I was really surprised that you didn't cover hyper local open source conversions. Not only would they save a huge amount of resources by reusing the frames that we already have in existence in every small town, but it would increase repairability and help build the skills to repair these vehicles that we need across the country, not just in manufacturing centers.
And those shops are not putting in new crap to track everything. I bet they also take out the existing privacy invading crap. That's what I want to do.
@@transportevolvedcan't wait. Hope you can call out some shops, training facilities, etc... Hope that video adds some flywheel effect to that space. I want to be their customer.
And yet, there are many programs at community colleges around the world where people get to learn new skills - including automotive technician programs - regardless of age, background, or sex.
Great insight! However, I don't think EVs are more complicated to manufacture than ICE cars. Yes, you have to set up battery pack and electric motor manufacturing but I think that manufacture of IC engines and transmissions is much more complicated. In addition, electric motors and battery packs are easily outsourced to distributed production. It's much easier to manufacture an electric motor than an IC engine or transmission with thousands of precision parts. Check out Edison motors and Deboss garage for people doing small scale distributed EV manufacture. In addition San Francisco based Telo is looking to manufacture a small truck.
The EU has high tariffs against China, but the current US tariffs are something like double that. It’s already frustrating to see that, while European brands are selling new EVs in the $25k price range, the cheapest we can hope for in the US is *maybe* something a little under $40k.
Arrival was founded in 2014 by Russian billionaire Denis Sverdlov. The company planned to use small, "micro-factories" to build electric vans, buses, and taxis. In 2021, Arrival was valued at $15 billion and listed on the Nasdaq, making it the biggest initial stock market listing for a UK tech company at the time, today it's out of business.
Thanks, Agree the sentiment. The main issue is beneath the skin EVs are very different from ICEVs. It is no surprise manufacturers that have had most success in this sector are relative newcomers, unencumbered by having to leverage legacy production processes.
EV's are super simple to manufacture. There are no conplex combustion engines or complicated transmissions and all their accompanying parts and mechanisms required for them to work at all. And EV, in it's most basic form, is just a battery and a simple motor. An ICE vehicle has around 30,000 parts, while an EV has less than 2,000.
I know that's the party line, but as someone who actually repairs EVs, I can assure you that in today's repair environment with married-for-life subassemblies and impractical knowledgebase subscription models from manufacturers, EVs to-date are not easier to repair than ICEVs, regardless of perceived lesser part count.
@alsavage1 No one is saying they're easier to repair or that manufacturers are making it easy right now. No new tech ever is. Including the automobile itself back during it's very biginnings. That'll come in time. The point is that EV's are much cheaper to manufacture vs ICE once economies of scales are reached. In the 90's, a picture tube 32" TV with 480 lines of resolution cost around $700. In the year 2000, a 50" flat panel TV with 720p resolution cost $25,000. Ten years later, a 50" LCD TV cost less $1,000 and was 1080p. They're now under $200 for a 50" TV and it's now 4k. So how can a product so vastly superior cost so much less than the same inferior product even after over 25 years of inflation? It's because the new product is so much cheaper to manufacture once economies of scales were reached. In contrast, a 32" picture tube TV would cost close to $1,000 to manufacture today because their components are now so much more expensive. It's the same with EV's vs ICE.
@@junehanzawa5165 Sigh. In the '90s I repaired CRTs (monitors and terminals) for a living, 8 hours/day, so I'm kind of an expert here (given that there's _always_ someone smarter than you on the internet). Your examples of CRT tech vs flat panel tech does not support your conviction that EVs are simpler than ICEVs and therefore ARE simpler to manufacture. Flat panel displays are a about as complex as good CRTs were back in they day -- not more complex. They're a lot more compact, of course. I remember when mfgring flat panels was still done by rubbing velvet on the substrate or whatever, a crude-but-effective and cost-efficient way of mfgring, but it grew up. You've said "vastly superior flat panels are cheaper than the old CRTS" (I paraphrase) and, sure, they are. But that's purely technology moving forward, not any inherent game-changing breakthrough. I could just a well say that about portable telephony (mobile phones), and no parts count difference is involved. I agree that EVs are simpler to assemble, but not to manufacture: those subassemblies are (mostly) made by subcontractors, to spec., and they're not making them using ICEV tech. Scale is great for reducing costs, sure. But there is a lot invested in the ICEV mfging system, and while on paper fewer parts equals cost savings, RIGHT NOW it's not cheaper to assemble an EV than an ICEV, and the parts -- chiefly the HV battery -- is a large cost component. Until that changes, most mfgrs are mainly investing in EVs as a compliance measure, not as a profit center.
