This right here is why the Elder Scrolls has the best lore. It is just so unfathomably rich in history and complexity that you can make theories like this one sound like a National Geographic documentary. Do I like every decision Bethesda have made? No. But I respect them for not taking the easy option
US owned and funded bioweapon labs confirmed in Ukraine, US lied about it AGGRESSIVELY *Fudgemuppet: So anyways check out this in depth Skyrim theory Wish i could blame you... Yall should check out Elden Ring
@@OleDirtyMacSanchez what I mean is it's not in game lore. But the lore runs so deep that you can make a compelling argument with evidence that sounds like its made from documented history. There aren't many fiction universes that can do that
Mr. Scott, as a member _in good standing_ of the Thalmor, I would very much like to know your precise location, and hear of any more “theories” that you might have.
Mr. Ashford, as a member *in good standing* of your mother, I would appreciate it if you left Mr. Scott alone, hopped into the ocean, swam off, and didn't stop until you hit the Summerset Isle. May Talos guide you the whole way.
Humans existing before elves? What’s next, evolution, Nirn revolving around the sun, a round Nirn, the stars being balls of gas instead of tears in the sky left by fleeing gods? Harrumph I say, Harrumph!
I do see what your sayin, been watchin FudgeMuppet for awhile now, and I can say, there essay style videos have more than rivaled some narrator from National Geographic. There videos have gotten really good, and I hope there are tons more to come.
Sonny's done 'naturalist' type vids for GTA5. Have Geoffrey find you one while he gets yoy a gin & tonic and you gently stroke that like button ever so softly.
A point about the role of the beast blood among early Nedes in Skyrim: I would posit that werebeasts among them were almost exclusively werewolves, with werebears being exceedingly rare. Because of Skyrim we think of them in tandem, but this is because the modern Nords are warriors. A bear is strong and incredibly fierce, but they are not hunters, they are omnivores that subsist mostly on plants and eat animals opportunistically. Though war exists among hunter gatherer societies, it is an entirely different phenomenon from war between settled societies. Brief, low mortality, isolated skirmishes compared to protracted campaigns. Though they may have been violent among themselves, these hunger gatherer Nedes were not warriors as we know the term if they were anything like real hunter gatherers, and thus would have little need of the werebear form. The wolf, on the other hand, is a deadly pursuit predator, much like early man. It is the traits of the wolf that their societies would require. The bear would be an afterthought.
Those that did have a werebear were probably in danerous situations that required a dedicated warrior protector. Most likely tribes bordering khajiit or argonian lands. These tribes would be blessed with a werebear solely for village defense, not for hunting.
@@orcmcc Bears are excellent at fishing and foraging. They could easily perform the same as wolves do, if not better, since hunter-gatherers primarily rely on plants and bodies of water to provide for themselves.
@@dashiellgillingham4579 I mean sure but I can't really see the use of superhuman berry finding skills. Humans are just fine at foraging and I feel like eventually you'd hit diminishing returns that you wouldn't with hunting, considering there is game in Skyrim as large as mammoths and who knows if there was even larger megafauna in that era.
13:38 "Being able to transform into a werewolf would've been an amazing advantage when hunting mammoths" >Shows a mammoth yeeting the soul out of a werewolf's body
The Reachmen also seem to revere the constellations or as they call them as "Sky Tales" if you look at Arana dialogue in eso, which is another possible link to the Nedes, you also have all the stag skull imagery in nedic ruins and the antler motif in nedic helms just like the antler motifs wee see in Reachmen helms which could point to Hircine worship. It just makes so much sense that the Reachmen are at least culturally, the closet to thier nedic roots when compared to Bretons and Imperials.
That's the prime reason that I have never killed, and avoid quests that force you to kill, the Forsworn to this day. I can't help but feel theirs is the faction/people that should be MUCH more 3 dimensional and interesting than they are portrayed. Just another narrative victim to Bethesda's severe lack of depth of storytelling and character development.
@@SirMattomaton so true when I see the forsworn charge at me I try to avoid them and I rather be a werewolf because they attack on sight of you’re a vampire . I think my fascination with is from being a Native American and I wished you could befriend all of them instead of one faction.
writing a dissertation on palaeolithic societies while listening to this video is...pure gold. Thank you for reminding me why I fell in love with Skyrim
I really like this theory mainly because it flips everything we understand about Tamriel's origins and the stories we've been told to believe completely on their head. Also with the idea that belief makes myth reality really expands on the relationship the Daedra have with mortals and how a simple change in perspective can seemingly change the nature of how one understands these beings in relation to the world around them and the dominant culture of the time much like real life. It's crazy to think about.
Because we have Mammoths in Skyrim and Terror Birds & Glyptodons in Esweyr in ESO they are prehistoric animals. I can see a possibility of a prehistoric primal Tamriel with prehistoric animals.
It all makes me think that maybe those to be later called Daedra were the original gods of men, and that the Aedra were, perhaps, invaders, who spawned the elves. This would make Chimer, and then Dunmer, traitors or apostates or people who... left their family, I guess. Important to remember: "Aedra" means "our ancestors" and "Daedra" means "not our ancestors." Whose ancestors? The people who push the worship of those particular gods the most -- elves.
Maybe the skaal religion was quite like the old nedic religions considering that they mainly just have the all maker and don't have such a complicated pantheon. It would contradict your idea that Nedes mainly lived in southern Skyrim, but maybe there was a history of cross contact between the northern Nedes and the atmorans that spread the nedic religion to atmoran settlers of solstheim. Being so northern, solstheim was likely where Nord's first settled in tamriel and they could've exchanged culture with the mainland for centuries before the full atmoran host conquered Skyrim with the dragon cult religion
I was wondering if it would be possible that the Skaal are actual Atmorans and that's why they're so different to the Nords we know. Since they keep to themselves mostly and breed amongst themselves there's a chance that some if not all of them ended up actually staying Atmoran?
Could be that the ancient human's culture and territories were much larger, more diverse, and technologicaly advanced than the elves have allowed people in the Elder Scrolls Universe to believe. Much like European Govs and the Natural History Museums in regards to the ancient Norse.
@@OleDirtyMacSanchez I dont think so. From is seen in the games the most human species are unadvanced and primitiv before the creation of the first empire in which soem ayleids kings and their folks were part off they joined Alesia in their revolt and for their loyality were the most of them then murderd by the first empire. The remaining ones fled afther that to high rock in search for protection as refugees by their elven cousins there. Imperial architecture is partly based on the Ayleidian architecture. The humans of Cyriddol slaugther also all of the bird beast men of Cyrodiil. They had settled where today stands the imperial city. The needs were the same primitive barbarians as nords, giants and atmoreans.
@@Kira-is9vu That is the same things that are said of the ancient Norse, but has been proven false. This may be a game but the original writers had the intention of this concept.
See this is one of the reasons i love the elder scrolls series so much, the fans are literally part of the universe. The fans are the historians and archeologists that forge the theories, understandings and records that shape the way the universe is understood. It’s something that not many people talk about but its so unique and special to the elder scrolls.
I think the hagravens are some sort of a remaining of the old cultures that were in Tamriel. Their ritual to transform a human into the bird-person (sacrificing a human to became one within the animal entity, along side werebear and werewolf that also demands one to "lose" their humanity) are already considered something so forbidden that no mage from the actual times can explain, only hags know they almost show that in the quest Repentance (where you find Illia). And the fornsworn are the only ones who are in touch with it. I don't know. Perhaps I'm just trying to find a reason for why they choose to become the bird-people =P but, at the same time, to keep practicing their old magic and knowledge
As an irl indigenous canadian, this exact theory is something I’ve thought about for ages. Much of Skyrim, at its core, and quite a lot of TES lore, is about racism - and I must say, reading about the Nedes and the complete erasure of their indigeneity from Tamriel by the Empire in order to create “unity” and further Nord colonialism, as well as the endless oppression of the Reachfolk, really does draw parallels to personal intergenerstional experiences of myself & family. I’ve always thought that Nedes/Nedic peoples were indigenous to Tamriel, and i’m VERY happy to see a video about it ESPECIALLY from someone like you. This is an outstanding video.
@@bierwolf8360 "Demon-worshippers" because they worship the Daedra? That's basically all of Dark Elf culture and some of Khajiit culture. As for the "savage" part, at least they weren't enslaving and/or killing thousands like the Aylieds, the Dunmer, the Septim Empire, etc.
A decent theory, good ideas, and derived from in-game sources. I think this is fairly likely given what he have, though the Reachmen are still a pain to fight in the early game.
