I hope Sabine decides not to be a Jedi but maybe just use a lightsaber when she needs to. I also agree that she’s shown to be capable as a mandalorian so she really doesn’t need to be talented at everything.
Yet, hard work can and routinely does eclipse talent. Especially if the talented do not apply themselves. Sabine (as Ahsoka says), needs the discipline to open herself up to achieving her own potential. Then combining that with her masterful combat abilities (and usual Mando tricks), and she could be one of the most deadly combatants in the current era of Star Wars.
@@ChosenOne-il4bm look at that you're in another comment section acting like lazy storytelling is good repeating yourself even copy and paste and somehow other people are losers lol ❤
It would make more sense or just be better if she was blocked from the Force for some reason. Though Ahsoka saying she wants Sabine to ‘be herself’ once again sounds like classic shallow Disney false propaganda. Unless Filoni actually has a more coherent idea for what’s supposed to be ‘female empowerment’.
@@Age_of_Apocalypse She kicks Kanan, who is flying downhill, and then jumps 10 meters from above in front of him - maybe it's just a cartoon, but it totally looks like a force jump or can everyone jump that much? th-cam.com/video/eOEGFnrDfpM/w-d-xo.htmlsi=nEtpAUblIwL_cXl8&t=142
Given that Sabine will likely have to face off with real force-yielding baddies, it a very good idea to get all the training you can just to stay alive until Ahsoka can bail your ass out.
@@ChosenOne-il4bmso why couldn't we see this training? why did it have to be off screen? Also Ray literally downloaded somebody else's training without any effort but I guess we should ignore this because she finally got training off screen somewhere. Calling people losers because they want better storytelling is what a loser would do.
I wouldn’t mind one moment where she force pushed Shin next ep during their fight, but that’s it, and she says to Ahsoka for one moment she was able to focus, but she has to train to do it again. But if she just force pushes her then can instantly use the force perfectly and Ahsoka training isn’t needed anymore then I’ll have a problem cause that’s exactly Rey
We all will at that point. I'm pretty sure Filoni is going for that angle. One crucial moment and she Force pushes Shin to make her escape (using her weaponry as cover).
I’m almost done re-watching rebels and yeah, sure Sabine being trained is kind of weird but she did receive training in rebels so it does make sense much more than Ray ever did…
@matttrevers2552 actually Kanan mentions the quote Yoda does in Empire about the force being in all things but Sabine has/is cut off from it when training her.
Exactly, Sabine has actually undergone onscreen training and is still willing to learn. Making her a far better character and even if she doesn’t have the force, the Jedi teaching can improve her skills.
God, I had an argument with a guy on Reddit about when it comes to the Force. He straight up argued that training is not important at all when it comes to The Force and that you just need to be open to it and trust in The Force. What made it frustrating is they was apparently older than me and say the original Trilogy in theaters as a teen.
@guyincle126 I mean tons of people have lost fights, unless ur head is taken off or ur split down the middle I think you can live. Maul got sliced in half and still came back. If you can suspend your disbelief for that then a simple jab into the liver isn’t gonna kill anybody.
@@joshbourne9679 Maul is really the worst example here. He was clearly dead in TPM, and there was nothing ambiguous there. He was literally cut in half and fell down a bottomless pit. They brought him back because Filoni loved that character and thought the character had potential that wasn't used in TPM. But if Maul can survive being cut in half, being stabbed shouldn't be worse than getting stung by a mosquito. Which it really shouldn't - why couldn't Sabine lose a hand instead? Or a leg, for a change.
@@countluke2334 and again being stabbed unless directly in the chest area isn’t really that big of an issue. Especially with Star Wars medical stuff. And Sabine had access to it immediately. Qui-Gon didn’t die immediately after he was stabbed he died like 20 minutes later after obi fought maul and then sliced him in half. Maybe if he had access to being healed within 5 minutes he would’ve lived
I suppose Sabine training to use the Force feels weird is because it always felt like it was an exclusive club. A bit like becoming a mage in other series. You're either capable, or you're not. Of course then I remember that in Knights of the Old Republic 2, you can train almost your entire crew as Jedi. That being said, I like that they're showing her struggling through training instead of just being instantly good at the Force without any effort. Feels so much more believable since Anakin and Luke (the Chosen One and his son) had to go through training too.
I can’t believe it’s been nearly 10 years since the force awakens came out and people still bash Rey myself included. I guess it proves the sequels will never age well…
I think using the Force is a bit like being a musician. Some have a natural ear for it, some are prodigies, and others seem completely tone-deaf and rhythmless at first glance. But, with enough practice, exposure, education and experimentation, damn near ANYONE can pick up an instrument and mash out a simple song. Not everyone will be The Beatles, Taylor Swift or Metallica, but most people can at least carry a tune if they try.
Great analogy - I agree with you. Jedi simply chose to take children with highest potential to the Temple because they could. I mean a whole galaxy worth of children was there for them to choose from. Obviously it made sense to train the prodigies, not the okay-ish ones. But based on the prequel, force sensitivity is a scale as you pointed out as well. There are people who were not talented enough for Jedi training, but could still be considered somewhat force sensitive. The quote from the episode about not being as good as the other padawans certainly says to me that Sabine fits in this category.
Exactly right. Talent can only get you so far. Your talent is like... getting a headstart, but can be heavily wasted if not nurtured. Yet someone with supposedly "no talent" (like Sabine here apparently), can still succeed with a large amount of effort. It's like the old adage: nature vs nurture. What is natural can be hampened or grown depending on how it is nurtured. Or what isn't natural could become natural through hard work and effort.
I would point out that Luke wasn't shown to have any level of force sensitivity until the exercise he did with obi-won in the millennium falcon. We were told he was a good pilot, but he never used the force actively until adulthood when he opens himself up to it. Even then his use of the force in a new hope is very limited. He doesn't start to get truly component with it until he starts training with Yoda. So there is precedent for force powers going unnoticed for a long time. Though I still think it will fit the story for Sabine to never really get good at it, just better then the average person with a little bit of precognition abilities, maybe able to move small objects etc.
And yet we do have prior evidence that Sabine has Force Sensitivity (many Rebel's episodes, her dream of Ezra in Episode 1). It's just... not going to be Luke Skywalker level.
Reason why everyone else hates it. We know that she at the last episode is just going to close her eyes and get the Disney cheat code unlocked and she gets instant mastery of it. Training isn't the issue. The issue is we know Disney will make it all meaningless and unlock it all or enough to easily beat her foe.
I like your basketball analogy. I've always used running a marathon, myself, but basketball is probably even better, since the skill set is a little more multifaceted than running a marathon. According to Lucas, it's the Midichlorians in your body that actually connect to the Force and are therefore responsible for your manifestation of Force powers. However, I see no reason that the count would need to be fixed and that, by training to let the Force flow, you also increase your Midichlorian count, much like you develop stronger muscles with training.
I always just saw midichlorians are just genetics. Some people are just genetically predisposed to be naturally gifted at some things, but genetics aren't everything. With enough hard work, you can overcome those genetics, and with a lack of it, you can waste those genetics. Same thing applies to midichlorian count.
What I love the most about the new Sabine story arc, is that it gets into the "not force sensitive enough" point that is supposed to be true for the vast majority of the of living beings,as as you point out. I think it also makes sense from Rebels, as it does give a reason for her to be so good at fighting, and how she could "beat" Kanan in their lightsaber training fight. Because of the focus on Ani and Luke, George Lucas' canon never really went into the "force sensitive but not enough" side of the Jedi order. It could have been a huge story arc with Finn in the "sequels", feeling the Force, but not enough to become a Jedi. I am actually really happy that this is a thing, especially with a character like Sabine. It explains so much about how special she is as such a young age, and yet, just the idea of having a weak force sensitive character allows to explain so much about why Anakin is the chosen one, while Yoda or Obi-Wan are not. Not to mention making the way the Force works in Star Wars far more coherent.
Han being so lucky with gambling, such a good pilot, and being so charismatic to be a good smuggler was always seen by most headcannons as "not sensitive enough"
The mainline films didn't address it, but the EU had a construct, the Jedi agricultural Corp for those who were either strong enough in the force to cause problems or be persecuted by their communities, those unable to master their emotions for field service, or those too weak to become a Jedi Knight, Obi-Wan was going to go off to the Agricultural Corp before Qui gonn stepped in and took him as his padawan. Also in the EU the inquisition was made up of force sensitives who while they wouldn't be powerful Sith or Jedi, their connection to the force allowed them to sense other force users and, combined with a rigid training program, allow them to be deadly opponents to the average Knight.
@isaiahsmith7123 And that sounds a lot like Dave Filoni (Lucas's Padawan), bringing in those older ideas, and reintegrating them into canon. That Force Sensitivity has always been a scale, and only the exceptional became full fledged Jedi or Sith (if they belonged to those sects).
The training is also a way to keep the system in check and make sure they keep people from using the force turning into a "bad guy". Hence taking them from peoples families at a super young age ans training them to keep control and hyper focus the skillset to be another very powerful individual in the society at large. This training also tempers their insecurities and agression away to not let their emotions get the best of them in the worst way especially when trained. Hence why its so important for ppl to "complete" their training. Its a tenuous situation since they could just be training their own enemies one day if a tragic event occurs.
The sad part is I really liked Daisy Ridley as Rey and wanted them to do right by her, but they didn’t. I am not really digging live action Sabine though.
I really-really liked her... for the first half of the Force Awakens. That movie gave me so much hope for a good sequel and... took most of it away at the end. The Last Jedi took the rest of the hope away... Funnily enough, the thing that killed it was a desert dweller easily and calmly diving into water... I was like "yep, Mary Sue"
yeah I understand, I hear a lot of negativity about her and while I agree with some of it, character wise I thought both the actress and the character she played were ok, with potential for more and its really just bad writing that dragged her down along with the Disney Star Wars having a lot of problems and sadly Daisy Ridley/Rey is the face in front of those problems.
@@Strongpoint_Sexactly how i feel, first 2 acts of Force Awakens, shes great. but then they just give her abilities out of nowhere and then refuse to let her fail or have any development.
@@fruitylerlups530That's what's so frustrating about Rey as a character. She just gets given all these skills and abilities that not even Anakin, the Chosen One could ever hope to achieve in a few days (even if the Father granted it to him). Rey was a disservice to Daisy Ridley as an actor. And a middle finger to Star Wars fans.
Wow, that Kanan clip really sums up what they're trying to do with Sabine. I'd forgotten he said that. Great quote, Thor! That's it in a nutshell. Sabine probably does have force sensitivity, but she can't use it because she's conflicted. Kanan could sense it, and Ahsoka no doubt sees the same thing. Ahsoka wants to help Sabine resolve her conflict so she can reach her full potential, whatever that may be. Sabine has always been a rebel. Born into a conformist culture, but choosing to express herself with art instead. That's the conflict within her: conformity vs. creativity, discipline vs. chaos. In Rebels she was more creative and chaotic, but hanging around Kanan and Ezra (and presumably having later adventures with Ahsoka) showed her another way. The Jedi practice discipline without losing their individuality. My guess is Sabine feels like a failure despite accomplishing so much at an early age. Her accomplishments have only led to everyone she cared about (with the exception of Hera and Zeb) dying or disappearing. That's why she didn't want to attend the dedication of the monument that was based on her own artwork, it would have just been a party full of people congratulating her for successes she feels she hasn't earned. Maybe that's why she seemed to be living as a slacker in the radio tower. There was nothing of her in that place except the armor stored under a bench. No inventions or artwork. That's what Ahsoka wants to help her get past.
I'm fine with Sebine being trained in the Jedi ways without a connection to the force, not only because it's interesting to have a mandalorian with that kind of edge, but also because it was done before. General Grievous was trained to duel with four lightsabers at a time and was a formidable opponent despite having no noticeable connection to the force.
Yah man. I've been saying this since day one. My dude can HEAR the force, just not USE it (outside of freakishly good luck in combat). I think Sabine will become something similar. Chirrut Imwe could not use The Force. But The Force could use HIM.
@@andyb1653According to Lucas, you know, the guy that came up with the force, everybody has the ability to use it. Chirit certainly could have been using the force - it's impossible as a viewer to say he did or did not. To say he didn't, is simply conjecture.
@@JerryHazard You're slightly off with that. Lucas said everyone has the force, but like a talent, only certain people can actually use the force, and those people can only master that "talent" by training to do it.
@@willfanofmanyii3751 No, sorry. I'm exactly spot on. Here's the quote from an interview in Rinzler's book: Kasdan: The Force was available to anyone who could tap into it? Lucas: Yes, everybody can use it. Kasdan: Not just the Jedi? Lucas: it's just the Jedi who takes the time to do it. Quote "Everybody can use it" You can go ahead and try to quantify that in your own words, but that becomes conjecture very fast. Unless you have a direct quote from him that contradicts it?
I always dislike the "the adversaries use the force so it makes sense for her to use it too to counter them" argument. While yes, they are typically better at surving it's not exactly Gandalf vs the Balrog. Sabine obviously lost her first bout against Shim but it's not like it was as one sided as Reva vs Vader in Obi Wan. Also, this completely ignores specifically the Mandalorians and their history with Jedi. As pointed out in Rebels, most Mando kit was explicitly designed to counter Jedi abilities, evening the playing field and even giving them the advantage. To tie it back to the basketball analogy, it's like thinking back when Michael Jordan played baseball for a bit if the opposing teams said "oh no. We need a former basketball player to be our pitcher because that's the only way to strike him out". Mandalorians changed the game under the Jedi's feet.
I always imagined that most of the non-Jedi heros were slightly more connected to the force than the average citizen. For example: maybe a normal person has a MC of 100 and a Jedi has 5,000 or higher. Maybe characters like Solo, Sabine, and (because it's the only way he makes any sense) Jar Jar, were like 500-1500, enough to feel something, to hear it calling, but not enough to truly wield the force.
