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Where do you get the idea that in "the UK where there are strong government EV incentives"? The only 'incentive' for all EV owners is zero VED, as it is charged on emissions from all cars. The salary sacrifice advantage on tax and NI only applies to employees of qualifying companies and not to private buyers. Besides which most people seem to lease a car these days. So no "strong incentives" really.
I also have invented a new way of mobilisation. It's a single user pod. You have a seat you can sit on. Your a bit straight, like on chair. It goes 28 Km/h even over speed bumps and trough red traffic lights. Charges in 2 hours. The pod it selfs is invisible for self ceaning service when it rains. As a extra option there some special cloaths like bikers have.
To charging station companies: I don't want to sign up for your stupid app, I don't want to top up your special card with pre-set amounts, and I want every charging station functional, just like the outlets in my condo, since you are piggy-backing on that completely functional infrastructure. 99% of my financial interactions can be completed via card tapping. Why can't you get your collective acts together and replicate this? I have money, I want convenience. Will not be recommending EV until this part of your industry changes.
Public charging (except Tesla) is so bad that the only conclusion I can come to is that there is little to no financial incentive to make reliable chargers with great customer service. Oil companies probably stand to make more money by spending on delaying the transition than on building infrastructure to support it. Half the worlds oil output is used to fuel light vehicles. Do the math and then you realise that every oil company has a massive vested interest in lobbying against pure EV , and probably for hybrids. Add to that the fact that legacy ICE (the people who have to actually switch their business model over) also want the transition to be slow and you have all the reasons you need to explain what's going on.
Hybrid to me is the only sensible choice. I want my car to run on combustible material that is not necessarily bound to a powergrid or the availability thereof@@bluetoad2668
Italian here. Nearly ALL of those 20.000 electric cars are pretty much premium vehicles only higher-than-average people can afford. They were pretty much just incentives for wealthy people. Common people pretty much got told to suck it up while kept getting blamed for polluting by having to go to work every day.
Currently, where I live, there's only one category of buyers who are really into EVs: homeowners who can charge at home and they already have an ICE or hybrid car. For them it's great. And that market is now saturated. Anyone living in apartments or buying first car are not looking at EVs at all.
Yup exactly like i'd consider an EV but I have nowhere to charge it. Not to mention I need to make long 400 mile trips occasionally to the middile of nowhere. I also think their generally overpriced like i've sat in a few tesla's and their interiors feel like a car half their price. I'm currently saving up and plan on looking at something like the ford bronco or similar when I go to buy a car in a few years.
@@Speedkamfunny. The Gov and guys like you were saying (even mandating) the same thing in 2019, hmmmm, 5 years ago. You obviously didn’t watch this video or pay attention to the facts.
It sucks because BYD makes affordable electric vehicles but the US gov has slapped them with 100% tariffs or whatever. Kinda pointless to import when a $20,000 mid-tier EV jumps to Tesla pricing.
@@nicholashubbard7146 you can buy a model three for $30,000. It’s the most American made car in existence. It’s a good feeling to support American manufacturing.
@@richardfolden3860 GM has one, Tesla is still too pricey. At any rate, every company should have one because competition is healthy. But they don't compete anymore, they collude. It's pathetic.
@@crashingatom6755 I would argue that the extra $5000 for a model three is a way better choice than the GM bolt. I don’t think it’s a choice that they are making not to sell a cheaper electric vehicle. They have no capacity to sell them profitably. This is the thing people didn’t understand about Tesla for years and years. They are literally a decade ahead of just about everybody else.
Because modern western governments are completely incapable of building anything affordably. It’s either spend billions on a public transport project that will be 10yrs late and 3x over budget or sponsor something people want to buy that already works. There’s lots of solutions for this but they’d rather have the massive amount of binders of rules, pet mega corps that get repeated sweetheart deals, and special interests groups taking a piece
Without getting too political, I suggest you look into "demand destruction." They know they can't force EV adoption at scale. Hence, the push for "You will own nothing, and be happy" live in the pod, eat the bugs, and stay in your 15-minute city. They won't need to supply the masses with any kind of transportation because cars will only be for the wealthy who can afford to pay the carbon offset and gain permission to leave their region.
EVs need service much less often though since they're much simpler. There are no spark plugs, oil filters or all the myriad other components needed by a gasoline engine.
I go to the dealer for recalls. Other than that, EVs don’t need much. HVAC filters and brake fluid are driveway operations and I don’t believe in tire rotations. (I’ve replaced a lot of wheel studs over the years. Also had shops not tell me after missing jack points.)
@@S9uareHeadmy EV Kona has cost me £940 in total (£90, £150,£100, £600) for last 4 services. My wife’s 2011 diesel c3 has cost her £1100 in last 13 years in total.
My mom's got an EV. She's got more than 15 apps just to be able to use the different public chargers. She needed to make an account and sign up for every single one of those apps. Most of the time the chargers don't even work
Until they all adopt the Tesla/NACS charging standard it’s looking rough as hell. The charging infrastructure sucking and needing apps probably killed the dreams of fast adoption. Tesla is the only company that “figured out” charging, and they did it half a decade before anyone else
@@SuperAwesomeWeirdGuy The issue is that those chargers are paying for Tesla to function especially when companies need to pay Tesla to use them. These other companies have nothing generating revenue from their electric cars. Tesla is the only one that's working
@@SuperAwesomeWeirdGuyNah the others aren't going to let that happen. The moment Tesla way became the standard then Tesla will rake in much more money lol
As a German, my perspective is this: In our market, EVs are either really expensive, or a bit shit. Its basically impossible to get a small, sub 25k €, city-capable (parking) EV that still allows me to cover the distance to my parents without being forced to take a charging break 90% of the way there. 400km real range is what I need, so the advertised range should be at least 600km, with cold temperature and a couple of years of usage calculated in.
500km real world range on highway driving is going to require 100kw packs. Hybrids are a better bet, but keep in mind, you won't win by having 1000km WLTP/NEDC range. The real world of having a 500km+ range is that you're in the car for 5+ hours. If the car is too cheap, you will need 12+ hours to recover from the fatigue/strain, especially bucket seats and 'comfortable' seats that don't hold up after 6 hours. Diesel VW's might be a solid car, but it's still an ex-lease or 6+ year old car to choose from if you want something like a hybrid/EV. IDK. you can work out your own logistics and parking, but SUVs and the modern 'hatch' are not so different as the hatchbacks are becoming larger. If you travel 400km to your parent's place, that's ~5 hours of driving. It's also $40 in fuel to do this regularly, not including food/tyre costs, 10 hours of driving on highways and hills for 'fun' etc. Its easy if you do it 5 times a year, rest breaks will save your sanity when there's traffic, or snow/iced up roads, snowstorms, et al. I've done similar drives, but it's also impractical to do that regularly. having 60kw+ batteries makes the car heavier, so it's in the SUV/4WD bracket. Nothing can really be done as German/EU weather is too cold, and you're going to need a car with a ferocious heat pump to stop icing up overnight. To stop the car losing power, you'd also need a blanket / shed in your parent's place, or to stop up on groceries before you arrive, depending on how long the drive is going. ABRP can do the math on highway/travel distances, since the cold weather + highway driving tends to make long drives insufferable in both fuel/ICE and EV cars miserable. Especially with icing roads and rest stops being next-town oriented.
If you only sometimes drive these kind of ranges the EV does pretty fine. They charge quiet fast so even my Zoe (purchased 2 years old with 18000km for 16k) with 350km does 1000km with 3 breaks around 30-50 minutes. And you even save a bunch of money with your own wallbox... you do not even need solar to save...there are special plans that allow you to charge at 25 cent/kwh at night. Anyway we had a lot of sunshine this weekend and tomorrow I take a free ride to Hansapark :)... no fuel to pay and savings went to a season pass for the family. But honestly: People are quiet irrational about EVs and even more about used EVs... currently a great time to buy those used cars for a fraction of the original price.
I think "need" is a strong word here. If budget is a serious concern, your time probably is cheap enough that you could park and ride, or spend an extra 1-2 hours at a highway charger without suffering a terrible opportunity cost. Right now I have both an old gas car and a new EV because I am a productive commuter, but if I can WFH or retire I fully expect to be able to get by on a $5000, 50 mile range used Nissan Leaf. Dirt cheap to buy, and has enough range for groceries and train station.
It's not that I don't want an EV, it's that I don't want a rolling iPad. I don't want a car that hoovers up all my personal data and sells it to Google as I drive. (My phone does enough of that already.) I don't want a car that will brick itself because of one bad OTA update or worse, a malicious hack. And I really don't want a car that can't be repaired. That's what modern EVs are now: Disposable vehicles.
Even modern ICE cars have infotainment and similar complex software as an EV. Don't really see that as an argument against either type of vehicle in particular. Just look up the jeep and KIA hack years ago - non of the affected models were EVs.
@@shmehfleh3115 uh why did my reply get removed? I basically said the same as Nic, but earlier 😂 so I got a message somebody responded but my response is gone 🤷♂️
I've been maintaining my cars myself since I started driving. I have zero interest in expensive, unrepairable, mobile data harvesting appliances crippled by shitty apps and scam subscription services. EDIT : Click the replies below to read mostly bad, hyperbolic takes, including mine.
Most of the non-Tesla automakers still let you do your own maintenance. As for the data harvesting... I'm with you on that one. Unfortunately, that's not just an EV thing; that's a new car thing in general. I will say that Chevy has *allegedly* stopped doing that since they got caught selling driving telemetry to data brokers, who then sold it to insurance companies. They also *allegedly* can only do that if you have an active OnStar subscription, and you can call them up and demand they disable the modem in your car. Fortunately OnStar sucks enough that it's removal doesn't actually impact the driver experience whatsoever. I would still prefer to be able to physically remove or disable the OnStar modem entirely (unfortunately not really possible in the Chevy Bolt without completely disassembling your dashboard and de-soldering some components from the "infotainment" module; I checked), but I do like that you can disconnect it from their end.
There are cheaper cars, not all of them are 60k cars. Unrepairable? What would you want to repair? Change oil, spark plugs? There is nothing to repair. There are no subscription services, what are you dreaming about? As for the data harvesting, I don't know, I am not sure that new ICE cars aren't harvesting data as well. I am quite sure they are.
What do you mean unrepairable? Electric vehicles are practically maintenance-free. There is very little to maintain. The motor and the electronics require virtually no work for the life of the vehicle. The only thing that is hard to repair is the battery, which can also be repaired. Companies like EV west have been harvesting and repairing bad Tesla battery modules for years. It is a labor intensive process, not unlike an engine rebuild, which is why it hasn't caught on yet. Electric vehicles are nowhere near as common as internal combustion engine vehicles, so you get very little aftermarket support for most but Tesla has a pretty strong community and there are a lot of aftermarket, refurbished or used parts available for it, if you want to work on your own car. If you want to repair the battery, you have to focus on high voltage DC safety first and then lithium charging/discharging process and bms systems. Then you would get in your ppe, remove the modules, go around with a multimeter to find the bad module, take it out. Remove the shorted cells in the module, and find new cells that would match the capacity of the remaining healthy cells. Close up. This is one way. But if your module is pretty old, chances are you will have to do this again in a year or so, if not sooner. At that time, you will need a new module and there are companies that provide that.
That's not what happened, you're regurgitating lies. In advance of a handful of peak demand periods, the California grid operator issues a Flex Alert wnich_asks_ people to use less electricity between 4 and 9 p.m., the same hours where electricity is the most expensive on a Time of Use plan. That leaves only 19 hours a day to recharge your EV for less money, or you can ignore the request. Because enough Californians actually care about their neighbors, peak electricity demand did not overwhelm the grid. California's electricity regulators could be a lot better, but this is not an example of failure. There hasn't been a brown out due to demand exceeding upply since 2020. You can even get paid for using less electricity during peak demand periods. EVs are a variable demand that's _good_ for the grid.
@@skierpage in other words, they told Californians, "don't charge your cars," during the hours when most people would want to charge their cars. Thanks for the clarification!!
That's why I wouldn't even consider an EV. Well the primary reason anyway. The range is an issue, as I do sometimes drive 4+ hours. Cost of repair, sale price, etc. It's just worse in every way and more expensive.
This is certainly more of an issue in some areas than others, but of course not everyone is renting an apartment, and in most US apartments you can have a dedicated parking spot, so all the apartment owner has to do is provide plug in power for that spot, like they do at RV camping sites.
@@michaeltorrisi7289 There are already EVs on the market that can drive over 300 miles on one charge, though maybe out of your price range. Running costs are far lower than an ICE car unless you're paying mad prices for electricity. Sales prices of ICE vehicles are also climbing, I can see EVs being the cheaper option in a few years.
When EV was first sold to us, we were told that it’ll mean cheap travel. Fast forward a few years and roadside charging is now MORE expensive than petrol. As always, greed killed it.
Greed didn't kill it, the absurd government and Tesla subsidies made it so you could not make a logical choice comparing gas to electric. These things were NEVER cheap travel, it just looked like a deal because of subsidies. Free chargers were never going to last, and the time wasted charging makes them FAR more expensive than gas cars, even if the charging cost is similar to the price of gas, because 1.5 hours charging is worth a fair amount to most people. Its like when Uber first showed up, their prices were way better than taxis, but that was just a fake price paid for by gullible investors. The real price is very comparable to a taxi.
@@speculawyer Diesel & Gasoline is cheaper than electric. The vast majority of people live in apartments. Which means no private parking and no possibility to charge at home. For the vast majority of people, charging an EV is only possible through expensive commercial charging stations. Each of those needs its own subscription... 🤡🤡🤡 Imagine that you would need for every petrol station (BP, Shell, privately owned, etc.) a subscription just to be able to refuel your car. Even for the movie Idiocracy, it would be edgy.
One big factor on why adoption in Europe is sluggish is that the target customers are living in the city, yet most people living in cities in Europe rent apartments without dedicated garages. Another reason is that mass adoption actually leads to *worse* outcomes for the individual owner, as most public charging spots now see more heavy use. For example, a newly built apartment complex in Austria included one (!) charger for all 25 tenants. This is great if one out of 25 owns an EV - not so much if eight do.
The problem is the infrastructure needed to support EV's isn't there. Not that people don't have garages. You need the infrastructure regardless. And that is a prohibitively expensive proposition, which leads to the question: "Who's going to pay for that? Who has that much money?" Which means eletric energy price will go up substantially. Someone HAS to pay for it, which means the tax payer. The Netherlands alone currently has an energy requirement of around 13 PJ (13 000 000 000 000 000 J) annualy. How are you going to generate that if everything needs to be electric? Now take a country like Germany, France, the US. How large is their energy requirement? Range, capacity and charging time are also a factor. I can put 50kg of petrol or diesel in a car and it has 100x more energy/kg than the energy that can be stored in 50kg of batteries. There is a mathematical maximum amount of energy that can only put back into a battery. Batteries are affected by temperatures impacting the energy you can utilize. And you won't be able put ther amount of energy back into the battery (memory effect). I don't have the problem with petrol/diesel; the amount of energy available can be used. Once a EV battery catches fire, it is a chemical fire. And these are particularly nasty as they can self-perpetuate, meaning they can provide temperature, fuel and oxidizer all by themselves. That's why you see fire department either dump those vehicle in water or let it burn out. For cities an EV has it's niche. But if you need to drive to the next city, it starts to become a problem. I can fuel up 50kg of petrol/diesel within 5-10mins where I would need to wait at least 45mins to charge a battery. Of course I could pump more power into the charge, but then I need to take into account temperatures and I would need power per charger of around half a nuclear power plant (especially when I need to charge a truck). Batteries also carry a weight penalty. For example, a regular combustion powered car in Europe weighs around 1200kg. Make that an EV and that same car weighs 1300kg. Move that to trucks and they quickly need to sacrifice around 50% of their cargo space to accomodate the batteries needed. This quickly becomes unviable from an economic standpoint. This weight penalty also has an environmental impact, as an EV, due to its larger weight causing more friction, will generate more fine dust frorm tire wear, than the same car with a combustion engine. And the process of creating these battery packs isn't environmentally friendly, as I need to process the lithium and cobalt minerals required before I can use them. Regardless of propulsion method, the law of Physics still apply. I still need a set amount of energy to move a mass of 1kg over a distance of 1m. EV's aren't the end-all-be-all and certainly have their place. But complete replacement of combustion engines? Physics and Economics say otherwise.
That's just one of many issues. There's no infrastructure. The cars depreciate badly. They can't be repaired as easily. They are very overpriced when new, and you can only buy them new if you want them to work properly. They don't work when it's too hot or cold. The range is abysmal. They are loaded with surveillance. The ideologies behind them (carbon demonisation and global warming) is nonsensical anti-science. Overall these cars are only bought by liberal idiots, often leased. They don't have a future.
About 30% are living in high rise flats or apartments, which are mostly rented accommodation. Denmark has some of the tallest apartment's buildings in Europe.
My crappy little 2016 Nissan Leaf just happened to be perfect for me. It cost $7,000 to buy. For 99% of trips, I only need to go 20 miles or less, so the 80 mile range is plenty. It's small so it parks easily, and I have a garage so it's easy to plug in and gives me the equivalent of 160mpg in terms of electric cost. It has excellent acceleration and is really fun to drive. And for the 1% of trips that I need to go farther, I have an even crappier Honda van. This is in a mid-sized city in the U.S.
