I have been a pre tribulationist for 50 years. Last week, I finally had to admit that pre wrath lines up perfectly with scripture. Now scripture makes more sense to me. Ad so now I am listening to pre wrath teachings like this one. I had never been interested nor ever listened to any other teachings other than pre trib until today.
I am recently saved and have absolutely been consuming all content I can regarding the Bible and i've been reading it vigorously as well. However, I've been really struggling with the post, mid and pre-tribulation rupture. Because each one of them I found scripture that did sit well with me in regards to complicating them. However, this is the first I've heard of a pre wrath rupture and I've listened to this sermon 3 times already today. Aswell, gone through my Bible and it seems to fit the best in my mind. I will continue to study and pray on the matter but I'm very happy Ifound this sermon.
Look brother, people want you to think one is heresy or something over the other The truth is, if it's pre trib and you aren't lukewarm, you will rapture. If it's mid trib/pre wrath, you will die for your faith or rapture before God's wrath Either of those is correct and both positions are extremely tough to debate. There will be a falling away of the church(is it because persecution?) Many will be deceived
I believe in pre trib, but am ready to endure mid trib and post trib. Just be ready for anything. People who are 100% set on the pretrib might be thinking 'I won't be here' and if it doesn't come to pass, they might be the ones who lose faith.
This makes the Bible so much clearer. The Lord showed me that pre wrath was the correct belief but I could never make sense of the 144,00. Thank you so much - love your teaching !!!!!
When I was 7 years old my church did a huge month long teaching on the tribulation and played a film teaching the pretrib rapture. I remember as the pastor red through Revalation , and he would explain what the verses mean. I kept thinking “ But that’s not what the scripture says.” I thank you for this teaching because it’s so needed.
Mt 24: 21 For then there will be "great tribulation", such as has not been since the beginning of the world until this time, no, nor ever shall be. 22 And unless those days were shortened, no flesh would be saved;... Tribulation and wrath are interchangeable with each other. You can see that in this verse. Your told we are not appointed to wrath and wrath doesn't start until (fill in the blank). The King James versions show the church before the throne prior to the opening of the first seal. We don't want to be of those who delay their Master's coming, Mk 13:35 Watch therefore, for you do not know when the master of the house is coming-in the evening, at midnight, at the crowing of the rooster, or in the morning- lest, coming suddenly, he find you sleeping. 37 And what I say to you, I say to all: Watch!”
This is what I had studied and understood..I have been trying to teach it online on TikTok amidst fight and anger..thank you for revealing this though the Holy spirit
Have been following for 15 years. This is without a doubt the clearest, most comprehensive presentation of the whole phenomenon I have heard. Thank you for myself and any and all who hear.
I’m just curious, in your 15 years of researching the controversy for the timing of the Rapture of God’s true believers at the end of the age, who are the Biblical teachers that you have either read or listened too, who gave their reasons and referenced the Scriptural texts for why & what they believe, supported a pre-tribulation Rapture? In other words, like in a trial court, where the members of the jury, listen to the evidence presented for both sides of a controversy, before coming to a conclusion. Personally speaking, I can’t say that I know for sure when the rapture will take place, but I have spent some considerable time, researching all 3 sides of the argument, and not that I had a prejudice for believing one over the other, I just truly wanted to know which one seemed to have the most Biblical support. But a lot of people don’t do that , and just follow an emotional path,that’s completely independent of requiring any statistical data, or facts. And won’t change their mind even if the facts don’t support what they believe. But what little this man mentioned for what he believed about pre-tribulation rapture believers, wasn’t accurate, and evidently he hasn’t informed himself about much, if any of the reasons for why so many people believe in a pre-tribulation rapture. And maybe because he didn’t think it was necessary to know, because his Father had already come to a factual conclusion.
@@garywilson7992Matthew 24:29-31 [29]Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken: [30]And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. [31]And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other. SO THE ELECT ARE GATHERED AFTER THE TRIBULATION NOT BEFORE.
@@garywilson7992My testimony is similar to yours, that I soent considerable time in prayer and study of the subject. What I learned from most comments I read along way was that anyone who was pre trib was pre trib because they had been taught that. This was the case for me. I slso learned, and you will find this to be true in the comments here in this video, is that many who were pre trib changed their minds after doing an independent study of scripture without prejudice towards one view or the other. Also, those who come to the Lord with zero knowledge of any rapture and study on their oen, realize a pre wrath rapture as scriptural.
Your father played a HUGE roll in my life! God used him to help prepare me for what we are about to go through. I was raised pre trib. I was 36 when i got saved. I poured into God's word and became very close with Him. This relationship with God is what gave me the confidence to read your dads book, "The Pre Wrath Rapture." I knew the Holy Spirit would reveal to me right away if it was false teaching, the opposite happened, many questions i had concerning "pre trib" were answered. At that point, i knew that the teaching of a pre tribulation rapture was not correct. I knew God had used your father in a mighty way, to warn his church of what they could expect at the end of the age. I am far better prepared to face what is ahead, thanks to your father's sacrifice. Knowing the church would not be raptured until the 6th seal gave me the knowledge to prepare spiritually, mentally and physically for war, famine, pestilence. Speaking as a grandfather, father, and husband to my highschool sweetheart, I thank you and your father for the difference you've made in our lives! I am one man, we are just one family that has been forewarned. There are many, many more just like me that have been better prepared, thanks to your Dad! God bless him, and God bless your ministry and family! Thank you!
If it really was the Holy Spirit who told you that the pre-trib rapture was false then I expect he told you how to refute the following. Anything short of that then I'm afraid you're not worth listening to. The fact that Jesus told us to pray the we would be counted worth to *escape ALL that is ABOUT to happen,* supports a pre-trib rapture. The fact that Paul said that we are *NOT appointed to SUFFER WRATH* supports a pre-trib rapture. The fact that scripture says that Jesus *saves us from the WRATH to COME* supports a pre-trib rapture. The fact that Jesus said that the tribulation would play out as in the days of Noah and Lot who were *removed BEFORE the tribulation of their day* supports a pre-trib rapture. The fact that there are *elders in the throne room wearing crowns before the tribulation period starts* supports a pre-trib rapture. The fact that Jesus said that *the gates of hell would not overcome his church* and yet we see COUNTLESS tribulation saints being overcome by the antichrist supports a pre-trib rapture. The fact that the tribulation saints are not given white robes until *AFTER the tribulation period starts* supports a pre-trib rapture. The fact that Jesus warns us not to "soil our garments" and yet we see tribulation saint having to WASH theirs DURING the tribulation period supports a pre-trib rapture. The fact that Paul suggested handing a sinful Christian over to Satan "for the destruction of the flesh on the day of the Lord" supports a pre-trib rapture. The fact that Jesus indicated that there was a way to be *kept from the hour of trial that will come on the whole world* supports a pre-trib rapture. The fact that there *isn't a single account of the church being protected* in the entire book of Revelation supports a pre-trib rapture. The fact that God made it clear to Abraham that he does *NOT kill the righteous together with the wicked* supports a pre-trib rapture. And the fact that Abraham's question concerning what happens to the righteous is answered DIFFERENTLY than scripture teaches us supports a pre-trib rapture. Otherwise... why don't you answer it yourself: "Will you sweep away the righteous with the wicked? What if there are fifty righteous people in the city? Will you really sweep it away and not spare the place for the sake of the fifty righteous people in it? *Far be it from you to do such a thing-to kill the righteous with the wicked, treating the righteous and the wicked alike.* Far be it from you! Will not the Judge of all the earth do right?" (Genesis 18:25) So does the judge of all the world subject righteous people to the same death and destruction as the wicked? Read the continuation of that story to get the answer. Post-tribbers make out God to be someone who subjects people who are the "righteousness of God in Christ Jesus" to the deadliest period of time in the entire history of mankind - treating the righteous and the wicked alike! The only explanation that makes sense of these facts is that those saints who are being killed in the tribulation period have failed to live according to the law of Christ and by doing so have missed the rapture.
@paulbrennan4163 I respectfully disagree. Please listen again and thank the Holy Spirit for a deep understanding of the wrath of God. The Scripture you point are God's Word, but it is very confusing in light of the end of days. Also you are disrespectful to the person who gave their sincere thoughts. "Not worth listening to"
@@paulbrennan4163 I had nothing to do with Stephens death, yet he died as the "wicked", the same can be said of every believer to this very day according to you! According to you, all the disciples were wicked, because of how they died. Or could it be , you just don't understand when God's wrath begins. It's as plain as the nose on your face, Jesus told us when the rapture would occur, Matt 24:30-31. If the rapture was pre trib, Matt 24:4 would describe the rapture! Instead, it warns us that no man deceives us! Why is that? Did Jesus not think it important enough to mention? I don't think so! He describes it roughly when it takes place, after the abomination of desolation, Matt 24:30-31.
I’m STUNNED after listening to your eschatological discourse, because your explanation of the event between six and seven seal. I never understood until now my eyes are opened therefore, my tribulation has begun.
I knew your father in the early 80’s. Maeve come to a Revelation conference to a little baptist church on Albany Ga. I was an 18 year old new Christian and newly married. Maeve was certainly ahead of his time. But mostly I remember his sweet disposition! Truly a godly man!
during the covid pandemic, after going through scriptures. I do believe in a post trib pre wrath rapture. Hallelujah lets rejoice and encourage one another brothers and sisters
Amen, keep looking for the church rapture John 6 39-54 Jesus says at the Last day four times. Jesus is truth keep the faith The church rapture is at judgement day Revelation 21 New earth no more days Mystery Babylon tricked us The church was never promised white robes or the thousand year reign of Jesus The saints that overcome the Mark of the beast are promised white robes and the thousand year reign of Jesus Revelation 7 14 white robes Revelation 20 4 thousand year reign The church was promised everlasting life Daniel 12 2 And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt.
...and that position is supposed to "ENCOURAGE" the believer?!?! RU serious? The pre-trib rapture rebukes the pre-wrath, mid-trib, & post-trib rapture theories.
I don't see anything in scripture that says great tribulation being after the midpoint means there isn't any tribulation in the first half. Whether you want to call them birth pangs or not, it is still tribulation with a small t. It's just that it gets worse as time goes on. I am also not so sure that the "great tribuation" is cut short. It merely means that God has set a time limit. I don't seen that the "great tribulation" ENDS (OR IS CUT SHORT) and then the wrath begins. They're all part of the same thing. All I can say for sure is that believers are raptured before the wrath (Day of the Lord).
I used to be a pre-trib rapture believer almost most of my Christian life but i been reading, re- reading, comparing, studying, watching, listening and praying and this position makes the most scenes according to scripture. Grateful to come across this video.
@@the-hollywood-dog-says-6072 I agree but for the most part this view seems a lot more plausible to me but I also believe it will remain a mystery so I'm not settling on when exactly it will be and I'm also not going to try to understand something God hasn't plainly said. So it really is a mystery to all of us no matter what position we choose because if it was plainly mentioned there wouldn't be diff views.
@realdealholyfield-dx3bf How do you know that we aren't in the Tribulation right now? Look around you. HAMAS, which is not a country and Israel. I bet you don't know that Saudi Arabia and Israel have been negotiating a treaty for Israel to Build a new Temple right next to the Omar Mosque 🕌. Oh don't you know that Israel has all of the elements for their temple that can be built in less than 6 months? 🤔 2nd 3½ years is when the Great Tribulation begins when the world leader is unveiled
With so many pre-tribulation rapture videos on TH-cam that are a false deception, it was very edifying to watch this video. Scripture clearly teaches a pre-wrath rapture which I believe and you did a great job explaining. It opened my eyes to other things that I have not seen in my research. Thank you for posting!!!
Over the last 50 yrs I’ve heard many people “ prove “ from scripture several different views about the end times. When I was a teenager , seeing I was interested in the subject, my pastor gave me some advice . He said “you’ve got to remember, it’s only “their opinion “.
Post Trib rapture is based on scripture. PreTrib rapture is based on conjecture, speculation and misinterpretation of Scripture. Rapture is posttrib and It’s not really debatable. Here are some irrefutable truths. 1. The rapture is AFTER the resurrection. 1 Thessalonians 4. Dead in Christ shall rise first. 2. Jesus said the resurrection is on ‘THE LAST DAY’ over and over and over in John 6. That is the last day of the age of grace. The last day of life without Christ. The last day of the church age. The last day of the New Covenant. The next day starts the millennial kingdom. If the resurrection is ON THE LAST DAY obviously then this means that the rapture is on the last day since the RAPTURE IS AFTER THE RESURRECTION. The rapture is on the last day. 3. The resurrection / rapture is in Rev 20:4. Here we find ‘the last day’. John says he saw the dead come to life. This is the resurrection of the dead in Christ and the rapture is right after it. The rapture is post trib. It is AFTER Rev 5-19. The church goes THROUGH the tribulation. We will not experience Gods wrath just like Israel did not experience Gods wrath when God punished Egypt. And Noah didn’t experience Gods wrath when He flooded the whole earth, but Noah was preserved THROUGH the flood. Not raptured out of it. Israel was not raptured out of Egypt. God will test the church. He will have a pure spotless bride for His Son. Any other position other than a posttrib rapture twists and distorts Gods Word. And then there’s Jesus’ message in Matthew 24:29-31 “But immediately AFTER THE TRIBULATION of those days……..And then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in the sky, ………….And He will send forth His angels with a great trumpet and THEY WILL GATHER TOGETHER His elect from the four winds, from one end of the sky to the other. ------ Jesus Himself says that He is coming back for His church and will gather it immediately AFTER the tribulation. How can it get ANY CLEARER???? Stop with this false doctrine of a PreTrib rapture. The doctrine of escapism has to be exposed and refuted by the word of God. Too many people planning their escape instead of filling their lamp with oil. Having said this, in Rev 3:10 God promises to keep those who have proven their faithfulness from the hour of testing. Knowing that be so faithful that God keeps you from the tribulation. Remember this promise of Christ is to only ONE of the seven churches in Revelation. One. There are letters to SIX other churches. And remember this verse. Revelation 13:7 It was also given to him to make war with the saints and to overcome them, and authority over every tribe and people and tongue and nation was given to him. -- God will give Antichrist power to persecute and kill His saints. Sounds crazy but that’s His plan. Don’t let people tickle your ears with anything that’s not the truth. 2 Timothy 2:15 Be diligent to present yourself approved to God as a workman who does not need to be ashamed, accurately handling the word of truth. Read your Bible. Test your teachers. Reject false teachers. Endure to the end and you will be saved. That’s a promise from God.
Strange as it may be, we as Christians focus so much on the period of tribulation and the birth pangs. What we should mostly be focusing on is what the birth brings forth. The coming of our blessed hope Jesus Christ and the entry into the eternal age. Glory be to God, how our hearts burn for this.
I have been in the Pre-Wrath camp for many years, and I owe a lot of my Biblical knowledge to David's father, Marvin Rosenthal. He published a now famous book entitled The PRE-WRATH RAPTURE of the CHURCH in 1990. It is excellent, thorough, and well worth reading; again and again! Arm yourself with Truth! This is a life-changer. Amen.
my problem with this is that the rapture is contingent upon the resurrection of those in Christ happening first, then we who are alive and remain will be caught up together with them. This happens at the end of the Tribulation, Revelation 19-20 (20.4-6 specifically) as Christ said, "Immediately after the tribulation of those days." While I've heard many explanations, they're just interpretive gymnastic to explain away or avoid the plain text of Scripture. The Tribulation is not *THE* Wrath we are not appointed to. The Wrath we're not appointed to is the judgement of eternal damnation.
No, you're mistaken about the Wrath of God and the Lamb, what you consider to be the wrath is actually the Great White Throne Judgement. Here is scriptural proof: Rev.6:15 Then the kings of the earth, the nobles, the commanders, the rich, the mighty, and every slave and free man hid in the caves and among the rocks of the mountains. 16 And they said to the mountains and the rocks, “Fall on us and hide us from the face of the One seated on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb. 17 For the great day of Their wrath has come, and who is able to withstand it?”
I think the resurrection at the very end is the second resurrection of the DEAD, Christians are always "sleeping" and are part of the first resurrection. That's how I understood it. 👍
😂😂You kidding right?So after the Rapture Revelation 6:12 when he says the wrath has come in Revelation 6:17..then we view what is happening on earth in Revelation 7:1-3,then in heaven Rev:7:9 Then the 7Trumpets,7 Bowls7 vials start in Revelation 8 upon those who took the mark..is that judgement?When we see the 7 plagues in Revelation 15:1-2 while we are in heaven is that judgement?Judgement of the righteous is at Revelation 20:4 after the second coming in Revelation 19:11...I think it's clear as day
Did you consider the “first resurrection” mentioned in revelation 20:5? I’m trying to reconcile putting a resurrection of the saints in revelation chapter 7 (the great multitude). The dead in Christ rises FIRST.
@@1AbidingInTheLight The resurrection does not occur at at Revelation 20. The resurrected martyrs are just mentioned here because they will be resurrected to reign with Christ during the millennium and Revelation 20 is about the millennium. Isaiah 26:19-21 makes it clear that the resurrection precedes the wrath of God. This is one of the better proofs for a pre-wrath rapture since the martyrs in Revelation 20 and their resurrection would have to take place after the antichrist is revealed at the midpoint.
Yes,I too, was wonderfully helped by his book as well! The Pre-Wrath Rapture is the most cohesive unstrained,a d scripturally sound interpretation of the Rapture!
Rapture is posttrib. It’s not debatable. 1. Resurrection PRECEDES the rapture. 1 Thessalonians 4. Dead in Christ shall rise first. 2. Jesus said the resurrection is on ‘the last day’ over and over and over in John 6. That is the last day of the age of grace. The last day of life without Christ. And so shall we ever be with the Lord. Obviously then this also means the rapture is on the last day since the resurrection PRECEDES THE RAPTURE. 3. The resurrection / rapture is in Rev 20:4. John says he saw the dead come to life. HERE is the resurrection and rapture. It’s post trib. AFTER Rev 5-19. The church goes through the tribulation. We will not experience Gods wrath just like Israel did not experience Gods wrath when He punished Egypt. Any other position other than a posttrib rapture twists and distorts Gods Word. Matthew 24:29-31 The Glorious Return “But immediately after the tribulation of those days……..And then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in the sky, ………….And He will send forth His angels with A GREAT TRUMPET and THEY WILL GATHER TOGETHER His elect from the four winds, from one end of the sky to the other. --- Jesus Himself says that He is coming back for His church AFTER the tribulation. How can it get ANY CLEARER???? Stop with the false doctrine of a PreTrib rapture. This bad doctrine of escapism has got to be refuted. Too many people planning their escape instead of filling their lamp with oil. ---- The rapture is post Trib. False teachers constantly and incessantly gets this wrong and lead the church astray. Don’t listen to them about the rapture they are WRONG. STUDY. Show yourself approved. Don’t be ashamed. 1. The resurrection is BEFORE the rapture. 1 Thess 4. 2. The resurrection is ON THE LAST DAY. John 6. 3. The last day is in Revelation 20:4. THE DEAD CAME TO LIFE. This is the resurrection and rapture. The next day starts the millennial kingdom. Instead of planning your escape start filling your lamps with oil.
