Which Commander Cards Are Banned and Why?
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 2 ต.ค. 2024
- Ever wonder exactly which Commander cards are on the banlist, and what got them there? This video will serve as your full guide to everything on the EDH banlist!
Check out the official Commander rules and bans here:
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Gifts Ungiven isn't banned because you tutor 4 cards, it's because you tutor UP TO four cards. If there's two cards you need in your graveyard to win the game, you just get those and your opponent HAS to put them in the yard.
Major nitpick here but… it’s not an “UP TO”. It’s a “fail to find” because the condition “different names” makes it a conditional tutor, which allows you to fail it.
Actually upon reading the new printing’s wording it is an UP TO !!! My bad, and I couldn’t think of a time where that’d be relevant anyway.
@@TRU3OGR3 the card literally reads “up to” hence the quote
@@LeviClay yea, it didn’t used to read like that
@@TRU3OGR3 ahhh of course! Yeah, because it was that odd wording before that ended up in this play being controversial at the time. The question is… was it just worded poorly and that was exploited, or was this always the intention?
What confuses me is you've got all these cards on the banlist yet the RC still allows Colossal Dreadmaw to run rampart.
Woll they ever come to their senses
It’s insane honestly
I wish commander would go back to banning cards as commanders. A lot of these cards are banned only because they're legendary and you could have them in the command zone. A restricted list is really not confusing, we just say this card is too good for you to get to see every game.
Or the other way around, Emrakul wouldn't need to be banned as a commander
I wouldn’t want to play against an emrakul deck. But emrakul as a silver bullet in a ramp deck seems totally fine.
@@cax1175 emrakul is banned because it's just not fun. There are all sorts of broken cards. But emrakul straight up ends the game the moment it's cast from the command zone.
@@Bigchungus-rg6uj that is why it would be fine as a game ending card in the 99... no different than any other wincon
Makes sense to say that as an enfranchised player. This change however was made with new players in mind. Personally I don't miss having to think about weather a card is banned as a commander or in general though.
Can't say I miss any of the banned cards either. They would render otherwise interesting gamestates and politics into very simple questions in the games my group plays.
I still have yet to hear a reasonable explanation for why "Banned as Commander" needed to go.
cause there isn't a good one.
Things are either too strong or they arent, it shouldn't matter what slot in the deck it takes.
If they still had banned as commander youd just tutor it by turn 3 anyway.
Banned in a single slot but not in others is not new player (read:10 y.o. learning to play, not your buddy you're teaching at the bar) friendly.
Theres 3 reasons pick your fave
@@peadrianlastname I said a *reasonable* explanation.
@@brianlinden3042 he did give them, its bot unreasonable to assume a card that is too strong in the command zone to retain a lot of that power even in the deck.
Its actually unreasonable to assume that a card which was banned for being to powerful is suddenly fine just because its not your commander.
@@theundergrad5994 considering Braids is a black card that you can easily tutor into your hand, mill and reanimate. How exactly is that different than being in the command zone, maybe a mana difference at best.
And you are talking specific cards, do it for every single card and realize that WotC doesn't have time to put up with that nonsense of unbanning a card in the 99 and waiting to see how that screws up the format.
You have to argue that the card doesnt deserve to be banned at all and sorry sweaty, Braids is a very powerful card regardless of where its being played from, so its not getting unbanned just because its slightly less powerful in the deck. It was always a turn 1-2 card when you build your deck around it and thats piss easy to do.
Respectfully disagree with Beezy's take on the removal of the "banned as commander" specific list. Rofellos Braids, and Golos would be fine in the 99 and it's disappointing to see cards banned as a whole strictly due to their strength in the commander slot.
Apply the logic to Companion cards like Lutri. He isn't a problem in the deck or in the command zone. He's just an issue outside the game because he's a free auto include, why not ban him from being the companion card?
@@flitterfish Exactly. He shouldn't be banned, except as Companion. It's one extra line of text on the banned list. Not too complicated or hard to remember for literally anyone who knows what a "banned list" is.
Agreed. I will never understand how "banned as commander" is confusing
Why not ban skullclamp if your deck has more than 5 x/1s?
Why not ban jeweled lotus but only if your commander costs 4?
Why not ban omnath decks from running fetchlands?
Why not ban brainstorm and fetches being in the same deck?
Idk if it'd get anywhere, but I'd sign a petition to bring back banned as commander
As fast as the format is becoming, Rofellos would be a safe unban at this point. Six mana on turn 3 is easily doable with Kinnan and Selvala, and isn't that busted anymore. #FreeRofellos
You mentioned Griselbrand in the command zone. IMO, that's the safest place you could see him, given that he's an 8-drop. He'd be far more dangerous in the 99, where he could be Entomb/Reanimated or fetched with Shadowborn Apostles.
Easily, I've gotten Sliver Queen out turn two several times. I'm almost for a nothing is banned type format even though I build more creature based decks and not looking for some combo, so I don't win that often, just play to have fun.
I began playing Commander in Summer 2007. Trade Secrets was legal for many years, and it took the 2011 Commander reprinting to finally expose to the rest of the community why it was so powerful and took far too long to get banned.
