Steve makes it look so easy - this is what you pay for when you hire a professional, their expertise. I can probably do this myself but it will probably take 10x longer and with a ton of headaches along the way. Still can't wait to tackle a project when I get my first house.
We’re doing Wedi in our walk-in. Looks super strong and fool proof! The contractor actually removed the Tile-Ready pan and hardie that they’d put in so far, at their own cost and started installing Wedi.
I've been using Schluter to their specs. It's not mentioned in your great summary that Kerdi board comes in several different thicknesses - this can be a boon when you need either full tile support (board to studs) or just a veneer (board over other wall material). Also, Schluter pipe seals and profiles are cool to use.
OMG so I have been wanting to redo my shower FOREVER now. You have no idea how grateful I am for this step -to-step video. I definitely will be getting the wedi Tub Surround Kit. I think it would be easier for me to install (especially if I can't get some assistance. ) Thank you!!!!!
I have been cheated by so many "professionals" to the point I said "I can do that". I am a 5'6" 130 lb woman who has conquered what a man feels he can only accomplish. So "Chiodera's Corner" go for it. Everything in this video is good common sense with some tips to make it easier. Think about going epoxy walls..check out Leggari or Stone Coat Epoxy they will give you the confidence..
All 3 are proper methods! As tile setter, I’ve used all 3. Wedi is the hardest to clean, as the sealant is petroleum based and its very expensive. But thanks for a video showing PROPER waterproofing methods.
I'm doing a shower for the first time, and think I'll go with cement board. The main reason is cost. Thanks for the excellent video. It was very informative to a lay person like me.
This is a complete encyclopedia of a "how to" to water proof the tub and surround. The next task at hand is the tile but you got me by making sure it was water PROOF. Brilliant and genius. I somehow thought the tile and grout did that job. Thanks sooooooo much
Thanks I liked the way you did you video with the voice over explaining what Steve was installing and how. Very well done and more helpful compared to several that I have seen.
I am an Stucco contractor and I have seen many issues with mold and rot, rule number one to avoid mold and rot is AIR, materials need to be able to breath. That been said, I rather use the Cement Board method but with a little twist. First thing I will do to my bathroom is instead of cover the entire wall with plastic like you did I would do the plastic installation from the tub up to just a little above the shower and not all the way up, that way yes I am protecting the studs from possible water but at the same time in case of a leak or moisture build up I did not cover the entire wall with plastic, in that way I'm allowing the air to breath through the wall if needed. Second, I would prebuild the niche out 2x4s cut the Cement board to the shape of the niche and then install the premade tile ready niche on top, then properly seal it with the waterproof membrane and mesh. The other reason I like Cement board and the pre made niche against the third method is because we have less changes of a leak since we are basically joining to pieces together compare to the third method you show where you cut a bunch of pieces and join them together with silicon. to me is a NO, NO, the more joints the more chances of a potential leak. Second method use thinset to seal all the joints with the mesh, while Thinset is some what waterproof, I don't feel comfortable sealing my joints with a mix of cement, sand and water. Once again we come to the Cement board where all joints are seal with a mesh and a water proof membrane which leaves no gaps or joints,it becomes a ONE seal, ONE complete coat, ONE waterproof membrane. and once again the less joints the less changes of leak. The other reason I will go with the Cement board is because is a more solid material, compare to what looks to me a 1/4" piece of foam/plastic.I don't have a problem spending a bit more of time cutting the backerboard. So to me I will Prefer the Cement Borad Method or any other similar process and/or materials. my .02 by the way
Jerk Of All Trades that's why you are doing the water proof membrane over the entire wall. That will prevent the water to penetrate the board and the 2x4s
carrying a whole shower in to a house in one trip with kboard and wedi ill take that any day but to each their own. Wedi and Schulter make boards from 1/8 to 2in and can be cut with a utility knife. cuts way easier than cement board and no dust either. Also it depends on if you use cement board or fiber cement board. fiber board shouldn't get set below a shower pan there needs to be a gap because it wicks water more while the approved method for cement board is for it to be set into the mud bed after your pre pitch. Wet areas are only water proof if the proper mil thickness was achieved with a roll on application.Schulter is waterproof because of capillary action. When there is proper coverage, the thin set fills all the pores in the kerdi and damns up any water. Thin set is not waterproof at the moment. Old ships were done similar to wedi tight joints and sealant. it's not a new process they just use a waterproofing sealant to do so. Also those systems cut down on time. A mud bed needs a few days to adequately dry after being packed whereas a foam pan and shower system is ready in 30 min after sealing everything up with wedi. . Proper waterproofing, drainage, and adequate slope is the most important thing, not air. Simple doesn't mean waterproof.
cool idea 😎 i see ur .02 and gonna kick ya nickel 🤔 why not just use house wrap keeping it water proof and breathable. before ya know our tubs will be full of dimes😉👉
Wow! I wish you were my neighbor and helping me with shower install and I was paying you in beer! Would you ever use a shower pan without a tile lip? It mounts between the walls and gets a polyurethane caulk to make a seal. I was looking at a shower tray from for Porcelanosa.
Interesting to see how it's done overseas. I'm from Finland, and here we never include the bathtube to the construction. The walls and floor are waterproofed and tiled, then bathtube, shower cabin or freestanding shower is installed. But anyway, interesting to see and thanks for sharing! And btw, Ardex is by my opinion one of the best products! Keep up the good work!
Have a window in my shower and can be sure flippers did not bother to waterproof anything. I like the 2nd and 3rd option, but. No idea what they are made of or what their guarantee/warrantees are like. Looks reall straightforeward-thanks!
I have used the Schlüter System several times and my only complaint is that I have found 16” on Center to be too great. The boards actually seem to become concave. I have found that I need 12” on Center to prevent that from happening. Great Video and tips.
I would use 2 because it seems more cost effective and easier to use than hardy board. I actually have a remodeled shower where they didn't seal the hardy board so now I'm getting worried. I know the pan was done correctly. Does it matter if you live in a high humidity house or not? It's been in 6 years now and still working well. Thanks for the video. I love it. ❣️
I prefer Schulter. They have a wall system that is a roll out membrane. You can go over any surface. But if I’m just doing a tile surround over a tub. I use permabase concrete boards and red guard. It’s most durable and fastest to lay tile on.
Great video...The cement board looks like its harder to work with especially if doing it alone but looks like it would hold the tiles better. Something about a soft wall holding tiles scares me.
I noticed you used plastic sheeting as a vapor barier , then hung cement board, then used a roll on membrane to waterproof your shower. I have read and seen videos that say not to do both because the wall system cannot breath or chance of backer board holding moisture . Just a thought.
1/4" mold resistant drywall with 3 layers of Redgard and waterproofing tape on all joints and corners on the bottom half of the walls. Water doesn't sit on the shower wall 1 foot above your head. Showers always fail at the same spot, bottom corners and the curb so thats where the focus needs to be on waterproofing.
Frankie has raised an important concern that I share. The damage might come from one slip in the shower by an adult; not necessarily from kids. But the manufacturer's of foam products must have thought of this. So if they have published any results of "destructive testing" then you ought to re-publish that, in support of your splendid video. Keep up the great work, Jeff. You're a rising star.
Right Frankie I have an Autistic son who loves his shower . Kicks the walls ect . He would destroy that foam rubbish . I went 9mm Cement sheeting with studs at 300 centres with a rubberised epoxy membrane . Works like a treat far quicker and cheaper .
There are destructive tests called Robinson floor tester. It is how flooring gets classified as residential, commercial, or industrial. I had heard that Kerri board was being tested as a flooring underlayment, but haven't heard any verification. Plenty strong enough to handle an adult slip.
I used Laticrete Hydrobarrier over Durock on the first tub surround I had done as a contractor a few months ago and was thoroughly impressed. After the recommended 3 coats you could just feel and see how secure an impenetrable it was. Another thing I liked is that it gave a really nice, unobstructed surface to set the tile on. Not a lot of build up at the joints or bumps in the field.
Thanks for letting us know, maybe we should do a tutorial using it. That's one of the concerns that might be overlooked...how smooth is the finished product. It's not that big of a deal with larger tiles but smaller ones it could be a problem.
That's a concern of mine as well. Durock has 2 sides, rough side for mortar and smooth side for mastic. If you RedGuard (or equivalent) the boards, they are all smooth. Doesn't that create an adhesion problem? Your videos are absolutely awesome BTW. There are only two other TH-cam bathroom contractors I subscribe to (HouseImprovements and TileMasterGA) Their videos are a little different than yours, not good or bad, just a different instruction method (like Bruce Lee, your style is to have no style, but to flow like water, lol). What I like about yours is the quality of your videos (audio/video) and how you break down the MANY ways of doing a job rather than just how you are doing it today. You also always highlight the tools and materials (your tile cutting video and troweling video is a perfect example of this.) VERY easy for the layperson to pick up on. Thanks again for these fantastic tutorials. You open up the mysterious world of construction to the everyday homeowner.
