Thank you for specially clarifying the wedding banquet for all peoples. Your continued study has confirmed so much!! It saddens me so many others are dogmatic about pre trib rapture. Bless you for letting scripture speak according to itself. Stay safe Joel. From Ohio.
I love the way you handle discussing the rapture, which is such a divisive topic for so many Christians unfortunately. I used to believe in pre-trib until I really dug in to scripture and asked The Lord to remove anything from my mind that was false and learned from man instead of the Word. It was then like I was reading all those passages the pre-tribbers use for the very first time, and the theory was completely proved wrong. We will go through tribulation, period... that's what the Bible says. I will never forget that day when my eyes were opened, what a blessing to have The Holy Spirit teach & give us clarity! Everybody please turn away from man-made false doctrines... The truth is in the Bible! Believing you're gonna get swooped out of here before the tribulation is a lie from the Satan that will leave many Christians unprepared for what's to come, and maybe even cause them to lose their faith. Escapism is NOT the way... JESUS IS!
I've literally read the same thing but reversed before. People have prayed that every false teaching of eschatology be removed from their mind, and then they land on a pretrib belief and then ascribe it to the Holy Spirit teaching them. What you said holds no weight other than the divisiveness of calling pretrib a manmade belief. We all should at least have the humility to say we "may" still be wrong.
All i can say is be prepared! Stay strong brothers and sisters for our redemption draws near! I believe we are here till the End. But if it doesn't happen that way it doesn't matter because I'm Saved and Ready either way.
Totally agree with you…it’s not a salvation issue and takes away valuable time to really learn and develop yourself in Gods word…it’s apples and oranges…God Bless you and all of us 🙏🏻💙🙏🏻
There is a time and season for every purpose under heaven. No time truly spent with God or in His word is wasted time. This topic is just part of that. We are to walk out our salvation changing to Christ likeness (which btw happens to contrast/clash with the world in many ways) and enduring til the end, whenever it be. On that agreed.
1 Thessalonians 5:8-9 But since we are of the day, let us be sober, having PUT ON the breastplate of faith and love, and as a helmet, the hope of salvation. For God has not destined us for wrath, but for obtaining salvation through our Adonai Yeshua. The helmet and breastplate protect us from wrath. Yeshua's name means " Salvation "
Regarding the bowls, in Deut. 28 Moses describes the consequences of not keeping the covenant, and 28:27-29 describes some of the plagues of Egypt that would come upon them. Those mentioned here align perfectly with the first and fifth bowls in Revelation. And the fact that many of the bowls are Exodus themed points to Moses being one of the two witnesses (with Elijah). These bowls fit better in the Great Tribulation than afterwards.
She definitely implies it at very least, and I could point you to a dozen others here on YT who are literally fire-and-brimstone teachers that not accepting pre-trib apparently means you are not saved and won't be raptured at all. And that's the attitude Joel is warning about, and I agree with him.
Jesus is clear in Mathew 24 that there is no pre-trib rapture and that there will be a great falling away from the faith before He returns. Pre-trib Rapture is a false "satanic" teaching that began in 1830 when a Scottish girl claimed she had a ... "vision." Believes are to follow God ... not ... Man.
Good pastoral advice. I find myself in the same post-trib position but with some nuance differences. I have commented on these before. I think the 7 seals, trumpets, thunders and bowls are sequential. With you, I see the7th trumpet as the time of Christ`s return. You resolve the vision of the saints before the throne between the 6th and 7th seal as disembodied martyrs out of the great tribulation. I see the vision as a forward looking preview of what was about to happen when the trumpets sounded. Remember the 4 winds of judgement was delayed until the sealing of the bond servants. The logical outcome of the sealing is pictured and not the timing between the 6th and 7th seal. The trumpets are precursors announcing the coming Day of the Lord`s wrath. You correctly point out that God`s wrath is already upon evil doers. But the wrath that is to come, from which we are not appointed too, is the final end point of the eschatological Day of the Lord when Christ returns. In your understanding you cannot have the saints raptured to heaven for they meet the Lord in the clouds and return with him for the wedding feast on earth. Your teaching has been helpful for me to see its validity. However I have tweaked the metaphor. When the 7th trumpet sounds, the heavens are split open for all to see the sign of his coming and the earthlings to fear and see the throne and coming wrath of God and the Lamb. The saints ascend to the Son of Man seated on his throne in the clouds of heaven. Then they as the bride descend with Christ on his white horse to earth for the marriage supper of God. The saints do make it to the throne of God but only for a brief time before their descent with Christ. Your metaphor still works with only one gathering to the clouds of heaven to usher the bridegroom in his descent to earth for the marriage supper. I hope this nuance understanding can bridge some of the gaps between differing views.
My fellow truth-seekers will take the time to read this comment. Whoever the Spirit leads will read. There is no pretribulation rapture. Pretribulation is a man-made doctrine, and is the devil's gospel. Tribulation is the devil's governing oppression over all those in the world who follow Christ. We are in the world, but not of the world. John 16:33,KJV "These things I have spoken unto you, that in me(Christ) ye might have peace. In the world ye shall *have tribulation*: but be of good cheer; I have overcome the world." Tribulation means: distress or suffering resulting from *oppression* or persecution, a trying experience, tribulation means trial.* Acts 14:22 KJV "Confirming the souls of the disciples, and exhorting them to continue in the faith, and that we must through *much tribulation* enter into the kingdom of God." Then said Jesus unto his disciples, "*If any man will come after me, let him *DENY HIMSELF, and TAKE UP HIS CROSS,* and follow me. For whosoever will save his life shall lose it: and whosoever will lose his life for my sake shall find it.*" Matthew 16:24-26 KJV *Tribulation started in Genesis when Adam forfeited his governance over the world, when he obeyed satan instead of God. Satan instead of man(Adam) has been the governing power over the world's ruling powers ever since. (Read Genesis, KJV). Satan rules in the kingdoms of this World. The kingdoms of the world( the empires) are referred to as beasts, because they are kingdoms without the true God( They are antichrists ). Satan is the one who gives the beasts their power. Read the Book of Daniel. Read Revelation to understand the end as it relates to the beginning in Genesis. Matthew 4:8, KJV "Again, the devil taketh him up into an exceeding high mountain, and sheweth him all the kingdoms of the world, and the glory of them; [9] And saith unto him, All these things will I give thee, if thou wilt fall down and worship me." Luke 4:5-8, KJV. "And the devil, taking him up into an high mountain, shewed unto him all the kingdoms of the world in a moment of time. And the devil said unto him, All this *power* will I give thee, and the glory of them: for that is delivered unto me; and to whomsoever I will I give it. If thou therefore wilt worship me, all shall be thine. And Jesus answered and said unto him, Get thee behind me, Satan: for it is written, Thou shalt worship the Lord thy God, and him only shalt thou serve. Do you see? The devil lies: the power was not given to him freely by God. God freely gave Adam(man) dominion over the earth, but Adam through his disobedience losses it to satan, when he *chose* to put faith in the devil rather than God. *Satan( previously known as Lucifer) will continue to rule, though his total ruling power has been forfeited by the sacrificial blood of Christ, and the resurrection of Christ. Satan no longer has power over all souls unless you willingly give satan your soul. Satan and his followers are hellbound. Satan no longer has the key over hell, death and the grave. He cannot hold captive of the souls that belong to Christ. Christ's Sacrificial Blood forfeited all of satan's powers obtained through his deception of man & woman in the Garden of Eden. Revelation 1:17-18, King James Version(KJV) "And when I saw him, I fell at his feet as dead. And he laid his right hand upon me, saying unto me, Fear not; I am the first and the last: I am he that liveth, and was dead; and, behold, I am alive for evermore, Amen; and have the keys of hell and of death." Revelation 3:7, KJV "To the angel of the church in Philadelphia write: These are the words of the One who is holy and true, who holds the key of David. What He opens no one can shut, and what He shuts no one can open." On The Day of Christ: All who are Christ's and are dead will be resurrected, and those in Christ who are still alive until Christ returns will be transformed from mortality to immortality, and rise to the Spiritual( incorruptible bodies)of eternal life and peace, free from suffering, war, and pain. There are no tears, and no need for money in Christ's coming Kingdom, no rich vs poor, no pale skin vs dark skin, no upper-class vs lower-class, no aristocrats vs. peasants, etc. There are no narcissists in Christ's Kingdom. For we are all one in Christ Jesus, and there is no evil, or sin there. Amen!!! The return of Christ: The Day of The Lord, is not a quiet rapture event. *Pretribulation? or After Tribulation? Let God answer the question:* It is written in Matthew 24: 29 -31, KJV.* "*Immediately AFTER THE TRIBULATION of those days* *shall the SUN BE DARKENED, and the MOON SHALL NOT GIVE HER LIGHT, and the STARS SHALL FALL FROM HEAVEN, and the POWERS OF THE HEAVENS SHALL BE SHAKEN:* *And THEN SHALL APPEAR THE SIGN OF THE SON OF MAN IN HEAVEN: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and THEY SHALL SEE THE SON OF MAN COMING IN THE CLOUDS OF HEAVEN WITH POWER AND GREAT GLORY.* *"And He shall send His angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall GATHER TOGETHER HIS ELECT FROM THE FOUR WINDS, FROM ONE END OF HEAVEN TO THE OTHER.*" The Rapture: *"And He shall send His angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall GATHER TOGETHER HIS ELECT FROM THE FOUR WINDS, FROM ONE END OF HEAVEN TO THE OTHER.*" 1 Thessalonians 4:17 King James Version "*Then we which are ALIVE and REMAIN shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.*" Christ has the ultimate power over all. Sin and satan's worldly kingdoms are coming to an end. The new Earth which is called The New Jerusalem will descend from Heaven, and only the meek( All those who belong to Christ) will inherit this Earth. Christ shall be our King, and we shall be His people forever. Christ's Kingdom and the His inheritance of the throne of David will be from everlasting to everlasting. Then you will see true Peace, with the The Prince of Peace who is Christ Jesus.
Regarding the days being cut short. I believe Jesus is referring to the 4th trumpet, where the days and night will be shorter. Revelation 8:12b “the day would not shine for a third of it, and the night in the same way.”
I've been saying, you're welcome to believe in the pre-trib rapture, as long as you don't lose your faith when the tribulation starts and you realize you're in the middle of it.
The days being cut short, I see them as they’ve already been cut short. The timeline will still be as it is written. As it is written, those are the shortened days.
@Joel Love your ministry and the word you bring! It's a blessing to see the truth being preached in the times we live in now! Question for you. Are the rapture at the 7th trumpet and the 2nd Coming of Jesus, one and the same? Thanks Brother 🛐🕎🔯🌍
I believe that is the hybrid prewrath-post-trib view Joel was speaking of. Prewrath would say between 6th and 7 seals, while post-trib says at very end of Daniel’s 7 years. So this hybrid from the way I see it has some seals trumpets and bowls overlap, with Jesus coming to rapture when the 7th seal, and trumpet(last) end with maybe 30 or 40 days of bowl judgments just after that. The saved and Jesus marching to Zion and defeating enemies during bowl judgments in our glorified bodies. The bowl judgments can’t harm a glorified body.
I was concerned with so much pre trip teaching that if it didn't happen that way that it would cause people to be discouraged and walk away. I do believe there's scriptures that people are not talking about, such as Ephesians 4:10:13. And I agree with you. It's not something that we're supposed to argue about. In fact, we're supposed to be doing what Jesus said and loving on each other, Our brothers and sisters in Christ and loving others and bringing them to Christ.
Right on. help others prepare for the mark of the beast when it comes. There will be no buying or selling in this time, although hopefully it is short (perhaps 3.5yrs or so?). Remember Matt 24:43 - But know this, that if the goodman of the house had known in what watch the thief would come, he would have watched, and would not have suffered his house to be broken up. If/when cash is banned, prepare yourself and others for life without money.
My fellow truth-seekers will take the time to read this comment. Whoever the Spirit leads will read. There is no pretribulation rapture. Pretribulation is a man-made doctrine, and is the devil's gospel. Tribulation is the devil's governing oppression over all those in the world who follow Christ. We are in the world, but not of the world. John 16:33,KJV "These things I have spoken unto you, that in me(Christ) ye might have peace. In the world ye shall *have tribulation*: but be of good cheer; I have overcome the world." Tribulation means: distress or suffering resulting from *oppression* or persecution, a trying experience, tribulation means trial.* Acts 14:22 KJV "Confirming the souls of the disciples, and exhorting them to continue in the faith, and that we must through *much tribulation* enter into the kingdom of God." Then said Jesus unto his disciples, "*If any man will come after me, let him *DENY HIMSELF, and TAKE UP HIS CROSS,* and follow me. For whosoever will save his life shall lose it: and whosoever will lose his life for my sake shall find it.*" Matthew 16:24-26 KJV *Tribulation started in Genesis when Adam forfeited his governance over the world, when he obeyed satan instead of God. Satan instead of man(Adam) has been the governing power over the world's ruling powers ever since. (Read Genesis, KJV). Satan rules in the kingdoms of this World. The kingdoms of the world( the empires) are referred to as beasts, because they are kingdoms without the true God( They are antichrists ). Satan is the one who gives the beasts their power. Read the Book of Daniel. Read Revelation to understand the end as it relates to the beginning in Genesis. Matthew 4:8, KJV "Again, the devil taketh him up into an exceeding high mountain, and sheweth him all the kingdoms of the world, and the glory of them; [9] And saith unto him, All these things will I give thee, if thou wilt fall down and worship me." Luke 4:5-8, KJV. "And the devil, taking him up into an high mountain, shewed unto him all the kingdoms of the world in a moment of time. And the devil said unto him, All this *power* will I give thee, and the glory of them: for that is delivered unto me; and to whomsoever I will I give it. If thou therefore wilt worship me, all shall be thine. And Jesus answered and said unto him, Get thee behind me, Satan: for it is written, Thou shalt worship the Lord thy God, and him only shalt thou serve. Do you see? The devil lies: the power was not given to him freely by God. God freely gave Adam(man) dominion over the earth, but Adam through his disobedience losses it to satan, when he *chose* to put faith in the devil rather than God. *Satan( previously known as Lucifer) will continue to rule, though his total ruling power has been forfeited by the sacrificial blood of Christ, and the resurrection of Christ. Satan no longer has power over all souls unless you willingly give satan your soul. Satan and his followers are hellbound. Satan no longer has the key over hell, death and the grave. He cannot hold captive of the souls that belong to Christ. Christ's Sacrificial Blood forfeited all of satan's powers obtained through his deception of man & woman in the Garden of Eden. Revelation 1:17-18, King James Version(KJV) "And when I saw him, I fell at his feet as dead. And he laid his right hand upon me, saying unto me, Fear not; I am the first and the last: I am he that liveth, and was dead; and, behold, I am alive for evermore, Amen; and have the keys of hell and of death." Revelation 3:7, KJV "To the angel of the church in Philadelphia write: These are the words of the One who is holy and true, who holds the key of David. What He opens no one can shut, and what He shuts no one can open." On The Day of Christ: All who are Christ's and are dead will be resurrected, and those in Christ who are still alive until Christ returns will be transformed from mortality to immortality, and rise to the Spiritual( incorruptible bodies)of eternal life and peace, free from suffering, war, and pain. There are no tears, and no need for money in Christ's coming Kingdom, no rich vs poor, no pale skin vs dark skin, no upper-class vs lower-class, no aristocrats vs. peasants, etc. There are no narcissists in Christ's Kingdom. For we are all one in Christ Jesus, and there is no evil, or sin there. Amen!!! The return of Christ: The Day of The Lord, is not a quiet rapture event. *Pretribulation? or After Tribulation? Let God answer the question:* It is written in Matthew 24: 29 -31, KJV.* "*Immediately AFTER THE TRIBULATION of those days* *shall the SUN BE DARKENED, and the MOON SHALL NOT GIVE HER LIGHT, and the STARS SHALL FALL FROM HEAVEN, and the POWERS OF THE HEAVENS SHALL BE SHAKEN:* *And THEN SHALL APPEAR THE SIGN OF THE SON OF MAN IN HEAVEN: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and THEY SHALL SEE THE SON OF MAN COMING IN THE CLOUDS OF HEAVEN WITH POWER AND GREAT GLORY.* *"And He shall send His angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall GATHER TOGETHER HIS ELECT FROM THE FOUR WINDS, FROM ONE END OF HEAVEN TO THE OTHER.*" The Rapture: *"And He shall send His angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall GATHER TOGETHER HIS ELECT FROM THE FOUR WINDS, FROM ONE END OF HEAVEN TO THE OTHER.*" 1 Thessalonians 4:17 King James Version "*Then we which are ALIVE and REMAIN shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.*" Christ has the ultimate power over all. Sin and satan's worldly kingdoms are coming to an end. The new Earth which is called The New Jerusalem will descend from Heaven, and only the meek( All those who belong to Christ) will inherit this Earth. Christ shall be our King, and we shall be His people forever. Christ's Kingdom and the His inheritance of the throne of David will be from everlasting to everlasting. Then you will see true Peace, with the The Prince of Peace who is Christ Jesus.
They called to the mountains and the rocks, "Fall on us and hide us from the face of him who sits on the throne and from the wrath of the Lamb! For the great day of their wrath has come, and who can stand?" Rev 6:16-17. So this proves that the wrath of God occurs on a single day (not over many days); it's the very day that Jesus returns.
Seven vials and seven plagues gonna take some time, Mystery Babylon being destroyed however is one day and hour. The wrath of God is the cup of the wine of his fierceness of Gods wrath, (not Christ or Satans wrath) where great hail out of heaven the weight of a talent falls on the evil ones. Rev.12:11-17 is Satans wrath which could be a life time to many and a month to some, or an hour of temptation.
@@ginj5375 How could we possibly know it was the wrath of the Lamb that is happening (and not just natural disasters) unless the Lamb shows up to order it? Otherwise, it may all just seem to be a series of unfortunate events.
