Thanks Kate. I think I actually followed all of this (fair bit of college-level chem). At least enough to appreciate how much effort you put into to it. Thank you for the (semi) deep dives.
So basically, we shouldn’t hold our breaths for EVs that use solid state battery technology to come out anytime soon and just pick the solution that best fits our needs knowing that something better will be just around the corner. It doesn’t help that the car industry is struggling. Thank you, Kate. :)
@@toyotaprius79 Sodium Ion batteries have way too low energy densities for electric mobility. At least until Sodium-Sulfur batteries go into mass production. But even then, Lithium Ion will be vastly superior in every way for mobility. Sodium Ion will be, however, the go to batteries for stationary storage. In fact, those exist today.
Yes it was a nice reminder even though I never had a C64. I had a ZX80 with 16K of added RAM and a tricky EPROM upgrade than made it work like a ZX80 or a ZX81 at the flick of a switch. It was a day where computers were fun rather than too often annoying.
I like the shirt. I wanted a Commodore 64 but was grateful for the Vic-20 my parents got me. It let me do my JH and HS computer homework and have a little fun on the side.
Thankyou, that was a very good and comprehensive explanation of a complex problem. My own degree is in Physics, with Computer Science and Mathematics, so I was certainly able to follow your explanation. As I am 'financially challenged' at present, an EV is a little beyond my purchasing power, but the scientist (and Technologist -- I am also Technology Teacher) in me hates the inefficiency of an ICE vehicle. My Renault Clio is just going to have to survive a little longer yet! Here's to a successful 2025 for all of us, probably despite certain US/World circumstances, to which even the UK isn't immune. Happy Christmas to you, Nikki and your wonderful team.
To my knowledge, the automotive industry has NEVER had this much widespread vaporware hype about anything before, so the accusation about Solid State represents FUD or even the Osborne effect is valid. The automotive industry is a design, marketing, and engineering industry. You may have some R&D trying some new things like variable compression, rotary or magnetically actuated valves, or Metal Matrix Composite, but none of that involved years of iterative chemical experimentation that risks breaking one feature as you gain another. If Solid State trades longevity for performance we might still get it, but it'd be a strike against sustainability (maybe). Would sustainability be the measure of success? Almost definitely not. The auto industry has the opposite incentive. They need to sell you a thing that doesn't last longer, and they do that by leasing you a car and telling you longevity is the 3rd owner's problem. Maybe, developing a universal cell/module design and selling you a car but giving you the option to buy the battery separately, could allow for discerning customers to buy the sustainable battery, consumerism and race to the bottom would undoubtedly concentrate sales around the best value or performance, with sustainability losing once again. Face it. Cars are killing us, and we need to move past them. No, FSD isn't comparable. That's just a lie that people won't let go of. Most of the auto industry is NOT promising massive gains in autonomy soon. Most of the auto industry is not run by a lunatic child. We're already overbuilding range with the tech we're building today. 400-500 miles range is not an EV driver's experiencial demand. It's a marketing/design brief target based on surveying ICE owners.
25:12 I need a battery! 🎵💥 I'm holding out for one with solid electrolytes It's gotta stay cool, and it's gotta be fast, and it's gotta form no dendrites!
I'm from canada and dont want to be forced to use solid state batteries, so I'm inventing the world's first solid province battery and it will cost 30% less.
Kate- thank you. I actually followed most of that. A lot of background research went into that. It almost sounds like the promise of nuclear fusion power. Any time now. I am still hopeful for QS. I also think that the Radio Shack Color Computer was one of the overlooked wonders of its age. Again, thanks for the tour de force summary.
Thanks Kate for explaining to an idiot that all this is indeed beyond my comprehension but still entertaining me and giving me enough to look and sound scientific to my mates in the pub.
Love the Shirt, I loved my Commodore 64 and 128. Wow, great video. Lots of facts and science. I know most people's eyes would glaze over, but personally I love to know how and why things works as well as how manufacturering and mass production fit in. Sadly, 80 percent of people (or more) are more concerned about whom is in a Masked Singer costume.
2:46 this is a chalice. a grail is tray or bowl grail (n.) c. 1300, gral, "large shallow dish, basin," from Medieval Latin gradalis, also gradale, grasale, "a flat dish or shallow vessel." The original form is uncertain; the word is perhaps ultimately from Latin crater "bowl," which is from Greek krater "bowl, especially for mixing wine with water" (see crater (n.)).
More Kate explainers please. BTW: Kate if you want to mess up the world, you had better get a move on. Us rich straight white guys have a big head start on you.
"Grok" I haven't heard that in a long time. From "Stranger in a Strange Land" that I read frying back from Europe in 1970. What a very effective communication of the current state in Solid State research.
