I became a Zelda fan after playing BotW and I've since played the older games (and mostly loved them). I love the freedom of TotK storytelling since you can choose to experience as much or as little of it as you want. While my opinion differs you bring up valid points that I can totally see is disappointing as a fan of the old formula and even I didn't like the "temples". All in all a great video!
Going to give my current opinion and then come back to edit my comment to *add* whatever new opinions I might have after hearing someone else's thoughts on it. Current opinion: I bought and played the game ASAP, was super excited and giddy, but my enthusiasm faded surprisingly quickly. I found myself surprisingly annoyed with not only some NPCs acting as though they never met Link despite finishing the previous game (yet they brought over all my horses from the last game!?) but the NPCs that are meant to limit your progress until you do specific things. I got so annoyed that I kept attacking the NPCs with spears, swords and arrows just to blow off some steam. I also kept getting annoyed because I kept getting confused over the controls for some reason. I got fed up with my feelings with the game and put it down, only revisiting it occasionally and putting it back down not long into my sessions. I haven't finished the game and I don't have the motivation to do so. (Will add thoughts after I finish the video, so I can see how my views might've been changed) After video thoughts: It's not a bad game, but I don't love it as a *Zelda* game or a continuation of a previous story based game. What I've seen from the story is interesting, yes, but...it's still not enough to keep me playing. And it trying to keep you from specific things while also trying to be free world is irritating. That guy that keeps me from getting near the rings no matter how I try to get to them is one of the NPCs I attacked to blow off steam. And, yes, I definitely hate the repetitiveness. Like that guy always holding the signs. "Oh, wow, I never would've thought of that!" Yeah, I know. You never think of a plan. Now hush. I don't need to hear your dialogue again. Or the guy that repeatedly gets locked in the enemy camps. "Am I just meant to be locked in a never ending loop of saving you every time I see a camp? Why can't you go back to staying at a stable?" It would be a great game...if it wasn't a Zelda game, a continuation of a previous story based game that had interacting with NPCs a main point in that previous game and wasn't as repetitive. I still don't have the motivation to finish the game yet, though.
I don't think it's bad, but it was a hell of a disappointment. With the lack of curation that BotW had, I was hoping for some sort of narrative With how poor the dungeons and puzzles were, I found I just wanted to get them over with. Dungeons and puzzles were what I enjoyed most in Zelda, and they were so lackluster in TotK Don't know what to expect for the future of Zelda, but I'm not into this new 'do anything/go anywhere' direction. It was a pretty empty experience for me
I personally think they need to go back to lore oriented games like tp and ww. I want just story, just the good story. And maybe they could make it like skyrim. Still open world, explore worthy, and rewarding... but damn. No exploring is rewarding in totk. At least not for me when i played through
For me, I really liked Breath of the Wild, I enjoyed the freedom of exploration and thought the story fit the kind of game that it was. I did think it was a little repetitive, a little sandboxy, etc. but I thought these elements were reined in just enough. In order to get somewhere, you still had to figure out HOW to get there, and that could take some effort, there would often be obstacles in your way, or you wouldn't have enough stamina to climb a mountain. I deeply hoped that in the next installment, Nintendo would reduce further the number of "hacks" to cheat the obstacles and avoid game content, essentially, and that contributed to a sandbox feeling. Much to my dismay, Tears of the Kingdom quadrupled down on the "sandbox" feel. Now, you have towers shoot you high up into the air, so you can essentially float anywher eon the map instantly. Game elements feel even MORE repetitive, especially the sky and depth content, but now even the overworld has the same Hudson sign challenge and tedious Korok carrying quest dotting everywhere. And yes, the machine building is done extraordinarily well for a sandbox experience- but I just wasn't really something I cared that much about doing in a Zelda game, outside of any puzzle solving component. For me, considering it was the same map, combat system, cooking, etc., Tears of the Kingdom was just The Legend of Overkill. But I wouldn't go so far as to say Breath of the Wild wasn't great. I think it shook up a formula that needed something fresh, I think many of us had gotten tired of locked areas of the game we had to wait until we received an item to go to, and wanted a little more exploratory freedom. I feel BOTW did a decent job that could have been improved upon, just in the exact opposite direction Tears chose to take. Mixing in more "normal" Zelda content like the story and the "dungeons" felt confusing because it didn't have a base game ground to stand on. Sorry for the long rant I just spent a LONG time on this game and it was among the most tedious things of my life.
