We bloody need a Buff. That ERA paragraph gave me an aneurysm, its literally Chobham armour from the cheiftain bolted to the challenger 2. if you are not going to make the chobham armour as affective as it should be *such as the armour on the cheiftain turret* then give me my 10 tones of weight reduction back.
The ERA situation is laughably, the blocks on the TES/OES are twice the size and weight of the previous ones yet provide no benefit whatsoever? And on the STANAG level 5 gibberish, who came up with that logic? Absolute rubbish.
@@FXIIBeaver Saying that would make more sense if I argued they should be twice as good because they are twice the size and weight, which I did not nor would I. It’s more logical that there is a benefit than not, it could be to mitigate tandem charge warheads or multi hit durability etc etc. Extra girth and weight for the sake of it is highly doubtful.
1)Gaijin is lying in the devblog regarding ERA,they drop the name of the ticket-issue initiator :Legwolf,but entirely spread misinformation regarding it . 2)Legwolf has answered in the WT forums :" Theres been a long running myth its Armor Shield R. Its been proven wrong over and over and Gaijin made a mistake and spoke about an ERA package never used on TES or OES. Never even owned by the UK for that matter.It’s also completely irrelevant as Armor Shield R is ERA and ASPRO-HMT is a Passive/Active mix. WILDLY different protection and capabilities." 3)" The post shows that it is not Armor Shield R. It is ASPRO-HMT, a completely different product. This is information that can make or break the point about the ERA. It ISNT just ERA. Its Active and Passive armor in one brick. Composite style materials, mixed in with explosive reactive material, as explained in my posts, whereas Armor Shield R is just ERA and not used by the MOD." 4)So yeah,they are curently using ERA on Challie 2 OES/TES that dosent exist for them,while they are defending the non existant package,while not providing correct Chemical protection for it . 5)You can find the replies on War Thunder Forum,search Challenger 2 MBT - Technical data and Discussion and scroll to the bottom of it . 6)Legwolf will open yet another ticket to call Gaijin out on the bs.
This strikes me as similar to how in-game stingers are modeled along the same performance as Russian missiles even though they are remarkably different. That is why vehicles like the Strela massively overperform but the Santal, type 93 and FIM 92ks underperform.
Update,Smin answered to Legwolf and said will handle the new report personally : " Please tag me with the report when its completed. I will handle it."
@@PepegaSquadFlying Well that's promising atleast, Smin from my experience has been a pretty stand-up guy especially how he constantly deal with whiney manchildren thinking that he's the reason the devs make such horrible decisions all the time even though he's just the Community Manager.
Love how we defend the fact the British are being fucked by the round they've been given. The amount of info out there that says its better then the worst or second worst round in the game is plentiful. SO why do we just put it at dogshit and call it good. And since its unavailable to make china on the same level. Why is it that every single turn for Britain they just go nahhh we see this paperwork but we assumed the worst. SMH
The ERA statement if enough for me to think gaijin truely doesn't give a fk about British vehicles performance. Ohh it performs differently per vehicle.. Ohh ok i guess only Russia knows how to build working era
They need to stop depending on real world data to balance top tier vehicles. This problem of not having unclassified information will never go away meaning top tier will never have any kind of balance. Armor and shell characteristics on the balance needs of the game.
It depends on ukraine, bunch of the top tier tanks were knocked out there, T90M, Leopard 2 A6, Challenger 2, T72B3, polish T72s,T64 Oplot, sooner or later M1A2 and so on, its only a matter of time until some classified info becomes public after testing & being taken apart.
@@nuklear7074 I am not talking about the forums, either ukraine, russia or a third party will 100% put it up in the internet on several websites, once its in circulation it cant be really classified anymore, you will never get rid of it from military blogs & foreign hosted sites. The involved governments might still claim it as classified but i doubt they would really care about WT or Wikipedia, as foreign countries (china, iran and so on) will get it first hand anyway and thats the important issue for them. They have an exhebition near Moscow with a bunch of captured western equipment that is still in working condition, including tanks & IFVs so every civilan can take pictures of the fire contorls and so on, that is already a big leak in itself.
The ERA argument was idiotic, and just goes to show what lengths they will go to to not give buffs to certain vehicles that they don't already want to buff.
I’m glad the devs are finally giving us good communication about the issues with certain vehicles. It really incentivizes people to make quality bug reports and search for specific information. Right now, a lot of top tier tanks are stuck in an echo chamber of information because people don’t know the status of certain fixes and reports. This should really help to get things rolling again, at least for a while.
It would be good, if they bothered to actually read the tickets. They didn’t even get the correct armour side package in the dev blog which shows the complete lack of care and attention.
Basically what they say is," we know the upgrade exists but you're not getting it because we don't have 100% of the info so you just don't get anything for your hard work in grinding out a newer more modern vehicle." They are also statistically worse because they are heavier and Era still doesn't work right
Gaijn; doesn’t have info on British tanks armor, so doesn’t make educated guesses that would benefit the tanks armor, instead hinders its performance. Also Gaijn; lacks some info on specs of the tiny T series tanks armor, decides to made educated guess and give it op benefits in armor and era.
