I've said it before, I'll say it again; not only is Dorati's set the reference, and it just might remain so for all time, to my mind it represents a notable high point in both European culture and modern recorded music. When you consider the absolute commitment provided by Dorati, Robbins Landon, the Philharmonia Hungarica, supported by Decca's at the time massive resources, it was and remains to this day an astonishing achievement. For many it's Solti's Ring, for me it's Dorati's Haydn--the absolute crown jewel of my collection. Incidentally Dave, I never took the plunge over Derek Solomons partial Haydn set, and I've heard so much about it over the years, so I look forward to your future video for guidance. If anyone else out there is familiar with Solomons effort, I'd love to hear from you. Thanks and take care!
I found some of Solomons' Haydn recordings to be extraordinary back in the LP days, and I worked hard to track down what I could find on CD. I am neither a musician nor an expert on performance practice, but I would second Dave's point that these are HIP performances that are not too fast and hard-pressed. Some of the recordings might seem too small scale (the orchestra is under 20 performers, as I recall), but as the series went on the CBS engineers did a great job at ensuring there was striking transparency and plenty of power. Musical friends of mine noted some performance flaws, but I never even noticed. In my inexpert opinion, Solomons' Nos. 44 and 48 are simply the finest recordings of those works ever. I do not think you'll be sorry if you pick up the box! (And what a pity that more could not have been recorded.)
Managed to get all but 2 volumes online from a charity shop last year. Was so pleased! I've already been through them all and love the performances. Since found the the two missing parts! I am complete 😊
This was a great historic achievement and one of the most obvious Reference recordings. It's strange to think that in the early 1900s Tovey was writing that many Haydn symphonies were virtually unknown except in four-hand piano transcriptions because there wasn't even an accepted full set of orchestral scores! We are so lucky nowadays.
I was in the middle of collecting Dorati's Haydn set on LP when the CD onslaught happened. Right after I switched over to CD's (I was late to the party - I held out until early 1988), at some point Decca released their mid-price sets (4 cd's per box) and I acquired the cycle that way. I was so thrilled to get it at last! Great performances all the way through. I've never heard anything to criticize particularly, and it really seems like it was a labor of love from everyone involved.
Haydn has been my favourite composer for many years, but mostly because of the chamber music. With the Haydn symphony crusade (really looking forward to #54), you have made me appreciate the symphonies much more.
My late wife gave me this set about 10 years ago for a birthday. Last year I systematically slugged through the entire set over a few months (having, of course, heard the London and Paris symphonies back when she gave them to me. I remember when it came out off LP (aka vinyl). Dave is right...if you want all of. your Haydn symphonies in one place, this is a rewarding set consistently delivered at a high level. While I have other sets covering the Paris and London symphonies, I don't feel I ever go wrong listening to Dorati's version of any of them.
I purchased at the same time in the early 2000s three Haydn boxes on Decca: the symphonies (Dorati), the sonatas (McCabe) and the quartets (Aeolian). They are one of the treasures of my cd collection. Haydn gave birth and consistency to the main musical shapes that would define XIXth century instrumental music: symphony, piano sonata, string quartet. After Haydn, the composers could expand or twist these shapes, but never reach its pristine perfection. And, as much as I adore Beethoven, I cannot help but consider him the beginning of a certain "decadence" compared to Haydn's and Mozart's olympic supremacy. The McCabe box is also a jewel.
Thank you! have it as well ☺️ but i purchased it 5 years ago. Incredible stuff. Even his operas, which I thought were the weak point in the Haydn corpus, I will have to reconsider, after going to a performance of Orlando Palladino last year. ¡Que viva Haydn!
@@holgadoencinasraul2820 Among Haydn's operas, I recommend you in particular "La fedeltà premiata", also by Antal Dorati with a wonderful casting : a treasure ! Dorati recorded 8 Haydn operas.
Thanks a lot for your kind recommendation. I don't know Haydn's operas very well. I attended a performance of "L 'isola disabitata" years ago and thought it was sweet but minor. But last year, Orlando Palladino blew my mind. I will give a try to La fedeltà premiata! :)
@@philippecassagne3192 except the Beaux Arts set isn’t Decca really, it’s Philips originally, all this relabelling is bad, it’s not the Decca sound, great set though
I was lucky enough to acquire the complete set on LP , AND to play them all! 🙂 I have never felt that I had a complete knowledge or even appreciation of all 104 plus works and still love to delve and explore and always will. The LP set went to a lucky friend after I moved to CD and I am sure that they are still being played and providing much pleasure.
Like me, you are ideal fodder for the Haydn Symphony Crusade. It opens the ears on individual works, where the tendency is to think of Haydn's symphonies in sets. Warning: will lead to epiphanies.
I got the box in the early days of the euro, in 2002. I know it because the tag specifies the price in euros (just over 180) and pesetas. The day I bought it I had saved my younger daughter from choking on a chunk of tangerine, so I rewarded myself with a concert and the Haydn set. I also had a box of Strum und Drang symphonies by Trevor Pinnock and The English Concert, which I loaned (in the end, gifted) to a friend. I enjoy those recordings above Dorati's, but the latter has all the symphonies.