I kind of like them for that, it somewhat fits his theory too because I feel like most enemies in the game are bearable with their scaling even at early levels but the reachmen are almost always at least tougher to fight even with less advanced tools and weapons
I like the idea of forsworn being weak instead. I mean, look at their sword. How is that supposed to harm or do anything to someone in full plate armor?
@@whisperuser7323 no sword should work on even chainmail. Let's not base a fantasy game in reality because you use blunt weapons in real life for a reason. There is a reason they exist and it is because no armor can protect you from blunt force trauma for long
My two cents on the matter : The Nedes are the first race of the human species and are native to Tamriel. Some of them migrated to the north, east, and west (Atmora, Yokuda, and Akavir) in turn making their own unique cultures and adapting into diverse races. The Nedes that stayed in Tamriel were all over the continent but there numbers dwindled down over the years. When the Elves arrived they quickly conquered each major area of Nedic civilization. With Black Marsh they died of disease. With Cyrodiil they were enslaved by the Ayleids. In Hammerfell they were wiped out by the Yokudans, in High Rock they were conquered and assimilated into Direnni society which in turn made the Bretons. In Morrowind the Chimer wiped out the Nedes there. And in Skyrim they lived amongst the Falmer and Dwemer. When the Atmorans (originally Nedes) came back to Tamriel (Skyrim) they mingled with a lot of the Nedic population in the north and somewhat fully assimilated except for the portion that would eventually be called the Reachmen. After driving the Falmer to extinction the Atmorans/Nedes in Skyrim became Nords. While in Cyrodiil a rebellion breaks loose and those slave Nedes partly mingle with the Nords but still remain mostly Nedic and become the Imperials which is subdivided into the Nibenese and Colovians as the first empire is created. The last mostly pure bastion of Nedes are the Reachmen of Skyrim and the Druadach mountains. But I could also possibly see a Pangea type of event that happened where the continents were split after the sundering of Lorkhan but that’s another theory entirely
You are not the only one who wants to believe that nedes are the ancestors of atmorans and nords. But they have no connection. Michael Kirkbride said this : "And for the last time (uh huh), Nedes != Atmorans. That's just shoddy scholarship from a bygone regime." I precise "!=" means "no equal to". According Kirkbride, Tiber Septim made this propaganda (that nedics were proto-nords) to legitimate his reign during the third era.
I would really like this. In most fantasy games both humans and elves (or at least humans) arrive to the land from another undescribed place. It would be nice if they subvert this trope by making the Nedes the original humans and the others just colonies that ended up forgetting about the nedes.
@@anvime739 What about the Kothringi who have metallic looking skin they aren't anything like the other humans and there's no origin for them about where they are from?
@@anvime739 If the Nedes were the original humans from Tamriel while the others were colonies that came to the continent. Then what about the Kothringi people where do they fit in with all of that?
@@dianabuttercup2818 They could be a group of nedes that split up and ended isolated in the marsh. Probably the original humans had previous names before being nedes so perhaps you have a "prehistoric human" group that split one populated the marsh and became isolated and the rest populated the continent and later migrated to altmora
I might be wrong, but is it known how old that cauldron hidden beneath the skyforge which turns you into a werewolf? Presumably if it were made before the Nords arrived, could it have been Nedic made? And the Hircine connection is obvious. Although i might be completely incorrect
At first, when Hircine was being speculated as the god the nedic people believed in, I was at odds with it a bit (I honestly could not tell you why it just felt a bit off I guess). Then the theory goes on...and your jaw kinda drops making some connections. This is a very interesting theory 👍
I think the Merethic Era is much longer than we are told. It just doesn't make sense for all of the events that happened in only 2500 years, it probably was more like 5000. Even by TES standards that is just a bit unreliable
old comment but 2500 years in a LONG time look at the world 2500 years ago, rome didn't even exist then then compare that to 2500 years prior to that. A lot can happen even in a hundred years
@@ciaranmck4469 I knew you would say that, but does it make sense to transition to the convention to the dragon war in only 2000 years? Doesn’t make sense
@@idipped2521 yeah it does. So many things can change in a matter of years let's use another real world example between the year 600 and 800 AD we have the Arab spring in just 2 hundred years islam became the dominant religion in North Africa and the Middle East and they even conquered most of Spain imagine if they would've beaten the French. Remember tamriel is a continent of turmoil its litterly called the Arena and obviously we have the unreliable narrator so we can't be 100% for some of the dates for certain mythic events then you mention the convention which took place in the dawn era which is impossible to date
The Nords believe they were created on the Throat of the World in Skyrim. Does this mean that the Nords are Nedes who immigrated to Atmora from Tamriel?
According Michael Kirkbride, nedes have no connection with atmorans. ""And for the last time (uh huh), Nedes != Atmorans. That's just shoddy scholarship from a bygone regime." he said.
@@noahtylerpritchett2682 oh yes I think this is weird too, but it comes from a Kirkbride quote I found on the 'imperial library' website. In any case it means "no equal to".
I know its random but its most likely true that Skyrim was warmer back then because supposedly it was green in Northern Skyrim when the Atmorans first settled
Yea I heard that theory too. And it is also likely the Nedes traveled to Atmora and evolved. Theory in this video here. th-cam.com/video/935NMPE55l8/w-d-xo.html
I'm only 2 minutes into this video and I already *LOVE* the inclusion of all these different species of Pleistocene megafauna roaming the plains of Skyrim in addition to the vanilla Mammoths and Sabrecats: Paracertherium, Wooly Rhinos, Sivatherium, Glyptodons, Chalicotheres and likely many more! EDIT: I also spy Aurochs, Elasmotherium, Muskox, Giraffes, Mountain Lions (or maybe Cave Lions?), and possibly even the great Arctotherium ("short-faced bear") that was larger than even the modern polar bear.
@@megadong2398 Sivatherium was an ancient cousin of modern giraffes & the okapi that had moose-like horns and lived in what is now India. Glyptodonts were the giant armadillo things protected by a thick domed shell of pebbled armor on their back. Elasmotherium is that big white one-horned rhino thing that is often popularly called "the Siberian Unicorn" (though very recently it's been suggested that Elasmotherium had less of a long & mighty unicorn horn and more of a weird short crest that helped it make musical noise like some kind of mammalian hadrosaur). Aurochs are the now extinct wild ancestors to modern domestic cattle that had great horns and roamed prehistoric European forests. Chalicotheres were weird cousins to horses that had long arms with clawed hands that they knucle-walked on like gorillas or giant ground sloths. Paracertherium (a beast previously known as both Indricotherium & Baluchitherium) was a gigantic hornless rhinoceros that was arguably the largest land mammal to have ever lived (it was either them or Palaeoloxodon, a gigantic extinct elephant that was even bigger than the mammoths). Muskox are a species that's still alive in the real world that, despite their name, are more closely related to goats than oxen.
Guys, this is by far my favorite FudgeMuppet video, I really enjoyed those prehistoric mammal mods and the way you explained the Nedes connection with modern Reachmen
“No one knows who built the Skyforge, where The Companions’ weapons are made. It’s discovery led to the building of Jorvaskar and The Companions as we know them today.” That means whoever built it also built The Underforge where there’s a stone fountain used for werewolf rituals. I wonder if that has anything to do with all this. We know The Skyforge predates Ysgramor’s arrival in Skyrim with the original 500.
if the early nedic tribes built the skyforge and underforge werewolf thing then that could mix in with the reachmen and forsworn myth. hircine the head god of the forsworn is a werewolf guy and if the early needs were hircine worshippers then the undeforge makes a lot of sense
I’ve always had a theory that the khajit are descendants of an ancient weretiger/ werefeline man or mer tribe that became permanent through evolution. Always made sense to me with their births and appearances tied to the moons. Or the tribe was cursed by a deadra to be tied to the moon
I like this narration style. It's a lot more understandable than your usual everything-is-poetry-and-must-be-spoken-rythmically style. It's easier to absorb the words that you speak when you are talking more normally.
I think you're right. One of the many things that have always confounded me, in our history, is how we forget that previous cultures had cities and technologies equal or close to the expansionists that traveled to a given area to supplant the previous people. This appears to hold true in the Elder Scrolls universe as well since so many structures do exist that predate the Elven expansion throughout Cyrodiil, which was long before Ysgramor. Personally, I believe that Mankar Camoran was correct in that Tamriel is another world of Oblivion, just not in the way he was hoping.
Lorewise, wasn't Skyrim _warmer_ in ancient history before the coming of the Nords? If that is the case then life for the Nedes would have been slightly easier (but not by much).
