ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 2 ส.ค. 2024
- Thank you to "Nagi" for lending me his DAVE for a month. I put the Chord DAVE and Mscaler through their paces with a variety of high-end headphones and my speaker system.
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00:00 Start
00:13 Introduction
01:33 Design
02:53 Technical overview
07:23 Sound impressions start
13:30 Headphone drive and others impressions
15:23 Final thoughts
17:38 Thank you - วิทยาศาสตร์และเทคโนโลยี
Will we be getting a Part-2 of the Chord Dave & M Scaler review?
I heard the TT2/Mscaler combo and was amazed. I walked out of that HiFi shop with a Hugo2 same day. The Hugo2 doesn't quite resolve to the edges of the room like the TT2 but the clarity is still outstanding. I'd imagine the DAVE is even better on live recordings.
I was intrigued by the M Scaler and listened at a local dealer. Heard in conjunction with a TT2, it was a joy...the improvement in space, timing and staging was immediately apparent and obvious when AB'd. I own a Qutest and was confident that an MScaler would offer a similar improvement...so confident that I sourced a used example. I've had such a few months now and I am absolutely delighted. The plan is to move up to a TT at some point...and keep an eye on developments at Chord. Looking forward to part 2 muchly. 👍
I also am thrilled with my Qutest - Mscaler combo. Not interested in TT2. My headphone amp is a Burson Soloist 3X with Burson Supercharger power supply.
@@robertnoblitt518 Looking back to burson and chord dac combo. Had one years ago.
Where’s part 2? :(
Awesome review! It will be truly great if you can review May DAC and compare it to Dave. At the moment, Dave looks ultimate but my budget only stretches up to May DAC and its partnering preamp. That preamp has headphone outputs which is getting pretty good review.
It's hear!!!! Thanks.
Another great pairing is the Dave with a pair of KEF LS50 speakers (the powered version). I am only familiar with the original LS50, not the Meta, but it sounds fantastic. Great imaging and staging and no glare and very satisfying realistic vocals (and instruments).
As always another good review Currawong. I’m presently using the HMS/TT2 combo with Nick Bacon’s WAVE STORM BNC’S, and I’m looking forward to your next review that includes a little comparison between the DAVE with HMS and the TT2. Jolly good show sir.
Great review!
i so agree with your review, had dave for the past 2 years using as a dac in 2 channel and headphone dac\amp, I went over multiple amps , Feliks euforia and some other good SS , could not get over the fact that in all cases resolution and clarity was lost, you get addicted to it. I have since modified dave and using 3 LPS power supplies, it sounds even better now with switched power supply removed and moved to 3 external LPSes..... Ive demoed the Mscaler for 3 days and returned it ,
Which power supplies have you used, if you don't mind me asking? I'm thinking of eventually going down this route if I get a DAVE.
Why did you return the M scaler??
@@Currawong most cost effective way to use dual keces p3 So I’m using 3 rails from keces p3 to Dave and 4th rail is for optical rendu , cabling instructions can be found online … another solution is to use uptone audio js2 but that is about 1000$ more expensive compared to keces p3
I'd love to see a comparison between the MScaler and the Auralic Sirius 2.1.
Can't wait to hear what you have to say about the Luxman 750... i have a buddy that's going to be selling his and it just keeps winking at me. It's a pretty rare unit in the states due to import costs and just looks great. Flux Volot, Pass HP amp, and a few tube amps keep coming up on my shopping list but I really do want the Luxman.
I have P750u. It plays more details and wider soundstage than my Dave headphone out. The Dave headphone out is very detailed. Very few headphone amps achieve this feat as well as the P750u in my experience. Other amps that I have owned includes Ragnarok, Wells Audio Milo, Violectric 281, LTA MZ3 & Pass Labs HPA1.
Thanks for making this video. Interesting that you also have the Luxman P750u amp with you now. I have it and found that it produces more details than the Dave headphone out. Wondering if you have tried it given that you mention that the other amps you have tried gave less details?
I like the visual change when you are mentioning the Pixelation
I find that the TT2 alone has that “ pixelated “ you mentioned also, maybe it sounds a bit digital. But then the tt2 as a Dac to others high end amps it fixes all that. With the McIntosh mha100 it sounds just ridiculous, incredible resolution, depth, holographic sound, no need to have the M Scaler imo.