Current battery tech is excellent. Solid state will have several stages to go through, refinement, Mass production, price reduction, not worth holding out for Has come a long way since an nicad then NIMH & early li-ion
thanks for all the research! I had found the use of "solid state" as a buzz term for new battery tech to be mildly annoying. But honestly, it fits pretty well. Granted, current battery tech doesn't use vacuum and heated filaments... But the analogy holds up :)
Thank you Kate for another great video! That's why I like TE so much. It's not just one car review after another quickly filmed on a cell phone. Thank you to the whole TE team!
It's always fun to watch for the retrocomputing references with Kate. I'd forgotten about 'Halt and Catch fire' :-) (turns out it became a TV series too in the 2010s)
Kate and Nikki have dropped crumbs about their musical talent. I say break out the skills! You have peaked our curiosity. Kate and Nikki can play while the electric bass power is received from the F150 Lightning.
My feeling is that higher power density batteries not really needed for domestic cars ( although they would be nice to have ) but in things like long distance trucking where the battery mass eats into load capacity, short range shipping and short haul flights. Some of those might pay a premium for a high density reliable battery able to operate in a high temperature range.
Don't build renewables, wait for fusion energy. Don't buy EV, wait for solid state batteries. /s BTW, you didn't address the cost of this stuff. We literally cannot afford price increases on batteries. LFP is becoming the benchmark.
Hi Kate, greetings from the U.K. I think the solid state battery question seems to consist of vapour ware. Particularly Toyota who seems to witter on about these being imminent every 18 months or so with not even a prototype to back it up. Battery technology will continue to improve, and there may be a wonder technology at some point. Where we stand now, I would be choosing a BEV with LFP cells. My BMW i3 BEV is 6 years old and has NMC cells, everything is just fine so far. I know you had a troublesome i3 a few years back, but (touch wood) mine has been just fine.
Forgive my lack of in-depth understanding, but what about a gel or glue as the connector between electrolyte and electrode, akin to a rubber expansion joint in a road?
@@TobyDog the idea in a battery is to keep electrons flowing with minimum resistance if you stick a gel in between the layers you risk slowing the electrons, if you make it conductive, you have just created a liquid ( well gel ) electrolyte, the thing you are trying to replace .
@francesconicoletti2547 - it would need to be conductive, of course. No longer a liquid, though, and if it is just a film it could expand and contract and absorb the expansions and contractions of the other materials.
Thanks, Kate. I would also like to add that the EV platforms that actually benefit from solid-state batteries are very limited. Liquid-electrolyte batteries have advanced to the point that smaller, light-duty passenger vehicles see very little benefit outside of ranges that exceed realistic use cases. It's really only fullsize trucks, commercial/industrial vehicles, and aircraft that will benefit from the reduced mass and increased energy density.
I am hoping the solid state batteries will allow me to upgrade my leaf to 40kWh from 24kWh with the same weight. The poor cooling performance may be a problem though.
Enjoyed the video - thanks for doing the heavy lifting to produce it. I haven't seen you in a video for a while - I always enjoy your presentations, especially the seasoning of side jokes.
Aptera is i think the key player in creating a "battery agnostic" future as the possibilities with both a solar powered and removable battery will effectively end the need for all of this "megapack" and further commoditize the pure play BEV architecture. Already a lease payment of *ZERO* for the Fiat 500e in Colorado is the report. Actual prices are starting to come down and that would be for everything the vehicle, the battery, the cost of charging everything. The capabilities of these pure play BEV which includes flying cars now is truly incredible now as well. Tesla pushing into Texas is an absolute game changer for the Industry opening up an entirely new domestic USA market that will include everything labeled above: the vehicle, the battery, the charging infrastructure, solar...everything...presumably with that the battery powered flying car as well. #nio_motors has lead the way in battery swap i look for that to continue 😊😊
An excellent, information dense episode! That's a lot of work. Thank you very much. Also, your green dangles, batteries I assume, were a bit distracting. Additionally, I really don't understand the value of the "turn to the other camera" aside style that you and Nikki employ. Not seeing the benefit there and with your general speaking style of frequently looking off to the side, I am always thinking there a camera switch coming.
Solid state is in a solid state for the past and into the foreseeable future. In the meantime many companies will make money out of vaporware especially the quantum turbo guy.
The last time I wrote about Mercedes-Benz buses they were having a failure or should I be more correct damage rate of 75% after taking a bus around a very controlled way of their test/race track which was very smooth a flat for only a few laps (3 to 7 laps going via memory) But the real killer with their solid-state batteries it took hours upon hours to charge. I am not sure if they cut back the program after going public about it highlighting all the issues they were having but I hope they moved on and developed a lot more since 4 years ago!
indeed, from consumers' perspective, solid state batteries are kind of irrelevant. They are mostly relevant as PR BS for automakers like Toyota, to keep pushing further in the future making EVs. Between silicon anodes allowing 500Wh/kg and batteries that can charge at 5C already commercially available, eliminating both range anxiety and charging times, the tipping point is already almost here. They need just to become ubiquitously adopted. Anyway, Mercedes and Factorial claim they are testing solid state batteries as of now
Cousin Wiki sez Bollaré and Pininfarina built hundreds of ssb-powered subcompacts twenty years ago for fleet rentals and leases in a few French cities and Singapore. Only two caught fire so far. Later they started selling'em for 20k€.