@@alsavage1 The most valuable car company in the world makes some of the best margins in the business making electric vehicles only. And the fastest growing automobile company in the world, which could soon become the largest, is also now making a nice profit on them. Do you really think the other major auto manufacturers in the world don't see and know that? "If they can do it, why can't we? Because if not, we're going to fail." Batteries have dropped 90% in cost since 2010. And they're still falling, and will continue to fall, in price as more and more mines and battery mega factories come online. In the early 1900's, an automobile cost more than $100,000 in today's money and their manufaturers were all losing money. Everything was stacked against them (they were very costly to manufacture, no paved roads, no gas stations, no repair shops or mechanics, etc.). While there were dozens and dozens of horse carriage manufacturers (some very large) throughout the world which were all making very nice profits. Yet, all those that listened to the anti-automobile FUD all went under within 2 decades. While the ones who saw the transformation and switched is time, became the GM's of the world, and joined the brand new prospering automobile companies like Ford and Mercedes Benz.
@alsavage1 The most valuable car company in the world makes some of the best margins in the business making electric vehicles only. And the fastest growing automobile company in the world, which could soon become the largest, is also now making a nice profit on them. Do you really think the other major auto manufacturers in the world don't see and know that? "If they can do it, why can't we? Because if not, we're going to fail." Batteries have dropped 90% in cost since 2010. And they're still falling, and will continue to fall, in price as more and more mines and battery mega factories come online. In the early 1900's, an automobile cost more than $100,000 in today's money and their manufaturers were all losing money. Everything was stacked against them (they were very costly to manufacture, no paved roads, no gas stations, no repair shops or mechanics, etc.). While there were dozens and dozens of horse carriage manufacturers (some very large) throughout the world which were all making very nice profits. Yet, all those that listened to the anti-automobile FUD all went under within 2 decades. While the ones who saw the transformation and switched is time, became the GM's of the world, and joined the brand new prospering automobile companies like Ford and Mercedes Benz.
Not only does the local consumer pay the tarrif, lets discuss where that money goes; it goes to the government imposing the tarrif. So as the US taxes, i mean, tarrifs, everything from China by at least 10% and Canada and Mexico by at least 20%, Americans pay that hidden tax, the Federal government pockets it with one hand and issues the rich tax breaks with the other hand... All while not incentivizing any development worth doing... The only question is will this policy last 4 years, or forever? Cant recall any kings in history reducing tax for the "mob". Or stepping down.. When the billionaires started buying all the land, i really had no idea that it was because they were planning for the US to have a king and lords of the land... I have to rewatch my dystopian sci-fi... Do any tell the story of how the corps and rich ultimately become the government? Does it start with the billionaires being lords of the land and companies being corporate land lords? If so... 😫
big problem is finding worker who can do the job. sure some can be trained but talking about 6 months to 9 months before there trainees are worth their paychecks
So you should operate your business in a way that you try to keep your employees happy, so they stay onboard for years and lower turnover costs. We had lost an aspect of our culture where we are expected to work at the same company until retirement. So it causes business to handle all employees as temporary, and all employees treat their employer as a an unpredictable source of income. Which creates a catch 22 condition. Who started it I don't know and we really shouldn't care, but the companies have the money and power to work on changing that.
I think a good part of the fault also lies in them chasing many high-profile vanity projects, such as a full-size passenger bus, full end-to-end automation, and several others rather than focus on delivering cargo vans for the orders they had in-hand. You have only so much capital, resources and time. They spread themselves very thin to keep ginning up the PR and didn’t deliver existing orders on time, leading to many of them getting canceled, further eroding their financials. To be fair, they’re not the only start-up to follow that path, but you’d think they’d learn from the many examples of failure, and I say this as someone who invested in them.
Yep, pick one, "Cheap affordable small EVs" or "Manufactured in the US EVs" working "smarter" won't get you both. Since labor and environmental costs are much higher in the US than in Mexico, it will always be more expensive to build in the US and any "smart" manufacturing innovations can be applied to foreign factories to lower costs there too.
