00:00 Introduction 00:56 Metal Studs vs. Wood Studs 02:00 What is Cabinet Backing? 03:19 "Proper" Cabinet Backing 04:04 Installing Directly to Wood Studs 04:53 Reinforcing Metal Studs after Drywall 05:14 Step 1: Find the Stud 05:43 Step 2: Drill a Finger Hole 06:12 Step 3: Cut a Hole in the Drywall 07:18 Step 4: Install a Piece of 2x4 08:53 Step 5: Reinstall Drywall 09:28 Conclusion
that fall is about 2.5 Kn, significantly more than a static force of 25 lbs. Plus force is directional and hanging relies on the studs tensile strength more. Not to mention that metal studs are meant to be part of a system, not standing alone.
I'm not sure I understand how the wood backing assists with metal studs. If you hang the cabinets directly on the metal studs, there are shearing forces applied to the screws in the studs, proportionate to the weight of the cabinet. If instead you use wood backing in the stud cavity, the same thing is essentially true - the cabinet/wood backing is hanging on the metal studs in precisely the same way (or at least, that's how it appears to me). I can see that you might get an improvement in the distribution of forces across more studs, but even that isn't apparent to me. Can somebody explain?
Nah, this guy is full of it. If you use modified truss head screws, you can hang directly onto the steel studs. I've hung thousands of cabinets in commercial apartments and never had a single issue. Wood screws don't have a tight enough thread pitch to hold on steel, but a modified truss head with a self tap point does.
You screw the blocking inside the studs so when you add the cabinets on them they pull tight towards the drywall making a solid hold. If you just screw to the metal studs they will eventually work loose. Cabinets are used daily holding a lot of weight and that is what causes them to come loose. This other commenter doesn’t know what he’s talking about. I’ve had to go in plenty of times after guys like that to fix their poor work later. He never knew it was falling off probably because the owners didn’t want them back on the job after screwing it up the first time. If you 12 gauge studs they’re stronger but they need self tappers to screw into them making them harder to work with. Metal studs are good for strength after the sheet rock goes up, but they can be pretty flimsy on their own.
@@milspec_gx I'm so hoping you can answer my question here. I'm looking for black screws that go through a half inch heavy duty 30x50 in black plastic backer board with metal reinforcements. That's secure. 29x48 in metal cabinets into commercial applications into metal studs as that's how all the stores are built. When these cabinets are fully loaded up, the weight capacity is up to 300 lbs.
Would it not be just as easy to cut out a horizontal piece of drywall all the way across behind cabinet 6" high run your cabinet backing and replace the cut out piece of drywall. Now you have a continuous piece of cabinet backing.
That’s why when we build with metal studs we need to know where they want to hang stuff so we can add backing. Even large pictures need backing. Most houses are built with wood studs, but commercial buildings use a lot of metal studs, so they have more to be concerned about when remodeling.
Years ago I had to install about 50 cabinets in a commercial building for big real estate company. I actually cut and doubled up a bunch of wood I took from pallets they had in a storage room to back up the metal studs just like in the video.
@@BassDoctor63 , that’s about all you can do once the drywall goes up. But it’s much more expensive and labor intensive, neither is preferable. When we built we would add extra backing in areas like dining rooms and kitchens because they have the most chances of needing more decor added later or equipment. The owners appreciate it when they don’t have to go through tearing out walls to hang a new painting or shelves. Nowadays it seems like thinking about your clients first is a thing of the past. Sadly.
First off your throwing the weight off the table that's 25 pounds plus the down force of that's about 50 pounds. Also steel studs are stronger when the drywall locks them together. Wood is definitely stronger and better, but your demo is little dramatic. You're showing the difference between standing on something and jumping on it. But yes wood backer is the way to go.
All your weight of the cabinet is not hanging from one screw though. And also, your demo is a little nuts. We hang cabinets on walls not ceilings. I agree blocking is def the way to go but many people hang cabinets from metal studs no problem
Do they still build houses with wood in the USA we build using brick and concrete block we screw through the drywall into the block work with 4 inch screws.
Thank you, sir!!! I found metal studs on the outer walls of the new house. I'm trying to hang cabinets in the laundry room. Although I'm pissy AF about the house being built this way, I appreciate your instructions, and you have solved my dilemma
Love this approach! I’ve only got DIY level experience, but I’ve only seen recommendations to either use toggle bolts directly into the studs or to open the whole width of section between two steel studs to add a wood backing secured to both steel studs. This is way better!
