff yours.
People complain about overwatch but at the same time, they want Marvel Rivals to become overwatch
Its the same people who cried about Overwatch in the first place: "wah wah make supports more survivable! wah wah make role queue! wah wah too many dps players!" and they are literally saying the same about marvel rivals and trying to get the game to become shit like OW2.
Honestly I prefer overwatch so much more, but it's the thing to hate ow sooo
Controversial take it doesn’t need role lock. The biggest incentive to play roles is actually the team up abilities, think about that the team up ability’s are so strong that you don’t need to role lock. Then if you did role lock it would devolve into team up abilities vs other team up abilities. Like “oh we have hela loki they have groot shark we win.” Or “we have star lord, mantis Adam warlock we never die and we win.”
Well said I don’t want that .
This infuriates me so much because of how true it is.
I just think the “real” player base needs to be established first. They should not change the game based on people who might just be passing through.
truest facts, I wouldn't be surprised if this is a lot of people's first hero shooter type game.
Best comment speaking facts
This cause it sounds like ow players are jumping on this game wanting it to play like ow
I hope the devs think like you lol, I think they said in a recent post they have no interest in role lock and it’s probably due to team ups
Although I want it to be like that. I wonder what the play will be from the devs. Will they cater to the high level players who stream and might bring more people into the game or will they not let the temptation of catering them to keep more people in the game.
I will say this again. Keep the game fun not competitive. The game’s identity should not be swayed by the voices of “pro players”
THIS! YES PLEASE!
Agreed but they do have a ranked mode if u want to play that so role queue should be a thing only there
I don’t have fun playing tank. I have fun when I can play dps. Role queue help me getting to play my dps with the people who are ready to play tank and support with me. There you are.
I like taking a game seriously from time to time and "sweating" but if the players kill off the fun then what's thr point in me playing for ANY reason. Prioritize fun, don't listen to "pros".
...yall act like both modes can't co exist. I don't want people who simply want to have fun in my ranked match. Take yall ass to quick play.
The game needs time to evolve NATURALLY before they start making large-scale changes. Let the players figure things out FIRST, then address the standout problems
And don't listen to the gripes of the 1%ers their gameplay is nothing like the rest of us. Overwatch made this mistake and now everyone hates it.
Please dont let Overwatch players change what Rivals is, go play Overwatch if you want that type of stuff. Lord, let the game live & breathe for at least 6 months-1 year.
Yes. I’m an OW fan and my comment was they should let the “real” player base develop before any major changes instead of listening to people who may just go back to their main game a month from now
Real. I wear to god im not lying i actually quit overwatch the exact day they added role que. Overwatch is one of if not the only AAA hero shooter that has role que and it died because of it@Falloutx360a
So why this fake chinese garbage COPIED so many BIG mechanics from OW ?! TELL ME NOW !
And dont pretend that you dont see it 😂
@@phatminhphan4121 i've played OW since launch and you clearly haven't played much of Rivals, or you would immediately see how different the game is. Also it being similar or not has no bearing on the comment you're replying to; it's just a bad faith line of "questioning"
@@phatminhphan4121 Why did Overwatch copy so many BIG mechanics from TF2?
Balance a game based on the 1%, and you will see how fast it dies.
Balance the game for players that will leave the game after a month or so.
This works for everything, society is not build for minority but the majority, business, schools and games is not an exception.
No thanks. I'm playing marvel because it doesn't have some of thr same issues playing overwatch. It hasn't beaten EVERY PROBLEM but at lest it doesn't have ALL of them.
Yea it’s main problem right now is every match in ranked having 4-5 people refusing to switch off dps and 2 or 3 of them going like 0/9 but blaming everyone else. Role que would be a huge blessing for people like myself who flex pick or support main.
@@mechs4life Trash dps players will still be trash if they switch
@@BrokieTheJokie I understand but having set mmr for each role like in overwatch fixes that. Now they can be highly specific trash however they like
It’s wild how these team shooter games attract NON team working players. I’m definitely a DPS player but I’ll play tank or support for the team. Since theirs so many new hero’s to play as. Which everyone should be trying
It’s really strange. Like why are they here? That’s not the purpose of the game. It’s like, doing something stupid on purpose?
@@insomniaddictesp no literally
No literally, I love strategist but if we have 2 strategists and no vanguard, I’ll do my best on vanguard, idk why so many people refuse to be the change, ppl wanna complain abt 6 dps, well why don’t they switch first?
@@SamWhite-pg7bj Exactly
You even have something in each role that feels like a dps too like Venom or Cloak and Dagger and Rocket
In the beginning I thought I wanted role lock in Rivals but recently I’ve been having doubts. Last night we lost to a game composed of 0-3-3. And we were running 2-2-2. We were solid with comms but lost coz the enemies were so creative with their comps. I think it’s important we keep the creativity of the players which leads to more fun instead of trying to pigeonhole the game into a rigid identity.
this. ive won solo healing as mantis with a 1-4-1 comp, against 2-2-2. we just played around our limitations well and it was honestly really fun. side note, mantis might be kind of busted so maybe that’s what made it possible, but still
Imo this is less creativity and more that your team sucks. Enemy team got lucky instalocking their favorite heroes and winning vs bad players is what mainly happened here. At least that’s what I would take away from that game if I were on that team that won cuz more times than not those type of comps aren’t meta and are played on accident in solo queue. Btw I’m team open queue ATM but I feel this example is weak
just goes to show you that they should buff the tanks
@ here again with the meta comment. You just regurgitate every TH-camr says in your echo chambers. You don’t know everything, neither these TH-camrs. Get off your high horse and stop being narrow minded.
@@mrsisig7443 I’m just stating my own opinion, just cuz a random TH-camr you watched agreed with me doesn’t mean I’m on some kinda high horse. Just cause someone disagrees with you they’re narrow minded all of a sudden 😂 you just mad cuz I called you bad
I'm with Freedo, Team-ups is the way to go. If you get a team of 6 dps maybe let some heroes heal out of combat, heal off kill, life steal, gain more from health packs, etc. If you're down to 1 tank and 1 support, give extra hp to the tank and extra healing to the support when healing that tank, increase the tank's CDs, make the support move faster, etc. It can be hero based, but those are just a couple ideas. There are ways to fill in that void. OW didn't have those extra systems and layers that they've been experimenting with recently (probably because they saw games like Deadlock and Rivals incoming). Role lock was perfect for OW because they didn't seem interested in adding all those layers of complexity and tried to allow those natural hero synergies to drive the game.
Sounds like Kingmaker
increase the tank's cooldowns? i assume you mean decrease because why on earth would you nerf the solo tank lol
Honestly with how dagger works. Her doing combos with iron fist to make him immune or making tanks just walk up to punisher. Team ups are fantastic
No bro you will kill it
Exactly. role que is only going to make tream up mechanic obsolete in the long run
Where's YourMarvelRivals??
Please dont add role lock let it be like this
A terrible rank mode ?
@@future-snac4746a fun game? Yes
@@future-snac4746 no a fun game, what overwatch wasnt
@@itreallybelikethatdoe829false. Cuz overwatch was fun till they added brig and role q
@@itreallybelikethatdoe829 6 dps is fun? Being forced to play heroes you dont like to win is fun?