Except that Russia is still using tanks from the 80s and 70s with no major design changes. Ukraine argues K5 has 250mm of KE protection. While in game it only has 150 but relict has 250. Sounds like K5 is under performing.
@@FXIIBeaver Tbf, do we really think that any era block can stop that much kinetic energy lmao. To me it sounds like Russians and Ukrainians makin up bull lmao
@@mr.waffentrager4400 not a chally* player, but I do agree it needs a stronger mantlet. Britain’s may be insufferable, but they ain’t stupid, and definitely not stupid enough to make the mantlet that weak…
@@bendawg8-wi4dr they are not stupid, giving armor to mantlet is hard thats why most designs try to make the mantlet small, mantlet on t-80 or leopard 2a5 is as small as it can be. the truth is there is no composite in challenger mantlet, and definitely not 600mm of steel.
Gaijin does indeed have double standards, after all they themselves said they would fill in the blanks on the missing information about the Yak-141 as for the STANAG standards and firing tests it is either the fact they do not understand or they simply do not want to understand just ask them what is the irrefutable source about RELIKT working against APFSDS? we know it does not work IRL
my only question for this whole debate is if we don't have concrete information on things... that means the stats we have in game are made up, and if the vehicles are suffering cough cough Ariete cough cough, why not make up different stats? like actually balance the game instead of making it half realistic and half unrealistic and then saying you wont change the made up stats because you don't have the actual information. Make the game balanced or make it realistic, you cant do both.
Gaijin can't go 5 minutes without contradicting themselves. Italy just isn't liked by Gaijin for some reason. Maybe the CEO got rejected by an Italian woman when he traveled to Europe.
This Tank is NOT build to Hull Down. The Lower Hull have Stronger Armor with the Upgrades then the Abrams Turret Armor So Calm Down and Chill. The Chally is for a Reason a Bunker Tank. Show in Sources about Iraq War Chally 2 laughs with his Power about Abrams who dies in Afgahnistan, Iraq, etc so many times from a Simple RPG7 Shot or some Tow Rockets who didnt even Scrathed in the Real World the Chally 2 So before you say some stuff you possible not Understand inform yourself a bit about it.
what the fuck are you talking about? the doctrine that the Chally 2 was designed for was to literally go hull down and snipe soviet tanks that were advancing into western europe. and im from the UK, i know about the chally lil bro...@@fernandojohnsen7639
@@IceAxe1940 My Sources are War Proofen. Whats the Differnce btw. Dorchester and Chobham. Or Uranium and Relikt Armor ? Quick Info here. The first 2 Chally Tanks are only Fitted with Dorchester L2 Armor for Turret and Hull. The third Variant Chally 2F is Upgraded with Wolframm, Siliciumcarbonat. Uranium Armor. 200mm Between the Dorchester Armor, Kevler und Keramik Plates. Behind the Armor is an 50mm steel PLate. Its for Turret Front, Side and Hull front upper and lower Part. Include the Dorchester 2F Armor Pack infront of the Lower Hull. Any Other Variant wich comes after the 2F is fitted with the Same amount of Armor. Now you know the First step why the Chally 2 is and will stay the strongest Protected Tank in this Entire World. The Armor is Capable to deafeat over 2000mm HE or HEAT Projectiles when we can trust the Source wich is btw. Now Proofen thx to Ukrain. Kornet Rockets didnt damage the Tank, Attacka Rockets too. I mean on the Weakspots like the Side wich isnt really an Weak spot on this Tank is critical when a Kornet will hit the Side Lower Hull without extra Armor or Packs or anything. Now the Abrams. The Chally and Abrams are close to the years they fought in War. Their are some differences between the Armor, Penetration, Mobility, History, Power etc. Abrams is more Mobile, less Armor cause its only Steel and Chobham Armor. Chobham Armor is the First Armor Variant for the British Chally 1. Its the Upgraded Stuff from what the Chieftain got. Its 1,5 times stronger then Steel. Uranium Upgraded Armor only Existed in 6 Tusk 2 Abrams and in the SEPV3 Variant no other Abrams used it. In Afgahnistan 1 M1A2 Tusk with DU armor got destroyed from an Tow Rocket threw the Front Turret. I was a Soldier in Afgahnistan theese days. I saw a lot of American Stuff goes BOOM. Abrams is not exclusive or OP or even stronger then other Tanks. Its for his Area he fights in a Beast yeah. I mean he is maybe stronger then Russian Tanks wich is only Proofen against T72, 80B, T64, T62, BMP2, T54 Tanks. He never faced an T80U, or an T72B3 or an T90M/MS, etc. I mean in Ukrain 3 Abrams got killed in 2 Days. 2 From Kornet rockets 1 threw the Side Turret, and 1 Threw the Front Turret. 