Yes, that would work as long as you use screws that are equal to or stronger the #8 wood screws. Heavy zip toggles are not always readily available at the local lumber yard and if you can find them you will have to buy longer screws and washers separately. I knew a guy back in the day that just globed construction adhesive on the back of the cabinet before he hung it. Needless to say he didn't work for me. Great comment, Thanks!
A piece of 5/4 x 4 fits perfectly in the webbing of a metal stud… If you can get there before sheet rock you can use your quarter inch crown stapler and staple them into the studs on the side… I upgraded to Milwaukee cordless crown stapler for this job
💥 0:39 such an inappropriate demonstration. Cabinets hang down causing shear pressure. What you demonstrated shows a completely different direction of force applied to a fastener.
I have 4 questions; 1) What type of screw, # & length are you using to go through the stud and 2x4? 2) What type of screw, # & length for handing the cabinets? 3) Do you put a 2x4 for where screws are going to be used @ the bottom or just go through into the stud only w/ no backer? 4) Does the screw going through the cabinet rail into the wall go through both the steel stud and the 2x4 or just the 2x4? Thanks
1) 1 1/4" zinc coated Square head wood screw 2 & 4) I use between 2" to 2 3/4" #8 Zinc coated wood screws to hank the cabinets through both the stud and the wood at the top. Length depends on the thickness of the cabinet hang rail. You want to bite 1-1 1/2" into the stud. 3/4" Cabinet back & Rail + 1/2" Drywall + 1 1/4" bite into stud = 2 1/2" screw. 3) the bottom screw is primarily used to plum the cabinet and has far less sheering force on it since the cabinet is pushing down on it more than pulling out. Backing up the bottom is not needed if you back up the top. Hope this answers your question.
What I ended up doing on an old building was use backing strips like 1x3 and heavy duty anchors on top and bottom boards. The cabinets screw right into those strips. Now, this wasn't a fancy remodel.
Yes, That is Ideal. This is an alternative when they are not installed by the contractor and you have to proceed, or you are working on a DIY consumer job and they forgot to do it.
I'm confused why can't you use spring loaded Mollys..thru the metal stud ...I need to hang cabinetry in a laundry room and Molly's hold 100 lbs in good drywall but that drywall will have steal also..
Yes, you only need backing for upper cabinets and if you are going into metal studs for base and tall cabinets it is better to use drywall or sheet metal screws. Just make sure they are # 8.
Also when putting in a wood backer on the steel studs when their is no drywall up you did good but. My opinion on drywall that is already there, I cut out the drywall about 4'' inches wide and the length of the cabinets being installed then rip a sheet of plywood the thickness of the drywall. Then screw that to the studs, then mount my cabinets to the plywood and studs. Using a rotozip to cut out drywall. But a razer knife or drywall saw works just as good.
I think this is ridiculous to cut this huge piece to put piece of wood there. I drill through metal stud and use toggle bolts. Work as a charm. In addition, there are special screws for metal studs, work well too. But any type of heavy weight I would use toggle bolts.
I wish this was even the case in the house we bought. There’s freakin metal (I call them tin foil) studs throughout except exterior walls. So we’re attempting to hang cabinets in our laundry room and there is luckily a 2x4 across like this but it’s 24” down the wall and wouldn’t align with the “top” of a cabinet. So I’m just hoping that it’s going to be enough to hold them up. We will reinforce other areas too but the only true hold will be into that 2x4.
00:00 Introduction
00:56 Metal Studs vs. Wood Studs
02:00 What is Cabinet Backing?
03:19 "Proper" Cabinet Backing
04:04 Installing Directly to Wood Studs
04:53 Reinforcing Metal Studs after Drywall
05:14 Step 1: Find the Stud
05:43 Step 2: Drill a Finger Hole
06:12 Step 3: Cut a Hole in the Drywall
07:18 Step 4: Install a Piece of 2x4
08:53 Step 5: Reinstall Drywall
09:28 Conclusion
that fall is about 2.5 Kn, significantly more than a static force of 25 lbs. Plus force is directional and hanging relies on the studs tensile strength more. Not to mention that metal studs are meant to be part of a system, not standing alone.
By far the most intelligent comment on this page!
He’s demonstrating how to mount cabinets on the ceiling that violently swing side to side.
GOA- the word ceiling never comes out of his mouth.
@@GOAP68 OMG, I'm an idiot. I just recognized the humor in this.
I'm not sure I understand how the wood backing assists with metal studs. If you hang the cabinets directly on the metal studs, there are shearing forces applied to the screws in the studs, proportionate to the weight of the cabinet.
