So if we kill him in the living world but don't follow him yo the afterlife... rinse and repeat, you're stopping the end of the world and the enslavement of the world as well.
I love your videos, this was such a cool new way to think about it! One thing I didn't hear directly mentioned but that adds a huge amount of credence to your theory is this: Paarthunax states that dragons essentially violently debate philosophy, right? Well, that's glaring in light of the fact that the final shout you need to defeat Alduin is Dragonrend. The very essence of mortality, which dragons can't comprehend. Your Dragonborn defeats Alduin by screaming End or Death at Alduin. Given your philosophy wins, I'm confident you madlads are exactly right, your character represents Akatosh trying to clean house.
Ever notice how there's no limit to how much food you can eat at once in Skyrim, while time is frozen no less? It's The Dragonborn who will eat the world.
I remember master Angeir said something similar to the dragonborn after the battle. That since we did not absorb Alduin's soul, he might return to do his destiny of world eating someday.
People love to trash on the last gentation of Bethesda dev team but the whole “philosophy/battle/voice” trifecta is so poetically awesome… My boy Phaarth deserves a fckin podcast
I agree bro, that’s a really deep take on conversion, I would assume those who complained about it don’t understand how a powerful argument feels like combat of wit and defense of your values and morals
There was once a theory I saw on Reddit a long time ago which explained skyrims story well. Alduin isn't doing his duty as the world eater and instead builds himself an empire and for that reason Akatosh wanted to punish Alduin and created the first Dragonborn Miraak. But Miraak didn't fullfill his destiny and chose his own path like he says which results into the nordic rebellion using an elder scroll to banish Alduin because Miraak didn't join them. Miraak himself states that he was asked by the heroes to help them but he had other plans. When Alduin returns and tries to build his empire again, Akatosh created the last Dragonborn to do what Miraak didn't in the past. Punishing Alduin for his attempt to rule over Mundus instead of fullfillong his duty as the world eater.
@@CIoudStriker my DB grows insane with power, becomes the empress, crushes her enemies and reshapes Tamriel.....ooooohhhh wait!!! I heard this before! I'm becoming Talos! OH NOOOOOO!!!!
Yeah I'm pretty sure this was heavily implied by Aldiuns soul not being absorbed by us. I always kind of felt like maybe killing him was a destined mistake on the part of the dragonborn
Is it a mistake though? It's literally divine intervention and much more poetic and fitting, at least for me. Also if Lordran is anything to go by, I have no wish to see an age pushed to eternity.
I mean, I wouldn't call it a mistake. Sure, *MAYBE* Akatosh was just using us to stop Alduin, steal his power and then proceed to ending the kalpa. But it's not like Alduin winning would've been a good outcome either, he would be a tyrant rulling over everyone
Without Alduin ending the world, maybe it would age and rot but never be reborn. Eventually becoming useless to even the gods. And since they're part of the world that would suck for them too. Every world ends sooner or later including Earth. But in TES they seem to have an immortal world as long as it gets reborn. I think it wasn't a mistake at all. I always assumed that a world one day ended by a dragon was better than a world ruled by a dragon forever. Especially one that was never meant to rule to begin with.
Do also consider that, as you said, Alduin and The Last Dragonborn can essentially be seen as Akatosh having an internal debate about the fate of the Kalpa. If such is the case, well The Last Dragonborn retains individuality, so they might be able to bring peace to Akatosh's fractured mind by standing their ground. They already bested Alduin, which is a victory both of might and of philosophy, so perhaps they could go on to debate/fist fight Akatosh and essentially mantle him. Shouldn't be too difficult, considering they're already part of him.
This would actually be fucking awesome. It would also allow the elder scrolls universe to retain some semblance of consistent time, as between dragon breaks, chim and gods fucking with time itself, time currently means next to nothing lol. And also, to take your theory further, what happens if a kalpa never ends? Does it just wait until the godhead wakes? Elder scrolls lore is fucking wild.
@@imhavingastrokepleasehelp I've studied the lore for about ten years now and there's still so much that I don't know. Like, the fact that the FudgeBois know the names of family lines and shit off the top of their heads is impressive to me. I personally don't care much for that stuff though, and I don't really like the godhead thing either. The idea of an unending Kalpa though, it would be interesting to see the ramifications. There's strong evidence that magic is strongest at the beginning and end of a Kalpa, so I wonder if it would simply continue to decline for all eternity, or even die out entirely? Maybe magic would change in order to survive? It's definitely an idea I'm gonna explore lol
@@mjag2834 You're gonna have to run that one past me one more time. I don't know who Kismet is, nor what the Thereafter is, nor how Karma plays into The Elder Scrolls universe.
@@oliverholm3973 could potentially be canon on how the elder scrolls becomes more like our world, as with an infinite kalpa magic just becomes myth and legend, could connect es and fallout, which would explain some of the more questionable stuff in fallout. Also that’s awesome you’ve studied this lore for so long, I have too for a couple years and I gotta say, learning about shit that isn’t real is WAY MORE FUN. ES LORE>REAL LIFE LORE
Consider that one of the keys in defeating Alduin was the use of Dragon Rend shout, which forces the dragons, an immortal being, to understand mortality. In mortality, there is a birth and an end. And also maybe think about why the player character is called the LAST dragonborn. This is too much of a coincidence.
So we shout the concept of finality into his skull so hard his brain strokes out and he's forced to land and become woundable? Takes mind fuck to a whole new meaning. I find it funny that two dragons fighting are physically and verbally beating their ideals into each other until the other submits.
@@oka1424 For all the shit i give skyrim and bethesda the Thu'um is still one of the coolest power concepts ive seen. To basically alter reality by just saying something in a divine tongue and meaning it. My headcannon (since i dont know the real lore) is the words themselves dont really matter its just a vehicle for you shaping your will unto the world. They just happen to be in dragon speak since this power is innate to them and they are born already understanding how to make their will real So when one wishes to learn this concept they obviously learn it in their language, but they could probably use the common speak of tamriel to achieve the same effect.
@@thedoomslayer5863 I agree, it is one of the coolest and most creative concepts I've seen. You aren't far off from the real lore, but so far we haven't seen anyone using the Thu'um in another language, since it is pretty much tied to dragons themselves, but who knows? Maybe someone like the Dragonborn could make it possible.
@@oka1424 Yeah it reminds me of a concept i forget the origin of but the idea is to "speak with meaning" where no word is empty or devoid of intent such that you can speak things into being. Except the thu'um seems more like the words just being a vehicle for your will being imposed on the real world and changing reality. I could go on some long philosophical tangent but i always wondered what "the language of God" would sound like and the thu'um seems to be something like that, or at least inspired by something like that.
Skyrim condensed: (Side-quest-less version) Special magic boy learns how to shout at dragons in their own language, wins against the strongest dragon by stumping him in a philosophical shouting match, because philosophy and fighting are the same to dragons…thus convincing the dragon to destroy the world, as was his original purpose.
Your verbal argument was so intense you ripped him to physical pieces leaving only his soul now sent back to akatosh like some wrong Amazon delivery to be rebuilt to serve his real purpose
This gets me thinking. Imagine a timeline where the Dragonborn and Alduin start off as enemies only to become unlikely allies. Imagine the character development as Alduin goes from an irresponsible tyrant to a humbled monarch. And the Dragonborn grapples with the reality he was never meant to save the world. If both agree to shirk their duties, Akatosh would be forced to birth a new hero destined to fell both the World Eater and the Dragonborn. Their fight would be legendary.
@@daedhrogon7946 it is prophesied that you play the last and final Dragonborn. A blatant disregard of his plans would throw serious wrench into his divine progress, and being unable to get his first born and last Dragonborn to fight, would most likely mean he might have to step in and settle it himself.
@Marlow that would be cool to experience in game. The only "God fight" you really see is when Martin Semptim became the aspect of akatosh during the Oblivion crisis against Mehrunes Dagon. But my initial point was more of a question of would Akatosh choose to create a second "last" dragonborn to finish what the first "last" dragonborn failed to do? Just a thought. But I like your theory more. Akatosh just appearing on Mundus like "yeah, it's over."
Every time I would kill Alduin, I liked to say something along the lines of "hey Alduin, dad told me to me to get you so you guys can have a talk" then I pretend that Akatosh locked him in his room until he promised to be a good world destroyer
The prophecy of the Dragonborn has always bugged me for a long time, especially the last part. "The World-Eater wakes, and the Wheel turns upon the Last Dragonborn." For a while, I used to believe that it was the fate of the Dragonborn to slay Alduin but thinking about it. It never really said that. It just said that when Alduin wakes, it will be up to the Last Dragonborn to decide the fate of the world. But all this about Akatosh punishing Alduin so the world can actually end makes me wonder more that if all those events that were in the prophecy were Akatosh's doing so that the world would end but halted at the Last Dragonborn. To let him/her decide if the world will end or not. To let Alduin rule once again or to kill him. But likely, Akatosh may have always hinted at people's minds that it was the Dragonborn's duty to kill Alduin even though it never said. So that when the Dragonborn, unsure about who or what it means, meets these people, they are convinced of the only path that Akatosh has been hinting for thousands of years.
This could actually tie into the theory I left on your last fan theory video. Maybe Alduin was coropted by the creation of Akatosh in the middle dawn. Supposedly with what was done during the dragon break, the universe was partially rewritten. It may be possible that Alduin was originally created by Auri-el to end Lorkhans world, but the middle dawn corrupted and severed Auri'el, and Akatosh mantled time and dragons. Due to Alduin being rewritten to first born of Akatosh his purpose was less clear, as Akatosh does not seem to want to necessarily end the world. This changed from destruction to domination. Akatosh being a conflicted diety though, saw fit to probably end that domination as he had already spread much of his influence and did not need to conquer beliefs.
I don't think that theory would hold, because when you line up the lore especially all that i have read. Say They herald Shor as a trickster and son of Sithis this falls flat and is disproven through Shor's direct hate and Tsun wrath to any claiming to be of the brotherhood seeking to pass the bridge, the line goes with player first then tsun. Player. "By right of blood. I Listen for the Night Mother." (Dark Brotherhood) Tsun. "You trespass here, shadow-walker. Shor does not know you. Perhaps before the end you will earn the right to pass this way. Welcome I do not offer, but your errand I will not hinder, if my wrath you can withstand." Shor is the all maker or at least Tall papa. Shor mirrors tall papa in one instance smacking Alduin satakal with a big stick because he was devouring the lesser spirits(Nords) in one of the old games Shor was supposedly the head Deity and the others the ones that became the 8 divines were usurpers who stole his throne, but my point is a fact that meridia Restrained and Restrains the dragon causing time to flow Linear she is the reason he bites his own tail and when he bit his heart he died but metaphorically meaning the hunger became Alduin so when he shed "Gave birth" to Alduin whom was probably mothered by Mara Kynes handmaiden, and our boy pelinal? he is related to Akatosh to further this Records on Pelinal's maddness "And it is said that he emerged into the world like a Padomaic, that is, borne by Sithis and all the forces of change therein. Still others, like Fifd of New Teed, say that beneath the Pelinal's star-armor was a chest that gaped open to show no heart, only a red rage shaped diamond-fashion, singing like a mindless dragon, and that this was proof that he was a myth-echo, and that where he trod were shapes of the first urging. Pelinal cared for none of this and killed any who would speak god-logic, except for fair Perrif, who he said, "enacts, rather than talks, as language without exertion is dead witness." When those soldiers who heard him say this stared blankly, he laughed and swung his sword, running into the rain of Kyne to slaughter their Ayleid captives, screaming, "O Aka, for our shared madness I do this! I watch you watching me watching back! Umaril dares call us out, for that is how we made him!" [And it was during] these fits of anger and nonsense that Pelinal would fall into the Madness, where whole swaths of lands were devoured in divine rampage to become Void, and Alessia would have to pray to the Gods for their succor, and they would reach down as one mind and soothe the Whitestrake until he no longer had the will to kill the earth in whole. And Garid of the men-of-ge once saw such a Madness from afar and maneuvered, after it had abated, to drink together with Pelinal, and he asked what such an affliction felt like, to which Pelinal could only answer, "Like when the dream no longer needs its dreamer." So either Akatosh and Pelinal are one and the same or he is an aspect of Akatosh and when someone likened him to shor or being a shezzarine he spit at the people telling them not to Profane that name. So Aka and Pelinal revere him to some degree Honestly the nords are closer than any other race to the truth since ysgramor spoke often with Shor. Shor to ysgramor - And the Fox spake, saying, "Know thou, mortal, that I am Shor, and this was nary Hare, but indeed, Herma Mora, who did nearly trick thee into becoming of Elvenkind. Rely you hereafter, mortal, upon the forthright methods of Man, and eschew the tricks of the Elves, lest ye become one. Now, go-for the White Stag awaiteth thee in the vale. And The nords also record the elven gods not as gods but as Elven Giants that realizing they couldn't win fled with Shor's heart.
@@Wraith779 Crazy idea here(and this has to do with the elder scrolls 6)... but what if the next hero of nirn is the one that kills the gods? It almost makes sense if u think about it. It's almost like Bethesda was leaving us a crumb trail to figure out that the gods aren't exactly all they're cracked up to be. I mean seriously, think about it, if the mortals of Nirn came to understand that their gods were working against them, they would rebel(surprise surprise). And not only does the theory in *this* video hold that up, but what everyone is saying about the divines and how they simply use the kalpas to show that they r divine, makes it feel like they don't want our worlds to last. In fact, I don't even think our world was supposed to make it to the second era even... Which brings me back to the point of mortals rebelling. It would be the perfect story imo, a cycle in which gods create and destroy worlds to keep divinity, only for the world they wish to destroy, refuse to end... Damn now I wanna see the gods be killed off in the next games XD
@@Wraith779 for the first part I would say that if Shor is born from Sithis, he would not have to accept or follow him, or show any semblance of affection. Just because some dude is friends with my dad, does not mean he is welcome in my house. As far as Pelinal and Shor and Akatosh, admittedly I may not be fully brushed up on my lore, but he could be a champion of shor/shezzarine. Someone who is truly devote, or champion would be loathe to be called that which they hold on high, and consider it blasphemy. And according to Khajiit myth Akatosh and Lorkhan/Shor would be brothers, so calling his name in battle to fight alongside would not be strange. The final point for this is that the middle dawn dragon break happened post Pelinal, and in the lore it says rewriting the universe is messy. I take that as a way to say that the past has been slightly rewritten and smashed together to make some form of sense, but don't look at it.