Nice cap earrings! Funny note, my internet was being stupid and wouldn't load the hi rez video for the first few seconds of watching this video. I was starting to think you were pulling a low rez stunt to pay homage to your commodore 64 shirt😅 Watching this video felt a bit like the "you get to drink from the firehose!" scene from UHF.
There is some research going into working around ceramics' brittleness by designing batteries that operate at 300-550C where ceramics get softer. Lots of crazy stuff going on.
@@quartzofcourse Little to none by using thermos-style vacuum isolation. The paper I remember reading said internal losses should be enough under typical use. This is similar to molten salt batteries for grid-scale storage.
I think those are best suited for static applications, of which there are many. I wouldn’t want any of those hi-temp materials splashing over me in a vehicle crash.
@@chow-chihuang4903 High-temp SSBs would be inside a double-walled insulated steel container to keep themselves warm without wasting energy doing so. You'd need both shells to get ripped apart before anything could come out. Much safer than conventional lithium batteries that can turn into much hotter uncontrollable fireballs within seconds from impact.
In the 1980s people were talking about ceramic engines running at 350C using soot as a lubricant. Two issues were brittle parts when cold and air in the ceramic parts when they were being made in a pug mill. Because you can’t machine a ceramic matrix composite of silicon aluminium carbide and tungsten wire with any tool. Great for making spark plugs. Great for making a two stroke lawn tool that needed no two stroke oil that cost $20,000 and took five minutes to warm up. Putrid for anything bigger than 50cc
Interesting material, so with all this information, do you know which of the combined technologies are going into the SS batteries that will be produced in factories coming o line soon?
So we'll get solid state batteries in our EVs about the same time we get fusion power micro reactors in EVs. I think I'll just get an EV with a regular battery.
Thanks for an impressive summary. What do you think of th-cam.com/video/qqUuHQsfg7I/w-d-xo.html ? This is 'Fully Charged', so should be reliable. (Great t-shirt by the way; brings back a lot of memories)
EVs are still in the Innovator phase (Diffusion of Innovation curve). Based on Alternative Fuels Data Center under the US Dept of Energy, EVs were 1.2% of all registered light duty vehicles in the USA at the end of 2023. This translates to 3.5M EVs out of 283.5M registered light duty vehicles. From this, you can pretty much guess who the majority of the demographics buying EVs are. It certainly isn’t the poor. EVs advocates can’t deny statistics from the US Dept of Energy. It took 15 years of EV production in the USA to carve out a 1.2% share of total light duty vehicles in the USA whereas it took 22 years of hybrid (HE and PHEV) production to carve out 3%. IMO: If EVs can’t overcome their shortcomings compared to petrol cars, EVs will always be a niche market like hybrids. Solid state batteries would be a huge step for EVs if it overcomes any shortcomings that the mainstream buyer, but it is what it is for now, a niche market. Reference for the FACTS under the U.S. Dept of Energy: search for text in browser, ”alternative fuels data center vehicle registrations” ,then look for “vehicle registrations counts by state” in results.
Yet the best selling vehicle in the world is a BEV and many European countries and China have passed 20% of new sales being EVs. Cheapest car to own is listed by Consumer Reports US as Tesla Model 3 at $4000 over 10 years. Purchase price cheaper than a Prius and close to a Corolla within a few years. Next year a cheaper version again is to be released - Model Q.
@ With all the hype, we are still in the Innovator phase. Even with sales up, EVs as registered vehicles are minuscule with overall total registered vehicles. I am talking about “ownership” not “sales.” Ownership represents how much a population group has adopted a technology. It is estimated the total number of cars globally is 1.47 Billion. Retail production of EVs started at the end of 2008 so it has been selling for only 15 years. Sales started pickiing from 2017 and on. Based on IEA figures, 40.3 Million EVs were sold from 2015 to 2023. Note global EV sales were 500K in 2015. Total EVs sold = 40.3 Million. Total Global Cars = 1.47 Billion. EVs have a long way to go. Let’s keep perspective and look at the whole picture.
