Before watching: Did anyone also catch that when ahsoka says, "I will not fight you." And anakin goes, "I heard that one before." Anakin low-key referencing luke
@@royalrexfordI don't think that's her having a halu moment, or a force test. I think that's actually Anakin post death. Aside from how he talks, I think Jacen hearing two lightsabers fight also helps build into the idea of him being actually there.
It was painfully obvious that Anakin let Ahsoka beat him. He gave her that window to see if she was learning. She won't learn anything if he kills her.
It was Ahsoka's vision or dream. Technically she wins against her own demons. The outcome was contingent on her repudiating Anakin's flawed teaching from her subconscience.
I think it has to be Anakins force ghost or essence since he references his encounter with Luke in Episode VI. An Anakin from Ahsokas memory would have no knowledge of that
@twars8901 yeah exactly, it happened, she was really there, anakins within the force, they were on a force strong planet, this was an amazing episode.
I also think ti was actual Anakin. Having said that - Ahsoka at this point in time already met Luke and spend time with him on his "Jedi temple Planet". So he could have told her about his encouter with Vader. So she might have known what he said to him.
@@clairemadeinheaven It's entirely possible that she is. Even while the jedi were around, they didn't recruit all force sensitives, and often force sensitives who were untrained would excel at things like piloting where their subconscious use of the force can give them improved reactions - like how Anakin was the only human to pilot a pod racer as a child, because he was subconsciously using the force. Also similar to how Han Solo is widely considered to be an untrained force sensitive for the same reasons. That doesnt mean she has the potential to become a jedi or use the force under pressure though.
I saw it as Anakin teaching Ahsoka to overcome her guilt. Anakin’s final lesson was teaching her to embrace her legacy, and to realize she’s more than her mistakes, just like him. This wasn’t her mind telling her to live, it was Anakin reaching out to her through the Force. I also saw some people asking how she survived in the water, and I think that’s easily explained since she was in a Force Trance. Even the most mediocre Jedi on the brink of death are capable of amazing feats through the Force. I think people wanted more discussion between them about why he fell, but I think that’s coming later. There’s lines in the trailer we haven’t heard yet as well. This might not even be the last flashback, but I’m expecting Force ghost Anakin to appear again.
I think in one of the ahsoka trailers she is speaking to anakin about thrawn but his force ghost wasn't on screen in the trailer. But it does imply that his force ghost will appear again.
Ahsoka in TWBW finishing her training is reminiscent of Kanan Jarrus becoming a Jedi knight in the Jedi temple by a temple guard who reveals himself as the Grand Inquisitor. “By the right of the Council, by the will of the Force, Kanan Jarrus, you may rise…you are what I once was, a knight of the Jedi order.”
My thoughts exactly. Kanan even teleported there into that training sequence away from Ezra and Ahsoka. I feel it similar to Ahsoka and Anakin. She’s there in the water but also not.
I was hoping for this moment too! After all, Anakin WAS on the council so by the right of the council (myself) and the will of the Force (which he is now a part of), Jedi Knight Ahsoka Tano you may rise.
Ahsoka was carrying a lot of doubts about her training, and that may be linked to why she never finished training Sabine. The idea was presented a few episodes ago, when Ahsoka compares the way she walked away from Anakin to the way she walked away from Sabine. Perhaps she feared that she was somehow tainted by Anakin's training. That the seeds of the Dark side were in him even during the Clone Wars. I believe that Anakin was trying to show her that he taught her what she needed to survive through a brutal war, a purge, and a rebellion. In the end she embraces her training, and that enables her to survive once again.
Nah. It was just an uninspired lesson used to justify a really cool looking interactive flashback/nostalgia. They seriously lead with the nostalgia flashback in the script and came up with a lesson later. Even a more simple lesson like how to punch through a coffin in Kill Bill vol 2, with a new character introduction flashback held more merit than that “I’m teaching you how to live” bs.
Why even try to train Sabine? Maybe because teaching someone who can't wield the force has zero chance of creating a dark side user? Meanwhile she's been ignoring the more appropriate candidate for training who does carry risk if she screws up: Jacen.
It is possible that Ahsoka indeed never was in the water all that time. Only when she returned to life. That would explain why they couldn't find her earlier despite all their sweeps.
The problem with that is that it was unnecessary to have her fall into the water or by the water in the first place. People are breaking down whether she was in the water or not or how she survived. Which is a dumb conversation to have in the first place. Even if it comes up again where she’s rescued into the world between worlds and other characters see her disappear, it’s still a dumb thing to talk about because the truth surrounding the mystery of the water scene is simply that she wasn’t in the water in the first place. Nothing that adds depth to the story, just that she wasn’t there. That’s because Filoni isn’t a trained writer and doesn’t understand the concept of “3 seconds or less.” As a writer you don’t want audiences arguing over the logic of a scene. You want them to revisit the themes of the scene but you’re adding confusion and not clarity if the themes themselves lack logic.
@@magaakhilgov5260 She already met luke ant this point and spend time with him. So he might have told her about that encoutner. but still i also think it was real Anakin.
I still think it’s possible we haven’t seen the final scene of rebels yet and it’s weird that hardly anyone is considering that as a possibility. Also as far as whether or not it’s anakin: “I won’t fight you” “I’ve heard that before” Only anakin would have context for that. As far how Ashoka came back as the white, I think it’s because of the daughter being in her. Whether that will ever be spelled out? Who knows
For me the Ahsoka being in the water was because she just got there. Force Anakin was watching her fight Baylon and as she lost the fight and fell he pulled her into the world between worlds. This is why he said he did not expect to see her here so soon, as he had tried to train her to survive, to live. So his lesson was to remind her to fight to live and stay alive.
The problem with the Kenobi fight isn't that Vader loses. It's that Vader is an idiot who doesn't have a big enough attention span to spare a minute to check that the person whose murder he obsessed over for a decade is actually dead. It's hard to take seriously a villain who acts more like a dog that's distracted by a squirrel than like the cunning and ruthless Sith Lord he's supposed to be. The Ahsoka fight does not have that problem, and since Anakin is trying to teach Ahsoka a lesson, his goal was for her to 'win.' There's no plot-induced stupidity or disrespect to the character in the outcome the way there was in Kenobi.
Sorry but Vader has been disrespected by even things you guys love. Force Unleashed turned Vader into Galen's B word and full of lore inconsistencies but fans worship that game. Vader is beat from an inch of his life and that game made me lose any admiration and fear the original trilogies created about Vader. At least in Kenobi that's an actual master who trained him and knows his weaknesses, so I can buy that. And that scene was made to explain the OT blunder of Obi Wan calling him "Darth" like it was his first name and not a sith title. Originally Darth was a first name so at least they tried to rightfully retcon this better.
@Thiago_Alves_Souza TFU is a computer game. It's never once been pushed as being on the same level as the films; it was barely accepted at EU level. Next you'll be telling us that "Masters of the Teras Kasi" did more damage to Luke than the sequels.
@happybuttersblast8334 but that is a broad brush description of the PT/OT that doesn't really account for OP's (accurate) claim - making characters incompetent waters them down, making them seem stupid and, in Vader's case, less of a threat.
He was teaching her to let go of the guilt and personal responsibility she felt about him falling to the dark side. She had entered into this moody state of near apathy, being in a literal “gray” area she couldn’t move beyond. Anakins lesson was teaching her to move on and live. Stopping and wallowing is death (which almost happened when she fought Baylon) Could be wrong, that’s just what I took away from it
She was essentially paralysed by the past and her fear of it reoccurring in the future. She seemed to me, to be to be too detatched in her relationship with Sabine - and imo its one of the reasons why they failed in ep4. Ahsoka was basically. Greater good. Absolutely nothing else. All the while unable to comprehend Sabines perspective on the choice she had.
Hate porn on star wars gets clicks, it's really that simple. The show is not really good, but it's not bad either, with the last two episodes actually being fairly decent, and having some really good scenes/moments. The perfect example is Andor; lots of people/channels hating on it because that was the thing to do if you make videos on star wars after BOB and Kenobi, but it was actually the best made show of all these D+ star wars shows. I think Ahsoka could have been made a lot better, but you can tell there is definitely some budget constraints playing a role here, not to mention the current state of affairs at Disney and in Hollywood...
My problem with Asokah becoming a "messiah-like" figure, is that this is exactly what Luke or Annikin Solo were supposed to be - the guys who were supposed to bring balance to the Force and fix a galaxy broken by Sith machinations. This comes off as if they're trying to make Asokha the main character, not just of this series, but of the Franchise as a whole. It seems like Filoni trying to make Star Wars about HIS characters instead of Lucas's. On the one hand, Star Wars does need to move beyond just being Luke's story. But this comes off as more of a usurpation than actually moving the story forward into the bigger universe of a whole galaxy far, far away.
I get you. I personally hate this whole "Ahsoka the white" thing because its nothing more than Dave FIloni's obsession with Gandalf coming through. Gandalf was literally an angel. An immortal angelic spirit who was sent back by God to complete his mission. Ahsoka...... isn't. Agree about the usurpation thing as well. Also Ahsoka has been bought back from the dead how many times now? Three? Its getting to be a silly and cheap trick. There's not stakes anymore. Apparently she can't die.
I saw Ahsoka for the first time this episode. Rosario has looked the part but been very flat. I hope she will be closer, personality wise to the the Ahsoka from Clone Wars now that a corner has been turned.
Definitely the whole sequence with Huyang and the Purgill was pure Clone Wars Ahsoka. Also the flashback to the Siege of Manadalore really made me realize that Ahsoka has been pretty stoic since Season 7, Rosario’s acting wasn’t really out of character. And now we’re back to pre-expulsion Ahsoka.
Well you have to remember that Rosario is not playing Clone Wars Ashoka. She's playing an older more mature Ashoka. Ashoka was a teenager in the clone wars, here she's a full fledged adult who has been through some serious shit. It wouldn't make any sense for her to have the same personality as teenager Ashoka. I don't know any adults that still act the same as when they were teenagers.
@@richardparadox163no, it was out of character. She was stoic, but she wasn’t cardboard lol. She still joked and made wider movements. She never looked stiff, ever.
@@richardparadox163I haven’t seen the animations but I think there’s a difference between being stoic and stiff. In that episode 3 space fight it didn’t even look like Ahsoka was playing a video game. She’s getting shot at but she’s reacting to everything as if she’s typing an essay. I think that’s more due to the directing than it is to her acting ability because Sabine’s actress was responding to getting shot at in a nonsensical way as well. Like if five people are hunting me down in an fps, I’m not going to cheer after killing one of them. My fight or flight would be still active after the first kill, my heart would still be racing and there would be no time to celebrate small victories. But Sabine is ready to throw a Super Bowl party after gaining a yard at best.
Whether or not Ahsoka entered the world between worlds or was brought back to life, both options are terrible in my opinion. The latter option is obviously stupid. There is no conceivable reason for Ahsoka to "just live" other than Dave Filoni unwilling to kill his favorite character. The world between worlds would be equally ridiculous. I think it's really stupid if there is some random portal to world between worlds in a random ocean. In Rebels Ezra had to figure out how to get inside and touch the Mortis painting from a specific point. I find it ridiculous such a portal is in an ocean and Ahsoka somehow managed to enter it while barely being alive. I believe she dreamed all of it and somehow didn't die despite not breathing for hours. Which is also stupid... And despite all this absurdity, they didn’t even address anything deep or emotional between Anakin and Ahsoka, just vague references to her training and wanting to live. What a missed opportunity for some actual character development! After the episode I wondered what the point of it was. I thought there was going to be a big "aha" moment. Perhaps Ahsoka finally letting go of lingering guilt over leaving Anakin. Anakin encouraging her not to abandon the galaxy/Luke's school. A realization on Ahsoka's part of why Anakin fell and peace knowing he was ultimately redeemed. At this point, we don't even know if Ashoka knows the full circumstances of Anakin's fall, hell we don't even know if she's aware that he basically ended the Empire too. What about how she views Luke? What a waste...
And all I can think when people say ‘this blah was cool’ is the Red Letter Media take on Star Wars fans. You don’t hear Game of Thrones or Lord of the Rings fans say ‘that’s so cool’, because there’s much more depth to the show and source material (Season 1-5 GoT only)
this further proves how shit RLM is. I absolutely see GoT and LoTR fans saying EXACTLY that. Especially humorous considering the pure trash that is Rings of Power and the LoTR movie fans going 'THATS SO COOL!' @@exar1806
6:26 he also wasn't really trying to kill her it's kinda like the GM in D&D game you want your players to feel like your trying to kill them as you are playing the role of the bad guy but you aren't really trying to kill them (or at least you shouldn't be) you want the to feel danger but your really making a fun challenge, it's the same thing here if she thinks there is no stakes in the fight she won't learn the lesson he is trying to teach her so he has to go hard enough for her to actually try be not so hard that he kicks her ass and kills her. Also she is a really strong fighter, she learned from some of the best, I didn't watch the cartoons but I know she was trained by Anakin, Yoda and Obi-Wan and may have been trained by other council members, because of Anakins training she survived order 66 while surrounded by troopers she is a hard nut. Also in the fight on Mustafa she would have won if she had aimed about 6inchs lower, instead she damaged Vaders helmet instead of taking his head, even the best fighters can lose because the other guy just got a lucky hit in.
New republic couldn’t sanction a fleet for Hera’s mission but they can send a fleet of republic cruisers to capture her during the same mission? WTF? This show needed a few more revisions for its scripts
For what it's worth, the proper term to refer to Anakin's conception/birth is just 'virgin birth'. In Catholicism the immaculate conception actually refers to a related, but separate event though it is frequently misunderstood to refer to the conception of Jesus.