I guess this means Sabine is officially the newest member of the Disaster Lineage: 900-Year-Old Muppet> Sith Lord and Separatist Leader> Jedi Who Retained Identity After Death> Space Jesus with the High Ground> Chosen One> Ex-Jedi with the Daughter’s Life Force> Descendant of Tarre Vizsla and Former Wielder of the Darksaber> I wonder who’ll be next.
To be fair to Sabine, there is at least one precedent in the star wars universe for a non-/minimal force sensitive who was capable of wielding a light saber with decent enough skill to survive squaring off against a jedi. Jarael in the Knights of the Old republic comics. Likewise I seem to recall at least one book where a non-jedi with minimal talent showed off to several jedi that he could wield the force through training. But as kind and complimenting Luminara's words were in return....it's quite obvious that his efforts were little more than a mouse flexing his muscles opposite of a lion. That said (and I am going off my memory to recall bits I read ages ago) Jarael's force training was dropped as soon as it turned out that she really was non-/minimal force sensitive and that those abilities were in fact those of Demagol. As it turned out she was really that good of warrior, and unfortunately had been forced by her previous experiences to become that good! In regards to Sabine's training, there is a "huge" number of "force non-sensitives" who proved themselves perfectly capable of defeating jedi in close combat...and Mandalorians (for example Pre Vizsla, Jango & Bobba Fett) were one the more successful groups. So rather than force training she ought to go back to her roots and study her predecessors and perhaps other groups and individuals, especially since she has access to an actual jedi to criticize such sources of information (and Ashoka's own memories since she would know which and how non-jedi came the closest to killing her and her fellow jedi)
My take is that this it could lead in an interesting direction. For example: - Ahsoka is just wrong, and Sabine isn't force sensitive. But the training has some benefit in some aspect that wasn't foreseen and doesn't hinge on being force-sensitive. - The whole thing is a ruse for some ulterior motive that will be revealed later on. But I don't have much hope. £10 says that Sabine taps into her force-sensitivity at a plot-pivotal moment. She has (or had, in Rebels) enough character and skills. Why does she need to be a Jedi? It just cheapens the whole thing if that's where this leads.
My three issues are simple. 1) it won't matter. At the magic moment she will just 'gain' it along with the mastery of it to defeat her foe at the end of the season. 2) Being a Jedi isn't required to be an important character. 3) she can use a lightsaber and she can be good at it. She has her mandalorian toys which would really help in a fight and the armor to protect her. 4) bonus round) Why does it matter? The force is more than waving a hand and doing mind tricks. It is training, will, spiritual. It is why Luke learned to not to give into hatred. It is why Rowan freemaker focused on his talents and his craft. It is why Kanan let himself die knowing that his sacrifice would save the world and cripple the efforts of the empire. The force is more than a fancy super hero power. And that is why some people like me get annoyed by it... Because we fully expect that in the end... She will just need to 'believe in herself' to then get god mode unlocked leaving all that training useless and A time filler. In a vacuum it might not be bad... But with the Disney formula we are waiting for the mess to reveal itself.
Doesn't sound like issues when you're actually giving critiques and expectations. 1. She actually does have the Force, and has more aptitude than a regular person (Ahsoka herself hints at it). Now how much of that aptitude depends on her, but we know (from the snippets given), that she's on the cusp of using at least the most basic Force Abilities). 2. That has never been a requirement. Look at Han, or Chewie, or Lando in the OT. Basically nobodies, yet were major influences for the entire franchise. 3. Combining some Force skills (precognition, discipline), with her Mando weaponry could make her the most powerful Mando since her ancestor, Tarre Viszla. If you don't count our little green friend of course. 4. Exactly right. The Force is beyond even what the Jedi or Sith could imagine. The Nightsisters for example make it look like sorcery, and witchcraft.
Yeah but before that, he did a blood transfusion with Grievous and Sifo Dyas as a failed experiment to make Grievous Force Sensitive, and exploited his hatred of the Jedi so he could become a frightful Jedi Killer.
Someone hasn't watched Rebel's properly. That show makes a good job at selling Sabine as a low level Force Sensitive who will take a lot of work to get to a basic level.
George Lucas apparently stated that everyone has the Force, but M-cells are a way to determine the range of sensitivity. The higher the count, the greater the natural aptitude. However, looking at what happened between Anakin (the prodigy) and Obi-Wan (the hard worker/average Jedi) ... M-cells don't matter that much.
What I’m hoping (though, not holding my breath) is that Sabine’s training is just a way to prepare her for fighting other Force users in the same way that Grievous was trained in the use of lightsabers by Dooku. This makes far more sense than “if you believe hard enough, you, too can be a Force user.” One thing that bothered me with the OT & REALLY with the ST was the insinuation that just because the Jedi order was wiped out, there were no other Force users; there had to have been plenty of Jedi who made it through Order 66 who were still Force connected & probably taught others. Additionally, there were likely many who weren’t destined to be Jedi, but were attuned to the Force. As much as I dislike TLJ, I thought Broom Boy was a nice touch; he probably learned to manipulate the Force growing up, maybe not knowing what he was doing, exactly, but just knew how to do it. In the way that all thumbs are fingers, but not all fingers are thumbs, all Jedi are Force users, not all Force users are Jedi.
I thought Lucas made it clear that midiclorians is what helps you sense the force. He didn’t say every being has these symbiotic creatures in their blood.
The closest thing I remember to Sabine begin force sensitive is when she training with the dark saber. She said when she was training with it the second time, that was getting easier to wield and it was explained to her that she was connecting to the crystal inside the saber.
Hey Thor, I just want to know your thoughts on yet another person in Disney Star Wars surviving a blow from a lightsaber directly into their internal organs? We have had dark side users capable of losing limbs (or nearly half their body in the case of Maul), but we are approaching completely different territory when it comes to people surviving the very same injury that killed Qui-Gon. Do you think this degrades what makes a lightsaber special?
Why exactly a lightsaber should be deadly if it just went through without hitting vital organs? The real question is why trained fighters don't finish their job.
I find it funny how all of the internets wants to have this conversation now, and not when Kenobi pulled it repeatedly with much flimsier excuses. At least here we have someone to give first aid and haul her to the hospital. Plus it sets up a main character's development using an antagonist as a measuring stick, unlike Kenobi where it was just a twist for the sake of one.
@@mpnuorvawell, there was an understanding than Kenobi was bad so people focused on other more pressing negatives like butchering Kenobi... Filoni repeating something from a hack writer doesn't inspire confidence
That was because Kenobi sucked on so many levels that all anyone could do was laugh at the absurdity. The new show, however, is not as full of absurdities. It's just not great as a show, so seeing the ridiculousness again, made worse by Sabine being okay again so quickly, stands out more.
@@Strongpoint_S Sabine was impaled through vital organs, from the looks of it, it would have destroyed parts of her intestines, liver, and potentially even her lung. Fixing someone’s insides is a lot different than replacing a limb, they didn’t even use bacta. It was extraordinary similar to the way that Qui-Gon died, and there is no good reason they couldn’t have just had Shin cut off her arm instead. It would have made her character more interesting, contributed to her growth, made the villains look competent, and, most importantly, it wouldn’t diminish Qui-Gon iconic death.
Sabine just needs to connect with the force "enough" to be able to predict her opponents moves, be calm when fighting and similar... that's more than enough IMHO for the story, if she starts lifting mountains of rocks like Rey it'll be such a disappointment
Hey Thor I had an idea of Sabine training to become even better even though her skill using the force is lacking. I imagine her being like Rock Lee in Part one of the Naruto series where he had no talent to be a ninja but kept training and became a good fighter even without having the abilities that the others had. I can see Sabine being in a similar way. What are your thoughts?
My view of the Force (which might well be wrong; I don't know all the lore ever) is that since everybody is connected to the Force everybody is Force Sensitive to some degree and even uses it subconsciously. A politician might add a tiny bit of extra persuasion to a speech by by unknowingly tapping into the Force, or a bounty hunter might get a draw a split second faster than his opponent. Obviously the strength of that ability varies wildly between your average Joe and a Jedi Master. But those good at what they do inevitably use a bit of Force to get an edge. Since Sabine is good at fighting and art she probably has unwittingly been using the Force all the time. Through her training she should be able to use the Force in the fields she is talented in consciously and more targeted, thus maximizing the results. She of course will never pull Star Destroyers out of orbit, but she can probably get decently good at using the Force in those fields and might even be able to achieve minor Force feats in others after long years of training. If she gets much stronger (outside of specific things) than moving the cup I'll be real disappointed. Edit after watching the Video: Most of the points I make are made in the Video, so I might not be so far off. Midichlorians are Heroin.
and your view of the force is wrong. youre either force sensitive or you arnt. thats been established in starwars lore for decades. theyve shit all over the lore by suggesting anyone can become a jedi or that people without force sensitivity can suddenly develop it out of nowhere. all because they want to turn sabine into some overpowered woke girlboss who will end up diminishing ezra bridger as a character.
@@Khobai and yet you’re wrong, George has even said since that the force resides in all things everyone can tap into it. So no you’re wrong. Some are just way more powerful then others. Just because someone doesn’t make an object float doesn’t mean they don’t have the force.
@@joshbourne9679 the force resides in all living things but not all things living can use the force. you have to be force sensitive to use the force. you have no clue how the force works lmao. stfu sabine becoming a jedi is almost as ridiculous as her still being alive.
@@Khobai Force Sensitivity clearly isn't an on/off matter. Even among Jedi there is a wide spectrum of ability. It makes no sense for their being that spectrum and then just a cut off point below which you are completely insensitive to the Force. The Jedi Order only trained those with peak ability for practical reasons, but there are plenty of people (likely way more than there are Jedi) who could use minor Force powers after some training.
Personally i would have her train in MANDALORIAN arts. Boba didn't fear any Jedi. "Im enjoying the View, Leave us Jedi... Pray that we not meet again..."
My take on the midichlorean thing: They’re mitochondria. And, in reality, they’re separate life forms that symbolically inhabit your cells. Now, life is what generates the energy that we call the Force. Therefore, the more midichloreans you have in you, the more life you have in one place, and thus the stronger the Force is concentrated in you. It’s like a radio antenna. The more you have, the stronger the signal becomes and the easier it gets to manipulate it.
Part of me hopes that Sabine ends up failing at using the Force, and embraces that. Show that you don't need to be a Jedi to stand alongside the Jedi. It seems like some of the fans, and creators require a character to be a Force User in order to matter. Forgetting about great characters like Han, Chewie, Lando, the Clones, Zeb, Hera, and all the droids.
If you mean by "fail" as in her not really being able to use telekinesis and the more common uses of the Force, then I'm all for that too. She only needs precognition and being able to listen to the Will of the Force, and that would make her the deadliest Mando-Jedi since Tarre Viszla.
Sabine was always borderline Force Sensitive. There were too many scenes (and other bits) in Rebel's that showed this: 1. She's a descendant of Tarre Viszla, the First Mando-Jedi. 2. She found the Dark Saber, which was originally in Maul's possession, basically out of nowhere. 3. When initially Saber training with Ezra, two Convors watched on (rep. Kanan and Ezra), then a 3rd appears a little away to watch too (likely rep. Sabine). Kanan also specifically states that Sabine is "blocked." 4. The Bendu (a powerful Force entity of balance) has a minor interaction with her - she kicks his foot, and he eventually stirs. She doesn't realise this and walks off. Then he looks back at her. 5. When Ezra is called by the Loth Wolves, Sabine also partially hears the call. No one else can (since Kanan is gone, it would mean Ezra is the last Force User in the group. If Sabine can hear a Force call, then she must have some aptitude.) So... anyone saying Sabine was never Force Sensitive has never watched Rebels. She certainly is... just not at the same level as a gifted user like Ezra, or even a seasoned Knight like Kanan.
Watched Rebels repeatedly. You're seeing what you want to see. Did you say this years ago when the show was out? No, you're saying this now after Disney made the illogical decision to try to turn Sabine into a Jedi. NO ONE has even suggested Sabine could use the Force before now.
It makes sense that the way Ahsoka would try to train any sort of apprentice would be very much informed by the Jedi way of training because that's how she learned. You could also argue that Jedi training might have value even to those who would never learn to use the force in the way Jedi do because it contains a useful ideology and worldview, teaches patience and self-discipline as well as refined styles of combat and more.
Have to watch the 3rd part, and I have not seen the characters before Ahsoka series. But ... in my views there's a distinction between force users (and you can see it even with the Sith). There are those that use it as a tool (mostly in combat) and there are those that can actually "see" the force around them (Qui Gon, Kenobi, Luke, Vader ...). I don't know how to describe the difference properly. I think Sabine will make the first type not the second ...
So you've never seen Ahsoka prior to this series? Or just the Rebel's characters shown? Either way, probably would be best if you watch Rebel's to get a better understanding. And you're correct in some sense. Sabine won't see and feel the Force like prodigies, but she can still see and feel it. Episode 1 shows this with Sabine having visions, while sleeping.
I hope that Sabine never quite gets to a Jedi level. That way she’ll always be the underdog. If she all of the sudden becomes just as powerful as Luke or even Rey, then it will feel like she just turned on god mode. It won’t be exciting because we know she’ll win easily.
Filoni doesn’t understand how the force works! Sabine has never shown any signs of force sensitivity because she doesn’t have the required midi chlorian count! Therefore, Ahsoka trying to teach Sabine how to use the force is just flat out stupid!