@@williamquemuel7824 The whole picture is obvious. ICE manufacturers are failing with all of them below 1.8 Altman Z scores. Failed companies have amalgamated into loss making mega-failures. OEMs are sacking staff and closing factories. Unions are panicking, suppliers downsizing. Over 200 countries have agreed climate change will make their futures bleak and joined the Paris Accord. Transport is the low hanging fruit of solutions and the major contribution a family can make to reducing CO2 production. Emission limits are making ICE redundant, increasing again next year in Europe. The auto world is in disruption. Like other technologies adoption follows an S curve that becomes irreversible at 5-10% adoption. Progressive countries like Norway have achieved almost total change to EVs sales in very short time. Owner satisfaction is absolute. China is following fast, and many of the Scandinavians are similarly enthusiastic about EVs. ICE have short brutal lives - average 133k miles of maintenance and repair misery before scrapping. Cost in use is high and subject to increasing gas prices in spite of massive subsidies. Gas stations will continue to close, parts become rare, motor deaths increase, cities air pollution persist... It will take decades for the majority of them to leave the roads, but it will follow a S curve. The problems the transition faces are public ignorance, lack of fear of the probable polluted future, lack of ability of OEMs to remain profitable and gain the skills needed to make a competitive, compelling BEV, and timid democracies back pedaling on the necessary incentives and penalties in order to maintain power.
I thought solid state batteries were fantasy but actually, potato batteries are solid state and exist right now. Not sure they are usable for EVs though... 🙂
No, the potato battery works on the water soaked into the material of the potato. Still the real problem with the potato battery is that you need to bury them in your garden for a year to recharge them.
@@zapfanzapfan Yes, the ions go through a solid. We don't usually think of things going through solids but think about the trouble making a hydrogen tank. Hydrogen just walks right through most materials
TE are the China version of MG available in the USA? I have been told they are on sale in Mexico and are seen regularly in states near the border. From the press release reviews have been given they are meant to start selling MGs with solid-state batteries very early 2025. If you want to know more information contact Gavin Shoebridge in New Zealand he has the information - because they have MG sales in the country
For those that don't know, “batteries going Windscale”(not wind scale) is not good and refers to Britain's worst nuclear disaster back in 1957.
Plainly difficult TH-cam channel and others covered windscale
Thanks Kate. I think I actually followed all of this (fair bit of college-level chem). At least enough to appreciate how much effort you put into to it. Thank you for the (semi) deep dives.
Yes, it was well explained. Technology is stuff I do but not chemistry but the explanation worked.
So basically, we shouldn’t hold our breaths for EVs that use solid state battery technology to come out anytime soon and just pick the solution that best fits our needs knowing that something better will be just around the corner. It doesn’t help that the car industry is struggling. Thank you, Kate. :)
Exactly. Although where have I heard this before? Computers? Phones? 😜😂
@@esprit1st75 Nuclear fusion? Bueller?!😅
I'm just waiting for Sodium Ions to grow in popularity and awareness
@@toyotaprius79 Sodium will be great for grid storage, but too heavy to be well suited to vehicles. LFP will always be better.
@@toyotaprius79 Sodium Ion batteries have way too low energy densities for electric mobility. At least until Sodium-Sulfur batteries go into mass production. But even then, Lithium Ion will be vastly superior in every way for mobility.
Sodium Ion will be, however, the go to batteries for stationary storage. In fact, those exist today.
Loved the Monty Python reference. Is always a pleasure to listen to a closer to reality state of Solid State tech talk
It annoys me your well thought out show gets less views than the rumor mill nonsense generated by pages like the Electric Viking. 😡
I unsubscribed that clown long ago.
t k you're annoyed . I like that . Sam is a paid BYD agent. They make his promotion videos for him.
You’re an awesome nerd, gives my heart warm fuzzies. Also, LOVE your commodore64 shirt, my first computer back in the 80s.
Yes it was a nice reminder even though I never had a C64. I had a ZX80 with 16K of added RAM and a tricky EPROM upgrade than made it work like a ZX80 or a ZX81 at the flick of a switch. It was a day where computers were fun rather than too often annoying.
Haha, I had the exact same thought. Loved my C64 back then.
I like the shirt. I wanted a Commodore 64 but was grateful for the Vic-20 my parents got me. It let me do my JH and HS computer homework and have a little fun on the side.
Thankyou, that was a very good and comprehensive explanation of a complex problem. My own degree is in Physics, with Computer Science and Mathematics, so I was certainly able to follow your explanation. As I am 'financially challenged' at present, an EV is a little beyond my purchasing power, but the scientist (and Technologist -- I am also Technology Teacher) in me hates the inefficiency of an ICE vehicle. My Renault Clio is just going to have to survive a little longer yet! Here's to a successful 2025 for all of us, probably despite certain US/World circumstances, to which even the UK isn't immune. Happy Christmas to you, Nikki and your wonderful team.
