Anyone explain how incogni works? Do the data collectors just get more cash from them for deleting than for selling? Cause they for sure are based in country without forced by law removal upon request. And btw upon deleting the data consider using tor
No absolutely not. When i used to try to dress homeless, mire men pulled over to ask if i wanted to come shower or rat at their home, or if they could" help" me. Clearly not theor intentions except perhaps a few.
I am from Egypt and I can tell you that even women who are completely covered up head to toe toe still get harassed by men. IT IS NEVER THE VICTIM’S FAULT
@@winxclubstellamusa I think it's more to do with culture over there.. lack of accountability and putting the blame on women to hold the weight of how a man views her based on how she dresses
@@JesusLovesEVERYTHING The two things go hand-in-hand. Modesty culture is born out of an obsession with physical appearance/sexuality and lack of respect for women as people outside of their physical appearance/sexuality. Same thing happens in "modesty"-obsessed cultures in the US or anywhere else in the world; just watch a few religious cult videos for examples. It's nothing to do with a particular religion or culture in the sense that we can pick on that culture as particularly bad, or whatever, and everything to do with how that religion or culture perceives and interacts with the (dangerous! terrifying!) concept of "women." There is far LESS harassment in societies where the onus to not harass is put on the harassers rather than on women as temptresses, and--as a side-effect--women are basically "allowed" to wear what they like*. Public and even some private harassment happens purely because people (mainly men) feel licensed to harass by cultural norms; the end. *Which is supposed to mean, "what they like" rather than "everyone dresses 'immodestly', 'modestly' or some other variety of clothing which is supposed to have an effect."
@victoriafisher1923 i find it interesting that your first sentence could essentially go both ways.. "American Western culture is born out of an obsession with physical appearance/ sexuality and lack of respect for women as people outside of their physical appearance/ sexuality." This in my opinion is true. Doesn't really matter what you do, but I'm against people (mainly men) who don't respect women regardless of their culture, brainwashing, upbringing or feelings towards them. If a man doesn't feel equally driven to protect a woman from an abuser or a rapist then they shouldn't allowed to be around women ever and I feel the same towards any man who has committed those acts. But I feel like modesty culture can sometimes turn into deviance of sex, but that can also be said towards Western culture. Can't win for losing, I guess
I came to the comments to mention this. It’s actually quite heartbreaking because 99% of those clothes, when seen on someone out of context, would be “normal” (as opposed to the “asking for it” clothes
@@LiteraryChic Even worse, a worrying and disgusting number of the clothes on that exhibit were clothes that were clearly for children….it’s just so horrid to know that whether it’s a a swimsuit, a nun’s habit or a 2 year old’s child’s onesie… it doesn’t stop these monsters from sexualizing us.
@@devinpeirce7152 Sorry, but having worked in a service job for 3 years and seeing how many customers treated female co-workers: NO, age wont protect anyone from harassment. It may discourage some teenage boys, but otherwise older women face harassment equally often. Being less polite does help at least a little bit, as far as I can tell. An average looking woman in her late 50s wearing fully covered in over-sized clothes who introduces herself to customers and goes out of her way to be polite was far more likely to face harassment than a conventionally attractive woman in her early 20 wearing form-fitting clothes and make-up but only interacting with customers as much as absolutely necessary.
‘Was it really my fault?’ Asked the skirt ‘No, it happened with me too’ replied the burqa. The diaper couldn’t say anything. - Darshan Mondkar. It's never been about the clothes.
@@shriderrad4123 Though, not quite as cringe as the intent behind your comment. Surely there are healthier ways you can garner attention? Perhaps, if you have any, ask a friend for a hug? Maybe that'll cheer you up. May the rest of your weekend not be as miserable.
@@dontbefatuousjeffrey2494 Indeed, it's a rather poignant quote that reveals the real underlying problem. I recommend checking out the "What Were You Wearing" exhibit for further evidence that clothing is neither a deterrent nor an enticement - it's gut-wrenching reading the descriptions and the ages of the victims.
from the tiktoks im seeing, i thought "man-repellent" would be a lot more... alternative. when i imagine man-repellent, i imagine aliencore, mall goth, spunky colorful almost clown-y makeup, just bold with the style. these outfits just seem to follow the conventional tiktok fashion trends but veeeeeeeery slightly edgier. + frankly, nothing could ever be truly man-repellent. being woman presenting and breathing (optional) is enough to be noticed, unfortunately
The "man-repellant" will be a variation on the fashion trends they normally do, not a re-invention of fashion. Especially someone trying to survive on TikTok is going to be terrified of being too weird, (rather different from whatever their audience expects). On the positive side, for every possible female style there are men who genuinely like that. Maybe he is hard to find, maybe he gets made fun of for liking the wrong thing, but he exists. On the negative side, there are a lot of men who don't care about your fashion sense because they simply don't care about the personality you are trying to express...or consent...
as a butch lesbian who gets shit from men for wearing men’s button-ups and trousers this discourse goes wayyyy over my head. practically every woman in the videos are fully shaved, full make-up, form-fitting clothing, which is all valid but also like. you have to admit that appeals to men. girl if you are trying to repel men as a primary goal literally just don’t shave your armpits and most men will catch fire when they come within 10 feet of you. also like nobody acknowledges the that some women wear sexually appealing clothes to attract other women.
i would dress sexy to attract other women. problem just being, I'll attract waaaay more men before I'd even find a woman. not worth the risk unfortunately.
butch les as well and even though i have a conventionally feminine face, i still hear nothing from men. i think the struggle is that most women still want to look pretty, and it sucks that women would have to give up self expression to not be harassed
yessssss and also, when I used to not shave my armpits i got harassed by a man that felt the need to tell me to shave them, so..... There's really just not one great solution, i feel like harassment is unavoidable.
omg!! you said it!! I didn't know why the whole thing made me uncomfortable... Thinking that modesty (or any form of clothing) deters men is senseless! Clothes don't stop men. Never have, never will. And thinking we can fix it by wearing something specific is dangerous.
@ironman_546Nobody says you can't dress up in a way that you personally feel more men-repellened in, they just warn that it's Dangerous to assume that it will Always work and keep you save, because No: men have SA'ed women in burkas and 'modestly dressed' women.
I find all this pretty funny (terrifyingly sad) because i live in the middle east and I have friends who dress in full Burqa to basically what western women wear and they ALL have stories of sexual harassment from men. ALL of them. Which pretty much proves it's not about the outfits.
I have a theory that it's because the whole idea of a burka is to cover up as much of a female body as to "not be indecent" and "not tempt men". So by wearing a burka, a woman accepts the responsibility of male behavior, which in turn relieves them of responsibility for their actions. A man who believes he bears no responsibility or accountabilty for his actions and the harm he's done is simply more likely to act in those inappropriate or even criminal way, because "it's not his fault". It's not the clothes that commit SA, it's the male mentality and entitlement and lack of self accountability. A large number of men aren't running around murdering and stealing right now simply because they fear consequences. Watch how many of them turn under the promise of no consequences.
I have not watched the video yet however my opinion has always been this. Talk to any Muslim woman that chooses to cover themself and they will tell you that no, being fully covered does not stop men from being pests. If men have eyes they will gaze.
I loved the comment about "catering to the male gaze" being a sneaky way to slut shame someone, while hiding behind the persona of being a woke feminist. I grew up in a conservative, Christian household and was told that I had to dress modestly, so that I didn't "cause men to stumble in their walk with God." For the longest time, I felt like I was personally responsible for making sure that men didn't have lustful thoughts, so I dressed carefully to make sure I didn't "tempt them." But the truth is that men will sexualize me no matter what I'm wearing. It's taken me a long time to understand that and unlearn the mindset that I was taught. Honestly, I still struggle with insecurity and shame relating to my body. So when I see the online discourse about "dressing for the female gaze", it just feels like one more way to control me and my body, only in different packaging. I'm not here for it.
The thing is, the "walk with god" is a walk of evil. You're not causing them to stumble. They were gonna do that anyway, because that's what the "walk with god" is all about.
"men will sexualize me no matter what I'm wearing" Being not neutral sexually is somehow natural as this can be why humankind is still here. But it is up to you if you enhance the pressure or not. So. those who told that were basically right. And you are right if you do not want to overdo the right principle - but you are not right if you leave it out of consideration or if you think that its exaggaration - especially in your own soul - meant any possiility how a right principle can be thought of or applied in practice.
So unfortunately true, although I have had some men approach me just to ask what kind of clothes they are with genuine interest and to tell me they like my outfit. Very nice dudes. But also yeah... some total freaks.
The only thing I've ever found that deters men is...aging. I had a baby face and looked like I was 20 well into my thirties, and it didn't matter what I was wearing -- I might as well have been a piece of ambulatory meat. It was only once I started looking like an actual adult that the way people (not just men, sadly) changed -- I went from constant condescension and dismissal to suddenly being regarded as a person worth listening to. Ironically, I have far more self-confidence in my 40s than I ever have before, because now I'm allowed to move through the world as something other than an object. I no longer feel like I have to dress to completely hide my body. (It probably helps that I have buff arms and no tits.)
I am a petite woman with a pretty face in my early 30s and the condescension and dismissal is real. I have a wide range of experiences and treated like a child.
Older women wear more comfortable shoes, too, therefore age makes us extra lesbian. *obviously a joke, but now I'm curious. A Google search said "No, the percentage of women who identify as lesbian decreases with age". I'm oddly disappointed.
As a straight guy, I find some of those "men-repellent" or "female gaze" styles way cooler than the "male gaze" ones. Taste is subjective, jerks will keep being jerks, dress as you want. Edit: I genuinely think the reason why the woman at 11:45 is never approached by men when wearing this is because they consider her way out of their league, she looks too awesome
Yeah I feel like it’s a stupid mentality to have, just wear what you want people are going to be assholes anyway. Dressing good makes you feel good, we shouldn’t shame women for dressing “appealingly” and on the less talked about flip side women who don’t dress or behave “appealingly” shouldn’t be assumed to be trying to disgust men or make a political statement.
Also bruh I saw the TikTok at 11:45 on my fyp and was soo confused, like that outfit is soo ethereally beautiful and divinely feminine. Men are probably trying to not approach her because they thing she is a goddess who might smite them. Like nothing about her outfit strikes me as “weird” “crazy” or “quirky”
I heard some esoteric mooing outside my window, and knew Tara had to have posted. This is the earliest I've been to a video! Thank you to the cow for alerting me!
@@TaraMooknee Honestly in my opinion to discourse around the female gaze is homophobic basically there saying that if you like women especially feminine women you are male or a deviant. I don't lnow if you know this but it's something to think about. I'm a femme lesbian that likes other femmes so what does that make me, male gaze or the female gaze ?! Do you see how it excludes gay people, just a thought?!
@@TaraMooknee I'm honored I could make you chuckle, I've loved your channel for years and you always make me laugh! 🥰 Your commentary tends to be really balanced and you discuss serious subjects without it being too heavy. I also love that you're passionate about animal welfare, and the pet shout outs always make me smile. Thank you for existing on this platform!! 💖
@uniquechallenges2478 As I understand it, the male gaze is about how a patriarchal system favours traditional male perspectives which often includes objectifying women. Whatever type you have, if you see women as complex human beings while finding them attractive and are able to personally relate to their experiences (which probably you do since if are a woman yourself), I don't think you qualify at all for the male gaze by definition. The male gaze is about the male spectator, it's not about how the observed woman looks. (Please correct me if you think I am wrong or If you have different thoughts on the topic.)
I started wearing a particular alternative fashion style a few years ago. It's frilly and hyperfem and doesn't show much skin or figure. Basically, it's peak femme gaze. Never in my life have I been catcalled as much as when I wear that style. It's almost like harrassment like this isn't always about attraction but about power. They see me clearly not dressing to be attractive and they go "Let's bring them down a peg" Unfortunately, no matter what we do, we can't guarantee safety from men because ultimately it's not our choices that lead to harrassment, assault or rape, it's the offender's choice to harrass, assault and rape. So yes: dress in what makes you feel nice, but never let your guard down or let the clothes give you a false sense of security. Because it has never been about the clothes.
Used to wear EGL all the time, very similar, *especially* when we were in a group. People get rowdy when they're uncomfortable with people taking up space.
I think it’s also got to do with the fact that you’re simply standing out. to men, anything that catches their attention for whatever reason, wants to be catcalled/asked out/harassed etc. like when a woman with a big bust walks outside, it’s because she wants men to stare at her, and not because she’s just a woman with big boobs that she can’t leave at home
Exactly!!! The only thing that would work is disguising yourself as a man. Men do not catcall because they're attracted to you. They do it to assert power over you.
I think some of it is a mindset. I recently moved from a larger city to a small conservative/religious Mormon town. I hadn't gotten cat called or commented for years (not since my 20's), and suddenly, I'm getting comments all the time (I'm in my 40's). I have a theory that conservative and religious cultures are so much more body-obsessed that they will make comments about others without even realizing (or maybe they do) how inappropriate it is. And sometimes more modest fashions incite more curiosity and more obsession than more showy ones. Living in a culture that is so much more obsessed with modesty and bodies has been harrowing in the sense that you just can't make them stop. There are entire tik toks and youtube channels dedicated to Mormon "modesty" (or how to get around it), and some of the comments about local teen bodies (particularly girls) in some of our online community forums are sickening. Honestly, I think the more conservative someone is the more obsessed they are and the more likely they are to make stupid, inappropriate, and unwanted comments.
What's frustrating about these trends is they still put the responsibility of violence against women on women, when it's men who need to stop harassing women and be more proactive about calling out other men for shitty behavior.
The second part! Men need to start calling out other men when they harass women! It`s so accepted. I saw it even in friendgroups with a lot of great men, they wouldn`t call out one of their guys groping women.
Calling other men out could put that guy in harms way and escalate the situation. Most guys are more willing to get physical with other guys before they hit a woman.
like, i wanna come up with some stupid generalisation on women that is on the same level as how "men" are categorised here to illustrate how stupid this feels, but i honestly can't come up with something as dumb as this without feeling like a fraud. I know i will get the "we dont mean all men, just the bastards" gaslight treatment, but that is bs. If i went around calling "women" shopaholics or whatever you would NOT give me the benefit of doubt that i only mean the girlies with 250 pairs of shoes.
@@travelerfinder7840 1st: Their own friends don`t call them out. They wouldn`t attack their own friends. 2nd: In most situations even if it`s not a friend men don`t get into physical danger calling other men out. (workplace, harassment on the street in daylight, etc.)The only situation where that would even be a possibility is in a club or something like that. 3rd: In case you are in a club you can inform the bouncer / guy at the bar that another men is molesting women, you don`t have to intervene yourself. They will take the complaint more seriously if a man complains, so that helps. This is not about men being afraid to get into physical danger, this is about men not wanting to be seen as the spoilsport, not wanting to loose some buddies at work because you stepped out of the bro-culture, not wanting to stir the pot, not wanting to have that uncomfortable situation where they actually have to hold another man accountable.
Sometimes I dress for me. Sometimes I dress for other women. Sometimes I dress to repel men. Sometimes I dress for male validation. I don’t really see anything morally wrong with any of it.
The misandry is evident 😂 you're unwilling to casually admit you do in fact dress for men. Instead you sort of slide it in as "male validation" as though just dressing for men is taboo. Ironic considering the entire point of your comment was how it's perfectly fine to dress for anyone. Still, I'm glad to see at last someone is pushing the boundaries of the feminist eco chamber. You're at least suggesting it's ok to dress for men, even if you're uncomfortable saying it.
@@LayneBenofsky I genuinely thought, for way too long, that everyone was talking about dressing for the "male gays" like that was bad and I was very confused because that is exactly who I want to compliment my outfit lol
I was walking home from work one night in baggy cargo pants, a large pea coat, and a beanie. All you could see was my face and it was a dark street so you could barely see that. A man walking in the opposite direction hardly glanced at me before blurting out a pickup line. He had milliseconds to clock that I was a woman, but that’s all he needed. That type of guy doesn’t care what you’re wearing, you are nothing but female parts to them. They’re not thinking any more critically about the situation. I replied back to him “Do you know how scary it is to be a woman walking in the dark and have a stranger try to come on to you? Don’t be like that!!” He was kinda stunned, muttered a sorry and I kept walking. I am grateful he wasn’t violent, I think most of them aren’t, but that doesn’t mean it’s not a possibility.
Men actually like you. And like you've said the vast majority of them aren't even violent (even though they have absolute power to overpower you at any moment they wish) Oh the horror!
As a lesbian, I find all sorts of those quirky, creative, multi-layered or boxy outfits really fun and flattering. I feel like they immediately tell me something about the woman's personality and preferences and sometimes they look like art. But I will admit, maybe because I live in a christian and conservative country, I can't tell whether I'm genuinely not attracted to very feminine/"natural" looking women (long un-dyed hair, popular styles of make-up, clothing straight out of celebrity insta, long nails etc) or whether I've conditioned myself to avoid them because they're usually straight as compared to alt girls. The next thing we gotta study is the anti-gay gaze haha
Tell us more! I was hoping for more discussion about this type of gaze, what women see and like on other women when men aren't in the picture at all...but it gets crowded out by conversations about what men do or don't like
Bi lady and I feel the same way. I don't believe it's conditioning-- I think we have preferences, just as any other person does. I prefer for people (men and women alike) to not feel like they've been copied and pasted into real life from a Facebook ad or something. It feels fake. It seems harder to fake an outfit that the wearer has put clear thought and effort into, which ends up being more artsy, sometimes unconventional, and thusly more "real". And that tells me they're less likely to try to hide themselves in favor of what they think "other people" will like, which is too tiring for me to deal with when it comes to a friend or partner. I just got over that myself-- that sort of influence would be very tiring for me
as a pan woman i definitely am guilty of correlating these fun fashionable and aesthetic outfits with someone's sexuality, sometimes completely subconsciously - if a woman dresses in a very stereotypically feminine way, i will assume she is straight; the odds are generally in your favour hahaha, but it isnt fair on the women don't fit into that box... i suppose women who are interested in women do tend to dress in a more alt way? a discussion of the anti gay gaze is such a shout hahaha
Straight old woman here. The idea that an expression of the actual person is what repels men is an interesting thought. Men just want a blank they can impose themselves onto. A blank to reinforce themselves.