1 T72B killed an Abrams 500 meters away with a One Shot threw the Turret Ring. The Armor maybe is strong but this is not the Point. The Armor is Only Upgraded with DU Fist Generation Armor with DU. The Difference Between Chally 2 and Abrams is the Armor from the Chally is Priority Number 1, Firepower Number 2 and Mobility Number 3. Abrams is Mobility Number 1, Firepower 2 and Armor 3. The Chally uses the Strongest Armor his Times Dochester L2 Armor wich is a little bit stronger then Even Relikt Armor and Relikt is from 2015 Dorchester L2 Armor is from 1995. The New Chally 3 Just in case got an Armor Upgrade 2 the Armor is 6 times stronger then Steel. and 2 Times stronger then DU Armor. The Abrams X is just Garbage the Armor Parts are less, the weight is less, Mobility is Fire, Firepower is good but not even the third place. The Abrams is not a great Tank. He is good. The Armor lacks af. Afgahnistan Proofed it. Iraq. Lybia, Libanon, even Africa proofed it. etc. A lot of Abrams explode from Turret shots. With or Without DU Armor, Zero Chally is ever Destroyed in an Serious Combat Fight. The 1 Abonden in Ukrain destroyed an Entire Convoi and got stuck from a MIne, the Russians tried 5-6 Hours to kill this tank from Distance. Kamikaze drones helped in this Point. Abrams just explode when you throw a Stone at this Tank. Abrams maybe fought 2 Years more then a Chally 2 But they faced close the Same Enemys and Abrams got pinned into the ass from 3BM42 Apfsds, 3BM11 Apfsds, Even Heat or HE killed this Tankj, Rpg7 Rockets 74, Tow ok Tow Rockets are strong af with around 1200mm Penetration but the Chally give a Shit if its a Tow, Attacka, Kornet whatever, the Tank defeated alone 2 Mi28 Helicopters in Iraq. The Chally is a Sniper Rifle in a Bunker with acceptable Speed for his Amount of weight from the Armor. The Abrams is an High Explosive Shell with a Gas Turbine wich give him the Speed from an Ferrari be like. The Talliban and this is the Only Point I can say the Tank is great. They Fear the Tank not for Armor, Mobility, no for Firepower sometimes the Army put 3 50 Cals on the tank roof. I mean yeah against Cars this thing is daamn effective I would run too when I hear the Sound from an enemy 50 cal. But the Abrams is not great Protected or even reached this. He is Protected like the Chally 1 for 1980 Desert storm extremely Strong but for 2024 This guy SUCK
Sorry but this is just a bullshit post. The information regarding the side era of the TES is out there and its ridiculous to add all that weight for nothing.
As a british main with rank 8 air, ground, and helicopters I feel as I am somewhat qualified to speak on a few gripes I have with the challenger line of tanks. Armor: The lower front plate of the challenger is designed to have additional armor such as ERA or since the early 2000s an additional composite plate was put into service as standard issue to all challenger tanks, every challenger after the challenger 2 can mount the composite plate including the BN, 2E, and 3 TD. Spall Liners: I do not beleve they should have been added but the spall liners on several NATO vehicles are underrepresented, as for the challenger line of tanks I have no secret documents but I do beleve the British are smart enough to add a turret spall liner (a standard part of the challenger 2) to their next iteration of the challenger line, the challenger 3. Ammo: although I do quite enjoy the British rifled cannons the 2 part ammunition is modeled as both HESH and sabot projectiles and although the HESH should probably detonate when hit, last time I checked tungsten and depleted uranium do not explode. That is all.
When are they going to buff the Chinese MBT reload to 6.5 or 6.3 seconds as they have admitted. When will the israeli tanks armour and reload be modelled correctly?
Yup, he said the exact same shit about the Abrams. “I get it, it sucks. But gaijin is super consistent in what they expect and enforces it exactly the same way every time”
The issue with L-D formula is that it doesnt take into account the design or composition of the round, only the size. L27A1 is designed to penertrate ERA and that isnt modeled at all
imagine if they fixed challangers they say they dont have the specifics to correct it but where was the details they had to make the wooden tanks they gave us
Already forum posts from the guys who made the bug reports explaining that Gaijin have, once again, failed to interpret the available information correctly. Classic Gaijin "we know best, even though English is not our first language and we've spent 5 minutes looking at this"
The Type 10 has similar problems for example the type 10 has 3 different combat loadouts. A minimal armoured layout at 40 tons, A general combat loadout at 44 tons, and a max armour loadout of 48 tons. The Type 10 in game is loaded as the minimum armour package while weighing as much as the general loadout, it's missing 4 tons of armour. And before anyone says "iTs ClaSsiFiEd" no the armour composition is but the layout isn't, Japan has released diagrams showing the minimum and general layouts and the general layout has a massive armour block right on the lower hull.
Volumetric needs tons of work. Ever see a machine gun stop an is3 shell. No go ahead and shot a machine gun port and see what happens, nope the gun doesn't go all the way through to the engine block it just gets stopped
i would have to call that one on the players, ain't no way NATO can still complain after the 2A7V got added, Strv 122B+ was added and the Abrams got a massive buff.
