Sigh... I'd love to get that box. Reiner is one of my all-time favourite conductors. There's hardly a dud anywhere. Maybe it will be re-released at some stage.
Astonishing how top notch nearly all the performances in this box were/are. That Reiner era in Chicago was truly something special. And the RCA sonics! 💕
Over my 80 plus years I've been collecting and re-collecting more recordings than I can possibly count. Even so, if the Reiner and Munch big boxes are ever re-released again I can die a most happily satisfied man. Until then, I guess I have no choice but to be upright and breathing. :)
It is valuable to review these sets such as the Reiner box because, though the physical product can be difficult and expensive to acquire, the set is available to stream. So, thankfully, streaming services can be a valuable repository for such OOP recordings.
Several players in the CSO were "adjunct professors" at Northwestern when I was there. One of them told me that Rubinstein and Reiner had a nasty spat while recording the Rhapsody on a Theme of Paganini which resulted in Rubinstein walking out of the recording session. RCA persuaded him to finish the recording but he refused to record the scheduled Nights in the Gardens of Spain with Reiner. which is why there's a Rubinstein/Jorda Nights in the Gardens of Spain.
The Louis Fremaux 12 cd Icon box is surely worth a review - it provides ample evidence that the City of Birmingham Symphony Orchestra was already a splendid ensemble in it's pre-Rattle guise. Well worth considering this for a review, perhaps?
I would love to hear you go through the Rubinstein box. I had and sold the 1999 huge box and now have the smaller one with the same stuff in it. Much better package than the massive box although it had a nice book and separate notes for each cd.
From Fritz Reiner..to Klaus Makela..I used to read the Lebrecht blog, and there was a bunch of (alleged) Chicagoans that crapped on Muti ceaselessly..now you go&have fun!
Strangely enough, there are some pictures of him smiling broadly and even laughing. Of course that certainly wasn't his norm for publicity photos or album covers.
Hey! Thank you, David! I have it and since I have several big boxes it’s in the queue, but I haven’t listened to it yet. I always find it interesting to compare my thoughts and impressions with your very astute observations.
Andre Tchaikowsky passed away in 1982 from colon cancer . He ( generously ? ) bequeathed his skull to the Royal Shakespeare Academy intending it to be used as a prop in their production of 'Hamlet " . " Poor Yorick . I knew him well , and he played a mean piano ".
Great to hear this review! I was lucky enough to snatch this box when it was briefly available at a decent price. I'll have to go back and listen to some things I may have missed. It was just a few weeks ago that I listened to the Gilels Tchaikovsky Piano Concerto No. 1 for the first time and I was blown away by it. Stunning. I haven't yet listened to the second Zarathustra recording (most critics prefer the first) so I'll have to give it a spin and decide for myself.
In the age of internet shopping, most every (if not every) cd remains available, often at a reasonable price (though sometimes not… I’ve noticed especially after one of your videos come out and the cheaper copies get gobbled up). In that way it’s not like the old days when it was catch-as-catch-can at one’s local second hand record/cd/video shop, or searching through remainder catalogs. Even here in the New York City/Queens/Long Island region, with all of the used stores we used to have (not to forget the Tower Records Annex on 4th in Greenwich Village) it was often hard to find exactly what one was seeking out. But now virtually everything is available, even in physical media, and then there’s always iTunes, Presto Music for classical and jazz, Amazon downloads, etc in a pinch. So keep these vintage recording reviews coming as the info and critique remains as useful today as a Penguin Guide used to be
Dave, speaking of Fritz Reiner, you'll be proud of me after my latest eBay find. I got a good deal on the Fritz Reiner Conducts Richard Strauss box. I ended up being the only bidder on it. For some reason, no one else wanted to go for it. So, I put in a bid at the last minute and got it.
Reiner is a blast from the distant past - love his tidiness and concision. Thanks. I hope you can gear some of your talk toward classical music streaming services such as Apple Classical (which is a mess) and Idagio.
Dear Mr Hurwitz! I would like to ask you to consider to make a talk about the André Previn box on RCA, and the Pierre Boulez box on CBS. Best wishes Fred from Kristianstad.
The complete RCA recordings with The Chicago Symphony can be heard streaming on Presto Music and may even be purchased there as a download of the remastered Sony box.
I'm still kicking myself for not buying the Reiner set when it came out. My local record store had one copy on the shelf and it was discounted by almost half because a corner of the lid was dented!
I have the box and I think I made it all the way through, though I haven’t listened to it in a while. So many of those records are classics, it’s amazing. Antonio Janigro played Don Quixote because Angel/EMI wouldn’t lend Janos Starker, who had recently left; always wondered why they didn’t use Frank Miller. Ray Still in La Scala di Seta is legendary. And Heifetz in the Brahms and Tchaikovsky concerts is unbelievable.