V Nice review. How would you compare to T+A HA 200 ? Thanks
A pretty accurate assessment over all, currently I have the DAVE TT2 may KTE and obviously the M scaler here for review. What annoys me about the Dave I think more than anything else is the level of resolution and transparency you lose when taking this DAC out of its own unit and environment,
Through the Mono block AHB2 Serene Ferrum OOR, it’s the same story, but I must admit it’s far less than the other chord products.
But the may edges it out in regards to the way the stage shrinks and expands texture information but yet the Dave takes it on stage size and when using the unit by itself through its own anaemic amplifier may be a little resolution too
I think I still might want to buy one though LOL I hope Dave two is going to be here soon, because this is seven years old now and the fact that it’s keeping up still with some of these of a great DAC, is nothing short of astonishing in the digital realm
4 tigers?! I see what you mean about transparency. When I would connect the TT2 thorough the AHB2 I lost resolution. I heard this is the case with the Dave. I am thinking of using more sensitive TOTL headphones with the Dave to keep transparency at absolute max. Might keep the LCD5 and Solitaire P in my main stable with the Dave.
Just ordered a used Dave so I will be comparing Susvara, Solitaire P and LCD5 in all combinations to see what I would like. I am probabaly not going to get Mscaler right away ... is Solo Dave with LCD5 still good?
Amazing I am the first to comment. I think this is the most tangible review of the Dave/MScaler I have come across, good job Amos! I have spent enough time listening to live music, recording audio and in recording/mixing studios to take a dim view of the inky blackness out of which music emerges from most DACs. Still I am a believer in digital technology and have been a believer for long enough that I am never going back. I do think many of the most amazing (older) recordings live on vinyl, they just need to be re-mastered to digital and we can use the likes of the Dave to reconstruct the experience. Maybe in ten years I will be able to afford one, hopefully my hearing is not lopped off at 6k! From one Sout Piel to another, groot geluk!
Prefer standard red book and HDCD from a linn genki cd player, has all the detail and resolution i need. You still hear all the detail right into the bottom of a recording, good or bad, without overdoing anything like edge and sibilance, with a flat frequency bottom to top. It's the down stream equipment that has to be top notch, as not to loose the detail the cd player is capable of, whether high enough resolving passive or active hifi systems, or headphone and amp systems. The genki is capable of sounding natural and live. The equipment you pair it with, are the limitations.
I have had the same visceral reaction to the HoloAudio DAC, where the organic nature and the delivery takes your breath away.
But I will be bringing the Dave and the M scaler in for review I think to at some point when the logistics can be sorted out, it definitely needs to be put up against the ladder DACs from holoaudio. The spring three spring 2 and May will be the competition I believe, can’t wait to put them through their paces.
I was a big fan of the cutest and love that Hugo to,
Also Mola Mola Tambaqui.
@@magicmulder now I have done the Dave, the cord M scaler, the TT2, LOL most definitely be looking elsewhere two bring in for reviews
Currawong has totally upgraded his kit
I’ve got the Chord Mojo and Poly. It’s amazing 🤩 Their products are fantastic but very expensive. I’d love the Dave but can’t justify the expenditure. Maybe someone out their will send me one.
Put 2GHZ solid core (not clip on) ferrites on the bnc cable coming from the mscaler. Or try using battery power for the mscaler.
Excellent review! I own the Chord TT2 and M Scaler. Your listening analysis is probably the best I've heard, and I think I've watched or read every review out there! As audiophiles, we know the danger and the truth behind "once you hear it, you can never go back"! I hope to never hear the DAVE! I can't afford to hear it! However, I would be interested to hear your thoughts on the DAVE/M Scaler combo vs. the TT2/M Scaler combo! I'd like for you to say "sounds the same". Unfortunately, I'm afraid you won't. Looking forward to Part 2 !! Thanks for the great review !
Thanks! I'll talk about the differences in my TT2 video.
@@Currawong great, thanks!!