To my knowledge, the automotive industry has NEVER had this much widespread vaporware hype about anything before, so the accusation about Solid State represents FUD or even the Osborne effect is valid. The automotive industry is a design, marketing, and engineering industry. You may have some R&D trying some new things like variable compression, rotary or magnetically actuated valves, or Metal Matrix Composite, but none of that involved years of iterative chemical experimentation that risks breaking one feature as you gain another. If Solid State trades longevity for performance we might still get it, but it'd be a strike against sustainability (maybe). Would sustainability be the measure of success? Almost definitely not. The auto industry has the opposite incentive. They need to sell you a thing that doesn't last longer, and they do that by leasing you a car and telling you longevity is the 3rd owner's problem. Maybe, developing a universal cell/module design and selling you a car but giving you the option to buy the battery separately, could allow for discerning customers to buy the sustainable battery, consumerism and race to the bottom would undoubtedly concentrate sales around the best value or performance, with sustainability losing once again. Face it. Cars are killing us, and we need to move past them.
No, FSD isn't comparable. That's just a lie that people won't let go of. Most of the auto industry is NOT promising massive gains in autonomy soon. Most of the auto industry is not run by a lunatic child.
We're already overbuilding range with the tech we're building today. 400-500 miles range is not an EV driver's experiencial demand. It's a marketing/design brief target based on surveying ICE owners.
25:12
I need a battery! 🎵💥
I'm holding out for one with solid electrolytes
It's gotta stay cool, and
it's gotta be fast, and
it's gotta form no dendrites!
I'm from canada and dont want to be forced to use solid state batteries, so I'm inventing the world's first solid province battery and it will cost 30% less.
That's 30% less in US dollars, but 10% more in CD$.
Kate- thank you. I actually followed most of that. A lot of background research went into that. It almost sounds like the promise of nuclear fusion power. Any time now.
I am still hopeful for QS.
I also think that the Radio Shack Color Computer was one of the overlooked wonders of its age.
Again, thanks for the tour de force summary.
We were highfalutin. We made lemon batteries.
Hey Kate, Biochemist here also. We both know it was a rigorous bit of schooling and research.
Kate is a fellow bassist!!! The TE folks keep getting more likeable by the hour!
Thanks Kate for explaining to an idiot that all this is indeed beyond my comprehension but still entertaining me and giving me enough to look and sound scientific to my mates in the pub.
I was a full 10 minutes into the video admiring the bullet case earings before I realized my density. Guessing they're battery casings?
Capacitors I think?
@@chunkychuckagreed, they look like electrolytic capacitors
Love the Shirt, I loved my Commodore 64 and 128.
Wow, great video. Lots of facts and science. I know most people's eyes would glaze over, but personally I love to know how and why things works as well as how manufacturering and mass production fit in.
Sadly, 80 percent of people (or more) are more concerned about whom is in a Masked Singer costume.
@@johnlodge8546 I have a similar shirt in memory of my Commodore Plus 4 - when I got it as a present I was so overwhelmed I cried...
2:46 this is a chalice.
a grail is tray or bowl
grail (n.)
c. 1300, gral, "large shallow dish, basin," from Medieval Latin gradalis, also gradale, grasale, "a flat dish or shallow vessel." The original form is uncertain; the word is perhaps ultimately from Latin crater "bowl," which is from Greek krater "bowl, especially for mixing wine with water" (see crater (n.)).
thanks for that clarification. So they got it right in 'Mrs Davis' :-)
More Kate explainers please.
BTW: Kate if you want to mess up the world, you had better get a move on. Us rich straight white guys have a big head start on you.
"Grok" I haven't heard that in a long time. From "Stranger in a Strange Land" that I read frying back from Europe in 1970.
What a very effective communication of the current state in Solid State research.
Current battery tech is excellent. Solid state will have several stages to go through, refinement, Mass production, price reduction, not worth holding out for
Has come a long way since an nicad then NIMH & early li-ion
thanks for all the research! I had found the use of "solid state" as a buzz term for new battery tech to be mildly annoying. But honestly, it fits pretty well. Granted, current battery tech doesn't use vacuum and heated filaments... But the analogy holds up :)
I'm a Chemist also, Kate. Love this stuff. Thanks.
Witty review. Amusing also that those earrings use wet electrolyte...
Thank you Kate for another great video! That's why I like TE so much. It's not just one car review after another quickly filmed on a cell phone. Thank you to the whole TE team!
Those Capacitor Earrings are cute. Stay safe and love your informative videos.
Very interesting and informative. Thank you.
Rewatch game: song reference count? Holding out for a hero, comfortably numb, etc
No way you knew the Monty Python skit!?! Way too young for that
Then a reference to pink floyd comfortably numb? :O
It's always fun to watch for the retrocomputing references with Kate. I'd forgotten about 'Halt and Catch fire' :-) (turns out it became a TV series too in the 2010s)
Love it. Well beyond me in a number of places, but that's what we all need to expose ourselves to. Thanks.
...and Ian! He groks what is important. Love this channel. Another excellent geeky vid 😅
Can I join you in all these evil plots? This sounds way more fun than going to a mundane job every day. :D
@13:22 Where do the seat belts plug in to?