@@Feathertusk But from the Lore there was only a few Unaffected by the dragon break Nords Khajiit and Dunmer, the real tribunal protected the dunmer Shor kept the nords from being affected, But we know for a fact the nords were unaffected because of Wulfharth when he decided to take the Orcs as allies it reads as followed before the Battle of Red Mountain, Ysmir Wulfharth said to the reticent Nordic troops, "Don't you see where you really are? Don't you know who Shor really is? Don't you know what this war is?" This was purportedly referring to their presence within the Dragon Break of the Red Moment. And here we have this from the same place The fourth song of King Wulfharth tells of his rebirth. The Dwarves and Devils of the eastern kingdoms had started to fight again, and the Nords hoped they might reclaim their ancient holdings there because of it. They planned an attack, but then gave up, knowing that they had no strong King to lead them. Then in walked the Devil of Dagoth, who swore he came in peace. Moreover, he told the Nords a wondrous thing: he knew where the Heart of Shor was! Long ago the Chief of the Gods had been killed by Elven giants, and they ripped out Shor's Heart and used it as a standard to strike fear into the Nords. This worked until Ysgramor Shouted Some Sense and the Nords fought back again. Knowing that they were going to lose eventually, the Elven giants hid the Heart of Shor so that the Nords might never have their God back. But here was the Devil of Dagoth with good news! The Dwarves and Devils of the eastern kingdom had his Heart, and this was the reason for their recent unrest. The Nords asked the Devil of Dagoth why he might betray his countrymer so, and he said that the Devils have betrayed each other since the beginning of time, and this was so, and so the Nords believed him. The Tongues sung Shor's ghost into the world again. Shor gathered an army as he did of old, and then he sucked in the long-strewn ashes of King Wulfharth and remade him, for he needed a good general. But the Devil of Dagoth petitioned to be that general, too, and he pointed out his role as the blessed harbinger of this holy war. So Shor had two generals, the Ash King and the Devil of Dagoth, and he marched on the eastern kingdoms with all the sons of Skyrim. I don't know why they trusted Dagoth of all the elves he was the least trust worthy smh
@@KnightFury-uc9yk Not quite though it'd be interesting it'd only be well if it was the usurpers, The reason alessian practice died in Skyrim is because of Wulfharth who became an aspect of Shor Ysmir dragon of the north, Now Shor being the original Chief of the Divine his wife Kyne and kyne's hand maiden Mara as well as Jhunal Stuhn and Tsun were the ones the Nords and atmoran's followed and were descendants of. Shor being the most adamant and guarding the men of nirn and most importantly his people the nords, nords being one of the most OP races their voices before the abused the power and had it taken or rather made harder to learn, could take out Armies with one nord the main pretenders that keep men and mer from going further was Trinimac Akatosh Xarses or rather Arkay as he is now, mainly the elven giants Stendar was Stuhn so he is good if Shor don't mind since it's stendars skeleton that makes up the bridge to the halls of valor. It'd be more interesting if it was Shor reclaiming all the land took from him and his people, with him then revealing the truth behind his dethroning and the reclaiming of atmora from the eternal frost. Or if it turned out the Gamer was Tall papa XD and Shor was justing helping you out the whole time waiting for you to fix everything lol
I've been making a DnD campaign based in the setting of the elder scrolls, and your videos that make the dauntingly huge amounts of lore easily digestible has made making the world lore accurate infinitely more easy. So thank you.
Great theory! It ties in nicely with the Redguard's understanding of the gods and their interactions with the changing kalpas. They perceive the world cycles as an infinite snake consuming it's own tail, shedding it's skin at the turn of a new kalpa. It was Tall Papa, the Redguard time god, who learned how to walk between the skins of the world-snake and preserve himself and the other gods through the world cycles. So in a sense, Akatosh/Tall Papa/Auriel and his divinity is (in part) defined by his ability to persist through the kalpas. In the context of the dreamsleeve, this is Akatosh's sense of chim in that he can continue to exist in the face of impossibility. The context of the gods divinity is lost if time were to have no end, and especially to a time god fulfilling this cycle is essential to his divine nature. The Elder Scrolls is absolutely crazy, I love that a series of games can provoke these insane lore discussions that we're still talking about (even in the absence of a mainstream TES game in over a decade). I can't wait for TES6 to finally come around and give us more to talk about.
Agreed, can’t wait for TES6. If there’s anything to take from previous Elder Scroll games, when TES6 comes out, we’ll have lore & mysteries to talk about for another several years too. I’m just so stoked to see more of Elder Scrolls universe.
@@wessmoore7894 The Monomyth (in-game) is the source for that myth about Tall Papa and the world-skins. I'd also recommend reading over the Book Of Circles as it's the central text of the Redguard culture. Out of game, the UESP is a fantastic source and usually includes links to any relevant in-game books. I'd definitely go have a look around there
I end up doing it every single time. Can't help it, being the chosen one with the soul of a dragon who can scream at people to death is too badass not to accept
After hearing Michael talk with such a chill tone/voice on the podcast I never think its him narrating videos cuz he’s got such a different energy in his “video voice” lol i guess thats the power of being a professional youtuber 😂
I've always said that the LDB is Akatosh's way of telling Alduin, "You have one purpose. You did not do it. Return to Me and I will remake you so that you will complete My will." Alduin is supposed to clear the way for the new kulpa, not start building empires. Using a Dragonborn as the weapon of last resort is the only way to reset the World Eater by turning him off and on again as a sort of hard reboot. The End of the World is back on schedule.
This whole theory sits way too comfortably on the presumption that Alduin's trip forward in time is a simply a short timeout from his perspective. It may very well have been a torturous experience, he could have felt like he was in there for eons. He was essentially outside time, so there's no way we could know without some in-game sources
I feel like it would moreso be experienced as a memory, where physically it felt instantaneous but simultaneously once free and back in a dimesion beholden to time you remember existing out of time for what assumedly would feel like eternity.
I would imagine it felt like suddenly jolting awake when you didn't realize you were asleep; like the throat of the world dissapeared and reappeared around him in an instant.
I think that is a fair point by the OP. Paartunax says that dragons are not affected by time as humans are. I would assume that Alduins rule would be defined by an area/space that he controlled for a certain time. When you eliminate Alduin from time for several era's, it would feel like a humiliation of giving him era's during which he can do/dominate anything. Adding insult to injury, when Alduin returns, the area/space doesn't look like anything like it was back in the day. So in that way, the ancient Nords took away everything for alduin. That must have been an insane humiliation. Now consider that Alduin is part of Akatosh and that part has a traumatic experience. When Nirm and time was created, Akastosh acted like a control freak and create Alduin and other to control the time and the (beginning and end) of the kalpa. However the creation of Alduin and Miraak all refused to play their role as intended by the gods. (The creatures of) Nirn is a world that rebelled against its creators. If the grip of Alduin/Akatosh on the world is ruined once again by the Dragonborn, why would Alduin/Akatosh still defend and keep the current world? Maybe Nirm should be recreated and a new kalpa is upon us.
Was it a doorway from one year to another year? Step through it and you traverse a millenia in an instant. Or was it a sinkhole prison that sucked Alduin in and kept him imprisoned until a millenia later when the door would open again? Could be either. The graphic scene we're shown doesn't show much. Two problems I have with the entire story are 1) If Partysnaks had been camped on the Throat of the World waiting for Alduin's return, why didn't he do anything when Alduin returned? He didn't fight Alduin. He didn't tell the Greybeards. He didn't summon the Dragonborn. He didn't do anything but sit up there to be talked to. Epic fail. The Partysnaks have gone stale. 2) How does anyone from before know anything about when Alduin would return? Or *IF* he will return. Obviously he wasn't killed outright having been sucked through the portal, but that didn't tell them anything about the 4th Era. Definitely not enough to write books about the return or to make a mural about what would happen when he returned.
Great video, although this concept is nothing new. After defeating Alduin, if you talk to Arngeir he tells you that you didn’t save the world but delayed the destruction of the Kalpa. Which is why you didn’t absorb Alduin. Alduin still has his destiny to fulfill. Before you fight Alduin, if you talk to Arngeir he tells you that maybe you are not suppose to defeat Alduin because the time line must unwind when it becomes too twisted. The world must end for the new one to be born.
My thing has always been "If the world was supposed to end now, then why did Akatosh send the one person who can stop Alduin" Whether Aldiun had strayed too far from his path and we set him back on it, or we merely delayed the inevitable destruction of the world, it matters not if Akatosh didn't want Alduin stopped, he could have just not made a new Dragonborn. So yeah, we were supposed to defeat Alduin, just maybe not permanently. Who knows, it could be hundreds of thousands of years before the Kalpa is actually supposed to end,
Parthurnax speculates to the dragon born that he may be aiding the end, as seen when he talks about those who want to save the world often end up speeding up the end.
Gotta appreciate how while you're saying "the average citizen of Skyrim" (03:50), the camera pans to Hogni Red-Arm, a straight-up psycho cannibal flesh trader, staring down a customer.
I have a feeling that time in the Elder Scrolls universe has to restart cause if the same cycle keeps going time might start to break on it's own since each cycle of time isn't meant to continue forever
Akatosh might be the one Tamriel needs saving from, according to this theory. Maybe Skyrim would be better ruled by the world-eater than Stormcloak rebels and Imperial loyalists because at least Alduin's domination would unite the Nords, one way or another.
Another way of looking at it is Akatosh and Lorkhan seem to be fighting over the same power. There is lots of evidence that the Last Dragonborn is a Shezzarine, meaning that they are literally a manifestation of not one, but two gods. These two ancient foes seem to be fighting over control of Time itself. Perhaps Akatosh seeks to use the Dragonborn to ensure the Kalpa will end, while Shor seeks to influence them into protecting the world he created.
@@georgemurdock7670 Tsun clearly shows disdain for the Dragonborn if he presents himself as the Dark Brotherhood leader. I don't think the Lorkhan-Sithis link can be held in that regard
This has basically been my head cannon for a long time. I never understood the idea of why Alduin would all of a sudden decide he needs to end the world when he was simply thrown forward in time. It also makes the Skyrim story soooooo much better.
Makes you wonder if dragons do battle with their voices, debate and combat being the same to them, and if you the Dragonborn do the same with them, then when you use the dragonrend shout against Alduin, are you winning the debate of mortality and the finite world. Pretty interesting when it’s out that way.
That's an interesting way to put it. However I think the point of dragonrend is that it's a concept dragons cannot understand. From what we know there are no dragon eggs in Elder scrolls. All dragons have always existed and always will. The only way for them to die is to be absorbed by the dragonborn. The dragonborn is a mortal who has a birth and a death. The dragonborn will one day grow old and feeble. The inherent fragility of life leading to its inevitable end is a concept an inherently mighty and immortal being like a dragon cannot comprehend so its like making a point in a debate that totally stumps your opponent to use dragonrend. It momentarily confuses them and brings them crashing out of the sky because mortality is something they cannot understand.
Maybe, but when playing the game you get the feeling that as dragonborn you can use the Thu'um but don't necessarily understand it. Shouting becomes something you can do because you absorb dragon souls, but the deeper meaning behind the shouts to which the Greybeards dedicate a lifetime of study is something that's lost on the dragonborn.
@@timothycain8639 I can see that when its put that way. In a way its strange how beings immortal are always meddling with mortals, but when the mortals interfere back at them most if not all immortals dont know how to stop it.
Akatosh was broken though. He was reprogrammed during a dragon break sometime back right? Corrupted from his original purpose so that he would side with, and protect, humanity.
Is it really corruption or an inevitable character progression caused by the interplay between gods and their mortal worshippers over time? Time changes all things, even gods and how mortals perceive them. Relationships like these have a tendency to change both parties, both in real life and in mythology. Even if one ignores the variables of mortal worship and perception, should it really come as a surprise that gods should change their minds and be internally conflicted?
@@Xbalanque84 But he was specifically targeted and altered unnaturally, as a matter of artifice from the Marukati Selective. We’re still not entirely sure how far that goes, but it must at least be considered that Akatosh is behaving in a manner outside his natural state. I agree that what you are proposing would be sensible, for a God to change their nature due to a change in their worshippers perceptions over time, but in this case I don’t think we can assume that. This God has been deliberately sabotaged, and we can’t just ignore the fact out of hand because it benefits mankind. It’s possible that because of this alteration he doesn’t intend to allow for the next World to be born at all. It may even have been HE who turned Alduin into the twisted form he was specifically to prevent him from fulfilling his duty.
@@Neuviletteiudexofmemes Akatosh exists because people believe he does for long enough and Akatosh existed before the selective. It was just that the selective wanted to separate the elven aspects from it and caused a dragon break.
@@TheMeestLord We ASSUME all that was done was the removal of the Elvin aspects. But we don’t know the full scope of what they did. It could very well be the alteration to Akatosh is what caused Alduin to be retroactively corrupted. Messing with the god could have had any number of consequences, and we don’t know the full scope of their intentions.
@@Neuviletteiudexofmemes Akatosh/Auri-El (Time) and Shor/Lorkhan (Space) in particular are rather well defined compared to the other original spirits. With the former allowing the original spirits to stabilize and the latter being the one who convinced others for the creation of Mundus. Those are two of the original spirits that would prefer not to have tampered with. As they are from entities with a higher plane of existence. Of course considering that Dragons has a compulsion to dominate it begs a question about Akatosh/Auri-El.
I did a playthrough of the main story this past summer and definitely got the vibe that we were setting the world up for destruction as opposed to saving it it's a tricky decision for the dragonborn though, seeing as how if you refrain from getting involved, then any blood spilt by the dragons is indirectly on your hands, and we know that there will be an abundance of bloodshed. The world as we know it will be over whether or not you kill Alduin, it's just a matter of when and by what means
At Helgen, Alduin sits atop the tower and look YOU in the eyes. He knows he traveled in time (banished by men) and when he is ready to take Skyrim for himself, continuing what he was doing in the ~past~ he faces the dragonborn. I imagine he must be pissed. 5 seconds away he was ready to make Skyrim his empire, now he sees someone with power enough to stop him (Akatosh sent), he believes what he was doing was Gods will but that same God sent a human/beast race to stop him? If I was him I would super pissed. I my playthrough my Dragonborn becames insane with power, the same that happened to Alduin, since dragons are powerhungry and the Dragonborn is a dragon stuck in the body of a mortal. (sorry for bad english)
I assumed he looked at you for the same reason all NPC's look at you when you're near them and there not talking to someone else. Also, didn't he attacked helgan to prevent ulfric's death so the war would continue and he could eat the soul's of the warriors of sovernguard?
@@sleven1160 in my opinion, the way he inclines his head directly towards you shows he can sense your dragon soul. When you meet him at Kynesgrove he calls you Dovahkiin, but at Helgen there were no mentions of your power and you only met him there, before Kynesgrove. It proves to me he can feel you and sense in you the dragon soul. At Sovngarde he devoures the soul of nords, all of the ones that are not inside the Hall of Valor. If you didn't die an honorable death but you are nord, you go to Sovngarde but you're not allowed to go to the Hall.
@@uncreativename2979 Maybe you become the next emperor of Tamriel and Alduin returns to end your time, given you were send to Skyrim to stop him, not for taking power to yourself.