It's a video game. It's not that serious. If Gaijin wants people to play certain trees, then it needs to be balanced in game, not waiting for nations to declassify secret information to bring a game into balance. If the imbalance, in the game, persists, then people won't play it, ergo the business loses money.
Other than the Leo2/Strv122 and their variants pretty much all of the other Western type MBTs are terribly implemented in game. Abrams/Challenger 1-2/Leclerc/Ariete/Merkava/Type10 all of them are pieces of crap.
👍. In the last 2 updates. They’ve made the claim, that they have changed the sounds of the challenges & leopards…. Not sure. Haven’t got them yet. Now if they can change / update sound changes. Why can’t they fix the silent tanks??? It’s not something that has just happened recently it’s been on going for at least 3 ish years…. It just seems that they don’t increase the armour of other nations. To maintain the ussr bias…. I believe there’s only 2 tanks that have spall liners. Both are in the ussr tree. From a guess it’s just how the code / model other nation vehicles…. There’s nothing realistic about this game. It’s just a simulation game…. So they just make up in the coding what they want. And then make statements like this which is just an excuse… imo to maintain ussr bias. Eg. 2s38. 10.3 auto cannon. 250ish mm pen, evey other 10.3 auto canno at 10.3. They only have 80 - 150 ish mm pen. Definitely not implying the 2s38 should or needs to go up in br it shouldn’t, do I think the others should go down in br yes.
lol chally2 should have best armour at top tier full stop, it just lacks trophy. Why can’t they just make it realistic and make Russian tanks cheaper and not limited to crew at top tier or something
im in dis agreance BRITAIN HAS THE WORST TOP TIER SHELL BY SPALL AND PEN PERIOD SOMETHING needs to change not only the worst top tier shell but also the worst armour profile in the game and the side armour it is supposed to have the 2 2f with the addone thicker nera / era side armour is functionally worse than having none because it adds 10.0 plus tons of weight for no benefit in armour protection 10 percent is no worth 10 tons of weight you would be better of with using a t10m vs an is 3 at that point this isnt balance
Both of them used outdated sources, the sources they use literally have addendum from years later that adds an “as costumer see’s fit” clause effectively making the amount of DU hulls to be acquired by America to effectively infinite
@@theliteralworst9416seriously tho And they’re like someone who said they’re a driver said there’s no DU ARMOR or spall liner in the Abrams Like motherfucker Someone claimed to be And even the dumbfuck dude who said he was and provided he was in the service actually lied and just took a picture with the tank He was a logistical troop lmfao
@@theliteralworst9416 if you are right, then there is nothing stopping you from proving redeffect, Spockston and gaijin wrong by giving prove with source
@@einfachignorieren6156the only thing Spookston said was he thinks DU was added only on the SEP v3 possibly, not that none of them received it at all. He said it’s possible production Abrams had DU hulls before the v3 he just doesn’t have concrete proof.
![ILLSLICK - WINTER IS COMING [Official Video]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/dwTMeM1zIhQ/mqdefault.jpg)
We bloody need a Buff.
That ERA paragraph gave me an aneurysm, its literally Chobham armour from the cheiftain bolted to the challenger 2. if you are not going to make the chobham armour as affective as it should be *such as the armour on the cheiftain turret* then give me my 10 tones of weight reduction back.
Gaijin should give links to the data to where they got the info on the 2s38 and t-90m
2s38 uses bmp3 chassis and t-90m uses t90a chassis with an assumption being made that the turret cheeks are the same
The ERA situation is laughably, the blocks on the TES/OES are twice the size and weight of the previous ones yet provide no benefit whatsoever?
And on the STANAG level 5 gibberish, who came up with that logic? Absolute rubbish.
That is not how that works.
@@FXIIBeaver Saying that would make more sense if I argued they should be twice as good because they are twice the size and weight, which I did not nor would I.
It’s more logical that there is a benefit than not, it could be to mitigate tandem charge warheads or multi hit durability etc etc.
Extra girth and weight for the sake of it is highly doubtful.
1)Gaijin is lying in the devblog regarding ERA,they drop the name of the ticket-issue initiator :Legwolf,but entirely spread misinformation regarding it .
2)Legwolf has answered in the WT forums :" Theres been a long running myth its Armor Shield R. Its been proven wrong over and over and Gaijin made a mistake and spoke about an ERA package never used on TES or OES. Never even owned by the UK for that matter.It’s also completely irrelevant as Armor Shield R is ERA and ASPRO-HMT is a Passive/Active mix. WILDLY different protection and capabilities."
3)" The post shows that it is not Armor Shield R. It is ASPRO-HMT, a completely different product. This is information that can make or break the point about the ERA. It ISNT just ERA. Its Active and Passive armor in one brick. Composite style materials, mixed in with explosive reactive material, as explained in my posts, whereas Armor Shield R is just ERA and not used by the MOD."
4)So yeah,they are curently using ERA on Challie 2 OES/TES that dosent exist for them,while they are defending the non existant package,while not providing correct Chemical protection for it .