My 2011 Leaf cost one Oz of gold coin from a friend in 2020. It only has 60 kms range but with the use it gets, only needs charging twice a month. Usually from my solar system. I am a not rich engineer who set up life anticipating climate change. Watching the lack of clued up people around does not herald a secure future.
UK : 2002 Toyota Yaris. Petrol. Cost me £1500+ (($2,000 )) used. .. 43mpg on short trips , (less than 5 miles) to the Superstores. Unlimited range! for 100 miles trips etc. I baby it, as I have a fast motorcycle and find no need to trash the engine. 85,000 miles - my mileage per year is so low I think it will fall apart before the engine dies. Insurance is £350 ($400 ). It's a Toyota - I wouldn't call it shitty -they're amazing. The back seats roll up forward(!) if I have to carry something much too big for the bike : chairs, excessive shopping etc. The rest of the time I use my e-bicycle(LOL) as I'm not as fit as I was (66).
I live in a block of flats. Where the hell am I going to charge the damn thing? finding parking is bad enough, now I have to look for a place to charge my car?! And in winter time when it gets down to -20 , I have to charge it every day?!
In every country: government incentives = increased EV sales. Removal of incentives = declining EV sales. Who would've thought? BTW, every EV incentive is tax payer money going to wealthy households who can afford the premium of an EV.
Fossil fuel vendors and users have gotten away with 130 years of environmental destruction, global warming and societal health issues with out having to pay a cent for the damage they have caused - in fact they have received hundreds of billions of taxpayer money in subsidies. Government subsidies for a short while to help get EVs properly established is a drop in the ocean by comparison.
Fossil fuel subsidies dwarf EV subsidies and it happens every single year. If you took those away, everybody would be paying $15 a gallon and no one would buy a combustion engine ever.
@@richardfolden3860 And it would hit the poorest people who can't afford to pay for their transportation of goods and services, as the incentives are in place to help facilitate the transportation sector of the country. Remove the incentives, yay everything suddenly costs more. Incentives aren't always bad and are not just there to protect big oil.
@@EledorEldurn and that’s BS. Return the tax dollars to the people and let them make their own decisions. Economy would explode and there would be way fewer poor people. You have a very myopic opinion. And we are not even talking about the trillions of dollars and millions of lives (mostly poor people) lost “stabilizing” the middle east.
@@deahelkcunklaer2180 what?! Even Tesla's newer battery tops at 144,000 where is your info from sir? Mine is what google said when I asked them. :P (Trust me bro got 4 thumbs up)
I work in the EV industry and can confidently say that governments trying to push EVs to become a reality is the wrong move at the wrong time. Even the best batteries on the market do not have the energy density to replace gasoline or diesel at present, and even the most optimistic forecasts for battery performance growth do not predict them overtaking fossil fuels anytime soon. As you pointed out, EVs are a great product for a certain sector of the market that can charge at home or at work and doesn't need them for long road trips, but they are NOT ready for global prime-time. The average person would be much, much better-served by a plug-in hybrid.
That what bothers me so much. EV's do not have the range or tech to overtake gas at this point. Hybrids are a far better choice as they are the best of both. Great gas milage while also giving the quick fill up for long trips. I've seen plug in hybrids do this best for short commutes but still giving the ability to take long trips with ease. EV's need a huge refinement in battery tech before they are mass adopted. Far from an environmental savior (At least right now).
@@braixeninfection6312 plain hybrids are forever fossil fuel burners, just with better MPG. Plug-in hybrids are fine for people scared to go without a gas tank, but most people's first plug-in hybrid will be the last car with an engine they ever buy. No, pure BEVs don't need a huge refinement in battery tech. If a plug-in handles most of your trips, then why not dump fossil fuel and buy a BEV? The idea that people will wilfully heat up the planet because they won't wait 20 minutes to recharge on a long trip is disgusting.
@@skierpage they really do need the refinement. It's not just about having to wait for a 20-minute charge (in my country even having that possibility is now stretching the national grid's expansion capacity very thin too), it's the immense power requirement for those fast charging stations, the batteries weighing a ton and the batteries getting worse very quickly with age or suboptimal weather, that latter part actually being where the vast majority of people will actually need to drive them in. For a total conversion to be economically viable enough for people to actually take it on, we definitely need much lighter and much more durable batteries. The ultra-fast charging stations wouldn't actually be needed even for long-distance travel if the range simply gets big enough to cover an entire day's drive, which already has been a thing for many ICE cars for years, so if the batteries get light enough that will also help a lot with both the grid burden and the general scarcity of charging stations problems. With good enough batteries you could even have a battery swap system where batteries are charging at stations slowly but you could just swap an empty battery for a full one in less than a minute and continue on your merry way.
Germany: please buy EVs also Germany: there are no public charging stations in 40% of towns here is my surprised pikachu face when sales plummets after government drops the 5k€ incentive
what a stupid myth: we have more than enough fast chargers everywhere - far too few are charging. Luckily the charging data are analyzed and germany has far too many to offer a profitable business. Those in cities can not expect a charrger per ev except the slow chargers on the lamps. The 5 k incentive were no longer necesarry cause the fast had gotten an EV or multiple but YOU were TOO SLOW for what reason. And then you missed the 5 k by the manufacturers, or what are you talking about. No more incentives for evs - only the slow and stupid have not gotten the inventives and those slow do not deserve subsidies
I live in Ireland and own an EV (bought in early 2022) and I'd buy a hybrid if I were buying today. The reason isn't the resale value, it's the shitty infrastructure that hasn't kept up with the EV surge.
The power grid in most countries has not been upgradd in advance of rolling out the EVs. Even if you can get a spot at a fast charger - if there are a few can they all run flat out or do they share it out and grind to a crawl? You couldn't recommend EVs for people with a single vehicle. At best they are a runaround, unless you go with a behemoth.
After having an EV for 2 years, I prefer good milage gas or Hybrid. Have you ever been in a situation where you have less than 50 miles range with 2 charging places ahead and both of those charging places turn out to not be working? I have and it sucks. We need better infrastructure for EV's before I commit to another.
Nope never. I spent $400 and put a charger in my garage. I get home with 50-70% battery. I wake up full. I haven't had to stop for energy. I will say home chargers don't fix the problem for renters. But if landlords start putting chargers in their parking lots it's problem solved. As someone with a EV. You dont wanna sit around wasting time waiting for your car to charge at a public station. You want it to charge at Home while you sleep. Infrastructure is fine. I'll be honest with you I see alot of empty EV chargers around me. Unless people are roadtripping most people have realized how to charge at home. Litterally cost less then a grand to put in a charger. I did mine for $500. I now have a charger in my garage for all future EVs. I won't go back to gas. Why would I wanna stop at gas stations. My cars always full
@@Bakyt3DI was in western upstate NY this weekend. For fun we looked up nearest Tesla Superchargers. 30 miles and 40 miles in the wrong direction. That means a 60 drive round trip for “fuel.” 😂😂
Italian here. I would LOVE to switch to electric, but I can't. Firstly, they cost too much. I can't afford it. Secondly, I live in an apartment, I don't have a garage or a parking spot. How could I recharge my vehicle? The whole infrastructure has to change. Cities must offer credible mobility alternatives to cars, first of all. Than a robust charging infrastucture, nicely spread around. Than car manifacturers MUST go back to building nice, useful, compact, economic and reliable cars. Most cars on the market are too fucking fancy, needlessly big, useless amd expensive.
One of the largest EV Manufacturers in India gets around 80,000 complaints per month about their bikes. Their post-sale service is so awful that one buyer even burned down their dealership out of frustration.
It’s the charging infrastructure. People don’t have range anxiety, they have charging anxiety. If I didn’t have a driveway and could charge from home, I wouldn’t have bought one.
@@jeffb321 Nobody cares about the range of an ICE car. Why? Because you can restore the range in a few minutes, tops. If you could do something like that with EVs (perhaps with a battery swap?), nobody would care about EV range either.
I faced a big decision in 2022 when I wanted to buy my first brand new car. I had three options: a Hyundai, Toyota, or a Kia. I work as a delivery driver for Doordash, Instacart, and Uber Eats, so I don't have a regular hourly job. I thought I had enough money saved up for a down payment, but my credit score was not good enough. I heard that you need a credit score of 650, and I had a credit score of 750. However, the type of credit I had was not accepted by the dealership. They only offered me a 17% interest rate on the auto loan, which would have meant paying almost $1,000 a month. This made it very difficult for me as a working person in a low-paying job to afford a new car. It felt like the system was not designed for people like me. I also heard stories of people maxing out their credit cards to buy new cars, only to end up not being able to afford them in the long run. It's frustrating to feel like all these new advances are not meant for people like me.
I'll be honest, from a car point of view you want to cross Hyundai and Kia off your list. They are POS vehicles that will fall apart as soon as the warranty runs out. I'd add a Honda civic to the list. Not at all sexy, but you can pick up even a 2012 model for cheap and it will go like an energizer bunny if you just keep up with the regular maintenance. The only expensive catch I had was around 150,000 miles the axle boots tear like clockwork and you do need to have that fixed. The Toyota Corolla will be the same story. Even an old one goes like an energize bunny as long as you respect the maintenance interval and pay $60-120 for your regular service. New car may be sexy, but if you are struggling for finance at all do research into good secondhand models.
The market that flips their car every 3 to 5 years is not that large. New, or even used, EVs are very expensive. My last car cost $4000, not $34,000. I looked for a used EV. They were all over $20,000, for a used car with a questionable battery. I can't afford to take the risk.
How many miles do you think you'll get out of a $4000 car? I agree that EVs are to expensive but at least in my experience in my family a $4000 car is another $2K to get it running well and another couple thousand down the line to keep it running in the next 3-4 years. I have had zero repair costs and low maintenance costs for a car that cost me $20K and it's now been 5 years. However if I had to pay the last work done under warranty it would have been $3K plus another minor repair would have been $900. This is almost all because of labor cost. The parts are like $200 lego pieces. Its no sweat. Then you realize there's like 10 people in the entire state that can work on your car and you shit yourself.
Don't listen to the obvious bias from the comments above - you made the right choice. I owned a hybrid for around 5 years that was older and even though it was reliable (Toyota) no one knew how to work on it and the parts were exorbitantly expensive (it also needed a new battery pack which was $4500+). My next car is a full gas engine and never been happier with the choice. Electricity is expensive too, not sure why people keeping talking about "charging" like it's free.. maybe if you finance solar panels for $30k @ 8% APR over 10 years, sure.
Be glad. EVs depreciate like all electric appliances. The depreciated like laptop computers, and left most "adopters" stuck in under water loans. EVs are the road to financial ruin.
@@Furiends I got 11 years out of a $1000 Toyota Tercel, and didn't have to put substantial work into it for about the first 6 of those years. At the end of those 11 years, I sold it for what I originally paid for it.
Usually the problem with hertz is finding out that months ago someone handed your rental in late and it had been reported stolen Usually you find out at gunpoint.
52 mpg, minimal maintenence, no range anxiety, 100,000 brake pads, bad battery? $900-$1200 for a replacement done in less than 2 hours and I don't have to do anything but sit and watch?...yeah, bought a 2016 Prius I couldn't be happier. Hybrid is the way to go right now.
People make fun of Prius drivers but when talking about pure economy they are the absolute best. Very few vehicles match that kind of efficiency long term.
Nope, there’re more expensive to buy than a small petrol equivalent and you loose more when you sell against the petrol equivalent, your also doubling the complexity of the drivetrain for very little gain. Smallish petrol is the smart way to go nowadays.
Depends on where you live. In my country, prius cost 50k USD. And an EV with same size cost 25k USD. Why bother buy hybrid while you can buy EV with half the price? That's why in some country Toyota really become a greedy dinosaur.
Chinese cars with a serial hybrid began to be brought to Russia (after the sanctions), that is, the car has an engine, it is needed only to charge the battery! This is better than the Prius, as there is a choice to drive on electricity or in a mixed cycle when traveling long distances!
You are confusing different hybrids. Toyota produces hybrids in which the ICE turns the wheels, and in a plug-in hybrid, the electric motor turns the wheels, and the ICE constantly charges the battery. The Toyota's hybrid is really dying, and the plug-in one is growing in popularity.
@@ДмитрийАндрианов-й4ы It's different across the markets. In Japan (which is still Toyota's home turf) PHEVs are not very popular (shit charging infrastructure which can't really be fixed short-term) but the regular hybrids sell like crazy. EU massively favors plug-in vehicles, especially the Western portion. Others are slower to adapt but they often buy used and maintain long-term. China is currently heavily EV focused. US is a mixed bag with wild differences across states. Also, the hybrids in Toyota all work on nearly the same system ("Hybrid Synergy Drive", 2 EE + 1 ICE, the plug-in version has a ratchet in the newer generations that effectively increases electric torque by preventing backspin on the ICE), the battery in the plug-in version is just bigger.
I live in California, it's funny how bad the state has managed all of this. I live more inland, so the weather has been consistently over 100 degrees. I get almost daily e-mails from the power company advising of a conserve energy alert in effect. The list includes: not running major appliances, turning off any unnecessary lights, turning your AC to 78 degrees, and, you guessed it: not charging your EV between the hours of 4pm to 9pm. The state keeps pushing all these campaigns to buy electric, but they can't even keep the lights on now. Not to mention that there are far and few locations to charge these vehicles. The local ones are either always packed or out of order, and since most people rent in California, the "you can charge it at home" argument doesn't really apply here either. Last but definitely not least: Apparently enough people in California must have bought EVs, because now California is trying to come up with fun and creative ways to subsidize what they're losing out on in the way of less money collected from gasoline taxes.
Cali is a meme state who needs to close its borders to people who want to leave. Live with the decisions you made, don't export them. Your lawmakers knew the electrical infrastructure in the state, and chose EV mandates. Own it. Stay there. Don't move and export their bad ideas.
I keep getting told by retards how terrible the Texas grid is as they praise the other grids in the US... but I rarely get notifications to conserve power and it's in the 90s and 100s for months on end where I am.
Don't most people charge their cars over night? You change your electricity tariff to have cheap night time rates and set the charger to charge during the low rate hours. Here in the UK you save about 75% by doing this. I see you're point but must people who'd benefit from an EV are those that can charge at home over night. 300 mile range on mine does mean long journeys need detours to super charger stations though. Like Patrick said. For a lease I'm happy with it, great car. But I wouldn't but one sure to resale value and battery degradation.
This as it turns out is quite a can of worms. Firstly I don't find it offensive to pay a tax having an EV in place of the gas tax everyone else pays. I do find it offensive that if a state is trying to incentivize EVs why would they even bother with the overhead of this tax right now? Now lets dive into the weeds: the insane ways the federal tax system complicates state road funding. Any federal funding to state roads comes strings attached which is why even though most of road funding has nothing to do with the gas tax it never the less makes the difference in many state road projects especially when they conflict with federal priorities. And that's much more true now given how many cities want more pedestrian friendly roads and less highways. These go directly against federal priorities. Toll roads (most of them anyway.. more on that) are.. hilariously one of the best tools state and local governments have for road projects that follow local design priories. These work as revenue generating assets that can be setup as a fund that can raise capital with low financing costs. Ironically still while drivers can use a low cost transponder and these roads typically are less than a couple dollars drivers are never the loss wary of tolls because of poor information and the everpresent hilarious fuckyou tolls of 30+ dollars or the poor design of mapping applications that will either keep you on toll roads or avoid them completely even though this is a poor strategy. Maybe one segment of a toll road saves 30 minutes and the rest doubling or tripping the toll will save a couple minutes. We should probably just normalize a hefty registration tax based on miles driven and vehicle weight. It sucks but this is just more in line with the real costs of maintaining roads. All of the Ford F150s are tearing up the roads more and taking up more space and causing more severe accidents and property damage than a coup or even a compact SUV. We should get rid of all preferential treatment for "light utility" vehicles for emissions that are just small tanks on the road. As well as tax and regulate primarily based on vehicle size.
Never be an early adopter of any new tech. A laser printer cost $10K in 1984 (close to 30k today). Within a few years, they were $1000. Now they’re about $200 in early 90s dollars.
Today's electric vehicle technology has been around for about a decade. Unlike laser printers, we shouldn’t expect a significant drop in prices because the technology has already matured and is being produced at scale. Apart from the electric motors and battery packs, the majority of a modern car’s components are even more established.
But that doesn't take into account that today's laser printers are absolute sht and now all require $75-100 toner cartridges. Also, EVs are no longer new tech, and for that matter, EVs existed over a hundred years ago in the USA. The irony is the electric motor starter is what played a hand in killing the EV then.
And that attitude is more common among older people, and less common among younger people. That’s what we call a secular growth trend for microchips in automobiles.
Other problem is that EV performance numbers are unreliable in colder climates. A finnish EV owner won a lawsuit against a car salesman because the car battery was advertised to last for 100 kilometers during winter, when in reality it lasted less than half of that. Batteries in general have issues in colder climates, mobile phones in jacket pockets can easily lose all their power in less than an hour if the day is cold. Car batteries are no different so EVs could even be outright dangerous to use in rural winter roads with no charging stations around.
