Great to see someone review the standee version. That time commitment, man... if you had a gaming group that got together once a month for 3 hours, this game would be a multi-year endeavor! 😮
I really appreciate your take on the non-miniature retail edition, I didnt even know there was one! I saw all those minis and said to myself "Whelp, this is something I'll never get to play..", but now it seems a bit more approachable (financially speaking). Excellent review, thanks!
One of the few reviews I’ve seen for this game that’s actually got some criticism. Most others are just gushing with nothing but positives. Glad to hear that you still really liked the game.
Totally agree with you that the base should be hex-shaped as well. We just played the deluxe version today and kept trying to figure out which side of the boss we were attacking and where the minions where spawning from "behind" the boss. The battle mechanic is the stand out, but that was only after playing one boss encounter.
Ty for the review. Also nice to see a video showing the standee version. I know there is a lot of hype for miniatures but for people who are not interested in painting, extra cost, storage, it is nice to be acknowledged (hey we exist!).
No problem! Yeah people will chuck money into anything. Mosaic is a great example lately. I'm tempted by it, but the Colossus costs so much money and honestly I think the full colour minis look crap.
Thanks for the fair review! The 3h per chapter aspect helps me save a lot of money on this game and focus on the upcoming KS for the Cthulhu Death May Die 3rd season.
Thanks Luke that's really helpful overall. In our house the games that run close to 3 hours have stuff competition, so a complex and fiddly game, even if fun, would definitely not get finished, and would be especially frustrating if the leveling up was lackluster after the time put in. I could see buying this huge game, liking certain aspects, then my wife and I constantly picking massive darkness 2 off the shelf instead. Great review!
Adding my thoughts as I listened through the review. - The story part has more impact than perceived in the first missions. It allows to gain combat tokens, you gain allies which impact the future episodes but also might double as great back up fighters for the encounter, if finished quickly, it grants extra unique items, seeing the boss rules before the encounter let’s you figure out whether to pack more defence, or attack or knock back abilities (depending on the size and attack pool). I agree it would be great to have more details though to make it even more impactful. - as to the rules, there is a great video series on TH-cam that goes through a lot of it. I love the index too! There are some edge cases, but over the 7 chapters I played so far, they are not game determined - totally agree on the circular bases!! I wonder if they’ll do hex adapters in the second Kickstarter - I love the minis. However, I sold my terrain expansion since the houses were blocking the board too much and made it tricky to moves stuff around. So totally agree with you. The mini bosses are awesome though. I didn’t get the armoury since I didn’t want to paint 10 pairs of arms for each character 😂 - playing solo, I average 90-120 for encounter. Defo not 3h ( playing two companions and two full oathsworns) - the mechanic of losing 1 or 2 items each encounter keeps it fresh and forces to plan the backpack wisely - -
-Gaining tokens isn't as "awesome" as all that if we're talking epic changes :P - rules should be understandable from the box though and not require third parties to fill in the gaps - they need to, or if not at least mark the bases to represent arcs. - Ha ha yes, terarin and big minis blocks LOS literally! :P - the 3 hours is combined story and encounter. Though my first encounter probably took about 3 hours just trying to learn the game. - I don't even recall the losing 1-2 items thing - that was a pretty hidden rule.
Finding out about the bosses powers before a skirmish can have a big impact on the cards you take in your hand. For example, all characters have a mix of area effect or single ‘big damage’ hit cards. If fighting something that spawns rats… your gonna want to ensure you have a few area effect cards.
Except it takes five levels before you see ANY new cards. So for those five levels there is no decision space. And even after that you won't have much choice available so you will likely have your bases covered anyway.
Great review, this might be the boss battler i was looking for my collection. Vagrant song and Townsfolk tussle look a bit too light and straightforward, while kingdom death monster is too grindy and luck based on top of having to build complex miniatures 😱 (thank heavens for standees). The battle system is the most interesting feature for me in oathsworn.
great video, I got one comment on the clairvoyance. This is something that has been used in video games since the dawn of boss battlers, like super mario. You can anticipate what the boss will do. You learn it after dying multiple times. You do not want that in board games and certainly not in huge campaigns. Also, it will be tough to mimic that. So, this is not a ameritrash or d&d style of gaming. There is tactics involved there. Think of it as a "souls" type of gaming. I definitely agree with the arc note though. For your other notes, well, you got a point but they do not brake the game, or the experience
Nothing here truly breaks the game per say, but the sheer amount of commitment required puts me off wanting to finish it. I don't have 75 spare hours to devote to a single game and that's not including setup and relearning the rules every time I put the thing down.
Just to be clear depending upon the way you play the story it does effect the encounter. You have the option to get to see the encounter board prior to the fight. You can also be ambushed based on decisions you made. You also may have more or less tokens based on decisions you have made. I understand what you are saying, but how you play the story does make a difference in the encounter. We just completed chapter 10 and I am loving the story, the variety in how each story mode unfolds, and the encounters and bosses are all very different. Yes there is a learning curve, but once you are familiar with the rules it is not too complex, no more than Gloomhaven. Also the weapons or items you can acquire after each chapter do add some cool variety, and you loose one every chapter as well. This is one of the best games I have ever played. I actually purchased everything and have not regretted it for a second. The immersion is amazing. We have been playing about once a week. Depending upon our time we do the Story and the Encounter, and sometimes we just do the story and the encounter the next time we play. It does average about 3 hours per chapter total, but that is no different than some Euros. We have not regretted investing the time and our group is loving our experience.
On the time you can't compare this to a Euro game. I play that Euro game for 3 hours. I'm done. It's finished. No more until we feel like playing it another time. I don't need to commit to it for another 3 hours and another 3 and another etc. Oathsworn requires pretty much devout committment for months, possibly even years. Most would be lucky to get the same group together to play a game like this for 3 hours (minimum) once a week. It's possible for some, but it's not the norm. No more than Gloomhaven.........granted I don't like Gloomhaven but that's a complicated game in its own right, it's not exactly a benchmark. Tainted Grail despite its flaws doesn't have a ton of rules to it plus it has a tutorial scenario in it. Oathsworn could have maybe used a tutorial scenario to help. The story adjustments in the time I played weren't substantial enough. Ambush is literally who hits first. That's it. Token generation, that's not an exciting change. And like I mentioned ,seeing the board ahead of time rarely allows you to make any solid use of the information. Chances are you've most of the way through the story chapter at that point and like mentioned you don't get times where you're like "oooh weakness to bladed weapons, I'll grab my dual swords instead now".