I think you've touched on something essential here that about half of my female friends get: people are individuals and what they fund attractive is individual. My husband finds comfort highly, if not the most, attractive. I have a brother that really digs the night club looks. I have female friends that prefer dramatic, business-y looks on whatever people they're attracted to and female friends that love anything ornate. Theoretically, we have so much historical and cultural fashion knowledge at our fingertips and far less (certainly not zero) physical labor to do every day that we could, ideally, wear pretty much whatever we want and look however we want to look. But, when we put so much emphasis on trying to attract or detract any particular "gaze," any and all comfort, sense, or sensibility can really fly out that window real fast. There's so much more that could be said about dressing for such a vast variety of reasons and sort of philosophies on it, but I'll just leave that here and say thank you for your video.
One time while visiting an elderly relative, he informed me that my skirt was slightly see-through (you could see the outline of my legs in certain lights) and I was like "yeah I know", he asked if I was concerned about any attention I'd get and was really surprised and thoughtful when I told him that I get more harassment when I'm dressed more traditionally modest and feminine so it didn't really matter to me. Some people are disrespectful and entitled and nothing is going to stop them from doing what they do, so you should just wear tge stuff that makes you comfortable and happy
and yet, not a single thought of concern for the people that don't want to be sexually harassed by the outline of your legs ever entered your selfish mind I bet
I had a discussion once with a male friend who was saying that catcalling and street harassment is more common if you look or dress in a sexy way (loved him giving his opinion on women's experiences, but sure). I responded that I got catcalled / harassed on public transport for the first time when I was 12 - I remember it vividly because I found it incredibly humiliating, and I was with my mum who later told me I couldn't wear the skirt I was using anymore, which made me very sad because it was my favourite skirt. I then asked my male friend if he thought a 12-year-old was very sexy and that's why men started me harassing me publicly by then. He looked very uncomfortable and later admitted he was wrong and apologized. Although you may catch more attention wearing some clothes rather than others, there is no way to completely avoid men's harassment. Harassment like sexual abuse is about power, so no matter what you wear it can happen to you, since sexual harassment is not really about you, but about them.
Same, the time I received the most catcalling, I was barely a teenager... Recently, I've been catcalled while wearing a black abaya/ long, wide dress...
But he wasn't wrong, you just successfully build your argument in a way that if he disagrees with you he must be into children. 🙃 From what I learned, the harassment starts when you hit puberty and then the frequency reduces over time. Which means that to the cat-caller you are 'woman enough' to be objectified but young = weak enough to not fight back. I don't know if cat calling is ever done to genuinely hit on someone or only to punish women for showing themselves publicly, but obviously the less you wear ('sexier') , the more you show, the higher the incentive to punish you. (Same correlation with degree of curviness, the more womanly features you have, the more you have to hide in order to not be punished.)
@@John-cd9ji What is your source of catcalling being done to punish women? Your own experience? Have you been catcalled or are you a catcaller, John? If you've ever been catcalled, you might have observed that it is often done when men are with other men, because the objective is to show off their own masculinity. Nothing to do with punishment, and nothing to do with the woman or little girl who is catcalled, as she is just used as a means to appear strong and masculine in front of the guys.
@John-cd9ji he was. Catcalling happens regardless of clothing. You've said it yourself. Those men look for someone they think can't fight back. Catcalling younger children (than 10) is just harder because they're usually accompanied by an adult....
Tara is right that there are no guarantees, but I’ll never forget going out the morning after I shaved my head for the first time. I had about a 30 minute walk to my classes and not a single man I passed would even make eye contact with me. There is not a single outfit that has made me feel as invisible to men as a buzz cut did. I felt the freest I ever have rocking a buzz cut at the bar. My hair is long long now, but I think about shaving it off quite often just to feel free like that again.
@@omniphage9391 not wanting to be harassed by men in your daily life is not the same as not wanting to date men ever. I dated some really good guys when my head was shaved. They were guys who wanted to get to know me, they never made me feel pressured into anything I didn’t want to do, and I genuinely think it was an extra layer of defense in situations like frat houses that we know have made many women uncomfortable and downright unsafe. I’m straight, and I like men a lot, but that does not mean I want to be harassed on transit, drugged, assaulted, or have any other experience with a man who can’t respect my time, boundaries, and autonomy.
omniphage: why are you so antagonistic?? Rejection also exists, make a potential partner date the real you, not the fake one. Even then some guys are into shaved girls, there no thing 100% of men (who are into women) like...
@@lmcb8447On mobile, you can tag someone by tapping on their comment. On pc, there's a little comment box icon thing you can click. Under or to the side of their comment.
Yesss im so tired of seeing "male gaze" misconstrued as meaning "what men find attractive". Can we please retire this use from fashion discourse and call it "dressing to defy patriarchal beauty standards" or something. We cant dress our way out of being objectified and denied agency
An older man once made a pass at me while I was delivering his mail. I was soaked in sweat, had my hair pulled back, and was wearing almost no makeup, a dirty t-shirt, and knee-length cargo shorts. Men harass women because they feel like it, not because of what they're wearing.
Hair pulled back no makeup is a definite up. Especially compared to the opposite, we'd rather have that than some stupid fancy hairstyle and cakey makeup.
@@ZalemMoon Yup, that's there's so many makeup companies, singles events full of women, and hordes of articles in women's magazines about catching a man.
@@juliawnuk3644 from what i remember, it's pretty much what it says: check if the woman could be replaced by a sexy lamp and if it would change anything to the narrative. if it doesn't, congrats, your woman character has no agency
@@frogblehfrog143 Addition not disagreement: I believe it was specifically a test of if Bechdel could 'safely' imagine the characters were lesbians. Isnt talking about dating a guy, is interacting with another woman. Therefore the women could be a couple.
Im a fat woman who was a fat girl and so this is like anthropological research for me because in general I don't get male attention even if I want to. Whether I wear baggy clothes or tight clothes, my body is always considered "wrong". None of the women in this video have a body that looks remotely like mine in any way. I remember when I was younger and I got whistled at on the street I was so shocked and happy. And wow, that's sad.
yeah… I was walking down the street this weekend and this dude yelled to his friends, “you see this lady in the ice cream shirt, she’s, like, a five!” and they all laughed. but as a fat person I kind of wanted to flip my hair a bit and be all omg he thinks I’m a five! 😂😅
Based on my personal experience and things I have been told by other women, I can tell you that no, you aren't automatically safe if you're overweight or clearly morbidly obese. Maybe there is a point at which most women are considered too big for most men, but it must be a fairly high weight. 135 kilos at a height of 165 cms doesn't cut it, for example.
@@camelopardalis84I’m 5’9” and 350 pounds and totally gray and wear glasses and 54 years old, and massively depressed, and the thing I consider when I am planning for any day I need to walk to the bus stop and ride a bus is: is any part of my ensemble really striking in pattern or color or design or decoration? Is my lipstick too fancy? Am I in any way just plain visually noticeable, even in the abstract, or just one piece? If so, I need to be on my guard because men will be all over me IF they see me. Not men I am interested in; much older, or way too young, whom I am assuming want my presumed money (ha!). If I am just in comfortable, generic clothes, my body and age are an instant cloak of invisibility. So often I put makeup on at my destination, and save my fun, extravagant, quirky things for when I am in a group. I am not saying this to brag - no one has been interested in me as a human being for decades now. But as a TARGET - for harassment, for solicitation, for “Oh she must be super-desperate, I bet I can score” - all they need is to see you. If you exist, as a woman, in their sight, they feel you are making yourself a target. How dare you be out in public? Even old fat women. It is NOT about anything as pleasant as attraction.
As an overweight, middle-aged, non-passing trans woman, I never get that sort of attention. From a practical standpoint, I guess that's good. But on the other hand, I would like to experience it, at least once in a while.
As an average cis male, I really don't think the clothing is the problem with unwanted attention. Some men are just immature pests that would harass a walrus mascot if they thought there was an attractive female inside.
I don't even think the looks of the woman in the walrus costume matter that much. There are many jerks who would harass Gollum's grandmother, especially when they are drunken.
Speaking from personal experience: absolutely fucking NOT. Whether I was in my oversized and comfy pajamas at school before they changed to dress code or the near floor length skirts and flowy tops I wore when I was in the Jehovah's Witness Cult or when I'm on the move in my workout gear and now age appropriate clothing, I have had men, Creepy or Sane approach me. It is what it is. It's just something that we as women have to deal with so wear whatever you want when you want and don't overthink things.
@@MusiciansRule07 culturely it is accepted for men to "shoot their shot" . Creepy old men will tend to approach herass young girls. Because there is no punishment for that. But appearance does and will always matter.
I think if there were more opportunities for men to not have to make the effort with every even vaguely attractive woman to get a date, it probably wouldn't be that way. As it stands, any guy stupid enough to wait for a woman that seems receptive, he's going to die alone without any kids.
I feel like I'm going insane over here as a man. I have spoken to a lot of guys about their taste in women, and no one so far has cared about clothing. Best you can get is a vibe, like "modest" or "sporty" but these are more about attitudes than fashion (to men). Outfits are never, ever a deal-breaker, but make-up and hair CAN be. All these social media women talking about fashion have never spoken to (straight) men about this stuff, and why would they? It shows, though. These women want male repellent? Asymmetrical makeup. Artificial hair dyes, applied in streaks that dry out the hair. Over-use of bold makeup in general, especially metallic or high saturated colors. A vaguely disgusted facial expression at all times. Too much perfume, or none at all. Women and men find the same things attractive, and are both capable of poor taste. Few things are truly, universally unpleasant, and they are unpleasant to women too. Male repellent isn't "bad" fashion, its being ugly, intentionally, inside and out! If a woman cares about her appearance enough to watch fashion advice to scare men away, that woman has already failed. Or just try to look like another man, that one is foolproof. Short hair with a hat, men's clothes, no makeup at all, and sunglasses at all times. If all else fails, nothing is less appealing to men than the end of a pistol.
It doesn't matter what you wear, nothing stops people from putting whatever message on you they want. Thank you for pointing out the slut shaming issue here, we really do criticize and side eye eachother over everything and I'd love it if more of us could recognize we grow up around misogynistic messaging so we all have internalized this to some degree, unlearning that is an ongoing thing and this discussion is v much part of it
I used to have "man repeller" clogs (RIP, my MALE dog chewed them up....) but men would come up specifically to tell me how ugly my shoes were and then stay and chat. Women actually told me my shoes were cool and looked really comfy.
I find the idea of "man repellent" outfits really strange personally... Dressing in relation to what men "don't want" still grants a strange amount of power to the preferences of men, and still bases decision making around those expectations. Not to mention that a lot of these outfits are just really cute... I understand that beauty standards being repurposed for something other than the service of patriarchy is productive, but it kinda seems like maybe beauty standards just shouldn't be projected onto people at all in the first place. Maybe this is what the first step towards that looks like? It seems like engaging in a cultural gender war with misogynists just kinda plays into anti-feminist rhetoric when perhaps the issue could be sidestepped. At the end of the day I'm an outsider looking in tho so I guess this take should probably be taken with a grain of salt.
While the goal should be to wear just what makes you happy, on the journey to finding yourself being contrarian on purpose, with "ugly" styles, "anti-fashion" styles or "man repellant" styles can be important steps. By breaking up the norms you wear raised to conform to and find security and validation in you can learn how it feels to present this way, learn about your own comfort in clothing and about realistique reactions of your environment (because the truth is, that there is no way of dressing, that will actually "keep man away", at best you can choose which type of men will react more frequently. And when you realise that by dressing contrarian you start to be open to really find your own style, that expresses who you want to be in public, and not what you think is expected of you. Of course this is not the only way of doing things, but it is one way.
@@hannajung7512 I think what you write is important to note! Wearing what pissed off or weirded people out most helped me get comfortable in wearing what I can wear (sensory issues) even if it's not as fem as I'd like to...
I agree with you that it`s still dressing in relation to men and that is still a kind of a prison. If you really want to be left alone and that is your priority than it`s worth taking mens reaction into account, though. There is no way you will change the world or men over night, so accomodating to reality it is.
I don't think that's a valid criticism. We're fighting against male oppression and a society that caters to men, that's why people want to wear clothes that repel or even offend them. Its a statement against oppression.
I'm chronically ill so I dress up whenever I leave the house to celebrate getting my own groceries or getting blood tests. I don't wear punked-out ball gowns anymore but I still do it up. I'll dress up for my solo dance parties too. I've collected vintage for decades. I'm wearing it for me.
17:55 that story reminded me of the time i took the train home from a convention, in full unsexy male character cosplay (we're talking cowboy hat, binder, drawn on beard, heavy contour makeup) and a man over twice my age chatted me up and wouldn't leave me alone. truly, they're working so hard to counter the "what was she wearing?- mentality all by themselves...
A lot of gay/bi men like effeminate looking men and masculine looking women. Girl in male cowboy look kind of hits both of those at once.. Of course its no excuse for that kind of behaviour - some people are just pests (or creeps).
@merliiiinn Ah yes the They, the 50% of the human population you just lumped in with the creepy older guy with a thing for women's facial hair. Great reasoning there. But i guess you're just venting and this a channel for the sisters. I'll have you know i come on channels like this sometimes and the things women say about men in general on here is not entirely endearing. We all have a burden to bear.
@@raphaelmohr1965 What, and the things men say about women when we aren't around are "entirely endearing"? Please. This is nothing. The women in these comment sections are still way too kind about men in general.
@@raphaelmohr1965 Ah yes, "the women" who you just treated as a monolith as well. Not the serve you think it is. If you feel spoken to/about by my comment, maybe some self reflection is in order...
I've always found this trend slightly annoying because all of it seems so arbitrary. Some men like "tomboys", some like women who dress up like medieval elves, and some like it when you dress up like a rainbow. The Japanese fashion trends Lolita (not related to the book) or Gyaru stemmed from a desire to not conform to strict gender standards within the culture, but both groups still get sexualized and objectified by men. What these women are doing is mostly harmless but I feel like it's also pushing the idea that there is a right way to protect yourself from men by dressing a certain way, but we know from history that there is no perfect solution to getting harassed or worse.
This! When I was younger I used to dress in a way to try to repel people (everyone) away from me but in hindsight all I did was highlight how vulnerable and broken I was, and you can imagine what kinds of people that is attracting.. It's best to accept that you are always going to be attracting someone so you should dress in a way that makes you feel confident and shows your personality/interests, that way you attract similar people to yourself.
Well... You're kind of playing it "not all men" there. I get it as a "from now on, i'm gonna wear whatever i want to and not what i think men would want me to wear" (men as in the archetype you've personnally built)
@@apieryt2694 ??? If you're taking what I said as a defense of men, I have no idea where you're getting that from? I'm just saying there's no perfect way to stop harassment.
@@parasaurolofun i'm sorry about the misunderstanding, i just meant that you're applying the same logic when it's not about that, at least from my perspective. I believe the -men part of -man repellent- outfit is directed at every so called red pill guy or incel or whatever woman hating gent there is thinking he's still got a say in what women should be wearing. It's not about stoping the harassment really it's more about relieving some of the mental charges about dressing a certain way that's not the way you'd like. and that's why it seems arbitrary. The same goes for "i'm not like other girls" syndrome, every girl is not like the other ones (obvsly), it's just that we've been led to believe by medias that girls (and women) were'nt dimensionnal, if not only physical possessions to the men It's arbitruary because it's subjective, as long as we decide it's that way, it is. (I'm not sur if I'm making any sens, it's not my native language)
@@parasaurolofunjust because you think you don't need it eases the emancipation of certain women, (and that's a good thing) it's a boost in the confidence of some leading them to a slightly less stressfull life
Ive found that the louder my outfits are (no matter how modest or immodest) icky men leave me alone. My clothes are very bright, frilly and flowy. My lipstick half the time is green or blue and I have glitter under my eyes. I dress to be happy that’s it and I think the confidence makes them uncomfortable.
I would say that this is the crux of it, but there are exceptions to every rule. I've had unfortunate reason to learn that some men ( _especially_ conservatives ), will seek out a leftist woman for a partner (often lying about himself in order to entrap them), rather than a tradwife wannabe...because their internal desire is ultimately to dismantle and sabotage and gaslight and control their woman in order to feel powerful...and so, doing that to a woman who DOES want to exercise agency and autonomy feels more satisfying to them than dismantling a woman who was looking to "submit to" and "obey" him from the beginning.
This describes my experience, I kinda feel like I look like an "easier target" in the low effort outfits that the icky men would consider "normal" cause I look like I don't have much of a personality or standards or I am probably desperate in their heads
Interesting. That could explain some things. I dress in a way I consider very feminine, even hyperfeminine. But yes, it tends to involve things like an elaborate, frilly dress that's the color of Pepto-Bismol.
As a trans woman with lots of male friends I can testify that, yes. Most men are easily scared by hyperfemininity, particularly when presented with confidence, have no idea why.
