Hollywood Has A Race Problem And Always Has - RANT
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 27 ส.ค. 2024
- It's no secret that Hollywood has had a problem with race in films over the years. White people often got parts that should have gone to actors of color. This has changed over the years with some upset that now things have been overcorrected or gotten out of control on the other end. Black actors are now replacing white ones in iconic roles. My thoughts on this are far more nuanced and I can see where both sides are coming from on the issue. I give my full thoughts and hope you join me in the comments!
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Narrated by: Adam Olinger
Edited by: Adam Olinger
Write a great story first, then worry about diversity later 🤷🏻♂️
This. I was about to say, they don't have a race problem, they have a writing problem. Palette swapping doesn't, and shouldn't, equal higher box office numbers. How about you get some black friends and learn how to write black characters and then write a movie with a black lead?
You're not getting it. Adam has said writing sucks a million times in previous videos. He is just discussing this specific one now because when you have a film with great writing, then diversity matters next according to you, right?
As a member of a minority, I find it insulting that studios would rather race swap than come up with a new story that features minorities.
Yeah, when John Wayne played Khan, was annoying.
The main problem with diversity casting, rather than ability casting, is that it saddles those actors with derivative, shitty, subpar, poorly conceived, poorly written and poorly directed IP that can't be built upon by the talent because the end product is bad. Marvel loves inexperienced directors that they can manipulate and force to include the "message" in. There is no She-Hulk season 2, no the 355 sequeal or the "new" Little Mermaid or all-female Ghostbusters, etc. Captain Marvel and Ms. Marvel are top notch pieces of Mary Sue feminist writing. They only care about the representation and not the story, plot, or character development and criticize the fans when they predictably do poorly.
@giornogiovanni5655 Well, as stated its been going on since the 30s. You're only bringing up modern examples for some reason.
@@DIDI.TITI777 agreed more movies with other humans.
exactly this
I agree. And when people say 'it should be about who's the best actor, not the color' they don't realize that if that were the case, a lot of heavier women would be taking roles from these stereotypically "hot" actresses. It's never been about who's the best actor.
Hollywood has a making good movie problems. I don't care what the actors/actress race or sexuality is, I just want to see good movies again damnit!!!
It’s not gonna happen
@ninjanibba4259 Yes unfortunately I believe that 100% but we can hope
Great movies are made all the time. It’s a complete nonissue.
So … what if a white person played black panther … what would you say
I saw at least 10 movies that were 4 out of 5 or higher this year. Great movies are constantly being made.
It’s like when JK Rowling stated that Dumbledore was gay. I was like okay but did we really need that in the story. Was Dumbledore telling all his students that he was gay. No he was a wise dude who wanted to help his students and defeat Voldemort. Not all of the characters in the story need to have love interests. 😂
Wow, I had no idea Alicia Nash was a Latina. I'm glad you said Latina and not Latinx. As a Latina, I hate that word.
Bane being played by Tom Hardy in The Dark Knight Rises is another example of Hollywood whitewashing. Bane in the comic books is Latino.
@@DaRunningManAnd Bruce Wayne is American, while Christian Bale is British.
@@KJM1984 Bruce Wayne is white. Christian Bale is white. Bane is not white but Tom Hardy is. That's why your analogy doesn't work.
@DaRunningMan I always assumed Bane was white. Thanks for telling me.
@@DarkPhoenixSagaYou're welcome. :-)
it's just pandering, not representation. and I hate seeing it and being lectured by studios and media people telling me how I should be glad they're doing this for us.no one in the viewing public likes it, and it's done for reactions and attention.
I'll probably get some flak for this, but I thought Top Gun: Maverick did a pretty decent job diversifying its cast in an organic way to reflect the current reality without veering from the history established in the first film. It was a seamless updating and it made the film more interesting for it.
Key point is that they do not draw attention to it. They just happen to have a variety of characters of different origins and that is that. The story was the key point.
The most calmest and genuine approach to this movie making issue. Let's get this man a TH-cam plaque on his wall.
Regarding Ariel, I just think it's silly to have any issues with it - people on the one hand say "well the original character's white, so if you're gonna make her black, then her blackness should at least be part of the story." But on the other hand, the whole point is that her race doesn't matter regardless because her "whiteness" never had any importance in the original story either! So who gives a fuck?? It might be slightly annoying to see something needlessly changed about a character, but that sort of shit happens all the time in most adaptations (not in terms of race, necessarily, but in terms of various other random changes - look at how the character of Batman has changed over the years, for example. Would you rather he just be the same original, normal detective dude that he began as? Of course not. He's now gradually changed into a rich dude with tons of gadgets and a fuckin Batmobile and Batarangs, who loves being around bats, who kills people constantly, etc.).
If that's your biggest problem with it (that it's just different than what you're used to), then I think I would err on the side of caution and just appreciate the fact that they're trying to take a classic character and make her more relatable to young black girls, who, due to our history of systemic racism (especially in Hollywood, and even in fairy tales generally), have a very limited pool of black characters to identify with. I think that's more important than just being slightly annoyed because one aspect of the story (well, not really the story, just the visuals) is different now - and was arbitrary to begin with. If her race was arbitrary to begin with, I don't understand why anyone's saying it should have some significance now that she's black. That doesn't make any sense.
what really annoyed me is that they made Tinker Bell black but didn’t give her blonde hair black girls look great with blonde hair I mean look at Beyoncé. I don’t mind changing a character, but don’t change the traits.
Really good video. You respectfully got your point across that Hollywood has been overcorrecting without whining about diversity. You understand the need for diversity and the history of exclusion. Thanks for doing this.
The MCU Nick Fury wasn't based on the classic Marvel white Nick Fury. He was based on the 21st century "Ultimate Marvel" version of Nick Fury, who was drawn to look like...Samuel L. Jackson.
with his approval...anticipated that he would play him in a movie(s) in the future
I value your nuanced viewpoint here. Many who criticize the casting of nonwhite actors in traditionally white roles often fail to grasp the historical inequities at play and mistakenly frame it as a form of injustice against white individuals. So I thank you for highlighting the longstanding struggles endured by nonwhite actors in Hollywood. I've seen some people in this comment section falsely claim that Scarlett Johansson in Ghost in the Shell wasn't an issue. Well, they are entirely wrong, and I am going to prove it in this post, but before I do, I wanted to mention some other whitewash castings in the past to go along with the list that you brought up here:
Bane (Latino) in "The Dark Knight Rises" whitewashed to Tom Hardy.
