I've seen plenty of cases in old solid-state gear where the silk screen markings on a board are incorrect and so when you find a capacitor that appears to have been factory-mounted backwards and it's not exploded, perhaps only slightly bulged which could just be from age or heat, only the voltmeter probes on the capacitor connections can tell you for certain. Whenever I make an assumption it usually turns out to be wrong and I regret it afterwards.
Love your longer form content. 15 minutes is perfect, but sometimes even a 30 minute one makes for some great evening relaxation while learning a thing or two. Keep it up. Don't read too hard into your analytics, it's a recipe for unhappiness. You already got to 32K subscribers with 30 minute videos after all, so somebody must like it :-)
I watch start to finish no matter the length of the video. Sometimes I may have to step away and come back to it but that has nothing to do with my attention span. I don't do this type of work and doubt that I ever will but I still learn from it. Thanks for showing us.
anyone else feel like a giant Do Not Buy According To Lyle spreadsheet would be a really useful thing to have to refer to at this point? seems like it's way too easy to run into a dud especially if you're hunting for a used 'bargain'
Holy Moly, good timing! I am expecting a new board to ship next week. I'll be inspecting that new board and looking for these factory mistakes mistakes. Thanks for the information.
Come on Marshall! From a retired player/enthusiast who loves the DSL sound and my DSL-1 head and combo...yes I own both, I'm so disappointed. There's a distinct difference between design and production mistakes, however their seems to be a combination of both to my limited knowledge of either. Ultimately though, Marshall has elected to put their name on this and so their reputation as well. I've proudly owned and revered their 1959x and 1987x four input models. Actually, the 1959 was a four input/output model. {I previously thought it was the 1987x, my bad}. They were both from the mid 1970's. My 1959x came with the Marshall 8x10 guitar cab.. A beast to be sure. I want a DSL-20 but think now I'll just wait and enjoy my PRS Hendrix 20. It handles pedals well so I can get it into JCM800/900 territory if need be. Come on Marshall.!! Get with the program and stop with the half-@zz $h1t like this as well as the Origin which sounds like @zz in my humble opinion.
Marshall is just a "brand" nowadays. Big mark up of low quality products. Only reason they are still around is because of brand recognition and ignorant consumers that will buy any crap if it has the right logo.
I appreciate the *editing* that goes into your videos; making these from a standpoint of "just the facts, *man*" is a 'Net positive and prevents them from becoming a Drag! 😆 (I can hear it in my head now, in your voice, exactly as you'd phrase it; perhaps it'll drown out the other voices 🙄).
PS, Lyle, I might be sorry I made that joke because immediately afterward an episode of the TV show Dragnet popped up on my non-subscription TH-cam feed. Apparently the algorithm assembled the key words from what I had written and decided that I wanted to or needed to watch Dragnet. And now, I expect I'll never be rid of it! Damn you, Algorithm!
I've been enjoying Lyle's videos for awhile now, not just for the content (which is of great interest to me), but also because his voice, manner of speaking, and methodical process is very similar to the conscious running narrative going on in my own mind. It's actually not weird at all, but rather comforting and reassuring for me to be able to freely access his videos and have that opportunity to kind of 'turn off' or relax that brain function while working on some other inconsequential tasks, and just let Lyle take that over. And how great it is that it's actually something that has great meaning to me as well, being someone that trained as an electronic service tech back in the 80s myself, but due to availability of other opportunities just never managed to do it professionally. For that I think that Lyle may be providing much more of a public service than what he even realizes, and I feel a great deal of loyalty to his channel because of it. There are very few hosts of channels that approach things with a justifiable level of concern and caring as he does, and I'm hopeful he can reap the rewards of an expanding audience for this style and type of content creation. Thank You Lyle!
Super interesting, as always. I'm scratching my head though, about a comment you made around the 3:41 mark: the cap between plate and screen. Did you mean to say between the plate and cathode i.e. a plate bypass cap? I just can't understand why such a high voltage rating is needed between plate and screen or why you'd need a cap there anyway. I would greatly appreciate your wisdom .... Thanks in advance. BTW: I actually like both lengths of video. Call me sick and twisted, but that's how it is ...