This also made me consider how anyone who actually understood dragons was warning against killing Alduin (Greybeards, Partysnax, etc) but the ones who were for it were generally myth fearing Nords. IMO Alduin should have been banished for another Era, it seems like that was the safest route before and it worked for a long time. It would have been a bit better than allowing his soul to escape at least.
I still have many questions about the main story, mostly having to do with Shor. We know he wants the DB to fight Alduin and in general we know the DB is held in high regard in Sovngarde, but what exactly does Shor want? Does he support the DB because he also wants Alduin remade so a new kalpa can begin, or is it just that he doesn't want the warriors he's gathered to be devoured? Basically, what's Shor's role in all of this and what exactly does he want?
It would seem to me that Shor would not want Mundus, his creation, destroyed. To that end, he would send TLDB to kill the World Eater. He's dead, so he may not be "in the loop" on Alduin..? However, the kalpic cycle encompasses far more than Mundus, but the whole Aurbis. Perhaps even Shor recognizes that while he may want to protect Mundus, the kalpa must end at some point. Perhaps the end of the kalpa would bring about his resurrection, and he could try again? These are just random thoughts I had after reading your comment, I haven't really put thought into it to have a coherent theory
Shor doesn't have consciousness. He was killed by the other divines. The closest thing to Shor is Talos. Talos is sort of like a reincarnation of Shor.
@Forest New i disagree, given that the Nords in Sovngarde specifically say Shor isnt present on his throne because he would blind the mortal LDB or something like that, indicating physical, conscious presence ( in the aetherial realm of sovngarde at least)
@Forest New in fact, all dialogue in Sovngarde regarding Shor indicates he has conscious will. Ordering the warriors not to confront Alduin, Tsun's dialogue, Shor's conspicuous absence and the explanation given for it...
@@stveloth694 I'm with you, especially the part about Shor possibly being resurrected with a new kalpa. Basically the history of Shor and Akatosh, especially their relation to the races of men (or at least to the Nords), is pretty screwy.
I'm not much of a theory crafter myself but I love watching your videos and this actually blows my mind. I support this theory big time! Alduin and The Dragonborn are the physical representations of two philosophies held by Akatosh who has D.I.D. (Dissociative Identity Disorder). It's pretty much two aspects of Akatosh debating over the fate of the kalpa. Essentially we the player character are a part of Akatosh himself! :D
I still don't understand how people thought that Alduin would end the world. The loading screens directly say that if the dragons would return they would build there old empire again.
I think because Esbern was convinced Alduin was going to destroy the world, people just ran with that. Alduin, unlike Dagoth Ur or Mankar Camaron, doesn't get that moustache twirling moment where he explains his evil scheme, so people assume Esbern's interpretation of Alduin's Wall is correct.
I'm partially fond of the thought that you are Alduin's executioner. Though a different theory, what if you are part of Akotash? You mentioned that Akotash is a mixture between the god of creation and the dragon of destruction. By killing the dragons you are essentially creating a new world where people can thrive without dragons. When you finally die, I presume that the dragon souls you've "consumed" may wonder once more and come back in a later Era to bring an end to civilization.
Better yet: what if the souls you consumed all become part of Alduin? Maybe Alduin failed to devour the world because he wasn't vast and powerful enough. So if he was unified with most of dragonkind prior to his reincarnation, then the new Alduin would be a truly deific force for destruction. And the Dragobborn helps him get there, by collecting the souls of all the dragons and killing Alduin so he can reform stronger than ever.
Make a walkthrough where dragonborn do all the positive and good quest at first, and then after defeating Aulduin he realise all this. He slowly becomes corrupted and starts doing all the evil quests, and at last he became a vampire to live forever to stop the inevitable.
Does this make Alduin the anti-hero of the story like Satan in Paradise Lost? He rejected his role set by his god/creator to instead rule the "lesser" beings known as man.
Question: Satan was the anti-hero in paradise lost…? Is that an ambiguous interpretation or intentional? Looking for more reading material and this sounds intriguing.
Epic theory with a pretty strong backbone. Parthanaxs dialogue really helped me see how they're hinting at that, as well as not absorbing his soul after defeating. Thanks for all the work putting this video together.
This episode looks especially amazing. I know nothing about cinematography or what actually goes into making these kinds of videos because my goblin brain probably couldn’t handle it but wow. Something seems different and I like it💚
I've known this for a good while now tbh. Alduin never planned to devour the world upon his return, just to restore his status quo as overlord of tamriel.
As beautiful as fudgemuppets videos are, in 2022 I'm finally starting to see Skyrim graphically showing its age, even modded. Tbh I'm glad tes 6 has been left so long so hopefully we can all be shocked again like in 2011.
As you grow older you will more and more find graphics to be some of the least important aspects of a game. To this day I play Planescape: Torment, The Baldur's Gate Saga, Fallout 1 & 2, Star Wars KotoR 1 & 2 on PC and even SNES games like Final Fantasy 6, Chrono Trigger, Lufia 2 and many other pretty damn old games. It's not just the nostalgia, it's fantastic characters and relationships, story, dialogue, music, re-playability in various character builds and good or evil decisions that have very significant impacts on how the story develops and how the world changes, some of the awesome raw humor that would be super politically incorrect nowadays which just makes it better and better like a fine wine and more! I respect your opinion, I know, I've been there. Just know, graphics looses value MUCH faster than all the other things mentioned as graphics keep improving and most of the time, the other things become worse and worse. You'll notice this in time unless the industry really changes fundamentally and becomes more driven by gamers rather than businessmen. We shall see! PS. The golden era of video games generally speaking is considered to be from the early 90's to early 2000's when indeed gamers were making the games and big money hadn't corrupted a lot of the industry. If you prioritize graphics over all the other experiences available, you will miss out on some of the absolute best, funniest and most awesome entertainment, stories and thought provocation of all time when it comes to gaming. Like seriously, Final Fantasy 6's story is just amazing and the twists and turns are mind blowing. Has several of the best characters ever made in video gaming history. Fallout 1 & 2 has some of the absolute best comedy you will have ever witnessed in a game, especially if you are familiar with Monty Python. Planescape: Torment is like playing one of the most amazing books ever. The writing is sublime and completely sucks you into the mystery of EVERYTHING as you do not even know who you are, nevermind the strange world around you!
@@screwbigtechsanti-sciencem9438 I agree and I'm not even all that old. I would say PS2 Era and before were by far the best in terms of video games. I make an exception for Fallout New Vegas and Oblivion. Maybe one or two others. Any other "good" game is basically a good sandbox for mods. Like Skyrim and Fallout 4.
First of all, I love watching your videos. Played Skyrim since day 1 and always loved it. I'm sure that I couldn't even come close to your knowledge about the Elder Scrolls Universe, but do you need to mention that 4 times in the first half of the video? 😆
I had not thought of this, but it is an interesting idea. I would love to play a game where this was played out. Being chosen by a god to clear a blockage that is keeping the world from ending. A constant cycle of destruction and rebirth is a nice concept. And what if the end of each cycle is stagnation? Things stagnate, then the end comes and things are reborn, bright and vibrant and new. And, so a god oversees this change. And so, when the agent of change denies their purpose, you are chosen to destroy them. Then a short period of stagnant peace arrives, before the god figures out how to destroy the world and restart the cycle. What would be very cool would be if the game would give you all the signs of the stagnation, in order to enlist the player character's aid in bringing about the destruction. Maybe giving the player character a way to navigate through the end of the world and into the rebirth of the new cycle.
I had this thought after killing Alduin as well, I felt like it was semi validated when Arngeir voiced the same thought. I just hope we can see Atmorra and Akavir maybe even a chance to see other lands that have been described in this Calper before they end it.
Bethesda in short being like: Yo, this has gotten way outa hand, like stuff don’t make no sense. We gotta start over, clean this up, redo Battle of Red Mountain, but this time all the writers need to be in the same room.
My theory is this; the dragonborn is an aspect of akatosh, just as alduin was. the world must end, or at least begin again. since the world left after the dragonborn is so different it has, in fact changed into a different world. This is the reason that all things the dragonborn touches regain balance. i believe that the new kulpa is that of the era in which the god among men, the dragonborn, aspect of akatosh, will rule among men, perhaps not as a king, but as a great balancer and protector.
It’s crazy you make this video so recently, because I have been thinking about the same exact thing as I decided to replay Skyrim, when it’s been about 6 years since I last had. But as someone who’s definitely a lot wiser having lived through a lot in that time, I just wanted to see how I would experience Skyrim again under a new lense. Which I always do with games I haven’t played in a while. Because I almost always do pick up on a lot of things I didn’t before.
imagine if the dragonborn became the next alduin, fated to devour the world he tried to protect probaly doesn't make any sense lore-wise (i have nowhere near enough lore knowledge to make that call), but it's cool idea
Side note: the video clip of the dragon picking someone up, shaking them about like a dog with a new toy, & then flinging them had me laughing! One of my all time favorite memories of any game was being picked up, shook about & flung into a tree! I laughed so hard, in between swearing - lol!
It's a lot like the theory about how Dagon may have intentionally instrumented his own defeat in the Oblivion Crisis, in that I'm not sure if that's the creator's actual intention but they would absolutely run with it because it makes it look like their writing is smarter than it actually is.
@@Drekromancer It's kinda complicated but the idea is that Dagon doesn't actually want to conquer Tamriel, and his actual goal was to do Lorkan a solid by destroying the Septim dynasty when Martin mantles Akatosh, so Akatosh would be forced to actually do his job again instead of just relying on the dragonborn. But it's also a theory that mostly just exists because of how anti-climactic the story of Oblivion feels and how easily Dagon loses even though he could have invaded at any point in the last 900 years. I'm not saying I believe it and I really doubt it was the secret intention of the writers, it's just lorebeards trying to salvage a kind of disappointing narrative.
Alduin: *[Is thefeated and reset back to factory settings]* Akatosh: Yes! Now, when the time comes, he'll finally do as was intended. *[The time comes]* Alduin: Hmm... Why do I have to end the world now? Why not rule instead? Akatosh: . . .
Yes, based mostly on what Parthunax says, I think your explanation of the story is pretty much dead on. Although the Dragonborn does 'save the world' in a shorter term sense of the phrase, since obviously the inhabitants of Skyrim don't have to live under a tyrannical dragon.
I like to think that the Dragonborn is actually the villain of the story. And his purpose is to replace Alduin. But’ll ultimately fail in some way too.
Amazing you used that one podcast theory for an entire video, the concept was great! Also, visually these videos have reached a new level of good, I'm truly impressed! Must be due to Patreon?
if I were to hear something like this back when I first started playing Skyrim, I wouldn’t believe it. But I’ve recently finished playing the dark souls games and now I have a different outlook on these kinds of things. The world must end at some point, the last Dragonborn may only be a pawn to take out a king in a divine game of chess, but it’s not the destination that matters, it’s the journey. The quests and side quests you complete, the spells you learn, the Allies you make, and the cheese wheels you hoard, that’s what truly matters.
So, elder scrolls 6 is set up to be a battle between redguards and wanna-be-world-ender-elves on a cyclical world primed to end. The redguards travelled through time from a broken world/the end of a kalpa to reach tamriel after a war with a massive elven empire. Tall Papa, their lead god, is also their lead god because he figured out how to side-step the end of the world into the next cycle. There is also the quote that says the redguards destroyed yokuda to be able to travel to tamriel. These might all be commonly made connections that I have missed, but it's pretty interesting how the setup matches with the redguard origin story and the cyclical world. It would however be a very, very bold premise to build a game around.
I didn't discover Skyrim until like 5 years after it was out and it was mind blowing. By then everyone was over it but I was just figuring out how to explore.
When the game came out, I was so disappointed to find out that the Dragonborn armor was “tier 1” armor. With how iconic it was even when the game was in its infancy, I thought it would be a lot stronger.
Much is left unexplained in Elder Scrolls lore. Bur perhaps the single most confusing and ambiguous part of the lore is the question of how to draw a logical connection between mortals and gods. Alyssa, a mortal, appears to have exerted a transformational influence over the very identity and purpose of certain gods, while condemning others to obliteration. This sort of intervention induces cognitive dissonance; it wrecks the idea of gods ruling or guiding mortals entirely. Another ambiguity is whether the Eight Diviners stood up by Alyssa are even alive. Must they be, to confer totally automatic blessings upon worshipful mortals? The nature of those blessings is fixed. Canned. Even the breaking of the Amulet of Kings, resulting in Martin Septim becoming an avatar of Akatosh, looks more like a prearranged magical spell than the intervention of a live god, a spell infused into the amulet in the First Era. By Akatosh? A god created by amalgamating two gods into one? Just what the heck *is* a god? And what evidence do we have that they are live, willful beings in contemporary times? Gods seem to be more a reflection of mortal wills than independent entities. Which differentiates gods from Daedra, whose independent existence, prowess and will is demonstrable. I am not enamored of the theory that Alduin is Akatosh, or even that Alduin is a part of Akatosh. I do remember that the lore includes a book hypothesizing this connection, but I think it's one of many red herrings we see in Elder Scrolls lore. Remember that Parthanax, who should know, called Alduin 'first born of Akatosh,' which implies a separate identity, separate will for Alduin. A precursor is required - a god of Time. Alduin is not a god of Time. He does not command Time, but is subject to it. But given the mortal ability to transform gods, could the idea of Alduin being Akatosh, circulating among mortals, lead to transformational effects? Bah, this subject makes my head hurt. :-)
Akatosh always reminded me of Two-Face. And The Fade how choses a Dragonborn is the Coin. Head/Good Side is when the DB stops Alduin and the Bad Side/ Tails is when the DB is killed and Alduin destroy the "current" World. And with every new "Coin flip" the Story begins a new.
Totally my first impression, but who knows. As Akatosh made his covenant with Alessia, maybe he came to apreciate more of Lorkhan's creation, and so choosing many man dragonborn later. Ad the mixture of worshipers and influences, and what Akatosh had in mind for both Alduin and Mundus, may be entirely different now. Personally I'd love to see an incarnated ("not dragonborn") Alduin learning modesty and mortal hardship as a way of penitence.
Both of them are willing to tell lies in order to manipulate Camilla, both are dumb enough to trust a total stranger to be complicit in their subterfuge. But only Sven is needlessly rude to his elderly mother. I gotta go with Faendel
The idea that Alduin could be reformed and sent back to Tamriel to fulfill his purpose could have great tie-ins with the Towers theory and plot. Perhaps the Thalmor learn of this and decide they want to ally with the reformed Alduin to unmake the world.
I can understand the theory, it also makes sence that harkon is defeated, if the sun is closed off then the new alduin wont be able to return, but where does hermaeus mora fit in all of this?
@@georgemurdock7670 no because hermaeus mora, what does he gain from making the dragonborn stronger? Does akatosh abandon him or something? Or doed hermaeus mora want the world to end? Idk I mean if skyrim and the dlcs all are required for alduin to be remade, what does the daedric prince of forbidden knowledge gain? Or whats his role in it?