Honestly, I'm very grateful for this video. I've been struggling a bit lately with questions of, "Am I dressing for men? I don't feel like I am, but... am I?" and this was the quiet reality shock of, "just wear the clothes you like to wear!" I did go out in clown inspired makeup recently and I felt genuine so powerful. I want to try do more over the top makeup, in the past I've only saved that stuff for special events, but it felt really nice to put a sparkly heart on my cheek and make my eyeliner look like a butterfly
and even if you were dessing for men so fucking what? it's not anti-feminist you're not hurting any woman it's neutral it' the point is having self awareness and agency not guilt and overthinking every thing you do dress however you want babe
@@nanomia I think part of why it bothered me is because I'm a lesbian and since I'm not even *attracted* to men, the thought I was maybe actually dressing for men felt so... invalidating towards my own sexuality, I guess? Like, the idea that I was subconsciously making myself presentable so I'm appealing to people who I don't want to find me attractive felt poorly.
My Gramma wore baggy sweaters and jeans not only for my whole life, but for my mom's whole life. She always wore beanies, so we all have beanies that we call our "Gramma hats". I've never questioned her femininity. Now that I'm older, hearing people argue about whats a "woman", I'm just like "wtf is going on? Why can't people wear clothes?! 😭
"I didn't retaliate because you just don't know what could happen." I felt this 😭 "Why weren't you more aggressive?" "Why didn't you tell him off?" Because some people are dangerous when they're angry? Because I've experienced that first hand? Because my brain has switched to survival mode and I'm trying my darndest not to make the guy mad because I DON'T KNOW what could happen?
I distinctly remember being 21 and taking an empty evening train. A drunk guy decided to sit next to me, blocking me into the window. He made small talk for a bit, and eventually asked for my number - I told him I was going to my boyfriend's house (true). He didn't keep asking for my number, but he also didn't leave, and all I could do was try and diffuse the situation by keeping things light and chatting. At one stage he asked to take a picture with me (????), and I pulled an "oh god please help me I'm being held hostage here" smile as he took the picture. I would like to think sober him, or his friends, saw that picture later and were embarrassed by it. I can dream at least 🙃
@@Whitepawprint That sounds so stressfu 😩 It's so true though, sometimes diffusing the situation is all you can do. Like, personally, I'm not that tall or heavy set, so me fighting an entire grown man is probably not going to go well, I'd like to avoid that if at all possible please. I know women who could, but I don't think that's me.
It’s worth considering that this is also a concern for any other men that may be present who might want to intervene on your behalf. Whilst many of us would brave it out, not all men are good at violent confrontation and nobody wants to get their ass kicked or worse to save a stranger a few moments discomfort. Probably a bad example but it’s not uncommon for guys to intervene when witnessing a guy hitting his girlfriend only for them both to start attacking the guy. There was a situation on a bus in the u.s. recently when three guys, one of whom was ex military, stood up to a man who was being abusive to two Muslim women. It ended with all three getting stabbed, one was killed on the bus, one died of his injuries on the way to the hospital.
@@zappasmoustache23 I mean, sure, I wouldn't really expect strangers to stick their neck out for me in a potentially dangerous situation, regardless of their sex or gender. My point was moreso that any time people are asking, of a scary situation, "why did that person do x" or "why didn't that person do y," the answer is probably because they were scared. And my response to anyone saying "well they should have done this" or "they shouldn't have done that" is, you probably would have behaved similarly had you been there 🤷
Watched a video not long ago about how the 1700’s trend of bringing the waistline high up made men angry because they thought everyone was pregnant- Same vibe
Or the 14th century sideless surcoat which sent society into fits because it showed the kirtle underneath. I think men being offended over what women wear is a hobby😒
I'm STILL unclear as to whether or not all women are dressing for themselves, for other women, or to satisfy oppressive male opinions. Because we all know that all women have the same motivations all the time.
My problem is why are they dressing for or against anyone. Just dress for yourself. who cares how you're wearing. Also it also feels like it demonizes women who do like wearing "male gaze clothing". god I hope you address this in your video because that's all I'm thinking about
Dressing for other people is just as legitimate as dressing for yourself. Heck, dressing to attract others is legitimate. Anything from expression to uniformity can be represented in fashion and that’s okay.
My take on it, I believe that trend makes them more of a target than if they were just wearing casually fitting clothes. Some dudes are gonna make a move on you if they want to, even if you were wearing a hefty trash bag.
I think it’s interesting that every woman that was used as an example of man repellent/female gaze content was skinny & overall pretty conventionally attractive. I don’t know exactly what that says about the content or our culture as a whole, but I feel like it says something
What it says is that attractive people are more likely to attempt to monetize their looks on social media. Or that attractive people will just be more successful on social media.
We know for sure that social media algorithms are often biased towards stereotypically attractive people and that many people are too. I imagine that likely influenced the clips tara put in the video as she probably just searched for the most popular clips on this theme.
To add to the above comments - the less conventionally attractive you are the more you're expected to put in "effort" and bend over backwards to conform to beauty standards. People considered attractive are allowed to "get away" with more alternative clothing without so much bullying and shaming
@@Darm0k which is also the male gaze, i assume. When these women make videos for women, they get more success because they look more conventionally attractive to men. IT ALL MAKES SO MUCH SENSE AND IS INTERNALLY CONSISTENT TO THE POINT OF PERFECTION
the male gaze female gaze tiktok trend is genuinely laughable because all they do is very slightly edgier makeup or flowy clothes instead of bodycon clothes. but like it's all 100% shit i've seen straight men say they find really attractive. it's still objectifying. it's like tiktok thinks the difference between the male gaze and female gaze is being one dimensional and sexy or one dimensional and cute. when both of them are just being objectified and the actual female gaze in film is about just not objectifying everyone in the first fucking place.
right, I watch those tiktoks like... do you genuinely. GENUINELY think that a straight man wouldn't like that. as if men aren't literally obsessed with sundresses, don't dm "intimidating" insta baddies, or there aren't whole sections of the internet dedicated to thirsting over tomboys and alt girls.
Right on -- I think you hit the nail on the head re: that these trends are two sides of the same coin of objectification. An issue is when the supposed "female gaze" utilizes the same, patriarchal visual language & assumptions as the "male gaze," thereby serving the same patriarchal master & reproducing the same patriarchal status quo.
objectifying? how is it objectifying? do you actually believe women are objectifying themselves? I live in a muslim countries where women wear hijab and burka and men still objectify women so much because a man that believe women are inferior than men WILL NOT respect woman no matter what she wears a bikini or a burqa. why we women keep siding eyeing each other on everything? I never hear a discussion about men's clothes but women's clothes? ALL THE DAMN TIME. let women live we all have our personal preferences. sorry but your comment reeks of misogyny.
@@fbrown9861Men liking something is not really a problem. If some of them didn't behave like cavemen everybody could wear and like whatever. Catcalling cavemen aren't the same demographic as some people with more niche and less-mainstream taste.
As a fairly butchy lesbian i can confidently say that all men are not attracted to one type of woman. You would think that sometimes looking more like them than they do would turn them all off, but it turns out that there are a few out there that don't go for the feminine look!
Yeah, I remembered a youtube short where a stud was just walking outside in a neighborhood and dudes were still trying to pick her up. There is no real way to avoid the male gaze, especially if you are fairly attractive.
This whole video has been a colossal waste of my time. Once I saw a research (I think it was in the context of p**n) on what type of erotic fantasy het men and women prefer and turns out men prefer the “girl next door” type while it’s women who go for the hot guy, tall, muscular and lookalike of their favorite Hollywood actor. Seems to me these women expert on the ’male gaze’ are projecting.
pansepot1490: not all women are into the 50s-Hollywood type and not all men are into the girl-next-door type. The video is about what is societally thought of the male and female gaze,on stereotypes. Also not surprising since plenty of women are into the 50s-Hollywood type when the movies lots of them grew up with usually had the beautiful unattainable prince charming as the main character's partner at the end . I was into the very good looking rich boy (as a kid), and I did watch those movies,then I changed types(and most romance genre is very cheesy with that type of guy so I no longer watch the genre), though not all ppl change tastes over time (nor all have their tastes affected by exposure).
I feel like a lot of these "man-repellant" outfits are very "out there" and likely to draw more attention tbh. I'd think the actual strat would be to dress as generically as possible to just blend in with the crowds... but that only works in places with lots of other ppl.
Not to be man going um actually; but my quip for male gaze is: it's not a look but a way of looking. Any *aesthetic* can be seen with a male gaze. Any body can be male-gazed: like the action movie focus on lead's ass or abs: that's male gaze! Its cutting up the body for consumption as object of desire, it is the dehumanizing, the erasing of a person to an aesthetic sentiment... Then again reducing people to aesthetic sentiments is wildly lucrative so
If you've ever spent any amount of time in a gay club or on grindr you'll get an idea of what men look like through the male gaze. The gay community has a huge problem with body dysmorphia for this exact reason.
@@Caleb6000 yeah. It just gets named after men because of the composition of the hegemonic power structures. If women had been socially dominant the the style would be named after them
I very much agree with this video. In my personal life, I have had good experiences with "male repellent clothing," before it was called that. While I was in college, I lived down the street from a whole cluster of bars and nightclubs, and it was scary walking by at night sometimes, because you were very likely to be harassed if you looked fem-presenting. It was comforting to waer certain things, because frequently, when men would turn to look at me, instead of catcalling (or worse) they'd just look taken aback and keep right on turning. But, policing what other people wear because it isn't what makes you feel good, is the exact opposite of what this kind of awareness should be. You, and everyone, should dress in a way that makes you feel safe and happy. Someone else wearing something you don't personally like isn't an inditement of their character.
The biggest thing that drives me nuts about “men repelling clothing” discourse (aside from the gender essentialism and heteronormativity) is the fact it focuses on the wrong thing- the issue is not that men are attracted to certain clothes, it’s that many men assume their attraction is owed attention. Like you mentioned, no matter of dress is gonna stop All Men. And as a transmasc myself, I find a lot of alternative “men repelling” fashions super attractive! I wear goth and lolita regularly myself! I’m sure plenty of cis men out there like it too! But if I find someone, especially a stranger, around me attractive I keep that shit to myself! This is just another case of people putting the responsibility on women’s personal choices rather challenging the things society teaches men about treating women.
Thank you for calling the underlying heteronormative and borderline homophobic tones of this trend. It's so easy for do many leftists to get caught up in gender/bio essentialism because they never stop to think about queer ppl existing
Omg, yes. Why can't men find a woman attractive and then JUST KEEP THAT INFORMATION TO HIMSELF. Does he think I don't know I'm attractive or something? Does he think I care what he, random man #1, thinks of my looks? If I cared what he thought I'd also have to care what every man on Twitter who calls me ugly thinks. I don't.
@@pioneershark2230 I think they mean more specifically comments on their physical attractiveness-there being a big difference between saying “that’s a cute dress” and “damn you’re hot”, the latter of which is (for most people) more inappropriate coming from a stranger. General complements on outfits are pretty harmless but I think often times cis men aren’t taught the difference (or care to learn, depending).
Good video. I've been thinking a lot about this lately, zooming out, basically the conclusion/final thought; being perceived. Accepting the fact that it's out of our control is SO HARD. I hate it! Letting go, remembering to just dress and present as myself to myself, remaining authentic, is the (my?) power move. And it's also a privilege to be able to do that.
I don't care about female or male gaze. If I am in the mood of wearing a dress with a huge cleavage, I will wear it. I'll be judged by both men and women. I'll be judged no matter what I wear, so why not feel hot and make myself happy?
Female gaze can only be applied to media and fictional characters. The moment ppl chose to apply it to real life, it stopped making sense. Real women can make choices, a character in a scriptt can't.
also the thing that makes me mad is this notion of "the female gaze." ???????????? yeah sure language can evolve etc etc but the entire point of the male gaze is that it's an academic term used to refer to the ways in which women are portrayed in media and how that affects women's self-perception (and men's perceptions of women) in the real world. and these tiktok people hought it'd be a good idea to co-opt that language for "this is what girls like🤗☺"
Yeah I’m not sure why this comment doesn’t have more attention. The male gaze is like an ever-watching eye in the lives of many women. The point isn’t to add another gaze, it’s to remove the gaze in the first place. We are not for consumption, and in this context, the male gaze is describing a willful and forcible consumption of our bodies in any form. “Male fantasies, male fantasies, is everything a male fantasy?” [yes]
I don't see why there shouldn't be an opposite to the male gaze. Women have their own "problematic" ways of viewing things. If there isn't already, it would be interesting to see a study about it.
yoooo same. Thank you for undoing the spell of "I need to change how I dress to reduce male attention outside". I knew that's not how it works intellectually, but sometimes you just need someone to work through the obviously incorrect implications. I started wearing shorter skirts and long socks now in my 30s and I feel so much happier than baggy (still comfortable!) clothes as a teenager and young adult. Partially a controlling environment where my mom and stepdad called me a 'whore' as a 'joke', then miraculously became a 'virgin' after meeting my now-husband, but whatever. People will barf their trauma onto anyone else before they admit change has the potential to make them happier and go seek therapy.
l'm speaking as a man but like... The whole idea of the male gaze as used by tiktok and shit is so unhelpful. Like, it's so far removed form its useful origins as a critique of cisheteronormative patriarchal standards limiting perspective in film to just be generally essentialist nonsense that doesn't actually grapple with systemic issues. But hey, pop psychology did the same shit with Narcissism, depression, anxiety, OCD, etc so i cant exactly be surprised.
I just hate the way ppl are misusing "male gaze" everywhere. It was about the agency given or barred from female characters in fiction, not about girls looking sexy. The sexiness is incidental to the male gaze, a female character could be fat and hairy in baggy jeans and a band tee and she's still male gaze if she's sidelined by the story and entirely lacks agency compared to the male characters, and a different female character could be in stripper heels and bikini armor but if she's a driving force of the plot and has interiority as a character she isn't male gaze. There are other critiques for those that don't involve assigning attraction to women as a male thing, which is a stereotype that really fucked me up as a baby lesbian. As for fashion? If we're applying the original idea of male gaze to it, you literally cannot stop men from using their "male gaze" on you. If they don't see women as people with interiority, that isn't gonna change if you put on baggy sweatpants. And if we're gonna reverse male gaze into female gaze, the quintessential female gaze art form is yuri manga where men either don't exist or only exist on the side lines. A man in the female gaze is a nameless faceless boyfriend who only exists as a 10 second phone call while a woman is fucking his girlfriend lol
the important factor is not only agency in the story, but agency in the presentation of the moment. Is the woman in question depicted as a complete human with emotions, ideas etc. or is she just a projection of the viewers desires and thoughts. The easiest reckogniseable way is of course the objectivication and sexualisation, but the opposite can be the case, too. When the image of the woman is used for other forms of projection, like depicting her only as a mother, especcially with a boy child in the center (I would argue Mother Mary is very much depicted with a male gaze almost every time). It is important to reckognise, that even a character that has agency in the story, can be portraite by the camera with a male gaze by turning her into an object of desire or disgust in the way she is filmed. Almost all "strong women" characters in 2000's action films and video games are like that.
and no, the manga scene you described is not female gaze, it can be still male gaze. At least usually. Because it is still a male fantasy, and the girls are drawn mostly to be attractive to men and in situations that serve as projection for male desire.
@@hannajung7512 I think you just don't understand what agency and interiority mean here. While you can't control the interpretation a viewer has, if a female character is given interiority and agency in the story she is by definition not just existing as a stereotype. The "strong women" stereotype you refer to is a distillation of this. While they in theory have agency, 9/10 times they are side characters that defer to men on most fronts and whose only characterization is not like other girls bullshit. There's also very often a male self insert following her around even if she's the MC specifically to act as the gaze of the audience, to make it easy for men to insert themselves into the story without having to empathize with a female character. When a "strong woman" character doesn't do this, she's fine.
most of yuri readers are actually men believe it or not. they also like this entire "tiktok muscle mommy" thing (my partner does for example)... good for them i guess?? lmao. most of these muscular women are still anatomically incorrect anyway (in anime/manga) , as they still have huge chests. an actual muscular woman is going to be way different looking than the average tiktok muscle mommy. i really wish there were more butch characters, but men will call that "tomboy" instead. seems like there's no way of winning this debate if someone is into that sort of stuff, i don't care but people need to acknowledge the flaws of it
@@hannajung7512 Men don't have a monopoly on being horny for women you know. Do you know how badly it fucks up young lesbians to be told over and over how only men would like tits and lesbian porn? Men don't even like it that much! I see what they call "lesbian porn" and it's all ffm threesome shit or conversion fetish fantasy. As yuri goes, a consistent 50% of readership are women in japan, and in the west it attracts so many trans women i doubt the number of male fans will stay that high when trans rights get better. Then for authorship, out of a random sample of 150 yuri authors 60% are women, 20% are men, and 20% are entirely anonymous so it's far from men writing for men (I can't link but search " Yuri mangaka gender database, 2024 edition "). On top of that, while research is relatively sparse a thesis in 2011 (Maser, Beautiful and innocent) found that straight men and lesbians in yuri fandom had very similar tastes with each groups top 5 favorite yuri being the same shows in different orders. And the 1 smut manga in the top 5, shoujo sect, was liked by men and lesbians basically the same amount. The men also liked the more LGBT focused and unsexy stories (Maria sama ga miteru, Aoi Hana) at the same rates. This isn't to say straight men and lesbians are the same, but the type of straight guy who likes yuri either will not be kept from fetishizing lesbians no matter how "wholesome" the story is or can just empathize with female characters and also won't be put off by wholesomeness or discussion of LGBT rights. We have to stop calling lesbians men just because we like tits. It's not male gaze if it doesn't involve men, it's MY gaze. Male gaze is about joining male audience with perspective character in the gentlest manner possible so he never has to worry about empathizing with a female character, and that does not work with lesbian stories that don't feature main men.
I'm tired of people dressing for other people. Why don't you wear what you want to wear? I guess there are some limitations, like appropriate dress for the weather or situation. But otherwise, please just do what YOU want! Express YOURself.