I was so happy to see Anakin in his Clone Wars armor alongside Ahsoka. Great episode that took me away from my daily life and into this entertaining and fulfilling episode. Nuff said
I totally agree with you Thor. And I'll just add that Vader did not lose in Fallen Order, Cal and Cere were obviously going to die so they had to escape, and that's what they did. And the Kenobi show never happened.
As an older SW fan. SW died once GL sold to Disney. I'll always have fond memories of episodes 1-6 Rouge One was enjoyable. Everything else Is dead to me. So I have no reason to hate watch Disney's/KK version of SW.
I feel you. Though I enjoy a little more of new Star Wars than just Rogue One, I too just don't care enough about Disney's vision (or lack there of) of Star Wars. As soon as I heard about the new movies I thought "It's the Last Jedi all over again"
This is an amazing episode, I really enjoyed it. I took Ahsoka being in the water so long as her being in stasis or something while Anakin was trying to teach her, I think if she chose to die then she'd have drown
The biggest problem with filoni is that in his mind Star Wars has no rules, no structure. This is why there are a bunch of plot holes and why everything looses meaning.
Bruh nothing in Star Wars has rules nor structures, Lucas made it up as he went with each movie. Stop select hating, if we are gonna nitpick, the entire SW universe is inconsistent and retconed because Lucas isn't an organized person nor does he write consistent lore. This isn't LOTR but a campy space opera that it was always meant to be. People take this like a religion whereas Tolkien fans are more light hearted over an actual lore that does feel like history.
@@Thiago_Alves_Souza Lucas isn't the best story writer for sure but saying that he made it up as he went along is just a lie. Before his first movie to some extent yes, but after the new hope he starded making an actual plan including revenge of the sith. The original movies never had this much plot holes in them. The force was much more limited in what it could do and those rules were fallowed. Filoni on the other hand fallows no structure at all. Nobody can die if they are important, the force can do some things sometimes but it can't in others, and it just makes the actions of the characters stupid and meaningless. Ahsoka and the original trilogy doesn't compare on any level.
@@FelixVyra Kanan is dead, Maul is dead, Satine is dead, Rex is dead and lots of others. You're bugging about Filoni. And he's the one following Lucas best. Bruh the Prequels contradict the sequels, the force and the Jedi aren't remotely that similar in the OT. Lucas is not very structured at all bruh. Nowhere it's hinted its forbidden for Jedi to marry or love. Obi Wan nor Yoda told Luke his father broke his vows by having him and his sister, only that he turned to the dark side.
@@Thiago_Alves_Souza 1. Lucas had nothing to do with the sequels. 2. Luke is a very differently trined jedi compared to how it was done in time of the clone wars. Luke was not only way older and only taught about the force on a surface level in the span of a few days but it makes sense that Yoda and obi-wan would do some things differently after what happened to anakin. The downfall of the jedi was their fault and Yoda's fault in big part. 3. Idk what you are watching but the force doean't work much differently in the pequels than in the OT. Unlike Filoni's star wars Lucas's never had many major plot holes due to unstructured management of the force. 4. With Filoni you can never be sure who is dead and when. Anyone can return at any time, than be killed off again. TBF this is more of a disney problem than filoni but he didn't help it.
I really don't get the complaining in this case of "Anakin/Vader lost again!?" Anakin says that this is a lesson and there were many opportunities for Anakin/Vader to win if that was the intent. He all but GIVES Ahsoka his lightsaber at the end because he wanted her to make a choice. I personally think that if she "killed" Anakin/Vader she would have died in the ocean as it would have meant that she gave up on herself and in a life-or-death situation like drowning, if she couldn't fight to live then nature would just take its course.
Ahsoka has bee stuck in emotional limbo since the end of the Clone Wars. The revelation of her master's fate and the decades long Galactic Civil War has worn her down. This encounter with Anakin allowed her to finally accept the good with the bad and move on.
I think Ahsoka was physically in the WBW because she still has her lightsaber. If it didn't fall through the portal with her it would be at the bottom of that ocean. If she was there in mind only, how was it recovered from being in her hand when she got knocked off the cliff?
Holy crap, someone that actually gets the point. Some of these comments are mind-numbingly painful to read, and I'd hate to be the one responsible for writing anything deeper than a mud-puddle for some of these people.
This episode sealed Anakin -- a character I refused to really get behind ever since TPM, simply because I felt like I was supposed to, and I'm a rebel -- as my favorite Star Wars character. It's not because this redefined or further defined his character, but because it was the missing puzzle piece I needed to link live action Anakin to animation Anakin, and also Anakin to Vader, at least in my mind. Watching this training arc just made it click for me in a way no other media has before. I can't really figure out how to explain it well. The lesson, imo, was exactly what Anakin said: "Live, or die." Ahsoka was becoming worn down by her experiences, perhaps even depressed. She was forcing herself to carry on, her destiny had become a burden. After deciding, or choosing, to live, Ahsoka regained her conviction, her sense of purpose, and her playfulness.
Love this overall, but one tiny point is that Ahsoka's eyes didn't actually turn, it was the lighting lol. Now it was almost certainly lit that way on purpose, but it was just lighting.
Ive commented this a few times but I never watched anything animated. I have loved this show and haven’t found any of it confusing. I think Feloni has in us in mind. Im not sure if that was Anikans ghost or her own mind but thats the point. Hes there for her to figure her s**t out.
THANK YOU! Exactly. He’s there to help figure it out. The best lessons are those that help us work things out for ourselves, not ones written on stone tablets.
Apologies, but I am curious as to why you would limit yourself like this. Why won't you watch anything if it is animated? There are some phenomenal animated movies and series that you are missing out on.
@@wbeytel I do watch animated things. Films and TV series. But Im honestly a Trekkie and only watch SW because of some childhood attachment I have to the originals. What im saying in that comment is I think Ashoka works without seeing any of the Clone Wars or Rebels shows
For me, that’s Filoni all over. When he shines it’s glorious! But then you get dark clouds of pointless gumpf surrounding it where he seems to fall off the wagon a bit.
Filoni could really use a co-writer to flesh out ideas more and tighten up dialogue. He's a great idea man but not the person I'd want writing and directing an episode all on his own.
I wanted Anakin to just have a straight forward heart to heart conversation with her instead of just being unnecessarily vague. It’s like they’re paying Hayden by the word. I wanted to see him admit what he’d done since it seems like Ahsoka has had difficulty connecting Anakin and Vader. I haven’t seen all of clone wars/rebels so maybe I’m wrong on this point. Also if you’re going to go for the spectacle of her fighting Vader in live action just let him be Vader during the fight. It felt like having cool ingredients to me but not delivering at least what I might have liked more.
I don’t like when people go, I think the haters are disingenuous, but I acknowledge many problems, well those problems are way more important to some people , and it’s immersion breaking for me in particular. Keeping it so vague , makes it uninteresting because nothing holds any weight, nothing is explained so it’s not going to affect the story . So it’s a give and take imo
The whole WBW sequence with Anakin, felt like Luke fighting Vader on Dagobah to me (And that is how it makes sense to me - I prolly got it wrong lol). Ashoka facing Anakin/Vader to let go of the past. Live, or die (I do believe it is all in her head it is taking place, and that's why Anakins persona is shifting back and fort) - The force kept her alive in its mysterious ways, and I don't need that explained further. Why it takes place in WBW I don't know. Maybe in memory of Ezra, and he is the goal of her mission? - All in all I enjoyed it. A great episode.
I enjoy the Dagobah Cave Vision Parallel theory the most. It helps everything seem more in line with the rest of how the force works (if Filoni even minds). It especially makes Ahsoka beating him make more sense, bcoz similar to Luke she had to use her aggression to over power him and is Vader for a moment. But then that pokes holes in the point of the vision. Idk, maybe a creator/actor will come out about what it is
There is so much "Girl Boss" in all of Hollywood, including Disney+. But if every time someone cries "Girl Boss!", then everyone that uses it appropriately will get lumped-in with the "boys that cry wolf"!
I think Anakin purposefully lowered his guard after basically winning the fight. In the end it was all about teaching Ashoka as well as seeing what choice she would make in the end. She chose to not strike him down after which she was allowed to return to the living world.
I agree that this Anakin wasnt trying to beat Ashoka. HOWEVER, that loss in Kenobi was simply unacceptable. It would have made a ton more sense if he just left, and thought Obi-Wan was dead.
Even as a "force vision" for the casual observer, there is a risk of watering down Vader. But I feel we're close to going down that road. As for the water, I don't have a big issue with it. I did find it odd, but my investment in this show (or lack thereof) has kept me from really caring about things like that. My issue has been that the characterization of Ahsoka has been very bland (the majority of the cast falls under this as well). You can sum up her personality here as stoic. And as it relates to this episode, I can't say for certainty what lie or wound she got over after the Anikin scene. You can insert anything you want from what you know of her outside this show as what she overcame here, and it would fit.
It would've help tremendously if they built this up better in the earlier scenes. The 'rebirth' trope doesn't work as well when the protagonist isn't given struggles to overcome in the first place. I fear this show will be remembered like The Force Awakens: beloved during release for having catchy moments, a nice feel, and a welcome return of legacy characters, but over time it becomes apparent that there just wasn't that much substance under the hood or that much original going on.
I dunno, the old EU had Darth vader have a few big but Circumstantial losses before Rotj and it didn't damage the fear factor with him. And he still has way more wins then losses when you take all his canon comic and novel stuff into consideration
@GreaterGrievobeast55 I would agree, but the larger audience that didn't read any of the books or comics. Now, if this trend persists, then there might be a good chance of tarnishing Vaders' reputation.
I don't think it was the real WBW, but that it indeed was the real spirit of Anakin reaching out to save Ahsoka. My personal belief was that Ahsoka instinctively set herself in a trance to survive the sea, but her unwillingness to choose decisively between grasping onto life or just letting go and die made Anakin step in to make her choose.
I think she teleported. We’ve seen moments where Kanan disappeared in front of their eyes when he, Ezra, and Ahsoka went into the temple in Rebels Season 2 and Kanan like phased through the wall and Ezra was all “😮”. It’s possible she there but not there at the same time, and when her training was done, she came back.
I think it was the real thing. Hera's son could hear it, after all. That place seems to be special with that Stonehenge circle, so it could well be an entry point to the WBW.
I fall into the camp that is lost. I have no idea what's going on. So for me the episode was just meh. I found some elements interesting but it really felt like it was meant for Clone Wars and Rebels fans which is fine but I'm probably not gonna finish the show
I understand what the purpose of the episode was supposed to be, I just don't think it was done very well. Like they had the message in mind clear as day, but weren't sure how to execute it. I also think people are rating the episode way too high because of the nostalgia dump, but that's neither here nor there.
i feel like the lesson was fine for THIs ahsoka, because i am convinced that this ahsoka and all the other characters are completely different than the ones shown in cw and rebels.
I think almost everything was pretty clear, it wasn't in her head becausen Kanan's son could hear the saber clash, it was the force, regardless of if it was physical or mental or spiritual, it's still the force. The ending of Rebels was changed, but so was the project itself, that was animation, this is live action, changes will take place intended or not. What was left open to interpretation was the lesson itself, I do believe that's intentionall, but I do also think that decision was a bit of a mistake. It does spark conversation, but at the same time, things like character arcs should always be cristal clear (In my opinion)
It is rather my personal thing - I do not like world between worlds. I personally prefer to think it was a dream of sorts, maybe coma and maybe she was visited by Anakin in coma. Don't like World between worlds. Another personal thing - I am a bit tired of every and every story to rotate around Anakin or his family. But it is me being picky. Otherwise - good episode. Especially Jason sensing Ahsoka - very clave move by Felony. Liked it a lot.
That is not only you being picky, it is an unrealistic expectation, given the history Ahsoka had with Anakin. What did you want, her to just forget he existed?
@@shawnwolf5961 It is a bold clime, to call it "expectations". But, yes - I want her to forget Anakin. She is an adult now, a person with major numerous accomplishments, a person with a major experience. She isn't Snips anymore. For a quite a while actually. At that point she already had a life, post Anakin life. How long it was? 40 years at this point in story? And for 40 years she couldn't deal with here memories of her past master? There were no more people in her life? Whole 40 years? But again, it is me being merely picky. I didn't hate it. I just tired, that everything and everywhere had to be tied to Skywalker family.
Should preface this by saying I really enjoyed this episode, minus a few small issues, and have no issue with having ambiguity around the mystic side of Star Wars. But Ashoka should be dead. If she’s physically in the WBW, that’s twice she’s been saved from certain death scenarios. How come we’ve never seen anyone else saved in a similar manner? I don’t really understand the concept of the WBW, and neither does Filoni by the sounds of it, but it seems to be a plot device to keep Ashoka alive more than anything else. We’re told it’s a state between life and death, but Ezra accessed it very much alive, and Ahsoka is the only one given second chances by it. It’s a perfect realm for force ghosts, but not one I’d expect people to be able to leave from so easily. And if she’s imagining the WBW and is in fact in the water for several hours, there’s not any reasonable explanation as to how she survives. Have enjoyed the show so far, if anyone has logical explanations or details I’m missing please let me know, would love nothing more than to be proved wrong. Big fan of the vids Thor, keep up the great work.
I believe it was Anakin himself and the lesson was the title of the episode. To let go of her shadows and guilt of being unable to save him. And to choose to live and be more than just the warrior he was forced to train her to be
I believe that Ahsoka is 15 years old again. I believe the green lightsaber is real even though Ahsoka already brought 2 white lightsabers with her. I believe that Jacen being half twilek could here lightsabers clashing from a mile away, underwater but his fullblooded twilek mother standing next to him could not. I believe it doesn't matter if it's real just how hard you believe it to be real. I believe I can fly. I believe you have to sing that last sentence.