Khan (South Asian) in "Star Trek into Darkness" whitewashed to Benderdich Cumberbach
Tiger Lily (Native American) in "Pan" whitewashed to Rooney Mara
Keiji Kiriya (Japanese) in "Edge of Tomorrow" whitewashed as Tom Cruise
Eben Oleson (Inuit) in "30 Days of Night" whitewashed as Josh Hartnett
You also mentioned the movie "21" where the real life Asian American Jeffery Ma was whitewashed by having British actor Jim Sturgess play him. To go along with another movie based on a real life nonwhite person being played by a white actor, there is "Argo" where Ben Affleck played the real life Latino American Antonio Mendez. Interestingly enough, both Argo and The Dark Knight Rises came out the same year. That's two great main movie roles for Latinos actors that were taken away in the same year.
So it is clear that Hollywood has persistently discriminated against nonwhite actors, limiting them to less rewarding roles while denying them the chance to showcase their talent, roles that were frequently given to white actors instead. This practice was fundamentally unfair, and I commend you for addressing this issue in your video.
I also understand that while it's great to see Hollywood trying to right those wrongs, there is a bit of over-correction happening that is rubbing people the wrong way. I think there are better ways to right those wrongs, but as long as it doesn't return to the old Hollywood ways of discriminating against nonwhite actors from playing great nonwhite roles.
Now on to Ghost in the Shell. I already directly responded to those couple of comments falsely claiming that Scarlett Johansson in Ghost in the Shell wasn't an issue in their threads, but I also want to make a separate post about it here in my own thread. In all forms of Ghost in the Shell, from the original comics to the animated series, the main character, Kusanagi Motoko, is undeniably Japanese. There's no prior Ghost in the Shell content that even remotely suggests otherwise. Just look at her name - Kusanagi Motoko - it speaks volumes. If she was meant to be white, why give her such a distinctly Japanese name? Additionally, the Hollywood adaptation created a whole new name for her character: "Mira Killian." This name was never part of any Ghost in the Shell material before the Hollywood movie. It was made up to justify casting a white actress in a role that was originally nonwhite. A whitewash.
Any white character in Ghost in the Shell is very clearly stated as such. For example, in the first animated adaptation of Ghose in the Shell, there is a scene where Kusanagi along with the characters Batou and Togusa are all in an elevator together after having walked past two men. Togusa asks Kusanagi who were those two men that they just saw. Kusanagi casually replies that one is from another Japanese government division. Then she points out the other guy to Togusa saying, "I've never seen that tall white man before." That's in the Japanese dialog. It got changed in the English dub. That tells you right there that all three of the characters in that elevator are Japanese because Kusanagi singled out one character in her description of him to Togusa as a "white man" since that is his most distinguishing feature compared to the three of them. This also means that the Danish guy playing Batou in the Hollywood Ghost in the Shell movie had no business playing him either because Batou is Japanese as well.
Some folks might try to mention Oshii Mamoru, the director of the first animated adaptation, to support the Hollywood Ghost in the Shell movie. Let's get this straight - Oshii Mamoru isn't the creator of Ghost in the Shell. The creator is Shirow Masamune, who penned and illustrated the original comic books. What's intriguing is that Shirow has stayed silent about the Hollywood adaptation, a big departure of his usual practice of commenting on and directly engaging with adaptations of his work. This silence of his on the Hollywood version of his creation speaks volumes.
In any case, Oshii really said some wacky stuff defending that Hollywood flick. It's hilarious, Adam, how you mentioned John Wayne playing Ganghis Kahn as a prime example of Hollywood's odd casting choices because Oshii Mamoru actually used that exact comparison to justify Scarlett Johansson as Kusanagi Motoko in Ghost in the Shell! This not only shows how out of touch Oshii is, but also underscores that Kusanagi isn't meant to be white. I mean, why compare Scarlett Johansson playing Kusanagi Motoko to John Wayne playing Genghis Khan if Kusanagi was supposed to be white? He could've just said she's white outright, but he didn't because Kusanagi isn't. He should know better, too, especially since his very own movie includes the elevator scene I just described above. Oshii stooped low to defend the Hollywood version, maybe hoping for a directing gig if it did well at the box office. It's all about favors in the movie industry at the end of the day, even if it means disregarding ethics and disadvantaging nonwhite actors.
Anyway, I enjoyed watching the video, Adam! Thank you for posting it!
I pretty much agree. The thing is, to me when a studio casts a diverse actor just to pander, the appropriate response is an eye roll. When incels and their leaders go nuclear over it, that's a big overreaction. It indicates that those people really are racist.
They just have an inclusion problem. They say they want it, but their actions say differently. As an autistic person, i had to wait till i was in college to see accurate representation of myself.
Not that I care to defend the film as I much prefer the original anime, but the whole controversy around Scarlett Johannson playing the Major in Ghost in the Shell was always ridiculous, the cyborg body (shell) was always described as Caucasian. The original director called it a non-issue and no one except western liberals cared at all.
Everything you just said is utterly wrong. Kusanagi is NEVER described as being white. Quite the opposite. In fact, the first animated adaptation of the comic book, if you had bothered to watch it, and you I know you didn't, literally has a scene where Kusanagi, Batou and Togusa are all in an elevator together after having walked past two men. Togusa asks Kusanagi who were those two men that they just saw. Kusanagi answers that one of them is a part of another division in the Japanese government. To the second man, she tells Togusa: "I've never seen that tall white man before." That's in the Japanese dialog. It got changed in the English dub.
"The original director called it a non-issue and no one except western liberals cared at all."
Let's make it clear that the "original director" is Oshii Mamoru who is NOT the creator of Ghost in the Shell and didn't even write the movie he directed. The creator of Ghost in the Shell is Shirow Masamune, who wrote and drew the original comic book, and he has never publicly commented on the Hollywood movie despite the fact that he had done so previously on every adaptation of his work, even producing some. He did no such thing with the Hollywood Ghost in the Shell movie. Interesting.