I enjoy watching all your videos. That was a great point about Gods wrath according Delton Romans 1, also Jesus not drinking the wine until the marriage supper of the lamb.
THE MESSAGE FOR AMERICA September, 1984 Dimitru Duduman Late one night, I could not sleep, The children were sleeping on the luggage. My wife and daughter were crying, I went outside and walked around. I didn't want them to see me cry. I walked around the building, crying and saying, "God! Why did you punish me? Why did you bring me into this country? I can't understand anybody. If I try to ask anybody anything, all I hear is, "I don't know." I stopped in front of the apartment and sat on a large rock. Suddenly a bright light came toward me. I jumped to my feet because it looked as if a car was coming directly at me, attempting to run me down! I thought the Romanian Secret Police had tracked me to America, and now they were trying to kill me. But it wasn't a car at all. As the light approached, it surrounded me. From the light I heard the same voice that I had heard so many times in prison. He said "Dumitru, why are you so despaired?" I said, "Why did you punish me? Why did you bring me to this country? I have nowhere to lay my head down. I can't understand anybody." He said, "Dumitru, didn't I tell you I am here with you, also? I brought you to this country because this country will burn." I said, 'then why did you bring me here to burn? Why didn't you let me die in my own country? You should have let me die in jail in Romania! He said, "Dumitru, have patience so I can tell you. Get on this." I got on something next to him. I don't know what it was. I also know that I was not asleep. It was not a dream. It was not a vision. I was awake just as I am now. He showed me all of California and said, "This is Sodom and Gomorrah! All of this, in one day it will burn! It's sin has reached the Holy One." Then he took me to Las Vegas. "This is Sodom and Gomorrah. In one day it will burn." Then he showed me the state of New York. "Do you know what this is?" he asked. I said, "No." He said "This is New York. This is Sodom and Gomorrah! In one day it will burn." Then he showed me all of Florida, "This is Florida." he said. "This is Sodom and Gomorrah! In one day it will burn." Then he took me back home to the rock where we had begun. "IN ONE DAY IT WILL BURN! All of this I have shown you" - I said, "How will it burn?" He said, "Remember what I am telling you, because you will go on television, on the radio and in churches. You must yell with a loud voice. Do not be afraid, because I will be with you." I said, "How will I be able to go? Who knows me here in America? I don't know anybody here." He said, "Don't worry yourself. I will go before you. I will do a lot of healing in the American churches and I will open the doors for you. But do not say anything else besides what I tell you. This country will burn!" I said, "What will you do with the church?" He said, "I want to save the church, but the churches have forsaken me." I said, "How did they forsake you?" He said, "The people praise themselves. The honor that the people are supposed to give Jesus Christ, they take upon themselves. In the churches there are divorces. There is adultery in the churches. There are homosexuals in the churches. There is abortion in the churches and all other sins that are possible. Because of all the sin, I have left some of the churches. You must yell in a loud voice that they must put an end to their sinning. They must turn toward the Lord. The Lord never gets tired of forgiving. They must draw close to the Lord, and live a clean life. If they have sinned until now, they must put an end to it, and start a new life as the Bible tells them to live." I said, "How will America burn?" America is the most powerful country in this world. Why did you bring us here to burn? Why didn't you at least let us die where ALL the Dudumans have died?" He said, "Remember this, Dumitru. The Russian spies have discovered where the nuclear warehouses are in America. When the Americans will think that it is peace and safety - from the middle of the country, some of the people will start fighting against the government. The government will be busy with internal problems. Then from the ocean, from Cuba, Nicaragua, Mexico,,.." (He told me two other countries, but I didn't remember what they were.) "...they will bomb the nuclear warehouses. When they explode, America will burn!" "What will you do with the Church of the Lord? How will you save the ones that will turn toward you?" I asked. He said, "Tell them this: how I saved the three young ones from the furnace of fire, and how I saved Daniel in the lions den, is the same way I will save them." The angel of the Lord also told me, "I have blessed this country because of the Jewish people who are in this country. I have seven million Jews in this country, but they do not want to recognize the Lord. They didn't want to thank God for the blessing they received in this country. Israel doesn't want to recognize Jesus Christ. They put their faith in the Jewish people in America. But, when America burns, the Lord will raise China, Japan, and other nations to go against the Russians. They will beat the Russians and push them all the way to the gates of Paris. Over there they will make a treaty, and appoint the Russians as their leaders. They will then unite against Israel. When Israel realizes she does not have the strength of America behind her, she will be frightened. That's when she will turn to the Messiah for deliverance. That's when the Messiah will come. Then, the church will meet Jesus in the air, and he will bring them back with Him to the Mount of Olives. At that time, the battle of Armageddon will be fought." When I heard all of this I said, "if you are truly the angel of the Lord, and everything you have told me is true, then all you have said must be written in the Bible." He said, "Tell everyone to read from Jeremiah 51:8-15, Revelation chapter 18, and Zechariah chapter 14, where Christ fights against those who possess the earth. After His victory," the angel said, "there will be one flock and one Shepherd. There will be no need for light. The Lamb of God will be the Light. There will be no sickness, no tears, and no deaths. There will only be eternal joy and God will be the ruler. There will be only one language. Only one song. And no need for a translator! ... And, Dumitru," he continued, "a word of warning. If you keep anything from the American people that you are told, I will punish you severely." "How will I know that this is for real -that it will really happen?" I asked. "As a sign that I have spoken to you, tomorrow before you wake, I will send someone to bring you a bed, and at noon I will send you a car and a bucket of honey. After which I will send someone to pay your rent." The next day someone brought Dumitru a bed, and at noon a car arrived with the bucket of honey. His rent was also paid, as God had promised him. (See chapter 10, "THROUGH THE FIRE WITHOUT BURNING.") Then the angel left. Excepted from: Dreams and Visions From God
There's a lot of people trying to figure things out these days. Whether it's what year is the last yr before Jesus returns or what the powers that be are doing behind close doors. To me the more we try to figure out, the more we take away from just having faith that the Lord's word will has told us all we need to know and that as long as we have true faith in him, then we'll be just fine in the end whenever that is. Because If you know all the answers, then what's the point of faith? To me, what God has been trying to get us to understand from the very beginning of the Bible all the way to the end is to just have faith in Him.
@@robertvann7349 Who says he doesn't know? When he set aside his power and glory, he set aside certain knowledge so that he could live a perfect life relying on Holy Spirit. He is now fully glorified, and he knows the day and Hour.
Joel, what do you think about when the trumpet sounds he calls the Saints to dine at the wedding feast, just as he calls all the fowls of the air to FEAST ON THE FLESH OF HIS ENEMIES AND KINGS. LMK What you think? Bless you thank you for your teachings. Shalom.
Beloved, we are not appointed to God’s wrath because Jesus bore all of our sinful punishment on the cross. Who will open the seals judgements which will begin the Tribulation?-Jesus. Who will command the heavenly angels to blow the trumpets and pour out the vials?-Lord Jesus. Thus, the entire Tribulation is God’s wrath, and just as we will escape eternal hell, we will escape the entire Tribulation. Amen. Also, notice the wording in Revelation 5:9: “And they sung a new song, saying, Thou art worthy to take the book, and to open the seals thereof: for thou wast slain, and hast redeemed us to God by thy blood out of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation.” That’s the Church in Heaven, worshipping our Lord Jesus Christ BEFORE the Tribulation commences.
then why is WRATH (ORGE) found .... 1) AFTER the signs in the sun, moon and stars which Jesus told us COMES IMMEDIATELY AFTER the tribulation Rev. 6 2) After trumpet 7 which is the resurrrection trumpet AT THE LAST DAY Rev. 11 3) After the Son of man is seen on a cloud Rev. 14 4) After vial 7 which is tthe rapture at the coming of the thief Rev. 16 5) After His coming on a white horse for the marraige supper Rev. 19 lack of knowledge DESTROYS God's people .
your words --- > That’s the Church in Heaven, worshipping our Lord Jesus Christ BEFORE the Tribulation commences. ummm, so there are only 24 raptured in the pre tribulation rapture? D E L U S I O N A L .
According to the biblical example and foreshadowing of the wrath of God we have in the story of Noah and Lot, wrath is immediately, if not, simultaneously at the moment of the removal of the righteous. In both events, as God was saving Lot and Noah's families, wrath was being dispensed simultaneously. At the resurrection of the just, the same is true. Once those that are alive and remain are resurrected, immediately the 1st vial of wrath is poured out along with other bowls sequentially (7 bowls to be exact). The Bible gives no framework of duration of God's wrath, only that it occurs immediately after the resurrection, during the day of the Lord.
God clearly gave His 7 x 1000 year salvation Plan from the very beginning including telling us Jesus (Son of God) will rule "sinful" Mankind for 1000 years. The 2nd Coming is in the year 6000 ... and the end of time & the Universe is in the year 7000. God always knew .. it would take 7000 years ... to save the Children of God (Son) from the Children of Man (Adam). And time, laws of Nature, decay & death ... began in the Universe only ... when Adam & Eve sinned 5994 years ago. God is only going to destroy the Universe ... after the 7000 years ... He gave to Mankind to procreate. And Jesus (Son of God) will rule this sinful Mankind ... for 1000 years ... with only the 144 000 Chosen Jews. You do not know the day or hour ... you die .... and your soul leaves the Universe & time and goes straight to Judgement day. Inside the Universe ... Judgement Day is in the future ( 7000 AM) Outside of the Universe ... all .... have been judged and either sent to Heaven to be with Jesus forever or sent to Hell to die after 3 "earth" days This is why Jesus had to die on the cross ... then spend 3 days in Hell. Hell will destroy a sinful soul ... after 3 "earth" days. But Jesus did not sin in Hell ... and therefore after 3 days ... he fulfilled being the sin sacrifice ... and was resurrected by God (Father & Spirit). Spent 40 days with believers ... then was RAPTURED to Heaven with a new body ... to greet the saved Thief who died with Him on the cross 43 days ago for those alive on Earth. Jesus promised this Thief that they will both be in Heaven ... this day. The Prophets did not understand time vs timelessness .. in the visions of the 2nd coming & the end of the Universe .. & ... God is only interested in winning Spiritual War ... not a silly war with tanks & guns on Earth. God's Wrath ... is .. the flood and ... the end of the Universe which we have always know to be in the year 7000. It is only the year 5994.
Once again, thank you Joel on your clear teaching on this matter. I just refer everyone to your teachings to get clarity. I realy realy appreciate the fact that you debunk the lies that early apostles held to pre-trib beliefs. There is such a blind, even hostile, belief with pre-tribbers that I dont understand. It is a very aggressive spirit that literally tells you that you are going to "stay behind" if you dont believe pre-trib. Why would that be as it VERY CLEARLY is NOT a salvation issue. If we are wrong, good news for us, but will pre-tribbers be ready to endure when their hope slowly gets dashed when things get tough? I would rather have them prepared for the worst, hoping for the best so to speak. But yes, we appreciate your good solid word and historical fact-based teachings. Many blessings to you and your family, praying for your wife still. Yolande, saying Shalom to everyone from PE, South Africa.
I too am looking for any minute to be raptured out, and I will continue to do so because of being instructed to watch and wait by scripture. Every moment that passes I am that much closer, and I grow more focused on my Savior and the word. In Psalm 37:25, "the righteous have never been forsaken" so I go with that and the fact that he is more than trustworthy. I know my own righteousness is as filthy rags, so I will not pretend that I could ever have anything better to offer God except the offering he prepared for me and that is the "precious Lamb slain" that paid the debt I owed that I could not pay. So if my wait is 5 minutes, 5 hours, 5 days, 5 weeks, 5 months, 5 years or 5 decades I do not care, I have my eye on the prize, and that is the marriage supper of the Lamb in the place he has prepared for me. Hebrews 9:28 to a group (prolly small) of those "watching for his appearance" he will appear the second time for the purpose of salvation. Only those people will see him at this particular event. I plan to be one of them.
then why is WRATH (ORGE) found .... 1) AFTER the signs in the sun, moon and stars which Jesus told us COMES IMMEDIATELY AFTER the tribulation Rev. 6 2) After trumpet 7 which is the resurrrection trumpet AT THE LAST DAY Rev. 11 3) After the Son of man is seen on a cloud Rev. 14 4) After vial 7 which is tthe rapture at the coming of the thief Rev. 16 5) After His coming on a white horse for the marraige supper Rev. 19 lack of knowledge DESTROYS God's people .
1Th 1:10 can’t be reduced, watered down, to Gods everyday wrath. It has the definite article in front of it. It’s a specific wrath. Also, it’s wrath that hasn’t come yet. “Who delivers us from the wrath to come.”
Joel, I have only watched to the 5:30 mark at this point. I deeply agree with much you have said so far. I think we need to have a discussion about the "2nd coming". I will listen all the way through, but I perceive that you (as many others) are trying to view the "2nd coming" as a single, point-in-time event. So, can you please describe His 1st coming? Was it a single, point-in-time event? I think the answer is, "No". So why would you expect His 2nd coming to be any different? Just something to think about. I will probably post an additional reply, once I am done.
Your words --- > So, can you please describe His 1st coming? Was it a single, point-in-time event? I think the answer is, "No". So why would you expect His 2nd coming to be any different? Just something to think about. I will probably post an additional reply, once I am done. UMM, HOW MANY POINTS IN TIME DID JESUS COME, BORN IN A MANGER? ???
The great trib being cut short is the great trib against the saints. The 3 1/2 years and the 1260 and 1335 days are in a different context. In Daniel when he says they will be persecuted for 3 1/2 years he did not know that the great trib was going to be cut short, plus when he says the saints, in the context who are these people? they're not christians because the gentiles coming into the faith was a mystery.
I’m now a post tribber; however, I only struggle with the fact about people marrying, giving in marriage, etc. how can that be during that horrific timeframe of the trib.
The same reason the people around Noah were partying, going about their business, and mocking Noah. Those that get marked will be loving life right up until that dreadful day.
In Noah's day people were living life doing normal things with no idea destruction was at the door. Read for yourself the words of Jesus in Matthew 24:37-39. As it was in the days of Noah, so it will be at the coming of the Son of Man. For in the days before the flood, people were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, up to the day Noah entered the ark; and they knew nothing about what would happen until the flood came and took them all away. That is how it will be at the coming of the Son of Man."
Because they're unaware of the coming wrath. They're not subject to the AC or Satan trying to kill them or persecute them. Only the saints or the church is aware of this and being persecuted and killed
Follow & obey God ( Bible) not Man ( interpretation of the Bible). There is no time in Heaven & Hell. Time, laws of Nature, decay & death ... only exist in the Universe ... and began when Adam & Eve sinned. You do not know the day or hour ... you die ... and your soul leaves the Universe with time ... and goes straight to Judgment Day ... to either join Jesus in Heaven forever or be sent to Hell to perish after 3 ... earth ... days. The punishment for sin by Man ... is death (body & soul). You sin, you must die (body or Earth, soul in Hell). And all will sin so all must die. But all God asks of sinful Man ... is to follow & obey God (Father, Son & Spirit) ... not ... Man. For God always knew & told us from the very beginning that it would take 7 x 1000 years of procreation ....to save the Children of God (Son) from the Children of Man(Adam). And the last 1000 of 7000 years .... God (Son) will rule ... sinful Man. Jesus returns in the year 6000 (2030) with the 144 000 to rule the Earth for 1000 years. At the 2nd Coming ... the Believers alive on Earth .. are raptured to Heaven ... to be with Jesus forever ever. Again. There is no time in Heave or Hell. Time only exist in the Universe with the living. And God is only interested in "Spiritual" warfare not actual war with tanks & guns on Earth. The Prophets did not understand time vs timelessness what is spiritual or actual warfare. You do not know the day or hour ... you die. Rapture for a Believer ... is when he/she ... dies or is alive in the year 6000 or 7 000. Man has 7 000 years to procreate God's Children ... not 6000 years. As the year 6000 is 2030. Only Jesus & the 144 000 Chosen male Jews ... will rule Mankind for 1000 years. The new believers over the 1000 year reign ... will live & die as normal human beings .. while Jesus is ruling the world from Jerusalem. And the Believers alive in the year 7000 will witness Satan gathering the Armies of the world against Jesus ... and finally God declares Judgement day ... and they are rapture to Heaven to be with their brothers & sisters ... who had died over the past 7 000 years. See. This is what the Prophets did not understand time vs timelessness. Satan is currently on Earth with us living ... but ... is also in Hell being punished forever. Inside the Universe Judgement day is in the future. Outside of the Universe ... all have been judged and sent to Heaven or Hell.