Seriously, Anakin and young Ahsoka were wonderfully realized. A rare treat from modern Star Wars. I just wish it was in service to a better story. The force used to be simple and understandable. Whataboutism: just because something absurd happened somewhere else, doesn't make it excusable here. If the force can save people (teleport them to a different dimension) or resurrect them at will, then what are the stakes in Star Wars anymore? The good guys don't have to earn their victory if the force can just hand one to them regardless (Rey Palpatine). Ahsoka lost the fight and fell off a cliff, yet there's no bad consequence. A running theme for modern Star Wars. Force visions used to aid in character development, not replace it. Luke's vision on Dagobah was fascinating and multilayered, giving insight to his mental state and foreshadowing his destiny. But the best parts of Luke's journey are what he actually did: confronting Vader, learning the truth of his lineage, seeing the conflict within his father, defying the Emperor, redeeming Anakin and fulfilling his destiny. Whatever meaning we're supposed to take away from Ahsoka's vision, it's failing to apply to the current storyline. Why should fighting Anakin in her head / in the force have a seemingly greater impact on her than fighting him in real life? When have we seen Ahsoka suffer from the pain of her past? (Perhaps her learning of Anakin's redemption would be a relevant scene, if it existed.) When has Ahsoka lost the will to live and to fight? Given how thin Ahsoka has been characterized thus far, what will be the meaningful difference between Ahsoka the grey and Ahsoka the white?
7:10 i usually respect your opinions despite disagreeing with them, but this one sounds like a real reach/copium take ngl... who is vader putting a show for? the viewers? does being a force ghost make the jedi self aware that they're in a tv show? everything else sounds ok in this video but i did a double take when you were expanding on your point at this timestamp.. heheh
I'm a big fan of Nerdrotic, Disparu, and others from the FNT gang. Normally I really like their points and perspectives, but in this, they are obviously pulling the click-meter and it seems harsh and shouty rather than informative. All you have to be is at least a casual fan or TCW or Rebels (and I'm not talking loremaster) to grok this series. When I see stuff like that (bad reviews for what is an objectively good series) I shrug and move on. Social media doesn't ditate my likes or dislikes. That it apparently does for a lot of folks makes me a little sad. Rogue One, Andor and now Ahsoka are series that I'm fully invested in. "Shadow Warrior" blew my doors off. 😀
“It is time for you to face your guilt and free yourself by choosing!” - The Father I think this quote fits the final part of the lesson Anakin was teaching her by having her face his dark self.
One could also surmise that Anakin purposefully let Ahsoka win to put her in the position that she had to choose whether or not to kill him...thus helping to finalize his lesson that she is more than just a soldier and that death is not her legacy. There are a lot of different ways to interpret what happened in the WBW between these two. I think personally, that it was the real spirit of Anakin and he wanted to teach her the lesson that he learned upon his redemption. Unless Dave comes out and spells it all out, I think that there will never be a definite answer to the meaning behind all that happened and it is up to each of us to draw our own lessons from it based on our experiences and understanding of the Force and it's ways.
Ahsoka beating Anakin was no issue for me. My problem is that this show plays so fast and loose with the mechanics of this universe to force things to take place that it takes you out of the story. Its hard to immerse yourself in a world where anything can and does happen aimply so the writer can make certain events happen, rather than events follow in a logical procession. The stakes are always abysmally low because of it as well. This issue isnt exclusive to this show, Lucasfilm just cant seem to put together a strong narrative these days. I'll give Ahsoka points for fan service, and at least an attempt at spectacle, but this doesn't strike me as a story that will be very memorable after its over. Got three episodes left to turn it around, I guess we'll just see.
I can’t see why she shouldn’t beat him. If it’s really him, he obviously wouldn’t be fighting to really kill her, but to teach her a lesson. If it’s in her head then beating him is just her being determined to finish what she started instead of giving up. I’m surprised anyone is upset about that. You’re right about the consequences. Very little matters and what was a consequence in a previous episode is swept away conveniently in the next. I was afraid they would fix that map sphere when I saw it in two halves like it was cut with a knife (after it had been burned through its core by a lightsaber lol) but in the end they don’t even need it so why did it matter so much. It’s a problem in all modern Disney and most modern movies too. Still I enjoyed seeing Hayden swinging a lightsaber again
Of course the stakes are low. The title character won't die. But I don't need life and death situations all the time to keep me interested. In every hero movie you know the main hero won't die and thwart the bad guy's plan. That doesn't mean they aren't exciting or fun to watch. Besides, I can absolutely see Sabine dying in the finale, perhaps sacrificing herself or whatever.
@@henrimemelord nobody said Ahsoka had to die. And Thrawn shouldn't be thwarted, at least not in this series. We need villains that should be taken seriously, and actions have to have consequences. Both are sorely lacking here.
On the whole WBW sequence is real or not, allow me to use a scene from another movie: “Professor Dumbledore. Is this real or is it in my head?” “Why of course it’s in your head. But what makes you think it isn’t real?”
I love how certain fans can suspend their disbelief to Ashoka surviving in the water for several hours but can fathom Leia using the force ti survive in space.
I'm not sure surviving it is what most people didn't like about that, rather it was how goofy it looked. There's a reason why many call it "Leia Poppins".
@Magneticitist yes, they were searching while she was in the WBW. Hera's son could sense that. When she was finished with Anakin and the water was rising for her, they were already searching in the right area, flying "very low". It's only hard to understand if you don't want to.
That was really Anakin. When Ahsoka says she won’t fight him, Anakin says “I’ve heard that before,” which is a direct callback to Luke Skywalker, who also tried to avoid fighting Darth Vader. ONLY ANAKIN KNOWS THIS. Ahsoka could not have known that. So, that is really Anakin is some form.
Many viewers - me included - seem to struggle to get the point of this Anakin flashback sequence. Yet you seem so sure it must be about Ahsoka's lingering guilt and trauma. I could buy that as the purpose of this sequence if she was actually shown to be suffering from such guilt in this series. If it was hindering her journey somehow or if it was causing her to falter in critical moments. Or better yet, if her lingering fear and doubt was what caused her to lose the fight to Baylon. But that's not what we have seen of Ahsoka. She has been calmly and confidently following this video game plot, and it seems like she lost the fight to Baylon fair and square, because he was simply the better duelist. You can't hint that a character has been suffering from crippling PTSD, you have to show it. Otherwise it doesn't feel real to the audience.
Agreed. Without the proper setup it just feels like bringing back a legacy character for empty fan service. I mean, this scene could've worked well and been powerful, but that's not quite what we got.
I guess my biggest gripe with this episode was it felt like an excuse to have Anakin in a lightsaber duel. Though people would probably say it was boring, I would have preferred a more rational discourse between Master and Apprentice. Ahsoka is already a good fighter with plenty of determination. I don't think a lesson in tough love from Anakin was the best way to help her find "enlightenment". I liked seeing Jason showing his force aptitude and really hope Ahsoka and Ezra teach him how to wield the force. I also thought the purgil looked amazing. Have to admit that I had Dory from Nemo pop into my head. "I wish I could speak whale...." I'm surprised that Morgan didn't already try that given Night sisters attunement with animals.
He lets her win. She did not beat him. She’s a celestial just like Anakin. They can only be killed by the sword of mortis. That Anakin the father, demonstrated by him using light and dark side. That is what Filoni is doing, without saying it. Once KK is gone, we will see Filoni’s true vision. It’s meant to be ambiguous for now.
I'm glad there was a decent episode in "Ahsoka". It was nice to see Anakin and Ahsoka in live action in the Clone Wars flashback. None of that was bad. But it's still set in a show that's pretty boring and not very well written. I don't complain out of hatred, I complain out of love. Because I want all of this to get better, really. I want to love Star Wars. But you can't force us to love what isn't good.
Seriously stfu. What are you still living in the 80's? If you really loved SW you would understand that it will never reach these imaginary standards you have set, especially now that Disney owns it. I'd imagine people like you bitched and moaned over the prequals too even though it was George Lucas at the helm. Find anyone who knows the franchise at a high level and they will tell you that this episode was the best thing to come out of SW since RotS.
I agree with you, even though I like episode 4 and 5 and generally am positively oriented towards this show. The overall major storyline and the way it is told is just not doing it for me.
Another example that is was the real Anakin was when they're about to fight, Ahsoka says she will not fight him and Anakin replies that he heard that before. He was referring to Luke saying that to Vader in ROTJ, something Ahsoka wouldn't know because she wasn't there. Here's how I think Anakin's scene is: In the Mortis arc of the clone wars, the Father wanted Anakin to replace him and maintain balance in the force. Even though he said no. Anakin didn't learn to become a force ghost like Obi-Wan and Yoda. So how did he become one? He was needed to officially replace the Father now that he destroyed the sith(ignoring the sequels). That's why he is in the World Between Worlds since it is connected to Mortis. He pulled Ahsoka into it after losing to Baylon and after completing her training, he sent her back to exactly where she was like how she ended back on Malachor after Ezra saved her.
I don't think this was a very good episode. I haven't seen rebels and all this Anakin stuff came out of the blue for me. Ahsoka was never really strugling with her past or with Anakin in this show. Not sure why she had to resolve these issues now and the story suffered from it. I understand a lot of rebels fans want to see Ahsoka & Anakin together again. But this show is supposed to be about stopping Trawn. The other characters seem to be waiting around the henge thing for no real reason other then "Ahsoka needs to have her clone wars moment for the fans" and the writers needed the force as a deus ex machina to make it even vaguely believable. I am generally enjoying the show but I wish it would go on and tell its own story instead of trying to retell an old one.
On Thor saying to compliment DSW once in a while- Uh, no. If someone continually makes mistakes or a bad product, they should not be complimented on the lesser stuff that's good. They need to listen to the criticism and fix the core SUBSTANCE of that product or stop making that product. DSW keeps shoving out a lot of bad products. They either need to fix it or stop making it. I work in visual design. It doesn't matter if you get a few things right but have the core of the design not satisfy the customer. Ya, did it wrong. Fix it. On another topic, put me on the (pseudo) science side rather than magical. I never had a problem with midichlorians. They didn't create the force; they were just a conduit for its usage. It didn't take away from the "magic" of the Force, but it did help it be more than just magic - which doesn't exist anyway. As for Ashoka's vision, it was just that, a vision. She never physically went anywhere (that the literal ocean current wasn't carrying her). Now it may have been a "force" vision aka, dreaming+. Was Anakin's consciousness actually there? Who the F knows? Is Filoni okay with fans and viewers not knowing? Apparently so. Is that good writing? ABSOLUTELY NOT. This "it's whatever you want it to be" mentality that some creators do is just a lack of skill in conceptualizing or writing. The storyteller has the responsibility to know what they mean and communicate that to the audience, especially in a well-established IP like SW. It just so happens I watched the Clone Wars Yoda (mini) series after the Ash ep. Yoda went through several visions, but they were all visions, not transport to another realm. And it was clear when he was talking with someone in reality (voice of Qui-Gon) or simply seeing a visual illusion (Qui-Gon, and other Jedi at the temple). Yoda also fought Sidious, who was sharing the same force vision. Yoda and Sidious were there, but Anakin (who was knocked out by Sidious) was not. Point being, back then, the writers knew how to tell the story in an unconfusing way - because they paid attention to what they were doing and made a good product (see first paragraph).
It's good to see Anakin again, and the young Ahsoka was excellent, and there were a few cool sequences (including good lightsabre duelling for the first time in Ahsoka) but that doesn't make it a good episode, and I still think it's a flawed show. I'm a clone wars fan so seeing even moments of that in live-action was fun - in fact I think that's what Disney should've focused on a decade ago. But, there are still issues. Why does Hera hear the lightsabres? Why do the Republic to send three battleships to bring back Hera when they had none to send when she was warning them of Thrawn's return? Why does Hera tell her ships to avoid the whales and then they don't? How is Ahsoka underwater without imbibing any of it? Why does Huyang assume Ahsoka and Sabine split up? Why does he hide from Hera when she lands? Why was Ahsoka hiding her white cloak away for this moment? How does Chopper locate her? Why does Hera leave her son alone with Huyang on the surface of a planet she isn't sure is safe? You mentioned Ahsoka only being 13 in a previous video but she has trained since she was very little. These may seem like nitpicks to some but they're indicative of a lack of forethought that runs throughout the whole show. Plus, it's still very slow. We're five episodes in and hardly anything has happened. This episode did feel like less of a drag than the others but I can't say that at the end of it I was satisfied. Because of their previous productions I do now have, and have had for a while, an inbuilt bias against Disney Star Wars (almost a defence mechanism to protect the memory of Star Wars that I did like or even love) so to have any hope of winning me, and people who feel the same way, back they need to be consistently amazing for quite a while, and I can't say this episode was amazing.
This was Ahsoka's cave moment. Complaining about her beating Vader/Anakin in this episode is like complaining Luke beat Vader in the cave. It doesn't matter if this is the "real" Anakin or not. What even is the "real" Anakin? It can be the "real' Anakin AND the Anakin that exists within her and the force/collective consciousness. It's (IMO) a silly thing to get hung up on. She "beat" him because that was the lesson. Best episode yet.
