"This Is Why WoW PvP Is So Bad" - Bajheera Reacts (ft. Asmongold, Xaryu, Venruki)
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 20 ส.ค. 2024
- Original Video - • "This Is Why WoW PvP I...
Fun discussion about WoW PvP Asmongold, Xaryu, Venruki but it definitely featured some pretty controversial takes xD
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#WorldofWarcraft #WoW #Bajheera
Editor: Quaylin ( / @quaylin )
![[UNCUT] ชาวบ้านถาม “นายกอุ๊งอิ๊งค์” ประชาชนมีกิน มีใช้ กี่โมง? I คนดังนั่งเคลียร์ I 16 ส.ค. 67](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/tKZvOzLIJJc/mqdefault.jpg)
If there was no pvp in wow, I wouldn't play wow.
The most exciting part of wow is pvp
0.001 less player lol
@@Ninja40K palyer dool
Same
It was until they removed tanks from pvp by making them squishy while doing no damage
Asmons whole point was about the New player experience when it comes to PvP, and hes entirely correct. Old head PvPers cant relate because of years of knowledge and practice. Retail WoW pvp is very unapproachable for New players, you have to know your 25 or so abilities, as well as the 25 or so abilities for every other class in the game. The game simply doesn't explain how anything works in the PvP context like CC,DR's,CD timing and appropriate usage which often require outside addons to track and manage. This steep learning curve would be something many people would overcome if it weren't for the generally toxic WoW community itself towards new players that discourage people from pushing through the Noob phase.
I agree, pvp as a whole (and not only the top mid-high rated Arenas) is totaly unbalanced to a point where game feels broken and uncared by devs. PvP on alts used to be alot of fun and is now near impossible to enjoy or even participate at this point because twinks are everywhere and you cant twink your alts if you are not rich wich not alot of people are beside people that never stopped playing. Twinks were always a thing but there were still kind of rare, now almost 1/2 of players in the 50s and 60s braket can have 2x and sometime 3x the amount of HP as normal players and MM hunters will always almost 1 or 2 shots you. That being said, pvp at max level when fully geared is great and balanced, but pvp as a whole in this game needs to be redesigned for sure. So in conclusion both Asmon and Bajheera are right in that regard.
Pretty much this, I've played WoW for a very long time and I tried league with my brother for the first time like a year ago and I've never played a moba before in my life and the skill gap in that game is huge BUT on terms of the amount of things I needed to learn right off the bat it was much less than you are asking a new player getting into WoW PvP, the barrier to entry is just so high with WoW.
new players not having knowledge to play the game... i skipped BFA and Slands.. jump into DF and guess what, it took me maybe 3-4 days of learning each class.. literaly any effort to get better is required to...get better
Yes, you learn by playing. Just like any other game, you're new at.
Exactly this. Also have to say, as a Vet player with way too much game-time, exhausted of other retailers saying you have to just try it out, and you can't judge the game if you're not playing retail (or even part of the top 0.1%)
should I react to your video creating a loop?
Keep it going dude xD
Be sure to wear a black shirt too lmao
@@Juggernautdeath2 lmao fr
its going to end up like some brady bunch scene
if you dont wear a black shirt id be upset
I think a another issue is a lot of times your team either doesn’t have geared people or fighting a full stack and to the point where your team will tell you to just let them win
@@izurukamukura221 it's simple increase daily bg conquest win to 250. Why does their need to be four tiers of pvp gear. World pvp gear, conquest gear, conquest and crafted gear.
All this makes it seems is like more work for new players they just quit if they enter a season to late or wait for the next expansion.
Some just afk and hide in bgs if their under geared. Why fight people with 35 percent more DMG and life these folks are gonna afk in bags till their geared and still be 15 percent DMG and life behind.
Everything is "Skill Issue"..
To Bajs point where he says he loved gearing up and stomping noobs that don't have the gear or play as much, I think that's the counterpoint Asmon always makes. That that's not fun for the casual player that's getting stomped so then they don't want to play PVP anymore.
when i got stomped it sucked, but it also motivated me to get good so that eventually i could do the stomping, i guess people dont feel that way anymore lol 👀
Agreed, wow players think because they don't have real jobs and have all this free time they deserve to stomp on players and that is BS. No if you want to call something comp then none of this crap should matter. Having to get a certain amount of gear to compete is not a skilled base game for those that don't have time
I used to gree with that back in the days a full honor set would takes weeks to get. As a casual players itcould be over a month. Now, I've started to play Dragonflight 1 month into season 4 and I got a full honor set in about a week of doing daily and spent 400g to buy jewelry int he AH. Also without resiliance it isn't as bad as it used to be.
streamers/pro players who get paid to play games have ruined all competitive gaming. not everyone is a highschooler with plenty of free time or someone who gets paid to play games. the get good or skill issue arguments get exhausting to hear
@@notevenclose26 Exactly! Getting smacked by an alpha chad warrior is what got me into warrior in the first place. It's inspiring seeing a geared freak cut through half your team. People need to keep a positive learning mindset instead of crying about losing.
Agree completely with both you and Ven. I personally like the playstyle of Cata/MoP more than retail, but they are still fun and competitive in their own way
I love WoW PvP. I have 60,000 plus games of arena played. But these guys are on MAJOR fucking cope. WoW PvP is terrible for anyone but the guys who have been playing for years. You Cantrell what the fuck is going on even when you have played for years.