5)You can find the replies on War Thunder Forum,search Challenger 2 MBT - Technical data and Discussion and scroll to the bottom of it .
6)Legwolf will open yet another ticket to call Gaijin out on the bs.
This strikes me as similar to how in-game stingers are modeled along the same performance as Russian missiles even though they are remarkably different. That is why vehicles like the Strela massively overperform but the Santal, type 93 and FIM 92ks underperform.
Update,Smin answered to Legwolf and said will handle the new report personally : " Please tag me with the report when its completed. I will handle it."
@@PepegaSquadFlying Well that's promising atleast, Smin from my experience has been a pretty stand-up guy especially how he constantly deal with whiney manchildren thinking that he's the reason the devs make such horrible decisions all the time even though he's just the Community Manager.
@@TamamoF0X Scratch that,he just passed the batton to Trickzzter and the dude is not bugging the reports.
@@PepegaSquadFlying Devastated, looks like the poor Chally will continued to be abused by the snail.
Love how we defend the fact the British are being fucked by the round they've been given. The amount of info out there that says its better then the worst or second worst round in the game is plentiful. SO why do we just put it at dogshit and call it good. And since its unavailable to make china on the same level. Why is it that every single turn for Britain they just go nahhh we see this paperwork but we assumed the worst. SMH
The ERA statement if enough for me to think gaijin truely doesn't give a fk about British vehicles performance. Ohh it performs differently per vehicle.. Ohh ok i guess only Russia knows how to build working era
They need to stop depending on real world data to balance top tier vehicles. This problem of not having unclassified information will never go away meaning top tier will never have any kind of balance. Armor and shell characteristics on the balance needs of the game.
It depends on ukraine, bunch of the top tier tanks were knocked out there, T90M, Leopard 2 A6, Challenger 2, T72B3, polish T72s,T64 Oplot, sooner or later M1A2 and so on, its only a matter of time until some classified info becomes public after testing & being taken apart.
@@DerDrecksack87i am waiting on Russian reports of captured tanks as the tend to publicise any findings.
THAT what we get when they accep your idea th-cam.com/video/gV9_Ihz8dYQ/w-d-xo.html
@@DerDrecksack87Even if Ukraine would release said information its still classified so Gaijin cant use it no matter what.
@@nuklear7074 I am not talking about the forums, either ukraine, russia or a third party will 100% put it up in the internet on several websites, once its in circulation it cant be really classified anymore, you will never get rid of it from military blogs & foreign hosted sites. The involved governments might still claim it as classified but i doubt they would really care about WT or Wikipedia, as foreign countries (china, iran and so on) will get it first hand anyway and thats the important issue for them. They have an exhebition near Moscow with a bunch of captured western equipment that is still in working condition, including tanks & IFVs so every civilan can take pictures of the fire contorls and so on, that is already a big leak in itself.
The ERA argument was idiotic, and just goes to show what lengths they will go to to not give buffs to certain vehicles that they don't already want to buff.
Even when we do have information they don’t use it for balancing purposes- tow-2b, hstvl, the spike
And then theres the 2s38
I’m glad the devs are finally giving us good communication about the issues with certain vehicles.
It really incentivizes people to make quality bug reports and search for specific information.
Right now, a lot of top tier tanks are stuck in an echo chamber of information because people don’t know the status of certain fixes and reports. This should really help to get things rolling again, at least for a while.
It would be good, if they bothered to actually read the tickets. They didn’t even get the correct armour side package in the dev blog which shows the complete lack of care and attention.
at least they're finally being specific about what they need.
Basically what they say is," we know the upgrade exists but you're not getting it because we don't have 100% of the info so you just don't get anything for your hard work in grinding out a newer more modern vehicle." They are also statistically worse because they are heavier and Era still doesn't work right
oddly enough it's not the players that benefit from the ERA, it's the AI on the PvE version of sands of sinai.
Gaijn; doesn’t have info on British tanks armor, so doesn’t make educated guesses that would benefit the tanks armor, instead hinders its performance.
Also Gaijn; lacks some info on specs of the tiny T series tanks armor, decides to made educated guess and give it op benefits in armor and era.
Except that Russia is still using tanks from the 80s and 70s with no major design changes. Ukraine argues K5 has 250mm of KE protection. While in game it only has 150 but relict has 250. Sounds like K5 is under performing.
What u want ? Give your challenger 600mm mantlet armor?
@@FXIIBeaver Tbf, do we really think that any era block can stop that much kinetic energy lmao. To me it sounds like Russians and Ukrainians makin up bull lmao
@@mr.waffentrager4400 not a chally* player, but I do agree it needs a stronger mantlet. Britain’s may be insufferable, but they ain’t stupid, and definitely not stupid enough to make the mantlet that weak…
@@bendawg8-wi4dr they are not stupid, giving armor to mantlet is hard thats why most designs try to make the mantlet small, mantlet on t-80 or leopard 2a5 is as small as it can be. the truth is there is no composite in challenger mantlet, and definitely not 600mm of steel.