I understand that Cere Junda couldn't have won against Vader from a canon standpoint, but she got as close as pretty much anyone who died fighting him. I think she was clearly more disciplined and had experienced the Dark and Light sides and chosen to return. She knew who Vader was what he did and her mission was to stop a monster who would destroy the legacy of the Jedi. She knew the galaxy was better with the knowledge they had spread out and archived instead of being lost. Vader got lucky that Cere got a little too confident and let her guard down. She should have seen that stab coming a mile away, but she did such damage to him that she was just determined to save Cal and everyone else she loved as well as the galaxy from Vader. He didn't even finish her off. I think he probably enjoyed that fight as he hadn't been challenged like that in a long time. I'd say that what Ahsoka experienced was her Jedi Trials, and it very well may have been despite her not being a Jedi. The Force may see her as a torchbearer for the Light, especially as she's the embodiment of the Daughter. What if the scene at the end of Rebels comes at the end of this show? I know that Sabine is narrating as if it were during the OT and just after, but it could have very well been after these events. Maybe she was remembering Ezra because they won't be able to save him or he'll really sacrifice himself for the greater good.
To me the main lesson came across as FAITH. Up to this point it seems her stoic attitude has actually been the result of Ahsoka doubting the Jedi (when she left and their role in the war), doubting Anakin (what he passed on to her), doubting Sabine (‘can I count on you’) and doubting herself (Baylan: your legacy like your master’s is death and destruction). Anakin tells her ‘we must change with the times’ and THAT is pretty much same thing as Qui-Gon: ‘focus on the the present / the living force and Yoda: “never his mind on WHERE HE WAS…..” in other words, Anakin is saying trust the force, let go…. And then she is Baptized before emerging from the waters… white new clothing… Jonah in the whale… now she has an almost giddy attitude regarding ‘where they may end up” but no problem, she trusts the force now, and smiles (change in overall attitude) I think she was physically in the world between worlds because the scanners found nothing for hours, until the lesson was done, and she would not know about Anakin hearing Luke say “I will not fight you”. 9 out of 10 for me.
@@exar1806 (since 'baptized') She no longer carries the weight of her sins and no longer carries the weight of the sins of others that came before - she can now hear more clearly what the force is telling her without all those other distractions and worries.
I think that part of what people are missing here is something we’ve wanted respected and included for so long that Disney has ignored. The Hero’s Journey - So much of this episode is in Easter Eggs. The very title Shadow Warrior is referring to a Kurosawa film called Kagemusha that George Lucas was an executive producer for. What’s the lesson? The lesson every hero needs at the moment. Jor-El taught Kal-El about vanity, not to beat himself up about feelings of vanity, but not to get consumed by it. Luke- Obi-Wan and Yoda taught him about trust and how the real world wasn’t black and white. Ahsoka - she was on her way to a fall. She was so consumed by fear that it paralyzed her. Anakin knew about fear and where that leads. Anakin taught her that the darkness is in everyone but not to be afraid of it anymore. She could control it if she didn’t die. If the chose to live and fight. Anakin taught her about fear… and when her fear of becoming Vader was gone “there is hope for you yet.” Hope- the opposite of fear. Anakin/Vader lost on purpose. He had to put her in a position to feel anger, to feel the dark side. You saw Ahsoka eyes turn - but in that moment he engineered she didn’t give in. He couldn’t beat her for her to have the chance to be in this moment. What did he make her feel through the lesson? Pride, remorse, confusion, suffering, fear… all the emotions that led him to darkness. But she didn’t give in. Anakin freed her. Helped her trust the force again. She chose to live -
I really liked it, but the more I think about how hard they missed landing a really important lesson with ahsoka. If they made anakin teach her more that life is more precious, he knows about that more than anyone, then it would be better. Just needed a clearer lesson
I don’t think there is really anything particularly wrong with the episode, it just seems meh. I think this would have worked better animated. I think people that aren’t really up on rebels or clone wars won’t only be lost, but think this is some kind of fan fiction.. space whales, zombie inquisitors, witches, world between worlds etc
I want to like this show, I really do. But the meh is strong in this one. Less fan service, more plot development please. There's only 3 eps left and not that much has happened.
I don't understand the trend in sci-fi/fantasy for unnecessary ambiguity. Subtext ≠ ambiguity. If you are not going to answer the question, then do not raise the question. This is a problem throughout SF/F writing across mediums.
It wasn't a girl boss moment. I hate those and it wasn't one. He let her win clearly. To teach her something about herself. He obviously couldn't die; he's already dead.
@@jimdaniels7531 I mean what is there to be excited over with modern Star Wars? 🤷♂️ Unless Thrawn comes in and removes the First Order from the current canon, I just don’t care
I think it's pretty clear that the Rebels scene is a light retcon and it's the same moment as the one in Ahsoka, but an understandable one. At the time of Rebel's ending, Filoni wanted to add some closure to Ahsoka's story and didn't know that he would get to do another show with her, so he added 'Ahsoka the white' because he knew that's how he wanted to end her story. Now that he has the Ahsoka show he gets to tell the full story. So all parts of the Rebels Epilogue are still true to the overall story, but now we just get the full picture. I just see the Rebels version as the way that Sabine described the moment in her ending monologue.
As a fervent anti-Disney Star Wars fan, I honestly do not care if you like it. If it brings you excitement and joy then I am happy for you. What I personally cannot abide however is the defense and rationalization of objectively bad content. Just because you like it does not make it good. On my side of things, I will admit there have been a handful of fun and exciting moments in this new era, but that does not excuse Disney Star Wars as a whole.
I refuse to watch this show but I’m very happy for Hayden. The clips I’ve seen of him he looks very good and it’s cool to see live action Anakin and Ahsoka together.
@@nik021298I’ve seen every Star Wars movie/show. I’m not watching this and everything after because Lucasfilm has lost me. Like I said it’s great to see Hayden as Anakin again.
It’s just a mid episode with cheap fan service and people automatically call it a masterpiece. Those are the standards nowadays. It’s supposed to be Ahsoka’s tv show yet she’s the most boring part of the series, should’ve called it Rebels season 4 instead. At this point Ahsoka it’s just an overused self insert character by Filoni.
@@cacuevas no it was a summary of your whingin. Go watch something else, I'm loving this and understanding the characters pretty well. Why keep bitching about something incessantly? Go outside my guy.
Yeah Anakin was testing Ahsoka. He wasn't fighting her for real, he wasn't trying to kill her. He was pushing her, testing her, training her. Almost like he's her master... huh. How about that. Her winning was passing the test, not defeating him in a life-or-death all-out fight. Think thematically about the stories you see, people, don't just take what is shown at face value, don't be fully literal, think about the emotions and purposes and deeper storytelling. There is always something going on underneath the surface in a good story sequence.
Of the five episodes so far, this was, for me the best from start to finish; however, it's not without flaws. The Anakin/Ahsoka scenes were some of the best Star Wars that I've seen & I enjoyed seeing Hayden performing the role again - he was great. Getting us engaged in a philosophical debate about certain elements of a Star Wars story is always entertaining & the VFX/score were again well done. Huyang provided some quality comedic bits and seeing the Purgill was visually awesome. Hopefully the rest of the season is equally good. That being said, I still believe Hera is a poor parent as her willingness to expose her child to situations unknown yet probably dangerous is questionable at best. Having Jacen along seems like a crutch written in to provide an easy way to rescue Ahsoka. And while I did enjoy the WBW scenes, I question the need to use it as it, IMO, dilutes many of the events from the OT. If we assume that Ahsoka really went to the WBW & that is really Anakin then how did Ahsoka get there? Ezra, at least, had to figure it out at a real temple & he physically pulled Ahsoka into it. How does Anakin know anything about the WBW? If it's that easy for Force Ghosts to just grab someone out of reality at a critical moment in time, then why didn't Qui Gon do so with Anakin in the prequels or Obi Wan with Luke on Hoth? The whole WBW concept is interesting, and I liked the Ezra/Palpatine conflict with it, but it has now been used twice to save Ahsoka's life and I am beginning to look at it more as a crutch for keeping Ahsoka alive & well than as a real story element.
thats why its left for us to guess did she actually go to the BWB or was it all just in her head while she was floating on the water, and did she just wake up because she sank finally.. at least thats what i got out of it..
I enjoyed Episode 4 more, but episode 5 was for the most part pretty good. Ahsoka's vision was good, but a little more routine and bland than my expectations. I expected something more grand. Something bigger than Ahsoka resolves her personal feelings. It is been my theory that we have not yet seen the scene from Rebels in Live Action. There will be a second attempt to find Ezra.
Hey Thor, always love your responses. With all respect, this episode proves star wars fans prefer member berries and nostalgia over story telling. This episode was almost 50 minutes and nothing really happened to move the story forward, and we still haven't seen Thrawn.
The majority of the episode is dedicated to the visions of the past with Anakin, which furthered Ahsoka’s development both emotionally and as a teacher and will seemingly impact how she acts from here on out. She also figured out how to follow Sabine. To say that it’s not substantive isn’t really accurate; however, it is true that this episode was less about plot than character, and in that respect is not as much about “story”.
It's isn't the Thrawn show though, it is Ahsoka. The character is broken, and is completely different than how she was in TCW or Rebels. And I believe to defeat Thrawn, she will need her padawan, she will need to be in balance witth the force, I mean she was barely able to hold her own against Baylan. She is out of balance, the team is out of balance. And the chosen one returning, to complete her training to become a jedi is an important step.
Vader keeps losing and he's going to get a reference under The Worf Effect on TVTropes. A character we are informed is the strongest person in the cast, but often gets taken out fast and easily to establish as very powerful.
It’s obviously true that Anakin was not trying to win the fight. I think that’s not even subjective. I also believe it was really Anakin and Ashoka was physically there. Maybe pulled in by anakin. This explains why they couldn’t find her for a long. It’s also real because Jacen and even Hera heard the duel. However I think that even Ashoka questioned the realness of it after she woke up. Then Jacen said he heard the lightsabers and she looked a little elated and started to ask him more questions. Either way this was the trials for Ahsoka and I think that now she is a Jedi Master. Seeing as how she proudly referred to her starship as a “Jedi” starship. Just my take. 😊🤷🏻♂️
Before watching:
Did anyone also catch that when ahsoka says, "I will not fight you." And anakin goes, "I heard that one before."
Anakin low-key referencing luke
If she was having a unconscious vision then this reference is silly because she wasn't there when Luke fought Vader in ROTJ.
He was referencing when Ahsoka said she wouldn't fight him (Vader) in rebels. when the were on the sith planet
@@royalrexfordI don't think that's her having a halu moment, or a force test.
I think that's actually Anakin post death. Aside from how he talks, I think Jacen hearing two lightsabers fight also helps build into the idea of him being actually there.
@jeramydavin4061 she said, "I won't leave you" in rebels
@@royalrexford anakin was there on the death star. This being is probably a force essence of him.
It was painfully obvious that Anakin let Ahsoka beat him. He gave her that window to see if she was learning. She won't learn anything if he kills her.
Yeah dudes are just ready to be offended and call stuff woke
And she won't learn anything either if she kills him ;)
It was Ahsoka's vision or dream. Technically she wins against her own demons. The outcome was contingent on her repudiating Anakin's flawed teaching from her subconscience.
@@donramon9723what??
I thought Hayden clearly communicated this as well.
I think it has to be Anakins force ghost or essence since he references his encounter with Luke in Episode VI. An Anakin from Ahsokas memory would have no knowledge of that
And Jason could hear them fighting
@twars8901 yeah exactly, it happened, she was really there, anakins within the force, they were on a force strong planet, this was an amazing episode.
I also think ti was actual Anakin. Having said that - Ahsoka at this point in time already met Luke and spend time with him on his "Jedi temple Planet". So he could have told her about his encouter with Vader. So she might have known what he said to him.
@@twars8901 Hera could hear them too and she's not force sensitive
@@clairemadeinheaven It's entirely possible that she is. Even while the jedi were around, they didn't recruit all force sensitives, and often force sensitives who were untrained would excel at things like piloting where their subconscious use of the force can give them improved reactions - like how Anakin was the only human to pilot a pod racer as a child, because he was subconsciously using the force. Also similar to how Han Solo is widely considered to be an untrained force sensitive for the same reasons.
That doesnt mean she has the potential to become a jedi or use the force under pressure though.
I saw it as Anakin teaching Ahsoka to overcome her guilt. Anakin’s final lesson was teaching her to embrace her legacy, and to realize she’s more than her mistakes, just like him. This wasn’t her mind telling her to live, it was Anakin reaching out to her through the Force.
I also saw some people asking how she survived in the water, and I think that’s easily explained since she was in a Force Trance. Even the most mediocre Jedi on the brink of death are capable of amazing feats through the Force.
I think people wanted more discussion between them about why he fell, but I think that’s coming later. There’s lines in the trailer we haven’t heard yet as well. This might not even be the last flashback, but I’m expecting Force ghost Anakin to appear again.
Excellent
I dont see how it was about embracing her legacy tbh. How did you get to that conclusion?
I think in one of the ahsoka trailers she is speaking to anakin about thrawn but his force ghost wasn't on screen in the trailer.
But it does imply that his force ghost will appear again.
@@qwertyvypez For my part, it ties in with what Baylon said to her when they were fighting.
Agreed
Ahsoka in TWBW finishing her training is reminiscent of Kanan Jarrus becoming a Jedi knight in the Jedi temple by a temple guard who reveals himself as the Grand Inquisitor. “By the right of the Council, by the will of the Force, Kanan Jarrus, you may rise…you are what I once was, a knight of the Jedi order.”
My thoughts exactly. Kanan even teleported there into that training sequence away from Ezra and Ahsoka.
I feel it similar to Ahsoka and Anakin. She’s there in the water but also not.