For me, one of the great moments in the Dorati cycle is that gorgeous second movement of the Symphony No. 63, which gave the name to the symphony, "La Roxelane." The end of the movement, as it shifts to C major with full horns and strings, is just glorious, and I don't care if it's authentic or not: the case for big band Haydn made, irrefutably. Robbins Landon writes in the notes that that movement "must have brought the house down at Esterhaza," and only Dorati and the Philharmonia Hungarica make you understand why!
Somehow even after 20 years of classical music listening Haydn still has to be my least known composer. God knows what I am missing. I know his string quartets of op.76 and his cello concertos, but I am sure that if far from the bulk of his achievements, maybe this box set is my path...
Well, you could knock me down with a feather! I was in Eisenstadt, Austria 2 days ago going round the Esterházy Palace, thinking a lot about Haydn, dipping into H.C Robbins Landon's Chronicle (online) and then lo and behold, this...!
The "problem" with Haydn is that, unlike the other major composers where you can point to a handful of instantly accessible masterpieces to introduce people to, Haydn's genius is both more subtle and more spread out over a vast ouevre. Yeah, you can tell people to listen to the London Symphonies and The Creation and a few of the late Quartets, but even those don't really capture his genius, especially not independent of how much Haydn developed these forms and genres from what they were before. I almost feel like Haydn is best appreciated after someone has explored the music of CPE Bach and JC Bach; but unfortunately too many come to Haydn after Mozart and don't get what the fuss is. In terms of symphony cycles I'm curious what Dave's thoughts are on the Naxos set and the ongoing "Haydn 2032" set from Alpha. The Dorati is the one I've heard all the way through, but I've been interested in exploring another just to have a comparison basis.
The timing! 😊 Three weeks ago I bought this including the appendix of additional music on so money LPs! It will take me months and years to get to know them remotely well ... ! But I started at either end, and the records are in superb condition, so that the performances shine though. I cannot imagine me having long enough left to make a comparative cycle journey! But everything I have so far listened to is so much to my liking. I do love the music of Haydn. In reality, if I had to choose only two composers whom I could not do without, it would be FJ Haydn and JS Bach. I previously asked for your reco for a cycle, but sheer economics have led me by luck to your reference! Seems random, but it is not. If there were a question about it, then a different cycle would have found me. It is such a huge thing to obtain in one go that it gets left for another day, and after fifty-four years of getting records, this Dorati cycle has come to me, and the pleasure it has already brought is already worth the trouble of driving half way across the country to fetch a heavy box full of multi-LP boxes of great music ... I shall not be parting with any of my other records of Haydn Symphonies for this, but it is the best music purchase I have made in a good three decades! Please do carry on with the Haydn Symphony Crusade, and now I'll have something to go to to examine the points you have made! Thanks and best wishes from George
Thanks, Dave, for getting around to expounding on this great Haydn symphony cycle that richly deserves its reference status. From my youth I've been totally fascinated by two composers who managed to maximize two very different functions simultaneously--namely, quantity and quality in a particular genre. Those two are Bach and Haydn, and the genres are Cantatas and Symphonies/String Quartets respectively. Along the way of my explorations, I have at various times heard all of the Bach Cantata cycles and al of the Haydn symphony cycles. Fischer is pretty good, and the Naxos cycle with various conductors and ensembles is even better; and Märzendorfer deserves credit. But Dorati still reigns supreme, and I am increasingly inclined to appreciate the fulsome sonorities of a modern instrument ensemble, such as Dorati's Hungarians. I'm happy that Sony has reissued both the Goberman and Solomons incomplete cycles, both of which are excellent. Can't wait for your review of Solomons.
There's another cycle-in-progress that should be mentioned -- the Haydn 2032 cycle with Giovanni Antonini, split between two orchestras (Giardino Armonico and Basel Chamber Orchestra). I've greatly enjoyed most of what I've heard of that cycle; compared to the other cycle in progress (the Heidelberg, which is much much closer to completion), I find, as expected, that in some cases I prefer Fey (and successors) and in others I prefer Antonini. Fey has particular quirks (possibly Harnoncourt-inspired) that I personally don't like and which Antonini generally avoids; on the other hand, Antonini can be a bit plain sometimes (not always, not even mostly, but sometimes). Just my personal view, of course
For those who don't want to pay big money for this set Apple music has the set. You can't transfer the music to disks but at least you would have the complete set on your phone or computer. Get a pair of decent blue tooth speakers and away you go. Amazon also has parts of this set used and you could pick and choose what 4 pack of disks you would like if they are available. The set is in 8 4 packs of desks and as mentioned if they are used you may not get liner notes.