As the Hoe Math video put it recently, clothing is in the cabinet - a small factor that is dominated by looks and personality as far as attractiveness to men is concerned.
I’m a straight man, but I’ve seen a lot of these male repellent videos and found them cool as hell. A lot of them are very 90s inspired, very old school, and I dig that. That being said, it says A LOT about straight men and our modern society and culture that a ton of trends made by women (and gay people) revolve around not wanting the attention of straight men. I was raised by a single mom, so my brother and I see stuff like this and immediately think of our mom and the stuff she went through. Despite being a single mom, something conservatives claim is “undesirable”, she still got A LOT of attention from those type of men, no matter how she dressed or how she acted. I still think these trends are great: women empowering women and giving each other fashion advice. It may not deter ALL men that are pests, but at least y’all feel better and enough men that are the type to pester women will be put out and stay away. It may not work ALL the time, but it doesn’t have to. What matters is that you feel cool. Everyone should feel cool.
That's EXACTLY what I thought this trend was. A 90's inspired homage and it intrigued the Millennial in me. It lowkey kinda irks me that the trend itself is used in a manner of "countering the male gaze" as just opposed to rocking loose fit clothes because it feels comfortable or because it's trendy. Dressing in a way to garner or repel attention comes off as sheepish. People should dress how they like because it identifies them. I occasionally rock sports apparel or anime shirts because it reflects my interests and my likes and if I want to dress more closer to my age, I got Calvin Klein and American Eagle stuff for that. Simply put, dress how you want for YOU. I'd be damned if I'm gonna slap on something if I want to be seen or be invisible. I wear what I want. Also on another note, I don't put any stock on this trend repelling the "Male Gaze" because it's basically BS with a low rate of success. If a guy digs a girl, he's gonna shoot his shot.
Its a very small amount of men who harass women. This doesnt say anything about 'straight men'. Straight men arent a monolith and you got some internalized sexism and self-hatred to overcome if you genuinely think that way. Unfortunately, shitty rude men who harass others exist. Guess what, the types of dudes who sexually harass random women are also likely to violently harass random men as well. Its not a 'straight man' issue, its a trashy person issue perpetuated by a rude society that doesnt emphasize the importance of instilling and enforcing respectful social values. The only thing this says about our society is that the gender divide is worse than ever and everyone is looking for a reason to hate a perceived 'other side'. Im really just tired of it all, Ill see a video talking about mens issues and the comments are just men trashing women. Then ill see a video talking about womens issues and its comments are just women trashing men. everyone hates each other and is looking to point the blame at someone else, its so mentally draining
The thing that shocks me most about women's clothing is this: Imagine a typical jeans shorts cut on a man - impractical and skimpy. A bikini - where to tuck anything? And my labia certainly feels that. I cannot wear "regular" women's clothes since that revelation. Most are so strangely shaped... So I've basically been living in nice black maxiskirts with cropped T-shirts this summer :) Loved it
Are maxi skirts and cropped T shirts not “regular” women’s clothes? They’re so regular there have been fashion trend named after them that have repeatedly entered the cycle of popularity…
My only issue with this video is that women are the LEAST likely to ask “what were you wearing?” Who do you think asks that question ? MEN! So no I don’t like this video insinuating it’s women’s fault/ they’re somehow perpetuating rape culture when none of the women are setting out with these intentions. Hold men accountable for rape culture. These women are just defying fashion norms, but maybe the wording they use is unfortunate but then I remember that another woman is statistically less likely to blame me for getting raped or insinuate that it was how I was dressing.
I noticed that I get catcalled way less in skimpy clothes with spiky accessories, obvious makeup and bright short hair than when I was in a long dress with long natural hair and no jewelry or makeup It also helps to be stubborn and make a scene because creeps go after people who are perceived as vulnerable and scared to draw attention to themselves
Yeah, I feel like putting the onus on women to protect themselves from SA instead of culturally emphasizing respect towards women and restraint by men just sort of insists on the idea that men can't control themselves, and creates an environment where men feel empowered to do whatever they want, so long as they can rationalize how it was somehow the woman's fault. For me, personally, as a man, I find the idea that I'm just some senseless animal that the people around me need to cater their behavior to SUPER infantilizing, and the logical extreme of that infantilization is that people just wouldn't feel like they had any responsibility to control themselves.
As a cis guy who is queer, I must say I personally find the ladies in “man repellent” outfits shown in this video quite alluring, although possibly because some of the boyish outfits look like stuff I would wear myself
Unfortunately men are not a monolith, and it's not as easy as buying the right outfit or styling the right make up to avoid harassment (and framing it that way does feel victim-blamey). Men Repellent fashion feels like an attempt at profiting off of women's fears.
This topic is not about "men", but about "men who feel entitled to women, have a conservative worldview, low education and severly lacking self-control". Thats a much narrower subset of "men" and indeed those dudes are more likely to sharenfashion preferances than "men" in general.
I'm a dude and I prefer girls dressed "for the female gaze", but I deffinitely not harass or insist..... maybe it should be named "severely ineffictive harrasser repellant"?
A friend's personal anecdote that sorry blasts the "man repellent" idea outta the water. My friend shaved her head, and she had assumed men would be repelled by it. In all actuality men would touch her head, make comments about her shaving it, etc. Men, if they want to harrass women or feel entitled to them, WILL NOT STOP just because of aesthetic choices or fashion.
@@doltBmBThat is harassment. Unless you think going up to a stranger and touching their head unsolicited is normal? Be curious, but don't touch people.
One advice I've seen is if you're a bistander for a situation like that you should act like you know the victim and just start talking to them to make the harasser uncomfortable enough that they'll just leave
I’m a man and I never heard of male repellent outfit videos before. I find it horrible that women even have to think about stuff like this 😢 am I wrong to assume that it’s probably a very little minority of men who’re giving us a bad reputation? In my 45 years on this planet I never harassed anyone
I'm a straight male, 14 minutes into the video, and I haven't seen a single outfit yet that puts me "off". But man, I wish other men would just learn some manners.
And do you remember how openly women drooled over Henry Cavill, Jason Momoa and so and so being shirtless in their movies? Or that in strip clubs men aren´t allowed to dare touch the women but when women go to strip clubs for women they jump over the men, touch them everywhere and that´s more than ok.
I think one of the big things about this, is that why I support any individual woman (like Julia Fox, who I quite like!) saying that she no longer wants to dress for the male gaze, this “man repellant” fashion as a trend is only available and applied to women who already have societal approval. Fat women, queer women, Black women and Hispanic women have been dressing how they want for YEARS. It’s also the idea that dressing in general still has to be tied to the idea of “fashion” which in our culture is still racist and fat phobic.
I recently came across a comment of one of these videos. The commenter was 18 and of the mind that she is invisible to men. All I said was ‘it doesn’t matter how you think men see you, always be safe.’ Dress how you’d like, just be aware of your surroundings. That’s really all I’ve got to say.
12:30 for 99% of ppl they can never “dress for themselves” fashion is always saying something. *We’re born naked and the rest is drag* is an accurate statement. Even if you spend an hour choosing a fit in the morning or wake up and quickly grab something random from the hamper, whatever piece of clothing you choose to bring into your house is meant to say something outwardly
I'm about to watch the full thing but as a straight guy imma give yall a pro tip: The best man repellent of all is literally dressing SO HOT AND GORGEOUS that the guy thinks he has no chance. Yes that will only attract the most confident of bros but it will absolutely scare the shit out off 90% of guys and they'll feel utterly self-ashamed for even glancing in your direction (I'm not joking)
I believe the only way to prevent harassment from anyone is to change the social rules that are taught and upheld not change the way anyone dresses. I used to go out in the german goth scene a lot and I am still active in the goth and metal subculture. Here social norms are such, that as a woman you can be pretty much naked and harassment towards you would not be socialy accepted. Of course people still look, gothic festivals have a see and be seen character, but persistant staring is very uncommon and any kind of harassment will spark everyone arround you to move in and remove the perpetrator from the occasion. It is common that if someone is drunk and a bit to persistent in their flirting, for other clubbers to kindly ask if you need help telling them off. The reason for the german scene to feel that safe is not, that all goths are amazing, flawless saints, it is an unspoken contract that we try to keep each other safe and keep the scene respectful. So people who would show inappropriate behaviour learn not to follow those impulses, as their social enviroment tells them to reconsider and change their behaviour. And we still manage to be pretty naughty and sex positive xD
I don't know. I grew up being taught extremely strict and harsh social rules but it still seems that people are still acting out. I've always been taught that being a man means I'm forbidden from forming speaking to or forming any kind of platonic or romantic relationship with women, and that any kind of interaction with women should be avoided as much as possible as an inherent act of evil. As a result I try to avoid women as much as it's possible to do so I refuse to ever engage in friendships with women ever again. But other people keep breaking these rules all the time and even get angry at me for following them, and it makes me extremely confused. As another thing though, sex positivity is extremely horrible and has left me with a lot of trauma, it's seriously harmful towards everyone and shouldn't ever be encouraged no matter how safe you feel your environment is.
I don’t think I’ve ever felt safer than when I was in goth and/or kink friendly spaces. Granted I am not part of those communities but got an invite from some friends in those spaces. People think goths and bdsmers are scary but they are generally so much more respectful, and I think that unspoken (and sometimes spoken) social contract has a lot to do with it. It makes me feel hopeful and vindicated that even on a smaller subcultural scale, we having living proof that mass accountability can fight the effects of rape culture. And that it’s not the outfits or sexual activity that causes sexual violence.
The basic idea of hanging out in groups where people who misbehave are tossed out is valid and can totally work. On a broader scale though, I don't see how changing the rules would affect people who never cared about the rules in the first place.
Me-unshaven, militant*, protesting, vegan, lesbian: (◕‿◕✿) *I don't even know what they mean by this, but I'm just gonna assume "feminist, not the fun kind" and in that case, check!
as a lesbian i find this trend concerning. How am i going to know who i can approach if all the straight fems start dressing soo hot? Like, in one way getting to see more women wearing sexy outfits like these is good from a purely visual perspective. But its going to totally mess up the sapphic dating scene /s I jest. I love this. Women should 100% wear what they want and feel comfortable in. And even wear things intentionally to scare off men if they want to. Thats incredibly valid. It's just that soo many outfits shown as demonstration here are either things id totally wear or things that'd make me get all flustered if i met a girl out on the street wearing them ^-^. If youre straight and you wanna start doing this you might scare off men, but you might also start getting flirted with way more often by women :p
this idea of 'man-repellent' clothing deeply disturbs me. my mind immediately goes to how dangerous it can be. it enables victimblaming and could also be weaponised by male predators. this morning, i saw a tiktok of a lady telling a younger woman on the train that she's 'asking for it' while wearing 'revealing' clothing. absolutely abhorrent. clothing does not equal consent. ever. this false narrative needs to stop.
The argument has never been "clothing equals consent" It's "if you dress to attract people, you are more likely to also attract the wrong people" But it's still not applicable, as body language/ behavior will attract predators more than clothing. I just don't like when people misrepresent an argument
So this is basically another I am not like the other girls trend. I think it is great to empower people to dress like they want but also this teend like most empowered trends usually puts down those who do not agree with your choice. The idea that some clothes are "male repellent" means that those who do not dress like that are atteacting guys and can be used to justify their attention. If you do not want guys attention then dont dress for the "male gaze." I am not saying that is what moat of these people saying but I can see the logical end of this trend.
Finally someone has called out this stupid trend. These kept persistently popping up on my reels for a period of time no matter how much I blocked them. It's basically another form of misogyny in disguise.
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Ad read but make it seggsy 😮
No absolutely not. When i used to try to dress homeless, mire men pulled over to ask if i wanted to come shower or rat at their home, or if they could" help" me. Clearly not theor intentions except perhaps a few.
@@devorahrose782 And be careful of women offering help too. Traffic and all that, if y'know what I mean....
@@deltamico It doesn't.
I am from Egypt and I can tell you that even women who are completely covered up head to toe toe still get harassed by men. IT IS NEVER THE VICTIM’S FAULT
👍
Agreed!! Modesty actually INCREASES SA! It’s undeniable.
@@winxclubstellamusa I think it's more to do with culture over there.. lack of accountability and putting the blame on women to hold the weight of how a man views her based on how she dresses
@@JesusLovesEVERYTHING The two things go hand-in-hand. Modesty culture is born out of an obsession with physical appearance/sexuality and lack of respect for women as people outside of their physical appearance/sexuality. Same thing happens in "modesty"-obsessed cultures in the US or anywhere else in the world; just watch a few religious cult videos for examples. It's nothing to do with a particular religion or culture in the sense that we can pick on that culture as particularly bad, or whatever, and everything to do with how that religion or culture perceives and interacts with the (dangerous! terrifying!) concept of "women."
There is far LESS harassment in societies where the onus to not harass is put on the harassers rather than on women as temptresses, and--as a side-effect--women are basically "allowed" to wear what they like*. Public and even some private harassment happens purely because people (mainly men) feel licensed to harass by cultural norms; the end.
*Which is supposed to mean, "what they like" rather than "everyone dresses 'immodestly', 'modestly' or some other variety of clothing which is supposed to have an effect."
@victoriafisher1923 i find it interesting that your first sentence could essentially go both ways..
"American Western culture is born out of an obsession with physical appearance/ sexuality and lack of respect for women as people outside of their physical appearance/ sexuality." This in my opinion is true. Doesn't really matter what you do, but I'm against people (mainly men) who don't respect women regardless of their culture, brainwashing, upbringing or feelings towards them. If a man doesn't feel equally driven to protect a woman from an abuser or a rapist then they shouldn't allowed to be around women ever and I feel the same towards any man who has committed those acts.
But I feel like modesty culture can sometimes turn into deviance of sex, but that can also be said towards Western culture. Can't win for losing, I guess
If there was a way for women to dress to avoid sexual harassment we would have figured it out by now. 💀
EXACTLY 😭
Right?! I mean, a suit of giant metal spikes, maybe, but that would be heavy!
Not achieving a 100% success rate is not a failure. Different tools for different problems at different severities.
@@bannedmann4469 you mean wearing a suit of rotten garlic and eggshells would do the trick? You know. Lady Gaga Meatdress style
@@Freaky0Nina only if you have big shoes. Men are scared of those.
Otherwise you would get harassed. Just not the sexual kind.
This trend always reminds me of the haunting "what were you wearing" art exhibit. Sadly, there is no man-repellent
Yeah it's disgusting. It doesn't matter what she was wearing.
True, no matter what you do a man will want to fuck you. Such a horrid little existence that must be
I came to the comments to mention this. It’s actually quite heartbreaking because 99% of those clothes, when seen on someone out of context, would be “normal” (as opposed to the “asking for it” clothes
I remember those. It's awefull. Men will harm victims no matter their clothing.
@@LiteraryChic Even worse, a worrying and disgusting number of the clothes on that exhibit were clothes that were clearly for children….it’s just so horrid to know that whether it’s a a swimsuit, a nun’s habit or a 2 year old’s child’s onesie… it doesn’t stop these monsters from sexualizing us.
At this point, I've realized it doesn’t matter if I’m in a hoodie or a dress-some men will still act like I'm wearing a neon sign and harass.
Wait till you turn 30 it will all go away
It does not 😂 @@devinpeirce7152
They're taught that about Western women in their countries.
Let me guess - you're getting harassed by ugly guys?
@@devinpeirce7152 Sorry, but having worked in a service job for 3 years and seeing how many customers treated female co-workers: NO, age wont protect anyone from harassment. It may discourage some teenage boys, but otherwise older women face harassment equally often. Being less polite does help at least a little bit, as far as I can tell. An average looking woman in her late 50s wearing fully covered in over-sized clothes who introduces herself to customers and goes out of her way to be polite was far more likely to face harassment than a conventionally attractive woman in her early 20 wearing form-fitting clothes and make-up but only interacting with customers as much as absolutely necessary.
‘Was it really my fault?’ Asked the skirt
‘No, it happened with me too’ replied the burqa.
The diaper couldn’t say anything.
- Darshan Mondkar.
It's never been about the clothes.
what a cringe inducing comment.
@@shriderrad4123 Though, not quite as cringe as the intent behind your comment. Surely there are healthier ways you can garner attention? Perhaps, if you have any, ask a friend for a hug? Maybe that'll cheer you up. May the rest of your weekend not be as miserable.
This is (tragically) brilliant and succinct - despite what the other poster said 😕
@@shriderrad4123the cringe of not wanting to be blamed for being raped I guess 😑
@@dontbefatuousjeffrey2494 Indeed, it's a rather poignant quote that reveals the real underlying problem. I recommend checking out the "What Were You Wearing" exhibit for further evidence that clothing is neither a deterrent nor an enticement - it's gut-wrenching reading the descriptions and the ages of the victims.
I dress for the cow gaze.
That’s moosic to my ears.
Female graze ☘️
Lots of green I assume
ah yeah, let me graze my eyes on your emerald splendour... ;)
😂
from the tiktoks im seeing, i thought "man-repellent" would be a lot more... alternative. when i imagine man-repellent, i imagine aliencore, mall goth, spunky colorful almost clown-y makeup, just bold with the style. these outfits just seem to follow the conventional tiktok fashion trends but veeeeeeeery slightly edgier.
+ frankly, nothing could ever be truly man-repellent. being woman presenting and breathing (optional) is enough to be noticed, unfortunately
Yeah a lot of guys LOVE that shit lol. The "big tiddy goth gf" trope didn't form in a vacuum after all
@@saltiestsiren
Why anyone would think that's repellent is beyond me. It's a whole fantasy for many men.