But KarQ is WRONG about "oh they had 2 tanks and we didn't so.."
but there is already existing core characters designed to actually break apart 2 tank compositions, they are so lost in mix-maxing that they don't see how you can break apart these comps
yeah, i mean the biggest problems i have faced aren't compositions like tank team vs no tank teams, it's the speed blitz characters like ironfist and the Arrrge imposters one shotting constantly, but that's also considering that the game is literally not even been out for two weeks, so any of these criticisms we may have are not based off of a good set of "data" as most people are still learning rather than being Hyper Competitive.
@skrrrtsusman3450 two tanks with shields invalidates hawkeye and dive tank duos make ironfist their prison bitch. 😂
Two tanks solve both those issues. 😂
He is already talking about tournaments. 99% players don’t give a sht about the pro scene.
@@rsmith8113 If he is talking about tournaments then you are literally required to sign up with a team and you will most likely wanna go with people you know who will play the role for you.
I've been beating two tanks as the solo tank nearly every March as hulk or venom or Captain America. As long as our team keeps their healers down they won't beat a good tank with two mediocre ones 😂
I do not want role queue, i dont want marvel rivals to take after overwatch, i want a fun arcade shooter with my favorite superheroes.
And before you accuse me of being an instalock DPS, i main tank in overwatch and play strange and hulk in rivals. I dont give a crap if im playing with 4 dps, guess what, ITS A GAME, LET PEOPLE HAVE FUN
cant have fun when you alone as hulk with 4 other dps :) and other team is insta healing any dmg u do. If you want to play an arcade game go to the arcade XD I personally dont have fun if i'm just taking L's all season. you play tanks in rivals, cool. But you aint everyone and there are twice as many dps than other roles. Do the math. teams will be unbalanced either way. quickplay is there for a reason. Comp should be like it is. Competitive
@DanielFruckinFlower so your argument is "I don't have fun the way you do, so you're wrong"? Literally trying to argue with my subjective experience tanking in rivals I have fun regardless. The fact that there's more of any one role doesn't automatically = "role lock is necessary" and as far as I know there's hero pick/bans in the tournament mode, why don't you go play that if you're so interested in a competitive experience?
@@thesurgeon0462 nope, my argument is that unless roles are emphasised, the game will have not be fun.
7:28 THANK YOU!!! as an average to slightly above average ranked player from OW I really don't want Rivals to follow that same sweaty foot step lol. We have plenty of sweaty games already, let Rivals be a more fun and wacky game
So because someone was having a bad time, we need tole que? Seems like his team need to learn to adapt
If you want Marvel Rivals to be more like Overwatch, go play Overwatch. Thank you 😌
Nah fr. If they make rivals like overwatch I'm just gonna stop playing because it just won't be worth it.
Makes sense to me, I stopped playing Rivals after about the fourth day due to the rampant toxicity and lack of any real semblance of people trying to make team compositions that work.
People in Rivals acting really pious about this but they need to remember, the people with experience In this type of game are overwatch players. We’ve seen and played a lot. I’m sorry that having 5 people pure dps queuing isn’t fun for people like me who play support or flex. I get you all want the game to be pure unrestricted fun, but they already made ranked a thing. Competitive scenes bring money and 4-5 idiots refusing to swap from dps does not make games fun for the rest of us.
@mechs4life I’m coming from high Masters in OW, and there isn’t anything more boring than 1 Giga tank that won’t die no matter what, and 2 supports that can deny damage at any time with just one press of a button. This game will make plenty of money without caving to a strict set of restrictions because every 10 games you get 5 dps. That’s a trade off I’ll gladly take instead of the stale, repetitive, boring experience OW competitive is now. You really enjoy picking a hero and immediately having to counter pick because your opponent swaps? You really enjoy finally getting the itch to queue dps and waiting 15 min just to get a bad tank and lose in 5 min? If you do, like I said, please go play Overwatch, we don’t want you here. Go sweat in your locked format on the boring game please. Thanks
@@mechs4life if they are expecting to make this an esports type title and go for money this will flop so hard. The main thing this game needs to focus on is fun. Especially in it's Inception. The point should be to play as your favorite marvel characters and fight against other characters. That in and of itself is chaotic and that's what needs to be loved. If chaos isn't your thing go somewhere else.
Hate to make this a long thing but this basically happened with destiny. The game was super fun pvp in a groove. Knew what kept players coming back. Then in d2 they try to go the competive route. Slow the game down. Reduce cool downs. Make it more gun play less abilities. You know what happened? Took them 2 years but they literally reversed every single change they made in d2 pvp back to d1 pvp because people DID NOT WANT A COMPETITIVE GAME. it was fun because it was chaotic. Not everything needs to be sweaty esports.
"my team of pro players CHOSE to play with one tank (hulk of all tanks...) and because we CHOSE a bad team comp compared to another team of pros we lost and that means the game should change to what i want." okay buddy
Exactly
Yea it was a dumb point to make. Yall are grand masters in OW………so no one wanted to switch to two tanks and lost. Whos fault is that lol
funny you don't see a problem with this. You can insinuate it was a dumb statement to make, but in that same statement it very obviously paints a picture to a broader issue this game will have due to allowing morons to pick whatever they want.
@@WutTheDeuceGaming those "morons" are gonna pick whatever they want anyway and you're gonna complain because it's not the meta in their role, it's never enough, just let people enjoy what they play and if you're that serious about winning than you'll learn to adapt and fill, balance is subjective afterall and even competitive is just dictated by the rules and we all play by the same rules but what matters is fun and the more you restrict players through role locks, systems in the game and even other heros designed to specifically beat other heros or stuff in the game the more you make it less fun Hense why ow sucks so much now, the vc sucks because they restricted people, the match maker sucks because role lock makes queues take forever and they also have strong loswr queue systems that pair losers with teams more likley to win leading to more homogenized win rates because we gotta get the numbers perfect to equal fun. The balance patches suck because half the heros are designed to restrict other heros like sombra being designed to counter doom or moira to genji or bap and kiri to literal ults, and basically just easy strong denial buttons, it all restricts players and makes the game less fun so just git gud and learn how to play with others 😂
@@shawngorski9714that’s why I suggest role que but not lock and not really role q but hero q. You search for the first of your picks and then the 2. and then the third. That way you also play what you want. Also there could be a search for the whole role.
The highest level of the game is already going to select correct rolls, I don’t want it to be forced on us. Even though it may be frustrating, the game just needs to focus on being fun & letting people pick they’re favorite marvel characters. If you’re that frustrated about team composition in bronze then be the one to do what is necessary. & this game isn’t overwatch, if you want it to be overwatch go play overwatch.
To be fair....we wouldnt need role que if people actually payed attention to what roles are needed. You know how many times ive been forced to tank when Im support. Then our support turns out to be ass. Its frustrating as fk. Its like playing with morons who belong in quick play
This is what everyone seems to be ignoring. Like I’m literally playing comp matches where I have 5 instalock dps and me as the one support yet I’m doing better than my dps and out healing the other supports.People need to recognize when a switch is needed especially in COMPETITIVE.
I’ve been asking for a role preference indicator. Some people are good at all roles and some are only good at one. But would be nice to know who is filling a role because they like the role and who is filling because they feel they need to.