Marrying and giving into marriage, in other words living life as usual: This refers to the wicked and ungodly generation. They are not expecting the return of Christ. To them, Christ will come as a thief in the night, in otherwords suddenly. Suddenly destruction falls like in the Days of Noah, and Lot. How evil was the world then, that no mention of any children of that wicked generation on the Ark? My fellow truth-seekers will take the time to read this comment. Whoever the Spirit leads will read. There is no pretribulation rapture. Pretribulation is a man-made doctrine, and is the devil's gospel. Tribulation is the devil's governing oppression over all those in the world who follow Christ. We are in the world, but not of the world. John 16:33,KJV "These things I have spoken unto you, that in me(Christ) ye might have peace. In the world ye shall *have tribulation*: but be of good cheer; I have overcome the world." Tribulation means: distress or suffering resulting from *oppression* or persecution, a trying experience, tribulation means trial.* Acts 14:22 KJV "Confirming the souls of the disciples, and exhorting them to continue in the faith, and that we must through *much tribulation* enter into the kingdom of God." Then said Jesus unto his disciples, "*If any man will come after me, let him *DENY HIMSELF, and TAKE UP HIS CROSS,* and follow me. For whosoever will save his life shall lose it: and whosoever will lose his life for my sake shall find it.*" Matthew 16:24-26 KJV *Tribulation started in Genesis when Adam forfeited his governance over the world, when he obeyed satan instead of God. Satan instead of man(Adam) has been the governing power over the world's ruling powers ever since. (Read Genesis, KJV). Satan rules in the kingdoms of this World. The kingdoms of the world( the empires) are referred to as beasts, because they are kingdoms without the true God( They are antichrists ). Satan is the one who gives the beasts their power. Read the Book of Daniel. Read Revelation to understand the end as it relates to the beginning in Genesis. Matthew 4:8, KJV "Again, the devil taketh him up into an exceeding high mountain, and sheweth him all the kingdoms of the world, and the glory of them; [9] And saith unto him, All these things will I give thee, if thou wilt fall down and worship me." Luke 4:5-8, KJV. "And the devil, taking him up into an high mountain, shewed unto him all the kingdoms of the world in a moment of time. And the devil said unto him, All this *power* will I give thee, and the glory of them: for that is delivered unto me; and to whomsoever I will I give it. If thou therefore wilt worship me, all shall be thine. And Jesus answered and said unto him, Get thee behind me, Satan: for it is written, Thou shalt worship the Lord thy God, and him only shalt thou serve. Do you see? The devil lies: the power was not given to him freely by God. God freely gave Adam(man) dominion over the earth, but Adam through his disobedience losses it to satan, when he *chose* to put faith in the devil rather than God. *Satan( previously known as Lucifer) will continue to rule, though his total ruling power has been forfeited by the sacrificial blood of Christ, and the resurrection of Christ. Satan no longer has power over all souls unless you willingly give satan your soul. Satan and his followers are hellbound. Satan no longer has the key over hell, death and the grave. He cannot hold captive of the souls that belong to Christ. Christ's Sacrificial Blood forfeited all of satan's powers obtained through his deception of man & woman in the Garden of Eden. Revelation 1:17-18, King James Version(KJV) "And when I saw him, I fell at his feet as dead. And he laid his right hand upon me, saying unto me, Fear not; I am the first and the last: I am he that liveth, and was dead; and, behold, I am alive for evermore, Amen; and have the keys of hell and of death." Revelation 3:7, KJV "To the angel of the church in Philadelphia write: These are the words of the One who is holy and true, who holds the key of David. What He opens no one can shut, and what He shuts no one can open." On The Day of Christ: All who are Christ's and are dead will be resurrected, and those in Christ who are still alive until Christ returns will be transformed from mortality to immortality, and rise to the Spiritual( incorruptible bodies)of eternal life and peace, free from suffering, war, and pain. There are no tears, and no need for money in Christ's coming Kingdom, no rich vs poor, no pale skin vs dark skin, no upper-class vs lower-class, no aristocrats vs. peasants, etc. There are no narcissists in Christ's Kingdom. For we are all one in Christ Jesus, and there is no evil, or sin there. Amen!!! The return of Christ: The Day of The Lord, is not a quiet rapture event. *Pretribulation? or After Tribulation? Let God answer the question:* It is written in Matthew 24: 29 -31, KJV.* "*Immediately AFTER THE TRIBULATION of those days* *shall the SUN BE DARKENED, and the MOON SHALL NOT GIVE HER LIGHT, and the STARS SHALL FALL FROM HEAVEN, and the POWERS OF THE HEAVENS SHALL BE SHAKEN:* *And THEN SHALL APPEAR THE SIGN OF THE SON OF MAN IN HEAVEN: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and THEY SHALL SEE THE SON OF MAN COMING IN THE CLOUDS OF HEAVEN WITH POWER AND GREAT GLORY.* *"And He shall send His angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall GATHER TOGETHER HIS ELECT FROM THE FOUR WINDS, FROM ONE END OF HEAVEN TO THE OTHER.*" The Rapture: *"And He shall send His angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall GATHER TOGETHER HIS ELECT FROM THE FOUR WINDS, FROM ONE END OF HEAVEN TO THE OTHER.*" 1 Thessalonians 4:17 King James Version "*Then we which are ALIVE and REMAIN shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.*" Christ has the ultimate power over all. Sin and satan's worldly kingdoms are coming to an end. The new Earth which is called The New Jerusalem will descend from Heaven, and only the meek( All those who belong to Christ) will inherit this Earth. Christ shall be our King, and we shall be His people forever. Christ's Kingdom and the His inheritance of the throne of David will be from everlasting to everlasting. Then you will see true Peace, with the The Prince of Peace who is Christ Jesus.
I really enjoy your videos, I’m on the fence about the timing of the rapture. I wanted to ask your viewpoint of a couple pre trib arguments I’ve heard. If we are raptured at the end and our bodies transformed, who is it that will populate the millenium? Also, why did Jesus say He went to prepare a place for us in Heaven if we would simply come back to Earth for the millenium?
God always has a remnant. you can read about the remnant after the rapture Rev. 11 12 And they heard a great voice from heaven saying unto them, Come up hither. And they ascended up to heaven in a cloud; and their enemies beheld them. 13 And the same hour was there a great earthquake, and the tenth part of the city fell, and in the earthquake were slain of men seven thousand: and 👉the remnant👈 were affrighted, and gave glory to the God of heaven. WE already occupy the heavenly place Jesus prepared for us Eph. 2 6 And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus: "hath" and "made" are past tense already done. .
I really think that the 6th seal is the timing of the rapture and for multiple reasons. 1. I think Revelation 6:12-17 is the commencing of the Day of the Lord. It matches passages like Joel 2:31-32 and Isaiah 34:4-8. Note the deliverance in Joel 2:32. Paul quotes this verse speaking to Roman Gentiles in Romans 10:12-13... and we have all the same elements as we see in all the Olivet Discourse passages. Jesus is revealed from heaven here in Revelation 6:16. And the tribes of earth are mourning and fearful just like described in Matthew 24:30 and Luke 21:26. 2. The angels haven't been permitted to harm the earth yet in Revelation 7:1-3. And just like with the example of Noah and Lot, as we read in Genesis 19, the angels cannot do anything until Lot escapes. Luke 17:29-30 then also confirms that similar to Lot escaping Sodom, someone is escaping on the same day as the Son of Man is revealed. As I already showed, Jesus was revealed in Revelation 6:16. Revelation 7 is happening on this same day as Jesus is revealed. 2nd Thessalonians 1:6-10 also describes a rest for believers on the Day that Jesus is revealed from heaven... [with mighty angels], to take vengeance. 3. Also as already discussed, Luke 17:29-30 does not just say that Lot needs to escape on the same day as the Son of Man is revealed, but that there must also be fire and brimstone raining down from heaven... all on the same day. We see the first instance of fire from heaven in the 1st Trumpet in Revelation 8:4-7. And verse 1 says only a half an hour separates the 6th seal from the 1st Trumpet. So, indeed all three things are occurring on the same day. 1. Son of Man revealed 2. Escape like that of Lot from Sodom. 3. Fire and brimstone rain down from heaven. Joel 2 is a "Day of the Lord" passage. It says so plainly. And compare Joel 2:30 with Revelation 8:7 Also interestingly, compare Numbers 16:46 with Revelation 8:1-4
Job 14 12 So man lieth down, and riseth not: till the heavens be no more, they shall not awake, nor be raised out of their sleep. as long as the heavens exist, there is no resurrection of the dead 2 Peter 3 says the heavens pass away at the day of the Lord so the resurrection must be after the day of the Lord commences Notice, there are signs in the heavens at seal 6 the heavens stiill exist, no resurrection has occured notice there are signs in the heavens at trumpet 4 the heavens still exist, no resurrection has occured notice there are signs in the heavens at vial 4 the heavens still exist, no resurrection has occured and we all know according to 1 Thes. 4 the resurrection is BEFORE the rapture. the very event that all pre tibulation rapture worshipers ignore. .
@GodsOwnGodZone Mark 13:24-27 is an Olivet Discourse passage too and it includes a gathering of all those on the earth and in heaven. Sounds like rapture and resurrection. This is consistent with Ephesians 1:10. Just because the resurrection isn't mentioned by name here in Revelation 7, does not mean that it is not occurring here. Matthew 24:31 only mentions a gathering of the elect in heaven. Luke 21:28 describes a redemption of the people on earth who are suppose to look up when they see the Son of Man coming in the clouds. Mark 13:27 includes both And all three of these match Revelation 6:12-7:9 The innumerable multitude appears to be raptured saints, but they may very well be accompanied with the resurrected dead who were raised first. Paul links Isaiah 52 and 60 to a resurrection in Ephesians 5:14. And there's a very curious event occurring in Isaiah 52:10-15. Note the kings of the earth in verse 15. Kings of the earth in Revelation 6:15 too. The heavens have receded like a scroll in Revelation 6:12-14. Their destruction is probably what leads to all the horrific events that we read about in the rest of the book of Revelation, such as things like mountains crashing into the earth, scorching heat, and fire, brimstone, and hailstones falling from the sky. 2nd Peter 3 says all these things are associated with the Day of the Lord and those things begin here... after the 6th seal. But Lot has to escape Sodom first. And even on the same day as these things commence. Luke 21:34-36. "Stand before the Son of Man." Verse 36 Revelation 7:9 "Standing before the throne and before the Lamb." We are told in Scripture that every word will be established by the testimony of two or three witnesses. And surely God does nothing unless He reveals His secret to His servants the prophets. We therefore just need to match them up. Isaiah 34:16, 2nd Peter 1:20, Ecclesiastes 12:11 We then gain better understanding and context. Jesus exampled this for us in Matthew 4.
@@seasquawker revelation 7 shows the multitude serving God IN HIS TEMPLE REV. 7 15 Therefore are they before the throne of God, and serve him day and night in his temple: and he that sitteth on the throne shall dwell among them. and Revelation 15 IS VERY CLEAR NO MAN has access to the temple until the Plagues are done Rev. 15 8 And the temple was filled with smoke from the glory of God, and from his power; and no man was able to enter into the temple, till the seven plagues of the seven angels were fulfilled. Please study your bible ok? Thx .
@@seasquawker Luke 21:28 describes a redemption of the people on earth who are suppose to look up when they see the Son of Man coming in the clouds. THAT IS CHRISTIANS WAITING FOR THE LORD TO COME IN THE CLOUDS WITH POWER and GLORY AFTER tribulation AFTER the signs in the sun, moon and stars
Good stuff, as always. Would you go so far as to be super practical and advise Believers to have, oh, I don't know, a three-and-a-half year supply of food stocked up? Also, historically speaking, the Church has long suffered through the same cataclysms as the World - economic depressions, plagues, and wars - and has further suffered horrible martyrdoms in Communist and Islamic countries. I don't see any HISTORICAL reason why the Church should be spared a further bit of suffering and martyrdom in the Tribulation any less than what we've already experienced historically.
Stocking up food would seem wise, and having emergency supplies is never a bad idea, but if you think that saving a 3.5 to 7 year supply of food and medical provisions will keep you safe; if you rely on your forethought and ingenuity to save you, you might find that "hoarding" becomes a crime and you are arrested, you may be robbed, you may be forced to move and unable to take your cache with you. So, prepare, but be prepared to face being unprepared...as long as you are prepared with enough "OIL."
adding Paul's last trumpet resurrection and MYSTERY(1 cor. 15: 51-52) and resurrection AT HIS COMING(1 cor. 15: 23) to Jesus' AT THE LAST DAY( john 6: 39, 40, 44, 54) ... ... I strongly believe all these clues point to Revelation 10 and 11. The angel swaring the end of time, trumpet 7, the last trumpet and the MYSTERY complete Rev. 10 5 And the angel which I saw stand upon the sea and upon the earth lifted up his hand to heaven, 6 And sware by him that liveth for ever and ever, who created heaven, and the things that therein are, and the earth, and the things that therein are, and the sea, and the things which are therein, that there should be time no longer: 7 But in the days of the voice of the seventh angel, when he shall begin to sound, the mystery of God should be finished, as he hath declared to his servants the prophets. the resurrection and rapture in the clouds of OUR BROTHERS IN CHRIST, the two witnesses at trumpet 7 Revelation 11: 11-12, 15 11 And after three days and an half the spirit of life from God entered into them, and they stood upon their feet; and great fear fell upon them which saw them. 12 And they heard a great voice from heaven saying unto them, Come up hither. And they ascended up to heaven in a cloud; and their enemies beheld them. 15 And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever. I hope this answers your question. .
I understand what your saying but the NT teaches that it's consecutive and that's a fact. The Seals, Trumpet and Bowls are Consecutive-Progressive. The 7th seal opens the 7 trumpets. Rev 8:1: And when He opened the seventh seal there was a stillness in heaven for about half an hour. 2 And I saw the seven angels who stood before God, and seven trumpets were given to them. The 7th trumpet opens the 7 bowls. Rev 11:15-19 So the seventh angel trumpeted... Rev 12:1-14:20 is a parenthetical interlude that goes back to develop events. Rev 15:1 And I saw another sign in heaven, great and marvelous: seven angels having the seven last plagues-in them the fury of God is completed. Rev 16:1 And I heard a loud voice from the sanctuary saying to the seven angels, “Go, pour out the bowls of God's fury on the earth.” So as you can see from the text the seal, trumpets and bowls are Consecutive and there is no getting around it.
congruent the wrath after trumpet 7 is the same as the wrath after vial 7 The 7 Plagues Plague 1) earth 1st trumpet - The first angel sounded, and there followed hail and fire mingled with blood, and they were cast upon the earth 1st vial - And the first went, and poured out his vial upon the earth; Plague 2) sea 2nd trumpet - and as it were a great mountain burning with fire was cast into the sea: 2nd vial - And the second angel poured out his vial upon the sea; Plague 3) waters 3rd trumpet - and it fell upon the third part of the rivers, and upon the fountains of waters; 3rd vial - And the third angel poured out his vial upon the rivers and fountains of waters; Plague 4) sun 4th trumpet - and the third part of the sun was smitten, 4th vial - And the fourth angel poured out his vial upon the sun Plague 5) darkness and pain for the kingdom of the beast 5th trumpet - and the sun and the air were darkened - and their torment was as the torment of a scorpion, when he striketh a man. And they had a king over them, which is the angel of the bottomless pit 5th vial - And the fifth angel poured out his vial upon the seat of the beast; and his kingdom was full of darkness; and they gnawed their tongues for pain, Plague 6) Euphrates 6th trumpet - Loose the four angels which are bound in the great river Euphrates. 6th vial - And the sixth angel poured out his vial upon the great river Euphrates; Plague 7) 7th trumpet - and there were lightnings, and voices, and thunderings, and an earthquake, and great hail. 7th vial - And there were voices, and thunders, and lightnings; and there was a great earthquake, And there fell upon men a great hail out of heaven. .
the words AND I SAW in Revelation 8: 2 is the begining of a scene change in John's vision between the seals and trumpets notice HE DID NOT SAY and THEN I SAW, which would tell us its chronological
Job 14 12 So man lieth down, and riseth not: till the heavens be no more, they shall not awake, nor be raised out of their sleep. as long as the heavens exist, there is no resurrection of the dead 2 Peter 3 says the heavens pass away at the day of the Lord so the resurrection must be after the day of the Lord commences Notice, there are signs in the heavens at seal 6 the heavens stiill exist, no resurrection has occured notice there are signs in the heavens at trumpet 4 the heavens still exist, no resurrection has occured notice there are signs in the heavens at vial 4 the heavens still exist, no resurrection has occured and we all know according to 1 Thes. 4 the resurrection is BEFORE the rapture. the very event that all pre tibulation rapture worshipers ignore. .
@@GodsOwnGodZone Grace to you, You're trying really hard to avoid the obvious, read it again, scripture does not contradict it self. The Seals, Trumpet and Bowls are Consecutive-Progressive as I have posted. You said"the wrath after trumpet 7 is the same as the wrath after vial 7" That is not what the text says, just because they are similar does not mean they are the same, Plus as I have posted the NT says they are Consecutive-Progressive, your statement contradicts what the text has already said.
@@troy5659 sorry pal, you are wrong the trumpets + the vials are the last 7 plagues. IF YOU THINK GOD IS GOING TO SEND THE SAME WRATH TWICE UPON THE EARTH, YOU ARE GRAVELY MISTAKEN Just because YOU think they are consecutive doesn't make it so. If the vials ONLY are the 7 last plagues THEN WHY DID JOHN CALL THE TRUMPETS "PLAGUES" Rev 9 20 And the rest of the men which were not killed by 👉these plagues yet repented not of the works of their hands, that they should not worship devils, and idols of gold, and silver, and brass, and stone, and of wood: which neither can see, nor hear, nor walk: THAT WOULD MEAN THERE ARE 14 last plagues, and NOT 7. PLUS the thief gathers those who are watching at VIAL 7 and HE BLESSES THEM HE CERTAINLY IS NOT BLESSING WICKED and godless LEFT-BEHINDERS Revelation 16 15 Behold, I come as a thief. Blessed is he that watcheth, and keepeth his garments, lest he walk naked, and they see his shame. 16 And he gathered them together into a place called in the Hebrew tongue Armageddon. 17 And the seventh angel poured out his vial into the air; and there came a great voice out of the temple of heaven, from the throne, saying, It is done. ENDURE TO THE END as JESUS TOLD US TO DO. or be a child of DISOBEDIENCE and get the wrath Ephesians 5 6 Let no man deceive you with vain words: for because of these things cometh the wrath of God upon the children of disobedience.
Joel in response to the comments right around 17 minutes 14 seconds in this video where you said when the rapture takes place were caught up in the air and we immediately return with the Lord for his second coming, what about the marriage supper of the lamb? Wouldn’t the ruptured Christians go to the marriage supper of the lamb? spend some time in heaven with Jesus before the return. Time doesn’t exist in heaven. The raptured Christians could go to the marriage supper lamb in heaven for a length of time and come back at the second coming, from an earthly point of view this could be simultaneous, but those that are in heaven it could be a good length of time. Just wanted your thoughts on this, love your videos.