I've been watching him demonstrate preslopes all morning, so I think you are confused. It's the STARR TILE guy that's non-preslope, no pebbles in the weep holes crazy.
Wow! The Kerdi board looks amazingly easy to work with. I used something I think was called "green board" (or wonder board?), years ago and it was a struggle for me as, like cement board, the panels were a bit heavy for one woman to work with but this looks totally doable.
thank you, that's Steve in the videos doing all the work. He's my co-founder over on Bathroom Repair Tutor. Yah, Wedi is amazingly simple to install. KERDI and Wedi are imo better than cement board but I can understand why some opt for it.
Thank you so much! Much needed information. Family calls me Bob da Builder. Thanks again my home was built in 1973 I think I am going to do the 3rd one Wedi board .....
Your video is amazing, you are making me feel like I can do my shower DYI style!!!. I have heard great things about Kerdi but have never heard of wedi. I love the light weight and easy to cut boards so 1 of the 2 I mention will be my choice.
This is such a perfect video as we are remodeling our master bathroom. My husband is very handy but, I think we could learn a lot from this video as we have never re done a shower before, thank you!!
After having a home with a walk in tile shower, I prefer a fiberglass shower from bottom to top. I know it’s not the most aesthetically pleasing compared to a nice tile and color coordinated but it’s much easier to clean and can last a very long time.
I have been thinking about this too. Thank you. Also I was considering an alternative like those full 4x8 sheets of synthetic marble cut to fit so there is a minimum amount of seems. Less tile work with less chances for water leakage... now days they have so many colors or none at all. And prices are reasonable... have a great day and be well.
Steve deserves a raise, good job! This goes wrong at wood studs, they should be steel, but such is the usual USA building style...and yes, I'm American but worked jobsites in Europe for 8 years. Wood and water isn't a good mix, build your home with steel studs or cement block.
Been doing showers.tub surrounds for two decades..in Mexico and western Canada. I use the wedi preformed shower pan, wedi caulking between all joints with cement board on the walls/ceiling. Then coat all walls and corner tape with ardex 8+9 as per instructions.3 coats on everything. One kit costs about 70 dollars cdn. Leak free everytime. Ardex makes the best products in the industry. Period! Fester makes a product similar to 8+9 for waterproofing showers floors and cement block walls in mexico/south America. I got laughed at by mexican tile setters for coating the terrace floor and showers of the wifes house. No leaks.building science people,use it!
thank you, please let us know if you have other installation questions. Getting the pan and main floor installation correct is very important but we can assist with those tips 👍🏼
Cement board with topical membrane isn't the cheapest. Red guard is costly. And two coats takes time. I think schlueter is cheapest. I do 6mm plastic first then put up hardibacker. That is the cheapest. And it's faster.
I prefer 1/2” hardibacker because I’m guaranteed I have a flush and flat surface. Durock May seem easy to work with but is too crumbly and weak. The schluter stuff is crazy expensive for what it is. Redguard and aquaseal goes a long way.
First, I double stud the walls and block the floor every 16" to 24" if I can't double joists especially with I-joists. Then I use either 1/2" or 3/4" ( I prefer 3/4") plywood on the walls, 3/4" on the floor. Then, from the floor to ceiling if 8' high I use Grace Ice and Water Shield and Tyvek Flexwrap at corners of bottom and over the drain (the stuff sticks extremely well to Grace and PVC or metal and the bond gets better over time). The Grace is a vapor barrier. I still put the membrane down for added protection then cement board on the walls. The double studs, plywood and floor blocking (bridging) helps almost eliminate deflection which prevents the corners from cracking so you don't have to caulk them if you don't want to. Did several jobs this way over the past several years and my own bathroom 6 years ago and I've had zero issues and no cracks at the corners. Not saying it's the right way or wrong way, just another method to think about. I wish all of you success in your shower/tub surround adventures!
Thanks 20footcommute, we like the systems because they provide a warranty for both the homeowner and installer. But totally respect your method, sounds very solid.
I have decided to use the schluter system for the bathroom renovation that I am currently completing. Thanks for the video as it was very informative and helped me finalize my decision on which product and method to use.
I'm a novice and about to remodel my bathroom by byself. This video was helpful but I wish you would show all the materials at some point or list the names so that when I go shopping I will know exactly what to buy or to ask for and I can check the list as I get the items (and I won't miss anything).Out of the tree methods, as a woman who does not have a truck to transport heavy and large items I think that I'm going to use the Kerdi board (the only reason I can quote that name is because I saw it printed on the board and not because you provided us with the brand name/spelling to buy it). I see myself being able to pick it up at the store by myself, transport it in my car, take it upstairs and handle it while trying to secure it to the wall. The only thing that I'm wondering about is how a light board like this one would be able to hold row after row of heavy tiles? Also what about the waterproofing process of the space around the faucets and shower heads? While waste all that time waterproofing every other surface while leaving those spaces open underneath the faucets area?
thank you for your feedback and we do have a course that shows all the products we use and how to install them. It can be found over on Bathroom Repair Tutor (bathroomrepairtutor.com/) you might really like the courses over there. We also have a complete KERDI-BOARD tutorial here on TH-cam that shows how to waterproof the tub spout, mixing valve, tub-to-KERDI transition and more. Here's the link to that video th-cam.com/video/OTf2gG-J-o8/w-d-xo.html KERDI-BOARD can hold large format tiles. In the above video I tiled that shower with 12x24 inch porcelain tiles. Let me know if you have any questions
I am a DIY not a professional. I learned a lot here. Thank you. My personal preference is the cement board. I only have one reason why. I am thick headed and fear change. Other than that, the other 2 methods looked like you were using the same technique as a dry wall guy. Again, thank you for the video.
Thanks Angelo, you'd like wedi and KERDI-BOARD. Totally understand why you'd like cement board though. Keep in mind that wedi has been around for over 30 years. Lots of time for testing and refinement
Are all 3 methods widely available? Can i walk into home depot or lowes to buy them? I havent ever redone a bathroom but this video makes it look easy!
USG (makers of Durock) now sell a lightweight 1/2" backer board just like Kerdi. I got mine for $31.50/sheet (3x5). Laticrete also makes basically the same thing, called Hydro Ban Board, for about the same price. The price is roughly 3x cement board, but worth it imho.
I've always used cement board, but I haven't done a remodel in years so I would have to look at the other two products weigh the pros and cons against the cement board, which I'm most familiar with, and see what the cost and Time Savings are between all three products
+Danny House it's easy to use, just make sure to only use Wedi screws, washers and joint sealant as any other products could void your warranty. Our price for a 3x5' panel is $40, so try to get that price 👍
I would strongly suggest you take a look at. Waterproofing systems by Schönox. Their HA and IFix with HA fabric are so easy to do and provide structural strength in an hours, ready for tile.
+marshalluniversity31 we recommend homeowners follow their local building code and a vapor barrier behind cement board might be required. That said, we do not recommend a plastic vapor barrier for KERDI-BOARD or Wedi
Home Repair Tutor agreed. those boards would be creating the same situation as a paint on membrane and vapor barrier. behind. i believe current code is 4 mil plastic behind cement board currently unless local codes differ. I personally have used plastic barriers for years and no issues yet anyway
+marshalluniversity31 good to know, my apologies on the confusion. Probably should have specified the difference between the foam boards and cement board. Do you have any experience with GoBoard? We're going to try it on an upcoming project.
+marshalluniversity31 will do, it's about $20 for a 3x5 foot sheet here in Pittsburgh. Johns Manville makes it. We'll have a video tutorial installing it over a custom KBRS pan.
I do have a question for you if you could answer it for me. Im currently framing the first walk in shower thats bigger than the standard size piece of pan liner bought at lowes. Whats the best way to join two pieces of liner and where is the best place in the floor to join when necessary? The shower is 6'×5' with a 16" deep bench on one end that stretches across one of the 5' walls with the shower valve and head on the opposite wall. I was considering covering the bench with the liner first and then with hardie board and then use a water proofing membrane after that. Could I trouble you for your thoughts on the matter?
great video, thanks. not sure why tape the tub flange joint. the tape does not adhear to the tub so it's essentially useless. tile down to it and seal with sil?