My personal experience was that - when using the Focal Utopia headphones - the M-Scaler/TT2 combo sounded very similar indeed to the M-Scaler/DAVE combo. Take away M-Scaler, and they were very different, with DAVE clearly superior. But with M-Scaler in the mix and it was hard to tell them apart; perhaps slightly more authoritative bass with DAVE? This was for very-well-recorded classical music from the golden era of stereo in the 1960's through to the 1980's, where the sheer three-dimensionality of the sound added a wonderfully realistic aura to the sound. I'd be curious to hear @Currawong's take on the two.
(and in fact, I greatly preferred M-Scaler/TT2 to the "bare" DAVE, which sounded thin and two-dimensional in comparison).
Wonderfully articulated. Can you comp the Dave to Hugo TT2 + M Scaler? One other thought…. If not mistaken, DAVE has been around for a while. Any chance a DAVE update is on the way?
Rob Watts has stated repeatedly that there is most definitely NOT a new DAVE in the works. He's working on a better MScaler.
@@Currawong So is Rob working to M-Scaler 2?
Don’t both with the May - I compared against the DAVE and the imaging is just not the same. The May sounds very diffuse.
if you really want to scale the Dave and MScaler then hook it up to the Smyth Research A16.... it will blow your mind....
Absolutely terrific video. So Amos. How about a pre amp for the DAVE’s amp section?
I understand that the amp section inside the DAVE is a bit anemic.
Putting a pre-amp between the DAVE and another amp will result in detail loss. There shouldn't be an issue with pre-amp drive with the DAVE and a regular power amp.
@@Currawong that does make sense actually. I was just curious because headphones like the HE 6 , Hd 800 or susvara I heard are underpowered with the DAVE’s headphone out.
I’m curious to hear your experience with the Susvara with the DAVE’s amp section.
I tried the DAVE with the HD 800 and I found them to sound underpowered at an audio show.
Because the Chord gear doesn't add any kind of coloration to the sound, it can sound a bit odd at first using them with headphones. It's not a lack of power though, unless we are talking about Susvaras. Definitely a synergy thing. I usually prefer to listen through my Studio Six, even with a bit of loss of detail, though with the DAVE I liked the result with warmer headphones, such as the Meze Elite.
@@Currawong yeah I kind of thought the susvara’s would be a real struggle cause many say they’re even harder to drive than the HD 800’s.
I guess by adding more amplification behind the DAVE like a pre amp (IN) would colour the sound to some degree while degrading the signal slightly. I thought because of chord’s sturdy galvanically isolated ports/sockets it wouldn’t be an issue. Oh the science of audio! It is an enigma for me sometimes.
Anyhow you gotta level with me. With the DAVE headphone out with the D-8000’ pros that must be the best way you’ve heard them, right?
I imagine it is absolute bliss. D 8000’s are as easy as the utopia to drive, so that has to be a winner or is the studio 6 tube coloration better? I know. Too many questions. :)
The easier-to-drive planars, such as the Final and Meze, were definitely great direct out of the DAVE.
Are you reviewing the Dan Clark Audio Stealth? I would love to hear your opinions.
I hope so!
Yeah. I heard a tt2 and mscalar in a shop and had a full on panic attack. Interesting.
Awesome, May KTE or Dave + M scaler?
that comparison is a must. both Dave and May being probably best in class (or best in "type") it would showcase benefits and limitations of two different approaches to DA conversion
When is Part 2, my friend?
hear.audio/faq
@@Currawong links not working / would love to hear the review
Hey brother for some reason I can't find your part 2 of this but see the tt2 mscaler vid. By any chance could I trouble you to help me find the link. Love your Dave review and found a used one thanks to you and a few other friends
I didn't end up shooting the MScaler video, which was supposed to be part 2. Good that you could find a used one.
@@Currawong thanks again Amos have a great weekend
Perhaps the mscaler 2 will be a cool review
Looks like you were using a Herbie's Halo Jnr on your headphone cable. Any comments on the effect?
The main effect is that my adaptors don't roll off the table so easily now. I haven't noticed anything else otherwise. :)
I was wondering why Sony designed an FPGA S-Master HX for the TA-ZH1ES, but I think it's for the exact same reason Chord opted for an In-FPGA design
I have a Dave now but I still love my Tazzy for a smooth non-fatiguing sound.