The Don Quixote was originally released in 1960 as a fancy, cloth-covered box with a single LP and LP-sized booklet. The booklet has many full-page paintings regarding the Don.
Members of the Chicago Symphony nicknamed Reiner "Friendly Fritz." But some said if you were really a top notch player, he usually left you alone. Szell was known to be very similar. This was a time when many American orchestra managements brought in conductors like Reiner and Szell to shape their orchestras into first class organizations. They were specifically charged to weed out substandard or mediocre players. There's a film clip of Szell responding to criticisms of overly harsh treatment of players in which he clearly states he was charged to build up the Cleveland Orchestra, not to secure the salaries and tenure of every existing player. In more modern times, the governing board of the San Francisco Symphony brought in a series of conductors starting with Herbert Blomstedt in 1985 to accomplish the same thing. The difference was in how that was accomplished. A third of the orchestra was eventually pensioned off and not called on to play, and many new musicians were hired. Certainly more expensive, but a lot more humane. Another Reiner fact: Leonard Bernstein graduated from the Curtis Institute of Music with a diploma in conducting in 1941. Reiner was one of the faculty, and the grade he assigned to Bernstein was an "A."
This Reiner box and the Serkin box are the only two in this Sony reissue series that I've missed. But it sounds like if you already have the various soloist boxes (Gilels, Janis, Cliburn, Heifetz, Tchaikowsky) and the Richard Strauss box, then you have quite a lot of what's in this box.
I just listened to the Tchakiovsky Concerto with Reiner and Gilels from 1955 the other night; great performance but something goes wrong with the sound in the second movement; it collapses to mono and then develops a phasey sound for some time. I wonder if these discs are remastered? Oh, and the SACD re-master of the "Music for Strings, Percussion and Celesta" has fixed that nasty drop-out. Cheers!
Yes, other people have mentioned the brief change from stereo to mono over the years. I can only guess that the stereo tape had a damaged portion and they spliced in the mono recording for that portion.
@@DavesClassicalGuide I stand--or rather sit--corrected. I compared the SACD transfer and old 90's transfer on the CD layer and it's in both. The CD layer sounds a bit more...recessed? and it sure sticks out in that one. Sycthian Suite with Dorati/LSO on Mercury and Corroboree on Everest with Goossens later this morning--when the neighbors are gone!
Ten years ago they issued two RCA Living Stereo cubes....60 discs per cube. 14 Reiners in Vol. 1 and 8 Reiners in Vol. 2. They also contain tons of Munch/BSO. They are out of print (of course) but you can still find a few copies floating around the used market.
@@DavesClassicalGuide I very recently bought the first box on Amazon in Germany, and they still have it in stock. The second box is another issue, however.
This set, like many others you discuss, is available to subscribers on Amazon Prime. No documentation to speak of. You may have to guess the composers name on symphony no. X.
Since I'm on a Mozart divertimento kick, I couldn't resist checking out Reiner's No. 17, and it's exactly as one would predict -- competent, but overpowered, no repeats, no frills.
Reiner intended to record Carmina Burana and Grofé's Grand Canyon Suite in 1958 when Margaret Hillis' choir had already established in the city. RCA agreed but orchestra manager George Kuyper vetoed. He said these are light music for a decent and classy orchestra as the Chicago Symphony were. Reiner was furious about that but he had nothing to do. Ironically, the orchestra and its chorus recorded Carmina Burana with James Levine in 1984 - three years before Kuyper's death.
About that Tchaikowsky Mozart Concerto, a musician recalled that during the middle of the recording session Tchaikowsky said, "You know, Dr. Reiner, I've never played this concerto before.'"... Reiner said, "WHAT? You've never played this, and you DARE to come here and record this with me and my orchestra"'. After that he only "went through the motions" of conducting the Bach recording, and the result was rejected by Tchaikowsky who did not play with Reiner thereafter
Beecham did that horn boop hilariously in his Gazza Ladra, though unfortunately from a very corrupt score that includes a spurious triangle. My one disappointment with the Reiner Rossini disc is that it didn't include Semiramide, which he and the CSO would have nailed.
Thanks Dave. Reiner who being 21 years younger than Toscanini was another example of a conductor who could do everything and did it well. Like Toscanini some excellent biographies on him and I agree better to listen to than work for , yikes !
How many of a box like this do they actually sell? 1000? Seems like something they might be able to set up a system where they could make a batch on demand if enough people prepaid?Maybe i don't understand the business.