The amount of times i've had to swap off tank TO support is actually annoying. Everyone wants to dps, but most of them can't aim for shit.
Mean while im ace as Tank & Support. Shout out Rocket Raccoon.
So many ppl don't know about the F2 button at hero selection that tells you all the heroes needed for team ups.
I think my biggest issue is decision making with who needs to be dealt with on the enemy team. For example, they’d have a storm and iron man, but my dps won’t try to hit them. Many times in the middle of playing vanguard or strat, I’d go widow to knock them out and quickly switch back just so we can push
OW Classic was a breath of fresh air, and while it’s undeniable how far the game has come mechanically, I’m loving the whimsy of Rivals and I agree that we should keep the philosophy of both games different. Honestly that is healthier for both games.
My main issue with role queue not discussed here is it actually made the game a lot less fun as a flex player who likes playing characters from all roles, but not necessarily many characters in any one given role.
I enjoyed getting into a match, not sure which role I'm about to play, and picking a character based on my teammates picks, what roles are missing, the potential synergies, the map, to counter pick, what I felt like picking at the time, etc.
A lot of times in my competitive matches in OW1, I'd switch between roles throughout the match. Let's say I start with a dps that struggles into their Genji, I'd switch into Winston as he was my comfort pick amongst characters good into Genji. My two tank teammates would notice and one might switch to dps to even things out, or we'd just keep playing as 3 tanks, both of which were ok.
In other cases, in the first round I'd play healer and be upset at the performance of our dps, so I'd switch into dps and have one of our dps switch to healer, sometimes they would, sometimes not, but in any case having that flexibility is significant, especially in games with small rosters to being with, and an even smaller roster of characters 'competitively viable' that are also characters I as a player might be comfortable/enjoy playing. A game built around the idea of switching characters around throughout the match in order to counterpick.
This also made the different matches feel more different from one another, as my experience playing Ana in one match and Junkrat in another, was very different from the experience of a support player always playing one from a handful of supports which all fulfill a very similar function.
Maybe I'm in the minority but I'd imagine many players don't just main 1 role and enjoy most or all characters in that role with hardly none in the other roles, but actually have different characters they enjoy in different roles and they wouldn't want to be pre-locked into the few characters they enjoy in the 1 specific role they queued into before the match starts, without being able to switch between roles according to what the situation demands.
with that way of thinking just play the open question version over role que. if you load into a match and dont want to play the characters YOU PICKED, then that’s on you
Are you me? Flex mains brethren!
The downfall of OW was upper management decisions and lack of dev support. If Rivals can avoid that they’re good
This is slowly becoming a Marvel Rivals channel
Works for me
"Your Rivals" rename when?
Good
Not a bad thing tbh
and thats a good thing!
It not that players want Rivals to be Overwatch. Its that tank and heal player are sick of players instalocking dps. They are now force to flex for them or lose. Some say just lose and have fun. Thats not fun for some people. They dont want to replace quickplay with role que. They just want role que to be added so they dont have to deal with those players. Which is fair, you dont have to wait the que times as your guys will still have quickplay. Its a Win Win. If somehow most of the players go to role que then that just mean its the better system. If not then QP Wins. Its not that hard to think about. Also most of the people that want QP for the diversity just lock in dps anyway, they dont care for diversity outside of you forming a team around them.
100%
Agree with this. It's not catering to sweats and competitive players by introducing role queue. It's not fun trying to sus out other people who just instalock 4 dps. DPS can still DPS but healers and tanks don't have that extra added stress where no one wants to do either.
@@YoshiJoshi1994 yeah man i just wanna play the character i like, i don't want to be forced to play something i don't want to play just because no one else did either. I really cannot understand the reasoning behind how that is fun to anyone. Like yeah you can have the sweaty mindset of "well don't you want to win?" Fucking no, I want to have fun. What's the point if it's not fun? I essentially got forced to be a support main in Overwatch because of it being open queue and I am not interested in doing that again. The sweaty mindset of finding comps and all this shit is from the perspective of these youtubers that have nothing better to do lol.
I mean don't get me wrong I'll get sweaty as fuck on Psylocke (lol) but I simply don't want to get sweaty on Magneto or fucking Mantis it's not fun ahutighritgeua
This, and well role que/ min 1 per role is the way but at least keep that for comp, QP can be as is. People not wanting this are copers or hard-lock dps players or stacked with a team hence oblivious to the solo queue tank/supp player troubles, no one else literally.
the game hasn't been out for a week and yall are talking about splitting the playerbase. everything you said doesn't address the player split. pretending that's not something to be concerned about is disingenuous.
The only thing I think I'd (begrudgingly) accept is 1 of each "role" required to play, and no specific role queue whatsoever because that will kill the game on the spot.
it really wouldn’t. if yall can’t ignore it and just play open que then that just shows how childish yall are about not getting your way
Why not just remove objectives and have a team death match at this point honestly.
The whole point of objective based games is that you need a balanced team to hold a front line, deal damage amd secure kills, and support the team with utility and healing. So role lock or not, whatever team comp that can do that the most efficiently is going to have a huge advantage.
If everyone in the community just wants to run DPS and fight each other, maybe we should lean into a mode that caters to that design rather than try to force teamwork into a community that isnt interested in doing that.
The witch hunt for anything remotely OW baffles me to no end. Role queue isn't perfect, but as you said, objective based games like this require those roles. Hell, those roles wouldn't exist if the devs thought they weren't needed. At least a role limit is needed.
Insta hating on the idea of role queue makes me think the majority of the playerbase just doesn't give a fuck about winning. The number of times I load in first, pick dps, then have everyone else also pick dps is insane. They just don't care and this forces people who do into ALWAYS adjusting for their shit teams. The players who don't get it are ones who've never had to be the ones adjusting.
The game is ALREADY copying OW, it doesn't make you any special to advocate 'grr OW bad, Rivals destroyed OW grr'. The two games can learn a lot about each other. Being this repulsed by one another is dumb as hell
An all DPS deathmatch mode, everyone who is DPS focused have a place to really grind their skills, and they wont have a tank or heals to blame.
@@oscarm4095 i dunno i had a team of dps and one healer and we smashed through a "balanced" comp after we picked a tank and healer. It's not required, it's just is you play well with your team and/or communicate well like pinging a flank and the backliner making sure that if they engage they do so at half health or the blitz characters coordinating to break through a tank before the healer can save them
@@skrrrtsusman3450 I've also had games like that. It's the exception, not the norm. Not every random group gets lucky synergy and play against an enemy you can stomp, ideal comp or no.
@@skrrrtsusman3450I played many many games where there's 5 DPS and one healer and this team is constantly terrible, so what? If you shot your foot and you're limping around, you cannot just ignore the problem by saying "just be better" when you could choose to be fully healthy and also do better at the same time which has better results than former
7:38 He says “do we want the highest level players to dictate how the game is?” But also says hero banning (higher levels only) is great in a game without role queue. Why do I care about hero banning being good for the game if the majority of players are too low rank to even ban any heroes?
The game just came out. Did we just recently forget overwatch classic that we played not too long ago and how broken unbalanced overwatch was?