I am about to start waterproofing, and I had this same question... what is the tape adhering to? It was my understanding that tiling over the gap was all that was needed.
I also do not see the need to tape tub or shower base flange. Eight years ago, I used Hardi Backer as the board, taped all joints with thin-set and fiberglass tape (except the tub flange). I don't even think I decided to try and seal the flange to the Hardi Backer board under the tile, I would think this joint is going to flex a little and would probably crack any seal you put there anyway...I just tiled over and sealed the tile to tub with flexible silicone white caulk. If you really wanted to do something before tiling, maybe shoot a line of some flexible caulking in there for extra credit. I think the Hardi Backer board is a cross b/t cement and the others in the video. It is very dense and stiff like cement board, not as heavy though. Easy to cut with hand-held jigsaw. It is not as "gritty" as cement board either. My thought is that it would hold up better and not flex as much as the two non-cement board products in the video. I coated the whole surface with a blue water-proof sealer...I think by Laticrete. Then tiled. I went back and forth with putting up a plastic barrier behind the Hardi Board, but decided against it and to let it breathe. It has been trouble-free for eight years and going strong! I am not a pro, but getting ready to start my 4th bathroom total gut and remodel and plan to do the same. I hope Hardi Board is still available. Go DIY'ers!!
+Lois Baker sure...KERDI and Wedi have great warranties while cement board is dependent on the manufacturer. KERDI is more expensive than the other two but easy to use, awesome customer service and like I said a fantastic warranty. Wedi is waterproof the whole way through as long as you don't pierce the second cementicious layer. It's also easy to use. Cement board is the cheapest but keep in mind it should be waterproofed with something like RedGard or HydroBan or Ardex 8+9. Plus it's heavy and a pain to adjust. Hope that helps 👍
You should consider for all the time you put into your videos linking the products (not on your site) to your Amazon store. It would make it nice for us and you'd get a kick back from Amazon. Win win! Thanks guys!
I have tried all 3. I prefer cement board with red guard. red guard is waterproof paint and visually striking so it's impossible to miss a spot. wedi board is almost 4x more expensive than cement board and not as strong. the Wedi joint sealent also sucks. but I would make wedi my 2nd choice. Schluder is the worst of these choices. it's the most expensive, and the unmodified thinset is *not* waterproof, which means the kerdi mesh is going to get wet. if there is any micro tears in the mesh water will get through. also, the mesh is prone to slight folds and bumps which shows up in your tile work on top, and people tend to shave it off, ruining the seal(!) kerdi is also incredibly expensive. DO NOT PUT ON RED GUARD WITHOUT A HIGH QUALITY MASK. it will kill your brain cells
Sorry to say that you will most likely be having trouble getting rid of the constant mold. Any product that is modified contains latex. Latex is organic. Which is a food source for mold. In any shower, unmodified thinset should be the only thinset used.
Thanks for the clear methods and I prefer the "Durock" way because it appears less flexible then the "Wiedy" way and since it will be done over furing strips and brick, as well as a shaft way that is between two vertical areas, that must be plum first. I used a waterproofer and now am a little wiser, since I was't aware that the stainless steel screws should also be covered with that very fine screen like tape, followed by more of the waterproofer. I will need to examine the wall I did five years ago because I'd used plastic butcher block panels instead of Durock in some areas. At that time, I was not able to tear down the whole wall, then plum the large shaft way between the two walls so I built over the existing wall and wound up with an uneven job because the former tenant used wood vertically near the edge on one side of the brick section (an inch and a half made it look like a wave on the right side of the wall). I need to redo that wall.
+Mary M you'll love it, not cheap but worth the money. Their technical support is the best. I totally understand the appeal of cement board's cost but that's about all it has going for it
Jeff Patterson I sent the video to my friend I work with. His house, he buys the materials...he might go for it. He gets the area ready and I tile it. The shower we have going now has been difficult, still not ready for me to tile.
Rick Fountain You are so right. I have done various things on 6 flip houses, it was the hardest thing I have done so far. I did enjoy it, though. We are almost finished with the current house...except for bathrooms...lol
I'm remodeling our bathroom in a few weeks or less ( wife will tell) and it is very helpful to see all this little details. I like the idea of using the lighter materials. I'm definitely look into it.
The 3rd method I think is great, but I like the first one too... The second method looks a little messy..... ( Steve should use some gloves or mask, safety first! ) Another great video. !!!
These take a little time to properly assemble and th-cam.com/users/postUgkxd5EBUeJB1fVVN1ZqLyQDXE7lWSDxtioi after installation , but the end result is fantastic. Very pleased.
great video. i have used Hardie backer for a shower i the UK. very strong. i am building another shower with the same. interesting that Hardie's own video does not mention liquid waterproofing. their advice seems to be to tile straight onto the substrate. have i missed something? (i have had no problems with my shower after a year- tiled straight onto the board.)
The walls next to my shower were Sheetrock. They rotted. I don’t want to mess with my shower but I need to waterproof the walls. I removed the sheet rock board behind the shower tile. Can I slide the Kerdi or Wedi board behind the tile of the shower where I removed the sheet rock? How would I join edge of tiled shower with the side and bottom of floor? Can I paint it or do I tile the whole wall? The floor is Mexican tiles and the shower is white tiles. Thank you for your awesome video and your help and support ❤ MaryAnne
You never stated the pros and cons for each method. And I would be very interested to hear them. I am about to re-do my bathroom over. Definetly looking for the best method!💯
THE ONE AND ONLY WAY - THE BEST WAY HANDS DOWN - MUST READ ->>> Had a leaky shower. Hired contractor, used cement board and the black painted on membrane stuff. lasted for 6 months then leaked. Contractor came back and said this is this is way it is supposed to be done, sorry it leaked so what do you want me to do? I said rip it all out, re-line it with cement board and then lets fiberglass it like a boat. So that is what he did. We just bought regular fiberglass resin and mat. Applied the fiberglass resin to cement board then the mat and then more resin just like a boat, did 3 layers and ended up about 1/4 to 3/8 thick. Did this on floor and 95% up walls. After it set up and cured we mudded it and tiled it. Done deal and that was in 1998. Sold that house 4 yrs later and still know one of the neighbors. He says the shower stall is still exactly as we did it with the same tile and there has been no leaks for 19 yrs now. This is now my "GO TO" method for shower stalls. Since then I have talked other people into doing it exactly that way and it has never failed yet. I know where there are plenty of old fiberglass boats, some over 40 yrs old and they all still float and if let set with the drain plug in, will fill with water. Fiberglass on a shower stall like this is pretty well permanent and if done right will last as long as the house and simply NEVER leak. After explaining this to friends, they decided to do it the exact same way. It is dead simple to do also. Any fool can mix resin, roll it on, stick some fiberglass mat to it and roll on more resin to seal up the mat, then do same again total of 3 times and end up with 1/4 to 3/8 fiberglass thickness and a total permanent seal. Nice thing is, it leaves a nice rough irregular surface the mud sticks to extremely well so you can then stick on the tiles. Once you do a shower stall like this, you will see it makes so much sense and is so easy to do, you will never ever even consider doing it any other way ever again. My contractor was blown away and has done many this exact way. He sells them as "forever showers" guaranteed to NEVER EVER leak and none ever have. Fiberglass your shower stalls and stop worrying, it will never ever leak and will outlast you.
@renaissancemen1 Just curious, how would you know if the pan was pre-sloped or not ? You pre-slope first, then you install liner, then you mud and slope again to 1/4" per foot to drain area, right? So how would you know by the time you came to do the tile work ?? One TH-camr says no need to pre-slope and is an expert at re-doing other failed Tile installs and then some swear up and down to pre-slope or DIE !! Which one guarantees less time & money and still done 100% correct waterproof ?
I don't believe a word you typed. You are a daydreamer and a spoofer. For others reading this, using resin and fiberglass would result in a very wavy wall for tile to lay flat on, unless you were an expert boat builder. Portland cement will not bind to resins. So tile mortared to resin would simply fall off. This guy reminds me of Ralphie from A Christmas Story.
Ridiculous. It may be possible, but simply not worth it. Far better to just use paints made specifically for this application. They tend to not only waterproof the cement boards, but can also help the cement/mortar with adhesion and prevent small cracks due to their flexibility. They make fiberglass shower walls; better to just go with those if you want to skip tile altogether. If your shower leaked, there was something wrong with how it was installed. Also, in most cases, a leak is not something that shows up easily, and can be missed for many years. yet somehow you found one, but shared nothing about where it was, etc.? Your suggestion carries with it far more problems than most realize. I''m inclined to believe the other poster. None of what you said is believable when all context is taken in. I have demolished a few bathrooms and while they appeared to be fine and had no evidence of any leaks, some of them had clear water damage underneath. The bathroom in my current house had so much damage that a big section of wood flooring had to be replaced and some studs along the walls as well. Far too many contractors don't do quality work, will miss details, and even cut corners in materials used and time spent. There is absolutely no one way or best way. The right way is someone that knows what they are doing and cares about doing it well.