Second, if you had bothered to read the article in which Oshii Mamoru made those silly remarks, you'd find he defended Johannson's casting by likening it to John Wayne playing Ghengis Kahn. Yes, you read that right. This not only highlights his disconnect but also emphasizes that Kusanagi is not portrayed as white. After all, why compare her casting to John Wayne as Ghengis Kahn if she were meant to be white? He would've just flat out stated that the character is white, but he didn't because she is not white. He should know that, since the movie he directed literally has the scene I just described above.
Third, the very movie you are defended calls Johannson's character "Mira Killian." This name has never existed in any Ghost in the Shell media before that movie. Why, if the character was white as you claim, did they have to invent a European name for her? Because the character is not white. In fact, no one in the main cast of Ghost in the Shell is anything other than Japanese, so anyone non-Asian in the main cast of Ghost in the Shell was a problem. That includes that Danish actor who played Batou.
Don't ever speak about an issue you know nothing about. You will never come out looking good from it.
Japanese people don't care about that, it's always white people wanting to be offended for others
@@danielrubinstein896 They don't have these massive hangups with the characters they draw, it's pure passions, which is why they have such a worldwide appeal. Manga has been dominating comics exactly because of the attitudes of people like this guy, but they can't see how their worldview is limited.
@@DaRunningMan Spot a nerd a mile away when they just copy and paste their over long reply over and over again.
@@whrecordings Interesting how you replied to a comment by a "@danielrubinstein896" whose comment we can't see instead of my comment which everyone can see and effectively refuted your inaccurate statements.
I don't care about race at all, I just want good movies. Hollywood needs to do better, get out of the house, touch grass and get in touch with actual people. I grew up in the 90's, maybe I'm just ignorant. lol
Hollywood needs to do nothing. There are amazing independent movies being made, people just need to stop caring about silly comic book garbage or at least stop being outraged because their adaption of a drawn in coloring book didn't live up to their expectations.
So you think if they interacted with more 'natural' citizens they'd discover diversity in cinema isn't necessary or important?
I think they would discover diversity already existed prior to 2016 and that the majority of fans want good movies and a small fraction of people care about representation which is why many of these movies are bombing these days that make diversity a priority and focus. Twitter folks aren’t the majority of fans.
For example most Women didn’t even show up for the marvels. She Hulk is considered the worst MCU show. Ms. Marvel was the least watch show. Eternals was poorly received. The majority of women don’t buy comics. The audience they are pandering to don’t show up. Look at madame web also. Hollywood is out of touch big time. Women aren’t the issue. Black widow was loved by the majority of fans, so was nebula, gamora, and Wanda. The writing was good. The writing today focuses too much on social issues and politics, which divides fans. It creates this left vs the right nonsense. Now every time a movie fails they blame men and call people sexist and racist.
@@delugesofgrandeurThis is the same attitude many in Hollywood have and the reason they are losing money. Attacking fans is not a good strategy. fans are allowed to like comic book movies and express their criticisms when they are poorly made. This be quiet and enjoy for what it is attitude is why they are going downhill.
I agree with this wholeheartedly. Yes, there are plenty of times that Hollywood has discriminated against and whitewashed a character and it's so freaking dumb because they want a famous person to play a role someone else should play. Race-swapping for me has always irritated me when they make a bit stink about it. I love how they did Nick Fury, it's subtle and makes sense. There are plenty of universes, it also works for TMNT as we know there are different universes of turtles.
Disney has had a major problem with the race-swapping. Yes, we need more diverse princesses but not race-swapping the older ones. While I feel that you don't need to love or relate to a character that looks like you, for example, my favorite Disney princess is Jasmine, we do need more diverse princesses but they need their own original story. My cousin, who is four, loves the original Ariel but she doesn't like the live-action version at all, and she looks more like Halle than the original version. This shows that many kids are aware of what Disney is doing and they don't like it. They enjoy the older movies and it doesn't have to be new and shiny for it to be fun.
Good writing and a good story should ALWAYS come first when making a movie or show. Character matters, if you write a character that is supposed to be male and white then cast a white male actor in the role but if the race doesn't matter, they just need to have certain qualities, like singing well then that's good too. Hamilton is a great example of this. We know that the majority of the characters they are playing are white but in the musical, they aren't because, for them, race didn't matter, it's the singing that did and you see that talent.
I watched a short that greatly showed what I feel should be done. "You should have respect for the source material." This is something that Disney does not have anymore. Nor most of Hollywood, and it shows.
Well said!
I've never liked the idea of making black versions of originally white characters (Miles Morales, Riri Williams, etc). It's just sloppy seconds and I don't understand why so many people eat it up. If you want minority characters, just make *original* minority characters, not race or sex swap them.
Miles isn't some black Peter Parker". He's his own character.
One of my biggest gripes is how it seems almost every red haired character seems to be changed to black to fit diversity. It's so cliche and lazy at this point, not to mention disrespectful to gingers to have them be the choice characters to flip.
Dude. Exactly.
People keep forgetting Banshee from X-Men First Class was played by Caleb Landry Jones (who's a redhead in real life) and Norman Osborne /Green Goblin was played by Willem Dafoe who's a ginger.
@@wisconsinking323🙄
Agreed. I heard they were thinking of casting Michael B. Jordan as Hercules. I like Michael B., but why?
@@KJM1984 Uh... What?
The main problem is that they are flipping stablished characters just to pander and check boxes. If they really care about representation, they would create new characters that are based on being female, black, etc. But they're lazy and wouldn't want to make that kind of risk.
What established characters?
@@kingkoldSnow White for one.
Is it not just the other side of racism? Deleting a white character for a black character. They could have wrote an original story for the black character and included the original white character in that story - that is inclusion
So unfair to white people. God I hate people complaining about reverse racism. I'm sorry you've been hurt and oppressed by the movie industry with decisions like this.
Can't wait to see the comments section on this one. Lol.
Scroll down and/or up.
Hollywood thinks that the more "diverse" they make a movie, the better it'll be. But I tell you what, it's most often a disguise and distracts from the bad writing a movie has.