Gaijin does indeed have double standards, after all they themselves said they would fill in the blanks on the missing information about the Yak-141
as for the STANAG standards and firing tests it is either the fact they do not understand or they simply do not want to understand
just ask them what is the irrefutable source about RELIKT working against APFSDS?
we know it does not work IRL
my only question for this whole debate is if we don't have concrete information on things... that means the stats we have in game are made up, and if the vehicles are suffering cough cough Ariete cough cough, why not make up different stats? like actually balance the game instead of making it half realistic and half unrealistic and then saying you wont change the made up stats because you don't have the actual information. Make the game balanced or make it realistic, you cant do both.
Gaijin can't go 5 minutes without contradicting themselves. Italy just isn't liked by Gaijin for some reason. Maybe the CEO got rejected by an Italian woman when he traveled to Europe.
@@krunchie101copium. Maybe. Just maybe. No tank is nearly as good as the owning nation claims.
@@FXIIBeaver Yes, but certain tanks have their best possible configurations while others....
@@krunchie101 except all tanks have the same exact weaknesses. Except for the BVM. It has a weakness most tanks don’t have.
Britain makes a tank that is designed to go hull down
Gaijin: lets not give this vehicle and composite around its most vulnerable part
This Tank is NOT build to Hull Down. The Lower Hull have Stronger Armor with the Upgrades then the Abrams Turret Armor So Calm Down and Chill. The Chally is for a Reason a Bunker Tank. Show in Sources about Iraq War Chally 2 laughs with his Power about Abrams who dies in Afgahnistan, Iraq, etc so many times from a Simple RPG7 Shot or some Tow Rockets who didnt even Scrathed in the Real World the Chally 2 So before you say some stuff you possible not Understand inform yourself a bit about it.
what the fuck are you talking about? the doctrine that the Chally 2 was designed for was to literally go hull down and snipe soviet tanks that were advancing into western europe. and im from the UK, i know about the chally lil bro...@@fernandojohnsen7639
who told u this @@fernandojohnsen7639 🤣
@@fernandojohnsen7639You got any proof that the lfp of the Challenger 2 is stronger than the depleted uranium turret face of the M1A2.
@@IceAxe1940 My Sources are War Proofen. Whats the Differnce btw. Dorchester and Chobham. Or Uranium and Relikt Armor ?
Quick Info here. The first 2 Chally Tanks are only Fitted with Dorchester L2 Armor for Turret and Hull. The third Variant Chally 2F is Upgraded with Wolframm, Siliciumcarbonat. Uranium Armor. 200mm Between the Dorchester Armor, Kevler und Keramik Plates. Behind the Armor is an 50mm steel PLate. Its for Turret Front, Side and Hull front upper and lower Part. Include the Dorchester 2F Armor Pack infront of the Lower Hull. Any Other Variant wich comes after the 2F is fitted with the Same amount of Armor. Now you know the First step why the Chally 2 is and will stay the strongest Protected Tank in this Entire World. The Armor is Capable to deafeat over 2000mm HE or HEAT Projectiles when we can trust the Source wich is btw. Now Proofen thx to Ukrain. Kornet Rockets didnt damage the Tank, Attacka Rockets too. I mean on the Weakspots like the Side wich isnt really an Weak spot on this Tank is critical when a Kornet will hit the Side Lower Hull without extra Armor or Packs or anything.
Now the Abrams. The Chally and Abrams are close to the years they fought in War. Their are some differences between the Armor, Penetration, Mobility, History, Power etc. Abrams is more Mobile, less Armor cause its only Steel and Chobham Armor. Chobham Armor is the First Armor Variant for the British Chally 1. Its the Upgraded Stuff from what the Chieftain got. Its 1,5 times stronger then Steel. Uranium Upgraded Armor only Existed in 6 Tusk 2 Abrams and in the SEPV3 Variant no other Abrams used it. In Afgahnistan 1 M1A2 Tusk with DU armor got destroyed from an Tow Rocket threw the Front Turret. I was a Soldier in Afgahnistan theese days. I saw a lot of American Stuff goes BOOM. Abrams is not exclusive or OP or even stronger then other Tanks. Its for his Area he fights in a Beast yeah. I mean he is maybe stronger then Russian Tanks wich is only Proofen against T72, 80B, T64, T62, BMP2, T54 Tanks. He never faced an T80U, or an T72B3 or an T90M/MS, etc. I mean in Ukrain 3 Abrams got killed in 2 Days. 2 From Kornet rockets 1 threw the Side Turret, and 1 Threw the Front Turret. 