I was watching the video and was thinking about why I dislike Sabine as a padawan. And I think the two main reasons are: She was already way to good at so many things as a teenager in Rebels that I don't think adding force powers is really doing anything. I would even argue it takes something away from her, since she was a young Mandalorian with a bit of a different mindset/outlook especially compared to the Mando series (which I also thought wasn't treating alot of characters well in season 3, but that is another story). Sidenote: I really loved the story arcs for non-force characters in the Star Wars MMO (Star Wars: The Old Republic) - It hought they were super interesting, and showed those characters with their own skills can be very intriguing. Not everyone needs the force, heck, I'd argue having less Force Users is actually good to make them stand out a bit more. Having more of them and having more people swinging around light sabres basically brought us to the current state where wounds from them somehow don't kill anymore. And that doesn't make sense in the slightest, unless it actually is just a scratch or your limb got injured (your blood would still boil from the heat and would cause more harm but at lest there it doesn't feel as bad) The second big reason is her frustration and well mindset. Just look at the scene where she asks why they jump out of hyperspace that far away, she gets a real answer, factual and just roles her eyes. Combine that with her frustration and negative mindset and you have a prime candidate for falling to the dark side. Ahsoka especially SHOULD know that, so it doesn't add up to me why she does it. Or at least: does it in a way that she does. To me, she should tell her what she wants Sabine to be, or tell her what the goal is, to make her understand - Ahsoka in the end should know that even Anakin fell to the dark side due to his emotions, and she should see alot of warning signs in Sabine, but instead she tells her she is doing great, basically telling her what she does and how she does it is good? Just doesn't add up for me personally. The other thing that I feel like is going to happen is that at some point in the show Sabine will magically get awesome with the force, adding another perfect boss character that doesn't really feel right to me. Maybe I am wrong, but I 100% expect Disney to do this at this point, looking at their history and how they write characters, especially since we already know that KK was involved heavily in this show. And we all know that the force is female...
I am in the middle of if I want Sabine to be a jedi or not. I think it would be interesting if she truly has the potential for it. If she does become a full fledged Jedi okay if not I want to see her character growth and where they go with her.
When people say she showed no sings of using the force I would point to the episode of rebels where she solved the jedi temple drawings just because her use of the force is not conventional does not mean she has not used it. I would say if you look hard enough you will find one athlete that can compete with the best despite on paper only having average phyicals and skill proficences. They understand the sport or game in a way that lets them compete even if on paper they should not.
Also George Lucas has mention countless times that everyone has the force yes some are wayyyyy more adept at using it. But if you dedicated your life to the teachings and are taught by a true master of the force there’s a good chance you could at least have some force power. Whether it be minuscule or just decent.
@@donkeysaurusrex7881 I mean if they had been trained by a Jedi master and had studied and learned the ways of the force maybe they would’ve been adept at using it. But han tapped into it without realizing it. Don’t be so cynical loll it makes you seem childish
@@joshbourne9679 Yeah, but if just anyone could learn it if they tried hard enough why on earth would you choose not to? Sure I could move things with my mind, but you know what I ain’t gonna. It’s choosing to crawl your whole life instead of learning to walk.
@@donkeysaurusrex7881 it’s all about discipline. Not everyone wants to become a monk. I wouldn’t wanna give up my family and friends for who knows how long to MAYBE be able to move a cup or get better at dodging. Just because you can learn doesn’t mean you’ll be powerful. I should’ve mentioned that. I doubt Sabine will be a Jedi as mentioned she isn’t even being trained to be one.
@@donkeysaurusrex7881 I mean again there’s no way to know how powerful in the force you’d be. If ur not already attuned to it why waste all ur life learning to maybe get decent at it. When you could get great at doing other things. We’re just seeing a story about someone who is choosing to learn and maybe get sorta ok at it
I feel like Sabine falls into the low force sensitivity category. Someone who does well at certain things. But not strong enough to really use it. I read somewhere that Han Solo was on the low end of this category.
Yeah. Mr. I Make My Own Luck, was on that lower level, but above the typical level for the general population. Same with Lando and Chewie (who might've had a little more). Sabine likely falls into that category.
A massive system order like the Jedi would likely find tons of use for training people that might be force sensitive but not have the talent. They could be used for parts of the system that a Jedi master or Knight wouldn't have time to do. Granted they could just use robots or normies I guess, to keep secrets and stuff. But a base of individuals that have a connection with the Order to do the nitty gritty work would be hugely beneficial.
I liked how Sabine's training scenes in Part 3 made her character more interesting. She persevered despite her struggles and lack of Force powers. Ahsoka recognised that she did not need to be a Jedi to be able to fight with a lightsaber. Ahsoka rejects the idea that only Force users can use lightsabers.
Hey Thor: I like your analogy with basketball. Talent without training or training without talent will only get you so far. But elite talent with delayed training will probably still get you somewhere (such as those basketball players who start in their early teens and still make the NBA or Luke Skywalker who was ready to leave the farm before he discovered his force skills). But, as you say, only elite talent and elite training will get you to the Michael Jordan pinnacle. I also like your point near the end of the video that Sabine is a character who is already well-stocked with talent without adding in the force. In fact, her over-abundance of talent has long made her my least favourite Rebels character. You list some of her achievements, including being a weapons’ expert, a bounty hunter, and an impressive artist. I would add that she’s able to defeat a full-grown Mandalorian man in a physical fight. (Such girl power is baffling to me. I can understand force users' physical abilities can become irrelevant, ala elderly Dooku being able to take out two young and talented Jedi simultaneously. But why would a tiny teenage girl-without the force-be able to beat up a large, Mandalorian-trained, male adult fighter? For that matter, why are all of the non-force-using female fighters in today’s Star Wars-see Bo Katan, The Armorer, Fennec Shand, and Cara Dune-able to win physical fights with equally-trained male fighters? In that part of the galaxy, do men not have a physical advantage over women? Because in this part of the galaxy, we literally separate men from women in not only combat sports but almost all sports. Indeed, while I have no doubt that Gina Carano could beat ME up, how the force is she out-strengthing a Zabrak in a game of tug-of-war combat?) In any case, I always disliked Sabine as a character in Rebels because I thought she was boringly overloaded with talent-as you say, she’s already the Tony Stark of Star Wars (or the Rey of that Star Wars era). And that could be fine: occasionally on earth, we meet a multi-skilled genius, such as Leonardo Da Vinci or Bo Jackson who seem to have talent in more than their fair share of occupations. My objection to Sabine is the show portrays her as an ordinary girl who happens to have had a difficult life and has a few hobbies that make her useful to the Ghost crew. I don’t think they ever acknowledge that she’s a wunderkind (unlike Tony Stark who points it out in that clip you played). The implication to me then is that anyone can be as successful as her if they just put their mind to it, which I think is a cruel lie, because, in reality, most of us cannot master all those things in our teenage years. If the show and the characters in it had just acknowledged that Sabine was a freak of nature, and maybe even admitted that her lack of force skill was a nice bit of balance for her ego, then I think she would have been passable as a character. But she’s too good at everything without admitting it to be realistic and enjoyable. And the fact that Ezra was good at the force did not make him more talented than her: it just made him lucky to have gotten something for free. Without the force, Sabine’s Ezra’s superior in nearly every way. So, to my surprise, I actually find Sabine having some force talent in Ahsoka makes her LESS impressive and thus less annoying as a character design. Maybe now her aptitudes (and ability to beat up men) have more explanation than just girl power. Similarly, for me, Rey being a Palpatine at least redeemed the character design of Force Awakens Rey because we essentially found out in The Rise of Skywalker that Michael Jordan was her dad, so her sudden affinity for jump shots-while still overdone-at least had an explanation.
Ahsoka's character has been exploring the edges of the Jedi since TCW, so honestly I think it's a pretty natural continuation of that to use her story to explore the limits of Force Sensitivity, and how much can be taught to a Force Insensitive apprentice. I guess the problem some people have is either that this seemingly breaks the dicothomy of Sensitivity and Insensitivity, or because after all the BS DT and Kenobi pulled regarding the Force people are leary to any additions Disney makes, particularly when it superficially looks like an excuse for Rey (despite in practice being anything but).
“If you’re worth attempting to train,” I think of as “if you’re worth separating from your family as a baby” or “worth making sure you’re not raised as a dark sider.”
Master Thor, thank you for the very well thought out and rational analysis of what is going on with Sabine in the Ahsoka series. It does bear out what George Lucas has had in the past about the Force, and what you would have said about the Force that surrounds us penetrates us, it holds us together everyone. Everyone is touched by the Force that cannot be denied. Sure she may not be the one Jedi, but to some extent with trading as you so rightly point out with your NBA analogy some modicum of skill could be achieved. I also agree with you that Sabine is well skilled and talented, without having to wield the Force. Certainly not as a Jedi. But I think I points out an excellent thing that may be day. Faloni is doing intentional, and if the rumors of Favre, possibly saying he was gonna quit the Mandalorian if they didn’t get the Ultimate Empress of Evil, Supreme Darth, Kathleen Kennedy to back off, perhaps this is a push back on Rey getting instant Force powers. She essentially did a Vulcan Mind Meld with Kylo Ren and download it his powers to the mind meld just like in the 2009, Star Trek Kirk got the entire background of what happened to Romulus from Spock. A stolen trope. If you were a question of her, having an eight skills wouldn’t have popped up in her time of immense need to wash, he was stranded on the planet by herself, trying to scrape by? Even the most talented of people need to work hard on their skills. And I think that’s what this is about. Happy Labor Weekend and much L🫶🏻VE and RESPECT to Y🫵🏻U and the Lady Naboo. Please do no Labor and enjoy the weekend‼️🫶🏻🫶🏻🫶🏻✊🏼✊🏼✊🏼🎉🎉🎉🦅🦅🦅
Concept doesn’t bother me. I think your analogies make sense. I’m also headcanoning the “midiclorians are attracted to strong force users” explanation!
If they are serious about Sabine becoming a more significant character then she MUST have some level of force sensitivity. She doesn’t need to have high potential at all, but maybe her story arc is simply that she’ll have to overcome her low level of potential and utilize her force powers in more creative ways. That’s would be fascinating to me. But imo Sabine’s story is clearly leading up to a decisive fight with Shin where she overcomes her mental blocks and uses the force. But I don’t believe that Sabine will ever be as strong as a republic era Jedi knight. Sabine was clearly born with a lower connection to the force. Like those Jedi who end up serving the order in other ways rather than being a knight. Sabine could become a really cool and creative Jedi Knight, if done right. Sure, she may never accomplish some of the feats of the Jedi of old, but she can blend the best of her mandalorian heritage and her new Jedi path together.
Im a little worried where the force is going. They're doing the dr strange thing of "Anyone can be a wizard... we only have like 12, but yeh, anyone can use magic. " It feels like it makes the world building feel off if EVERYONE can use telekinesis... why wouldn't you? Especially in worlds full of monsters, aliens, and super villains. I get what theyre going with but it feels like a dnd party... but everyone can be the mage AS WELL AS being their rogue/barbarian/archer etc
The Force was never as One dimensional as you're describing. The most basic use of the Force is feeling its will. That's it. After that is seeing snippets of the future (precognition) and this can be used in combat to predict your opponents moves and make sure you don't hurt yourself in battle. The idea of moving objects, shooting lightning or firing off dark magic is really advanced stuff.
@Cabolt44 true but this has been thrown out by rey who can just do things now. Granted in other media you have luke who used telekinesis in empire without knowing that was a thing in new hope. So clearly jedi can use the force in limited ways or discover new limitations through regular use. But now we found out ANYONE can find that out. There was even a child in last jedi that just uses telekinesis on a broom, no struggle or focusing
Outstanding video! Great points contrasting Sabine and Rey. Now that Sabine joined Baylon, I’m starting to like the show much more. It’s a bold step. Luke and Rey resisted temptation. But this is the story of someone who did not. Interesting and bold choice! Gotta keep watching now!
I think I’d have preferred her to go down the route of using Mandalorian technology to counter force users, such as the bracers that Fenn Rau gave her. Perhaps this is a twist that is yet to come, but I doubt it because it feels like she’s had plenty of time to reach this conclusion in the period between Rebels and Ahsoka.
I agree with a lot of what you said. I always viewed it as, everyone has the potential to use the Force ("The Force resides in all living things"), but they need to train to use it. And like you pointed out, some people are going to have more talent to use it compared to others. I don't know if I agree with your point that midi-chlorians are just happening to be there, since it kind of goes against what Qui-Gon said, and kind of the point of their existence. To me, it seems like it's the biological component organics needed to have access to, or "hear the will of", the Force. But your theory does also explain why Dathan doesn't have the Force and Rey does, so...I don't know how to feel about that. In any case, in regards to Sabine, while I don't like Sabine training to use the Force, it at least finally shows that not anyone can super strong with the Force instantly. Anyone can train for it, but you have to work for it. People who love Rey being a "nobody" seem to forget that Obi-Wan exists, not to mention the thousands of prequel era Jedi. Also, I leave a nod to the book Heir to the Jedi, where Luke spends the majority of the book trying to teach himself to use the Force, and struggles throughout most of it since, well, it should be a challenge, especially without a teacher.
Sorry, if everyone can use the Force, there's nothing special about it or being a Jedi. There's use the Force....and then there's USE THE FORCE. A Jedi or someone fighting in sword combat against a Force wielder like Shin has to be able to USE THE FORCE. Sabine is going to somehow get to that point in two days and beat Shin at some point. It's just going to be another groan moment of Disney Star Wars screwing something up. More power to people who want to roll with it, but it's Disney crapping on Star Wars again. Lucas did not mean what they are making him out to have meant. And Thor...when you're going to the sequel trilogy to justify things... don't, lol. The only way the sequel trilogy can help star wars is if it's retconned out of existence.
See, the whole thing everyone misses are that there is clearly levels or amounts of aptitude when it comes to the Force. Therefore, while not everyone can be super-powerful, there can be -some- level of use. Even something as minor as honing senses or precognition. Finn was shown to have a form of awareness. The Jedi had their standards for admittance into the Order, and now we are seeing that perhaps it was too rigid and that maybe raw talent isn’t enough to be a Jedi. In Legends, there are examples of this like Tionne. Could we be seeing a redefinition of what being a Jedi truly means?