Unrelated question: I've decided to buy Hifiman Sundaras, but I don't know what to do about the DAC/amp. I know I need an amp, but should I spend 100 each on an amp and DAC or spend 200 on just the amp and worry about the DAC later (for example)? I can't afford too much after getting the headphones. Any advice is appreciated.
www.hear.audio/faq
Darko did the comparison between the Dave and the latest version of the DCS Bartok with its built in headphone amp ( XLR balanced).
The best test is a good recording on a standard 💿…if you can make a good recording sound great then there’s the testament of how good and powerful the processing is.🥳
Outstanding review of the Dave. For my headphone combo with the Chord Dave/MScaler was. Dave > V281 > Empyrean = really gave the boring sound more speed and impact with sparkle next was Dave > Euforia OTL amp > Utopia = really gave the Utopia a big sound stage that made them more engaging and my end game setup is Dave > Woo Audio WA33 Elite with all upgraded KR Audio HP tubes 4 x 2A3’s 1 x 274B with my Susvara’s and 1266 Phi TC everything is true to life with the biggest sound stage you can imagine very solid state sound but more clean and organic in sound END GAME sound of old recordings like Black Sabbath War Pigs sound like you are in the studio drum impact and electric guitar is unbelievable. What you thought listening to the same sound via your Schiit Stack of gear will sound like AM radio static low resolution etc. When you put highend gear and good cables around the Dave it will give you heaven
Have you tried the May KTE?
@@johenkay1129 yes and owned the KTE 2 as well not even close. I personally think people are stuck on the price of the Dave and trying to rationalize the lower price. The Dave comes across EFFORTLESSLY with the MAY KTE sounds good but it also sounds digital. If you look hard enough one can buy a NEW Dave close to the used market the deals are out there $7500 Dave vs a $5500 May KTE I promise you the Dave is really good as long as you get over the price tag.
have you have any chance to compare it with bartok?
young ears tell me dave with mscaler is superior
Does it make any sense to use a high quality tube amp with dave if you like tube sound or does this just ruin it?
If you want extra distortion with loss of detail.
If you like the analogue sound, go for the Holy May. 5% less detail than the Dave but 50% more musical.
I actually run my Dave to a Darkvoice and with the right tubes like the Sylvania 6sn7w 1945 & bright headphones like my Grado GS3000x it holds most of the detail while making the sound more holographic.
You can skip Mscaler if you got good computer, like Ryzen 12 core CPU with RTX geforce GPU. You need ROON and you need HQplayer. With them you can do same what Mascaler does, even better. HQplayer can do magic with powerful PC.
Once you've spend all the money on the powerful PC, and all the accessories (or custom PC) to get the low noise, high-quality digital output, you've spent about as much as you would have on an MScaler.
@@Currawong True but now i got video editing PC, gaming PC etc too. At 2500€ :D
@@Currawong yes, but a powerful pc has more use than just being a music source. Hence, the "you can skip" bit
HQ player is phenomenal , and getting a decent source all you need is something as basic as a Pi between dac and pc and you are good haha
@@Thevikingcam The concern is even with customization to get low noise signal out (more $$$), a powerful PC with GPU runs hot and very noisy, ruin the purpose of an absolutely quiet listening environment. I also avoid any high-end audio components like AMPs with fans.
i would be happy just with a qutest. That combo is just a dream for me :(
I'm very happy with my Qutest - M Scaler combo. My headphone amp is a Burson Soloist 3X with Burson Supercharger power supply.
i looking forward to your comparison with a high end R2R DAC (especially Audio GD R7HE MK2 with DI20HE)
Shame you haven’t experienced wave storm bnc cables and also coax cable between these. I was gob smacked in the improvement and came from other high end cables. Hope you get some for yourself as worth it!
dave with wave storm is great i agree
100% agree - only way to get the best out of chord DACs is BNC. Bypass USB completely
Don't understand why they use dual SPDIF BNC (coax) for 768Khz (yes, I know the coax SPDIF 384khz hardware limit x 2) vs using USB for 768Khz audio input from the MScaler.
After all these years touting async USB as the FInal Solution for digital audio transport, with testimonials worldwide that asynch USB sounds better than TOSlink or coax SPDIF, Chord must know something about USB vs coax SPDIF everyone else doesn't.