The thing about tank and support are ... how come there's not that much options. Why the DPS has the most characters to choose? I flex, so tank and support is what I usually play and it's nice OW2 is add more supports and tank, but just like OW, DPS still has the most... I wonder what would happen it was reverse. I do like playing variety but people forcing me to flex sucks...
No one is forcing you to play anything, you are choosing to flex for your team which is admirable I fill too when I want but primarily I only play Spider-Man he reminds me of playing the PS4 game and I have more fun just playing Spider-Man than I've ever had winning. I recommend just playing whatever your favorite character is primarily and flexing sometimes if you feel like it will be a fun change of pace!
Bro, unless you’re queuing up with your mom, no one can make you play anything. Just turn off voice chat and play whatever you want.
@@Scrap_ Some people dont enjoy losing over and over again because of shit insta lock dps players.
Did u know overwatch used to have 4 roles. It was tabk attack defense and support. They got rid of defense role thats why theirs a lot of damage heroes in that game. Marvel rivals came out. Its not even a month yet and still season 0. Relax. If u dint like how u have to play tank or support in an unrated game then dont. No one is forcing you to. If your complaining about it cuz of ranked games. Then idk man just dont play ranked?
yeah that's what ive been saying, like its insane that in OWs tank and supports COMBINED didn't even match the DPS role, i wonder why so few people were picking them. I hope Rivals peioritizes tank and support release(especially tank rn)
as for now, team up are designed so that you dont have more than 2 of the same role to get full value.
@@jonathanalonso6492 I dont get how what you said apply to my comment...
Also an important thing for overwatch players to consider is you guys realize this game is a few days old for most people right? While dps is half the cast? People are just learning their first characters so most people aren't going to be able to flex yet and most people are likely going to pick up dps because again that makes up most of the characters.
I played OW since day 1 pretty consistently, eventually all my friends were pushed off the game by becoming more competitive and sweaty.
I think the moment they add role lock/queue is when the casuals will start dropping off, Rivals will likely fall into all the same “fixes” as OW like balancing which is a never ending cycle of metas that filter out everyone that is not hyper comp
I loved tanking in both OW1 and WoW. Parsed 90+ consistently in burning crusade and wrath classic. Loved Rein and Sigma. It's just, when OW went to 5V5, my buddy was just better than me, and I couldn't find a niche after that. This idea that no one enjoys tanking is just false. I'm sick of hearing it.
"no one" is obvious hyperbole because if it were literally true, there'd be zero matches being made. Yes, people enjoy tanking, there's just significantly less of them than Damage enjoyers. In Overwatch 1's case, it was 3 to 1. In Marvel Rivals, it sounds like it's 4 to 1 (or worse).
@@Shzl47 id argue 5 to 1.
In my friend group ow tank pkayers hate the rivals tanks. Rivals tanms just arent fun.
@@ubadman1 I was also thinking 5 to 1, but the game hasn't been out for very long. I just know it's worse than Overwatch, so I put "or worse" to cover my bases 😅
Obviously, organizing a solid team comp is good for wins, but... Not gonna lie, like 90% of the fun of this game is being able to play characters that I like. If I get forced into playing characters I don't like I'll just stop playing and the niche purists will get to have the game to themselves, while the game makes less money.
Mostly likely the same with the other play not wanting to switch. So its a lose lose. So basically a lot of people are in the mindset of its my way or the highway. Then again people who think like that tend to not stick to a game long term anyway.
That's why the qp category exists.
Quick play is for fun
Competitive is just that Competitive
I hate to be that guy and I don't want this game to become Overwatch, BUT structure is important. Without a form of structure you will have chaos and chaos breeds terrible matches. It's a team based game but all I'm hearing in individualized thoughts. What "I" want to do, who "I" want to play. Where is the what "we" need, what "we" need to do, what "we" need to play. Its a team based game if you don't want to work as a team then don't play period.
@ It's hard line to take to say, "If you don't play a certain way, then don't play the game." You're definitely "that guy." -- Regardless, there may be a misunderstanding here. I'm not suggesting that there's no value in picking characters to support your team, I'm suggesting that forcing it by removing team comp choices makes the game less appealing. And frankly, it's not less selfish to say, "We already have enough DPS characters, I have determined that you should play anchor or support because I prefer it that way."
What if I have a six-stack and we all want to anchor, or all want to DPS? We now can't do that because someone determined there's only one kind of acceptable team comp. That's uninteresting to me.
@ Different people might value different team comps for competitive purposes. Why lock them into only one or two options? How is that a superior experience?
Let’s be 100% here. Competitive players want some form of role lock. Casual players don’t. So why not just make the casual mode non role lock and the competitive mode role lock.
Give role lock in Masters and beyond. Below that it’s completely unnecessary
Because the devs have to pick one main mode to balance the game around.
@@rsmith8113 Master and Beyond doesn't need Role Lock at all. Masters and Beyond know how to build good comps.
Just give to ranked only, or make it low rank only, all the high rank players already default to 2 2 2 themselves. Low ranks have no idea whats the ideal team comp is and they just slam 5 dps insta lock in ranked. Its more needed in low ranks@@rsmith8113
I play comp and I don't want role lock. Let it be free.
Me seeing this and thinking "He's going to complain so much when koreans introduce the new goats meta..."
Honestly for competitive there should be a minimum one pick for each role. I dont want a role queue like overwatch and have to wait 5 minutes to get a match and would like for quick match to be open as it is. But for comp it is very frustrating when you're trying to win and pick an off role and meanwhile you'll have the rest of the team going dps and getting 0 elims
I very strongly feel the game should go down the casual path instead of competitive.
Yeah I don’t think this game needs role lock. I just think they need to add more tanks and supports to balance the roster . Part of what made original Overwatch fun, was that people use to just main characters, not roles. Like a person could be a dva, zen, mcree main. Do I think people should play other roles other than dualist? Absolutely. But we can’t really blame the community if the dps roster is 3x the size of the vanguard and strategist roles.
I think if they had even numbers on the other roles they’d be more enticing to play. I don’t know how much it’ll help tank, but for support? Support is generally popular as a role, and adding more will bring more people into it. Plus, so far I think 132 is actually pretty good
This guy is the definition of “ I will die on that hill”
20:08 his math is wrong. The answer is 28 team comps. Order doesn’t matter in this math problem so it’s a combination with replacement formula
I think it's 31 but yeah 729 is way off
@@youtubelul436 nope its 28. look up a combination with replacement calculator and use 3 objects with a sample of 6. The answer is 28.
I kinda remember why Overwatch feels so hard to play because of competitive where they say balance changes were not biased towards pro players because heroes like reaper where he's very strong in an unorganized competitive is close to 0 use rate in league.
Everyone just want to enjoy that occasional 5-6 kills in a single ult weather you're a tank or support. Back in the days when overwatch was out and still early in competitve, it was fun with nothing to lose about, game start to feel sour because you felt useless in your role when someone in the other role isn't making any progress.
The stages of Grief over the death of OW
Denial: "Its just Concord again, it'll be dead in two weeks"
Anger: "You're all shills!! Trolls! Bots!! OW Is the KING!!!"