Very interesting, I did not know that!
because before EDH became Commander it was a 1v1 format. Thats also why you see so many now unplayable cards in old decklists.
@@ElrondMcBonk - That is SUPER WRONG. EDH literally means Elder Dragon Highlander. It originated as a five player format of 200 life (40 each) and each player built a deck based on the original Legends Elder Dragons. It has ALWAYS been a multiplayer format, and was long encouraged to be a five player format. Decks were encouraged to be built from bulk cards, as your good cards were in your tournament decks. Cards like fetch lands didn't have to be banned because you weren't even supposed to be using them. They were supposed to be in your extended and legacy decks, not the casual thematic battle cruiser singleton decks.
Whoever told you it was for duels was lying to you or you have confused it with HIGHLANDER, the singleton format without a commander of color restriction deck building rules.
@@PaulGaither five player Ooooof
@@Dark-Pikachu1 - 5 isn't that bad. 6+ is a problem. The "problem" with 5 player games is more often table space than the number of players/turns/length of games. 4 players sit at tables far easier than 5. On camera for streaming and even covid zoom games, 4 also fit better. 5 is fun if you have a round table or a sizeable dining room table with someone on the end. This also allows you to actually speed games up by playing star magic, where you two neighbors (one on each side) are your allies and you win if the other two lose the game. That can create a lot of fun interactions. It is also why Trade Secrets is so strong. Just target an ally on your left or right to go off.
Thanks to field of the dead, prime time is LITERALLY also grave titan. IT IS NOW TWO CARDS IN ONE
There actually was a time when Time Vault got changed to only work if you skipped your turn. It was very convoluted and used a specific type of counter (hello proliferate!), and, ultimately, the errata was removed and the card restored to it's original functionality.
Why nobody says that Gifts Ungiven are two Entombs and two Demonic Tutors for 3U at instant speed. If this is not good rate, considering Diabolic Tutor for 2BB the I don't know what is.
Prophet of Kruphix, brings back memories. I started playing Magic and by extension commander during the Theros block and I remember pulling a Prophet from a pack and throwing it into one of my pre-cons when my friends and I were in the middle of a fierce arms race. The card is super busted and broke my playgroup. We ended up banning it at our table way before the rules committee had their say
As somebody who is new to this format some of these bans seem so random. Like, why is Hullbreacher banned, but dockside extortionist is completely fine? That card seems just as broken. Same with Erayo and Braids being banned while Kuon, Ogre Ascendant is legal.
There's also no reason for Sol Ring (and Mana bond and Mana vault of course) to exist, it ticks a lot of these boxes: Mandatory auto-include in every deck, put people ahead significantly, ...
Not to defend it, since I hate treasure tokens as a whole due to how they are a massive crutch to support players not putting in the time to learn how to build a mana base, BUT
Dockside only gives you treasure for exploiting the overall board state, massively putting you ahead if you play him out when the field is optimal. He at least takes SOME game sense and attention.
I slotted Hullbreacher into my very badly made merfolk tribal deck. Never had to even think, just play hullbreacher and congrats you have the most mana and no one else gets to draw extra cards. took zero thought, and always blew my opponents out the water when he stayed on the field.
Its the fact that hullbreacher stops draws in order to create tokens thats ridiculous. Dockside just generates them.
As for the next point. Erayo counters once a turn when it flips, which isnt hard to do in blue, especially izzet decks, braids sacs permanents, which was the problem. You set it up early enough, theyd have to sac lands, whereas Kuon you have to jump through a hoop to get to its other text, which just sacs creatures. Kuon is nowhere near either erayo or braids.
Sol ring seems to be an exception to the rule that ubiquitous cards get banned, so i dont know why its banned, mana vault is kind of a colourless black lotus that keeps pinging you early on until you set up the mana to utilise it again (however a point can be made for other things that untap it).
Manabond, after reading it for the first time, seems really weak, bc you have to discard, and thats quite a bit of disadvantage unless you are specifically in grave decks, and even then they will miss their hand. By any chance did you mean Mana Crypt? I have no idea why this isn't banned, its like sol ring but infinitely better
Hullbreacher is banned because it can continuously give you mana and stop draws, and because of its interaction with wheel spells. If you have 6 mana you cast WoF or Timetwister and while those are on the stack you flash in hullbreacher. Everyone discards, you draw 7, nobody else draws any, and you make 21 treasures. From there you win the game. If not that turn then the next. Also, if your opponent tries to play a draw spell or wheel spell you can just flash it in and the same thing happens. Card is both a stax piece and a combo piece.
As for the other mana rocks not being banned, couldn't say. The rc and plenty of people in the community say they don't want "auto-includes", but honestly that's baked into the cake when you play a tcg. Some cards will always be better than other cards and will always be better in the format than others. If they banned all the current best mana rocks people will just play the next best ones. Honestly, the argument to ban certain rocks or other fast mana seems kinda pointless except in extreme cases.
Cards that were banned over quote racism is really stupid none of those cards were intended to be racist people just chose to take it that way and those people are stupid
Everytime someone reminds me that Biorythm is banned, my blood boils. I cannot comprehend how anyone thinks this card is good.