Played 4 games on this already, beat the brood mother thrice and the level 2 boss once but i want to go at it again. With these types of games you don’t have to follow all the rules on the first few play throughs and just wing some of the rules if it gets too complicated. Just watch Oathsworn Training Camp videos an it should cover almost everything you might encounter. After playing it a couple of times we killed the Brood Mother in an hour maybe? Then come back for the next scenario once you have the time. I own the mini version and the set-up can take long so I’m actually contemplating on getting the standees from the website shop to make set-up even faster. BUT, the immersion in this game playing with the terrain and miniatures pack is quite different since those trees matter especially some characters move between trees and also line of sight makes more sense since everything is in 3D. And also the effect of seeing that boss miniature for the first time is like, how the hell do I kill this big boss (and that’s just the 2nd scenario). The battle is varied and as early as the second one you’ll understand Oathsworn encounters are not a rinse and repeat thing, these reviews only explained the first but they didn’t go through the second or even 3rd and you’ll understand why the games is designed that way once you’ve reached it. Having also owned and Etherfields and played Marvel Zombicide, I’d say Oathsworn is a game thats easier to jump in than Etherfields definitely (I still can’t figure out how to start the game by the way) and once you go over the videos a few times you’ll understand the design and mechanics and everything just makes sense. Against Zombicide well, Zombicide takes less brain power and is more relaxing to play than Oathsworn definitely. But for me, this gane is THE GAME to play especially if you love dungeon crawlers. The equipment upgrade per level more than makes up for the lack of ability upgrades and you will feel more powerful as you get more powerful equipment. One thing I did to understand the rules more is just keep on playing against the first boss a couple of times so I can remember most of the rules so when you get to later scenarios the game will be more enjoyable.
Now that's what I call an honest and critic review! Pity of the leveling and not having real class specific gear. Kinda really sucks. I've pledged. It's gonna be my real first table top dungeoncrawler. Coming from Karak and Chronicles of Avel. Either way, gonna be an upgrade. Great video amigo!
Thank you so much! And yes, so honest that the publisher never put it on the Kickstarter page despite my high rating. Such is the way of the industry. You have to shower it with praise to be considered.
@@TheBrokenMeeple THAT'S why I love this so much!! Sellers will never publish it publicly! I have the same thing with my esk8 scene. But you'll be love and be known for it even more! Kudos amigo!
great Honest review. I also have the standee version, still in shrink, staring at me from my shelf. but being a solo player, I just knew this was too much game for me to ever get through.
I don't know what you have in your house occupying table time, but this is worth jumping in front of the queue. Play a few chapters and see for yourself :)
Though bare in mind that those first two chapters will take you a LONG time to get comfortable with everything. And oh yeah we didn't mention the hours to unwrap and package it up.
I'm at the other end of the gaming spectrum - I love streamlined, few components, filler plus and small to medium in size - just about the polar opposite. I mean, for a start, look at the size of that box - I can only imagine how heavy/dense it is, physically and from a gaming perspective. Gimme Rumble Nation or Caesar! any day, seriously :)
The length is probably not an issue if that's your only dungeon crawler. I've done 155 games of Gloomhaven and I'm looking to do as many games of Frosthaven, so I certainly don't need this one, as cool as it looks.
It's just 21 chapters, and only very few chapters have a disconnect between the boss and the story. The vast majority has the boss being an integral part of the actual story.. From a campaign game side, this is SIGNIFICANTLY shorter than Gloomhaven and Tainted Grail. I'm not a campaign guy, and I've pretty much completed this
That's like saying the suez canal is shorter than river nile. Gloomhaven had way too much content for anyone's own good but that doesn't give this a free pass for being shorter than that. And if the story does connect better then it needed to do that a lot sooner than it was currently. You have to get people hooked early.
Thanks for the review. The FOMO was strong but your review helped me decide to give this a pass. I never finished Gloomhaven. The time and financial investment needed is just too daunting.
Lol I said between 20 and 24 at one point :P And even then that's still A TON of content! 10 chapters would have been more than enough, then make further 10 chapter campaigns and some standalone scenarios.
I think this is the type of game that would be better on the PC. I was considering it based on all the hype, but like you Luke, I’ll never get through it. I’d sink all that time, money and shelf space for a couple chapters. Digital format would be less of an investment, easier to “table” and the programming could deal with a vast majority of those nuanced rules. Games like this are clearly best as a solo experience, and I don’t need all that tangible crap just to put on a show for myself. And with this one, 1/3 of the game isn’t even tangible; it’s a story… that is already professionally narrated! I truly don’t understand why more dev teams don’t focus on a digital format, especially when it’s a popular game and they’re coming back for a 2nd or 3rd Kickstarter. The market has become so saturated with games that most who have been in the hobby for even just a couple years are now starting to shy away from things because their collections are so bloated they don’t have the time or physical space to justify adding more. Digital has no footprint, is far more accessible and can be purchased at any time (not just in the few months when the campaign is going). From the dev’s perspective, it allows for bigger margins because there’s not all the print / shipping costs, errata and revisions are easily fixed via patch and they could have ongoing revenue stream with DLC
I agree the rules in this game is just bonkers. I had a week off for covid and I spend a 2 days trying to learn the rules and replaying the first scenario, making new mistakes each time. why do Kickstarter games (like the great wall) feel the need to add rules upon rules upon rules.
Imo, they don't care nearly as much about streamlined gameplay and good rulebooks as they do 'cool stuff to add as stretch goals to entire the whales'. I love me some KS games but I have moved to a 'buy secondhand after the game has been out for a while and all the 40 FAQ pages/rules 2.0/fan made player aids' are out. It really saves a lot of frustration and the prices aren't really that much more if you are willing to wait or don't need every exclusive add-on.
Great as always. Here, here to standees over grey plastic blobs! I'm not a painter so they absolutely do not interest me. I wish more companies would give you both options. I don't see myself getting this.. Gloomhaven took my buddy and I forever to complete. The only reason we managed to do it was because we were both unemployed at the time. Generally speaking, I have no idea how people manage to find the time.