Bargaining: "Well if we add role que, and better tanks, and its too team based lets have more skill expression like OW"
To counterpoint, I'd say there's more skill expression to be had in MR so far because of tanks not being invincible and no such thing as Baptiste and Brigitte.
@@sir_gort oh youre speaking the truth, OW fans are in denial that MR has the skill expression they are seeking.
@@Spyduhmahn Exactly. The game is made around the teamups rather than the roles themselves. Granted, Hela is far and away the best duelist atm.
The main issue with MR right now is that, as Flats put it, you have to pull off good combos with characters like Spider-Man and Iron Fist to get the same value as Hela plinking someone in the head twice.
Also, there should be a teamup with 3 duelists to embrace the higher amount of them. Afaik, 1 tank and 3 duelists may be the most reliable way to play due to how good duelists currently are.
@@sir_gortYeah you def can feel it in games that 1-3-2 comps are the way to go. Classic 2-2-2 works but it doesn't feel as fun or as flexible in a match especially when team ups can out way the need of a classic comp as 2-2-2.
@@TheElectricGhost With the teamups, if MR was restricted to 2-2-2, I think the only teams you will see competitively are (Thor + Hela), (Adam Warlock + Mantis), Dr. Strange, and either Star Lord or flex slot.
Basically, the Thor and Hela teamup would be one of if not the only teamups that would be present, especially since Hela is THE best duelist in the game.
DONT ADD RQ, however I hope they add more supports and add more team-up abilities for Supports and tanks specifically. Dont lock us in, just make it a more effective and fun choice to play as.
The support team ups are really good tho. If i see a luna on my team i lock in jeff or namor. Namor on defense to hold point. Jeff cuz jeff. Then we got cloak and dagger. Id be happy to play moon knight (who i main) to give them more healing capabilities. Thor hela and loki is crazy good and thats one for each role. Then u got rocket for infinit ammo for punisher and winter soldier. U got mantis and adam for free rezz. Idk man. Supoorts have the best team ups
This right here
last night 2 teams back to back with 5dps locking in record time and im sitting there like, do i tank without a healer? or heal without a tank.
Healer without tank DPS can easily handle themselves
If that happens i just play dps. I refuse to solo heal and I also refuse to tank without two supports. The correct answer is healer though.
I've secured many wins with solo healer. I feel the pain because I want to tank actually. But playing Jeff as solo healer is a pretty easy win. Keeping psylocke, Hawkeye etc alive can melt their tanks. Your DPS just needs to focus their healer and when they don't see a tank they kind of spread out so it's easier to squash healers quick
The problem is also that you’re being forced to play it because you know nobody else will, wether you like it or not. That’s why role queue is so important for being able to have fun (picking the role you want) and be more in control of balancing since there’s less things they need to look out for.
@@zaboono without role queue we don the mantle ourselves, with role queue were forced to don the mantle, it's like going to do the dishes , your mom tells you to go do the dishes while you were already planning to do it, sure you'll do it but you won't do it happily even if you already planned to
What’s wrong with a role lock mode? People who want that can play that mode and people who dont want roles can play the other way
Itd divide the player base and make queues much longer leading to more frustration and people leaving
@@miguelortiz8350 well, just turn comp into role queue then, simple, no division, people who want to instalock dps can, just takes them longer. And casual mode is not impacted at all.
No that's garbage. PLease quit and stay in overwatch
@@quint2568 it’s garbage to give people options. You guys are miserable people 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
@@miguelortiz8350 players could also leave because games are often wipeouts do to terrible team comps.
Just something to add to the discussion that I think a lot of people, some creators included, have missed: The Team-ups in the game currently are seasonal, and the buffs given to "anchor" characters for those Team-ups are applied at all times, regardless of whether or not the Team-up is active. The Team-ups are labelled as seasonal in the UI within the game itself. They are going to come and go as time/seasons progress and are not likely to be permanent. Using them as a balancing measure for particular heroes or combinations of heroes does not (to me) seem like the most stable approach to balance moving forward.
I'm still not decided on whether or not I would like to see role queue added to Rivals, and frankly I think it's too early for anyone to have an opinion one way or the other. But to your point about using stronger versions of Team-ups or creative "teamplay" DPS Team-ups to make "creative" team comps work to avoid role-queue, I don't think that's the solution personally. The players I've run into who are instalocking their favorite DPS hero, aren't playing that hero or any hero for the benefit of the team, and I don't imagine that they would be instalocking a different hero because it dropped a healing turret or something. I think having creative (not necessarily strong, but creative) Tank+Tank or Tank+Support Team-ups would incentivize more interesting gameplay all around instead.
Imagine Hulk being able to throw an enormous chunk of ice that caused an AoE stun if Luna Snow is on his team, or Captain America being able to use Thor's Mjolnir (and Thor getting a new weapon, Stormbreaker perhaps?) granting them each a new ability/small damage buff, or Strange reducing the cooldowns on Magneto's bubbles by blocking damage with his shield while absorbed damage by Magneto's bubbles shortened the cooldown on Strange's portal, or Groot changing Rocket's BRB so that it was on Groot's back and was active as long as Groot is alive, but didn't offer team revives, and Groot would respawn at Rocket Raccoon's location (with low health) instead of spawn? I think having Tank+Tank or Tank+Support Team-ups being interesting, creative, and FUN would solve the role-queue issue without infringing on anyone's freedom to run whatever "creative" comp they wanted.
Lastly, worrying that the game will become competitive and sweaty seems like a foregone conclusion to me. Players who flock to these games, who grind the ranked ladders, who min/max their team compositions, and discuss "the meta" are going to take a competitive approach to said game. And Marvel Rivals has pretty clearly set its sights on capturing that audience of players by releasing a game that very clearly has competitive Overwatch inspirations and esports aspirations (i.e. similar game modes, abilities, a built-in replay viewer, and tournament mode on launch day). Whether you, I, or anyone else may like it, Rivals is a competitive game aimed at competitive players.
Overwatch players should stay over there if they don’t like how rivals plays. I don’t want them turning this game into a overwatch clone
This game would not exist without the years of balance that went into OW.
@@supdevan6413 I get that but I don’t want them to be the same game. That stuff is good for overwatch but keep them separate
I really think the best option to keep the game the same is to put more popular characters in marvel as tank and make their kits as fun as possible so more ppl would be more willing to play it
Nothing more dangerous to a new game than streamers who think they know better and force a game to become something it isn’t. Let Marvels play out naturally and allow people to master each character and see how the team comp plays out. Let people be creative first
They say this because they have already seen this happen. The issue the game face now happen in 2016 in Overwatch. Player are saying and doing the exact same thing. Dps flood the matches>Dev make stronger tanks and heal to get more player to play them> Someone notices that a comp of 3 buffed tanks and 3 buffed heals make an unkillable team> Quickplay dies. We have been down this road before.
@ understood but overwatch did everything the streamers asked for and it’s dead. Thats my only concern is that marvels hasn’t even had a chance to be itself yet. Allow the game to breathe for awhile. Stop trying to read the future. But yeah it’s complex I get it. Appreciate the reply
@@umbralflow6883except they haven't because rivals isn't overwatch and isn't made by blizzard. At least give the devs time to come up with a solution that doesn't completely change the game. It's literally been a few days.