Even with Evacuation!! You need 8 Mana to cast the Biorhythm + 5 to cast the Evacuation + a creature with Flash in order to win! That's (at least) 14 mana!
Meanwhile Dockside Extorsionist can produce an egregious amount of mana while only costing 2 AND don't forget he can be reanimated, blinked, bounced etc...
It's so silly
Grandfather's clause thy name is the Commander banlist
Hard agree. Out with dockside sol ring and mana crypt
@@adamm4942 I was considering buying dockside recently because with double masters 2022 it dipped hard. And then I remembered It's not even a fun card. It's just strong and doesn't make a game fun, it just gives me a huge advantage out of nowhere because it's overpowered. Same reason I'm not going to get Smothering Tithe or Cyclonic Rift.
I've already decided not to run Sol-Ring anymore and If I'm not going to run Sol-Ring, then why run dockside extortionist? I'd rather get good dual lands for that money.
It doesn't help that it just feels like a ban on these cards could come at any time. Like.... why is Mana Crypt still legal? That card is BETTER than Sol-Ring and Sol-Ring is already highly problematic.
@@paulszki 👏💯👍
@@adamm4942 Well, sadly Sol Ring has been printed too much. I don't think we'll ever see Sol Ring Banned.
I still hope for a Mana Crypt + Dockside BAN thought.
Interesting that Academy is banned but Gaea's is okay. I know artifacts are different than creatures but in almost any commander deck both of these tap for way more than two
creature decks just aren't scary and there is a ton of creature removal in the format
@@atheistsquid the same can actually be said for artifact removal in every color and colorless
Academy is banned because every word thats different between the two is better on academy.
I, as a Captain Sisay player totally agree with you. Gaea's is the first card Sisay gets, and there is not one game that I don't get Gaea and tap for mass amounts of mana - 1-drop mana dorks that tap for mana THEN as a creature they add extra mana with Gaea's is pretty broken.
I can actually see it getting banned soon since they do have 'Circle of Dreams' creature for GGG that is a Gaea's, and also 'Growing Rites of Itlimoc' which is a tutor on its own which then turns into a Gaea's.
I don't want it banned, but I would understand if it was... and with the two aforementioned cards that do the same, I can see it been set up to being banned.
@@leagreenall5972 Cabal Stronghold is a Black Gaea's Cradle but it only checks for swamps while also can tap for 1 colorless mana but there is a less expensive to activate card Cabal Coffers that does the same thing but it can't tap for colorless then of course you have those two lands on a stick as Magus of the Coffers
And since land destruction is frowned upon for some dumb reason those 3 cards that i mentioned could be considered stronger
i still think lutri should be un banned and just the whole companion mechanic should be banned instead. like commander doesnt even have a sideboard in the first place. they had to invent a whole new zone just to make it work.
Bad take. If this is the line of thinking than partners should be banned as well.
@@adamm4942 What? Partner was specifically designed for the format. Companions sit in your sideboard, which doesn't exist in Commander, and they made a special exception just for them. If Companions can work, then wishes should also work.
@@adamm4942 I dont know what angle you’re taking this from, but partner doesnt give you a made up 101st slot in the deck. Partner commanders eat a slot out of your 99 first of all, and then they also have to synergize. Companion gives you a rule for deckbuilding (something you couldve done yourself) and rewards that minimum effort with a free extra card that shouldn’t be in the game. Horrible take.
Blind guessing the moxfield ad at 12:12
Thoracle hits so many of the bullet points on the list you gave up front. Can anyone give a reason why it shouldn't be banned?
Thoracle is currently on their watchlist, along with dockside and Tergrid.
As for why it shouldn't be banned, the RC is hesitant to ban cards and it's not as ubiquitous as some of the other cards on this list were.
Rudy from Alpha Investments, Mark Rosewater, Aaron Forsythe and Chris Cox all have Thoracle cEDH decks. That’s my guess
Dockside I can see being a revenue issue because they decided to reprint it for the 2XM cash grab. Thoracle isn’t that expensive so idk what justification they could possibly have on that
Can we please not blame cEDH for this? Thoracle is even more problematic in cEDH than normal.
Also, the people you just named aren't on the RC, and have no say in the commander banlist.
Hell, MaRo has repeatedly said that he doesn't play commander because he doesn't like politics when he plays.
@@simonteesdale9752 Source: they made it up
crusade being banned is not rightful at all, I'm still mad
Crusade and Cleanse are both insane. The others mostly make sense, though.
@@brianlinden3042 100%
Golos kind of was a problem. It's just the definition of what a 5-color Good Stuff deck would want, and it doesn't even cost all 5 colors to cast. But I think what pushed it over the edge was that its ETB lets it cheat a half-price value on the Commander Tax.
Still don't understand how Crusade if Cathars' Crusade is legal, or something like Tivadar's Crusade is legal.
Some of the 'racist' card bans could easily be 'fixed' with an art change. It's not impossible to do.
they could be, but wizards never will because "oh they're still connected to a racist card"
@@Hazaak. the whole thing was nonsense virtue signalling
Arabian Nights is the only expansion that is set in the real world.