Good review. I’ve been looking at this game for a while and I’m close to backing it. It would be my first campaign game but the time and financial commitment is big. You said 10 chapters would be enough is there any other campaign/legacy games (not pandemic) with a rich story you would recommend, that are shorter? I would just be playing with my wife so the games would need to work at 2 players.
Roll Player Adventures was only 10 scenarios so it wasn't short, but didn't outstay itself! The LCG's like Arkham also have very good campaigns. My best campaign was an expansion to This War Of Mine - only 3 Acts but packed full of story.
@@garycunningham9782 played with wifey thru half, then took over solo, as my drive to play is much higher. I wanted to play Oathsworn multiple times a week, and that's not something she was willing to increase. It became ofc easier to jump in bc of the flexibility, and it still lots of fun solo. One thing Luke said and is fair... ppl commiting to 60-70h can be hard. If your group however miss a player here and there occasionally, it's very ok to play without 1-2 and explain what happened in the next session.
Most people will be unavailable to play every week and there's a ton of other games to play. It's hard to have people commit to an extended length game for that long - people eventually get bored doing the same thing over and over in a short space of time.
I'm finding it odd you found the story to be disconnected with the encounters. I've only played a handful of board game campaigns and I found the thematic connection to be the exact opposite of what you said
The story sections didn't feel like they influenced the encounter enough. You might get a tiny change in the opening but otherwise it felt like a separate game.
Decided to back it after finding out about the standee version. My days of getting miniatures and TCG cards are over. Im taking a bit of a risk still as I am still unsure if I will ever truly play it. Group play is out of the question. Still have 20 min games we have never played from years ago at absolute best I may get one 3 player mission going if I skip to just encounter as only 2 of my friends will even entertain playing anything like this. Looking forward to trying it however and if I enjoy it I will make an effort to play solo. If not I will likely just sell it. I bought Conan years ago on kickstarter and have hardly touched it but it didnt help with that game that it required multiple players and the rulebook was about as useful as a chocolate fireguard. I should really just sell that game tbh. I want to play some more but its never going to happen.
@@jl3612 I dont play (non digital) solo games much but I am not against the idea and when I do I usually have fun. I also play computer games a fair bit and there is also a lot of those I want to play that I never got around to back in the day especially SNES - PS2 era so tend to play those or read a book on my leisure time tbh as they are quicker to just pick up than the solo card and board games I own. I am going through a few games on tabletop simulator solo and enjoying it a fair bit. I have also recently come into possession of the Legend of Five rings LCG (all of it) and the new starter box of Arkham Horror so will be making an effort to play those solo and I have a couple of adventure books that really intrigue me so will also be trying them especially as I think they will be easy to just pick up and play in my spare time and not have to schedule around them. I just love games and stories in general so any way I can engage with them is fine by me and your right that solo gaming certainly has its benefits and is even preferable (or essential) in some games depending on how its designed ofc.
Yeah everyone is all about miniatures. Mark Dainty for some reason got sent the all in pledge to review...........not jelly at all..........but I'm glad i got to play with the retail version to see how it compares.
@@TheBrokenMeeple The standee version isn't the "retail version" (and it's not easier to get as you state at the beginning). There is no retail version for this, the only current copies of the game in the wild are directly from the kickstarter
The story part has more impact later in the game and i see you did not play this a lot when you are talking about story mode and 1h game play :) . And yes its investment but you can play story mode one day and then encunter another day. They are very separated things so you have 2h one day and 2-3h next day day and that is avrage gametime per day. You can play every chapter like standalone scenario. Just do qiuck level up depending on a chapter you are and you are good to play. Iam at ch11 right now and hiden monsters are helping a lot for that i dont stop playing this game.
I played this long enough and didn't see much of that impact. If it comes through by Chapter 11 then great, but i don't expect to need 30+ hours of play before I see that impact. The quick level up is not as desirable as you think. Those players will miss out on story (instant action doesn't fill in enough blanks) and you're going to be teaching an increased amount to them because of extra cards and potential mechanics.
@@TheBrokenMeeple impact is in how much tokens will i collect or spend on this story, will i be starting with full power, get some new ally, get amushed or se the encauter special rules so i can se if he has minions, get some extra items at the end of chapter it all adds up at the end. If you would like to plqy single scenario with some people to show them how to fight. Why would you care for story then? If they are new then to the game just give them some easy characters to play. New cards are not that diffrent then basic. And monsters dont have some special hard rules or something like that. All rules are on one board. But i understand you and how you are playing much more games then me and dont have so much time on one board game. Oh and i like your reviews one of few who does not like every game they review.
I still have not found a campaign game that I can stomach. AH LCG is the only one and that's a card game really. They take usually too long to setup, fiddly, narratively subpar or even not engaging gameplay wise. My wife and I managed to finished Jaws of Lion over more than a year and it was just ok. The card play is great but everything brings it down for us.
Haven't watched the video yet and you might adress this in the video,but is this game preferably a solo game? I wil only buy this if solo is the way to go😁
I only played mine solo because I can't get a group of 4 that dedicated to a game that's 21 scenarios long and needs 60-75 hours to finish. If that's your situation as well, then yeah grab it solo.
I don't understand why playing a standalone scenario is easier than playing one campaign scenario. Is it just because it fuels your FOMO? What makes a standalone scenario better?
@@TheBrokenMeeple got it, so the challenge is playing the game with different groups of people. Makes sense; less of an issue for me as I have a pretty stable group.
@@TheBrokenMeeple Thanks for the review! I am not a fan of having to run/play more than one character in a game (when there are less than X players) but I will look into the companion mode to see how much management of the other three would be needed if I wanted to solo it.
Dude, just glue the minis except their arms. Makes them way more rigid and is not particularly hard. Most the problems mentioned here are not something I relate to at all to be honest. I mean man, just put in the standee the right way round so the front of the artwork actually faces the front, there is a reason the art has 2 sides afterall, and on top of that there is an arrow. Where exactly is the problem telling where it faces and where which ark is? Still, good to get another angle.
You really think I'm putting the standee in backwards? So four separate arcs that use different numbers of hexes and shapes each, you don't think they could have made it a touch easier to tell arcs from a clear plastic circular base on hexagons? With a dinky little arrow as the only guide? Come on, that's a little forgiving.