Not really. Not only has she never shown aptitude for the Force, she was just fine as a character as a Mandalorian. Her becoming a Jedi just seems tacked on and unnecessary. As a Mandalorian, she's capable of facing off against dangerous foes, even Force sensitive ones. It makes even less sense for Ahsoka to train her, since she herself isn't a Jedi, and wouldn't train Grogu.
Thor Skywalker, that the force is everywhere in everything, that's ok, but everyone becoming a Jedi is absurd; if everyone is special, no one is. Jedi are special because there is very few of them. It was a stupid decision to try to make Sabine a Jedi, and the writers of this new series are so incompetent that she probably will exhibit signs of a Jedi before the end of this season. Why make her a Jedi, she was already a very interesting character in Rebels; they should have started with this version of Sabine, the one at the end of Rebels. 🤔
But it isn't just that you need to have the ability and a midichlorian level that is enough to get the sensibility. Otherwise there is no point training. You can't train your M-count. The midichlorians choose their host.
Sabine already has more training than Rey ever had Rey is a Rey (Mary Sue) while I hate no utterly despise the idea of Sabine using the force at least she's being trained unlike that worthless excuse of a character who's so poorly written executed and handled she single handedly ruined the Rey Trilogy (Sequel Trilogy)
I personally saw nothing wrong with Sabine as an expert on explosives and guns. We saw how brutally effective the clones were with Jedi support - the sword and shield tactic Rex described. The Jedi acts as a shield from blaster fire and lightsabers, while the clones act as a sword, dealing most of the actual damage with their blasters and grenades. This tactic makes it so each member can fully use their strengths, while compensating for the weaknesses of the other. Why could it not work here? Ahsoka acting as bait while Sabine flies around with her jetpack, shooting and blowing up the distracted enemies? Hell, we have even seen characters like Jango Fett and Can Bane, who have held their own and even beaten Jedi occasionally, all without any Force powers at all. If there is anything I have learned from Prequels, it is that leaving the security of the galaxy in the hands of a very limited number of "chosen people", capable as they may be, can be a very bad idea.
Hey Thor I hate to bring up video games but ...This exact same thing happened in a Star Wars online game. The jedi path was rare and everyone wanted to be one. So they made it just one of the classes you could pick at the start of the game. All of a sudden, there were jedi everywhere and it stopped being special. There was no community of different skills anymore and the players lost interest and the game was shut down soon after. One of the hotteat games out went sownhill fast because they took what was special out of being a jedi. "If everyone is soecial then nobody is"
Dave is probably just avoiding the word "midichlorian" because of how much casuals hate it, but saying that "everyone has the Force" is basically acknowledging the same thing. Having the "talent" in this case just means having a higher midichlorian count. I think people are just reacting a bit negatively to it, cause it kind of reminds us of what TLJ was trying to say about anyone being able to become a Jedi. The difference is that TLJ didn't specify anything, to the point that it could be interpreted anyone being able to become extremely powerful with no training at all, regardless of natural talent. Which is not how the Force works. Ahsoka, at the very least, is making it very clear that Sabine is probably not gonna be able to become a fully fledged Jedi, and will have to find her own way to do things with proper training, because the lack of natural talent is a barrier she can't possibly overcome completely. I've honestly always been curious to know what happens if a regular person were to be trained as a Jedi, and if done correctly, we might see that in this show. That said, if Sabine later on becomes very powerful and starts using the Force like any regular Jedi, that's when I will call it bullshit and reject it. But so far, it hasn't broken any rules (or at least not blatantly).
Sabine has that Tarre Vizsla blood in her veins, she's House Vizsla in Rebels S2 Prptector of Concord Dawn, maybe it kinda awoke in Sabine while with Kanan, Ezra, & wielding two lightsabers in her career, & helping to unlock the Lothal Jedi Temple. Maybe she can train for years or more & move a pebble. Idk just imo PS Tarre Vizsla is the first Mando Jedi over a thousand years before the Clone Wars Also I don't want Sabine being like Luke in ANH or ESB, that's too much for my suspension of disbelief. I'm okay with Sabine training for years or even more & moving a pebble. Or just having a bad feeling about things or better shot accuracy, a bit of extra strength & speed. Idk just me
I'm an Autistic Super Savant and was able to pick up the arts very easly but I still needed to train and put effort in to be great at each field, good even to begin with... So I agree whole heartly with this video.
Her training checks out lol especially in comparison to the sequels. Everyone can learn to interact with the force to one degree or another. You just dont become a black belt over night.
- Do I care that she has minor force sensitivity. No. - Do I care that she has been getting trained by Ahsoka (both lightsaber training and in the force). No - Do I care about her being given the title of Jedi (should it really happen etc). Yes. That is supposed to be a sacred title which is central to the SWs universe. Think of who (main character wise) has been given it in the films - Luke, OWK, Yoda, QGJ, Anakin, Rey, Ben Solo. Theyve all been the main protagonist or their teacher - and their force sensitivity is central to their character arc. If Sabine is given the title then its probably going to cheapen it. In the same way as retroactively giving it to Leia did. Leia was a leader and a diplomat. Giving her force powers and lightsaber skills was uneccessary.
To me it makes perfect sense that Sabine or anyone else can learn to use the force to some limited degree. What doesn't make sense is why bother to train her if all she can do is learn it to a very limited degree? As with the basketball analogy, most people, especially after reaching adulthood as Sabine has, won't bother training their basketball skills hour after hour, day after day because they already know it's impractical due to their upper limit being beneath the threshold to make a living as a basketball player. This is why it seems likely that Sabine will end up actually being very proficient with the force, otherwise the training is a waste of time.
3:00 It also takes a whole lot of luck. How many great players tryout and how many spots are open? It’s the best of the best competing for that spot. And Jordan didn’t have it from the start. He was cut from his high school basketball team. And his first nba championship win was seven years after he debuted. Reminds me of Obi-Wan in a way. He wasn’t talented at first but he was determined to be a Jedi. And he did, some even consider him to be the ideal Jedi. Anyways yes hard work does pay off. Look what Jimmy Butler did with the bench vs the starting lineup. 😂
I straight up scoffed when I saw the trailer revealing her with a lightsaber It was obvious what they wanted to do, and it still feels fake I wouldn't be surprised if she straight up rebuilds the darksaber with nothing but a bucket of chicken at this point just to make disney pat themselves on the back from fanservice
I don’t want her to be a force user per Se. If she were like someone who had some “force” ability to be a better fighter that can sense things before they happen - I’m cool with that. Her learning how to fight with a blade I think is good in the sense who knows how strong Baylon ant Shin are. They booyasted guards in the first episode with ease, I doubt her just shooting a pistol at them he’s going to do much, even as a Mandalorian. She has a better fighting chance of learning, basic swordsmanship, and trying to counterattack in that regard, or at least use it as a method of fighting, and use her blaster as a primary option. I suppose my perspective is more of that like avatar, the last Airbender uncle Iroh tells Zuko, even as a fire bender, it’s wise, to learn how other benders fight, and borrow their bending to make your own bending even stronger - because only using one source makes you stale. Learning another form of Defense and fighting only enhances her abilities as a well-rounded fighter. And she’s working for it. But I’m entitled to be wrong.
I appreciate the insight Thor, my main issue with Sabine's arc in Ahsoka is not the how but the why, as in why are we seeing thus, what's the point? In my opinion her arc is a nice idea in theory, the problem is the execution.
I haven't watched Rebels, and nor do I intend to, but I imagine that proficiency with a lightsaber might at least suggest to a master that the wielder is somewhat force sensitive. Jedi training presumably covers everything one can do with a lightsaber, including deflecting blaster bolts. If Sabine shows some proficiency with a lightsaber then I'm really not surprised that Ahsoka may feel like she has more to offer. So I'm fine that there is at least some force training, and that it's only something small to begin with like trying to move a cup into her hand. The better thing that the show does now is showing Sabine actually training and, more importantly, failing as she's doing so. And not only that, but she's not a crack shot immediately when she takes her tail gunner position later in the episode. She's flawed already. She is no MaRey SuePalpaSkywalkertine, she is only human who is imperfect. I'm already rooting for her more to win than I ever rooted for Rey because she at least shows that she's determined to persevere despite her shortcomings. That scene alone gives me a little hope for her character in this show, after being disillusioned with the whole thing following the horrible introductory episodes
As a kid I thought of the force as being a part of a religion that anyone could belong to, but you can’t lie to yourself to belong to it. This is because I don’t think anything was stopping Luke from lifting his Xwing out of the swamp. I also base this on a real world parallel with Christians who say they feel the Holy Spirit compared to the ones who actually do. Everyone, religious and not, can tell the difference between the two types of people even though there is nothing physically preventing both from having a connection to the Holy Spirit
Well, when you make loosey goosy rules, why not? Why not make Asoka a living force planet that transcends the world between worlds? There ya go Filoni, your next plot beat for Rebels/Asoka season 3, Thrawn Planet.
To be fair to Disney, they've realised that general audiences wont go for story based shows(lack of the force). Why everyone seems to becoming force sensitive. Also the reason why the force keeps getting more powerful. Marvel ruined audiences ability to watch shows and movies with no dopamine overload. I'd expect a lot force sensitive characters tbh
They realized that TOO LATE!!! If they were smart Luke's school would have never been blown up, and we would have had thousands of new Jedi by now. Now they have the worst of both worlds, while actively sabotaging any plot points that Luke could have had, like training Grogu. Instead they do this stupid shit in the most Disney way possible by breaking thousands of lore rules just to get to the result that was already there, which they just failed to use.
The fact that she IS training makes her better than Rey... however I still believe that it really doesn't make sense for Sabine to be a Jedi, or for Ahsoka to take her on as an apprentice. Even in Rebels her and Sabine rarely interacted with one another, if ever. It would've been much better if Sabine had stayed a normal Mandalorian, and perhaps introduce a new character to be Ahsoka's apprentice - perhaps even making it so its Kanan and Hera's son.
This. This exactly. Sabine has her own strengths aplenty. A logical story arc for her woud be to make up for her previous failing - to compensate for the weapons that harmed her people, she should come up with technology that would help them, e.g. make Mandalore habitable again after its burning. Plus, I'm not sure I like this idea of waving the lightsabre being a stand-in for psychotherapy to open up and understand oneself - it made sense while Darksabre was in her possession to learn to wield it and get that extra added bonus, but doing the same with Ahsoka now feels like a step back, a page from GoT, if you will, with Sansa becoming a victim yet again.
Id like to see a series about the force sensitive kid that picked up the broom with his powers back in the casino planet in the last Jedi only kinda interesting thing about the Disney SW to me
Well said. I'm okay with Sabine training. I'll have a big problem with her Force abilities suddenly "coming online" though like a switch. I hope they never show up honestly
As long as Sabine won't show ridiculous force skills, I am absolutely fine with the idea that a very experienced and knowledgeable force user like Ashoka can train a motivated random nobody to a decent level. But I am not sure that Sabine's character needs this. Best Mandalorians should be able to defeat low-level force users by skill alone. I want jetpacked Sabine to kick the blond's ass using |Mandalorian gear, not win a lightsaber duel... But I expect it will be a duel.
I like the analogy, it’s like me for example I’m not a good swimmer and don’t have the talent for it. If I was trained on an Olympic level I would build up the strength and knowledge of how to swim, but I would never be as good as an Olympic or pro swimmer
The difference in training and talent is that the person with talent has the inherent instinct/intuition for utilizing the necessary skills. Training is still necessary to use the skills effectively, and talent makes that use automatic in the moment. A person who only relies on training can learn all the same elements but will always be just that bit behind because they still have to actively process a circumstance and make a decision on how to use the skills.
Sabine already got more training than Rey ever did.
It helps to have a Master who actually WANTS to train you
@@andyb1653 Well clearly that was not the case until episode 2.
@@willaumepwell she had the special gift from her now known bloodline & meaning she had high midichlorian count.
@@zigurdur92that doesn't mean anything. Ahsoka even says talent gets you so far. Luke says talent without training is nothing.
Super good point!
I hope Sabine decides not to be a Jedi but maybe just use a lightsaber when she needs to. I also agree that she’s shown to be capable as a mandalorian so she really doesn’t need to be talented at everything.
Yet, hard work can and routinely does eclipse talent. Especially if the talented do not apply themselves. Sabine (as Ahsoka says), needs the discipline to open herself up to achieving her own potential. Then combining that with her masterful combat abilities (and usual Mando tricks), and she could be one of the most deadly combatants in the current era of Star Wars.
Rey was trained by leia for a year inbetween episode 8 and 9 . Losers
@@ChosenOne-il4bm look at that you're in another comment section acting like lazy storytelling is good repeating yourself even copy and paste and somehow other people are losers lol ❤
Even though Sabine having Force Sensitivity feels out of nowhere, but her getting more training is more believable than Rey.
She was trained by Kanan to use the DarkSaber in combat and she was quite good at it; they should have stopped there.
It would make more sense or just be better if she was blocked from the Force for some reason.
Though Ahsoka saying she wants Sabine to ‘be herself’ once again sounds like classic shallow Disney false propaganda. Unless Filoni actually has a more coherent idea for what’s supposed to be ‘female empowerment’.
@@Age_of_Apocalypse Disney Star Wars doesn’t understand a thing, not even Lightsaber Combat, so that could very easily just be plot.
@@Age_of_Apocalypse She kicks Kanan, who is flying downhill, and then jumps 10 meters from above in front of him - maybe it's just a cartoon, but it totally looks like a force jump or can everyone jump that much? th-cam.com/video/eOEGFnrDfpM/w-d-xo.htmlsi=nEtpAUblIwL_cXl8&t=142
@@teleportedbreadfor3daysDave Filoni does
It doesn't make complete sense to me but I can easily accept it knowing she'll have to work for it.
She struggles, so unless it clicks at some point and she gets super powerful I think there is nothing wrong with it.
