Excellent. My Grandpa had a forge that was 103 inches long and 6 inches wide for repairing cutting blades on a rice harvester. When I learned to make Chisels and Drawknife’s gramps would insist there was a hollow in the back of the tool. He thought that hollow allowed for a better control due to less surface area contact between the tool and subject. My gramps never attended school but that guy was the smartest individual I know, he had a way to pump water up hill using the tide to create siphons. He used chicken dropping’s to make methane gas that fueled all of the farm equipment, generators, pumps and his illegal Alcohol production.
I have a couple draw knifes I've only used a couple time. To many power tools, they keep calling my name lol But I do love to look at them. Think I'll hang them in my living room with my kids pictures. Stay well! GOD Bless !!!
I loved this set of videos, they are great. I would suggest that when explaining how the two metals will form into the knife blade, maybe you could show it with two different colors of clay. Please keep up the extant and real videos that you make!
I appreciate your making this video it was very informative and I appreciate your doing it in the old way as I have few tools and there's something satisfying about knowing you can do it in a simple manner thanks again for making these videos.
I think I just saw two of the coolest tricks I've seen in years. Clamping the blade in the vise with the rods to take the kinks out and clamping the blade to the lumber to hold it in place for filing....gotta remember those ideas. Seems like I learn something new every video you make. Thanks many times over, John.
Hand file: poor man's milling machine 🤔👍 one trick I've learned to help keep it flat is to keep as much of the file on as much of the work piece as possible and not only criss cross direction of travel, but also criss cross the angle of the file, sometimes the file running the whole length of the work piece.
I really enjoyed watching you go through the entire heat treating process---with all of the particular, to this project, techniques that you used. You sure make it look easy John. I have six knives and three bending wrenches and several punches waiting for me to heat treat them. You are helping me "get my ducks all neatly in a row". Thanks again.
34:30 Another thing is the tool steel by that time is really thin, like a spring, and much bendier. Like you said, the mild steel could care less about bending. Another way of thinking of it is like an archery bow. Once the tough, brittle wood that gives it it's power is laminated to a more flexible wood, it doesn't crack as easy.
John, Ive had great results straightening laminated tools even when leaving them very hard, water drop tempered which is cooler than will show a color, and the amazing thing is how the soft iron backing permits quite serious movement of the glass hard tool steel without breaking! Japanese carpenters often "tap out" their blades with a small hammer and anvil by striking the bevel to push steel up into the edge from a hollowed out back. It goes against common thinking here, but it works amazingly well, and is just another good reason to try and always have laminated blades.
I really enjoy and appreciate your videos on traditional woodworking tools(along with all your other videos) I have always wanted to try my hand at coopering, and your videos always make me want to start on a set of tools and a lot of research.
Random interesting thing. When you had the quench tank on the forge and were heating up for the quench. Each time you turn on the blower you can see the resonant frequency of it in the surface of the water tank. Thought that was interesting. Another great set of videos that I will have to rewatch a few times to make sure I got everything. Thank you.
Had some luck with bending hardened steel if it is done right after the quench whilst it is still hot. Also read that putting cold water on the opposite side from where the bend was will pull it back straight. It was in M. T Richardson's book Practical blacksmithing. Good video thanks.
All my draw knives have bow down in the middle except for the flat one, which I have more trouble controlling. The "flat" one is curved within the flat plane or 90deg to the bow of my others. Guess I could have said blade is closer to me in the middle than at the handles if that makes sense. Didn't know if they were intentionally made that way or not but the curves are very consistent suggesting they are. Well done John as usual! don't forget them hinges
Another good one John Can’t believe how fussy that little drawknife could be. Tool steel is fussy I guess when ever I seem to work with tool steel I seem to crack it. Lol. I’m a little rough around the edges, still learning Thx again ...Paul..
Excellent video, I really enjoyed this. I'm eager to see how the straightening of the tempered drawknife goes. Having used a drawknife some I agree with your comments that having one that isn't perfectly flat gives the user more flexibility. I'm eager to see what you produce for handles and how you attach them.
Another awesome video as always. How come you don't quench in oil? Ive rarely seen water used much. The tempering process was very fasinating and education. Thanks for teaching us with your videos. You rock!!!
This is a water hardening steel. Your quench needs to be the right medium for the steel selected. But i did chose water hardening because it is easier to find a long container to put water into than it is to get the drawknife into the oil quench I typically use.
John awesome video as usual but I was always taught that proper tempering colors for a knife was a dark straw color and purple was for cold chisels and other metal working tools
I think there is no one size fits all approach. The choice of steel makes a difference since they don't all temper the same. The final use of the item is an Important factor. Larger tools that can be abused more are more likely to fail if left to hard or perhaps a tool needs more flex and less rigidity. For simple tools like this I would prefer a tool that is quick and easy to sharpen even though it might require sharpening a bit more often. I have found that many people will put off sharpening a tool that is hard to sharpen because it is to much work to touch up the edge. So there is a huge range of personal preference.