And that was ten time better than this episode
I was hoping for this moment too! After all, Anakin WAS on the council so by the right of the council (myself) and the will of the Force (which he is now a part of), Jedi Knight Ahsoka Tano you may rise.
What is TWBW ? 🤔
@@evok993 The World Between Worlds (too long to type out but here we are 😂🤣😂)
Ahsoka was carrying a lot of doubts about her training, and that may be linked to why she never finished training Sabine. The idea was presented a few episodes ago, when Ahsoka compares the way she walked away from Anakin to the way she walked away from Sabine. Perhaps she feared that she was somehow tainted by Anakin's training. That the seeds of the Dark side were in him even during the Clone Wars. I believe that Anakin was trying to show her that he taught her what she needed to survive through a brutal war, a purge, and a rebellion. In the end she embraces her training, and that enables her to survive once again.
I have problems with this scene, but I have to admit this seems the best interpretation yet.
Nah. It was just an uninspired lesson used to justify a really cool looking interactive flashback/nostalgia. They seriously lead with the nostalgia flashback in the script and came up with a lesson later. Even a more simple lesson like how to punch through a coffin in Kill Bill vol 2, with a new character introduction flashback held more merit than that “I’m teaching you how to live” bs.
Why even try to train Sabine? Maybe because teaching someone who can't wield the force has zero chance of creating a dark side user? Meanwhile she's been ignoring the more appropriate candidate for training who does carry risk if she screws up: Jacen.
It is possible that Ahsoka indeed never was in the water all that time. Only when she returned to life. That would explain why they couldn't find her earlier despite all their sweeps.
Yeah that's what I thought
The problem with that is that it was unnecessary to have her fall into the water or by the water in the first place. People are breaking down whether she was in the water or not or how she survived. Which is a dumb conversation to have in the first place. Even if it comes up again where she’s rescued into the world between worlds and other characters see her disappear, it’s still a dumb thing to talk about because the truth surrounding the mystery of the water scene is simply that she wasn’t in the water in the first place. Nothing that adds depth to the story, just that she wasn’t there.
That’s because Filoni isn’t a trained writer and doesn’t understand the concept of “3 seconds or less.” As a writer you don’t want audiences arguing over the logic of a scene. You want them to revisit the themes of the scene but you’re adding confusion and not clarity if the themes themselves lack logic.
It was not in her head because Jason could hear the lightsabers clashing.
That doesn’t mean it was not in her head. Force users can hear other people’s thoughts all the time.
@@TheLFBShe said “i wont fight you” and he said “i heard it before”. It is what Luke told him in ROTj, so no way Ahsoka have this knowledge
@@magaakhilgov5260i thought that was a reference to her saying that at malachor against him
@@magaakhilgov5260 She already met luke ant this point and spend time with him. So he might have told her about that encoutner. but still i also think it was real Anakin.
@@stauxin91093 on malachor she said “ i wont leave you, not this time”
I still think it’s possible we haven’t seen the final scene of rebels yet and it’s weird that hardly anyone is considering that as a possibility. Also as far as whether or not it’s anakin:
“I won’t fight you”
“I’ve heard that before”
Only anakin would have context for that. As far how Ashoka came back as the white, I think it’s because of the daughter being in her. Whether that will ever be spelled out? Who knows
I‘m with you on that. I feel like the Rebels ending is about to come… maybe in a next season or something.
Im very much sure that this whole world between worlds sequence is ment to be ambigious its been so long since we had something to make theories about
For me the Ahsoka being in the water was because she just got there. Force Anakin was watching her fight Baylon and as she lost the fight and fell he pulled her into the world between worlds. This is why he said he did not expect to see her here so soon, as he had tried to train her to survive, to live. So his lesson was to remind her to fight to live and stay alive.
Force ghosts are ethereal.
They don't need a physical portal.
So why was he in the WBW in the first place? Just a good place to be hanging around.
The problem with the Kenobi fight isn't that Vader loses. It's that Vader is an idiot who doesn't have a big enough attention span to spare a minute to check that the person whose murder he obsessed over for a decade is actually dead. It's hard to take seriously a villain who acts more like a dog that's distracted by a squirrel than like the cunning and ruthless Sith Lord he's supposed to be. The Ahsoka fight does not have that problem, and since Anakin is trying to teach Ahsoka a lesson, his goal was for her to 'win.' There's no plot-induced stupidity or disrespect to the character in the outcome the way there was in Kenobi.
Exactly! When Thor mentioned these shows not disrespecting Vader's character I thought "well, it's a bit late for that".
Sorry but Vader has been disrespected by even things you guys love. Force Unleashed turned Vader into Galen's B word and full of lore inconsistencies but fans worship that game. Vader is beat from an inch of his life and that game made me lose any admiration and fear the original trilogies created about Vader.
At least in Kenobi that's an actual master who trained him and knows his weaknesses, so I can buy that. And that scene was made to explain the OT blunder of Obi Wan calling him "Darth" like it was his first name and not a sith title.
Originally Darth was a first name so at least they tried to rightfully retcon this better.
isnt the moral of the story that the dark side leads to making mistakes and thats why us people shouldnt give in to hatred and anger?
@Thiago_Alves_Souza TFU is a computer game. It's never once been pushed as being on the same level as the films; it was barely accepted at EU level.
Next you'll be telling us that "Masters of the Teras Kasi" did more damage to Luke than the sequels.
@happybuttersblast8334 but that is a broad brush description of the PT/OT that doesn't really account for OP's (accurate) claim - making characters incompetent waters them down, making them seem stupid and, in Vader's case, less of a threat.
Anakin finally taught her that his fall was not her fault nor her legacy, she will not fall like him, and rejects guilt and and fear
Exactly.
This ^
Yeah this exactly. The main message was pretty clear I think. Some parts are ambiguous but the most important thing isn’t.
@@Blafina
Truth.
I’m still confused about what exactly Anakin was teaching Ahsoka
He was teaching her to let go of the guilt and personal responsibility she felt about him falling to the dark side. She had entered into this moody state of near apathy, being in a literal “gray” area she couldn’t move beyond. Anakins lesson was teaching her to move on and live. Stopping and wallowing is death (which almost happened when she fought Baylon)
Could be wrong, that’s just what I took away from it
@@JipperMcGroot interesting
She is unwilling to risk. She's worried about looking backward. She would have never traveled with the purgil before the force vision.
She was essentially paralysed by the past and her fear of it reoccurring in the future.
She seemed to me, to be to be too detatched in her relationship with Sabine - and imo its one of the reasons why they failed in ep4. Ahsoka was basically. Greater good. Absolutely nothing else. All the while unable to comprehend Sabines perspective on the choice she had.
@@JipperMcGrootbest way of putting it and that’s how I see it too. It’s why she’s so light figuratively and literally afterwards
Hate porn on star wars gets clicks, it's really that simple. The show is not really good, but it's not bad either, with the last two episodes actually being fairly decent, and having some really good scenes/moments. The perfect example is Andor; lots of people/channels hating on it because that was the thing to do if you make videos on star wars after BOB and Kenobi, but it was actually the best made show of all these D+ star wars shows. I think Ahsoka could have been made a lot better, but you can tell there is definitely some budget constraints playing a role here, not to mention the current state of affairs at Disney and in Hollywood...
My problem with Asokah becoming a "messiah-like" figure, is that this is exactly what Luke or Annikin Solo were supposed to be - the guys who were supposed to bring balance to the Force and fix a galaxy broken by Sith machinations. This comes off as if they're trying to make Asokha the main character, not just of this series, but of the Franchise as a whole. It seems like Filoni trying to make Star Wars about HIS characters instead of Lucas's.
On the one hand, Star Wars does need to move beyond just being Luke's story. But this comes off as more of a usurpation than actually moving the story forward into the bigger universe of a whole galaxy far, far away.
I get you. I personally hate this whole "Ahsoka the white" thing because its nothing more than Dave FIloni's obsession with Gandalf coming through. Gandalf was literally an angel. An immortal angelic spirit who was sent back by God to complete his mission. Ahsoka...... isn't.
Agree about the usurpation thing as well. Also Ahsoka has been bought back from the dead how many times now? Three? Its getting to be a silly and cheap trick. There's not stakes anymore. Apparently she can't die.
Filoni has retconned so many times it was only a matter of time before he did it to himself
Agreed, at least he doesn't discriminate with retconning. I'll give him that.
I agree 😂😂
"Continuity is for wimps"
-George Lucas
Dave learned from the best 😉 😂
Cartoons are just content sometimes. There is too much of it. The live action is more canon. for good or bad.
But he'll never retcon the sequels...
I saw Ahsoka for the first time this episode. Rosario has looked the part but been very flat. I hope she will be closer, personality wise to the the Ahsoka from Clone Wars now that a corner has been turned.
Definitely the whole sequence with Huyang and the Purgill was pure Clone Wars Ahsoka.
Also the flashback to the Siege of Manadalore really made me realize that Ahsoka has been pretty stoic since Season 7, Rosario’s acting wasn’t really out of character. And now we’re back to pre-expulsion Ahsoka.
Well you have to remember that Rosario is not playing Clone Wars Ashoka. She's playing an older more mature Ashoka. Ashoka was a teenager in the clone wars, here she's a full fledged adult who has been through some serious shit. It wouldn't make any sense for her to have the same personality as teenager Ashoka. I don't know any adults that still act the same as when they were teenagers.
@@richardparadox163no, it was out of character. She was stoic, but she wasn’t cardboard lol. She still joked and made wider movements. She never looked stiff, ever.
@@richardparadox163I haven’t seen the animations but I think there’s a difference between being stoic and stiff. In that episode 3 space fight it didn’t even look like Ahsoka was playing a video game. She’s getting shot at but she’s reacting to everything as if she’s typing an essay. I think that’s more due to the directing than it is to her acting ability because Sabine’s actress was responding to getting shot at in a nonsensical way as well. Like if five people are hunting me down in an fps, I’m not going to cheer after killing one of them. My fight or flight would be still active after the first kill, my heart would still be racing and there would be no time to celebrate small victories. But Sabine is ready to throw a Super Bowl party after gaining a yard at best.
Well, now that she's 15 years old again she can redevelop.
Whether or not Ahsoka entered the world between worlds or was brought back to life, both options are terrible in my opinion. The latter option is obviously stupid. There is no conceivable reason for Ahsoka to "just live" other than Dave Filoni unwilling to kill his favorite character.
The world between worlds would be equally ridiculous. I think it's really stupid if there is some random portal to world between worlds in a random ocean. In Rebels Ezra had to figure out how to get inside and touch the Mortis painting from a specific point. I find it ridiculous such a portal is in an ocean and Ahsoka somehow managed to enter it while barely being alive.
I believe she dreamed all of it and somehow didn't die despite not breathing for hours. Which is also stupid...
And despite all this absurdity, they didn’t even address anything deep or emotional between Anakin and Ahsoka, just vague references to her training and wanting to live. What a missed opportunity for some actual character development! After the episode I wondered what the point of it was. I thought there was going to be a big "aha" moment. Perhaps Ahsoka finally letting go of lingering guilt over leaving Anakin. Anakin encouraging her not to abandon the galaxy/Luke's school. A realization on Ahsoka's part of why Anakin fell and peace knowing he was ultimately redeemed.
At this point, we don't even know if Ashoka knows the full circumstances of Anakin's fall, hell we don't even know if she's aware that he basically ended the Empire too. What about how she views Luke? What a waste...
I was like “this is pretty cool” the whole episode, but after trying to figure it out afterward..I felt more and more confused.
Like The Force Awakens or Rise of Skywalker, it feels more like a string of cool moments that don't add up to a compelling, overarching plot.
And all I can think when people say ‘this blah was cool’ is the Red Letter Media take on Star Wars fans. You don’t hear Game of Thrones or Lord of the Rings fans say ‘that’s so cool’, because there’s much more depth to the show and source material (Season 1-5 GoT only)
@@jimdaniels7531 Except it *does* add up to the overarching plot, if you actually pay attention and don't just look for a reason to nitpick
this further proves how shit RLM is. I absolutely see GoT and LoTR fans saying EXACTLY that. Especially humorous considering the pure trash that is Rings of Power and the LoTR movie fans going 'THATS SO COOL!' @@exar1806
6:26 he also wasn't really trying to kill her it's kinda like the GM in D&D game you want your players to feel like your trying to kill them as you are playing the role of the bad guy but you aren't really trying to kill them (or at least you shouldn't be) you want the to feel danger but your really making a fun challenge, it's the same thing here if she thinks there is no stakes in the fight she won't learn the lesson he is trying to teach her so he has to go hard enough for her to actually try be not so hard that he kicks her ass and kills her.
Also she is a really strong fighter, she learned from some of the best, I didn't watch the cartoons but I know she was trained by Anakin, Yoda and Obi-Wan and may have been trained by other council members, because of Anakins training she survived order 66 while surrounded by troopers she is a hard nut.
Also in the fight on Mustafa she would have won if she had aimed about 6inchs lower, instead she damaged Vaders helmet instead of taking his head, even the best fighters can lose because the other guy just got a lucky hit in.
As someone who's been a DM for thirty years, I love this analogy.
New republic couldn’t sanction a fleet for Hera’s mission but they can send a fleet of republic cruisers to capture her during the same mission? WTF? This show needed a few more revisions for its scripts
For what it's worth, the proper term to refer to Anakin's conception/birth is just 'virgin birth'. In Catholicism the immaculate conception actually refers to a related, but separate event though it is frequently misunderstood to refer to the conception of Jesus.