Lucas said so :p
Given that Sabine will likely have to face off with real force-yielding baddies, it a very good idea to get all the training you can just to stay alive until Ahsoka can bail your ass out.
Rey was trained by leia for a year inbetween episode 8 and 9 . Losers
@@ChosenOne-il4bmso why couldn't we see this training? why did it have to be off screen? Also Ray literally downloaded somebody else's training without any effort but I guess we should ignore this because she finally got training off screen somewhere. Calling people losers because they want better storytelling is what a loser would do.
I wouldn’t mind one moment where she force pushed Shin next ep during their fight, but that’s it, and she says to Ahsoka for one moment she was able to focus, but she has to train to do it again. But if she just force pushes her then can instantly use the force perfectly and Ahsoka training isn’t needed anymore then I’ll have a problem cause that’s exactly Rey
We all will at that point. I'm pretty sure Filoni is going for that angle. One crucial moment and she Force pushes Shin to make her escape (using her weaponry as cover).
I’m almost done re-watching rebels and yeah, sure Sabine being trained is kind of weird but she did receive training in rebels so it does make sense much more than Ray ever did…
Rebels was just training to wield the Darksaber though, there was never any suggestion of force sensitivity.
@matttrevers2552 actually Kanan mentions the quote Yoda does in Empire about the force being in all things but Sabine has/is cut off from it when training her.
Exactly, Sabine has actually undergone onscreen training and is still willing to learn. Making her a far better character and even if she doesn’t have the force, the Jedi teaching can improve her skills.
God, I had an argument with a guy on Reddit about when it comes to the Force. He straight up argued that training is not important at all when it comes to The Force and that you just need to be open to it and trust in The Force.
What made it frustrating is they was apparently older than me and say the original Trilogy in theaters as a teen.
I appreciate they are making Sabine work for it. I was against it at fist, but now I want her to succeed.
I’m happy that we’re gonna see her work for it at least! And not be super powerful. And look she already lost a lightsaber fight!
@guyincle126 I mean tons of people have lost fights, unless ur head is taken off or ur split down the middle I think you can live. Maul got sliced in half and still came back. If you can suspend your disbelief for that then a simple jab into the liver isn’t gonna kill anybody.
@@joshbourne9679 Maul is really the worst example here. He was clearly dead in TPM, and there was nothing ambiguous there. He was literally cut in half and fell down a bottomless pit. They brought him back because Filoni loved that character and thought the character had potential that wasn't used in TPM. But if Maul can survive being cut in half, being stabbed shouldn't be worse than getting stung by a mosquito. Which it really shouldn't - why couldn't Sabine lose a hand instead? Or a leg, for a change.
@@countluke2334 I mean Lucas revealed later on maul would’ve been the main antagonist of the sequel trilogy he was making so wrong :)
@@countluke2334 and again being stabbed unless directly in the chest area isn’t really that big of an issue. Especially with Star Wars medical stuff. And Sabine had access to it immediately. Qui-Gon didn’t die immediately after he was stabbed he died like 20 minutes later after obi fought maul and then sliced him in half. Maybe if he had access to being healed within 5 minutes he would’ve lived
@@countluke2334 but all the reva and grand Inquisitor stabbing going on in obi wan was terrible there was no good excuse for that stuff there
I suppose Sabine training to use the Force feels weird is because it always felt like it was an exclusive club. A bit like becoming a mage in other series. You're either capable, or you're not.
Of course then I remember that in Knights of the Old Republic 2, you can train almost your entire crew as Jedi.
That being said, I like that they're showing her struggling through training instead of just being instantly good at the Force without any effort. Feels so much more believable since Anakin and Luke (the Chosen One and his son) had to go through training too.
Anything makes more sense than Rey Palpatine
Agreed.
Is it less insulting than ‘Rey Skywalker’?
@@teleportedbreadfor3days no, it’s equally insulting.
I can’t believe it’s been nearly 10 years since the force awakens came out and people still bash Rey myself included. I guess it proves the sequels will never age well…
@@macwelch8599 I can drink to that
I think using the Force is a bit like being a musician.
Some have a natural ear for it, some are prodigies, and others seem completely tone-deaf and rhythmless at first glance. But, with enough practice, exposure, education and experimentation, damn near ANYONE can pick up an instrument and mash out a simple song. Not everyone will be The Beatles, Taylor Swift or Metallica, but most people can at least carry a tune if they try.
Great analogy - I agree with you. Jedi simply chose to take children with highest potential to the Temple because they could. I mean a whole galaxy worth of children was there for them to choose from. Obviously it made sense to train the prodigies, not the okay-ish ones. But based on the prequel, force sensitivity is a scale as you pointed out as well. There are people who were not talented enough for Jedi training, but could still be considered somewhat force sensitive. The quote from the episode about not being as good as the other padawans certainly says to me that Sabine fits in this category.
Exactly right. Talent can only get you so far. Your talent is like... getting a headstart, but can be heavily wasted if not nurtured. Yet someone with supposedly "no talent" (like Sabine here apparently), can still succeed with a large amount of effort.
It's like the old adage: nature vs nurture. What is natural can be hampened or grown depending on how it is nurtured. Or what isn't natural could become natural through hard work and effort.
I would argue that they just chose the ones with the most talent becuase it is just easier and you have to invest less time and money. @@z.z.1876
I would point out that Luke wasn't shown to have any level of force sensitivity until the exercise he did with obi-won in the millennium falcon. We were told he was a good pilot, but he never used the force actively until adulthood when he opens himself up to it. Even then his use of the force in a new hope is very limited. He doesn't start to get truly component with it until he starts training with Yoda. So there is precedent for force powers going unnoticed for a long time. Though I still think it will fit the story for Sabine to never really get good at it, just better then the average person with a little bit of precognition abilities, maybe able to move small objects etc.
And yet we do have prior evidence that Sabine has Force Sensitivity (many Rebel's episodes, her dream of Ezra in Episode 1). It's just... not going to be Luke Skywalker level.
Rey was trained by leia for a year inbetween episode 8 and 9 . Losers
I'm not a fan of Sabine being trained but it doesn't bother me as much as Rey being able to use the Force proficiently with no training whatsoever.
Reason why everyone else hates it.
We know that she at the last episode is just going to close her eyes and get the Disney cheat code unlocked and she gets instant mastery of it.
Training isn't the issue. The issue is we know Disney will make it all meaningless and unlock it all or enough to easily beat her foe.
@@qwefg3Disney? Not Filoni?
@@mpnuorva well he does work for Disney And most things coming out of Disney sucks in one form or another.
I like your basketball analogy. I've always used running a marathon, myself, but basketball is probably even better, since the skill set is a little more multifaceted than running a marathon.
According to Lucas, it's the Midichlorians in your body that actually connect to the Force and are therefore responsible for your manifestation of Force powers. However, I see no reason that the count would need to be fixed and that, by training to let the Force flow, you also increase your Midichlorian count, much like you develop stronger muscles with training.
I always just saw midichlorians are just genetics. Some people are just genetically predisposed to be naturally gifted at some things, but genetics aren't everything. With enough hard work, you can overcome those genetics, and with a lack of it, you can waste those genetics. Same thing applies to midichlorian count.
What I love the most about the new Sabine story arc, is that it gets into the "not force sensitive enough" point that is supposed to be true for the vast majority of the of living beings,as as you point out. I think it also makes sense from Rebels, as it does give a reason for her to be so good at fighting, and how she could "beat" Kanan in their lightsaber training fight.
Because of the focus on Ani and Luke, George Lucas' canon never really went into the "force sensitive but not enough" side of the Jedi order. It could have been a huge story arc with Finn in the "sequels", feeling the Force, but not enough to become a Jedi. I am actually really happy that this is a thing, especially with a character like Sabine. It explains so much about how special she is as such a young age, and yet, just the idea of having a weak force sensitive character allows to explain so much about why Anakin is the chosen one, while Yoda or Obi-Wan are not. Not to mention making the way the Force works in Star Wars far more coherent.
Han being so lucky with gambling, such a good pilot, and being so charismatic to be a good smuggler was always seen by most headcannons as "not sensitive enough"
The mainline films didn't address it, but the EU had a construct, the Jedi agricultural Corp for those who were either strong enough in the force to cause problems or be persecuted by their communities, those unable to master their emotions for field service, or those too weak to become a Jedi Knight, Obi-Wan was going to go off to the Agricultural Corp before Qui gonn stepped in and took him as his padawan.
Also in the EU the inquisition was made up of force sensitives who while they wouldn't be powerful Sith or Jedi, their connection to the force allowed them to sense other force users and, combined with a rigid training program, allow them to be deadly opponents to the average Knight.
@@krald8421 yes true, it has been talked a lot about.
@isaiahsmith7123 And that sounds a lot like Dave Filoni (Lucas's Padawan), bringing in those older ideas, and reintegrating them into canon. That Force Sensitivity has always been a scale, and only the exceptional became full fledged Jedi or Sith (if they belonged to those sects).
The training is also a way to keep the system in check and make sure they keep people from using the force turning into a "bad guy". Hence taking them from peoples families at a super young age ans training them to keep control and hyper focus the skillset to be another very powerful individual in the society at large. This training also tempers their insecurities and agression away to not let their emotions get the best of them in the worst way especially when trained. Hence why its so important for ppl to "complete" their training. Its a tenuous situation since they could just be training their own enemies one day if a tragic event occurs.
The sad part is I really liked Daisy Ridley as Rey and wanted them to do right by her, but they didn’t. I am not really digging live action Sabine though.
I really-really liked her... for the first half of the Force Awakens. That movie gave me so much hope for a good sequel and... took most of it away at the end.
The Last Jedi took the rest of the hope away... Funnily enough, the thing that killed it was a desert dweller easily and calmly diving into water... I was like "yep, Mary Sue"
I thought I was the only one having a disconect with seeing animated characters in live action
yeah I understand, I hear a lot of negativity about her and while I agree with some of it, character wise I thought both the actress and the character she played were ok, with potential for more and its really just bad writing that dragged her down along with the Disney Star Wars having a lot of problems and sadly Daisy Ridley/Rey is the face in front of those problems.
@@Strongpoint_Sexactly how i feel, first 2 acts of Force Awakens, shes great. but then they just give her abilities out of nowhere and then refuse to let her fail or have any development.
@@fruitylerlups530That's what's so frustrating about Rey as a character. She just gets given all these skills and abilities that not even Anakin, the Chosen One could ever hope to achieve in a few days (even if the Father granted it to him). Rey was a disservice to Daisy Ridley as an actor. And a middle finger to Star Wars fans.
Wow, that Kanan clip really sums up what they're trying to do with Sabine. I'd forgotten he said that. Great quote, Thor!
That's it in a nutshell. Sabine probably does have force sensitivity, but she can't use it because she's conflicted. Kanan could sense it, and Ahsoka no doubt sees the same thing. Ahsoka wants to help Sabine resolve her conflict so she can reach her full potential, whatever that may be.
Sabine has always been a rebel. Born into a conformist culture, but choosing to express herself with art instead. That's the conflict within her: conformity vs. creativity, discipline vs. chaos. In Rebels she was more creative and chaotic, but hanging around Kanan and Ezra (and presumably having later adventures with Ahsoka) showed her another way. The Jedi practice discipline without losing their individuality.
My guess is Sabine feels like a failure despite accomplishing so much at an early age. Her accomplishments have only led to everyone she cared about (with the exception of Hera and Zeb) dying or disappearing. That's why she didn't want to attend the dedication of the monument that was based on her own artwork, it would have just been a party full of people congratulating her for successes she feels she hasn't earned. Maybe that's why she seemed to be living as a slacker in the radio tower. There was nothing of her in that place except the armor stored under a bench. No inventions or artwork. That's what Ahsoka wants to help her get past.
Awesome Comment
I'm fine with Sebine being trained in the Jedi ways without a connection to the force, not only because it's interesting to have a mandalorian with that kind of edge, but also because it was done before. General Grievous was trained to duel with four lightsabers at a time and was a formidable opponent despite having no noticeable connection to the force.
Chirrut Îmwe is a good example of a non-force user mastering the use of the living force.
Yah man. I've been saying this since day one. My dude can HEAR the force, just not USE it (outside of freakishly good luck in combat). I think Sabine will become something similar.
Chirrut Imwe could not use The Force. But The Force could use HIM.
Oh yeah!! Excellent point
@@andyb1653According to Lucas, you know, the guy that came up with the force, everybody has the ability to use it. Chirit certainly could have been using the force - it's impossible as a viewer to say he did or did not. To say he didn't, is simply conjecture.
@@JerryHazard You're slightly off with that.
Lucas said everyone has the force, but like a talent, only certain people can actually use the force, and those people can only master that "talent" by training to do it.
@@willfanofmanyii3751 No, sorry. I'm exactly spot on. Here's the quote from an interview in Rinzler's book:
Kasdan: The Force was available to anyone who could tap into it?
Lucas: Yes, everybody can use it.
Kasdan: Not just the Jedi?
Lucas: it's just the Jedi who takes the time to do it.
Quote "Everybody can use it"
You can go ahead and try to quantify that in your own words, but that becomes conjecture very fast.
Unless you have a direct quote from him that contradicts it?
I always dislike the "the adversaries use the force so it makes sense for her to use it too to counter them" argument. While yes, they are typically better at surving it's not exactly Gandalf vs the Balrog. Sabine obviously lost her first bout against Shim but it's not like it was as one sided as Reva vs Vader in Obi Wan.
Also, this completely ignores specifically the Mandalorians and their history with Jedi. As pointed out in Rebels, most Mando kit was explicitly designed to counter Jedi abilities, evening the playing field and even giving them the advantage. To tie it back to the basketball analogy, it's like thinking back when Michael Jordan played baseball for a bit if the opposing teams said "oh no. We need a former basketball player to be our pitcher because that's the only way to strike him out". Mandalorians changed the game under the Jedi's feet.