@@atheistsquid finally someone who agrees with me and best part is no one played those old cards anyways so no one bats an eye
i suspect it was cuz they had to ban jihad and so then to be logically consistent they had to ban crusade too. Now i don't agree with the crusade ban but I will say there were several cards on that list that CERTAINLY needed a ban
But technically wouldn’t channel be 39 mana because wouldn’t you die at 40
Blue seems guilty of a bunch of these commander rules.
Repetitive? Cyclonic Rift, Thassa Oracle, Counterspell, Spellseeker, Mystical Tutor...
Fun? Urza, Teferi...
:P LOL
Every color has tutors… and counters are only an issue to people who want to suffer no obstacles in their grand scheme wins lol
While Hulk was one of the key combos, the big thing that makes flash broken is that putting the creature card directly into play is part of the effect. There's no potential for counterplay because you don't know what the caster getting from it until it is already resolving. Flash just has to be countered blindly or risk an immediate loss.
In regards to Gifts Ungiven, I'm not certain what's so broken about that when we have Tooth and Nail letting you tutor up a combo wincon and put it directly into play.
The difference is that gifts costs 4 mana instead of 9. I am surprised more people don't use Defense of the Heart which is often better then Tooth and Nail.
@@nicholaswalker2278 Biorhythm costs 8 and requires another card or board state to pull off a win. Coalition also costs 8 and and has board state requirements. Gifts only puts the cards in your hand, you still have to play them to win, plus it's known information so your opponents have a chance to react appropriately before you play the tutored cards. Tooth and Nail can immediately win the game for 9 mana, and is in the best ramp color. So its 1 mana more than other banned cards with no other setup/board state requirements to immediately combo off for the win.
Defense of the Heart is the "Balanced" version of Tooth. Outside of flash/recursion hijinks It has to survive a full turn on the table, and is susceptible to enchantment removal while tooth can only be countered.
@@mrw210 I would say that gifts ungiven is better then any of the other cards you listed because of being instead speed. If you don't have enough mana to play the cards you tutored then you can use gifts on the end step before your turn then go off from there. 8-9 mana non creature spells that win the game are quite clunky and difficult to use in actual play even with green ramp.
A large part of why gifts ungiven is used is because you can guarantee that cards go to your graveyard. Rather than finding four cards you can find only two which immediately go to your graveyard and you can probably win from there at instant speed for four mana.
It's important to remember that EDH is a casual format. You can play it competitively, sure, but at it's core it's not meant to be that serious.
Meaning that the banlist really should be treated as a suggestion, rather than a rule. If a playgroup is cool with playing with banned cards, great. Of course the issue is that it's hard to convince a playgroup when RC says a card isn't allowed.
So on Recurring Nightmare 26:10
Tortured Existence seems like a very similar card in function. Potentially stronger if you are low enough CMC to take advantage.
I understand anything into play is a recipe for disaster, but see their discussion on Flash.
The Nerds say the really unfun thing is that you can loop it. I don't really get that. It's an Enchantment the whole point idea is that you have a reusable ability.
My opinion is it should be unbanned. Even though it is sort of a 1 card combo I think there are plenty of equally unfair strategies in play that we deal with just fine. If they just banned Tortured Existence on principal that would be consistent at least.
I'm with you on the "Golos did nothing wrong" sentiment. While there were busted things that could be done with it, the same is true of a staggering number of commanders. My Golos 5C superfriends nonsense was my favorite deck, despite being one of my least competitive lists, but was utterly gutted by the loss of the Bot. There are a few possible replacements, but almost every aspect save for the planeswalkers themselves hinged on its activated ability; the prior Jodah is as close as I've gotten, and is but a pale reflection.
Here's one of the issues: What level would you rate your Golos super friends deck as? Because any deck with Golos is at least a 7.
Kinda like how having Najeela as a commander gives you free wins, but instead of flooding the board T3-5, you just win almost any game that goes long.
@@simonteesdale9752 At most, I'd place it at around a 6-7 (my only deck which easily falls beneath that point is a novelty politics deck, at around a 4), with most of my primary playgroup (and consequently, my lists) aiming for 7-8. The upper bound for the Golos deck in question involved looping off nondeterministically around t4 (with a mathematically perfect hand/library order and zero interference), though across the dozens of games I played it never happened before t7-8, and could easily be disrupted before/during the process with several common classes of removal, counterspells, or hate-pieces. Ultimately, I believe that your assertion of 7 as a baseline assumes certain deckbuilding considerations within the 99 (such as grabbing powerful lands, whereas I intentionally limited first ability to fixing in this list, with the second ability serving as the deck's fulcrum); if my reading is off-base, please feel free to elaborate.
@@dcdougherty8725 Without any of the following lands, I *might* consider a Golos deck a 6. (Field of the dead (Zombies), World tree (colours don't matter), Bouncelands (no commander tax) or just good utility lands.)
The reason I put Golos so high, is because he just wins the late game with random value and removing him barely helps.
I've seen Golos chaos win by hitting Possibility storm + Minds dilation on turn 6. That deck was ~40 jank enchantments & Golos, and it didn't matter because when you are flipping the top 3 into play every turn it almost doesn't matter what it is.