Correct. There is no issue with cement board getting water! It is the framing that is being protected. So using a vapor/moisture barrier infront of the framing is all that is needed.
We always waterproof our cement board with Redgurd. Most cement board is not waterproof material so for us we use Regard to guarantee a good waterproof seal. Plastic being placed behind the cement board allows water to penetrate the cement board so that method is not something we would do.
The cement board is designed to get wet and then drain. The plastic behind is all that is required. If you have presloped your pan correctly then it will all drain. If done correctly then this method will last thirty years. I have done close to 500 showers and this is the proper method.
For what the Kerdi and Wedi board cost, I'll stick with the old fashioned cement board thanks. I'm not going to spend 1000's of dollars to remodel my shower on just all the backing structure. That's crazy. After you get all your tiles, grout, doors, fixtures. etc. your shower would land up costing you $10K
Wedi and Kerdi Board are pricier that cement board but a standard shower shouldn’t cost anywhere near that. Wedi tub kits cost $522 max, a good tub is $800 or less, tile is up to you, grout is maybe $80-$100 if it’s pre-mixed, and a glass door is $1200 on up. And those prices are for a darn nice shower. Plus you get a 10-year warranty on the backer board.
I want to know where you live because I looked up the Wedi kits at my local box stores. For a shower that is 36X60, which is a nice shower size, the kit here is $1400 bucks! I'm not referring to the tub/shower kit, those are cheaper but not what I'm looking to do. I want to rehab my walk in shower. I want to go larger and do all tile instead of the fiberglass insert. For what I want to do, the price of the Wedi kit isn't economical for me. I will do it the old fashioned way with cement board and mortar.
In that case you’re right - look into the KBRS ShowerSlope Kit which is cheaper but still customizable. And cement board can be used www.homerepairtutor.com/kbrs-showerslope/
Great video! Do you need to seal with caulk first in the corner wall/wall and wall/floor joints, and then apply as you have shown or not worry about caulking?
Im about to do 2 bathroom remodels. Im leaning towards the kerdi system. The waterproofing of the cement backerboard is the expensive part in my area. The red stuff cost $100.
getting ready to attempt my first tub surround. I was planning on using Crete board but never knew about the sealer until I started looking on you tube. I had the understanding that you just seal all the joints with thin set. is the sealer necessary.
Good video. I like all three methods. But since you said pick one it would be backer board. That's only because the other two didn't seem as rigid as backer board. I have never seen or even knew about the other two products. The ease of cutting them and carrying them is a plus, tho.
+Lisa Libeer yes, foam boards are way easier to work with than cement board...although pricier. That said, cement board has its place. You just need to waterproof it with a liquid or sheet membrane.
Very nicely done demonstrations. I'm 61 , disabled , and retired. Too cheap to pay a contractor. I think I'll try one of the lightweight systems you showed. Have osteoarthritis everywhere. Savings will go to a vacation in the south seas. How do you get a lazy son and his girlfriend to help ? Thank you and good luck.
Nice tutorial... I haven`t found any plastic vapour barrier while removing old shower screen panels for renovation. After your video I`m thinking about it... You have placed a plastic film under cement board. Is that recommended for all the bathroom walls around or for shower cavity only, please? What sort of plastic do you use. Shouls it be something special (probably perforated) or any plastic would be OK?
Great video production. I would use the Kerdi method. I like the taped seams and ease of cutting. I am finishing my attic space and this may be a great method for me. Thanks a lot!!
Yes, I have a large attic space. Finishing 1150 square feet. Thankfully the previous owner had the builder run dry plumbing and drain lines to the second floor. Love your videos. Very helpful and they do not waste a lot of time. Great production.
Do you have an opinion on tiling the ceiling of a shower? If so, should the same backer be used as the rest of the shower? (cement board/kerdi/etc.) Thanks!
@Bob Hoffman if it's acrylic or fiberglass, probably not. But check the manufacturer's recommendations - not a bad idea to use insulation in the walls, we like Rockwool
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My dad is 70 years old and his house is falling apart I'm his youngest son and I'm gonna go re do his bathroom using these tips. Wish me luck
Good luck. Howd it go
You got it bro. Its so much easier than it might seem to do this stuff. Just plan ahead, and take your time. You will be golden.
Good luck take pictures
Steve makes it look so easy - this is what you pay for when you hire a professional, their expertise. I can probably do this myself but it will probably take 10x longer and with a ton of headaches along the way. Still can't wait to tackle a project when I get my first house.
We’re doing Wedi in our walk-in. Looks super strong and fool proof! The contractor actually removed the Tile-Ready pan and hardie that they’d put in so far, at their own cost and started installing Wedi.
I've been using Schluter to their specs. It's not mentioned in your great summary that Kerdi board comes in several different thicknesses - this can be a boon when you need either full tile support (board to studs) or just a veneer (board over other wall material). Also, Schluter pipe seals and profiles are cool to use.
It would be very informative to provide an idea of the cost of each of the 3 alternatives.
OMG so I have been wanting to redo my shower FOREVER now. You have no idea how grateful I am for this step -to-step video. I definitely will be getting the wedi Tub Surround Kit. I think it would be easier for me to install (especially if I can't get some assistance. )
Thank you!!!!!
Leave it to the professionals
I have been cheated by so many "professionals" to the point I said "I can do that". I am a 5'6" 130 lb woman who has conquered what a man feels he can only accomplish. So "Chiodera's Corner" go for it. Everything in this video is good common sense with some tips to make it easier. Think about going epoxy walls..check out Leggari or Stone Coat Epoxy they will give you the confidence..
All 3 are proper methods! As tile setter, I’ve used all 3. Wedi is the hardest to clean, as the sealant is petroleum based and its very expensive. But thanks for a video showing PROPER waterproofing methods.
Thanks Terry, appreciate your kind words and taking the time to watch our videos
Here N There Ede
What would you use to waterproof the cement board? Liquid membrane?
Veronica Gutierrez Yes. I find that using fiber tape at seems is advisable. I just paint it in with the waterproofing.
@@herenthere10 Is thinset on seams necessary if you use waterproof membrane and cloth in seams or do you need to do both?? thank you
What an incredibly likable and knowledgable guy.
I'm doing a shower for the first time, and think I'll go with cement board. The main reason is cost. Thanks for the excellent video. It was very informative to a lay person like me.
+Junah Birchwater glad to help, if you have any questions just shoot me an email jeff@homerepairtutor.com
Did it fail yet?
@@grizzly8859 You certainly did.
@@grizzly8859 you mean the cement board?
This is a complete encyclopedia of a "how to" to water proof the tub and surround. The next task at hand is the tile but you got me by making sure it was water PROOF. Brilliant and genius. I somehow thought the tile and grout did that job. Thanks sooooooo much
I like the cement board option. Very sturdy and you could apply more mortar for unlevel, unsquare older homes.
agreed
Thanks I liked the way you did you video with the voice over explaining what Steve was installing and how. Very well done and more helpful compared to several that I have seen.
I am an Stucco contractor and I have seen many issues with mold and rot, rule number one to avoid mold and rot is AIR, materials need to be able to breath.
That been said, I rather use the Cement Board method but with a little twist.
First thing I will do to my bathroom is instead of cover the entire wall with plastic like you did I would do the plastic installation from the tub up to just a little above the shower and not all the way up, that way yes I am protecting the studs from possible water but at the same time in case of a leak or moisture build up I did not cover the entire wall with plastic, in that way I'm allowing the air to breath through the wall if needed.
Second, I would prebuild the niche out 2x4s cut the Cement board to the shape of the niche and then install the premade tile ready niche on top, then properly seal it with the waterproof membrane and mesh.
The other reason I like Cement board and the pre made niche against the third method is because we have less changes of a leak since we are basically joining to pieces together compare to the third method you show where you cut a bunch of pieces and join them together with silicon. to me is a NO, NO, the more joints the more chances of a potential leak.
Second method use thinset to seal all the joints with the mesh, while Thinset is some what waterproof, I don't feel comfortable sealing my joints with a mix of cement, sand and water. Once again we come to the Cement board where all joints are seal with a mesh and a water proof membrane which leaves no gaps or joints,it becomes a ONE seal, ONE complete coat, ONE waterproof membrane. and once again the less joints the less changes of leak.