Norway has the huge advantage of hydro electricity plants and an efficient grid system. Thus buying an EV in an urban area makes an EV an attractive option. But in rural areas, it's more advantageous to go with ICE.
Great reporting, Patrick. Chock full of facts and interesting insights. I followed your tip to Brilliant. Great fun for anyone who wants to learn. Keep up the good work!
I bought a Prius in 2006 and drove it for 14 years before the battery finally crapped out. I'm an urban dweller but I do make longer trips now and again so the hybrid was perfect for me. I loved that car. One of the things I've seen in the city lately is a lot of eBikes which make total sense. I suspect eventually, as the infrastructure grows, EVs will become more popular but hybrids are so universal with their self-charging batteries I think they'll be dominant for a long time.
Hybrids of the type Toyota built have never been dominant and will never be. My suspicion is, since they are a sensible and rather obvious idea, they were not compatible with politician's brains. Much better to support a tech that makes regular ICE cars heavier without forcing their owners to actually use what little electric range their cars provide...
@@Maruman_man It works all the time. As opposed to plug-in hybrids, it's basically an ICE car with energy recuperation, and little electric support motors with small batteries. The car generates electric energy from braking and slowing down, then uses that same energy directly to re-accellerate. This saves a lot of fuel in city traffic. Once a car is rolling at a steady speed, it doesn't use all that much fuel anyway, so no need to lug around a big heavy battery for fully electric driving.
My sister has an ev provided by her employer who also allows car charging at their offices completely free of charge. My brother has an ev through a salary sacrifice scheme in which large government subsidies make it cheaper for him and he also gets free electricity charging at his offices. I don’t get any subsidies but do pay high levels of tax to allow subsidies and free electricity to be handed out to fairly wealthy professionals. I have a 2007 petrol car which I repair and service myself and pay high levels of tax for fuel, Road tax, insurance and ownership costs. It is like Robin Hood in reverse!
And meanwhile your, along with everyone else's, carbon exhaust puts a massive burden on taxpayers as climate consequences accumulate over time. Self-sufficiency, but with a price thats really the opposite and relies on tax mitigants. Instantiating capital within a nascent market which leads to sustainable models is what real self/collective-sufficiency is.
@@VesperAegis Passenger cars are a small fraction of the carbon budget. Huge amounts of CO2 produced making the things. While the power infrastructure continues to use fossil fuels, EVs are just for the virue-signalling rich. The only plus is zero emission at point of use, keeping the air in cities cleaner. Keep drinking the Kool-Aid.
@@VesperAegis Please go look into carbon emissions and rekognize most carbon emissions is not from cars! You have been brainwashed into your believe that CO2 is creating the clima changes. The climate has been changing ever since the the earth got created. Change in clima maked the fall of the roman empire and Egypt. Methane gas is worse than CO2. EV's has a hughe impact on resource consumption. Clean water consumption to make Lithium is enormously large. Calculation shows that there are not enough resources to replace all the ICE cars with EVs. But no green hipster will ever talk about the real cost and pollution of EV. Minor damage to a EV and it's taxed as a written off and go straight to the trash. But then it will be recycled you say? Recycling is simply mitigating the overconsumption of poorly produced goods that's not repairable!
I live in Europe, I bought my car for 1.5k and it gets me 3.2l/100 which is like 800 miles per tank. Until I can get a comparable used EV that has the same mileage for the same price I really couldn't care less.
EVs are still too new. It takes time for used cars to flesh out all the market segments. "Top Gear" had a segment filmed in Vietnam where they tried to buy used cars but cars in general there were too new to be affordable at their budget, so they had to use motorbikes instead.
When gas got expensive in the late 70’s did WW2 vets go out and buy honda civics? No the early adopters were boomers straight out of college buying them for a few thousand new and a few hundred used. This transition is stifled by that market having very few models in the range that most people can afford and unlike the 80’s we are blocking imports.
@@Luca280 What a silly point. It is amazing a motor vehicle is as reliable as it is. That they are as reliable as they are, whilst being exposed to the elements as well as the rigours of use is pretty amazing. They hit a peak in the 2000-2010s. Since the 2010s they've been going backwards, look at VW reliability.
Gas in Italy is about $8.00 a gallon. You are also quoting DC public charging prices. Gas would have to be $0.65 a gallon to be cheaper than my home electricity.
Weird that you take this as argument. I now own an EV for six months and have only charged DC once to try it out. Aside from that I charge at the house I live in for 30ct/kWh in Germany. 😊
@@NicMediaDesign hell the previous owner of my ev in NY USA never charged it on DC at all. Also took a 600 mile trip using only one 50kw charger an a 25kw one. These people are such snowflakes.
As an owner at one point in time of two EVs we actually traded one of them out for a plug-in hybrid electric vehicle. This is because we like electric vehicles but we don't like road tripping with electric vehicles and so the plug-in hybrid electric vehicle is our road tripper.
@@TisDana well the added weight increases road wear, and the fire department needs upgraded to contain Tesla fires, so actually the Tesla is still undertaxed
There are so many reasons ICE vehicles will be around for a long time to come, but the main one is: Refuelling my vehicle takes less than 10 minutes and gives me over 1,000 km of range.
Think on these two facts: 1. ICE get only 8% of its fuel usage from petrol and the fuel tank. The rest is free energy from the air. An EV has to carry 100% of its fuel. This makes these vehicles far heavier and far more explosive. 2. An ICE engine + fuel tank can and does last 100 years or more. 60 years is a reasonable average. The bodies of the cars can last just as long as long as they are looked after. Compare to an EV. Their bodies can also last 100 years or more. But... their engine + fuel tank. That is limited to 10 years or even less. When the engine + fuel tank dies, the vehicle is beyond economical repair in many instances. Our landfills are already filling up with EV with mint condition bodies. That is a tragedy and massively wasteful. Remember this when they claim that EV are green.
With my EV i dont even spend 10min because it charges over night in the garage. People yust dont get it that no one needs 1000km range for 90%+ of the time.
@@rsamd “Ppl just don’t get it” No, you just don’t get it. We are how many years into the EV push, and despite it all ppl still don’t want them. It doesn’t matter what you think ppl want or need. They’ll reveal that with their purchases, and they aren’t purchasing EVs. Believe it or not, some ppl actually like to go places. They don’t just float around in a 15 min Urban bubble.
I live in California and have been driving a Tesla Model S (large sedan) since 2015, I charge it at home, and have taken many long roads trips. I love the car and will never return to driving an ICE car. Tesla has built out a vast reliable and easy to use Supercharger charging infrastructure in the US, Europe, and China. My son lives in an apartment in Los Angeles and has no problem keeping his Tesla charged at one of the many Superchargers in the area. The batteries last for 500,000 miles and more. No other auto maker can make a profit selling an EV because they don’t know how, which is why they are pushing hybrids.
Those who lives in residential building almost never have a place to charge, and for trips the infrastructure of charging stations are terrible.. I would love an EV, but I don’t have where to charge and absolutely hates subscription enforcement
I'm not actually convinced this is a problem. ANY EV on the market can be charged with a 30amp outlet. Many states make it illegal for a landlord to prevent hooking up an EV or installing a charger. It's now legal in most states to put an adapter on your meter with an EV charger hookup.
@@NicMediaDesignReally? Even for apartment buildings with no parking lot or garage? How, pray tell, does that work? Is everyone issued a really long extension cord?
@@Furiends sure sure, pray tell how "green" that is. the environmental impact of most evs are horrendous and the purported more greener fuel use is actually on its head in most places(especially when you calculate the battery production in), the lesser places being your solar paneled home in which you'll have to leave the EV to charge to go to work with your actually usable car. i've got noting against the EVs themselves, but im a realist and they dont cut it in the real work. when an EVs charged on 60% fossil fuel electricity (or in other words the pipe is just further away from the car so you cannot see it), it can be more equivalent to a regular ice that produces about 170 g/mi
@@xerr0n that assumes the energy mix will remain the same but that is not the direction most countries are going. Almost every developed country is steadily reducing their carbon output for energy generation, meaning your point gets less and less relevant as years go by. That said, if you really wanna be ecological you obviously shouldn't own a car at all.
As someone with a hybrid (non plug in) i prefer that way not than a regular car or ev. I get 56-63mpg. I have a 10 gallon tank and i go weeks before gasing up. It's 90 seconds to fill up, slow to lose gas, costed me 3-3.5k more in upfront cost. It's also way more maintainable than evs. I can ask a local mechanic to do something on my car, but when it's fully ev (like my mother's car) it's way more expensive and needs to be done at a manufacturer where they charge insane markups. Like 300-600 bucks for a charger if your charger has a malfunction. Hybrids, both plug in and non, are better. They're fuel efficient, cost effective, and can be used in extreme climates. When we had -20 degree weather, the only thing that changed was that i got the same mpg as a fuel effective gas car.
EVs are good for charging at home/work commuting. They are way superior to ICEs in this use case. Forcing everybody to EVs by banning combustion engines is peak EU insanity.
Frankly I can look over all the downsides of EV ownership aside from the fact that these manufacturers can just shut off my car, prevent it from charging and track everything I do with it.
Why exactly might they want to "shut off" your car? What advantages or benefits would it give the manufacturer? And if you use a mobile phone, you can already be tracked.... No car manufacturer has control over home EV charging in the UK.
@@Brian-om2hh they can shut off any out dated product they no longer wish to support… like any piece of tech… Are you not aware that car manufacturers are tracking all of your speeding and driving records and sending them directly to insurance companies to raise your premiums? I assume you have no problem with that though, after all, you have a cell phone.
It's actually a great “business” model. Suck money from taxpayers. The easiest way to make money is to get money from the government. It's a lot easier than making a profit by making a useful product.
@@philipfisher8853 Create some phoney need, then bribe the right press and politicians to make it a mandate. But watch out for Elon. He'll see you coming, take less money from the government, and actually make a product that works. Just ask Boeing.
@@philipfisher8853Plant stories in the press about the need then support politicians to create and fund a mandate. But watch out for Elon. He'll take less money and actually deliver a working product. Just ask Boeing about Starliner.
If govt can ban ICE engines by 2030, they can mandate that if you want a job you need a Tesla brain implant. It's the same logic... we will force you to buy this product by making other products illegal.
Recently i saw a small key truck from 2017 for sale, at 1500 euros.... But it needed batt replacement..called the dealer to find out...12k for the 17 batteries replacement. New was 17k at the time. Ridiculous.
EVs are no different to Tulip mania - Ford/VW etc watched TSLA share price boom in 2021, wanted to become TSLA2. Who wants to wait 20 minutes at a station on the M-Way? Who wants their car to be exploded remotely like a Hezbollah pager? The collapse in 2nd hand prices has further to go imo.
but why did the EU & US raise tariffs on EVs coming from China? If according to the data EV sales are declining why should the Government be concerned about EVs coming from China? Does the data shown only apply to EVs sold by Western Brands? Or is it because of the tariff hike that EV sales are declining?
When Hitler got elected every company was forced to make commitments and pretend to like his brand of socialism. Green energy mandates from modern socialist like Biden and Harris are no different. Companies know they have to weather the storm and wait till the misguided mandates are ended
Speaking from China, where I've been living for 6 years, the situation here is bolstered by the charging infrastructure in the cities, where EVs are common. Even the cheap EVs are quite a smooth ride, but in countries with large journeys across undeveloped spaces the charging issue is significant, hence the hybrid sales I'm guessing. As for the fire stories, you make an interesting point; there are many public safety videos about this in China, designed to encourage sensible parking for charging. But I've never seen a car fire in the 6 years I've been here, and I travel a lot.
@@MorbidEelI'd say so. Public transport is super cheap. For example high speed rail from Shanghai to Beijing the distance is about 1500km, but ticket costs only about €75. You can't do that in the west.
@@MorbidEel Well, there is that factor yes. There are a lot of drivers who go long distances - I have a friend who uses a petrol Haval (Chinese brand) 4x4 and regularly drives 100s of miles instead of using trains - he just prefers it for comfort etc. There is also the air travel factor to be considered - China has developed a large domestic airline industry. I would say when visiting the further reaches of Western China there were fewer EVs around, most of the taxis we took were petrol driven, but local people were charging their EVs from home, as the compact EVs like Wuling are good for shopping trips but definitely not for long haul journeys.
Car manufacturers are making a big mistake by killing off their famous named petrol/diesel models. VW with the Golf, Passat, and Polo; and Ford with the Fiesta, Mondeo, and Focus....to name two of many manufacturers. People STILL want these cars! They don't want ID2's ..3's etc or 'Grandlands', 'Pumas', and 'Capturs/Kadjurs' etc. The reality is that in the UK (at least), the EV charger network outside the South East simply isn't reliable or well established enough for people to swap their petrol cars for an EV. Then there are the number of charging points that are never working properly. Alot. People find petrol cars easier because of the sheer number of petrol stations there are. You just go in, fill up and are out in less than ten minutes. No waiting around for half an hour (or more) while your car charges up. That's fine if you are able to grab a meal; but a pain in the wotsit if all there is is crisps and chocolate bars. But it's still inconvenient compared with the time spent in a petrol station. Ford killing off the Fiesta is especially ridiculous...just at the time when the small 'city car' market is becoming very competitive. They will soon rue not having a small car in their range. But we basically need to go back to smaller cars again. Most cars now are just too big, and people are finding them difficult to drive because of this - even with all the 'assistance technology' that they come with. It's not that our roads are shrinking in size....but that cars are getting bigger with each passing year. And sooner or later this trend will need to stop.
Unique challenges to EV sales are range, charging at home, charging on the road, high insurance premiums, high cost to replace the whole battery pack (not modular), ability of car manufacturer to shutdown your car, low resale value, and few qualified mechanics and parts. These need to be addressed before I am interested in an EV.
@@ritardstrength5169 You misinformation fukcs are a plague. Germany spends and is committed to continuing to spend on its defense above the NATO targets of 2% of total GDP. Given that, what is the purpose of your BS comment?
they still do shadow household tricks to scew it... its just there in theory, they dont really follow it... also for you to know, since germany said bye bye to russian energy there is a massive energy issue in germany which makes an EV swap or any form of energy intensive industry impossible
You missed the key reason Toyota has an EV. California mandate. If you are a US auto manufacturer, you must offer an EV to sell your brand in Cali. Most manufacturers HQ in California and the rest is simple. Also why Bz4x is such a dog.
compliance cars are still a thing. Go price out a 500e--nobody is buying these Fiats, the factory has to create an attractive lease deal to move the metal. All EV trucks and SUVs will be in the same boat.
No surprise when western car makers are pissing their pants and begging for mega tarrifs due to how terrifyingly cheap companies like BYD are selling cars for.
@@antcantcook960 they’re also the ones actually serious about selling EVs to the masses and making it viable in a market not even the US and European EV makers would expect like South and Southeast Asia. Maybe the world needs more big brother companies and less big greed companies that hasn’t been pushing forward the mass adoption of EVs in the last 5 years.
Realistically depreciation (considering you can't mark it off on your taxes, thanks neoliberalism) and because unlike all other property transactions you're retaxed when you sell your car (thanks again neoliberalism) thinking of a car in any equity context is a bit of a peril if not completely delusional.
@@Furiends The peril lies in having a large loan balance that the insurance company's check only partially pays off due to heavy depreciation. Just like a strong extended warranty is a good idea for those buying cars with bad reliability, strong gap coverage is a wise thing to add to an EV's insurance policy, although it will make the vehicle even more expensive to insure.
@@carlgarrett5142 Tesla insurance on Model 3 almost the same as a comparable BMW 3 series with same purchase price and performance. Tesla cars don´t have bad reliability, there are very few moving parts in the motors and transmission. 80% of Tesla owners replace their car with another Tesla, they have the highest brand loyalty and the Model Y is still the most popular car in the world.
We bought a hybrid in 2007. In 17 years we've had to replace the battery 1 time. We've gotten 270K miles, it still doesn't leak oil and the brakes last SO LONG. I expect another 270K miles with this car.
I think a lot of people just want a safe, reliable, kinda boring, car that they can buy and then not worry about for the next decade or two besides basic maintenance. Like, my idea vehicle right now would be a plug in hybrid compact crossover with a roof mount and towing kit in case I need to pull a SMALL trailer or carry some lumber home on the roof. No fancy 'self driving'. No always on connectivity. No 12 inch LCD screen hogging the dash. Just the basics.
@@speculawyer so the batteries are now easy to change and cheap? Is the cold issues solved? And is the electrical grid now able to produce enough power to recharge a significant amount of people with EV?
The model three is $30,000. It saves me about $2500 a year on fuel and maintenance. I leave it to you to do the math to see if that makes sense for you.
@@av_oid that is the way of things. I recently saw several 2018 model threes for over $25,000 on Tesla‘s website. It seemed odd to me that anybody would pay that much when they can get a new one for 30.
@@jellyd4889 it’s $33,900 with the federal which almost everybody gets. Seems like it does exist. Wait till you see the pricing that’s announced next month on the two seater.