What is it disguising? At this point the shit is a meme and one wonders how many failed attempts it will take until Disney does an Uno Reverso and has Louis CK in a leading role.
Do you really think that? It gets people talking. I don't think you understand what marketing has manifested into with this now polarized world we live in.
@@delugesofgrandeur Haha, a very poor disguise, to be sure. Yet it keeps happening, so someone over there must think it's still working.
@@bryandavismoviefan It does get people talking. And it gets the stars talking. And the second any normal person hears Rachel Ziegler talk about Snow White in an interview, they're not gonna wanna see that damn movie haha. The second she opened her mouth, and that photo of the dwarves got released as well, Disney took that movie back to basically redo it from scratch, the blowback was so bad.
Great vid! You’re a lot ballsier than I gave you credit when I first saw you two years ago!
Good video Adam,... You on a roll. I always say, as long as lead character is cool & fun ill usually enjoy them. Black male here
HI Adam, just want to say you've become one of my favorite movie reviewers as of late. I'm subscribed to Stuckmann, Critical drinker and a few others but as seen from their views on Madam Webb and ethnic representation, their takes are almost always extremely skewed to one side of the political aisle, either diversity is good or bad unqualified. I find your take the most sensible and rather refreshing that you don't have to placate to any one side. Perks of being a (relatively) small channel i guess.
There´s a lack of balance, thats the problem and it ain´t just casting, the writing of white males has become a bit cringe and dumb.
Lol
@@kingkold i love dumb people who want to say something but aren´t really smart enough to say anything valuable so they go with emojis or just lazy lols.
@darthplagueis8886 Wow, I'm glad my simple , "lol" could trigger your feelings, bro.
@@kingkoldThere's no need to be this angry little buddy.
@@kingkoldit really didn´t, it´s just sad that we can´t no longer have a proper conversation beacuse of people like you, instead of telling me why you disagree you just behave like a child.
i'm Asian, why do i need to be "REPRESENTED"??? why? can you tell me why?
those actors don't look like me, don't act like me, don't think like me... why hollywood tells me they represent me??? just because we are same race????
You seem aggressive. I think having white people play the part of historical Asian characters seems a bit silly. It’s not that deep.
Representation is a legitimate course correction from active exclusion. If everyone can see themselves in the story of a straight, white male, then everyone can also see themselves in a non-straight, non-white non-male.
@@AdamDoesMoviesThe thing is there is no shortage of Asian movies. Japanese movies, Hong Kong flicks, Korean movies and so on. So it's not like Asian people have to rely on Hollywood to swoop in and grace them with some representation. Based on people that I know, be it Vietnamese or Indian or whatever, Asians would typically rather watch actual Asian movies than the Hollywood crap with "representation" shoved in.
@@AdamDoesMoviesthe problem is, my friends, my family, my comunity don't care and don't want to be represented by hollywood elitist. if hollywood wants to hire white guy to play asian characters, it doesn't matter... because it does not do anything for me, my community or anyone at all
@@KreatedbyKrauseBUT WHY??? why do i need to see myself in the story??? i never see myself even for movies with Asian lead...
i can learn and empathize from character that does not represent me... those who must "SEE THEMSELVES" in everything, they are narcissist.
Here's something the young generation should learn, sometimes thing is NOT about you, and IT'S OKAY!
You forgot Gerard Buttler as Attila
or Gerard Butler as Set
or Gerard Butler a MLK lol
They literally HAVE to do this or they don't get funding, Oscar nominations etc. I forget the name of the Hollywood organization but they put this out last year, what movies/shows have to in order to get greenlit. It goes deeper than pandering.
I think the main issue is that Hollywood forces diversity in front of the camera in order to hide the lack of diversity behind the scenes. It comes across as pandering as many executives remain ignorant of what diverse audiences actually want. Race swapping a character is an easy way to create buzz for a movie that is otherwise totally lacking in originality. Hollywood banks on buzz and even customer blowback to drive interest. I don't fault minority actors for accepting a paycheck for another lazy reboot, however I do place a lot of responsibility on Hollywood creatives themselves for failing to deliver good storytelling.
Craziest one is Cloud Atlas
White Guy turned Asian
Black Girl turned White
Asian Girl turned Ginger
Was it a book or comic?
I would give Cloud Atlas a pass, as that was the point of the novel and film - people playing multiple roles, regardless of race.
The Blackening was an awful film!
Yeah. I bought that, because some of the actors were kind of funny, particularly in short youtube skits. But the movie didn't seem to know what tone it wanted to be, and it just wasn't funny. I was expecting something like Black Dynamite, which was awesome.
@@Bastiondarcry
@@art23428 ?
I've been waiting for someone to have the guts to have this discussion. The thing that bothers me is Hollywood keeps putting these black actors in thankless roles that are begging to cause controversy and then proactively announcing that there are going to be racist people coming after them (which sure enough they do) but there are plenty of people who are just confused. Take Moses Ingram. she was GREAT in the queens gambit and then gets a part in Obi Wan as some random quasi Darth Vader protégé inquisitor lady who is HORRIBLE written and admittedly badly acted by Moses. But the character sticks out like a sore thumb because she is standing in between a conflict between Obi Wan and Darth Vader. So now there is this distracting, shoehorned in character who happens to also be a minority which naturally makes some people feel like it was Disney forcing a minority into a show.
What I think Hollywood needs to do is work hard to find talented minority filmmakers to go tell their own stories. Jordan Peele is a terrific example. He is very talented and makes the movies he wants. Its annoying that Hollywood makes these cash grab crappy remakes, rehashed reboot trash AND throws minorities to the wolves while virtue signaling. It is because they want to cash in on the I.P while checking boxes and believing they are doing moral good by casting minorities when actually they are doing more harm than good. Maybe we just don't soullessly remake beloved classics? How about that? Maybe we either don't do a remake at all or we write new songs *gasp* create new characters??? develop interesting stories and ideas????
And my last point about race swapping: some people just like to see the characters the way they originally knew them faithfully interpreted on screen. If you are adapting Harry Potter to the big screen, what people are excited about is to see the characters they read about come to life in a movie. I think for the most part they captured the look and feel of the books on screen. Could Harry have been played by an black actor? Yes, technically, but I would understand someone being disappointed that he bares little resemblance to Harry Potter who graced the cover of the last 7 books. That is all it is. If Barbie had cast mindy kalingas the main barbie character, many many many women would be confused as the traditional barbie looked a certain way for 50+ years. Barbie smartly found a way to be inclusive while not baffling the audience.