@@Rex-The-Wolf he wanted to get rid of miraak i think. Also when the world ends his library is just a collection of fan fiction so i always counted him to the more good deadra
@@georgemurdock7670 i know he wants to get rid of miraak, but i mean if this theorys roght and i think it is, what does mora have to gain from turning the last dragonborn into his servant
I'd love it if somebody made a mod where you can join Alduin to restore the dragon cult and his realm. How awsome it would be, especially in combination with mods like Kohnarik's Accoutrements.
But why rebuild Alduin's cult when you can just kill him, then make your own? I mean, after defeating Alduin, you're already treated as a divine hero, and you've got loyal enforcers in the form of Followers and then there's your borderline god-like power with the voice. There's even a mod where you can make your own faction/guild and basically have it's coal be whatever you want.
@@stevenhiggins3055 Because I'd love to back my power up with 50 meter long flying flame throwers. Nothing gets more converts like the threat of being chewed down. Also my character is Atmoran (I have a more or less reasonable explanation for him beimg in the fourth era) and that's the religion he grew up in and to him starting his own cult completely centered around him would be heresy. One could still be a demigod/saint and dragon priest.
Here's a theory I've had for a while that kind of builds upon this one. Yucuda did NOT sink, it was eaten. At the end of the last kalpa Aldwin felt something missing So he pursued this missing mass into our world. After finishing His duties he found himself in a Undefended world ripe for his dominance and the rest is history.
Amazing videos guys, your lore is amazing and I love listening to your videos while playing TES games, and is this video the one from the theory podcast?
I think the most soul crushing realization I came to recently is that at least since the events of The Elder Scrolls III - I've essentially been cleaning up my own mess. Just thinking about it leaves me with an empty feeling inside. A pain deep in my soul - my gamer soul.
I love playing skyrim, I have fun with every ES game actually. But I will say this, the beginning to skyrim is definitely weird. You're crossing the border in a war and captured. Normal. You're brought to a prison camp. Normal. What's your name stranger? Bastard McThuumbreath, of course. Alright, good. Off with his head! Why the fuck did you ask me my name?
I mean Hadvar had a list of all the people captured during the ambush but there was one unaccounted person on the cart you. Hadvar double checks and sees your not on the list but the captain decides to execute you anyway because there’s a decent chance you might be a rebel.
If you were rich enough to have an estate, don't you think the imperials of all people would want to keep you alive? And how is it that Hadvar already had the list of the other three? If four prisoners are picked up don't you think they'd already ask all four of their names? Just saying, slight plot hole.
@@tsaikofilms1851 well, they probably wouldn't want you alive if they assumed you were a rebel, which they would, seeing as you were in the same area as Ulfric. And after they killed you, they would have either given your inheritance to your family, or given it to the imperial government
@@kalyambamhango4548 I think that just proves the Nordic Imperials have a more Nord way of dealing with enemies. Keeping an enemy alive is better way to effect their influence for your cause. Something I would expect from different factions like the Khajiit or Elves. But I can see how the two sides of Skyrim's civil war are forced to such extremes. Dragons are flying around and people might as well be lining up to be beheaded.
It’d be cool if, in a few games time, we hear of Alduins return once again. You could even possibly experience the death of the world. And it’d leave a whole new Kalpa worth of games to make.
Do we even know if Alduin was sent by Akatosh in the first place? He's described both as a form of Akatosh and as the firstborn, perhaps he simply came to mundus of his own volition like a rebellious child, before he was even capable of ending the world, after all for a dragon that's supposed to destroy all of Nirn, he is rather small. Rather than killing him so he can be remade, we simply returned an angsty child to his parent lol
I like this. As a Norse Humanist IRL, and with Skyrim partially being based on Norse mythology and language, this makes the story somewhat play out like a cautionary tale from the Eddas about defying fate, that no matter how strong you are, you are fated for a purpose, and you will fulfill that purpose.
Such great world-building by the writers at Bethesda. As a player, killing dragons just feels like normal RPG fare, and being Dragonborn is the same as being the Chosen One, so it seems pretty generic at first. But then you dig, and find out that you represent one side of Akatosh, and Alduin the other. The player is the creation side, and Alduin is the destruction side. Together, they create a cycle of death and rebirth, just like what Akatosh represents. Also the fact that the old Nords used the Elder Scroll not to trap Alduin for 1000 years, but to actually SEND HIM FORWARD 1000 years because he's a dragon, and they live in the dimension of time, is great consistency in the rules of how dragons and the world work. When you defeat Alduin, everyone is cheering for the Dragonborn, not realizing they still have only delayed the inevitable. Maybe once the Last Dragonborn dies, the roles will switch. The world-eater in the form of man, because of man's consistent daedric worship, and the creator in the form of a dragon on account of the Altmeri/Aedra connection. This Kalpa will end eventually, as Paarthunax foretold, and the dragon crisis is over, that plan didn't work. Maybe Akatosh does something different in the future lore. It would be pretty boring to play ES6 and not learn about how the events of Skyrim changed the pantheon. Nerevarine changed elements of dark elf religion, the Champion of Cyrodiil helped birth Akatosh through Martin Septim and then became Sheogorath, effectively becoming an essential part of history and theology, so I imagine the Last Dragonborn killing Alduin, one of the aetherial gods in the Nordic pantheon would drastically affect both the Nordic religion and the image or worship of Akatosh in other pantheons, like by Imperials. How would an Imperial feel about the events that took place in Skyrim 200 years later? Would they even believe it? How would it change their views on Akatosh?
Thank you for another fun deep dive into Elder Scrolls lore! 💙 In the future, I would love to see a playthrough of Oblivion's Dark Brotherhood questline, as I never got to finish it.
I still believe Alduin was corrupted by Shor when he first entered Sovngarde so Shor could have more time to gather Nord warriors for the Dawn of the next Kalpa and that's why Akatosh had to go through all this trouble to get Alduin back on track to end the Kalpa.
@@georgemurdock7670 Shor is Lorkhan, and he has every reason to want to corrupt Auriel/Akatosh's firstborn. In the Dawn of the current Kalpa he was defeated by Auriel, and his heart torn out and launched into the ocean. Sovngarde is a gathering place for warriors of the Nords, the descendants of the Wandering Ehlnofey that made up his army in the Dawn Era. It's clear he's gathering them up to use them for the next big battle against Auriel, and how better to give himself time to prepare for that battle than to corrupt the being who is meant to bring the end of the current Kalpa and usher in the new one? Causing him to neglect his duty means Lorkhan has plenty of time to gather the best the Nords have to offer before he has to fight Auriel and his elves (descendants of the Old Ehlnofey) again.
"To deny that the world must end is to deny that it began." --Excerpt from Knowing Satakal. Honestly, the whole confusion is just down to people assuming we're being a typical hero and outright saving the world rather than what we're actually doing - preserving the natural order by removing a corrupted element of the usual cycle, which just so happened to be the part that ends the cycle and brings in a new one. We should remember, as TES VI comes out, that we shouldn't expect to be saving the world.
In my game, I was once an Agent of the Empire, I ventured to Daggerfall to solve a conspiracy. I tampered with the Mantella which granted me immortality as a curse and was made an amnesiac. I last remember awaking on a ship bound for Vvardenfell where it turned out that I was once again flung into conspiracy as I became blessed by Azura and mantled the Nerevar to become the hero that the people of this island needed. After I defeated Dagoth Ur and tore down the Tribunal Gods of the Dunmeri people I was hunted by the Daedric Prince Hircine. As I won our contest, Hircine had pointed me Northward, to Akavir... Only, I did not make it to this lost land. Our ship was broken in the Sea of Ghosts. My curse had saved me but again I lost myself to the tides of fate and time. I felt my sanity wane yet I heard of voice. Familiar... Like a dear friend I once had. It guided me to take control only to find myself in prison. I knew not where I was, yet where ever I end up, the Aedra seem bound to torment me with conspiracy. I had returned home only to witness an Emperor be murdered. He was my friend, I remembered only after I watched the blade strike him down. He gave me one last mission as his Agent. Deliver his amulet to a priest. I felt ashamed to have lost so much. My sanity continued to wane. I fought back a Daedric cult to save my dear friend's Empire and keep his only heir safe. Yet in the end I could not hold true to my oath as his heir sacrificed himself to save us all. I lost myself again, only this time to insanity. Like ripe fruit, I was plucked from Tamriel to a new realm. A Daedric Prince had his eyes upon me. Thrust into more conspiracy I walked among the Daedra of this realm until I could no longer walk as myself. I was a pawn to this god. He tricked me to break his curse and forced me to take his place. For many years I was bound to this role. Yet in Oblivion, there are ways to trick fate. For all of my adventures I constantly had to deal with these beings that did not adhere to our rules and law. Padomaic creatures. I embraced this chaos and served the same hand I was dealt to another, it took me many years but I was now free. I was mortal. The fool of a small town, a former Blade of the emperor. Free with this new life, I ventured North, yet I felt sick... Something had happened to this body, a calling. I lost myself once again. When I awoke this time... No conspiracy. I was but a skeever running for my life. A dragon had saved me from getting my head removed from my body. Another Aedra or Daedra playing with my fate? Was I still cursed? I was hungry though. I performed as I always do, a death dealer. I chose not to save those of this land, yet I basked in the glory of killing. I slain a dragon and devoured its soul. I thought I was mortal, I was not. I needed more, I had become a padomaic animal like the Daedra. I had power. I needed more power. I was starved. They spoke of Alduin, the Dragon that saved me, the one that was rumored to devour the world. I craved his power. I trained and acquired as much power as I could. I destroyed the dragon! It was not enough. The nights felt as if they were getting longer after I performed such a feat. I continued on my way. I became jealous of those with any other power that could rival my own. I crushed the children of Molag Bal as a lesson to those that would try to stop me. As I basked in my own power I was sought out by another... Like me. A fool that wanted to take my power. Solstheim was our battleground- I had been here before. I decimated my foe without remorse. His power became mine. In my final victory I was offered a gift... Knowledge. I regret it now, I was like a skooma addict. I wanted more power and ended up as another pawn to another Daedric Prince. This place feeds on the sanity of man and mer. Little does this beast know, I had sat on the throne of the insane god. I bide my time. When I break free from this Oblivion realm, I will be neither man, mer, or beast. I will be an Agent again, a harbinger to rid Tamriel of the food that feeds these Padomaic beings. I will tear them all from their thrones... If I can remember.
I always wondered why that like of dialogue was there when Parthurnax says that we could hasten the end of the world, but never understood how would that be possible, now I have a way, also I wondered why we never got blind from reading the Elder scroll or why we did not see other information !
I'm still a fan of the theory that the Dragonborn is a Shezzarine. I do agree that this theory makes a lot of sense, and, since it has way more room for sequels than the straightforward "save the world from evil dragon" plot, it's probably going to become canon.
![[LIVE] : ONE ลุมพินี 88 | คู่เอก "ป้อมเพชร vs อัสลามจอน"](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/1ZqTVVbMgbo/mqdefault.jpg)
Is Akatosh Insane? Find out here: th-cam.com/video/OJk_uQZ2hbQ/w-d-xo.html
Oath he is 😉
Nah, he’s just bored.
So if we kill him in the living world but don't follow him yo the afterlife... rinse and repeat, you're stopping the end of the world and the enslavement of the world as well.
I love your videos, this was such a cool new way to think about it!
One thing I didn't hear directly mentioned but that adds a huge amount of credence to your theory is this:
Paarthunax states that dragons essentially violently debate philosophy, right?
Well, that's glaring in light of the fact that the final shout you need to defeat Alduin is Dragonrend. The very essence of mortality, which dragons can't comprehend.
Your Dragonborn defeats Alduin by screaming End or Death at Alduin. Given your philosophy wins, I'm confident you madlads are exactly right, your character represents Akatosh trying to clean house.
But what if the dragonborne, is the next world eater himself? What if he just doesn't know it yet?
Ever notice how there's no limit to how much food you can eat at once in Skyrim, while time is frozen no less? It's The Dragonborn who will eat the world.
Born to eat made to shit forgot to wipe
Ayo😭
@@Shitbird3249 I gave my thumbs up to you instead of Fudge Muppet as your'e funnier.
I use to think that if I ate too many ingredients, I would die because of the mixing effects...
and still losing weight
I remember master Angeir said something similar to the dragonborn after the battle. That since we did not absorb Alduin's soul, he might return to do his destiny of world eating someday.
Alduin is an aspect of akatosh. This is why he isn't absorbed.
@@lifeunderthestarstv all dragons are aspects of akatosh
@@lifeunderthestarstv Alduin is the Nordic version of Akatosh.
@@Super50ldier the ancient humans thought alduin and akatosh were the same thing but they arent
@@literatemax Of course they are. It's like saying Akatosh and Auri-El are the same thing when they aren't.
People love to trash on the last gentation of Bethesda dev team but the whole “philosophy/battle/voice” trifecta is so poetically awesome… My boy Phaarth deserves a fckin podcast
uh, i think its just like being realistic they could've double tripled pentad the lore, just based off looking at morrowind.
I agree bro, that’s a really deep take on conversion, I would assume those who complained about it don’t understand how a powerful argument feels like combat of wit and defense of your values and morals
Honestly, the world building was awesome in Skyrim. The problem was with how some questlines were written.
the thing is it is flakes of gold in a big pile of shit
@@flaviusjustinianus99 flakes of gold are still flakes of gold.
There was once a theory I saw on Reddit a long time ago which explained skyrims story well.
Alduin isn't doing his duty as the world eater and instead builds himself an empire and for that reason Akatosh wanted to punish Alduin and created the first Dragonborn Miraak. But Miraak didn't fullfill his destiny and chose his own path like he says which results into the nordic rebellion using an elder scroll to banish Alduin because Miraak didn't join them. Miraak himself states that he was asked by the heroes to help them but he had other plans. When Alduin returns and tries to build his empire again, Akatosh created the last Dragonborn to do what Miraak didn't in the past. Punishing Alduin for his attempt to rule over Mundus instead of fullfillong his duty as the world eater.
This is no theory its literally what the game tells you
@@celebrimbor5505 but the game tells you that maybe you are the one to bring the end of times (Ithink the Greybeards say it)
@@gabycech2304 The next world will have to take care of itself.
It does makes sense. Because of the implying words "the last drangoborn"
@@CIoudStriker my DB grows insane with power, becomes the empress, crushes her enemies and reshapes Tamriel.....ooooohhhh wait!!! I heard this before! I'm becoming Talos! OH NOOOOOO!!!!
Yeah I'm pretty sure this was heavily implied by Aldiuns soul not being absorbed by us. I always kind of felt like maybe killing him was a destined mistake on the part of the dragonborn
"Uuuuuuuh...........
Oops."
Is it a mistake though? It's literally divine intervention and much more poetic and fitting, at least for me. Also if Lordran is anything to go by, I have no wish to see an age pushed to eternity.