If instead you use wood backing in the stud cavity, the same thing is essentially true - the cabinet/wood backing is hanging on the metal studs in precisely the same way (or at least, that's how it appears to me). I can see that you might get an improvement in the distribution of forces across more studs, but even that isn't apparent to me. Can somebody explain?
Nah, this guy is full of it. If you use modified truss head screws, you can hang directly onto the steel studs. I've hung thousands of cabinets in commercial apartments and never had a single issue. Wood screws don't have a tight enough thread pitch to hold on steel, but a modified truss head with a self tap point does.
You screw the blocking inside the studs so when you add the cabinets on them they pull tight towards the drywall making a solid hold. If you just screw to the metal studs they will eventually work loose. Cabinets are used daily holding a lot of weight and that is what causes them to come loose. This other commenter doesn’t know what he’s talking about. I’ve had to go in plenty of times after guys like that to fix their poor work later. He never knew it was falling off probably because the owners didn’t want them back on the job after screwing it up the first time.
If you 12 gauge studs they’re stronger but they need self tappers to screw into them making them harder to work with. Metal studs are good for strength after the sheet rock goes up, but they can be pretty flimsy on their own.
@@milspec_gx
I'm so hoping you can answer my question here. I'm looking for black screws that go through a half inch heavy duty 30x50 in black plastic backer board with metal reinforcements. That's secure. 29x48 in metal cabinets into commercial applications into metal studs as that's how all the stores are built. When these cabinets are fully loaded up, the weight capacity is up to 300 lbs.
Would it not be just as easy to cut out a horizontal piece of drywall all the way across behind cabinet 6" high run your cabinet backing and replace the cut out piece of drywall. Now you have a continuous piece of cabinet backing.
That’s why when we build with metal studs we need to know where they want to hang stuff so we can add backing. Even large pictures need backing. Most houses are built with wood studs, but commercial buildings use a lot of metal studs, so they have more to be concerned about when remodeling.
Years ago I had to install about 50 cabinets in a commercial building for big real estate company. I actually cut and doubled up a bunch of wood I took from pallets they had in a storage room to back up the metal studs just like in the video.
@@BassDoctor63 , that’s about all you can do once the drywall goes up. But it’s much more expensive and labor intensive, neither is preferable.
When we built we would add extra backing in areas like dining rooms and kitchens because they have the most chances of needing more decor added later or equipment. The owners appreciate it when they don’t have to go through tearing out walls to hang a new painting or shelves. Nowadays it seems like thinking about your clients first is a thing of the past. Sadly.
First off your throwing the weight off the table that's 25 pounds plus the down force of that's about 50 pounds. Also steel studs are stronger when the drywall locks them together. Wood is definitely stronger and better, but your demo is little dramatic. You're showing the difference between standing on something and jumping on it. But yes wood backer is the way to go.
All your weight of the cabinet is not hanging from one screw though. And also, your demo is a little nuts. We hang cabinets on walls not ceilings. I agree blocking is def the way to go but many people hang cabinets from metal studs no problem
I used toggle bolts to install my uppers to metal studs. The wall will come down before those cabinets do.
Do they still build houses with wood in the USA we build using brick and concrete block we screw through the drywall into the block work with 4 inch screws.
Wood works great if you have evolved out of the stone age.
@@MAGAMAN not so good in a fire or flood though.
@@dilligaf2386 The walls might hold up in a flood but nothing else will. Fire is a good point though.
Thank you, sir!!! I found metal studs on the outer walls of the new house. I'm trying to hang cabinets in the laundry room. Although I'm pissy AF about the house being built this way, I appreciate your instructions, and you have solved my dilemma
Love this approach! I’ve only got DIY level experience, but I’ve only seen recommendations to either use toggle bolts directly into the studs or to open the whole width of section between two steel studs to add a wood backing secured to both steel studs. This is way better!
But what about using a snap toggle into the metal stud ?
Yes, that would work as long as you use screws that are equal to or stronger the #8 wood screws. Heavy zip toggles are not always readily available at the local lumber yard and if you can find them you will have to buy longer screws and washers separately. I knew a guy back in the day that just globed construction adhesive on the back of the cabinet before he hung it. Needless to say he didn't work for me.
Great comment, Thanks!
A piece of 5/4 x 4 fits perfectly in the webbing of a metal stud…
If you can get there before sheet rock you can use your quarter inch crown stapler and staple them into the studs on the side… I upgraded to Milwaukee cordless crown stapler for this job
Thank you so much for the great information! I feel much more confident in the project I am about to attempt. Happy Holidays!
💥 0:39 such an inappropriate demonstration. Cabinets hang down causing shear pressure. What you demonstrated shows a completely different direction of force applied to a fastener.