I agree, it's better to be there in the ancient past with Zelda and have her as a companion (which could've introduced co-op making player 2 as Zelda) for puzzles. While helping Sonia live, keep Rauru from sacrificing himself AND get more interesting dungeons. Hell the abilities Link receives could've had one in each dungeon that way he's limited until near the end.
I became a zelda fan at the worst time. Started with twilight princess in 2008. Loved it so much. Got skyward sword for Christmas in like 2011. Loved it. I had just started linear zelda while everyone was tired of it. Didn’t play botw until 2021. Had a lot of fun but thought the story was bland. Thought totk would be an opportunity to be an amazing story in an open world but they doubled down on the blandness. I am now gonna spend the rest of my life chasing that feeling the sacred grove from twilight princess gave me. I’ll probably never get it again.
I agree, I think 2018s GOD OF WAR and GOD OF WSR RAGNAROK did an excellent job of creating a great linear story driven experience with elements of an open world sandbox game.
There is a reason why this is called a open world. And we have many of those. But the old games and games that immitated that gameplay got a genre name. "Zelda Likes"
The biggest issue I have with BoTW and ToTK is that they feel less like Zelda games and more like open-world survival games with a Zelda skin which really take the wind out of my sails in terms of gameplay, but that's just me. I also understand that Aonuma said that was a fan of Skyrim and that he more than likely took inspiration from it, but he failed to understand why people like Skyrim and the other ES games in that while they had open worlds to explore, there was still a structure in terms of storytelling and progression in that, in Skyrim's case, you couldn't go fight Alduin right away because you didn't have the necessary skills nor did you have an alliance with the Blades at that point to help you get to him so you had to go to other settlements to get what you needed and learned about the lore of those areas and their people along the way as well as befriending the other different factions like the college of winterhold, the companions where it actually felt like you were contributing to their stories and not just 'there' .
while i dont really agree with most of the points made in the video it was still interesting to see someone else's pov/thoughts about the game! great video nonetheless :D
so, my description of TTRPGs is fairly accurate when applied to video games, Players do not actually want a fully open world, they want the illusion of an open world, they like to have the illusion of autonomy but ultimately end at the planned story. I have run fully open worlds in TTRPGs and I have played games that were fully open world, they are lackluster and dull compared to games that have a set story path that your decisions will ultimately lead to, I would argue that Zelda has always been open world, but the fully open world is fairly modern, and sort of heralded the end of advancements in videogame storytelling development.
I have also said many times that BotW and TotK should have been a new property or a Linkle game within the world of Zelda (We want more Linkle content darn it) the games are good games, but terrible Zelda
Amen brotha! I feel like TP was the peak of Zelda (3D at least). SW has its flaws but at its core it’s still a Zelda game. BOTW & TOTK felt more like another game using Zelda skins. At the end of the day, every Zelda game before BOTW made me feel like I was on an epic adventure. The last two Zelda games fail to give me that feeling.
I personally didn’t finish TOK, stopping around the midway point. Due to the story, dungeons and puzzles just honestly not impressing me. It’s really a shame how poor the direction was including the marketing. The trailers we got were short and sparce. Very unstructured marketing, launch and just all over game direction. I really do think they went multiple directions at once with the development. Because it does not have an consistent identity.. I guess building but that’s not even crucial, explained or intertwined to the story. This game is all over the place
I didn’t think it was a good game, i honestly think it will be forgotten very soon. What was the selling point of this game. BOTW but now building random aircraft’s. I don’t see it being a hallmark. I wasn’t a big fan of BOTW but atleast it was very original. And identified with a grand map. TOK is an okay game and that sucks even more. Can’t stand being bored…
It doesn’t feel less meaningful than BotW… TotK is actively AGAINST BotW specifically story-wise gas-lighting the players into thinking that none of it happened nor mattered….. which is worse than BotW trying something different……
No one like games walkin on nostalgia. It touches on things that people feel dearly from from previous games. Nothing will live up to someone's expectations built from nostalgia.