I mean, I wouldn't call it a mistake. Sure, *MAYBE* Akatosh was just using us to stop Alduin, steal his power and then proceed to ending the kalpa. But it's not like Alduin winning would've been a good outcome either, he would be a tyrant rulling over everyone
Without Alduin ending the world, maybe it would age and rot but never be reborn. Eventually becoming useless to even the gods. And since they're part of the world that would suck for them too.
Every world ends sooner or later including Earth. But in TES they seem to have an immortal world as long as it gets reborn. I think it wasn't a mistake at all. I always assumed that a world one day ended by a dragon was better than a world ruled by a dragon forever. Especially one that was never meant to rule to begin with.
Huh I distinctly remember the dragonborn absorbing Alduins soul when you kill him. Weird.
Loving the new style of cinematography, can't wait for what's next :)
I think I remember them saying Heavy Burns either does it or showed them how to, it's very similar to what his videos look like.
Do also consider that, as you said, Alduin and The Last Dragonborn can essentially be seen as Akatosh having an internal debate about the fate of the Kalpa. If such is the case, well The Last Dragonborn retains individuality, so they might be able to bring peace to Akatosh's fractured mind by standing their ground. They already bested Alduin, which is a victory both of might and of philosophy, so perhaps they could go on to debate/fist fight Akatosh and essentially mantle him. Shouldn't be too difficult, considering they're already part of him.
This would actually be fucking awesome. It would also allow the elder scrolls universe to retain some semblance of consistent time, as between dragon breaks, chim and gods fucking with time itself, time currently means next to nothing lol. And also, to take your theory further, what happens if a kalpa never ends? Does it just wait until the godhead wakes? Elder scrolls lore is fucking wild.
@@imhavingastrokepleasehelp
I've studied the lore for about ten years now and there's still so much that I don't know. Like, the fact that the FudgeBois know the names of family lines and shit off the top of their heads is impressive to me. I personally don't care much for that stuff though, and I don't really like the godhead thing either. The idea of an unending Kalpa though, it would be interesting to see the ramifications. There's strong evidence that magic is strongest at the beginning and end of a Kalpa, so I wonder if it would simply continue to decline for all eternity, or even die out entirely? Maybe magic would change in order to survive? It's definitely an idea I'm gonna explore lol
Karma in this life, Kismet in the Afterlife and Kalpa within the lives who are in the Thereafter.
@@mjag2834
You're gonna have to run that one past me one more time. I don't know who Kismet is, nor what the Thereafter is, nor how Karma plays into The Elder Scrolls universe.
@@oliverholm3973 could potentially be canon on how the elder scrolls becomes more like our world, as with an infinite kalpa magic just becomes myth and legend, could connect es and fallout, which would explain some of the more questionable stuff in fallout. Also that’s awesome you’ve studied this lore for so long, I have too for a couple years and I gotta say, learning about shit that isn’t real is WAY MORE FUN. ES LORE>REAL LIFE LORE
Consider that one of the keys in defeating Alduin was the use of Dragon Rend shout, which forces the dragons, an immortal being, to understand mortality. In mortality, there is a birth and an end. And also maybe think about why the player character is called the LAST dragonborn. This is too much of a coincidence.
So we shout the concept of finality into his skull so hard his brain strokes out and he's forced to land and become woundable?
Takes mind fuck to a whole new meaning. I find it funny that two dragons fighting are physically and verbally beating their ideals into each other until the other submits.
@@thedoomslayer5863 That is pretty much the concept of the Thu'um, voicing your words so hard that they alter reality itself
@@oka1424 For all the shit i give skyrim and bethesda the Thu'um is still one of the coolest power concepts ive seen.
To basically alter reality by just saying something in a divine tongue and meaning it.
My headcannon (since i dont know the real lore) is the words themselves dont really matter its just a vehicle for you shaping your will unto the world. They just happen to be in dragon speak since this power is innate to them and they are born already understanding how to make their will real
So when one wishes to learn this concept they obviously learn it in their language, but they could probably use the common speak of tamriel to achieve the same effect.
@@thedoomslayer5863 I agree, it is one of the coolest and most creative concepts I've seen. You aren't far off from the real lore, but so far we haven't seen anyone using the Thu'um in another language, since it is pretty much tied to dragons themselves, but who knows? Maybe someone like the Dragonborn could make it possible.
@@oka1424 Yeah it reminds me of a concept i forget the origin of but the idea is to "speak with meaning" where no word is empty or devoid of intent such that you can speak things into being. Except the thu'um seems more like the words just being a vehicle for your will being imposed on the real world and changing reality.
I could go on some long philosophical tangent but i always wondered what "the language of God" would sound like and the thu'um seems to be something like that, or at least inspired by something like that.
Skyrim condensed: (Side-quest-less version)
Special magic boy learns how to shout at dragons in their own language, wins against the strongest dragon by stumping him in a philosophical shouting match, because philosophy and fighting are the same to dragons…thus convincing the dragon to destroy the world, as was his original purpose.
Skyrim Lore are pure Nietzchien!
i'd play that ngl
you separated him from his dumb ideas with the razor
Your verbal argument was so intense you ripped him to physical pieces leaving only his soul now sent back to akatosh like some wrong Amazon delivery to be rebuilt to serve his real purpose
This gets me thinking. Imagine a timeline where the Dragonborn and Alduin start off as enemies only to become unlikely allies. Imagine the character development as Alduin goes from an irresponsible tyrant to a humbled monarch. And the Dragonborn grapples with the reality he was never meant to save the world. If both agree to shirk their duties, Akatosh would be forced to birth a new hero destined to fell both the World Eater and the Dragonborn. Their fight would be legendary.
Alduin, the dragonborn and all the dragons sitting around a campfire singing and then boss music starts playing lol
Would this new Champion of Akatosh also be dragonborn? Similar to how Miraak was dragonborn. It'd be another battle between dragonborn.
@@daedhrogon7946 it is prophesied that you play the last and final Dragonborn. A blatant disregard of his plans would throw serious wrench into his divine progress, and being unable to get his first born and last Dragonborn to fight, would most likely mean he might have to step in and settle it himself.
@Marlow that would be cool to experience in game. The only "God fight" you really see is when Martin Semptim became the aspect of akatosh during the Oblivion crisis against Mehrunes Dagon.
But my initial point was more of a question of would Akatosh choose to create a second "last" dragonborn to finish what the first "last" dragonborn failed to do? Just a thought. But I like your theory more. Akatosh just appearing on Mundus like "yeah, it's over."
The youtube channel HISHE already did something similar to this years ago.
Every time I would kill Alduin, I liked to say something along the lines of "hey Alduin, dad told me to me to get you so you guys can have a talk" then I pretend that Akatosh locked him in his room until he promised to be a good world destroyer
The prophecy of the Dragonborn has always bugged me for a long time, especially the last part. "The World-Eater wakes, and the Wheel turns upon the Last Dragonborn." For a while, I used to believe that it was the fate of the Dragonborn to slay Alduin but thinking about it. It never really said that. It just said that when Alduin wakes, it will be up to the Last Dragonborn to decide the fate of the world.
But all this about Akatosh punishing Alduin so the world can actually end makes me wonder more that if all those events that were in the prophecy were Akatosh's doing so that the world would end but halted at the Last Dragonborn. To let him/her decide if the world will end or not. To let Alduin rule once again or to kill him. But likely, Akatosh may have always hinted at people's minds that it was the Dragonborn's duty to kill Alduin even though it never said. So that when the Dragonborn, unsure about who or what it means, meets these people, they are convinced of the only path that Akatosh has been hinting for thousands of years.
Akatosh:”Now go to your room young-man until you’re ready to complete your paper-route and end time!”
This could actually tie into the theory I left on your last fan theory video. Maybe Alduin was coropted by the creation of Akatosh in the middle dawn. Supposedly with what was done during the dragon break, the universe was partially rewritten. It may be possible that Alduin was originally created by Auri-el to end Lorkhans world, but the middle dawn corrupted and severed Auri'el, and Akatosh mantled time and dragons. Due to Alduin being rewritten to first born of Akatosh his purpose was less clear, as Akatosh does not seem to want to necessarily end the world. This changed from destruction to domination. Akatosh being a conflicted diety though, saw fit to probably end that domination as he had already spread much of his influence and did not need to conquer beliefs.
I don't think that theory would hold, because when you line up the lore especially all that i have read. Say They herald Shor as a trickster and son of Sithis this falls flat and is disproven through Shor's direct hate and Tsun wrath to any claiming to be of the brotherhood seeking to pass the bridge, the line goes with player first then tsun.
Player. "By right of blood. I Listen for the Night Mother." (Dark Brotherhood)
Tsun. "You trespass here, shadow-walker. Shor does not know you. Perhaps before the end you will earn the right to pass this way. Welcome I do not offer, but your errand I will not hinder, if my wrath you can withstand."
Shor is the all maker or at least Tall papa. Shor mirrors tall papa in one instance smacking Alduin satakal with a big stick because he was devouring the lesser spirits(Nords)
in one of the old games Shor was supposedly the head Deity and the others the ones that became the 8 divines were usurpers who stole his throne, but my point is a fact that meridia Restrained and Restrains the dragon causing time to flow Linear she is the reason he bites his own tail and when he bit his heart he died but metaphorically meaning the hunger became Alduin so when he shed "Gave birth" to Alduin whom was probably mothered by Mara Kynes handmaiden, and our boy pelinal? he is related to Akatosh to further this Records on Pelinal's maddness "And it is said that he emerged into the world like a Padomaic, that is, borne by Sithis and all the forces of change therein. Still others, like Fifd of New Teed, say that beneath the Pelinal's star-armor was a chest that gaped open to show no heart, only a red rage shaped diamond-fashion, singing like a mindless dragon, and that this was proof that he was a myth-echo, and that where he trod were shapes of the first urging. Pelinal cared for none of this and killed any who would speak god-logic, except for fair Perrif, who he said, "enacts, rather than talks, as language without exertion is dead witness." When those soldiers who heard him say this stared blankly, he laughed and swung his sword, running into the rain of Kyne to slaughter their Ayleid captives, screaming, "O Aka, for our shared madness I do this! I watch you watching me watching back! Umaril dares call us out, for that is how we made him!" [And it was during] these fits of anger and nonsense that Pelinal would fall into the Madness, where whole swaths of lands were devoured in divine rampage to become Void, and Alessia would have to pray to the Gods for their succor, and they would reach down as one mind and soothe the Whitestrake until he no longer had the will to kill the earth in whole. And Garid of the men-of-ge once saw such a Madness from afar and maneuvered, after it had abated, to drink together with Pelinal, and he asked what such an affliction felt like, to which Pelinal could only answer, "Like when the dream no longer needs its dreamer." So either Akatosh and Pelinal are one and the same or he is an aspect of Akatosh and when someone likened him to shor or being a shezzarine he spit at the people telling them not to Profane that name. So Aka and Pelinal revere him to some degree Honestly the nords are closer than any other race to the truth since ysgramor spoke often with Shor.
Shor to ysgramor - And the Fox spake, saying, "Know thou, mortal, that I am Shor, and this was nary Hare, but indeed, Herma Mora, who did nearly trick thee into becoming of Elvenkind. Rely you hereafter, mortal, upon the forthright methods of Man, and eschew the tricks of the Elves, lest ye become one. Now, go-for the White Stag awaiteth thee in the vale. And The nords also record the elven gods not as gods but as Elven Giants that realizing they couldn't win fled with Shor's heart.
@@Wraith779 Crazy idea here(and this has to do with the elder scrolls 6)... but what if the next hero of nirn is the one that kills the gods? It almost makes sense if u think about it. It's almost like Bethesda was leaving us a crumb trail to figure out that the gods aren't exactly all they're cracked up to be. I mean seriously, think about it, if the mortals of Nirn came to understand that their gods were working against them, they would rebel(surprise surprise). And not only does the theory in *this* video hold that up, but what everyone is saying about the divines and how they simply use the kalpas to show that they r divine, makes it feel like they don't want our worlds to last. In fact, I don't even think our world was supposed to make it to the second era even... Which brings me back to the point of mortals rebelling. It would be the perfect story imo, a cycle in which gods create and destroy worlds to keep divinity, only for the world they wish to destroy, refuse to end...
Damn now I wanna see the gods be killed off in the next games XD
@@Wraith779 for the first part I would say that if Shor is born from Sithis, he would not have to accept or follow him, or show any semblance of affection. Just because some dude is friends with my dad, does not mean he is welcome in my house. As far as Pelinal and Shor and Akatosh, admittedly I may not be fully brushed up on my lore, but he could be a champion of shor/shezzarine. Someone who is truly devote, or champion would be loathe to be called that which they hold on high, and consider it blasphemy. And according to Khajiit myth Akatosh and Lorkhan/Shor would be brothers, so calling his name in battle to fight alongside would not be strange.
The final point for this is that the middle dawn dragon break happened post Pelinal, and in the lore it says rewriting the universe is messy. I take that as a way to say that the past has been slightly rewritten and smashed together to make some form of sense, but don't look at it.
@@Feathertusk But from the Lore there was only a few Unaffected by the dragon break Nords Khajiit and Dunmer, the real tribunal protected the dunmer Shor kept the nords from being affected, But we know for a fact the nords were unaffected because of Wulfharth when he decided to take the Orcs as allies it reads as followed before the Battle of Red Mountain, Ysmir Wulfharth said to the reticent Nordic troops, "Don't you see where you really are? Don't you know who Shor really is? Don't you know what this war is?" This was purportedly referring to their presence within the Dragon Break of the Red Moment.
And here we have this from the same place The fourth song of King Wulfharth tells of his rebirth. The Dwarves and Devils of the eastern kingdoms had started to fight again, and the Nords hoped they might reclaim their ancient holdings there because of it. They planned an attack, but then gave up, knowing that they had no strong King to lead them. Then in walked the Devil of Dagoth, who swore he came in peace. Moreover, he told the Nords a wondrous thing: he knew where the Heart of Shor was! Long ago the Chief of the Gods had been killed by Elven giants, and they ripped out Shor's Heart and used it as a standard to strike fear into the Nords. This worked until Ysgramor Shouted Some Sense and the Nords fought back again. Knowing that they were going to lose eventually, the Elven giants hid the Heart of Shor so that the Nords might never have their God back. But here was the Devil of Dagoth with good news! The Dwarves and Devils of the eastern kingdom had his Heart, and this was the reason for their recent unrest. The Nords asked the Devil of Dagoth why he might betray his countrymer so, and he said that the Devils have betrayed each other since the beginning of time, and this was so, and so the Nords believed him. The Tongues sung Shor's ghost into the world again. Shor gathered an army as he did of old, and then he sucked in the long-strewn ashes of King Wulfharth and remade him, for he needed a good general. But the Devil of Dagoth petitioned to be that general, too, and he pointed out his role as the blessed harbinger of this holy war. So Shor had two generals, the Ash King and the Devil of Dagoth, and he marched on the eastern kingdoms with all the sons of Skyrim.