@@DissipativeAdaptation Im just saying they will face the same issues
For me, it’s not so much “oh my team isn’t balanced, we can’t work together as well!”
It’s more like “we have zero strategists, I feel like I can’t even play the fucking game”
When you have 5-6 duelists (which does happen often, at least in my MMR bracket) you either just fall over and die because of a lack of sustain and fighting over health packs, or you have to play so passively you surrender so much space and lose the objective anyway. It’s miserable
And the voices of the "Pros' have started coming to sway the direction of this game already. Goodluck to us casuals
I have to agree with you 100% when you say that "ranked mode sucks". Absolutely. The very concept is defined by "elitist opinion". What's hilarious is that, in early Overwatch (and pretty much any other hero shooter or even MOBA-style game) the so-called "meta" is always challenged--and rightly so, because the so-called "meta" is just the slack-jawed, common denominator opinion that is set by a vocal minority. It doesn't necessarily mean that no other team compositions or strategies can work. It just means that it's the common opinion "take" on how things "should" work, and because of social media, these trends in thinking are amplified until everyone is just parroting whatever some random set of "pro players" have said. Which is hilarious, because, even now, you get wildly conflicting takes on just about every hero from these same set of "pro players". In other words: they don't really f*ckin' know.
"Meta" and role locking is for people who don't want to have to actually think. They want an easy-to-follow structure that they can use to approach the game. This is why these things often take root. There are far too many people who want complex games like these to be simplified in some fashion. "Meta" is just short-hand strategy for the strategy-challenged. Role locking goes hand-in-hand with this mindset. People want to be TOLD what their team composition should be, because it's too difficult for them to think "outside of the box". This is the problem with Overwatch refugees. They haven't actually had to think about anything for a very, very long time. And they're not having a good time in Rivals because they can't wrap their smooth brains around all of the new heroes, strategies, team comps, etc.
The commentary on the Korean players being more inventive than the straight-laced, "by the book", no imagination Americans is spot on. This, I would argue, is the root cause of this "we need role lock" nonsense.
Mete means most effective.... it doesnt, and has never meant that no other strategy will work. People are winning hundreds of thousands of dollars playing in team based shooters. The meta isnt chosen by some randos on twitter. Also the idea that using the best strategy to win a team based strategy game,is lazy, is just laughable. Add role queue to comp and leave quick match alone. Its the only solution that makes sense
@@jmukes97 No it's not the only solution. Go back to overwatch and cry about that game. Rivals doesn't need to be ruined by the same people that destroyed overwatch.
Dps players are the most likely to call for role queue. IMO. Easy fix would be making more tank/healer team up combos.
i would hate a full role queue, but i'd like to see a potential matchmaking system that puts players who tend to play differing roles together. Doesn't lock anyone into any role, but helps make sure you have a team comp capable of playing each role at the level your elo is at if you choose to.
I think that one of the bigger reasons that open queue is fine in this game is that the designs are so simple. If having multiple tanks in Overwatch is multiplicative, then multiple tanks in Rivals is just additive, which doesnt create as big of a gap when you arent on the perfect comp.
I never get to play DPS because no one ever heals or tanks. I want some form of role queue so I can just get better.
My greatest hope is that the devs have a solid sense of what they want this game to be and stick to that. Player gripes, even from pros, lead to suggestions that tend not to be very thought out.
Bro I just want to play DPS or at least Healer, not being forced to play Tank just because no one else picks it in my team. If Role Queue would make the game worse, fine... let the game be worse, so I can have more fun, that's it, I don't care about the meta, the balance, the esport, if the game is considered good or bad, I just don't like that I need to suffer and pick something I don't want to pick because other players are selfish and insta lock dps and don't change the pick even if they have bad stats, those people should be punished and their fun of the game should be reduced, not mine - the player who wants to help the team even for the cost of his own enjoyment of the game.
If you don't wanna play Tank why other people should do?
amen. this game isn't even competitive (and obviously not making money off the competitive scene). their money is only in this game being fun and hoping more people choose to buy skins out of gratitude.
then dont play tank
@@HalRocThen people who doesn’t want to play tank like me just don’t? They should just go queueing and playing with others that want to play Tank. Role queue make everyone happy. They don’t have to play tank, I don’t have to play tank. We don’t need to be playing in the same match.
Overwatch players complaining about overwatch being bad while also advocating marvel rivals should replicate the same problems overwatch has. If this isn't proof it was thr players and "pros" that killed thr game I don't know what is.
@24:05 pause of the year
Why not just require at least 1 of every role? Suffices both sides and still allows 1-3-1 comps
The game at least suggests 1 of each. If I see missing vanguard I pick vanguard.
Apparently, team ups are being rotated on a season basis, so idk if that will affect Marvel Rivals' strategy to adressing role queue issue or not.
Role queue was a mistake for Overwatch and it would be a mistake in Marvel Rivals as well.
There is a much simpler solution and it would be to take the MOBA approach like in Heroes of the Storm where you have free queue based on MMR and then you have icons that tell the team which two roles you would like to play. If you are a tank main you just pick an icon for that and then your secondary role if you have one of those. This improves communication where you and your team are able to compromise on some roles without ruining queue times and it also avoids the overly strict 2-2-2 roles that ruined Overwatch by vastly reducing the ability for flexible team comps.
Overwatch when it launched was a significantly better game than it developed into. Listening to pros and ruining the casual core aspects that made Overwatch so fun to people really killed the game. I wouldn't want to see any Overwatch player feedback be taken into account as long as it makes it more like Overwatch 2.
I fully agree with the "less restrictions, more team-ups" for the future of the game, but not to solve the frustrations of nonsensical comps. I'd argue it would worsen the personal frustration of the player knowing their hero could be better, but they need to beg someone to swap NOT ONLY to a role, but to a specific hero, just so you can have fun on your hero.
I, for example, love playing Ironman, despite him being arguably bad. I can only live up to the expectation of a reliable DPS with a Hulk in my team and this is annoying because people don't want to go tank, and when they do it's never the bad one I need. Now imagine I WANT to play a tank, but I know my life is gonna be miserable UNLESS I have a highly specific pair-up?
My point being pair-ups add flavor to the game, but kinda set the fun (for me, specifically) back exactly because it straight up removes your solo agency in the game.
This comes from a long time Overwatch enjoyer and recent Marvel Rivals enjoyer that only wants to play its game and enjoy some time playing (sometimes) with my friends.
Ranked mode doesn’t suck. Quick play WILL soon be 6 dps. It’s just the honeymoon phase where people will play kindly. Rank is literally the mode where people will play supports and tanks. QUICKPLAY you won’t soon.
@ZarelidT you must be new to games like this. Because people will still not want to tank after honey moon phase. If that were the case dps times in ow 1 wouldn't have 5-40 mins
@ that’s what I am saying…
Even in quick play, i believe people will get tired of losing. When that happens they will try to win. Whether that means picking a tank or getting so good at dps that they overcome.
People are so focused in finding a way of focring people to play tank, but if people don't want to they just don't want to. They should balance the game in a way of having teams without tanks work even if it isn't optimal.