IF and WHEN Sony/RCA reissues the big Reiner box, they need to add the pre-Chicago RCA Reiner recordings that he made while in NYC with the Metropolitan Opera. Included in that bunch would be the only complete commercial recording Reiner made (Bizet's Carmen), an abridged recording of Johann Strauss' Die Fledermaus, and the Bach Suites for Orchestra. Otherwise, those recordings need to be reissued on their own.
![Method Writing: The First Four Concepts - Jack Grapes [FULL INTERVIEW]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/ba9jAVzADY0/mqdefault.jpg)
Sigh... I'd love to get that box. Reiner is one of my all-time favourite conductors. There's hardly a dud anywhere. Maybe it will be re-released at some stage.
Since we're nominating... I‘d love to see you do the Jochum DG boxes. You've already done HvK and Bohm I think. It would be such a treat!
Astonishing how top notch nearly all the performances in this box were/are. That Reiner era in Chicago was truly something special. And the RCA sonics! 💕
Over my 80 plus years I've been collecting and re-collecting more recordings than I can possibly count. Even so, if the Reiner and Munch big boxes are ever re-released again I can die a most happily satisfied man. Until then, I guess I have no choice but to be upright and breathing. :)
It is valuable to review these sets such as the Reiner box because, though the physical product can be difficult and expensive to acquire, the set is available to stream. So, thankfully, streaming services can be a valuable repository for such OOP recordings.
You are so right about the Respighi Pines and Fountains... It is the only one.
That Liebermann Concerto for Jazz Band and Orchestra is a sonic blockbuster!
Would love a video on the VICTORIA DE LOS ANGELES Warner box! Am dying to get it! Best regards!
I was lucky to get the REINER box and the MUNCH box when they were first issued!!!
Jealous!
That Reiner Ninth truly is one of the great performances. That Scherzo. And the soloists don't dawdle in the last movement.
Goodness me, I love that 9th as well.
Those weird changes in tempo in the first movement ruin it for me.
Several players in the CSO were "adjunct professors" at Northwestern when I was there. One of them told me that Rubinstein and Reiner had a nasty spat while recording the Rhapsody on a Theme of Paganini which resulted in Rubinstein walking out of the recording session. RCA persuaded him to finish the recording but he refused to record the scheduled Nights in the Gardens of Spain with Reiner. which is why there's a Rubinstein/Jorda Nights in the Gardens of Spain.
The Louis Fremaux 12 cd Icon box is surely worth a review - it provides ample evidence that the City of Birmingham Symphony Orchestra was already a splendid ensemble in it's pre-Rattle guise. Well worth considering this for a review, perhaps?
I'm glad I bought it when available.
I would love to hear you go through the Rubinstein box. I had and sold the 1999 huge box and now have the smaller one with the same stuff in it. Much better package than the massive box although it had a nice book and separate notes for each cd.
I have both. Some day...
From Fritz Reiner..to Klaus Makela..I used to read the Lebrecht blog, and there was a bunch of (alleged) Chicagoans that crapped on Muti ceaselessly..now you go&have fun!
It's worth having just to see Fritz Reiner smiling on one of the CD covers. (at least I think that's a smile).
Strangely enough, there are some pictures of him smiling broadly and even laughing. Of course that certainly wasn't his norm for publicity photos or album covers.
He managed something akin to a leer in a photo with Ljuba Welitsch when they were doing Salome at the Met.
@@bbailey7818 must have been with great effort.
Hey! Thank you, David! I have it and since I have several big boxes it’s in the queue, but I haven’t listened to it yet. I always find it interesting to compare my thoughts and impressions with your very astute observations.
Andre Tchaikowsky passed away in 1982 from colon cancer . He ( generously ? ) bequeathed his skull to the Royal Shakespeare Academy intending it to be used as a prop in their production of 'Hamlet " . " Poor Yorick . I knew him well , and he played a mean piano ".
I knew a couple of you folks would let me know. Thanks.
Misquote
"Poor Yorick. I knew him, Horatio.
@@normanmeharry58 But , the piano add-on was accurate ? Pleeeeease.....
Tchaikovsky was also a composer. He survived being in the Warsaw Ghetto as a young child. Maybe his music is interesting?
@@stefanehrenkreutz1839it’s very interesting: there’s a magnificent piano concerto, premiered in 1975 by none other than Radu Lupu.
Please review the Boston Symphony box. Probably the best box I've ever seen, or close to it.
P. S. Reiner was always a favourite conductor of mine! His Stravinsky Song of the Nightingale is simply amazing!!!
Dear Mr. Hurwitz. could you do a review of the William Kappell RCA box?