I doubt a slave was a virgin 🧐💀
I was so happy to see Anakin in his Clone Wars armor alongside Ahsoka. Great episode that took me away from my daily life and into this entertaining and fulfilling episode. Nuff said
I mean Im glad it worked for u and u enjoyed it but it was kinda hot trash from a writing stand point
I totally agree with you Thor. And I'll just add that Vader did not lose in Fallen Order, Cal and Cere were obviously going to die so they had to escape, and that's what they did. And the Kenobi show never happened.
As an older SW fan.
SW died once GL sold to Disney. I'll always have fond memories of episodes 1-6
Rouge One was enjoyable.
Everything else Is dead to me. So I have no reason to hate watch Disney's/KK version of SW.
Filoni worked (and continues to work) with George.
I feel you. Though I enjoy a little more of new Star Wars than just Rogue One, I too just don't care enough about Disney's vision (or lack there of) of Star Wars. As soon as I heard about the new movies I thought "It's the Last Jedi all over again"
The “anti woke” has become just as annoying as the “woke”. Overly sensitive to any situation or decision
This is an amazing episode, I really enjoyed it. I took Ahsoka being in the water so long as her being in stasis or something while Anakin was trying to teach her, I think if she chose to die then she'd have drown
The biggest problem with filoni is that in his mind Star Wars has no rules, no structure. This is why there are a bunch of plot holes and why everything looses meaning.
Bruh nothing in Star Wars has rules nor structures, Lucas made it up as he went with each movie. Stop select hating, if we are gonna nitpick, the entire SW universe is inconsistent and retconed because Lucas isn't an organized person nor does he write consistent lore.
This isn't LOTR but a campy space opera that it was always meant to be. People take this like a religion whereas Tolkien fans are more light hearted over an actual lore that does feel like history.
what do you think went outside the structure?
@@Thiago_Alves_Souza Lucas isn't the best story writer for sure but saying that he made it up as he went along is just a lie. Before his first movie to some extent yes, but after the new hope he starded making an actual plan including revenge of the sith.
The original movies never had this much plot holes in them. The force was much more limited in what it could do and those rules were fallowed.
Filoni on the other hand fallows no structure at all.
Nobody can die if they are important, the force can do some things sometimes but it can't in others, and it just makes the actions of the characters stupid and meaningless.
Ahsoka and the original trilogy doesn't compare on any level.
@@FelixVyra Kanan is dead, Maul is dead, Satine is dead, Rex is dead and lots of others. You're bugging about Filoni. And he's the one following Lucas best.
Bruh the Prequels contradict the sequels, the force and the Jedi aren't remotely that similar in the OT. Lucas is not very structured at all bruh. Nowhere it's hinted its forbidden for Jedi to marry or love. Obi Wan nor Yoda told Luke his father broke his vows by having him and his sister, only that he turned to the dark side.
@@Thiago_Alves_Souza 1. Lucas had nothing to do with the sequels.
2. Luke is a very differently trined jedi compared to how it was done in time of the clone wars. Luke was not only way older and only taught about the force on a surface level in the span of a few days but it makes sense that Yoda and obi-wan would do some things differently after what happened to anakin. The downfall of the jedi was their fault and Yoda's fault in big part.
3. Idk what you are watching but the force doean't work much differently in the pequels than in the OT. Unlike Filoni's star wars Lucas's never had many major plot holes due to unstructured management of the force.
4. With Filoni you can never be sure who is dead and when. Anyone can return at any time, than be killed off again. TBF this is more of a disney problem than filoni but he didn't help it.
I really don't get the complaining in this case of "Anakin/Vader lost again!?" Anakin says that this is a lesson and there were many opportunities for Anakin/Vader to win if that was the intent. He all but GIVES Ahsoka his lightsaber at the end because he wanted her to make a choice. I personally think that if she "killed" Anakin/Vader she would have died in the ocean as it would have meant that she gave up on herself and in a life-or-death situation like drowning, if she couldn't fight to live then nature would just take its course.
Ahsoka has bee stuck in emotional limbo since the end of the Clone Wars. The revelation of her master's fate and the decades long Galactic Civil War has worn her down. This encounter with Anakin allowed her to finally accept the good with the bad and move on.
But how does that at all change the way she needs to stop Thrawn or mentor Sabine? Where was the conflict or crisis to this point?!?
@@exar1806it was affecting her relation with Sabine, now she's gonna train Sabine better after she finds her
I think Ahsoka was physically in the WBW because she still has her lightsaber. If it didn't fall through the portal with her it would be at the bottom of that ocean. If she was there in mind only, how was it recovered from being in her hand when she got knocked off the cliff?
Since order 66, Ahsoka has been fighting to survive. Now, she will be fighting to live.
Boom
Holy crap, someone that actually gets the point. Some of these comments are mind-numbingly painful to read, and I'd hate to be the one responsible for writing anything deeper than a mud-puddle for some of these people.
Symbolism of being pulled from water. Whether biblical symbols or classic literature, there was deep meaning in here being saved through water.
Jury is still out for me.. one step in the right direction is good but does not undo the 1000 laps Disney/Lucasfim has raced in the wrong direction
This episode sealed Anakin -- a character I refused to really get behind ever since TPM, simply because I felt like I was supposed to, and I'm a rebel -- as my favorite Star Wars character. It's not because this redefined or further defined his character, but because it was the missing puzzle piece I needed to link live action Anakin to animation Anakin, and also Anakin to Vader, at least in my mind. Watching this training arc just made it click for me in a way no other media has before. I can't really figure out how to explain it well.
The lesson, imo, was exactly what Anakin said: "Live, or die."
Ahsoka was becoming worn down by her experiences, perhaps even depressed. She was forcing herself to carry on, her destiny had become a burden. After deciding, or choosing, to live, Ahsoka regained her conviction, her sense of purpose, and her playfulness.
Love this overall, but one tiny point is that Ahsoka's eyes didn't actually turn, it was the lighting lol. Now it was almost certainly lit that way on purpose, but it was just lighting.
I just wish Ashley Eckstein voiced young Ahsoka in the flashbacks.
Ive commented this a few times but I never watched anything animated. I have loved this show and haven’t found any of it confusing. I think Feloni has in us in mind. Im not sure if that was Anikans ghost or her own mind but thats the point. Hes there for her to figure her s**t out.
Also maybe its cause Im a Trekkie but I LOVE having 2 hot alien women with weird stuff on their heads lol
THANK YOU! Exactly. He’s there to help figure it out. The best lessons are those that help us work things out for ourselves, not ones written on stone tablets.
Apologies, but I am curious as to why you would limit yourself like this.
Why won't you watch anything if it is animated?
There are some phenomenal animated movies and series that you are missing out on.
@@wbeytel I do watch animated things. Films and TV series. But Im honestly a Trekkie and only watch SW because of some childhood attachment I have to the originals. What im saying in that comment is I think Ashoka works without seeing any of the Clone Wars or Rebels shows
It's really frustrating. It could easily be fantastic (and often is). But there are some really stupid choices that hurt my enjoyment of it.
For me, that’s Filoni all over. When he shines it’s glorious!
But then you get dark clouds of pointless gumpf surrounding it where he seems to fall off the wagon a bit.
Filoni could really use a co-writer to flesh out ideas more and tighten up dialogue. He's a great idea man but not the person I'd want writing and directing an episode all on his own.
*"Don't hate just to hate."* > Might be someone should tell that to the writers at Disney.
I wanted Anakin to just have a straight forward heart to heart conversation with her instead of just being unnecessarily vague. It’s like they’re paying Hayden by the word.
I wanted to see him admit what he’d done since it seems like Ahsoka has had difficulty connecting Anakin and Vader. I haven’t seen all of clone wars/rebels so maybe I’m wrong on this point.
Also if you’re going to go for the spectacle of her fighting Vader in live action just let him be Vader during the fight.
It felt like having cool ingredients to me but not delivering at least what I might have liked more.
If it is not the only time they meet, then i am fine with a rough first lesson
I don’t like when people go, I think the haters are disingenuous, but I acknowledge many problems, well those problems are way more important to some people , and it’s immersion breaking for me in particular.
Keeping it so vague , makes it uninteresting because nothing holds any weight, nothing is explained so it’s not going to affect the story . So it’s a give and take imo
The whole WBW sequence with Anakin, felt like Luke fighting Vader on Dagobah to me (And that is how it makes sense to me - I prolly got it wrong lol). Ashoka facing Anakin/Vader to let go of the past. Live, or die (I do believe it is all in her head it is taking place, and that's why Anakins persona is shifting back and fort) - The force kept her alive in its mysterious ways, and I don't need that explained further. Why it takes place in WBW I don't know. Maybe in memory of Ezra, and he is the goal of her mission? - All in all I enjoyed it.
A great episode.
Great analysis.
@@TheVeritas1 Thank you.
I enjoy the Dagobah Cave Vision Parallel theory the most. It helps everything seem more in line with the rest of how the force works (if Filoni even minds). It especially makes Ahsoka beating him make more sense, bcoz similar to Luke she had to use her aggression to over power him and is Vader for a moment. But then that pokes holes in the point of the vision. Idk, maybe a creator/actor will come out about what it is
There is so much "Girl Boss" in all of Hollywood, including Disney+. But if every time someone cries "Girl Boss!", then everyone that uses it appropriately will get lumped-in with the "boys that cry wolf"!
I think Anakin purposefully lowered his guard after basically winning the fight. In the end it was all about teaching Ashoka as well as seeing what choice she would make in the end. She chose to not strike him down after which she was allowed to return to the living world.
I agree that this Anakin wasnt trying to beat Ashoka. HOWEVER, that loss in Kenobi was simply unacceptable. It would have made a ton more sense if he just left, and thought Obi-Wan was dead.
Thorskywalker is a DISNEY SHILL -Darth Melvin
Lmfao
Ahsoka never hit the water. She was physically pulled into the WBW. Anakin returns her to the water only after the lesson is complete.
Even as a "force vision" for the casual observer, there is a risk of watering down Vader. But I feel we're close to going down that road. As for the water, I don't have a big issue with it. I did find it odd, but my investment in this show (or lack thereof) has kept me from really caring about things like that.
My issue has been that the characterization of Ahsoka has been very bland (the majority of the cast falls under this as well). You can sum up her personality here as stoic. And as it relates to this episode, I can't say for certainty what lie or wound she got over after the Anikin scene. You can insert anything you want from what you know of her outside this show as what she overcame here, and it would fit.
It would've help tremendously if they built this up better in the earlier scenes. The 'rebirth' trope doesn't work as well when the protagonist isn't given struggles to overcome in the first place. I fear this show will be remembered like The Force Awakens: beloved during release for having catchy moments, a nice feel, and a welcome return of legacy characters, but over time it becomes apparent that there just wasn't that much substance under the hood or that much original going on.
I dunno, the old EU had Darth vader have a few big but Circumstantial losses before Rotj and it didn't damage the fear factor with him. And he still has way more wins then losses when you take all his canon comic and novel stuff into consideration
@GreaterGrievobeast55 I would agree, but the larger audience that didn't read any of the books or comics. Now, if this trend persists, then there might be a good chance of tarnishing Vaders' reputation.
can we get a live action clone wars with Hayden and the girl who played young Ahsoka? That would be great
I don't think it was the real WBW, but that it indeed was the real spirit of Anakin reaching out to save Ahsoka.
My personal belief was that Ahsoka instinctively set herself in a trance to survive the sea, but her unwillingness to choose decisively between grasping onto life or just letting go and die made Anakin step in to make her choose.
I think she teleported. We’ve seen moments where Kanan disappeared in front of their eyes when he, Ezra, and Ahsoka went into the temple in Rebels Season 2 and Kanan like phased through the wall and Ezra was all “😮”.
It’s possible she there but not there at the same time, and when her training was done, she came back.
I think it was the real thing. Hera's son could hear it, after all. That place seems to be special with that Stonehenge circle, so it could well be an entry point to the WBW.
I fall into the camp that is lost. I have no idea what's going on. So for me the episode was just meh. I found some elements interesting but it really felt like it was meant for Clone Wars and Rebels fans which is fine but I'm probably not gonna finish the show
I understand what the purpose of the episode was supposed to be, I just don't think it was done very well. Like they had the message in mind clear as day, but weren't sure how to execute it. I also think people are rating the episode way too high because of the nostalgia dump, but that's neither here nor there.
i feel like the lesson was fine for THIs ahsoka, because i am convinced that this ahsoka and all the other characters are completely different than the ones shown in cw and rebels.
I think almost everything was pretty clear, it wasn't in her head becausen Kanan's son could hear the saber clash, it was the force, regardless of if it was physical or mental or spiritual, it's still the force.
The ending of Rebels was changed, but so was the project itself, that was animation, this is live action, changes will take place intended or not.
What was left open to interpretation was the lesson itself, I do believe that's intentionall, but I do also think that decision was a bit of a mistake. It does spark conversation, but at the same time, things like character arcs should always be cristal clear (In my opinion)
It is rather my personal thing - I do not like world between worlds. I personally prefer to think it was a dream of sorts, maybe coma and maybe she was visited by Anakin in coma. Don't like World between worlds.
Another personal thing - I am a bit tired of every and every story to rotate around Anakin or his family. But it is me being picky.
Otherwise - good episode. Especially Jason sensing Ahsoka - very clave move by Felony. Liked it a lot.
That is not only you being picky, it is an unrealistic expectation, given the history Ahsoka had with Anakin. What did you want, her to just forget he existed?
@@shawnwolf5961 It is a bold clime, to call it "expectations". But, yes - I want her to forget Anakin.
She is an adult now, a person with major numerous accomplishments, a person with a major experience.
