Is expensive MTB Suspension worth it?
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 24 ก.ย. 2024
- Check out the full season, extended cut here - • Cheap vs Expensive MTB...
BIKES
Grey Polygon Siskiu T6 - bikesonline-us...
Blue/Yellow Polygon Siskiu T7 - bikesonline-us...
Parts Seen in the video (affiliate link):
High Bike suspension kit - www.worldwidec...
Low Bike Rear Shock (Fox Float X) - collabs.shop/m... - Code "SagaMTB2024" for 10% off
OneUp Composite Pedals - collabs.shop/u... - Code "SagaMTB2024" for 10% off
OneUp Aluminum Pedals - collabs.shop/r... - Code "SagaMTB2024" for 10% off
OneUp EDC Threadless - collabs.shop/0... - Code "SagaMTB2024" for 10% off
Specialized Tires - click.linksyne...
Tools:
Shock pump - bikesonline-us...
Cassette Lockring Tool - amzn.to/3WQZOnT
Electric Ratchet - amzn.to/3UPZXZ4
Bike Repair stand with scale in arm - amzn.to/3ioCsXR
Rubber Mallet - amzn.to/3uVP2R6
Green Tire Lever - collabs.shop/o... - Code "SagaMTB2024" for 10% off
Breaker bar - amzn.to/3YuKoGB
Camera Equipment -
DJI Osmo Action 4 - amzn.to/3MD1xds
DJI Mic - amzn.to/40CpRSK
DJI Mini 4 Pro Drone - amzn.to/49tOrsS
Sony Alpha 7S III Camera - amzn.to/49z1ida
Sony FE 24-70mm F2.8 GM II Lens - amzn.to/3MDGdEW
My Riding Gear:
Smith White helmet - smithoptics.px...
Smith Pink Helmet - smithoptics.px...
Smith Riding Glasses - smithoptics.px...
Giro DND gloves - amzn.to/3UTjyZD
Chad's Party Shirts - partyshirtinte...
Disclaimer: The links above may be affiliate links and earn me a commission.
The production and overall quality of this video is off the charts.
And that's coming from a Swiss guy.
Well done, must have taken a lot of sweat to produce this.
You can be proud.
Cheers from Switzerland
Thank you! I put in a lot of work, especially on those animations! Thanks for the compliments
Lmao I love the format of this video because it’s the same as Donut media 😂😂 High/low series
Still just as good
Oh yes the High Low song is back!!! Now it really feels like a Hi Low episode! Great job with the edits as well!
Love the cost per second evaluation....
That helps me in the diminishing returns category. 😊
“When it comes to suspension and ugly friends…” 😂
In seriousness, love the format and the stress on how, if you’re willing to do your own service, or just pay for service instead of upgrade, you can save money and get performance gains!
Spending money on new stuff doesn’t make your bike better for sure, and it doesn’t make you a better rider 🤘🏼
Haha full disclaimer - that was a line from donut media's High Low
@@EvansMTBSaga that’s still funny 😆
These videos have come a long way! With rockshox suspension, I typically only run 20-25% sag to help with mid stroke diving (Not relevant to flight attendant). Compression can be used up to a few click, but tends to be too much after that. As for rebound start in the middle and bracket up and down, you’ll probably end up a few clicks faster than at halfway.
30% sag is too much for a fork (if measured with weight balanced between front and rear wheels). This would put your weight too far forward. 20% sag on most bikes/forks is ideal. Then work through rebound and compression. Search up Seb Stott's guide from a few year's back for one of the best guides for suspension setup.
i love your videos. they taught me i dont need to have top end expensive part to have fun. thank you so much
Hey Evan to make sure you don’t get the chatter on the rocks put the rebound up so that it can take every rock individually, if you know what I mean
I've been running a Yari 160 fork on my budget 2022 Marin Alpine Trail 7 Enduro Bike. Was $3,000 new in 22 and it seems same spec "budget" bikes now go for $$2,000-$2,400. I upgraded a few of the usual things most MTBs do and my buddies with $4-$6,000 bikes.
I've never had problems keeping up and am usually up top climbs and down first. It's a "heavy" bike, prolly around 36lbs, but I also ride 3-4 days a week enduro or xc trails. I rebuild the suspension & drivetrain after the first year because I put 2,500 miles on it and will probably be 3 this year. Point being. You don't need super high end parts or bikes to ride trails and have fun. And you can always slowly upgrade things or replace as you progress and time goes along.
Your videos are fun to watch because a lot of us can relate to these things getting into the sport ! Keep em coming!