I could and I'll think about it. It probably won't be soon, though. Thanks for the suggestion!
Great to hear this review! I was lucky enough to snatch this box when it was briefly available at a decent price. I'll have to go back and listen to some things I may have missed. It was just a few weeks ago that I listened to the Gilels Tchaikovsky Piano Concerto No. 1 for the first time and I was blown away by it. Stunning. I haven't yet listened to the second Zarathustra recording (most critics prefer the first) so I'll have to give it a spin and decide for myself.
Darn - for a minute there I thought it might have popped up again.😎
In the age of internet shopping, most every (if not every) cd remains available, often at a reasonable price (though sometimes not… I’ve noticed especially after one of your videos come out and the cheaper copies get gobbled up). In that way it’s not like the old days when it was catch-as-catch-can at one’s local second hand record/cd/video shop, or searching through remainder catalogs. Even here in the New York City/Queens/Long Island region, with all of the used stores we used to have (not to forget the Tower Records Annex on 4th in Greenwich Village) it was often hard to find exactly what one was seeking out. But now virtually everything is available, even in physical media, and then there’s always iTunes, Presto Music for classical and jazz, Amazon downloads, etc in a pinch.
So keep these vintage recording reviews coming as the info and critique remains as useful today as a Penguin Guide used to be
Dave, speaking of Fritz Reiner, you'll be proud of me after my latest eBay find. I got a good deal on the Fritz Reiner Conducts Richard Strauss box. I ended up being the only bidder on it. For some reason, no one else wanted to go for it. So, I put in a bid at the last minute and got it.
Good for you! Enjoy!
There is a “Complete Columbia Collection” available for
Reiner is a blast from the distant past - love his tidiness and concision. Thanks. I hope you can gear some of your talk toward classical music streaming services such as Apple Classical (which is a mess) and Idagio.
Already done. Never again!
I remember it well, Dave. Hope all is well with you. Keep up the good work!
Dear Mr Hurwitz!
I would like to ask you to consider to make a talk about the André Previn box on RCA, and the Pierre Boulez box on CBS.
Best wishes Fred from Kristianstad.
I can't speak for the Boulez set, but I believe Dave has covered the large Previn box. You might want to search for it, you'll be well rewarded.
He has - it’s a good one!
The complete RCA recordings with The Chicago Symphony can be heard streaming on Presto Music and may even be purchased there as a download of the remastered Sony box.
I was about to mention that, but you beat me to it. Worth every penny!
I'm still kicking myself for not buying the Reiner set when it came out. My local record store had one copy on the shelf and it was discounted by almost half because a corner of the lid was dented!
I have the box and I think I made it all the way through, though I haven’t listened to it in a while. So many of those records are classics, it’s amazing. Antonio Janigro played Don Quixote because Angel/EMI wouldn’t lend Janos Starker, who had recently left; always wondered why they didn’t use Frank Miller. Ray Still in La Scala di Seta is legendary. And Heifetz in the Brahms and Tchaikovsky concerts is unbelievable.
The Don Quixote was originally released in 1960 as a fancy, cloth-covered box with a single LP and LP-sized booklet. The booklet has many full-page paintings regarding the Don.
Members of the Chicago Symphony nicknamed Reiner "Friendly Fritz." But some said if you were really a top notch player, he usually left you alone. Szell was known to be very similar. This was a time when many American orchestra managements brought in conductors like Reiner and Szell to shape their orchestras into first class organizations. They were specifically charged to weed out substandard or mediocre players. There's a film clip of Szell responding to criticisms of overly harsh treatment of players in which he clearly states he was charged to build up the Cleveland Orchestra, not to secure the salaries and tenure of every existing player.
In more modern times, the governing board of the San Francisco Symphony brought in a series of conductors starting with Herbert Blomstedt in 1985 to accomplish the same thing. The difference was in how that was accomplished. A third of the orchestra was eventually pensioned off and not called on to play, and many new musicians were hired. Certainly more expensive, but a lot more humane.
Another Reiner fact: Leonard Bernstein graduated from the Curtis Institute of Music with a diploma in conducting in 1941. Reiner was one of the faculty, and the grade he assigned to Bernstein was an "A."
This Reiner box and the Serkin box are the only two in this Sony reissue series that I've missed. But it sounds like if you already have the various soloist boxes (Gilels, Janis, Cliburn, Heifetz, Tchaikowsky) and the Richard Strauss box, then you have quite a lot of what's in this box.