Post Trib rapture is based on scripture. PreTrib rapture is based on conjecture, speculation and misinterpretation of Scripture. Rapture is posttrib and It’s not really debatable. Here are some irrefutable truths. 1. The rapture is AFTER the resurrection. 1 Thessalonians 4. Dead in Christ shall rise first. 2. Jesus said the resurrection is on ‘THE LAST DAY’ over and over and over in John 6. That is the last day of the age of grace. The last day of life without Christ. The last day of the church age. The last day of the New Covenant. The next day starts the millennial kingdom. If the resurrection is ON THE LAST DAY obviously then this means that the rapture is on the last day since the RAPTURE IS AFTER THE RESURRECTION. The rapture is on the last day. 3. The resurrection / rapture is in Rev 20:4. Here we find ‘the last day’. John says he saw the dead come to life. This is the resurrection of the dead in Christ and the rapture is right after it. The rapture is post trib. It is AFTER Rev 5-19. The church goes THROUGH the tribulation. We will not experience Gods wrath just like Israel did not experience Gods wrath when God punished Egypt. And Noah didn’t experience Gods wrath when He flooded the whole earth, but Noah was preserved THROUGH the flood. Not raptured out of it. Israel was not raptured out of Egypt. God will test the church. He will have a pure spotless bride for His Son. Any other position other than a posttrib rapture twists and distorts Gods Word. And then there’s Jesus’ message in Matthew 24:29-31 “But immediately AFTER THE TRIBULATION of those days……..And then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in the sky, ………….And He will send forth His angels with a great trumpet and THEY WILL GATHER TOGETHER His elect from the four winds, from one end of the sky to the other. ------ Jesus Himself says that He is coming back for His church and will gather it immediately AFTER the tribulation. How can it get ANY CLEARER???? Stop with this false doctrine of a PreTrib rapture. The doctrine of escapism has to be exposed and refuted by the word of God. Too many people planning their escape instead of filling their lamp with oil. Having said this, in Rev 3:10 God promises to keep those who have proven their faithfulness from the hour of testing. Knowing that be so faithful that God keeps you from the tribulation. Remember this promise of Christ is to only ONE of the seven churches in Revelation. One. There are letters to SIX other churches. And remember this verse. Revelation 13:7 It was also given to him to make war with the saints and to overcome them, and authority over every tribe and people and tongue and nation was given to him. -- God will give Antichrist power to persecute and kill His saints. Sounds crazy but that’s His plan. Don’t let people tickle your ears with anything that’s not the truth. 2 Timothy 2:15 Be diligent to present yourself approved to God as a workman who does not need to be ashamed, accurately handling the word of truth. Read your Bible. Test your teachers. Reject false teachers. Endure to the end and you will be saved. That’s a promise from God.
All sides have convincing scriptures. All I know right now is that I have work to do for the LORD. And I trust that He will do what is Written, And take care of little ole me in the process. God bless.
I have done much study and conclude this Presentation is based on Scripture taken in proper context. Also one of the best presentations that would be understood by most Church goers.Pretribulation believers cannot offer definite Bible verses to support then timing of the Rapture. Jesus in Matthew 24 explicitly states what happens before the Rapture.Paul explicitly states in 2 Thess Ch 2 that the Apostasy and revealing of the antichrist are to take place. Well done David !
I can tell you exactly when the church rapture will happen The church rapture is at judgement day John 6 39-54 Jesus says at the Last day four times, simple just stop adding a thousand years or more after the day Jesus calls the Last day The church doesn't have one Bible verse that promised them white robes or the thousand year reign of Jesus The saints that overcome the Mark of the beast are promised white robes and the thousand year reign of Jesus Revelation 7 14 white robes Revelation 20 4 thousand year reign Jesus is truth keep the faith
I genuinely don't understand how anyone who has researched this subject can still defend pre-trib. I just don't get it. Is it clinging to ideology over the word of God, or is it ignorance? Either way, there's no excuse for the pastors. They shouldn't be putting man's ideology over God's word, and they definitely shouldn't be ignorant concerning the word of God.
Almost too funny, as I really almost could state the same thing about those who align with the "POST" position, but I won't. So tell me, what's THEE defining passage in your opinion that supports the "POST" position?
Because the certification process requires this indoctrination of pretrib. I've asked several pastors to help me understand the pretrib view as it would ease my mind a lot of the future. Yet none will even try because they can't defend it
I think it’s fear and pride that keeps them blind. They can’t understand how much God loves them so think it’s wrong and nasty for Him to not take them away before they get their faith tested
@@Kman.How about when Jesus said He was coming AFTER THE TRIBULATION to gather His elect in Matthew 24? How about when the bible says the antichrist will wear out the saints Daniel 7? How about when the bible says all those who were martyred and wouldn't take the mark of the beast will be resurrected and raptured by Jesus when He returns Revelation 20?
Again, without intention to be controversial, I realized that if one does not regard the church and Israel as two different entities, they would easily deny this rapture position.
Why do people think that God has a caste system? Do they seriously imagine that God is saying "Those OT believers were willing to die for me, but they believed too soon, so they are not my favorites. These others believed last, they are also willing to die for me, but they are not my bride, so they must suffer terribly. But THAT group, the one that falls in line with every whim and fad of society, no matter how clearly I have forbidden it, claims to heal back pain by playing the carnival scam of leg-pulling, and insists that my only desire is to lavish them with every earthly whim while winking at blatant sins...THAT group is my beloved. THAT is my bride. They will be spirited off the earth before the Beast can bruise their little pinkies." The "New Covenant" was promised to ABRAHAM. It was stated long before the church was formed. The Bride of YHVH is Israel. The betrothal contract was the Mosaic Covenant. "Israel was YHVH's bride, but God divorced her." - Pretribbles. No, Zechariah makes it crystal clear that it was a temporary setting aside. The remnant will be redeemed. "But the church is the bride of CHRIST not Yahweh." - Pretribbles. Actually, that is stated nowhere in the Bible. Paul does say that he wished to present the church as a pure bride. He also says that we are grafted INTO the root of Israel. SO, who is YHVH (Yahweh/I AM)? I always thought it was God the Father. BUT: THE ANGEL of the LORD spoke to Moses from the burning bush. When Moses asked THE ANGEL of the LORD to state His name, TAOTL replied, "I AM that I AM." (I AM WHAT I WILL BE/ YHVH/ YAHWEH) THE ANGEL of the LORD is seen several times in the Bible when a supernatural "man" is identified as God. Since no human can see God and live, these must be Christophanies. (Appearances of Jesus prior to his incarnation.) In other words, the God identified as YHVH, I AM, or Yahweh is God the SON! His bride is Israel. We, who believe get to be part of that.
exactly because the true Israel are those who receive the Messiah and not dependent on nationality and that's the promise we are grafted in to the original olive tree "and you shall be one flock with One Shepherd "
Thank you! It's so encouraging to see such an exegetical reading of revelation. My studies of the Olivet discourse and the letters to the Thessalonians and my reading of some parts of Revelation, guided by the Holy Spirit, of course, brought me to a pre-wrath rapture understanding, but your exposition has provided nuggets of context that fill in the pieces that were hazy for me. Bless you. I'm very encouraged, and I'm happily amazed by the magnificent unity of the truth of Scripture! Praise God! Maranatha!
I appreciate David's presentation and attempt to help people understand Scripture. I think there are many contradictions, however, to the prewrath position. 1. Notice David claims (correctly) that the first half of Daniel's 70th week is called "labor pains" by Jesus in Matthew 24:8. Paul uses the identical term in the Greek (odin) for "labor pains" in 1 Thess. 5:3. Problem: Paul links the labor pains to the "day of the Lord." This means the beginning of labor pains is the beginning of the day of the Lord and therefore God's wrath! This is why the pretribulation proponents are correct in asserting that the church is raptured at the very beginning of Daniel's 70th week (prior to the day of the Lord). 2. Key to the prewrath position is the idea that Antichrist's reign of 3 1/2 years will be cut short to less than that. They claim Matthew 24:22 teaches this. Problem: The apostle John teaches that antichrist reigns for 3 1/2 years in Revelation 13:5. This means that the prewrath position directly contradicts John's teaching in Revelation 13:5. This is why pretribulation proponents teach that the great tribulation is "cut short" to 3 1/2 years just as Daniel and John taught (cf. Dan. 7:25; 12:7; Rev. 12:14; 13:5). There is then no contradiction between Matthew 24:22 and John 13:5 in the pretribulation view. 3. The prewrath position claims the day of the Lord (and its associated wrath) is not present until after the 6th seal. Problem: Paul teaches that the day of the Lord comes while the unbelieving world is claiming they have "peace and safety" (1 Thess. 5:3). Peace and safety is removed by the 2nd seal! John wrote, "And another, a red horse, went out; and to him who sat on it, it was granted to take peace from the earth, and that men would slay one another; and a great sword was given to him" (Rev. 6:4). This is why pretribulation proponents teach that the entire 70th week of Daniel is God's wrath. 4. As I mentioned above, the prewrath position claims the day of the Lord's wrath does not begin until after the 6th seal. Problem: The fourth seal records four instruments of God's wrath: sword, famine, pestilence, and wild beasts (Rev. 6:8). This passage is a direct allusion to Ezekiel 14:19-21 where God poured out sword, famine, pestilence, and wild beasts on Jerusalem as instruments of His wrath. Why was it God's wrath when it was poured out upon Jerusalem, but it's not God's wrath when poured out on the world? This is another reason why pretribulation proponents teach the that the wrath of God is present during the entire 70th week. 5. The prewrath position claims that Daniel's 70th week and its associated tribulations will be the worst time period in human history. This is true (Matt. 24:21). The prewrath position claims, however, that this worst time period will be cut short by the day of the Lord which is the worst time period! You can't have two "worst" time periods! This is another reason why pretribulation proponents teach that the entire 70th week of Daniel is the day of the Lord. 6 David Rosenthal claims (as do other prewrath proponents) that the day of the Lord and its wrath begins after the 6th seal. Problem: The unregenerate claim that the day of God's wrath has come in Revelation 6:17 (6th seal). The aorist verb (erchomai) "has come" is a constative aorist that explains a past event. The unregenerate even understand at this point that the world has been experiencing the wrath of God. This is direct contradiction to David Rosenthal who claims the day of the Lord begins "after" the 6th seal. 7. The prewrath position claims that the day of the Lord is preceded by cosmic disturbances. Problem: There are a series of 5 cosmic disturbances throughout Daniel's 70th week. You have a cosmic disturbance at the 6th seal (Rev. 6:12), 4th trumpet (Rev. 8:12), 5th trumpet (Rev. 9:2), 4th bowl (Rev. 16:8), and after Daniel's 70th week according to Jesus in Matthew 24:29. Prewrath claims Matthew 24:29 and the 6th seal are synonymous. The problem: Jesus teaches this cosmic disturbance occurs after the 70th week is over! 8. Prewrath claims Joel 2:31 and Malachi 4:5 provide signs prior to the day of the Lord. Interestingly, both texts have the same phrase "great and terrible day of Yahweh." When one reads from Joel 2:31 through Joel 3:1-21, one realizes this "great and terrible day of Yahweh" is the narrow 24-hour day in which Messiah intervenes against the enemies surrounding Jerusalem (Zech 14:1-7). This is why Jesus cites the same text (Joel 2:31) in Mattew 24:29 because it is "immediately after the tribulation of those days." This is a reference to the end of Daniel's 70th week, not some point inside of it. Therefore, there are signs prior to what is called the "narrow day" of the Lord, but not before the broad day of the Lord which begins at the inception of Daniel's 70th week and extends unto eternity (2 Pet. 3:10). This is why pretribulation proponents rightly claim that the broad day of the Lord (beginning of Daniel's 70th week) comes like a thief (1 Thess. 5:2), and that the "narrow day of the Lord" (final battle at end of 7 years) is preceded by signs such as the Elijah like witness (Rev. 11) and cosmic disturbances (Joel 2:31; Mal. 4:5). 9 Prewrath claims the day of the Lord is preceded by signs, yet Paul says it comes "suddenly" and like a "thief." (1 Thess. 5:2-3). The term for thief (kleptes) is one which emphasizes stealth. The robber (lestes) uses force to get what he wants, but the thief (kleptes) uses stealth. How can the day of the Lord come without warning if there are signs that must occur first? How can the day of the Lord come suddenly when people have seen many signs prior that have tipped them off? Jesus uses Noah's day as the example of the onset of Daniel's 70th week (Matt. 24:37-39). The whole purpose of citing Noah's day is to give an example of the suddenness of the coming wrath. The writer of Hebrews wrote, "By faith Noah, being warned by God about things not yet seen, in reverence prepared an ark for the salvation of his household, by which he condemned the world, and became an heir of the righteousness which is according to faith" (Heb 11:7). Notice the writer of Hebrews states that Noah was "warned by God about things not yet seen." There were no signs for Noah or anyone else to see that God's wrath was coming. That's the way it will be at the onset of Daniel's 70th week. The only warning comes from the word of God. This is why Jesus said, "A wicked and adulterous generation seeks for a sign, but none will be given to it except the sign of Jonah" (Matt. 16:4). The only sign (sign of Jonah) refers to Christ's resurrection and cannot be visibly seen by us during the church age. This sign is only found by believing in what the Scriptures have said.
This is excellent presentation without any unnecessary distractions.. Will have to watch this over again and again as time permits.. Thank you, and may the Lord God Jesus continue to bless Zion's Hope Ministry financially, it takes a lot of time and effort to be a content creator on TH-cam.
Please compare Rev 14:14-20 to all Rapture verses. It is the 7th trumpet. The Harvest of the earth / compare to Matthew 13:24-30 and 13:37-43 Harvest at the End of the Age. Others: Joel 3:13 / Luke 21:27 / Matt 24:30 / 1 Thes 4:17 / Isaiah 24 / 1 Cor 15:51 / Jude 14 / Dan 7:13 / Rev 10: 6-7
Great presentation, very clear and concise. My understanding in regard to the last trump is that it is the trump of God not an angel blowing the trumpet and it is tied to the Jewish feasts.
The Resurrection of the church is at judgment day John 6 39-54 Jesus says at the Last day four times 1 Corinthians 15 Paul says the Resurrection of the dead four times before verse 51 Jesus is Truth Keep the Faith
Why is the day of the lord NOT a day, but 3.5 years? Is Jesus coming back early? and then leaving and coming back again? I don't see any proof or even an argument here.
It IS a DAY! Revelation 18.8--10; EXACTLY the DAY and the HOUR that Jesus said He did NOT know, because He said, "I have come, not to JUDGE the world, but to SAVE the world." John 12.47.
Thank you for another very clear and insightful teaching on this essential topic - really most appreciated, and only one mention of the word 'global' this time. Much preferred when you say 'world-wide'... (words are important) 🙂 Blessings aye.
When I was born again back in 1981, I was introduced to the pre-tribulation rapture as if it was absolute truth. Not knowing the Bible, I believed what I was taught. As I grew in the Word, I learned there were other views - but believed that the most popular view must be the right one - I also didn't think it was very important and certainly not critical to one's salvation. Then in 2013 I desided to study this topic for myself and commited to only examining the scriptures (vs commentaies, books, articles or videos) and prayed to the Father to lead me to the truth via the Holy Spirit. After several weeks of studying the prophetic scriptures I came to the reality that the scriptures teach a PRE-WRATH rapture. It was only after coming to this truth that I then began to discover pastors and Bible teachers who also hold to the Pre-Wrath rapture - many who also previously held to the Pre-trib rapture.
John Nelson Darby came up with the pre trib rapture in 1830. You can even look it up. It's history. It seems that many believers who hold to the pre trib rapture either just take what they're taught as absolute truth like you mentioned, or don't want to dig deeper bc pre trib rapture suits them better bc they want outta here before things get really bad. It wld be great if a pre trib rapture was true, but the teaching in this video & others I've listened to on Pre Wrath rapture make more sense regarding scripture. 🩷🧡💛💚💙🩵💜🤎
Many,many of them get beheaded. So I don't think he will be protecting them. The only thing he protects them from is His own wrath (by taking them in the rapture just before the wrath begins).
He is just quoting the bible..no one doubts the abilities of our protector ...and yes we will have the 144,000during his Wrath..they will be here on earth
@@gracealone89How do you know that we aren't in the Tribulation right now? One won't know until the 2nd 3½ year of the 7 week period. That is when the AntiChrist is revealed. There is a treaty already to build the 3rd Temple in Jerusalem. Israel already has the components to build the 3rd Temple
@@gracealone89If thats the case Christians would be taken prior to tribulations starting. The Pastor stated we, the bride, will be taken prior to God's wrath not prior to tribulations.
How do so many teachers forget about the MILLENIAL reign of Christ Jesus that is on the planet after the great tribulation. It's not the end of time, it's the end of the age of grace where judgment and justice with wrath on the wicked takes place. Many people will parish but they will live again in Christ. Why are we even spending so much time as believers trying to know more than what God revealed to us. We should be focusing on living like Jesus, which honestly none of us is doing very well. Just looking at the facts and the current state of the church, our country and the world. Christians are being distracted by things that don't matter. Jesus wants us to be the light and salt, spread the gospel. We're deceived, there are so many interpretations, that is how you know the obsession with the rapture is coming but not yet. We could be storing up treasure in heaven but we choose to debate and fight other believers in the body of Christ because we want our options and interpretations to be right. Preach the gospel, do the work, and don't let debates take your crown of glory in being distracted by timing. God is perfect and his timing is perfect. We know time is short, look around it's obvious. Family, we're wasting time. I beg of you, focus on the great comission. Pray for discernment and not to be deceived. Love you all, to God the Father and Christ Jesus be the glory and praise!
1 Thess 4:15 shows us that the rapture (i.e. those who are alive and remain) is handcuffed and hogtied to the resurrection (i.e. those who are asleep), and will not precede the resurrection. Jesus said (John 6:39,40,44,54) that the resurrection will be on the "last day". Therefore, the rapture will also be on the last day.
Yep. Back to back. I think that we can presume a rapture occurs along with the resurrection as described in Isaiah 26:19-21 just before the wrath of God commences. The resurrected and raptured will go into their chambers and shut their doors behind them, until the indignation is past. We've got something similar to the parable of the 10 virgins in Matthew 25 being described here in Isaiah 26. Doors are shut in Matthew 25:10.
This teaching will be with us ALWAYS, from the Book of the Revelation. When the Anti-Christ comes, the False prophet, the institution of the Image of the Beast, the flowering of the oppression of Mystery Babylon, and the "mark," like WAKING from a dream, it will be THEN that believers will realize that they had been deceived, in spite of Jesus' warning.
In Revelation 4:1 only one guy goes to heaven spiritually. Contrast that with Revelation 7:9 where there appears a great multitude in Heaven after the Sun and moon are darkened in the 6th seal. Which one sounds more like the rapture, Revelation 4:1 or Revelation 7:9?
They don't want to believe it. Rev 4:1 clearly says [the things of the tribulation "must" take place after "the things which are"], The things which are is the church. Rev. 1:19 says Write the things you have seen, the things which are and the things that will take take place after this. Or after the things of the church. After speaking of the signs leading up to His return in Lk 21 He tells us to "Pray always that you may be accounted worthy to escape all these things that will take place and to stand before the son of man. They will assure us that we will be protected even as rev 13: 7 tells us "It was granted to him(antichrist) to make war with the saints and to overcome them. And authority was given him over every tribe, tongue, and nation." Your probably aware of all this.
Question regarding the { beginning of sorrows}: that seems like it could possibly be much longer than only 3 1/2 years, how do you interpret this to be only 3 1/2 years, since the things described during the{beginning of sorrows} are things that have been already happening and gradually increasing and becoming more intense, could not therefore the {beginning of sorrows} period be much longer than only 3 1/2 years, perhaps even decades or more?
No because Daniel's 70th week is a week of 7 years only with the last 3-1/2 being the great tribulation and ending with The Day of the Lord, God's wrath.
By God’s grace, I’ve read through the Bible every year since 1998. I wish I could say that because I was a good Christian is why I did it, but it wasn’t it was because I wanted to understand Revelation. This position is the only one that needs no extra explanation, or no things to be focused on or ignored in order to make the position work. It also can be interpreted as pre, mid or post trib with just some minor, variations on definitions or circumstances, so it actually helps explain the other views existence. No one understood Jesus first coming completely before it happened, so I’m sure there’s things we don’t understand now, but this sure seems to fit.