A year ago a commenter on a forum here in Australia predicted that in ten years, you'd have to buy petrol by the can at hardware stores. I'm here laughing my ass off.
Eventually it will be hard to find fuel for ICE cars, and the price of gasoline/diesel will rise as their production loses economies of scale, but I expect that will be in 2050, not in 2035. However, it will happen sooner in some places like Norway and China, and later in places like Africa and South America, where the charging infrastructure takes longer to build out.
@@specialkcitizen6263only because of fuel duty and vat. Only vat on electricity from EVSE and their prices are way above petrol or diesel if fuel duty removed from petrol and diesel.
I am waiting for the Department of Transportation to take their billions of dollars from taxpayers and contract for charging stations instead of their current plan of just burning stacks of taxpayer money in the furnace to generate electricity.
listen we can't burn coal anymore and we just had the old plants laying around, and they said if we didn't get rid of the money we wouldn't get as much next year. tell me, WWJD?
I love the driving experience of my two BEVs. But if you cannot charge at home, EVs aren't for you. Even here in Norway, DC charging is often overwhelmed and also much, much, much more expensive than gasoline and power at home. I rarely pay on excess of 1NOK even in winter at home, 0.3 NOK in summer but at the DC charger it's 4.5 to 6.5 NOK. The only thing I do not recognize is the cheap used EV market, I'm unable to find reasonably priced vehicles.
Yeah, but the charging station must be paid for in some way. When you are paying 4-6NOK/kW, you are paying for the fact that someone has built the station, and they want to get the investment return and a profit.
@@SuperAnatolli But why would that be of interest to you? I also believe that petrol/gas stations operate with margins of 10%-20%, so I don't quite understand why the markup has to be 200%-500% for a DC fast charger, given that a charger is a fair bit simpler and needs less care than an underground storage and piping system.
Similar experience. We bought a new EV because the only used one we could find in our city was close to the price of a new one, so at that point why buy used?
Yes, I do think that both issues will improve over time. Especially the expense when the charger situation is dealt with. Most trips are only a few miles a day, and the older EVs that did exist in the '80s could handle that just fine. And with the improved rate of charging in modern EVs, the chargers in rural areas mostly need to be close enough that you can skip one if it's broken. The big advantage that ICEs have is that you can more easily bring fuel to it if you have to. As much as it sucks having to walk for gas, it's at least a thing that can be done.
Yup I think those are the biggest. For people with money who only use their car to commute to work every day and prefer to fly when traveling, EVs are the luxury option. Nice and quiet drive (or better music listening experience). Faster acceleration. No need to waste time going to gas stations since they charge at home. I won’t be surprised if my next car is an EV.
The biggest problem is every time I fill my cars tank the range is the same as the day I bought it, now with an EV every time I charge its battery the range gets smaller. I have a 2 year old phone that the battery has degraded 20% already. Imagine that in a greater scale in something that is supposed to last longer than a phone.
Your phone doesn't have full battery management or a heat pump. Most EV's have both. Typical degradation in an EV is 2 to 3% per year, which tends to slow down once the car reaches around 4 years old.. You don't have a clue what you are talking about....
@@Brian-om2hh It's a terrible technology to run a car on though and should never have got off the ground. Consumers don't want it and car manufacturers don't want it; they're only doing it because of political pressure.
Ev batteries can not be compared with cheap phone batteries. Batteries aren't the problem, the infrastructure often is. In countries that take progessive measures in making sure infrastructure roll out is done propperly ev's are doing fine. Things like not needing a dozen apps for a dozen different charging companies and making sure people without driveways can also overnight charge. And smaller ev's need to become more common as well.
@@Brian-om2hh And you do? Do you know the emissions produced when making an EV compared to an ICE? Its ridiculous, the amount you have to drive before your coveted EV gets back close to 0 effect on the environment is a joke
🤣🤣🤣 Showing a picture of the Hammerhead Eagle I-Thrust when talking about the cyber truck. That killed me!! 🤣 We went with PHEV Pacifica. The mileage varies due to weather n driving habits. Lower mileage in the winter and when on long trips. In general we are seeing +80 mpg now. My electric bill went up $20/month.
@@fools_opinions Its close to the drivetrain for the new RamCharger. Full battery with ICE generator. Top Gear used a diesel, the Ram uses the V-6 Pentastar (same one on my PHEV Pacifica).
I hate the constant beeps and notifications in modern cars. Always warning you of something. I get why they're there, I just dislike constantly being warned of something I am perfectly capable of watching out for.
"Hybrids are the future." Hello 2012 Prius buyer. Unfortunately it's 2024. The problem with this thinking is that hybrids are nothing new and in a couple years there'll be another serious of scare articles about how everyone is racing to sell their hybrids for dirt cheap. Full EVs aren't the problem. Car manufactures making cars impossible to repair and hyper prone to failure making the entire car not work because one part fails is. So is the fact no manufacture is making a basic EV for $15K. Every car manufacture should be building out charging networks with both fast (trip) chargers and slow (overnight) chargers.
Most car companies and people think they need huge battery. That is what is driving a lot of the prices. In reality most people would do fine with a battery as small as 30kWh (Hyundai Ioniq first gen) if the charging would be available and cheap.
@@Furiends _"The problem with this thinking is that hybrids are nothing new and in a couple years there'll be another serious of scare articles about how everyone is racing to sell their hybrids for dirt cheap..."_ Ignorantly troll much? Hybrids and PHEVs have been around for ages are typically have fewer issues than a basic ICE car, and in a lot of ways, a PHEV will last just as long as a EV since the ICE drivetrain gets far less use. The Chevy Volt was one of the most reliable cars in that class from Chevrolet (250,000+ miles with no significant repairs commonly referenced by owners) Same for the Prius, extraordinary reliability (just ask one of the _many_ Prius taxi drivers)
Surely one of the biggest reasons that US consumers will not buy an EV is that fuel in the US is so very cheap, this is the same reason that they still buy vehicles with appalling fuel efficiency. Where is the incentive to change?
EVs/ transit etc can only be implemented via subsidies because carbon tax is deeply unpopular. People say they want green energy, but they would rather let the planet go than pay more at the pump. Unfortunately we can't find the money for so many subsidies, which is why even the Inflation Reduction Act bill weakened the EV incentives by requiring stricter labor and materials standards. The only solution for EVs is bike lanes: broadly popular, cheap enough to build, and e bikes will be affordable even if there is a 300% tariff.
I'm more concerned about the fact there are no chargers where I live, subscription services to use the features I already bought, the throwaway nature of evs, the fact insurance companies are refusing to pay out in the event your car burns your house down, the fact you can't get out of your car if the battery dies, it doesn't charge or operate in winter conditions where I live, it's too expensive and finally there is no charging anywhere I might go.
As an American, I’m not purchasing an EV because they’re prohibitively priced, poorly regulated, unreliable, generally poorly designed, are vulnerable to outside interference to a degree that ICE vehicle is not, and have no standardized infrastructure. Fuel costs don’t even enter into the consideration.
Its not dead. Its back to very strong growth in last quarter. Your video did not aged well and car makers with no competitive EVs are collapsing in front of us. Volkswagen, BMW, Toyota, Porsche and so on all have plummeting sales as they are losing with great chinese EVs.
@@PrincessPattyPumpkin Yea thats a real thing. If you put that thing where you live, your insurance wont refund you if your place burns down. Theyll say it was an act of negligence.
As everyone now knows, an EV with a 'range' of 260 miles will only cover 130 miles in the winter. When an ICE car can do 400 miles in the winter and be refueled in a fraction of the time, battery tech will need to match this.
you can also have a jerrycan in the trunk in case of breakdown ... with an ev you need to be towed or someone needs to come with a generator. You pay a lot more for a much worse experience, features and resell value
What utter nonsense. Clearly, you have zero EV ownership experience. My Kia eNiro has around 230 miles of range. Even in Winter, I get 190 to 200....having a heat pump helps a lot.
@@SteveGamesplayer some regularly travel that distance in a day, and many occasionally do. And that creates an inconvenience that ICE cars don't give you. So what's the incentive to switch? The ROI is non-existent if you don't have home charging and even if you do the higher price of an EV means a long ROI if you're a low mileage driver. ps I'm an EV owner.
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Where do you get the idea that in "the UK where there are strong government EV incentives"? The only 'incentive' for all EV owners is zero VED, as it is charged on emissions from all cars. The salary sacrifice advantage on tax and NI only applies to employees of qualifying companies and not to private buyers. Besides which most people seem to lease a car these days. So no "strong incentives" really.
Does this provide transferable college credits or certification?
Wages have not risen noticeably for the working class, in the past…what, 30 - 40 yrs? I’m not expert, might have something to do with it
I also have invented a new way of mobilisation.
It's a single user pod.
You have a seat you can sit on. Your a bit straight, like on chair. It goes 28 Km/h even over speed bumps and trough red traffic lights. Charges in 2 hours.
The pod it selfs is invisible for self ceaning service when it rains. As a extra option there some special cloaths like bikers have.
My brother in Christ. Not being able to actually put the fire out is the bigger risk.
To charging station companies:
I don't want to sign up for your stupid app, I don't want to top up your special card with pre-set amounts, and I want every charging station functional, just like the outlets in my condo, since you are piggy-backing on that completely functional infrastructure.
99% of my financial interactions can be completed via card tapping. Why can't you get your collective acts together and replicate this? I have money, I want convenience.
Will not be recommending EV until this part of your industry changes.
they do that to track your movements and sell your data
@@liarwithagun that's the primary reason for most apps
100 %
Public charging (except Tesla) is so bad that the only conclusion I can come to is that there is little to no financial incentive to make reliable chargers with great customer service. Oil companies probably stand to make more money by spending on delaying the transition than on building infrastructure to support it. Half the worlds oil output is used to fuel light vehicles. Do the math and then you realise that every oil company has a massive vested interest in lobbying against pure EV , and probably for hybrids. Add to that the fact that legacy ICE (the people who have to actually switch their business model over) also want the transition to be slow and you have all the reasons you need to explain what's going on.
Hybrid to me is the only sensible choice. I want my car to run on combustible material that is not necessarily bound to a powergrid or the availability thereof@@bluetoad2668
Making EV non repairable filled with subscription services and data accumulation pushed people away.
@@gracicot42 adding untested unregulated underperforming 'autonomous' driving for some extra death tolls
YES they over played the money grabbing
that's also pushing people away from newer ICE cars. Truly a 4D chess move of all time
That's not exclusive to EVs though. Newer cars are all like that.
None of what you said is true, not a single word.
Italian here. Nearly ALL of those 20.000 electric cars are pretty much premium vehicles only higher-than-average people can afford.
They were pretty much just incentives for wealthy people. Common people pretty much got told to suck it up while kept getting blamed for polluting by having to go to work every day.
>italians
>work every day
In Italy, normal working time is 40 hours per week
@@Redmanticoreand that's the maximum someone should work. 8 hours a day 5 days a week.
@@RedmanticoreYes, that's the same across most of the EU / UK.
What was your point?
Commuting by car is stupid anyway.
They should change the battery technology. Adopt aluminium air battery, that is swappable and recyclable. It will be cheaper with longer ranger.
Currently, where I live, there's only one category of buyers who are really into EVs: homeowners who can charge at home and they already have an ICE or hybrid car. For them it's great. And that market is now saturated. Anyone living in apartments or buying first car are not looking at EVs at all.
Yup exactly like i'd consider an EV but I have nowhere to charge it. Not to mention I need to make long 400 mile trips occasionally to the middile of nowhere. I also think their generally overpriced like i've sat in a few tesla's and their interiors feel like a car half their price. I'm currently saving up and plan on looking at something like the ford bronco or similar when I go to buy a car in a few years.
Its a long way from being saturated. There's 82 million single family homes in the US.
Matter of time. Give it 5 years and technology will make ice cars obsolete
@@Speedkamfunny. The Gov and guys like you were saying (even mandating) the same thing in 2019, hmmmm, 5 years ago. You obviously didn’t watch this video or pay attention to the facts.
I see that combo in Europe a lot. 2nd car (ev) for errands basically. Upper middle class nonsense
It's not EVs being dead, it's car companies selling EVs that are $65K or more. Nobody wants that, they want a $25K EV that will last.
Yep, and there’s Tesla, ready to fill all that void.
It sucks because BYD makes affordable electric vehicles but the US gov has slapped them with 100% tariffs or whatever. Kinda pointless to import when a $20,000 mid-tier EV jumps to Tesla pricing.
@@nicholashubbard7146 you can buy a model three for $30,000. It’s the most American made car in existence. It’s a good feeling to support American manufacturing.
@@richardfolden3860 GM has one, Tesla is still too pricey. At any rate, every company should have one because competition is healthy. But they don't compete anymore, they collude. It's pathetic.
@@crashingatom6755 I would argue that the extra $5000 for a model three is a way better choice than the GM bolt. I don’t think it’s a choice that they are making not to sell a cheaper electric vehicle. They have no capacity to sell them profitably. This is the thing people didn’t understand about Tesla for years and years. They are literally a decade ahead of just about everybody else.
What pisses me off is that my government would rather subsidize these things rather than fixing the damned public transportation
EXACTLY!!
Because modern western governments are completely incapable of building anything affordably. It’s either spend billions on a public transport project that will be 10yrs late and 3x over budget or sponsor something people want to buy that already works.
There’s lots of solutions for this but they’d rather have the massive amount of binders of rules, pet mega corps that get repeated sweetheart deals, and special interests groups taking a piece
Anytime the government is subsidizing something it’s probably something you don’t want or need 💯
Without getting too political, I suggest you look into "demand destruction." They know they can't force EV adoption at scale. Hence, the push for "You will own nothing, and be happy" live in the pod, eat the bugs, and stay in your 15-minute city. They won't need to supply the masses with any kind of transportation because cars will only be for the wealthy who can afford to pay the carbon offset and gain permission to leave their region.
Is there anything against individual traffic. A used Diesel is not really expensive.
One thing not mentioned enough is that consumers don't want a car they are forced to take only to the dealer for repairs
EVs need service much less often though since they're much simpler. There are no spark plugs, oil filters or all the myriad other components needed by a gasoline engine.
There are EV mechanics, the manufacturers need to ensure open software.
And what did you expect of the EV mandate?
I go to the dealer for recalls. Other than that, EVs don’t need much. HVAC filters and brake fluid are driveway operations and I don’t believe in tire rotations. (I’ve replaced a lot of wheel studs over the years. Also had shops not tell me after missing jack points.)
@@S9uareHeadmy EV Kona has cost me £940 in total (£90, £150,£100, £600) for last 4 services. My wife’s 2011 diesel c3 has cost her £1100 in last 13 years in total.
My mom's got an EV. She's got more than 15 apps just to be able to use the different public chargers. She needed to make an account and sign up for every single one of those apps. Most of the time the chargers don't even work
Until they all adopt the Tesla/NACS charging standard it’s looking rough as hell. The charging infrastructure sucking and needing apps probably killed the dreams of fast adoption. Tesla is the only company that “figured out” charging, and they did it half a decade before anyone else
@@SuperAwesomeWeirdGuy The issue is that those chargers are paying for Tesla to function especially when companies need to pay Tesla to use them. These other companies have nothing generating revenue from their electric cars. Tesla is the only one that's working
@@SuperAwesomeWeirdGuyNah the others aren't going to let that happen. The moment Tesla way became the standard then Tesla will rake in much more money lol
charging those battery isnt practical
Maybe she just doesn't understand what she needs to do to minimise her accounts.
As a German, my perspective is this: In our market, EVs are either really expensive, or a bit shit. Its basically impossible to get a small, sub 25k €, city-capable (parking) EV that still allows me to cover the distance to my parents without being forced to take a charging break 90% of the way there. 400km real range is what I need, so the advertised range should be at least 600km, with cold temperature and a couple of years of usage calculated in.
500km real world range on highway driving is going to require 100kw packs. Hybrids are a better bet, but keep in mind, you won't win by having 1000km WLTP/NEDC range. The real world of having a 500km+ range is that you're in the car for 5+ hours. If the car is too cheap, you will need 12+ hours to recover from the fatigue/strain, especially bucket seats and 'comfortable' seats that don't hold up after 6 hours. Diesel VW's might be a solid car, but it's still an ex-lease or 6+ year old car to choose from if you want something like a hybrid/EV.
IDK. you can work out your own logistics and parking, but SUVs and the modern 'hatch' are not so different as the hatchbacks are becoming larger.
If you travel 400km to your parent's place, that's ~5 hours of driving. It's also $40 in fuel to do this regularly, not including food/tyre costs, 10 hours of driving on highways and hills for 'fun' etc. Its easy if you do it 5 times a year, rest breaks will save your sanity when there's traffic, or snow/iced up roads, snowstorms, et al.
I've done similar drives, but it's also impractical to do that regularly. having 60kw+ batteries makes the car heavier, so it's in the SUV/4WD bracket. Nothing can really be done as German/EU weather is too cold, and you're going to need a car with a ferocious heat pump to stop icing up overnight.