It's not just about nostalgia, it's about genre preference. It's like if you were a Call of Duty fan and they made the ongoing installments third person looter shooters. It's not the same kind of game. It's the same complaint with Assassin's Creed.
The game was absolute trash. The depths were so disappointing that I turned off my console and listed the game for sale locally for $45 and it was gone within an hour.
Pokémon was good up to gen 3. Colosseum and XD are better than any Pokémon games currently out. Disagree and I’ll snag your Pokémon and sell them to a Palworld player.
@@dutchritz I get what you mean when you say that BOTW is the most uninspired plot you've seen and it is your opinion, but I can't help but think it's harsh
Your entire video boils down to "it's different from Old Zelda, therefore it's bad" without articulating WHY it's bad objectively. The reason why the stories in both BotW & TotK are told the way they told is so that they wouldn't get in the way of the player's ability to do whatever they want at anytime (BotW & TotK are designed so that literally everything in those games are optional). They didn't change the format in TotK because it was never a flaw to begin with. And besides, there's more actual narrative and lore content in both BotW and TotK than there are in most past Zelda games, and the BotW/TotK version of Zelda is objectively the single most developed character in the entire franchise. The idea that a story has to be told linearly in order to be any good is ridiculous considering that alot of the best literature and movies ever made like Pulp Fiction and Memento are told in a non-linear fashion.
I'm pretty sure I articulated why I didn't like the structure and pacing of the narrative in this game compared to games of the past. I stated that not structuring your narrative in a way that's cohesive leads to a lack of investment which I believe is bad. And towards the end of the game I answered the title's question by saying that the game was not objectively bad as a game. I just think that past Zelda games have done better at progression and keeping the audience engaged with characters and stories by having a linear progression. In the introduction of the video I also stated that this is my opinion and that's all I'm voicing here. A preference in structure and genre of game style.
Also movies are a pretty bad comparison, because even movies like Pulp Fiction and Momento have linear structure. You're supposed to watch the movie from beginning to end to understand the unfolding events. Movies are linear by their very nature, so you can't really compare it to a game where you can drop into any part of it that you want.
@@dutchritz The events of those movies are told and shown out of order, just like the memories of BotW and TotK. This is not a false comparison. The point of both is that once you get the full picture at the end the whole thing makes sense.
@@lukejones7164 yeah but the way pieces are put together is still a catered experience. Not just watching random scenes from the movie outside of the structure of the movie.
Well it’s flawed because it’s not structured. Things like books and stories need structures. Just because the developers intended for memories to be founded out of order does not mean it’s a good design for a video game. Older Zelda games had more consistent story telling and pacing it’s really that simple.
![[TH] 2024 PMGC League | Survival Stage วันที่ 1 | PUBG MOBILE Global Championship](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/FVFT-PFwU80/mqdefault.jpg)
This game was a huge disappointment for me, imagine waiting 6 years to play roughly the same game again.
Yep...
I liked this one a lot fair criticism and still highlighted some of the good aspects
Thank you my friend
I became a Zelda fan after playing BotW and I've since played the older games (and mostly loved them). I love the freedom of TotK storytelling since you can choose to experience as much or as little of it as you want. While my opinion differs you bring up valid points that I can totally see is disappointing as a fan of the old formula and even I didn't like the "temples". All in all a great video!
Much respect, my dude
Going to give my current opinion and then come back to edit my comment to *add* whatever new opinions I might have after hearing someone else's thoughts on it.
Current opinion: I bought and played the game ASAP, was super excited and giddy, but my enthusiasm faded surprisingly quickly. I found myself surprisingly annoyed with not only some NPCs acting as though they never met Link despite finishing the previous game (yet they brought over all my horses from the last game!?) but the NPCs that are meant to limit your progress until you do specific things. I got so annoyed that I kept attacking the NPCs with spears, swords and arrows just to blow off some steam. I also kept getting annoyed because I kept getting confused over the controls for some reason.