With such significant errors on the board assembly from Marshall, trusting the "accuracy" of their Schematics could be problematic as well. I couldn't even begin to evaluate if components were going to work or blow up. You've got a tough job, and being annoyed at the incompetence of others is understandable.
After watching this, I am feeling a need to take a long hard look inside my 2525H and see if Marshall has screwed up if anything. Not even sure I can get a schematic. Thanks for the heads up, they just don't make them like they used to...
hey great channel. im from the uk. have you ever worked on or have an opinion on the harley benton tube15. i think they are called monoprice stage right in the us. it would be my first try of a tube amp being a fairly novice beginner guitar player. mostly cowboy chords etc. ive got a katana 50 mk1 at the moment and a little fender champion20. hoping that if i bye one i will be able to turn it down to sensible volume levels with the 1 watt setting.
Good video Marshall needs to get there act together building better amps! Blackstar is crap! but there is so many amps out there much better. A good tecj always checks his work and you did that/ Thats being smart you did that. Hats off for you doing so! I always injoy what you do. Thank you!
It's all broken down junk when it hits the repair bench. Some idiot at the factory put a whole ammo pack roll of WRONG oriented capacitors into the pick n place machine and another idiot failed to catch it & change the place rotation program on the machine!! Those DSL/TSL boards become conductive with time and exposure to heat (BAD DESIGN). Some of the best ham radio transceivers, ham radio transmitters & receiver & some exceptionally great stereos from the 1970s, 80s and early 1990s have a conformal coating on their boards that becomes very conductive. You can't replace those boards anymore. You have to take the whole thing apart and totally rebuild it after you have scraped all of that conductive crap off the boards. It is often worth all of the time, effort and expense though. A stereo with a conformal coated board was way overbuilt to withstand a lot of abuse. Ham radios were made to run in a vehicle like a car, truck or boat, so they got the goo too.
Most people watch ten minutes worth of a long video. A man walks down the street He says, "Why am I short of attention? Got a short little span of attention And, whoa, my nights are so long"
@@PsionicAudio have you seen any PCB/bias drift issues on 2004 and up JCM2000 DSL 50s? I'm looking to buy a used 2004 within the next couple days..... I've heard the 2004 and up are ok, but after seeing a couple other things online, I'm not sure if that's true. Thank you in advance if you have time to reply.
If you replace a defect board, the 2 bias adjust pots MUST be replaced. These 2 pots will fail and cause the output tubes to red plate. REMEMBER this warning.
Always ordering parts. Most techs keep a good supply of common resistors and caps so customers aren’t waiting weeks instead of days. I realize stocking parts is reduced cash flow but isn’t that the cost of owning a company?
I’m trying to decide if this is an honest question or just an attempted potshot. I have thousands of commonly used parts on hand. I used to have many more before the massive supply chain problems of the past two years. I’m replenishing as standard parts become available. In this case, the lead spacing of the resistors on this board is more narrow than the resistors I usually use. So I’m ordering some good ones that will be a precise fit. And I have 25V, 50V, and 400V 47uf radials in stock but not the 63V or 100V appropriate for this bias supply.
I guess the "quality control" consists of them sending a replacement board out to a tech like yourself, and hoping you will find and correct their errors.☹
As a tech in the automotive / heavy equipment field, I'm seeing more and more poorly made parts from every brand/ company lately. It seems humans from everywhere are dropping the ball in their respective QC departments since covid.
Sadly the bridge should have been designed to heat sink to the chassis . Which would give it a much longer life. Given the board was mark so reading is a problem for the assembler we see. Well British electronic at it normal . Long live Lucas standards (sarcasm ) .
@@PsionicAudio, I have replaced many many small round bridge rectifiers with the square ones like you used here.. Granted, the square ones don't make full power handling if you don't add a bolt-on heatsink to them, but I've used lots of these in 50 to 100 wpc stereo receivers, usually 200 Volt, 6 or 8 amp bridges, and even without a heat sink I've never seen one fail. In something like a grid bias circuit where there's almost no current draw, even If it's also powering a few opamps or small relays, it doesn't really matter, especially when the replacement you used is probably rated for 2 or 3 times the current and presumably higher voltage than the original. Getting it up off the board to prevent baking the PCB or any nearby caps Is the most important part.