Decca, for once, handled this project so intelligently. Selling boxes of, usually, 12, mostly unfamiliar symphonies at midprice and with those incredible booklet notes by Robbins Landon. I remember eagerly buying each new box as it came out and heading to the university library for those handy hardcover HCRL miniature score volumes of six or so and absorbing the music with the records. The cds came much later, but I kept those booklets. To me it was immediately apparent that even the earliest Haydn symphonies held so much more interest that early Mozart. The Dorati is still my only complete set along with other artists for the Paris and London sets and miscellaneous other works.
Good point about Mozart. It's noticeable that only a few of his symphonies really appear in the repertory; 25, 29, the Paris and the last 6, and maybe 34. As 29 is only K201 in the chronological list, that tells us much of the reason. Unlike the piano concertos which are mainly in the K400s.
David, I thought you had two cats. I can't argue this as being "the reference" recording and I really enjoyed your remarks in other videos about this cycle. I realize my personal favorite Haydn cycle is almost universally panned but I like the Stuttgarter Kammerorchester / Dennis Russell Davies cycle (Sony) and I'm sticking to it.
At the same time when the Dorati were released, the Aeolian Quartet did the Haydn Quartets - all of them- possibly the first. And they were excellent. But seem to have been forgotten...they SHOULD be reference but...
The String Quartets have a lot more competition these days than the symphonies do. There has to be close to a dozen complete or near-complete sets now. The Aeolian also didn't spend as much time as the "only" set compared to Dorati's symphonies because Angeles was released not terribly long afterwards and I think Angeles was better played and recorded. Auryn, Festetics, and London Haydn Quartet have some excellent modern sets as well.
I’d love to have this set, but, woe is me, the prices for it on Discogs, eBay, and Amazon! Now this video comes out, with the effect of buoying the prices for a few more years. 😭😭😭 Dave, please, give a guy a chance: no more Haydn / Dorati reviews until the market cools down. 😉 (Just kidding!) Keep up the great work! If it weren’t for your channel, I wouldn’t have known to look for the Dorati set in the first place.
I love the recording of Symphony 68 - one of my very favourites! Not a piece of music but I would highly recommend Dorati’s appearance on Desert Island Discs
Dang! And here I bought two sets of the Adam Fischer edition, one for my home in America, and the other for my home in Austria. Had I only known...! 😮💨
I own the Adam Fischer cycle & i'm happy i have it. Got it when i bought the Haydn edition on Brilliant Classics because i wanted to get the Baryton trios.
I bought the box set back in the 90s when it was first transferred to CDs and I've listened to all of them with great pleasure many times over. I've also seen this complete set here on TH-cam, so they can be listed to with having to buy the CDs.
Had some of the LP sets but luck stuck in 2009 when I was living in Japan and I bought the entire box set for ¥1000 (which at that time was about $10) such a deal. Wonderful set.
I had the Dorati set on both LP and CD.I agree about consistency but I gaver them both up and bought the Adam Fischer.I agree with your comment about the London Symphonies which I bought when they first came out.Years later I bought the Brilliant Classics complete box which I am generally pleased with.The problem with the set that it took ten years to complete by which time by so called "authenticists ? had arrived and when Fischer completed his set he wanted to record some again.Eventually I think Naxos agreed and he did some in Denmark which I think got generally bad reviews in the UK
I agree with this choice, and it's not because I've heard no other cycles. I also have the Adam Fischer cycle as well as the Hogwood and Brüggen partial cycles (before they were bundled together to form a cycle with the gaps filled in by Dantone.). The Fischer is actually better than Dorati in some of the early and middle symphonies but is much worse in the later ones (especially in the sonics, as Dave says). Over all, the Dorati has a better average performance level, and it has the advantage of being the first cycle easily available (outside of MHS). The Hogwood-Brüggen-Dantone cycle is mostly quite good in the Brüggen-conducted symphonies; however, Hogwood seems to have a pretty low energy level in the ones he conducts, and he leaves out (sometimes dubious) trumpet or drum parts in many of them. I am also glad to learn that the Derek Solomons partial cycle has been reissued. I have two volumes of that set previously issued on CD, but I may splurge for the entire box if it gets good reviews and has a reasonable price. I like what I've heard of it. I wonder if Warner/Nonesuch or PYE will ever reissue the Leslie Jones/Little Orchestra of London partial cycle on CD; those were my first exploration of pre-#82 Haydn symphonies. As for the early Maerzendorfer cycle on MHS, I have one LP (symphonies 50 & 51) of it that MHS pushed as a promotion back in the early 1970s. My recollection of it was that it was good but nothing special; at the time I had no other version against which to compare it. Once I had collected the Dorati cycle on LP, I had no motivation to collect Maerzendorfer since I didn't intentionally duplicate works on my student budget at the time.
I agree Fischer is better in soeme early and middle symphonies and to Paris and London we have others better than both. That´s why I dont listen to Dorati most of the time.