@@TheBrokenMeeple Well, you did in the video 😂 as I said, really can't relate to a lot of the problems at all, so I couldn't tell. Like critizing a big box campaign game for being a big box campaign game. That's just what that game wants to be, a review should look into if it succeeds in that, not if you would've liked it to be something completely different. But that's just my opinion.😁 As I said, I did not have problems so far. You know the hive-shape giant monsters are standing on and just apply that, it's always the same. Giant enemy movement is pretty unintuitive though, I'll give you that!
This day and age we need more innovating in games and consideration of a wider audience. Have a long campaign, but why not a few standalones allowing for multiple teaching games? And would 2-4 short stories have been bad? Same number of scenarios but more digest able.
@@TheBrokenMeeple Oh, One-Shots absolutely have their upside, totally get why that would appeal! But that's just not the game Shadowborne wanted to do, they wanted a long-form campaign. And I think that's totally fine, not every game has to be everything. There are a ton of games, if I want a campaign I can get this, if I want oneshots I can get Cthulhu Death May Die or something like that! I prefer games that know what they want to be and stick with that instead of trying to appeal to as broad of a crowd as possible. With Quick-Leveling, Oathsworn is one-shottable by they way! Though I agree, does not seem like the optimal way to play.
It took me 240 hours to 100% Elden Ring. 65+ hour Oathsworn campaign is short in comparison. I have a dedicated gaming table so I'll never put the game away until I finish it.
By comparison yes, if I want to compare 75+ hour Oathsworn to the 500+ hours I have in Deep Rock Galactic. But it only takes you 60 seconds to switch on your PS5 and get playing Elden Ring, it takes nigh on 20-30 minutes to set up an Oathsworn game. And then you can just turn your PS5 off upon saving.
@@TheBrokenMeeple This is my problem with the review. You keep emphasizing that the story and setup takes too long and it needs to be a lot shorter. You could have said this board game is for someone looking to do an entire campaign. However, the whole video felt like you wanted a rogue-like game such as Rogue Galaxy but you got Elden Ring and you didn't want to put any time investment into it. This video needs to be an impressions video instead. Imagine watching an IGN video review of Elden Ring and the person only played 3 hours in total. I'd say a review is if you finished the campaign and you tell how it was instead of doing 1-3 scenarios. You also noted in the review to give us a 45 hour campaign instead of 72 hours since that is a better size. That is like making a video game and cutting it short and selling the rest as DLC.
Incorrect. If you don't like a video game after the first say 10-20 hours of play, what do you think is going to suddenly change in the next 30-40? All that you get that is different is more story reveals, the mechanics of the game don't fundamentally change.
I do feel that many of the criticsms are nit-picks and take a lot of time in the video for a 8/10 game. One such comment, though, does stand out to me that the big bosses should have hex-based stands - that would really help. As for one-shot scenarios, there is nothing stopping anyone from (for eg) playing chapter 10 (or any other chapter), quick-leveling characters, running through the quick story-mode and off you go. Set up would be no different to other boss-battlers. The difference here to is that there are then 21 unique fights to be had.
I disagree they are nitpicks but it's a case of whether they affect you or not. Many will simply ignore criticisms to sound overly positive. Plus even a 10/10 game can have flaws and this game only just got an 8, I heavily debated 7.
Strongly disagree with the story impacting the combat. Saying because “you stubbed your toe” instead “accidental murder.” Downplays the kind of big story beats. You gain lose health, tokens, knowledge of the boss, and ambush. All matter quite a lot how much you get. Knowledge of the boss allows you to customise your deck for that battle - one boss has minions Vs no minions will can drastically change what cards work. Ambush means the boss gets one whole extra attack round. That can make a big difference seeing how close the fighrs can be.
Books are technology; as are boardgames; technology actually means art, craft and the cunning of hand; computers and apps actually take technology away from our hands. That board, card and dice is tech. Scrap the app.
This game is so niche… I wonder why you take the time to review those as I don’t think they will generate you tons of views… even though it’s the current hotness.
That and the publisher did offer to send me a review copy and I wanted to play this game but didn't originally back it. Think of the review as a bonus as I was glad to play the game anyway.
Niche? I disagree. It's a Dungeon Crawler, and that is a mainstream genre. HeroQuest was out over 30 years ago, so plenty of time has passed in the hobby to allow these types of games to evolve. With Gloomhaven and JOTL (available at Target) at #1, that alone erodes any idea that this is niche.
@@clvrswine hero quest didn't weigh 20 kilos, cost a ton of cash, have 3 rulebooks and demand 3 hours of game time per scenario minimum. As good as Oathsworn is, its a niche title much like Gloomhaven is.
Great to see someone review the standee version. That time commitment, man... if you had a gaming group that got together once a month for 3 hours, this game would be a multi-year endeavor! 😮
I really appreciate your take on the non-miniature retail edition, I didnt even know there was one! I saw all those minis and said to myself "Whelp, this is something I'll never get to play..", but now it seems a bit more approachable (financially speaking). Excellent review, thanks!
Glad it's helped! I do think the cost is a bit obscene for the all in.
One of the few reviews I’ve seen for this game that’s actually got some criticism. Most others are just gushing with nothing but positives. Glad to hear that you still really liked the game.
Glad to be here as the voice of reason - sadly you won't see my review on the KS page I suspect because I have actual criticisms.
Totally agree with you that the base should be hex-shaped as well. We just played the deluxe version today and kept trying to figure out which side of the boss we were attacking and where the minions where spawning from "behind" the boss.
The battle mechanic is the stand out, but that was only after playing one boss encounter.
One of those "too big to devote a life to" games.
Ty for the review. Also nice to see a video showing the standee version. I know there is a lot of hype for miniatures but for people who are not interested in painting, extra cost, storage, it is nice to be acknowledged (hey we exist!).
No problem! Yeah people will chuck money into anything. Mosaic is a great example lately. I'm tempted by it, but the Colossus costs so much money and honestly I think the full colour minis look crap.
Thanks for the fair review! The 3h per chapter aspect helps me save a lot of money on this game and focus on the upcoming KS for the Cthulhu Death May Die 3rd season.
I really need to try that game but it's impossible to find!!!
@@TheBrokenMeeple CDMD is great fun. Should be a lot easier to find as season 3 campaign is starting right around the end of the month (Oct).
Thanks Luke that's really helpful overall. In our house the games that run close to 3 hours have stuff competition, so a complex and fiddly game, even if fun, would definitely not get finished, and would be especially frustrating if the leveling up was lackluster after the time put in. I could see buying this huge game, liking certain aspects, then my wife and I constantly picking massive darkness 2 off the shelf instead.