The "man-repellant" will be a variation on the fashion trends they normally do, not a re-invention of fashion. Especially someone trying to survive on TikTok is going to be terrified of being too weird, (rather different from whatever their audience expects).
On the positive side, for every possible female style there are men who genuinely like that. Maybe he is hard to find, maybe he gets made fun of for liking the wrong thing, but he exists.
On the negative side, there are a lot of men who don't care about your fashion sense because they simply don't care about the personality you are trying to express...or consent...
mall goth isn't very bold tho
btw there are ways to be generally more man repellent even if you can't be a 100% but if you think that even soap don't eliminate 100% of bacteria...
as a butch lesbian who gets shit from men for wearing men’s button-ups and trousers this discourse goes wayyyy over my head. practically every woman in the videos are fully shaved, full make-up, form-fitting clothing, which is all valid but also like. you have to admit that appeals to men. girl if you are trying to repel men as a primary goal literally just don’t shave your armpits and most men will catch fire when they come within 10 feet of you.
also like nobody acknowledges the that some women wear sexually appealing clothes to attract other women.
i would dress sexy to attract other women. problem just being, I'll attract waaaay more men before I'd even find a woman. not worth the risk unfortunately.
not les but very masc presenting and enby and yeah, i can attest to this. they will indeed catch fire from being within 10 feet of you lmfao
butch les as well and even though i have a conventionally feminine face, i still hear nothing from men. i think the struggle is that most women still want to look pretty, and it sucks that women would have to give up self expression to not be harassed
yessssss and also, when I used to not shave my armpits i got harassed by a man that felt the need to tell me to shave them, so..... There's really just not one great solution, i feel like harassment is unavoidable.
omg!! you said it!! I didn't know why the whole thing made me uncomfortable... Thinking that modesty (or any form of clothing) deters men is senseless! Clothes don't stop men. Never have, never will. And thinking we can fix it by wearing something specific is dangerous.
yea. some men even find it MORE hot when youre modest because then its like a mystery or some gross shit 🤩🤩🤩
@@valentine.58 frfr, it's super gross.
Also it puts the responsibility on women again when it should be on men not to be harassing creeps.
I mean, when women in burkas are still affected, you know it's not the "modesty" of the clothing
@ironman_546Nobody says you can't dress up in a way that you personally feel more men-repellened in, they just warn that it's Dangerous to assume that it will Always work and keep you save, because No: men have SA'ed women in burkas and 'modestly dressed' women.
I find all this pretty funny (terrifyingly sad) because i live in the middle east and I have friends who dress in full Burqa to basically what western women wear and they ALL have stories of sexual harassment from men. ALL of them. Which pretty much proves it's not about the outfits.
Exactly!!
I have a theory that it's because the whole idea of a burka is to cover up as much of a female body as to "not be indecent" and "not tempt men". So by wearing a burka, a woman accepts the responsibility of male behavior, which in turn relieves them of responsibility for their actions. A man who believes he bears no responsibility or accountabilty for his actions and the harm he's done is simply more likely to act in those inappropriate or even criminal way, because "it's not his fault".
It's not the clothes that commit SA, it's the male mentality and entitlement and lack of self accountability. A large number of men aren't running around murdering and stealing right now simply because they fear consequences.
Watch how many of them turn under the promise of no consequences.
We have all the proof in the world but M will always deny all the facts.
Well.. that’s about a certain demographic of people. And certain cultures.. and a certain religion..
@@bannedmann4469if you’re gonna be realist at least have the balls to openly say it
I have not watched the video yet however my opinion has always been this. Talk to any Muslim woman that chooses to cover themself and they will tell you that no, being fully covered does not stop men from being pests. If men have eyes they will gaze.
A guy told me he was into hijabs
that's why the concept of a hijab is bullshit. it puts the blame of men's actions on women.
@@salmaabdullahgbthat’s so GROSS 😣
@@salmaabdullahgb thats so disgusting im sorry that happened
Exactly and I've received more than enough disgusting catcalls while bundled head to toe in bulky winter clothing to know this personally as well
I loved the comment about "catering to the male gaze" being a sneaky way to slut shame someone, while hiding behind the persona of being a woke feminist. I grew up in a conservative, Christian household and was told that I had to dress modestly, so that I didn't "cause men to stumble in their walk with God." For the longest time, I felt like I was personally responsible for making sure that men didn't have lustful thoughts, so I dressed carefully to make sure I didn't "tempt them." But the truth is that men will sexualize me no matter what I'm wearing. It's taken me a long time to understand that and unlearn the mindset that I was taught. Honestly, I still struggle with insecurity and shame relating to my body. So when I see the online discourse about "dressing for the female gaze", it just feels like one more way to control me and my body, only in different packaging. I'm not here for it.
Ah, it's "Alt" conservatism.
Now if only I actually knew what the fuck all these political terms meant.
The thing is, the "walk with god" is a walk of evil.
You're not causing them to stumble. They were gonna do that anyway, because that's what the "walk with god" is all about.
@@Nerobyrne That is a lie.
"men will sexualize me no matter what I'm wearing" Being not neutral sexually is somehow natural as this can be why humankind is still here. But it is up to you if you enhance the pressure or not. So. those who told that were basically right. And you are right if you do not want to overdo the right principle - but you are not right if you leave it out of consideration or if you think that its exaggaration - especially in your own soul - meant any possiility how a right principle can be thought of or applied in practice.
It is a matter of degree. A nun and Megan fox with a miniskirt are 2 different levels
I think the problem you'll run into is that the weirder you dress to repell men, the weirder the men you'll attract.
Yep taste differs but some men be weird regardless
So unfortunately true, although I have had some men approach me just to ask what kind of clothes they are with genuine interest and to tell me they like my outfit. Very nice dudes. But also yeah... some total freaks.
maybe we're not trying to attract any men and its about repelling them, pay attention
@seabrain1212
I mean you could just go back to "cut off all penises" i think at this point thats probably the consensus.
But the weirder they are the fewer of them there are.
The only thing I've ever found that deters men is...aging. I had a baby face and looked like I was 20 well into my thirties, and it didn't matter what I was wearing -- I might as well have been a piece of ambulatory meat. It was only once I started looking like an actual adult that the way people (not just men, sadly) changed -- I went from constant condescension and dismissal to suddenly being regarded as a person worth listening to. Ironically, I have far more self-confidence in my 40s than I ever have before, because now I'm allowed to move through the world as something other than an object. I no longer feel like I have to dress to completely hide my body. (It probably helps that I have buff arms and no tits.)
Yes - I'm also in my 40s and have experienced the same.
So grateful you shared this comment ❤️ Its my experience as well, and its epic tbh
I'm 36 and I've been dressing the same for the past 15 years (for day wear) and now I'm invisible
Women should start changing up their makeup to make themselves appear older 😂
I am a petite woman with a pretty face in my early 30s and the condescension and dismissal is real. I have a wide range of experiences and treated like a child.
I always thought Robin Williams' description of lesbians as "women in comfortable shoes" was cute on so many levels
Also so incorrect because I can show you a lot of gay girls who dress in heels etc
@@annaagapova3583 ever heard of a metaphor?
18th Century would say "efficient women"
Older women wear more comfortable shoes, too, therefore age makes us extra lesbian.
*obviously a joke, but now I'm curious. A Google search said "No, the percentage of women who identify as lesbian decreases with age". I'm oddly disappointed.
As a straight guy, I find some of those "men-repellent" or "female gaze" styles way cooler than the "male gaze" ones. Taste is subjective, jerks will keep being jerks, dress as you want.
Edit: I genuinely think the reason why the woman at 11:45 is never approached by men when wearing this is because they consider her way out of their league, she looks too awesome
Yeah I feel like it’s a stupid mentality to have, just wear what you want people are going to be assholes anyway. Dressing good makes you feel good, we shouldn’t shame women for dressing “appealingly” and on the less talked about flip side women who don’t dress or behave “appealingly” shouldn’t be assumed to be trying to disgust men or make a political statement.
Also bruh I saw the TikTok at 11:45 on my fyp and was soo confused, like that outfit is soo ethereally beautiful and divinely feminine. Men are probably trying to not approach her because they thing she is a goddess who might smite them. Like nothing about her outfit strikes me as “weird” “crazy” or “quirky”
I heard some esoteric mooing outside my window, and knew Tara had to have posted. This is the earliest I've been to a video! Thank you to the cow for alerting me!
This made me chuckle, thank you for the chuckle
Do you think we'll ever hear mooing and "Flight of the Valkyries" and Tara will just be flying through the sky on a herd of cows?
@@TaraMooknee Honestly in my opinion to discourse around the female gaze is homophobic basically there saying that if you like women especially feminine women you are male or a deviant. I don't lnow if you know this but it's something to think about. I'm a femme lesbian that likes other femmes so what does that make me, male gaze or the female gaze ?! Do you see how it excludes gay people, just a thought?!
@@TaraMooknee I'm honored I could make you chuckle, I've loved your channel for years and you always make me laugh! 🥰 Your commentary tends to be really balanced and you discuss serious subjects without it being too heavy. I also love that you're passionate about animal welfare, and the pet shout outs always make me smile. Thank you for existing on this platform!! 💖
@uniquechallenges2478 As I understand it, the male gaze is about how a patriarchal system favours traditional male perspectives which often includes objectifying women. Whatever type you have, if you see women as complex human beings while finding them attractive and are able to personally relate to their experiences (which probably you do since if are a woman yourself), I don't think you qualify at all for the male gaze by definition.
The male gaze is about the male spectator, it's not about how the observed woman looks.
(Please correct me if you think I am wrong or If you have different thoughts on the topic.)
I started wearing a particular alternative fashion style a few years ago. It's frilly and hyperfem and doesn't show much skin or figure. Basically, it's peak femme gaze.
Never in my life have I been catcalled as much as when I wear that style. It's almost like harrassment like this isn't always about attraction but about power. They see me clearly not dressing to be attractive and they go "Let's bring them down a peg"
Unfortunately, no matter what we do, we can't guarantee safety from men because ultimately it's not our choices that lead to harrassment, assault or rape, it's the offender's choice to harrass, assault and rape.
So yes: dress in what makes you feel nice, but never let your guard down or let the clothes give you a false sense of security. Because it has never been about the clothes.
"it has never been about the clothes"
☝ ☝ ☝ ☝ ☝ 💯
Used to wear EGL all the time, very similar, *especially* when we were in a group. People get rowdy when they're uncomfortable with people taking up space.
I think it’s also got to do with the fact that you’re simply standing out. to men, anything that catches their attention for whatever reason, wants to be catcalled/asked out/harassed etc. like when a woman with a big bust walks outside, it’s because she wants men to stare at her, and not because she’s just a woman with big boobs that she can’t leave at home
Exactly!!! The only thing that would work is disguising yourself as a man. Men do not catcall because they're attracted to you. They do it to assert power over you.
I think some of it is a mindset. I recently moved from a larger city to a small conservative/religious Mormon town. I hadn't gotten cat called or commented for years (not since my 20's), and suddenly, I'm getting comments all the time (I'm in my 40's). I have a theory that conservative and religious cultures are so much more body-obsessed that they will make comments about others without even realizing (or maybe they do) how inappropriate it is. And sometimes more modest fashions incite more curiosity and more obsession than more showy ones. Living in a culture that is so much more obsessed with modesty and bodies has been harrowing in the sense that you just can't make them stop. There are entire tik toks and youtube channels dedicated to Mormon "modesty" (or how to get around it), and some of the comments about local teen bodies (particularly girls) in some of our online community forums are sickening. Honestly, I think the more conservative someone is the more obsessed they are and the more likely they are to make stupid, inappropriate, and unwanted comments.
What's frustrating about these trends is they still put the responsibility of violence against women on women, when it's men who need to stop harassing women and be more proactive about calling out other men for shitty behavior.
The second part! Men need to start calling out other men when they harass women! It`s so accepted. I saw it even in friendgroups with a lot of great men, they wouldn`t call out one of their guys groping women.
Calling other men out could put that guy in harms way and escalate the situation. Most guys are more willing to get physical with other guys before they hit a woman.
like, i wanna come up with some stupid generalisation on women that is on the same level as how "men" are categorised here to illustrate how stupid this feels, but i honestly can't come up with something as dumb as this without feeling like a fraud.
I know i will get the "we dont mean all men, just the bastards" gaslight treatment, but that is bs.
If i went around calling "women" shopaholics or whatever you would NOT give me the benefit of doubt that i only mean the girlies with 250 pairs of shoes.
@@anthill1510 then how are they "great" tho?
@@travelerfinder7840 1st: Their own friends don`t call them out. They wouldn`t attack their own friends.
2nd: In most situations even if it`s not a friend men don`t get into physical danger calling other men out. (workplace, harassment on the street in daylight, etc.)The only situation where that would even be a possibility is in a club or something like that.
3rd: In case you are in a club you can inform the bouncer / guy at the bar that another men is molesting women, you don`t have to intervene yourself. They will take the complaint more seriously if a man complains, so that helps.
This is not about men being afraid to get into physical danger, this is about men not wanting to be seen as the spoilsport, not wanting to loose some buddies at work because you stepped out of the bro-culture, not wanting to stir the pot, not wanting to have that uncomfortable situation where they actually have to hold another man accountable.
Sometimes I dress for me. Sometimes I dress for other women. Sometimes I dress to repel men. Sometimes I dress for male validation. I don’t really see anything morally wrong with any of it.
100%!! All depends on my mood lol
Real
Then you see nothing youre blind sheep
The misandry is evident 😂 you're unwilling to casually admit you do in fact dress for men. Instead you sort of slide it in as "male validation" as though just dressing for men is taboo. Ironic considering the entire point of your comment was how it's perfectly fine to dress for anyone. Still, I'm glad to see at last someone is pushing the boundaries of the feminist eco chamber. You're at least suggesting it's ok to dress for men, even if you're uncomfortable saying it.
Realest comment
As a gay man I was like “why don’t these guys think these clothing are attractive? I think they look fucking amazing” and then I realized lmao
Same, Bi here.
The Male Gays are definitely into it! :D
As a straight man we like what we like
@@LayneBenofsky I genuinely thought, for way too long, that everyone was talking about dressing for the "male gays" like that was bad and I was very confused because that is exactly who I want to compliment my outfit lol
Lmao I like this interpretation much better. @@no-one.in.particular
I was walking home from work one night in baggy cargo pants, a large pea coat, and a beanie. All you could see was my face and it was a dark street so you could barely see that. A man walking in the opposite direction hardly glanced at me before blurting out a pickup line. He had milliseconds to clock that I was a woman, but that’s all he needed. That type of guy doesn’t care what you’re wearing, you are nothing but female parts to them. They’re not thinking any more critically about the situation.
I replied back to him “Do you know how scary it is to be a woman walking in the dark and have a stranger try to come on to you? Don’t be like that!!” He was kinda stunned, muttered a sorry and I kept walking. I am grateful he wasn’t violent, I think most of them aren’t, but that doesn’t mean it’s not a possibility.
Fair enough.
Then u woke up
@@blub-tf6rt I don't know why you doubt that story, seems pretty common to me
Men actually like you. And like you've said the vast majority of them aren't even violent (even though they have absolute power to overpower you at any moment they wish) Oh the horror!
@@mattmattmatt131313 so your point is pick up lines towards a single woman alone in the street at night is something she should be happy about?
As a lesbian, I find all sorts of those quirky, creative, multi-layered or boxy outfits really fun and flattering. I feel like they immediately tell me something about the woman's personality and preferences and sometimes they look like art. But I will admit, maybe because I live in a christian and conservative country, I can't tell whether I'm genuinely not attracted to very feminine/"natural" looking women (long un-dyed hair, popular styles of make-up, clothing straight out of celebrity insta, long nails etc) or whether I've conditioned myself to avoid them because they're usually straight as compared to alt girls. The next thing we gotta study is the anti-gay gaze haha
Tell us more! I was hoping for more discussion about this type of gaze, what women see and like on other women when men aren't in the picture at all...but it gets crowded out by conversations about what men do or don't like
Bi lady and I feel the same way. I don't believe it's conditioning-- I think we have preferences, just as any other person does. I prefer for people (men and women alike) to not feel like they've been copied and pasted into real life from a Facebook ad or something. It feels fake. It seems harder to fake an outfit that the wearer has put clear thought and effort into, which ends up being more artsy, sometimes unconventional, and thusly more "real". And that tells me they're less likely to try to hide themselves in favor of what they think "other people" will like, which is too tiring for me to deal with when it comes to a friend or partner. I just got over that myself-- that sort of influence would be very tiring for me
Might as well revert to the Victorian or tutor levels of clothing
as a pan woman i definitely am guilty of correlating these fun fashionable and aesthetic outfits with someone's sexuality, sometimes completely subconsciously - if a woman dresses in a very stereotypically feminine way, i will assume she is straight; the odds are generally in your favour hahaha, but it isnt fair on the women don't fit into that box... i suppose women who are interested in women do tend to dress in a more alt way? a discussion of the anti gay gaze is such a shout hahaha
Straight old woman here. The idea that an expression of the actual person is what repels men is an interesting thought. Men just want a blank they can impose themselves onto. A blank to reinforce themselves.
I think you've touched on something essential here that about half of my female friends get: people are individuals and what they fund attractive is individual.
My husband finds comfort highly, if not the most, attractive. I have a brother that really digs the night club looks. I have female friends that prefer dramatic, business-y looks on whatever people they're attracted to and female friends that love anything ornate.
Theoretically, we have so much historical and cultural fashion knowledge at our fingertips and far less (certainly not zero) physical labor to do every day that we could, ideally, wear pretty much whatever we want and look however we want to look. But, when we put so much emphasis on trying to attract or detract any particular "gaze," any and all comfort, sense, or sensibility can really fly out that window real fast.