HEY JOEL Does it make sense to you that those who take the mark of the beast get sores at vial 1 AFTER the global resurrection of the dead at trumpet 7 Considering the global resurrection includes those that done good and those that done evil John 5 28 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice, 29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation. since the dead, both good and evil are raised at His coming it would also make sense the all those alive are changed to immortal both the good and the evil so why would the beast worshipers get sores AFTER they have been changed? ???
Im sorry Joel, but i have NEVER heard Jan Markell say that if one doesnt believe in a pre-trib rapture that means you are liberal or walking away from your Faith. We are ALL brothers/sisters in Christ. We will all go up together no matter when the Rapture will be. Please do not be condescending of your brothers and sisters in Christ.
Paul told us the rapture is AFTER the resurrection of the dead 1 Thes. 4 16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: 17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord. Daniel places the resurrection of the dead AFTER a time of trouble which Jesus called great tribulation Daniel 12 And at that time shall Michael stand up, the great prince which standeth for the children of thy people: and there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time: and at that time thy people shall be delivered, every one that shall be found written in the book. 2 And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt. It would take the gift of strong delusion to confuse this simple order of events. .
Pre wrath and post trib are the same thing. The tribulation is 1-6 seal and 1-7 trumpets. The wrath is after hhe 7th trumpet. The rapture or harvest is the 6th seal/7th trumpet. One event one time shown twice. End of the 6th seal is the rapture and the end of the 7th trumpet is the same event. Any questions on it and ill try and show. Most wont see it though because they still believe in a pretrib rapture.
The first resurrection is tied to those that "are alive and remain" for the remaining, living saints will be changed when Christ returns. But the dead in Christ will be raised first. (1 Thessalonians 4:16-17) To be "in Christ" (as in sanctified in Christ and taken into the presence of God the Father a person must be confessed by Christ to his Father. Except for those who are the first resurrected that only happens after judgment. Christians who must be judged will be judged in the "second death" on the "last day"and their names will also have to be found in the book of life. The foolish virgins will get their time to plead their cause before the white throne of judgment just like those who thought they were Spirit filled but rejected in Matthew 7:21-23 but they will fail. 1 Corinthians 15:23 "those who are Christ's at his coming" are those of the first resurrection because they will not be subject to the power of the second death because their works follow (Strong's 150>follow = accompany) them. Those of the first resurrection will be holy and blessed which makes then candidates for the first resurrection. All others will be judged in Revelation 20:11-15 from the books of their works and those whose names are not found in the book of life will be cast into the lake of fire. To get ones name in the book of life they must be born again. If a person is not born again they will not see or enter the kingdom of heaven (John 3:1-6). Just because a person is born again does not mean they have a guaranteed entry into the kingdom of God. Revelation 3:1-6 Jesus warns the church in Sardis that they have a number who have soiled their garments and they must repent of Christ will blot out their names from the book of life. Jesus will only resurrect the holy and blessed to serve with him and the Father during the millennium. The first resurrection Revelation 20:4-6 is only for martyrs. Pre-wrath rapture is unsubstantiated through out scripture. Hebrews 9:27 "as it is appointed unto man once to die and then the judgment but that judgment only happens on the "last day" All the plagues sent upon the people of earth before the Lord returns is to cause them to repent. Christians will not suffer the boils from taking the mark of the beast. Christians will not be stung by the locusts with scorpion tails because they will be sealed by God. Go protects his own. For instance Noah stayed in the world while the world around him was destroyed. The righteous were protected and the wicked were removed. In Egypt the children of Israel were eventually separated from the Egyptians for roughly the last five plagues. The Israeli children were far from righteous but were spared while in Egypt. Hezekiah went to God and prayed and Sennacherib's army was destroyed but not one Israeli was hurt. Lot left his home and barely escaped the judgment God sent on the cities of Sodom and Gomorrah. But Lot dawdled. Lot was not raptured and his wife perished because she disobeyed. It will be that close. Beneath the altar in Revelation 6:9 souls were revealed that had been killed for their testimony and they cried out to God wanting to know how long before God exacted vengeance upon the people of the earth for their blood. The Lord told them to rest a little while until the number of their brethren and fellow-servants who must die in like manner as them was fulfilled. Those souls were holy ( whatsoever is placed on the altar is holy). They were given white Robes as a testimony of their righteousness and in like manner the Spirit declares they were blessed in Revelation 14:13. Holy and blessed is the description of the saints in Revelation 20:4-6 which says they would not have to face the second death The Revelation 6:9-11 passage is believed by many to be about when the great tribulation starts is The fifth seal. Revelation 20:5 states those that serve with the Lord during the millennium period are all of the first resurrection and no others are raised to life until the millennium period is over. The last day of the millennium period is the "last day" resurrection spoken of many times in John Chapter 6. As in the past God will protect his obedient people but will condemn the wicked. Christians can be and will be present but God will protect them. God will cut the time short because otherwise there would be not flesh left and flesh will be needed to repopulate the world as in Isaiah 65:20-25 and Zechariah 14:16-19. As in the Exodus there will be survivors who are not strong believes when Christ returns.
And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day. John 6:40 (KJV)
Why the timing of the rapture matters; when you are threatened with persecution and compelled to put a mark in your right hand to allow you to buy/sell, what are you going to do? pray for deliverance? but if you got it wrong and you and your family will be subject to tribulation and cannot buy food, then you might have to watch your family starve or be imprisoned or killed. If you take a moment to imagine what surviving without money looks like while being ostracised from society, you have to acknowledge that you should be prepared for this. When CBDCs are brought in and cash is abolished, you know it is time to get out of the city and plant a vege garden. That's all I am sayin'
(Sorry did not watch whole video yet) In short: one question, I believe the rapture happens literally at the 7the trumpet and the final stage of his return is at Armageddon, is this reasoning correct !?
I believe the resurrection of the dead is at trumpet 7 and the rapture is the same LAST DAY at vial 7 trumpets AND vials together = the 7 last plagues. John calls the events during the trumpets .... Revelation 9 20 And the rest of the men which were not killed by these 👉plagues👈 yet repented not of the works of their hands, that they should not worship devils, and idols of gold, and silver, and brass, and stone, and of wood: which neither can see, nor hear, nor walk: Here we see the thief comes and blessing those watching and gathers them together Revelation 16 15 Behold, I come as a thief. Blessed is he that watcheth, and keepeth his garments, lest he walk naked, and they see his shame. 16 And he gathered them together into a place called in the Hebrew tongue Armageddon. 17 And the seventh angel poured out his vial into the air; and there came a great voice out of the temple of heaven, from the throne, saying, It is done. I think you have a good understanding more than most who deny trumpet 7 completely .
There is one verse that eliminates the pretrib, midtrib and prewrath doctrines. There is more than just one verse, but I am going to provide one that will convince anyone that it excludes the pretrib, midtrib, and prewrath doctrines. The pretrib don't believe they will be here for any of the last 7 years, the midtrib believe they will be taken away in the middle of the last 7 years, and the prewrath believe they will be taken away sometime during the last 3 1/2 years. All camps, the pretrib, midtrib, prewrath, and posttrib, all collectively agree that the passages concerning Christians to watch, and thief in the night, is referring to the rapture. Jesus reminds the believers to watch in the book of Revelation. When? Before the last 7 years, in the middle, or sometime in the last 3 1/2 years, or, at the end of the 7 years? Revelation 16:15 Behold, I come as a thief. Blessed is he that watcheth, and keepeth his garments, lest he walk naked, and they see his shame. ---- After the 6th vial/bowl is poured out, verse 12, and just prior to the 7th vial/bowl is poured out, verse 17. Had the rapture/resurrection, happened at any time prior to the 6th vial being poured out, the warning to watch after the 6th vial was poured out would have been unnecessary. Paul wrote this 1 Corinthians 15:52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. ---- When Jesus warned the believers to watch in Revelation chapter 16:15, he was marking this spot , indicating to his believers, this is where the last trump will be blown, the 7th trumpet. For those that hold to the prewrath, examine theses verses, Joshua 10:12, Revelation 8:12, with this verse. Matthew 24:22 And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened. ----- The days will be shortened, but not in the way you think they will be. For anyone concerned about being here for the last 7 years. Revelation 9:4 And it was commanded them that they should not hurt the grass of the earth, neither any green thing, neither any tree; but only those men which have not the seal of God in their foreheads. ----- If you have the seal, the Holy Spirit, God is going to take care of you, like he did with his people Israel in Goshen. Revelation 1:3 Blessed is he that readeth, and they that hear the words of this prophecy, and keep those things which are written therein: for the time is at hand. --- What would be the purpose of reading, hearing, and keeping what is written in Revelation, if we wouldn't be here for it?
Who would be the prisoners that Jesus would be setting free in concentration camps they must not be believers because if they are believers wouldn’t they have been raised to meet Jesus in the air, so are they unbelievers and if they are unbelievers, is he releasing them so he can witness to them
Joel, have you considered the 2 witnesses being called up as the dead in Christ being raised? It sounds to me like they're called up at the last or 7th trumpet 🎺 and God speaks loudly, "Come up here." Then, the vials of God's wrath are poured out. The seals and trumpets are not the wrath of God. Only the vials or cups are specifically called the wrath of God.
I agree with trumpet 7 However, Vial 7 certainly shows the gathering of those watching when the thief comes. I prefer to believe trumpet 7 and vial 7 are the same last day. .
the trumpets and vials make up the 7 last plagues resurrection at trumpet 7 rapture gathering at vial 7 the wrath after each is the same voices lightnings thunders earthquake hail here is quick comparison The 7 Plagues Plague 1) earth 1st trumpet - The first angel sounded, and there followed hail and fire mingled with blood, and they were cast upon the earth 1st vial - And the first went, and poured out his vial upon the earth; Plague 2) sea 2nd trumpet - and as it were a great mountain burning with fire was cast into the sea: 2nd vial - And the second angel poured out his vial upon the sea; Plague 3) waters 3rd trumpet - and it fell upon the third part of the rivers, and upon the fountains of waters; 3rd vial - And the third angel poured out his vial upon the rivers and fountains of waters; Plague 4) sun 4th trumpet - and the third part of the sun was smitten, 4th vial - And the fourth angel poured out his vial upon the sun Plague 5) darkness and pain for the kingdom of the beast 5th trumpet - and the sun and the air were darkened - and their torment was as the torment of a scorpion, when he striketh a man. And they had a king over them, which is the angel of the bottomless pit 5th vial - And the fifth angel poured out his vial upon the seat of the beast; and his kingdom was full of darkness; and they gnawed their tongues for pain, Plague 6) Euphrates 6th trumpet - Loose the four angels which are bound in the great river Euphrates. 6th vial - And the sixth angel poured out his vial upon the great river Euphrates; Plague 7) 7th trumpet - and there were lightnings, and voices, and thunderings, and an earthquake, and great hail. 7th vial - And there were voices, and thunders, and lightnings; and there was a great earthquake, And there fell upon men a great hail out of heaven. seal 7, trumpet 7 and vial 7 = the day of the Lord
There is a scriptural answer for, unless those days be shortened, so that it harmonizes perfectly with all other scripture. Matthew 24:22 And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened. ---- The days will be shortened, but how? Joshua 10:12 Then spake Joshua to the LORD in the day when the LORD delivered up the Amorites before the children of Israel, and he said in the sight of Israel, Sun, stand thou still upon Gibeon; and thou, Moon, in the valley of Ajalon. ---- The purpose of the sun standing still, was so that Joshua had the daylight to defeat the enemy. What is the antichrist going to do? Revelation 12:17 And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ. ---- Except those days be shortened, there should no flesh be saved. Those days must be shortened, or the antichrist will kill all which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ. The days are shortened. Revelation 8:12 And the fourth angel sounded, and the third part of the sun was smitten, and the third part of the moon, and the third part of the stars; so as the third part of them was darkened, and the day shone not for a third part of it, and the night likewise. ---- They are shortened by daylight, not by less days. Joshua had more daylight to get victory over his enemy, the antichrist will have less daylight.
Joel, Joel, Joel! Love you brother but consider what Jesus is talking about in Matt. 24:22. What are “those days”? He tells us in verse 21, “a great tribulation”. What’s going on during this great tribulation. Christians (elect)are being persecuted and killed(Matt. 24:9). To cut short this persecution and killing God can either remove the people being persecuted or the persecutor(antichrist). His word says He is going to do the former. He will remove his elect the same day he starts his wrath(Luke 17:26-30). Israel is not quote unquote saved yet but at least 144000 are being protected. More to say but for now I thank God for what He has shown me thru you Joel.
Enoch The words of the blessing of Enoch, wherewith he blessed the elect and righteous, who will be living in the day of tribulation, when all the wicked and godless are to be removed.
I think youre wrong and pretrib also teaches the group in Rev 7 are martyrs. The believers arent appointed to any wrath whatsoever, whether it be in our mortal bodies or after we die. Persecution yes, wrath no.
How about just doing what His word says, now ,today. All this pre, mid, post stuff is irrelevant. Be about His business, you don't even know if you're going to be sucking air 39 seconds from now.
I disagree with your point that suggests pre-wrath mishandles there being a 3 and a half year period while mantaining that those days are cut short else no flesh will be saved. Your argument is virtually the same as pre tribulationists who wrongfully presuppose that the entire 7 year period is tribulation. They wrongfully conflate the entire 7 year period as tribulation just as you conflated tribulation with 3 and a half years. 3 and a half years and tribulation are not synonymous. The final 3 and a half years consists of 2 elements: tribulation/persecution by the hand of the antichrist against Christians, and Gods wrath against the antichrist and those who follow after him. Pre wrath doesnt claim that the three and a half years is cut short. They claim (what scripture says in Matt 24) that the time of great tribulation is cut short for the sake of the elect. The remaining time in this 3 and a half years consists of Gods wrath. We simply cannot conflate 3 and a half years with the great tribulation because no where in scripture do we see this time stamp. The tribulation is cut short. The remaining time is Gods wrath. No scriptural contradiction.
@@JoelRichardson I don't necessarily think that begins at the midpoint of the 7 years. I don't think there is enough information for us to assume that it begins at the midpoint. There is just as much reason why the 1335 days should start at the end, (which I believe is close to none). I believe that 1335 days begins at the beginning of the 7 year period because it would correspond to the day of Jubilee, when the trumpet will sound. I'm not big on these being literal numbers, but 1335/7 is 190. The day of Jubilee is the 190th day in the Hebrew calendar year. I believe this is significant in showing how the rapture will be related to the day of Jubilee/Day of atonement when the trumpet will sound and we are made new. I don't think I have seen pre-wrathers such as Dr. Alan Kurschner speak of this, so maybe you are right with your critique of the view. But I have certainly heard this within the pre wrath camp and I think it provides good insight on when the 1335 days begins. I just don't think it makes sense for Daniel 12 to set the framework (1260+1290) and then provide another number that will be outside it and assume it must begin at the mid point. I think it makes more sense that this number is set to reflect something within the framework. I'm a fan of your channel, btw. Nothing I say is to be dogmatic or uber critical. I appreciate your thoughtfulness on these matters.
@@bradsmalley7675 Its very specific. From the abomination of desolation, there will be 1290 days. Blessed are those who attain to the 1335 days. I do not see a way to get around this. Time will tell. Blessings.
Joel, Lee Brainard ('soothkeep') very recently (posting Apr 26, 2024) came out with a very direct attack on the pre-wrath position. Since I know he has repeatedly declined to debate you, I very much would like to see you review and respond to it, because frankly, his disingenuous and deliberate avoidance of your points on this topic really irritates me.
@@JoelRichardson I think it would be valuable if you called him out again directly point-for-point where he is being disingenuous in this latest output.
The days of vengeance have been shortened to five months. This is documented in Matt 24:22, Rev 9:5 & 9:10, and a few other places, such as the days of Noah. 150 days. ❤❤❤DOVE POINT BIBLE STUDY ❤❤❤ 🪓😡👍💯💯💯
Thank you for specially clarifying the wedding banquet for all peoples. Your continued study has confirmed so much!! It saddens me so many others are dogmatic about pre trib rapture. Bless you for letting scripture speak according to itself. Stay safe Joel. From Ohio.
Joel, you are a great gift to the Body of Jesus. A generation not yet born will thank God for you 🙌
God won't let us "miss" it. Whenever the rapture is we will be in it.
The most important issue is BE SAVED🎉 When Jesus returns is His business, we are to be Strong and stay Faithful❤🎉
This teaching was great; I totally agree,keep teaching the truth! Thank you Joel
I love the way you handle discussing the rapture, which is such a divisive topic for so many Christians unfortunately. I used to believe in pre-trib until I really dug in to scripture and asked The Lord to remove anything from my mind that was false and learned from man instead of the Word. It was then like I was reading all those passages the pre-tribbers use for the very first time, and the theory was completely proved wrong. We will go through tribulation, period... that's what the Bible says. I will never forget that day when my eyes were opened, what a blessing to have The Holy Spirit teach & give us clarity! Everybody please turn away from man-made false doctrines... The truth is in the Bible! Believing you're gonna get swooped out of here before the tribulation is a lie from the Satan that will leave many Christians unprepared for what's to come, and maybe even cause them to lose their faith. Escapism is NOT the way... JESUS IS!
Rev 3:10
@@vantoro4300 Rev 2:10
I've literally read the same thing but reversed before. People have prayed that every false teaching of eschatology be removed from their mind, and then they land on a pretrib belief and then ascribe it to the Holy Spirit teaching them. What you said holds no weight other than the divisiveness of calling pretrib a manmade belief. We all should at least have the humility to say we "may" still be wrong.
Thank you so much for doing these teachings.
All i can say is be prepared! Stay strong brothers and sisters for our redemption draws near! I believe we are here till the End. But if it doesn't happen that way it doesn't matter because I'm Saved and Ready either way.