@@BubbaBearsFriendSo build them in Mexico where we have a trade agreement with. With that said, EV's are super simple to manufacture. There are no conplex combustion engines or complicated transmissions and all their accompanying parts and mechanisms required for them to work at all. And EV, in it's most basic form, is just a battery and a simple motor. An ICE vehicle has around 30,000 parts, while an EV has less than 2,000. Just like flat panel televisions are multitudes cheaper to manufacture with no need for a finicky and massive picture tube and all it's requirements, so are EV's so much cheaper to manufacture at scale. A 32" picture tube TV cost $700 a quarter century ago with only 480 lines of resolutions. Whereas a 50" flat panel TV with multitudes higher resolution of 4K, costs less than $200 today, even after a quarter century of inflation. Why? Because they're so much cheaper to manufacture. So yes, as long as you keep job busting union leaders out of there, they'll be cheap to build in America. Especially with more and more automation cutting out humans that can fall for union leader tricks.
16:43 what? Tesla is the LEAST guilty manufacturer of doing this, why would you call them out? They have the highest content of US *MADE* (not assembled) components of any manufacturer.
Legally, the importer is responsible for paying the tariff to U.S. Customs and Border Protection. This is a direct cost incurred by the importing company, Importers, like any business, aim to make a profit. They will typically *try to pass the cost* of the tariff on to their customers, notice the word TRY, if the price is too high the end users will never buy the product, so the importer pays the tariff and the companies that retail the product will look for cheaper domestic sources, this will spur investment for a local producer.
Unfortunately, as costs for tariffed items go up, history shows that domestic producers (where they exist at all and/or are capable of quickly ramping up production) cannot resist the temptation to boost their own profit margins and also raise their prices in lockstep, so the consumer ends up footing higher prices regardless. So tariffs are inflationary at best, even when they don't also result in quite as big an increase in government tax receipts. We've seen this play out multiple times before.
This video preaches socialism. This video is an OP-ED (opinion editorial) on socialism. YT has videos explaining what socialism is. Remember, TE is ant-capitalist. Three countries that practiced socialism are USSR (now defunct), Cuba, and Maoist China. For a lay person, a communist state is a socialist state run by one party. Everyone should read up or understand what socialism is. Like I said before, there are videos in the YT domain that explains it better. This video is a prime example of socialism. When talking about LOCAL manufacturing options, we are talking about modern day COLLECTIVES. Instead of farming, we are applying it to manufacturing. Make no mistake about it. It would be appropo to say well done, Comrade Nikki for describing a COLLECTIVE. Here’s definition of Socialism (New Oxford American Dictionary): a political and economic theory of social organization which advocates that the means of production, distribution, and exchange should be owned or regulated by the community as a whole: "we want a real democratic and pluralist left party-one which unites all those who believe in socialism" ▪ policy or practice based on the political and economic theory of socialism: "the debate over whether to move away from free markets and toward socialism" ▪ (in Marxist theory) a transitional social state between the overthrow of capitalism and the realization of Communism: "socialism is the first stage of the worldwide transition to communism" Here is the Cambridge definition of COLLECTIVE: an organization or business that is owned and controlled by the people who work in it
Socialism hasn’t worked out. We are seeing this play out in Venezuela in the worst way possible. As the only Democratic Socialist country, Venezuela’s economy is tanking.
I was really surprised that you didn't cover hyper local open source conversions. Not only would they save a huge amount of resources by reusing the frames that we already have in existence in every small town, but it would increase repairability and help build the skills to repair these vehicles that we need across the country, not just in manufacturing centers.
Yah that’s a different video (that’s already in planning)
And those shops are not putting in new crap to track everything. I bet they also take out the existing privacy invading crap.
That's what I want to do.
@@transportevolvedcan't wait. Hope you can call out some shops, training facilities, etc... Hope that video adds some flywheel effect to that space.
I want to be their customer.
1980 public school shut down industrial arts classes . Journeymen enlist their sons into apprenticeships . The number of those are small .
And yet, there are many programs at community colleges around the world where people get to learn new skills - including automotive technician programs - regardless of age, background, or sex.