Black Bear Forge I see your point on the sharpening but to me the longer it stays sharp the better I usually take a few times a year that I sharpen all my blades at once, of course there’s always a couple that need it more often than that
Thanks John for the great video. I also prefer to file over grinding for control. Grinding is fine for more material removal, but then I don't have a belt sander yet. I have a question. Is there a practical purposes for a hollow grind? I've seen them often, never done one mostly because I don't know why it's done.
Hollow grinding is mostly used to aid in sharpening. The hollow means there is less material right behind the edge so you only have the small amount near the edge top deal with. Bu the hollow grind can also make for a weaker edge.
When you are filing the edges. I noticed you filed back and forth with the file. Is that a double cut file? If not you where smashing down the teeth of the file, by drawing back in the pull direction. Files are designed to cut in the push direction, not in the pull direction. Unless it is a double cut file.
Ah, not quite: Sandpaper has edges in both directions (positive and negative cutting angles), so you are cutting and scraping at the same time -> that's grinding. Draw-Filing is still filing, which is cutting (positive cutting angle). Doesn't matter, but if you do want to be accurate all the way. It shows where I am from...
I think you may have misunderstood what I was trying to say. My point was that wrapping a piece of sandpaper around a piece of wood and working lengthwise would be an option for finishing.
It doesn't stay hot long enough to fully temper the drawknife which is much lighter than the anvil. So there is no way it will ever heat the anvil up enough to alter the temper of the face.
I like the reality of how nothing comes off perfect. Low stress, fix it as necessary.
I sometimes use a heat gun for tempering.
Excellent. My Grandpa had a forge that was 103 inches long and 6 inches wide for repairing cutting blades on a rice harvester. When I learned to make Chisels and Drawknife’s gramps would insist there was a hollow in the back of the tool. He thought that hollow allowed for a better control due to less surface area contact between the tool and subject. My gramps never attended school but that guy was the smartest individual I know, he had a way to pump water up hill using the tide to create siphons. He used chicken dropping’s to make methane gas that fueled all of the farm equipment, generators, pumps and his illegal Alcohol production.
I have a couple draw knifes I've only used a couple time. To many power tools, they keep calling my name lol
But I do love to look at them. Think I'll hang them in my living room with my kids pictures.
Stay well! GOD Bless !!!
What I like about your videos is, you explain them them well enough for even us "slow" guys to understand!
Thanks
John, great video! I love your easy teaching style. You show all aspects of your work, that is great. Thank you.
I am glad you are enjoying the videos
You make really good videos. Thank you!
I loved this set of videos, they are great.
I would suggest that when explaining how the two metals will form into the knife blade, maybe you could show it with two different colors of clay.
Please keep up the extant and real videos that you make!
Thanks for sharing this video; very good learning 👍
I appreciate your making this video it was very informative and I appreciate your doing it in the old way as I have few tools and there's something satisfying about knowing you can do it in a simple manner thanks again for making these videos.
I thought I knew a lot but this one gets watched a few more times. Thanks my friend. Great show.
I think I just saw two of the coolest tricks I've seen in years. Clamping the blade in the vise with the rods to take the kinks out and clamping the blade to the lumber to hold it in place for filing....gotta remember those ideas. Seems like I learn something new every video you make. Thanks many times over, John.
I am glad they help. Niether idea is mine, just things i have seen done elsewhere.
Hand file: poor man's milling machine 🤔👍 one trick I've learned to help keep it flat is to keep as much of the file on as much of the work piece as possible and not only criss cross direction of travel, but also criss cross the angle of the file, sometimes the file running the whole length of the work piece.
I like the blue flame in forge.
Thank you.
This is the way that I was taught to temper a tool. Never knew the temps, just the colors.
I really enjoyed watching you go through the entire heat treating process---with all of the particular, to this project, techniques that you used. You sure make it look easy John. I have six knives and three bending wrenches and several punches waiting for me to heat treat them. You are helping me "get my ducks all neatly in a row". Thanks again.
I am glad it helps.
Brilliant, using the block of steel to heat treat the blade!
Its an old technique
34:30 Another thing is the tool steel by that time is really thin, like a spring, and much bendier. Like you said, the mild steel could care less about bending. Another way of thinking of it is like an archery bow. Once the tough, brittle wood that gives it it's power is laminated to a more flexible wood, it doesn't crack as easy.
👍on the vice trick
Thanks John! With all the knives I've made I have not attempted a draw knide yet. I will now. It's time.
John, Ive had great results straightening laminated tools even when leaving them very hard, water drop tempered which is cooler than will show a color, and the amazing thing is how the soft iron backing permits quite serious movement of the glass hard tool steel without breaking! Japanese carpenters often "tap out" their blades with a small hammer and anvil by striking the bevel to push steel up into the edge from a hollowed out back. It goes against common thinking here, but it works amazingly well, and is just another good reason to try and always have laminated blades.
Very nice and so interesting.
Really enjoyed this video...Keep up the good work...Liked how you explained the process....
I really enjoy and appreciate your videos on traditional woodworking tools(along with all your other videos)
I have always wanted to try my hand at coopering, and your videos always make me want to start on a set of tools and a lot of research.