I have 4 questions; 1) What type of screw, # & length are you using to go through the stud and 2x4? 2) What type of screw, # & length for handing the cabinets? 3) Do you put a 2x4 for where screws are going to be used @ the bottom or just go through into the stud only w/ no backer? 4) Does the screw going through the cabinet rail into the wall go through both the steel stud and the 2x4 or just the 2x4? Thanks
1) 1 1/4" zinc coated Square head wood screw
2 & 4) I use between 2" to 2 3/4" #8 Zinc coated wood screws to hank the cabinets through both the stud and the wood at the top. Length depends on the thickness
of the cabinet hang rail. You want to bite 1-1 1/2" into the stud. 3/4" Cabinet back & Rail + 1/2" Drywall + 1 1/4" bite into stud = 2 1/2" screw.
3) the bottom screw is primarily used to plum the cabinet and has far less sheering force on it since the cabinet is pushing down on it more than pulling out. Backing up the bottom is not needed if you back up the top. Hope this answers your question.
Great advise 👍👍
Super helpful videos... you can learn a lot of construction knowledge here...
What I ended up doing on an old building was use backing strips like 1x3 and heavy duty anchors on top and bottom boards. The cabinets screw right into those strips. Now, this wasn't a fancy remodel.
Does notching the 2x4 so it sits flush in the metal stud help?
How much weight could it potentially hold, by his method of backing up a metal stud, with a 8 inch piece of wood?
so basically put in battens before mounting the cabinets? ie. mounting wood across the studs, horizontally?
Yes, That is Ideal. This is an alternative when they are not installed by the contractor and you have to proceed, or you are working on a DIY consumer job and they forgot to do it.
I'm confused why can't you use spring loaded Mollys..thru the metal stud ...I need to hang cabinetry in a laundry room and Molly's hold 100 lbs in good drywall but that drywall will have steal also..
I would like wood but an alternative would be better and faster
Yes I would run them through the studs if that is your only option. I would never hang cabinets on drywall alone.
I've hung all kinds of heavy stuff from my metal studs with no issues. Just have to use the right anchor.
Is it okay to attach base cabinets to metal studs? Are drywall screws okay or is it better to use a heavier duty self taping metal screw?
Yes, you only need backing for upper cabinets and if you are going into metal studs for base and tall cabinets it is better to use drywall or sheet metal screws. Just make sure they are # 8.
@@cabinettalk8399 Thanks.
Great advice
Shouldnt your example be using sheet metal screws or drywall screws? Why would you do your pullout test using wood screws on the metal studs?
👏👏thank you so much for this video . Extremelky valuable information .
What gauge metal stud is this test done to?
20 gauge standard interior drywall studs
Great video !! I just subscribed.
Nice. Thanks you.
Also when putting in a wood backer on the steel studs when their is no drywall up you did good but. My opinion on drywall that is already there, I cut out the drywall about 4'' inches wide and the length of the cabinets being installed then rip a sheet of plywood the thickness of the drywall. Then screw that to the studs, then mount my cabinets to the plywood and studs. Using a rotozip to cut out drywall. But a razer knife or drywall saw works just as good.
Most of the really good installers will install backing like you described, or a combination of both. Thanks for the comment!
Pro stuff
Just goes to show old school is the best school 🤣
Perfect teacher 🙂❤️❤️❤️great video, thanks 👍👍👍
awesome thanks
I think this is ridiculous to cut this huge piece to put piece of wood there. I drill through metal stud and use toggle bolts. Work as a charm. In addition, there are special screws for metal studs, work well too. But any type of heavy weight I would use toggle bolts.
False… The top screws are tensioned downwards and outwards…
Looks like the moral of this video is to not use metal studs, but anyone with a brain already knows this.
good luck with that in commercial construction.
I wish this was even the case in the house we bought. There’s freakin metal (I call them tin foil) studs throughout except exterior walls. So we’re attempting to hang cabinets in our laundry room and there is luckily a 2x4 across like this but it’s 24” down the wall and wouldn’t align with the “top” of a cabinet. So I’m just hoping that it’s going to be enough to hold them up. We will reinforce other areas too but the only true hold will be into that 2x4.
😂😂😂😂😂🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
I just use duck tape...
That's a joke woke world...
Can you say micro-aggression? I don't think it's the "woke world" that's performing hack jobs, it's typically slumlords or sleaze-ball contractors 😉
Or just make your walls from real building materials like stone, concrete or bricks. Wood studs are for your garden shed
🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
have fun when you want to renovate.