Great review!
Glad it helped!
Adding my thoughts as I listened through the review.
- The story part has more impact than perceived in the first missions. It allows to gain combat tokens, you gain allies which impact the future episodes but also might double as great back up fighters for the encounter, if finished quickly, it grants extra unique items, seeing the boss rules before the encounter let’s you figure out whether to pack more defence, or attack or knock back abilities (depending on the size and attack pool). I agree it would be great to have more details though to make it even more impactful.
- as to the rules, there is a great video series on TH-cam that goes through a lot of it. I love the index too! There are some edge cases, but over the 7 chapters I played so far, they are not game determined
- totally agree on the circular bases!! I wonder if they’ll do hex adapters in the second Kickstarter
- I love the minis. However, I sold my terrain expansion since the houses were blocking the board too much and made it tricky to moves stuff around. So totally agree with you. The mini bosses are awesome though. I didn’t get the armoury since I didn’t want to paint 10 pairs of arms for each character 😂
- playing solo, I average 90-120 for encounter. Defo not 3h ( playing two companions and two full oathsworns)
- the mechanic of losing 1 or 2 items each encounter keeps it fresh and forces to plan the backpack wisely
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-Gaining tokens isn't as "awesome" as all that if we're talking epic changes :P
- rules should be understandable from the box though and not require third parties to fill in the gaps
- they need to, or if not at least mark the bases to represent arcs.
- Ha ha yes, terarin and big minis blocks LOS literally! :P
- the 3 hours is combined story and encounter. Though my first encounter probably took about 3 hours just trying to learn the game.
- I don't even recall the losing 1-2 items thing - that was a pretty hidden rule.
The tally,loot,lose sequence is where it talks about the item destruction.
Finding out about the bosses powers before a skirmish can have a big impact on the cards you take in your hand. For example, all characters have a mix of area effect or single ‘big damage’ hit cards. If fighting something that spawns rats… your gonna want to ensure you have a few area effect cards.
Except it takes five levels before you see ANY new cards. So for those five levels there is no decision space. And even after that you won't have much choice available so you will likely have your bases covered anyway.
@@TheBrokenMeeple That's not true at all - you get new ability cards at level 2 AND level 5
Great review, this might be the boss battler i was looking for my collection. Vagrant song and Townsfolk tussle look a bit too light and straightforward, while kingdom death monster is too grindy and luck based on top of having to build complex miniatures 😱 (thank heavens for standees). The battle system is the most interesting feature for me in oathsworn.
great video, I got one comment on the clairvoyance. This is something that has been used in video games since the dawn of boss battlers, like super mario. You can anticipate what the boss will do. You learn it after dying multiple times. You do not want that in board games and certainly not in huge campaigns. Also, it will be tough to mimic that. So, this is not a ameritrash or d&d style of gaming. There is tactics involved there. Think of it as a "souls" type of gaming.
I definitely agree with the arc note though.
For your other notes, well, you got a point but they do not brake the game, or the experience
Nothing here truly breaks the game per say, but the sheer amount of commitment required puts me off wanting to finish it. I don't have 75 spare hours to devote to a single game and that's not including setup and relearning the rules every time I put the thing down.
Just to be clear depending upon the way you play the story it does effect the encounter. You have the option to get to see the encounter board prior to the fight. You can also be ambushed based on decisions you made. You also may have more or less tokens based on decisions you have made. I understand what you are saying, but how you play the story does make a difference in the encounter. We just completed chapter 10 and I am loving the story, the variety in how each story mode unfolds, and the encounters and bosses are all very different. Yes there is a learning curve, but once you are familiar with the rules it is not too complex, no more than Gloomhaven. Also the weapons or items you can acquire after each chapter do add some cool variety, and you loose one every chapter as well. This is one of the best games I have ever played. I actually purchased everything and have not regretted it for a second. The immersion is amazing. We have been playing about once a week. Depending upon our time we do the Story and the Encounter, and sometimes we just do the story and the encounter the next time we play. It does average about 3 hours per chapter total, but that is no different than some Euros. We have not regretted investing the time and our group is loving our experience.
On the time you can't compare this to a Euro game. I play that Euro game for 3 hours. I'm done. It's finished. No more until we feel like playing it another time. I don't need to commit to it for another 3 hours and another 3 and another etc. Oathsworn requires pretty much devout committment for months, possibly even years. Most would be lucky to get the same group together to play a game like this for 3 hours (minimum) once a week. It's possible for some, but it's not the norm.
No more than Gloomhaven.........granted I don't like Gloomhaven but that's a complicated game in its own right, it's not exactly a benchmark. Tainted Grail despite its flaws doesn't have a ton of rules to it plus it has a tutorial scenario in it. Oathsworn could have maybe used a tutorial scenario to help.
The story adjustments in the time I played weren't substantial enough. Ambush is literally who hits first. That's it. Token generation, that's not an exciting change. And like I mentioned ,seeing the board ahead of time rarely allows you to make any solid use of the information. Chances are you've most of the way through the story chapter at that point and like mentioned you don't get times where you're like "oooh weakness to bladed weapons, I'll grab my dual swords instead now".
Another good honest review
Always!!
Always love your honest reviews.
One question - what would you be more likely to pick up to continue playing: Oathsworn, or ISS Vanguard?
Out of the two. . . . probably ISS Vanguard - the theme and story is better for me.
Played 4 games on this already, beat the brood mother thrice and the level 2 boss once but i want to go at it again. With these types of games you don’t have to follow all the rules on the first few play throughs and just wing some of the rules if it gets too complicated. Just watch Oathsworn Training Camp videos an it should cover almost everything you might encounter.
After playing it a couple of times we killed the Brood Mother in an hour maybe? Then come back for the next scenario once you have the time. I own the mini version and the set-up can take long so I’m actually contemplating on getting the standees from the website shop to make set-up even faster. BUT, the immersion in this game playing with the terrain and miniatures pack is quite different since those trees matter especially some characters move between trees and also line of sight makes more sense since everything is in 3D. And also the effect of seeing that boss miniature for the first time is like, how the hell do I kill this big boss (and that’s just the 2nd scenario).