This was a great one, Adam. I one-hundred percent agree. I think this has long become a two-sided coin of annoyance. On one side we have the studios senselessly checking boxes. The other side we have the viewers who freak completely out over being personally assaulted by the faceless studios.
Right on!
I watch a movie in the theater every Tuesday. Currently, the average score for this year's movies is 2.56 out of 5.
If the final score at the end of the year averages to less than 2.5, then Im done with watching new movies all together.
Exactly !!! Case in point: Grease (Rise Of The Pink Ladies). Picture it. Los Angeles 1954. The first Pink Ladies. Asian Girl (Check) Hispanic Girl (Check) Black Girl (Check) Half Spanish Half Italian (Check) Non binary/lesbian (Check). LA 1954. There is No Way these girls would all be hanging out together in 1954. It's so revisionist and woke It's not even believable. Even if the show turned out to be good (which it wasn't), It just takes you out of it because it's so transparent they are checking the boxes. They should have focused on making it a good show instead.
I’m sorry, but calling Bailey a talented actress is hilarious and insulting at the same time
As a black person, Ariel being black is definitely NOT Ariel, it’s completely pandering and to sugarcoat it is not the way to acknowledge the problem
Get over being mad
@@kingkold your ignorance is exactly what I’m talking about
@@ninjanibba4259 so you are mad.
I've kind of noticed this sad trend where straight white men (especially) are scared to actually say they don't think a female actress wasn't very talented (definitely if they're black or gay/queer) bc I'm seeing tons of female actresses getting a pass when they SUCKKKK at acting. But they're a diversity hire so we have to keep our mouths shut and like it right?
@@kingkold I’m mad you keep talking stupid
That’s what I’m mad on
Well said, Adam. And thank you for addressing this.
Studios nowadays are more concerned about checking off "boxes", than delivering an original creative story. Great channel, btw 🤙
Sure, just nowadays, lol. Did you hear the first half?
This is the second video of yours that I watched and I've decided to subscribe. I like the fact that you're not taking the easy path of growing your channel through conspiracy theories and trigger words. Thank you for bringing level headed, smart, thoughtful commentary to a platform that's full of shock and awe.
Appreciate that, thanks!
"Ghost in the shell" does not qualify for that. Scarjo was cast because she looks quite similar to how the character looks. And her outer shell does not represent the soul (ghost) within. That is a core theme of the movie, but obviously the race-obsessed critics didn't get any of that. Spouting their nonsense without having a clue about the philosophical meaning on display.
Stop uttering this ridiculous bs. She was cast because she was a huge name at the time.
@@meciocio Yeah, and she looks the part. What's your problem?
@@youtubevoice1050 I have a problem with people uttering bs on the internet. It's a freaking cartoon "similar how the character looks" lmao
@@meciocio Oh really? Then how come some characters look clearly Asian and others don't? Some speak Japanese and others don't. Sounds like you don't know half as much as you think.
We don't agree on everything, but you certainly echo my feelings exactly with this spicy topic.
When they make a movie and their selling point is "it's diverse, lgbtq+, female led and directed" you know the movie is going to suck before you even see the trailer...
If the selling point is "it's got big boobs, lots of explosions, amusing dialog and a romance between a man and a woman" or something like that, you have no idea how good it will be...
I remember when there were discussions surrounding casting a Black (or non White actor) for James Bond. Like…no. Why do that? What purpose would it serve other than to pander and be politically correct? So dumb.
Lol they couldn't even make Ariel's family black. Oh no, too much representation there
Very good points made. The problem I have is the pandering at the expense of good storytelling. The focus should be story first. At the end of the day I think the majority of people don’t care about race, gender or orientation, as long as good stories are being told.
I don't think any of it is done to make execs feel good about themselves.
It's money, baby! It's *all* about money. Making money IS how they feel good about themselves.
Take a franchise, analyse what key demographic aren't watching, put in a token character of that demographic: more money! It's simple mathematics.
I think the reason The Little Mermaid upset people is because she's the main character. Hollywood are usually more spineless and change a minor character nobody knows or cares about, like Nick Fury. Lots of people know and love the original Little Mermaid, so they all lost their minds.
South Park summed this all up in the Panderverse episode. Make good stories, the Spiderverse movies, Luke Cage on Netflix, etc and guess what everyone will watch and no one will care what color the character is on screen.
There are some aspects where the race of a character may play into the role in a story. Maybe in the family dynamic, the music, certain cultural events. Fe, Encanto and Spider-Verse clearly had a race element in the story, but it didn’t shove it in your face saying “LOOK AT THESE MINORITY CHARACTERS AND HOW AWESOME THEY ARE!” They allowed the characters to be characters. They were able to grow and be challenged. Even if they have a different culture or background, there’s something about Mirabel or Miles that people of any gender or race can relate too. And for some people, that may include specific things like the Madrigal and Morales family dynamic.
The you have examples like the Little Mermaid Nothing wrong with a black mermaid, but why cant she have her own story? Why does she have to live vicariously through Ariel’s? And also, you made the mermaid black but you left the prince white and gave him a black mother? To me it felt cheap and disingenuous. Also a little counterintuitive because it’s like “these minority characters aren’t worthy of having their own stories so we’re going to put them in the white character’s story and hope no one knows the difference. Or you include a minority character and give them nothing to do. The story would be the same without them. The diversity attempts Hollywood is enacting has so many holes in it it’s sad. Like they can’t see a black character as a character. The black is what makes them a character. That’s why, as a black man, whenever I see these lame attempts to diversify and showcase how “progressive” a studio is, I just roll my eyes.
There's a problem with your argument. You say that movies like Spiderverse and and Encanto have a race element without saying, "Look at how awesome we are". But Little Mermaid does not do that either. But because she is black, people think that there *has* to be some kind of agenda behind it? What do you mean by "live through Ariel"? Ariel's skin color never mattered once in the original, unlike Miles or the Encanto characters, where there is clearly a core element at play.