No role queue. Ima say this every single time. Love the game without it
What we’ve learned is that people don’t know what they want. At the end of the day Rivals is fun because the q times are fast, if you loose a game badly it doesn’t matter cuz your already in a new one in OW you have to sit there in q thinking about it. Role Q any time in the next year will kill this game
At the same time no role que is going to kill the game as well because the flex players are just going to give up eventually and stop flexing. Espically in comp.
Which death is better one that makes it so Noone enjoys the game or the one that makes you have to wait a little longer to que?
The Q times. The average player doesn’t want to wait to play the game. That’s why quick play is the popular game mode across the board, your average player isn’t doesn’t wanna try as hard as us comp players
@@Experion121 thats why role que shouldn't be in quick play only ranked. Ranked isn't and never was made for the average player
@@jacoby-flower If you wanna play role q comp play OW. The games are similar enough. This game thrives in the chaos
@@Experion121 the majority of community seems to disagree
you know overwatch still have an open q right? marvel rivals can have both too
The issue with adding a second mode the way OW did is that player psychology will mean the most players will play what is presented as the main mode of play. OW2 presents role queue as the main game, so even if players would have fun in open queue they're more likely to tough it out in role queue.
@@Spannondorf Wasnt it at one point it was side by side but more players played role so it became the main one.
@Spannondorf keep presenting the game as an open q main mode but at least give the option for those who want to play role q. I still dont see a reason not to have both modes
@@umbralflow6883 no, when role queue was added they said "the game is designed around role queue now" and pushed people to play that mode. The UI combined with the developers saying "this is how you play the game now" doomed open queue to be seen as casual by the majority of players. Most content creators exclusively playing ranked role queue didn't help the public perception either, so it was really a war on all fronts telling the player base that Role Queue is the "true" Overwatch experience.
@@jefersonluiz3356 yeah the way OW should have done it was to have competitive have the role queue ruleset, then just separate that into ranked and unranked. Keep the main game the fun mode, but provide the more restrictive mode for players who want to be extra sweaty.
If role lock gets added to marvel rivals the next major things I'll be expecting are 1) nothing of notice happening for the next 2 years 2) they announce a sequel, promising a repayable pve campaign 3) announcing that they are canceling pve and are thinking about bringing back an open queue format.
I agree with you 1,000,000%
Do not cater to the elites. Not again!
Let the elites cry their eyes out.
One thing that I'd like in Rivals is some sort of icon to let you know your team comp is out-of-whack - at least in the short term. Coming off role queue in OW, I don't even think to check on whether my team is sabotaging us by having my two supports both swap to DPS while I'm solo tanking, for example. Most of the time, my OW brain doesn't even consider that possibility and I run back to point to try to salvage a fight with my feeding teammates that went in 3-v-6 and continue the unwinnable fight for a couple of minutes before I realize how terrible our team comp has gotten. Some sort of exclamation point on the tab screen or something would help bring my attention to the issue quicker until I get used to the game. It could even be an option tool tip while you respawn.
It does. When you're in the hero select it tells you what you should play
@@ne-cepenno I think they mean some sort of alert a change has happened. Sometimes the strategist will just switch to dps midmatch and screw everything up.
@@ne-cepen You only see that alert if you are changing heroes. There's no notification at all when your teammates swap characters, let alone roles, during a round. If you go more than one fight without properly regrouping to see your whole team, you can lose before you even notice the problem.
I dont agree with your overwatch often, but i do agree with his point that the awfulness of OW was because blizzard was only listening to the pros and super competitive players to the point where now ow is just a sweat fest. However, also being a strategist main in Marvel rivals having to play matches with 5 dps is awful, I don't think role queue needs to be a thing just yet, but I definitely would like to see like minium role requirement and a maximum role requirment.
I think I could compromise to min 1 tank, however not 'role queue' as it will extend mm time. This isn't ideal either obviously, however Queue Times being low is more important to me than someone drawing the short straw in some matches. Personally, I love to flex anyway, so I suppose that biases me to be fine with this type of format ,but I also think it will be better for the game if more players learn to do so as well.
I don't think there should be role queue. I think the best thing to do, would be open queue, but only allow there to be a max of 2 supports on each team.
Playing against 3 supports is mind numbing, nothing dies and their ults are far too strong for there to be 3 of them.
This still allows for a lot of team comp freedom/expression, but not allowing there to be too much sustain.
Imo what ruined overwatch is it becoming extremely competitive and sweaty even in quick play turning off new players from even trying it they need to stick to just keeping the game fun and not make changes to appease competitive players
It's simple. Everyone wants to play DPS behind a good tank, but no one wants to play tank. You can discuss role queue vs open queue, or 5v5 vs 6v6 forever, but you won't find an intellectual solution that solves the fact that everyone just want to be the DPS.
It's not just that: playing a tank, or a healer, requires dedication, know-how, and responsability, something that not a lot of players want in these kind of games. People who play dps have zero care for the game, because they're squishies with high damage and barely anything, and if they die then someone else will take their spot for the moment. But as a tank/healer? Nuh-uh, you die you doom your own team, and your team will blame you, and you'll get frustrated, and you stop playing the tank/healer and go dps because "screw it".
This isn't just in this game though, this is literally in every game with a trinity system, or with some kind of healer or tank class. Heck even in TF2 I hardly saw people playing medic or heavy, but those games didn't have a limit of 6 players, so it didn't matter.
Maybe the game shouldn't have been restricted to 6v6 and maybe have like 9v9 or something like that. Then those kind of roles wouldn't matter.
He tweeted about "0 Tanks" or " 1 tank 5 DPS" comps. His 1/1/1 would indeed fix this.
You should listen more carefully and let him finish thoughts before you make commentary that turns out unnecessary after listen to his next sentence.
Maybe script this. Because you can argue well have lots of experience to base your opinion on.
Still thanks for the interesting perspective.
Marvel and overwatch being as different as possible sounds like a great idea 👍
People mass abandoned Overwatch over how shit it became precisely because of role queues.
And now they want to turn this game into OW.
Oh, for fuck’s sake.
Overwatch didn’t become shit because of role lock it was just at a crossroads and the people that left and are now on Marvel rivals are going to make it disproportionately look like everyone who played overwatch hates role queue because they’re disproportionately likely to dislike role queue since they’re playing a different game. I’ll always stand by that the game needs SOME kind of role-balancing system be it role queue or a max 3 min 1 system because the game just does not function when one team has a functional comp and the other doesn’t. Two teams with all dps can be a kinda fun chaotic shitstorm but when it was only one of the teams it was a guaranteed curb stomp that wasn’t fun to be on either side of. And that’s coming from someone who literally does not have a rank attached to my account cause I’m not looking for some hardcore experience- it just wasn’t enjoyable
@@turbo_jake It did for me 😅, and im not alone and thats to the comments point
People left because the game stopped getting updated, don’t try to change history to fit your narrative
@azure5644 it's list of reasons for anyone. When can be a factor of which is more prevalent. But Game Balance is just unequivocally the most frustrating thing about the game if you ask anyone regardless of someone's feelings. So I have no idea why you're saying a narrative is being framed 🤣
It was not because of role lock OW failed it need a ban system. Like role lock was a major failure I agree but if they had just add a ban system in ranked it would have fix 90% of the problems OW had. Like it would be so much easier for the Dev's to find the broken heros and fix the game with a ban system. Also will make it so 1 tricks can't only 1 trick in higher lvls and I could go on.