I have that same feeling about guitar people on here. If they get something soooo simple wrong, like how to adjust action on an acoustic, how can I trust that anything else they say is correct? I can't. That's why I only have a few channels I watch today. Most every other one I used to watch had to go after realizing they know less than I do and I've only been playing for 3 years. While the people I watched had played for 20+ yet they don't know basic guitar knowledge. Smh.
I have seen a video of someone stick a probe in a live amp too close between plate and heater pins, causing a massive ~500VDC arc that torched the probe and tube socket. The person seemed surprised and thought there must something "wrong" with the amp that caused it to happen.....
What an embarrassment. Wonder what ole man Jim Marshall would say ? Bet not good. FWIW im in the 10 minute attention crowd. Are the Vietnam DSL boards any better ?
I still don’t understand PCB amps. Yes, it’s convenient and less money to manufacture. But, bring back the good old times. Not getting into politics but people need to start achieving goals.
There's nothing wrong with PCBs. I'd say they are even essential for more complex amps as otherwise those can turn to rat's nests that are even harder to figure out. The problem is that a lot of companies cut corners on their PCB designs as they are intended for a lower price point. Marshall, Fender, Vox, Blackstar, expect it from all these brands. A Bogner, Fryette or Friedman is less likely to have issues. For repair guys it would be nice if amps were designed with easier repairs in mind though where you don't have one huge board where getting under it can be a lot of disassembly.
@@kasakka , There was a time when virtually all solid state hifi gear had removable bottom panels and you could get to both sides of the circuit board fairly easy. Once the market started going more towards multi channel audio video receivers, many manufacturers stopped putting removable bottoms on their equipment in the Nineties. ( Although one notable exception to easy board removal or underside access in old analog stereo receivers was sometimes the tuner RF and IF board, which might have a tuning condenser mounted directly to the tuner PCB, and a dial string going directly to the tuning condenser, and an integral metal shield, part of the chassis, underneath the PCB; and so you would have to undo the dial string in order to get that board up and get to the solder joints and component connections underneath. I don't see this type of design very often but I sure hate it when it do!)
Marshall is junk these days. They spent most of the last 2 years whimpering at home wet with their own wee wee and now they have forgotten how to make amps. Junk.
And yeah, I’m kicking myself for not seeing that before putting the board in. I’m not perfect. Yet. ;)
Your damn close though. Keep up the good work Lyle.
I've seen plenty of cases in old solid-state gear where the silk screen markings on a board are incorrect and so when you find a capacitor that appears to have been factory-mounted backwards and it's not exploded, perhaps only slightly bulged which could just be from age or heat, only the voltmeter probes on the capacitor connections can tell you for certain. Whenever I make an assumption it usually turns out to be wrong and I regret it afterwards.
I'm not perfect either, Lyle. It's theoretically possible that I might yet make a mistake someday. 🤣
" If I could sell my experience for what it cost me I'd be a millionaire". Erma Bombeck
We all have our days mate.
Love your longer form content. 15 minutes is perfect, but sometimes even a 30 minute one makes for some great evening relaxation while learning a thing or two. Keep it up. Don't read too hard into your analytics, it's a recipe for unhappiness. You already got to 32K subscribers with 30 minute videos after all, so somebody must like it :-)
The more of these tube amp videos I watch... the more I appreciate my Boss Katana.
Exactly. I've got a Fender Mustang ll and, not as luxurious as the Katana, it does the job. $60 used. Cheers!
th-cam.com/video/EPvon7zLdgw/w-d-xo.html
@@fullwaverecked Great value. If it was any cheaper, it would be free! Use it, and enjoy it. Money well spent.
Honestly,
I think you're missing out on an awesome marketing opportunity. Who here wouldn't pony up for a 'Grumpy Tech' T-shirt?!!!
Great vid!
I did the same job a few months back, the board arrived with one cap leg floating freely in mid air!
I watch start to finish no matter the length of the video. Sometimes I may have to step away and come back to it but that has nothing to do with my attention span. I don't do this type of work and doubt that I ever will but I still learn from it. Thanks for showing us.
You know us older folks prefer long form. We appreciate earned wisdom.👏
anyone else feel like a giant Do Not Buy According To Lyle spreadsheet would be a really useful thing to have to refer to at this point? seems like it's way too easy to run into a dud especially if you're hunting for a used 'bargain'
I looking forward to a video announcing your line of amps are back up.