Seeing that the Church is raptured at the end of the Sixth Seal (Revelation 6 and 7) and ushered to Heaven at that point, and that the Wrath of GOD (7 Trumpets and the 7 Bowls of suffering) commences from that moment on until the end of the remainder of the 7 year period, then what is Revelation 12 (7th Trumpet) referring to in the last verses of this chapter in which we read that the dragon (devil) goes after the Church in his anger?
Rev. 6 verses 12 & 13 those two verses are speaking of Satan when he imitates Christ's coming and then he-Satan will appear in the holy land-temple of God as God/Christ doing miracles tempting all He is Christ, the hour of temptation. Then the remaining verses in Rev. 6 it then fast forwards to the real Christ coming. Verses 12 & 13 are the constellation of Satan appearing as Christ when Satan appears as Christ the moon became blood-blood moon. Matthew 24 are the constellation of the real Christ, the real Christ comes the moon does not light because of the brightness of Christ. Just like the very first seal that rider on the white horse is Satan imitating Christ on His white horse in Rev. 19. The real Christ return will darken the sun, moon and stars as it is written in Isaiah chapter 13:10. But that's not until the last trump-trump of God after the tribulation ends... The rider on that white horse in that "first" seal is the fake Christ Satan, that bow he has is toxon in the Greek meaning a cheap fabric imitation, Satan imitating the rider on the white white horse Christ in Rev. chapter 19. You have to rightly divide the word and distinguish the positive from the negative. And a crown was given unto him because Satan is the king of Babylon in the end times, Babylon means confusion. Satan is the king of the bottomless pit Rev.9 and when Satan appears Christ-king in the holy land temple of God as Christ tempting the world he is Christ returned, the hour of temptation and the falling away.. Satan will appear in the Holy land-temple of God as Christ-looking like Christ on the woe of the 6th trumpet doing miracles, Ezekiel chapter 28 says Satan is very beautiful looking and also is a supernatural entity and able to disguise as an angel of light as written. Just like the "second" seal the red horse with the sword is like Christ sword in Rev. 19, but the opposite, instead of truth as Christ speaks it's lies coming out of Satan's mouth, a flood of lies Rev. chapter 12, deception and it will be spiritual war as well. In the "third" seal the black horse famine and as written in Amos chapter 8 the famine of the end times is not for food but for hearing the word of the Lord, look what is being taught out there now and there will be Satan's one world religion at that time-last half of the tribulation/hour of temptation. The "fourth" seal pale horse death which is another name for Satan Hebrews 2:14, and hell followed him and army follows Christ when He returns and Satan has his army of fallen angels that follow him as well when they are cast out of heaven to earth on the woe of the fifth trumpet Rev. chapters 9 & 12. In six seal in Rev. 6 you will have the repetition of the colors that were mention in the first four seals letting you know they take on there ultimate spiritual form at that time, it will be spiritual war, spiritual famine, spiritual death and Satan will have appeared as the false Christ at that time in the Holy land-temple of God.
There are some good questions and responses .keep reading the Word and keep praying fir wisdom and discernment..and don't forget love thy neighbor or you missed everything
The churches who are focusing on being raptured are not preparing the people to endure persecution. I am not talking about the tribulation. If you are expecting to be raptured and not expecting persecution you will fall away. There will be a falling away before any rapture will happen (2 Thess. 2:3). They fall away because they are deceived preparing themselves only for rapture instead of preparing themselves to endure to the end. Don't be blindsided by unexpected persecution and fall away. (Matthew 13)."...But he that received the seed into stony places, the same is he that heareth the word, and anon with joy receiveth it; yet hath he not root in himself, but dureth for a while: for when tribulation or persecution ariseth because of the word, by and by he is offended..." I remember hearing people say that when the so called rapture happens that there will be crashing cars and airplanes because some of the drivers and pilots will suddenly be taken away and the cars and planes will crash because there will be no one left to control them. This scenario will not happen and cannot happen because when the church of Philadelphia is translated the people will be assembled in a 24 hour sunset to sunset Trumpets convocation. Just like the 120 were in Acts chapter 2 for the Feast of Weeks. They will not be out and about driving cars and flying airplanes. “Blessed are those servants, whom the Lord when He comes shall find watching: verily I say unto you, that he shall gird himself, and make them to sit down to meat, and will come forth and serve them.” Some people say that they are watching all the time but they overlook verse 38. “And if he shall come in the second watch, or come in the third watch, and find them so, blessed are those servants.” (Luke 12:37-38). Under normal circumstances people are sound asleep during the second and third watch. Therefore Luke 12 is not talking about watching in a figurative way. The LORD is talking of a literal watch. There are appointed times in the scriptures for us to fulfill a literal watch. In fact, all of the appointed times of holy convocations (moedim) listed in Leviticus 23 are watches and vigils of Yahweh. Each one of them are fulfilled by both an Old Testament and corresponding New Testament historical event. In other words they will be assembled together in a holy convocation and not out and about driving cars and flying airplanes. Like the 120 were assembled in the upper room Acts chapter 2 for the Feast of Weeks (Pentecost). Unfortunately, because of a man-made ecclesiastical calendar many will not be watching at the appointed time.
The people preaching a post-trib doctrine are setting up all their friends and family for serious hardship because they are lying to them that there is no pre-trib rapture. Then when it occurs, those in their circle who are not believers are going to be severely upset that they didn't share the correct gospel story and left them on the planet to deal with all the judgments of God. You lose the ability to be a great witness in whatever months/ years we have left.
@@seanc2788 post tribbers expect to go through the tribulation so prepared for whatever is ahead, pre tribbers are not sticking to what the Bible tells them when the rapture time frame is, they ignore it and weave in fantasies about a secret rapture and a ticket out of here, no persecution whatsoever for them, have they forgotten how all but 1 of the Messiahs disciples were martyred for their faith, what about Christians in the arenas with lions? Burned at the stake? Revelation 13:7 the beast is given permission by God to war with the saints, the saints and the church are the same, Believers. The righteousness of the in fine clean white linen are the same saints. Daniel 7:21 the horn made war with the saints and prevailed against them. 22: until the Ancient of days came, and judgement was given to the saints of the most high, and the time came that the saints possessed the Kingdom. We are exempt from Gods wrath, but not Satans. We are told to endure to the end. How are you showing your faith by expecting a free pass out of here, different then any other Christian. Matthew 24:13 the one who endures to the end will be saved.
Well said!!...only in dumbed down westernized America does church think they are immune to persecution, even while it's happening in many parts of world...duhhh
So why doesn’t scripture, Revelation, tell us that at the 7th Trumpet is sounded, when it tells us all that will happen, we need to guess that the rapture will be included?
@@JacquelineCopeland-zp7sjhow do you get a 7 year tribulation from the phrase “hour of trial“? If the pre trib rapture were so true then why did Jesus never mention it?
The rapture happens after the 6th seal when the sun and moon are darkened. Read Revelation 7:9. This the same as Matthew 24:29 and Nark 14:24. There is no Rapture in Revelation 11 during the 7th trumpet
I don’t understand how the explanation of these verses are constantly overlooked “And I will give power unto my two witnesses, and they shall prophesy a thousand two hundred and threescore days, clothed in sackcloth. These are the two olive trees, and the two candlesticks standing before the God of the earth.” Revelation 11:3-4 It literally tells us who the two witnesses are: the 2 olive trees and the 2 candlesticks - challenge yourself to do a deep dive into these 2 things mentioned - you won’t come to the conclusion of Moses and Elijah
Agree with all of this and this is also what my church teaches too. I have been watching your videos along with others for a few years and believe pre-wrath is most Bibilical position. However, just had one question pertaining to 'day of the Lord' for the following verse, 4:17 Then they who are alive, shall be caught up together into the clouds with them who remain, to meet the Lord in the air; and so shall we be ever with the Lord. How does this verse reconcile with [raptured church] being the great multitude in Rev. 7? That's the only thing I am just curious about. I'm an amateur, so it could be something obvious I have missed! Blessings to you and your wonderful ministry.
The simple meaning of 1 Thess 4:15-17 is that those of us who believe in Christ, and remain (Strongs Concordance Greek word - περιλείπω; transliteration - perileipomai; meaning - to survive) at His coming, are those who have survived the persecution of the anti-christ during the Great Tribulation. Now at some point, the Great Tribulation (anti-Christ's persecution of ALL believers in Christ) has got to end and the Day of the Lord (destruction of ALL non-believers) begins. If you read Rev 6:17, it says that "for the great day of their wrath has come and who can stand?" Whose wrath? God's wrath on the wicked. Since we (ALL believers) are not appointed to God's wrath, all believers in Christ (the dead and the living) are caught up together (I do not like the word "rapture") to Heaven before His wrath begins.
Important to note is that the chapters in the book of Revelation tell a complete story but they are not necessarily sequential or chronological.....but when scripture is used to interpret scripture, then the whole gestalt forms.
You ready for the real secret to 1 Thess 4:16-17? Okay here it is. It has nothing to do with the Tribulation. All these so-called people who have studied the Bible don't understand basic Christianity. When Adam sinned he lost 3 things: 1) His spiritual life. That happened instantly 2) His physical life. That happened after 930 years. 3) His dominion over the earth. He allowed Satan and his henchmen to come in here and disrupt the rightful order of man's dominion over the activities of the planet. That is why Satan runs the world governments and the kingdoms of this planet. So Jesus came, as the Second Adam to redeem all that Adam had lost. 1) He redeemed your spiritual life at Calvary. The moment you accept him as Lord you become spiritually alive. When you die your soul goes to heaven. But your physical body still dies. Last time I checked man still goes back into the ground. So clearly that has not been redeemed. Satan is still ruling this planet. As far as I can tell there is a ton of wickedness all over the place. So clearly that has not been redeemed yet. So when do the other two issues get redeemed? Enter 1 Thess 4:16-17. First those who are in heaven will get their bodies reunited with their souls (verse 16). Then we who are alive, will get caught up in the air to meet those who are in heaven. We get our bodies transformed mid-flight. 1 Cor 15:52 in a blink of an eye. The rapture is simply what redeems your physical life. All the saints of God get their immortal incorruptible bodies so that we can go between heaven and earth. The rapture has nothing to do with salvation. That work was already done at Calvary. So it has nothing to do with how tough you are standing up for Jesus. When does the earth get redeemed? After all, Jesus says the meek shall inherit the earth. It belongs to those who are raptured in 1 Thess 4:16-17. there is only one problem. There are a ton of wicked people and Satan and his buddies all still hanging around the earth. They don't want to leave. How do they get removed? Over a 7 year period called the Tribulation. The 21 judgments are designed to systematically remove kingdoms and wicked people from the planet. In fact when you actually walk through Revelation correctly and you do the math, you see that nearly 99% of the population is killed. There is just a small group of Jews and a handful of people from every nation left to repopulate the earth during the Millennial Reign. And if 99% of the population is killed how does God decide who gets raptured and who lives to enter the Millennial Reign as a mortal? Because you have to have both for the Reign to be realistic. Does God play favorites? I don't think so. I think 1 Thess 4:16-17 is the one event that everyone goes together. It can't be at the end because there is no one left "alive to get caught up." At least not enough to fulfill the great multitudes that no one can count. God is a God of order. He already redeemed our spiritual life. The physical life must be redeemed before the eviction process of the earth begins. Christians don't repopulate the earth, we rule over the mortals who rebuild. So the logical order is that it comes at the beginning of the Tribulation.
The trump of God, the trumpet Jesus blows to send the angels to gather the elect, the "last trumpet" is a reference to Zechariah 9:14-16. It is God who blows the trumpet there, not an angel. Paul taught out of the Old Testament, not out of dreams or visions. Jesus also referred to this passage in the Olivet Discourse, hence the illustration of His coming being like lightning, because it refers back to Zechariah 9 where the Lord's arrow goes forth as lightning.
THE proof of the pre-trib rapture: Who does John see upon arriving at the throne room of the universe? "And round about the throne were four and twenty seats: and upon the seats I saw four and twenty elders sitting, clothed in white raiment; and they had on their heads crowns of gold." (Rev. 4:4 KJV) And who are these elders? There's no need to speculate....they proclaim their identity in 5:9-10. "And they sung a new song, saying, Thou art worthy to take the book, and to open the seals thereof: for thou wast slain, and hast redeemed us to God by thy blood out of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation; And hast made us unto our God kings and priests: and we shall reign on the earth." Now who will be in heaven singing of having been redeemed by the blood of the Lamb? There's a clue in their song....note the pronouns "us" and "we." ('Jeopardy" theme plays) THE CHURCH!! John is looking at the glorified church who are wearing the white robes and crowns they were given at the Bema Seat Judgment AFTER the rapture. And since, at this point, our Lord is just now rising to take the title deed to the earth and begin to break the seals, the 7 years of Jacob's Trouble has yet to begin. Since none other than the Apostle John taught (as shown to him by the Holy Spirit) of a pre-trib rapture, I'm going to take his word for it.
The reward is given in Rev 11:18, that is when the kingdoms of this world become the Kingdom of the Lord, and He begins to reign. The 24 elders are OT Saints resurrected with Christ, the elders of the church in Heaven, which reign with Christ, the root of the natural olive tree of Israel. They and the 4 creatures sing a song and glorify Christ. The 24 elders are NOT of the group of the NT Saints, nowhere in revelation. The "us" is added and the "we" is changed, the older manuscripts say they and them.
Yea, brother. You're so right. We're looking to and for Jesus, not the Antichrist. We could never attain anything more than the gift of His grace in saving us from sin by proving (works of the flesh) our faith in the tribulation of the 70th week when we say NO to the mandate and lose our heads. Most people will say YES. Why? Because we're human and we have doctorates in failures, each and every one of us. Let nobody fool you. Talk to someone you know well that was involved in all-out war. He will tell you how the brave of today can falter and cry like a coward tomorrow. We don't have guarantees when we think about our weak flesh. I've hung-in-there 'till my "jaws" broke off and it mattered not - I gained nothing of true value because of my prideful tenacity or whatever horrible thing it was! We are KNOWN by our Father in heaven, and He will return for us at exactly the moment He had ordained from the beginning. Our personal rapture is imminent either way i.e. we die, we gone. This struggle we call life is worth the while and everything we do in the Spirit counts (in heaven) as long as we forget ourselves and keep looking to Jesus! Maranatha!
The elders are not the church, at most they represent the church. They are most often associated with the living creatures, which are equally mysterious but most like angelic beings from a reading of the OT. The song the elders sing in Rev 5 is poorly translated to use the word "us" in the KJV, but that word is not there in other translations. Also in Rev 5, the elders hold the prayers of the saints, which men wouldn't do.
The tribulation does not even begin until Chapter 6 starts. The group in verses 9-11 are the same folks as those in chapter 7.9-17 and chapter 19.1-10.
There are no bible verses says that rapture will come before tribulation. According to Jesus in Mathew 24 :21..For then there will be great tribulation....and at the end of tribulation in verse 29.... Immediately after the tribulation... Then the rapture in verse 31....same in Revelation 20:4 the tribulation and the First Resurrection (rapture)in verse 5... Those descriptions from Jesus points out that tribulation will happen before rapture.....if Jesus knew that rapture will come before tribulation, why He told the Judea to flee to the mountains in Mathew 24:16...also why God prepared a place in the wilderness in Revelation 12:6,14-16,if the rapture comes before tribulation????. People read your bible before you listen to people....
I _HAVE_ read my bible before listening to people and this is what I have concluded from my studies. Jesus is _not_ referring to the rapture in Matthew 24:31. He was, by his own confession, sent _only_ to the lost sheep of Israel. Notice that he was telling the Jews about things that concern _them_ and not the gentiles - to flee to the mountains in Judea, to pray that it won't occur during the sabbath, and so on. So why would he suddenly confuse them by referring, in plain language, to a rapture of the gentile church - something that was a mystery scheduled to be revealed decades later by Paul? Although it doesn't have as much impact on us today, what Jesus was speaking about was something that the Jews would have _immediately_ recognized. Why? Partly because unlike gentiles living today these people were expecting a very important old testament prophecy to be fulfilled, and partly because throughout scripture idioms such as "the four winds", "four quarters", and the "four corners of the earth" were used to reference the four directions to which the lost sheep of Israel were scattered, and from which they were also to be regathered. They were *SCATTERED* in four directions: "I will bring against Elam the *four winds* from the four quarters of heaven; I will *scatter them to the four winds,* and there will not be a nation where Elam’s exiles do not go." (Jeremiah 49:36) And "Come! Come! Flee from the land of the north," declares the Lord, "for I have *scattered you to the four winds of heaven,"* declares the Lord." (Zechariah 2:6) They will be *GATHERED* from four directions: "Do not be afraid, for I am with you; I will bring your children *from the east.* and gather you *from the west.* I will say *to the north,* ‘Give them up!’ and *to the south,* ‘Do not hold them back.’" (Isaiah 43:5-6) And "He will raise a banner for the nations and gather the exiles of Israel; he will *assemble the scattered people of Judah from the four quarters of the earth."* (Isaiah 11:12) When God sent the people of Israel into exile he promised them that after a period of time ALL the tribes of Israel would eventually be returned to their land. "I will surely gather *_all of you,_* Jacob; I will surely bring together the remnant of Israel. I will bring them together like sheep in a pen, like a flock in its pasture; the place will throng with people." (Micah 2:12) And "Then they will know that I am the Lord their God, for though I sent them into exile among the nations, I will gather them to their own land, *not leaving any behind"* (Ezekiel 39:28) Since this has not happened yet, we can only assume that it HAS to happen in the end times, otherwise God would be a liar. And notice that when it does happen a "great trumpet" will be blown: "And *in that day a great trumpet will sound.* Those who were perishing in Assyria and *those who were exiled in Egypt will come and worship the Lord on the holy mountain in Jerusalem."* (Isaiah 27:13) Now with that in mind, notice how the events that Jesus lists in Matthew 24:29-31 line up closely with what we see in Revelation 6:12-7:1-8 - in exactly the same sequence: MATTHEW: The sun and moon turn dark (Matthew 24:29) REVELATION: "The sun turns black ... the moon turns blood red" (Revelation 6:12) MATTHEW: The stars fall from the sky (Matthew 24:29) REVELATION: ".. and the stars in the sky fell to earth, " (Revelation 6:13) MATTHEW: All the tribes of the earth grieve (Matthew 24:30) REVELATION: "Then the kings of the earth, the princes, the generals, the rich, the mighty, and everyone else, both slave and free, hid in caves and among the rocks of the mountains. They called to the mountains and the rocks, “Fall on us and hide us from the face of him who sits on the throne and from the wrath of the Lamb! For the great day of their wrath has come, and who can withstand it?" (Revelation 6:13) So if these things correspond to what Jesus said in Matthew 24:29-30 then the next event on the list we would expect to see in Revelation is the "gathering of the elect from the four winds." Right? This my friend is _exactly_ what we see: "After this I saw four angels standing at the *four corners of the earth,* holding back the *four winds of the earth* to prevent any wind from blowing on the land or on the sea or on any tree. Then I saw another angel coming up from the east, having the seal of the living God. He called out in a loud voice to the four angels who had been given power to harm the land and the sea: "Do not harm the land or the sea or the trees until we put a seal on the foreheads of the servants of our God." Then I heard the number of those who were sealed: 144,000 from *ALL the tribes of Israel."* (Revelation 7:1-4) This is not the rapture, but the regathering of the lost tribes of Israel.
@paulbrennan4163 read Revelation 20 the tribulation come first in verse 4 and the First Resurrection (rapture) in verse 5...my point according to Jesus tribulation come before rapture. ..your long comment does not explain that rapture come first....