I always imagined that most of the non-Jedi heros were slightly more connected to the force than the average citizen.
For example: maybe a normal person has a MC of 100 and a Jedi has 5,000 or higher. Maybe characters like Solo, Sabine, and (because it's the only way he makes any sense) Jar Jar, were like 500-1500, enough to feel something, to hear it calling, but not enough to truly wield the force.
I guess this means Sabine is officially the newest member of the Disaster Lineage:
900-Year-Old Muppet>
Sith Lord and Separatist Leader>
Jedi Who Retained Identity After Death>
Space Jesus with the High Ground>
Chosen One>
Ex-Jedi with the Daughter’s Life Force>
Descendant of Tarre Vizsla and Former Wielder of the Darksaber>
I wonder who’ll be next.
To be fair to Sabine, there is at least one precedent in the star wars universe for a non-/minimal force sensitive who was capable of wielding a light saber with decent enough skill to survive squaring off against a jedi. Jarael in the Knights of the Old republic comics. Likewise I seem to recall at least one book where a non-jedi with minimal talent showed off to several jedi that he could wield the force through training. But as kind and complimenting Luminara's words were in return....it's quite obvious that his efforts were little more than a mouse flexing his muscles opposite of a lion.
That said (and I am going off my memory to recall bits I read ages ago) Jarael's force training was dropped as soon as it turned out that she really was non-/minimal force sensitive and that those abilities were in fact those of Demagol. As it turned out she was really that good of warrior, and unfortunately had been forced by her previous experiences to become that good!
In regards to Sabine's training, there is a "huge" number of "force non-sensitives" who proved themselves perfectly capable of defeating jedi in close combat...and Mandalorians (for example Pre Vizsla, Jango & Bobba Fett) were one the more successful groups. So rather than force training she ought to go back to her roots and study her predecessors and perhaps other groups and individuals, especially since she has access to an actual jedi to criticize such sources of information (and Ashoka's own memories since she would know which and how non-jedi came the closest to killing her and her fellow jedi)
My take is that this it could lead in an interesting direction. For example:
- Ahsoka is just wrong, and Sabine isn't force sensitive. But the training has some benefit in some aspect that wasn't foreseen and doesn't hinge on being force-sensitive.
- The whole thing is a ruse for some ulterior motive that will be revealed later on.
But I don't have much hope. £10 says that Sabine taps into her force-sensitivity at a plot-pivotal moment.
She has (or had, in Rebels) enough character and skills. Why does she need to be a Jedi? It just cheapens the whole thing if that's where this leads.
My three issues are simple.
1) it won't matter. At the magic moment she will just 'gain' it along with the mastery of it to defeat her foe at the end of the season.
2) Being a Jedi isn't required to be an important character.
3) she can use a lightsaber and she can be good at it. She has her mandalorian toys which would really help in a fight and the armor to protect her.
4) bonus round) Why does it matter? The force is more than waving a hand and doing mind tricks. It is training, will, spiritual.
It is why Luke learned to not to give into hatred. It is why Rowan freemaker focused on his talents and his craft. It is why Kanan let himself die knowing that his sacrifice would save the world and cripple the efforts of the empire.
The force is more than a fancy super hero power.
And that is why some people like me get annoyed by it... Because we fully expect that in the end... She will just need to 'believe in herself' to then get god mode unlocked leaving all that training useless and A time filler.
In a vacuum it might not be bad... But with the Disney formula we are waiting for the mess to reveal itself.
Doesn't sound like issues when you're actually giving critiques and expectations.
1. She actually does have the Force, and has more aptitude than a regular person (Ahsoka herself hints at it). Now how much of that aptitude depends on her, but we know (from the snippets given), that she's on the cusp of using at least the most basic Force Abilities).
2. That has never been a requirement. Look at Han, or Chewie, or Lando in the OT. Basically nobodies, yet were major influences for the entire franchise.
3. Combining some Force skills (precognition, discipline), with her Mando weaponry could make her the most powerful Mando since her ancestor, Tarre Viszla. If you don't count our little green friend of course.
4. Exactly right. The Force is beyond even what the Jedi or Sith could imagine. The Nightsisters for example make it look like sorcery, and witchcraft.
If Ahsoka is just teaching Sabine on how to use a lightsaber I could accept it. Because Count Dooku did the exact same thing with General Grievous.
Yeah but before that, he did a blood transfusion with Grievous and Sifo Dyas as a failed experiment to make Grievous Force Sensitive, and exploited his hatred of the Jedi so he could become a frightful Jedi Killer.
Sabine: "I've been trained in your Jedi arts, by Ahsoka Tano!"
*sprouts 4 arms*
Someone hasn't watched Rebel's properly. That show makes a good job at selling Sabine as a low level Force Sensitive who will take a lot of work to get to a basic level.
I thought the point of the midichlorians was to explain why Force sensitivity is rare.
Yes, that is indeed the point Filoni seems to be exploring.
George Lucas apparently stated that everyone has the Force, but M-cells are a way to determine the range of sensitivity. The higher the count, the greater the natural aptitude.
However, looking at what happened between Anakin (the prodigy) and Obi-Wan (the hard worker/average Jedi)
... M-cells don't matter that much.
What I’m hoping (though, not holding my breath) is that Sabine’s training is just a way to prepare her for fighting other Force users in the same way that Grievous was trained in the use of lightsabers by Dooku. This makes far more sense than “if you believe hard enough, you, too can be a Force user.”
One thing that bothered me with the OT & REALLY with the ST was the insinuation that just because the Jedi order was wiped out, there were no other Force users; there had to have been plenty of Jedi who made it through Order 66 who were still Force connected & probably taught others. Additionally, there were likely many who weren’t destined to be Jedi, but were attuned to the Force. As much as I dislike TLJ, I thought Broom Boy was a nice touch; he probably learned to manipulate the Force growing up, maybe not knowing what he was doing, exactly, but just knew how to do it.
In the way that all thumbs are fingers, but not all fingers are thumbs, all Jedi are Force users, not all Force users are Jedi.
I thought Lucas made it clear that midiclorians is what helps you sense the force. He didn’t say every being has these symbiotic creatures in their blood.
The closest thing I remember to Sabine begin force sensitive is when she training with the dark saber. She said when she was training with it the second time, that was getting easier to wield and it was explained to her that she was connecting to the crystal inside the saber.
Hey Thor,
I just want to know your thoughts on yet another person in Disney Star Wars surviving a blow from a lightsaber directly into their internal organs? We have had dark side users capable of losing limbs (or nearly half their body in the case of Maul), but we are approaching completely different territory when it comes to people surviving the very same injury that killed Qui-Gon. Do you think this degrades what makes a lightsaber special?
Why exactly a lightsaber should be deadly if it just went through without hitting vital organs?
The real question is why trained fighters don't finish their job.
I find it funny how all of the internets wants to have this conversation now, and not when Kenobi pulled it repeatedly with much flimsier excuses. At least here we have someone to give first aid and haul her to the hospital. Plus it sets up a main character's development using an antagonist as a measuring stick, unlike Kenobi where it was just a twist for the sake of one.
@@mpnuorvawell, there was an understanding than Kenobi was bad so people focused on other more pressing negatives like butchering Kenobi... Filoni repeating something from a hack writer doesn't inspire confidence
That was because Kenobi sucked on so many levels that all anyone could do was laugh at the absurdity. The new show, however, is not as full of absurdities. It's just not great as a show, so seeing the ridiculousness again, made worse by Sabine being okay again so quickly, stands out more.
@@Strongpoint_S Sabine was impaled through vital organs, from the looks of it, it would have destroyed parts of her intestines, liver, and potentially even her lung. Fixing someone’s insides is a lot different than replacing a limb, they didn’t even use bacta. It was extraordinary similar to the way that Qui-Gon died, and there is no good reason they couldn’t have just had Shin cut off her arm instead. It would have made her character more interesting, contributed to her growth, made the villains look competent, and, most importantly, it wouldn’t diminish Qui-Gon iconic death.
Sabine just needs to connect with the force "enough" to be able to predict her opponents moves, be calm when fighting and similar... that's more than enough IMHO for the story, if she starts lifting mountains of rocks like Rey it'll be such a disappointment
Hey Thor I had an idea of Sabine training to become even better even though her skill using the force is lacking. I imagine her being like Rock Lee in Part one of the Naruto series where he had no talent to be a ninja but kept training and became a good fighter even without having the abilities that the others had. I can see Sabine being in a similar way. What are your thoughts?
The problem is, I don't see how that can be actually realized. Force users are usually suppposed to be superior fighters in every way by default.
How Ahsoka will end:
Old droid: Who are you?
Sabine: Sabine. Sabine Tano.
Role credits.
My view of the Force (which might well be wrong; I don't know all the lore ever) is that since everybody is connected to the Force everybody is Force Sensitive to some degree and even uses it subconsciously. A politician might add a tiny bit of extra persuasion to a speech by by unknowingly tapping into the Force, or a bounty hunter might get a draw a split second faster than his opponent. Obviously the strength of that ability varies wildly between your average Joe and a Jedi Master. But those good at what they do inevitably use a bit of Force to get an edge. Since Sabine is good at fighting and art she probably has unwittingly been using the Force all the time. Through her training she should be able to use the Force in the fields she is talented in consciously and more targeted, thus maximizing the results. She of course will never pull Star Destroyers out of orbit, but she can probably get decently good at using the Force in those fields and might even be able to achieve minor Force feats in others after long years of training.
If she gets much stronger (outside of specific things) than moving the cup I'll be real disappointed.
Edit after watching the Video:
Most of the points I make are made in the Video, so I might not be so far off.
Midichlorians are Heroin.
and your view of the force is wrong. youre either force sensitive or you arnt. thats been established in starwars lore for decades. theyve shit all over the lore by suggesting anyone can become a jedi or that people without force sensitivity can suddenly develop it out of nowhere. all because they want to turn sabine into some overpowered woke girlboss who will end up diminishing ezra bridger as a character.
@@Khobai and yet you’re wrong, George has even said since that the force resides in all things everyone can tap into it. So no you’re wrong. Some are just way more powerful then others. Just because someone doesn’t make an object float doesn’t mean they don’t have the force.
@@joshbourne9679 the force resides in all living things but not all things living can use the force. you have to be force sensitive to use the force. you have no clue how the force works lmao. stfu sabine becoming a jedi is almost as ridiculous as her still being alive.
@@Khobai Force Sensitivity clearly isn't an on/off matter. Even among Jedi there is a wide spectrum of ability. It makes no sense for their being that spectrum and then just a cut off point below which you are completely insensitive to the Force.
The Jedi Order only trained those with peak ability for practical reasons, but there are plenty of people (likely way more than there are Jedi) who could use minor Force powers after some training.
Personally i would have her train in MANDALORIAN arts. Boba didn't fear any Jedi.
"Im enjoying the View, Leave us Jedi... Pray that we not meet again..."
My take on the midichlorean thing: They’re mitochondria. And, in reality, they’re separate life forms that symbolically inhabit your cells. Now, life is what generates the energy that we call the Force. Therefore, the more midichloreans you have in you, the more life you have in one place, and thus the stronger the Force is concentrated in you. It’s like a radio antenna. The more you have, the stronger the signal becomes and the easier it gets to manipulate it.
Part of me hopes that Sabine ends up failing at using the Force, and embraces that. Show that you don't need to be a Jedi to stand alongside the Jedi. It seems like some of the fans, and creators require a character to be a Force User in order to matter. Forgetting about great characters like Han, Chewie, Lando, the Clones, Zeb, Hera, and all the droids.
If you mean by "fail" as in her not really being able to use telekinesis and the more common uses of the Force, then I'm all for that too. She only needs precognition and being able to listen to the Will of the Force, and that would make her the deadliest Mando-Jedi since Tarre Viszla.
Sabine was always borderline Force Sensitive. There were too many scenes (and other bits) in Rebel's that showed this:
1. She's a descendant of Tarre Viszla, the First Mando-Jedi.
2. She found the Dark Saber, which was originally in Maul's possession, basically out of nowhere.
3. When initially Saber training with Ezra, two Convors watched on (rep. Kanan and Ezra), then a 3rd appears a little away to watch too (likely rep. Sabine). Kanan also specifically states that Sabine is "blocked."
4. The Bendu (a powerful Force entity of balance) has a minor interaction with her - she kicks his foot, and he eventually stirs. She doesn't realise this and walks off. Then he looks back at her.
5. When Ezra is called by the Loth Wolves, Sabine also partially hears the call. No one else can (since Kanan is gone, it would mean Ezra is the last Force User in the group. If Sabine can hear a Force call, then she must have some aptitude.)
So... anyone saying Sabine was never Force Sensitive has never watched Rebels. She certainly is... just not at the same level as a gifted user like Ezra, or even a seasoned Knight like Kanan.
Watched Rebels repeatedly. You're seeing what you want to see. Did you say this years ago when the show was out? No, you're saying this now after Disney made the illogical decision to try to turn Sabine into a Jedi. NO ONE has even suggested Sabine could use the Force before now.
It makes sense that the way Ahsoka would try to train any sort of apprentice would be very much informed by the Jedi way of training because that's how she learned. You could also argue that Jedi training might have value even to those who would never learn to use the force in the way Jedi do because it contains a useful ideology and worldview, teaches patience and self-discipline as well as refined styles of combat and more.
Have to watch the 3rd part, and I have not seen the characters before Ahsoka series. But ... in my views there's a distinction between force users (and you can see it even with the Sith). There are those that use it as a tool (mostly in combat) and there are those that can actually "see" the force around them (Qui Gon, Kenobi, Luke, Vader ...). I don't know how to describe the difference properly. I think Sabine will make the first type not the second ...