1 T72B killed an Abrams 500 meters away with a One Shot threw the Turret Ring. The Armor maybe is strong but this is not the Point. The Armor is Only Upgraded with DU Fist Generation Armor with DU. The Difference Between Chally 2 and Abrams is the Armor from the Chally is Priority Number 1, Firepower Number 2 and Mobility Number 3. Abrams is Mobility Number 1, Firepower 2 and Armor 3. The Chally uses the Strongest Armor his Times Dochester L2 Armor wich is a little bit stronger then Even Relikt Armor and Relikt is from 2015 Dorchester L2 Armor is from 1995. The New Chally 3 Just in case got an Armor Upgrade 2 the Armor is 6 times stronger then Steel. and 2 Times stronger then DU Armor. The Abrams X is just Garbage the Armor Parts are less, the weight is less, Mobility is Fire, Firepower is good but not even the third place. The Abrams is not a great Tank. He is good. The Armor lacks af. Afgahnistan Proofed it. Iraq. Lybia, Libanon, even Africa proofed it. etc. A lot of Abrams explode from Turret shots. With or Without DU Armor, Zero Chally is ever Destroyed in an Serious Combat Fight. The 1 Abonden in Ukrain destroyed an Entire Convoi and got stuck from a MIne, the Russians tried 5-6 Hours to kill this tank from Distance. Kamikaze drones helped in this Point. Abrams just explode when you throw a Stone at this Tank. Abrams maybe fought 2 Years more then a Chally 2 But they faced close the Same Enemys and Abrams got pinned into the ass from 3BM42 Apfsds, 3BM11 Apfsds, Even Heat or HE killed this Tankj, Rpg7 Rockets 74, Tow ok Tow Rockets are strong af with around 1200mm Penetration but the Chally give a Shit if its a Tow, Attacka, Kornet whatever, the Tank defeated alone 2 Mi28 Helicopters in Iraq. The Chally is a Sniper Rifle in a Bunker with acceptable Speed for his Amount of weight from the Armor. The Abrams is an High Explosive Shell with a Gas Turbine wich give him the Speed from an Ferrari be like. The Talliban and this is the Only Point I can say the Tank is great. They Fear the Tank not for Armor, Mobility, no for Firepower sometimes the Army put 3 50 Cals on the tank roof. I mean yeah against Cars this thing is daamn effective I would run too when I hear the Sound from an enemy 50 cal. But the Abrams is not great Protected or even reached this. He is Protected like the Chally 1 for 1980 Desert storm extremely Strong but for 2024 This guy SUCK
I mean a video released this week of two Bradley’s absolutely BODYING a T90M so r they gonna make the side armor even weaker?
They damaged the turret ring only and then a FPV drone killed it
THE ISSUE OF AGILITY STARTS AT CENTURION MK 1 AND AFFECTS ALL BRITISH MBT UPTO CHALLENGER 2 ..
GAYJIN HAVE ALOT OF BRITISH TANKS TO FIX
🥶🥶🥶🥶🥶
Sorry but this is just a bullshit post. The information regarding the side era of the TES is out there and its ridiculous to add all that weight for nothing.
Nice, hopefully the chally will be a bit better to play now :)
As a british main with rank 8 air, ground, and helicopters I feel as I am somewhat qualified to speak on a few gripes I have with the challenger line of tanks.
Armor: The lower front plate of the challenger is designed to have additional armor such as ERA or since the early 2000s an additional composite plate was put into service as standard issue to all challenger tanks, every challenger after the challenger 2 can mount the composite plate including the BN, 2E, and 3 TD.
Spall Liners: I do not beleve they should have been added but the spall liners on several NATO vehicles are underrepresented, as for the challenger line of tanks I have no secret documents but I do beleve the British are smart enough to add a turret spall liner (a standard part of the challenger 2) to their next iteration of the challenger line, the challenger 3.
Ammo: although I do quite enjoy the British rifled cannons the 2 part ammunition is modeled as both HESH and sabot projectiles and although the HESH should probably detonate when hit, last time I checked tungsten and depleted uranium do not explode.
That is all.
When are they going to buff the Chinese MBT reload to 6.5 or 6.3 seconds as they have admitted. When will the israeli tanks armour and reload be modelled correctly?
Hopefully never
the reload is meant to be as it is, its not a bug its literally intended
@@uisce_ gaijin have acknowledged that the vt4 should have a 6.5 second autoloader also in real life the ztz99a has a 6.5 second autoloader and APS
@TheEuropeanCanadian How do you highlight multiple rows of text like that?
Gaijin is a never ending fountain of bullshit about why they have to keep all non-Russian tanks in a nerfed state.
TEC cannot stop throating gaijin's inconsistent logic for 5 minutes
average big warthunder youtuber
Yup, he said the exact same shit about the Abrams. “I get it, it sucks. But gaijin is super consistent in what they expect and enforces it exactly the same way every time”
Seethe and cope. If you can make a better warthunder by all means please go make a better warthunder.