@@Stew91 Her being black didn’t add to the story. The movie was basically the same as the original except for that one aspect and the Prince having an adopted black mom. If race never mattered, then why change it? By changing the race of her character, it implies that it was a factor.
And by living through Ariel, I mean instead of just race swapping why can’t they create original black characters. Miles and Mirabel are unique characters with their own stories. Why can’t they make a black character and give her own story instead of just swapping her out with a white character and not doing anything different. You say race doesn’t matter, but that argument doesn’t stick with the other Disney live action films where they made sure the characters looked like they were suppose to. There was no reason to change Ariel’s race aside from the obvious reasons.
@@Mattyboy-dn4oo Why change it? Because Disney wanted a talented singer. And if Hailey even said that she was hired for her singing voice, don't you think a minority is perfectly capable of being able to tell when they are being used for brownie points, and when they are not? It's people who make her skin color political, especially when you have changes like Ursula being Ariel's aunt, instead of just some mysterious banished sea witch, but skin color ends up being egregious. Disney has Princess Tiana (she is getting her own series), the African series Kizazi Moto, and Moon Girl and Devil Dinosaur, are examples of Disney making their own characters.
I thunk that when a person is a minority visibility is important if only to get the majority familiarized with people who are not.
Dude, THANK YOU fur saying what you did regarding the Little Mermaid. If corporations are going to represent people of color then fine. Give us our own original stories. Stop changing already established white characters to black or brown ones and calling it progressive. 🙄
It's either an over-correction, nonsensical or uncomfortably inappropriate. Cloud Atlas was... REALLY INTERESTING. 😳
Do you watch anime, Adam? That's all I watch now because there's nothing Western animation or Hollywood is making that I'm interested in. A lot of anime from the 80s, 90s, early 2000s still holds up.
I know it's an old example, but to me, Cowboy Bebop is storytelling perfection.
@@KreatedbyKrause live action?
I grew up on western cartoons and my sons will only watch anime
You haven't been able to find anything the past few years in the West or Hollywood? Nothing?
@@sexy1018 Pretty much. 😮💨
Dr. Strange was what 6 years ago? And that was Marvel.
Has there been a big-name Arab actor since Omar Sharif in his heyday? Maybe, but none spring to mind.
Persians aren’t Arabs, they’re Iranian. Though arguably an Arab is somewhat closer than a generic European.
Yes I was going to write about how they mess up Arab representation but glad you talked a bit about it.
For us we do not have that as a problem overseas (me myself not American) so this whole need for representation was never a must have. However, a positive representation would be nice here and there instead of the usual "Arab Terrorist No.1". Or anything resembling "True Crime".
That being said, my biggest gripe about Hollywood in Arab Rep. is the insistence on Colorism. To White Hollywood, we are South Asian looking. So they always hire someone from South Asian background to portray a Middle Eastern. Despite the massive difference in looks and skin color. They mess up two different groups by "representing" one and deleting the other. No Arab payed an Arab and the South Asian didnt get to put his people on the screen.
To Black Hollywood, we are Black. So when they think of say...Jesus....or Cleopatra.....Black.
Sorry to break it to Hollywood but what is good about representing Arabs is that you are not bound by skin color. So it depends on your character's background. Some are as White as Adam, some are as Black as Chris Rock. Many are in between. But no one has a South Asian looking because despite the dark color, that category is different and unique.
But "Representation Matters" Hollywood doesn't really care. They just want the brownie points.
You had a lot of good examples of the white washed movies, except Scarlett Johansson in ghost in the shell. She was playing a character that was in a robotic shell made in Europe. That one actually makes sense.
You have no idea what you are talking about. Scarlett Johansson had no business playing Kusanagi Motoko. In fact, the name (Kusanagi Motoko) should give it away that the character is Japanese. The very movie you are defending calls Johannson's character "Mira Killian," a name that's nowhere to be found in Ghost in the Shell lore. If Kusanagi was always intended to be white, why did she never have a European name until the Hollywood movie invented one? Because the character is not white. In fact, no one in the main cast of Ghost in the Shell is anything other than Japanese, so anyone non-Asian in the main cast of Ghost in the Shell was a problem. That includes that Danish actor who played Batou.
"She was playing a character that was in a robotic shell made in Europe"
This is literally made up. Nowhere in any Ghost in the Shell content does this nonsense you have written exist. Sorry to burst your bubble, but you're way off the mark. Kusanagi is never depicted as white in the original source material. Actually, it's quite the opposite. In fact, the first animated adaptation of the comic book, if you had bothered to watch it, and you I know you didn't, literally has a scene where Kusanagi, Batou and Togusa are all in an elevator together after having walked past two men. Togusa asks Kusanagi who were those two men that they just saw. Kusanagi answers that one of them is a part of another division in the Japanese government. To the second man, she tells Togusa: "I've never seen that tall white man before." That's in the Japanese dialog. It got changed in the English dub.
Just a friendly tip: steer clear of discussing topics you're not well-versed in. If not, it will most likely backfire on you, as has just happened to you here.
@@DaRunningMan why thank you for correcting me with those nuggets of information you skillfully copy and pasted here from other commenters you handily "destroyed". I hope it brightens the rest of your day.
@@samuelbarrett1082"why thank you for correcting me "
My pleasure, buddy!
Instead of getting freaked out about whitewashing or something movies should have a throwaway line saying "this character is biracial or is of decent or adopted". And I don't mind race swapping I just wish it wasn't always black, if we ever get Catwoman in Gunn's DCU she should be Japanese or Native American or something (and also have her outfit represent those cultures).
3:35 my guess on why they didnt have an Arab play a villain is because they were worried that the first time they had an Arab guy was when they needed someone bad for the good white guy to kill.
I've reached the point where as long as the movie is good, the casting choice makes sense, and the actor can pull it off, I don't really care. The problem is that particulary with Disney the DEI considerations are taken before they even have a plan for the movie, which leads to not getting good writers and directors and bad movies. Just hire the best person for the job.
Ghost in the Shell was supposed to be a Japanese woman in a European-looking android body. So it wasn't really a race swap.