Random interesting thing. When you had the quench tank on the forge and were heating up for the quench. Each time you turn on the blower you can see the resonant frequency of it in the surface of the water tank. Thought that was interesting. Another great set of videos that I will have to rewatch a few times to make sure I got everything. Thank you.
Had some luck with bending hardened steel if it is done right after the quench whilst it is still hot. Also read that putting cold water on the opposite side from where the bend was will pull it back straight. It was in M. T Richardson's book Practical blacksmithing. Good video thanks.
I haven't had great luck with straightening. If I was a knife maker I would probably experiment more with various methods.
Totally awesome Black Bear Forge! Thank you for teaching!
All my draw knives have bow down in the middle except for the flat one, which I have more trouble controlling. The "flat" one is curved within the flat plane or 90deg to the bow of my others. Guess I could have said blade is closer to me in the middle than at the handles if that makes sense. Didn't know if they were intentionally made that way or not but the curves are very consistent suggesting they are. Well done John as usual! don't forget them hinges
Nice demo, John.
Another good one John Can’t believe how fussy that little drawknife could be. Tool steel is fussy I guess when ever I seem to work with tool steel I seem to crack it. Lol. I’m a little rough around the edges, still learning Thx again ...Paul..
Cracking is easy to do
Love this ! Tempering is by far my least expertise... more more and more !!!! 😂
Excellent video, I really enjoyed this. I'm eager to see how the straightening of the tempered drawknife goes. Having used a drawknife some I agree with your comments that having one that isn't perfectly flat gives the user more flexibility. I'm eager to see what you produce for handles and how you attach them.
l was out in my shop today working on forging a drawknife, -- re-watching this excellent video series.
John, for something bigger to quench in get yourself one of the big heavy aluminum pans they sell for turkey's at Walmart.
What type of steel is a tie rod 1+1/8" thick, probably off a one ton duelley or maybe a semi truck likely to be?
What is the title of the book you were referencing for tempering color and Rockwell hardness?
Another awesome video as always. How come you don't quench in oil? Ive rarely seen water used much. The tempering process was very fasinating and education. Thanks for teaching us with your videos. You rock!!!
This is a water hardening steel. Your quench needs to be the right medium for the steel selected. But i did chose water hardening because it is easier to find a long container to put water into than it is to get the drawknife into the oil quench I typically use.
Thanks for the reply and sharing of your knowledge.
John awesome video as usual but I was always taught that proper tempering colors for a knife was a dark straw color and purple was for cold chisels and other metal working tools
I think there is no one size fits all approach. The choice of steel makes a difference since they don't all temper the same. The final use of the item is an Important factor. Larger tools that can be abused more are more likely to fail if left to hard or perhaps a tool needs more flex and less rigidity. For simple tools like this I would prefer a tool that is quick and easy to sharpen even though it might require sharpening a bit more often. I have found that many people will put off sharpening a tool that is hard to sharpen because it is to much work to touch up the edge. So there is a huge range of personal preference.
Black Bear Forge I see your point on the sharpening but to me the longer it stays sharp the better I usually take a few times a year that I sharpen all my blades at once, of course there’s always a couple that need it more often than that
Thanks John for the great video. I also prefer to file over grinding for control. Grinding is fine for more material removal, but then I don't have a belt sander yet. I have a question. Is there a practical purposes for a hollow grind? I've seen them often, never done one mostly because I don't know why it's done.
Hollow grinding is mostly used to aid in sharpening. The hollow means there is less material right behind the edge so you only have the small amount near the edge top deal with. Bu the hollow grind can also make for a weaker edge.
I really enjoy your channel! Where do you buy your files?
I buy old stock files when I can find them. For new files I usually buy from McMaster Carr
When you are filing the edges. I noticed you filed back and forth with the file. Is that a double cut file? If not you where smashing down the teeth of the file, by drawing back in the pull direction. Files are designed to cut in the push direction, not in the pull direction. Unless it is a double cut file.
While i do keep the file in contact with the work, I only apply pressure on the push stroke
Ah, not quite: Sandpaper has edges in both directions (positive and negative cutting angles), so you are cutting and scraping at the same time -> that's grinding. Draw-Filing is still filing, which is cutting (positive cutting angle). Doesn't matter, but if you do want to be accurate all the way. It shows where I am from...
I think you may have misunderstood what I was trying to say. My point was that wrapping a piece of sandpaper around a piece of wood and working lengthwise would be an option for finishing.
What file are you using?
What temperature did you set your oven at? And how long was it in there?
it depends on the desired hardness. In this case 450 for an hour.
i had to do straightening for 8 months to within .002”. nightmare
Does setting that hot piece on your anvil for such a long time have any detrimental effect on the face?
It doesn't stay hot long enough to fully temper the drawknife which is much lighter than the anvil. So there is no way it will ever heat the anvil up enough to alter the temper of the face.
Do you have recommendations on good files?
The quality for files has gone way down. I don't have any good recommendations at the moment.
Just stick the knife in with the casserole
How about selling me that drawknife?