Totally agree with you…it’s not a salvation issue and takes away valuable time to really learn and develop yourself in Gods word…it’s apples and oranges…God Bless you and all of us 🙏🏻💙🙏🏻
There is a time and season for every purpose under heaven. No time truly spent with God or in His word is wasted time. This topic is just part of that. We are to walk out our salvation changing to Christ likeness (which btw happens to contrast/clash with the world in many ways) and enduring til the end, whenever it be. On that agreed.
great work Joel
1 Thessalonians 5:8-9
But since we are of the day, let us be sober, having PUT ON the breastplate of faith and love, and as a helmet, the hope of salvation. For God has not destined us for wrath, but for obtaining salvation through our Adonai Yeshua.
The helmet and breastplate protect us from wrath.
Yeshua's name means
" Salvation "
When Trudumb bans cash, I would also consider becoming self sufficient because we won't be buying or selling without the mark of the beast.
Hello Joel,
Thank you very much for these and other lessons.
Regarding the bowls, in Deut. 28 Moses describes the consequences of not keeping the covenant, and 28:27-29 describes some of the plagues of Egypt that would come upon them. Those mentioned here align perfectly with the first and fifth bowls in Revelation. And the fact that many of the bowls are Exodus themed points to Moses being one of the two witnesses (with Elijah). These bowls fit better in the Great Tribulation than afterwards.
thank you for this teaching
We will all find out
Maranatha ❤️🙏
Main thing is that we have to prepare, be ready and stay faithful
Don’t know about other pre-trib rapture teachers but have never heard Jan Markel say we’d “fall away” if we didn’t believe it???
Dear Rongentry
Listen a little longer. Better yet just ask her. She does in fact think that.
She definitely implies it at very least, and I could point you to a dozen others here on YT who are literally fire-and-brimstone teachers that not accepting pre-trib apparently means you are not saved and won't be raptured at all. And that's the attitude Joel is warning about, and I agree with him.
Jesus is clear in Mathew 24 that there is no pre-trib rapture and that there will be a great falling away from the faith before He returns.
Pre-trib Rapture is a false "satanic" teaching that began in 1830 when a Scottish girl claimed she had a ... "vision."
Believes are to follow God ... not ... Man.
She hasn't said that.
Markell says that you are Satanically deceived if you don’t hold a pretrib view.
Good pastoral advice. I find myself in the same post-trib position but with some nuance differences. I have commented on these before. I think the 7 seals, trumpets, thunders and bowls are sequential. With you, I see the7th trumpet as the time of Christ`s return. You resolve the vision of the saints before the throne between the 6th and 7th seal as disembodied martyrs out of the great tribulation. I see the vision as a forward looking preview of what was about to happen when the trumpets sounded. Remember the 4 winds of judgement was delayed until the sealing of the bond servants. The logical outcome of the sealing is pictured and not the timing between the 6th and 7th seal. The trumpets are precursors announcing the coming Day of the Lord`s wrath. You correctly point out that God`s wrath is already upon evil doers. But the wrath that is to come, from which we are not appointed too, is the final end point of the eschatological Day of the Lord when Christ returns. In your understanding you cannot have the saints raptured to heaven for they meet the Lord in the clouds and return with him for the wedding feast on earth. Your teaching has been helpful for me to see its validity. However I have tweaked the metaphor. When the 7th trumpet sounds, the heavens are split open for all to see the sign of his coming and the earthlings to fear and see the throne and coming wrath of God and the Lamb. The saints ascend to the Son of Man seated on his throne in the clouds of heaven. Then they as the bride descend with Christ on his white horse to earth for the marriage supper of God. The saints do make it to the throne of God but only for a brief time before their descent with Christ. Your metaphor still works with only one gathering to the clouds of heaven to usher the bridegroom in his descent to earth for the marriage supper. I hope this nuance understanding can bridge some of the gaps between differing views.
My fellow truth-seekers will take the time to read this comment. Whoever the Spirit leads will read.
There is no pretribulation rapture. Pretribulation is a man-made doctrine, and is the devil's gospel.
Tribulation is the devil's governing oppression over all those in the world who follow Christ. We are in the world, but not of the world.
John 16:33,KJV "These things I have spoken unto you, that in me(Christ) ye might have peace. In the world ye shall *have tribulation*: but be of good cheer; I have overcome the world."
Tribulation means: distress or suffering resulting from *oppression* or persecution, a trying experience, tribulation means trial.*
Acts 14:22 KJV
"Confirming the souls of the disciples, and exhorting them to continue in the faith, and that we must through *much tribulation* enter into the kingdom of God."
Then said Jesus unto his disciples, "*If any man will come after me, let him *DENY HIMSELF, and TAKE UP HIS CROSS,* and follow me. For whosoever will save his life shall lose it: and whosoever will lose his life for my sake shall find it.*" Matthew 16:24-26 KJV
*Tribulation started in Genesis when Adam forfeited his governance over the world, when he obeyed satan instead of God. Satan instead of man(Adam) has been the governing power over the world's ruling powers ever since. (Read Genesis, KJV).
Satan rules in the kingdoms of this World.
The kingdoms of the world( the empires) are referred to as beasts, because they are kingdoms without the true God( They are antichrists ). Satan is the one who gives the beasts their power. Read the Book of Daniel. Read Revelation to understand the end as it relates to the beginning in Genesis.
Matthew 4:8, KJV "Again, the devil taketh him up into an exceeding high mountain, and sheweth him all the kingdoms of the world, and the glory of them; [9] And saith unto him, All these things will I give thee, if thou wilt fall down and worship me."
Luke 4:5-8, KJV. "And the devil, taking him up into an high mountain, shewed unto him all the kingdoms of the world in a moment of time. And the devil said unto him, All this *power* will I give thee, and the glory of them: for that is delivered unto me; and to whomsoever I will I give it. If thou therefore wilt worship me, all shall be thine. And Jesus answered and said unto him, Get thee behind me, Satan: for it is written, Thou shalt worship the Lord thy God, and him only shalt thou serve.
Do you see? The devil lies: the power was not given to him freely by God.
God freely gave Adam(man) dominion over the earth, but Adam through his disobedience losses it to satan, when he *chose* to put faith in the devil rather than God.
*Satan( previously known as Lucifer) will continue to rule, though his total ruling power has been forfeited by the sacrificial blood of Christ, and the resurrection of Christ. Satan no longer has power over all souls unless you willingly give satan your soul.
Satan and his followers are hellbound. Satan no longer has the key over hell, death and the grave. He cannot hold captive of the souls that belong to Christ.
Christ's Sacrificial Blood forfeited all of satan's powers obtained through his deception of man & woman in the Garden of Eden.
Revelation 1:17-18, King James Version(KJV)
"And when I saw him, I fell at his feet as dead. And he laid his right hand upon me, saying unto me, Fear not; I am the first and the last: I am he that liveth, and was dead; and, behold, I am alive for evermore, Amen; and have the keys of hell and of death."
Revelation 3:7, KJV "To the angel of the church in Philadelphia write: These are the words of the One who is holy and true, who holds the key of David. What He opens no one can shut, and what He shuts no one can open."
On The Day of Christ: All who are Christ's and are dead will be resurrected, and those in Christ who are still alive until Christ returns will be transformed from mortality to immortality, and rise to the Spiritual( incorruptible bodies)of eternal life and peace, free from suffering, war, and pain. There are no tears, and no need for money in Christ's coming Kingdom, no rich vs poor, no pale skin vs dark skin, no upper-class vs lower-class, no aristocrats vs. peasants, etc. There are no narcissists in Christ's Kingdom. For we are all one in Christ Jesus, and there is no evil, or sin there.
Amen!!!
The return of Christ: The Day of The Lord, is not a quiet rapture event.
*Pretribulation? or After Tribulation?
Let God answer the question:*
It is written in Matthew 24: 29 -31, KJV.*
"*Immediately AFTER THE TRIBULATION of those days* *shall the SUN BE DARKENED, and the MOON SHALL NOT GIVE HER LIGHT, and the STARS SHALL FALL FROM HEAVEN, and the POWERS OF THE HEAVENS SHALL BE SHAKEN:* *And THEN SHALL APPEAR THE SIGN OF THE SON OF MAN IN HEAVEN: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and THEY SHALL SEE THE SON OF MAN COMING IN THE CLOUDS OF HEAVEN WITH POWER AND GREAT GLORY.*
*"And He shall send His angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall GATHER TOGETHER HIS ELECT FROM THE FOUR WINDS, FROM ONE END OF HEAVEN TO THE OTHER.*"
The Rapture:
*"And He shall send His angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall GATHER TOGETHER HIS ELECT FROM THE FOUR WINDS, FROM ONE END OF HEAVEN TO THE OTHER.*"
1 Thessalonians 4:17 King James Version
"*Then we which are ALIVE and REMAIN shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.*"
Christ has the ultimate power over all.
Sin and satan's worldly kingdoms are coming to an end.
The new Earth which is called The New Jerusalem will descend from Heaven, and only the meek( All those who belong to Christ) will inherit this Earth. Christ shall be our King, and we shall be His people forever. Christ's Kingdom and the His inheritance of the throne of David will be from everlasting to everlasting. Then you will see true Peace, with the The Prince of Peace who is Christ Jesus.
Regarding the days being cut short. I believe Jesus is referring to the 4th trumpet, where the days and night will be shorter. Revelation 8:12b “the day would not shine for a third of it, and the night in the same way.”
I've been saying, you're welcome to believe in the pre-trib rapture, as long as you don't lose your faith when the tribulation starts and you realize you're in the middle of it.
The days being cut short, I see them as they’ve already been cut short. The timeline will still be as it is written. As it is written, those are the shortened days.
@Joel Love your ministry and the word you bring! It's a blessing to see the truth being preached in the times we live in now! Question for you. Are the rapture at the 7th trumpet and the 2nd Coming of Jesus, one and the same? Thanks Brother 🛐🕎🔯🌍
I believe that is the hybrid prewrath-post-trib view Joel was speaking of. Prewrath would say between 6th and 7 seals, while post-trib says at very end of Daniel’s 7 years. So this hybrid from the way I see it has some seals trumpets and bowls overlap, with Jesus coming to rapture when the 7th seal, and trumpet(last) end with maybe 30 or 40 days of bowl judgments just after that. The saved and Jesus marching to Zion and defeating enemies during bowl judgments in our glorified bodies. The bowl judgments can’t harm a glorified body.
I was concerned with so much pre trip teaching that if it didn't happen that way that it would cause people to be discouraged and walk away. I do believe there's scriptures that people are not talking about, such as Ephesians 4:10:13. And I agree with you. It's not something that we're supposed to argue about. In fact, we're supposed to be doing what Jesus said and loving on each other, Our brothers and sisters in Christ and loving others and bringing them to Christ.
Right on. help others prepare for the mark of the beast when it comes. There will be no buying or selling in this time, although hopefully it is short (perhaps 3.5yrs or so?). Remember Matt 24:43 - But know this, that if the goodman of the house had known in what watch the thief would come, he would have watched, and would not have suffered his house to be broken up. If/when cash is banned, prepare yourself and others for life without money.
My fellow truth-seekers will take the time to read this comment. Whoever the Spirit leads will read.
There is no pretribulation rapture. Pretribulation is a man-made doctrine, and is the devil's gospel.
Tribulation is the devil's governing oppression over all those in the world who follow Christ. We are in the world, but not of the world.
John 16:33,KJV "These things I have spoken unto you, that in me(Christ) ye might have peace. In the world ye shall *have tribulation*: but be of good cheer; I have overcome the world."
Tribulation means: distress or suffering resulting from *oppression* or persecution, a trying experience, tribulation means trial.*
Acts 14:22 KJV
"Confirming the souls of the disciples, and exhorting them to continue in the faith, and that we must through *much tribulation* enter into the kingdom of God."
Then said Jesus unto his disciples, "*If any man will come after me, let him *DENY HIMSELF, and TAKE UP HIS CROSS,* and follow me. For whosoever will save his life shall lose it: and whosoever will lose his life for my sake shall find it.*" Matthew 16:24-26 KJV
*Tribulation started in Genesis when Adam forfeited his governance over the world, when he obeyed satan instead of God. Satan instead of man(Adam) has been the governing power over the world's ruling powers ever since. (Read Genesis, KJV).
Satan rules in the kingdoms of this World.
The kingdoms of the world( the empires) are referred to as beasts, because they are kingdoms without the true God( They are antichrists ). Satan is the one who gives the beasts their power. Read the Book of Daniel. Read Revelation to understand the end as it relates to the beginning in Genesis.
Matthew 4:8, KJV "Again, the devil taketh him up into an exceeding high mountain, and sheweth him all the kingdoms of the world, and the glory of them; [9] And saith unto him, All these things will I give thee, if thou wilt fall down and worship me."
Luke 4:5-8, KJV. "And the devil, taking him up into an high mountain, shewed unto him all the kingdoms of the world in a moment of time. And the devil said unto him, All this *power* will I give thee, and the glory of them: for that is delivered unto me; and to whomsoever I will I give it. If thou therefore wilt worship me, all shall be thine. And Jesus answered and said unto him, Get thee behind me, Satan: for it is written, Thou shalt worship the Lord thy God, and him only shalt thou serve.
Do you see? The devil lies: the power was not given to him freely by God.
God freely gave Adam(man) dominion over the earth, but Adam through his disobedience losses it to satan, when he *chose* to put faith in the devil rather than God.
*Satan( previously known as Lucifer) will continue to rule, though his total ruling power has been forfeited by the sacrificial blood of Christ, and the resurrection of Christ. Satan no longer has power over all souls unless you willingly give satan your soul.
Satan and his followers are hellbound. Satan no longer has the key over hell, death and the grave. He cannot hold captive of the souls that belong to Christ.
Christ's Sacrificial Blood forfeited all of satan's powers obtained through his deception of man & woman in the Garden of Eden.
Revelation 1:17-18, King James Version(KJV)
"And when I saw him, I fell at his feet as dead. And he laid his right hand upon me, saying unto me, Fear not; I am the first and the last: I am he that liveth, and was dead; and, behold, I am alive for evermore, Amen; and have the keys of hell and of death."
Revelation 3:7, KJV "To the angel of the church in Philadelphia write: These are the words of the One who is holy and true, who holds the key of David. What He opens no one can shut, and what He shuts no one can open."
On The Day of Christ: All who are Christ's and are dead will be resurrected, and those in Christ who are still alive until Christ returns will be transformed from mortality to immortality, and rise to the Spiritual( incorruptible bodies)of eternal life and peace, free from suffering, war, and pain. There are no tears, and no need for money in Christ's coming Kingdom, no rich vs poor, no pale skin vs dark skin, no upper-class vs lower-class, no aristocrats vs. peasants, etc. There are no narcissists in Christ's Kingdom. For we are all one in Christ Jesus, and there is no evil, or sin there.
Amen!!!
The return of Christ: The Day of The Lord, is not a quiet rapture event.
*Pretribulation? or After Tribulation?
Let God answer the question:*
It is written in Matthew 24: 29 -31, KJV.*
"*Immediately AFTER THE TRIBULATION of those days* *shall the SUN BE DARKENED, and the MOON SHALL NOT GIVE HER LIGHT, and the STARS SHALL FALL FROM HEAVEN, and the POWERS OF THE HEAVENS SHALL BE SHAKEN:* *And THEN SHALL APPEAR THE SIGN OF THE SON OF MAN IN HEAVEN: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and THEY SHALL SEE THE SON OF MAN COMING IN THE CLOUDS OF HEAVEN WITH POWER AND GREAT GLORY.*
*"And He shall send His angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall GATHER TOGETHER HIS ELECT FROM THE FOUR WINDS, FROM ONE END OF HEAVEN TO THE OTHER.*"
The Rapture:
*"And He shall send His angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall GATHER TOGETHER HIS ELECT FROM THE FOUR WINDS, FROM ONE END OF HEAVEN TO THE OTHER.*"
1 Thessalonians 4:17 King James Version
"*Then we which are ALIVE and REMAIN shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.*"
Christ has the ultimate power over all.
Sin and satan's worldly kingdoms are coming to an end.
The new Earth which is called The New Jerusalem will descend from Heaven, and only the meek( All those who belong to Christ) will inherit this Earth. Christ shall be our King, and we shall be His people forever. Christ's Kingdom and the His inheritance of the throne of David will be from everlasting to everlasting. Then you will see true Peace, with the The Prince of Peace who is Christ Jesus.
They called to the mountains and the rocks, "Fall on us and hide us from the face of him who sits on the throne and from the wrath of the Lamb! For the great day of their wrath has come, and who can stand?" Rev 6:16-17. So this proves that the wrath of God occurs on a single day (not over many days); it's the very day that Jesus returns.
Seven vials and seven plagues gonna take some time, Mystery Babylon being destroyed however is one day and hour. The wrath of God is the cup of the wine of his fierceness of Gods wrath, (not Christ or Satans wrath) where great hail out of heaven the weight of a talent falls on the evil ones. Rev.12:11-17 is Satans wrath which could be a life time to many and a month to some, or an hour of temptation.
@@ginj5375
How could we possibly know it was the wrath of the Lamb that is happening (and not just natural disasters) unless the Lamb shows up to order it? Otherwise, it may all just seem to be a series of unfortunate events.
@@mikejurney9102 Well he does chastise those that are His. But scripture explains which is of Satan and which is of God.
I enjoy watching all your videos. That was a great point about Gods wrath according Delton Romans 1, also Jesus not drinking the wine until the marriage supper of the lamb.