Wow! What a deep dive. Thanks Kate for all the research you must have done to make this video. BTW, love the battery ear rings.😀
Wow, Kate, that was a LOT of research you did. Thanks for bringing it to us!
Succinct, detailed, interesting and witty, many thanks from Australia♥
Nice job Kate; I made it to the end. 👍
Many thanks Kate, that has saved me a bucket load of reading and given mea good idea where the technology is at.
Kate and Nikki have dropped crumbs about their musical talent. I say break out the skills! You have peaked our curiosity. Kate and Nikki can play while the electric bass power is received from the F150 Lightning.
My feeling is that higher power density batteries not really needed for domestic cars ( although they would be nice to have ) but in things like long distance trucking where the battery mass eats into load capacity, short range shipping and short haul flights. Some of those might pay a premium for a high density reliable battery able to operate in a high temperature range.
Don't build renewables, wait for fusion energy.
Don't buy EV, wait for solid state batteries. /s
BTW, you didn't address the cost of this stuff. We literally cannot afford price increases on batteries. LFP is becoming the benchmark.
C64 Shirt! 😊
453... Got it! Thanks Kate. I'll wait for the movie to come out... Keep Evolving!!!
Keep up your hobbies Kate, especially the second half of that special one!!
Hi Kate, greetings from the U.K. I think the solid state battery question seems to consist of vapour ware. Particularly Toyota who seems to witter on about these being imminent every 18 months or so with not even a prototype to back it up. Battery technology will continue to improve, and there may be a wonder technology at some point. Where we stand now, I would be choosing a BEV with LFP cells. My BMW i3 BEV is 6 years old and has NMC cells, everything is just fine so far. I know you had a troublesome i3 a few years back, but (touch wood) mine has been just fine.
Thank you Kate, great update
Forgive my lack of in-depth understanding, but what about a gel or glue as the connector between electrolyte and electrode, akin to a rubber expansion joint in a road?
@@TobyDog the idea in a battery is to keep electrons flowing with minimum resistance if you stick a gel in between the layers you risk slowing the electrons, if you make it conductive, you have just created a liquid ( well gel ) electrolyte, the thing you are trying to replace .
@francesconicoletti2547 - it would need to be conductive, of course. No longer a liquid, though, and if it is just a film it could expand and contract and absorb the expansions and contractions of the other materials.
That type of 'solidstate' battery hybrid is what Quantum Scape is offering.
Thanks, Kate. I would also like to add that the EV platforms that actually benefit from solid-state batteries are very limited. Liquid-electrolyte batteries have advanced to the point that smaller, light-duty passenger vehicles see very little benefit outside of ranges that exceed realistic use cases. It's really only fullsize trucks, commercial/industrial vehicles, and aircraft that will benefit from the reduced mass and increased energy density.
I am hoping the solid state batteries will allow me to upgrade my leaf to 40kWh from 24kWh with the same weight.
The poor cooling performance may be a problem though.
Enjoyed the video - thanks for doing the heavy lifting to produce it.
I haven't seen you in a video for a while - I always enjoy your presentations, especially the seasoning of side jokes.
Please discuss the semi solid state Battery from Neo. With 360kwh/kg cell.And the battery pack is 260kwh/kg
Perhaps it should be Wh/kg?
I always enjoy informative content, with a great dash of humor.
That was a lot of info very quickly. Glad to know.
You had me at 'grok'. :)
“We’re preparing to get ready to investigate the concept of figuring out a design strategy for potentially using solid state batteries… maybe.”
Aptera is i think the key player in creating a "battery agnostic" future as the possibilities with both a solar powered and removable battery will effectively end the need for all of this "megapack" and further commoditize the pure play BEV architecture. Already a lease payment of *ZERO* for the Fiat 500e in Colorado is the report. Actual prices are starting to come down and that would be for everything the vehicle, the battery, the cost of charging everything. The capabilities of these pure play BEV which includes flying cars now is truly incredible now as well. Tesla pushing into Texas is an absolute game changer for the Industry opening up an entirely new domestic USA market that will include everything labeled above: the vehicle, the battery, the charging infrastructure, solar...everything...presumably with that the battery powered flying car as well. #nio_motors has lead the way in battery swap i look for that to continue 😊😊
An excellent, information dense episode! That's a lot of work. Thank you very much. Also, your green dangles, batteries I assume, were a bit distracting. Additionally, I really don't understand the value of the "turn to the other camera" aside style that you and Nikki employ. Not seeing the benefit there and with your general speaking style of frequently looking off to the side, I am always thinking there a camera switch coming.
Like the "old man" said at the dinner table in the movie Moonstruck, "I'm confused..." (while sobbing and crying)
P.S. for the algorithm...
Solid state is in a solid state for the past and into the foreseeable future. In the meantime many companies will make money out of vaporware especially the quantum turbo guy.