We have seen more than 60% failure rate of the bias adjust pots....the wiper of the pot fails and the output tube bias voltage shuts off.
Loved the notebook circuit break down. Great work as always Lyle.
Holy Moly, good timing! I am expecting a new board to ship next week. I'll be inspecting that new board and looking for these factory mistakes mistakes. Thanks for the information.
Come on Marshall! From a retired player/enthusiast who loves the DSL sound and my DSL-1 head and combo...yes I own both, I'm so disappointed. There's a distinct difference between design and production mistakes, however their seems to be a combination of both to my limited knowledge of either. Ultimately though, Marshall has elected to put their name on this and so their reputation as well. I've proudly owned and revered their 1959x and 1987x four input models. Actually, the 1959 was a four input/output model. {I previously thought it was the 1987x, my bad}. They were both from the mid 1970's. My 1959x came with the Marshall 8x10 guitar cab.. A beast to be sure. I want a DSL-20 but think now I'll just wait and enjoy my PRS Hendrix 20. It handles pedals well so I can get it into JCM800/900 territory if need be. Come on Marshall.!! Get with the program and stop with the half-@zz $h1t like this as well as the Origin which sounds like @zz in my humble opinion.
Marshall is just a "brand" nowadays. Big mark up of low quality products. Only reason they are still around is because of brand recognition and ignorant consumers that will buy any crap if it has the right logo.
Hi Lyle. I see these Marshall amps for sale used all the time. Now I know why. Thanks
I appreciate the *editing* that goes into your videos; making these from a standpoint of "just the facts, *man*" is a 'Net positive and prevents them from becoming a Drag! 😆 (I can hear it in my head now, in your voice, exactly as you'd phrase it; perhaps it'll drown out the other voices 🙄).
PS, Lyle, I might be sorry I made that joke because immediately afterward an episode of the TV show Dragnet popped up on my non-subscription TH-cam feed. Apparently the algorithm assembled the key words from what I had written and decided that I wanted to or needed to watch Dragnet. And now, I expect I'll never be rid of it! Damn you, Algorithm!
I've been enjoying Lyle's videos for awhile now, not just for the content (which is of great interest to me), but also because his voice, manner of speaking, and methodical process is very similar to the conscious running narrative going on in my own mind.
It's actually not weird at all, but rather comforting and reassuring for me to be able to freely access his videos and have that opportunity to kind of 'turn off' or relax that brain function while working on some other inconsequential tasks, and just let Lyle take that over. And how great it is that it's actually something that has great meaning to me as well, being someone that trained as an electronic service tech back in the 80s myself, but due to availability of other opportunities just never managed to do it professionally.
For that I think that Lyle may be providing much more of a public service than what he even realizes, and I feel a great deal of loyalty to his channel because of it. There are very few hosts of channels that approach things with a justifiable level of concern and caring as he does, and I'm hopeful he can reap the rewards of an expanding audience for this style and type of content creation.
Thank You Lyle!
Yup... I prefer the longer ones, but I'll settle for a quickie. That's what she said...
I did my TSL 100 the board was cheap, and if you label all the cables
Before you remove them it's quite straightforward, mine is like brand New now
This is why I sold my TSL JCM 2000. Board Issue 20 and they still can't get it right.
Long form away Lyle!
That's crazy! What's going on over @ Marshall? Has this been the case with them for a while? This is making me lose my desire to buy a Marshall.
WOW. I wonder if they're shipping amps out the door with jacked up components or if they catch them during QC...?
Super interesting, as always. I'm scratching my head though, about a comment you made around the 3:41 mark: the cap between plate and screen. Did you mean to say between the plate and cathode i.e. a plate bypass cap? I just can't understand why such a high voltage rating is needed between plate and screen or why you'd need a cap there anyway. I would greatly appreciate your wisdom .... Thanks in advance. BTW: I actually like both lengths of video. Call me sick and twisted, but that's how it is ...
They put it between cap and screen, supposedly to eliminate oscillation (though the amps are usually fine without it). The 500v caps commonly burn.
With such significant errors on the board assembly from Marshall, trusting the "accuracy" of their Schematics could be problematic as well. I couldn't even begin to evaluate if components were going to work or blow up. You've got a tough job, and being annoyed at the incompetence of others is understandable.