Matthew 24:29-31*** Last or 7th Trump is clear,after or post tribulation. Sorry pretibers we must strengthen our faith to endure❤
Sadly, when future events to not unfold as charted by the dispensationalists, the faith of many will be catastrophically shipwrecked. ✔️
THE MESSAGE FOR AMERICA September, 1984 Dimitru Duduman Late one night, I could not sleep, The children were sleeping on the luggage. My wife and daughter were crying, I went outside and walked around. I didn't want them to see me cry. I walked around the building, crying and saying, "God! Why did you punish me? Why did you bring me into this country? I can't understand anybody. If I try to ask anybody anything, all I hear is, "I don't know." I stopped in front of the apartment and sat on a large rock. Suddenly a bright light came toward me. I jumped to my feet because it looked as if a car was coming directly at me, attempting to run me down! I thought the Romanian Secret Police had tracked me to America, and now they were trying to kill me. But it wasn't a car at all. As the light approached, it surrounded me. From the light I heard the same voice that I had heard so many times in prison. He said "Dumitru, why are you so despaired?" I said, "Why did you punish me? Why did you bring me to this country? I have nowhere to lay my head down. I can't understand anybody." He said, "Dumitru, didn't I tell you I am here with you, also? I brought you to this country because this country will burn." I said, 'then why did you bring me here to burn? Why didn't you let me die in my own country? You should have let me die in jail in Romania! He said, "Dumitru, have patience so I can tell you. Get on this." I got on something next to him. I don't know what it was. I also know that I was not asleep. It was not a dream. It was not a vision. I was awake just as I am now. He showed me all of California and said, "This is Sodom and Gomorrah! All of this, in one day it will burn! It's sin has reached the Holy One." Then he took me to Las Vegas. "This is Sodom and Gomorrah. In one day it will burn." Then he showed me the state of New York. "Do you know what this is?" he asked. I said, "No." He said "This is New York. This is Sodom and Gomorrah! In one day it will burn." Then he showed me all of Florida, "This is Florida." he said. "This is Sodom and Gomorrah! In one day it will burn." Then he took me back home to the rock where we had begun. "IN ONE DAY IT WILL BURN! All of this I have shown you" - I said, "How will it burn?" He said, "Remember what I am telling you, because you will go on television, on the radio and in churches. You must yell with a loud voice. Do not be afraid, because I will be with you." I said, "How will I be able to go? Who knows me here in America? I don't know anybody here." He said, "Don't worry yourself. I will go before you. I will do a lot of healing in the American churches and I will open the doors for you. But do not say anything else besides what I tell you. This country will burn!" I said, "What will you do with the church?" He said, "I want to save the church, but the churches have forsaken me." I said, "How did they forsake you?" He said, "The people praise themselves. The honor that the people are supposed to give Jesus Christ, they take upon themselves. In the churches there are divorces. There is adultery in the churches. There are homosexuals in the churches. There is abortion in the churches and all other sins that are possible. Because of all the sin, I have left some of the churches. You must yell in a loud voice that they must put an end to their sinning. They must turn toward the Lord. The Lord never gets tired of forgiving. They must draw close to the Lord, and live a clean life. If they have sinned until now, they must put an end to it, and start a new life as the Bible tells them to live." I said, "How will America burn?" America is the most powerful country in this world. Why did you bring us here to burn? Why didn't you at least let us die where ALL the Dudumans have died?" He said, "Remember this, Dumitru. The Russian spies have discovered where the nuclear warehouses are in America. When the Americans will think that it is peace and safety - from the middle of the country, some of the people will start fighting against the government. The government will be busy with internal problems. Then from the ocean, from Cuba, Nicaragua, Mexico,,.." (He told me two other countries, but I didn't remember what they were.) "...they will bomb the nuclear warehouses. When they explode, America will burn!" "What will you do with the Church of the Lord? How will you save the ones that will turn toward you?" I asked. He said, "Tell them this: how I saved the three young ones from the furnace of fire, and how I saved Daniel in the lions den, is the same way I will save them." The angel of the Lord also told me, "I have blessed this country because of the Jewish people who are in this country. I have seven million Jews in this country, but they do not want to recognize the Lord. They didn't want to thank God for the blessing they received in this country. Israel doesn't want to recognize Jesus Christ. They put their faith in the Jewish people in America. But, when America burns, the Lord will raise China, Japan, and other nations to go against the Russians. They will beat the Russians and push them all the way to the gates of Paris. Over there they will make a treaty, and appoint the Russians as their leaders. They will then unite against Israel. When Israel realizes she does not have the strength of America behind her, she will be frightened. That's when she will turn to the Messiah for deliverance. That's when the Messiah will come. Then, the church will meet Jesus in the air, and he will bring them back with Him to the Mount of Olives. At that time, the battle of Armageddon will be fought." When I heard all of this I said, "if you are truly the angel of the Lord, and everything you have told me is true, then all you have said must be written in the Bible." He said, "Tell everyone to read from Jeremiah 51:8-15, Revelation chapter 18, and Zechariah chapter 14, where Christ fights against those who possess the earth. After His victory," the angel said, "there will be one flock and one Shepherd. There will be no need for light. The Lamb of God will be the Light. There will be no sickness, no tears, and no deaths. There will only be eternal joy and God will be the ruler. There will be only one language. Only one song. And no need for a translator! ... And, Dumitru," he continued, "a word of warning. If you keep anything from the American people that you are told, I will punish you severely." "How will I know that this is for real -that it will really happen?" I asked. "As a sign that I have spoken to you, tomorrow before you wake, I will send someone to bring you a bed, and at noon I will send you a car and a bucket of honey. After which I will send someone to pay your rent." The next day someone brought Dumitru a bed, and at noon a car arrived with the bucket of honey. His rent was also paid, as God had promised him. (See chapter 10, "THROUGH THE FIRE WITHOUT BURNING.") Then the angel left. Excepted from: Dreams and Visions From God
There's a lot of people trying to figure things out these days. Whether it's what year is the last yr before Jesus returns or what the powers that be are doing behind close doors. To me the more we try to figure out, the more we take away from just having faith that the Lord's word will has told us all we need to know and that as long as we have true faith in him, then we'll be just fine in the end whenever that is. Because If you know all the answers, then what's the point of faith? To me, what God has been trying to get us to understand from the very beginning of the Bible all the way to the end is to just have faith in Him.
@@robertvann7349 Who says he doesn't know? When he set aside his power and glory, he set aside certain knowledge so that he could live a perfect life relying on Holy Spirit. He is now fully glorified, and he knows the day and Hour.
If you don't believe for healing you can't receive healing, or any other promise of God for that matter. God will never violate your will.
Where does the Bible ever say that He will not violate anyone's will?
God is sovereign, we're not. Read Psalm 115:3. Romans 9: 18-21.
Joel, what do you think about when the trumpet sounds he calls the Saints to dine at the wedding feast, just as he calls all the fowls of the air to FEAST ON THE FLESH OF HIS ENEMIES AND KINGS. LMK What you think? Bless you thank you for your teachings. Shalom.
Both...the wrath is after the trib.
Beloved, we are not appointed to God’s wrath because Jesus bore all of our sinful punishment on the cross. Who will open the seals judgements which will begin the Tribulation?-Jesus. Who will command the heavenly angels to blow the trumpets and pour out the vials?-Lord Jesus. Thus, the entire Tribulation is God’s wrath, and just as we will escape eternal hell, we will escape the entire Tribulation. Amen.
Also, notice the wording in Revelation 5:9:
“And they sung a new song, saying, Thou art worthy to take the book, and to open the seals thereof: for thou wast slain, and hast redeemed us to God by thy blood out of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation.”
That’s the Church in Heaven, worshipping our Lord Jesus Christ BEFORE the Tribulation commences.
then why is WRATH (ORGE) found ....
1) AFTER the signs in the sun, moon and stars which Jesus told us COMES IMMEDIATELY AFTER the tribulation
Rev. 6
2) After trumpet 7 which is the resurrrection trumpet AT THE LAST DAY
Rev. 11
3) After the Son of man is seen on a cloud
Rev. 14
4) After vial 7 which is tthe rapture at the coming of the thief
Rev. 16
5) After His coming on a white horse for the marraige supper
Rev. 19
lack of knowledge DESTROYS God's people
.
your words --- > That’s the Church in Heaven, worshipping our Lord Jesus Christ BEFORE the Tribulation commences.
ummm, so there are only 24 raptured in the pre tribulation rapture?
D E L U S I O N A L
.
Jesus bore eternal wrath, But the wrath of God is already being poured out right now. Roman 1:18.
According to the biblical example and foreshadowing of the wrath of God we have in the story of Noah and Lot, wrath is immediately, if not, simultaneously at the moment of the removal of the righteous. In both events, as God was saving Lot and Noah's families, wrath was being dispensed simultaneously.
At the resurrection of the just, the same is true. Once those that are alive and remain are resurrected, immediately the 1st vial of wrath is poured out along with other bowls sequentially (7 bowls to be exact). The Bible gives no framework of duration of God's wrath, only that it occurs immediately after the resurrection, during the day of the Lord.
God clearly gave His 7 x 1000 year salvation Plan from the very beginning including telling us Jesus (Son of God) will rule "sinful" Mankind for 1000 years.
The 2nd Coming is in the year 6000 ... and the end of time & the Universe is in the year 7000.
God always knew .. it would take 7000 years ... to save the Children of God (Son) from the Children of Man (Adam).
And time, laws of Nature, decay & death ... began in the Universe only ... when Adam & Eve sinned 5994 years ago.
God is only going to destroy the Universe ... after the 7000 years ... He gave to Mankind to procreate.
And Jesus (Son of God) will rule this sinful Mankind ... for 1000 years ... with only the 144 000 Chosen Jews.
You do not know the day or hour ... you die .... and your soul leaves the Universe & time and goes straight to Judgement day.
Inside the Universe ... Judgement Day is in the future ( 7000 AM)
Outside of the Universe ... all .... have been judged and either sent to Heaven to be with Jesus forever or sent to Hell to die after 3 "earth" days
This is why Jesus had to die on the cross ... then spend 3 days in Hell. Hell will destroy a sinful soul ... after 3 "earth" days. But Jesus did not sin in Hell ... and therefore after 3 days ... he fulfilled being the sin sacrifice ... and was resurrected by God (Father & Spirit). Spent 40 days with believers ... then was RAPTURED to Heaven with a new body ... to greet the saved Thief who died with Him on the cross 43 days ago for those alive on Earth. Jesus promised this Thief that they will both be in Heaven ... this day.
The Prophets did not understand time vs timelessness .. in the visions of the 2nd coming & the end of the Universe .. & ... God is only interested in winning Spiritual War ... not a silly war with tanks & guns on Earth.
God's Wrath ... is .. the flood and ... the end of the Universe which we have always know to be in the year 7000. It is only the year 5994.
Between The 6th 7th seals is the beginning of the trumpets in my understanding of revelation.
Once again, thank you Joel on your clear teaching on this matter. I just refer everyone to your teachings to get clarity. I realy realy appreciate the fact that you debunk the lies that early apostles held to pre-trib beliefs. There is such a blind, even hostile, belief with pre-tribbers that I dont understand. It is a very aggressive spirit that literally tells you that you are going to "stay behind" if you dont believe pre-trib. Why would that be as it VERY CLEARLY is NOT a salvation issue. If we are wrong, good news for us, but will pre-tribbers be ready to endure when their hope slowly gets dashed when things get tough? I would rather have them prepared for the worst, hoping for the best so to speak. But yes, we appreciate your good solid word and historical fact-based teachings. Many blessings to you and your family, praying for your wife still. Yolande, saying Shalom to everyone from PE, South Africa.
Pre-trib.
I too am looking for any minute to be raptured out, and I will continue to do so because of being instructed to watch and wait by scripture.
Every moment that passes I am that much closer, and I grow more focused on my Savior and the word.
In Psalm 37:25, "the righteous have never been forsaken" so I go with that and the fact that he is more than trustworthy.
I know my own righteousness is as filthy rags, so I will not pretend that I could ever have anything better to offer God except the offering he prepared for me and that is the "precious Lamb slain" that paid the debt I owed that I could not pay.
So if my wait is 5 minutes, 5 hours, 5 days, 5 weeks, 5 months, 5 years or 5 decades I do not care, I have my eye on the prize, and that is the marriage supper of the Lamb in the place he has prepared for me.
Hebrews 9:28 to a group (prolly small) of those "watching for his appearance" he will appear the second time for the purpose of salvation.
Only those people will see him at this particular event. I plan to be one of them.
The Wrath of The Lamb AND The Wrath of God are the whole seven years
then why is WRATH (ORGE) found ....
1) AFTER the signs in the sun, moon and stars which Jesus told us COMES IMMEDIATELY AFTER the tribulation
Rev. 6
2) After trumpet 7 which is the resurrrection trumpet AT THE LAST DAY
Rev. 11
3) After the Son of man is seen on a cloud
Rev. 14
4) After vial 7 which is tthe rapture at the coming of the thief
Rev. 16
5) After His coming on a white horse for the marraige supper
Rev. 19
lack of knowledge DESTROYS God's people
.
Show me any verse which says this.
Joel, arrebatamento em caráter emergencial, para subir e descer? Para que serve o arrebatamento? Qual a finalidade? Se os mortos já estão em Cristo.
1Th 1:10 can’t be reduced, watered down, to Gods everyday wrath. It has the definite article in front of it. It’s a specific wrath. Also, it’s wrath that hasn’t come yet. “Who delivers us from the wrath to come.”
Joel, I have only watched to the 5:30 mark at this point. I deeply agree with much you have said so far. I think we need to have a discussion about the "2nd coming". I will listen all the way through, but I perceive that you (as many others) are trying to view the "2nd coming" as a single, point-in-time event. So, can you please describe His 1st coming? Was it a single, point-in-time event? I think the answer is, "No". So why would you expect His 2nd coming to be any different? Just something to think about. I will probably post an additional reply, once I am done.
Your words --- > So, can you please describe His 1st coming? Was it a single, point-in-time event? I think the answer is, "No". So why would you expect His 2nd coming to be any different? Just something to think about. I will probably post an additional reply, once I am done.
UMM, HOW MANY POINTS IN TIME DID JESUS COME, BORN IN A MANGER?
???
The great trib being cut short is the great trib against the saints. The 3 1/2 years and the 1260 and 1335 days are in a different context.
In Daniel when he says they will be persecuted for 3 1/2 years he did not know that the great trib was going to be cut short, plus when he says the saints, in the context who are these people? they're not christians because the gentiles coming into the faith was a mystery.
Very true.
The gentiles coming to faith was promised back in Genesis. That promise is repeated in the OT.
I’m now a post tribber; however, I only struggle with the fact about people marrying, giving in marriage, etc. how can that be during that horrific timeframe of the trib.
The same reason the people around Noah were partying, going about their business, and mocking Noah. Those that get marked will be loving life right up until that dreadful day.
In Noah's day people were living life doing normal things with no idea destruction was at the door. Read for yourself the words of Jesus in Matthew 24:37-39.
As it was in the days of Noah, so it will be at the coming of the Son of Man. For in the days before the flood, people were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, up to the day Noah entered the ark; and they knew nothing about what would happen until the flood came and took them all away. That is how it will be at the coming of the Son of Man."
Because they're unaware of the coming wrath. They're not subject to the AC or Satan trying to kill them or persecute them. Only the saints or the church is aware of this and being persecuted and killed
Follow & obey God ( Bible) not Man ( interpretation of the Bible).
There is no time in Heaven & Hell. Time, laws of Nature, decay & death ... only exist in the Universe ... and began when Adam & Eve sinned.
You do not know the day or hour ... you die ... and your soul leaves the Universe with time ... and goes straight to Judgment Day ... to either join Jesus in Heaven forever or be sent to Hell to perish after 3 ... earth ... days.
The punishment for sin by Man ... is death (body & soul).
You sin, you must die (body or Earth, soul in Hell).
And all will sin so all must die.
But all God asks of sinful Man ... is to follow & obey God (Father, Son & Spirit) ... not ... Man. For God always knew & told us from the very beginning that it would take 7 x 1000 years of procreation ....to save the Children of God (Son) from the Children of Man(Adam). And the last 1000 of 7000 years .... God (Son) will rule ... sinful Man.
Jesus returns in the year 6000 (2030) with the 144 000 to rule the Earth for 1000 years. At the 2nd Coming ... the Believers alive on Earth .. are raptured to Heaven ... to be with Jesus forever ever.
Again. There is no time in Heave or Hell. Time only exist in the Universe with the living. And God is only interested in "Spiritual" warfare not actual war with tanks & guns on Earth. The Prophets did not understand time vs timelessness what is spiritual or actual warfare.
You do not know the day or hour ... you die.
Rapture for a Believer ... is when he/she ... dies or is alive in the year 6000 or 7 000. Man has 7 000 years to procreate God's Children ... not 6000 years. As the year 6000 is 2030. Only Jesus & the 144 000 Chosen male Jews ... will rule Mankind for 1000 years. The new believers over the 1000 year reign ... will live & die as normal human beings .. while Jesus is ruling the world from Jerusalem. And the Believers alive in the year 7000 will witness Satan gathering the Armies of the world against Jesus ... and finally God declares Judgement day ... and they are rapture to Heaven to be with their brothers & sisters ... who had died over the past 7 000 years.
See. This is what the Prophets did not understand time vs timelessness. Satan is currently on Earth with us living ... but ... is also in Hell being punished forever. Inside the Universe Judgement day is in the future. Outside of the Universe ... all have been judged and sent to Heaven or Hell.
Marrying and giving into marriage, in other words living life as usual: This refers to the wicked and ungodly generation. They are not expecting the return of Christ. To them, Christ will come as a thief in the night, in otherwords suddenly. Suddenly destruction falls like in the Days of Noah, and Lot.
How evil was the world then, that no mention of any children of that wicked generation on the Ark?
My fellow truth-seekers will take the time to read this comment. Whoever the Spirit leads will read.
There is no pretribulation rapture. Pretribulation is a man-made doctrine, and is the devil's gospel.
Tribulation is the devil's governing oppression over all those in the world who follow Christ. We are in the world, but not of the world.
John 16:33,KJV "These things I have spoken unto you, that in me(Christ) ye might have peace. In the world ye shall *have tribulation*: but be of good cheer; I have overcome the world."