The absolute state of it all!
killer rabbits and holy grail references make me pay close attention. If your dad is as pleased by watching you as I am he is a very proud dad.
The last time I wrote about Mercedes-Benz buses they were having a failure or should I be more correct damage rate of 75% after taking a bus around a very controlled way of their test/race track which was very smooth a flat for only a few laps (3 to 7 laps going via memory)
But the real killer with their solid-state batteries it took hours upon hours to charge.
I am not sure if they cut back the program after going public about it highlighting all the issues they were having but I hope they moved on and developed a lot more since 4 years ago!
indeed, from consumers' perspective, solid state batteries are kind of irrelevant.
They are mostly relevant as PR BS for automakers like Toyota, to keep pushing further in the future making EVs.
Between silicon anodes allowing 500Wh/kg and batteries that can charge at 5C already commercially available, eliminating both range anxiety and charging times, the tipping point is already almost here. They need just to become ubiquitously adopted.
Anyway, Mercedes and Factorial claim they are testing solid state batteries as of now
Cousin Wiki sez Bollaré and Pininfarina built hundreds of ssb-powered subcompacts twenty years ago for fleet rentals and leases in a few French cities and Singapore. Only two caught fire so far. Later they started selling'em for 20k€.
Nice cap earrings! Funny note, my internet was being stupid and wouldn't load the hi rez video for the first few seconds of watching this video. I was starting to think you were pulling a low rez stunt to pay homage to your commodore 64 shirt😅 Watching this video felt a bit like the "you get to drink from the firehose!" scene from UHF.
There is some research going into working around ceramics' brittleness by designing batteries that operate at 300-550C where ceramics get softer. Lots of crazy stuff going on.
How much energy do you need to use to keep the batteries at such a high (relative to ambient temp) temperatures?
@@quartzofcourse Little to none by using thermos-style vacuum isolation. The paper I remember reading said internal losses should be enough under typical use.
This is similar to molten salt batteries for grid-scale storage.
I think those are best suited for static applications, of which there are many. I wouldn’t want any of those hi-temp materials splashing over me in a vehicle crash.
@@chow-chihuang4903 High-temp SSBs would be inside a double-walled insulated steel container to keep themselves warm without wasting energy doing so. You'd need both shells to get ripped apart before anything could come out.
Much safer than conventional lithium batteries that can turn into much hotter uncontrollable fireballs within seconds from impact.
In the 1980s people were talking about ceramic engines running at 350C using soot as a lubricant. Two issues were brittle parts when cold and air in the ceramic parts when they were being made in a pug mill. Because you can’t machine a ceramic matrix composite of silicon aluminium carbide and tungsten wire with any tool. Great for making spark plugs. Great for making a two stroke lawn tool that needed no two stroke oil that cost $20,000 and took five minutes to warm up. Putrid for anything bigger than 50cc
Go Kate!
Interesting material, so with all this information, do you know which of the combined technologies are going into the SS batteries that will be produced in factories coming o line soon?
I tried to watch this video but the audio track was in French and I was unable despite several attempts to change this to English - !
someone’s gone ‘ techno Goth’ ;-)
Thanks
Ah yes, ye old C64, and the PET before it. The days of 1541 Flash and cassettes. Those were the days.
Oh wow, are those capacitor earrings? How appropriate.
I am sure this was a good talk, but I could not follow it
No, I didn't build potato batteries in school, was this something you did in high school chemistry class?
Nice talk. Perhaps cut the jokes by half. Most were predictable "cars move". Mostly want the info and enjoy your POV.
So we'll get solid state batteries in our EVs about the same time we get fusion power micro reactors in EVs. I think I'll just get an EV with a regular battery.
What's going on with your project car? Moggy, wasn't it?
Thanks for an impressive summary. What do you think of th-cam.com/video/qqUuHQsfg7I/w-d-xo.html ? This is 'Fully Charged', so should be reliable.
(Great t-shirt by the way; brings back a lot of memories)
Fully charged … reliable. No. Not in comparison to actual scientists
Yes my Tallest!
Super ionic conduct sounds like scifi
So companies need a holy hand grenade to get the solid state?
We just need bigger potatoes. Or maybe we could use Elon's gut instead - that's a fair size.
EVs are still in the Innovator phase (Diffusion of Innovation curve). Based on Alternative Fuels Data Center under the US Dept of Energy, EVs were 1.2% of all registered light duty vehicles in the USA at the end of 2023. This translates to 3.5M EVs out of 283.5M registered light duty vehicles. From this, you can pretty much guess who the majority of the demographics buying EVs are. It certainly isn’t the poor. EVs advocates can’t deny statistics from the US Dept of Energy. It took 15 years of EV production in the USA to carve out a 1.2% share of total light duty vehicles in the USA whereas it took 22 years of hybrid (HE and PHEV) production to carve out 3%. IMO: If EVs can’t overcome their shortcomings compared to petrol cars, EVs will always be a niche market like hybrids. Solid state batteries would be a huge step for EVs if it overcomes any shortcomings that the mainstream buyer, but it is what it is for now, a niche market.