@@paulbrennan4163read Revelation 20 the tribulation come first in verse 4,then the first Resurrection (rapture) at verse 5....same as Mathew 24:21-31....your long comment doesn't point out that rapture will come before tribulation, maybe you don't understand what you reading.....so pre tribulation rapture have no bible proofs. Also if Jesus knew that rapture will come before tribulation why he told the Judea to flee to the mountains,because the rapture will come after the tribulation. Hope you understand now...
David, your father, Marvin missed a few things, and now you are missing the same things. Most bible students think "the tribulation" or the 70th Week of Daniel begins at the 1st seal. That is incorrect and is pulling the first seal out of its early church context. The truth is, just as your dad wrote, that the rapture must come just before the 6th seal start of God's wrath. Sadly, your father tried to move the 6th seal from where John placed it-between the 5th and 7th seals. In Revelation 4 and 5, we see first (chapter 4) the Holy Spirit still in the throne room, then in chapter 5 Jesus ascension and Him sending the Holy Spirit down as soon as He arrived back in the throne room. Jesus ascended around 32 AD, entered the throne room, and went, right then, to take the book from the Father and began, right then, to open the first seals. The first seal, opened around 32 AD aligns with the great commission. It is to represent the CHURCH taking the GOSPEL to the world. Seals 2, 3, and 4 are to represent the devil's attempts to stop the advance of the gospel. God has allowed Satan to use wars, famines, pestilences and wild beasts in his attempts. Seal 5 is for the martyrs of the church age. They want to know when God will judge their murders, but are told that the time of judgment must wait for the FINAL church age martyr. In short, that is a huge hint to the time of the rapture, which will come just before the 6th seal start of wrath. Both your father and Robert Van Kampen believed that the rapture and the Day of the Lord will be back-to-back events. I also believe that. It fits what John wrote at the 5th and 6th seals. With all that said, the 70th will will then begin a few days later at the opening of the 7th seal and with the first trumpet. Once God told me (in what seemed like an audible voice) that He has MARKED the entire 70th week. I found His markers: He marked the 70th week with SEVENS: the 7th seal begins the week, the 7th trumpet marks the midpoint and the week will end at the 7th bowl. Since 6 comes before 7 in counting, we can KNOW the rapture will be pre-trib: it will come just before God's wrath begins at the 6th seal, with the "tribulation" or 70th week beginning at the 7th seal. We can KNOW the rapture will be pre-trib because 7 comes before 8 in counting. John saw the church safely in heaven in Revelation 7, and then wrote of the start of the Week in chapter 8. The theory that the Day of the Lord will not begin until somewhere in the middle of the last half of the 70th Week is nothing but imagination. It is one of the seals sealing the BOOK, and the trumpet judgments (probably the entire 70th week) are written INSIDE the book. It is absolutely impossible to move a seal to anywhere else. They have been and will continue to be opened in sequence. Van Kampen TOTALLY MISSED IT when he imagined that all references to the sun turning dark were of ONE SINGLE event. The truth is, the sun will turn black, like it does in a total eclipse, as a sign for the start of the DAY: Revelation 6. But in Matthew 24, when the sun is "darkened," Strong tells us that if it is used for heavenly bodies, it means the absence of light-in other words, total darkness. This is the sign for Christ's coming to Armageddon-in Revelation chapter 19. Again, the sign for God's wrath and the DAY of His wrath is in Revelation 6. These two signs, total eclipses first, then seven years later total darkness, are for two very different events.
We MUST let the scriptures speak for themselves. Jesus asks the Father that we might all be one. John 17. The Church cannot be found in Heaven in Revelation 5. Read it! Chapter 6.9-11 is the same Church as 7.9-17, and as 19.1-10. Read these! There is NO pre-trib rapture. Jesus calls the shots! Mt. 24.29-31.
There are scriptures supporting all four rapture perspectives. My final conclusion is to be mindful of all options as we don’t know which perspective the Lord will choose. He does say that nobody knows when and that it will be a surprise/ unexpected just like in the time of Noah.
In the times of Noah it was referring to the Unbelievers not being aware, We are aware because we study God's word, it also didn't come as a thief in the night to Noah because he spent years building the ark and so was prepared.
There are 2 catching ups pre for the church post for the jews when Christ returns after the trib. If you die now you will have your own private pre trib rapture.
The purpose of the tribulation, the purpose of the rapture, the meaning of 1 Thessalonians 5:9, and the interpretation of Revelation 3:10 all give clear support to the pre-tribulational position. If the Bible is interpreted literally and consistently, the pre-tribulational position is the most biblically-based interpretation. The timing of the rapture in relation to the tribulation is one of the most controversial issues in the church today. The three primary views are pre-tribulational (the rapture occurs before the tribulation), mid-tribulational (the rapture occurs at or near the mid-point of the tribulation), and post-tribulational (the rapture occurs at the end of the tribulation). A fourth view, commonly known as pre-wrath, is a slight modification of the mid-tribulational position. First, it is important to recognize the purpose of the tribulation. According to Daniel 9:27, there is a seventieth “seven” (seven years) that is still yet to come. Daniel’s entire prophecy of the seventy sevens (Daniel 9:20-27) is speaking of the nation of Israel. It is a time period in which God focuses His attention especially on Israel. The seventieth seven, the tribulation, must also be a time when God deals specifically with Israel. While this does not necessarily indicate that the church could not also be present, it does bring into question why the church would need to be on the earth during that time. The primary Scripture passage on the rapture is 1 Thessalonians 4:13-18. It states that all living believers, along with all believers who have died, will meet the Lord Jesus in the air and will be with Him forever. The rapture is God’s removing of His people from the earth. A few verses later, in 1 Thessalonians 5:9, Paul says, “For God did not appoint us to suffer wrath but to receive salvation through our Lord Jesus Christ.” The book of Revelation, which deals primarily with the time period of the tribulation, is a prophetic message of how God will pour out His wrath upon the earth during the tribulation. It seems inconsistent for God to promise believers that they will not suffer wrath and then leave them on the earth to suffer through the wrath of the tribulation. The fact that God promises to deliver Christians from wrath shortly after promising to remove His people from the earth seems to link those two events together. Another crucial passage on the timing of the rapture is Revelation 3:10, in which Christ promises to deliver believers from the “hour of trial” that is going to come upon the earth. This could mean two things. Either Christ will protect believers in the midst of the trials, or He will deliver believers out of the trials. Both are valid meanings of the Greek word translated “from.” However, it is important to recognize what believers are promised to be kept from. It is not just the trial, but the “hour” of trial. Christ is promising to keep believers from the very time period that contains the trials, namely the tribulation. The purpose of the tribulation, the purpose of the rapture, the meaning of 1 Thessalonians 5:9, and the interpretation of Revelation 3:10 all give clear support to the pre-tribulational position. If the Bible is interpreted literally and consistently, the pre-tribulational position is the most biblically-based interpretation. www.gotquestions.org/rapture-tribulation.html
There is NO pre-tribulational Rapture in ALL of scripture! If ANYONE is a believer, it will become readily apparent just as soon as the Anti-Christ is revealed at the 5th seal, and chapter 13 begins. (2Thessalonians 2.1-17) Jesus destroys him in the Lake of Fire in Revelation 19.11-21 and Isaiah 63.1-6.
If the pre-wrath rapture is scriptural, then where does the Dispensation of Grace ends? Obviously at almost the end of the 70th Week of Daniel? So the special Dispensation of the Tribulation begins at the Day of the Lord or when the Rapture takes place?
When you date Revelation is KEY. Because it's either about the destruction of Jerusalem in 70 AD or it's about the end of all things. It makes a huge difference in how you live your life. We should be looking for the return of our Lord period, none of this other guesswork. Just be ready and do not be deceived.
Take note: The KEY TIME FACTOR here is WHEN the appearance of the 2 WITNESSES/Prophets of God in relation to the 7-year Tribulation... The TIME allotted for them to Preach is 3.5 years (1260 Days) + 3.5 Days (their death/resurrection) =1263.5 Days and then, they will be taken to Heaven by God... If they start in the Middle of the 7-year Tribulation, they will go beyond by 3.5 days after the Tribulation has ended... therefore, the 1st RESURRECTION and RAPTURE will take place while the 2 Witnesses are still Preaching until the Wrath of God comes in while they are still Preaching till the End... but does not make any sense that the CHURCH is gone, while the 2 Witnesses are still preaching to finish the allotted time given by God. logically speaking...
No sense listening to this as he starts off totally wrong. To say that determining when the day of the Lord starts, is the key to when the rapture happens. He, like so many people, equates the 2ed coming of Jesus with the rapture. The rapture is NOT a coming of Jesus, it is an appearing. The key to the rapture is 2 Thessalonians chapter 2. Paul never gives any sign prior to the rapture. These post trib, pre-wrath people tell you that Jesus for told all the signs prior to the rapture, which is actually only His 2ed coming. So it comes down to who do you believe ? Jesus who actually never SPOKE about a rapture. Or Paul who spells it out completely in 1 Thes 4:13. I think I will go with the only guy who actually revealed it to us.
Sorry, I’m making comments as I go 😁 . I mentioned this in my previos post, but the trumpets have to start at the 3 1/2 year mark in order for the 2 witnesses to finish their ministry. How does the pre-wrath reconcile this point?
If the 2 witnesses are preaching from the Temple mount all during the first half when the Temple is being rebuilt (and the A/C goes into the Temple at the midpoint), then they are killed around the midpoint. I think the Rapture could happen when they are raised to life 3 1/2 days after being killed (and after the Abom of Des).
1 Thess 4:14 God brings with him the believers who have died, (that will be the souls, to be reunited with their body and then on to transformation). This ressurection is called the 1st resurrection. This occurence is referenced in Rev 20:5, and it happens at the beginning of the millennium. (That would be the end of the trib.)
QUESTIONS:... In Matt. 24:22 narrates that, if the Great Troubles/Tribulation (AntiChrist Persecution) will not be cut short (shortened), there will be no survivor from the People of God... Q1?... When the Dreadful Day of the Lord comes (Wrath of God/Day of the Lord) will there be survivors from the Evil People? Q2?... Surel;y there will be LEFT BEHIND People without the Mark of the Beast (both Christians and Non-Christians) after the Rapture Event, will they all survive the Wrath of God? Q3?... Who will fight the Battle of Armageddon at the Foot of Mt. Megiddo, Israel... Immortal People of God ...VS... Mortal People of Satan?... it seems NO MATCH since the People of God will never taste the "Second Death."... even Satan knew it would be a waste of time... Q4?... If Satan knew very well ahead of time that the Battle of Armageddon had no chance for him to win (Immortal VS. Mortal Combat), logically speaking, why fight the battle that has no literal chance to win?... that is called SUICIDE for all Mortal Men, Q5?... How could you send your mortal men into the battlefield knowing they will all die for they are NO MATCH with the IMMORTAL People of God? Q6?... How can Mortal Men fight the Immortal Men if they will never taste the Second Death?... Even if Satan gives more power to the Mortal Men, in the end, they will be defeated 100% Perhaps it is not about Winning the Battle of Armageddon and Gog at Magog after the Millenial Reign of Christ... for Satan knew the MISMATCH already ahead of time... but to bring more people to Hell with Him and His Angels, that is Satan's winning victory / crowning glory and not the battle itself... I hope and pray that my family and I will not be LEFT BEHIND, but if I am, I pray that no loved ones be by my side, for Satan will use them against my Freewill, for I am already preparing and preconditioning my Heart, Mind, Soul, and Strength to freely DIE without a fight for Spiritual Cause of my Soul... Praise be to God in Christ... Amen
There were a lot of days of noah. Christ only mention the verse you quoted. He didn't include when noah boarded the arc & closed the door. Just what was happening during the days of noah. In other words not what happened to noah, , but was happening when noah lived
I have been pre-wrath for 30 years due to a day of the Lord/Christ's coming study that was prompted by a tape set of your father's on Thessalonians. I do have to disagree on the time of great tribulation not being worldwide. This is due to Rev 3:10 (which pre-tribbers misuse), Rev 13:7, 16-17. Of course we don't know if there will be much if anything left of countries outside the middle east by then either, so...
I am a pre-wrath teacher myself, but I would like to hear from other pre-wrath brethren, and explanation of Matthew 1324 through 30 And 37 through 43 Jesus bless!
Brother..the Jesus quoted the Rapture on Matthew 24:29-31..John quotes it in Revelation 6:12..the sun being darkened,moon being turned into blood,after the days are shortened.After the Rapture,we see the wrath of God starts in Revelation6:18..Revelation 7 is when the 7 th seal is opened but just before that in Revelation 7:1-3 we hear the 4 Angels who were send by Jesus in Matthew 24 :31 also sealing the Foreheads of the 144,000 who will be here on earth ministering during the 7 plagues/vials of Gods wrath.They are also mentioned in Revelation 9:4 the 144,000. In Revelation Chapter 7:9 John takes us back to heaven after the sealing of the 144,000 to show us what is happening there..in Revelation 7:13 he reveals that Christians were killed in the Great tribulation...The 7 plagues are also quoted in Revelation chapter 15:1-2 while we are in heaven worshipping before the throne THE second coming is in Revelation 19:11,the judgement of the Righteous who will rule with Jesus is on revelation 20:4 followed by the Millennial kingdom.Thats my understanding..be blessed
*WRATH is AAAAAAFTER the 7th Trumpet, so saith:* #1)The 24 Elders, *Rev.11:15-*18-19* #2)The Holy Spirit inspired John, *Rev.15:1, 7* #3)THE VOICE from THE Temple, *Rev.16:1* *Rev.6:*17 is AAAAAAFTER the 6th Seal is opened and are the words of FEARFUL *men** which contradict the 3 Witnesses of Scripture posted above. *JUDGEMENT of the people of Earth* comes AAAAAAFTER the number of MARTYRS is completed, **Rev.6:9-11* which comes AAAAAAFTER the first 3 1/2 years: *Dan.**7:25**-27* *Dan.12:*7* *Rev.13:*7*
@@Jacobbethel If you KNEW the scriptures, you would know that the Wrath of God is EXPLICITLY STATED as the 6th seal, in Revelation 6.12-17, and DETAILED in all of chapter 18.
Mr. Rosenthal, Marvin, did he go to be with the Lord last year? Great life and mission that we still celebrate! Only bummer is that 70 didn't take off yet, Lord's will letting! I owe him, David and the Staff there! Soundest Biblical position on the Rapture that's out there!
The bible is VERY clear that we ALL go through tribulation and must persevere THROUGH it. We are NOT saved FROM it! That is Dispensational theology to think that we are saved before tribulation. Example: Noah was saved by going THROUGH the flood and was not spared FROM it. That is a foreshadowing of the end times. See 1 Thessalonians 4:15-17. The bible supports a post-trib view. It does not support a pre-trib view. The book of Revelation describes 7 plagues, not 7 years of tribulation. The 7 plagues happen in a span of about 1 year.
Thank you so much for the simple way of explaining this. I already read your father's book, and I also met him, and he was wonderful, chatting with me in the 90's, in Toronto. He was in the middle of writing a sequel to The Prewrath Rapture Of The Church book, about the foolish and the wise virgins. I'm not sure if he finished the book or not. God bless you!
I don't think I can listen to this I used to believe it but the Bible is very clear. One resurrection of believers and one second coming. The return of Jesus is the same thing as a rapture. God's judgment is not going to affect believers but we will be here until the second coming.
Sorry but this is clear as mud to me. Birth pangs are happening now but you show them fitting within tribulations first half only? And how can you cut the 2nd 3-1/2 years in half when God clearly said 1260 days on BOTH sides of tribulation? Non of this is adding up for me.
What is the biblical explanation of the teaching of the 144,000 so late on the tribulation time line? Second, are you teaching the literal “Day” of the Lord or do you believe it to be a season of time? Thanks
The post trib pre wrath position is that God's wrath is poured out after the tribulation for a period of time, not one literal day; and it will culminate with Armageddon and the beginning of the millennial reign, thus signifying the end of Daniel's 70th week. The 144,000 preach the gospel after the great tribulation, just before or during the outpouring of God's wrath. Those who believe the gospel and survive the outpouring of God's wrath go into the millennium in physical, non-glorified bodies because they missed the post tribulational, pre wrath gathering of the saints. Post trib, post wrath believers believe the day of the LORD to be one literal day.Hope this helps. God bless you, Ken.
Okay, trying to understand your idea, we will meet Christ in the clouds, then go before his judgement seat, then be immediately placed into his army to join him for the battle of Armageddon? He tells us he will go to prepare a place for us, in your mind, where does he prepare them? How long will we remain there? I’m very confused.
Could the argument also be made that Paul himself had not yet been " caught up in the 3rd Heaven!" When he wrote : 1 Corinthians 15:51-52 NIV [51] Listen, I tell you a mystery: We will not all sleep, but we will all be changed- [52] in a flash, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, the dead will be raised imperishable, and we will be changed.
Post Trib, pre wrath…sure. If you separate the two…But we’re still gonna be here with immortal bodies. We’re gonna be here through it all…but we will be changed at his return, then the wrath is poured out.
I have been a pre tribulationist for 50 years. Last week, I finally had to admit that pre wrath lines up perfectly with scripture. Now scripture makes more sense to me. Ad so now I am listening to pre wrath teachings like this one. I had never been interested nor ever listened to any other teachings other than pre trib until today.
I'm pretty new to prewrath as well but realize after studying it, that it makes so much more sense!
I am recently saved and have absolutely been consuming all content I can regarding the Bible and i've been reading it vigorously as well. However, I've been really struggling with the post, mid and pre-tribulation rupture. Because each one of them I found scripture that did sit well with me in regards to complicating them. However, this is the first I've heard of a pre wrath rupture and I've listened to this sermon 3 times already today. Aswell, gone through my Bible and it seems to fit the best in my mind. I will continue to study and pray on the matter but I'm very happy Ifound this sermon.
Listen to the late Robert Van Kampen. He offers a very compelling argument as well for a pre wrath rapture.
@@ObeyJesusOurLord thank you!
Keep reading your Bible, the answers are there. Falling away is not necessarily the "rapture". Apostasy is not rapture.
Look brother, people want you to think one is heresy or something over the other
The truth is, if it's pre trib and you aren't lukewarm, you will rapture.
If it's mid trib/pre wrath, you will die for your faith or rapture before God's wrath
Either of those is correct and both positions are extremely tough to debate.
There will be a falling away of the church(is it because persecution?)
Many will be deceived
I believe in pre trib, but am ready to endure mid trib and post trib. Just be ready for anything. People who are 100% set on the pretrib might be thinking 'I won't be here' and if it doesn't come to pass, they might be the ones who lose faith.
This makes the Bible so much clearer. The Lord showed me that pre wrath was the correct belief but I could never make sense of the 144,00. Thank you so much - love your teaching !!!!!
Thank you so much. The best and clear explanation I have heard in 25 years since I became born again . God bless you greatly! Shalom
When I was 7 years old my church did a huge month long teaching on the tribulation and played a film teaching the pretrib rapture. I remember as the pastor red through Revalation , and he would explain what the verses mean. I kept thinking “ But that’s not what the scripture says.” I thank you for this teaching because it’s so needed.
Mt 24: 21 For then there will be "great tribulation", such as has not been since the beginning of the world until this time, no, nor ever shall be. 22 And unless those days were shortened, no flesh would be saved;... Tribulation and wrath are interchangeable with each other. You can see that in this verse. Your told we are not appointed to wrath and wrath doesn't start until (fill in the blank).
The King James versions show the church before the throne prior to the opening of the first seal.
We don't want to be of those who delay their Master's coming, Mk 13:35 Watch therefore, for you do not know when the master of the house is coming-in the evening, at midnight, at the crowing of the rooster, or in the morning- lest, coming suddenly, he find you sleeping. 37 And what I say to you, I say to all: Watch!”
This is what I had studied and understood..I have been trying to teach it online on TikTok amidst fight and anger..thank you for revealing this though the Holy spirit
Have been following for 15 years. This is without a doubt the clearest, most comprehensive presentation of the whole phenomenon I have heard. Thank you for myself and any and all who hear.