David has introduced me (us) to so much wonderful repertoire I feel almost guilty that I just don't get Haydn's symphonies. Sure I have enormous respect that he invented the genre but for me it's a case of that I should like them more than I do. What's more, I feel that Mozart's pre-Haffner symphonies deserve much more than invidious comparison with those of Haydn. That said, in regards to H's other immortal invention, the string quartets, his have rarely been equaled and never surpassed. Go figure.
it sounds like you've listened to a lot of Haydn before arriving to this conclusion, but if you decide to give another opportunity to his symphonies, I suggest you the number 44th "Trauer" (mourning). It was my first Haydn symphony and made me forever fall in love with him.
While I have no doubt Dorati deserves to be the reference, unfortunately I can't justify (read: afford...) the money for a used one. Maybe it will be reissued at some point, until then I'll have to be content with Fischer and other miscellaneous recordings. There's certainly no doubt in my mind anymore that Haydn was a genius on par with anyone else in Western music, so I'll gladly take whatever I can get. I'm just grateful I've finally matured enough as a listener to truly appreciate his genius.
Who else did complete Haydn sets? Around how many Haydn symphonies did Marriner do with rhe ASMF? Dave do you feel period instrument Ensembles dont stack up as well?
There is one vital piece of information missing: is there a harpsinoodle cording along, or is there not? I seem to remember there was, but I could be wrong (I have proved this any times). I am, though, overall very happy with Fischer's set, which I bought on Nimbus as they came out (and even before the last instalment became available, it could be had in a big box for next to no money... Arghhh!) but the London symphonies really won't do at all. I replaced those with Jochum's set, which I love even though there are moments where he's a bit over-fleet, not helped by his reluctance to do repeats. Still - a magnificent London set.
I expressed this in another of you videos that I think Haydn's late masses were a extension of his symphony output taken to its logical conclusion....the masses are SO symphonic in scope....precursors of the Beethoven 9th perhaps??????
Have the Adam Fischer 1 to 92 ,Colin Davis for the London symphonies. I agree, the sound from Nimbus is a little flat and dull but just a little middle to high eq does the trick. Can't seem to find a satisfying 88 to 92, to me the ones I've heard sound dry and flat.
The booklet in the edition shown in the video just has basic information such as tempo indications and timings. There is a Wikipedia page with a list of Haydn symphonies where you can find some information on each piece, including the two unnumbered ones.
It is on Spotify and probably other streaming services. It’s available for download from Presto Music, though sadly without a digital copy of the booklet. Not ideal, but at least one can hear the music.
Maybe if you let the cats create their own content (e.g. board game reviews, Reddit post reaction videos), and maybe they'd be more willing to participate in yours.
Dorati is, I think, unavailable. Which raises an interesting question. What does it mean when a reference recording is unavailable for an extended period of time?
It means that Haydn's Legacy (classical music as a whole? even culture?) is in the hands of dealers who don't consider it profitable enough for their excel tables, kpi's and growth rates.
I have to admit, Dorati's versions were what turned me off Haydn. I was lucky enough to have access to several of the LP boxes. When I started your Haydn Symphony Crusade I listed to Ádám Fischer and Dorati, successively. I am not sure if the early Haydn symphonies are served well by Dorati. They put me to sleep. However, I find the Fischer more dynamic and engaging. I've now reached 44. I listened to both Dorati and Fischer. Now they're neck to neck. But still Fischer wins. I've heard that Fischer's interpretation of Haydn's late symphonies are the worst. So for now I'm ok!
“He alone [Haydn] has the secret of making me smile and touching me to the bottom of my soul.” - W.A Mozart
I've said it before, I'll say it again; not only is Dorati's set the reference, and it just might remain so for all time, to my mind it represents a notable high point in both European culture and modern recorded music. When you consider the absolute commitment provided by Dorati, Robbins Landon, the Philharmonia Hungarica, supported by Decca's at the time massive resources, it was and remains to this day an astonishing achievement. For many it's Solti's Ring, for me it's Dorati's Haydn--the absolute crown jewel of my collection. Incidentally Dave, I never took the plunge over Derek Solomons partial Haydn set, and I've heard so much about it over the years, so I look forward to your future video for guidance. If anyone else out there is familiar with Solomons effort, I'd love to hear from you. Thanks and take care!
I found some of Solomons' Haydn recordings to be extraordinary back in the LP days, and I worked hard to track down what I could find on CD. I am neither a musician nor an expert on performance practice, but I would second Dave's point that these are HIP performances that are not too fast and hard-pressed. Some of the recordings might seem too small scale (the orchestra is under 20 performers, as I recall), but as the series went on the CBS engineers did a great job at ensuring there was striking transparency and plenty of power. Musical friends of mine noted some performance flaws, but I never even noticed. In my inexpert opinion, Solomons' Nos. 44 and 48 are simply the finest recordings of those works ever. I do not think you'll be sorry if you pick up the box! (And what a pity that more could not have been recorded.)
Managed to get all but 2 volumes online from a charity shop last year. Was so pleased! I've already been through them all and love the performances. Since found the the two missing parts! I am complete 😊
This was a great historic achievement and one of the most obvious Reference recordings. It's strange to think that in the early 1900s Tovey was writing that many Haydn symphonies were virtually unknown except in four-hand piano transcriptions because there wasn't even an accepted full set of orchestral scores! We are so lucky nowadays.