The other reason I will go with the Cement board is because is a more solid material, compare to what looks to me a 1/4" piece of foam/plastic.I don't have a problem spending a bit more of time cutting the backerboard.
So to me I will Prefer the Cement Borad Method or any other similar process and/or materials.
my .02 by the way
macrapidito Would you plastic wrap all the way up and over if it is a steam shower?
Jerk Of All Trades that's why you are doing the water proof membrane over the entire wall.
That will prevent the water to penetrate the board and the 2x4s
carrying a whole shower in to a house in one trip with kboard and wedi ill take that any day but to each their own. Wedi and Schulter make boards from 1/8 to 2in and can be cut with a utility knife. cuts way easier than cement board and no dust either. Also it depends on if you use cement board or fiber cement board. fiber board shouldn't get set below a shower pan there needs to be a gap because it wicks water more while the approved method for cement board is for it to be set into the mud bed after your pre pitch. Wet areas are only water proof if the proper mil thickness was achieved with a roll on application.Schulter is waterproof because of capillary action. When there is proper coverage, the thin set fills all the pores in the kerdi and damns up any water. Thin set is not waterproof at the moment. Old ships were done similar to wedi tight joints and sealant. it's not a new process they just use a waterproofing sealant to do so. Also those systems cut down on time. A mud bed needs a few days to adequately dry after being packed whereas a foam pan and shower system is ready in 30 min after sealing everything up with wedi. . Proper waterproofing, drainage, and adequate slope is the most important thing, not air. Simple doesn't mean waterproof.
cool idea 😎 i see ur .02 and gonna kick ya nickel 🤔 why not just use house wrap keeping it water proof and breathable. before ya know our tubs will be full of dimes😉👉
Wow! I wish you were my neighbor and helping me with shower install and I was paying you in beer! Would you ever use a shower pan without a tile lip? It mounts between the walls and gets a polyurethane caulk to make a seal. I was looking at a shower tray from for Porcelanosa.
Interesting to see how it's done overseas. I'm from Finland, and here we never include the bathtube to the construction. The walls and floor are waterproofed and tiled, then bathtube, shower cabin or freestanding shower is installed. But anyway, interesting to see and thanks for sharing! And btw, Ardex is by my opinion one of the best products! Keep up the good work!
thanks and totally agree on the Ardex...plus they're located not far from Pittsburgh (where we live)
Oh God, one more time these guys. Thanks for teaching us all this stuff. Thanks Steve
Your videos are the best things to come out of Pittsburgh in a LONG time!!!
I would use kerdi board if I could afford it, but im using durock and redgard for my installation. Excellent demo and video. Thanks.
Why would you use an inferior product? Spend the extra now and save thousands down the road.
Have a window in my shower and can be sure flippers did not bother to waterproof anything. I like the 2nd and 3rd option, but. No idea what they are made of or what their guarantee/warrantees are like. Looks reall straightforeward-thanks!
I have used the Schlüter System several times and my only complaint is that I have found 16” on Center to be too great. The boards actually seem to become concave. I have found that I need 12” on Center to prevent that from happening. Great Video and tips.
I would use 2 because it seems more cost effective and easier to use than hardy board. I actually have a remodeled shower where they didn't seal the hardy board so now I'm getting worried. I know the pan was done correctly. Does it matter if you live in a high humidity house or not? It's been in 6 years now and still working well. Thanks for the video. I love it. ❣️
Loved that multiple methods were covered very quickly! Very helpful stuff, thanks!
I prefer Schulter. They have a wall system that is a roll out membrane. You can go over any surface. But if I’m just doing a tile surround over a tub. I use permabase concrete boards and red guard. It’s most durable and fastest to lay tile on.
Great video...The cement board looks like its harder to work with especially if doing it alone but looks like it would hold the tiles better. Something about a soft wall holding tiles scares me.
Don't be scared of foam boards, they're more solid than you think. Cement board is a good option but not the only one to consider.
I noticed you used plastic sheeting as a vapor barier , then hung cement board, then used a roll on membrane to waterproof your shower. I have read and seen videos that say not to do both because the wall system cannot breath or chance of backer board holding moisture . Just a thought.
1/4" mold resistant drywall with 3 layers of Redgard and waterproofing tape on all joints and corners on the bottom half of the walls. Water doesn't sit on the shower wall 1 foot above your head. Showers always fail at the same spot, bottom corners and the curb so thats where the focus needs to be on waterproofing.
You are going to have a problem with mold.
This video was soooo helpful ❤️
Should you waterproof the ceiling in your bathroom? If so, what to do it you don’t want to tile the ceiling?
I like the cement board, because it's more rigid. That could be a plus if your kids are rough in the shower and bang on the walls regarding tile.
I understand where you're coming from, don't discount the strength of the foam products. They're made to withstand a lot of weight.
Frankie has raised an important concern that I share. The damage might come from one slip in the shower by an adult; not necessarily from kids. But the manufacturer's of foam products must have thought of this. So if they have published any results of "destructive testing" then you ought to re-publish that, in support of your splendid video.
Keep up the great work, Jeff. You're a rising star.
A shower should be built for two adults being youthful. It’s inevitable ;-)
Right Frankie I have an Autistic son who loves his shower . Kicks the walls ect . He would destroy that foam rubbish . I went 9mm Cement sheeting with studs at 300 centres with a rubberised epoxy membrane . Works like a treat far quicker and cheaper .
There are destructive tests called Robinson floor tester. It is how flooring gets classified as residential, commercial, or industrial. I had heard that Kerri board was being tested as a flooring underlayment, but haven't heard any verification. Plenty strong enough to handle an adult slip.
I would have loved to hear the differences between these boards... the pros and cons you mentioned there was. Thank You for this video!
I used Laticrete Hydrobarrier over Durock on the first tub surround I had done as a contractor a few months ago and was thoroughly impressed. After the recommended 3 coats you could just feel and see how secure an impenetrable it was. Another thing I liked is that it gave a really nice, unobstructed surface to set the tile on. Not a lot of build up at the joints or bumps in the field.
Thanks for letting us know, maybe we should do a tutorial using it. That's one of the concerns that might be overlooked...how smooth is the finished product. It's not that big of a deal with larger tiles but smaller ones it could be a problem.
That's a concern of mine as well. Durock has 2 sides, rough side for mortar and smooth side for mastic. If you RedGuard (or equivalent) the boards, they are all smooth. Doesn't that create an adhesion problem?
Your videos are absolutely awesome BTW. There are only two other TH-cam bathroom contractors I subscribe to (HouseImprovements and TileMasterGA)
Their videos are a little different than yours, not good or bad, just a different instruction method (like Bruce Lee, your style is to have no style, but to flow like water, lol). What I like about yours is the quality of your videos (audio/video) and how you break down the MANY ways of doing a job rather than just how you are doing it today. You also always highlight the tools and materials (your tile cutting video and troweling video is a perfect example of this.) VERY easy for the layperson to pick up on.
Thanks again for these fantastic tutorials. You open up the mysterious world of construction to the everyday homeowner.
1GoblinGreen tilemasterga is a joke. Don't follow that clown. Doesn't believe in code for preslope. Stay away from that ass clown.
PRESLOPE!!!!!!!!!!
I've been watching him demonstrate preslopes all morning, so I think you are confused. It's the STARR TILE guy that's non-preslope, no pebbles in the weep holes crazy.
I've done a lot of showers with kerdi board. Great stuff. Pretty easy to make custom niches out of it too!
Wow! The Kerdi board looks amazingly easy to work with. I used something I think was called "green board" (or wonder board?), years ago and it was a struggle for me as, like cement board, the panels were a bit heavy for one woman to work with but this looks totally doable.
you'd like KERDI-BOARD and Wedi, super light and easy to use.
It's super expensive too
Absolutely worth the money!!!
I like the Kerdi Board method. Happily I found out at a major hardware dealer here in Australia
You make it all look so easy. The last method looked the easiest to me.
thank you, that's Steve in the videos doing all the work. He's my co-founder over on Bathroom Repair Tutor.
Yah, Wedi is amazingly simple to install. KERDI and Wedi are imo better than cement board but I can understand why some opt for it.
If I were to change from Hardi I would go to Wedi
Thank you so much! Much needed information. Family calls me Bob da Builder. Thanks again my home was built in 1973 I think I am going to do the 3rd one Wedi board .....
Your video is amazing, you are making me feel like I can do my shower DYI style!!!. I have heard great things about Kerdi but have never heard of wedi. I love the light weight and easy to cut boards so 1 of the 2 I mention will be my choice.