Tribulation means: distress or suffering resulting from *oppression* or persecution, a trying experience, tribulation means trial.*
Acts 14:22 KJV
"Confirming the souls of the disciples, and exhorting them to continue in the faith, and that we must through *much tribulation* enter into the kingdom of God."
Then said Jesus unto his disciples, "*If any man will come after me, let him *DENY HIMSELF, and TAKE UP HIS CROSS,* and follow me. For whosoever will save his life shall lose it: and whosoever will lose his life for my sake shall find it.*" Matthew 16:24-26 KJV
*Tribulation started in Genesis when Adam forfeited his governance over the world, when he obeyed satan instead of God. Satan instead of man(Adam) has been the governing power over the world's ruling powers ever since. (Read Genesis, KJV).
Satan rules in the kingdoms of this World.
The kingdoms of the world( the empires) are referred to as beasts, because they are kingdoms without the true God( They are antichrists ). Satan is the one who gives the beasts their power. Read the Book of Daniel. Read Revelation to understand the end as it relates to the beginning in Genesis.
Matthew 4:8, KJV "Again, the devil taketh him up into an exceeding high mountain, and sheweth him all the kingdoms of the world, and the glory of them; [9] And saith unto him, All these things will I give thee, if thou wilt fall down and worship me."
Luke 4:5-8, KJV. "And the devil, taking him up into an high mountain, shewed unto him all the kingdoms of the world in a moment of time. And the devil said unto him, All this *power* will I give thee, and the glory of them: for that is delivered unto me; and to whomsoever I will I give it. If thou therefore wilt worship me, all shall be thine. And Jesus answered and said unto him, Get thee behind me, Satan: for it is written, Thou shalt worship the Lord thy God, and him only shalt thou serve.
Do you see? The devil lies: the power was not given to him freely by God.
God freely gave Adam(man) dominion over the earth, but Adam through his disobedience losses it to satan, when he *chose* to put faith in the devil rather than God.
*Satan( previously known as Lucifer) will continue to rule, though his total ruling power has been forfeited by the sacrificial blood of Christ, and the resurrection of Christ. Satan no longer has power over all souls unless you willingly give satan your soul.
Satan and his followers are hellbound. Satan no longer has the key over hell, death and the grave. He cannot hold captive of the souls that belong to Christ.
Christ's Sacrificial Blood forfeited all of satan's powers obtained through his deception of man & woman in the Garden of Eden.
Revelation 1:17-18, King James Version(KJV)
"And when I saw him, I fell at his feet as dead. And he laid his right hand upon me, saying unto me, Fear not; I am the first and the last: I am he that liveth, and was dead; and, behold, I am alive for evermore, Amen; and have the keys of hell and of death."
Revelation 3:7, KJV "To the angel of the church in Philadelphia write: These are the words of the One who is holy and true, who holds the key of David. What He opens no one can shut, and what He shuts no one can open."
On The Day of Christ: All who are Christ's and are dead will be resurrected, and those in Christ who are still alive until Christ returns will be transformed from mortality to immortality, and rise to the Spiritual( incorruptible bodies)of eternal life and peace, free from suffering, war, and pain. There are no tears, and no need for money in Christ's coming Kingdom, no rich vs poor, no pale skin vs dark skin, no upper-class vs lower-class, no aristocrats vs. peasants, etc. There are no narcissists in Christ's Kingdom. For we are all one in Christ Jesus, and there is no evil, or sin there.
Amen!!!
The return of Christ: The Day of The Lord, is not a quiet rapture event.
*Pretribulation? or After Tribulation?
Let God answer the question:*
It is written in Matthew 24: 29 -31, KJV.*
"*Immediately AFTER THE TRIBULATION of those days* *shall the SUN BE DARKENED, and the MOON SHALL NOT GIVE HER LIGHT, and the STARS SHALL FALL FROM HEAVEN, and the POWERS OF THE HEAVENS SHALL BE SHAKEN:* *And THEN SHALL APPEAR THE SIGN OF THE SON OF MAN IN HEAVEN: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and THEY SHALL SEE THE SON OF MAN COMING IN THE CLOUDS OF HEAVEN WITH POWER AND GREAT GLORY.*
*"And He shall send His angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall GATHER TOGETHER HIS ELECT FROM THE FOUR WINDS, FROM ONE END OF HEAVEN TO THE OTHER.*"
The Rapture:
*"And He shall send His angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall GATHER TOGETHER HIS ELECT FROM THE FOUR WINDS, FROM ONE END OF HEAVEN TO THE OTHER.*"
1 Thessalonians 4:17 King James Version
"*Then we which are ALIVE and REMAIN shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.*"
Christ has the ultimate power over all.
Sin and satan's worldly kingdoms are coming to an end.
The new Earth which is called The New Jerusalem will descend from Heaven, and only the meek( All those who belong to Christ) will inherit this Earth. Christ shall be our King, and we shall be His people forever. Christ's Kingdom and the His inheritance of the throne of David will be from everlasting to everlasting. Then you will see true Peace, with the The Prince of Peace who is Christ Jesus.
I really enjoy your videos, I’m on the fence about the timing of the rapture. I wanted to ask your viewpoint of a couple pre trib arguments I’ve heard.
If we are raptured at the end and our bodies transformed, who is it that will populate the millenium? Also, why did Jesus say He went to prepare a place for us in Heaven if we would simply come back to Earth for the millenium?
God always has a remnant.
you can read about the remnant after the rapture
Rev. 11
12 And they heard a great voice from heaven saying unto them, Come up hither. And they ascended up to heaven in a cloud; and their enemies beheld them.
13 And the same hour was there a great earthquake, and the tenth part of the city fell, and in the earthquake were slain of men seven thousand: and 👉the remnant👈 were affrighted, and gave glory to the God of heaven.
WE already occupy the heavenly place Jesus prepared for us
Eph. 2
6 And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus:
"hath" and "made" are past tense
already done.
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I really think that the 6th seal is the timing of the rapture and for multiple reasons.
1. I think Revelation 6:12-17 is the commencing of the Day of the Lord. It matches passages like Joel 2:31-32 and Isaiah 34:4-8. Note the deliverance in Joel 2:32. Paul quotes this verse speaking to Roman Gentiles in Romans 10:12-13... and we have all the same elements as we see in all the Olivet Discourse passages. Jesus is revealed from heaven here in Revelation 6:16. And the tribes of earth are mourning and fearful just like described in Matthew 24:30 and Luke 21:26.
2. The angels haven't been permitted to harm the earth yet in Revelation 7:1-3. And just like with the example of Noah and Lot, as we read in Genesis 19, the angels cannot do anything until Lot escapes. Luke 17:29-30 then also confirms that similar to Lot escaping Sodom, someone is escaping on the same day as the Son of Man is revealed. As I already showed, Jesus was revealed in Revelation 6:16. Revelation 7 is happening on this same day as Jesus is revealed. 2nd Thessalonians 1:6-10 also describes a rest for believers on the Day that Jesus is revealed from heaven... [with mighty angels], to take vengeance.
3. Also as already discussed, Luke 17:29-30 does not just say that Lot needs to escape on the same day as the Son of Man is revealed, but that there must also be fire and brimstone raining down from heaven... all on the same day. We see the first instance of fire from heaven in the 1st Trumpet in Revelation 8:4-7. And verse 1 says only a half an hour separates the 6th seal from the 1st Trumpet. So, indeed all three things are occurring on the same day.
1. Son of Man revealed
2. Escape like that of Lot from Sodom.
3. Fire and brimstone rain down from heaven.
Joel 2 is a "Day of the Lord" passage. It says so plainly. And compare Joel 2:30 with Revelation 8:7
Also interestingly, compare Numbers 16:46 with Revelation 8:1-4
your words ----I really think that the 6th seal is the timing of the rapture and for multiple reasons.
why do you deny trumpet 7 ?
Job 14
12 So man lieth down, and riseth not: till the heavens be no more, they shall not awake, nor be raised out of their sleep.
as long as the heavens exist, there is no resurrection of the dead
2 Peter 3 says the heavens pass away at the day of the Lord
so the resurrection must be after the day of the Lord commences
Notice, there are signs in the heavens at seal 6
the heavens stiill exist, no resurrection has occured
notice there are signs in the heavens at trumpet 4
the heavens still exist, no resurrection has occured
notice there are signs in the heavens at vial 4
the heavens still exist, no resurrection has occured
and we all know according to 1 Thes. 4 the resurrection is BEFORE the rapture.
the very event that all pre tibulation rapture worshipers ignore.
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@GodsOwnGodZone
Mark 13:24-27 is an Olivet Discourse passage too and it includes a gathering of all those on the earth and in heaven. Sounds like rapture and resurrection. This is consistent with Ephesians 1:10. Just because the resurrection isn't mentioned by name here in Revelation 7, does not mean that it is not occurring here.
Matthew 24:31 only mentions a gathering of the elect in heaven.
Luke 21:28 describes a redemption of the people on earth who are suppose to look up when they see the Son of Man coming in the clouds.
Mark 13:27 includes both
And all three of these match Revelation 6:12-7:9
The innumerable multitude appears to be raptured saints, but they may very well be accompanied with the resurrected dead who were raised first.
Paul links Isaiah 52 and 60 to a resurrection in Ephesians 5:14. And there's a very curious event occurring in Isaiah 52:10-15. Note the kings of the earth in verse 15. Kings of the earth in Revelation 6:15 too.
The heavens have receded like a scroll in Revelation 6:12-14. Their destruction is probably what leads to all the horrific events that we read about in the rest of the book of Revelation, such as things like mountains crashing into the earth, scorching heat, and fire, brimstone, and hailstones falling from the sky. 2nd Peter 3 says all these things are associated with the Day of the Lord and those things begin here... after the 6th seal. But Lot has to escape Sodom first. And even on the same day as these things commence. Luke 21:34-36.
"Stand before the Son of Man." Verse 36
Revelation 7:9
"Standing before the throne and before the Lamb."
We are told in Scripture that every word will be established by the testimony of two or three witnesses.
And surely God does nothing unless He reveals His secret to His servants the prophets.
We therefore just need to match them up. Isaiah 34:16, 2nd Peter 1:20, Ecclesiastes 12:11
We then gain better understanding and context.
Jesus exampled this for us in Matthew 4.
@@seasquawker
revelation 7 shows the multitude serving God IN HIS TEMPLE
REV. 7
15 Therefore are they before the throne of God, and serve him day and night in his temple: and he that sitteth on the throne shall dwell among them.
and Revelation 15 IS VERY CLEAR
NO MAN has access to the temple until the Plagues are done
Rev. 15
8 And the temple was filled with smoke from the glory of God, and from his power; and no man was able to enter into the temple, till the seven plagues of the seven angels were fulfilled.
Please study your bible
ok?
Thx
.
@@seasquawker
Luke 21:28 describes a redemption of the people on earth who are suppose to look up when they see the Son of Man coming in the clouds.
THAT IS CHRISTIANS
WAITING FOR THE LORD TO COME IN THE CLOUDS WITH POWER and GLORY
AFTER tribulation
AFTER the signs in the sun, moon and stars
Good stuff, as always. Would you go so far as to be super practical and advise Believers to have, oh, I don't know, a three-and-a-half year supply of food stocked up? Also, historically speaking, the Church has long suffered through the same cataclysms as the World - economic depressions, plagues, and wars - and has further suffered horrible martyrdoms in Communist and Islamic countries. I don't see any HISTORICAL reason why the Church should be spared a further bit of suffering and martyrdom in the Tribulation any less than what we've already experienced historically.
Stocking up food would seem wise, and having emergency supplies is never a bad idea, but if you think that saving a 3.5 to 7 year supply of food and medical provisions will keep you safe; if you rely on your forethought and ingenuity to save you, you might find that "hoarding" becomes a crime and you are arrested, you may be robbed, you may be forced to move and unable to take your cache with you.
So, prepare, but be prepared to face being unprepared...as long as you are prepared with enough "OIL."
Revelations 3:10 1 Thessalonians 5:9 and I believe many more explain there is a pre trib rapture
We have done videos explaining why none of these texts support a pre-tribulational rapture. I greatly encourage you to give them a listen. Blessings.
@@JoelRichardson God bless you too
Joel, where in this can we place Jesus' words, "I will raise him up on the last day," ?
adding Paul's last trumpet resurrection and MYSTERY(1 cor. 15: 51-52) and resurrection AT HIS COMING(1 cor. 15: 23) to Jesus' AT THE LAST DAY( john 6: 39, 40, 44, 54) ...
... I strongly believe all these clues point to Revelation 10 and 11.
The angel swaring the end of time, trumpet 7, the last trumpet and the MYSTERY complete
Rev. 10
5 And the angel which I saw stand upon the sea and upon the earth lifted up his hand to heaven,
6 And sware by him that liveth for ever and ever, who created heaven, and the things that therein are, and the earth, and the things that therein are, and the sea, and the things which are therein, that there should be time no longer:
7 But in the days of the voice of the seventh angel, when he shall begin to sound, the mystery of God should be finished, as he hath declared to his servants the prophets.
the resurrection and rapture in the clouds of OUR BROTHERS IN CHRIST, the two witnesses at trumpet 7
Revelation 11: 11-12, 15
11 And after three days and an half the spirit of life from God entered into them, and they stood upon their feet; and great fear fell upon them which saw them.
12 And they heard a great voice from heaven saying unto them, Come up hither. And they ascended up to heaven in a cloud; and their enemies beheld them.
15 And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever.
I hope this answers your question.
.
I understand what your saying but the NT teaches that it's consecutive and that's a fact.
The Seals, Trumpet and Bowls are Consecutive-Progressive.
The 7th seal opens the 7 trumpets.
Rev 8:1: And when He opened the seventh seal there was a stillness in heaven for about half an hour. 2 And I saw the seven angels who stood before God, and seven trumpets were given to them.
The 7th trumpet opens the 7 bowls.
Rev 11:15-19 So the seventh angel trumpeted...
Rev 12:1-14:20 is a parenthetical interlude that goes back to develop events.
Rev 15:1 And I saw another sign in heaven, great and marvelous: seven angels having the seven last plagues-in them the fury of God is completed.
Rev 16:1 And I heard a loud voice from the sanctuary saying to the seven angels, “Go, pour out the bowls of God's fury on the earth.”
So as you can see from the text the seal, trumpets and bowls are Consecutive and there is no getting around it.
congruent
the wrath after trumpet 7 is the same as the wrath after vial 7
The 7 Plagues
Plague 1) earth
1st trumpet - The first angel sounded, and there followed hail and fire mingled with blood, and they were cast upon the earth
1st vial - And the first went, and poured out his vial upon the earth;
Plague 2) sea
2nd trumpet - and as it were a great mountain burning with fire was cast into the sea:
2nd vial - And the second angel poured out his vial upon the sea;
Plague 3) waters
3rd trumpet - and it fell upon the third part of the rivers, and upon the fountains of waters;
3rd vial - And the third angel poured out his vial upon the rivers and fountains of waters;
Plague 4) sun
4th trumpet - and the third part of the sun was smitten,
4th vial - And the fourth angel poured out his vial upon the sun
Plague 5) darkness and pain
for the kingdom of the beast
5th trumpet - and the sun and the air were darkened - and their torment was as the torment of a scorpion, when he striketh a man. And they had a king over them, which is the angel of the bottomless pit
5th vial - And the fifth angel poured out his vial upon the seat of the beast; and his kingdom was full of darkness; and they gnawed their tongues for pain,
Plague 6) Euphrates
6th trumpet - Loose the four angels which are bound in the great river Euphrates.
6th vial - And the sixth angel poured out his vial upon the great river Euphrates;
Plague 7)
7th trumpet -
and there were lightnings, and voices, and thunderings, and an earthquake, and great hail.
7th vial -
And there were voices, and thunders, and lightnings; and there was a great earthquake, And there fell upon men a great hail out of heaven.
.
the words AND I SAW in Revelation 8: 2
is the begining of a scene change in John's vision between the seals and trumpets
notice HE DID NOT SAY
and THEN I SAW, which would tell us its chronological
Job 14
12 So man lieth down, and riseth not: till the heavens be no more, they shall not awake, nor be raised out of their sleep.
as long as the heavens exist, there is no resurrection of the dead
2 Peter 3 says the heavens pass away at the day of the Lord
so the resurrection must be after the day of the Lord commences
Notice, there are signs in the heavens at seal 6
the heavens stiill exist, no resurrection has occured
notice there are signs in the heavens at trumpet 4
the heavens still exist, no resurrection has occured
notice there are signs in the heavens at vial 4
the heavens still exist, no resurrection has occured
and we all know according to 1 Thes. 4 the resurrection is BEFORE the rapture.
the very event that all pre tibulation rapture worshipers ignore.
.
@@GodsOwnGodZone Grace to you,
You're trying really hard to avoid the obvious, read it again, scripture does not contradict it self.
The Seals, Trumpet and Bowls are Consecutive-Progressive as I have posted.
You said"the wrath after trumpet 7 is the same as the wrath after vial 7"
That is not what the text says, just because they are similar does not mean they are the same, Plus as I have posted the NT says they are Consecutive-Progressive, your statement contradicts what the text has already said.
@@troy5659
sorry pal, you are wrong
the trumpets + the vials are the last 7 plagues.
IF YOU THINK GOD IS GOING TO SEND THE SAME WRATH TWICE UPON THE EARTH, YOU ARE GRAVELY MISTAKEN
Just because YOU think they are consecutive doesn't make it so.
If the vials ONLY are the 7 last plagues
THEN WHY DID JOHN CALL THE TRUMPETS "PLAGUES"
Rev 9
20 And the rest of the men which were not killed by 👉these plagues yet repented not of the works of their hands, that they should not worship devils, and idols of gold, and silver, and brass, and stone, and of wood: which neither can see, nor hear, nor walk:
THAT WOULD MEAN THERE ARE 14 last plagues, and NOT 7.