There's so much more that could be said about dressing for such a vast variety of reasons and sort of philosophies on it, but I'll just leave that here and say thank you for your video.
One time while visiting an elderly relative, he informed me that my skirt was slightly see-through (you could see the outline of my legs in certain lights) and I was like "yeah I know", he asked if I was concerned about any attention I'd get and was really surprised and thoughtful when I told him that I get more harassment when I'm dressed more traditionally modest and feminine so it didn't really matter to me.
Some people are disrespectful and entitled and nothing is going to stop them from doing what they do, so you should just wear tge stuff that makes you comfortable and happy
and yet, not a single thought of concern for the people that don't want to be sexually harassed by the outline of your legs ever entered your selfish mind I bet
Good of him to give you a heads up just in case, and to listen, it seems. More of this energy.
I really like that you educated him in a nice tone judging by his reaction
I’ve heard fashion history TH-camrs talk about this as well. It def a problem
I had a discussion once with a male friend who was saying that catcalling and street harassment is more common if you look or dress in a sexy way (loved him giving his opinion on women's experiences, but sure). I responded that I got catcalled / harassed on public transport for the first time when I was 12 - I remember it vividly because I found it incredibly humiliating, and I was with my mum who later told me I couldn't wear the skirt I was using anymore, which made me very sad because it was my favourite skirt. I then asked my male friend if he thought a 12-year-old was very sexy and that's why men started me harassing me publicly by then. He looked very uncomfortable and later admitted he was wrong and apologized.
Although you may catch more attention wearing some clothes rather than others, there is no way to completely avoid men's harassment. Harassment like sexual abuse is about power, so no matter what you wear it can happen to you, since sexual harassment is not really about you, but about them.
Same, the time I received the most catcalling, I was barely a teenager...
Recently, I've been catcalled while wearing a black abaya/ long, wide dress...
@@mioni42 yeap, same for me. I'm 31 now and I haven't been catcalled for a while. When I was a teenager, though, it happened pretty often
But he wasn't wrong, you just successfully build your argument in a way that if he disagrees with you he must be into children. 🙃
From what I learned, the harassment starts when you hit puberty and then the frequency reduces over time. Which means that to the cat-caller you are 'woman enough' to be objectified but young = weak enough to not fight back.
I don't know if cat calling is ever done to genuinely hit on someone or only to punish women for showing themselves publicly, but obviously the less you wear ('sexier') , the more you show, the higher the incentive to punish you.
(Same correlation with degree of curviness, the more womanly features you have, the more you have to hide in order to not be punished.)
@@John-cd9ji What is your source of catcalling being done to punish women? Your own experience? Have you been catcalled or are you a catcaller, John?
If you've ever been catcalled, you might have observed that it is often done when men are with other men, because the objective is to show off their own masculinity. Nothing to do with punishment, and nothing to do with the woman or little girl who is catcalled, as she is just used as a means to appear strong and masculine in front of the guys.
@John-cd9ji he was.
Catcalling happens regardless of clothing.
You've said it yourself.
Those men look for someone they think can't fight back.
Catcalling younger children (than 10) is just harder because they're usually accompanied by an adult....
Tara is right that there are no guarantees, but I’ll never forget going out the morning after I shaved my head for the first time. I had about a 30 minute walk to my classes and not a single man I passed would even make eye contact with me. There is not a single outfit that has made me feel as invisible to men as a buzz cut did. I felt the freest I ever have rocking a buzz cut at the bar. My hair is long long now, but I think about shaving it off quite often just to feel free like that again.
and then you meet a guy who likes short hair on girls and then you have to get a wig, right?
@@omniphage9391 not wanting to be harassed by men in your daily life is not the same as not wanting to date men ever. I dated some really good guys when my head was shaved. They were guys who wanted to get to know me, they never made me feel pressured into anything I didn’t want to do, and I genuinely think it was an extra layer of defense in situations like frat houses that we know have made many women uncomfortable and downright unsafe. I’m straight, and I like men a lot, but that does not mean I want to be harassed on transit, drugged, assaulted, or have any other experience with a man who can’t respect my time, boundaries, and autonomy.
I had similar experience. The only look I met where full of compassion ( I think they thought I have a cancer)
omniphage: why are you so antagonistic?? Rejection also exists, make a potential partner date the real you, not the fake one. Even then some guys are into shaved girls, there no thing 100% of men (who are into women) like...
@@lmcb8447On mobile, you can tag someone by tapping on their comment.
On pc, there's a little comment box icon thing you can click. Under or to the side of their comment.
Yesss im so tired of seeing "male gaze" misconstrued as meaning "what men find attractive". Can we please retire this use from fashion discourse and call it "dressing to defy patriarchal beauty standards" or something.
We cant dress our way out of being objectified and denied agency
That's a fight worth dressing for
An older man once made a pass at me while I was delivering his mail. I was soaked in sweat, had my hair pulled back, and was wearing almost no makeup, a dirty t-shirt, and knee-length cargo shorts. Men harass women because they feel like it, not because of what they're wearing.
Hair pulled back no makeup is a definite up. Especially compared to the opposite, we'd rather have that than some stupid fancy hairstyle and cakey makeup.
@@akale2620 I describe being harassed and your response is essentially "yeah I bet you looked hot?" What the fuck is wrong with you?
@@akale2620 no one cares what men like...
Wait so is a man approaching a women harassment
@@ZalemMoon Yup, that's there's so many makeup companies, singles events full of women, and hordes of articles in women's magazines about catching a man.
The Bechdel Test does not look agency, it just look for women's existence. Agency is the sexy lamp test.
Yeah and just saying the bechdel test was about lesbians and the lack of rep they get
What is the sexy lamp test?💡 Please explain, I need to know more about it!!! ❤️
@@juliawnuk3644 Can you replace what a character does in the plot with a stationary object? If so, you got a sexy lamp.
@@juliawnuk3644 from what i remember, it's pretty much what it says: check if the woman could be replaced by a sexy lamp and if it would change anything to the narrative. if it doesn't, congrats, your woman character has no agency
@@frogblehfrog143 Addition not disagreement: I believe it was specifically a test of if Bechdel could 'safely' imagine the characters were lesbians. Isnt talking about dating a guy, is interacting with another woman. Therefore the women could be a couple.
Im a fat woman who was a fat girl and so this is like anthropological research for me because in general I don't get male attention even if I want to.
Whether I wear baggy clothes or tight clothes, my body is always considered "wrong". None of the women in this video have a body that looks remotely like mine in any way.
I remember when I was younger and I got whistled at on the street I was so shocked and happy. And wow, that's sad.
yeah… I was walking down the street this weekend and this dude yelled to his friends, “you see this lady in the ice cream shirt, she’s, like, a five!” and they all laughed. but as a fat person I kind of wanted to flip my hair a bit and be all omg he thinks I’m a five! 😂😅
The problem is not that women get too much male attention but that there is large inequality in who is getting male attention
Based on my personal experience and things I have been told by other women, I can tell you that no, you aren't automatically safe if you're overweight or clearly morbidly obese. Maybe there is a point at which most women are considered too big for most men, but it must be a fairly high weight.
135 kilos at a height of 165 cms doesn't cut it, for example.
@@camelopardalis84I’m 5’9” and 350 pounds and totally gray and wear glasses and 54 years old, and massively depressed, and the thing I consider when I am planning for any day I need to walk to the bus stop and ride a bus is: is any part of my ensemble really striking in pattern or color or design or decoration? Is my lipstick too fancy? Am I in any way just plain visually noticeable, even in the abstract, or just one piece? If so, I need to be on my guard because men will be all over me IF they see me. Not men I am interested in; much older, or way too young, whom I am assuming want my presumed money (ha!). If I am just in comfortable, generic clothes, my body and age are an instant cloak of invisibility. So often I put makeup on at my destination, and save my fun, extravagant, quirky things for when I am in a group. I am not saying this to brag - no one has been interested in me as a human being for decades now. But as a TARGET - for harassment, for solicitation, for “Oh she must be super-desperate, I bet I can score” - all they need is to see you. If you exist, as a woman, in their sight, they feel you are making yourself a target. How dare you be out in public? Even old fat women. It is NOT about anything as pleasant as attraction.
As an overweight, middle-aged, non-passing trans woman, I never get that sort of attention. From a practical standpoint, I guess that's good. But on the other hand, I would like to experience it, at least once in a while.
As an average cis male, I really don't think the clothing is the problem with unwanted attention. Some men are just immature pests that would harass a walrus mascot if they thought there was an attractive female inside.
Cis male😂
Youre getting a rainbow cookie for proper terminology
@@zenkaitp4644 I'll return the favor with a grammar cookie for the use of "you're" instead of "your". High five!
@@Lazirus951 cheers einstein
I don't even think the looks of the woman in the walrus costume matter that much. There are many jerks who would harass Gollum's grandmother, especially when they are drunken.
Speaking from personal experience: absolutely fucking NOT. Whether I was in my oversized and comfy pajamas at school before they changed to dress code or the near floor length skirts and flowy tops I wore when I was in the Jehovah's Witness Cult or when I'm on the move in my workout gear and now age appropriate clothing, I have had men, Creepy or Sane approach me. It is what it is. It's just something that we as women have to deal with so wear whatever you want when you want and don't overthink things.
@@MusiciansRule07 culturely it is accepted for men to "shoot their shot" . Creepy old men will tend to approach herass young girls. Because there is no punishment for that.
But appearance does and will always matter.
*we as _attractive_ women
(Trust me, us others don't)
I think if there were more opportunities for men to not have to make the effort with every even vaguely attractive woman to get a date, it probably wouldn't be that way. As it stands, any guy stupid enough to wait for a woman that seems receptive, he's going to die alone without any kids.
Yep, pretty much, but I get a ton less dressing like a story book witch 🧙♀️ 😉 lol
I feel like I'm going insane over here as a man. I have spoken to a lot of guys about their taste in women, and no one so far has cared about clothing. Best you can get is a vibe, like "modest" or "sporty" but these are more about attitudes than fashion (to men). Outfits are never, ever a deal-breaker, but make-up and hair CAN be. All these social media women talking about fashion have never spoken to (straight) men about this stuff, and why would they? It shows, though.
These women want male repellent? Asymmetrical makeup. Artificial hair dyes, applied in streaks that dry out the hair. Over-use of bold makeup in general, especially metallic or high saturated colors. A vaguely disgusted facial expression at all times. Too much perfume, or none at all. Women and men find the same things attractive, and are both capable of poor taste. Few things are truly, universally unpleasant, and they are unpleasant to women too. Male repellent isn't "bad" fashion, its being ugly, intentionally, inside and out! If a woman cares about her appearance enough to watch fashion advice to scare men away, that woman has already failed.
Or just try to look like another man, that one is foolproof. Short hair with a hat, men's clothes, no makeup at all, and sunglasses at all times. If all else fails, nothing is less appealing to men than the end of a pistol.
So bascially it's dress like the quirky British sister or cousin in a Rom-Com.
I actually like the sound of the quirky British sister 😂
It doesn't matter what you wear, nothing stops people from putting whatever message on you they want. Thank you for pointing out the slut shaming issue here, we really do criticize and side eye eachother over everything and I'd love it if more of us could recognize we grow up around misogynistic messaging so we all have internalized this to some degree, unlearning that is an ongoing thing and this discussion is v much part of it
I just want to say I really love your video's as well! Thanks for your hard work!
Yesssss!
Misandry
I used to have "man repeller" clogs (RIP, my MALE dog chewed them up....) but men would come up specifically to tell me how ugly my shoes were and then stay and chat. Women actually told me my shoes were cool and looked really comfy.
whatever im unintentionally doing to repel men definitely is working
😂 here here!
Same! And it better stay like that✊😤
Being above 40 or overweight usually does the trick. I am overweight and 38, working on it.
@@anthill1510 good luck
It’s called being unattractive
I find the idea of "man repellent" outfits really strange personally... Dressing in relation to what men "don't want" still grants a strange amount of power to the preferences of men, and still bases decision making around those expectations. Not to mention that a lot of these outfits are just really cute... I understand that beauty standards being repurposed for something other than the service of patriarchy is productive, but it kinda seems like maybe beauty standards just shouldn't be projected onto people at all in the first place. Maybe this is what the first step towards that looks like? It seems like engaging in a cultural gender war with misogynists just kinda plays into anti-feminist rhetoric when perhaps the issue could be sidestepped. At the end of the day I'm an outsider looking in tho so I guess this take should probably be taken with a grain of salt.
While the goal should be to wear just what makes you happy, on the journey to finding yourself being contrarian on purpose, with "ugly" styles, "anti-fashion" styles or "man repellant" styles can be important steps. By breaking up the norms you wear raised to conform to and find security and validation in you can learn how it feels to present this way, learn about your own comfort in clothing and about realistique reactions of your environment (because the truth is, that there is no way of dressing, that will actually "keep man away", at best you can choose which type of men will react more frequently. And when you realise that by dressing contrarian you start to be open to really find your own style, that expresses who you want to be in public, and not what you think is expected of you.
Of course this is not the only way of doing things, but it is one way.
@@hannajung7512
I think what you write is important to note! Wearing what pissed off or weirded people out most helped me get comfortable in wearing what I can wear (sensory issues) even if it's not as fem as I'd like to...
I agree with you that it`s still dressing in relation to men and that is still a kind of a prison. If you really want to be left alone and that is your priority than it`s worth taking mens reaction into account, though. There is no way you will change the world or men over night, so accomodating to reality it is.
I don't think that's a valid criticism. We're fighting against male oppression and a society that caters to men, that's why people want to wear clothes that repel or even offend them. Its a statement against oppression.
True, but to land in the middle something usually veers to one side first. So this is the first step needed to make people more aware.
I'm chronically ill so I dress up whenever I leave the house to celebrate getting my own groceries or getting blood tests. I don't wear punked-out ball gowns anymore but I still do it up. I'll dress up for my solo dance parties too. I've collected vintage for decades. I'm wearing it for me.
i vibe with that.
Sounds freaking awesome. Stay cool fellow chronically ill person
WHAT?! A punked-out ball gown?! THAT'S SO FREAKIN COOL
Me too! Leaving the house at all is a special occasion for me, so I go all-out.
I dress for the weather
Scrolled for minutes, carefully combing thru to find this comment to like it after yt flashed it in the comment bar
Same.
17:55 that story reminded me of the time i took the train home from a convention, in full unsexy male character cosplay (we're talking cowboy hat, binder, drawn on beard, heavy contour makeup) and a man over twice my age chatted me up and wouldn't leave me alone. truly, they're working so hard to counter the "what was she wearing?- mentality all by themselves...
A lot of gay/bi men like effeminate looking men and masculine looking women. Girl in male cowboy look kind of hits both of those at once.. Of course its no excuse for that kind of behaviour - some people are just pests (or creeps).
@@baguettegott3409I think you meant hot? Lol but true
@merliiiinn Ah yes the They, the 50% of the human population you just lumped in with the creepy older guy with a thing for women's facial hair. Great reasoning there. But i guess you're just venting and this a channel for the sisters. I'll have you know i come on channels like this sometimes and the things women say about men in general on here is not entirely endearing. We all have a burden to bear.
@@raphaelmohr1965 What, and the things men say about women when we aren't around are "entirely endearing"? Please. This is nothing. The women in these comment sections are still way too kind about men in general.
@@raphaelmohr1965 Ah yes, "the women" who you just treated as a monolith as well. Not the serve you think it is. If you feel spoken to/about by my comment, maybe some self reflection is in order...
I've always found this trend slightly annoying because all of it seems so arbitrary. Some men like "tomboys", some like women who dress up like medieval elves, and some like it when you dress up like a rainbow. The Japanese fashion trends Lolita (not related to the book) or Gyaru stemmed from a desire to not conform to strict gender standards within the culture, but both groups still get sexualized and objectified by men.
What these women are doing is mostly harmless but I feel like it's also pushing the idea that there is a right way to protect yourself from men by dressing a certain way, but we know from history that there is no perfect solution to getting harassed or worse.
This! When I was younger I used to dress in a way to try to repel people (everyone) away from me but in hindsight all I did was highlight how vulnerable and broken I was, and you can imagine what kinds of people that is attracting.. It's best to accept that you are always going to be attracting someone so you should dress in a way that makes you feel confident and shows your personality/interests, that way you attract similar people to yourself.
Well... You're kind of playing it "not all men" there. I get it as a "from now on, i'm gonna wear whatever i want to and not what i think men would want me to wear" (men as in the archetype you've personnally built)
@@apieryt2694 ??? If you're taking what I said as a defense of men, I have no idea where you're getting that from? I'm just saying there's no perfect way to stop harassment.
@@parasaurolofun i'm sorry about the misunderstanding, i just meant that you're applying the same logic when it's not about that, at least from my perspective.
I believe the -men part of -man repellent- outfit is directed at every so called red pill guy or incel or whatever woman hating gent there is thinking he's still got a say in what women should be wearing. It's not about stoping the harassment really it's more about relieving some of the mental charges about dressing a certain way that's not the way you'd like. and that's why it seems arbitrary.
The same goes for "i'm not like other girls" syndrome, every girl is not like the other ones (obvsly), it's just that we've been led to believe by medias that girls (and women) were'nt dimensionnal, if not only physical possessions to the men
It's arbitruary because it's subjective, as long as we decide it's that way, it is.
(I'm not sur if I'm making any sens, it's not my native language)
@@parasaurolofunjust because you think you don't need it eases the emancipation of certain women, (and that's a good thing) it's a boost in the confidence of some leading them to a slightly less stressfull life
Ive found that the louder my outfits are (no matter how modest or immodest) icky men leave me alone. My clothes are very bright, frilly and flowy. My lipstick half the time is green or blue and I have glitter under my eyes. I dress to be happy that’s it and I think the confidence makes them uncomfortable.