I’m just curious, in your 15 years of researching the controversy for the timing of the Rapture of God’s true believers at the end of the age, who are the Biblical teachers that you have either read or listened too, who gave their reasons and referenced the Scriptural texts for why & what they believe, supported a pre-tribulation Rapture?
In other words, like in a trial court, where the members of the jury, listen to the evidence presented for both sides of a controversy, before coming to a conclusion. Personally speaking, I can’t say that I know for sure when the rapture will take place, but I have spent some considerable time, researching all 3 sides of the argument, and not that I had a prejudice for believing one over the other, I just truly wanted to know which one seemed to have the most Biblical support.
But a lot of people don’t do that , and just follow an emotional path,that’s completely independent of requiring any statistical data, or facts. And won’t change their mind even if the facts don’t support what they believe.
But what little this man mentioned for what he believed about pre-tribulation rapture believers, wasn’t accurate, and evidently he hasn’t informed himself about much, if any of the reasons for why so many people believe in a pre-tribulation rapture.
And maybe because he didn’t think it was necessary to know, because his Father had already come to a factual conclusion.
@@garywilson7992Matthew 24:29-31
[29]Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
[30]And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
[31]And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.
SO THE ELECT ARE GATHERED AFTER THE TRIBULATION NOT BEFORE.
I totally agree with you! My thoughts exactly!
@@garywilson7992 The late Robert Van Kampen, Marc Rosenthal, MacMurtry, & Tom Petro all offer compelling arguments for a pre wrath rapture.
@@garywilson7992My testimony is similar to yours, that I soent considerable time in prayer and study of the subject.
What I learned from most comments I read along way was that anyone who was pre trib was pre trib because they had been taught that. This was the case for me.
I slso learned, and you will find this to be true in the comments here in this video, is that many who were pre trib changed their minds after doing an independent study of scripture without prejudice towards one view or the other. Also, those who come to the Lord with zero knowledge of any rapture and study on their oen, realize a pre wrath rapture as scriptural.
Your father played a HUGE roll in my life! God used him to help prepare me for what we are about to go through. I was raised pre trib. I was 36 when i got saved. I poured into God's word and became very close with Him. This relationship with God is what gave me the confidence to read your dads book, "The Pre Wrath Rapture." I knew the Holy Spirit would reveal to me right away if it was false teaching, the opposite happened, many questions i had concerning "pre trib" were answered. At that point, i knew that the teaching of a pre tribulation rapture was not correct. I knew God had used your father in a mighty way, to warn his church of what they could expect at the end of the age. I am far better prepared to face what is ahead, thanks to your father's sacrifice. Knowing the church would not be raptured until the 6th seal gave me the knowledge to prepare spiritually, mentally and physically for war, famine, pestilence. Speaking as a grandfather, father, and husband to my highschool sweetheart, I thank you and your father for the difference you've made in our lives! I am one man, we are just one family that has been forewarned. There are many, many more just like me that have been better prepared, thanks to your Dad! God bless him, and God bless your ministry and family! Thank you!
If it really was the Holy Spirit who told you that the pre-trib rapture was false then I expect he told you how to refute the following. Anything short of that then I'm afraid you're not worth listening to.
The fact that Jesus told us to pray the we would be counted worth to *escape ALL that is ABOUT to happen,* supports a pre-trib rapture.
The fact that Paul said that we are *NOT appointed to SUFFER WRATH* supports a pre-trib rapture.
The fact that scripture says that Jesus *saves us from the WRATH to COME* supports a pre-trib rapture.
The fact that Jesus said that the tribulation would play out as in the days of Noah and Lot who were *removed BEFORE the tribulation of their day* supports a pre-trib rapture.
The fact that there are *elders in the throne room wearing crowns before the tribulation period starts* supports a pre-trib rapture.
The fact that Jesus said that *the gates of hell would not overcome his church* and yet we see COUNTLESS tribulation saints being overcome by the antichrist supports a pre-trib rapture.
The fact that the tribulation saints are not given white robes until *AFTER the tribulation period starts* supports a pre-trib rapture.
The fact that Jesus warns us not to "soil our garments" and yet we see tribulation saint having to WASH theirs DURING the tribulation period supports a pre-trib rapture.
The fact that Paul suggested handing a sinful Christian over to Satan "for the destruction of the flesh on the day of the Lord" supports a pre-trib rapture.
The fact that Jesus indicated that there was a way to be *kept from the hour of trial that will come on the whole world* supports a pre-trib rapture.
The fact that there *isn't a single account of the church being protected* in the entire book of Revelation supports a pre-trib rapture.
The fact that God made it clear to Abraham that he does *NOT kill the righteous together with the wicked* supports a pre-trib rapture.
And the fact that Abraham's question concerning what happens to the righteous is answered DIFFERENTLY than scripture teaches us supports a pre-trib rapture.
Otherwise... why don't you answer it yourself:
"Will you sweep away the righteous with the wicked? What if there are fifty righteous people in the city? Will you really sweep it away and not spare the place for the sake of the fifty righteous people in it? *Far be it from you to do such a thing-to kill the righteous with the wicked, treating the righteous and the wicked alike.* Far be it from you! Will not the Judge of all the earth do right?" (Genesis 18:25)
So does the judge of all the world subject righteous people to the same death and destruction as the wicked? Read the continuation of that story to get the answer.
Post-tribbers make out God to be someone who subjects people who are the "righteousness of God in Christ Jesus" to the deadliest period of time in the entire history of mankind - treating the righteous and the wicked alike!
The only explanation that makes sense of these facts is that those saints who are being killed in the tribulation period have failed to live according to the law of Christ and by doing so have missed the rapture.
@paulbrennan4163 I respectfully disagree. Please listen again and thank the Holy Spirit for a deep understanding of the wrath of God. The Scripture you point are God's Word, but it is very confusing in light of the end of days. Also you are disrespectful to the person who gave their sincere thoughts. "Not worth listening to"
@@paulbrennan4163
I had nothing to do with Stephens death, yet he died as the "wicked", the same can be said of every believer to this very day according to you! According to you, all the disciples were wicked, because of how they died. Or could it be , you just don't understand when God's wrath begins. It's as plain as the nose on your face, Jesus told us when the rapture would occur, Matt 24:30-31.
If the rapture was pre trib, Matt 24:4 would describe the rapture! Instead, it warns us that no man deceives us! Why is that? Did Jesus not think it important enough to mention? I don't think so! He describes it roughly when it takes place, after the abomination of desolation, Matt 24:30-31.
I’m STUNNED after listening to your eschatological discourse, because your explanation of the event between six and seven seal. I never understood until now my eyes are opened therefore, my tribulation has begun.
I knew your father in the early 80’s. Maeve come to a Revelation conference to a little baptist church on Albany Ga. I was an 18 year old new Christian and newly married. Maeve was certainly ahead of his time. But mostly I remember his sweet disposition! Truly a godly man!
This is by far the best presentation of the pre wrath rapture I've seen!
I knew your dad quite well many years ago. I heard he died in Jan 2022 - my deepest sympathies for you and your family.
during the covid pandemic, after going through scriptures. I do believe in a post trib pre wrath rapture. Hallelujah lets rejoice and encourage one another brothers and sisters
Amen, keep looking for the church rapture
John 6 39-54 Jesus says at the Last day four times. Jesus is truth keep the faith
The church rapture is at judgement day
Revelation 21 New earth no more days
Mystery Babylon tricked us
The church was never promised white robes or the thousand year reign of Jesus
The saints that overcome the Mark of the beast are promised white robes and the thousand year reign of Jesus
Revelation 7 14 white robes
Revelation 20 4 thousand year reign
The church was promised everlasting life
Daniel 12 2
And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt.
Scripture does not say that.
...and that position is supposed to "ENCOURAGE" the believer?!?! RU serious?
The pre-trib rapture rebukes the pre-wrath, mid-trib, & post-trib rapture theories.
I don't see anything in scripture that says great tribulation being after the midpoint means there isn't any tribulation in the first half. Whether you want to call them birth pangs or not, it is still tribulation with a small t. It's just that it gets worse as time goes on. I am also not so sure that the "great tribuation" is cut short. It merely means that God has set a time limit. I don't seen that the "great tribulation" ENDS (OR IS CUT SHORT) and then the wrath begins. They're all part of the same thing. All I can say for sure is that believers are raptured before the wrath (Day of the Lord).
@@Kman. There is absolutely not a single verse in the Bible that says the escape comes before the tribulation.
I used to be a pre-trib rapture believer almost most of my Christian life but i been reading, re- reading, comparing, studying, watching, listening and praying and this position makes the most scenes according to scripture. Grateful to come across this video.
Why fall for a good video. It's possible but not definite. Study some more.
@@the-hollywood-dog-says-6072 I agree but for the most part this view seems a lot more plausible to me but I also believe it will remain a mystery so I'm not settling on when exactly it will be and I'm also not going to try to understand something God hasn't plainly said. So it really is a mystery to all of us no matter what position we choose because if it was plainly mentioned there wouldn't be diff views.
@realdealholyfield-dx3bf
How do you know that we aren't in the Tribulation right now? Look around you. HAMAS, which is not a country and Israel. I bet you don't know that Saudi Arabia and Israel have been negotiating a treaty for Israel to Build a new Temple right next to the Omar Mosque 🕌. Oh don't you know that Israel has all of the elements for their temple that can be built in less than 6 months? 🤔 2nd 3½ years is when the Great Tribulation begins when the world leader is unveiled
With so many pre-tribulation rapture videos on TH-cam that are a false deception, it was very edifying to watch this video. Scripture clearly teaches a pre-wrath rapture which I believe and you did a great job explaining. It opened my eyes to other things that I have not seen in my research. Thank you for posting!!!
It's too far brother to say that pre trib videos are false deception, it's a secondary doctrine snd good Christians believe it
Over the last 50 yrs I’ve heard many people “ prove “ from scripture several different views about the end times. When I was a teenager , seeing I was interested in the subject, my pastor gave me some advice . He said “you’ve got to remember, it’s only “their opinion “.
Post Trib rapture is based on scripture. PreTrib rapture is based on conjecture, speculation and misinterpretation of Scripture.
Rapture is posttrib and It’s not really debatable. Here are some irrefutable truths.
1. The rapture is AFTER the resurrection.
1 Thessalonians 4. Dead in Christ shall rise first.
2. Jesus said the resurrection is on ‘THE LAST DAY’ over and over and over in John 6. That is the last day of the age of grace. The last day of life without Christ. The last day of the church age. The last day of the New Covenant. The next day starts the millennial kingdom. If the resurrection is ON THE LAST DAY obviously then this means that the rapture is on the last day since the RAPTURE IS AFTER THE RESURRECTION.
The rapture is on the last day.
3. The resurrection / rapture is in Rev 20:4. Here we find ‘the last day’. John says he saw the dead come to life. This is the resurrection of the dead in Christ and the rapture is right after it. The rapture is post trib. It is AFTER Rev 5-19. The church goes THROUGH the tribulation. We will not experience Gods wrath just like Israel did not experience Gods wrath when God punished Egypt. And Noah didn’t experience Gods wrath when He flooded the whole earth, but Noah was preserved THROUGH the flood. Not raptured out of it. Israel was not raptured out of Egypt. God will test the church. He will have a pure spotless bride for His Son.
Any other position other than a posttrib rapture twists and distorts Gods Word.
And then there’s Jesus’ message in
Matthew 24:29-31
“But immediately AFTER THE TRIBULATION of those days……..And then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in the sky, ………….And He will send forth His angels with a great trumpet and THEY WILL GATHER TOGETHER His elect from the four winds, from one end of the sky to the other.
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Jesus Himself says that He is coming back for His church and will gather it immediately AFTER the tribulation.
How can it get ANY CLEARER????
Stop with this false doctrine of a PreTrib rapture. The doctrine of escapism has to be exposed and refuted by the word of God. Too many people planning their escape instead of filling their lamp with oil.
Having said this, in Rev 3:10 God promises to keep those who have proven their faithfulness from the hour of testing. Knowing that be so faithful that God keeps you from the tribulation. Remember this promise of Christ is to only ONE of the seven churches in Revelation. One. There are letters to SIX other churches.
And remember this verse.
Revelation 13:7
It was also given to him to make war with the saints and to overcome them, and authority over every tribe and people and tongue and nation was given to him.
--
God will give Antichrist power to persecute and kill His saints. Sounds crazy but that’s His plan. Don’t let people tickle your ears with anything that’s not the truth.
2 Timothy 2:15
Be diligent to present yourself approved to God as a workman who does not need to be ashamed, accurately handling the word of truth.
Read your Bible. Test your teachers. Reject false teachers. Endure to the end and you will be saved. That’s a promise from God.
@@willpower6720THANK YOU!!
I read your dad's book in the 90s and was so excited to find a consistent position. I have affirmed and taught it ever since.
Strange as it may be, we as Christians focus so much on the period of tribulation and the birth pangs. What we should mostly be focusing on is what the birth brings forth. The coming of our blessed hope Jesus Christ and the entry into the eternal age. Glory be to God, how our hearts burn for this.
thank you so much it is giving me peace agains the other 4 options,bless you the Almighty to continue help to understand the Word of God
I have been in the Pre-Wrath camp for many years, and I owe a lot of my Biblical knowledge to David's father, Marvin Rosenthal. He published a now famous book entitled The PRE-WRATH RAPTURE of the CHURCH in 1990. It is excellent, thorough, and well worth reading; again and again! Arm yourself with Truth! This is a life-changer. Amen.
my problem with this is that the rapture is contingent upon the resurrection of those in Christ happening first, then we who are alive and remain will be caught up together with them. This happens at the end of the Tribulation, Revelation 19-20 (20.4-6 specifically) as Christ said, "Immediately after the tribulation of those days." While I've heard many explanations, they're just interpretive gymnastic to explain away or avoid the plain text of Scripture. The Tribulation is not *THE* Wrath we are not appointed to. The Wrath we're not appointed to is the judgement of eternal damnation.
Your perspective will change if you read Genesis 19:23-25..
"Immediately after the trib of those days" is Jesus quoting Isa 27:13. It is not the Rapture.
No, you're mistaken about the Wrath of God and the Lamb, what you consider to be the wrath is actually the Great White Throne Judgement. Here is scriptural proof: Rev.6:15 Then the kings of the earth, the nobles, the commanders, the rich, the mighty, and every slave and free man hid in the caves and among the rocks of the mountains. 16 And they said to the mountains and the rocks, “Fall on us and hide us from the face of the One seated on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb. 17 For the great day of Their wrath has come, and who is able to withstand it?”
I think the resurrection at the very end is the second resurrection of the DEAD, Christians are always "sleeping" and are part of the first resurrection. That's how I understood it. 👍
😂😂You kidding right?So after the Rapture Revelation 6:12 when he says the wrath has come in Revelation 6:17..then we view what is happening on earth in Revelation 7:1-3,then in heaven Rev:7:9
Then the 7Trumpets,7 Bowls7 vials start in Revelation 8 upon those who took the mark..is that judgement?When we see the 7 plagues in Revelation 15:1-2 while we are in heaven is that judgement?Judgement of the righteous is at Revelation 20:4 after the second coming in Revelation 19:11...I think it's clear as day
Best presentation ever on this! I read your dad's book many years ago and he convinced me of the pre-wrath rapture. Thank you for continuing his work.
Did you consider the “first resurrection” mentioned in revelation 20:5? I’m trying to reconcile putting a resurrection of the saints in revelation chapter 7 (the great multitude). The dead in Christ rises FIRST.
@@1AbidingInTheLight
The resurrection does not occur at at Revelation 20. The resurrected martyrs are just mentioned here because they will be resurrected to reign with Christ during the millennium and Revelation 20 is about the millennium.
Isaiah 26:19-21 makes it clear that the resurrection precedes the wrath of God. This is one of the better proofs for a pre-wrath rapture since the martyrs in Revelation 20 and their resurrection would have to take place after the antichrist is revealed at the midpoint.
Yes,I too, was wonderfully helped by his book as well! The Pre-Wrath Rapture is the most cohesive unstrained,a d scripturally sound interpretation of the Rapture!
Rapture is posttrib. It’s not debatable.
1. Resurrection PRECEDES the rapture. 1 Thessalonians 4. Dead in Christ shall rise first.
2. Jesus said the resurrection is on ‘the last day’ over and over and over in John 6. That is the last day of the age of grace. The last day of life without Christ. And so shall we ever be with the Lord. Obviously then this also means the rapture is on the last day since the resurrection PRECEDES THE RAPTURE.
3. The resurrection / rapture is in Rev 20:4. John says he saw the dead come to life. HERE is the resurrection and rapture. It’s post trib. AFTER Rev 5-19. The church goes through the tribulation. We will not experience Gods wrath just like Israel did not experience Gods wrath when He punished Egypt.
Any other position other than a posttrib rapture twists and distorts Gods Word.
Matthew 24:29-31
The Glorious Return
“But immediately after the tribulation of those days……..And then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in the sky, ………….And He will send forth His angels with A GREAT TRUMPET and THEY WILL GATHER TOGETHER His elect from the four winds, from one end of the sky to the other.
---
Jesus Himself says that He is coming back for His church AFTER the tribulation.
How can it get ANY CLEARER????
Stop with the false doctrine of a PreTrib rapture. This bad doctrine of escapism has got to be refuted. Too many people planning their escape instead of filling their lamp with oil.
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The rapture is post Trib. False teachers constantly and incessantly gets this wrong and lead the church astray. Don’t listen to them about the rapture they are WRONG.
STUDY. Show yourself approved. Don’t be ashamed.
1. The resurrection is BEFORE the rapture.
1 Thess 4.
2. The resurrection is ON THE LAST DAY.
John 6.
3. The last day is in Revelation 20:4. THE DEAD CAME TO LIFE.
This is the resurrection and rapture. The next day starts the millennial kingdom.
Instead of planning your escape start filling your lamps with oil.
Post Trib rapture is based on scripture. PreTrib rapture is based on conjecture, speculation and misinterpretation of Scripture.
Rapture is posttrib and It’s not really debatable. Here are some irrefutable truths.
1. The rapture is AFTER the resurrection.
1 Thessalonians 4. Dead in Christ shall rise first.
2. Jesus said the resurrection is on ‘THE LAST DAY’ over and over and over in John 6. That is the last day of the age of grace. The last day of life without Christ. The last day of the church age. The last day of the New Covenant. The next day starts the millennial kingdom. If the resurrection is ON THE LAST DAY obviously then this means that the rapture is on the last day since the RAPTURE IS AFTER THE RESURRECTION.
The rapture is on the last day.
3. The resurrection / rapture is in Rev 20:4. Here we find ‘the last day’. John says he saw the dead come to life. This is the resurrection of the dead in Christ and the rapture is right after it. The rapture is post trib. It is AFTER Rev 5-19. The church goes THROUGH the tribulation. We will not experience Gods wrath just like Israel did not experience Gods wrath when God punished Egypt. And Noah didn’t experience Gods wrath when He flooded the whole earth, but Noah was preserved THROUGH the flood. Not raptured out of it. Israel was not raptured out of Egypt. God will test the church. He will have a pure spotless bride for His Son.
Any other position other than a posttrib rapture twists and distorts Gods Word.
And then there’s Jesus’ message in
Matthew 24:29-31
“But immediately AFTER THE TRIBULATION of those days……..And then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in the sky, ………….And He will send forth His angels with a great trumpet and THEY WILL GATHER TOGETHER His elect from the four winds, from one end of the sky to the other.
------
Jesus Himself says that He is coming back for His church and will gather it immediately AFTER the tribulation.
How can it get ANY CLEARER????