I was in the middle of collecting Dorati's Haydn set on LP when the CD onslaught happened. Right after I switched over to CD's (I was late to the party - I held out until early 1988), at some point Decca released their mid-price sets (4 cd's per box) and I acquired the cycle that way. I was so thrilled to get it at last! Great performances all the way through. I've never heard anything to criticize particularly, and it really seems like it was a labor of love from everyone involved.
Haydn has been my favourite composer for many years, but mostly because of the chamber music. With the Haydn symphony crusade (really looking forward to #54), you have made me appreciate the symphonies much more.
My late wife gave me this set about 10 years ago for a birthday. Last year I systematically slugged through the entire set over a few months (having, of course, heard the London and Paris symphonies back when she gave them to me. I remember when it came out off LP (aka vinyl). Dave is right...if you want all of. your Haydn symphonies in one place, this is a rewarding set consistently delivered at a high level. While I have other sets covering the Paris and London symphonies, I don't feel I ever go wrong listening to Dorati's version of any of them.
I purchased at the same time in the early 2000s three Haydn boxes on Decca: the symphonies (Dorati), the sonatas (McCabe) and the quartets (Aeolian).
They are one of the treasures of my cd collection.
Haydn gave birth and consistency to the main musical shapes that would define XIXth century instrumental music: symphony, piano sonata, string quartet.
After Haydn, the composers could expand or twist these shapes, but never reach its pristine perfection.
And, as much as I adore Beethoven, I cannot help but consider him the beginning of a certain "decadence" compared to Haydn's and Mozart's olympic supremacy.
The McCabe box is also a jewel.
There is a 4th remarkable Haydn box on Decca : his complete piano trios by the Beaux Arts trio. You would love it !
Thank you! have it as well ☺️ but i purchased it 5 years ago.
Incredible stuff.
Even his operas, which I thought were the weak point in the Haydn corpus, I will have to reconsider, after going to a performance of Orlando Palladino last year.
¡Que viva Haydn!
@@holgadoencinasraul2820 Among Haydn's operas, I recommend you in particular "La fedeltà premiata", also by Antal Dorati with a wonderful casting : a treasure ! Dorati recorded 8 Haydn operas.
Thanks a lot for your kind recommendation.
I don't know Haydn's operas very well.
I attended a performance of "L 'isola disabitata" years ago and thought it was sweet but minor.
But last year, Orlando Palladino blew my mind.
I will give a try to La fedeltà premiata! :)
@@philippecassagne3192 except the Beaux Arts set isn’t Decca really, it’s Philips originally, all this relabelling is bad, it’s not the Decca sound, great set though
I was lucky enough to acquire the complete set on LP , AND to play them all! 🙂 I have never felt that I had a complete knowledge or even appreciation of all 104 plus works and still love to delve and explore and always will. The LP set went to a lucky friend after I moved to CD and I am sure that they are still being played and providing much pleasure.
Like me, you are ideal fodder for the Haydn Symphony Crusade. It opens the ears on individual works, where the tendency is to think of Haydn's symphonies in sets. Warning: will lead to epiphanies.
That box set/collection stole my heart the 1st time I heard it in the early 80's ❤
I got the box in the early days of the euro, in 2002. I know it because the tag specifies the price in euros (just over 180) and pesetas. The day I bought it I had saved my younger daughter from choking on a chunk of tangerine, so I rewarded myself with a concert and the Haydn set. I also had a box of Strum und Drang symphonies by Trevor Pinnock and The English Concert, which I loaned (in the end, gifted) to a friend. I enjoy those recordings above Dorati's, but the latter has all the symphonies.
Reference Australia, here’s your next box. Oh, get working on the G&S D’oyly Carte box as well!
For me, one of the great moments in the Dorati cycle is that gorgeous second movement of the Symphony No. 63, which gave the name to the symphony, "La Roxelane." The end of the movement, as it shifts to C major with full horns and strings, is just glorious, and I don't care if it's authentic or not: the case for big band Haydn made, irrefutably. Robbins Landon writes in the notes that that movement "must have brought the house down at Esterhaza," and only Dorati and the Philharmonia Hungarica make you understand why!
Somehow even after 20 years of classical music listening Haydn still has to be my least known composer. God knows what I am missing. I know his string quartets of op.76 and his cello concertos, but I am sure that if far from the bulk of his achievements, maybe this box set is my path...
A box of infinite pleasures!
Haydn was consistently good in just about everything he did.
Well, you could knock me down with a feather! I was in Eisenstadt, Austria 2 days ago going round the Esterházy Palace, thinking a lot about Haydn, dipping into H.C Robbins Landon's Chronicle (online) and then lo and behold, this...!
Have this Dorati edition, and I am listening to it now. Thanks for inspiring me. Love Haydn very much, but I'm not a Haydn person.