After watching this, I am feeling a need to take a long hard look inside my 2525H and see if Marshall has screwed up if anything. Not even sure I can get a schematic. Thanks for the heads up, they just don't make them like they used to...
The untenable condition for these can be rectified by having knobs that go to eleven instead of ten.
I take it the JCM 2000 DSL 50w has the same problem?
May I know where to buy a board. Thank you
hey great channel.
im from the uk. have you ever worked on or have an opinion on the harley benton tube15.
i think they are called monoprice stage right in the us.
it would be my first try of a tube amp being a fairly novice beginner guitar player. mostly cowboy chords etc. ive got a katana 50 mk1 at the moment and a little fender champion20.
hoping that if i bye one i will be able to turn it down to sensible volume levels with the 1 watt setting.
Thanks!
Your Katana is better than the HB/MP.
@@PsionicAudio thanks for the reply.
It seems to be a problem with Marshall. Brad had the same kind of issues with a replacement board. Lyle, have you ever tried pure tone imput jacks?
Good video Marshall needs to get there act together building better amps! Blackstar is crap! but there is so many amps out there much better. A good tecj always checks his work and you did that/ Thats being smart you did that. Hats off for you doing so! I always injoy what you do. Thank you!
It's all broken down junk when it hits the repair bench. Some idiot at the factory put a whole ammo pack roll of WRONG oriented capacitors into the pick n place machine and another idiot failed to catch it & change the place rotation program on the machine!! Those DSL/TSL boards become conductive with time and exposure to heat (BAD DESIGN). Some of the best ham radio transceivers, ham radio transmitters & receiver & some exceptionally great stereos from the 1970s, 80s and early 1990s have a conformal coating on their boards that becomes very conductive. You can't replace those boards anymore. You have to take the whole thing apart and totally rebuild it after you have scraped all of that conductive crap off the boards. It is often worth all of the time, effort and expense though. A stereo with a conformal coated board was way overbuilt to withstand a lot of abuse. Ham radios were made to run in a vehicle like a car, truck or boat, so they got the goo too.
Too bad they messed this amp up. It sounds real good when it is working properly.
Hey Lyle... Do you accept amps in need of servicing shipped to you via UPS? I have a 66 Fender Tremolux I would like you to work on.
TEST
Most people watch ten minutes worth of a long video.
A man walks down the street
He says, "Why am I short of attention?
Got a short little span of attention
And, whoa, my nights are so long"
Mr Beerbelly, Beerbelly…
Is this new board DSL100H or DSL100HR? Thanks!
Neither. JCM2000 from ‘99.
Current DSL100 amps have nothing in common except the same.
@@PsionicAudio have you seen any PCB/bias drift issues on 2004 and up JCM2000 DSL 50s? I'm looking to buy a used 2004 within the next couple days..... I've heard the 2004 and up are ok, but after seeing a couple other things online, I'm not sure if that's true. Thank you in advance if you have time to reply.
Built on a Friday...
If you replace a defect board, the 2 bias adjust pots MUST be replaced. These 2 pots will fail and cause the output tubes to red plate. REMEMBER this warning.
Always ordering parts. Most techs keep a good supply of common resistors and caps so customers aren’t waiting weeks instead of days. I realize stocking parts is reduced cash flow but isn’t that the cost of owning a company?
I’m trying to decide if this is an honest question or just an attempted potshot.
I have thousands of commonly used parts on hand. I used to have many more before the massive supply chain problems of the past two years. I’m replenishing as standard parts become available.
In this case, the lead spacing of the resistors on this board is more narrow than the resistors I usually use. So I’m ordering some good ones that will be a precise fit.
And I have 25V, 50V, and 400V 47uf radials in stock but not the 63V or 100V appropriate for this bias supply.
Lyle can take as long as he wants.
Those bias pots with the bias passing directly trough the wipers only.... Why do they insist on this kamikaze bias?
I wish you show the connection the dang con numbers do not match
YIKES...!!!
I guess the "quality control" consists of them sending a replacement board out to a tech like yourself, and hoping you will find and correct their errors.☹
As a tech in the automotive / heavy equipment field, I'm seeing more and more poorly made parts from every brand/ company lately. It seems humans from everywhere are dropping the ball in their respective QC departments since covid.