Stop with this false doctrine of a PreTrib rapture. The doctrine of escapism has to be exposed and refuted by the word of God. Too many people planning their escape instead of filling their lamp with oil.
Having said this, in Rev 3:10 God promises to keep those who have proven their faithfulness from the hour of testing. Knowing that be so faithful that God keeps you from the tribulation. Remember this promise of Christ is to only ONE of the seven churches in Revelation. One. There are letters to SIX other churches.
And remember this verse.
Revelation 13:7
It was also given to him to make war with the saints and to overcome them, and authority over every tribe and people and tongue and nation was given to him.
--
God will give Antichrist power to persecute and kill His saints. Sounds crazy but that’s His plan. Don’t let people tickle your ears with anything that’s not the truth.
2 Timothy 2:15
Be diligent to present yourself approved to God as a workman who does not need to be ashamed, accurately handling the word of truth.
Read your Bible. Test your teachers. Reject false teachers. Endure to the end and you will be saved. That’s a promise from God.
Amazing, clear and concise teaching. Praise the Lord for you!
All sides have convincing scriptures. All I know right now is that I have work to do for the LORD. And I trust that He will do what is Written, And take care of little ole me in the process. God bless.
I have done much study and conclude this Presentation is based on Scripture taken in proper context. Also one of the best presentations that would be understood by most Church goers.Pretribulation believers cannot offer definite Bible verses to support then timing of the Rapture. Jesus in Matthew 24 explicitly states what happens before the Rapture.Paul explicitly states in 2 Thess Ch 2 that the Apostasy and revealing of the antichrist are to take place. Well done David !
I can tell you exactly when the church rapture will happen
The church rapture is at judgement day
John 6 39-54 Jesus says at the Last day four times, simple just stop adding a thousand years or more after the day Jesus calls the Last day
The church doesn't have one Bible verse that promised them white robes or the thousand year reign of Jesus
The saints that overcome the Mark of the beast are promised white robes and the thousand year reign of Jesus
Revelation 7 14 white robes
Revelation 20 4 thousand year reign
Jesus is truth keep the faith
Agreed. The Word of God cannot be compromised. After an intense Scriptural study myself I came to this Prewrath position as well. May God be with you.
I genuinely don't understand how anyone who has researched this subject can still defend pre-trib. I just don't get it. Is it clinging to ideology over the word of God, or is it ignorance? Either way, there's no excuse for the pastors. They shouldn't be putting man's ideology over God's word, and they definitely shouldn't be ignorant concerning the word of God.
Almost too funny, as I really almost could state the same thing about those who align with the "POST" position, but I won't. So tell me, what's THEE defining passage in your opinion that supports the "POST" position?
Because the certification process requires this indoctrination of pretrib. I've asked several pastors to help me understand the pretrib view as it would ease my mind a lot of the future. Yet none will even try because they can't defend it
There is good evidence for pretrial, midtrib, etc. But in the end literally we will see
I think it’s fear and pride that keeps them blind. They can’t understand how much God loves them so think it’s wrong and nasty for Him to not take them away before they get their faith tested
@@Kman.How about when Jesus said He was coming AFTER THE TRIBULATION to gather His elect in Matthew 24? How about when the bible says the antichrist will wear out the saints Daniel 7? How about when the bible says all those who were martyred and wouldn't take the mark of the beast will be resurrected and raptured by Jesus when He returns Revelation 20?
Again, without intention to be controversial, I realized that if one does not regard the church and Israel as two different entities, they would easily deny this rapture position.
Why do people think that God has a caste system?
Do they seriously imagine that God is saying "Those OT believers were willing to die for me, but they believed too soon, so they are not my favorites. These others believed last, they are also willing to die for me, but they are not my bride, so they must suffer terribly.
But THAT group, the one that falls in line with every whim and fad of society, no matter how clearly I have forbidden it, claims to heal back pain by playing the carnival scam of leg-pulling, and insists that my only desire is to lavish them with every earthly whim while winking at blatant sins...THAT group is my beloved. THAT is my bride. They will be spirited off the earth before the Beast can bruise their little pinkies."
The "New Covenant" was promised to ABRAHAM. It was stated long before the church was formed. The Bride of YHVH is Israel. The betrothal contract was the Mosaic Covenant.
"Israel was YHVH's bride, but God divorced her." - Pretribbles. No, Zechariah makes it crystal clear that it was a temporary setting aside. The remnant will be redeemed.
"But the church is the bride of CHRIST not Yahweh." - Pretribbles. Actually, that is stated nowhere in the Bible. Paul does say that he wished to present the church as a pure bride. He also says that we are grafted INTO the root of Israel.
SO, who is YHVH (Yahweh/I AM)?
I always thought it was God the Father. BUT:
THE ANGEL of the LORD spoke to Moses from the burning bush. When Moses asked THE ANGEL of the LORD to state His name, TAOTL replied, "I AM that I AM." (I AM WHAT I WILL BE/ YHVH/ YAHWEH)
THE ANGEL of the LORD is seen several times in the Bible when a supernatural "man" is identified as God. Since no human can see God and live, these must be Christophanies. (Appearances of Jesus prior to his incarnation.)
In other words, the God identified as YHVH, I AM, or Yahweh is God the SON!
His bride is Israel. We, who believe get to be part of that.
exactly because the true Israel are those who receive the Messiah and not dependent on nationality and that's the promise we are grafted in to the original olive tree "and you shall be one flock with One Shepherd "
I guess if they are wrong on the church and Israel then they are going to be wrong in the rapture too Oh well 🤷♂️
Outstanding teaching and revelation to be prepared for what is yet to come.
Thank you! It's so encouraging to see such an exegetical reading of revelation. My studies of the Olivet discourse and the letters to the Thessalonians and my reading of some parts of Revelation, guided by the Holy Spirit, of course, brought me to a pre-wrath rapture understanding, but your exposition has provided nuggets of context that fill in the pieces that were hazy for me. Bless you. I'm very encouraged, and I'm happily amazed by the magnificent unity of the truth of Scripture! Praise God! Maranatha!
I appreciate David's presentation and attempt to help people understand Scripture. I think there are many contradictions, however, to the prewrath position.
1. Notice David claims (correctly) that the first half of Daniel's 70th week is called "labor pains" by Jesus in Matthew 24:8. Paul uses the identical term in the Greek (odin) for "labor pains" in 1 Thess. 5:3. Problem: Paul links the labor pains to the "day of the Lord." This means the beginning of labor pains is the beginning of the day of the Lord and therefore God's wrath! This is why the pretribulation proponents are correct in asserting that the church is raptured at the very beginning of Daniel's 70th week (prior to the day of the Lord).
2. Key to the prewrath position is the idea that Antichrist's reign of 3 1/2 years will be cut short to less than that. They claim Matthew 24:22 teaches this. Problem: The apostle John teaches that antichrist reigns for 3 1/2 years in Revelation 13:5. This means that the prewrath position directly contradicts John's teaching in Revelation 13:5. This is why pretribulation proponents teach that the great tribulation is "cut short" to 3 1/2 years just as Daniel and John taught (cf. Dan. 7:25; 12:7; Rev. 12:14; 13:5). There is then no contradiction between Matthew 24:22 and John 13:5 in the pretribulation view.
3. The prewrath position claims the day of the Lord (and its associated wrath) is not present until after the 6th seal. Problem: Paul teaches that the day of the Lord comes while the unbelieving world is claiming they have "peace and safety" (1 Thess. 5:3). Peace and safety is removed by the 2nd seal! John wrote, "And another, a red horse, went out; and to him who sat on it, it was granted to take peace from the earth, and that men would slay one another; and a great sword was given to him" (Rev. 6:4). This is why pretribulation proponents teach that the entire 70th week of Daniel is God's wrath.
4. As I mentioned above, the prewrath position claims the day of the Lord's wrath does not begin until after the 6th seal. Problem: The fourth seal records four instruments of God's wrath: sword, famine, pestilence, and wild beasts (Rev. 6:8). This passage is a direct allusion to Ezekiel 14:19-21 where God poured out sword, famine, pestilence, and wild beasts on Jerusalem as instruments of His wrath. Why was it God's wrath when it was poured out upon Jerusalem, but it's not God's wrath when poured out on the world? This is another reason why pretribulation proponents teach the that the wrath of God is present during the entire 70th week.
5. The prewrath position claims that Daniel's 70th week and its associated tribulations will be the worst time period in human history. This is true (Matt. 24:21). The prewrath position claims, however, that this worst time period will be cut short by the day of the Lord which is the worst time period! You can't have two "worst" time periods! This is another reason why pretribulation proponents teach that the entire 70th week of Daniel is the day of the Lord.
6 David Rosenthal claims (as do other prewrath proponents) that the day of the Lord and its wrath begins after the 6th seal. Problem: The unregenerate claim that the day of God's wrath has come in Revelation 6:17 (6th seal). The aorist verb (erchomai) "has come" is a constative aorist that explains a past event. The unregenerate even understand at this point that the world has been experiencing the wrath of God. This is direct contradiction to David Rosenthal who claims the day of the Lord begins "after" the 6th seal.
7. The prewrath position claims that the day of the Lord is preceded by cosmic disturbances. Problem: There are a series of 5 cosmic disturbances throughout Daniel's 70th week. You have a cosmic disturbance at the 6th seal (Rev. 6:12), 4th trumpet (Rev. 8:12), 5th trumpet (Rev. 9:2), 4th bowl (Rev. 16:8), and after Daniel's 70th week according to Jesus in Matthew 24:29. Prewrath claims Matthew 24:29 and the 6th seal are synonymous. The problem: Jesus teaches this cosmic disturbance occurs after the 70th week is over!
8. Prewrath claims Joel 2:31 and Malachi 4:5 provide signs prior to the day of the Lord. Interestingly, both texts have the same phrase "great and terrible day of Yahweh." When one reads from Joel 2:31 through Joel 3:1-21, one realizes this "great and terrible day of Yahweh" is the narrow 24-hour day in which Messiah intervenes against the enemies surrounding Jerusalem (Zech 14:1-7). This is why Jesus cites the same text (Joel 2:31) in Mattew 24:29 because it is "immediately after the tribulation of those days." This is a reference to the end of Daniel's 70th week, not some point inside of it. Therefore, there are signs prior to what is called the "narrow day" of the Lord, but not before the broad day of the Lord which begins at the inception of Daniel's 70th week and extends unto eternity (2 Pet. 3:10). This is why pretribulation proponents rightly claim that the broad day of the Lord (beginning of Daniel's 70th week) comes like a thief (1 Thess. 5:2), and that the "narrow day of the Lord" (final battle at end of 7 years) is preceded by signs such as the Elijah like witness (Rev. 11) and cosmic disturbances (Joel 2:31; Mal. 4:5).
9 Prewrath claims the day of the Lord is preceded by signs, yet Paul says it comes "suddenly" and like a "thief." (1 Thess. 5:2-3). The term for thief (kleptes) is one which emphasizes stealth. The robber (lestes) uses force to get what he wants, but the thief (kleptes) uses stealth. How can the day of the Lord come without warning if there are signs that must occur first? How can the day of the Lord come suddenly when people have seen many signs prior that have tipped them off? Jesus uses Noah's day as the example of the onset of Daniel's 70th week (Matt. 24:37-39). The whole purpose of citing Noah's day is to give an example of the suddenness of the coming wrath. The writer of Hebrews wrote, "By faith Noah, being warned by God about things not yet seen, in reverence prepared an ark for the salvation of his household, by which he condemned the world, and became an heir of the righteousness which is according to faith" (Heb 11:7).
Notice the writer of Hebrews states that Noah was "warned by God about things not yet seen." There were no signs for Noah or anyone else to see that God's wrath was coming. That's the way it will be at the onset of Daniel's 70th week. The only warning comes from the word of God. This is why Jesus said, "A wicked and adulterous generation seeks for a sign, but none will be given to it except the sign of Jonah" (Matt. 16:4). The only sign (sign of Jonah) refers to Christ's resurrection and cannot be visibly seen by us during the church age. This sign is only found by believing in what the Scriptures have said.
This is excellent presentation without any unnecessary distractions..
Will have to watch this over again and again as time permits..
Thank you, and may the Lord God Jesus continue to bless Zion's Hope Ministry financially, it takes a lot of time and effort to be a content creator on TH-cam.
Please compare Rev 14:14-20 to all Rapture verses. It is the 7th trumpet. The Harvest of the earth / compare to Matthew 13:24-30 and 13:37-43 Harvest at the End of the Age. Others: Joel 3:13 / Luke 21:27 / Matt 24:30 / 1 Thes 4:17 / Isaiah 24 / 1 Cor 15:51 / Jude 14 / Dan 7:13 / Rev 10: 6-7
Awesome teaching, I got Marvin's book years ago. It's the only position that makes sense to me. thank you for carrying on these Bible truths.
You didn't mention Matt. 24:29-31. Post-trib and pre wrath are one and the same.
Great presentation, very clear and concise. My understanding in regard to the last trump is that it is the trump of God not an angel blowing the trumpet and it is tied to the Jewish feasts.
The Resurrection of the church is at judgment day
John 6 39-54 Jesus says at the Last day four times
1 Corinthians 15 Paul says the Resurrection of the dead four times before verse 51
Jesus is Truth Keep the Faith
Why is the day of the lord NOT a day, but 3.5 years? Is Jesus coming back early? and then leaving and coming back again? I don't see any proof or even an argument here.
It IS a DAY! Revelation 18.8--10; EXACTLY the DAY and the HOUR that Jesus said He did NOT know, because He said,
"I have come, not to JUDGE the world, but to SAVE the world." John 12.47.
Thank you for another very clear and insightful teaching on this essential topic - really most appreciated, and only one mention of the word 'global' this time. Much preferred when you say 'world-wide'... (words are important) 🙂 Blessings aye.
When I was born again back in 1981, I was introduced to the pre-tribulation rapture as if it was absolute truth. Not knowing the Bible, I believed what I was taught. As I grew in the Word, I learned there were other views - but believed that the most popular view must be the right one - I also didn't think it was very important and certainly not critical to one's salvation. Then in 2013 I desided to study this topic for myself and commited to only examining the scriptures (vs commentaies, books, articles or videos) and prayed to the Father to lead me to the truth via the Holy Spirit. After several weeks of studying the prophetic scriptures I came to the reality that the scriptures teach a PRE-WRATH rapture. It was only after coming to this truth that I then began to discover pastors and Bible teachers who also hold to the Pre-Wrath rapture - many who also previously held to the Pre-trib rapture.
Glad you arrived at the truth. I no longer am a pre tribber. I'm convinced of a pre wrath rapture.
John Nelson Darby came up with the pre trib rapture in 1830. You can even look it up. It's history. It seems that many believers who hold to the pre trib rapture either just take what they're taught as absolute truth like you mentioned, or don't want to dig deeper bc pre trib rapture suits them better bc they want outta here before things get really bad. It wld be great if a pre trib rapture was true, but the teaching in this video & others I've listened to on Pre Wrath rapture make more sense regarding scripture. 🩷🧡💛💚💙🩵💜🤎
Bible does not teach pre wrath rapture....
Did you research and find that NONE of the church fathers teached Pre Trib Rapture? This has only been taught for the past 150 years. READ YOUR BIBLE
@@marymcmullen5644Reread scripture and pray for truth to be revealed. When I did that, God revealed much to me.
You honor the legacy of your dad. Very solid work.
You don't need a prewrath rapture. God can protect his own by promises like those in Psalm 91.
Many,many of them get beheaded. So I don't think he will be protecting them. The only thing he protects them from is His own wrath (by taking them in the rapture just before the wrath begins).
He is just quoting the bible..no one doubts the abilities of our protector ...and yes we will have the 144,000during his Wrath..they will be here on earth
When the church finds itself in the middle of the tribulation, it will cause a great falling away as Christians will say I did not sign up for this!
The apostasy has already begun, few actually know what is written in the scriptures, only what the church teaches.
The tribulation is for ISRAEL and the unbelieving Gentile nations. Not the Church.
@@gracealone89 The Antichrist during the Great Tribulation will persecute all Christians.
@@gracealone89How do you know that we aren't in the Tribulation right now? One won't know until the 2nd 3½ year of the 7 week period.
That is when the AntiChrist is revealed. There is a treaty already to build the 3rd Temple in Jerusalem. Israel already has the components to build the 3rd Temple
@@gracealone89If thats the case Christians would be taken prior to tribulations starting. The Pastor stated we, the bride, will be taken prior to God's wrath not prior to tribulations.
How do so many teachers forget about the MILLENIAL reign of Christ Jesus that is on the planet after the great tribulation. It's not the end of time, it's the end of the age of grace where judgment and justice with wrath on the wicked takes place. Many people will parish but they will live again in Christ. Why are we even spending so much time as believers trying to know more than what God revealed to us. We should be focusing on living like Jesus, which honestly none of us is doing very well. Just looking at the facts and the current state of the church, our country and the world. Christians are being distracted by things that don't matter. Jesus wants us to be the light and salt, spread the gospel. We're deceived, there are so many interpretations, that is how you know the obsession with the rapture is coming but not yet. We could be storing up treasure in heaven but we choose to debate and fight other believers in the body of Christ because we want our options and interpretations to be right. Preach the gospel, do the work, and don't let debates take your crown of glory in being distracted by timing. God is perfect and his timing is perfect. We know time is short, look around it's obvious. Family, we're wasting time. I beg of you, focus on the great comission. Pray for discernment and not to be deceived. Love you all, to God the Father and Christ Jesus be the glory and praise!
True
Interesting perspective on the timing. Gives me some things to study, mull over, and consider.
1 Thess 4:15 shows us that the rapture (i.e. those who are alive and remain) is handcuffed and hogtied to the resurrection (i.e. those who are asleep), and will not precede the resurrection. Jesus said (John 6:39,40,44,54) that the resurrection will be on the "last day". Therefore, the rapture will also be on the last day.
Yep. Back to back. I think that we can presume a rapture occurs along with the resurrection as described in Isaiah 26:19-21 just before the wrath of God commences. The resurrected and raptured will go into their chambers and shut their doors behind them, until the indignation is past. We've got something similar to the parable of the 10 virgins in Matthew 25 being described here in Isaiah 26. Doors are shut in Matthew 25:10.
What are your thoughts about the “last trump” being the second ram’s horn from Isaac’s binding?
This teaching will be with us ALWAYS, from the Book of the Revelation.
When the Anti-Christ comes, the False prophet, the institution of the Image of the Beast,
the flowering of the oppression of Mystery Babylon, and the "mark," like WAKING from a dream,
it will be THEN that believers will realize that they had been deceived, in spite of Jesus' warning.
Wow! What a teaching!🙌🙌🙌
How about Revelation 4:1? How do you define that? It’s prior to any seals being opened. Just trying to figure your train of thought.
The church is raptured. I understand
In Revelation 4:1 only one guy goes to heaven spiritually. Contrast that with Revelation 7:9 where there appears a great multitude in Heaven after the Sun and moon are darkened in the 6th seal.
Which one sounds more like the rapture, Revelation 4:1 or Revelation 7:9?
They don't want to believe it. Rev 4:1 clearly says [the things of the tribulation "must" take place after "the things which are"], The things which are is the church. Rev. 1:19 says Write the things you have seen, the things which are and the things that will take take place after this. Or after the things of the church.
After speaking of the signs leading up to His return in Lk 21 He tells us to "Pray always that you may be accounted worthy to escape all these things that will take place and to stand before the son of man. They will assure us that we will be protected even as rev 13: 7 tells us "It was granted to him(antichrist) to make war with the saints and to overcome them. And authority was given him over every tribe, tongue, and nation." Your probably aware of all this.
Question regarding the { beginning of sorrows}: that seems like it could possibly be much longer than only 3 1/2 years, how do you interpret this to be only 3 1/2 years, since the things described during the{beginning of sorrows} are things that have been already happening and gradually increasing and becoming more intense, could not therefore the {beginning of sorrows} period be much longer than only 3 1/2 years, perhaps even decades or more?