I don't know why they trusted Dagoth of all the elves he was the least trust worthy smh
@@KnightFury-uc9yk Not quite though it'd be interesting it'd only be well if it was the usurpers, The reason alessian practice died in Skyrim is because of Wulfharth who became an aspect of Shor Ysmir dragon of the north, Now Shor being the original Chief of the Divine his wife Kyne and kyne's hand maiden Mara as well as Jhunal Stuhn and Tsun were the ones the Nords and atmoran's followed and were descendants of. Shor being the most adamant and guarding the men of nirn and most importantly his people the nords, nords being one of the most OP races their voices before the abused the power and had it taken or rather made harder to learn, could take out Armies with one nord the main pretenders that keep men and mer from going further was Trinimac Akatosh Xarses or rather Arkay as he is now, mainly the elven giants Stendar was Stuhn so he is good if Shor don't mind since it's stendars skeleton that makes up the bridge to the halls of valor. It'd be more interesting if it was Shor reclaiming all the land took from him and his people, with him then revealing the truth behind his dethroning and the reclaiming of atmora from the eternal frost. Or if it turned out the Gamer was Tall papa XD and Shor was justing helping you out the whole time waiting for you to fix everything lol
I've been making a DnD campaign based in the setting of the elder scrolls, and your videos that make the dauntingly huge amounts of lore easily digestible has made making the world lore accurate infinitely more easy. So thank you.
Honestly though, the sheer amount of lore of this universe is insane. More props to you and your campaign.
Nerd
funny thing is that elder scrolls started out as a dnd campaign so you are returning to the source technically
The only thing you need to know about elder scrolls lore is that ES6 is probably gonna retcon a lot of stuff
Great theory! It ties in nicely with the Redguard's understanding of the gods and their interactions with the changing kalpas. They perceive the world cycles as an infinite snake consuming it's own tail, shedding it's skin at the turn of a new kalpa. It was Tall Papa, the Redguard time god, who learned how to walk between the skins of the world-snake and preserve himself and the other gods through the world cycles.
So in a sense, Akatosh/Tall Papa/Auriel and his divinity is (in part) defined by his ability to persist through the kalpas. In the context of the dreamsleeve, this is Akatosh's sense of chim in that he can continue to exist in the face of impossibility. The context of the gods divinity is lost if time were to have no end, and especially to a time god fulfilling this cycle is essential to his divine nature.
The Elder Scrolls is absolutely crazy, I love that a series of games can provoke these insane lore discussions that we're still talking about (even in the absence of a mainstream TES game in over a decade). I can't wait for TES6 to finally come around and give us more to talk about.
Agreed, can’t wait for TES6.
If there’s anything to take from previous Elder Scroll games, when TES6 comes out, we’ll have lore & mysteries to talk about for another several years too.
I’m just so stoked to see more of Elder Scrolls universe.
My knowledge on Yokudan myths and history is pretty much nonexistent, you know any sources where I can look into that kind of thing (in game or out)?
@@wessmoore7894 The Monomyth (in-game) is the source for that myth about Tall Papa and the world-skins. I'd also recommend reading over the Book Of Circles as it's the central text of the Redguard culture. Out of game, the UESP is a fantastic source and usually includes links to any relevant in-game books. I'd definitely go have a look around there
@@euanprior1798 Thanks! Really appreciate it!
And here I am, completely dismissing even going to Bleak Falls Barrow so that ZERO dragons invade Skyrim lol.
I end up doing it every single time. Can't help it, being the chosen one with the soul of a dragon who can scream at people to death is too badass not to accept
Same, coupled with alternative start mods.
After hearing Michael talk with such a chill tone/voice on the podcast I never think its him narrating videos cuz he’s got such a different energy in his “video voice” lol i guess thats the power of being a professional youtuber 😂
Speech craft goes brrrrrrrrr
I've always said that the LDB is Akatosh's way of telling Alduin, "You have one purpose. You did not do it. Return to Me and I will remake you so that you will complete My will."
Alduin is supposed to clear the way for the new kulpa, not start building empires. Using a Dragonborn as the weapon of last resort is the only way to reset the World Eater by turning him off and on again as a sort of hard reboot. The End of the World is back on schedule.
This whole theory sits way too comfortably on the presumption that Alduin's trip forward in time is a simply a short timeout from his perspective. It may very well have been a torturous experience, he could have felt like he was in there for eons. He was essentially outside time, so there's no way we could know without some in-game sources
I feel like it would moreso be experienced as a memory, where physically it felt instantaneous but simultaneously once free and back in a dimesion beholden to time you remember existing out of time for what assumedly would feel like eternity.
I would imagine it felt like suddenly jolting awake when you didn't realize you were asleep; like the throat of the world dissapeared and reappeared around him in an instant.
I think that is a fair point by the OP. Paartunax says that dragons are not affected by time as humans are.
I would assume that Alduins rule would be defined by an area/space that he controlled for a certain time. When you eliminate Alduin from time for several era's, it would feel like a humiliation of giving him era's during which he can do/dominate anything. Adding insult to injury, when Alduin returns, the area/space doesn't look like anything like it was back in the day. So in that way, the ancient Nords took away everything for alduin. That must have been an insane humiliation.
Now consider that Alduin is part of Akatosh and that part has a traumatic experience. When Nirm and time was created, Akastosh acted like a control freak and create Alduin and other to control the time and the (beginning and end) of the kalpa. However the creation of Alduin and Miraak all refused to play their role as intended by the gods. (The creatures of) Nirn is a world that rebelled against its creators. If the grip of Alduin/Akatosh on the world is ruined once again by the Dragonborn, why would Alduin/Akatosh still defend and keep the current world? Maybe Nirm should be recreated and a new kalpa is upon us.
Was it a doorway from one year to another year? Step through it and you traverse a millenia in an instant.
Or was it a sinkhole prison that sucked Alduin in and kept him imprisoned until a millenia later when the door would open again?
Could be either. The graphic scene we're shown doesn't show much.
Two problems I have with the entire story are 1) If Partysnaks had been camped on the Throat of the World waiting for Alduin's return, why didn't he do anything when Alduin returned? He didn't fight Alduin. He didn't tell the Greybeards. He didn't summon the Dragonborn. He didn't do anything but sit up there to be talked to. Epic fail. The Partysnaks have gone stale.
2) How does anyone from before know anything about when Alduin would return? Or *IF* he will return. Obviously he wasn't killed outright having been sucked through the portal, but that didn't tell them anything about the 4th Era. Definitely not enough to write books about the return or to make a mural about what would happen when he returned.
maybe it was like Gandalf in LOTR "I strayed out of thought and time... and every day was as long as a life age of the earth"
Great video, although this concept is nothing new. After defeating Alduin, if you talk to Arngeir he tells you that you didn’t save the world but delayed the destruction of the Kalpa. Which is why you didn’t absorb Alduin. Alduin still has his destiny to fulfill.
Before you fight Alduin, if you talk to Arngeir he tells you that maybe you are not suppose to defeat Alduin because the time line must unwind when it becomes too twisted. The world must end for the new one to be born.
My thing has always been "If the world was supposed to end now, then why did Akatosh send the one person who can stop Alduin"
Whether Aldiun had strayed too far from his path and we set him back on it, or we merely delayed the inevitable destruction of the world, it matters not if Akatosh didn't want Alduin stopped, he could have just not made a new Dragonborn. So yeah, we were supposed to defeat Alduin, just maybe not permanently. Who knows, it could be hundreds of thousands of years before the Kalpa is actually supposed to end,
Parthurnax speculates to the dragon born that he may be aiding the end, as seen when he talks about those who want to save the world often end up speeding up the end.
Gotta appreciate how while you're saying "the average citizen of Skyrim" (03:50), the camera pans to Hogni Red-Arm, a straight-up psycho cannibal flesh trader, staring down a customer.
I have a feeling that time in the Elder Scrolls universe has to restart cause if the same cycle keeps going time might start to break on it's own since each cycle of time isn't meant to continue forever
Akatosh might be the one Tamriel needs saving from, according to this theory. Maybe Skyrim would be better ruled by the world-eater than Stormcloak rebels and Imperial loyalists because at least Alduin's domination would unite the Nords, one way or another.
Perhaps the Dragonborn, as the Shezarrine, must become the new lord of both Mortal and Dovah, taking Mundus from Akatosh's grasp.
unite them as slaves
Another way of looking at it is Akatosh and Lorkhan seem to be fighting over the same power. There is lots of evidence that the Last Dragonborn is a Shezzarine, meaning that they are literally a manifestation of not one, but two gods. These two ancient foes seem to be fighting over control of Time itself. Perhaps Akatosh seeks to use the Dragonborn to ensure the Kalpa will end, while Shor seeks to influence them into protecting the world he created.
@@SanteLiberatore who is tsun to speak in the name of mighty lorkan who himself is part of sithis
@@georgemurdock7670 Tsun clearly shows disdain for the Dragonborn if he presents himself as the Dark Brotherhood leader. I don't think the Lorkhan-Sithis link can be held in that regard
This has basically been my head cannon for a long time. I never understood the idea of why Alduin would all of a sudden decide he needs to end the world when he was simply thrown forward in time. It also makes the Skyrim story soooooo much better.
Makes you wonder if dragons do battle with their voices, debate and combat being the same to them, and if you the Dragonborn do the same with them, then when you use the dragonrend shout against Alduin, are you winning the debate of mortality and the finite world. Pretty interesting when it’s out that way.
That's an interesting way to put it. However I think the point of dragonrend is that it's a concept dragons cannot understand. From what we know there are no dragon eggs in Elder scrolls. All dragons have always existed and always will. The only way for them to die is to be absorbed by the dragonborn. The dragonborn is a mortal who has a birth and a death. The dragonborn will one day grow old and feeble. The inherent fragility of life leading to its inevitable end is a concept an inherently mighty and immortal being like a dragon cannot comprehend so its like making a point in a debate that totally stumps your opponent to use dragonrend. It momentarily confuses them and brings them crashing out of the sky because mortality is something they cannot understand.
Maybe, but when playing the game you get the feeling that as dragonborn you can use the Thu'um but don't necessarily understand it. Shouting becomes something you can do because you absorb dragon souls, but the deeper meaning behind the shouts to which the Greybeards dedicate a lifetime of study is something that's lost on the dragonborn.
"Bro your wings are way to small for you to be flying around get your fat ass down here ugly lizard" -literal translation of dragonrent
@@georgemurdock7670 yeah I can confirm this translation is correct. I was there when Nords created Dragonrend.
@@timothycain8639 I can see that when its put that way. In a way its strange how beings immortal are always meddling with mortals, but when the mortals interfere back at them most if not all immortals dont know how to stop it.
Akatosh was broken though. He was reprogrammed during a dragon break sometime back right? Corrupted from his original purpose so that he would side with, and protect, humanity.
Is it really corruption or an inevitable character progression caused by the interplay between gods and their mortal worshippers over time? Time changes all things, even gods and how mortals perceive them. Relationships like these have a tendency to change both parties, both in real life and in mythology. Even if one ignores the variables of mortal worship and perception, should it really come as a surprise that gods should change their minds and be internally conflicted?
@@Xbalanque84 But he was specifically targeted and altered unnaturally, as a matter of artifice from the Marukati Selective. We’re still not entirely sure how far that goes, but it must at least be considered that Akatosh is behaving in a manner outside his natural state. I agree that what you are proposing would be sensible, for a God to change their nature due to a change in their worshippers perceptions over time, but in this case I don’t think we can assume that.
This God has been deliberately sabotaged, and we can’t just ignore the fact out of hand because it benefits mankind. It’s possible that because of this alteration he doesn’t intend to allow for the next World to be born at all.
It may even have been HE who turned Alduin into the twisted form he was specifically to prevent him from fulfilling his duty.
@@Neuviletteiudexofmemes Akatosh exists because people believe he does for long enough and Akatosh existed before the selective. It was just that the selective wanted to separate the elven aspects from it and caused a dragon break.
@@TheMeestLord We ASSUME all that was done was the removal of the Elvin aspects. But we don’t know the full scope of what they did. It could very well be the alteration to Akatosh is what caused Alduin to be retroactively corrupted. Messing with the god could have had any number of consequences, and we don’t know the full scope of their intentions.
@@Neuviletteiudexofmemes Akatosh/Auri-El (Time) and Shor/Lorkhan (Space) in particular are rather well defined compared to the other original spirits. With the former allowing the original spirits to stabilize and the latter being the one who convinced others for the creation of Mundus. Those are two of the original spirits that would prefer not to have tampered with. As they are from entities with a higher plane of existence. Of course considering that Dragons has a compulsion to dominate it begs a question about Akatosh/Auri-El.
I did a playthrough of the main story this past summer and definitely got the vibe that we were setting the world up for destruction as opposed to saving it
it's a tricky decision for the dragonborn though, seeing as how if you refrain from getting involved, then any blood spilt by the dragons is indirectly on your hands, and we know that there will be an abundance of bloodshed. The world as we know it will be over whether or not you kill Alduin, it's just a matter of when and by what means
At Helgen, Alduin sits atop the tower and look YOU in the eyes. He knows he traveled in time (banished by men) and when he is ready to take Skyrim for himself, continuing what he was doing in the ~past~ he faces the dragonborn. I imagine he must be pissed. 5 seconds away he was ready to make Skyrim his empire, now he sees someone with power enough to stop him (Akatosh sent), he believes what he was doing was Gods will but that same God sent a human/beast race to stop him? If I was him I would super pissed. I my playthrough my Dragonborn becames insane with power, the same that happened to Alduin, since dragons are powerhungry and the Dragonborn is a dragon stuck in the body of a mortal. (sorry for bad english)
In my playthrough, the Dragonborn’s power goes to their head at first, but they go to parthuunax and learn to control their urges.
I assumed he looked at you for the same reason all NPC's look at you when you're near them and there not talking to someone else. Also, didn't he attacked helgan to prevent ulfric's death so the war would continue and he could eat the soul's of the warriors of sovernguard?
@@sleven1160 in my opinion, the way he inclines his head directly towards you shows he can sense your dragon soul. When you meet him at Kynesgrove he calls you Dovahkiin, but at Helgen there were no mentions of your power and you only met him there, before Kynesgrove. It proves to me he can feel you and sense in you the dragon soul. At Sovngarde he devoures the soul of nords, all of the ones that are not inside the Hall of Valor. If you didn't die an honorable death but you are nord, you go to Sovngarde but you're not allowed to go to the Hall.
Becoming “neo-Alduin” actually makes some sense, the dragons have an inborn desire to dominate and Paarthurnax says even you have this desire
@@uncreativename2979 Maybe you become the next emperor of Tamriel and Alduin returns to end your time, given you were send to Skyrim to stop him, not for taking power to yourself.