FudgeMuppet, I respect you so much. I’ve had so much negative experience with TES Lorebeards treating the elements they like as gospel, and it’s good to see someone treating the Lore like a genuine historian again. The greatest thing about TES Lore is its uncertainty, and seeing new ideas being brought up in the place of old ones is a beautiful thing
Well we can track Giants and the later converted Sea Giants coming to Skyrim back to the Merethic at least, so Atmora has been making incursions on its coasts for quite some time.
My theory is that Tamriel was once, for lack of a better term, ‘Aldmanis’, Man’s equivalent to the Mer’s Aldmeris. This was way back when Shezzar/Shor/Lorkhan was alive, and ruled over the original ‘Aldmen’ as Auri-El did the Aldmer. There was a great war between the gods of Men and the gods of Mer, reflected in eternal conflict between ‘Aldmen’ and Aldmer. This war ended when Auri-El invited Shezzar to the Adamantine Tower under a flag of truce, only to violate it by having his champion Trinimac slay Shezzar. As Shezzar was the god of Men, the ‘Aldmen’ were affected by his death in many ways, most notably in their lifespan being drastically reduced. The Aldmer then invaded ‘Aldmanis’, causing many of the ‘Aldmen’ to flee across the oceans, becoming the Yokudans, the Atmorans, and vampire-snake-man chow. The ‘Aldmen’ who remained on ‘Aldmanis’, eventually renamed Tamriel, devolved into the Nedes, primitive hunter-gatherers that began to worship Daedra. The Aldmer who colonized Tamriel and enslaved the Nedes became the various kinds of Mer, punished for their ancestor-god’s treachery with the degradation of their blood. Auri-El would eventually be stricken with grief, and seek atonement by forsaking his existence as Auri-El, Gold Brib god of Mer, and becoming Akatosh, Red Dragon god of Men. (Theory: the red dragon was originally Shezzar’s fursona, and Akatosh adopted it as tribute.)
I like the idea of the proto-nords specifically being these primitive, fur wearing people with advanced metallurgy. They have a natural small bonus to smithing in the game, and it just makes me think of the Cimmerians as portrayed in Conan the Barbarian, who were these primitive hunter gatherers who despite their seeming backwardness, were skilled smiths.
I don't comment often but I just wanted to say it is actually so cool to see the lessons with Heavy Burns take effect in your guys editing style. The little sound effect touches on the B-Roll were perfect, keep up the good work!
the cinematography is always one of my favorite aspects of your videos, it stands out especially in this video!! would love a continuation of this theme, maybe the flora and fauna of skyrim?
Great and believable theory! Personally, I would add that - after the sundering of Lorkhan - a lot of the early(/progenitors of) humans (Ehlnofey) were likely chased out of Tamriel (to Atmora, thus becoming Atmorans) while those who remained became the Nedic Tribes over time. Skyforge could be a remnant of the Ehlnofey war, which is why the Elves feared it. Just my 2 cents.
This theory makes a lot of sense and I agree with it to an extent. But also think the Atmorans have a slightly bigger influence in conjunction with the theory.
The Whiterun plains were probably a large forest that they used to build Whiterun. Much like the American plains that were forested hundreds of years ago.
It’s never been a secret that the Reachmen worship Hircine and likely a selection of other Daedra but it’s fun to think about just how long they’ve been doing so. Far longer than anyone has been believed if this video had any weight.
The morw likely scenario is the reachmen were scaped slaves hiding in the wild, but that doesnt answer if the hircine cult resisted slavery or the fugitives turnes to hircine foe protection.
I wonder if perhaps the Sky Forge is the Stone associated with Snow-Throat, the Tower of Skyrim? Perhaps the Tiid-Ahraan atop Snow-Throat is the more likely candidate, being a "cave" of sorts, and being deactivated before the end of the game, as seems to be a running theme with Towers... Still, it would explain why the Sky Forge appears to be as old as Tamriel itself.
What I always found interesting in Skyrim was both the Sky forge and the Lunar steel forge. Both give special advantages that you could only get at those places, and it isn’t known how they were made. There’s definitely a connection.
The Nords aren't pure Atmoran. They are a mix amalgamation hybridized population of half Proto-Atmoran half Nedic ancestry. After all if the Nords and Giants have a common ancestry the Giants went through the process of "sexual selective gigantism" whereas the Nords did not. Before Nord and Giant diverged, the Atmorans used to be larger, (ignore Ysgramor in the game that's just game limitations we know lore wise they were larger despite Ysgramor being shorter in Sovngarde) obviously Nords with highest Nedic ancestry is Falkreath and Markarth Nords, and too a lesser extent Whiterun, Morthal and Solitude hold Nords, whereas the Nords with the lowest Nedic ancestry and most Atmoran ancestry is Dawnstar, Winterhold, Windhelm and Riften hold, which coincidentally and conveniently correlate with the old Holds which correlate with Stormcloak regions. Meaning Nedic blood western Skyrim naturally likes the empire unlike Atmoran blood eastern Skyrim. The Nordic race in Elder Scrolls has two ethnicities and sub cultural groups. Semi Nedic west Skyrim Nords, and Semi Atmoran East Skyrim Nords. Falkreath Nords would have the highest Nedic ancestry lowest Atmoran ancestry, number one they border Cyrodiil so Imperial admixture comes into play, and number two sheer geography of Nedic survivors, as for the Most Atmoran ancestry group it's likely Windhelm hold that has the least Nedic ancestry and the most Atmoran ancestry. Both are still Nords of course. Falkreath and Windhelm. Falkreath crest is literally a damn elk. And most people in Falkreath have black hair and brown eyes, unlike Windhelm Nords who are blonder and blue eyed.
@@lazilycatharticone4191 the Roscreans are likely a pure Atmoran race. In Skyrim every Nord has at least one drop of Nedic blood. Roscrea as a culture and race can self develop without Elven cultural influence the Nords would receive from Dunmer and Chimer to the East, Alyieds to the South, Direnni to the high rock west and Dwemer and Falmer influence within. And obviously the Nedic influence of religion. There's videos on traditional extremely traditional Nordic religions, before Skyrim we see this in older Elder Scrolls games, obviously Imperial Cyrodilic assimilation changed that. So Roscreans as a race and religion probably resemble ancient Atmorans the most. Dna isn't a concept but if we were to pretend, Than Ysgramor if he did a DNA test would resemble the Roscreans the most. Not so strongly or so much the Skyrim Nords. Who are part Nede to one varying degree or another.
I did a Nede Playthrough when I first watched this video, stuck mostly to fur armour (stealth archery and werewolf mode made it easier) and stayed away from cities and mostly did deadra quests and cave dungeons, it was short lived but pretty fun, especially strafing giant camps with bows on horseback
"the ability to transform into a werewolf or a werebear would be an unbelievable advantage when facing a mammoth" werewolf proceeds to get wrecked by mammoth on screen
This is by far my favorite theory and what I've actually believed before this video coming out. I don't feed into the notion that Nedes had just migrated from atmora before the Nords, that would just make them Nords but nedes and Nords have no relation. Heres what I believe: During the dawn era, all the continents were together in a sort of Pangea type situation, old ehlnofey (ancestors to elves) come to being and fortify themselves in Aldmeris, wandering ehlnofey (ancestors to men) come to existence scattered over nirn having to exist in the chaos of the world literally being shaped and formed. Then obviously Nords created separately by Kyne when she breathed down the throat of the world. Now the continent breaks up and separates, creating Tamriel, yokuda, akavir and of course Atmora, all filled with their own race of man, Tamriel nedes, atmora Nords, yokuda redguards, and akavirians before they got eaten by the tsaesci.
The comparison with modern historical academia is pretty funny. How evidence of human settlement in the Americas (Tamriel) has been found that predates the Bearing ice bridge theory, how the out of Africa (Atmora) theory is beginning to crack, and how big academia (Thalmor) is fully entrenched so far as to ignore or discredit any evidence that goes against their theory
Honestly just seeing those visuals makes me wish Bethesda really leaned into the more prehistoric fauna present in Skyrim. Mammoths and Sabercats are cool, but I really wish they went all in instead of settling with the standard Deer, Elk and Bear. Would've made Skyrim stand out even more as a province in my opinion. Something truly different from the previous game's fauna.
Great video I wonder if you guys will ever do a video on prehistoric High Rock or prehistoric Hammerfell with tribal Nedeic people living in those areas.
@@egegul6343 than that wouldn't prehistoric if we added those ruins (before being ruins) but that wouldn't be prehistoric, it would be early historic. I mean pre Elf and pre Nord, that early.