To stop the car losing power, you'd also need a blanket / shed in your parent's place, or to stop up on groceries before you arrive, depending on how long the drive is going. ABRP can do the math on highway/travel distances, since the cold weather + highway driving tends to make long drives insufferable in both fuel/ICE and EV cars miserable. Especially with icing roads and rest stops being next-town oriented.
If you only sometimes drive these kind of ranges the EV does pretty fine. They charge quiet fast so even my Zoe (purchased 2 years old with 18000km for 16k) with 350km does 1000km with 3 breaks around 30-50 minutes.
And you even save a bunch of money with your own wallbox... you do not even need solar to save...there are special plans that allow you to charge at 25 cent/kwh at night.
Anyway we had a lot of sunshine this weekend and tomorrow I take a free ride to Hansapark :)... no fuel to pay and savings went to a season pass for the family.
But honestly: People are quiet irrational about EVs and even more about used EVs... currently a great time to buy those used cars for a fraction of the original price.
@@GreyFox474 Hyundai Kona is what you are looking for.
500km real range and used you can get it for 25000-3000k
LPG.
I think "need" is a strong word here. If budget is a serious concern, your time probably is cheap enough that you could park and ride, or spend an extra 1-2 hours at a highway charger without suffering a terrible opportunity cost. Right now I have both an old gas car and a new EV because I am a productive commuter, but if I can WFH or retire I fully expect to be able to get by on a $5000, 50 mile range used Nissan Leaf. Dirt cheap to buy, and has enough range for groceries and train station.
It's not that I don't want an EV, it's that I don't want a rolling iPad. I don't want a car that hoovers up all my personal data and sells it to Google as I drive. (My phone does enough of that already.) I don't want a car that will brick itself because of one bad OTA update or worse, a malicious hack. And I really don't want a car that can't be repaired. That's what modern EVs are now: Disposable vehicles.
And good God, giant EV pickups are the dumbest cars on the road.
Then don’t buy cars younger than 20 years. ICE are as much data harvesters as well!
Even modern ICE cars have infotainment and similar complex software as an EV. Don't really see that as an argument against either type of vehicle in particular.
Just look up the jeep and KIA hack years ago - non of the affected models were EVs.
@@shmehfleh3115 uh why did my reply get removed? I basically said the same as Nic, but earlier 😂 so I got a message somebody responded but my response is gone 🤷♂️
@@NicMediaDesignyeah "modern cars" but you can still get a old car that doesn't have invasive infotainment systems.
I've been maintaining my cars myself since I started driving.
I have zero interest in expensive, unrepairable, mobile data harvesting appliances crippled by shitty apps and scam subscription services.
EDIT : Click the replies below to read mostly bad, hyperbolic takes, including mine.
Most of the non-Tesla automakers still let you do your own maintenance. As for the data harvesting... I'm with you on that one. Unfortunately, that's not just an EV thing; that's a new car thing in general. I will say that Chevy has *allegedly* stopped doing that since they got caught selling driving telemetry to data brokers, who then sold it to insurance companies. They also *allegedly* can only do that if you have an active OnStar subscription, and you can call them up and demand they disable the modem in your car. Fortunately OnStar sucks enough that it's removal doesn't actually impact the driver experience whatsoever.
I would still prefer to be able to physically remove or disable the OnStar modem entirely (unfortunately not really possible in the Chevy Bolt without completely disassembling your dashboard and de-soldering some components from the "infotainment" module; I checked), but I do like that you can disconnect it from their end.
th-cam.com/video/iJ5Fzx8_QBo/w-d-xo.htmlsi=AbkzIC316XeDwp2T
You sound like you're making a virtue out of a necessity.
There are cheaper cars, not all of them are 60k cars. Unrepairable? What would you want to repair? Change oil, spark plugs? There is nothing to repair. There are no subscription services, what are you dreaming about? As for the data harvesting, I don't know, I am not sure that new ICE cars aren't harvesting data as well. I am quite sure they are.
What do you mean unrepairable? Electric vehicles are practically maintenance-free. There is very little to maintain. The motor and the electronics require virtually no work for the life of the vehicle. The only thing that is hard to repair is the battery, which can also be repaired. Companies like EV west have been harvesting and repairing bad Tesla battery modules for years. It is a labor intensive process, not unlike an engine rebuild, which is why it hasn't caught on yet. Electric vehicles are nowhere near as common as internal combustion engine vehicles, so you get very little aftermarket support for most but Tesla has a pretty strong community and there are a lot of aftermarket, refurbished or used parts available for it, if you want to work on your own car.
If you want to repair the battery, you have to focus on high voltage DC safety first and then lithium charging/discharging process and bms systems. Then you would get in your ppe, remove the modules, go around with a multimeter to find the bad module, take it out. Remove the shorted cells in the module, and find new cells that would match the capacity of the remaining healthy cells. Close up. This is one way. But if your module is pretty old, chances are you will have to do this again in a year or so, if not sooner. At that time, you will need a new module and there are companies that provide that.
Remember when California told EV owners "don't charge your cars"?? I'm guessing that really helped the perception of the industry.
Because it would overwhelm the grid, right?
The end of EVs is not far
Like in Florida and NC now?
That's not what happened, you're regurgitating lies. In advance of a handful of peak demand periods, the California grid operator issues a Flex Alert wnich_asks_ people to use less electricity between 4 and 9 p.m., the same hours where electricity is the most expensive on a Time of Use plan. That leaves only 19 hours a day to recharge your EV for less money, or you can ignore the request. Because enough Californians actually care about their neighbors, peak electricity demand did not overwhelm the grid. California's electricity regulators could be a lot better, but this is not an example of failure. There hasn't been a brown out due to demand exceeding upply since 2020.
You can even get paid for using less electricity during peak demand periods. EVs are a variable demand that's _good_ for the grid.
@@skierpage in other words, they told Californians, "don't charge your cars," during the hours when most people would want to charge their cars. Thanks for the clarification!!
If everyone is a renter living in an apartment , then no one has anywhere to park and charge their car.
That's why I wouldn't even consider an EV. Well the primary reason anyway. The range is an issue, as I do sometimes drive 4+ hours. Cost of repair, sale price, etc. It's just worse in every way and more expensive.
This is certainly more of an issue in some areas than others, but of course not everyone is renting an apartment, and in most US apartments you can have a dedicated parking spot, so all the apartment owner has to do is provide plug in power for that spot, like they do at RV camping sites.
Over 50% here in sweden lives in apartments and depending on where it could be hard to find parking even as is.
I'm a renter and my building has an EV charger.
@@michaeltorrisi7289 There are already EVs on the market that can drive over 300 miles on one charge, though maybe out of your price range. Running costs are far lower than an ICE car unless you're paying mad prices for electricity.
Sales prices of ICE vehicles are also climbing, I can see EVs being the cheaper option in a few years.
When EV was first sold to us, we were told that it’ll mean cheap travel.
Fast forward a few years and roadside charging is now MORE expensive than petrol.
As always, greed killed it.
The charger companies have to amortize their costs across a fewer number of customers due to the long charge time.
And home charging is 2p per mile.....
Greed didn't kill it, the absurd government and Tesla subsidies made it so you could not make a logical choice comparing gas to electric. These things were NEVER cheap travel, it just looked like a deal because of subsidies. Free chargers were never going to last, and the time wasted charging makes them FAR more expensive than gas cars, even if the charging cost is similar to the price of gas, because 1.5 hours charging is worth a fair amount to most people. Its like when Uber first showed up, their prices were way better than taxis, but that was just a fake price paid for by gullible investors. The real price is very comparable to a taxi.
On the road, EV charging is still cheaper than gasoline. But 95+% of charging IS DONE AT HOME.
@@speculawyer Diesel & Gasoline is cheaper than electric. The vast majority of people live in apartments. Which means no private parking and no possibility to charge at home. For the vast majority of people, charging an EV is only possible through expensive commercial charging stations. Each of those needs its own subscription... 🤡🤡🤡
Imagine that you would need for every petrol station (BP, Shell, privately owned, etc.) a subscription just to be able to refuel your car. Even for the movie Idiocracy, it would be edgy.
One big factor on why adoption in Europe is sluggish is that the target customers are living in the city, yet most people living in cities in Europe rent apartments without dedicated garages.
Another reason is that mass adoption actually leads to *worse* outcomes for the individual owner, as most public charging spots now see more heavy use. For example, a newly built apartment complex in Austria included one (!) charger for all 25 tenants. This is great if one out of 25 owns an EV - not so much if eight do.
The problem is the infrastructure needed to support EV's isn't there. Not that people don't have garages. You need the infrastructure regardless. And that is a prohibitively expensive proposition, which leads to the question: "Who's going to pay for that? Who has that much money?" Which means eletric energy price will go up substantially. Someone HAS to pay for it, which means the tax payer.
The Netherlands alone currently has an energy requirement of around 13 PJ (13 000 000 000 000 000 J) annualy. How are you going to generate that if everything needs to be electric? Now take a country like Germany, France, the US. How large is their energy requirement?
Range, capacity and charging time are also a factor. I can put 50kg of petrol or diesel in a car and it has 100x more energy/kg than the energy that can be stored in 50kg of batteries. There is a mathematical maximum amount of energy that can only put back into a battery. Batteries are affected by temperatures impacting the energy you can utilize. And you won't be able put ther amount of energy back into the battery (memory effect). I don't have the problem with petrol/diesel; the amount of energy available can be used.
Once a EV battery catches fire, it is a chemical fire. And these are particularly nasty as they can self-perpetuate, meaning they can provide temperature, fuel and oxidizer all by themselves. That's why you see fire department either dump those vehicle in water or let it burn out.
For cities an EV has it's niche. But if you need to drive to the next city, it starts to become a problem. I can fuel up 50kg of petrol/diesel within 5-10mins where I would need to wait at least 45mins to charge a battery.
Of course I could pump more power into the charge, but then I need to take into account temperatures and I would need power per charger of around half a nuclear power plant (especially when I need to charge a truck).
Batteries also carry a weight penalty. For example, a regular combustion powered car in Europe weighs around 1200kg. Make that an EV and that same car weighs 1300kg. Move that to trucks and they quickly need to sacrifice around 50% of their cargo space to accomodate the batteries needed. This quickly becomes unviable from an economic standpoint.
This weight penalty also has an environmental impact, as an EV, due to its larger weight causing more friction, will generate more fine dust frorm tire wear, than the same car with a combustion engine. And the process of creating these battery packs isn't environmentally friendly, as I need to process the lithium and cobalt minerals required before I can use them.
Regardless of propulsion method, the law of Physics still apply. I still need a set amount of energy to move a mass of 1kg over a distance of 1m.
EV's aren't the end-all-be-all and certainly have their place. But complete replacement of combustion engines? Physics and Economics say otherwise.
That's just one of many issues. There's no infrastructure. The cars depreciate badly. They can't be repaired as easily. They are very overpriced when new, and you can only buy them new if you want them to work properly. They don't work when it's too hot or cold. The range is abysmal. They are loaded with surveillance. The ideologies behind them (carbon demonisation and global warming) is nonsensical anti-science. Overall these cars are only bought by liberal idiots, often leased. They don't have a future.
@@intenzityd3181 Global warming is not idealogy. It is a fact.
About 30% are living in high rise flats or apartments, which are mostly rented accommodation. Denmark has some of the tallest apartment's buildings in Europe.
@@intenzityd3181 so you're one of those quirky people who thinks all those climate scientists are anti-science huh?
My crappy little 2016 Nissan Leaf just happened to be perfect for me. It cost $7,000 to buy. For 99% of trips, I only need to go 20 miles or less, so the 80 mile range is plenty. It's small so it parks easily, and I have a garage so it's easy to plug in and gives me the equivalent of 160mpg in terms of electric cost. It has excellent acceleration and is really fun to drive. And for the 1% of trips that I need to go farther, I have an even crappier Honda van. This is in a mid-sized city in the U.S.
My 2011 Leaf cost one Oz of gold coin from a friend in 2020. It only has 60 kms range but with the use it gets, only needs charging twice a month. Usually from my solar system. I am a not rich engineer who set up life anticipating climate change. Watching the lack of clued up people around does not herald a secure future.
@@howardsimpson489So, your saying they're perfect who seldom need to drive anywhere.
UK : 2002 Toyota Yaris. Petrol. Cost me £1500+ (($2,000 )) used. .. 43mpg on short trips , (less than 5 miles) to the Superstores. Unlimited range! for 100 miles trips etc. I baby it, as I have a fast motorcycle and find no need to trash the engine. 85,000 miles - my mileage per year is so low I think it will fall apart before the engine dies. Insurance is £350 ($400 ). It's a Toyota - I wouldn't call it shitty -they're amazing. The back seats roll up forward(!) if I have to carry something much too big for the bike : chairs, excessive shopping etc. The rest of the time I use my e-bicycle(LOL) as I'm not as fit as I was (66).
I live in a block of flats. Where the hell am I going to charge the damn thing? finding parking is bad enough, now I have to look for a place to charge my car?! And in winter time when it gets down to -20 , I have to charge it every day?!
Unfortunately EV is not for you just like a helicopter or having a private BBQ in the back garden.
or a cat.
@@oliverharvey7561 well spotted 🤣
You'd have to drive to the moon to make it save you any money
The solution is functioning public transportation not more cars
In every country: government incentives = increased EV sales. Removal of incentives = declining EV sales. Who would've thought? BTW, every EV incentive is tax payer money going to wealthy households who can afford the premium of an EV.
Fossil fuel vendors and users have gotten away with 130 years of environmental destruction, global warming and societal health issues with out having to pay a cent for the damage they have caused - in fact they have received hundreds of billions of taxpayer money in subsidies. Government subsidies for a short while to help get EVs properly established is a drop in the ocean by comparison.
Fossil fuel subsidies dwarf EV subsidies and it happens every single year. If you took those away, everybody would be paying $15 a gallon and no one would buy a combustion engine ever.
@@richardfolden3860 And it would hit the poorest people who can't afford to pay for their transportation of goods and services, as the incentives are in place to help facilitate the transportation sector of the country. Remove the incentives, yay everything suddenly costs more. Incentives aren't always bad and are not just there to protect big oil.
@@EledorEldurn and that’s BS. Return the tax dollars to the people and let them make their own decisions. Economy would explode and there would be way fewer poor people. You have a very myopic opinion. And we are not even talking about the trillions of dollars and millions of lives (mostly poor people) lost “stabilizing” the middle east.
@@criticalthinkersrule and dead silence on the recent 1.4 million ton oil spill.
Many of us can only afford used cars... New or used a car needs to go 200k+ miles without needing an engine/transmission/or electric car battery pack.
Most battery packs will do double that with less than 10% degradation. Electric motors are far more durable and efficient
And as you heard on the segment, used EVs are apparently very cheap now.
@@deahelkcunklaer2180 what?! Even Tesla's newer battery tops at 144,000 where is your info from sir? Mine is what google said when I asked them. :P (Trust me bro got 4 thumbs up)
@@junkerzn7312 yeah but that battery pack cost more then a used car is the point. Thank you tho for helping me breathe a little better.
@@deahelkcunklaer2180 Regurgitating a marketing slide doesn't make it true.
I work in the EV industry and can confidently say that governments trying to push EVs to become a reality is the wrong move at the wrong time. Even the best batteries on the market do not have the energy density to replace gasoline or diesel at present, and even the most optimistic forecasts for battery performance growth do not predict them overtaking fossil fuels anytime soon.
As you pointed out, EVs are a great product for a certain sector of the market that can charge at home or at work and doesn't need them for long road trips, but they are NOT ready for global prime-time. The average person would be much, much better-served by a plug-in hybrid.
This! I have a plug in hybrid with a tiny 20 mile battery and over 90% of my driving is done on EV only.
I only need to fill up when I go out of town.
The time to reduce mankind's greenhouse gas emissions was yesterday!
That what bothers me so much. EV's do not have the range or tech to overtake gas at this point. Hybrids are a far better choice as they are the best of both. Great gas milage while also giving the quick fill up for long trips. I've seen plug in hybrids do this best for short commutes but still giving the ability to take long trips with ease. EV's need a huge refinement in battery tech before they are mass adopted. Far from an environmental savior (At least right now).
@@braixeninfection6312 plain hybrids are forever fossil fuel burners, just with better MPG. Plug-in hybrids are fine for people scared to go without a gas tank, but most people's first plug-in hybrid will be the last car with an engine they ever buy.
No, pure BEVs don't need a huge refinement in battery tech. If a plug-in handles most of your trips, then why not dump fossil fuel and buy a BEV? The idea that people will wilfully heat up the planet because they won't wait 20 minutes to recharge on a long trip is disgusting.
@@skierpage they really do need the refinement. It's not just about having to wait for a 20-minute charge (in my country even having that possibility is now stretching the national grid's expansion capacity very thin too), it's the immense power requirement for those fast charging stations, the batteries weighing a ton and the batteries getting worse very quickly with age or suboptimal weather, that latter part actually being where the vast majority of people will actually need to drive them in.