This also made me consider how anyone who actually understood dragons was warning against killing Alduin (Greybeards, Partysnax, etc) but the ones who were for it were generally myth fearing Nords. IMO Alduin should have been banished for another Era, it seems like that was the safest route before and it worked for a long time. It would have been a bit better than allowing his soul to escape at least.
I still have many questions about the main story, mostly having to do with Shor. We know he wants the DB to fight Alduin and in general we know the DB is held in high regard in Sovngarde, but what exactly does Shor want? Does he support the DB because he also wants Alduin remade so a new kalpa can begin, or is it just that he doesn't want the warriors he's gathered to be devoured? Basically, what's Shor's role in all of this and what exactly does he want?
It would seem to me that Shor would not want Mundus, his creation, destroyed. To that end, he would send TLDB to kill the World Eater. He's dead, so he may not be "in the loop" on Alduin..? However, the kalpic cycle encompasses far more than Mundus, but the whole Aurbis. Perhaps even Shor recognizes that while he may want to protect Mundus, the kalpa must end at some point. Perhaps the end of the kalpa would bring about his resurrection, and he could try again?
These are just random thoughts I had after reading your comment, I haven't really put thought into it to have a coherent theory
Shor doesn't have consciousness. He was killed by the other divines. The closest thing to Shor is Talos. Talos is sort of like a reincarnation of Shor.
@Forest New i disagree, given that the Nords in Sovngarde specifically say Shor isnt present on his throne because he would blind the mortal LDB or something like that, indicating physical, conscious presence ( in the aetherial realm of sovngarde at least)
@Forest New in fact, all dialogue in Sovngarde regarding Shor indicates he has conscious will. Ordering the warriors not to confront Alduin, Tsun's dialogue, Shor's conspicuous absence and the explanation given for it...
@@stveloth694 I'm with you, especially the part about Shor possibly being resurrected with a new kalpa. Basically the history of Shor and Akatosh, especially their relation to the races of men (or at least to the Nords), is pretty screwy.
I'm not much of a theory crafter myself but I love watching your videos and this actually blows my mind. I support this theory big time! Alduin and The Dragonborn are the physical representations of two philosophies held by Akatosh who has D.I.D. (Dissociative Identity Disorder). It's pretty much two aspects of Akatosh debating over the fate of the kalpa. Essentially we the player character are a part of Akatosh himself! :D
I still don't understand how people thought that Alduin would end the world. The loading screens directly say that if the dragons would return they would build there old empire again.
I think because Esbern was convinced Alduin was going to destroy the world, people just ran with that. Alduin, unlike Dagoth Ur or Mankar Camaron, doesn't get that moustache twirling moment where he explains his evil scheme, so people assume Esbern's interpretation of Alduin's Wall is correct.
I grew up playing Skyrim and watching your guys lore and build videos, glad to see you guys are still putting out Skyrim content
I'm partially fond of the thought that you are Alduin's executioner. Though a different theory, what if you are part of Akotash? You mentioned that Akotash is a mixture between the god of creation and the dragon of destruction. By killing the dragons you are essentially creating a new world where people can thrive without dragons. When you finally die, I presume that the dragon souls you've "consumed" may wonder once more and come back in a later Era to bring an end to civilization.
Better yet: what if the souls you consumed all become part of Alduin? Maybe Alduin failed to devour the world because he wasn't vast and powerful enough. So if he was unified with most of dragonkind prior to his reincarnation, then the new Alduin would be a truly deific force for destruction. And the Dragobborn helps him get there, by collecting the souls of all the dragons and killing Alduin so he can reform stronger than ever.
I always assumed for Alduin, him being sent through time was like a blink for him. It was instant.
Yeah that makes sense. It is pretty much what I figured your role was as dragonborn from the talks with alduin, paarthunax and the greybeards
Make a walkthrough where dragonborn do all the positive and good quest at first, and then after defeating Aulduin he realise all this. He slowly becomes corrupted and starts doing all the evil quests, and at last he became a vampire to live forever to stop the inevitable.
for how evil 90% of my dragonborns have been, this actually makes more sense than saving the world
That iron sword is undependable. You should try
Schteel
Does this make Alduin the anti-hero of the story like Satan in Paradise Lost? He rejected his role set by his god/creator to instead rule the "lesser" beings known as man.
he was anti hero before betraying the universe
Question: Satan was the anti-hero in paradise lost…? Is that an ambiguous interpretation or intentional? Looking for more reading material and this sounds intriguing.
@@whatdoesthisthingdo Satan sounds sympathetic in the story, so that is how he gets his anti-hero status
@@badluck5647 Interesting!
Epic theory with a pretty strong backbone. Parthanaxs dialogue really helped me see how they're hinting at that, as well as not absorbing his soul after defeating. Thanks for all the work putting this video together.
The DB ends the timeline? No wonder the next elder scrolls isn’t out yet. Guess we have to wait until the next kalpa.
This episode looks especially amazing. I know nothing about cinematography or what actually goes into making these kinds of videos because my goblin brain probably couldn’t handle it but wow. Something seems different and I like it💚
Goblins?
Goblins?
Goblins!!!
Quick, call goblinlayer
I've known this for a good while now tbh. Alduin never planned to devour the world upon his return, just to restore his status quo as overlord of tamriel.
As beautiful as fudgemuppets videos are, in 2022 I'm finally starting to see Skyrim graphically showing its age, even modded. Tbh I'm glad tes 6 has been left so long so hopefully we can all be shocked again like in 2011.
As you grow older you will more and more find graphics to be some of the least important aspects of a game.
To this day I play Planescape: Torment, The Baldur's Gate Saga, Fallout 1 & 2, Star Wars KotoR 1 & 2 on PC and even SNES games like Final Fantasy 6, Chrono Trigger, Lufia 2 and many other pretty damn old games.
It's not just the nostalgia, it's fantastic characters and relationships, story, dialogue, music, re-playability in various character builds and good or evil decisions that have very significant impacts on how the story develops and how the world changes, some of the awesome raw humor that would be super politically incorrect nowadays which just makes it better and better like a fine wine and more! I respect your opinion, I know, I've been there.
Just know, graphics looses value MUCH faster than all the other things mentioned as graphics keep improving and most of the time, the other things become worse and worse. You'll notice this in time unless the industry really changes fundamentally and becomes more driven by gamers rather than businessmen. We shall see!
PS. The golden era of video games generally speaking is considered to be from the early 90's to early 2000's when indeed gamers were making the games and big money hadn't corrupted a lot of the industry. If you prioritize graphics over all the other experiences available, you will miss out on some of the absolute best, funniest and most awesome entertainment, stories and thought provocation of all time when it comes to gaming.
Like seriously, Final Fantasy 6's story is just amazing and the twists and turns are mind blowing. Has several of the best characters ever made in video gaming history. Fallout 1 & 2 has some of the absolute best comedy you will have ever witnessed in a game, especially if you are familiar with Monty Python. Planescape: Torment is like playing one of the most amazing books ever. The writing is sublime and completely sucks you into the mystery of EVERYTHING as you do not even know who you are, nevermind the strange world around you!
@@screwbigtechsanti-sciencem9438 I agree and I'm not even all that old.
I would say PS2 Era and before were by far the best in terms of video games.
I make an exception for Fallout New Vegas and Oblivion. Maybe one or two others.
Any other "good" game is basically a good sandbox for mods.
Like Skyrim and Fallout 4.
It was showing its age about two years after release
First of all, I love watching your videos. Played Skyrim since day 1 and always loved it. I'm sure that I couldn't even come close to your knowledge about the Elder Scrolls Universe, but do you need to mention that 4 times in the first half of the video? 😆
I had not thought of this, but it is an interesting idea. I would love to play a game where this was played out. Being chosen by a god to clear a blockage that is keeping the world from ending. A constant cycle of destruction and rebirth is a nice concept. And what if the end of each cycle is stagnation? Things stagnate, then the end comes and things are reborn, bright and vibrant and new. And, so a god oversees this change. And so, when the agent of change denies their purpose, you are chosen to destroy them. Then a short period of stagnant peace arrives, before the god figures out how to destroy the world and restart the cycle.
What would be very cool would be if the game would give you all the signs of the stagnation, in order to enlist the player character's aid in bringing about the destruction. Maybe giving the player character a way to navigate through the end of the world and into the rebirth of the new cycle.
dark souls?
Ok, this is one of my favorite videos from this channel, the theory and all the concepts and philosophies behind it are so amazing!
If Socrates was a dragon it would be paarthunax
I had this thought after killing Alduin as well, I felt like it was semi validated when Arngeir voiced the same thought. I just hope we can see Atmorra and Akavir maybe even a chance to see other lands that have been described in this Calper before they end it.
One hell of a theory. But it does make sense since in the game, the dragonborn doesn't absorb Alduin's soul.
He explained why that might happen like 5 times
No.
Bethesda in short being like: Yo, this has gotten way outa hand, like stuff don’t make no sense. We gotta start over, clean this up, redo Battle of Red Mountain, but this time all the writers need to be in the same room.
My theory is this; the dragonborn is an aspect of akatosh, just as alduin was. the world must end, or at least begin again. since the world left after the dragonborn is so different it has, in fact changed into a different world. This is the reason that all things the dragonborn touches regain balance. i believe that the new kulpa is that of the era in which the god among men, the dragonborn, aspect of akatosh, will rule among men, perhaps not as a king, but as a great balancer and protector.
It’s crazy you make this video so recently, because I have been thinking about the same exact thing as I decided to replay Skyrim, when it’s been about 6 years since I last had. But as someone who’s definitely a lot wiser having lived through a lot in that time, I just wanted to see how I would experience Skyrim again under a new lense. Which I always do with games I haven’t played in a while. Because I almost always do pick up on a lot of things I didn’t before.
imagine if the dragonborn became the next alduin, fated to devour the world he tried to protect
probaly doesn't make any sense lore-wise (i have nowhere near enough lore knowledge to make that call), but it's cool idea
I wrote a Skyrim FanFiction basically about this but in a different way
Side note: the video clip of the dragon picking someone up, shaking them about like a dog with a new toy, & then flinging them had me laughing! One of my all time favorite memories of any game was being picked up, shook about & flung into a tree! I laughed so hard, in between swearing - lol!
It's a lot like the theory about how Dagon may have intentionally instrumented his own defeat in the Oblivion Crisis, in that I'm not sure if that's the creator's actual intention but they would absolutely run with it because it makes it look like their writing is smarter than it actually is.
I'm curious: why would Dagon want to be defeated at the end of the Oblivion Crisis? How does that serve his purposes?
@@Drekromancer It's kinda complicated but the idea is that Dagon doesn't actually want to conquer Tamriel, and his actual goal was to do Lorkan a solid by destroying the Septim dynasty when Martin mantles Akatosh, so Akatosh would be forced to actually do his job again instead of just relying on the dragonborn.
But it's also a theory that mostly just exists because of how anti-climactic the story of Oblivion feels and how easily Dagon loses even though he could have invaded at any point in the last 900 years. I'm not saying I believe it and I really doubt it was the secret intention of the writers, it's just lorebeards trying to salvage a kind of disappointing narrative.
Alduin: *[Is thefeated and reset back to factory settings]*
Akatosh: Yes! Now, when the time comes, he'll finally do as was intended.
*[The time comes]*
Alduin: Hmm... Why do I have to end the world now? Why not rule instead?
Akatosh: . . .
Akatosh: ME DAMN IT!
Yes, based mostly on what Parthunax says, I think your explanation of the story is pretty much dead on. Although the Dragonborn does 'save the world' in a shorter term sense of the phrase, since obviously the inhabitants of Skyrim don't have to live under a tyrannical dragon.
9:59
Akatosh's POV: Dragon Soul Absorbed.
I like to think that the Dragonborn is actually the villain of the story. And his purpose is to replace Alduin. But’ll ultimately fail in some way too.
Amazing you used that one podcast theory for an entire video, the concept was great!
Also, visually these videos have reached a new level of good, I'm truly impressed! Must be due to Patreon?
if I were to hear something like this back when I first started playing Skyrim, I wouldn’t believe it. But I’ve recently finished playing the dark souls games and now I have a different outlook on these kinds of things. The world must end at some point, the last Dragonborn may only be a pawn to take out a king in a divine game of chess, but it’s not the destination that matters, it’s the journey. The quests and side quests you complete, the spells you learn, the Allies you make, and the cheese wheels you hoard, that’s what truly matters.
So, elder scrolls 6 is set up to be a battle between redguards and wanna-be-world-ender-elves on a cyclical world primed to end. The redguards travelled through time from a broken world/the end of a kalpa to reach tamriel after a war with a massive elven empire. Tall Papa, their lead god, is also their lead god because he figured out how to side-step the end of the world into the next cycle. There is also the quote that says the redguards destroyed yokuda to be able to travel to tamriel. These might all be commonly made connections that I have missed, but it's pretty interesting how the setup matches with the redguard origin story and the cyclical world. It would however be a very, very bold premise to build a game around.
A perfect way to start my morning! Love from Houston Texas ❤️
2nd that
I didn't discover Skyrim until like 5 years after it was out and it was mind blowing. By then everyone was over it but I was just figuring out how to explore.
When the game came out, I was so disappointed to find out that the Dragonborn armor was “tier 1” armor. With how iconic it was even when the game was in its infancy, I thought it would be a lot stronger.
Fr. But I'm pretty sure that armor is smithed and enchanted to a god-like level
@@rihaanparakkal6599 yeah, I know that now. But when the game came out, I said.
Your guys video editing skills are awesome great job improving the content over the years and not just coasting with all the success
Much is left unexplained in Elder Scrolls lore. Bur perhaps the single most confusing and ambiguous part of the lore is the question of how to draw a logical connection between mortals and gods. Alyssa, a mortal, appears to have exerted a transformational influence over the very identity and purpose of certain gods, while condemning others to obliteration. This sort of intervention induces cognitive dissonance; it wrecks the idea of gods ruling or guiding mortals entirely.
Another ambiguity is whether the Eight Diviners stood up by Alyssa are even alive. Must they be, to confer totally automatic blessings upon worshipful mortals? The nature of those blessings is fixed. Canned. Even the breaking of the Amulet of Kings, resulting in Martin Septim becoming an avatar of Akatosh, looks more like a prearranged magical spell than the intervention of a live god, a spell infused into the amulet in the First Era. By Akatosh? A god created by amalgamating two gods into one? Just what the heck *is* a god? And what evidence do we have that they are live, willful beings in contemporary times?
Gods seem to be more a reflection of mortal wills than independent entities. Which differentiates gods from Daedra, whose independent existence, prowess and will is demonstrable.