Wrong. It was a complete whitewash. Scarlett Johansson was completely out of place portraying Kusanagi Motoko. The name alone (Kusanagi Motoko) screams Japanese. The movie you're defending even renames Johansson's character to "Mira Killian," a name that's totally alien to Ghost in the Shell's original story as it was never in the franchise. If Kusanagi was always meant to be white, why did she suddenly get a European name only in the Hollywood adaptation? It just doesn't add up because the character is undeniably not white. Every main character in Ghost in the Shell is Japanese, so having non-Asian actors in those roles was a big issue. That means even the Danish actor who portrayed Batou didn't fit the bill.
"Ghost in the Shell was supposed to be a Japanese woman in a European-looking android body"
This is total made up nonsense. Nowhere in any Ghost in the Shell content before the Hollywood movie does this invention you have written exist. Sorry to burst your bubble, but you're way off the mark. Kusanagi is never depicted as white in the original source material at all. Actually, it's quite the opposite. In fact, the first animated adaptation of the comic book, if you had bothered to watch it, and you I know you didn't, literally has a scene where Kusanagi, Batou and Togusa are all in an elevator together after having walked past two men. Togusa asks Kusanagi who were those two men that they just saw. Kusanagi answers that one of them is a part of another division in the Japanese government. To the second man, she tells Togusa: "I've never seen that tall white man before." That's in the Japanese dialog. It got changed in the English dub.
Just a heads-up - it's best to avoid diving into subjects you're not familiar with. Otherwise, things might not go as planned, like what just went down here with you.
Alexander Siddig who was Dr Bashir on Deep Space 9 played Ra's Al Ghul on the Gotham TV show. Better late than never 😏
This is without doubt the best take I’ve heard on this subject so far. Moral of the story, give us great movies with great stories. That’s all we ask. 👌
Concern myself with the quality of the movie. I could care less about any other of the factors. I mean the movie ghost in the shell wasn’t bad because Scarlett Johansson was playing an Asian character. It was bad because the movie sucked. Same with the little mermaid remake.
I never had a problem with white actors playing other races. In the old days the world was a lot less interconnected. To me, the art of acting is trying to represent someone you are not, so I don't understand this insistence on actors being the same as their characters. The whole point is pretence. Ideally, an actor would maintain separation between themselves and the role for the sanity's sake. This increasing push to blend the actor and role strikes me as unhealthy for actors, who are flaky enough without being encouraged to *be* their fictional character.
It's ironic. A few hundred years ago, all female roles were played by men. Now female roles are played by women acting like men or they are transwomen.
character from South Park is named Tolkien and hats off to those two guys. There's also That 70s Show's "FEZ" short for Foreign Exchange Student.
As long as we get great quality movies and it’s not pandering to an excessive degree, I am totally cool and like diversity. Think of films like Dune and Dune 2 - both of which have a diverse cast yet put the epic narrative above all else.
So we should disregard diversity and a 100 year history of exclusion in Hollywood (black people, women etc) all together ??
Not even remotely what I said. Maybe actually listen instead of jumping to conclusions.
I did actually watch your whole video but maybe I just misread what you meant. My bad.
@13:40 agreed we need more diverse superhero movies where the cast is prodominately non white.
Hollywood has always been racist. Disney movies like Aladdin and Old WB animations have some of the most racist tropes ever put on cinema. Now its just worse cause everything seems to be woke.
I agree and disagree. The problem is mainly bad stories. But to get upset at characters that aren’t EVEN REAL is crazy. People are underrepresented. They are out of ideas and it shows.
Great video, Adam. Don't forget all the white actors who played Native Americans in all those old Westerns, with long black wigs and in red face.. One small correction - Persians (Iranians) aren't Arabs.
I would like to point out that a lot of new "heroes" are actually villains which is an interesting thing.
But don't forget all the "women's pictures" of the 30's, 40's and 50's! And there were quite a few black movies in the 90's that were about their stories and not (really) race: Jason's Lyric, Soul Food, Waiting to Exhale, Poetic Justice, Eve's Bayou, How Stella Got Her Groove Back, Love and Basketball...among others. They were mostly bombs unfortunately which begs the question "why?" Those were all pretty good movies with universal appeal. Also, there were tons of female film editors very early on which is a different video but I'm just saying. Love your stuff bro!!
@7:40 that changed in the 40s there were so many wonderful roles for women although the studio system treated so many of them badly imo
8:58 I think my issue is that you get people there are "the gay", and they are expected to pirouette and high kick their way through each scene as extravagantly as possible. I'm personally not a fan of camp behaviour; I kind of get an uncanny valley feeling. Lets have some gay men and women who act like real humans in these films. If you want to show them walking hand in hand with their other half or sharing a kiss, etc, I don't mind as long as it's relevant to a story, but please, I've seen enough of Ruby Rhod. I watched Cowboy Beebop live-action the other day, and the barman creeped me right out.
Seeing some of the bigger channels covering this is great, I done a video similar to this yesterday, going over 6 points Disney need to work on to get back to making profit
Shaft was the original Black superhero and it was excellent, way better than Black Panther. The Sam Jackson one in 1999 was great too.
Arabian and Persians are two different ethnicities
Major from Ghost in the Shell was a Caucasian body. Johansson was fine for the role, people are ignorant. And no, I’m not defending John Wayne as Genius Khan, although the role did literally kill him.
Nope. Wrong. Kusanagi is NEVER described as being white. Quite the opposite. In fact, the first animated adaptation of the comic book, if you had bothered to watch it, and you I know you didn't, literally has a scene where Kusanagi, Batou and Togusa are all in an elevator together after having walked past two men. Togusa asks Kusanagi who were those two men that they just saw. Kusanagi answers that one of them is a part of another division in the Japanese government. To the second man, she tells Togusa: "I've never seen that tall white man before." That's in the Japanese dialog. It got changed in the English dub.
" And no, I’m not defending John Wayne as Genius Khan,"
So funny you bring that up.
First, let's make it clear that the director of the first animated adaptation is Oshii Mamoru who is NOT the creator of Ghost in the Shell and didn't even write the movie he directed. The creator of Ghost in the Shell is Shirow Masamune, who wrote and drew the original comic book, and he has never publicly commented on the Hollywood movie despite the fact that he had done so previously on every adaptation of his work, even producing some. He did no such thing with the Hollywood Ghost in the Shell movie. Interesting.