The "problem" with Haydn is that, unlike the other major composers where you can point to a handful of instantly accessible masterpieces to introduce people to, Haydn's genius is both more subtle and more spread out over a vast ouevre. Yeah, you can tell people to listen to the London Symphonies and The Creation and a few of the late Quartets, but even those don't really capture his genius, especially not independent of how much Haydn developed these forms and genres from what they were before. I almost feel like Haydn is best appreciated after someone has explored the music of CPE Bach and JC Bach; but unfortunately too many come to Haydn after Mozart and don't get what the fuss is.
In terms of symphony cycles I'm curious what Dave's thoughts are on the Naxos set and the ongoing "Haydn 2032" set from Alpha. The Dorati is the one I've heard all the way through, but I've been interested in exploring another just to have a comparison basis.
The timing! 😊
Three weeks ago I bought this including the appendix of additional music on so money LPs! It will take me months and years to get to know them remotely well ... !
But I started at either end, and the records are in superb condition, so that the performances shine though.
I cannot imagine me having long enough left to make a comparative cycle journey!
But everything I have so far listened to is so much to my liking. I do love the music of Haydn. In reality, if I had to choose only two composers whom I could not do without, it would be FJ Haydn and JS Bach.
I previously asked for your reco for a cycle, but sheer economics have led me by luck to your reference!
Seems random, but it is not. If there were a question about it, then a different cycle would have found me. It is such a huge thing to obtain in one go that it gets left for another day, and after fifty-four years of getting records, this Dorati cycle has come to me, and the pleasure it has already brought is already worth the trouble of driving half way across the country to fetch a heavy box full of multi-LP boxes of great music ...
I shall not be parting with any of my other records of Haydn Symphonies for this, but it is the best music purchase I have made in a good three decades!
Please do carry on with the Haydn Symphony Crusade, and now I'll have something to go to to examine the points you have made!
Thanks and best wishes from George
Thanks, Dave, for getting around to expounding on this great Haydn symphony cycle that richly deserves its reference status. From my youth I've been totally fascinated by two composers who managed to maximize two very different functions simultaneously--namely, quantity and quality in a particular genre. Those two are Bach and Haydn, and the genres are Cantatas and Symphonies/String Quartets respectively. Along the way of my explorations, I have at various times heard all of the Bach Cantata cycles and al of the Haydn symphony cycles. Fischer is pretty good, and the Naxos cycle with various conductors and ensembles is even better; and Märzendorfer deserves credit. But Dorati still reigns supreme, and I am increasingly inclined to appreciate the fulsome sonorities of a modern instrument ensemble, such as Dorati's Hungarians. I'm happy that Sony has reissued both the Goberman and Solomons incomplete cycles, both of which are excellent. Can't wait for your review of Solomons.
There's another cycle-in-progress that should be mentioned -- the Haydn 2032 cycle with Giovanni Antonini, split between two orchestras (Giardino Armonico and Basel Chamber Orchestra). I've greatly enjoyed most of what I've heard of that cycle; compared to the other cycle in progress (the Heidelberg, which is much much closer to completion), I find, as expected, that in some cases I prefer Fey (and successors) and in others I prefer Antonini. Fey has particular quirks (possibly Harnoncourt-inspired) that I personally don't like and which Antonini generally avoids; on the other hand, Antonini can be a bit plain sometimes (not always, not even mostly, but sometimes). Just my personal view, of course
For those who don't want to pay big money for this set Apple music has the set. You can't transfer the music to disks but at least you would have the complete set on your phone or computer. Get a pair of decent blue tooth speakers and away you go. Amazon also has parts of this set used and you could pick and choose what 4 pack of disks you would like if they are available. The set is in 8 4 packs of desks and as mentioned if they are used you may not get liner notes.
I love the Dorati set
Decca, for once, handled this project so intelligently. Selling boxes of, usually, 12, mostly unfamiliar symphonies at midprice and with those incredible booklet notes by Robbins Landon. I remember eagerly buying each new box as it came out and heading to the university library for those handy hardcover HCRL miniature score volumes of six or so and absorbing the music with the records. The cds came much later, but I kept those booklets.
To me it was immediately apparent that even the earliest Haydn symphonies held so much more interest that early Mozart. The Dorati is still my only complete set along with other artists for the Paris and London sets and miscellaneous other works.
Good point about Mozart. It's noticeable that only a few of his symphonies really appear in the repertory; 25, 29, the Paris and the last 6, and maybe 34. As 29 is only K201 in the chronological list, that tells us much of the reason. Unlike the piano concertos which are mainly in the K400s.
Been years since I put Haydn on. I will check this out.
I paused this to listen to Derek Solomons & L'estro Armnico .. thanks David
David, I thought you had two cats.
I can't argue this as being "the reference" recording and I really enjoyed your remarks in other videos about this cycle.
I realize my personal favorite Haydn cycle is almost universally panned but I like the Stuttgarter Kammerorchester / Dennis Russell Davies cycle (Sony) and I'm sticking to it.