No because Daniel's 70th week is a week of 7 years only with the last 3-1/2 being the great tribulation and ending with The Day of the Lord, God's wrath.
By God’s grace, I’ve read through the Bible every year since 1998. I wish I could say that because I was a good Christian is why I did it, but it wasn’t it was because I wanted to understand Revelation.
This position is the only one that needs no extra explanation, or no things to be focused on or ignored in order to make the position work. It also can be interpreted as pre, mid or post trib with just some minor, variations on definitions or circumstances, so it actually helps explain the other views existence.
No one understood Jesus first coming completely before it happened, so I’m sure there’s things we don’t understand now, but this sure seems to fit.
Seeing that the Church is raptured at the end of the Sixth Seal (Revelation 6 and 7) and ushered to Heaven at that point, and that the Wrath of GOD (7 Trumpets and the 7 Bowls of suffering) commences from that moment on until the end of the remainder of the 7 year period, then what is Revelation 12 (7th Trumpet) referring to in the last verses of this chapter in which we read that the dragon (devil) goes after the Church in his anger?
Rev. 6 verses 12 & 13 those two verses are speaking of Satan when he imitates Christ's coming and then he-Satan will appear in the holy land-temple of God as God/Christ doing miracles tempting all He is Christ, the hour of temptation.
Then the remaining verses in Rev. 6 it then fast forwards to the real Christ coming. Verses 12 & 13 are the constellation of Satan appearing as Christ when Satan appears as Christ the moon became blood-blood moon. Matthew 24 are the constellation of the real Christ, the real Christ comes the moon does not light because of the brightness of Christ. Just like the very first seal that rider on the white horse is Satan imitating Christ on His white horse in Rev. 19. The real Christ return will darken the sun, moon and stars as it is written in Isaiah chapter 13:10. But that's not until the last trump-trump of God after the tribulation ends...
The rider on that white horse in that "first" seal is the fake Christ Satan, that bow he has is toxon in the Greek meaning a cheap fabric imitation, Satan imitating the rider on the white white horse Christ in Rev. chapter 19. You have to rightly divide the word and distinguish the positive from the negative. And a crown was given unto him because Satan is the king of Babylon in the end times, Babylon means confusion. Satan is the king of the bottomless pit Rev.9 and when Satan appears Christ-king in the holy land temple of God as Christ tempting the world he is Christ returned, the hour of temptation and the falling away..
Satan will appear in the Holy land-temple of God as Christ-looking like Christ on the woe of the 6th trumpet doing miracles, Ezekiel chapter 28 says Satan is very beautiful looking and also is a supernatural entity and able to disguise as an angel of light as written.
Just like the "second" seal the red horse with the sword is like Christ sword in Rev. 19, but the opposite, instead of truth as Christ speaks it's lies coming out of Satan's mouth, a flood of lies Rev. chapter 12, deception and it will be spiritual war as well.
In the "third" seal the black horse famine and as written in Amos chapter 8 the famine of the end times is not for food but for hearing the word of the Lord, look what is being taught out there now and there will be Satan's one world religion at that time-last half of the tribulation/hour of temptation.
The "fourth" seal pale horse death which is another name for Satan Hebrews 2:14, and hell followed him and army follows Christ when He returns and Satan has his army of fallen angels that follow him as well when they are cast out of heaven to earth on the woe of the fifth trumpet Rev. chapters 9 & 12.
In six seal in Rev. 6 you will have the repetition of the colors that were mention in the first four seals letting you know they take on there ultimate spiritual form at that time, it will be spiritual war, spiritual famine, spiritual death and Satan will have appeared as the false Christ at that time in the Holy land-temple of God.
There are some good questions and responses .keep reading the Word and keep praying fir wisdom and discernment..and don't forget love thy neighbor or you missed everything
But what is the restrainer that moves out of the way so that all of this can happen?
The churches who are focusing on being raptured are not preparing the people to endure persecution. I am not talking about the tribulation. If you are expecting to be raptured and not expecting persecution you will fall away. There will be a falling away before any rapture will happen (2 Thess. 2:3).
They fall away because they are deceived preparing themselves only for rapture instead of preparing themselves to endure to the end.
Don't be blindsided by unexpected persecution and fall away.
(Matthew 13)."...But he that received the seed into stony places, the same is he that heareth the word, and anon with joy receiveth it; yet hath he not root in himself, but dureth for a while: for when tribulation or persecution ariseth because of the word, by and by he is offended..."
I remember hearing people say that when the so called rapture happens that there will be crashing cars and airplanes because some of the drivers and pilots will suddenly be taken away and the cars and planes will crash because there will be no one left to control them. This scenario will not happen and cannot happen because when the church of Philadelphia is translated the people will be assembled in a 24 hour sunset to sunset Trumpets convocation. Just like the 120 were in Acts chapter 2 for the Feast of Weeks. They will not be out and about driving cars and flying airplanes.
“Blessed are those servants, whom the Lord when He comes shall find watching: verily I say unto you, that he shall gird himself, and make them to sit down to meat, and will come forth and serve them.”
Some people say that they are watching all the time but they overlook verse 38. “And if he shall come in the second watch, or come in the third watch, and find them so, blessed are those servants.” (Luke 12:37-38).
Under normal circumstances people are sound asleep during the second and third watch. Therefore Luke 12 is not talking about watching in a figurative way. The LORD is talking of a literal watch.
There are appointed times in the scriptures for us to fulfill a literal watch. In fact, all of the appointed times of holy convocations (moedim) listed in Leviticus 23 are watches and vigils of Yahweh. Each one of them are fulfilled by both an Old Testament and corresponding New Testament historical event.
In other words they will be assembled together in a holy convocation and not out and about driving cars and flying airplanes. Like the 120 were assembled in the upper room Acts chapter 2 for the Feast of Weeks (Pentecost). Unfortunately, because of a man-made ecclesiastical calendar many will not be watching at the appointed time.
The people preaching a post-trib doctrine are setting up all their friends and family for serious hardship because they are lying to them that there is no pre-trib rapture. Then when it occurs, those in their circle who are not believers are going to be severely upset that they didn't share the correct gospel story and left them on the planet to deal with all the judgments of God. You lose the ability to be a great witness in whatever months/ years we have left.
@@seanc2788 post tribbers expect to go through the tribulation so prepared for whatever is ahead, pre tribbers are not sticking to what the Bible tells them when the rapture time frame is, they ignore it and weave in fantasies about a secret rapture and a ticket out of here, no persecution whatsoever for them, have they forgotten how all but 1 of the Messiahs disciples were martyred for their faith, what about Christians in the arenas with lions? Burned at the stake?
Revelation 13:7 the beast is given permission by God to war with the saints, the saints and the church are the same, Believers.
The righteousness of the in fine clean white linen are the same saints.
Daniel 7:21 the horn made war with the saints and prevailed against them.
22: until the Ancient of days came, and judgement was given to the saints of the most high, and the time came that the saints possessed the Kingdom.
We are exempt from Gods wrath, but not Satans.
We are told to endure to the end. How are you showing your faith by expecting a free pass out of here, different then any other Christian.
Matthew 24:13 the one who endures to the end will be saved.
Well said!!...only in dumbed down westernized America does church think they are immune to persecution, even while it's happening in many parts of world...duhhh
So......do you consider this mid-tribulation then because its almost at the end?
So why doesn’t scripture, Revelation, tell us that at the 7th Trumpet is sounded, when it tells us all that will happen, we need to guess that the rapture will be included?
Revelation 3:10 we will not be there. After revelation chapter 3, church not mentioned anymore. We are rapture
@@JacquelineCopeland-zp7sjhow do you get a 7 year tribulation from the phrase “hour of trial“? If the pre trib rapture were so true then why did Jesus never mention it?
The rapture happens after the 6th seal when the sun and moon are darkened. Read Revelation 7:9. This the same as Matthew 24:29 and Nark 14:24.
There is no Rapture in Revelation 11 during the 7th trumpet
The first resurrection is when in Revelation?
I don’t understand how the explanation of these verses are constantly overlooked
“And I will give power unto my two witnesses, and they shall prophesy a thousand two hundred and threescore days, clothed in sackcloth. These are the two olive trees, and the two candlesticks standing before the God of the earth.”
Revelation 11:3-4
It literally tells us who the two witnesses are: the 2 olive trees and the 2 candlesticks - challenge yourself to do a deep dive into these 2 things mentioned - you won’t come to the conclusion of Moses and Elijah
Amen!
Agree with all of this and this is also what my church teaches too. I have been watching your videos along with others for a few years and believe pre-wrath is most Bibilical position. However, just had one question pertaining to 'day of the Lord' for the following verse, 4:17 Then they who are alive, shall be caught up together into the clouds with them who remain, to meet the Lord in the air; and so shall we be ever with the Lord. How does this verse reconcile with [raptured church] being the great multitude in Rev. 7? That's the only thing I am just curious about. I'm an amateur, so it could be something obvious I have missed! Blessings to you and your wonderful ministry.
The simple meaning of 1 Thess 4:15-17 is that those of us who believe in Christ, and remain (Strongs Concordance Greek word - περιλείπω; transliteration - perileipomai; meaning - to survive) at His coming, are those who have survived the persecution of the anti-christ during the Great Tribulation.
Now at some point, the Great Tribulation (anti-Christ's persecution of ALL believers in Christ) has got to end and the Day of the Lord (destruction of ALL non-believers) begins. If you read Rev 6:17, it says that "for the great day of their wrath has come and who can stand?" Whose wrath? God's wrath on the wicked. Since we (ALL believers) are not appointed to God's wrath, all believers in Christ (the dead and the living) are caught up together (I do not like the word "rapture") to Heaven before His wrath begins.
Another word can be expressed the same thought instead of rapture “be caught up”.
Tony I agree with James’s answer.
Important to note is that the chapters in the book of Revelation tell a complete story but they are not necessarily sequential or chronological.....but when scripture is used to interpret scripture, then the whole gestalt forms.
You ready for the real secret to 1 Thess 4:16-17? Okay here it is.
It has nothing to do with the Tribulation. All these so-called people who have studied the Bible don't understand basic Christianity.
When Adam sinned he lost 3 things:
1) His spiritual life. That happened instantly
2) His physical life. That happened after 930 years.
3) His dominion over the earth. He allowed Satan and his henchmen to come in here and disrupt the rightful order of man's dominion over the activities of the planet. That is why Satan runs the world governments and the kingdoms of this planet.
So Jesus came, as the Second Adam to redeem all that Adam had lost.
1) He redeemed your spiritual life at Calvary. The moment you accept him as Lord you become spiritually alive. When you die your soul goes to heaven.
But your physical body still dies. Last time I checked man still goes back into the ground. So clearly that has not been redeemed.
Satan is still ruling this planet. As far as I can tell there is a ton of wickedness all over the place. So clearly that has not been redeemed yet.
So when do the other two issues get redeemed? Enter 1 Thess 4:16-17.
First those who are in heaven will get their bodies reunited with their souls (verse 16). Then we who are alive, will get caught up in the air to meet those who are in heaven. We get our bodies transformed mid-flight. 1 Cor 15:52 in a blink of an eye.
The rapture is simply what redeems your physical life. All the saints of God get their immortal incorruptible bodies so that we can go between heaven and earth. The rapture has nothing to do with salvation. That work was already done at Calvary. So it has nothing to do with how tough you are standing up for Jesus.
When does the earth get redeemed? After all, Jesus says the meek shall inherit the earth. It belongs to those who are raptured in 1 Thess 4:16-17. there is only one problem. There are a ton of wicked people and Satan and his buddies all still hanging around the earth. They don't want to leave. How do they get removed? Over a 7 year period called the Tribulation. The 21 judgments are designed to systematically remove kingdoms and wicked people from the planet. In fact when you actually walk through Revelation correctly and you do the math, you see that nearly 99% of the population is killed. There is just a small group of Jews and a handful of people from every nation left to repopulate the earth during the Millennial Reign.
And if 99% of the population is killed how does God decide who gets raptured and who lives to enter the Millennial Reign as a mortal? Because you have to have both for the Reign to be realistic. Does God play favorites? I don't think so. I think 1 Thess 4:16-17 is the one event that everyone goes together. It can't be at the end because there is no one left "alive to get caught up." At least not enough to fulfill the great multitudes that no one can count. God is a God of order. He already redeemed our spiritual life. The physical life must be redeemed before the eviction process of the earth begins. Christians don't repopulate the earth, we rule over the mortals who rebuild. So the logical order is that it comes at the beginning of the Tribulation.
The trump of God, the trumpet Jesus blows to send the angels to gather the elect, the "last trumpet" is a reference to Zechariah 9:14-16. It is God who blows the trumpet there, not an angel. Paul taught out of the Old Testament, not out of dreams or visions. Jesus also referred to this passage in the Olivet Discourse, hence the illustration of His coming being like lightning, because it refers back to Zechariah 9 where the Lord's arrow goes forth as lightning.
It also refers to Isa 27:13.
Agreed. It is what is in the Word. It is clear. Only those who want God in their terms sees it differently.
THE proof of the pre-trib rapture: Who does John see upon arriving at the throne room of the universe? "And round about the throne were four and twenty seats: and upon the seats I saw four and twenty elders sitting, clothed in white raiment; and they had on their heads crowns of gold." (Rev. 4:4 KJV) And who are these elders? There's no need to speculate....they proclaim their identity in 5:9-10. "And they sung a new song, saying, Thou art worthy to take the book, and to open the seals thereof: for thou wast slain, and hast redeemed us to God by thy blood out of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation; And hast made us unto our God kings and priests: and we shall reign on the earth." Now who will be in heaven singing of having been redeemed by the blood of the Lamb? There's a clue in their song....note the pronouns "us" and "we." ('Jeopardy" theme plays) THE CHURCH!! John is looking at the glorified church who are wearing the white robes and crowns they were given at the Bema Seat Judgment AFTER the rapture. And since, at this point, our Lord is just now rising to take the title deed to the earth and begin to break the seals, the 7 years of Jacob's Trouble has yet to begin. Since none other than the Apostle John taught (as shown to him by the Holy Spirit) of a pre-trib rapture, I'm going to take his word for it.
The reward is given in Rev 11:18, that is when the kingdoms of this world become the Kingdom of the Lord, and He begins to reign. The 24 elders are OT Saints resurrected with Christ, the elders of the church in Heaven, which reign with Christ, the root of the natural olive tree of Israel. They and the 4 creatures sing a song and glorify Christ. The 24 elders are NOT of the group of the NT Saints, nowhere in revelation. The "us" is added and the "we" is changed, the older manuscripts say they and them.
Yea, brother. You're so right. We're looking to and for Jesus, not the Antichrist. We could never attain anything more than the gift of His grace in saving us from sin by proving (works of the flesh) our faith in the tribulation of the 70th week when we say NO to the mandate and lose our heads. Most people will say YES. Why? Because we're human and we have doctorates in failures, each and every one of us. Let nobody fool you. Talk to someone you know well that was involved in all-out war. He will tell you how the brave of today can falter and cry like a coward tomorrow. We don't have guarantees when we think about our weak flesh. I've hung-in-there 'till my "jaws" broke off and it mattered not - I gained nothing of true value because of my prideful tenacity or whatever horrible thing it was! We are KNOWN by our Father in heaven, and He will return for us at exactly the moment He had ordained from the beginning. Our personal rapture is imminent either way i.e. we die, we gone. This struggle we call life is worth the while and everything we do in the Spirit counts (in heaven) as long as we forget ourselves and keep looking to Jesus! Maranatha!
The elders are not the church, at most they represent the church. They are most often associated with the living creatures, which are equally mysterious but most like angelic beings from a reading of the OT. The song the elders sing in Rev 5 is poorly translated to use the word "us" in the KJV, but that word is not there in other translations. Also in Rev 5, the elders hold the prayers of the saints, which men wouldn't do.
The tribulation does not even begin until Chapter 6 starts.
The group in verses 9-11 are the same folks as those in chapter 7.9-17 and chapter 19.1-10.
There are no bible verses says that rapture will come before tribulation.
According to Jesus in Mathew 24 :21..For then there will be great tribulation....and at the end of tribulation in verse 29....
Immediately after the tribulation...
Then the rapture in verse 31....same in Revelation 20:4 the tribulation and the First Resurrection (rapture)in verse 5...
Those descriptions from Jesus points out that tribulation will happen before rapture.....if Jesus knew that rapture will come before tribulation, why He told the Judea to flee to the mountains in Mathew 24:16...also why God prepared a place in the wilderness in Revelation 12:6,14-16,if the rapture comes before tribulation????.
People read your bible before you listen to people....
I _HAVE_ read my bible before listening to people and this is what I have concluded from my studies. Jesus is _not_ referring to the rapture in Matthew 24:31. He was, by his own confession, sent _only_ to the lost sheep of Israel. Notice that he was telling the Jews about things that concern _them_ and not the gentiles - to flee to the mountains in Judea, to pray that it won't occur during the sabbath, and so on.
So why would he suddenly confuse them by referring, in plain language, to a rapture of the gentile church - something that was a mystery scheduled to be revealed decades later by Paul?
Although it doesn't have as much impact on us today, what Jesus was speaking about was something that the Jews would have _immediately_ recognized. Why? Partly because unlike gentiles living today these people were expecting a very important old testament prophecy to be fulfilled, and partly because throughout scripture idioms such as "the four winds", "four quarters", and the "four corners of the earth" were used to reference the four directions to which the lost sheep of Israel were scattered, and from which they were also to be regathered.
They were *SCATTERED* in four directions:
"I will bring against Elam the *four winds* from the four quarters of heaven; I will *scatter them to the four winds,* and there will not be a nation where Elam’s exiles do not go." (Jeremiah 49:36)
And
"Come! Come! Flee from the land of the north," declares the Lord, "for I have *scattered you to the four winds of heaven,"* declares the Lord." (Zechariah 2:6)
They will be *GATHERED* from four directions:
"Do not be afraid, for I am with you;
I will bring your children *from the east.*
and gather you *from the west.*
I will say *to the north,* ‘Give them up!’
and *to the south,* ‘Do not hold them back.’" (Isaiah 43:5-6)
And
"He will raise a banner for the nations and gather the exiles of Israel; he will *assemble the scattered people of Judah from the four quarters of the earth."* (Isaiah 11:12)
When God sent the people of Israel into exile he promised them that after a period of time ALL the tribes of Israel would eventually be returned to their land.
"I will surely gather *_all of you,_* Jacob;
I will surely bring together the remnant of Israel.
I will bring them together like sheep in a pen,
like a flock in its pasture;
the place will throng with people." (Micah 2:12)
And
"Then they will know that I am the Lord their God, for though I sent them into exile among the nations, I will gather them to their own land, *not leaving any behind"* (Ezekiel 39:28)
Since this has not happened yet, we can only assume that it HAS to happen in the end times, otherwise God would be a liar.
And notice that when it does happen a "great trumpet" will be blown:
"And *in that day a great trumpet will sound.* Those who were perishing in Assyria and *those who were exiled in Egypt will come and worship the Lord on the holy mountain in Jerusalem."* (Isaiah 27:13)
Now with that in mind, notice how the events that Jesus lists in Matthew 24:29-31 line up closely with what we see in Revelation 6:12-7:1-8 - in exactly the same sequence:
MATTHEW: The sun and moon turn dark (Matthew 24:29)
REVELATION: "The sun turns black ... the moon turns blood red"
(Revelation 6:12)
MATTHEW: The stars fall from the sky (Matthew 24:29)
REVELATION: ".. and the stars in the sky fell to earth, " (Revelation 6:13)
MATTHEW: All the tribes of the earth grieve (Matthew 24:30)
REVELATION: "Then the kings of the earth, the princes, the generals, the rich, the mighty, and everyone else, both slave and free, hid in caves and among the rocks of the mountains. They called to the mountains and the rocks, “Fall on us and hide us from the face of him who sits on the throne and from the wrath of the Lamb! For the great day of their wrath has come, and who can withstand it?" (Revelation 6:13)
So if these things correspond to what Jesus said in Matthew 24:29-30 then the next event on the list we would expect to see in Revelation is the "gathering of the elect from the four winds." Right?