Now, Oshii Mamoru, in most likely an effort to get a Hollywood directing gig if the Hollywood Ghost in the Shell movie did well, went to the press stupidly defending Johansson playing Kusanagi by literally likening it to John Wayne playing Ghengis Kahn. Yes, you read that right. This not only highlights how out of touch he is but also emphasizes that Kusanagi is not portrayed as white. After all, why compare her casting to John Wayne as Ghengis Kahn if Kusanagi were meant to be white? He would've just flat out stated that the character is white, but he didn't because she is not white. He should know that, since the movie he directed literally has the scene I just described above.
Third, the very movie you are defended calls Johannson's character "Mira Killian." This name has never existed in any Ghost in the Shell media before that movie. Why, if the character was white as you claim, did they have to invent a European name for her? Because the character is not white. In fact, no one in the main cast of Ghost in the Shell is anything other than Japanese, so anyone non-Asian in the main cast of Ghost in the Shell was a problem. That includes that Danish actor who played Batou.
Don't ever speak about an issue you know nothing about. You will never come out looking good from it. You here called other people ignorant. But look who came out looking that way.
@@DaRunningManDude, seriously, give it a rest. Very few people are actually going to read those walls of text that you keep spamming the comment section with. Trust me, most will just roll their eyes at you. So, do yourself a favor and just give it a rest. I promise you, it's not worth your effort.
@@KJM1984 Look at how you felt that you just really needed to reply to me in more than one thread. That truth hit you so hard that you just can't handle it. But you can't stop it. So just accept it. It's gonna be okay. I promise you. :-)
@@DaRunningMan Whatever floats your boat mate. 🚢
@@KJM1984 Well, my boat must be floating pretty high then.
..also, while i love this conversation... Could we go a bit deeper and discuss programming and propaganda? American society is built on antiquated messaging, that ensures that certain cultures continue to be seen in a certain light. While story and plot should always come first, there is a bit of conditioning at play.
Can someone give me an example of a movie that was good but performed worse because it *didn't* race swap? Is there an excellent live-action Ghost in the Shell out there somewhere that I just never heard of because they didn't cast Scarlett Johansson?
The first 25 seconds is just absolute truth.
Nice one ADM!
The slow, slow awakening of Adam. Good to see.
Here's the problem as I see it... and I'm black. Race, gender etc LITERALLY is irrelevant to a good story or movie. Black Panther isn't good because it has black characters or because it's set in Africa. It's good because it a SUPERHERO movie with the hero's journey. The new Nick Fury isn't great because the character is black.... it's because it's Sammy L. His skin color has NOTHING to do with he's such a great character. The only time when someone color or gender is relevant and is important is when you're featuring the oppression and eventual overcoming of that oppression, think Roots or Malcolm X with Denzel. Or if you're featuring a particular cultural reality. Don't put a black person in a movie just for the sake of a throwaway racist line by another actor or to showcase stereotypical "black" behavior. Heck with that. But those are more of documentary type movies if you follow my meaning. Finally, it ISN'T Hollywood's job to make ANYONE feel better about themselves. What happened to parents? If you need to wait on Sammy L or Denzel to show you what can be achieved as a black person, I've got news for you, you've got bigger problems because guess what people of ALL stripes and colors struggle to get to the top. Show me a good HUMAN story.... I don't need to reduce my enjoyment and motivation for life to the color of the writer in the screen.
For the Disney movies I just stick to the originals, none of the remakes are as good… with the exception of Cinderella, but yeah little mermaid was my absolute fave movie growing up and at one point I did think a live action would be okay but after watching maybe half an hr of the new one I was lost on how it made any money lol I’m sure it’ll be the same with Snow White which is definitely a more noticeable race swap 😫😝
I also liked Jungle Book, but I agree. I mostly just stick with the originals
They are catering to people who are NOT their audience
Probably my favorite vid you've done. Enjoyed it!
I think the "asian" representation thing is just funny. There are dozens of major races among asians sub divided into hundreds of ethnicities which can further be broken down by culture...and for a lot of it, its not nearly the same thing aa getting a french guy to play a german or a british guy to play a russian.
Im filipino myself...i've been "represented" in a few movies...but honestly that Joe Koy movie wasnt very good. I dont need fo be represented by race, i need to be represented by characters i can relate to. Its completely condesending to tell me im incapable of indentifying with a white character, a black character or any other race on screen. Or that I need fo be catered to in some way...its always white people telling me I need that and its hilarious. I love Korean and Chinese dramas, great stuff, great movies...i dont feel racially represented in them at all...we dont even eat the same kind of rice...but ive laughed and cried with a lot of them.
For historical work i like accuracy. For diversity, I want people of different perspectives, clashing cultures and personalities. I dont get any of that in modern hollywood, the "representation" characters are required to be bland. They should work on fixing that...and if they want to make a biopic on a half white half filipino dude...well im right here, but im pretty expensive.
Other than that, ill take just being entertained. Personally, im accepted by aociety, have a good job and a great life...I dont need anything from Hollywood, i wonder why people think we do.
Another banger of a video. I'm glad you took this on, dude.
Man I miss the days of getting excited for the new upcoming movie. Thanks for the video.
You and me both!
Excellent analysis Adam.
I think they should all be played by Italian actors
I always checkle at how many Italian-American actors were used to play Native Americans in the movies and TV.
Hollywood and cinema is dying and they can only blame themselves.
I don't understand the casting problems in Hollywood? I mean I heard they were using the new Google gemini AI to make sure it was fair! 😂
Tx Adam. This is also happening in our comics and tv 📺. Recently they made Batman’s Robin gay…right outnof the blue….Ive noooo issue with gay characters but dont do a 180 on an established character and then focus on that instead of good storytelling, just check off that box and look like you care. Ugh 😑
GET THIS MAN TO 100K SUBBERS! 💖♥️💯
I think studios need to first worry about how they've wrecked their business model with streaming services, films available to stream at home like a month after cinematic release. All the stunt casting in world isn't going help with that.
Yup. Plastic representation. Quite rampant these days.