She isn't Snips anymore. For a quite a while actually. At that point she already had a life, post Anakin life. How long it was? 40 years at this point in story? And for 40 years she couldn't deal with here memories of her past master? There were no more people in her life? Whole 40 years?
But again, it is me being merely picky. I didn't hate it. I just tired, that everything and everywhere had to be tied to Skywalker family.
Should preface this by saying I really enjoyed this episode, minus a few small issues, and have no issue with having ambiguity around the mystic side of Star Wars. But Ashoka should be dead.
If she’s physically in the WBW, that’s twice she’s been saved from certain death scenarios. How come we’ve never seen anyone else saved in a similar manner? I don’t really understand the concept of the WBW, and neither does Filoni by the sounds of it, but it seems to be a plot device to keep Ashoka alive more than anything else. We’re told it’s a state between life and death, but Ezra accessed it very much alive, and Ahsoka is the only one given second chances by it. It’s a perfect realm for force ghosts, but not one I’d expect people to be able to leave from so easily.
And if she’s imagining the WBW and is in fact in the water for several hours, there’s not any reasonable explanation as to how she survives.
Have enjoyed the show so far, if anyone has logical explanations or details I’m missing please let me know, would love nothing more than to be proved wrong.
Big fan of the vids Thor, keep up the great work.
I believe it was Anakin himself and the lesson was the title of the episode. To let go of her shadows and guilt of being unable to save him. And to choose to live and be more than just the warrior he was forced to train her to be
I believe that Ahsoka is 15 years old again.
I believe the green lightsaber is real even though Ahsoka already brought 2 white lightsabers with her.
I believe that Jacen being half twilek could here lightsabers clashing from a mile away, underwater but his fullblooded twilek mother standing next to him could not.
I believe it doesn't matter if it's real just how hard you believe it to be real.
I believe I can fly.
I believe you have to sing that last sentence.
Seriously, Anakin and young Ahsoka were wonderfully realized. A rare treat from modern Star Wars. I just wish it was in service to a better story.
The force used to be simple and understandable. Whataboutism: just because something absurd happened somewhere else, doesn't make it excusable here. If the force can save people (teleport them to a different dimension) or resurrect them at will, then what are the stakes in Star Wars anymore? The good guys don't have to earn their victory if the force can just hand one to them regardless (Rey Palpatine). Ahsoka lost the fight and fell off a cliff, yet there's no bad consequence. A running theme for modern Star Wars.
Force visions used to aid in character development, not replace it. Luke's vision on Dagobah was fascinating and multilayered, giving insight to his mental state and foreshadowing his destiny. But the best parts of Luke's journey are what he actually did: confronting Vader, learning the truth of his lineage, seeing the conflict within his father, defying the Emperor, redeeming Anakin and fulfilling his destiny.
Whatever meaning we're supposed to take away from Ahsoka's vision, it's failing to apply to the current storyline. Why should fighting Anakin in her head / in the force have a seemingly greater impact on her than fighting him in real life? When have we seen Ahsoka suffer from the pain of her past? (Perhaps her learning of Anakin's redemption would be a relevant scene, if it existed.) When has Ahsoka lost the will to live and to fight? Given how thin Ahsoka has been characterized thus far, what will be the meaningful difference between Ahsoka the grey and Ahsoka the white?
7:10 i usually respect your opinions despite disagreeing with them, but this one sounds like a real reach/copium take ngl... who is vader putting a show for? the viewers? does being a force ghost make the jedi self aware that they're in a tv show? everything else sounds ok in this video but i did a double take when you were expanding on your point at this timestamp.. heheh
I was kinda confused there too. Like is he talking about about the writers intent, or is Anakin taking an L on purpose to boost Ashoka's confidence?
I'm a big fan of Nerdrotic, Disparu, and others from the FNT gang. Normally I really like their points and perspectives, but in this, they are obviously pulling the click-meter and it seems harsh and shouty rather than informative.
All you have to be is at least a casual fan or TCW or Rebels (and I'm not talking loremaster) to grok this series.
When I see stuff like that (bad reviews for what is an objectively good series) I shrug and move on. Social media doesn't ditate my likes or dislikes. That it apparently does for a lot of folks makes me a little sad.
Rogue One, Andor and now Ahsoka are series that I'm fully invested in. "Shadow Warrior" blew my doors off. 😀
“It is time for you to face your guilt and free yourself by choosing!” - The Father
I think this quote fits the final part of the lesson Anakin was teaching her by having her face his dark self.
One could also surmise that Anakin purposefully let Ahsoka win to put her in the position that she had to choose whether or not to kill him...thus helping to finalize his lesson that she is more than just a soldier and that death is not her legacy. There are a lot of different ways to interpret what happened in the WBW between these two. I think personally, that it was the real spirit of Anakin and he wanted to teach her the lesson that he learned upon his redemption. Unless Dave comes out and spells it all out, I think that there will never be a definite answer to the meaning behind all that happened and it is up to each of us to draw our own lessons from it based on our experiences and understanding of the Force and it's ways.
Ahsoka beating Anakin was no issue for me. My problem is that this show plays so fast and loose with the mechanics of this universe to force things to take place that it takes you out of the story. Its hard to immerse yourself in a world where anything can and does happen aimply so the writer can make certain events happen, rather than events follow in a logical procession. The stakes are always abysmally low because of it as well. This issue isnt exclusive to this show, Lucasfilm just cant seem to put together a strong narrative these days. I'll give Ahsoka points for fan service, and at least an attempt at spectacle, but this doesn't strike me as a story that will be very memorable after its over. Got three episodes left to turn it around, I guess we'll just see.
I can’t see why she shouldn’t beat him. If it’s really him, he obviously wouldn’t be fighting to really kill her, but to teach her a lesson. If it’s in her head then beating him is just her being determined to finish what she started instead of giving up. I’m surprised anyone is upset about that.
You’re right about the consequences. Very little matters and what was a consequence in a previous episode is swept away conveniently in the next. I was afraid they would fix that map sphere when I saw it in two halves like it was cut with a knife (after it had been burned through its core by a lightsaber lol) but in the end they don’t even need it so why did it matter so much. It’s a problem in all modern Disney and most modern movies too. Still I enjoyed seeing Hayden swinging a lightsaber again
Of course the stakes are low. The title character won't die. But I don't need life and death situations all the time to keep me interested. In every hero movie you know the main hero won't die and thwart the bad guy's plan. That doesn't mean they aren't exciting or fun to watch.
Besides, I can absolutely see Sabine dying in the finale, perhaps sacrificing herself or whatever.
finally some actual constructive criticism
@@henrimemelord nobody said Ahsoka had to die. And Thrawn shouldn't be thwarted, at least not in this series. We need villains that should be taken seriously, and actions have to have consequences. Both are sorely lacking here.
On the whole WBW sequence is real or not, allow me to use a scene from another movie:
“Professor Dumbledore. Is this real or is it in my head?”
“Why of course it’s in your head. But what makes you think it isn’t real?”
I love how certain fans can suspend their disbelief to Ashoka surviving in the water for several hours but can fathom Leia using the force ti survive in space.
I'm not sure surviving it is what most people didn't like about that, rather it was how goofy it looked. There's a reason why many call it "Leia Poppins".
Ahsoka was in the water for a minute or so. The was in the WBW and left it immediately before she was rescued.
@@countluke2334 Technically they were searching for her for so long they almost gave up so definitely not a minute
One has to admit The void of space is a much harsher environment to endure then the ocean
@Magneticitist yes, they were searching while she was in the WBW. Hera's son could sense that. When she was finished with Anakin and the water was rising for her, they were already searching in the right area, flying "very low". It's only hard to understand if you don't want to.
That was really Anakin. When Ahsoka says she won’t fight him, Anakin says “I’ve heard that before,” which is a direct callback to Luke Skywalker, who also tried to avoid fighting Darth Vader. ONLY ANAKIN KNOWS THIS. Ahsoka could not have known that. So, that is really Anakin is some form.
Many viewers - me included - seem to struggle to get the point of this Anakin flashback sequence. Yet you seem so sure it must be about Ahsoka's lingering guilt and trauma. I could buy that as the purpose of this sequence if she was actually shown to be suffering from such guilt in this series. If it was hindering her journey somehow or if it was causing her to falter in critical moments. Or better yet, if her lingering fear and doubt was what caused her to lose the fight to Baylon.
But that's not what we have seen of Ahsoka. She has been calmly and confidently following this video game plot, and it seems like she lost the fight to Baylon fair and square, because he was simply the better duelist.
You can't hint that a character has been suffering from crippling PTSD, you have to show it. Otherwise it doesn't feel real to the audience.
Agreed. Without the proper setup it just feels like bringing back a legacy character for empty fan service. I mean, this scene could've worked well and been powerful, but that's not quite what we got.
I guess my biggest gripe with this episode was it felt like an excuse to have Anakin in a lightsaber duel. Though people would probably say it was boring, I would have preferred a more rational discourse between Master and Apprentice. Ahsoka is already a good fighter with plenty of determination. I don't think a lesson in tough love from Anakin was the best way to help her find "enlightenment". I liked seeing Jason showing his force aptitude and really hope Ahsoka and Ezra teach him how to wield the force. I also thought the purgil looked amazing. Have to admit that I had Dory from Nemo pop into my head. "I wish I could speak whale...." I'm surprised that Morgan didn't already try that given Night sisters attunement with animals.
You missed the entire point
Missing what thor? That it all leads to the sequels? Give me a break! Starwars is dead and disney killed it. Stop giving them your money!!!!!
The '78 Holiday Special was the single worst Star Wars installment ever made, and it didn't "kill" the franchise.
He lets her win. She did not beat him. She’s a celestial just like Anakin. They can only be killed by the sword of mortis.
That Anakin the father, demonstrated by him using light and dark side.
That is what Filoni is doing, without saying it. Once KK is gone, we will see Filoni’s true vision. It’s meant to be ambiguous for now.
I'm glad there was a decent episode in "Ahsoka". It was nice to see Anakin and Ahsoka in live action in the Clone Wars flashback. None of that was bad. But it's still set in a show that's pretty boring and not very well written. I don't complain out of hatred, I complain out of love. Because I want all of this to get better, really. I want to love Star Wars. But you can't force us to love what isn't good.
I'd disagree. I believe the show has been excellent.
Seriously stfu. What are you still living in the 80's? If you really loved SW you would understand that it will never reach these imaginary standards you have set, especially now that Disney owns it. I'd imagine people like you bitched and moaned over the prequals too even though it was George Lucas at the helm. Find anyone who knows the franchise at a high level and they will tell you that this episode was the best thing to come out of SW since RotS.
I agree with you, even though I like episode 4 and 5 and generally am positively oriented towards this show. The overall major storyline and the way it is told is just not doing it for me.
Another example that is was the real Anakin was when they're about to fight, Ahsoka says she will not fight him and Anakin replies that he heard that before. He was referring to Luke saying that to Vader in ROTJ, something Ahsoka wouldn't know because she wasn't there.
Here's how I think Anakin's scene is:
In the Mortis arc of the clone wars, the Father wanted Anakin to replace him and maintain balance in the force. Even though he said no.
Anakin didn't learn to become a force ghost like Obi-Wan and Yoda. So how did he become one? He was needed to officially replace the Father now that he destroyed the sith(ignoring the sequels). That's why he is in the World Between Worlds since it is connected to Mortis. He pulled Ahsoka into it after losing to Baylon and after completing her training, he sent her back to exactly where she was like how she ended back on Malachor after Ezra saved her.
I don't think this was a very good episode. I haven't seen rebels and all this Anakin stuff came out of the blue for me. Ahsoka was never really strugling with her past or with Anakin in this show. Not sure why she had to resolve these issues now and the story suffered from it.
I understand a lot of rebels fans want to see Ahsoka & Anakin together again. But this show is supposed to be about stopping Trawn. The other characters seem to be waiting around the henge thing for no real reason other then "Ahsoka needs to have her clone wars moment for the fans" and the writers needed the force as a deus ex machina to make it even vaguely believable.
I am generally enjoying the show but I wish it would go on and tell its own story instead of trying to retell an old one.
Agreed. I don't like saying it, but there's some storytelling fundamentals that are missing in this show.
On Thor saying to compliment DSW once in a while- Uh, no. If someone continually makes mistakes or a bad product, they should not be complimented on the lesser stuff that's good. They need to listen to the criticism and fix the core SUBSTANCE of that product or stop making that product. DSW keeps shoving out a lot of bad products. They either need to fix it or stop making it. I work in visual design. It doesn't matter if you get a few things right but have the core of the design not satisfy the customer. Ya, did it wrong. Fix it.
On another topic, put me on the (pseudo) science side rather than magical. I never had a problem with midichlorians. They didn't create the force; they were just a conduit for its usage. It didn't take away from the "magic" of the Force, but it did help it be more than just magic - which doesn't exist anyway.
As for Ashoka's vision, it was just that, a vision. She never physically went anywhere (that the literal ocean current wasn't carrying her). Now it may have been a "force" vision aka, dreaming+. Was Anakin's consciousness actually there? Who the F knows? Is Filoni okay with fans and viewers not knowing? Apparently so. Is that good writing? ABSOLUTELY NOT. This "it's whatever you want it to be" mentality that some creators do is just a lack of skill in conceptualizing or writing. The storyteller has the responsibility to know what they mean and communicate that to the audience, especially in a well-established IP like SW.