Awesome video, and what a cool theory. You made me a believer! Also this channels videos have become so much more cinematic! You guys are really outdoing yourselves! It does not go unnoticed.
Scott's editing skills are getting increasing more impressive. With the skyrim builds becoming more like short films with the backstories, I believe making some short roleplay films are not out of reach. Would love to see that in the future.
Don't get me wrong, I love ES OSTs but it was great to hear some fresh background music. It fit the video really well - where's it from? Or maybe I'm dumb and it's from ESO?
I actually have a theory on the Greybeards calling to you I don't think it's entirely as described in game as a call to teach you more, rather if you recall what Esbern says about when a Dragon speaks another Dragons name while channeling the voice, its a challenge and the pride of a dovah forces them to accept the challenge. The greybeards collectively calling out Dovahkiin when you slay Mirmulniir I believe they are actually challenging the Dragonborn to take the mantle and only by accepting their challenge is it that you truly mantle being Dovahkiin
It would be interesting to look at these proto-Nordic cultures and compare them to early Bosmer history, especially concerning their connection with Khajiit. The shape shifting, different forms, hunter/gatherer, Hircine worship, and such mirrors much of what you've discussed here.
Nirn is a user driven simulation being developed by someone in Fallout. Nearly everyone is an npc except the Aedra/Daedra, who were scientists/engineers/executives that chose to plug in and build their own world after the "success" of the vault 112 experiment. I'm guessing the PC's throughout the series are either additional humans jumping into the world like the Lone Wanderer, or "self aware" programs whose destiny is repeatedly foretold and expressed through the elder scrolls (computer code that makes up the simulation engine) Edit* this is a theory obviously
If the story of Ysgramor being the first human on tamriel is false I wonder what other parts of history have been altered or forgotten for the sake of political, religious, or nationalistic convenience on Tamriel. And that's not even taking Dragon Breaks into account. For example, what if Tamriel is *far* older than the creation myths would have us believe? In our own world it was (and in some places still is) a common belief that the world is only 6,000 years old for quite some time. And let's not forget all the incorrect theories about the sun and the stars, and the Geocentric model of the universe being mainstream up until the renaissance. If our understanding about the games mythology and history comes from biased, or otherwise untrustworthy sources we may need to challenge our own views on the Elder Scrolls Universe. In fact, thinking about it, that might make an interesting premise for 6 or 7. Tamriel experiencing a cultural and scientific revolution similar to our worlds renaissance and age of enlightenment.
I think you forgot about Rorikstead. Scrapped because it is illegal to display scenes of kids dying, that village in the Reach and its rituals may play a part in painting a more detailed and yet different picture than the one so far discussed.
Is there a mod that adds additional prehistoric mammals to Skyrim?! I'd love to hunt giant sloths, Paraceratheriums, Indricotheriums (these two make mammoths look like cows), short-faced bears, Andrewsarchus, etc.
You know why I might think so? They took a lot of inspiration from LOTR, in that lore- the dwarves were technically the first to walk the lands but because the elves were supposed to be the first race the dwarves were put back to sleep. Bethesda might have taken some inspiration from Tolkien in this regard to.
Trying to remember the in-game source, but it is strongly implied that the nedes were in Tamriel before the elves. ESO had Craglorn (the region in Hammerfell between Skyrim and Cyrodiil) as the last bastion of the nedes. Lots of star worship, daedric worship, and some of the few megalithic structures made by the nedes.
I absolutely love this idea. I’ve long held the belief that the dwemer never disappeared, they just forgot who they were. I believe the dwarves were early man and whatever cataclysm befell them resulted in a cultural amnesia. Having humans in Tamriel in the mithraic gives them all the time they need to develop their tonal magic and architecture to build the underground civilization. Especially if they had experienced some kind of ice age that drove them underground. This would only have been part of the population though with other humans remaining on the surface and continue worshiping the daedra. I have similar ideas about the orc origins being a lie but that’s a different topic.
I question that theory though, because there were dwarves fighting at the battle of the red mountain in the first era that just straight up vanished and there are accounts of this.
I may be mistaken but doesn’t that information come from Vivec? A lot of the history we are presented is bias in favor of whoever is presenting it, especially when talking about the racial origins and gods. Look at the orcs for example. Or Tiber Septim. I’m sure something happened when they struck the heart of lorkan but I wonder if the dwemer actually all vanished. After all, we do meet one in morrowind but he’s become a half machine abomination by that point. Heck, he looks more like a squat orc or dark elf than anything else.
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This right here is why the Elder Scrolls has the best lore. It is just so unfathomably rich in history and complexity that you can make theories like this one sound like a National Geographic documentary. Do I like every decision Bethesda have made? No. But I respect them for not taking the easy option
What music did you use?
US owned and funded bioweapon labs confirmed in Ukraine, US lied about it AGGRESSIVELY
*Fudgemuppet: So anyways check out this in depth Skyrim theory
Wish i could blame you... Yall should check out Elden Ring
I believe this is not a theory, but a fact. As it does make the most logical sense.
@@OleDirtyMacSanchez what I mean is it's not in game lore. But the lore runs so deep that you can make a compelling argument with evidence that sounds like its made from documented history. There aren't many fiction universes that can do that
Mr. Scott, as a member _in good standing_ of the Thalmor, I would very much like to know your precise location, and hear of any more “theories” that you might have.
"Ha! Skyrim will never bow to the thalmor" Galmar stonefist
Mr. Ashford, as a member *in good standing* of your mother, I would appreciate it if you left Mr. Scott alone, hopped into the ocean, swam off, and didn't stop until you hit the Summerset Isle. May Talos guide you the whole way.
@@bigsmoke5884 "I don't like you... I think you're a heretic. And so, you will die a heretic's death."
@@cyrus8432 "i will not live as a slave, nor die as one"
Never understood the concern with the Thalmor. They always die quickly when I encounter them. Do they actually bother people?
I've never considered a prehistoric Skyrim before, but now I really want to play in it.
So YOU'RE the source of all those poor Drauger. You monster.
@@kaneo1 Draugr*
They call him…Dinokin
Skyrim Primal.
Check out episode 1 of Adventures of the Dragonborn out NOW ‼️
Episode 2 coming August 25th
Humans existing before elves? What’s next, evolution, Nirn revolving around the sun, a round Nirn, the stars being balls of gas instead of tears in the sky left by fleeing gods? Harrumph I say, Harrumph!
This sounds like a Grudging.... wait wrong fantasy series
I believe that lol
Just another legend like the grey fox
You win this commentsection
What about the Eye of Magnus being a stasis pod for a robot from far future? 😆
I really like the cinimatic production quality on these videos. Imagine if there was a nature documentary type one done in Skyrim.
I do see what your sayin, been watchin FudgeMuppet for awhile now, and I can say, there essay style videos have more than rivaled some narrator from National Geographic. There videos have gotten really good, and I hope there are tons more to come.
Those dancing Nedes made my frickin day.
Someone has a breath of the wild one with bokoblins. Thats as close as we'll get for now
Heavy Burns did a 'Creatures of Nirn' video which was exactly that. Got a voice actor to narrate it and everything.
Sonny's done 'naturalist' type vids for GTA5. Have Geoffrey find you one while he gets yoy a gin & tonic and you gently stroke that like button ever so softly.
A point about the role of the beast blood among early Nedes in Skyrim:
I would posit that werebeasts among them were almost exclusively werewolves, with werebears being exceedingly rare. Because of Skyrim we think of them in tandem, but this is because the modern Nords are warriors. A bear is strong and incredibly fierce, but they are not hunters, they are omnivores that subsist mostly on plants and eat animals opportunistically. Though war exists among hunter gatherer societies, it is an entirely different phenomenon from war between settled societies. Brief, low mortality, isolated skirmishes compared to protracted campaigns. Though they may have been violent among themselves, these hunger gatherer Nedes were not warriors as we know the term if they were anything like real hunter gatherers, and thus would have little need of the werebear form.
The wolf, on the other hand, is a deadly pursuit predator, much like early man. It is the traits of the wolf that their societies would require. The bear would be an afterthought.
Those that did have a werebear were probably in danerous situations that required a dedicated warrior protector. Most likely tribes bordering khajiit or argonian lands. These tribes would be blessed with a werebear solely for village defense, not for hunting.
@@orcmcc Bears are excellent at fishing and foraging. They could easily perform the same as wolves do, if not better, since hunter-gatherers primarily rely on plants and bodies of water to provide for themselves.
@@dashiellgillingham4579 I mean sure but I can't really see the use of superhuman berry finding skills. Humans are just fine at foraging and I feel like eventually you'd hit diminishing returns that you wouldn't with hunting, considering there is game in Skyrim as large as mammoths and who knows if there was even larger megafauna in that era.