So you've never seen Ahsoka prior to this series? Or just the Rebel's characters shown? Either way, probably would be best if you watch Rebel's to get a better understanding. And you're correct in some sense. Sabine won't see and feel the Force like prodigies, but she can still see and feel it. Episode 1 shows this with Sabine having visions, while sleeping.
Rey was trained by leia for a year inbetween episode 8 and 9 . Losers
I hope that Sabine never quite gets to a Jedi level. That way she’ll always be the underdog. If she all of the sudden becomes just as powerful as Luke or even Rey, then it will feel like she just turned on god mode. It won’t be exciting because we know she’ll win easily.
Filoni doesn’t understand how the force works!
Sabine has never shown any signs of force sensitivity because she doesn’t have the required midi chlorian count! Therefore, Ahsoka trying to teach Sabine how to use the force is just flat out stupid!
I was watching the video and was thinking about why I dislike Sabine as a padawan.
And I think the two main reasons are:
She was already way to good at so many things as a teenager in Rebels that I don't think adding force powers is really doing anything. I would even argue it takes something away from her, since she was a young Mandalorian with a bit of a different mindset/outlook especially compared to the Mando series (which I also thought wasn't treating alot of characters well in season 3, but that is another story). Sidenote: I really loved the story arcs for non-force characters in the Star Wars MMO (Star Wars: The Old Republic) - It hought they were super interesting, and showed those characters with their own skills can be very intriguing. Not everyone needs the force, heck, I'd argue having less Force Users is actually good to make them stand out a bit more. Having more of them and having more people swinging around light sabres basically brought us to the current state where wounds from them somehow don't kill anymore. And that doesn't make sense in the slightest, unless it actually is just a scratch or your limb got injured (your blood would still boil from the heat and would cause more harm but at lest there it doesn't feel as bad)
The second big reason is her frustration and well mindset. Just look at the scene where she asks why they jump out of hyperspace that far away, she gets a real answer, factual and just roles her eyes. Combine that with her frustration and negative mindset and you have a prime candidate for falling to the dark side. Ahsoka especially SHOULD know that, so it doesn't add up to me why she does it. Or at least: does it in a way that she does. To me, she should tell her what she wants Sabine to be, or tell her what the goal is, to make her understand - Ahsoka in the end should know that even Anakin fell to the dark side due to his emotions, and she should see alot of warning signs in Sabine, but instead she tells her she is doing great, basically telling her what she does and how she does it is good? Just doesn't add up for me personally.
The other thing that I feel like is going to happen is that at some point in the show Sabine will magically get awesome with the force, adding another perfect boss character that doesn't really feel right to me. Maybe I am wrong, but I 100% expect Disney to do this at this point, looking at their history and how they write characters, especially since we already know that KK was involved heavily in this show. And we all know that the force is female...
I am in the middle of if I want Sabine to be a jedi or not. I think it would be interesting if she truly has the potential for it. If she does become a full fledged Jedi okay if not I want to see her character growth and where they go with her.
For me the only two things that matter in the Ahsoka Show are Baylan and Shin that's it nothing else
When people say she showed no sings of using the force I would point to the episode of rebels where she solved the jedi temple drawings just because her use of the force is not conventional does not mean she has not used it. I would say if you look hard enough you will find one athlete that can compete with the best despite on paper only having average phyicals and skill proficences. They understand the sport or game in a way that lets them compete even if on paper they should not.
Also George Lucas has mention countless times that everyone has the force yes some are wayyyyy more adept at using it. But if you dedicated your life to the teachings and are taught by a true master of the force there’s a good chance you could at least have some force power. Whether it be minuscule or just decent.
Most of the people in the SW universe are losers then if they could have just worked a bit and had Force powers. What losers!
@@donkeysaurusrex7881 I mean if they had been trained by a Jedi master and had studied and learned the ways of the force maybe they would’ve been adept at using it. But han tapped into it without realizing it. Don’t be so cynical loll it makes you seem childish
@@joshbourne9679 Yeah, but if just anyone could learn it if they tried hard enough why on earth would you choose not to? Sure I could move things with my mind, but you know what I ain’t gonna. It’s choosing to crawl your whole life instead of learning to walk.
@@donkeysaurusrex7881 it’s all about discipline. Not everyone wants to become a monk. I wouldn’t wanna give up my family and friends for who knows how long to MAYBE be able to move a cup or get better at dodging. Just because you can learn doesn’t mean you’ll be powerful. I should’ve mentioned that. I doubt Sabine will be a Jedi as mentioned she isn’t even being trained to be one.
@@donkeysaurusrex7881 I mean again there’s no way to know how powerful in the force you’d be. If ur not already attuned to it why waste all ur life learning to maybe get decent at it. When you could get great at doing other things. We’re just seeing a story about someone who is choosing to learn and maybe get sorta ok at it
I feel like Sabine falls into the low force sensitivity category. Someone who does well at certain things. But not strong enough to really use it. I read somewhere that Han Solo was on the low end of this category.
Yeah. Mr. I Make My Own Luck, was on that lower level, but above the typical level for the general population. Same with Lando and Chewie (who might've had a little more). Sabine likely falls into that category.
I like to believe she will become like that blind force user in Star Wars rogue one.
A massive system order like the Jedi would likely find tons of use for training people that might be force sensitive but not have the talent. They could be used for parts of the system that a Jedi master or Knight wouldn't have time to do. Granted they could just use robots or normies I guess, to keep secrets and stuff. But a base of individuals that have a connection with the Order to do the nitty gritty work would be hugely beneficial.
I liked how Sabine's training scenes in Part 3 made her character more interesting. She persevered despite her struggles and lack of Force powers. Ahsoka recognised that she did not need to be a Jedi to be able to fight with a lightsaber. Ahsoka rejects the idea that only Force users can use lightsabers.
Hey Thor:
I like your analogy with basketball. Talent without training or training without talent will only get you so far. But elite talent with delayed training will probably still get you somewhere (such as those basketball players who start in their early teens and still make the NBA or Luke Skywalker who was ready to leave the farm before he discovered his force skills). But, as you say, only elite talent and elite training will get you to the Michael Jordan pinnacle.
I also like your point near the end of the video that Sabine is a character who is already well-stocked with talent without adding in the force. In fact, her over-abundance of talent has long made her my least favourite Rebels character. You list some of her achievements, including being a weapons’ expert, a bounty hunter, and an impressive artist. I would add that she’s able to defeat a full-grown Mandalorian man in a physical fight.
(Such girl power is baffling to me. I can understand force users' physical abilities can become irrelevant, ala elderly Dooku being able to take out two young and talented Jedi simultaneously. But why would a tiny teenage girl-without the force-be able to beat up a large, Mandalorian-trained, male adult fighter? For that matter, why are all of the non-force-using female fighters in today’s Star Wars-see Bo Katan, The Armorer, Fennec Shand, and Cara Dune-able to win physical fights with equally-trained male fighters? In that part of the galaxy, do men not have a physical advantage over women? Because in this part of the galaxy, we literally separate men from women in not only combat sports but almost all sports. Indeed, while I have no doubt that Gina Carano could beat ME up, how the force is she out-strengthing a Zabrak in a game of tug-of-war combat?)
In any case, I always disliked Sabine as a character in Rebels because I thought she was boringly overloaded with talent-as you say, she’s already the Tony Stark of Star Wars (or the Rey of that Star Wars era). And that could be fine: occasionally on earth, we meet a multi-skilled genius, such as Leonardo Da Vinci or Bo Jackson who seem to have talent in more than their fair share of occupations.
My objection to Sabine is the show portrays her as an ordinary girl who happens to have had a difficult life and has a few hobbies that make her useful to the Ghost crew. I don’t think they ever acknowledge that she’s a wunderkind (unlike Tony Stark who points it out in that clip you played). The implication to me then is that anyone can be as successful as her if they just put their mind to it, which I think is a cruel lie, because, in reality, most of us cannot master all those things in our teenage years. If the show and the characters in it had just acknowledged that Sabine was a freak of nature, and maybe even admitted that her lack of force skill was a nice bit of balance for her ego, then I think she would have been passable as a character. But she’s too good at everything without admitting it to be realistic and enjoyable. And the fact that Ezra was good at the force did not make him more talented than her: it just made him lucky to have gotten something for free. Without the force, Sabine’s Ezra’s superior in nearly every way.
So, to my surprise, I actually find Sabine having some force talent in Ahsoka makes her LESS impressive and thus less annoying as a character design. Maybe now her aptitudes (and ability to beat up men) have more explanation than just girl power. Similarly, for me, Rey being a Palpatine at least redeemed the character design of Force Awakens Rey because we essentially found out in The Rise of Skywalker that Michael Jordan was her dad, so her sudden affinity for jump shots-while still overdone-at least had an explanation.
Ahsoka's character has been exploring the edges of the Jedi since TCW, so honestly I think it's a pretty natural continuation of that to use her story to explore the limits of Force Sensitivity, and how much can be taught to a Force Insensitive apprentice.
I guess the problem some people have is either that this seemingly breaks the dicothomy of Sensitivity and Insensitivity, or because after all the BS DT and Kenobi pulled regarding the Force people are leary to any additions Disney makes, particularly when it superficially looks like an excuse for Rey (despite in practice being anything but).
“If you’re worth attempting to train,” I think of as “if you’re worth separating from your family as a baby” or “worth making sure you’re not raised as a dark sider.”
Master Thor, thank you for the very well thought out and rational analysis of what is going on with Sabine in the Ahsoka series. It does bear out what George Lucas has had in the past about the Force, and what you would have said about the Force that surrounds us penetrates us, it holds us together everyone. Everyone is touched by the Force that cannot be denied. Sure she may not be the one Jedi, but to some extent with trading as you so rightly point out with your NBA analogy some modicum of skill could be achieved.
I also agree with you that Sabine is well skilled and talented, without having to wield the Force. Certainly not as a Jedi.
But I think I points out an excellent thing that may be day. Faloni is doing intentional, and if the rumors of Favre, possibly saying he was gonna quit the Mandalorian if they didn’t get the Ultimate Empress of Evil, Supreme Darth, Kathleen Kennedy to back off, perhaps this is a push back on Rey getting instant Force powers.
She essentially did a Vulcan Mind Meld with Kylo Ren and download it his powers to the mind meld just like in the 2009, Star Trek Kirk got the entire background of what happened to Romulus from Spock. A stolen trope. If you were a question of her, having an eight skills wouldn’t have popped up in her time of immense need to wash, he was stranded on the planet by herself, trying to scrape by?
Even the most talented of people need to work hard on their skills. And I think that’s what this is about.
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Concept doesn’t bother me. I think your analogies make sense.
I’m also headcanoning the “midiclorians are attracted to strong force users” explanation!
If they are serious about Sabine becoming a more significant character then she MUST have some level of force sensitivity. She doesn’t need to have high potential at all, but maybe her story arc is simply that she’ll have to overcome her low level of potential and utilize her force powers in more creative ways. That’s would be fascinating to me.
But imo Sabine’s story is clearly leading up to a decisive fight with Shin where she overcomes her mental blocks and uses the force. But I don’t believe that Sabine will ever be as strong as a republic era Jedi knight. Sabine was clearly born with a lower connection to the force. Like those Jedi who end up serving the order in other ways rather than being a knight.
Sabine could become a really cool and creative Jedi Knight, if done right. Sure, she may never accomplish some of the feats of the Jedi of old, but she can blend the best of her mandalorian heritage and her new Jedi path together.
Im a little worried where the force is going. They're doing the dr strange thing of "Anyone can be a wizard... we only have like 12, but yeh, anyone can use magic. " It feels like it makes the world building feel off if EVERYONE can use telekinesis... why wouldn't you? Especially in worlds full of monsters, aliens, and super villains. I get what theyre going with but it feels like a dnd party... but everyone can be the mage AS WELL AS being their rogue/barbarian/archer etc
The Force was never as One dimensional as you're describing. The most basic use of the Force is feeling its will. That's it. After that is seeing snippets of the future (precognition) and this can be used in combat to predict your opponents moves and make sure you don't hurt yourself in battle.
The idea of moving objects, shooting lightning or firing off dark magic is really advanced stuff.
@Cabolt44 true but this has been thrown out by rey who can just do things now. Granted in other media you have luke who used telekinesis in empire without knowing that was a thing in new hope. So clearly jedi can use the force in limited ways or discover new limitations through regular use. But now we found out ANYONE can find that out. There was even a child in last jedi that just uses telekinesis on a broom, no struggle or focusing
Outstanding video!
Great points contrasting Sabine and Rey. Now that Sabine joined Baylon, I’m starting to like the show much more. It’s a bold step. Luke and Rey resisted temptation. But this is the story of someone who did not. Interesting and bold choice! Gotta keep watching now!
I think I’d have preferred her to go down the route of using Mandalorian technology to counter force users, such as the bracers that Fenn Rau gave her. Perhaps this is a twist that is yet to come, but I doubt it because it feels like she’s had plenty of time to reach this conclusion in the period between Rebels and Ahsoka.
I agree with a lot of what you said. I always viewed it as, everyone has the potential to use the Force ("The Force resides in all living things"), but they need to train to use it. And like you pointed out, some people are going to have more talent to use it compared to others. I don't know if I agree with your point that midi-chlorians are just happening to be there, since it kind of goes against what Qui-Gon said, and kind of the point of their existence. To me, it seems like it's the biological component organics needed to have access to, or "hear the will of", the Force. But your theory does also explain why Dathan doesn't have the Force and Rey does, so...I don't know how to feel about that.
In any case, in regards to Sabine, while I don't like Sabine training to use the Force, it at least finally shows that not anyone can super strong with the Force instantly. Anyone can train for it, but you have to work for it. People who love Rey being a "nobody" seem to forget that Obi-Wan exists, not to mention the thousands of prequel era Jedi.
Also, I leave a nod to the book Heir to the Jedi, where Luke spends the majority of the book trying to teach himself to use the Force, and struggles throughout most of it since, well, it should be a challenge, especially without a teacher.