Is there any recourse for the mistakes on Marshall’s part? Do ya have to eat them? Chomp chomp
Edit; you don’t know anything about Marshall
Sadly the bridge should have been designed to heat sink to the chassis . Which would give it a much longer life. Given the board was mark so reading is a problem for the assembler we see. Well British electronic at it normal . Long live Lucas standards (sarcasm ) .
I’ve had to chassis mount bridges in many JTM60s and various Mesas. Here the added lead length should do the trick.
@@PsionicAudio The air flow will help there keeping the board cooler . British electronic eye for details at work .
@@PsionicAudio, I have replaced many many small round bridge rectifiers with the square ones like you used here.. Granted, the square ones don't make full power handling if you don't add a bolt-on heatsink to them, but I've used lots of these in 50 to 100 wpc stereo receivers, usually 200 Volt, 6 or 8 amp bridges, and even without a heat sink I've never seen one fail. In something like a grid bias circuit where there's almost no current draw, even If it's also powering a few opamps or small relays, it doesn't really matter, especially when the replacement you used is probably rated for 2 or 3 times the current and presumably higher voltage than the original. Getting it up off the board to prevent baking the PCB or any nearby caps Is the most important part.
Lucas prince of darkness...
I have that same feeling about guitar people on here. If they get something soooo simple wrong, like how to adjust action on an acoustic, how can I trust that anything else they say is correct? I can't.
That's why I only have a few channels I watch today. Most every other one I used to watch had to go after realizing they know less than I do and I've only been playing for 3 years. While the people I watched had played for 20+ yet they don't know basic guitar knowledge. Smh.
I have seen a video of someone stick a probe in a live amp too close between plate and heater pins, causing a massive ~500VDC arc that torched the probe and tube socket. The person seemed surprised and thought there must something "wrong" with the amp that caused it to happen.....
There is someone in the Marshall chain of command allowing these idiotic short comings to take place. Ridiculous.
Long vids me
Being a Brit I can only apologise for the board,it is just a piece of crap!
What an embarrassment. Wonder what ole man Jim Marshall would say ? Bet not good. FWIW im in the 10 minute attention crowd. Are the Vietnam DSL boards any better ?
You mean the current production DSL 100H amps? Totally different, none of these issues. You can see one of those on my channel a few weeks back.
@@PsionicAudio Thanks.
I still don’t understand PCB amps. Yes, it’s convenient and less money to manufacture. But, bring back the good old times. Not getting into politics but people need to start achieving goals.
There's nothing wrong with PCBs. I'd say they are even essential for more complex amps as otherwise those can turn to rat's nests that are even harder to figure out. The problem is that a lot of companies cut corners on their PCB designs as they are intended for a lower price point. Marshall, Fender, Vox, Blackstar, expect it from all these brands. A Bogner, Fryette or Friedman is less likely to have issues.
For repair guys it would be nice if amps were designed with easier repairs in mind though where you don't have one huge board where getting under it can be a lot of disassembly.
You answered your own thought with your second sentence...
True.
@@kasakka , There was a time when virtually all solid state hifi gear had removable bottom panels and you could get to both sides of the circuit board fairly easy. Once the market started going more towards multi channel audio video receivers, many manufacturers stopped putting removable bottoms on their equipment in the Nineties. ( Although one notable exception to easy board removal or underside access in old analog stereo receivers was sometimes the tuner RF and IF board, which might have a tuning condenser mounted directly to the tuner PCB, and a dial string going directly to the tuning condenser, and an integral metal shield, part of the chassis, underneath the PCB; and so you would have to undo the dial string in order to get that board up and get to the solder joints and component connections underneath. I don't see this type of design very often but I sure hate it when it do!)
Yet, here we are communicating on tiny components that at the end of the day are unfixable. Unless you have $$$.
I have no idea how anyone could buy a Marshall, especially JCM2000. Cheap Chinese crap with cool logo, that's all they are!
This is an older UK made JCM2000.
Should say Made in Somalia. Oooops, not Pc. So sorry.
Marshall is junk these days. They spent most of the last 2 years whimpering at home wet with their own wee wee and now they have forgotten how to make amps. Junk.