In your deck, how likely was Golos to hit a Planeswalker & a board wipe and just win the game? Did you ever run out of stuff to do in a game?
Does not having Golos change any of these?
So how is Thoracle not banned yet?
Thoracle isn't banned because thorcle is not the problem. Hermit druid, demonic consultation, turbo mill/exile is the problem. Thoracle will just be replaced by labman again and you guys will be mad at labman next.
@@Gweezy12 thoracle is the problem card. Labman requires you to physically draw out but can be removed in response. Thoracle checks on ETB so with an empty library it still wins. It also means worse case scenario it can be played to fix draws. With it only costing 2 instead of 3 is a big difference.
@@andrewmoy548 Ok i play all the variants of labman the restiction to draw a card isn't a real limitation. Labman can be played and win instant speed on top of interaction because of turbo mill cards. The labman type cards are only as good as how fast you can mill or draw your deck. In casual thoracle isn't a problem. In CEDH it's the fastest win con, but its risky its sorta all in. Other combos in CEDH like hermit loops and underworld breach give you a lot of saftey. CEDH has the tools to deal with turbo mill.
@@andrewmoy548 Oracle isn't the problem bro. U keep referring to it being easier to trigger than Labman, totally ignoring the fact you you have no library. How did you get no library? Usually paying one black mana and naming a card that isn't in your deck... It's the exploited 'exile your library cards' that are the problem.
I play in a pod where you actually have to name a card in your deck if you DC or similar. Killed that combo in one sentence.
@@Gweezy12 wait labman is way more fair than thoracle, a replacement would be a great thing!
Prophet of Kruphix wasn't just banned for being abusable, but for being in exactly the worst color combination to abuse that advantage. The problem simic had before prophet was that they couldn't really snowball safely because their creatures were sorcery speed thus they had to tap out on their turn, leaving them mostly defenseless and unable to hold up permission magic on the opponents turn. Now imagine being able to vomit on field and then untap on all your opponents turns, now all you're really missing is a decent draw engine.
25:30 yes Kenrith's color identity is 5 colors but it still only counts as white for coalition victory.
Idk who declares whats banned and whats not but Nexus of Fate is bs. An its not banned.
Lutri should absolutely only be banned AS a general, there's no harm at all in having cute little otter in the 99 in my opinion.
Can't you say flash was banned because it wins out of nowhere? You don't need a board state just blue and 1 and 2 cards in hand
really throwing us off with these moxfield times.. I wasnt even close
And you're telling me with that ban criteria that Thassas oracle isn't banned yet?
Joe's hair looks like he just got out of a high speed convertible ride...
Coalition Victory would be fun if it was an Enchantment that won the game on your upkeep. Should probably say Devotion to creatures includes WUBURG instead of just is that color. Could probably drop the 3 generic from the cost, too.
rofellos was in fact legal in the 99 but just banned as a commander when banned as commander was a thing.
I miss banned as commander, bring it back!
I am hoping for Golos to never return. I'd rather play every game against Chulane than a single game against Golos. It ignores Commander tax, needs to be killed on sight every single time or you basically just lose. Good riddance.
I’d argue for primeval titan being unbanned because it’s my favorite magic card, it died for the sins of cabal coffers, glacial chasm and gaea’s cradle. Also why is it banned if dockside is legal that card gives you way more mana
Braids did nothing wrong, banned as commander should come back.
I don't think Gifts Ungiven should be banned when Intuition isn't, it should be both or neither.
VERY different cards. With intuition the opponent can look at your cards and say "you want that in your hand, so it's going in the graveyard" or "you want that in your graveyard, it's going to your hand."
Gifts ungiven is UP TO 4 cards. You can just go get two card that you need in your graveyard and your opponent has no choice but to put them there for you.
@@LeviClay Gifts is only "better" for its flexibility, there are better cards for throwing into your yard and better cards for search+reanimation. There are almost the exact same Gifts is just more flexible, there are many cases where intuition is better and vice versa.
@@LeviClay They just aren't very different.
Haha awesome I just saw that Post Malone is a Patreon supporter of you in the "buy a CEDH Deck" Tier xD
I would honestly love time vault if they errata time vault to have shroud. Its not really a good idea unless it stops seeing play in vintage though, to avoid messing with the one format its legal. An alternative would be printing a throwback version costed at 4 or 5 mana with shroud. It would still be great because of cards like seedborn muse, unwinding clock, curse of bounty, dramatic reversal, turnabout, etc but i think it would be in the realm of playable and not busted. The concept at its core is super fun, its just far to easy to abuse.
Unwinding clock still works
@@Rattan-Rat I literally said that
Beezy was correct, yes? Color identity and color are different.
Did they talk about the cards that were banned for being “offensive”?
They talk about them at the 3 minute mark
Video 3 of guessing 1:09 (69 seconds) for the Moxfield ad. I'll get it one of these days...