Sorry, if everyone can use the Force, there's nothing special about it or being a Jedi. There's use the Force....and then there's USE THE FORCE. A Jedi or someone fighting in sword combat against a Force wielder like Shin has to be able to USE THE FORCE. Sabine is going to somehow get to that point in two days and beat Shin at some point. It's just going to be another groan moment of Disney Star Wars screwing something up. More power to people who want to roll with it, but it's Disney crapping on Star Wars again. Lucas did not mean what they are making him out to have meant. And Thor...when you're going to the sequel trilogy to justify things... don't, lol. The only way the sequel trilogy can help star wars is if it's retconned out of existence.
See, the whole thing everyone misses are that there is clearly levels or amounts of aptitude when it comes to the Force. Therefore, while not everyone can be super-powerful, there can be -some- level of use. Even something as minor as honing senses or precognition. Finn was shown to have a form of awareness. The Jedi had their standards for admittance into the Order, and now we are seeing that perhaps it was too rigid and that maybe raw talent isn’t enough to be a Jedi. In Legends, there are examples of this like Tionne.
Could we be seeing a redefinition of what being a Jedi truly means?
Not really. Not only has she never shown aptitude for the Force, she was just fine as a character as a Mandalorian. Her becoming a Jedi just seems tacked on and unnecessary. As a Mandalorian, she's capable of facing off against dangerous foes, even Force sensitive ones. It makes even less sense for Ahsoka to train her, since she herself isn't a Jedi, and wouldn't train Grogu.
Sabine had too much on her resume to begin with just in Rebels, they don't need to give her anymore.
Thor Skywalker, that the force is everywhere in everything, that's ok, but everyone becoming a Jedi is absurd; if everyone is special, no one is. Jedi are special because there is very few of them.
It was a stupid decision to try to make Sabine a Jedi, and the writers of this new series are so incompetent that she probably will exhibit signs of a Jedi before the end of this season.
Why make her a Jedi, she was already a very interesting character in Rebels; they should have started with this version of Sabine, the one at the end of Rebels. 🤔
But it isn't just that you need to have the ability and a midichlorian level that is enough to get the sensibility. Otherwise there is no point training. You can't train your M-count. The midichlorians choose their host.
Sabine already has more training than Rey ever had
Rey is a Rey (Mary Sue) while I hate no utterly despise the idea of Sabine using the force at least she's being trained unlike that worthless excuse of a character who's so poorly written executed and handled she single handedly ruined the Rey Trilogy (Sequel Trilogy)
I personally saw nothing wrong with Sabine as an expert on explosives and guns. We saw how brutally effective the clones were with Jedi support - the sword and shield tactic Rex described. The Jedi acts as a shield from blaster fire and lightsabers, while the clones act as a sword, dealing most of the actual damage with their blasters and grenades. This tactic makes it so each member can fully use their strengths, while compensating for the weaknesses of the other. Why could it not work here? Ahsoka acting as bait while Sabine flies around with her jetpack, shooting and blowing up the distracted enemies? Hell, we have even seen characters like Jango Fett and Can Bane, who have held their own and even beaten Jedi occasionally, all without any Force powers at all. If there is anything I have learned from Prequels, it is that leaving the security of the galaxy in the hands of a very limited number of "chosen people", capable as they may be, can be a very bad idea.
Hey Thor I hate to bring up video games but ...This exact same thing happened in a Star Wars online game. The jedi path was rare and everyone wanted to be one. So they made it just one of the classes you could pick at the start of the game. All of a sudden, there were jedi everywhere and it stopped being special. There was no community of different skills anymore and the players lost interest and the game was shut down soon after.
One of the hotteat games out went sownhill fast because they took what was special out of being a jedi. "If everyone is soecial then nobody is"
Dave is probably just avoiding the word "midichlorian" because of how much casuals hate it, but saying that "everyone has the Force" is basically acknowledging the same thing.
Having the "talent" in this case just means having a higher midichlorian count.
I think people are just reacting a bit negatively to it, cause it kind of reminds us of what TLJ was trying to say about anyone being able to become a Jedi. The difference is that TLJ didn't specify anything, to the point that it could be interpreted anyone being able to become extremely powerful with no training at all, regardless of natural talent. Which is not how the Force works.
Ahsoka, at the very least, is making it very clear that Sabine is probably not gonna be able to become a fully fledged Jedi, and will have to find her own way to do things with proper training, because the lack of natural talent is a barrier she can't possibly overcome completely.
I've honestly always been curious to know what happens if a regular person were to be trained as a Jedi, and if done correctly, we might see that in this show.
That said, if Sabine later on becomes very powerful and starts using the Force like any regular Jedi, that's when I will call it bullshit and reject it. But so far, it hasn't broken any rules (or at least not blatantly).
Sabine has that Tarre Vizsla blood in her veins, she's House Vizsla in Rebels S2 Prptector of Concord Dawn, maybe it kinda awoke in Sabine while with Kanan, Ezra, & wielding two lightsabers in her career, & helping to unlock the Lothal Jedi Temple. Maybe she can train for years or more & move a pebble. Idk just imo
PS Tarre Vizsla is the first Mando Jedi over a thousand years before the Clone Wars
Also I don't want Sabine being like Luke in ANH or ESB, that's too much for my suspension of disbelief. I'm okay with Sabine training for years or even more & moving a pebble. Or just having a bad feeling about things or better shot accuracy, a bit of extra strength & speed. Idk just me
yeah but a thousand years after its probably diluted significantly
@fruitylerlups530 It skips a couple hundred generations, or Force genetics are more not straightforward as real world genetics. Just my thoughts
If you have to ask if it makes sense, then it probably doesn't.
If it makes "more sense" than Rey's, then that's also not saying much at all.
I'm an Autistic Super Savant and was able to pick up the arts very easly but I still needed to train and put effort in to be great at each field, good even to begin with... So I agree whole heartly with this video.
Her training checks out lol especially in comparison to the sequels. Everyone can learn to interact with the force to one degree or another. You just dont become a black belt over night.
- Do I care that she has minor force sensitivity. No.
- Do I care that she has been getting trained by Ahsoka (both lightsaber training and in the force). No
- Do I care about her being given the title of Jedi (should it really happen etc). Yes.
That is supposed to be a sacred title which is central to the SWs universe.
Think of who (main character wise) has been given it in the films - Luke, OWK, Yoda, QGJ, Anakin, Rey, Ben Solo.
Theyve all been the main protagonist or their teacher - and their force sensitivity is central to their character arc.
If Sabine is given the title then its probably going to cheapen it. In the same way as retroactively giving it to Leia did. Leia was a leader and a diplomat. Giving her force powers and lightsaber skills was uneccessary.
Kotor 2 sith lords did something similar where you could train some of your crew and eventually they would open themselves up to the force
To me it makes perfect sense that Sabine or anyone else can learn to use the force to some limited degree. What doesn't make sense is why bother to train her if all she can do is learn it to a very limited degree? As with the basketball analogy, most people, especially after reaching adulthood as Sabine has, won't bother training their basketball skills hour after hour, day after day because they already know it's impractical due to their upper limit being beneath the threshold to make a living as a basketball player. This is why it seems likely that Sabine will end up actually being very proficient with the force, otherwise the training is a waste of time.
3:00 It also takes a whole lot of luck. How many great players tryout and how many spots are open? It’s the best of the best competing for that spot. And Jordan didn’t have it from the start. He was cut from his high school basketball team. And his first nba championship win was seven years after he debuted. Reminds me of Obi-Wan in a way. He wasn’t talented at first but he was determined to be a Jedi. And he did, some even consider him to be the ideal Jedi. Anyways yes hard work does pay off. Look what Jimmy Butler did with the bench vs the starting lineup. 😂
I straight up scoffed when I saw the trailer revealing her with a lightsaber
It was obvious what they wanted to do, and it still feels fake
I wouldn't be surprised if she straight up rebuilds the darksaber with nothing but a bucket of chicken at this point just to make disney pat themselves on the back from fanservice
I don’t want her to be a force user per Se. If she were like someone who had some “force” ability to be a better fighter that can sense things before they happen - I’m cool with that.
Her learning how to fight with a blade I think is good in the sense who knows how strong Baylon ant Shin are. They booyasted guards in the first episode with ease, I doubt her just shooting a pistol at them he’s going to do much, even as a Mandalorian. She has a better fighting chance of learning, basic swordsmanship, and trying to counterattack in that regard, or at least use it as a method of fighting, and use her blaster as a primary option.
I suppose my perspective is more of that like avatar, the last Airbender uncle Iroh tells Zuko, even as a fire bender, it’s wise, to learn how other benders fight, and borrow their bending to make your own bending even stronger - because only using one source makes you stale. Learning another form of Defense and fighting only enhances her abilities as a well-rounded fighter. And she’s working for it. But I’m entitled to be wrong.
As a manhwa reader, I treat force the same as inner force in murim. Everybody has it but needs to be unlocked with years of training.
I appreciate the insight Thor, my main issue with Sabine's arc in Ahsoka is not the how but the why, as in why are we seeing thus, what's the point? In my opinion her arc is a nice idea in theory, the problem is the execution.
It is always a tremendous pleasure to listen to you.
I haven't watched Rebels, and nor do I intend to, but I imagine that proficiency with a lightsaber might at least suggest to a master that the wielder is somewhat force sensitive. Jedi training presumably covers everything one can do with a lightsaber, including deflecting blaster bolts. If Sabine shows some proficiency with a lightsaber then I'm really not surprised that Ahsoka may feel like she has more to offer. So I'm fine that there is at least some force training, and that it's only something small to begin with like trying to move a cup into her hand.
The better thing that the show does now is showing Sabine actually training and, more importantly, failing as she's doing so. And not only that, but she's not a crack shot immediately when she takes her tail gunner position later in the episode. She's flawed already. She is no MaRey SuePalpaSkywalkertine, she is only human who is imperfect. I'm already rooting for her more to win than I ever rooted for Rey because she at least shows that she's determined to persevere despite her shortcomings. That scene alone gives me a little hope for her character in this show, after being disillusioned with the whole thing following the horrible introductory episodes
As a kid I thought of the force as being a part of a religion that anyone could belong to, but you can’t lie to yourself to belong to it. This is because I don’t think anything was stopping Luke from lifting his Xwing out of the swamp. I also base this on a real world parallel with Christians who say they feel the Holy Spirit compared to the ones who actually do. Everyone, religious and not, can tell the difference between the two types of people even though there is nothing physically preventing both from having a connection to the Holy Spirit
Could they have just made a new character for Ahsoka to train? Or even Jacen Syndulla?
Well, when you make loosey goosy rules, why not? Why not make Asoka a living force planet that transcends the world between worlds? There ya go Filoni, your next plot beat for Rebels/Asoka season 3, Thrawn Planet.
"Sabine is constipated! She needs more fiber to feel the force!"
To be fair to Disney, they've realised that general audiences wont go for story based shows(lack of the force). Why everyone seems to becoming force sensitive. Also the reason why the force keeps getting more powerful. Marvel ruined audiences ability to watch shows and movies with no dopamine overload. I'd expect a lot force sensitive characters tbh
They realized that TOO LATE!!! If they were smart Luke's school would have never been blown up, and we would have had thousands of new Jedi by now.
Now they have the worst of both worlds, while actively sabotaging any plot points that Luke could have had, like training Grogu.
Instead they do this stupid shit in the most Disney way possible by breaking thousands of lore rules just to get to the result that was already there, which they just failed to use.
The fact that she IS training makes her better than Rey... however I still believe that it really doesn't make sense for Sabine to be a Jedi, or for Ahsoka to take her on as an apprentice. Even in Rebels her and Sabine rarely interacted with one another, if ever. It would've been much better if Sabine had stayed a normal Mandalorian, and perhaps introduce a new character to be Ahsoka's apprentice - perhaps even making it so its Kanan and Hera's son.
This. This exactly. Sabine has her own strengths aplenty. A logical story arc for her woud be to make up for her previous failing - to compensate for the weapons that harmed her people, she should come up with technology that would help them, e.g. make Mandalore habitable again after its burning. Plus, I'm not sure I like this idea of waving the lightsabre being a stand-in for psychotherapy to open up and understand oneself - it made sense while Darksabre was in her possession to learn to wield it and get that extra added bonus, but doing the same with Ahsoka now feels like a step back, a page from GoT, if you will, with Sansa becoming a victim yet again.
Id like to see a series about the force sensitive kid that picked up the broom with his powers back in the casino planet in the last Jedi only kinda interesting thing about the Disney SW to me
She is basically just getting saber lessons so she can join the cool lightsaber fights.
Well said. I'm okay with Sabine training. I'll have a big problem with her Force abilities suddenly "coming online" though like a switch. I hope they never show up honestly
As long as Sabine won't show ridiculous force skills, I am absolutely fine with the idea that a very experienced and knowledgeable force user like Ashoka can train a motivated random nobody to a decent level.
But I am not sure that Sabine's character needs this. Best Mandalorians should be able to defeat low-level force users by skill alone. I want jetpacked Sabine to kick the blond's ass using |Mandalorian gear, not win a lightsaber duel... But I expect it will be a duel.
Here's what I would have done, Sabine loses a hand or leg or arm and Ahsoka feeling that pain revealing a force bond between them like from Kotor 2
I like the analogy, it’s like me for example I’m not a good swimmer and don’t have the talent for it. If I was trained on an Olympic level I would build up the strength and knowledge of how to swim, but I would never be as good as an Olympic or pro swimmer
The difference in training and talent is that the person with talent has the inherent instinct/intuition for utilizing the necessary skills. Training is still necessary to use the skills effectively, and talent makes that use automatic in the moment.
A person who only relies on training can learn all the same elements but will always be just that bit behind because they still have to actively process a circumstance and make a decision on how to use the skills.