DOes AES EBU overXLR support 768Khz? If so, could use that
And now we have I2S over HDMI, I2S over RJ45...
AES is basically S/PDIF passed through a transformer to make the connection balanced, so as to reject noise (NB: I'm ignoring pro audio specs here in saying that). I'm not sure AES will work to 768k, which, if I'm right, explains why there is dual BNC for the MScaler connection.
As for USB, I'm not sure who has been touting it as the "final solution", but it has improved a lot over the last few years.
Damn those cicadas are loud...
Roon Endpoint?
Yawn….. I’ll just put some vinyl on.. 😜
How does MQA sound through the combo?
You can hear more clearly how MQA have distorted the music, especially in how the atmospheric cues that I talk about have been removed to try and bring the focus, unnaturally, on the instruments.
@@Currawong This is really interesting indeed. There is plenty of dissing MQA purely on technical/measuring ground or DRM related issues but not many in depth listening experiences of what it does to the sound.
As valuable as measurements are in many cases, we know our ears are ultimately superior to spectrum analysers at deciding what sounds good (disclaimer: I tend to prefer tube amplification, R2R dacs and analogue playback).
It would be really good to have a video from an experienced listener like you where you would relate your listening impression of MQA.
I’ll just keep my Directstream because it sounds more analog to me.
I very much enoyed your review and metaphors, and the Dave is on my wish list. The thing is, there is a much cheaper solution to the Chord Dave- it's called a turntable. Just put the stylus on the record and there's your magic. No need for this $10,00 Rube Goldberg machine whose ultimate goal is to make something sound like analog.
Near Analog without the compression of dynamic range and intrinsic noise/distortions/dust of spinning plastic plate approach.
What about Lamoizator ?
This setup will make me fall back to poverty.
let's be honest Dave sucks as preamp. you will need proper pre anyway. maybe it's about earphones, or my ears are not as sensitive, but in my system Yggy A2 was comfortably on par with Dave/Mscaler. disclaimer, yggy had to be on for a really long time (a few days), my room though treated is not perfect, I use cheap power cables, and pro grade signal xlrs. I don't pay attention to nuance differences as much bigger influence will have your state of mind when listening, or what you were doing just before - driving a car, traveling by tube, walking noisy street, having tough day at work.
That's one of the problems with DAVE: If the rest of your system isn't as resolving, there's no benefit to owning it. Since I listen direct to headphones often (and ones that the DAVE drives easily) I could live with it and get a lot out of it. If the Yggy is good enough in your system, then you've saved yourself a lot of money.
@@Currawong hm... maybe my system isn't resolving enough, maybe there are bottle necks. like preamp Freya+ or PC based source. The thing is I tried many high end components tried out, not at the same time though and I didn't feel it pushed the boundaries much further if at all. For sure TT2 was less resolving. I have 2 major conclusions: room treatment is the king. it will give you 10x return than Dave. Second, it does matter for details retrieval how far you are sitting from your speakers. it's a different world if you have earphones on your head, close field monitors or full range speakers 3.5 m away from your ear. I prefer the last one because it gives you a chance to have realistic full range sound perception. my speakers are active ATCs SCM100 - amazingly resolving beasts and powerful in the same time... and maybe also 3rd conclusion: don't pay attention to small changes, they can by in your mind only - sense of hearing can play tricks with you - the same system, same music can give you totally different perception depending on the state of your mind.
@@Currawong ... but you encouraged me to try it once again maybe with some other pre. I did much better room treatment in the meantime. it is however possible that some people have simple better sense of hearing then others :)
Definitely. I have a friend who just tried the Hugo 2 and was blown away by it, but other people I know tried a DAVE/MS set-up and didn't find it special at all. I always recommend going with what sounds right to you, rather than to me (or anyone else).
My experience is the DAVE's pre-amp is good - very good. I just added the DAVE into my very resolving system, and in the past I've had pre-amps from Moon, PS Audio and what I thought was going to be my final resting place, the d'Agostino HD preamp controlling a set of his M400's......they only stayed in my rack for 6 months. My Chord DAVE is fed by an Aurender N20 and feeding a pair of Pass Labs class A mono blocks......in my system, with my room - I am very content. For now. In short.....I love my DAVE.
Ultimate ? check out what MSB are doing