I got fed up with my feelings with the game and put it down, only revisiting it occasionally and putting it back down not long into my sessions. I haven't finished the game and I don't have the motivation to do so.
(Will add thoughts after I finish the video, so I can see how my views might've been changed)
After video thoughts:
It's not a bad game, but I don't love it as a *Zelda* game or a continuation of a previous story based game. What I've seen from the story is interesting, yes, but...it's still not enough to keep me playing. And it trying to keep you from specific things while also trying to be free world is irritating. That guy that keeps me from getting near the rings no matter how I try to get to them is one of the NPCs I attacked to blow off steam. And, yes, I definitely hate the repetitiveness. Like that guy always holding the signs. "Oh, wow, I never would've thought of that!" Yeah, I know. You never think of a plan. Now hush. I don't need to hear your dialogue again. Or the guy that repeatedly gets locked in the enemy camps. "Am I just meant to be locked in a never ending loop of saving you every time I see a camp? Why can't you go back to staying at a stable?"
It would be a great game...if it wasn't a Zelda game, a continuation of a previous story based game that had interacting with NPCs a main point in that previous game and wasn't as repetitive.
I still don't have the motivation to finish the game yet, though.
You don't have to finish it. Just look up the story cutscenes online, and save yourself 40 more hours of grind.
Hey someone who feels the same way I do about this!
I don't think it's bad, but it was a hell of a disappointment. With the lack of curation that BotW had, I was hoping for some sort of narrative
With how poor the dungeons and puzzles were, I found I just wanted to get them over with. Dungeons and puzzles were what I enjoyed most in Zelda, and they were so lackluster in TotK
Don't know what to expect for the future of Zelda, but I'm not into this new 'do anything/go anywhere' direction. It was a pretty empty experience for me
Me too, it was enjoyable at times, but got very repetitive and old
i agree a lot with the "completed tech demo" aspect. im pretty tired of collect-a-thon games and this feels to me like another Nintendo one
I personally think they need to go back to lore oriented games like tp and ww. I want just story, just the good story. And maybe they could make it like skyrim. Still open world, explore worthy, and rewarding... but damn. No exploring is rewarding in totk. At least not for me when i played through
Amen brotha! Just a lot of repetitive uninspired content... Most of which was developed 6 years ago.
For me, I really liked Breath of the Wild, I enjoyed the freedom of exploration and thought the story fit the kind of game that it was. I did think it was a little repetitive, a little sandboxy, etc. but I thought these elements were reined in just enough. In order to get somewhere, you still had to figure out HOW to get there, and that could take some effort, there would often be obstacles in your way, or you wouldn't have enough stamina to climb a mountain. I deeply hoped that in the next installment, Nintendo would reduce further the number of "hacks" to cheat the obstacles and avoid game content, essentially, and that contributed to a sandbox feeling. Much to my dismay, Tears of the Kingdom quadrupled down on the "sandbox" feel. Now, you have towers shoot you high up into the air, so you can essentially float anywher eon the map instantly. Game elements feel even MORE repetitive, especially the sky and depth content, but now even the overworld has the same Hudson sign challenge and tedious Korok carrying quest dotting everywhere. And yes, the machine building is done extraordinarily well for a sandbox experience- but I just wasn't really something I cared that much about doing in a Zelda game, outside of any puzzle solving component. For me, considering it was the same map, combat system, cooking, etc., Tears of the Kingdom was just The Legend of Overkill. But I wouldn't go so far as to say Breath of the Wild wasn't great. I think it shook up a formula that needed something fresh, I think many of us had gotten tired of locked areas of the game we had to wait until we received an item to go to, and wanted a little more exploratory freedom. I feel BOTW did a decent job that could have been improved upon, just in the exact opposite direction Tears chose to take. Mixing in more "normal" Zelda content like the story and the "dungeons" felt confusing because it didn't have a base game ground to stand on. Sorry for the long rant I just spent a LONG time on this game and it was among the most tedious things of my life.
Progression and gatekeeping can happen in a more open world. You should watch my other video that talks about this.
I agree, it's better to be there in the ancient past with Zelda and have her as a companion (which could've introduced co-op making player 2 as Zelda) for puzzles. While helping Sonia live, keep Rauru from sacrificing himself AND get more interesting dungeons. Hell the abilities Link receives could've had one in each dungeon that way he's limited until near the end.