13:38 "Being able to transform into a werewolf would've been an amazing advantage when hunting mammoths"
>Shows a mammoth yeeting the soul out of a werewolf's body
The Reachmen also seem to revere the constellations or as they call them as "Sky Tales" if you look at Arana dialogue in eso, which is another possible link to the Nedes, you also have all the stag skull imagery in nedic ruins and the antler motif in nedic helms just like the antler motifs wee see in Reachmen helms which could point to Hircine worship. It just makes so much sense that the Reachmen are at least culturally, the closet to thier nedic roots when compared to Bretons and Imperials.
Craglorn is where the lore goes to die.
@@joaojeffersoncavalcantiwan812 I disagree. I liked how Craglorn has offshoots of both the Nedes and Orcs instead of making each race one monoculture.
That's the prime reason that I have never killed, and avoid quests that force you to kill, the Forsworn to this day. I can't help but feel theirs is the faction/people that should be MUCH more 3 dimensional and interesting than they are portrayed. Just another narrative victim to Bethesda's severe lack of depth of storytelling and character development.
@@SirMattomaton so true when I see the forsworn charge at me I try to avoid them and I rather be a werewolf because they attack on sight of you’re a vampire . I think my fascination with is from being a Native American and I wished you could befriend all of them instead of one faction.
I’ve always liked the forsworn I never killed them just rode past quickly lol
writing a dissertation on palaeolithic societies while listening to this video is...pure gold. Thank you for reminding me why I fell in love with Skyrim
I really like this theory mainly because it flips everything we understand about Tamriel's origins and the stories we've been told to believe completely on their head. Also with the idea that belief makes myth reality really expands on the relationship the Daedra have with mortals and how a simple change in perspective can seemingly change the nature of how one understands these beings in relation to the world around them and the dominant culture of the time much like real life. It's crazy to think about.
Because we have Mammoths in Skyrim and Terror Birds & Glyptodons in Esweyr in ESO they are prehistoric animals. I can see a possibility of a prehistoric primal Tamriel with prehistoric animals.
It all makes me think that maybe those to be later called Daedra were the original gods of men, and that the Aedra were, perhaps, invaders, who spawned the elves. This would make Chimer, and then Dunmer, traitors or apostates or people who... left their family, I guess. Important to remember: "Aedra" means "our ancestors" and "Daedra" means "not our ancestors." Whose ancestors? The people who push the worship of those particular gods the most -- elves.
That's pretty much nothing we know everything but at the same time we know nothing
Maybe the skaal religion was quite like the old nedic religions considering that they mainly just have the all maker and don't have such a complicated pantheon. It would contradict your idea that Nedes mainly lived in southern Skyrim, but maybe there was a history of cross contact between the northern Nedes and the atmorans that spread the nedic religion to atmoran settlers of solstheim. Being so northern, solstheim was likely where Nord's first settled in tamriel and they could've exchanged culture with the mainland for centuries before the full atmoran host conquered Skyrim with the dragon cult religion
I was wondering if it would be possible that the Skaal are actual Atmorans and that's why they're so different to the Nords we know. Since they keep to themselves mostly and breed amongst themselves there's a chance that some if not all of them ended up actually staying Atmoran?
The Skaal seems more likely to be atmorean decendents than nords or need decendents.
Could be that the ancient human's culture and territories were much larger, more diverse, and technologicaly advanced than the elves have allowed people in the Elder Scrolls Universe to believe. Much like European Govs and the Natural History Museums in regards to the ancient Norse.
@@OleDirtyMacSanchez I dont think so. From is seen in the games the most human species are unadvanced and primitiv before the creation of the first empire in which soem ayleids kings and their folks were part off they joined Alesia in their revolt and for their loyality were the most of them then murderd by the first empire. The remaining ones fled afther that to high rock in search for protection as refugees by their elven cousins there. Imperial architecture is partly based on the Ayleidian architecture. The humans of Cyriddol slaugther also all of the bird beast men of Cyrodiil. They had settled where today stands the imperial city. The needs were the same primitive barbarians as nords, giants and atmoreans.
@@Kira-is9vu That is the same things that are said of the ancient Norse, but has been proven false. This may be a game but the original writers had the intention of this concept.
See this is one of the reasons i love the elder scrolls series so much, the fans are literally part of the universe. The fans are the historians and archeologists that forge the theories, understandings and records that shape the way the universe is understood. It’s something that not many people talk about but its so unique and special to the elder scrolls.
I think the hagravens are some sort of a remaining of the old cultures that were in Tamriel.
Their ritual to transform a human into the bird-person (sacrificing a human to became one within the animal entity, along side werebear and werewolf that also demands one to "lose" their humanity) are already considered something so forbidden that no mage from the actual times can explain, only hags know they almost show that in the quest Repentance (where you find Illia). And the fornsworn are the only ones who are in touch with it.
I don't know. Perhaps I'm just trying to find a reason for why they choose to become the bird-people =P but, at the same time, to keep practicing their old magic and knowledge
Ok that ice age fauna mod looks cool.
I need to find it
As an irl indigenous canadian, this exact theory is something I’ve thought about for ages. Much of Skyrim, at its core, and quite a lot of TES lore, is about racism - and I must say, reading about the Nedes and the complete erasure of their indigeneity from Tamriel by the Empire in order to create “unity” and further Nord colonialism, as well as the endless oppression of the Reachfolk, really does draw parallels to personal intergenerstional experiences of myself & family. I’ve always thought that Nedes/Nedic peoples were indigenous to Tamriel, and i’m VERY happy to see a video about it ESPECIALLY from someone like you. This is an outstanding video.
lmao, imagine relating to demon-worshipping savages and thinking you're the good guy because you throw out terms like "colonialism"
@@bierwolf8360 "Demon-worshippers" because they worship the Daedra? That's basically all of Dark Elf culture and some of Khajiit culture. As for the "savage" part, at least they weren't enslaving and/or killing thousands like the Aylieds, the Dunmer, the Septim Empire, etc.
A decent theory, good ideas, and derived from in-game sources. I think this is fairly likely given what he have, though the Reachmen are still a pain to fight in the early game.
The Reachmen are still a pain even if i played on Novice as a level 40 character.
@@noahtylerpritchett2682 nothings a pain when you fortify-restoration loop
I kind of like them for that, it somewhat fits his theory too because I feel like most enemies in the game are bearable with their scaling even at early levels but the reachmen are almost always at least tougher to fight even with less advanced tools and weapons
I like the idea of forsworn being weak instead. I mean, look at their sword. How is that supposed to harm or do anything to someone in full plate armor?
@@whisperuser7323 no sword should work on even chainmail. Let's not base a fantasy game in reality because you use blunt weapons in real life for a reason. There is a reason they exist and it is because no armor can protect you from blunt force trauma for long
My two cents on the matter : The Nedes are the first race of the human species and are native to Tamriel. Some of them migrated to the north, east, and west (Atmora, Yokuda, and Akavir) in turn making their own unique cultures and adapting into diverse races. The Nedes that stayed in Tamriel were all over the continent but there numbers dwindled down over the years. When the Elves arrived they quickly conquered each major area of Nedic civilization. With Black Marsh they died of disease. With Cyrodiil they were enslaved by the Ayleids. In Hammerfell they were wiped out by the Yokudans, in High Rock they were conquered and assimilated into Direnni society which in turn made the Bretons. In Morrowind the Chimer wiped out the Nedes there. And in Skyrim they lived amongst the Falmer and Dwemer. When the Atmorans (originally Nedes) came back to Tamriel (Skyrim) they mingled with a lot of the Nedic population in the north and somewhat fully assimilated except for the portion that would eventually be called the Reachmen. After driving the Falmer to extinction the Atmorans/Nedes in Skyrim became Nords. While in Cyrodiil a rebellion breaks loose and those slave Nedes partly mingle with the Nords but still remain mostly Nedic and become the Imperials which is subdivided into the Nibenese and Colovians as the first empire is created. The last mostly pure bastion of Nedes are the Reachmen of Skyrim and the Druadach mountains.
But I could also possibly see a Pangea type of event that happened where the continents were split after the sundering of Lorkhan but that’s another theory entirely
You are not the only one who wants to believe that nedes are the ancestors of atmorans and nords. But they have no connection.
Michael Kirkbride said this : "And for the last time (uh huh), Nedes != Atmorans. That's just shoddy scholarship from a bygone regime."
I precise "!=" means "no equal to".