I’ve dropped far too much money on high end bikes over the years, but largely because I just like getting my stuff dialed in exactly how I want it. For people newer to the sport who really want to improve performance, a properly fit mid range bike with dialed in components will be significantly cheaper than a high-end bike dialed in the same way and will barely give up any performance. Combine that mid range bike with proper nutrition, fitness, and skill training (even if paying for real coaching) and you will be a much better rider than the person who just throws money at their bike. For racers, honest evaluation of where you fall in your class will almost certainly prove that training and fitness are the better investment in time and money than any gear.
Great video love the content and hope you are having fun with these bikes
Editing and quality/production value are top notch on this video. You can tell a lot of work went into it!
Thanks!!! That rear shock animation was made entirely from scratch and took hours and hours haha
@@EvansMTBSaga nice thought that was pretty cool 👍🏼
Epic video bro! You’ve really stepped it up over the last year! Tires upgrade > suspension. Custom tuned suspension > electronic BS. Keep up the excellent work my guy!
You spend $500 on a fork, I spend $500 on a bike. We are not the same.
Watch the very first episodes Evan made and he started with a very cheap bike and started upgrading. He mostly uses used bikes and parts.
That's fine. I hope you found the video enjoyable
I spent $22 on a Krsec AliExpress stem and $60 for a clone novitech hub for my 6k Cannondale Jeckyll.
Absolutely proud of it. 😂
We're all the same with different budgets.
@@EvansMTBSaga Lmao, it's a meme format. The video was entertaining enough. Hope you enjoyed making it.
😂😂😂 I love the “budget reviews” where the cheapest bike is 5k. Like, I have to put the cheapest option on layaway? 🤬
i loved the original high low series im so pumped you decided to do it again
Moral of he story: dont spend thousands on suspension. Youre not a pro so save your money and take the extra second :)
I appreciate the comment. But the argument "youre not a pro, so don't buy _____" is flawed. Anyone can buy anything.
Don't tell me what to do 😂 jk. I wouldn't spend money like that
I don't but useless stuff, but expensive components shouldn't be limited to pros. I hear what you're saying tho
@@EvansMTBSaga Oh i get that, if you want to buy it its your bike and money so you do what you want, I feel people are so worried about every last gram or if they have the latest and greatest damper, that they are sorta pressed into having up to date parts or gear. But i think the best way to shave seconds off your time is to improve your skills by riding more challenging terrain or bettering your fitness. And you didnt seem to be encouraging anyone to buy the newest suspension or anything which is one of the things i like about your channel. But for most people i really dont think you should spend all that money for the half second gain. That comment came off more mean than i meant it to :/
I just want small bumps compliance and sadly that shit is expensive 😂
difference between fox/rockshox is that fox suspension has a consistent stiffness all the way through the travel, whereas rockshox has the progressive. For me, I much rather the feeling of the fox, but I know that a lot of people prefer rockshox, I guess it's up to what you are used to/what feels more comfortable for you.
Production quality is wild. The scripting and preparation this surely took is admirable and appreciated!
You're doing a great work! That's pretty interesting topic to discuss and your area is so damn cool! And you even prevented all the questions we may have by doing your lowers service and getting shock for your frame.
Haha I remember all the comments from last time! I am a little bummed because less comments this time around, so I appreciate you!
Well produced video. Great acting, videography and formatting. Keep it up.
I upgraded from the Recon, on my Siskiu T6 to a Used Pike Select 2021. I bought it used for a great price, and in near new condition. Wow, so much lighter, and it runs better on the trail to boot. No chips in the stantions, luckily. Slightly older used Pike Select can be had for under 300.
Props to your wife for letting you buy all this stuff 😅
She's my #1 supporter ❤️
Behind every good TH-camr is the best wife ever........plus TH-cam money helps 😂😂😂
TH-cam money is barely paying the bills in this economy unfortunately. 2 episodes in and haven't had an ad read either. Hoping to break even though
@@EvansMTBSaga so the 1st part is the most important best wife ever
Just watched bunch of the ads, hope it helps@@EvansMTBSaga
I’m digging Chad’s “Send -Daddy” button up shirts.
I absolutely love this series and all the love and attention you put into it!
Evan, I'm local, and I have a lyrik select with bad lowers if you decide you need want to replace your stanchions!
Your videos dramatically improved! High quality
loved every second of this, great job man
Thanks man! New episode tomorrow!
So what we've learned is that a suspension upgrade is always worth it and the best suspension is the one you can find the best deal on.