I would say that this is the crux of it, but there are exceptions to every rule.
I've had unfortunate reason to learn that some men ( _especially_ conservatives ), will seek out a leftist woman for a partner (often lying about himself in order to entrap them), rather than a tradwife wannabe...because their internal desire is ultimately to dismantle and sabotage and gaslight and control their woman in order to feel powerful...and so, doing that to a woman who DOES want to exercise agency and autonomy feels more satisfying to them than dismantling a woman who was looking to "submit to" and "obey" him from the beginning.
This describes my experience, I kinda feel like I look like an "easier target" in the low effort outfits that the icky men would consider "normal" cause I look like I don't have much of a personality or standards or I am probably desperate in their heads
@@stavroulagiannari59 absolutely. When I dress down I get approached a lot more.
Interesting. That could explain some things. I dress in a way I consider very feminine, even hyperfeminine. But yes, it tends to involve things like an elaborate, frilly dress that's the color of Pepto-Bismol.
As a trans woman with lots of male friends I can testify that, yes. Most men are easily scared by hyperfemininity, particularly when presented with confidence, have no idea why.
As a Muslim woman who practices modesty, can I not just exist anymore at this point 💀
Don't give up sister it's all a test, think of paradise
Honestly, I'm very grateful for this video. I've been struggling a bit lately with questions of, "Am I dressing for men? I don't feel like I am, but... am I?" and this was the quiet reality shock of, "just wear the clothes you like to wear!"
I did go out in clown inspired makeup recently and I felt genuine so powerful. I want to try do more over the top makeup, in the past I've only saved that stuff for special events, but it felt really nice to put a sparkly heart on my cheek and make my eyeliner look like a butterfly
YASSS 🙌🙌🙌
and even if you were dessing for men so fucking what? it's not anti-feminist you're not hurting any woman it's neutral it' the point is having self awareness and agency not guilt and overthinking every thing you do dress however you want babe
@@nanomia I think part of why it bothered me is because I'm a lesbian and since I'm not even *attracted* to men, the thought I was maybe actually dressing for men felt so... invalidating towards my own sexuality, I guess? Like, the idea that I was subconsciously making myself presentable so I'm appealing to people who I don't want to find me attractive felt poorly.
I know it's not the point of this video, but Tara's gorgeous face shape is definitely not a woman repellent for sure
I’m BLUSHING
@@TaraMooknee Kekeke then I'm glad! I went back to delete it, worried I sounded like a creep. But it's true
Not to say that Tara is necessarily man-repellant, but I'd believe you if you said she was because she's such a woman-attractant!
Certified woman here, FULL CONCUR.
And the way she enunciates her words so clearly! Makes me so hot 🔥
A man repellant outfit is the Knight of Thorns set from Dark Souls. No man will get close to you if you wear that.
even though i might get stabbed i think it's hot. women in armor make me weak in the knees
Pyromancy time
Are you sure about that?
These are the REAL secrets that the LOTHRIC KNIGHTS will never tell you!!!
Didn't stop Maneater Mildred :(
As a full-fledged scary Goth, I've been harrassed while standing next to my DAD. No amount of weird clothing or intense makeup will stop harassment.
My Gramma wore baggy sweaters and jeans not only for my whole life, but for my mom's whole life. She always wore beanies, so we all have beanies that we call our "Gramma hats". I've never questioned her femininity.
Now that I'm older, hearing people argue about whats a "woman", I'm just like "wtf is going on? Why can't people wear clothes?! 😭
My grandmother rocked stripes. She loved striped pattherns.
Love this
"I didn't retaliate because you just don't know what could happen." I felt this 😭 "Why weren't you more aggressive?" "Why didn't you tell him off?" Because some people are dangerous when they're angry? Because I've experienced that first hand? Because my brain has switched to survival mode and I'm trying my darndest not to make the guy mad because I DON'T KNOW what could happen?
I distinctly remember being 21 and taking an empty evening train. A drunk guy decided to sit next to me, blocking me into the window. He made small talk for a bit, and eventually asked for my number - I told him I was going to my boyfriend's house (true). He didn't keep asking for my number, but he also didn't leave, and all I could do was try and diffuse the situation by keeping things light and chatting. At one stage he asked to take a picture with me (????), and I pulled an "oh god please help me I'm being held hostage here" smile as he took the picture.
I would like to think sober him, or his friends, saw that picture later and were embarrassed by it. I can dream at least 🙃
@@Whitepawprint That sounds so stressfu 😩 It's so true though, sometimes diffusing the situation is all you can do. Like, personally, I'm not that tall or heavy set, so me fighting an entire grown man is probably not going to go well, I'd like to avoid that if at all possible please. I know women who could, but I don't think that's me.
It’s worth considering that this is also a concern for any other men that may be present who might want to intervene on your behalf. Whilst many of us would brave it out, not all men are good at violent confrontation and nobody wants to get their ass kicked or worse to save a stranger a few moments discomfort.
Probably a bad example but it’s not uncommon for guys to intervene when witnessing a guy hitting his girlfriend only for them both to start attacking the guy.
There was a situation on a bus in the u.s. recently when three guys, one of whom was ex military, stood up to a man who was being abusive to two Muslim women. It ended with all three getting stabbed, one was killed on the bus, one died of his injuries on the way to the hospital.
@@zappasmoustache23 I mean, sure, I wouldn't really expect strangers to stick their neck out for me in a potentially dangerous situation, regardless of their sex or gender.
My point was moreso that any time people are asking, of a scary situation, "why did that person do x" or "why didn't that person do y," the answer is probably because they were scared. And my response to anyone saying "well they should have done this" or "they shouldn't have done that" is, you probably would have behaved similarly had you been there 🤷
Watched a video not long ago about how the 1700’s trend of bringing the waistline high up made men angry because they thought everyone was pregnant- Same vibe
Perfect :'3
Or the 14th century sideless surcoat which sent society into fits because it showed the kirtle underneath. I think men being offended over what women wear is a hobby😒
I'm STILL unclear as to whether or not all women are dressing for themselves, for other women, or to satisfy oppressive male opinions. Because we all know that all women have the same motivations all the time.
Yeah, is not like humans were different from each other.
To quote one of the great poets of our times:
"I don't dress for women
I don't dress for men
Lately I've been dressing for revenge"
I was thinking about that the whole video.
My problem is why are they dressing for or against anyone. Just dress for yourself. who cares how you're wearing. Also it also feels like it demonizes women who do like wearing "male gaze clothing". god I hope you address this in your video because that's all I'm thinking about
Dressing for other people is just as legitimate as dressing for yourself. Heck, dressing to attract others is legitimate. Anything from expression to uniformity can be represented in fashion and that’s okay.
Female gaze? How about female GRAZE? 🌿🐄🐮 Amoo-sing video BTW
16:40 I have been harassed in my most man repellent clothes. its absolutely a myth that modest clothes will make u safe from harassment.
My take on it, I believe that trend makes them more of a target than if they were just wearing casually fitting clothes. Some dudes are gonna make a move on you if they want to, even if you were wearing a hefty trash bag.
I think it’s interesting that every woman that was used as an example of man repellent/female gaze content was skinny & overall pretty conventionally attractive. I don’t know exactly what that says about the content or our culture as a whole, but I feel like it says something
What it says is that attractive people are more likely to attempt to monetize their looks on social media. Or that attractive people will just be more successful on social media.
We know for sure that social media algorithms are often biased towards stereotypically attractive people and that many people are too. I imagine that likely influenced the clips tara put in the video as she probably just searched for the most popular clips on this theme.
Pretty people get the clicks.
To add to the above comments - the less conventionally attractive you are the more you're expected to put in "effort" and bend over backwards to conform to beauty standards. People considered attractive are allowed to "get away" with more alternative clothing without so much bullying and shaming
@@Darm0k which is also the male gaze, i assume. When these women make videos for women, they get more success because they look more conventionally attractive to men. IT ALL MAKES SO MUCH SENSE AND IS INTERNALLY CONSISTENT TO THE POINT OF PERFECTION
the male gaze female gaze tiktok trend is genuinely laughable because all they do is very slightly edgier makeup or flowy clothes instead of bodycon clothes. but like it's all 100% shit i've seen straight men say they find really attractive. it's still objectifying. it's like tiktok thinks the difference between the male gaze and female gaze is being one dimensional and sexy or one dimensional and cute. when both of them are just being objectified and the actual female gaze in film is about just not objectifying everyone in the first fucking place.
right, I watch those tiktoks like... do you genuinely. GENUINELY think that a straight man wouldn't like that. as if men aren't literally obsessed with sundresses, don't dm "intimidating" insta baddies, or there aren't whole sections of the internet dedicated to thirsting over tomboys and alt girls.
Right on -- I think you hit the nail on the head re: that these trends are two sides of the same coin of objectification. An issue is when the supposed "female gaze" utilizes the same, patriarchal visual language & assumptions as the "male gaze," thereby serving the same patriarchal master & reproducing the same patriarchal status quo.
objectifying? how is it objectifying? do you actually believe women are objectifying themselves? I live in a muslim countries where women wear hijab and burka and men still objectify women so much because a man that believe women are inferior than men WILL NOT respect woman no matter what she wears a bikini or a burqa. why we women keep siding eyeing each other on everything? I never hear a discussion about men's clothes but women's clothes? ALL THE DAMN TIME. let women live we all have our personal preferences. sorry but your comment reeks of misogyny.
@@fbrown9861Men liking something is not really a problem. If some of them didn't behave like cavemen everybody could wear and like whatever. Catcalling cavemen aren't the same demographic as some people with more niche and less-mainstream taste.
Why don’t supermodels ever complain about objectification ? It’s always the plain women with nose piercings and shirt blue hair ?
As a fairly butchy lesbian i can confidently say that all men are not attracted to one type of woman. You would think that sometimes looking more like them than they do would turn them all off, but it turns out that there are a few out there that don't go for the feminine look!
Yeah, I remembered a youtube short where a stud was just walking outside in a neighborhood and dudes were still trying to pick her up. There is no real way to avoid the male gaze, especially if you are fairly attractive.
This whole video has been a colossal waste of my time. Once I saw a research (I think it was in the context of p**n) on what type of erotic fantasy het men and women prefer and turns out men prefer the “girl next door” type while it’s women who go for the hot guy, tall, muscular and lookalike of their favorite Hollywood actor.
Seems to me these women expert on the ’male gaze’ are projecting.
Lmao, I am the man who disproves that theory. I'm sorry.
Let's not pretend that an attractive woman wouldn't look cute even if she copied the wardrobe of Super Mario.
pansepot1490: not all women are into the 50s-Hollywood type and not all men are into the girl-next-door type. The video is about what is societally thought of the male and female gaze,on stereotypes. Also not surprising since plenty of women are into the 50s-Hollywood type when the movies lots of them grew up with usually had the beautiful unattainable prince charming as the main character's partner at the end .
I was into the very good looking rich boy (as a kid), and I did watch those movies,then I changed types(and most romance genre is very cheesy with that type of guy so I no longer watch the genre), though not all ppl change tastes over time (nor all have their tastes affected by exposure).
I feel like a lot of these "man-repellant" outfits are very "out there" and likely to draw more attention tbh. I'd think the actual strat would be to dress as generically as possible to just blend in with the crowds... but that only works in places with lots of other ppl.
precisely why i've only worn black/dark grey and dark blue for years now 😭😭
Not to be man going um actually; but my quip for male gaze is: it's not a look but a way of looking. Any *aesthetic* can be seen with a male gaze.
Any body can be male-gazed: like the action movie focus on lead's ass or abs: that's male gaze! Its cutting up the body for consumption as object of desire, it is the dehumanizing, the erasing of a person to an aesthetic sentiment...
Then again reducing people to aesthetic sentiments is wildly lucrative so
If you've ever spent any amount of time in a gay club or on grindr you'll get an idea of what men look like through the male gaze. The gay community has a huge problem with body dysmorphia for this exact reason.
Well said!
So when men gaze at women's features that's the male gaze. And when women gaze at men's features that's... also male gaze?
@@Caleb6000 yeah. It just gets named after men because of the composition of the hegemonic power structures. If women had been socially dominant the the style would be named after them
"Then again reducing people to aesthetic sentiments is wildly lucrative so" specially when they are this willing to participate
I very much agree with this video. In my personal life, I have had good experiences with "male repellent clothing," before it was called that. While I was in college, I lived down the street from a whole cluster of bars and nightclubs, and it was scary walking by at night sometimes, because you were very likely to be harassed if you looked fem-presenting. It was comforting to waer certain things, because frequently, when men would turn to look at me, instead of catcalling (or worse) they'd just look taken aback and keep right on turning. But, policing what other people wear because it isn't what makes you feel good, is the exact opposite of what this kind of awareness should be. You, and everyone, should dress in a way that makes you feel safe and happy. Someone else wearing something you don't personally like isn't an inditement of their character.
The biggest thing that drives me nuts about “men repelling clothing” discourse (aside from the gender essentialism and heteronormativity) is the fact it focuses on the wrong thing- the issue is not that men are attracted to certain clothes, it’s that many men assume their attraction is owed attention.
Like you mentioned, no matter of dress is gonna stop All Men. And as a transmasc myself, I find a lot of alternative “men repelling” fashions super attractive! I wear goth and lolita regularly myself! I’m sure plenty of cis men out there like it too! But if I find someone, especially a stranger, around me attractive I keep that shit to myself!
This is just another case of people putting the responsibility on women’s personal choices rather challenging the things society teaches men about treating women.
Thank you for calling the underlying heteronormative and borderline homophobic tones of this trend. It's so easy for do many leftists to get caught up in gender/bio essentialism because they never stop to think about queer ppl existing
Omg, yes. Why can't men find a woman attractive and then JUST KEEP THAT INFORMATION TO HIMSELF. Does he think I don't know I'm attractive or something? Does he think I care what he, random man #1, thinks of my looks? If I cared what he thought I'd also have to care what every man on Twitter who calls me ugly thinks. I don't.
@@laurie_guilbeauis it bad to compliment a person's outfit? Like wasn't the main issue how people tend to go about it?
@@pioneershark2230 I think they mean more specifically comments on their physical attractiveness-there being a big difference between saying “that’s a cute dress” and “damn you’re hot”, the latter of which is (for most people) more inappropriate coming from a stranger.
General complements on outfits are pretty harmless but I think often times cis men aren’t taught the difference (or care to learn, depending).
@@horobinota yeah, that makes sense
Good video. I've been thinking a lot about this lately, zooming out, basically the conclusion/final thought; being perceived. Accepting the fact that it's out of our control is SO HARD. I hate it! Letting go, remembering to just dress and present as myself to myself, remaining authentic, is the (my?) power move. And it's also a privilege to be able to do that.
I don't care about female or male gaze. If I am in the mood of wearing a dress with a huge cleavage, I will wear it. I'll be judged by both men and women. I'll be judged no matter what I wear, so why not feel hot and make myself happy?
Female gaze can only be applied to media and fictional characters. The moment ppl chose to apply it to real life, it stopped making sense. Real women can make choices, a character in a scriptt can't.
One of the only mentally sane comments here
When a man says you just haven't met the right one, just say "You know what - you're right! And I still haven't." Lol.
Fart sound.mp4
also the thing that makes me mad is this notion of "the female gaze." ???????????? yeah sure language can evolve etc etc but the entire point of the male gaze is that it's an academic term used to refer to the ways in which women are portrayed in media and how that affects women's self-perception (and men's perceptions of women) in the real world. and these tiktok people hought it'd be a good idea to co-opt that language for "this is what girls like🤗☺"
Yeah I’m not sure why this comment doesn’t have more attention. The male gaze is like an ever-watching eye in the lives of many women. The point isn’t to add another gaze, it’s to remove the gaze in the first place. We are not for consumption, and in this context, the male gaze is describing a willful and forcible consumption of our bodies in any form. “Male fantasies, male fantasies, is everything a male fantasy?” [yes]
I don't see why there shouldn't be an opposite to the male gaze. Women have their own "problematic" ways of viewing things. If there isn't already, it would be interesting to see a study about it.
yoooo same. Thank you for undoing the spell of "I need to change how I dress to reduce male attention outside". I knew that's not how it works intellectually, but sometimes you just need someone to work through the obviously incorrect implications. I started wearing shorter skirts and long socks now in my 30s and I feel so much happier than baggy (still comfortable!) clothes as a teenager and young adult. Partially a controlling environment where my mom and stepdad called me a 'whore' as a 'joke', then miraculously became a 'virgin' after meeting my now-husband, but whatever.
People will barf their trauma onto anyone else before they admit change has the potential to make them happier and go seek therapy.
l'm speaking as a man but like... The whole idea of the male gaze as used by tiktok and shit is so unhelpful. Like, it's so far removed form its useful origins as a critique of cisheteronormative patriarchal standards limiting perspective in film to just be generally essentialist nonsense that doesn't actually grapple with systemic issues. But hey, pop psychology did the same shit with Narcissism, depression, anxiety, OCD, etc so i cant exactly be surprised.
I just hate the way ppl are misusing "male gaze" everywhere. It was about the agency given or barred from female characters in fiction, not about girls looking sexy. The sexiness is incidental to the male gaze, a female character could be fat and hairy in baggy jeans and a band tee and she's still male gaze if she's sidelined by the story and entirely lacks agency compared to the male characters, and a different female character could be in stripper heels and bikini armor but if she's a driving force of the plot and has interiority as a character she isn't male gaze. There are other critiques for those that don't involve assigning attraction to women as a male thing, which is a stereotype that really fucked me up as a baby lesbian.
As for fashion? If we're applying the original idea of male gaze to it, you literally cannot stop men from using their "male gaze" on you. If they don't see women as people with interiority, that isn't gonna change if you put on baggy sweatpants.