Hey someone who feels the same way as I do!
Brotha!
I became a zelda fan at the worst time. Started with twilight princess in 2008. Loved it so much. Got skyward sword for Christmas in like 2011. Loved it. I had just started linear zelda while everyone was tired of it. Didn’t play botw until 2021. Had a lot of fun but thought the story was bland. Thought totk would be an opportunity to be an amazing story in an open world but they doubled down on the blandness. I am now gonna spend the rest of my life chasing that feeling the sacred grove from twilight princess gave me. I’ll probably never get it again.
I had been playing Zelda games since the late '90s and I still felt that way. Twilight Princess is my favorite!
I recomend Okami!
And Blue Fire if you want a shorter indie game.
I agree, I think 2018s GOD OF WAR and GOD OF WSR RAGNAROK did an excellent job of creating a great linear story driven experience with elements of an open world sandbox game.
There is a reason why this is called a open world. And we have many of those. But the old games and games that immitated that gameplay got a genre name. "Zelda Likes"
Fair critique.
Imo, I really enjoyed ToTK.
I had fun too, just irritated with 'said things in video'
The biggest issue I have with BoTW and ToTK is that they feel less like Zelda games and more like open-world survival games with a Zelda skin which really take the wind out of my sails in terms of gameplay, but that's just me.
I also understand that Aonuma said that was a fan of Skyrim and that he more than likely took inspiration from it, but he failed to understand why people like Skyrim and the other ES games in that while they had open worlds to explore, there was still a structure in terms of storytelling and progression in that, in Skyrim's case, you couldn't go fight Alduin right away because you didn't have the necessary skills nor did you have an alliance with the Blades at that point to help you get to him so you had to go to other settlements to get what you needed and learned about the lore of those areas and their people along the way as well as befriending the other different factions like the college of winterhold, the companions where it actually felt like you were contributing to their stories and not just 'there' .
while i dont really agree with most of the points made in the video it was still interesting to see someone else's pov/thoughts about the game! great video nonetheless :D
Thank you for respectfully disagreeing 😁
so, my description of TTRPGs is fairly accurate when applied to video games, Players do not actually want a fully open world, they want the illusion of an open world, they like to have the illusion of autonomy but ultimately end at the planned story. I have run fully open worlds in TTRPGs and I have played games that were fully open world, they are lackluster and dull compared to games that have a set story path that your decisions will ultimately lead to, I would argue that Zelda has always been open world, but the fully open world is fairly modern, and sort of heralded the end of advancements in videogame storytelling development.
I have also said many times that BotW and TotK should have been a new property or a Linkle game within the world of Zelda (We want more Linkle content darn it) the games are good games, but terrible Zelda
Yes it's a bad game! I regret playing it. 95% is grinding
Amen brotha!
I feel like TP was the peak of Zelda (3D at least). SW has its flaws but at its core it’s still a Zelda game. BOTW & TOTK felt more like another game using Zelda skins.
At the end of the day, every Zelda game before BOTW made me feel like I was on an epic adventure. The last two Zelda games fail to give me that feeling.
Yep... It feels like a whole genre in a certain style was ripped from us.
I personally didn’t finish TOK, stopping around the midway point. Due to the story, dungeons and puzzles just honestly not impressing me.
It’s really a shame how poor the direction was including the marketing. The trailers we got were short and sparce. Very unstructured marketing, launch and just all over game direction.
I really do think they went multiple directions at once with the development. Because it does not have an consistent identity.. I guess building but that’s not even crucial, explained or intertwined to the story. This game is all over the place
Nobody talks about the game anymore. It came and went
The next zelda should be like dark souls with a connected metroidvania like world
I'd play something like that
Preach most of these Totk Fanboys will bitch and whine about your points I fully agree with you with what you pointed out.
Thank you, it was a really frustrating game for me and that's nice that some people listen.
I can save you time on this. The answer is No.
Thanks buddy
I didn’t think it was a good game, i honestly think it will be forgotten very soon. What was the selling point of this game. BOTW but now building random aircraft’s. I don’t see it being a hallmark.