This is such a perfect video as we are remodeling our master bathroom. My husband is very handy but, I think we could learn a lot from this video as we have never re done a shower before, thank you!!
After having a home with a walk in tile shower, I prefer a fiberglass shower from bottom to top. I know it’s not the most aesthetically pleasing compared to a nice tile and color coordinated but it’s much easier to clean and can last a very long time.
I have been thinking about this too. Thank you. Also I was considering an alternative like those full 4x8 sheets of synthetic marble cut to fit so there is a minimum amount of seems. Less tile work with less chances for water leakage... now days they have so many colors or none at all. And prices are reasonable... have a great day and be well.
@@RestoreITdontJunkIT Try checking out Fibo wall panels. So many selections
Steve deserves a raise, good job! This goes wrong at wood studs, they should be steel, but such is the usual USA building style...and yes, I'm American but worked jobsites in Europe for 8 years. Wood and water isn't a good mix, build your home with steel studs or cement block.
Out of interest have you been working in the UK where I'm from ? as metal stud work is standard unless your a bodge job man.
Been doing showers.tub surrounds for two decades..in Mexico and western Canada. I use the wedi preformed shower pan, wedi caulking between all joints with cement board on the walls/ceiling. Then coat all walls and corner tape with ardex 8+9 as per instructions.3 coats on everything. One kit costs about 70 dollars cdn. Leak free everytime. Ardex makes the best products in the industry. Period! Fester makes a product similar to 8+9 for waterproofing showers floors and cement block walls in mexico/south America. I got laughed at by mexican tile setters for coating the terrace floor and showers of the wifes house. No leaks.building science people,use it!
Love that last sentence Brett...Building Science. Good explanation of why it's good to try these new products.
We plan to meet this week with a Wedi dealer and use this method for a roll in shower, thanks to your video and the install video you have. Thanks 👍
thank you, please let us know if you have other installation questions. Getting the pan and main floor installation correct is very important but we can assist with those tips 👍🏼
great video. well explained. but one question would be nice to know what is the cheapest and the most expensive method.
Mauricio Juarez wedi def the most expensive, then Schuler, Hardin backer is the cheapest
Cement board with topical membrane isn't the cheapest. Red guard is costly. And two coats takes time. I think schlueter is cheapest. I do 6mm plastic first then put up hardibacker. That is the cheapest. And it's faster.
Renaissance Man - I don't understand why 6mm plastic is necessary if one covers the hardibacker with a membrane like Schluter. Can you please explain?
I prefer 1/2” hardibacker because I’m guaranteed I have a flush and flat surface. Durock May seem easy to work with but is too crumbly and weak. The schluter stuff is crazy expensive for what it is. Redguard and aquaseal goes a long way.
@@JohnBoehners some people have a lot of money to waste on extra useless steps
First, I double stud the walls and block the floor every 16" to 24" if I can't double joists especially with I-joists. Then I use either 1/2" or 3/4" ( I prefer 3/4") plywood on the walls, 3/4" on the floor. Then, from the floor to ceiling if 8' high I use Grace Ice and Water Shield and Tyvek Flexwrap at corners of bottom and over the drain (the stuff sticks extremely well to Grace and PVC or metal and the bond gets better over time). The Grace is a vapor barrier. I still put the membrane down for added protection then cement board on the walls. The double studs, plywood and floor blocking (bridging) helps almost eliminate deflection which prevents the corners from cracking so you don't have to caulk them if you don't want to. Did several jobs this way over the past several years and my own bathroom 6 years ago and I've had zero issues and no cracks at the corners. Not saying it's the right way or wrong way, just another method to think about. I wish all of you success in your shower/tub surround adventures!
Thanks 20footcommute, we like the systems because they provide a warranty for both the homeowner and installer. But totally respect your method, sounds very solid.
I intend to use schluter systems in my 2 new remodels bathrooms
You chose wisely!
Excellent product 👌. Expensive is the only downside. $$$
I have decided to use the schluter system for the bathroom renovation that I am currently completing. Thanks for the video as it was very informative and helped me finalize my decision on which product and method to use.
I'm a novice and about to remodel my bathroom by byself. This video was helpful but I wish you would show all the materials at some point or list the names so that when I go shopping I will know exactly what to buy or to ask for and I can check the list as I get the items (and I won't miss anything).Out of the tree methods, as a woman who does not have a truck to transport heavy and large items I think that I'm going to use the Kerdi board (the only reason I can quote that name is because I saw it printed on the board and not because you provided us with the brand name/spelling to buy it). I see myself being able to pick it up at the store by myself, transport it in my car, take it upstairs and handle it while trying to secure it to the wall. The only thing that I'm wondering about is how a light board like this one would be able to hold row after row of heavy tiles? Also what about the waterproofing process of the space around the faucets and shower heads? While waste all that time waterproofing every other surface while leaving those spaces open underneath the faucets area?
thank you for your feedback and we do have a course that shows all the products we use and how to install them. It can be found over on Bathroom Repair Tutor (bathroomrepairtutor.com/) you might really like the courses over there.
We also have a complete KERDI-BOARD tutorial here on TH-cam that shows how to waterproof the tub spout, mixing valve, tub-to-KERDI transition and more. Here's the link to that video
th-cam.com/video/OTf2gG-J-o8/w-d-xo.html
KERDI-BOARD can hold large format tiles. In the above video I tiled that shower with 12x24 inch porcelain tiles. Let me know if you have any questions
I am a DIY not a professional. I learned a lot here. Thank you. My personal preference is the cement board. I only have one reason why. I am thick headed and fear change. Other than that, the other 2 methods looked like you were using the same technique as a dry wall guy. Again, thank you for the video.
Thanks Angelo, you'd like wedi and KERDI-BOARD. Totally understand why you'd like cement board though. Keep in mind that wedi has been around for over 30 years. Lots of time for testing and refinement
Are all 3 methods widely available? Can i walk into home depot or lowes to buy them? I havent ever redone a bathroom but this video makes it look easy!
cement board is in box stores, KERDI is at tile shops as is Wedi. There's a rumor that Wedi will he carried at Home Depot this year
USG (makers of Durock) now sell a lightweight 1/2" backer board just like Kerdi. I got mine for $31.50/sheet (3x5). Laticrete also makes basically the same thing, called Hydro Ban Board, for about the same price. The price is roughly 3x cement board, but worth it imho.
I've always used cement board, but I haven't done a remodel in years so I would have to look at the other two products weigh the pros and cons against the cement board, which I'm most familiar with, and see what the cost and Time Savings are between all three products
Let us know your thoughts on this...I'm wondering the same
Im building a bathroom and this Wedi board looks pretty good... I think I'm going to try that
+Danny House it's easy to use, just make sure to only use Wedi screws, washers and joint sealant as any other products could void your warranty. Our price for a 3x5' panel is $40, so try to get that price 👍
Cement board and hydro ban don’t even have to use fiber tape if gap not bigger than 1/8”
I would strongly suggest you take a look at. Waterproofing systems by Schönox. Their HA and IFix with HA fabric are so easy to do and provide structural strength in an hours, ready for tile.
doing a plastic barrier behind AND a waterproof membrane is bad practice. it creates a "mold sandwich" in the wall where moisture can not escape.
+marshalluniversity31 we recommend homeowners follow their local building code and a vapor barrier behind cement board might be required. That said, we do not recommend a plastic vapor barrier for KERDI-BOARD or Wedi
Home Repair Tutor agreed. those boards would be creating the same situation as a paint on membrane and vapor barrier. behind. i believe current code is 4 mil plastic behind cement board currently unless local codes differ. I personally have used plastic barriers for years and no issues yet anyway
+marshalluniversity31 good to know, my apologies on the confusion. Probably should have specified the difference between the foam boards and cement board. Do you have any experience with GoBoard? We're going to try it on an upcoming project.
Home Repair Tutor I haven't used it. i usually use hardi backer, and using wonderboard actually on a bath this coming week. let me know how that goes
+marshalluniversity31 will do, it's about $20 for a 3x5 foot sheet here in Pittsburgh. Johns Manville makes it. We'll have a video tutorial installing it over a custom KBRS pan.
It was interesting to learn of the last two methods but i always use a cement board and a waterproofing membrane and ive had 16 years of great results
Cement board isn't terrible, but many believe it's waterproof and don't use a membrane like yourself.