All the Dorati Haydn symphonies can be listened to on TH-cam.
They’re on Spotify too.
At the same time when the Dorati were released, the Aeolian Quartet did the Haydn Quartets - all of them- possibly the first. And they were excellent.
But seem to have been forgotten...they SHOULD be reference but...
The String Quartets have a lot more competition these days than the symphonies do. There has to be close to a dozen complete or near-complete sets now. The Aeolian also didn't spend as much time as the "only" set compared to Dorati's symphonies because Angeles was released not terribly long afterwards and I think Angeles was better played and recorded. Auryn, Festetics, and London Haydn Quartet have some excellent modern sets as well.
Glad to own this set. 🎉
It can be had at Presto for 41.75! If you don't have this yet, jump on it!
Yes, Presto lists the set...but only for download.
@@richardfrankel6102 The price is dirt cheap for what you get.
@@moviedave2001 No arguments there.
I’d love to have this set, but, woe is me, the prices for it on Discogs, eBay, and Amazon! Now this video comes out, with the effect of buoying the prices for a few more years. 😭😭😭
Dave, please, give a guy a chance: no more Haydn / Dorati reviews until the market cools down. 😉 (Just kidding!)
Keep up the great work! If it weren’t for your channel, I wouldn’t have known to look for the Dorati set in the first place.
I was a bit blown away when I checked Amazon for this....$479!
@@EddieJazzFanyikes, well thanks for commenting, it saves me a few minutes
I love the recording of Symphony 68 - one of my very favourites! Not a piece of music but I would highly recommend Dorati’s appearance on Desert Island Discs
Dang! And here I bought two sets of the Adam Fischer edition, one for my home in America, and the other for my home in Austria. Had I only known...! 😮💨
I own the Adam Fischer cycle & i'm happy i have it. Got it when i bought the Haydn edition on Brilliant Classics because i wanted to get the Baryton trios.
YES! I do not have that yet. I do have the smaller Bernstein box and some Goberman.
I bought the box set back in the 90s when it was first transferred to CDs and I've listened to all of them with great pleasure many times over.
I've also seen this complete set here on TH-cam, so they can be listed to with having to buy the CDs.
Yes, of course. That's the box to have 🙂
Had some of the LP sets but luck stuck in 2009 when I was living in Japan and I bought the entire box set for ¥1000 (which at that time was about $10) such a deal. Wonderful set.
So, motivated by this video I grabbed the box set and blindly grabbed a CD; #15 with symphonies 54-56 playing right now.
I have 2 personal favorites sets... this Anton Dorati set on Decca, along with Ádám Fischer on Nimbus
the excitement for nº 54 in the Crusade is too much!!!
I had the Dorati set on both LP and CD.I agree about consistency but I gaver them both up and bought the Adam Fischer.I agree with your comment about the London Symphonies which I bought when they first came out.Years later I bought the Brilliant Classics complete box which I am generally pleased with.The problem with the set that it took ten years to complete by which time by so called "authenticists ? had arrived and when Fischer completed his set he wanted to record some again.Eventually I think Naxos agreed and he did some in Denmark which I think got generally bad reviews in the UK
I agree with this choice, and it's not because I've heard no other cycles. I also have the Adam Fischer cycle as well as the Hogwood and Brüggen partial cycles (before they were bundled together to form a cycle with the gaps filled in by Dantone.).
The Fischer is actually better than Dorati in some of the early and middle symphonies but is much worse in the later ones (especially in the sonics, as Dave says). Over all, the Dorati has a better average performance level, and it has the advantage of being the first cycle easily available (outside of MHS). The Hogwood-Brüggen-Dantone cycle is mostly quite good in the Brüggen-conducted symphonies; however, Hogwood seems to have a pretty low energy level in the ones he conducts, and he leaves out (sometimes dubious) trumpet or drum parts in many of them.
I am also glad to learn that the Derek Solomons partial cycle has been reissued. I have two volumes of that set previously issued on CD, but I may splurge for the entire box if it gets good reviews and has a reasonable price. I like what I've heard of it. I wonder if Warner/Nonesuch or PYE will ever reissue the Leslie Jones/Little Orchestra of London partial cycle on CD; those were my first exploration of pre-#82 Haydn symphonies.
As for the early Maerzendorfer cycle on MHS, I have one LP (symphonies 50 & 51) of it that MHS pushed as a promotion back in the early 1970s. My recollection of it was that it was good but nothing special; at the time I had no other version against which to compare it. Once I had collected the Dorati cycle on LP, I had no motivation to collect Maerzendorfer since I didn't intentionally duplicate works on my student budget at the time.
I agree Fischer is better in soeme early and middle symphonies and to Paris and London we have others better than both. That´s why I dont listen to Dorati most of the time.