According Kirkbride, Tiber Septim made this propaganda (that nedics were proto-nords) to legitimate his reign during the third era.
I would really like this. In most fantasy games both humans and elves (or at least humans) arrive to the land from another undescribed place. It would be nice if they subvert this trope by making the Nedes the original humans and the others just colonies that ended up forgetting about the nedes.
@@anvime739
What about the Kothringi who have metallic looking skin they aren't anything like the other humans and there's no origin for them about where they are from?
@@anvime739
If the Nedes were the original humans from Tamriel while the others were colonies that came to the continent. Then what about the Kothringi people where do they fit in with all of that?
@@dianabuttercup2818 They could be a group of nedes that split up and ended isolated in the marsh. Probably the original humans had previous names before being nedes so perhaps you have a "prehistoric human" group that split one populated the marsh and became isolated and the rest populated the continent and later migrated to altmora
I might be wrong, but is it known how old that cauldron hidden beneath the skyforge which turns you into a werewolf?
Presumably if it were made before the Nords arrived, could it have been Nedic made? And the Hircine connection is obvious.
Although i might be completely incorrect
Am I misremembering, thinking that it was Aela's blood that turned you into a werewolf?
You places Hircine's totems there as well right? If so, it's gotta be likely it's an ancient ritual site
@@kck-kck879 You are right it is Aela`s blood
At first, when Hircine was being speculated as the god the nedic people believed in, I was at odds with it a bit (I honestly could not tell you why it just felt a bit off I guess). Then the theory goes on...and your jaw kinda drops making some connections. This is a very interesting theory 👍
I think the Merethic Era is much longer than we are told. It just doesn't make sense for all of the events that happened in only 2500 years, it probably was more like 5000. Even by TES standards that is just a bit unreliable
old comment but 2500 years in a LONG time
look at the world 2500 years ago, rome didn't even exist then
then compare that to 2500 years prior to that. A lot can happen even in a hundred years
@@ciaranmck4469 actually, Rome came into existence in 700 BC, which was 2700 years ago
@@idipped2521 by 'rome' I generally meant when at least the roman Republic was formed not the roman kingdom but you get my point anyway
@@ciaranmck4469 I knew you would say that, but does it make sense to transition to the convention to the dragon war in only 2000 years? Doesn’t make sense
@@idipped2521 yeah it does. So many things can change in a matter of years let's use another real world example between the year 600 and 800 AD we have the Arab spring in just 2 hundred years islam became the dominant religion in North Africa and the Middle East and they even conquered most of Spain imagine if they would've beaten the French. Remember tamriel is a continent of turmoil its litterly called the Arena and obviously we have the unreliable narrator so we can't be 100% for some of the dates for certain mythic events then you mention the convention which took place in the dawn era which is impossible to date
The Nords believe they were created on the Throat of the World in Skyrim.
Does this mean that the Nords are Nedes who immigrated to Atmora from Tamriel?
Likely but unknown. th-cam.com/video/935NMPE55l8/w-d-xo.html
This might help
According Michael Kirkbride, nedes have no connection with atmorans. ""And for the last time (uh huh), Nedes != Atmorans. That's just shoddy scholarship from a bygone regime." he said.
@@v.h.6343 it's =/= not !=
@@noahtylerpritchett2682 oh yes I think this is weird too, but it comes from a Kirkbride quote I found on the 'imperial library' website. In any case it means "no equal to".
@@v.h.6343 odd.
I know its random but its most likely true that Skyrim was warmer back then because supposedly it was green in Northern Skyrim when the Atmorans first settled
Yea I heard that theory too.
And it is also likely the Nedes traveled to Atmora and evolved.
Theory in this video here.
th-cam.com/video/935NMPE55l8/w-d-xo.html
The Nords fled Atmora because of an ice age, so I assume Skyrim became colder too.
@@badluck5647 yes over time but it used to be all green
I'm only 2 minutes into this video and I already *LOVE* the inclusion of all these different species of Pleistocene megafauna roaming the plains of Skyrim in addition to the vanilla Mammoths and Sabrecats: Paracertherium, Wooly Rhinos, Sivatherium, Glyptodons, Chalicotheres and likely many more!
EDIT: I also spy Aurochs, Elasmotherium, Muskox, Giraffes, Mountain Lions (or maybe Cave Lions?), and possibly even the great Arctotherium ("short-faced bear") that was larger than even the modern polar bear.
What
@@megadong2398 Sivatherium was an ancient cousin of modern giraffes & the okapi that had moose-like horns and lived in what is now India.
Glyptodonts were the giant armadillo things protected by a thick domed shell of pebbled armor on their back.
Elasmotherium is that big white one-horned rhino thing that is often popularly called "the Siberian Unicorn" (though very recently it's been suggested that Elasmotherium had less of a long & mighty unicorn horn and more of a weird short crest that helped it make musical noise like some kind of mammalian hadrosaur).
Aurochs are the now extinct wild ancestors to modern domestic cattle that had great horns and roamed prehistoric European forests.
Chalicotheres were weird cousins to horses that had long arms with clawed hands that they knucle-walked on like gorillas or giant ground sloths.
Paracertherium (a beast previously known as both Indricotherium & Baluchitherium) was a gigantic hornless rhinoceros that was arguably the largest land mammal to have ever lived (it was either them or Palaeoloxodon, a gigantic extinct elephant that was even bigger than the mammoths).
Muskox are a species that's still alive in the real world that, despite their name, are more closely related to goats than oxen.
@@Serpentking789 there's no way those are real words
@@megadong2398 They are and they're the names of creatures featured in this video. Go look them up, you're on the internet.
@@Serpentking789 hey no need to be like that buddy
Guys, this is by far my favorite FudgeMuppet video, I really enjoyed those prehistoric mammal mods and the way you explained the Nedes connection with modern Reachmen
“No one knows who built the Skyforge, where The Companions’ weapons are made. It’s discovery led to the building of Jorvaskar and The Companions as we know them today.” That means whoever built it also built The Underforge where there’s a stone fountain used for werewolf rituals. I wonder if that has anything to do with all this. We know The Skyforge predates Ysgramor’s arrival in Skyrim with the original 500.
if the early nedic tribes built the skyforge and underforge werewolf thing then that could mix in with the reachmen and forsworn myth. hircine the head god of the forsworn is a werewolf guy and if the early needs were hircine worshippers then the undeforge makes a lot of sense
@@mtnmanofcolorado Heck yeah!
Would love to see a prehistoric Skyrim mod. It'll have to clear 90% of the worldspace but it would be neat
I’ve always had a theory that the khajit are descendants of an ancient weretiger/ werefeline man or mer tribe that became permanent through evolution. Always made sense to me with their births and appearances tied to the moons. Or the tribe was cursed by a deadra to be tied to the moon
I just wanted to let you guys know, I love all you content. Thank you for making epic videos.
I second that 👍👍
I like this narration style. It's a lot more understandable than your usual everything-is-poetry-and-must-be-spoken-rythmically style. It's easier to absorb the words that you speak when you are talking more normally.
I think you're right. One of the many things that have always confounded me, in our history, is how we forget that previous cultures had cities and technologies equal or close to the expansionists that traveled to a given area to supplant the previous people. This appears to hold true in the Elder Scrolls universe as well since so many structures do exist that predate the Elven expansion throughout Cyrodiil, which was long before Ysgramor. Personally, I believe that Mankar Camoran was correct in that Tamriel is another world of Oblivion, just not in the way he was hoping.
What if it is specifically hircine's realm? Like that's why they do a hunt every 1000 years like Jyggalag on their realm?
Lorewise, wasn't Skyrim _warmer_ in ancient history before the coming of the Nords? If that is the case then life for the Nedes would have been slightly easier (but not by much).
FudgeMuppet, I respect you so much. I’ve had so much negative experience with TES Lorebeards treating the elements they like as gospel, and it’s good to see someone treating the Lore like a genuine historian again. The greatest thing about TES Lore is its uncertainty, and seeing new ideas being brought up in the place of old ones is a beautiful thing
You took the words right from my mind. TES lore is best when it's ambiguous much like irl history
Well we can track Giants and the later converted Sea Giants coming to Skyrim back to the Merethic at least, so Atmora has been making incursions on its coasts for quite some time.
My theory is that Tamriel was once, for lack of a better term, ‘Aldmanis’, Man’s equivalent to the Mer’s Aldmeris.