I’m glad you’re keeping track of the days
My main complaint with things like sundering titan being banned is... Why is Armageddon not banned as well? If we've established consistent land destruction is a problem, why is MLD ok? I feel like everything that can destroy multiple lands easily should just be banned, obviously things like strip mine are needed to combat the power of certain lands but cards that just reset the resources of everyone are no fun to play against, even the draw go deck
I still don't understand how Intuition isn't banned while Gift's Ungiven is while both are essentially the same card that accomplish the same thing every time either is played.
Intuition allows interaction and requires you to search 3 cards. If you search your 2 card combo + 1 extra an opponent can make you have to jump through an extra hoop to throw that combo piece into the yard. Gifts has zero interaction since you simply fetch 2 cards and they both go to the yard immediately. It probably would be relatively safe to also ban intuition on the same basis as gifts but then we might have to start looking at other straight to yard cards and it feels like a slippery slope.
I used to play Prophet of Kruphix in a Momir Vig deck until I found out it was banned. Momir and prophet together is STUPID good. All that mana, plus something to do with all that mana...oh yeah, and every creature is a tutor!
So im going to say up front this is just a difference in opinion, but i still disagree with refellos being banned even with your reasoning. When it comes down to it the most busted rofellos hand still will never compete with the most busted hand in marwyn or selvala and those to can still provide way more mana throught the course of the game. I dont thing ease of use should be the deciding factor here for what is just a similar commander to stuff we already have.
Its about the fact that the "busted" hand they described consists of 3 basics, not specific singleton cards
Prior to Rofellos being banned, my friend played a Rofellos deck. It was just miserable to play against. Basically we all had to hope someone had early removal, otherwise the game was just over.
@@SWAT6809 when you put it like that i guess it makes sense but still even with that i dont think rofellos is anywhere near as busted as a bunch of currently legal commanders.
@@skullkrusher-dx4kg SkullCrusher was the best weapon in Morrowind. Had to levitate up to that chest above all the lava to get it. Aaah, good times
@@brendans1983 10/10 you are the best person on the internet.
I was once in a game at an LGS that som😅 as like, “Yea, so I saw this card, and I was like, ‘No one is playing this, which is weird.’” They, then go to cast Tinker. I, and someone who is a judge, were like, “Uhhhhhhhh.”
RIP Lutri, I wish they would have just banned it as a companion
On panoptic mirror, the reason it's banned is: "During Atlanta playtesting, Sheldon and Gis played 1-vs.-1 EDH with 100 life totals. After these games, they decided the card ought to go."
Very sad about the Golos Ban, not for me but for my friend who ran Monoblack Golos, his secret was that the real commanders Cabal Coffers tutored with Golos
So sad that Sylvan Primordial is banned. Would be awesome in cEDH, but guess casual EDH can't handle it.
the 7 "racially insensitive" cards should never have been banned and was pure virtue signaling by wotc and lutri should of just been banned as companion. banned as commander being removed was a mistake. edh boomer rant over
Grislebrand makes me sad because I have a Lilly tribal deck with contract as my win-con. Sadly he's the only one I can't add.
Commander should be renamed baby format
Bring back Lutri!! Just not as a companion - only as one of the 99 or commander
I have to disagree with why Paradox Engine is banned. It got banned right around the same time that mono blue Urza came out. Which fair, that deck would be miserable. But the reasoning being that the turns would take too long?? There are plenty of legal cards where turns take too long. Just look at Ad Nauseum, Dramatic Reversal/Isco Scepter (does the same thing for cheaper mana), Lim-Dul's Vault, Scroll Rack Decks, Underworld Breech and Brain Freeze just to name a few.
I think that Dockside Extortionist might be on the chopping block for some of the same reasons that Hullbreacher got banned: it's in EVERY red deck, it's hard to counter without self-harm (sacrificing your own artifacts), it warps the fundamentals of mana ramp for your opponents, it demands specific responses (Vandalblast, or your own DE), it creates a *huge* resource imbalance too early in the game, it's too easy to combo with, and it can win games out of nowhere. Might not be such a big deal if it was, like, 6 mana instead of 2. Good riddance, I say.
I think the only reason they haven't touched it yet and they did get hullbreacher is mainly cuz of color and the stifle that hullbreacher puts on your opponent. Dockside is just a humongous red ritual when you look at it, but hullbreacher is just narset parter of veils alongside a blue ritual that doesn't stop giving mana
@@zakbrooks7354 This is correct. Dockside is a very powerful card for sure, but hullbreacher was broken. If you've ever been staring down a wheel spell and seen someone flash in a hullbreacher you know. I think its hard to say that hullbreacher was banned for any reason other than this. The fact that it sits on the field and says the opponents can't draw extra cards is actually irrelevant after its initially played. The card was just a piece of a 2 card wincon with any wheel spell. In competitive it literally turned 6 mana into 21, emptied your opponents hands, and draw you a fresh grip. This card wasn't banned because players were just throwing it on the field and letting it sit like some stax piece.
Paused at 0:44 to guess on the Moxfield ad. 16:47
I personally think CEDH and EDH should be completely separate formats like Vintage and Legacy. I'm not a fan of Commander for several reasons, but the lack of centralized governance is one of the top 3.