And if we're gonna reverse male gaze into female gaze, the quintessential female gaze art form is yuri manga where men either don't exist or only exist on the side lines. A man in the female gaze is a nameless faceless boyfriend who only exists as a 10 second phone call while a woman is fucking his girlfriend lol
the important factor is not only agency in the story, but agency in the presentation of the moment. Is the woman in question depicted as a complete human with emotions, ideas etc. or is she just a projection of the viewers desires and thoughts.
The easiest reckogniseable way is of course the objectivication and sexualisation, but the opposite can be the case, too. When the image of the woman is used for other forms of projection, like depicting her only as a mother, especcially with a boy child in the center (I would argue Mother Mary is very much depicted with a male gaze almost every time).
It is important to reckognise, that even a character that has agency in the story, can be portraite by the camera with a male gaze by turning her into an object of desire or disgust in the way she is filmed. Almost all "strong women" characters in 2000's action films and video games are like that.
and no, the manga scene you described is not female gaze, it can be still male gaze. At least usually. Because it is still a male fantasy, and the girls are drawn mostly to be attractive to men and in situations that serve as projection for male desire.
@@hannajung7512 I think you just don't understand what agency and interiority mean here. While you can't control the interpretation a viewer has, if a female character is given interiority and agency in the story she is by definition not just existing as a stereotype. The "strong women" stereotype you refer to is a distillation of this. While they in theory have agency, 9/10 times they are side characters that defer to men on most fronts and whose only characterization is not like other girls bullshit. There's also very often a male self insert following her around even if she's the MC specifically to act as the gaze of the audience, to make it easy for men to insert themselves into the story without having to empathize with a female character. When a "strong woman" character doesn't do this, she's fine.
most of yuri readers are actually men believe it or not. they also like this entire "tiktok muscle mommy" thing (my partner does for example)... good for them i guess?? lmao. most of these muscular women are still anatomically incorrect anyway (in anime/manga) , as they still have huge chests. an actual muscular woman is going to be way different looking than the average tiktok muscle mommy. i really wish there were more butch characters, but men will call that "tomboy" instead. seems like there's no way of winning this debate
if someone is into that sort of stuff, i don't care but people need to acknowledge the flaws of it
@@hannajung7512 Men don't have a monopoly on being horny for women you know. Do you know how badly it fucks up young lesbians to be told over and over how only men would like tits and lesbian porn? Men don't even like it that much! I see what they call "lesbian porn" and it's all ffm threesome shit or conversion fetish fantasy.
As yuri goes, a consistent 50% of readership are women in japan, and in the west it attracts so many trans women i doubt the number of male fans will stay that high when trans rights get better. Then for authorship, out of a random sample of 150 yuri authors 60% are women, 20% are men, and 20% are entirely anonymous so it's far from men writing for men (I can't link but search " Yuri mangaka gender database, 2024 edition ").
On top of that, while research is relatively sparse a thesis in 2011 (Maser, Beautiful and innocent) found that straight men and lesbians in yuri fandom had very similar tastes with each groups top 5 favorite yuri being the same shows in different orders. And the 1 smut manga in the top 5, shoujo sect, was liked by men and lesbians basically the same amount. The men also liked the more LGBT focused and unsexy stories (Maria sama ga miteru, Aoi Hana) at the same rates.
This isn't to say straight men and lesbians are the same, but the type of straight guy who likes yuri either will not be kept from fetishizing lesbians no matter how "wholesome" the story is or can just empathize with female characters and also won't be put off by wholesomeness or discussion of LGBT rights.
We have to stop calling lesbians men just because we like tits. It's not male gaze if it doesn't involve men, it's MY gaze. Male gaze is about joining male audience with perspective character in the gentlest manner possible so he never has to worry about empathizing with a female character, and that does not work with lesbian stories that don't feature main men.
I'm tired of people dressing for other people. Why don't you wear what you want to wear? I guess there are some limitations, like appropriate dress for the weather or situation. But otherwise, please just do what YOU want! Express YOURself.
Dear women, it's not the clothes it's the wearer. Men complain they don't like makeup but makes an exception when it's a pretty woman wearing it.
As the Hoe Math video put it recently, clothing is in the cabinet - a small factor that is dominated by looks and personality as far as attractiveness to men is concerned.
I’m a straight man, but I’ve seen a lot of these male repellent videos and found them cool as hell. A lot of them are very 90s inspired, very old school, and I dig that. That being said, it says A LOT about straight men and our modern society and culture that a ton of trends made by women (and gay people) revolve around not wanting the attention of straight men. I was raised by a single mom, so my brother and I see stuff like this and immediately think of our mom and the stuff she went through. Despite being a single mom, something conservatives claim is “undesirable”, she still got A LOT of attention from those type of men, no matter how she dressed or how she acted. I still think these trends are great: women empowering women and giving each other fashion advice. It may not deter ALL men that are pests, but at least y’all feel better and enough men that are the type to pester women will be put out and stay away. It may not work ALL the time, but it doesn’t have to. What matters is that you feel cool. Everyone should feel cool.
That's EXACTLY what I thought this trend was. A 90's inspired homage and it intrigued the Millennial in me. It lowkey kinda irks me that the trend itself is used in a manner of "countering the male gaze" as just opposed to rocking loose fit clothes because it feels comfortable or because it's trendy. Dressing in a way to garner or repel attention comes off as sheepish. People should dress how they like because it identifies them. I occasionally rock sports apparel or anime shirts because it reflects my interests and my likes and if I want to dress more closer to my age, I got Calvin Klein and American Eagle stuff for that.
Simply put, dress how you want for YOU. I'd be damned if I'm gonna slap on something if I want to be seen or be invisible. I wear what I want. Also on another note, I don't put any stock on this trend repelling the "Male Gaze" because it's basically BS with a low rate of success. If a guy digs a girl, he's gonna shoot his shot.
Its a very small amount of men who harass women. This doesnt say anything about 'straight men'. Straight men arent a monolith and you got some internalized sexism and self-hatred to overcome if you genuinely think that way. Unfortunately, shitty rude men who harass others exist. Guess what, the types of dudes who sexually harass random women are also likely to violently harass random men as well. Its not a 'straight man' issue, its a trashy person issue perpetuated by a rude society that doesnt emphasize the importance of instilling and enforcing respectful social values.
The only thing this says about our society is that the gender divide is worse than ever and everyone is looking for a reason to hate a perceived 'other side'. Im really just tired of it all, Ill see a video talking about mens issues and the comments are just men trashing women. Then ill see a video talking about womens issues and its comments are just women trashing men. everyone hates each other and is looking to point the blame at someone else, its so mentally draining
The thing that shocks me most about women's clothing is this: Imagine a typical jeans shorts cut on a man - impractical and skimpy. A bikini - where to tuck anything? And my labia certainly feels that.
I cannot wear "regular" women's clothes since that revelation. Most are so strangely shaped... So I've basically been living in nice black maxiskirts with cropped T-shirts this summer :) Loved it
news flash, men and womens bodies are shaped differently, more at 11
Are maxi skirts and cropped T shirts not “regular” women’s clothes? They’re so regular there have been fashion trend named after them that have repeatedly entered the cycle of popularity…
What is the pay distribution between you and the cow? If she only has a coin, are you paying her a fair wage for her work?
My only issue with this video is that women are the LEAST likely to ask “what were you wearing?”
Who do you think asks that question ? MEN!
So no I don’t like this video insinuating it’s women’s fault/ they’re somehow perpetuating rape culture when none of the women are setting out with these intentions.
Hold men accountable for rape culture.
These women are just defying fashion norms, but maybe the wording they use is unfortunate but then I remember that another woman is statistically less likely to blame me for getting raped or insinuate that it was how I was dressing.
Cultures with more modesty have more SA than liberated cultures, because modesty culture IS SA culture!! Modesty does NOT make us safer!
it doesn't make women safer, but it does enable men to not take responsibility for ourselves. so no wonder it leads to higher SA
Do you have any concrete evidence/data?
I noticed that I get catcalled way less in skimpy clothes with spiky accessories, obvious makeup and bright short hair than when I was in a long dress with long natural hair and no jewelry or makeup
It also helps to be stubborn and make a scene because creeps go after people who are perceived as vulnerable and scared to draw attention to themselves
Yeah, I feel like putting the onus on women to protect themselves from SA instead of culturally emphasizing respect towards women and restraint by men just sort of insists on the idea that men can't control themselves, and creates an environment where men feel empowered to do whatever they want, so long as they can rationalize how it was somehow the woman's fault.
For me, personally, as a man, I find the idea that I'm just some senseless animal that the people around me need to cater their behavior to SUPER infantilizing, and the logical extreme of that infantilization is that people just wouldn't feel like they had any responsibility to control themselves.
@@IonelaD.-wz9si
Women in burka's get raped
As a cis guy who is queer, I must say I personally find the ladies in “man repellent” outfits shown in this video quite alluring, although possibly because some of the boyish outfits look like stuff I would wear myself
Quiet
Unfortunately men are not a monolith, and it's not as easy as buying the right outfit or styling the right make up to avoid harassment (and framing it that way does feel victim-blamey). Men Repellent fashion feels like an attempt at profiting off of women's fears.
Bingo.
This topic is not about "men", but about "men who feel entitled to women, have a conservative worldview, low education and severly lacking self-control". Thats a much narrower subset of "men" and indeed those dudes are more likely to sharenfashion preferances than "men" in general.
I'm a dude and I prefer girls dressed "for the female gaze", but I deffinitely not harass or insist..... maybe it should be named "severely ineffictive harrasser repellant"?
A friend's personal anecdote that sorry blasts the "man repellent" idea outta the water. My friend shaved her head, and she had assumed men would be repelled by it. In all actuality men would touch her head, make comments about her shaving it, etc. Men, if they want to harrass women or feel entitled to them, WILL NOT STOP just because of aesthetic choices or fashion.
that's not harassment, that's curiosity
men existing near a woman is defined as harrassment these days
@@doltBmBThat is harassment. Unless you think going up to a stranger and touching their head unsolicited is normal? Be curious, but don't touch people.
@@aspectacle5589 Seriously. If they think touching a stranger is just "curiosity," I sincerely hope they are below the age of 2.
@@l6318 you invented the stranger, idiot
Shaving your head won't help. It's not the head we want to f**k
can we please not let tiktokers take film theory terms and apply them to real life?
Either that or apply every film theory concept to real life
I apply it to art and media.
Yes, can we please not let tiktokers.
One advice I've seen is if you're a bistander for a situation like that you should act like you know the victim and just start talking to them to make the harasser uncomfortable enough that they'll just leave
I’m a man and I never heard of male repellent outfit videos before. I find it horrible that women even have to think about stuff like this 😢 am I wrong to assume that it’s probably a very little minority of men who’re giving us a bad reputation? In my 45 years on this planet I never harassed anyone
unfortunately, yes, you're wrong! the silver lining is that amongst the backdrop of horrid men, a good man stands out more.
@@danisaurrusmaybe stop going out like an Idiot at night and choose a peaful life results speak for themselves
as someone who has no sence of what is "fasionalble' I have given up. I put on whatever I feel best in and call it maximalism. Works every time
I'm a straight male, 14 minutes into the video, and I haven't seen a single outfit yet that puts me "off". But man, I wish other men would just learn some manners.
fr
And do you remember how openly women drooled over Henry Cavill, Jason Momoa and so and so being shirtless in their movies?
Or that in strip clubs men aren´t allowed to dare touch the women but when women go to strip clubs for women they jump over the men, touch them everywhere and that´s more than ok.
@@justicierodelaliga Does the worst member of another group justify anything that you choose to do?
@@justicierodelaligayou must be horrified in the streets given how sexy you seem to look, I can only imagine how scared you are every day 😔
Maybe you’re the gaze. Did you think of that?
I think one of the big things about this, is that why I support any individual woman (like Julia Fox, who I quite like!) saying that she no longer wants to dress for the male gaze, this “man repellant” fashion as a trend is only available and applied to women who already have societal approval. Fat women, queer women, Black women and Hispanic women have been dressing how they want for YEARS. It’s also the idea that dressing in general still has to be tied to the idea of “fashion” which in our culture is still racist and fat phobic.
I have to disagree I have seen many fat man being fashionable
I see a pretty dress and I buy it. That's pretty much as far as my thought process goes.
Thanks for putting together all these outfit inspos! :D I loved it.
17:22 always answer "you haven't met the right man either" like how can you realllly know you're not a gay man??
I recently came across a comment of one of these videos. The commenter was 18 and of the mind that she is invisible to men. All I said was ‘it doesn’t matter how you think men see you, always be safe.’
Dress how you’d like, just be aware of your surroundings.
That’s really all I’ve got to say.
12:30 for 99% of ppl they can never “dress for themselves” fashion is always saying something. *We’re born naked and the rest is drag* is an accurate statement. Even if you spend an hour choosing a fit in the morning or wake up and quickly grab something random from the hamper, whatever piece of clothing you choose to bring into your house is meant to say something outwardly
I'm about to watch the full thing but as a straight guy imma give yall a pro tip:
The best man repellent of all is literally dressing SO HOT AND GORGEOUS that the guy thinks he has no chance.
Yes that will only attract the most confident of bros but it will absolutely scare the shit out off 90% of guys and they'll feel utterly self-ashamed for even glancing in your direction (I'm not joking)
bruh 😂
I believe the only way to prevent harassment from anyone is to change the social rules that are taught and upheld not change the way anyone dresses.
I used to go out in the german goth scene a lot and I am still active in the goth and metal subculture. Here social norms are such, that as a woman you can be pretty much naked and harassment towards you would not be socialy accepted. Of course people still look, gothic festivals have a see and be seen character, but persistant staring is very uncommon and any kind of harassment will spark everyone arround you to move in and remove the perpetrator from the occasion. It is common that if someone is drunk and a bit to persistent in their flirting, for other clubbers to kindly ask if you need help telling them off.
The reason for the german scene to feel that safe is not, that all goths are amazing, flawless saints, it is an unspoken contract that we try to keep each other safe and keep the scene respectful. So people who would show inappropriate behaviour learn not to follow those impulses, as their social enviroment tells them to reconsider and change their behaviour. And we still manage to be pretty naughty and sex positive xD
I don't know. I grew up being taught extremely strict and harsh social rules but it still seems that people are still acting out. I've always been taught that being a man means I'm forbidden from forming speaking to or forming any kind of platonic or romantic relationship with women, and that any kind of interaction with women should be avoided as much as possible as an inherent act of evil. As a result I try to avoid women as much as it's possible to do so I refuse to ever engage in friendships with women ever again. But other people keep breaking these rules all the time and even get angry at me for following them, and it makes me extremely confused.
As another thing though, sex positivity is extremely horrible and has left me with a lot of trauma, it's seriously harmful towards everyone and shouldn't ever be encouraged no matter how safe you feel your environment is.
I don’t think I’ve ever felt safer than when I was in goth and/or kink friendly spaces. Granted I am not part of those communities but got an invite from some friends in those spaces. People think goths and bdsmers are scary but they are generally so much more respectful, and I think that unspoken (and sometimes spoken) social contract has a lot to do with it.
It makes me feel hopeful and vindicated that even on a smaller subcultural scale, we having living proof that mass accountability can fight the effects of rape culture. And that it’s not the outfits or sexual activity that causes sexual violence.
The basic idea of hanging out in groups where people who misbehave are tossed out is valid and can totally work.
On a broader scale though, I don't see how changing the rules would affect people who never cared about the rules in the first place.
Me-unshaven, militant*, protesting, vegan, lesbian: (◕‿◕✿)
*I don't even know what they mean by this, but I'm just gonna assume "feminist, not the fun kind" and in that case, check!
Ur a bad bitch don't forget that
as a lesbian i find this trend concerning. How am i going to know who i can approach if all the straight fems start dressing soo hot? Like, in one way getting to see more women wearing sexy outfits like these is good from a purely visual perspective. But its going to totally mess up the sapphic dating scene /s
I jest. I love this. Women should 100% wear what they want and feel comfortable in. And even wear things intentionally to scare off men if they want to. Thats incredibly valid. It's just that soo many outfits shown as demonstration here are either things id totally wear or things that'd make me get all flustered if i met a girl out on the street wearing them ^-^. If youre straight and you wanna start doing this you might scare off men, but you might also start getting flirted with way more often by women :p
So you harass women. Nice.
this idea of 'man-repellent' clothing deeply disturbs me. my mind immediately goes to how dangerous it can be. it enables victimblaming and could also be weaponised by male predators. this morning, i saw a tiktok of a lady telling a younger woman on the train that she's 'asking for it' while wearing 'revealing' clothing. absolutely abhorrent. clothing does not equal consent. ever. this false narrative needs to stop.
The argument has never been "clothing equals consent"
It's "if you dress to attract people, you are more likely to also attract the wrong people"
But it's still not applicable, as body language/ behavior will attract predators more than clothing. I just don't like when people misrepresent an argument
Reavealing clothing = L
No proper man wants a 304 like that bring shame back!
classy always wins
That depends on what revealing clothes mean
It's always interesting to think about what I would wear if I wasn't going to be perceived by anyone but myself.
Gosh what a dream
So this is basically another I am not like the other girls trend. I think it is great to empower people to dress like they want but also this teend like most empowered trends usually puts down those who do not agree with your choice. The idea that some clothes are "male repellent" means that those who do not dress like that are atteacting guys and can be used to justify their attention. If you do not want guys attention then dont dress for the "male gaze." I am not saying that is what moat of these people saying but I can see the logical end of this trend.
Finally someone has called out this stupid trend. These kept persistently popping up on my reels for a period of time no matter how much I blocked them. It's basically another form of misogyny in disguise.