One problem I don't hear get addressed is that role lock means that heroes have to stay in their lane. When you're making a hero from existing characters, sometimes their abilities don't slot nicely into one role. Then, if a dps has some support abilities, and another dps has some tanky abilities, you run GOATS even with 2-2-2.
I hate pro players, man. They only want the game to lean towards their wants instead of the general player base.
I hope the Marvel Rivals devs keep the game fun instead of competitive.
judging by how they have "seasonal passives" it seems they are heavily leaning into the fun direction
THIS!
This opinion doesn't make sense. The goal of the game is to win, and it isn't possible to do that if everyone is instalocking DPS. if a casual player just wants to play their favourite character, which happens to be a DPS, then they just lose the game over and over again if they do not flex pick to something they don't want to play.
A game where it's one team vs another is competitive by nature and nothing changes that.
@@Pixelhopp well if winning matters that much to them then they need to pick up healer or tank instead of blaming their team mates, you might say that someone shouldnt have to do that but that someone also doesnt have to play the game or be so preoccupied with just winning. This is a community issue, people need to be more willing to play more roles instead of only playing a single character for several thousand hours if they only have fun winning.
@@skrrrtsusman3450 In an ideal world that would be fine, but there are too many games to learn from and people will always be selfish in these kind of games. If casuals end up losing because of bad team comps or are forced to play characters they don't want to play to have a half decent game, they will just go play a game that doesn't have any of those issues.
Freedo is right about the koreans and theorycrafting. I exclusively play open queue in ow2 and can tell that comps that don't seemingly work together actually do but require more teamwork. For example, had a game of comp 2 tanks 2 supps and we got rolled by some asians on 3 dps.
👏don't 👏balance👏the👏game👏based👏on👏top👏1%👏players👏
Actually role queue is to make the quality of the games of the bottom 80% of players higher quality.
role queue is meant to help the bottom percent of players btw, the top percent arent having problems with people not wanting to flex onto roles the team needs
the top 1% already can do 2/2/2 by themselves, the problem is the bronze 5 dps team.
3:00 itd be especially messy cuz as of right now we have confirmation that there will be 4 seasons a year and they went out of there way to say there will be "new heroes and maps each season." then went on to specify that it wasnt any type of mistake and they did intentionally say plural meaning most seasons are likely going to have more than one hero and possibly even more than one map each season. not to mention they plan on adding, removing, and changing team ups every season.
I think the problem is "supports" being healers. It ruins the game. Nobody can play without them, but nobody wants to play as them. Just make no characters heal, let people have to play as either tanks or dps and get their own heals from the map.
I dont want Marvel Rivals to become an ultra boring, slow ass 5v5 game with role queue, mega supports that dont die and no playmaking potential characters. I love how wacky and fun Marvel Rivals is, it almost reminds me of when Overwatch was a good game and not the mess it was made to be by people crying constantly for shit.
Also why don't these guys just go play Overwatch 2? Because Overwatch 2 is boring and has been since release, Overwatch 1 and even the classic mode was far more memey, fun and exciting than whatever mess Overwatch 2 became.
THIS
Remove all healers. Make everyone health regen. Done.
So far I feel that in rivals you realy only need one tank if your dps are good, but you absolutely NEED 2 support if the other team isn’t trash. It’s dam near impossible to keep 5 team mates up with one support.
"If your dps are good" that's the important phrase there. In solo que comp there's no way yo gurenttee this and from what iv seen there's usually only 1 soild dps per team in ranked. Granted I'm only in silver atm but almost all my games with 3 dps or more have one with 25-30 kills, one with 10-15 the other 1 or 2 dps are still in single digits but still refuse to swap to help the team
Theres cons for both role q and open q idk why people are getting upset about role q i think eventually they should add role q
Role lock made more sense in OW because the roles were defined pretty hard. There are a lot of mixed role characters in Rivals that make role queue a bit obselete. Tanky duelists, damage heavy strategists, etc. Role lock can create a lot more stiffness in a mixed roster like thi
2:24 the issue with ow2 is being 5v5, not being too much competitive. And guess what? Marvel rivals is 6v6
You sound like yo never played ow1
@@groudon1326 I did, since 2016 up to 2019
If the lack of vanguard play continues I can see a bit of a small reward incentive for queueing like OW does for all-role or support. I think that should suffice. Maybe a separate role queue game mode?
P.S I’m utterly against your anti-high level mentality when considering balance ideas because although you’re correct that they represent a small percentage of the player base, they’re also what the large majority of players are trying to get to skill-wise. So in a perfect world everyone’s trying to improve I don’t think it’s healthy to balance based on casual players when the innate goal is to improve and become not casual. At least for the majority imo.
Role lock adds nothing to the game :)
It adds everything to the game. 😉
It’s legit a self answering problem, you don’t want role queue because why? You want to instalock dps and you don’t want to wait for it
They need to make tanks feel enjoyable to play, but you mfers also need to step up and take your turn
I am a support main purely because in ow if I didn’t, no one died
You guys actually created role queue by being selfish
Just know theres a reason overwatch added it. People dont listen and do their own thing and throw the game regardless. If you want your game to have any competitive integrity or integrity in general (who would want to que for a game and 90% of the time u just have 5 dps even in quickplay). These games need role lock plain and simply.
If even blizzard the most stubborn dev adds it, its for a real needed reason. Thats the only thing ill give blizzard credit for.
@@Bekfst I only play tank
role lock just makes those who don't get to play the role they want want to play less.
I like marvel rivals, but it feels like McDonalds when overwatch is like going out for a meal. Rivals is fun but it is what it is a more casual, pick up and play overwatch.
I want role lock or regen health passive.
Health regen by far for me. Doesn't need to be too strong, just something to encourage disengaging and being more self sufficient.
Within the first week of MR and coming as a support player from OW2, I wanted role queue. But after playing more, I see why open queue is more fun. I got to try out vanguard and guess what, I had fun! I don’t really get a chance to play Duelist, but being flexible gives me a chance to try out different play styles that I wouldn’t have tried in the first place. MR heroes are fun to play in all roles, I think that’s why open queue works.
this game DOES NOT need role que holy shit come off it. it's fun as it is keep that super competitive bs to yourselves. want that bs? USE CUSTOM GAMES
I feel like it should be role lock in competitive, and none in casual, it seems the big argument for no role lock is from a non competitive standpoint so give the competitive players something to help competitive balance and the casual players something to encourage fun and diversity
as a slab of meat please dont make me aim please let me be the slab of meat i was made to be
The issue im having with rivals personally is that even though i enjoy playing all the roles sometimes, when i get an urge to hop on hawkeye and click some heads, i cant do that because my solo-que tean already instalocked 3 dps. The fundamental way that the hero select screen literally just tells you in a million ways to f off if you want to god forbid play one game on dps instead of flexing feels terrible. It feels like im being downright denied my chance to play the game sometimes, because instead of getting to play dps in my silver lobby i have to play support and hope and pray that my dps get picks.
As somone who plays a lot of OW, I just want to have fun and I think roleque should be completely separate from any casual gamemodes.