I just listened to the Tchakiovsky Concerto with Reiner and Gilels from 1955 the other night; great performance but something goes wrong with the sound in the second movement; it collapses to mono and then develops a phasey sound for some time. I wonder if these discs are remastered? Oh, and the SACD re-master of the "Music for Strings, Percussion and Celesta" has fixed that nasty drop-out. Cheers!
No, it didn't.
Yes, other people have mentioned the brief change from stereo to mono over the years. I can only guess that the stereo tape had a damaged portion and they spliced in the mono recording for that portion.
@@DavesClassicalGuide I stand--or rather sit--corrected. I compared the SACD transfer and old 90's transfer on the CD layer and it's in both. The CD layer sounds a bit more...recessed? and it sure sticks out in that one. Sycthian Suite with Dorati/LSO on Mercury and Corroboree on Everest with Goossens later this morning--when the neighbors are gone!
@@brianwilliams9408 it's pretty jarring and upsets what's otherwise a fine listening experience. It's too bad that damage is there.
Ten years ago they issued two RCA Living Stereo cubes....60 discs per cube. 14 Reiners in Vol. 1 and 8 Reiners in Vol. 2. They also contain tons of Munch/BSO. They are out of print (of course) but you can still find a few copies floating around the used market.
I have them and will cover them at some point, just for fun.
They are fun. A real hodgepodge of treasures. Can't wait for your take on them.
@@DavesClassicalGuide I very recently bought the first box on Amazon in Germany, and they still have it in stock. The second box is another issue, however.
This set, like many others you discuss, is available to subscribers on Amazon Prime. No documentation to speak of. You may have to guess the composers name on symphony no. X.
The bench mark of orchestral playing 👍
Since I'm on a Mozart divertimento kick, I couldn't resist checking out Reiner's No. 17, and it's exactly as one would predict -- competent, but overpowered, no repeats, no frills.
Reiner intended to record Carmina Burana and Grofé's Grand Canyon Suite in 1958 when Margaret Hillis' choir had already established in the city. RCA agreed but orchestra manager George Kuyper vetoed. He said these are light music for a decent and classy orchestra as the Chicago Symphony were. Reiner was furious about that but he had nothing to do. Ironically, the orchestra and its chorus recorded Carmina Burana with James Levine in 1984 - three years before Kuyper's death.
Thank you. I love little asides such as this.
About that Tchaikowsky Mozart Concerto, a musician recalled that during the middle of the recording session Tchaikowsky said, "You know, Dr. Reiner, I've never played this concerto before.'"... Reiner said, "WHAT? You've never played this, and you DARE to come here and record this with me and my orchestra"'. After that he only "went through the motions" of conducting the Bach recording, and the result was rejected by Tchaikowsky who did not play with Reiner thereafter
There's nothing to conduct in the Bach. That sounds apocryphal to me.
The box is available on Apple Music and perhaps other streaming services. Yay!
Beecham did that horn boop hilariously in his Gazza Ladra, though unfortunately from a very corrupt score that includes a spurious triangle.
My one disappointment with the Reiner Rossini disc is that it didn't include Semiramide, which he and the CSO would have nailed.
DId you notice RCA Horowitz is out too? I just bought it
Hi Dave, do you ever feel boxed-in? I know I do, sometimes...
No, not a bit.
R.I.P. Byron Janis, I hadn’t read he had died a month ago. I certainly imprinted on a number of warhorses under his hands.
Thanks Dave. Reiner who being 21 years younger than Toscanini was another example of a conductor who could do everything and did it well. Like Toscanini some excellent biographies on him and I agree better to listen to than work for , yikes !
Have you done the RCA Munch box or did I miss it?
Coming soon.
How many of a box like this do they actually sell? 1000? Seems like something they might be able to set up a system where they could make a batch on demand if enough people prepaid?Maybe i don't understand the business.
IF and WHEN Sony/RCA reissues the big Reiner box, they need to add the pre-Chicago RCA Reiner recordings that he made while in NYC with the Metropolitan Opera. Included in that bunch would be the only complete commercial recording Reiner made (Bizet's Carmen), an abridged recording of Johann Strauss' Die Fledermaus, and the Bach Suites for Orchestra. Otherwise, those recordings need to be reissued on their own.
And a classic Mozart Musical Joke, probably the best big orchestra version ever made.
@@bbailey7818 I have the box, and if I remember correctly, that recording is already in the box.
This box is available as a digital download from Presto at an unbelievably cheap price - even when it is not on sale, as it is at the moment.
$200?
@@CortJohnson $63.50 Australian dollars and is on sale at the moment.
$63.50 (Australian)
Mildred has ordered the Christoph Von Dohnányyi box for her next birthday
Yes, but, in the words of Ross Perot, "Who's gonna pay for it?!"