For a total conversion to be economically viable enough for people to actually take it on, we definitely need much lighter and much more durable batteries. The ultra-fast charging stations wouldn't actually be needed even for long-distance travel if the range simply gets big enough to cover an entire day's drive, which already has been a thing for many ICE cars for years, so if the batteries get light enough that will also help a lot with both the grid burden and the general scarcity of charging stations problems. With good enough batteries you could even have a battery swap system where batteries are charging at stations slowly but you could just swap an empty battery for a full one in less than a minute and continue on your merry way.
Germany: please buy EVs
also Germany: there are no public charging stations in 40% of towns
here is my surprised pikachu face when sales plummets after government drops the 5k€ incentive
Your last argument is invalid, as the car makers did reduce their prices by exactly what the rebate was earlier. Weird 🧐
Also Germany: Let's invest heavily in hydrogen infrastructure despite only selling 263 hydrogen cars in 2023.
Ots like fiberoptics all over again.
Especially with lower house ownership
what a stupid myth: we have more than enough fast chargers everywhere - far too few are charging.
Luckily the charging data are analyzed and germany has far too many to offer a profitable business. Those in cities can not expect a charrger per ev except the slow chargers on the lamps.
The 5 k incentive were no longer necesarry cause the fast had gotten an EV or multiple but YOU were TOO SLOW for what reason.
And then you missed the 5 k by the manufacturers, or what are you talking about.
No more incentives for evs - only the slow and stupid have not gotten the inventives and those slow do not deserve subsidies
I live in Ireland and own an EV (bought in early 2022) and I'd buy a hybrid if I were buying today. The reason isn't the resale value, it's the shitty infrastructure that hasn't kept up with the EV surge.
Live here as well, South Tipperary. ESB can barely keep the power going without the EV strain.
Plus u can always convert a hybrid to electric later if it makes sense to do so
The power grid in most countries has not been upgradd in advance of rolling out the EVs. Even if you can get a spot at a fast charger - if there are a few can they all run flat out or do they share it out and grind to a crawl?
You couldn't recommend EVs for people with a single vehicle. At best they are a runaround, unless you go with a behemoth.
@@faithfm1 no you can't lol
This never crossed your mind when you bought the car in the first place? WTF
After having an EV for 2 years, I prefer good milage gas or Hybrid. Have you ever been in a situation where you have less than 50 miles range with 2 charging places ahead and both of those charging places turn out to not be working? I have and it sucks. We need better infrastructure for EV's before I commit to another.
that infrastructure called superchargers of Tesla
Never ever again!😢
Have you seen the new Carolla❤
Nope never. I spent $400 and put a charger in my garage. I get home with 50-70% battery. I wake up full. I haven't had to stop for energy.
I will say home chargers don't fix the problem for renters. But if landlords start putting chargers in their parking lots it's problem solved.
As someone with a EV. You dont wanna sit around wasting time waiting for your car to charge at a public station. You want it to charge at Home while you sleep. Infrastructure is fine. I'll be honest with you I see alot of empty EV chargers around me. Unless people are roadtripping most people have realized how to charge at home.
Litterally cost less then a grand to put in a charger. I did mine for $500. I now have a charger in my garage for all future EVs. I won't go back to gas. Why would I wanna stop at gas stations. My cars always full
@@Bakyt3DI was in western upstate NY this weekend. For fun we looked up nearest Tesla Superchargers. 30 miles and 40 miles in the wrong direction. That means a 60 drive round trip for “fuel.” 😂😂
My EV has run 50 000 km without any problems. I have not even changed tyres. I will never go back to ICE.
Italian here. I would LOVE to switch to electric, but I can't.
Firstly, they cost too much. I can't afford it. Secondly, I live in an apartment, I don't have a garage or a parking spot. How could I recharge my vehicle?
The whole infrastructure has to change. Cities must offer credible mobility alternatives to cars, first of all. Than a robust charging infrastucture, nicely spread around. Than car manifacturers MUST go back to building nice, useful, compact, economic and reliable cars. Most cars on the market are too fucking fancy, needlessly big, useless amd expensive.
One of the largest EV Manufacturers in India gets around 80,000 complaints per month about their bikes. Their post-sale service is so awful that one buyer even burned down their dealership out of frustration.
They get 60000000 complaints about gas powered bikes. It's India!
Well it's India lol
That’s because Ola is selling an untested product!! You cannot blame that on bike being electric.
It's India. 😅😂
And that applies to whom and for what?
In my town, it is hard to find a parking space, never mind one with a charging station attached.
It’s the charging infrastructure. People don’t have range anxiety, they have charging anxiety. If I didn’t have a driveway and could charge from home, I wouldn’t have bought one.
Facts
nailed it mate.
I have range anxiety just thinking about an electric vehicle. - a gas engine owner.
@@jeffb321 Nobody cares about the range of an ICE car. Why? Because you can restore the range in a few minutes, tops. If you could do something like that with EVs (perhaps with a battery swap?), nobody would care about EV range either.
Absolutely nailed it!
I faced a big decision in 2022 when I wanted to buy my first brand new car. I had three options: a Hyundai, Toyota, or a Kia. I work as a delivery driver for Doordash, Instacart, and Uber Eats, so I don't have a regular hourly job. I thought I had enough money saved up for a down payment, but my credit score was not good enough. I heard that you need a credit score of 650, and I had a credit score of 750. However, the type of credit I had was not accepted by the dealership. They only offered me a 17% interest rate on the auto loan, which would have meant paying almost $1,000 a month. This made it very difficult for me as a working person in a low-paying job to afford a new car. It felt like the system was not designed for people like me. I also heard stories of people maxing out their credit cards to buy new cars, only to end up not being able to afford them in the long run. It's frustrating to feel like all these new advances are not meant for people like me.
You can buy a car that is 2-3 years old. It would be much cheaper, for 90% of the performance.
Eat ze bugs
I'll be honest, from a car point of view you want to cross Hyundai and Kia off your list. They are POS vehicles that will fall apart as soon as the warranty runs out. I'd add a Honda civic to the list. Not at all sexy, but you can pick up even a 2012 model for cheap and it will go like an energizer bunny if you just keep up with the regular maintenance. The only expensive catch I had was around 150,000 miles the axle boots tear like clockwork and you do need to have that fixed. The Toyota Corolla will be the same story. Even an old one goes like an energize bunny as long as you respect the maintenance interval and pay $60-120 for your regular service. New car may be sexy, but if you are struggling for finance at all do research into good secondhand models.
Buying a new car is a waste of money
Buy yourself a nice vehicle, that's two to three years old.
The market that flips their car every 3 to 5 years is not that large. New, or even used, EVs are very expensive. My last car cost $4000, not $34,000. I looked for a used EV. They were all over $20,000, for a used car with a questionable battery. I can't afford to take the risk.
How many miles do you think you'll get out of a $4000 car? I agree that EVs are to expensive but at least in my experience in my family a $4000 car is another $2K to get it running well and another couple thousand down the line to keep it running in the next 3-4 years. I have had zero repair costs and low maintenance costs for a car that cost me $20K and it's now been 5 years. However if I had to pay the last work done under warranty it would have been $3K plus another minor repair would have been $900. This is almost all because of labor cost. The parts are like $200 lego pieces. Its no sweat. Then you realize there's like 10 people in the entire state that can work on your car and you shit yourself.
The model 3 is about 30k new. It saves me about $2500 a year on fuel and maintenance. Hard to imagine a car more economical than that.
Don't listen to the obvious bias from the comments above - you made the right choice. I owned a hybrid for around 5 years that was older and even though it was reliable (Toyota) no one knew how to work on it and the parts were exorbitantly expensive (it also needed a new battery pack which was $4500+). My next car is a full gas engine and never been happier with the choice. Electricity is expensive too, not sure why people keeping talking about "charging" like it's free.. maybe if you finance solar panels for $30k @ 8% APR over 10 years, sure.
Be glad. EVs depreciate like all electric appliances. The depreciated like laptop computers, and left most "adopters" stuck in under water loans. EVs are the road to financial ruin.
@@Furiends I got 11 years out of a $1000 Toyota Tercel, and didn't have to put substantial work into it for about the first 6 of those years. At the end of those 11 years, I sold it for what I originally paid for it.
"Obviously that's really shameful customer service from Hertz." It's the sort of thing you expect from car rental companies in the US.
*everywhere
Lol... research some of the things Hertz has been sued by their customers for doing. 😋
Usually the problem with hertz is finding out that months ago someone handed your rental in late and it had been reported stolen
Usually you find out at gunpoint.
It's the kind of thing you can expect from companies in the US*
Hertz is a joke now. Leto law has done a lot of stories on the sh!tshow that their service is.
52 mpg, minimal maintenence, no range anxiety, 100,000 brake pads, bad battery? $900-$1200 for a replacement done in less than 2 hours and I don't have to do anything but sit and watch?...yeah, bought a 2016 Prius I couldn't be happier. Hybrid is the way to go right now.
People make fun of Prius drivers but when talking about pure economy they are the absolute best. Very few vehicles match that kind of efficiency long term.
Nope, there’re more expensive to buy than a small petrol equivalent and you loose more when you sell against the petrol equivalent, your also doubling the complexity of the drivetrain for very little gain.
Smallish petrol is the smart way to go nowadays.
Why would you replace the battery, when a battery pack refurbishment costs a fraction of replacing it?
Depends on where you live. In my country, prius cost 50k USD. And an EV with same size cost 25k USD. Why bother buy hybrid while you can buy EV with half the price? That's why in some country Toyota really become a greedy dinosaur.
Chinese cars with a serial hybrid began to be brought to Russia (after the sanctions), that is, the car has an engine, it is needed only to charge the battery! This is better than the Prius, as there is a choice to drive on electricity or in a mixed cycle when traveling long distances!
Nobody is buying EV's.
Nobody is buying overly expensive mid range European made EV's.
Sooo... Toyota were right all along, yet they were called a dinosaur brand for doing hybrids! 😂😂😂
I wish i boight Toyota stock when CEO said they werr going hubrid
At this point a hybrid sounds pretty good. Only if you could work on it yourself and not need a special computer to plug it into.
I told my kids 25 years ago, just get a Toyota.
You are confusing different hybrids. Toyota produces hybrids in which the ICE turns the wheels, and in a plug-in hybrid, the electric motor turns the wheels, and the ICE constantly charges the battery. The Toyota's hybrid is really dying, and the plug-in one is growing in popularity.
@@ДмитрийАндрианов-й4ы It's different across the markets. In Japan (which is still Toyota's home turf) PHEVs are not very popular (shit charging infrastructure which can't really be fixed short-term) but the regular hybrids sell like crazy. EU massively favors plug-in vehicles, especially the Western portion. Others are slower to adapt but they often buy used and maintain long-term. China is currently heavily EV focused. US is a mixed bag with wild differences across states.
Also, the hybrids in Toyota all work on nearly the same system ("Hybrid Synergy Drive", 2 EE + 1 ICE, the plug-in version has a ratchet in the newer generations that effectively increases electric torque by preventing backspin on the ICE), the battery in the plug-in version is just bigger.
I live in California, it's funny how bad the state has managed all of this. I live more inland, so the weather has been consistently over 100 degrees. I get almost daily e-mails from the power company advising of a conserve energy alert in effect. The list includes: not running major appliances, turning off any unnecessary lights, turning your AC to 78 degrees, and, you guessed it: not charging your EV between the hours of 4pm to 9pm. The state keeps pushing all these campaigns to buy electric, but they can't even keep the lights on now. Not to mention that there are far and few locations to charge these vehicles. The local ones are either always packed or out of order, and since most people rent in California, the "you can charge it at home" argument doesn't really apply here either. Last but definitely not least: Apparently enough people in California must have bought EVs, because now California is trying to come up with fun and creative ways to subsidize what they're losing out on in the way of less money collected from gasoline taxes.
Cali is a meme state who needs to close its borders to people who want to leave. Live with the decisions you made, don't export them. Your lawmakers knew the electrical infrastructure in the state, and chose EV mandates. Own it. Stay there. Don't move and export their bad ideas.
@@oljimmy159Guess you do not want their money export either right ?
I keep getting told by retards how terrible the Texas grid is as they praise the other grids in the US... but I rarely get notifications to conserve power and it's in the 90s and 100s for months on end where I am.
Don't most people charge their cars over night? You change your electricity tariff to have cheap night time rates and set the charger to charge during the low rate hours. Here in the UK you save about 75% by doing this.
I see you're point but must people who'd benefit from an EV are those that can charge at home over night. 300 mile range on mine does mean long journeys need detours to super charger stations though.
Like Patrick said. For a lease I'm happy with it, great car. But I wouldn't but one sure to resale value and battery degradation.
@@adamostman3509what money? They’re billions in debt and keep getting bailed out by other states and the feds.
Cant wait for the EV taxes to start rolling out.....
They already do, I pay like $200 extra dollars a year in my registration to compensate for the gas taxes I don't have to pay.
Still got time until 2030 😎
Can't wait for the World will end support BIG OIL with 7,000,000,000,000 $ every year....
This as it turns out is quite a can of worms. Firstly I don't find it offensive to pay a tax having an EV in place of the gas tax everyone else pays. I do find it offensive that if a state is trying to incentivize EVs why would they even bother with the overhead of this tax right now?
Now lets dive into the weeds: the insane ways the federal tax system complicates state road funding. Any federal funding to state roads comes strings attached which is why even though most of road funding has nothing to do with the gas tax it never the less makes the difference in many state road projects especially when they conflict with federal priorities. And that's much more true now given how many cities want more pedestrian friendly roads and less highways. These go directly against federal priorities.
Toll roads (most of them anyway.. more on that) are.. hilariously one of the best tools state and local governments have for road projects that follow local design priories. These work as revenue generating assets that can be setup as a fund that can raise capital with low financing costs. Ironically still while drivers can use a low cost transponder and these roads typically are less than a couple dollars drivers are never the loss wary of tolls because of poor information and the everpresent hilarious fuckyou tolls of 30+ dollars or the poor design of mapping applications that will either keep you on toll roads or avoid them completely even though this is a poor strategy. Maybe one segment of a toll road saves 30 minutes and the rest doubling or tripping the toll will save a couple minutes.
We should probably just normalize a hefty registration tax based on miles driven and vehicle weight. It sucks but this is just more in line with the real costs of maintaining roads. All of the Ford F150s are tearing up the roads more and taking up more space and causing more severe accidents and property damage than a coup or even a compact SUV. We should get rid of all preferential treatment for "light utility" vehicles for emissions that are just small tanks on the road. As well as tax and regulate primarily based on vehicle size.
They started in texas. Car registration went from 7 to 200 dollars last year for evs.
That new Cybertruck model is fire 2:40
A dumpster fire, maybe...
Never be an early adopter of any new tech. A laser printer cost $10K in 1984 (close to 30k today). Within a few years, they were $1000. Now they’re about $200 in early 90s dollars.
Even cheaper used. Laser printers always work
Just Wait 40 years....
Today's electric vehicle technology has been around for about a decade. Unlike laser printers, we shouldn’t expect a significant drop in prices because the technology has already matured and is being produced at scale. Apart from the electric motors and battery packs, the majority of a modern car’s components are even more established.
But that doesn't take into account that today's laser printers are absolute sht and now all require $75-100 toner cartridges.
Also, EVs are no longer new tech, and for that matter, EVs existed over a hundred years ago in the USA. The irony is the electric motor starter is what played a hand in killing the EV then.
Electric vehicles have been around for 200 years, what are you talking about 🤷♂️
I don’t want a computer with wheels, just a car
Hard to find an ICE-car with carburettors and mecanical ignition in 2024.
Most modern cars are computerised. They need to be to comply with emission standards.
And that attitude is more common among older people, and less common among younger people. That’s what we call a secular growth trend for microchips in automobiles.
@@mcstaalno it isn’t, I drive one everyday. They made millions up until about 1995. New cars are for absolute suckers.
Not an EV argument , You are talking about new cars , all new cars
Other problem is that EV performance numbers are unreliable in colder climates. A finnish EV owner won a lawsuit against a car salesman because the car battery was advertised to last for 100 kilometers during winter, when in reality it lasted less than half of that. Batteries in general have issues in colder climates, mobile phones in jacket pockets can easily lose all their power in less than an hour if the day is cold. Car batteries are no different so EVs could even be outright dangerous to use in rural winter roads with no charging stations around.
Come on, if this was a big problem, Norway and Sweden would not be on the forefront of BEV adoption.
@@Workaholic42 just because they are adopting them does not mean they do not have these problems.
@@Workaholic42 You don't see EVs in rural regions of Norway and Sweden, they're confined to be city cars in those countries.
Norway has the huge advantage of hydro electricity plants and an efficient grid system. Thus buying an EV in an urban area makes an EV an attractive option. But in rural areas, it's more advantageous to go with ICE.
@@Ziegfried82 But it does mean if those problems were real we would be hearing about it all day long.
Great reporting, Patrick. Chock full of facts and interesting insights. I followed your tip to Brilliant. Great fun for anyone who wants to learn. Keep up the good work!
I bought a Prius in 2006 and drove it for 14 years before the battery finally crapped out. I'm an urban dweller but I do make longer trips now and again so the hybrid was perfect for me. I loved that car. One of the things I've seen in the city lately is a lot of eBikes which make total sense. I suspect eventually, as the infrastructure grows, EVs will become more popular but hybrids are so universal with their self-charging batteries I think they'll be dominant for a long time.