This my friend is _exactly_ what we see:
"After this I saw four angels standing at the *four corners of the earth,* holding back the *four winds of the earth* to prevent any wind from blowing on the land or on the sea or on any tree. Then I saw another angel coming up from the east, having the seal of the living God. He called out in a loud voice to the four angels who had been given power to harm the land and the sea: "Do not harm the land or the sea or the trees until we put a seal on the foreheads of the servants of our God." Then I heard the number of those who were sealed: 144,000 from *ALL the tribes of Israel."* (Revelation 7:1-4)
This is not the rapture, but the regathering of the lost tribes of Israel.
@paulbrennan4163 read Revelation 20 the tribulation come first in verse 4 and the First Resurrection (rapture) in verse 5...my point according to Jesus tribulation come before rapture. ..your long comment does not explain that rapture come first....
@@paulbrennan4163read Revelation 20 the tribulation come first in verse 4,then the first Resurrection (rapture) at verse 5....same as Mathew 24:21-31....your long comment doesn't point out that rapture will come before tribulation, maybe you don't understand what you reading.....so pre tribulation rapture have no bible proofs.
Also if Jesus knew that rapture will come before tribulation why he told the Judea to flee to the mountains,because the rapture will come after the tribulation.
Hope you understand now...
David, your father, Marvin missed a few things, and now you are missing the same things. Most bible students think "the tribulation" or the 70th Week of Daniel begins at the 1st seal. That is incorrect and is pulling the first seal out of its early church context. The truth is, just as your dad wrote, that the rapture must come just before the 6th seal start of God's wrath. Sadly, your father tried to move the 6th seal from where John placed it-between the 5th and 7th seals.
In Revelation 4 and 5, we see first (chapter 4) the Holy Spirit still in the throne room, then in chapter 5 Jesus ascension and Him sending the Holy Spirit down as soon as He arrived back in the throne room. Jesus ascended around 32 AD, entered the throne room, and went, right then, to take the book from the Father and began, right then, to open the first seals. The first seal, opened around 32 AD aligns with the great commission. It is to represent the CHURCH taking the GOSPEL to the world.
Seals 2, 3, and 4 are to represent the devil's attempts to stop the advance of the gospel. God has allowed Satan to use wars, famines, pestilences and wild beasts in his attempts.
Seal 5 is for the martyrs of the church age. They want to know when God will judge their murders, but are told that the time of judgment must wait for the FINAL church age martyr. In short, that is a huge hint to the time of the rapture, which will come just before the 6th seal start of wrath. Both your father and Robert Van Kampen believed that the rapture and the Day of the Lord will be back-to-back events. I also believe that. It fits what John wrote at the 5th and 6th seals.
With all that said, the 70th will will then begin a few days later at the opening of the 7th seal and with the first trumpet. Once God told me (in what seemed like an audible voice) that He has MARKED the entire 70th week. I found His markers: He marked the 70th week with SEVENS: the 7th seal begins the week, the 7th trumpet marks the midpoint and the week will end at the 7th bowl.
Since 6 comes before 7 in counting, we can KNOW the rapture will be pre-trib: it will come just before God's wrath begins at the 6th seal, with the "tribulation" or 70th week beginning at the 7th seal.
We can KNOW the rapture will be pre-trib because 7 comes before 8 in counting. John saw the church safely in heaven in Revelation 7, and then wrote of the start of the Week in chapter 8.
The theory that the Day of the Lord will not begin until somewhere in the middle of the last half of the 70th Week is nothing but imagination. It is one of the seals sealing the BOOK, and the trumpet judgments (probably the entire 70th week) are written INSIDE the book. It is absolutely impossible to move a seal to anywhere else. They have been and will continue to be opened in sequence.
Van Kampen TOTALLY MISSED IT when he imagined that all references to the sun turning dark were of ONE SINGLE event. The truth is, the sun will turn black, like it does in a total eclipse, as a sign for the start of the DAY: Revelation 6. But in Matthew 24, when the sun is "darkened," Strong tells us that if it is used for heavenly bodies, it means the absence of light-in other words, total darkness. This is the sign for Christ's coming to Armageddon-in Revelation chapter 19. Again, the sign for God's wrath and the DAY of His wrath is in Revelation 6.
These two signs, total eclipses first, then seven years later total darkness, are for two very different events.
We MUST let the scriptures speak for themselves.
Jesus asks the Father that we might all be one. John 17.
The Church cannot be found in Heaven in Revelation 5. Read it!
Chapter 6.9-11 is the same Church as 7.9-17, and as 19.1-10. Read these!
There is NO pre-trib rapture. Jesus calls the shots! Mt. 24.29-31.
There are scriptures supporting all four rapture perspectives. My final conclusion is to be mindful of all options as we don’t know which perspective the Lord will choose. He does say that nobody knows when and that it will be a surprise/ unexpected just like in the time of Noah.
In the times of Noah it was referring to the Unbelievers not being aware, We are aware because we study God's word, it also didn't come as a thief in the night to Noah because he spent years building the ark and so was prepared.
There are 2 catching ups pre for the church post for the jews when Christ returns after the trib. If you die now you will have your own private pre trib rapture.
The purpose of the tribulation, the purpose of the rapture, the meaning of 1 Thessalonians 5:9, and the interpretation of Revelation 3:10 all give clear support to the pre-tribulational position. If the Bible is interpreted literally and consistently, the pre-tribulational position is the most biblically-based interpretation.
The timing of the rapture in relation to the tribulation is one of the most controversial issues in the church today. The three primary views are pre-tribulational (the rapture occurs before the tribulation), mid-tribulational (the rapture occurs at or near the mid-point of the tribulation), and post-tribulational (the rapture occurs at the end of the tribulation). A fourth view, commonly known as pre-wrath, is a slight modification of the mid-tribulational position.
First, it is important to recognize the purpose of the tribulation. According to Daniel 9:27, there is a seventieth “seven” (seven years) that is still yet to come. Daniel’s entire prophecy of the seventy sevens (Daniel 9:20-27) is speaking of the nation of Israel. It is a time period in which God focuses His attention especially on Israel. The seventieth seven, the tribulation, must also be a time when God deals specifically with Israel. While this does not necessarily indicate that the church could not also be present, it does bring into question why the church would need to be on the earth during that time.
The primary Scripture passage on the rapture is 1 Thessalonians 4:13-18. It states that all living believers, along with all believers who have died, will meet the Lord Jesus in the air and will be with Him forever. The rapture is God’s removing of His people from the earth. A few verses later, in 1 Thessalonians 5:9, Paul says, “For God did not appoint us to suffer wrath but to receive salvation through our Lord Jesus Christ.” The book of Revelation, which deals primarily with the time period of the tribulation, is a prophetic message of how God will pour out His wrath upon the earth during the tribulation. It seems inconsistent for God to promise believers that they will not suffer wrath and then leave them on the earth to suffer through the wrath of the tribulation. The fact that God promises to deliver Christians from wrath shortly after promising to remove His people from the earth seems to link those two events together.
Another crucial passage on the timing of the rapture is Revelation 3:10, in which Christ promises to deliver believers from the “hour of trial” that is going to come upon the earth. This could mean two things. Either Christ will protect believers in the midst of the trials, or He will deliver believers out of the trials. Both are valid meanings of the Greek word translated “from.” However, it is important to recognize what believers are promised to be kept from. It is not just the trial, but the “hour” of trial. Christ is promising to keep believers from the very time period that contains the trials, namely the tribulation. The purpose of the tribulation, the purpose of the rapture, the meaning of 1 Thessalonians 5:9, and the interpretation of Revelation 3:10 all give clear support to the pre-tribulational position. If the Bible is interpreted literally and consistently, the pre-tribulational position is the most biblically-based interpretation.
www.gotquestions.org/rapture-tribulation.html
There is NO pre-tribulational Rapture in ALL of scripture!
If ANYONE is a believer, it will become readily apparent just
as soon as the Anti-Christ is revealed at the 5th seal, and chapter 13 begins. (2Thessalonians 2.1-17)
Jesus destroys him in the Lake of Fire in Revelation 19.11-21 and Isaiah 63.1-6.
If the pre-wrath rapture is scriptural, then where does the Dispensation of Grace ends? Obviously at almost the end of the 70th Week of Daniel? So the special Dispensation of the Tribulation begins at the Day of the Lord or when the Rapture takes place?
The question is are the seals an overview of the entire book or Rev? If that's the case, then the 6th seal happens in the middle someplace.
David - this was excellent - thank you!
Thank you for teaching truth
When you date Revelation is KEY. Because it's either about the destruction of Jerusalem in 70 AD or it's about the end of all things. It makes a huge difference in how you live your life. We should be looking for the return of our Lord period, none of this other guesswork. Just be ready and do not be deceived.
Take note: The KEY TIME FACTOR here is WHEN the appearance of the 2 WITNESSES/Prophets of God in relation to the 7-year Tribulation... The TIME allotted for them to Preach is 3.5 years (1260 Days) + 3.5 Days (their death/resurrection) =1263.5 Days and then, they will be taken to Heaven by God... If they start in the Middle of the 7-year Tribulation, they will go beyond by 3.5 days after the Tribulation has ended... therefore, the 1st RESURRECTION and RAPTURE will take place while the 2 Witnesses are still Preaching until the Wrath of God comes in while they are still Preaching till the End... but does not make any sense that the CHURCH is gone, while the 2 Witnesses are still preaching to finish the allotted time given by God. logically speaking...
No sense listening to this as he starts off totally wrong. To say that determining when the day of the Lord starts, is the key to when the rapture happens. He, like so many people, equates the 2ed coming of Jesus with the rapture. The rapture is NOT a coming of Jesus, it is an appearing. The key to the rapture is 2 Thessalonians chapter 2. Paul never gives any sign prior to the rapture. These post trib, pre-wrath people tell you that Jesus for told all the signs prior to the rapture, which is actually only His 2ed coming. So it comes down to who do you believe ? Jesus who actually never SPOKE about a rapture. Or Paul who spells it out completely in 1 Thes 4:13. I think I will go with the only guy who actually revealed it to us.
Sorry, I’m making comments as I go 😁 . I mentioned this in my previos post, but the trumpets have to start at the 3 1/2 year mark in order for the 2 witnesses to finish their ministry. How does the pre-wrath reconcile this point?
Interesting question
If the 2 witnesses are preaching from the Temple mount all during the first half when the Temple is being rebuilt (and the A/C goes into the Temple at the midpoint), then they are killed around the midpoint. I think the Rapture could happen when they are raised to life 3 1/2 days after being killed (and after the Abom of Des).
1 Thess 4:14 God brings with him the believers who have died, (that will be the souls, to be reunited with their body and then on to transformation). This ressurection is called the 1st resurrection. This occurence is referenced in Rev 20:5, and it happens at the beginning of the millennium. (That would be the end of the trib.)
QUESTIONS:... In Matt. 24:22 narrates that, if the Great Troubles/Tribulation (AntiChrist Persecution) will not be cut short (shortened), there will be no survivor from the People of God...
Q1?... When the Dreadful Day of the Lord comes (Wrath of God/Day of the Lord) will there be survivors from the Evil People?
Q2?... Surel;y there will be LEFT BEHIND People without the Mark of the Beast (both Christians and Non-Christians) after the Rapture Event, will they all survive the Wrath of God?
Q3?... Who will fight the Battle of Armageddon at the Foot of Mt. Megiddo, Israel... Immortal People of God ...VS... Mortal People of Satan?... it seems NO MATCH since the People of God will never taste the "Second Death."... even Satan knew it would be a waste of time...
Q4?... If Satan knew very well ahead of time that the Battle of Armageddon had no chance for him to win (Immortal VS. Mortal Combat), logically speaking, why fight the battle that has no literal chance to win?... that is called SUICIDE for all Mortal Men,
Q5?... How could you send your mortal men into the battlefield knowing they will all die for they are NO MATCH with the IMMORTAL People of God?
Q6?... How can Mortal Men fight the Immortal Men if they will never taste the Second Death?... Even if Satan gives more power to the Mortal Men, in the end, they will be defeated 100%
Perhaps it is not about Winning the Battle of Armageddon and Gog at Magog after the Millenial Reign of Christ... for Satan knew the MISMATCH already ahead of time... but to bring more people to Hell with Him and His Angels, that is Satan's winning victory / crowning glory and not the battle itself...
I hope and pray that my family and I will not be LEFT BEHIND, but if I am, I pray that no loved ones be by my side, for Satan will use them against my Freewill, for I am already preparing and preconditioning my Heart, Mind, Soul, and Strength to freely DIE without a fight for Spiritual Cause of my Soul... Praise be to God in Christ... Amen
There were a lot of days of noah. Christ only mention the verse you quoted. He didn't include when noah boarded the arc & closed the door. Just what was happening during the days of noah. In other words not what happened to noah, , but was happening when noah lived
I have been pre-wrath for 30 years due to a day of the Lord/Christ's coming study that was prompted by a tape set of your father's on Thessalonians.
I do have to disagree on the time of great tribulation not being worldwide.
This is due to Rev 3:10 (which pre-tribbers misuse), Rev 13:7, 16-17.
Of course we don't know if there will be much if anything left of countries outside the middle east by then either, so...
I am a pre-wrath teacher myself, but I would like to hear from other pre-wrath brethren, and explanation of Matthew 1324 through 30
And 37 through 43
Jesus bless!
Brother..the Jesus quoted the Rapture on Matthew 24:29-31..John quotes it in Revelation 6:12..the sun being darkened,moon being turned into blood,after the days are shortened.After the Rapture,we see the wrath of God starts in Revelation6:18..Revelation 7 is when the 7 th seal is opened but just before that in Revelation 7:1-3 we hear the 4 Angels who were send by Jesus in Matthew 24 :31 also sealing the Foreheads of the 144,000 who will be here on earth ministering during the 7 plagues/vials of Gods wrath.They are also mentioned in Revelation 9:4 the 144,000.
In Revelation Chapter 7:9 John takes us back to heaven after the sealing of the 144,000 to show us what is happening there..in Revelation 7:13 he reveals that Christians were killed in the Great tribulation...The 7 plagues are also quoted in Revelation chapter 15:1-2 while we are in heaven worshipping before the throne
THE second coming is in Revelation 19:11,the judgement of the Righteous who will rule with Jesus is on revelation 20:4 followed by the Millennial kingdom.Thats my understanding..be blessed
*WRATH is AAAAAAFTER the 7th Trumpet, so saith:*
#1)The 24 Elders, *Rev.11:15-*18-19*
#2)The Holy Spirit inspired John, *Rev.15:1, 7*
#3)THE VOICE from THE Temple, *Rev.16:1*
*Rev.6:*17 is AAAAAAFTER the 6th Seal is opened and are the words of FEARFUL *men** which contradict the 3 Witnesses of Scripture posted above.
*JUDGEMENT of the people of Earth* comes AAAAAAFTER the number of MARTYRS is completed, **Rev.6:9-11* which comes AAAAAAFTER the first 3 1/2 years:
*Dan.**7:25**-27*
*Dan.12:*7*
*Rev.13:*7*
@@Jacobbethel If you KNEW the scriptures,
you would know that the Wrath of God is EXPLICITLY STATED as the 6th seal,
in Revelation 6.12-17, and DETAILED in all of chapter 18.
That story about the Seder is tradition, not biblical. Just saying.
Where does the 7 year period come from. Which scriptures please 😊
From their mental gymnastics 😂
Daniel 9:24
From Daniel 9. A week of years (70th week) yet to go. Also Revelation (3 1/2 + 3 1/2).
Mr. Rosenthal, Marvin, did he go to be with the Lord last year? Great life and mission that we still celebrate! Only bummer is that 70 didn't take off yet, Lord's will letting! I owe him, David and the Staff there! Soundest Biblical position on the Rapture that's out there!
The bible is VERY clear that we ALL go through tribulation and must persevere THROUGH it. We are NOT saved FROM it! That is Dispensational theology to think that we are saved before tribulation. Example: Noah was saved by going THROUGH the flood and was not spared FROM it. That is a foreshadowing of the end times. See 1 Thessalonians 4:15-17. The bible supports a post-trib view. It does not support a pre-trib view.
The book of Revelation describes 7 plagues, not 7 years of tribulation. The 7 plagues happen in a span of about 1 year.
2 Thess. 2:8 states the reveal of the man of sin occurs at the return of Christ which destroys him, which would rule out the AOD.
Thank you so much for the simple way of explaining this. I already read your father's book, and I also met him, and he was wonderful, chatting with me in the 90's, in Toronto. He was in the middle of writing a sequel to The Prewrath Rapture Of The Church book, about the foolish and the wise virgins. I'm not sure if he finished the book or not. God bless you!
Outstanding teaching... Very clear and concise outline and arrangement of the Scriptures.
I don't think I can listen to this I used to believe it but the Bible is very clear. One resurrection of believers and one second coming. The return of Jesus is the same thing as a rapture. God's judgment is not going to affect believers but we will be here until the second coming.
Sorry but this is clear as mud to me.
Birth pangs are happening now but you show them fitting within tribulations first half only?
And how can you cut the 2nd 3-1/2 years in half when God clearly said 1260 days on BOTH sides of tribulation?
Non of this is adding up for me.
Excellent. Spot on!
What is the biblical explanation of the teaching of the 144,000 so late on the tribulation time line? Second, are you teaching the literal “Day” of the Lord or do you believe it to be a season of time? Thanks
The post trib pre wrath position is that God's wrath is poured out after the tribulation for a period of time, not one literal day; and it will culminate with Armageddon and the beginning of the millennial reign, thus signifying the end of Daniel's 70th week. The 144,000 preach the gospel after the great tribulation, just before or during the outpouring of God's wrath. Those who believe the gospel and survive the outpouring of God's wrath go into the millennium in physical, non-glorified bodies because they missed the post tribulational, pre wrath gathering of the saints. Post trib, post wrath believers believe the day of the LORD to be one literal day.Hope this helps. God bless you, Ken.
Okay, trying to understand your idea, we will meet Christ in the clouds, then go before his judgement seat, then be immediately placed into his army to join him for the battle of Armageddon? He tells us he will go to prepare a place for us, in your mind, where does he prepare them? How long will we remain there? I’m very confused.
The outpouring of God’s wrath could take months or even years, not days or weeks..
Could the argument also be made that Paul himself had not yet been " caught up in the 3rd Heaven!" When he wrote : 1 Corinthians 15:51-52 NIV
[51] Listen, I tell you a mystery: We will not all sleep, but we will all be changed- [52] in a flash, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, the dead will be raised imperishable, and we will be changed.
Pre-trib can evoke a feeling or life of laziness visions of grandeur
Paul calls it the blessed hope.
So what is the thirty minutes of silence about?
Martha said to him, "I know that he will rise again in the resurrection on the last day."
John 11:24 (ESV) Rapture in the same moment.
Post Trib, pre wrath…sure. If you separate the two…But we’re still gonna be here with immortal bodies. We’re gonna be here through it all…but we will be changed at his return, then the wrath is poured out.
The 7 year timeframe , is it based on the concept that the {beginning of sorrows} is only 3 1/2 years long?
Corinthians' understanding of the "last trump" may also be explained in Zechariah 9.
So,Sir,2 Thess 2 is not a "christain apostasy"?
So many assumptions associated with the prewrath doctrine.
And the pre trib doctrine doesn’t do the same exact thing ?