Golos deserved to be banned. He just led to so many players playing 5 color “janky” decks that ended up dominating games, while Golos was just an unstoppable value engine. Yes, there are other powerful commanders that are very popular, but they are always going to be a linear strategy. Yuriko will always be ninja tribal, Korvold will always be a sacrifice deck, Tergrid will always be a “still your opponents stuff” deck. Playing them multiple times will get boring. But a Golos deck can be anything, so if the Golos player realizes they’re World Tree deck is so powerful, they’ll just build a Angel Tribal, and it will still dominate the game because the commander always accelerates them ahead of the game.
I don't agree on the statement "Korvold will allways be a sacrifice deck". While it's technicaly true, what is the downside off saccing your treasures for example? It's just so easy to get a lot of them nowadays and it's nit like you really lose something when saccing them.
@@ericzettl1563 you’re missing the point. Yes, Korvold will always be the best sacrifice commander. But that’s all you can ever build him to be, you play sacrifice multiple times, it’ll get boring. But When players played Golos and got bored of one strategy, they just start playing another strategy that’ll still dominate the game just because Golos is at the helm.
@@ericzettl1563 Someone plays Korvold multiple times, eventually the deck becomes boring to play because you’re doing the same thing over and over. Are they going to build a Korvold elves deck? No. They’re going to take the deck apart and never touch the commander again
Still legal and totally unfun: Narset, Parter of Veils with Timetwister (still legal in Commander) or Wheel of Fortune.
Yes it is unfun, and yes the combo is strong. But I think it's not banned because you do need to put Narset on board first, then cast a Wheel effect, so there is a window to shut her down ;
it's vulnerable and can't defend herself. Finally it doesn't WIN you the game. Yes its hard for other people to come back, but most of the time you're the archenemy and if you don't have a wincon after this combo, you're in trouble.
It's nothing like Flash Hulk combo for exemple.
We could see Narset ban because it's really unfun (but I don't believe it will happen), but it's not too strong.
@@Hyxtrem dude the same with Hullbreacher can be said even if he can give you a ton of treasure tokens just sit there hope you draw you combo cards or more wheels
@@JohnnyYeTaecanUktena Hullbreacher was way worse because it had Flash tho
@@Hyxtrem that is not why it was worse. It says "If they would draw a card except in each of their draw steps, "Instead" you create a Treasure token". The flash does not matter it is the replacement clause that makes the card super broken, Narset does not do that they just can't draw extra cards with her out not put you way ahead of the game for the same mana cost even without flash Hullbreacher was busted to just cast at Sorcery speed.
Like literally Hullbreacher would not have been banned if it was not for that replacement effect it would have been like every other wheel lockdown. Now if it would have not put "Instead" and just read like "If they would draw a card except in each of their draw steps, you create a Treasure token" then it would have been fine and not banned. Like opposition Agent is not banned and it has Flash however it does not give you resources to cast the cards you stole from your opponent otherwise it would have been banned just like Hullbreacher.
Again gaining free mana without a drawback is really strong and a draw back for Hullbreacher would have been opponents gets to keeps the cards they drawn
Actually Time Vault original text does say "to untap it, you must skip a turn." if was wizard of the cost opportunity to re-write that restriction in a better way, but instead they just translated it to "you may choose to skip a turn to untap it."
In there defense that was the intended wording
what i don't get is that why is sway of the stars banned if Worldfire does pretty much the same effect but worse in every possible way? I think the bans here should be the other way around
How is Erayo banned but Glass Spinner is not? Paradox Engine and Prophet of Kruphix banned but unwinding clock isn't? Biorhythm banned but Worldfire isn't? Craterhoof Behemoth should have made that list. I threw a Sadistic Sacrament into my deck and my playgroup was not happy when I pulled 15 cards out of their deck (Golgari Deck). I'm sure if a card like that became meta, it too would be banned. I agree there should be a banned list, however all it does in my opinion is follow the meta (look to stoneforge mystic as an example)
I'm still holding on to my Golos deck in hopes that he gets unbanned
i just ask if its cool to play him and most people say yeah when i explain i dont own field of the dead or any of his old win cons
While it is good to know which and why cards are banned, one should always keep in mind, that you don't have to obey that list, or anything RC/WotC says, as long as you're playing unsanctioned, casual games and everyone is on the same page about what is ok and what isn't.
That being said: Many conspiracy cards do work with EDH. Just take a look at the "Ultimate Commander" series over at the KingdomsTV channel. They use Conspiracy, Planechase and other "special format" cards in these games.
Honestly, Yuriko, the Tiger's Shadow and any subsequent prints of "commander ninjutsu" should get a tax to the ninjutsu cost/normal cast cost if they get sent back to the commander zone. I would say that as is, it's probably as broken as eminence.
What makes Protean Hulk so powerful? Seems pretty ok for what it is.
It leads to various infinite combos.
Extra turns are frowned upon. I got that. What about extended turns, like extra phases? Relentless Assault for example.
“Cause severe resource imbalance” Just got done playing a Titania deck where the dude drew most of his deck, double duped his mana pool, and had like 200 floating green every turn and all his permanents untapped on each player’s upkeep.