124... Logical and worthwhile thinking about. Going small, or going mega in order to make it small? Keep Evolving!
Check your blood oxygen percentage .
Great insight!
However, I don't think EVs are more complicated to manufacture than ICE cars. Yes, you have to set up battery pack and electric motor manufacturing but I think that manufacture of IC engines and transmissions is much more complicated. In addition, electric motors and battery packs are easily outsourced to distributed production. It's much easier to manufacture an electric motor than an IC engine or transmission with thousands of precision parts.
Check out Edison motors and Deboss garage for people doing small scale distributed EV manufacture. In addition San Francisco based Telo is looking to manufacture a small truck.
Thanks
The EU has high tariffs against China, but the current US tariffs are something like double that. It’s already frustrating to see that, while European brands are selling new EVs in the $25k price range, the cheapest we can hope for in the US is *maybe* something a little under $40k.
Arrival was founded in 2014 by Russian billionaire Denis Sverdlov. The company planned to use small, "micro-factories" to build electric vans, buses, and taxis. In 2021, Arrival was valued at $15 billion and listed on the Nasdaq, making it the biggest initial stock market listing for a UK tech company at the time, today it's out of business.
Thanks, Agree the sentiment. The main issue is beneath the skin EVs are very different from ICEVs. It is no surprise manufacturers that have had most success in this sector are relative newcomers, unencumbered by having to leverage legacy production processes.
Funding for local R&D and export programs are also necessary, to make the local industry sustainable, especially if parent companies become involved.
2:47 nice
RTO threats aren't particularly veiled; thinly or otherwise. 😕
EV's are super simple to manufacture. There are no conplex combustion engines or complicated transmissions and all their accompanying parts and mechanisms required for them to work at all. And EV, in it's most basic form, is just a battery and a simple motor. An ICE vehicle has around 30,000 parts, while an EV has less than 2,000.
I know that's the party line, but as someone who actually repairs EVs, I can assure you that in today's repair environment with married-for-life subassemblies and impractical knowledgebase subscription models from manufacturers, EVs to-date are not easier to repair than ICEVs, regardless of perceived lesser part count.
@alsavage1 No one is saying they're easier to repair or that manufacturers are making it easy right now. No new tech ever is. Including the automobile itself back during it's very biginnings. That'll come in time. The point is that EV's are much cheaper to manufacture vs ICE once economies of scales are reached.
In the 90's, a picture tube 32" TV with 480 lines of resolution cost around $700. In the year 2000, a 50" flat panel TV with 720p resolution cost $25,000. Ten years later, a 50" LCD TV cost less $1,000 and was 1080p. They're now under $200 for a 50" TV and it's now 4k.
So how can a product so vastly superior cost so much less than the same inferior product even after over 25 years of inflation? It's because the new product is so much cheaper to manufacture once economies of scales were reached.
In contrast, a 32" picture tube TV would cost close to $1,000 to manufacture today because their components are now so much more expensive. It's the same with EV's vs ICE.
@@junehanzawa5165 Sigh. In the '90s I repaired CRTs (monitors and terminals) for a living, 8 hours/day, so I'm kind of an expert here (given that there's _always_ someone smarter than you on the internet). Your examples of CRT tech vs flat panel tech does not support your conviction that EVs are simpler than ICEVs and therefore ARE simpler to manufacture. Flat panel displays are a about as complex as good CRTs were back in they day -- not more complex. They're a lot more compact, of course. I remember when mfgring flat panels was still done by rubbing velvet on the substrate or whatever, a crude-but-effective and cost-efficient way of mfgring, but it grew up. You've said "vastly superior flat panels are cheaper than the old CRTS" (I paraphrase) and, sure, they are. But that's purely technology moving forward, not any inherent game-changing breakthrough. I could just a well say that about portable telephony (mobile phones), and no parts count difference is involved.
I agree that EVs are simpler to assemble, but not to manufacture: those subassemblies are (mostly) made by subcontractors, to spec., and they're not making them using ICEV tech.
Scale is great for reducing costs, sure. But there is a lot invested in the ICEV mfging system, and while on paper fewer parts equals cost savings, RIGHT NOW it's not cheaper to assemble an EV than an ICEV, and the parts -- chiefly the HV battery -- is a large cost component. Until that changes, most mfgrs are mainly investing in EVs as a compliance measure, not as a profit center.