Btw I'm stealing "Hold my electrolytes!"
Those prices for the Flight Attendant are pure fantasy
Haha yeah idk why they settled at that crazy price
Cant you get full xo1 transmission for 2k?
@EvansMTBSaga they probably sell a surprisingly small number of them for the cost of the engineering, patents, and low volume manufacturing. Every time you buy one you're probably paying for the engineer's time lol.
The fancy stuff is cool, but the "cheap" suspension is already expensive to me 😆
These videos are so good to watch, very high quality. However having good parts doesn’t only affect your times, it affects the feel on the trail, the comfort, tricks and so much more, could be worth taking into consideration for all the expensive parts?
Love the quality of your video man !!
The flight attendant just looks so good
I put a RS Charger 2.1 RC2 damper and the corresponding updated air can in my 2020 RS Revelation, turning a rather mudane fork into a Pike Ultimate for only a couple hundred bux.....Rockshox upgrades are an inexpensive DIY performance upgrade if you're handy with tools.
Nice man! And hats off to Rockshox for making everything DIY friendly like using a cassette tool to remove the air side cap
I would love to upgrade my 22' Revelation. Im just scared to do it myself. I know the RS app shows all the upgrades, but does it show all the proper tools needed??
@@mikeburgh3956 I had NO special tools at all, but did buy the requisite oil and lubes recommended by RS. It took about 2 hours to do both tubes. I did have a brain fart, and forget to purge the air can of PSI and almost blew a hole in my face when the cap finally unscrewed all the way - scared the heck out of me (can't believe I forgot to do such a fundamental task!) - was going to use the stock air damper, but had to order the upgraded version cuz I nicked the shaft when it shot past my face into the garage rafters. Kinda glad I got the upgrade air damper, because it rides higher in the travel and is more plush than stock. RS Trailforks app, has a list of all the upgrades for your serial number....so much easier to find out info than with fox stuff.
Chad 😂
Great video man! I get great performance from my inexpensive suspension. They’re much easier to tune also which is a massive plus for me 👍
Absolutely. I wanna try the little mods like Vorsprung or w/e. Similar to what you did with the MegNeg
@@EvansMTBSaga sweet! Those aftermarket components can really improve the performance. I still have my Megneg and I might put that on my newer ultimate shock and see how it feels 👍
Just put forks and shock on my daughter’s bike, and upgraded my son Jeffsey to a floatX. World of difference
First thing, fantastic video which provided so much information and detail. You definitely earned a subscriber! - Keep it up
Good stuff. Want this channel to thrive!
Thanks Abe!
You should also add a “fun” category. Did the new parts make the bike noticeably more fun/enjoyable to ride? That’s the whole point of mountain biking for your average rider
Good point. The expensive suspension definitely made me happier
@@EvansMTBSaga I ride upper mid level bikes. I have a GX Kenevo Comp for an EMTB and a AL Canyon Grizl with the Rockshox Rudy fork for the chunky gravel here in WA. I haven’t had any crazy nice bikes yet but planning on getting a pretty sick Amish bike eventually. I’m a slightly above average rider anyway so I’m not sure if I’d benefit from crazy nice suspension. Would be fun to do a test like this myself!
I have had quite a lot of experience with the suspension on the low bike and I can say for sure that flat feeling is just a fox problem. I have rode that shock brand new on a specialized status and I couldn't tolerate how terrible the feeling of it was. I ended up changing it to a rockshox monarch fron 2019 and it was 3x better instantly without even being tuned for the frame. As for the lyric fork. I have over a year spent riding a base level one from 2019 and the best tip I could give you would be to set the sag at or just under 25% and either speed up the rebound a bit or add another volume spacer to keep the fork in the soft begging of it's travel. I live in New Zealand though and I ride like I'm on crack so I have a much harder suspension setup than most. (185 psi rear and 95 front for a 60 kg rider) hope that helps though. I am loving the series so far and I've got to say that was a very nice touch adding the $ per second in there to show the true value.
I have the same Lyrik Select+, you can upgrade it to charger 2.1 RC2 changing the entire cartridge for about 250$, you can also fit the new Charger 3 RC2 with buttercups for about the same price (the only problem is that you're limited to 160mm of travel) and last option, but the one that I've chosen, you can install the Push HC97 compression and basically get a RC2 (with 28 clicks of LSC and HSC) for 100$ shipped, is currently discounted
Didn't you get the entire YT bike with the flight attendant for 3k?
These comparison videos are brilliant.