PLUS the thief gathers those who are watching at VIAL 7
and HE BLESSES THEM
HE CERTAINLY IS NOT BLESSING WICKED and godless LEFT-BEHINDERS
Revelation 16
15 Behold, I come as a thief. Blessed is he that watcheth, and keepeth his garments, lest he walk naked, and they see his shame.
16 And he gathered them together into a place called in the Hebrew tongue Armageddon.
17 And the seventh angel poured out his vial into the air; and there came a great voice out of the temple of heaven, from the throne, saying, It is done.
ENDURE TO THE END as JESUS TOLD US TO DO.
or be a child of DISOBEDIENCE and get the wrath
Ephesians 5
6 Let no man deceive you with vain words: for because of these things cometh the wrath of God upon the children of disobedience.
Ooh mystically, let's just pretend it's post trib somehow!
Joel in response to the comments right around 17 minutes 14 seconds in this video where you said when the rapture takes place were caught up in the air and we immediately return with the Lord for his second coming, what about the marriage supper of the lamb? Wouldn’t the ruptured Christians go to the marriage supper of the lamb? spend some time in heaven with Jesus before the return. Time doesn’t exist in heaven. The raptured Christians could go to the marriage supper lamb in heaven for a length of time and come back at the second coming, from an earthly point of view this could be simultaneous, but those that are in heaven it could be a good length of time.
Just wanted your thoughts on this, love your videos.
HEY JOEL
Does it make sense to you that those who take the mark of the beast get sores at vial 1
AFTER the global resurrection of the dead at trumpet 7
Considering the global resurrection includes those that done good and those that done evil
John 5
28 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice,
29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.
since the dead, both good and evil are raised at His coming
it would also make sense the all those alive are changed to immortal both the good and the evil
so why would the beast worshipers get sores AFTER they have been changed?
???
Im sorry Joel, but i have NEVER heard Jan Markell say that if one doesnt believe in a pre-trib rapture that means you are liberal or walking away from your Faith. We are ALL brothers/sisters in Christ. We will all go up together no matter when the Rapture will be. Please do not be condescending of your brothers and sisters in Christ.
Paul told us the rapture is AFTER the resurrection of the dead
1 Thes. 4
16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.
Daniel places the resurrection of the dead AFTER a time of trouble which Jesus called great tribulation
Daniel 12
And at that time shall Michael stand up, the great prince which standeth for the children of thy people: and there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time: and at that time thy people shall be delivered, every one that shall be found written in the book.
2 And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt.
It would take the gift of strong delusion to confuse this simple order of events.
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She totally does. I'm extremely gracious toward her, but she treats post-tribbers with great contempt.
Pre wrath and post trib are the same thing. The tribulation is 1-6 seal and 1-7 trumpets. The wrath is after hhe 7th trumpet. The rapture or harvest is the 6th seal/7th trumpet. One event one time shown twice. End of the 6th seal is the rapture and the end of the 7th trumpet is the same event.
Any questions on it and ill try and show. Most wont see it though because they still believe in a pretrib rapture.
The first resurrection is tied to those that "are alive and remain" for the remaining, living saints will be changed when Christ returns. But the dead in Christ will be raised first. (1 Thessalonians 4:16-17) To be "in Christ" (as in sanctified in Christ and taken into the presence of God the Father a person must be confessed by Christ to his Father. Except for those who are the first resurrected that only happens after judgment. Christians who must be judged will be judged in the "second death" on the "last day"and their names will also have to be found in the book of life. The foolish virgins will get their time to plead their cause before the white throne of judgment just like those who thought they were Spirit filled but rejected in Matthew 7:21-23 but they will fail. 1 Corinthians 15:23 "those who are Christ's at his coming" are those of the first resurrection because they will not be subject to the power of the second death because their works follow (Strong's 150>follow = accompany) them. Those of the first resurrection will be holy and blessed which makes then candidates for the first resurrection. All others will be judged in Revelation 20:11-15 from the books of their works and those whose names are not found in the book of life will be cast into the lake of fire. To get ones name in the book of life they must be born again. If a person is not born again they will not see or enter the kingdom of heaven (John 3:1-6). Just because a person is born again does not mean they have a guaranteed entry into the kingdom of God. Revelation 3:1-6 Jesus warns the church in Sardis that they have a number who have soiled their garments and they must repent of Christ will blot out their names from the book of life. Jesus will only resurrect the holy and blessed to serve with him and the Father during the millennium. The first resurrection Revelation 20:4-6 is only for martyrs. Pre-wrath rapture is unsubstantiated through out scripture. Hebrews 9:27 "as it is appointed unto man once to die and then the judgment but that judgment only happens on the "last day" All the plagues sent upon the people of earth before the Lord returns is to cause them to repent. Christians will not suffer the boils from taking the mark of the beast. Christians will not be stung by the locusts with scorpion tails because they will be sealed by God. Go protects his own. For instance Noah stayed in the world while the world around him was destroyed. The righteous were protected and the wicked were removed. In Egypt the children of Israel were eventually separated from the Egyptians for roughly the last five plagues. The Israeli children were far from righteous but were spared while in Egypt. Hezekiah went to God and prayed and Sennacherib's army was destroyed but not one Israeli was hurt. Lot left his home and barely escaped the judgment God sent on the cities of Sodom and Gomorrah. But Lot dawdled. Lot was not raptured and his wife perished because she disobeyed. It will be that close. Beneath the altar in Revelation 6:9 souls were revealed that had been killed for their testimony and they cried out to God wanting to know how long before God exacted vengeance upon the people of the earth for their blood. The Lord told them to rest a little while until the number of their brethren and fellow-servants who must die in like manner as them was fulfilled. Those souls were holy ( whatsoever is placed on the altar is holy). They were given white Robes as a testimony of their righteousness and in like manner the Spirit declares they were blessed in Revelation 14:13. Holy and blessed is the description of the saints in Revelation 20:4-6 which says they would not have to face the second death The Revelation 6:9-11 passage is believed by many to be about when the great tribulation starts is The fifth seal. Revelation 20:5 states those that serve with the Lord during the millennium period are all of the first resurrection and no others are raised to life until the millennium period is over. The last day of the millennium period is the "last day" resurrection spoken of many times in John Chapter 6. As in the past God will protect his obedient people but will condemn the wicked. Christians can be and will be present but God will protect them. God will cut the time short because otherwise there would be not flesh left and flesh will be needed to repopulate the world as in Isaiah 65:20-25 and Zechariah 14:16-19. As in the Exodus there will be survivors who are not strong believes when Christ returns.
Last day rapture.right at the end. 21:29 ^Noah's 🚢 takes you through the wrath. 🌈 rainbow
And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.
John 6:40 (KJV)
Why the timing of the rapture matters; when you are threatened with persecution and compelled to put a mark in your right hand to allow you to buy/sell, what are you going to do? pray for deliverance? but if you got it wrong and you and your family will be subject to tribulation and cannot buy food, then you might have to watch your family starve or be imprisoned or killed. If you take a moment to imagine what surviving without money looks like while being ostracised from society, you have to acknowledge that you should be prepared for this.
When CBDCs are brought in and cash is abolished, you know it is time to get out of the city and plant a vege garden. That's all I am sayin'
Hoopa 🌈
(Sorry did not watch whole video yet) In short: one question, I believe the rapture happens literally at the 7the trumpet and the final stage of his return is at Armageddon, is this reasoning correct !?
I believe the resurrection of the dead is at trumpet 7 and the rapture is the same LAST DAY at vial 7
trumpets AND vials together = the 7 last plagues.
John calls the events during the trumpets ....
Revelation 9
20 And the rest of the men which were not killed by these 👉plagues👈 yet repented not of the works of their hands, that they should not worship devils, and idols of gold, and silver, and brass, and stone, and of wood: which neither can see, nor hear, nor walk:
Here we see the thief comes and blessing those watching and gathers them together
Revelation 16
15 Behold, I come as a thief. Blessed is he that watcheth, and keepeth his garments, lest he walk naked, and they see his shame.
16 And he gathered them together into a place called in the Hebrew tongue Armageddon.
17 And the seventh angel poured out his vial into the air; and there came a great voice out of the temple of heaven, from the throne, saying, It is done.
I think you have a good understanding
more than most who deny trumpet 7 completely
.
16:15 Revelation 7*
There is one verse that eliminates the pretrib, midtrib and prewrath doctrines. There is more than just one verse, but I am going to provide one that will convince anyone that it excludes the pretrib, midtrib, and prewrath doctrines.
The pretrib don't believe they will be here for any of the last 7 years, the midtrib believe they will be taken away in the middle of the last 7 years, and the prewrath believe they will be taken away sometime during the last 3 1/2 years.
All camps, the pretrib, midtrib, prewrath, and posttrib, all collectively agree that the passages concerning Christians to watch, and thief in the night, is referring to the rapture.
Jesus reminds the believers to watch in the book of Revelation. When? Before the last 7 years, in the middle, or sometime in the last 3 1/2 years, or, at the end of the 7 years?
Revelation 16:15
Behold, I come as a thief. Blessed is he that watcheth, and keepeth his garments, lest he walk naked, and they see his shame.
----
After the 6th vial/bowl is poured out, verse 12,
and just prior to the 7th vial/bowl is poured out, verse 17.
Had the rapture/resurrection, happened at any time prior to the 6th vial being poured out, the warning to watch after the 6th vial was poured out would have been unnecessary.
Paul wrote this
1 Corinthians 15:52
In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
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When Jesus warned the believers to watch in Revelation chapter 16:15, he was marking this spot , indicating to his believers, this is where the last trump will be blown, the 7th trumpet.
For those that hold to the prewrath, examine theses verses, Joshua 10:12, Revelation 8:12,
with this verse.
Matthew 24:22
And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened.
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The days will be shortened, but not in the way you think they will be.
For anyone concerned about being here for the last 7 years.
Revelation 9:4
And it was commanded them that they should not hurt the grass of the earth, neither any green thing, neither any tree; but only those men which have not the seal of God in their foreheads.
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If you have the seal, the Holy Spirit, God is going to take care of you, like he did with his people Israel in Goshen.
Revelation 1:3
Blessed is he that readeth, and they that hear the words of this prophecy, and keep those things which are written therein: for the time is at hand.
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What would be the purpose of reading, hearing, and keeping what is written in Revelation, if we wouldn't be here for it?
Who would be the prisoners that Jesus would be setting free in concentration camps they must not be believers because if they are believers wouldn’t they have been raised to meet Jesus in the air, so are they unbelievers and if they are unbelievers, is he releasing them so he can witness to them
Joel, have you considered the 2 witnesses being called up as the dead in Christ being raised?
It sounds to me like they're called up at the last or 7th trumpet 🎺 and God speaks loudly, "Come up here."
Then, the vials of God's wrath are poured out. The seals and trumpets are not the wrath of God. Only the vials or cups are specifically called the wrath of God.
I agree with trumpet 7
However, Vial 7 certainly shows the gathering of those watching when the thief comes.
I prefer to believe trumpet 7 and vial 7 are the same last day.
.
the trumpets and vials make up the 7 last plagues
resurrection at trumpet 7
rapture gathering at vial 7
the wrath after each is the same
voices
lightnings
thunders
earthquake
hail
here is quick comparison
The 7 Plagues
Plague 1) earth
1st trumpet - The first angel sounded, and there followed hail and fire mingled with blood, and they were cast upon the earth
1st vial - And the first went, and poured out his vial upon the earth;
Plague 2) sea
2nd trumpet - and as it were a great mountain burning with fire was cast into the sea:
2nd vial - And the second angel poured out his vial upon the sea;
Plague 3) waters
3rd trumpet - and it fell upon the third part of the rivers, and upon the fountains of waters;
3rd vial - And the third angel poured out his vial upon the rivers and fountains of waters;
Plague 4) sun
4th trumpet - and the third part of the sun was smitten,
4th vial - And the fourth angel poured out his vial upon the sun
Plague 5) darkness and pain
for the kingdom of the beast
5th trumpet - and the sun and the air were darkened - and their torment was as the torment of a scorpion, when he striketh a man. And they had a king over them, which is the angel of the bottomless pit
5th vial - And the fifth angel poured out his vial upon the seat of the beast; and his kingdom was full of darkness; and they gnawed their tongues for pain,
Plague 6) Euphrates
6th trumpet - Loose the four angels which are bound in the great river Euphrates.
6th vial - And the sixth angel poured out his vial upon the great river Euphrates;
Plague 7)
7th trumpet -
and there were lightnings, and voices, and thunderings, and an earthquake, and great hail.
7th vial -
And there were voices, and thunders, and lightnings; and there was a great earthquake, And there fell upon men a great hail out of heaven.
seal 7, trumpet 7 and vial 7 = the day of the Lord
There is a scriptural answer for, unless those days be shortened, so that it harmonizes perfectly with all other scripture.
Matthew 24:22
And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened.
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The days will be shortened, but how?
Joshua 10:12
Then spake Joshua to the LORD in the day when the LORD delivered up the Amorites before the children of Israel, and he said in the sight of Israel, Sun, stand thou still upon Gibeon; and thou, Moon, in the valley of Ajalon.
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The purpose of the sun standing still, was so that Joshua had the daylight to defeat the enemy.
What is the antichrist going to do?
Revelation 12:17
And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.
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Except those days be shortened, there should no flesh be saved.
Those days must be shortened, or the antichrist will kill all which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.
The days are shortened.
Revelation 8:12
And the fourth angel sounded, and the third part of the sun was smitten, and the third part of the moon, and the third part of the stars; so as the third part of them was darkened, and the day shone not for a third part of it, and the night likewise.
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They are shortened by daylight, not by less days.
Joshua had more daylight to get victory over his enemy, the antichrist will have less daylight.
Joel, Joel, Joel! Love you brother but consider what Jesus is talking about in Matt. 24:22. What are “those days”? He tells us in verse 21, “a great tribulation”. What’s going on during this great tribulation. Christians (elect)are being persecuted and killed(Matt. 24:9). To cut short this persecution and killing God can either remove the people being persecuted or the persecutor(antichrist). His word says He is going to do the former. He will remove his elect the same day he starts his wrath(Luke 17:26-30). Israel is not quote unquote saved yet but at least 144000 are being protected. More to say but for now I thank God for what He has shown me thru you Joel.
Enoch
The words of the blessing of Enoch, wherewith he blessed the elect and righteous, who will be living in the day of tribulation, when all the wicked and godless are to be removed.
Cor cor cor. I love you, but...
I think youre wrong and pretrib also teaches the group in Rev 7 are martyrs. The believers arent appointed to any wrath whatsoever, whether it be in our mortal bodies or after we die. Persecution yes, wrath no.
How about just doing what His word says, now ,today. All this pre, mid, post stuff is irrelevant. Be about His business, you don't even know if you're going to be sucking air 39 seconds from now.
I disagree with your point that suggests pre-wrath mishandles there being a 3 and a half year period while mantaining that those days are cut short else no flesh will be saved. Your argument is virtually the same as pre tribulationists who wrongfully presuppose that the entire 7 year period is tribulation. They wrongfully conflate the entire 7 year period as tribulation just as you conflated tribulation with 3 and a half years. 3 and a half years and tribulation are not synonymous. The final 3 and a half years consists of 2 elements: tribulation/persecution by the hand of the antichrist against Christians, and Gods wrath against the antichrist and those who follow after him. Pre wrath doesnt claim that the three and a half years is cut short. They claim (what scripture says in Matt 24) that the time of great tribulation is cut short for the sake of the elect. The remaining time in this 3 and a half years consists of Gods wrath. We simply cannot conflate 3 and a half years with the great tribulation because no where in scripture do we see this time stamp. The tribulation is cut short. The remaining time is Gods wrath. No scriptural contradiction.
The Bible says blessed are those who endure to the 1335 days. Thats over 3.5 years. Is it true or not?
@@JoelRichardson I don't necessarily think that begins at the midpoint of the 7 years. I don't think there is enough information for us to assume that it begins at the midpoint. There is just as much reason why the 1335 days should start at the end, (which I believe is close to none). I believe that 1335 days begins at the beginning of the 7 year period because it would correspond to the day of Jubilee, when the trumpet will sound. I'm not big on these being literal numbers, but 1335/7 is 190. The day of Jubilee is the 190th day in the Hebrew calendar year. I believe this is significant in showing how the rapture will be related to the day of Jubilee/Day of atonement when the trumpet will sound and we are made new. I don't think I have seen pre-wrathers such as Dr. Alan Kurschner speak of this, so maybe you are right with your critique of the view. But I have certainly heard this within the pre wrath camp and I think it provides good insight on when the 1335 days begins. I just don't think it makes sense for Daniel 12 to set the framework (1260+1290) and then provide another number that will be outside it and assume it must begin at the mid point. I think it makes more sense that this number is set to reflect something within the framework. I'm a fan of your channel, btw. Nothing I say is to be dogmatic or uber critical. I appreciate your thoughtfulness on these matters.
@@bradsmalley7675 Its very specific. From the abomination of desolation, there will be 1290 days. Blessed are those who attain to the 1335 days. I do not see a way to get around this. Time will tell. Blessings.
Joel, Lee Brainard ('soothkeep') very recently (posting Apr 26, 2024) came out with a very direct attack on the pre-wrath position. Since I know he has repeatedly declined to debate you, I very much would like to see you review and respond to it, because frankly, his disingenuous and deliberate avoidance of your points on this topic really irritates me.
He's a dishonest and cowardly man who only speaks to his audience of yes men.
@@JoelRichardson I think it would be valuable if you called him out again directly point-for-point where he is being disingenuous in this latest output.
You won't survive the prewrath Joel ; I know what you did and I am the one that collects the trash.
Get some professional psychiatric help, brother.
You still don't know who I am yet. My throne room sits about 11 levels above your false witness self righteous bull shit.
The days of vengeance have been shortened to five months. This is documented in Matt 24:22, Rev 9:5 & 9:10, and a few other places, such as the days of Noah. 150 days.
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