@@FXIIBeaverpeople are bruh they have ghpc
Not to mention games like steel beasts but keep being ignorant
The issue with L-D formula is that it doesnt take into account the design or composition of the round, only the size. L27A1 is designed to penertrate ERA and that isnt modeled at all
imagine if they fixed challangers they say they dont have the specifics to correct it but where was the details they had to make the wooden tanks they gave us
Already forum posts from the guys who made the bug reports explaining that Gaijin have, once again, failed to interpret the available information correctly. Classic Gaijin "we know best, even though English is not our first language and we've spent 5 minutes looking at this"
The Type 10 has similar problems for example the type 10 has 3 different combat loadouts. A minimal armoured layout at 40 tons, A general combat loadout at 44 tons, and a max armour loadout of 48 tons. The Type 10 in game is loaded as the minimum armour package while weighing as much as the general loadout, it's missing 4 tons of armour. And before anyone says "iTs ClaSsiFiEd" no the armour composition is but the layout isn't, Japan has released diagrams showing the minimum and general layouts and the general layout has a massive armour block right on the lower hull.
Someone else knows the combat armor loadouts
Volumetric needs tons of work. Ever see a machine gun stop an is3 shell. No go ahead and shot a machine gun port and see what happens, nope the gun doesn't go all the way through to the engine block it just gets stopped
I'm sure they just used. 50 cal to test the armour protection. No way they checked it against guns firing dangerous ammo
One problem at a time
FINALLY
I don't mind them balancing the game, my issue is that they balance it so that Russian teams have 70% win rate...
But they don't
as of now Russia has a 50 percent winrate, sweden has the highest of 71 percent
i would have to call that one on the players, ain't no way NATO can still complain after the 2A7V got added, Strv 122B+ was added and the Abrams got a massive buff.
Germany's taking over currently.
@@za10286Data is not public either way, and thunderskill is unreliable.
It's a video game. It's not that serious. If Gaijin wants people to play certain trees, then it needs to be balanced in game, not waiting for nations to declassify secret information to bring a game into balance. If the imbalance, in the game, persists, then people won't play it, ergo the business loses money.
Should be a hull down monster like the chieftain
Other than the Leo2/Strv122 and their variants pretty much all of the other Western type MBTs are terribly implemented in game. Abrams/Challenger 1-2/Leclerc/Ariete/Merkava/Type10 all of them are pieces of crap.
👍. In the last 2 updates. They’ve made the claim, that they have changed the sounds of the challenges & leopards…. Not sure. Haven’t got them yet. Now if they can change / update sound changes. Why can’t they fix the silent tanks??? It’s not something that has just happened recently it’s been on going for at least 3 ish years….
It just seems that they don’t increase the armour of other nations. To maintain the ussr bias…. I believe there’s only 2 tanks that have spall liners. Both are in the ussr tree. From a guess it’s just how the code / model other nation vehicles…. There’s nothing realistic about this game. It’s just a simulation game…. So they just make up in the coding what they want. And then make statements like this which is just an excuse… imo to maintain ussr bias. Eg. 2s38. 10.3 auto cannon. 250ish mm pen, evey other 10.3 auto canno at 10.3. They only have 80 - 150 ish mm pen. Definitely not implying the 2s38 should or needs to go up in br it shouldn’t, do I think the others should go down in br yes.
lol chally2 should have best armour at top tier full stop, it just lacks trophy. Why can’t they just make it realistic and make Russian tanks cheaper and not limited to crew at top tier or something
Being an hypocrite is bad, just so you know
im in dis agreance BRITAIN HAS THE WORST TOP TIER SHELL BY SPALL AND PEN PERIOD
SOMETHING needs to change
not only the worst top tier shell but also the worst armour profile in the game and the side armour it is supposed to have the 2 2f with the addone thicker nera / era side armour is functionally worse than having none because it adds 10.0 plus tons of weight for no benefit in armour protection 10 percent is no worth 10 tons of weight you would be better of with using a t10m vs an is 3 at that point this isnt balance
i played a majority of nations to atleast 11.0 minus China and Israel ( planes only on russia to 9.3)
Why dont they do this with ERA lol
Oh but they didn't
just give them dm53
When of the ariete 😂
Please break it in a good way so my beloved Challenger is fun to play again :)
Dorchester amour package??????????????
only issue is maps some kinda suck
You are a Master Complainer Level Max.
This is how they get scrubs to leak RL information on vehicles.
Neither spookston nor redeffect found any Indikation for DU armor ind abrams hull
Both of them used outdated sources, the sources they use literally have addendum from years later that adds an “as costumer see’s fit” clause effectively making the amount of DU hulls to be acquired by America to effectively infinite
@@theliteralworst9416seriously tho
And they’re like someone who said they’re a driver said there’s no DU ARMOR or spall liner in the Abrams
Like motherfucker
Someone claimed to be
And even the dumbfuck dude who said he was and provided he was in the service actually lied and just took a picture with the tank
He was a logistical troop lmfao
@@theliteralworst9416 if you are right, then there is nothing stopping you from proving redeffect, Spockston and gaijin wrong by giving prove with source
@@einfachignorieren6156 people already have lol
@@einfachignorieren6156the only thing Spookston said was he thinks DU was added only on the SEP v3 possibly, not that none of them received it at all.
He said it’s possible production Abrams had DU hulls before the v3 he just doesn’t have concrete proof.
FIX THE ARIETES ARMOR
Game from clowns for clowns, get some self respect
Solution: Stop playing this dumb, biased game.
First 🥇