Thanks Rob!! More to come
Alot of expensive upgrades are not worth it. But some make it really better. Like suspension, its not so much about seconds but the feel on the ride. I have superdeluxe ultimate thrushaft on my slash and select plus on my rail. While i would probably ditvh more or less same seconds on both. The ride feel is not even close. The ultimate feels so smooth and comfortable. So maybe not worth in seconds but worth in feel. However flight attendent is mostly overkill
Expensive suspension definitely has an unmatched feel. I've tried flight attendant for a few months and I love it haha
@@EvansMTBSaga isn't it the 'feel' that increases your confidence to attack a faster line? OTOH, for me, upgrades like carbon fiber stems and handlebars that improve 'feel' would not increase my confidence because that next gap I case could result in catastrophic failure
Donut??? "Dose more expensive mean more better?" :James from Donut 2022
We'll miss you James!
Best mountain bike content creator on the Internet!!!!
I suspect the time difference between high and low bike on the tech trail was due to fatigue. The improvement in smoothness with the FA suspension is likely more to do with being brand new, and low bike's suspension probably needs a damper service at both ends. The Lyrik is a buttery smooth fork if it's not in need of a damper service.
0:26 I wouldn’t call a suspension upgrades “easy” necessarily. But most effective, most impactful
I run the lyrik charger 2.1 on my remedy. Its a unbelievable fork, 160mm of super plush traction
Most fork scratches that are surface have no effect on overall performance, it’s the larger ones that get it there and tear it apart from the inside out, if it really bugs you you can simply put some black nail polish on there you can’t tell unless your really looking for it
You can upgrade the LSC adjuster on the Fox Float X Performance, making it a lot more adjustable. Upgrade costs 20ish dollars and maybe half an hour for install.
the best high low series!!!,......love it!
Your editing skills have really improved! All the graphics and animations fit with the video style. The audio levels are also great! Do you use adobe premiere pro/aftereffects?
Charger 3 uses Pistons inside the damper but the older Charger 2.1 uses a expanding and contracting bladder that makes the older one a bit more sensitive to small bumbs and a lil blusher
Heck yeah. I'd probably like the 3 more. But I have a Zeb with 2.1 and it's so plush
Another great video. When I was building Weight Weenie Bikes I always did a Dollar per Gram analysis. Great to see you doing a Dollar per Second analysis. 🤘🏻
Heck yeah man! Glad to hear other people are doing a cost per second analysis. I don't see anyone else doing it on TH-cam, so sometimes I think "do people care about timed runs as much as I do?"
For me, upgrades haven’t made me much faster, but it has been more comfortable and I enjoy my rides more.
Definitely! The flight attendant makes rides more enjoyable as well so I get itb
Dont lie you took the electric Suspension from the yt uncaged
True. Budget was tight for this season
Knew it
"Chad" needs to upgrade his brakes! I'm still running the MT200 stock brakes, but I'm not riding as aggressively either.
I don't need Supersession from top shelf because I am amator and Ride in freeride. My suspension is set to max hard. I need only Basic select.
It all depends on what the bike is to be used for, in my opinion, and that's it
You should do new vs old, the best old parts vs budget new parts
I love this series. It helps me figure out where the real value is at. Can you do a hi/low on a wheelset?
Yeah wheels will be coming soon
A got a lyrik select on my honzo a got it cheap from chain reaction during there closure sales its very good
110 sounds like a pretty high pressure. I’m 190 as well and I’m at 97 for 30% sag. I know setting based on sag on the lyrik B1 spring is hard you kinda have to mess with lowering the pressure.
i nearly said "wow well done sram for making autopilot work on shimano cranks" but nope, no surprise in what actually happens
Haha they would never play nice. They sue each other all the time
Same thing happens with lots of people fighting over patents and not wanting to share information to further the industry...
absolute banger of a title
Haha dude I'm tired from going all out on this series
@@EvansMTBSaga it shows man, great video! take care tho
the solution to the dilema is to buy the electronic one used by $500
Next time you should buy 3 identical bikes. One for low, one high and one for a control
Thanks for asking Chad to be a little less the dude we want to pour a bucket of mud on, and instead make sure he picks up his share of the beer tab after a great day riding.
Chad is a little less tame this season haha. I originally wanted to have a second character be Braxton for s2, a Gen Z kid, but it was easier to bring back Chad
I have the same deluxe+ and ride Colorado chunk. To improve the feel on the chunk, drop the psi a bit and bump up the *rebound*. I have a couple tokens in mine as well (155lbs). If gets chunky i drop the compression a bit and when the trails are flowy and jumpy a bump it up. Its been working well and ive yet to bottom out.