@@alsavage1 The most valuable car company in the world makes some of the best margins in the business making electric vehicles only. And the fastest growing automobile company in the world, which could soon become the largest, is also now making a nice profit on them.
Do you really think the other major auto manufacturers in the world don't see and know that? "If they can do it, why can't we? Because if not, we're going to fail."
Batteries have dropped 90% in cost since 2010. And they're still falling, and will continue to fall, in price as more and more mines and battery mega factories come online.
In the early 1900's, an automobile cost more than $100,000 in today's money and their manufaturers were all losing money. Everything was stacked against them (they were very costly to manufacture, no paved roads, no gas stations, no repair shops or mechanics, etc.). While there were dozens and dozens of horse carriage manufacturers (some very large) throughout the world which were all making very nice profits. Yet, all those that listened to the anti-automobile FUD all went under within 2 decades.
While the ones who saw the transformation and switched is time, became the GM's of the world, and joined the brand new prospering automobile companies like Ford and Mercedes Benz.
@alsavage1 The most valuable car company in the world makes some of the best margins in the business making electric vehicles only. And the fastest growing automobile company in the world, which could soon become the largest, is also now making a nice profit on them.
Do you really think the other major auto manufacturers in the world don't see and know that? "If they can do it, why can't we? Because if not, we're going to fail."
Batteries have dropped 90% in cost since 2010. And they're still falling, and will continue to fall, in price as more and more mines and battery mega factories come online.
In the early 1900's, an automobile cost more than $100,000 in today's money and their manufaturers were all losing money. Everything was stacked against them (they were very costly to manufacture, no paved roads, no gas stations, no repair shops or mechanics, etc.). While there were dozens and dozens of horse carriage manufacturers (some very large) throughout the world which were all making very nice profits. Yet, all those that listened to the anti-automobile FUD all went under within 2 decades.
While the ones who saw the transformation and switched is time, became the GM's of the world, and joined the brand new prospering automobile companies like Ford and Mercedes Benz.
Not only does the local consumer pay the tarrif, lets discuss where that money goes; it goes to the government imposing the tarrif.
So as the US taxes, i mean, tarrifs, everything from China by at least 10% and Canada and Mexico by at least 20%, Americans pay that hidden tax, the Federal government pockets it with one hand and issues the rich tax breaks with the other hand... All while not incentivizing any development worth doing... The only question is will this policy last 4 years, or forever? Cant recall any kings in history reducing tax for the "mob". Or stepping down..
When the billionaires started buying all the land, i really had no idea that it was because they were planning for the US to have a king and lords of the land...
I have to rewatch my dystopian sci-fi... Do any tell the story of how the corps and rich ultimately become the government? Does it start with the billionaires being lords of the land and companies being corporate land lords? If so... 😫
TRUMP did not start this. The other party did.
Those people across the Pacific on big land area want to rule the world. It seems you are blind to that fact.
Isn't that the case in the Aliens movie series?
@@ziploc2000 Tribalism , rule the Universe .
Alien Tribalism to colonize the Universe . The Aliens have competition .
big problem is finding worker who can do the job. sure some can be trained but talking about 6 months to 9 months before there trainees are worth their paychecks
So you should operate your business in a way that you try to keep your employees happy, so they stay onboard for years and lower turnover costs. We had lost an aspect of our culture where we are expected to work at the same company until retirement. So it causes business to handle all employees as temporary, and all employees treat their employer as a an unpredictable source of income. Which creates a catch 22 condition. Who started it I don't know and we really shouldn't care, but the companies have the money and power to work on changing that.
100% NON union workers needed.
IF you are UAW youre FIRED.
Sadly, Arrival and its microfactory model failed 😕
I think a good part of the fault also lies in them chasing many high-profile vanity projects, such as a full-size passenger bus, full end-to-end automation, and several others rather than focus on delivering cargo vans for the orders they had in-hand.
You have only so much capital, resources and time. They spread themselves very thin to keep ginning up the PR and didn’t deliver existing orders on time, leading to many of them getting canceled, further eroding their financials.
To be fair, they’re not the only start-up to follow that path, but you’d think they’d learn from the many examples of failure, and I say this as someone who invested in them.