It just so happens I watched the Clone Wars Yoda (mini) series after the Ash ep. Yoda went through several visions, but they were all visions, not transport to another realm. And it was clear when he was talking with someone in reality (voice of Qui-Gon) or simply seeing a visual illusion (Qui-Gon, and other Jedi at the temple). Yoda also fought Sidious, who was sharing the same force vision. Yoda and Sidious were there, but Anakin (who was knocked out by Sidious) was not. Point being, back then, the writers knew how to tell the story in an unconfusing way - because they paid attention to what they were doing and made a good product (see first paragraph).
how ironic. You are accusing other people of being disingenuous.
It's good to see Anakin again, and the young Ahsoka was excellent, and there were a few cool sequences (including good lightsabre duelling for the first time in Ahsoka) but that doesn't make it a good episode, and I still think it's a flawed show.
I'm a clone wars fan so seeing even moments of that in live-action was fun - in fact I think that's what Disney should've focused on a decade ago.
But, there are still issues.
Why does Hera hear the lightsabres? Why do the Republic to send three battleships to bring back Hera when they had none to send when she was warning them of Thrawn's return? Why does Hera tell her ships to avoid the whales and then they don't? How is Ahsoka underwater without imbibing any of it? Why does Huyang assume Ahsoka and Sabine split up? Why does he hide from Hera when she lands? Why was Ahsoka hiding her white cloak away for this moment? How does Chopper locate her? Why does Hera leave her son alone with Huyang on the surface of a planet she isn't sure is safe?
You mentioned Ahsoka only being 13 in a previous video but she has trained since she was very little.
These may seem like nitpicks to some but they're indicative of a lack of forethought that runs throughout the whole show.
Plus, it's still very slow. We're five episodes in and hardly anything has happened. This episode did feel like less of a drag than the others but I can't say that at the end of it I was satisfied.
Because of their previous productions I do now have, and have had for a while, an inbuilt bias against Disney Star Wars (almost a defence mechanism to protect the memory of Star Wars that I did like or even love) so to have any hope of winning me, and people who feel the same way, back they need to be consistently amazing for quite a while, and I can't say this episode was amazing.
This was Ahsoka's cave moment. Complaining about her beating Vader/Anakin in this episode is like complaining Luke beat Vader in the cave. It doesn't matter if this is the "real" Anakin or not. What even is the "real" Anakin? It can be the "real' Anakin AND the Anakin that exists within her and the force/collective consciousness. It's (IMO) a silly thing to get hung up on. She "beat" him because that was the lesson. Best episode yet.
I understand that Cere Junda couldn't have won against Vader from a canon standpoint, but she got as close as pretty much anyone who died fighting him. I think she was clearly more disciplined and had experienced the Dark and Light sides and chosen to return. She knew who Vader was what he did and her mission was to stop a monster who would destroy the legacy of the Jedi. She knew the galaxy was better with the knowledge they had spread out and archived instead of being lost. Vader got lucky that Cere got a little too confident and let her guard down. She should have seen that stab coming a mile away, but she did such damage to him that she was just determined to save Cal and everyone else she loved as well as the galaxy from Vader. He didn't even finish her off. I think he probably enjoyed that fight as he hadn't been challenged like that in a long time.
I'd say that what Ahsoka experienced was her Jedi Trials, and it very well may have been despite her not being a Jedi. The Force may see her as a torchbearer for the Light, especially as she's the embodiment of the Daughter.
What if the scene at the end of Rebels comes at the end of this show? I know that Sabine is narrating as if it were during the OT and just after, but it could have very well been after these events. Maybe she was remembering Ezra because they won't be able to save him or he'll really sacrifice himself for the greater good.
To me the main lesson came across as FAITH. Up to this point it seems her stoic attitude has actually been the result of Ahsoka doubting the Jedi (when she left and their role in the war), doubting Anakin (what he passed on to her), doubting Sabine (‘can I count on you’) and doubting herself (Baylan: your legacy like your master’s is death and destruction). Anakin tells her ‘we must change with the times’ and THAT is pretty much same thing as Qui-Gon: ‘focus on the the present / the living force and Yoda: “never his mind on WHERE HE WAS…..” in other words, Anakin is saying trust the force, let go…. And then she is Baptized before emerging from the waters… white new clothing… Jonah in the whale… now she has an almost giddy attitude regarding ‘where they may end up” but no problem, she trusts the force now, and smiles (change in overall attitude) I think she was physically in the world between worlds because the scanners found nothing for hours, until the lesson was done, and she would not know about Anakin hearing Luke say “I will not fight you”. 9 out of 10 for me.
And so how will any of that change what she has done to this point?!?
@exar1806 it doesn’t change what has already happened. It changes her character to moving forward.
@@exar1806 (since 'baptized') She no longer carries the weight of her sins and no longer carries the weight of the sins of others that came before - she can now hear more clearly what the force is telling her without all those other distractions and worries.
I think that part of what people are missing here is something we’ve wanted respected and included for so long that Disney has ignored. The Hero’s Journey -
So much of this episode is in Easter Eggs. The very title Shadow Warrior is referring to a Kurosawa film called Kagemusha that George Lucas was an executive producer for.
What’s the lesson? The lesson every hero needs at the moment. Jor-El taught Kal-El about vanity, not to beat himself up about feelings of vanity, but not to get consumed by it. Luke- Obi-Wan and Yoda taught him about trust and how the real world wasn’t black and white.
Ahsoka - she was on her way to a fall. She was so consumed by fear that it paralyzed her. Anakin knew about fear and where that leads. Anakin taught her that the darkness is in everyone but not to be afraid of it anymore. She could control it if she didn’t die. If the chose to live and fight. Anakin taught her about fear… and when her fear of becoming Vader was gone “there is hope for you yet.” Hope- the opposite of fear.
Anakin/Vader lost on purpose. He had to put her in a position to feel anger, to feel the dark side. You saw Ahsoka eyes turn - but in that moment he engineered she didn’t give in. He couldn’t beat her for her to have the chance to be in this moment.
What did he make her feel through the lesson? Pride, remorse, confusion, suffering, fear… all the emotions that led him to darkness. But she didn’t give in. Anakin freed her. Helped her trust the force again. She chose to live -
I really liked it, but the more I think about how hard they missed landing a really important lesson with ahsoka. If they made anakin teach her more that life is more precious, he knows about that more than anyone, then it would be better. Just needed a clearer lesson
I don’t think there is really anything particularly wrong with the episode, it just seems meh. I think this would have worked better animated.
I think people that aren’t really up on rebels or clone wars won’t only be lost, but think this is some kind of fan fiction.. space whales, zombie inquisitors, witches, world between worlds etc
I want to like this show, I really do. But the meh is strong in this one. Less fan service, more plot development please. There's only 3 eps left and not that much has happened.
So far this is my favourite Star Wars show.
I didn't think the duel was a girl boss moment, Anakin Vader let her win so she could chose not to kill him, chose life. It was part of the lesson.
I don't understand the trend in sci-fi/fantasy for unnecessary ambiguity. Subtext ≠ ambiguity. If you are not going to answer the question, then do not raise the question. This is a problem throughout SF/F writing across mediums.
It wasn't a girl boss moment. I hate those and it wasn't one. He let her win clearly. To teach her something about herself. He obviously couldn't die; he's already dead.
I don’t hate, I feel nothing but apathy
Same. I see anakin coming back as just key dangling. I wish I still cared about SW…
The meh is strong in this one.
@@jimdaniels7531
I mean what is there to be excited over with modern Star Wars? 🤷♂️
Unless Thrawn comes in and removes the First Order from the current canon, I just don’t care
I think it's pretty clear that the Rebels scene is a light retcon and it's the same moment as the one in Ahsoka, but an understandable one.
At the time of Rebel's ending, Filoni wanted to add some closure to Ahsoka's story and didn't know that he would get to do another show with her, so he added 'Ahsoka the white' because he knew that's how he wanted to end her story.
Now that he has the Ahsoka show he gets to tell the full story. So all parts of the Rebels Epilogue are still true to the overall story, but now we just get the full picture. I just see the Rebels version as the way that Sabine described the moment in her ending monologue.
As a fervent anti-Disney Star Wars fan, I honestly do not care if you like it. If it brings you excitement and joy then I am happy for you. What I personally cannot abide however is the defense and rationalization of objectively bad content. Just because you like it does not make it good. On my side of things, I will admit there have been a handful of fun and exciting moments in this new era, but that does not excuse Disney Star Wars as a whole.
The whole WBW bit was really cool, but just fealt fluffy. It seemed deep, but if you think about it for long it just wasn't.
They prioritized catchy moments over actual plot substance.
I refuse to watch this show but I’m very happy for Hayden. The clips I’ve seen of him he looks very good and it’s cool to see live action Anakin and Ahsoka together.
Same. The show is meh but Hayden is awesome
You could watch this episode without more context.
If you saw the movies, Rebels and Clone Wars, that's all the context needed for this one.
@@nik021298I’ve seen every Star Wars movie/show. I’m not watching this and everything after because Lucasfilm has lost me. Like I said it’s great to see Hayden as Anakin again.
I’ve not given Disney any credit when they deserved criticism, this show is not the same as the sequels or Kenobi. Thank you Dave Filoni
It’s just a mid episode with cheap fan service and people automatically call it a masterpiece. Those are the standards nowadays. It’s supposed to be Ahsoka’s tv show yet she’s the most boring part of the series, should’ve called it Rebels season 4 instead. At this point Ahsoka it’s just an overused self insert character by Filoni.
Bwaaaahhh bwaaahh😢😢😢
@@Thiago_Alves_Souza what an insightful comment that was, thank you for your input!
@@cacuevas no it was a summary of your whingin. Go watch something else, I'm loving this and understanding the characters pretty well. Why keep bitching about something incessantly? Go outside my guy.
Yeah Anakin was testing Ahsoka. He wasn't fighting her for real, he wasn't trying to kill her. He was pushing her, testing her, training her. Almost like he's her master... huh. How about that. Her winning was passing the test, not defeating him in a life-or-death all-out fight. Think thematically about the stories you see, people, don't just take what is shown at face value, don't be fully literal, think about the emotions and purposes and deeper storytelling. There is always something going on underneath the surface in a good story sequence.
Of the five episodes so far, this was, for me the best from start to finish; however, it's not without flaws. The Anakin/Ahsoka scenes were some of the best Star Wars that I've seen & I enjoyed seeing Hayden performing the role again - he was great. Getting us engaged in a philosophical debate about certain elements of a Star Wars story is always entertaining & the VFX/score were again well done. Huyang provided some quality comedic bits and seeing the Purgill was visually awesome. Hopefully the rest of the season is equally good.
That being said, I still believe Hera is a poor parent as her willingness to expose her child to situations unknown yet probably dangerous is questionable at best. Having Jacen along seems like a crutch written in to provide an easy way to rescue Ahsoka. And while I did enjoy the WBW scenes, I question the need to use it as it, IMO, dilutes many of the events from the OT. If we assume that Ahsoka really went to the WBW & that is really Anakin then how did Ahsoka get there? Ezra, at least, had to figure it out at a real temple & he physically pulled Ahsoka into it. How does Anakin know anything about the WBW? If it's that easy for Force Ghosts to just grab someone out of reality at a critical moment in time, then why didn't Qui Gon do so with Anakin in the prequels or Obi Wan with Luke on Hoth? The whole WBW concept is interesting, and I liked the Ezra/Palpatine conflict with it, but it has now been used twice to save Ahsoka's life and I am beginning to look at it more as a crutch for keeping Ahsoka alive & well than as a real story element.
thats why its left for us to guess did she actually go to the BWB or was it all just in her head while she was floating on the water, and did she just wake up because she sank finally.. at least thats what i got out of it..
I enjoyed Episode 4 more, but episode 5 was for the most part pretty good. Ahsoka's vision was good, but a little more routine and bland than my expectations. I expected something more grand. Something bigger than Ahsoka resolves her personal feelings.
It is been my theory that we have not yet seen the scene from Rebels in Live Action. There will be a second attempt to find Ezra.
Hey Thor, always love your responses. With all respect, this episode proves star wars fans prefer member berries and nostalgia over story telling. This episode was almost 50 minutes and nothing really happened to move the story forward, and we still haven't seen Thrawn.
The majority of the episode is dedicated to the visions of the past with Anakin, which furthered Ahsoka’s development both emotionally and as a teacher and will seemingly impact how she acts from here on out. She also figured out how to follow Sabine. To say that it’s not substantive isn’t really accurate; however, it is true that this episode was less about plot than character, and in that respect is not as much about “story”.
It's isn't the Thrawn show though, it is Ahsoka. The character is broken, and is completely different than how she was in TCW or Rebels. And I believe to defeat Thrawn, she will need her padawan, she will need to be in balance witth the force, I mean she was barely able to hold her own against Baylan. She is out of balance, the team is out of balance. And the chosen one returning, to complete her training to become a jedi is an important step.
Vader keeps losing and he's going to get a reference under The Worf Effect on TVTropes. A character we are informed is the strongest person in the cast, but often gets taken out fast and easily to establish as very powerful.
I'm glad someone said it. Some people just have their mind made up to hate the show, and will find anything to allow them to do it.
It’s obviously true that Anakin was not trying to win the fight. I think that’s not even subjective. I also believe it was really Anakin and Ashoka was physically there. Maybe pulled in by anakin. This explains why they couldn’t find her for a long. It’s also real because Jacen and even Hera heard the duel. However I think that even Ashoka questioned the realness of it after she woke up. Then Jacen said he heard the lightsabers and she looked a little elated and started to ask him more questions. Either way this was the trials for Ahsoka and I think that now she is a Jedi Master. Seeing as how she proudly referred to her starship as a “Jedi” starship. Just my take. 😊🤷🏻♂️