“Finally you are done yappin” best quote by Chad
The part you removed from the pedals is actually not shown in the video right? It’s actually a small o ring that you need to take out.
Oh I went back to the document and you're right. I gotta check that out now. Thanks
I threw them away and then mowed the lawn and all the grass clippings are on top. I can't find them lol
Oh no!!!
Hey Evan you can upgrade that foc float to have low speed compression buy just ordering the low speed compression dial rebuild kit from fox. It took my less then 10 minutes to do
I love the Evan Lolo vs Giga Chad money bags episodes.
My bike currently has a $1200 fork. My old bike had a $800 fork. In my experience the extra $400 is not worth it. Both are super adjustable and super plush.
About the normal lyrik. It's way more playful, because it's a very fast fork. That's why it felt bad on the tech and more playful in the berms and jumps. It's more of a jump fork
The old chad would have defenitly went for a sram transmission derailer and then realizing he needs the proprietary chain, casette, chainring and that sixbolt crankarm. Therapy has done wonders for him 🙏
Haha and he's more talkative and studied up on bike knowledge. Pretty cool dude, still has his moments 😂
@@EvansMTBSaga lol
Great video really enjoyed it. Looking forward to the wireless setup 😀
lol ‘big suspension’ always trying to make us buy their new gear
Haha they're gonna catch wind of my comment and never sponsor me 💀 (oh well lol)
That time difference can be put down to so many variations. essentially, the expensive suspension has got you nothing. good test to prove a point.
i hope chad stands on his new derailleur in the next episode
Haha wasn't that the dumbest demonstration? These bikes don't have a UDH so no Transmission unfortunately
@@EvansMTBSaga ah damn! he's not gonna be happy about that!
Se tivesse legendas em português(🇧🇷) o seu vídeo seria sucesso entre os ciclistas daqui👍🏽
You can try Volume Spacers in the fork and shock. But I am sure you already considered it.
Not sure if I'm right (i don't know those trails), but looks like not a single crank was performed during the descents and that's where the flight attendant shines.
Yeah that's the rule throughout the series. No pedaling on the downhill, so you're right. Although Chad said that the suspension does firm a little on the downhill jumpy trails and the bike was faster on those trails
Is that nice Lyrik from the YT bike you rebuilt not too long ago?
It is. If you look back at my videos, I'm constantly reusing parts for builds to keep costs down. The entire YT was purchased as a parts bike for this series 😁
@@EvansMTBSagaClever! 👍 😉
I've seen some pretty gnarly crashes from forks breaking and I don't really care too much what my bike weighs, so I'm running Fox 40's and a full face helmet (Fox Rampage) 😅
Love it. These videos are really good to watch 👍🤘
Heck yeah thanks Steve!
Great video evan!
Good thing that parts are cheaper right now. If not, Chad would break the bank.
I will dance if I have 500 dollar suspension
Evan's expensive twin strikes again personally the flight attendant just not for me, but this is great content
Holy shit man with 2800 bucks you could buy a high end used bike. That price for suspension only is insane.
Haha I'm thinking flight attendant front and rear shock used would be like $1200
Their MSRP on the suspension is wild for sure
You can use Super glue on small chips or even JB Weld and some celophane tape
Who is exactly like Chad?
🙌🏼
👍
👇
The thing is, even the high end mtb suspension is toy like. MTB stuff lack the precision and quality control yet the price is so extreme that one wonders why we even bother with bicycle components.
Your flight attendant stuff istn‘t even made for the Polygon bike used in the video. Every Flight Attendant Kit is made specifically for only a few bike frames, because they are tuned.
It came off a YT Jeffsy with an average leverage ratio of 2.5. The Polygon I installed it on has 2.34. Very close, but I've never had a shock tuned specifically for a frame so I have my doubts that it makes a big difference
Good news shock wiz and some tokens would tune you right up to high end.
i love this stuff, shoing not to just WASTE money , thank you
I'm brand new to this channel and watched the whole vid and still not sure if its two different dudes or the same guy🤦♂️ I'm really not kidding. Inside I could of sworn they were side by side at one point. Idk I'm tired,😆
Something that helps with runs like Dragon Scales? 25% sag. 😁
More air to push the fork back out.
I like this series but I think there is too much in common with donut media's high low series, the name, the way of explaining stuff and all. I think it would have been better to go on a way of your own, otherwise good video
Definitely an amazing series!