This was way back when Shezzar/Shor/Lorkhan was alive, and ruled over the original ‘Aldmen’ as Auri-El did the Aldmer. There was a great war between the gods of Men and the gods of Mer, reflected in eternal conflict between ‘Aldmen’ and Aldmer. This war ended when Auri-El invited Shezzar to the Adamantine Tower under a flag of truce, only to violate it by having his champion Trinimac slay Shezzar. As Shezzar was the god of Men, the ‘Aldmen’ were affected by his death in many ways, most notably in their lifespan being drastically reduced. The Aldmer then invaded ‘Aldmanis’, causing many of the ‘Aldmen’ to flee across the oceans, becoming the Yokudans, the Atmorans, and vampire-snake-man chow. The ‘Aldmen’ who remained on ‘Aldmanis’, eventually renamed Tamriel, devolved into the Nedes, primitive hunter-gatherers that began to worship Daedra. The Aldmer who colonized Tamriel and enslaved the Nedes became the various kinds of Mer, punished for their ancestor-god’s treachery with the degradation of their blood.
Auri-El would eventually be stricken with grief, and seek atonement by forsaking his existence as Auri-El, Gold Brib god of Mer, and becoming Akatosh, Red Dragon god of Men. (Theory: the red dragon was originally Shezzar’s fursona, and Akatosh adopted it as tribute.)
I like the idea of the proto-nords specifically being these primitive, fur wearing people with advanced metallurgy. They have a natural small bonus to smithing in the game, and it just makes me think of the Cimmerians as portrayed in Conan the Barbarian, who were these primitive hunter gatherers who despite their seeming backwardness, were skilled smiths.
The Skal do give that Conan impression. They know how to forge stahlrim
Ysgramor what is best in life!?
Many want to believe nedes are the ancestors of atmorans and nords, but they have no connection.
@@kalebb1226 To crush the Elves, see them driven before you and hear the lamentations of their women.
@@carbonjohnson6414 Ah! This is good!
I don't comment often but I just wanted to say it is actually so cool to see the lessons with Heavy Burns take effect in your guys editing style. The little sound effect touches on the B-Roll were perfect, keep up the good work!
The cinematography on this channel gets better with every video.
the cinematography is always one of my favorite aspects of your videos, it stands out especially in this video!! would love a continuation of this theme, maybe the flora and fauna of skyrim?
Great and believable theory! Personally, I would add that - after the sundering of Lorkhan - a lot of the early(/progenitors of) humans (Ehlnofey) were likely chased out of Tamriel (to Atmora, thus becoming Atmorans) while those who remained became the Nedic Tribes over time. Skyforge could be a remnant of the Ehlnofey war, which is why the Elves feared it. Just my 2 cents.
I think the sky forge was used by the aldmer and the lunar forge by men
@@Wahatoyas Then why did the elves fear it?
@@badluck5647 maybe its what sundered them. Their victory spit apart the continents
This theory makes a lot of sense and I agree with it to an extent. But also think the Atmorans have a slightly bigger influence in conjunction with the theory.
Thank you! I was JUST looking for a new fudgemuppet video! You guys never fail!
That was amazing. Im a kiwi tour guide at Uluru. Love learning about Indigenous cultures. This was really well done, thank you sir
Great video! Can we get a mod list? the Mega fauna were great and the nedic bronze swords looked incredible.
The Whiterun plains were probably a large forest that they used to build Whiterun. Much like the American plains that were forested hundreds of years ago.
What a video. I'm continuously impressed with the quality of these. And of course, a really interesting theory
My 2 nerdy interest in evolution/prehistoric humans & over analysis of video game lore has never been brought together so well.
After hearing graham hanckock and paul wallis/5th kind, playing skyrim has not been the same.
Same lol.
It’s never been a secret that the Reachmen worship Hircine and likely a selection of other Daedra but it’s fun to think about just how long they’ve been doing so. Far longer than anyone has been believed if this video had any weight.
The morw likely scenario is the reachmen were scaped slaves hiding in the wild, but that doesnt answer if the hircine cult resisted slavery or the fugitives turnes to hircine foe protection.
I imagine Hircine was a more important figure to man before the introduction of farming.
I wonder if perhaps the Sky Forge is the Stone associated with Snow-Throat, the Tower of Skyrim?
Perhaps the Tiid-Ahraan atop Snow-Throat is the more likely candidate, being a "cave" of sorts, and being deactivated before the end of the game, as seems to be a running theme with Towers...
Still, it would explain why the Sky Forge appears to be as old as Tamriel itself.
I love how listening to podcast episodes and what they talk about leads up to a regular video and the theory they talk about.
You can say that the Needs of the many outweigh the Needs of the few.
What I always found interesting in Skyrim was both the Sky forge and the Lunar steel forge. Both give special advantages that you could only get at those places, and it isn’t known how they were made. There’s definitely a connection.
The Nords aren't pure Atmoran. They are a mix amalgamation hybridized population of half Proto-Atmoran half Nedic ancestry. After all if the Nords and Giants have a common ancestry the Giants went through the process of "sexual selective gigantism" whereas the Nords did not. Before Nord and Giant diverged, the Atmorans used to be larger, (ignore Ysgramor in the game that's just game limitations we know lore wise they were larger despite Ysgramor being shorter in Sovngarde) obviously Nords with highest Nedic ancestry is Falkreath and Markarth Nords, and too a lesser extent Whiterun, Morthal and Solitude hold Nords, whereas the Nords with the lowest Nedic ancestry and most Atmoran ancestry is Dawnstar, Winterhold, Windhelm and Riften hold, which coincidentally and conveniently correlate with the old Holds which correlate with Stormcloak regions. Meaning Nedic blood western Skyrim naturally likes the empire unlike Atmoran blood eastern Skyrim. The Nordic race in Elder Scrolls has two ethnicities and sub cultural groups. Semi Nedic west Skyrim Nords, and Semi Atmoran East Skyrim Nords.
Falkreath Nords would have the highest Nedic ancestry lowest Atmoran ancestry, number one they border Cyrodiil so Imperial admixture comes into play, and number two sheer geography of Nedic survivors, as for the Most Atmoran ancestry group it's likely Windhelm hold that has the least Nedic ancestry and the most Atmoran ancestry. Both are still Nords of course. Falkreath and Windhelm. Falkreath crest is literally a damn elk. And most people in Falkreath have black hair and brown eyes, unlike Windhelm Nords who are blonder and blue eyed.
So what would you categorize the Roscreans in? They're likely descendants of Atmoran settlers, even if there's only one in game book on them.
@@lazilycatharticone4191 the Roscreans are likely a pure Atmoran race. In Skyrim every Nord has at least one drop of Nedic blood. Roscrea as a culture and race can self develop without Elven cultural influence the Nords would receive from Dunmer and Chimer to the East, Alyieds to the South, Direnni to the high rock west and Dwemer and Falmer influence within. And obviously the Nedic influence of religion. There's videos on traditional extremely traditional Nordic religions, before Skyrim we see this in older Elder Scrolls games, obviously Imperial Cyrodilic assimilation changed that. So Roscreans as a race and religion probably resemble ancient Atmorans the most.
Dna isn't a concept but if we were to pretend, Than Ysgramor if he did a DNA test would resemble the Roscreans the most. Not so strongly or so much the Skyrim Nords. Who are part Nede to one varying degree or another.
@@noahtylerpritchett2682 interesting read, thanks man!
@@lazilycatharticone4191 no problem.
@@lazilycatharticone4191 this video might help.
th-cam.com/video/935NMPE55l8/w-d-xo.html
People like you make me so angry. Just when I think I've kicked my Elder Scrolls addiction, you post something and make it worse. (Keep it up man)
I did a Nede Playthrough when I first watched this video, stuck mostly to fur armour (stealth archery and werewolf mode made it easier) and stayed away from cities and mostly did deadra quests and cave dungeons, it was short lived but pretty fun, especially strafing giant camps with bows on horseback
"the ability to transform into a werewolf or a werebear would be an unbelievable advantage when facing a mammoth" werewolf proceeds to get wrecked by mammoth on screen
Haven't watched your videos for just a few months but the jump in quality is amazing
Every video is better than the previous one
The video was awesome. The music, the cinematography. Got real immersed ☺️
this is some god tier production quality my guy cant believe you still find topics to cover on an 11 year old game
Just think, that games more than twice as old as your wife
This is by far my favorite theory and what I've actually believed before this video coming out. I don't feed into the notion that Nedes had just migrated from atmora before the Nords, that would just make them Nords but nedes and Nords have no relation. Heres what I believe:
During the dawn era, all the continents were together in a sort of Pangea type situation, old ehlnofey (ancestors to elves) come to being and fortify themselves in Aldmeris, wandering ehlnofey (ancestors to men) come to existence scattered over nirn having to exist in the chaos of the world literally being shaped and formed. Then obviously Nords created separately by Kyne when she breathed down the throat of the world. Now the continent breaks up and separates, creating Tamriel, yokuda, akavir and of course Atmora, all filled with their own race of man, Tamriel nedes, atmora Nords, yokuda redguards, and akavirians before they got eaten by the tsaesci.