The battle is varied and as early as the second one you’ll understand Oathsworn encounters are not a rinse and repeat thing, these reviews only explained the first but they didn’t go through the second or even 3rd and you’ll understand why the games is designed that way once you’ve reached it.
Having also owned and Etherfields and played Marvel Zombicide, I’d say Oathsworn is a game thats easier to jump in than Etherfields definitely (I still can’t figure out how to start the game by the way) and once you go over the videos a few times you’ll understand the design and mechanics and everything just makes sense. Against Zombicide well, Zombicide takes less brain power and is more relaxing to play than Oathsworn definitely. But for me, this gane is THE GAME to play especially if you love dungeon crawlers. The equipment upgrade per level more than makes up for the lack of ability upgrades and you will feel more powerful as you get more powerful equipment.
One thing I did to understand the rules more is just keep on playing against the first boss a couple of times so I can remember most of the rules so when you get to later scenarios the game will be more enjoyable.
Now that's what I call an honest and critic review! Pity of the leveling and not having real class specific gear. Kinda really sucks. I've pledged. It's gonna be my real first table top dungeoncrawler. Coming from Karak and Chronicles of Avel. Either way, gonna be an upgrade. Great video amigo!
Thank you so much! And yes, so honest that the publisher never put it on the Kickstarter page despite my high rating. Such is the way of the industry. You have to shower it with praise to be considered.
@@TheBrokenMeeple THAT'S why I love this so much!! Sellers will never publish it publicly! I have the same thing with my esk8 scene. But you'll be love and be known for it even more! Kudos amigo!
great Honest review. I also have the standee version, still in shrink, staring at me from my shelf. but being a solo player, I just knew this was too much game for me to ever get through.
I don't know what you have in your house occupying table time, but this is worth jumping in front of the queue. Play a few chapters and see for yourself :)
Though bare in mind that those first two chapters will take you a LONG time to get comfortable with everything. And oh yeah we didn't mention the hours to unwrap and package it up.
I'm at the other end of the gaming spectrum - I love streamlined, few components, filler plus and small to medium in size - just about the polar opposite. I mean, for a start, look at the size of that box - I can only imagine how heavy/dense it is, physically and from a gaming perspective. Gimme Rumble Nation or Caesar! any day, seriously :)
Which is cool and if that's the case, you won't want this! :P
The length is probably not an issue if that's your only dungeon crawler. I've done 155 games of Gloomhaven and I'm looking to do as many games of Frosthaven, so I certainly don't need this one, as cool as it looks.
If you are able to devote the time its worth it, otherwise it's too much investment.
It's just 21 chapters, and only very few chapters have a disconnect between the boss and the story. The vast majority has the boss being an integral part of the actual story..
From a campaign game side, this is SIGNIFICANTLY shorter than Gloomhaven and Tainted Grail. I'm not a campaign guy, and I've pretty much completed this
That's like saying the suez canal is shorter than river nile. Gloomhaven had way too much content for anyone's own good but that doesn't give this a free pass for being shorter than that.
And if the story does connect better then it needed to do that a lot sooner than it was currently. You have to get people hooked early.
Thanks for the review. The FOMO was strong but your review helped me decide to give this a pass. I never finished Gloomhaven. The time and financial investment needed is just too daunting.
Glad I could help! Certainly you need to know how much of a time/money sink it is despite how fun the gameplay is.
Unless there's more secret stuff that I'm unaware, the game goes until chapter 21, not 24.
Boom, shaved 10h of commitment for you! ^^
Lol I said between 20 and 24 at one point :P And even then that's still A TON of content! 10 chapters would have been more than enough, then make further 10 chapter campaigns and some standalone scenarios.
I think this is the type of game that would be better on the PC. I was considering it based on all the hype, but like you Luke, I’ll never get through it. I’d sink all that time, money and shelf space for a couple chapters. Digital format would be less of an investment, easier to “table” and the programming could deal with a vast majority of those nuanced rules. Games like this are clearly best as a solo experience, and I don’t need all that tangible crap just to put on a show for myself. And with this one, 1/3 of the game isn’t even tangible; it’s a story… that is already professionally narrated!
I truly don’t understand why more dev teams don’t focus on a digital format, especially when it’s a popular game and they’re coming back for a 2nd or 3rd Kickstarter. The market has become so saturated with games that most who have been in the hobby for even just a couple years are now starting to shy away from things because their collections are so bloated they don’t have the time or physical space to justify adding more. Digital has no footprint, is far more accessible and can be purchased at any time (not just in the few months when the campaign is going). From the dev’s perspective, it allows for bigger margins because there’s not all the print / shipping costs, errata and revisions are easily fixed via patch and they could have ongoing revenue stream with DLC
Actually yeah I'd be down for a digital implementation.
Very good review, thanks a lot!
You're welcome!
I agree the rules in this game is just bonkers. I had a week off for covid and I spend a 2 days trying to learn the rules and replaying the first scenario, making new mistakes each time.
why do Kickstarter games (like the great wall) feel the need to add rules upon rules upon rules.
Imo, they don't care nearly as much about streamlined gameplay and good rulebooks as they do 'cool stuff to add as stretch goals to entire the whales'. I love me some KS games but I have moved to a 'buy secondhand after the game has been out for a while and all the 40 FAQ pages/rules 2.0/fan made player aids' are out. It really saves a lot of frustration and the prices aren't really that much more if you are willing to wait or don't need every exclusive add-on.
Sounds about right. User friendliness is a key aspect of games and many KS fans are just so willing to gloss over that.
Great as always. Here, here to standees over grey plastic blobs! I'm not a painter so they absolutely do not interest me. I wish more companies would give you both options.
I don't see myself getting this.. Gloomhaven took my buddy and I forever to complete. The only reason we managed to do it was because we were both unemployed at the time. Generally speaking, I have no idea how people manage to find the time.
Indeed! The game is good fun, but man that commitment is intense. Gloomhaven was ridiculous.
Good review. I’ve been looking at this game for a while and I’m close to backing it. It would be my first campaign game but the time and financial commitment is big. You said 10 chapters would be enough is there any other campaign/legacy games (not pandemic) with a rich story you would recommend, that are shorter? I would just be playing with my wife so the games would need to work at 2 players.
Roll Player Adventures was only 10 scenarios so it wasn't short, but didn't outstay itself! The LCG's like Arkham also have very good campaigns. My best campaign was an expansion to This War Of Mine - only 3 Acts but packed full of story.