Golos sucked. Literally everyone who played it jammed eldrazi or always an Expropriate deck. Serves all the stupid nerds right who poured 100’s of dollars into samey Golos decks.
Notion thief, Jin ???? Same ish different card why are they not banned? I dont get this…. Hmmmmm also tolarian, serras, and gaeas are all the samish in the right decks sooooo…??? Where is the logic in the ban list….
Anyone here use Moxfield on their phone? Keen to hear some feedback, haven't got a PC and wasn't sure if a phone would be fun to navigate through, what sounds like, a lot of cool options.
Terrible example with Biorythm. Evacuation Biorythm+ a creature , that is at least 13 mana and no interaction from the table. Current Commander combos require way less than that
Iona and braids: banned because rules committee is bunch of big babies who don't like stax. Iona is not because of painter's servant there are cheaper/better two card combos with the same effect and you all know it
I don't get why lutri is a problem. Are you saying that Commander allows companion cards to be played as companions so it'sa free extra card?
I already got the Moxfield ad once, legitimately, but I will say 19:34.
I was one of the people that helped get Braids banned by writing a disgusting primer on how to build the most nasty braids deck back in 2007/2008. Yes, i am proud of that, because the format is better off without her, no matter how much I miss her, and my original foil version of her has a prominent spot in my collection binder. my good friend and I built Blue and Black Braids decks for two-headed Giant Commander and rolled local events. Never cast blue braids, just used her for the flavor/lore/lols. mono blue to have counter spells and bounce to protect black braids and even targeted draw spells to target the black player to help keep it going. So glad she is gone and so much competitive fun - not casual fun.
Eh, the format is way too fast today for Braids to be relevant.
And yet new braids is honestly stronger than OG braids which is kinda funny imo
Its so funny to see them wonder about Library of Alexandria.
How can you even think that a combo like the one you mantioned of Biorhythm is remotely good? This card is garbage and doesnt need to be banned
i can’t believe these guys don’t understand why Gifts Ungiven is actually banned lol but at face value it’s still good though.
Tolarian Academy being banned and Gaias Cradle being unbanned is the best argument I can think of for why the CRC should be disbanded because they are do-nothing group of nobodies that don't do anything. Once a year or two they'll sanction a ban on a card like Hullbreacher that the community is freaking out about. They will *never* actually even attempt to balance the format to encourage diversity.
We are already deep into a new era where commander decks are just 99 staples and a flavor card. If the CRC was serious they would ban ALL mana positive rocks including Sol Ring, and they would ban ALL mana positive lands including temple of the false god, and they would ban the two tutors that exile your library to combo with Thoracle.
What a big stupid joke.
The RC is free labor for WOTC. Without it WOTC would have to pay people to be in charge of the B&R list. Do you really think that WOTC curating the format would be better for it?
My man really out here seething about Temple of the False God? lmao
Um... Aren't all lands mana positive?
@@brianlinden3042 lmfao
not temple :( ive literally never heard anyone propose a temple ban. most ppl dont even play it
If protean hulk is the problem, why not ban protean hulk instead of flash? It’s just an extra card they have to ask “will this break protean hulk”
I think it's because you can do fun things with hulk (in theory), whereas nobody is doing anything fair with flash.
Basically, because some people are doing things like fetching 3 rat colonies, and hulk isn't causing problems in enough games to warrant stopping those people from using the card.
Last time i checked, mana cost for flash was just 2.
Golos is annoying and definitely should've been banned, especially after The World Tree became a thing. His commander tax is effectively reduced by 1, he doesn't require mana fixing to cast, and only needs 7 mana per activation to establish a threatening board state. On top of that, I can't count how many games ended because the person across from me simply drew maskwood nexus and sacrificed the world tree with it out.
Why print the card if you can't play them
The people who print the cards and ban the cards are actually two separate entities in the case of Commander!
I beat Iona with a mono green deck. I was the only green player on board and they named green. Elves should be banned over Iona…
Poor Braids. I wish i could play her in 99
Jeah, Black Lotus and Mox's would be auto include in all my Commander decks.
Good old Yarok sylvan Promordial…
i played Prophet of Kruphix in standard, 4 of them, i miss her xD
Watched the whole video but maybe I missed it, did the Nerds talk about why Wish effects are banned? That category of ban is hotly debated in my playgroup
I think it comes from the base rules of commander, cards in no form can come outside of the game, its not like that because it’s op or anything, just the rules from when it was made. My friends let me play the card Legion Angel, even though that’s not supposed to work
@@ryanchristenson1059 Right, our debates are why that reasoning should/shouldn't exist. As wishes aren't on the actual ban-list, they are just ruled as nonfunctioning. The pro-wishes player dislikes how it sets the standard for disallowing the mechanic in pickup games.
because commander dont have a side board
no side boards in edh thats why
They're not banned are they? I believe you can cast one, it resolves and does nothing.
someone played shahrazad in a 6 person commander game with a hive mind on board. we were so pissed
Oh shit.
"rightfully banned" says the dude with faded blue hair as if his opinion is greater than yours
Unban Golos, Embrakul, and Paradox Engine!
t1 Tinker into Paradox Engine or Bolas' Citadel just might win on turn 1.