I wasn’t a big fan of BOTW but atleast it was very original. And identified with a grand map. TOK is an okay game and that sucks even more. Can’t stand being bored…
It doesn’t feel less meaningful than BotW… TotK is actively AGAINST BotW specifically story-wise gas-lighting the players into thinking that none of it happened nor mattered….. which is worse than BotW trying something different……
Yeah, they definitely should have changed the setting...
No one like games walkin on nostalgia. It touches on things that people feel dearly from from previous games. Nothing will live up to someone's expectations built from nostalgia.
It's not just about nostalgia, it's about genre preference. It's like if you were a Call of Duty fan and they made the ongoing installments third person looter shooters. It's not the same kind of game. It's the same complaint with Assassin's Creed.
The game was absolute trash. The depths were so disappointing that I turned off my console and listed the game for sale locally for $45 and it was gone within an hour.
🤣🤣🤣
Totk was a good game. But not a masterpiece. No where near goty nominee. And definitely not worth a 6 year old wait
Pokémon was good up to gen 3. Colosseum and XD are better than any Pokémon games currently out. Disagree and I’ll snag your Pokémon and sell them to a Palworld player.
This is interesting that you made this comment considering that I'm coming out with a palworld video tomorrow.
@@dutchritz my first bidder hahahahaha
No. It isn't.
Nice, you must have gotten to the end of the video.
Its fucking terrible. I played it for a couple weeks then sold it. Boring and repetitive
That's a rough experience...
I hate all Zelda games
😂😂😂 the based comment
@@dutchritzI finally said it I don’t like Bad Anime games
@@Experiment1233-d7h speak your truth 😂😂
@@dutchritz Aww shucks
Answer: No.
Kinda
I still like your content❤. Though we could have a nice debate
@@nehmprogaming2307 what are your disagreements?
@@dutchritz I get what you mean when you say that BOTW is the most uninspired plot you've seen and it is your opinion, but I can't help but think it's harsh
@@nehmprogaming2307 It is harsh, because I'm comparing it to extremely competent and dynamic linear stories of past Zelda games.
Your entire video boils down to "it's different from Old Zelda, therefore it's bad" without articulating WHY it's bad objectively.
The reason why the stories in both BotW & TotK are told the way they told is so that they wouldn't get in the way of the player's ability to do whatever they want at anytime (BotW & TotK are designed so that literally everything in those games are optional). They didn't change the format in TotK because it was never a flaw to begin with.
And besides, there's more actual narrative and lore content in both BotW and TotK than there are in most past Zelda games, and the BotW/TotK version of Zelda is objectively the single most developed character in the entire franchise.
The idea that a story has to be told linearly in order to be any good is ridiculous considering that alot of the best literature and movies ever made like Pulp Fiction and Memento are told in a non-linear fashion.
I'm pretty sure I articulated why I didn't like the structure and pacing of the narrative in this game compared to games of the past.
I stated that not structuring your narrative in a way that's cohesive leads to a lack of investment which I believe is bad. And towards the end of the game I answered the title's question by saying that the game was not objectively bad as a game. I just think that past Zelda games have done better at progression and keeping the audience engaged with characters and stories by having a linear progression.
In the introduction of the video I also stated that this is my opinion and that's all I'm voicing here. A preference in structure and genre of game style.
Also movies are a pretty bad comparison, because even movies like Pulp Fiction and Momento have linear structure. You're supposed to watch the movie from beginning to end to understand the unfolding events. Movies are linear by their very nature, so you can't really compare it to a game where you can drop into any part of it that you want.
@@dutchritz The events of those movies are told and shown out of order, just like the memories of BotW and TotK. This is not a false comparison. The point of both is that once you get the full picture at the end the whole thing makes sense.
@@lukejones7164 yeah but the way pieces are put together is still a catered experience. Not just watching random scenes from the movie outside of the structure of the movie.
Well it’s flawed because it’s not structured. Things like books and stories need structures. Just because the developers intended for memories to be founded out of order does not mean it’s a good design for a video game. Older Zelda games had more consistent story telling and pacing it’s really that simple.