Reference for the FACTS under the U.S. Dept of Energy: search for text in browser, ”alternative fuels data center vehicle registrations” ,then look for “vehicle registrations counts by state” in results.
Yet the best selling vehicle in the world is a BEV and many European countries and China have passed 20% of new sales being EVs.
Cheapest car to own is listed by Consumer Reports US as Tesla Model 3 at $4000 over 10 years. Purchase price cheaper than a Prius and close to a Corolla within a few years.
Next year a cheaper version again is to be released - Model Q.
@ With all the hype, we are still in the Innovator phase. Even with sales up, EVs as registered vehicles are minuscule with overall total registered vehicles. I am talking about “ownership” not “sales.” Ownership represents how much a population group has adopted a technology. It is estimated the total number of cars globally is 1.47 Billion. Retail production of EVs started at the end of 2008 so it has been selling for only 15 years. Sales started pickiing from 2017 and on. Based on IEA figures, 40.3 Million EVs were sold from 2015 to 2023. Note global EV sales were 500K in 2015. Total EVs sold = 40.3 Million. Total Global Cars = 1.47 Billion. EVs have a long way to go. Let’s keep perspective and look at the whole picture.
@@williamquemuel7824 The whole picture is obvious. ICE manufacturers are failing with all of them below 1.8 Altman Z scores. Failed companies have amalgamated into loss making mega-failures. OEMs are sacking staff and closing factories. Unions are panicking, suppliers downsizing.
Over 200 countries have agreed climate change will make their futures bleak and joined the Paris Accord. Transport is the low hanging fruit of solutions and the major contribution a family can make to reducing CO2 production. Emission limits are making ICE redundant, increasing again next year in Europe.
The auto world is in disruption. Like other technologies adoption follows an S curve that becomes irreversible at 5-10% adoption. Progressive countries like Norway have achieved almost total change to EVs sales in very short time. Owner satisfaction is absolute. China is following fast, and many of the Scandinavians are similarly enthusiastic about EVs.
ICE have short brutal lives - average 133k miles of maintenance and repair misery before scrapping. Cost in use is high and subject to increasing gas prices in spite of massive subsidies. Gas stations will continue to close, parts become rare, motor deaths increase, cities air pollution persist... It will take decades for the majority of them to leave the roads, but it will follow a S curve.
The problems the transition faces are public ignorance, lack of fear of the probable polluted future, lack of ability of OEMs to remain profitable and gain the skills needed to make a competitive, compelling BEV, and timid democracies back pedaling on the necessary incentives and penalties in order to maintain power.
Take a drink every time “solid-state” is said. 😉
Alcohol poisoning is a thing you know…. Or will know if you try to play that game.
@@ChuckvdL I know 😈
For me, it's whenever "batry" is said :(
I miss the three-syllable version.
A solid state bat-tree is a tree that is not blowing in the wind and has a bat in it.
I thought solid state batteries were fantasy but actually, potato batteries are solid state and exist right now. Not sure they are usable for EVs though... 🙂
No, the potato battery works on the water soaked into the material of the potato. Still the real problem with the potato battery is that you need to bury them in your garden for a year to recharge them.
@@kensmith5694 Ions still have to move somehow in a solid state battery, right? Otherwise it's a capacitor.
@@zapfanzapfan Yes, the ions go through a solid. We don't usually think of things going through solids but think about the trouble making a hydrogen tank. Hydrogen just walks right through most materials
Just a weird notice - are your earnings made of bullet shells?
You don't need SSB to own an EV!
Come see Aptera at CES 2025 and see the future of EV's in less than 3 weeks!
But single sideband is so efficient compared to AM … oh you didn’t mean THAT SSB…
@@stevewausa I bet that whoosed over almost everybody's heads. Almost
First!!!
TE are the China version of MG available in the USA?
I have been told they are on sale in Mexico and are seen regularly in states near the border.
From the press release reviews have been given they are meant to start selling MGs with solid-state batteries very early 2025.
If you want to know more information contact Gavin Shoebridge in New Zealand he has the information - because they have MG sales in the country
No MG in the USA.
The difference is if you drop a plastic cup (a polymer) it will likely survive unscathed. If you drop a china cup (solid state) it shatters.
😂 you can collect your hat 🥳 on the way out.🤦🏻🧙🏼♂️
12/18/2024 Stache'd : Port of Miami Explosion Update . New Details. Salvaged EV cars explode in container .
Not “salvaged EV cars” - “flooded Tesla Model S”
Yes they were flood victims and where being shipped for parts salvage. So what is your point ?
Thank you everyone. 🏜🕺🏻🐕🏖