I do have a question for you if you could answer it for me. Im currently framing the first walk in shower thats bigger than the standard size piece of pan liner bought at lowes. Whats the best way to join two pieces of liner and where is the best place in the floor to join when necessary? The shower is 6'×5' with a 16" deep bench on one end that stretches across one of the 5' walls with the shower valve and head on the opposite wall. I was considering covering the bench with the liner first and then with hardie board and then use a water proofing membrane after that. Could I trouble you for your thoughts on the matter?
great video, thanks. not sure why tape the tub flange joint. the tape does not adhear to the tub so it's essentially useless. tile down to it and seal with sil?
I am about to start waterproofing, and I had this same question... what is the tape adhering to? It was my understanding that tiling over the gap was all that was needed.
I also do not see the need to tape tub or shower base flange. Eight years ago, I used Hardi Backer as the board, taped all joints with thin-set and fiberglass tape (except the tub flange). I don't even think I decided to try and seal the flange to the Hardi Backer board under the tile, I would think this joint is going to flex a little and would probably crack any seal you put there anyway...I just tiled over and sealed the tile to tub with flexible silicone white caulk. If you really wanted to do something before tiling, maybe shoot a line of some flexible caulking in there for extra credit.
I think the Hardi Backer board is a cross b/t cement and the others in the video. It is very dense and stiff like cement board, not as heavy though. Easy to cut with hand-held jigsaw. It is not as "gritty" as cement board either. My thought is that it would hold up better and not flex as much as the two non-cement board products in the video. I coated the whole surface with a blue water-proof sealer...I think by Laticrete. Then tiled. I went back and forth with putting up a plastic barrier behind the Hardi Board, but decided against it and to let it breathe. It has been trouble-free for eight years and going strong! I am not a pro, but getting ready to start my 4th bathroom total gut and remodel and plan to do the same. I hope Hardi Board is still available. Go DIY'ers!!
Paul Egan you chose wisely. NEVER vapor barrier with plastic and then use topical sealer. Use one or the other.
pat mac has
Would you clarify the pros and cons between the 3 methods? Great informative video
+Lois Baker sure...KERDI and Wedi have great warranties while cement board is dependent on the manufacturer. KERDI is more expensive than the other two but easy to use, awesome customer service and like I said a fantastic warranty. Wedi is waterproof the whole way through as long as you don't pierce the second cementicious layer. It's also easy to use. Cement board is the cheapest but keep in mind it should be waterproofed with something like RedGard or HydroBan or Ardex 8+9. Plus it's heavy and a pain to adjust. Hope that helps 👍
I think all depends in your skills, tools and budget, great video
Thank you
You should consider for all the time you put into your videos linking the products (not on your site) to your Amazon store. It would make it nice for us and you'd get a kick back from Amazon. Win win! Thanks guys!
Thanks, we’ve done that in some videos. We should do that more. Appreciate the great feedback 👍
Which type wall is strongest once tiled? I can imagine someone falling heavily against a surround wall. Will any crack or break through?
Thats a valid if not great question!!!
I have used the schluter ditra on a floor, loved it. I think we are going to use the WEDI system on our next project. Appreciate the video
Awesome Ralph, DITRA is one of the best isolation membranes. Super easy to use, very much like wedi. What kind of wedi system are you looking at?
I have tried all 3. I prefer cement board with red guard. red guard is waterproof paint and visually striking so it's impossible to miss a spot. wedi board is almost 4x more expensive than cement board and not as strong. the Wedi joint sealent also sucks. but I would make wedi my 2nd choice. Schluder is the worst of these choices. it's the most expensive, and the unmodified thinset is *not* waterproof, which means the kerdi mesh is going to get wet. if there is any micro tears in the mesh water will get through. also, the mesh is prone to slight folds and bumps which shows up in your tile work on top, and people tend to shave it off, ruining the seal(!) kerdi is also incredibly expensive.
DO NOT PUT ON RED GUARD WITHOUT A HIGH QUALITY MASK. it will kill your brain cells
+Nick Steele totally agree with you on the RedGard. It's potent to say the least 😳
Sorry to say that you will most likely be having trouble getting rid of the constant mold. Any product that is modified contains latex. Latex is organic. Which is a food source for mold. In any shower, unmodified thinset should be the only thinset used.
Thanks for the clear methods and I prefer the "Durock" way because it appears less flexible then the "Wiedy" way and since it will be done over furing strips and brick, as well as a shaft way that is between two vertical areas, that must be plum first. I used a waterproofer and now am a little wiser, since I was't aware that the stainless steel screws should also be covered with that very fine screen like tape, followed by more of the waterproofer. I will need to examine the wall I did five years ago because I'd used plastic butcher block panels instead of Durock in some areas. At that time, I was not able to tear down the whole wall, then plum the large shaft way between the two walls so I built over the existing wall and wound up with an uneven job because the former tenant used wood vertically near the edge on one side of the brick section (an inch and a half made it look like a wave on the right side of the wall). I need to redo that wall.
Have done 2 bathrooms with cement board. Not fun....cracks easily, heavy and messy! Got a bathtub to do soon, Kerdi board is my choice.
+Mary M you'll love it, not cheap but worth the money. Their technical support is the best. I totally understand the appeal of cement board's cost but that's about all it has going for it
Jeff Patterson I sent the video to my friend I work with. His house, he buys the materials...he might go for it. He gets the area ready and I tile it. The shower we have going now has been difficult, still not ready for me to tile.
plywood
Rick Fountain You are so right. I have done various things on 6 flip houses, it was the hardest thing I have done so far. I did enjoy it, though. We are almost finished with the current house...except for bathrooms...lol
I'm remodeling our bathroom in a few weeks or less ( wife will tell) and it is very helpful to see all this little details. I like the idea of using the lighter materials. I'm definitely look into it.
+Edgar Rousselin I'd be happy to answer any questions about materials, there are a lot of new options
Thank you. I'll do my research and ask the questions If I still have any.
The 3rd method I think is great, but I like the first one too... The second method looks a little messy..... ( Steve should use some gloves or mask, safety first! ) Another great video. !!!
+Guillermo Marin thanks, we're working on Steve's safety kit, lol
Amazing , I am about to remodel 2 of my showers and I like the the three ways to do it
These take a little time to properly assemble and th-cam.com/users/postUgkxd5EBUeJB1fVVN1ZqLyQDXE7lWSDxtioi after installation , but the end result is fantastic. Very pleased.
great video. i have used Hardie backer for a shower i the UK. very strong. i am building another shower with the same. interesting that Hardie's own video does not mention liquid waterproofing. their advice seems to be to tile straight onto the substrate. have i missed something? (i have had no problems with my shower after a year- tiled straight onto the board.)
the first thing I always do is protect the tub!!!
yes, good idea.
I would go with the Kerdi Board. Great Video
+Sonny Tran thank you, are you remodeling a bathroom soon?
Smart!
Standing in a new tub without protecting the tube itself... not good...
The walls next to my shower were Sheetrock. They rotted. I don’t want to mess with my shower but I need to waterproof the walls. I removed the sheet rock board behind the shower tile. Can I slide the Kerdi or Wedi board behind the tile of the shower where I removed the sheet rock? How would I join edge of tiled shower with the side and bottom of floor? Can I paint it or do I tile the whole wall? The floor is Mexican tiles and the shower is white tiles.
Thank you for your awesome video and your help and support ❤ MaryAnne
Method 2 or 3: doing my first install... should be interesting
awesome, let us know if you have any questions
how did it turn out Terry
You never stated the pros and cons for each method. And I would be very interested to hear them. I am about to re-do my bathroom over. Definetly looking for the best method!💯
Waterproof your shower? That is one of the places that I actually want water.
Bahahaha
I also use my shower to wet itself and not my body.
Great job thanks Steve , what is your recommendation for remodelling 50 years bathtub ?
Regards
Michael Murad
Steve!! Put on your safety goggles.
Helpful video, can you show how to build walk in showers? Same like this, 3 methods done professionally.
THE ONE AND ONLY WAY - THE BEST WAY HANDS DOWN - MUST READ ->>>
Had a leaky shower. Hired contractor, used cement board and the black painted on membrane stuff. lasted for 6 months then leaked. Contractor came back and said this is this is way it is supposed to be done, sorry it leaked so what do you want me to do? I said rip it all out, re-line it with cement board and then lets fiberglass it like a boat.
So that is what he did. We just bought regular fiberglass resin and mat. Applied the fiberglass resin to cement board then the mat and then more resin just like a boat, did 3 layers and ended up about 1/4 to 3/8 thick. Did this on floor and 95% up walls. After it set up and cured we mudded it and tiled it.