Well, you've piqued my interest. Would love to hear more detail.
I love these "lore" videos you guys do. They make the game far more interesting.
A very well researched and thought out lore on the early years on Nirn.
Thank you. 🙃☕❤
The comparison with modern historical academia is pretty funny. How evidence of human settlement in the Americas (Tamriel) has been found that predates the Bearing ice bridge theory, how the out of Africa (Atmora) theory is beginning to crack, and how big academia (Thalmor) is fully entrenched so far as to ignore or discredit any evidence that goes against their theory
Guys, the production in this video is top notch! Great work and an interesting topic too!
You’ve made so many videos about this game. It’s been like 100000 years since release and you’re STILL finding shit. Lol. I love it
I love how this formatted like a professor teaching a class.
Love listening to your voice, helped me sew my book together!
Very interesting theory. Definitely, this theory NEDES more attention and research.
Honestly just seeing those visuals makes me wish Bethesda really leaned into the more prehistoric fauna present in Skyrim. Mammoths and Sabercats are cool, but I really wish they went all in instead of settling with the standard Deer, Elk and Bear. Would've made Skyrim stand out even more as a province in my opinion. Something truly different from the previous game's fauna.
Great video I wonder if you guys will ever do a video on prehistoric High Rock or prehistoric Hammerfell with tribal Nedeic people living in those areas.
I almost fell off my chair at 4:27PM watching this
I wish there was a prehistoric Skyrim mod that takes place in the Merethic or even Dawn era. Back before there were Dwarven, Nordic or Falmer ruins.
More like when those ruins weren’t ruins yet, I completely agree!
@@egegul6343 than that wouldn't prehistoric if we added those ruins (before being ruins) but that wouldn't be prehistoric, it would be early historic. I mean pre Elf and pre Nord, that early.
@@egegul6343 New Nedic weapons and armors mods, as well as "villages" (which should just be camps) would be cool.
@@noahtylerpritchett2682 Oh sorry I misread your comment and took it to mean “back when there were ancient ruins” not before their civilizations.
@@noahtylerpritchett2682 for sure!
"This Skyrim theory will change the way you see everything"
Me after watching and then looks at my Sweetroll: it changes to a Potatoe.
Idk what it is but the production on this one is so aesthetic
The video quality is going through the roof. A great video well done.
You were high on that rare purple nirn root that only existed in prehistoric times but you have cleverly recreated on your alchemy table. Good on ya.
Awesome video, and what a cool theory. You made me a believer!
Also this channels videos have become so much more cinematic! You guys are really outdoing yourselves! It does not go unnoticed.
This is so beautiful, the footage, music.. 🥺 my go to relaxing channel🖤
Glad you like the music! :)
Scott's editing skills are getting increasing more impressive. With the skyrim builds becoming more like short films with the backstories, I believe making some short roleplay films are not out of reach. Would love to see that in the future.
Started the video, saw ma boi paraceratherium and knew this would be a good one
100% perfect my dude loved the video
Don't get me wrong, I love ES OSTs but it was great to hear some fresh background music. It fit the video really well - where's it from?
Or maybe I'm dumb and it's from ESO?
FudgeMuppet: "Let's try to make sense of the timeli-"
TES: "DRAGON BREAK!!!"
This hurts my brain. I've been diving too deep into Elden RIng to bounce back to this channel.
I actually have a theory on the Greybeards calling to you
I don't think it's entirely as described in game as a call to teach you more, rather if you recall what Esbern says about when a Dragon speaks another Dragons name while channeling the voice, its a challenge and the pride of a dovah forces them to accept the challenge.
The greybeards collectively calling out Dovahkiin when you slay Mirmulniir I believe they are actually challenging the Dragonborn to take the mantle and only by accepting their challenge is it that you truly mantle being Dovahkiin
How did I miss this gem of a video!
It would be interesting to look at these proto-Nordic cultures and compare them to early Bosmer history, especially concerning their connection with Khajiit. The shape shifting, different forms, hunter/gatherer, Hircine worship, and such mirrors much of what you've discussed here.
The graphics in this video are so beautiful
Nirn is a user driven simulation being developed by someone in Fallout. Nearly everyone is an npc except the Aedra/Daedra, who were scientists/engineers/executives that chose to plug in and build their own world after the "success" of the vault 112 experiment. I'm guessing the PC's throughout the series are either additional humans jumping into the world like the Lone Wanderer, or "self aware" programs whose destiny is repeatedly foretold and expressed through the elder scrolls (computer code that makes up the simulation engine)
Edit* this is a theory obviously
If the story of Ysgramor being the first human on tamriel is false I wonder what other parts of history have been altered or forgotten for the sake of political, religious, or nationalistic convenience on Tamriel. And that's not even taking Dragon Breaks into account.
For example, what if Tamriel is *far* older than the creation myths would have us believe? In our own world it was (and in some places still is) a common belief that the world is only 6,000 years old for quite some time. And let's not forget all the incorrect theories about the sun and the stars, and the Geocentric model of the universe being mainstream up until the renaissance.
If our understanding about the games mythology and history comes from biased, or otherwise untrustworthy sources we may need to challenge our own views on the Elder Scrolls Universe.
In fact, thinking about it, that might make an interesting premise for 6 or 7. Tamriel experiencing a cultural and scientific revolution similar to our worlds renaissance and age of enlightenment.
Flawless video as always! Also I NEED your ENB preset.. please with sugar on top
I think you forgot about Rorikstead.
Scrapped because it is illegal to display scenes of kids dying, that village in the Reach and its rituals may play a part in painting a more detailed and yet different picture than the one so far discussed.
Dude. I hope they hire (all three of) you as lore consultant(s) for the next Elder Scrolls game. Wonderful stuff. And so well-made!
Is there a mod that adds additional prehistoric mammals to Skyrim?! I'd love to hunt giant sloths, Paraceratheriums, Indricotheriums (these two make mammoths look like cows), short-faced bears, Andrewsarchus, etc.
I love it that you know what those even are! 😊
@@Mary_Beth_Reimer Ark players know them all. Megatherium, doedicuro, megaloceros...
@@joaojeffersoncavalcantiwan812 I learned them in historical geology, but that was a looooong time ago, lol
There are many mods that add various beasts. Search Nexus. The last time I checked, a lot of them were pretty buggy.
Those " Nedic" Swords are from the Beyond Skyrim Bruma mod, the texture is anyway.
This video was awesome and well put together. It was like Skyrim meets Farcry: Primal.
Sound theories. I'd add that there were Bird Men in ME Tamriel and who knows how many other beastfolk. Possibly Thrassians? It's a mystery.
You know why I might think so? They took a lot of inspiration from LOTR, in that lore- the dwarves were technically the first to walk the lands but because the elves were supposed to be the first race the dwarves were put back to sleep. Bethesda might have taken some inspiration from Tolkien in this regard to.
Dammit fudgemuppet now I HAVE to do another play through thank you.
Trying to remember the in-game source, but it is strongly implied that the nedes were in Tamriel before the elves. ESO had Craglorn (the region in Hammerfell between Skyrim and Cyrodiil) as the last bastion of the nedes. Lots of star worship, daedric worship, and some of the few megalithic structures made by the nedes.
I absolutely love this idea. I’ve long held the belief that the dwemer never disappeared, they just forgot who they were. I believe the dwarves were early man and whatever cataclysm befell them resulted in a cultural amnesia.
Having humans in Tamriel in the mithraic gives them all the time they need to develop their tonal magic and architecture to build the underground civilization.
Especially if they had experienced some kind of ice age that drove them underground. This would only have been part of the population though with other humans remaining on the surface and continue worshiping the daedra.
I have similar ideas about the orc origins being a lie but that’s a different topic.
I question that theory though, because there were dwarves fighting at the battle of the red mountain in the first era that just straight up vanished and there are accounts of this.
I may be mistaken but doesn’t that information come from Vivec?
A lot of the history we are presented is bias in favor of whoever is presenting it, especially when talking about the racial origins and gods. Look at the orcs for example. Or Tiber Septim.
I’m sure something happened when they struck the heart of lorkan but I wonder if the dwemer actually all vanished. After all, we do meet one in morrowind but he’s become a half machine abomination by that point. Heck, he looks more like a squat orc or dark elf than anything else.