Does the engine not operate by itself if the electric motor goes out?
The Australian government is bringing in a tax on hybrids.
@@Maruman_manIt will. You just won’t get the hybrid-like efficiency anymore.
Hybrids of the type Toyota built have never been dominant and will never be. My suspicion is, since they are a sensible and rather obvious idea, they were not compatible with politician's brains. Much better to support a tech that makes regular ICE cars heavier without forcing their owners to actually use what little electric range their cars provide...
@@Maruman_man It works all the time. As opposed to plug-in hybrids, it's basically an ICE car with energy recuperation, and little electric support motors with small batteries. The car generates electric energy from braking and slowing down, then uses that same energy directly to re-accellerate. This saves a lot of fuel in city traffic. Once a car is rolling at a steady speed, it doesn't use all that much fuel anyway, so no need to lug around a big heavy battery for fully electric driving.
My sister has an ev provided by her employer who also allows car charging at their offices completely free of charge. My brother has an ev through a salary sacrifice scheme in which large government subsidies make it cheaper for him and he also gets free electricity charging at his offices. I don’t get any subsidies but do pay high levels of tax to allow subsidies and free electricity to be handed out to fairly wealthy professionals. I have a 2007 petrol car which I repair and service myself and pay high levels of tax for fuel, Road tax, insurance and ownership costs. It is like Robin Hood in reverse!
That's environmental Classism or eco elitism for ya.
People caught on to this, there's a reason green parties have all tanked throughout europe.
And meanwhile your, along with everyone else's, carbon exhaust puts a massive burden on taxpayers as climate consequences accumulate over time. Self-sufficiency, but with a price thats really the opposite and relies on tax mitigants. Instantiating capital within a nascent market which leads to sustainable models is what real self/collective-sufficiency is.
@@VesperAegis Passenger cars are a small fraction of the carbon budget. Huge amounts of CO2 produced making the things. While the power infrastructure continues to use fossil fuels, EVs are just for the virue-signalling rich. The only plus is zero emission at point of use, keeping the air in cities cleaner. Keep drinking the Kool-Aid.
@@VesperAegis Nobody cares. Go and cry more. I love my 2005 diesel. EV's are bland, boring, overpriced and not practical for most people.
@@VesperAegis Please go look into carbon emissions and rekognize most carbon emissions is not from cars! You have been brainwashed into your believe that CO2 is creating the clima changes. The climate has been changing ever since the the earth got created. Change in clima maked the fall of the roman empire and Egypt. Methane gas is worse than CO2. EV's has a hughe impact on resource consumption. Clean water consumption to make Lithium is enormously large. Calculation shows that there are not enough resources to replace all the ICE cars with EVs. But no green hipster will ever talk about the real cost and pollution of EV. Minor damage to a EV and it's taxed as a written off and go straight to the trash. But then it will be recycled you say? Recycling is simply mitigating the overconsumption of poorly produced goods that's not repairable!
I live in Europe, I bought my car for 1.5k and it gets me 3.2l/100 which is like 800 miles per tank. Until I can get a comparable used EV that has the same mileage for the same price I really couldn't care less.
EVs are still too new. It takes time for used cars to flesh out all the market segments. "Top Gear" had a segment filmed in Vietnam where they tried to buy used cars but cars in general there were too new to be affordable at their budget, so they had to use motorbikes instead.
1.5 thousand or kronor?
@@Backinblackbunny009 yes
@@natehill8069 You can get EVs at 1.5k. They have near dead batteries 🤣
'sure, the planet will be uninhabitable. but if i can't get the mileage i want, i couldn't care less'
guess that's how we died off
When gas got expensive in the late 70’s did WW2 vets go out and buy honda civics? No the early adopters were boomers straight out of college buying them for a few thousand new and a few hundred used. This transition is stifled by that market having very few models in the range that most people can afford and unlike the 80’s we are blocking imports.
If a manufacturer brought out an EV that was cheap to repair and reasonable to replace the battery it would sell like crazy.
Yeah the Chinese already did this. That's why Uncle Sam doesn't want you to have it and put a 100% tariff on it, cause "freedom" lol
Same for ICE. Toyota makes basic pick ups in gibraltar but they only sell to govs and ngo s for africa, south america and such
Your so programmed to think about repairs and repair cost you can't even conceive of a well made car that doesn't need maintenance.
@@Luca280If you know of one, why don't you tell the class
@@Luca280 What a silly point. It is amazing a motor vehicle is as reliable as it is. That they are as reliable as they are, whilst being exposed to the elements as well as the rigours of use is pretty amazing. They hit a peak in the 2000-2010s. Since the 2010s they've been going backwards, look at VW reliability.
A car rental company known for falsely accusing their customers of stealing their rentals has bad customer service - imagine that.
In Italy public charging station are selling the kWh by one euro or more.
Go figure why no one drives electric, when it's more expensive than petrol.
5km per euro?
Gas in Italy is about $8.00 a gallon. You are also quoting DC public charging prices.
Gas would have to be $0.65 a gallon to be cheaper than my home electricity.
Weird that you take this as argument.
I now own an EV for six months and have only charged DC once to try it out.
Aside from that I charge at the house I live in for 30ct/kWh in Germany. 😊
@@NicMediaDesign hell the previous owner of my ev in NY USA never charged it on DC at all.
Also took a 600 mile trip using only one 50kw charger an a 25kw one. These people are such snowflakes.
@@NicMediaDesignYou live in a house. A lot of people do not live in a house, and thus can't charge at home. Therefore, your economics are not theirs.
As an owner at one point in time of two EVs we actually traded one of them out for a plug-in hybrid electric vehicle. This is because we like electric vehicles but we don't like road tripping with electric vehicles and so the plug-in hybrid electric vehicle is our road tripper.
Just wait till insurance goes up when it is parked in a garage of a housing complex.
Some never knows when a membrane of battery fails.
We dont hear of hybrid batteries burning up, only EVs. And now that car insurance rates have skyrocketed for EVs, the writing is on the wall.
Look into California wanting to tax ev now that they are losing money on the fuel taxes. That’s nuts.
In Texas, the annual registration fee is about three times an ICE. My Cadillac suv registration is about $80/yr. A Tesla is around $210
@@TisDana well the added weight increases road wear, and the fire department needs upgraded to contain Tesla fires, so actually the Tesla is still undertaxed
You are undertaxed considering the road wear and other issues
Yes get an electric car in the place with yearly rolling blackouts and fires
EVs should be taxed more. They're more expensive and worse for the environment.
There are so many reasons ICE vehicles will be around for a long time to come, but the main one is: Refuelling my vehicle takes less than 10 minutes and gives me over 1,000 km of range.
Think on these two facts:
1. ICE get only 8% of its fuel usage from petrol and the fuel tank. The rest is free energy from the air. An EV has to carry 100% of its fuel. This makes these vehicles far heavier and far more explosive.
2. An ICE engine + fuel tank can and does last 100 years or more. 60 years is a reasonable average. The bodies of the cars can last just as long as long as they are looked after.
Compare to an EV. Their bodies can also last 100 years or more. But... their engine + fuel tank. That is limited to 10 years or even less. When the engine + fuel tank dies, the vehicle is beyond economical repair in many instances. Our landfills are already filling up with EV with mint condition bodies. That is a tragedy and massively wasteful. Remember this when they claim that EV are green.
With my EV i dont even spend 10min because it charges over night in the garage. People yust dont get it that no one needs 1000km range for 90%+ of the time.
@@rsamd good luck with that in Vienna or Prague. Where having car is already painful, not only having a garage for it
@@rsamd
“Ppl just don’t get it”
No, you just don’t get it. We are how many years into the EV push, and despite it all ppl still don’t want them. It doesn’t matter what you think ppl want or need. They’ll reveal that with their purchases, and they aren’t purchasing EVs.
Believe it or not, some ppl actually like to go places. They don’t just float around in a 15 min Urban bubble.
@@firstandforemost87 To be fair, marketing can make people extremely stupid. Look at the rising "family pickup truck" market in the USA.
I live in California and have been driving a Tesla Model S (large sedan) since 2015, I charge it at home, and have taken many long roads trips. I love the car and will never return to driving an ICE car. Tesla has built out a vast reliable and easy to use Supercharger charging infrastructure in the US, Europe, and China. My son lives in an apartment in Los Angeles and has no problem keeping his Tesla charged at one of the many Superchargers in the area. The batteries last for 500,000 miles and more. No other auto maker can make a profit selling an EV because they don’t know how, which is why they are pushing hybrids.
Those who lives in residential building almost never have a place to charge, and for trips the infrastructure of charging stations are terrible..
I would love an EV, but I don’t have where to charge and absolutely hates subscription enforcement
In Germany your landlord has to allow you to build an 11kW charger. So if this is not possible where you live, you have to lobby for similar laws.
I'm not actually convinced this is a problem. ANY EV on the market can be charged with a 30amp outlet. Many states make it illegal for a landlord to prevent hooking up an EV or installing a charger. It's now legal in most states to put an adapter on your meter with an EV charger hookup.
@@NicMediaDesignReally? Even for apartment buildings with no parking lot or garage? How, pray tell, does that work? Is everyone issued a really long extension cord?
@@Furiends sure sure, pray tell how "green" that is.
the environmental impact of most evs are horrendous and the purported more greener fuel use is actually on its head in most places(especially when you calculate the battery production in), the lesser places being your solar paneled home in which you'll have to leave the EV to charge to go to work with your actually usable car.
i've got noting against the EVs themselves, but im a realist and they dont cut it in the real work.
when an EVs charged on 60% fossil fuel electricity (or in other words the pipe is just further away from the car so you cannot see it), it can be more equivalent to a regular ice that produces about 170 g/mi
@@xerr0n that assumes the energy mix will remain the same but that is not the direction most countries are going. Almost every developed country is steadily reducing their carbon output for energy generation, meaning your point gets less and less relevant as years go by. That said, if you really wanna be ecological you obviously shouldn't own a car at all.
As someone with a hybrid (non plug in) i prefer that way not than a regular car or ev. I get 56-63mpg. I have a 10 gallon tank and i go weeks before gasing up. It's 90 seconds to fill up, slow to lose gas, costed me 3-3.5k more in upfront cost. It's also way more maintainable than evs. I can ask a local mechanic to do something on my car, but when it's fully ev (like my mother's car) it's way more expensive and needs to be done at a manufacturer where they charge insane markups. Like 300-600 bucks for a charger if your charger has a malfunction. Hybrids, both plug in and non, are better. They're fuel efficient, cost effective, and can be used in extreme climates. When we had -20 degree weather, the only thing that changed was that i got the same mpg as a fuel effective gas car.
EVs are good for charging at home/work commuting. They are way superior to ICEs in this use case. Forcing everybody to EVs by banning combustion engines is peak EU insanity.
Frankly I can look over all the downsides of EV ownership aside from the fact that these manufacturers can just shut off my car, prevent it from charging and track everything I do with it.
Why exactly might they want to "shut off" your car? What advantages or benefits would it give the manufacturer? And if you use a mobile phone, you can already be tracked.... No car manufacturer has control over home EV charging in the UK.
@@Brian-om2hh they can shut off any out dated product they no longer wish to support… like any piece of tech…
Are you not aware that car manufacturers are tracking all of your speeding and driving records and sending them directly to insurance companies to raise your premiums? I assume you have no problem with that though, after all, you have a cell phone.
When you need government subsidies to keep your business running, it probably isn't a good business/product.
Note that, e.g., Diesel cars are heavily subsidized in Germany as well.
It's actually a great “business” model. Suck money from taxpayers. The easiest way to make money is to get money from the government. It's a lot easier than making a profit by making a useful product.
arddel i agree. But how can i make a company that gets subsidies?
@@philipfisher8853 Create some phoney need, then bribe the right press and politicians to make it a mandate. But watch out for Elon. He'll see you coming, take less money from the government, and actually make a product that works. Just ask Boeing.
@@philipfisher8853Plant stories in the press about the need then support politicians to create and fund a mandate. But watch out for Elon. He'll take less money and actually deliver a working product. Just ask Boeing about Starliner.
I thought Electric cars were rubbish, then I got an Elon Musk brain implant. Now I have three Telsas.
Well, the EVs are still rubbish, but the implants! They're superb!
You did it wrong. Most people get one Tesla and three Musk brain implants.
😂
Expensive, non-green and potentially very flammable. I rather own a BMW M-Series.
If govt can ban ICE engines by 2030, they can mandate that if you want a job you need a Tesla brain implant. It's the same logic... we will force you to buy this product by making other products illegal.
Hertz and terrible customer service, name a more iconic duo, I'll wait.
Boeing and quality control.
@@JB-yb4wnBoeing and ignoring laws and safety guidelines.
Boeing and emergency landings
Boeing and dead whistleblowers
@@McUsernameFace you got me there, bro
Comcast and AT&T?
I’m on my third EV. I also have a gas pickup, but expect I will always have at least one EV going forward. They drive amazingly.
I would love an EV, but I'm not at the point in my life I can afford a brand new car of any kind, and EVs aren't affordable on the used market yet.
And there's the main reason most people don't have an EV yet.
I would say what’s affordable to you because you can find a good ev with less than 60000 miles for under 20000 dollars right now
Recently i saw a small key truck from 2017 for sale, at 1500 euros.... But it needed batt replacement..called the dealer to find out...12k for the 17 batteries replacement. New was 17k at the time. Ridiculous.
@@guachingman damn wtf
@@guachingman wonder if you could pick a part the batteries at a local yard 🤷♂️
EVs are no different to Tulip mania - Ford/VW etc watched TSLA share price boom in 2021, wanted to become TSLA2. Who wants to wait 20 minutes at a station on the M-Way? Who wants their car to be exploded remotely like a Hezbollah pager? The collapse in 2nd hand prices has further to go imo.
😂😂 Love the "Cybertruck" pic!!!
:) Top Gear
Hammerhead Eagle i-Thrust
but why did the EU & US raise tariffs on EVs coming from China? If according to the data EV sales are declining why should the Government be concerned about EVs coming from China? Does the data shown only apply to EVs sold by Western Brands? Or is it because of the tariff hike that EV sales are declining?
wait what's the point of a company making a "commitment" if they can just walk away from it
Market realities dude, market realities.
😂 It’s like when a politician or CEO says “I take full responsibility” but suffers no consequences.
When Hitler got elected every company was forced to make commitments and pretend to like his brand of socialism. Green energy mandates from modern socialist like Biden and Harris are no different. Companies know they have to weather the storm and wait till the misguided mandates are ended
Speaking from China, where I've been living for 6 years, the situation here is bolstered by the charging infrastructure in the cities, where EVs are common. Even the cheap EVs are quite a smooth ride, but in countries with large journeys across undeveloped spaces the charging issue is significant, hence the hybrid sales I'm guessing.
As for the fire stories, you make an interesting point; there are many public safety videos about this in China, designed to encourage sensible parking for charging. But I've never seen a car fire in the 6 years I've been here, and I travel a lot.
For longer trips do people tend to just use the high speed rail instead of driving?
@@MorbidEelI'd say so. Public transport is super cheap. For example high speed rail from Shanghai to Beijing the distance is about 1500km, but ticket costs only about €75. You can't do that in the west.
Do you use VPN or Shadowsocksr to access TH-cam in China?
@@MorbidEel Well, there is that factor yes. There are a lot of drivers who go long distances - I have a friend who uses a petrol Haval (Chinese brand) 4x4 and regularly drives 100s of miles instead of using trains - he just prefers it for comfort etc. There is also the air travel factor to be considered - China has developed a large domestic airline industry. I would say when visiting the further reaches of Western China there were fewer EVs around, most of the taxis we took were petrol driven, but local people were charging their EVs from home, as the compact EVs like Wuling are good for shopping trips but definitely not for long haul journeys.
@@jamirajamira7303 you cant do that in the west of china? why?
Car manufacturers are making a big mistake by killing off their famous named petrol/diesel models. VW with the Golf, Passat, and Polo; and Ford with the Fiesta, Mondeo, and Focus....to name two of many manufacturers.
People STILL want these cars! They don't want ID2's ..3's etc or 'Grandlands', 'Pumas', and 'Capturs/Kadjurs' etc.
The reality is that in the UK (at least), the EV charger network outside the South East simply isn't reliable or well established enough for people to swap their petrol cars for an EV. Then there are the number of charging points that are never working properly. Alot.
People find petrol cars easier because of the sheer number of petrol stations there are. You just go in, fill up and are out in less than ten minutes. No waiting around for half an hour (or more) while your car charges up. That's fine if you are able to grab a meal; but a pain in the wotsit if all there is is crisps and chocolate bars. But it's still inconvenient compared with the time spent in a petrol station.
Ford killing off the Fiesta is especially ridiculous...just at the time when the small 'city car' market is becoming very competitive. They will soon rue not having a small car in their range.
But we basically need to go back to smaller cars again. Most cars now are just too big, and people are finding them difficult to drive because of this - even with all the 'assistance technology' that they come with.