Done deal and that was in 1998. Sold that house 4 yrs later and still know one of the neighbors. He says the shower stall is still exactly as we did it with the same tile and there has been no leaks for 19 yrs now.
This is now my "GO TO" method for shower stalls. Since then I have talked other people into doing it exactly that way and it has never failed yet.
I know where there are plenty of old fiberglass boats, some over 40 yrs old and they all still float and if let set with the drain plug in, will fill with water. Fiberglass on a shower stall like this is pretty well permanent and if done right will last as long as the house and simply NEVER leak.
After explaining this to friends, they decided to do it the exact same way. It is dead simple to do also. Any fool can mix resin, roll it on, stick some fiberglass mat to it and roll on more resin to seal up the mat, then do same again total of 3 times and end up with 1/4 to 3/8 fiberglass thickness and a total permanent seal. Nice thing is, it leaves a nice rough irregular surface the mud sticks to extremely well so you can then stick on the tiles.
Once you do a shower stall like this, you will see it makes so much sense and is so easy to do, you will never ever even consider doing it any other way ever again. My contractor was blown away and has done many this exact way. He sells them as "forever showers" guaranteed to NEVER EVER leak and none ever have.
Fiberglass your shower stalls and stop worrying, it will never ever leak and will outlast you.
As long as you do a pre slope for the mud pan. Have many builders that do this method and don't preslope the floor. It's no code. And I won't tile it.
@renaissancemen1
Just curious, how would you know if the pan was pre-sloped or not ? You pre-slope first, then you install liner, then you mud and slope again to 1/4" per foot to drain area, right? So how would you know by the time you came to do the tile work ?? One TH-camr says no need to pre-slope and is an expert at re-doing other failed Tile installs and then some swear up and down to pre-slope or DIE !! Which one guarantees less time & money and still done 100% correct waterproof ?
I don't believe a word you typed. You are a daydreamer and a spoofer. For others reading this, using resin and fiberglass would result in a very wavy wall for tile to lay flat on, unless you were an expert boat builder. Portland cement will not bind to resins. So tile mortared to resin would simply fall off. This guy reminds me of Ralphie from A Christmas Story.
Ridiculous. It may be possible, but simply not worth it.
Far better to just use paints made specifically for this application. They tend to not only waterproof the cement boards, but can also help the cement/mortar with adhesion and prevent small cracks due to their flexibility.
They make fiberglass shower walls; better to just go with those if you want to skip tile altogether.
If your shower leaked, there was something wrong with how it was installed.
Also, in most cases, a leak is not something that shows up easily, and can be missed for many years. yet somehow you found one, but shared nothing about where it was, etc.?
Your suggestion carries with it far more problems than most realize.
I''m inclined to believe the other poster. None of what you said is believable when all context is taken in.
I have demolished a few bathrooms and while they appeared to be fine and had no evidence of any leaks, some of them had clear water damage underneath. The bathroom in my current house had so much damage that a big section of wood flooring had to be replaced and some studs along the walls as well.
Far too many contractors don't do quality work, will miss details, and even cut corners in materials used and time spent. There is absolutely no one way or best way. The right way is someone that knows what they are doing and cares about doing it well.
Robert B
I will be using the ciment board! Thank you for your vidéos!
+Chantal Rochon glad to help, we recommend using membranes like Ardex 8+9 over cement board for maximum waterproofing
Its not just waterproofing, DON'T FEED Mold!!! Nothing modified in a shower!
Or termites!
Nothing modifed in shower lmfaoooo, what? It uses air to cure and is most likely fiber reinforced, you have not a clue what you are talking about.
Looking for a similar video on shower floors. I saw the concrete one, but a number of manufacturers have pre-made options, usually foam.
+David Ligon we have a good video on the Wedi shower pan, it's an option th-cam.com/video/3Eu_CD6YPfg/w-d-xo.html
You don't put up plastic behind cement board and then waterproof the front. It's one or the other
Correct. There is no issue with cement board getting water! It is the framing that is being protected. So using a vapor/moisture barrier infront of the framing is all that is needed.
We always waterproof our cement board with Redgurd. Most cement board is not waterproof material so for us we use Regard to guarantee a good waterproof seal. Plastic being placed behind the cement board allows water to penetrate the cement board so that method is not something we would do.
The cement board is designed to get wet and then drain. The plastic behind is all that is required. If you have presloped your pan correctly then it will all drain. If done correctly then this method will last thirty years. I have done close to 500 showers and this is the proper method.
Hi love your videos! Question: using wedi for walls I have to apply waterproof sealer ? And how many coats ? Thank you
For what the Kerdi and Wedi board cost, I'll stick with the old fashioned cement board thanks. I'm not going to spend 1000's of dollars to remodel my shower on just all the backing structure. That's crazy. After you get all your tiles, grout, doors, fixtures. etc. your shower would land up costing you $10K
Wedi and Kerdi Board are pricier that cement board but a standard shower shouldn’t cost anywhere near that. Wedi tub kits cost $522 max, a good tub is $800 or less, tile is up to you, grout is maybe $80-$100 if it’s pre-mixed, and a glass door is $1200 on up. And those prices are for a darn nice shower. Plus you get a 10-year warranty on the backer board.
I want to know where you live because I looked up the Wedi kits at my local box stores. For a shower that is 36X60, which is a nice shower size, the kit here is $1400 bucks! I'm not referring to the tub/shower kit, those are cheaper but not what I'm looking to do. I want to rehab my walk in shower. I want to go larger and do all tile instead of the fiberglass insert. For what I want to do, the price of the Wedi kit isn't economical for me. I will do it the old fashioned way with cement board and mortar.
In that case you’re right - look into the KBRS ShowerSlope Kit which is cheaper but still customizable. And cement board can be used
www.homerepairtutor.com/kbrs-showerslope/
Great video! Do you need to seal with caulk first in the corner wall/wall and wall/floor joints, and then apply as you have shown or not worry about caulking?
No protection over the tub?!?! Unprofessional! All that cement board debris scratches the hell out of the tub finish!! Shame shame
Im about to do 2 bathroom remodels. Im leaning towards the kerdi system. The waterproofing of the cement backerboard is the expensive part in my area. The red stuff cost $100.
Great video! Great to see people who know what they are doing!
+Franklin Anderson thank you, they are a lot of options but we wanted to talk about three just to keep it simple
getting ready to attempt my first tub surround. I was planning on using Crete board but never knew about the sealer until I started looking on you tube. I had the understanding that you just seal all the joints with thin set. is the sealer necessary.
Good video. I like all three methods. But since you said pick one it would be backer board. That's only because the other two didn't seem as rigid as backer board. I have never seen or even knew about the other two products. The ease of cutting them and carrying them is a plus, tho.
+Lisa Libeer yes, foam boards are way easier to work with than cement board...although pricier. That said, cement board has its place. You just need to waterproof it with a liquid or sheet membrane.
Very nicely done demonstrations. I'm 61 , disabled , and retired. Too cheap to pay a contractor. I think I'll try one of the lightweight systems you showed. Have osteoarthritis everywhere. Savings will go to a vacation in the south seas. How do you get a lazy son and his girlfriend to help ? Thank you and good luck.
all 3 thre are good methods thank you i used hardie cement board and re guard
cerdi and wedi im intrested in both i just bought an older acerage home and have to redo the whole bathroom, i have never done a bathroom renovation.
Nice tutorial... I haven`t found any plastic vapour barrier while removing old shower screen panels for renovation. After your video I`m thinking about it... You have placed a plastic film under cement board. Is that recommended for all the bathroom walls around or for shower cavity only, please? What sort of plastic do you use. Shouls it be something special (probably perforated) or any plastic would be OK?
Nice....always great to watch a pro.
Thank you
Man this was great. I didn't know about Kerdi board or the other. I love hearing about new, better technology.
+JustOchi there are new boards every year 👍
Great video production. I would use the Kerdi method. I like the taped seams and ease of cutting. I am finishing my attic space and this may be a great method for me. Thanks a lot!!
Thanks, are you putting a bathroom up in the attic?
Yes, I have a large attic space. Finishing 1150 square feet. Thankfully the previous owner had the builder run dry plumbing and drain lines to the second floor. Love your videos. Very helpful and they do not waste a lot of time. Great production.
Do you have an opinion on tiling the ceiling of a shower? If so, should the same backer be used as the rest of the shower? (cement board/kerdi/etc.) Thanks!
I like the WEDI type of board for the shower installation. Thanks for the tip.
thanks for watching, Wedi’s a great option
@Bob Hoffman if it's acrylic or fiberglass, probably not. But check the manufacturer's recommendations - not a bad idea to use insulation in the walls, we like Rockwool