Sword and sorcery
Some have gripes with it, but Tainted Grail with some house ruling for streamlining the grind does a lot for me
I'm at ch 17, prob going to do another one today. Excellent game to my taste :)
Are you playing solo or in a group?
@@garycunningham9782 played with wifey thru half, then took over solo, as my drive to play is much higher. I wanted to play Oathsworn multiple times a week, and that's not something she was willing to increase. It became ofc easier to jump in bc of the flexibility, and it still lots of fun solo.
One thing Luke said and is fair... ppl commiting to 60-70h can be hard. If your group however miss a player here and there occasionally, it's very ok to play without 1-2 and explain what happened in the next session.
Most people will be unavailable to play every week and there's a ton of other games to play. It's hard to have people commit to an extended length game for that long - people eventually get bored doing the same thing over and over in a short space of time.
I'm finding it odd you found the story to be disconnected with the encounters. I've only played a handful of board game campaigns and I found the thematic connection to be the exact opposite of what you said
The story sections didn't feel like they influenced the encounter enough. You might get a tiny change in the opening but otherwise it felt like a separate game.
Decided to back it after finding out about the standee version. My days of getting miniatures and TCG cards are over. Im taking a bit of a risk still as I am still unsure if I will ever truly play it. Group play is out of the question. Still have 20 min games we have never played from years ago at absolute best I may get one 3 player mission going if I skip to just encounter as only 2 of my friends will even entertain playing anything like this. Looking forward to trying it however and if I enjoy it I will make an effort to play solo. If not I will likely just sell it.
I bought Conan years ago on kickstarter and have hardly touched it but it didnt help with that game that it required multiple players and the rulebook was about as useful as a chocolate fireguard. I should really just sell that game tbh. I want to play some more but its never going to happen.
@@jl3612 I dont play (non digital) solo games much but I am not against the idea and when I do I usually have fun. I also play computer games a fair bit and there is also a lot of those I want to play that I never got around to back in the day especially SNES - PS2 era so tend to play those or read a book on my leisure time tbh as they are quicker to just pick up than the solo card and board games I own.
I am going through a few games on tabletop simulator solo and enjoying it a fair bit. I have also recently come into possession of the Legend of Five rings LCG (all of it) and the new starter box of Arkham Horror so will be making an effort to play those solo and I have a couple of adventure books that really intrigue me so will also be trying them especially as I think they will be easy to just pick up and play in my spare time and not have to schedule around them.
I just love games and stories in general so any way I can engage with them is fine by me and your right that solo gaming certainly has its benefits and is even preferable (or essential) in some games depending on how its designed ofc.
" ...or are you a solo player who literally has more time on your hands than God?!" 🤣🤣🤣
My favourite comment in any board game review, ever.
😁
Thank you for touching on the standee version, its the only version i would get and its dam near like it does not exist, no pics no mention.
Yeah everyone is all about miniatures. Mark Dainty for some reason got sent the all in pledge to review...........not jelly at all..........but I'm glad i got to play with the retail version to see how it compares.
@@TheBrokenMeeple The standee version isn't the "retail version" (and it's not easier to get as you state at the beginning).
There is no retail version for this, the only current copies of the game in the wild are directly from the kickstarter
The story part has more impact later in the game and i see you did not play this a lot when you are talking about story mode and 1h game play :) .
And yes its investment but you can play story mode one day and then encunter another day. They are very separated things so you have 2h one day and 2-3h next day day and that is avrage gametime per day.
You can play every chapter like standalone scenario. Just do qiuck level up depending on a chapter you are and you are good to play.
Iam at ch11 right now and hiden monsters are helping a lot for that i dont stop playing this game.
I played this long enough and didn't see much of that impact. If it comes through by Chapter 11 then great, but i don't expect to need 30+ hours of play before I see that impact. The quick level up is not as desirable as you think. Those players will miss out on story (instant action doesn't fill in enough blanks) and you're going to be teaching an increased amount to them because of extra cards and potential mechanics.
@@TheBrokenMeeple impact is in how much tokens will i collect or spend on this story, will i be starting with full power, get some new ally, get amushed or se the encauter special rules so i can se if he has minions, get some extra items at the end of chapter it all adds up at the end. If you would like to plqy single scenario with some people to show them how to fight. Why would you care for story then?
If they are new then to the game just give them some easy characters to play. New cards are not that diffrent then basic. And monsters dont have some special hard rules or something like that.
All rules are on one board.
But i understand you and how you are playing much more games then me and dont have so much time on one board game.
Oh and i like your reviews one of few who does not like every game they review.
I forget - which does Luke prefer Lotr Journey into Earth or Descent Legends in the Dark?
LOTR - Legends was disappointing.
I still have not found a campaign game that I can stomach. AH LCG is the only one and that's a card game really. They take usually too long to setup, fiddly, narratively subpar or even not engaging gameplay wise. My wife and I managed to finished Jaws of Lion over more than a year and it was just ok. The card play is great but everything brings it down for us.
Yeah campaigns can be a pain to get completed. Ah LCG is the easiest
WHAT! NO STANDEE TREES? now back to your review.
Lol! Yeah you just get stumps :P
Haven't watched the video yet and you might adress this in the video,but is this game preferably a solo game? I wil only buy this if solo is the way to go😁
I only played mine solo because I can't get a group of 4 that dedicated to a game that's 21 scenarios long and needs 60-75 hours to finish. If that's your situation as well, then yeah grab it solo.
@@TheBrokenMeeple ok, gonna buy it then. Thanks for the reply👍 Great video by the way,very helpful 😁
Think it's really good for solo or is it more like Gloomhaven - soloable but better multi?
Oh honestly I think it's great solo.
I don't understand why playing a standalone scenario is easier than playing one campaign scenario. Is it just because it fuels your FOMO? What makes a standalone scenario better?
Because you're asking people new to the game to just accept a story in mid progress without getting the full bringing experience.
@@TheBrokenMeeple got it, so the challenge is playing the game with different groups of people. Makes sense; less of an issue for me as I have a pretty stable group.
Do you prefer Oathsworn or Tainted Grail?
Tainted Grail - the story/setting/world building is better.
Story mode aside, how does it rate for you in the 'boss battler' genre?
I prefer the encounter mode to the story mode, but it rates about the same.