It's not that our roads are shrinking in size....but that cars are getting bigger with each passing year. And sooner or later this trend will need to stop.
US beancounters killed off all of their inexpensive cars and trucks. Now Ford only has the Mustang. CARB/state/federal regulations are to blame.
Unique challenges to EV sales are range, charging at home, charging on the road, high insurance premiums, high cost to replace the whole battery pack (not modular), ability of car manufacturer to shutdown your car, low resale value, and few qualified mechanics and parts. These need to be addressed before I am interested in an EV.
Germany has a constitution that strict on how much debt its nation can incur each year!? Wow.
Remember, they don’t have to pay for their own national defense
They don't need to back Dollar Hegimony. Neither do they need a lot of military bases around the world.
@ritardstrength5169 up until this decade, it was generally thought it was best for them not to,
@@ritardstrength5169 You misinformation fukcs are a plague. Germany spends and is committed to continuing to spend on its defense above the NATO targets of 2% of total GDP. Given that, what is the purpose of your BS comment?
they still do shadow household tricks to scew it... its just there in theory, they dont really follow it... also for you to know, since germany said bye bye to russian energy there is a massive energy issue in germany which makes an EV swap or any form of energy intensive industry impossible
You missed the key reason Toyota has an EV. California mandate. If you are a US auto manufacturer, you must offer an EV to sell your brand in Cali. Most manufacturers HQ in California and the rest is simple. Also why Bz4x is such a dog.
compliance cars are still a thing. Go price out a 500e--nobody is buying these Fiats, the factory has to create an attractive lease deal to move the metal. All EV trucks and SUVs will be in the same boat.
Ev is slowing taking large market in asia. In South asia ev are increasing rapidly. Specially BYD. and Deepal.
Of course, government big brother cars.
No surprise when western car makers are pissing their pants and begging for mega tarrifs due to how terrifyingly cheap companies like BYD are selling cars for.
BYDs are burning like crazy in China…
@@antcantcook960 they’re also the ones actually serious about selling EVs to the masses and making it viable in a market not even the US and European EV makers would expect like South and Southeast Asia. Maybe the world needs more big brother companies and less big greed companies that hasn’t been pushing forward the mass adoption of EVs in the last 5 years.
@@alexanderchristopher6237 Companies that don't make a profit cannot invest in future products, you commie twit. That "greed" you talk about...
Rather than focus on a market where tariffs on EVs is 100%
Look at Australia
If your car goes down in value quickly, AND is more likely to be totalled even in a minor accident, you are going to be hit with bad negative equity.
Realistically depreciation (considering you can't mark it off on your taxes, thanks neoliberalism) and because unlike all other property transactions you're retaxed when you sell your car (thanks again neoliberalism) thinking of a car in any equity context is a bit of a peril if not completely delusional.
@@Furiends The peril lies in having a large loan balance that the insurance company's check only partially pays off due to heavy depreciation. Just like a strong extended warranty is a good idea for those buying cars with bad reliability, strong gap coverage is a wise thing to add to an EV's insurance policy, although it will make the vehicle even more expensive to insure.
@@carlgarrett5142 Tesla insurance on Model 3 almost the same as a comparable BMW 3 series with same purchase price and performance.
Tesla cars don´t have bad reliability, there are very few moving parts in the motors and transmission. 80% of Tesla owners replace their car with another Tesla, they have the highest brand loyalty and the Model Y is still the most popular car in the world.
@carlgarrett5142 All the more reason to lease an EV rather than buy.
We bought a hybrid in 2007. In 17 years we've had to replace the battery 1 time. We've gotten 270K miles, it still doesn't leak oil and the brakes last SO LONG. I expect another 270K miles with this car.
What kind of car did you buy?
I think a lot of people just want a safe, reliable, kinda boring, car that they can buy and then not worry about for the next decade or two besides basic maintenance.
Like, my idea vehicle right now would be a plug in hybrid compact crossover with a roof mount and towing kit in case I need to pull a SMALL trailer or carry some lumber home on the roof. No fancy 'self driving'. No always on connectivity. No 12 inch LCD screen hogging the dash. Just the basics.
My son owns a 2014 Toyota Prius and except for a starter battery has had a very good experience with it.
@@os2958 2007 Camry
@@covercalls88and the new Prius is IMO good looking and also has a nice 2.0 engine. Toyota did a great job with the model
Hybrids reduce gas consumption by 30% on average that maybe the way to go until electric vehicles issue get worked out.
i live bangkok, the worlds largest traffic jam, my hybrid saves 65% over my last gasoline car
I think hybrids are even better in pratice than EVs.
The issues were worked out a decade ago, Luddite.
@@speculawyer so the batteries are now easy to change and cheap? Is the cold issues solved? And is the electrical grid now able to produce enough power to recharge a significant amount of people with EV?
@@speculawyer btw are charging infrastructure already in place for more than a couple people using EV at a time?
If EV would be a good thing, why would you need incentives to raise the global rate of EV to 3% in 18 years?
We want an electric vehicle but not a 50k one, I want a 15k or 20k!!!
The model three is $30,000. It saves me about $2500 a year on fuel and maintenance. I leave it to you to do the math to see if that makes sense for you.
@@richardfolden3860Even cheaper if you buy second hand.
@@av_oid that is the way of things. I recently saw several 2018 model threes for over $25,000 on Tesla‘s website. It seemed odd to me that anybody would pay that much when they can get a new one for 30.
30000 tesla is non existent. Only with massive subsidies.
@@jellyd4889 it’s $33,900 with the federal which almost everybody gets. Seems like it does exist. Wait till you see the pricing that’s announced next month on the two seater.
A year ago a commenter on a forum here in Australia predicted that in ten years, you'd have to buy petrol by the can at hardware stores. I'm here laughing my ass off.
Fuel is extremely expansive in the UK and the price will continue to rise indefinitely.
Eventually it will be hard to find fuel for ICE cars, and the price of gasoline/diesel will rise as their production loses economies of scale, but I expect that will be in 2050, not in 2035. However, it will happen sooner in some places like Norway and China, and later in places like Africa and South America, where the charging infrastructure takes longer to build out.
@@specialkcitizen6263only because of fuel duty and vat. Only vat on electricity from EVSE and their prices are way above petrol or diesel if fuel duty removed from petrol and diesel.
@@amosbatto3051they said that about paraffin when paraffin heaters were being sold in lesser quantities. My local garage still sells it.
That's funny they thought that, incidentally, hardware stores were the first place you could purchase gasoline before stations came about
I build EVs for an ICE company. People hate the thought of EVs because they think they are going to be forced into one
Let me guess, all of people you know are MAGA Republicans?
They are being forced
@@guachingman much depends on this election.
@@guachingmanRightfully so. It is the best option energy wise. It is also cheaper. 😊
@@NicMediaDesign
Che..... WHAT?! CHEAPER?!
You must be living in a far away land.
20:31 They didn't even report her as stealing it. That's a pretty good upgrade for Hertz as their customer experience goes.
Wait a year...they will
I am waiting for the Department of Transportation to take their billions of dollars from taxpayers and contract for charging stations instead of their current plan of just burning stacks of taxpayer money in the furnace to generate electricity.
listen we can't burn coal anymore and we just had the old plants laying around, and they said if we didn't get rid of the money we wouldn't get as much next year. tell me, WWJD?
I love the driving experience of my two BEVs.
But if you cannot charge at home, EVs aren't for you. Even here in Norway, DC charging is often overwhelmed and also much, much, much more expensive than gasoline and power at home. I rarely pay on excess of 1NOK even in winter at home, 0.3 NOK in summer but at the DC charger it's 4.5 to 6.5 NOK.
The only thing I do not recognize is the cheap used EV market, I'm unable to find reasonably priced vehicles.
Yeah, but the charging station must be paid for in some way. When you are paying 4-6NOK/kW, you are paying for the fact that someone has built the station, and they want to get the investment return and a profit.
@@SuperAnatolli But why would that be of interest to you?
I also believe that petrol/gas stations operate with margins of 10%-20%, so I don't quite understand why the markup has to be 200%-500% for a DC fast charger, given that a charger is a fair bit simpler and needs less care than an underground storage and piping system.
In the US, used EVs are extremely cheap. 2 year old Teslas are often listed for $25,000 or less
@@areitu If this is for a single motor model 3, that isn't such a great price compared to a new one with tax credit.
Similar experience. We bought a new EV because the only used one we could find in our city was close to the price of a new one, so at that point why buy used?
Two issues:
* Lack of chargers
* THEY ARE EXPENSIVE
Yes, I do think that both issues will improve over time. Especially the expense when the charger situation is dealt with. Most trips are only a few miles a day, and the older EVs that did exist in the '80s could handle that just fine. And with the improved rate of charging in modern EVs, the chargers in rural areas mostly need to be close enough that you can skip one if it's broken. The big advantage that ICEs have is that you can more easily bring fuel to it if you have to. As much as it sucks having to walk for gas, it's at least a thing that can be done.
Yup I think those are the biggest.
For people with money who only use their car to commute to work every day and prefer to fly when traveling, EVs are the luxury option. Nice and quiet drive (or better music listening experience). Faster acceleration. No need to waste time going to gas stations since they charge at home.
I won’t be surprised if my next car is an EV.
also, they don't work in the cold. our Tesla charging stations in Canada are always empty
Charge at home - even a wall socket is enough to charge a car - and every house/condo has a wall socket you can use somehow.
@@PalisUK hence why the countries with the highest EV adoption rate are... in balmy Scandinavia?
The biggest problem is every time I fill my cars tank the range is the same as the day I bought it, now with an EV every time I charge its battery the range gets smaller. I have a 2 year old phone that the battery has degraded 20% already. Imagine that in a greater scale in something that is supposed to last longer than a phone.
Your phone doesn't have full battery management or a heat pump. Most EV's have both. Typical degradation in an EV is 2 to 3% per year, which tends to slow down once the car reaches around 4 years old.. You don't have a clue what you are talking about....
@@Brian-om2hh It's a terrible technology to run a car on though and should never have got off the ground. Consumers don't want it and car manufacturers don't want it; they're only doing it because of political pressure.
Ev batteries can not be compared with cheap phone batteries.
Batteries aren't the problem, the infrastructure often is. In countries that take progessive measures in making sure infrastructure roll out is done propperly ev's are doing fine.
Things like not needing a dozen apps for a dozen different charging companies and making sure people without driveways can also overnight charge.
And smaller ev's need to become more common as well.
And the price point too… Plus colder weather countries like Canada, the range will decay even quicker
@@Brian-om2hh And you do? Do you know the emissions produced when making an EV compared to an ICE? Its ridiculous, the amount you have to drive before your coveted EV gets back close to 0 effect on the environment is a joke
🤣🤣🤣 Showing a picture of the Hammerhead Eagle I-Thrust when talking about the cyber truck. That killed me!! 🤣
We went with PHEV Pacifica. The mileage varies due to weather n driving habits. Lower mileage in the winter and when on long trips. In general we are seeing +80 mpg now. My electric bill went up $20/month.
😝 Cybershack.
I thought it was meant to be flattering.
The cyber truck wishes it was that good, the hybrid system of the hammerhead was revolutionary 😂
@@fools_opinions Its close to the drivetrain for the new RamCharger. Full battery with ICE generator. Top Gear used a diesel, the Ram uses the V-6 Pentastar (same one on my PHEV Pacifica).
I dont think I can beat Patrick in a staring contest 😳
I hate the constant beeps and notifications in modern cars. Always warning you of something. I get why they're there, I just dislike constantly being warned of something I am perfectly capable of watching out for.
Sometimes it reminds me of the cockpit alarms in the air crash videos 😂
I hate it when it's not immediately obvious what it's complaining about.
Sell them cheaper and they will sell. That simple. Market dictates price.
Love the Cybertruck picture.
Hybrids are the future. Regenerative braking is great, and nit relying on gigantic battery packs is also great.
"Hybrids are the future." Hello 2012 Prius buyer. Unfortunately it's 2024. The problem with this thinking is that hybrids are nothing new and in a couple years there'll be another serious of scare articles about how everyone is racing to sell their hybrids for dirt cheap. Full EVs aren't the problem. Car manufactures making cars impossible to repair and hyper prone to failure making the entire car not work because one part fails is. So is the fact no manufacture is making a basic EV for $15K. Every car manufacture should be building out charging networks with both fast (trip) chargers and slow (overnight) chargers.
Most car companies and people think they need huge battery. That is what is driving a lot of the prices. In reality most people would do fine with a battery as small as 30kWh (Hyundai Ioniq first gen) if the charging would be available and cheap.
@@FuriendsHeavy cars begone.
Also I'm talking about fun cars, not a prius. A hybrid Suzuki Swift would be dope.
@@rkan2And charge every time you park? Nah
@@Furiends _"The problem with this thinking is that hybrids are nothing new and in a couple years there'll be another serious of scare articles about how everyone is racing to sell their hybrids for dirt cheap..."_ Ignorantly troll much? Hybrids and PHEVs have been around for ages are typically have fewer issues than a basic ICE car, and in a lot of ways, a PHEV will last just as long as a EV since the ICE drivetrain gets far less use. The Chevy Volt was one of the most reliable cars in that class from Chevrolet (250,000+ miles with no significant repairs commonly referenced by owners) Same for the Prius, extraordinary reliability (just ask one of the _many_ Prius taxi drivers)
How could the EV market be dead with a 31% market growth recorded in 1H 2024, hmm?
I expected more discussion on economic factors like interest rates and inflated cost of living, but got anecdotes and politics only.
Haha only us Brits will get the Arthur Daley reference and then if only nearly 50 or over.
@@ColonelKlinck 😀Terrence
@@patrickobrien2357 😂😂
Aussies get it too.
I get it and I’m 44
Brits and British TV watchers
Surely one of the biggest reasons that US consumers will not buy an EV is that fuel in the US is so very cheap, this is the same reason that they still buy vehicles with appalling fuel efficiency. Where is the incentive to change?
EVs/ transit etc can only be implemented via subsidies because carbon tax is deeply unpopular. People say they want green energy, but they would rather let the planet go than pay more at the pump. Unfortunately we can't find the money for so many subsidies, which is why even the Inflation Reduction Act bill weakened the EV incentives by requiring stricter labor and materials standards.
The only solution for EVs is bike lanes: broadly popular, cheap enough to build, and e bikes will be affordable even if there is a 300% tariff.
So makr fuel artificially expensive so that people have to buy expensive ev's or not drive at all
Green zealots
I'm more concerned about the fact there are no chargers where I live, subscription services to use the features I already bought, the throwaway nature of evs, the fact insurance companies are refusing to pay out in the event your car burns your house down, the fact you can't get out of your car if the battery dies, it doesn't charge or operate in winter conditions where I live, it's too expensive and finally there is no charging anywhere I might go.
Oil running dry in 25 to 30 years perhaps?
As an American, I’m not purchasing an EV because they’re prohibitively priced, poorly regulated, unreliable, generally poorly designed, are vulnerable to outside interference to a degree that ICE vehicle is not, and have no standardized infrastructure. Fuel costs don’t even enter into the consideration.
Its not dead. Its back to very strong growth in last quarter. Your video did not aged well and car makers with no competitive EVs are collapsing in front of us. Volkswagen, BMW, Toyota, Porsche and so on all have plummeting sales as they are losing with great chinese EVs.
lol ad I got before the video was for an EV
I got an advert for whatsapp. 😂
The EV hype train is pulling into station.
@copingcontinuous addblockers bro, adblockers
@@josedelapinio suggest one . The one I had does not work anymore.
@@ciprianpopa1503 Firefox as a browser. uBlock Origin w. Chrome.
I have an EV. I have a Chinese Segway scooter. $300 brand new for 300+ miles and counting. I imagine I'll get 1,000 miles before it gets crusty.
Hope you keep it outside for when the battery bursts into flames.
@@PrincessPattyPumpkin Yea thats a real thing. If you put that thing where you live, your insurance wont refund you if your place burns down. Theyll say it was an act of negligence.
@@Elemblue2 what percentage of them bursts into flames in people's homes?
@@NJ-wb1cz 11-13%
@@abhilashyadav2274 haha, so it's all a joke
As everyone now knows, an EV with a 'range' of 260 miles will only cover 130 miles in the winter. When an ICE car can do 400 miles in the winter and be refueled in a fraction of the time, battery tech will need to match this.
you can also have a jerrycan in the trunk in case of breakdown ... with an ev you need to be towed or someone needs to come with a generator. You pay a lot more for a much worse experience, features and resell value
What utter nonsense. Clearly, you have zero EV ownership experience. My Kia eNiro has around 230 miles of range. Even in Winter, I get 190 to 200....having a heat pump helps a lot.
@@Brian-om2hh i've owned an ID3 for 3 years and love it. Clearly i do ;)
As everyone knows most people don't drive 130 miles in a day so what's your point?
@@SteveGamesplayer some regularly travel that distance in a day, and many occasionally do. And that creates an inconvenience that ICE cars don't give you. So what's the incentive to switch? The ROI is non-existent if you don't have home charging and even if you do the higher price of an EV means a long ROI if you're a low mileage driver. ps I'm an EV owner.
where are the engineers. - they are not in the boardroom