41%
Algorithm
Even if this was possible, Prices on EV's would still be cost prohibitive.
Yep, pick one, "Cheap affordable small EVs" or "Manufactured in the US EVs" working "smarter" won't get you both. Since labor and environmental costs are much higher in the US than in Mexico, it will always be more expensive to build in the US and any "smart" manufacturing innovations can be applied to foreign factories to lower costs there too.
@@BubbaBearsFriendSo build them in Mexico where we have a trade agreement with.
With that said, EV's are super simple to manufacture. There are no conplex combustion engines or complicated transmissions and all their accompanying parts and mechanisms required for them to work at all. And EV, in it's most basic form, is just a battery and a simple motor. An ICE vehicle has around 30,000 parts, while an EV has less than 2,000.
Just like flat panel televisions are multitudes cheaper to manufacture with no need for a finicky and massive picture tube and all it's requirements, so are EV's so much cheaper to manufacture at scale.
A 32" picture tube TV cost $700 a quarter century ago with only 480 lines of resolutions. Whereas a 50" flat panel TV with multitudes higher resolution of 4K, costs less than $200 today, even after a quarter century of inflation. Why? Because they're so much cheaper to manufacture.
So yes, as long as you keep job busting union leaders out of there, they'll be cheap to build in America. Especially with more and more automation cutting out humans that can fall for union leader tricks.
52 comments now, that is sad too.
16:43 what? Tesla is the LEAST guilty manufacturer of doing this, why would you call them out? They have the highest content of US *MADE* (not assembled) components of any manufacturer.
Other countries exist. ;)
Based on ev adoption rate, it does not make financial sense to go all ev. Unlike Tesla, they can't lose money for 10-20 years
39 comments , that is sad.
Legally, the importer is responsible for paying the tariff to U.S. Customs and Border Protection. This is a direct cost incurred by the importing company, Importers, like any business, aim to make a profit. They will typically *try to pass the cost* of the tariff on to their customers, notice the word TRY, if the price is too high the end users will never buy the product, so the importer pays the tariff and the companies that retail the product will look for cheaper domestic sources, this will spur investment for a local producer.
Unfortunately, as costs for tariffed items go up, history shows that domestic producers (where they exist at all and/or are capable of quickly ramping up production) cannot resist the temptation to boost their own profit margins and also raise their prices in lockstep, so the consumer ends up footing higher prices regardless. So tariffs are inflationary at best, even when they don't also result in quite as big an increase in government tax receipts. We've seen this play out multiple times before.
@@kevind4850 So it's just a race to the bottom China wins? let's pack it in now.
@@kevind4850 exactly the imported product costing more gives local producers cover to raise their prices and still "stay competitive".
This video preaches socialism. This video is an OP-ED (opinion editorial) on socialism. YT has videos explaining what socialism is. Remember, TE is ant-capitalist. Three countries that practiced socialism are USSR (now defunct), Cuba, and Maoist China. For a lay person, a communist state is a socialist state run by one party. Everyone should read up or understand what socialism is. Like I said before, there are videos in the YT domain that explains it better. This video is a prime example of socialism. When talking about LOCAL manufacturing options, we are talking about modern day COLLECTIVES. Instead of farming, we are applying it to manufacturing. Make no mistake about it. It would be appropo to say well done, Comrade Nikki for describing a COLLECTIVE.
Here’s definition of Socialism (New Oxford American Dictionary):
a political and economic theory of social organization which advocates that the means of production, distribution, and exchange should be owned or regulated by the community as a whole:
"we want a real democratic and pluralist left party-one which unites all those who believe in socialism"
▪
policy or practice based on the political and economic theory of socialism:
"the debate over whether to move away from free markets and toward socialism"
▪
(in Marxist theory) a transitional social state between the overthrow of capitalism and the realization of Communism:
"socialism is the first stage of the worldwide transition to communism"
Here is the Cambridge definition of COLLECTIVE:
an organization or business that is owned and controlled by the people who work in it
Socialism hasn’t worked out. We are seeing this play out in Venezuela in the worst way possible. As the only Democratic Socialist country, Venezuela’s economy is tanking.
????????????????
When are you going to realize that E.V.s are the past not the future!
Describe the future(s). Don’t say hydrogen because that has been debunked more times than I can count