@@TheBrokenMeeple Thanks for the review! I am not a fan of having to run/play more than one character in a game (when there are less than X players) but I will look into the companion mode to see how much management of the other three would be needed if I wanted to solo it.
Dude, just glue the minis except their arms. Makes them way more rigid and is not particularly hard.
Most the problems mentioned here are not something I relate to at all to be honest. I mean man, just put in the standee the right way round so the front of the artwork actually faces the front, there is a reason the art has 2 sides afterall, and on top of that there is an arrow. Where exactly is the problem telling where it faces and where which ark is? Still, good to get another angle.
You really think I'm putting the standee in backwards? So four separate arcs that use different numbers of hexes and shapes each, you don't think they could have made it a touch easier to tell arcs from a clear plastic circular base on hexagons? With a dinky little arrow as the only guide? Come on, that's a little forgiving.
@@TheBrokenMeeple Well, you did in the video 😂 as I said, really can't relate to a lot of the problems at all, so I couldn't tell. Like critizing a big box campaign game for being a big box campaign game. That's just what that game wants to be, a review should look into if it succeeds in that, not if you would've liked it to be something completely different. But that's just my opinion.😁
As I said, I did not have problems so far. You know the hive-shape giant monsters are standing on and just apply that, it's always the same.
Giant enemy movement is pretty unintuitive though, I'll give you that!
@@TheBrokenMeeple Thanks for the answer and video by the way! As I said, still got something out of it!
This day and age we need more innovating in games and consideration of a wider audience. Have a long campaign, but why not a few standalones allowing for multiple teaching games? And would 2-4 short stories have been bad? Same number of scenarios but more digest able.
@@TheBrokenMeeple Oh, One-Shots absolutely have their upside, totally get why that would appeal! But that's just not the game Shadowborne wanted to do, they wanted a long-form campaign. And I think that's totally fine, not every game has to be everything. There are a ton of games, if I want a campaign I can get this, if I want oneshots I can get Cthulhu Death May Die or something like that! I prefer games that know what they want to be and stick with that instead of trying to appeal to as broad of a crowd as possible.
With Quick-Leveling, Oathsworn is one-shottable by they way! Though I agree, does not seem like the optimal way to play.
Yeah just house rule everything you don't like. Each to their own but you're essentially disregarding the designers reason and playtesting.
Games don't get brownie points if house rules fix the errors of a designer.
It took me 240 hours to 100% Elden Ring. 65+ hour Oathsworn campaign is short in comparison. I have a dedicated gaming table so I'll never put the game away until I finish it.
By comparison yes, if I want to compare 75+ hour Oathsworn to the 500+ hours I have in Deep Rock Galactic. But it only takes you 60 seconds to switch on your PS5 and get playing Elden Ring, it takes nigh on 20-30 minutes to set up an Oathsworn game. And then you can just turn your PS5 off upon saving.
@@TheBrokenMeeple This is my problem with the review. You keep emphasizing that the story and setup takes too long and it needs to be a lot shorter. You could have said this board game is for someone looking to do an entire campaign. However, the whole video felt like you wanted a rogue-like game such as Rogue Galaxy but you got Elden Ring and you didn't want to put any time investment into it.
This video needs to be an impressions video instead. Imagine watching an IGN video review of Elden Ring and the person only played 3 hours in total. I'd say a review is if you finished the campaign and you tell how it was instead of doing 1-3 scenarios.
You also noted in the review to give us a 45 hour campaign instead of 72 hours since that is a better size. That is like making a video game and cutting it short and selling the rest as DLC.
Incorrect. If you don't like a video game after the first say 10-20 hours of play, what do you think is going to suddenly change in the next 30-40?
All that you get that is different is more story reveals, the mechanics of the game don't fundamentally change.
I do feel that many of the criticsms are nit-picks and take a lot of time in the video for a 8/10 game. One such comment, though, does stand out to me that the big bosses should have hex-based stands - that would really help.
As for one-shot scenarios, there is nothing stopping anyone from (for eg) playing chapter 10 (or any other chapter), quick-leveling characters, running through the quick story-mode and off you go. Set up would be no different to other boss-battlers. The difference here to is that there are then 21 unique fights to be had.
I disagree they are nitpicks but it's a case of whether they affect you or not. Many will simply ignore criticisms to sound overly positive. Plus even a 10/10 game can have flaws and this game only just got an 8, I heavily debated 7.
very helpfull thnx
14:00 and why didn’t you write f and draw a hex on it yourself then?
Have you seen my art skills? 😜
Thanks for saving me $200 Canadian! LOL
Glad to help! Where others will hype up, I'll bring to reality!
Strongly disagree with the story impacting the combat. Saying because “you stubbed your toe” instead “accidental murder.” Downplays the kind of big story beats. You gain lose health, tokens, knowledge of the boss, and ambush. All matter quite a lot how much you get. Knowledge of the boss allows you to customise your deck for that battle - one boss has minions Vs no minions will can drastically change what cards work.
Ambush means the boss gets one whole extra attack round. That can make a big difference seeing how close the fighrs can be.
Books are technology; as are boardgames; technology actually means art, craft and the cunning of hand; computers and apps actually take technology away from our hands. That board, card and dice is tech. Scrap the app.
This game is so niche… I wonder why you take the time to review those as I don’t think they will generate you tons of views… even though it’s the current hotness.
That and the publisher did offer to send me a review copy and I wanted to play this game but didn't originally back it. Think of the review as a bonus as I was glad to play the game anyway.
Niche? I disagree. It's a Dungeon Crawler, and that is a mainstream genre. HeroQuest was out over 30 years ago, so plenty of time has passed in the hobby to allow these types of games to evolve. With Gloomhaven and JOTL (available at Target) at #1, that alone erodes any idea that this is niche.
@@clvrswine hero quest didn't weigh 20 kilos, cost a ton of cash, have 3 rulebooks and demand 3 hours of game time per scenario minimum. As good as Oathsworn is, its a niche title much like Gloomhaven is.
well said @@TheBrokenMeeple, I stand by what I said. It might not be niche for the average BGG user, but for the board gaming hobby at scale?
@@kevindelord that's my idea exactly. We as gamers can be too easily skewed because of our own bias
You and the comment section saved me from spending almost 560 euros on this because of FOMO. Cheers🍻
Glad we were of help!! Though it is reasons like this why my video isn't on the main page 🤔😉
Minies doesn’t come with the box? 😮