David has introduced me (us) to so much wonderful repertoire I feel almost guilty that I just don't get Haydn's symphonies. Sure I have enormous respect that he invented the genre but for me it's a case of that I should like them more than I do. What's more, I feel that Mozart's pre-Haffner symphonies deserve much more than invidious comparison with those of Haydn. That said, in regards to H's other immortal invention, the string quartets, his have rarely been equaled and never surpassed. Go figure.
it sounds like you've listened to a lot of Haydn before arriving to this conclusion, but if you decide to give another opportunity to his symphonies, I suggest you the number 44th "Trauer" (mourning).
It was my first Haydn symphony and made me forever fall in love with him.
I think Mildred might be more a Britten fan than a Haydn one. Try her out on some, would you? 😅
Tried to find it on amazon and e-bay just not available, that's a shame why is something so good become not available
I had to get these in these used in the separate volumes as the box was either unavailable or ridiculously priced
I could not agree more!
There can be no other.
While I have no doubt Dorati deserves to be the reference, unfortunately I can't justify (read: afford...) the money for a used one. Maybe it will be reissued at some point, until then I'll have to be content with Fischer and other miscellaneous recordings. There's certainly no doubt in my mind anymore that Haydn was a genius on par with anyone else in Western music, so I'll gladly take whatever I can get. I'm just grateful I've finally matured enough as a listener to truly appreciate his genius.
Yes, yes, yes!
Who else did complete Haydn sets? Around how many Haydn symphonies did Marriner do with rhe ASMF? Dave do you feel period instrument Ensembles dont stack up as well?
There is one vital piece of information missing: is there a harpsinoodle cording along, or is there not? I seem to remember there was, but I could be wrong (I have proved this any times).
I am, though, overall very happy with Fischer's set, which I bought on Nimbus as they came out (and even before the last instalment became available, it could be had in a big box for next to no money... Arghhh!) but the London symphonies really won't do at all. I replaced those with Jochum's set, which I love even though there are moments where he's a bit over-fleet, not helped by his reluctance to do repeats. Still - a magnificent London set.
There is a harpsichord used discretely up to the Sturm und Drang symphonies.
Next on the list would be the (mixed) Naxos Haydn symphony box - which I think is pretty tip-top.....
I expressed this in another of you videos that I think Haydn's late masses were a extension of his symphony output taken to its logical conclusion....the masses are SO symphonic in scope....precursors of the Beethoven 9th perhaps??????
Have the Adam Fischer 1 to 92 ,Colin Davis for the London symphonies. I agree, the sound from Nimbus is a little flat and dull but just a little middle to high eq does the trick. Can't seem to find a satisfying 88 to 92, to me the ones I've heard sound dry and flat.
Recently bought on EBay the complete set for $150 but without the booklet. Any suggestions where I might find one? Thanks
The booklet in the edition shown in the video just has basic information such as tempo indications and timings. There is a Wikipedia page with a list of Haydn symphonies where you can find some information on each piece, including the two unnumbered ones.
Thanks Gary. Will check that out. Just bought the Robbins book on the same subject.
Russell-Davies leads the Stuttgart Chamber Orchestra in his Hayden cycle.
Reference recording for Four Seasons
Dave,can you please bring back the Haydn Crusade and bring it to a completion. I know its not easy.
You can hear in this talk that #54 is on its way. And hurray to that!
I've been trying to find this set for years. Amazon & Ebay does have it for $400-$500. I wonder if anyone will actually pay that?
The Dennis Russell Davies set isn't helped by the lengthy applause at the conclusion of each symphony.
The set I have has no notes by Landon. A pity. I will have to buy the book by-er-oh yes -Hurwitz on Haydn! :)
Sadly, this box set does seem to be out of print.
It is on Spotify and probably other streaming services. It’s available for download from Presto Music, though sadly without a digital copy of the booklet. Not ideal, but at least one can hear the music.
kind of a newbie but i really like the farewell symphony on the dorati
Dipping in the Dorati over the last week (on Tidal) 😋 1 copy on Discogs atm €100+pp
$250 on ebay, unfortunately.
It’s out of print an absolute disaster
Maybe if you let the cats create their own content (e.g. board game reviews, Reddit post reaction videos), and maybe they'd be more willing to participate in yours.
Dorati is, I think, unavailable. Which raises an interesting question. What does it mean when a reference recording is unavailable for an extended period of time?
It means that Haydn's Legacy (classical music as a whole? even culture?) is in the hands of dealers who don't consider it profitable enough for their excel tables, kpi's and growth rates.
I have to admit, Dorati's versions were what turned me off Haydn. I was lucky enough to have access to several of the LP boxes. When I started your Haydn Symphony Crusade I listed to Ádám Fischer and Dorati, successively. I am not sure if the early Haydn symphonies are served well by Dorati. They put me to sleep. However, I find the Fischer more dynamic and engaging. I've now reached 44. I listened to both Dorati and Fischer. Now they're neck to neck. But still Fischer wins. I've heard that Fischer's interpretation of Haydn's late symphonies are the worst. So for now I'm ok!
That's fair. Fischer is at his best in some of the earlier symphonies.
@@DavesClassicalGuide That's why I love your reviews so much!
This video is about ten minutes longer than necessary, enit?