I am not enamored of the theory that Alduin is Akatosh, or even that Alduin is a part of Akatosh. I do remember that the lore includes a book hypothesizing this connection, but I think it's one of many red herrings we see in Elder Scrolls lore. Remember that Parthanax, who should know, called Alduin 'first born of Akatosh,' which implies a separate identity, separate will for Alduin. A precursor is required - a god of Time. Alduin is not a god of Time. He does not command Time, but is subject to it.
But given the mortal ability to transform gods, could the idea of Alduin being Akatosh, circulating among mortals, lead to transformational effects?
Bah, this subject makes my head hurt. :-)
Akatosh always reminded me of Two-Face. And The Fade how choses a Dragonborn is the Coin. Head/Good Side is when the DB stops Alduin and the Bad Side/ Tails is when the DB is killed and Alduin destroy the "current" World. And with every new "Coin flip" the Story begins a new.
Totally my first impression, but who knows. As Akatosh made his covenant with Alessia, maybe he came to apreciate more of Lorkhan's creation, and so choosing many man dragonborn later. Ad the mixture of worshipers and influences, and what Akatosh had in mind for both Alduin and Mundus, may be entirely different now. Personally I'd love to see an incarnated ("not dragonborn") Alduin learning modesty and mortal hardship as a way of penitence.
Ooh tht would be interesting to see. I’d like to see a repentant alduin learn to overcome like parthanax did.
Sounds like a playthrough.
Alduin, stripped of his draconic flesh and cast into the body of a mortal, awakens to find himself in a cart...
Great video! I do like the idea that the battle between the dragonborn and alduin is a representation of Akatosh's mind
While this is interesting, I feel like we’re all ignoring the important question. Sven or Faendal?
Faendal. Archery boy.
Camilla
Hilde
Both of them are willing to tell lies in order to manipulate Camilla, both are dumb enough to trust a total stranger to be complicit in their subterfuge. But only Sven is needlessly rude to his elderly mother. I gotta go with Faendel
I chose life, and left them to their own devices
The idea that Alduin could be reformed and sent back to Tamriel to fulfill his purpose could have great tie-ins with the Towers theory and plot. Perhaps the Thalmor learn of this and decide they want to ally with the reformed Alduin to unmake the world.
I can understand the theory, it also makes sence that harkon is defeated, if the sun is closed off then the new alduin wont be able to return, but where does hermaeus mora fit in all of this?
Cuz of that miraak guy?
@@georgemurdock7670 no because hermaeus mora, what does he gain from making the dragonborn stronger? Does akatosh abandon him or something? Or doed hermaeus mora want the world to end? Idk
I mean if skyrim and the dlcs all are required for alduin to be remade, what does the daedric prince of forbidden knowledge gain? Or whats his role in it?
@@Rex-The-Wolf he wanted to get rid of miraak i think. Also when the world ends his library is just a collection of fan fiction so i always counted him to the more good deadra
@@georgemurdock7670 i know he wants to get rid of miraak, but i mean if this theorys roght and i think it is, what does mora have to gain from turning the last dragonborn into his servant
@@Rex-The-Wolf the dragonborn is pretty strong. Always good to have him on your side
Wow! Interesting point of view. I’ve never saw that way. Thank you for the video!
I'd love it if somebody made a mod where you can join Alduin to restore the dragon cult and his realm. How awsome it would be, especially in combination with mods like Kohnarik's Accoutrements.
Only cause the Empire and Stormcloaks both suck.
@Frank fältskog You got the name?
@Frank fältskog Blessings of the divines be upon you! I already have a suitable character idea 😁
But why rebuild Alduin's cult when you can just kill him, then make your own? I mean, after defeating Alduin, you're already treated as a divine hero, and you've got loyal enforcers in the form of Followers and then there's your borderline god-like power with the voice. There's even a mod where you can make your own faction/guild and basically have it's coal be whatever you want.
@@stevenhiggins3055 Because I'd love to back my power up with 50 meter long flying flame throwers. Nothing gets more converts like the threat of being chewed down.
Also my character is Atmoran (I have a more or less reasonable explanation for him beimg in the fourth era) and that's the religion he grew up in and to him starting his own cult completely centered around him would be heresy. One could still be a demigod/saint and dragon priest.
WHICH WHY IT MAKES MORE SENSE THAT THE DRAGONBORN BEING IN THE NEXT ELDER SCROLLS AND THE SWORD SINGER PLAYS A PART IN A PLOT SOMEHOW RELATED
Here's a theory I've had for a while that kind of builds upon this one.
Yucuda did NOT sink, it was eaten.
At the end of the last kalpa Aldwin felt something missing So he pursued this missing mass into our world. After finishing His duties he found himself in a Undefended world ripe for his dominance and the rest is history.
Do you mean Aldmeris? Because Yokuda was nuked by mortals
7:55 If by Pawn you mean the next embodiment of Lorkhan who appears in Nirn around the time Shor disappeared from his throne in Sovngarde.
Amazing videos guys, your lore is amazing and I love listening to your videos while playing TES games, and is this video the one from the theory podcast?
I think the most soul crushing realization I came to recently is that at least since the events of The Elder Scrolls III - I've essentially been cleaning up my own mess. Just thinking about it leaves me with an empty feeling inside. A pain deep in my soul - my gamer soul.
I love playing skyrim, I have fun with every ES game actually. But I will say this, the beginning to skyrim is definitely weird.
You're crossing the border in a war and captured. Normal.
You're brought to a prison camp. Normal.
What's your name stranger? Bastard McThuumbreath, of course.
Alright, good. Off with his head!
Why the fuck did you ask me my name?
Well, probably to inform any friends or family and track any estates/ inheritance
TL;DR to give you a death certificate
I mean Hadvar had a list of all the people captured during the ambush but there was one unaccounted person on the cart you. Hadvar double checks and sees your not on the list but the captain decides to execute you anyway because there’s a decent chance you might be a rebel.
If you were rich enough to have an estate, don't you think the imperials of all people would want to keep you alive? And how is it that Hadvar already had the list of the other three? If four prisoners are picked up don't you think they'd already ask all four of their names? Just saying, slight plot hole.
@@tsaikofilms1851 well, they probably wouldn't want you alive if they assumed you were a rebel, which they would, seeing as you were in the same area as Ulfric.
And after they killed you, they would have either given your inheritance to your family, or given it to the imperial government
@@kalyambamhango4548 I think that just proves the Nordic Imperials have a more Nord way of dealing with enemies. Keeping an enemy alive is better way to effect their influence for your cause. Something I would expect from different factions like the Khajiit or Elves. But I can see how the two sides of Skyrim's civil war are forced to such extremes. Dragons are flying around and people might as well be lining up to be beheaded.
It’d be cool if, in a few games time, we hear of Alduins return once again. You could even possibly experience the death of the world. And it’d leave a whole new Kalpa worth of games to make.
Do we even know if Alduin was sent by Akatosh in the first place?
He's described both as a form of Akatosh and as the firstborn, perhaps he simply came to mundus of his own volition like a rebellious child, before he was even capable of ending the world, after all for a dragon that's supposed to destroy all of Nirn, he is rather small.
Rather than killing him so he can be remade, we simply returned an angsty child to his parent lol
I like this. As a Norse Humanist IRL, and with Skyrim partially being based on Norse mythology and language, this makes the story somewhat play out like a cautionary tale from the Eddas about defying fate, that no matter how strong you are, you are fated for a purpose, and you will fulfill that purpose.
Quick summary: Don't go to that damn Bleak Falls Barrow if you don't want the World to end
Such great world-building by the writers at Bethesda. As a player, killing dragons just feels like normal RPG fare, and being Dragonborn is the same as being the Chosen One, so it seems pretty generic at first. But then you dig, and find out that you represent one side of Akatosh, and Alduin the other. The player is the creation side, and Alduin is the destruction side. Together, they create a cycle of death and rebirth, just like what Akatosh represents.
Also the fact that the old Nords used the Elder Scroll not to trap Alduin for 1000 years, but to actually SEND HIM FORWARD 1000 years because he's a dragon, and they live in the dimension of time, is great consistency in the rules of how dragons and the world work.
When you defeat Alduin, everyone is cheering for the Dragonborn, not realizing they still have only delayed the inevitable. Maybe once the Last Dragonborn dies, the roles will switch. The world-eater in the form of man, because of man's consistent daedric worship, and the creator in the form of a dragon on account of the Altmeri/Aedra connection. This Kalpa will end eventually, as Paarthunax foretold, and the dragon crisis is over, that plan didn't work. Maybe Akatosh does something different in the future lore.
It would be pretty boring to play ES6 and not learn about how the events of Skyrim changed the pantheon. Nerevarine changed elements of dark elf religion, the Champion of Cyrodiil helped birth Akatosh through Martin Septim and then became Sheogorath, effectively becoming an essential part of history and theology, so I imagine the Last Dragonborn killing Alduin, one of the aetherial gods in the Nordic pantheon would drastically affect both the Nordic religion and the image or worship of Akatosh in other pantheons, like by Imperials. How would an Imperial feel about the events that took place in Skyrim 200 years later? Would they even believe it? How would it change their views on Akatosh?
This makes soo much more sense thanks fudgemuppet
Thank you for another fun deep dive into Elder Scrolls lore! 💙
In the future, I would love to see a playthrough of Oblivion's Dark Brotherhood questline, as I never got to finish it.
I still believe Alduin was corrupted by Shor when he first entered Sovngarde so Shor could have more time to gather Nord warriors for the Dawn of the next Kalpa and that's why Akatosh had to go through all this trouble to get Alduin back on track to end the Kalpa.
Shor can’t corrupt. Alduin himself is a corruption of auriel, shor can only improve
@@georgemurdock7670 Shor is Lorkhan, and he has every reason to want to corrupt Auriel/Akatosh's firstborn. In the Dawn of the current Kalpa he was defeated by Auriel, and his heart torn out and launched into the ocean. Sovngarde is a gathering place for warriors of the Nords, the descendants of the Wandering Ehlnofey that made up his army in the Dawn Era. It's clear he's gathering them up to use them for the next big battle against Auriel, and how better to give himself time to prepare for that battle than to corrupt the being who is meant to bring the end of the current Kalpa and usher in the new one? Causing him to neglect his duty means Lorkhan has plenty of time to gather the best the Nords have to offer before he has to fight Auriel and his elves (descendants of the Old Ehlnofey) again.
@@thevioletlightning0139 ik but he cant corrupt. Like god can’t corrupt, only evil can corrupt, lorkan good, elven god bad
@@georgemurdock7670 nah, technically he's a Daedra, and Daedra can't create, they can only corrupt creation.
@@thevioletlightning0139 🤷🏻♂️ fair
"To deny that the world must end is to deny that it began."
--Excerpt from Knowing Satakal.
Honestly, the whole confusion is just down to people assuming we're being a typical hero and outright saving the world rather than what we're actually doing - preserving the natural order by removing a corrupted element of the usual cycle, which just so happened to be the part that ends the cycle and brings in a new one.
We should remember, as TES VI comes out, that we shouldn't expect to be saving the world.
as long as I don't feel like an underdog in VI I am fine with that
In my game, I was once an Agent of the Empire, I ventured to Daggerfall to solve a conspiracy. I tampered with the Mantella which granted me immortality as a curse and was made an amnesiac. I last remember awaking on a ship bound for Vvardenfell where it turned out that I was once again flung into conspiracy as I became blessed by Azura and mantled the Nerevar to become the hero that the people of this island needed. After I defeated Dagoth Ur and tore down the Tribunal Gods of the Dunmeri people I was hunted by the Daedric Prince Hircine. As I won our contest, Hircine had pointed me Northward, to Akavir... Only, I did not make it to this lost land. Our ship was broken in the Sea of Ghosts. My curse had saved me but again I lost myself to the tides of fate and time. I felt my sanity wane yet I heard of voice. Familiar... Like a dear friend I once had. It guided me to take control only to find myself in prison. I knew not where I was, yet where ever I end up, the Aedra seem bound to torment me with conspiracy. I had returned home only to witness an Emperor be murdered. He was my friend, I remembered only after I watched the blade strike him down. He gave me one last mission as his Agent. Deliver his amulet to a priest. I felt ashamed to have lost so much. My sanity continued to wane. I fought back a Daedric cult to save my dear friend's Empire and keep his only heir safe. Yet in the end I could not hold true to my oath as his heir sacrificed himself to save us all. I lost myself again, only this time to insanity. Like ripe fruit, I was plucked from Tamriel to a new realm. A Daedric Prince had his eyes upon me. Thrust into more conspiracy I walked among the Daedra of this realm until I could no longer walk as myself. I was a pawn to this god. He tricked me to break his curse and forced me to take his place. For many years I was bound to this role. Yet in Oblivion, there are ways to trick fate. For all of my adventures I constantly had to deal with these beings that did not adhere to our rules and law. Padomaic creatures. I embraced this chaos and served the same hand I was dealt to another, it took me many years but I was now free. I was mortal. The fool of a small town, a former Blade of the emperor. Free with this new life, I ventured North, yet I felt sick... Something had happened to this body, a calling. I lost myself once again. When I awoke this time... No conspiracy. I was but a skeever running for my life. A dragon had saved me from getting my head removed from my body. Another Aedra or Daedra playing with my fate? Was I still cursed? I was hungry though. I performed as I always do, a death dealer. I chose not to save those of this land, yet I basked in the glory of killing. I slain a dragon and devoured its soul. I thought I was mortal, I was not. I needed more, I had become a padomaic animal like the Daedra. I had power. I needed more power. I was starved. They spoke of Alduin, the Dragon that saved me, the one that was rumored to devour the world. I craved his power. I trained and acquired as much power as I could. I destroyed the dragon! It was not enough. The nights felt as if they were getting longer after I performed such a feat. I continued on my way. I became jealous of those with any other power that could rival my own. I crushed the children of Molag Bal as a lesson to those that would try to stop me. As I basked in my own power I was sought out by another... Like me. A fool that wanted to take my power. Solstheim was our battleground- I had been here before. I decimated my foe without remorse. His power became mine. In my final victory I was offered a gift... Knowledge. I regret it now, I was like a skooma addict. I wanted more power and ended up as another pawn to another Daedric Prince. This place feeds on the sanity of man and mer. Little does this beast know, I had sat on the throne of the insane god. I bide my time. When I break free from this Oblivion realm, I will be neither man, mer, or beast. I will be an Agent again, a harbinger to rid Tamriel of the food that feeds these Padomaic beings. I will tear them all from their thrones... If I can remember.
That was actualy an awesome read!
I always wondered why that like of dialogue was there when Parthurnax says that we could hasten the end of the world, but never understood how would that be possible, now I have a way, also I wondered why we never got blind from reading the Elder scroll or why we did not see other information !
I can’t be wrong! I get all my lore exclusively from Fudgemuppet
I'm still a fan of the theory that the Dragonborn is a Shezzarine.
I do agree that this theory makes a lot of sense, and, since it has way more room for sequels than the straightforward "save the world from evil dragon" plot, it's probably going to become canon.