The game has gotten worse over the years bad balancing same op specs/classes, that can 1 vs 2 other specs.
Well their make money by streaming wow pvp ofc they are biased
@@mehmetozturk771 They play the same op specs for years on end, and say see look pvp is balanced. People who have never done wow pvp are not blind, they see some specs are op/strong others are trash in comparison.
@@grandcanyon2 tell me one single spec that is trash and can't climb in Dragonflight.
All you morons see is that you can't play your main spec as well as you did in the past because you lack the skill to do it, probably because every class has it all in comparison to when you guys were "good" at the game. But balance wise, DF is great, even better than God tier expansions such as Wotlk that a mage vs hunter/mage vs paladin was incredibly one-sided.
Your opinion counts when you say pvp is worst than it was before and I get it, but you can't talk about balancing.
Yeah its dudes who make a career off of WoW PVP stating WoW PVP is fine....
The type of complexity theyve added isnt fun complexity its just bloat. Some of the most popular competitive games on the market are easy to learn hard to master. WoW PVP is far too hard to learn and therefore why would anybody dedicate time to something they arent sure they even enjoy if right off the bat it's a cluster ****
I actually like modern wow pvp more than older wow pvp, but maybe that’s because I’m much better at it now than I used to be. Gearing for pvp has always been a problem though and of course the fact that the game is catered towards pve players.
i cant find the problem with gearing. i really want to know, is it that bad to lose ure first games because u have no gear? you dont go freshly geared in m+ and expect to top the dmg meters no? i dont want to provoke or anything im just really curious in why its so bad in this regard for a lot of ppl
there is a reason this is the only game on the planet that has the same pro's from the start with almost no new pro's, because it sucks and people are done
It seems like Asmond is trolling most of the time. He seems to hate a game he doesn't play that made him rich. Sounds like some personal issues honestly.
He usually is trolling because that's the character he plays, he doesn't hate the game, maybe just the current iteration of the game, and WoW didn't make him rich, he made him rich.
@@michaelm6179he’s not playing a character, it’s crazy to think a person is always playing a character
Asmon is like the Skip Bayless of WoW Arena. Never pushed rating and never competed at Blizzcon yet throws an opinion around like it has any weight to it.
Average person: wow pvp is not approachable
Tryhards: you're just bad, git gud
Agerage person: I'm good, got better things to do with my time
Tryhards: why am I waiting on queues for hours? Why is world pvp dead? \*cries alone in the basement\*
Blizzard: wow, only a very specific niche cares about pvp, I guess I shouldn’t invest more resources into making better, might as well make a new mount for degenerate spenders to buy
I don't think Asmon was saying the people who watch or you play with don't care about you, but the overall community is 85-90% PvErs who dont care what happens to the state of PvP, and I also dont think he's wrong in saying that if you want to become a professional esports player that you might want to look elsewhere. The prize pools for winning the Blizzard Superbowl "Blizzcon" was barely enough compared to other games with 200k-3m dollar payouts. We arent talking outside source sponsors. PvP in WoW is amazing and I love playing it, but he's right that they've stopped caring and it shows with no pvp dev team and someone just doing adjustments in their free time
there's a difference between being factually correct and using that to make a bad point.
it is very clearly stupid to say that because one game has bigger prize pools than another that you can, first of all, actually successfully transfer your skill from one game to another (extremely hard if it's a different genre), and secondly, that you like playing said game since you're absolutely not going to be great at it if you don't at least enjoy the process.
it's easy to see that asmon has developed such a hate boner for WoW that he will spout the first extreme things that come to his mind despite being obviously stupid.
Not sure why they try to make a case that Cata/ Classic pvp is better when all they do is raidlog
PVP in cata is better, and probably MoP as well. Game is simple and fun. While in Retail you push button like an arcade game and you don't really feel like do much
@@remi2702when you know how to play a class you don’t push random buttons lol
when does raidlogging have to do with pvp???
@@remi2702 you clearly don’t know your class and dont even play the game. If you knew what and when to press you shouldn’t type that comment. Most of the classes have literally 7-8 buttons to press
@@remi2702 difference is you can't PVP in cata whether it's better or not, LFG is often full of "2.8k xp only" or "mglad" nonsense + I cba to scroll through LFG for hours every day just to play 1 game and people have to leave
All I'm gonna say is this, there's a barrier to entry due to toxicity that is very personal (by individual). That's the major issue with everyone I know that refuses to PvP, because if anyone wants to LEARN, they can or will learn. There is an abundance of information from top level players to help with learning, however there are A LOT of people that mainly play PvP do not have the patience for people learning. When they get stuck with someone like that in a solo Q or a BG, or you get the person that really wants to PvP but they get stuck in pre-made casual games, can't stay alive for 3 seconds in skirmish, etc. A lot of PvP has become a script, and learning it, reacting to it, and management it with different classes takes time and dedication. People don't want to be abused through the entire process of learning something that can be too difficult to acquire the skills for being successful.
I do have an issue with your basketball example. Yes, correct you can have fun and play basketball and be new at it, you can go play in leagues or play pick up. The difference your didn't think about was that I can pick my opponents in basketball. Its not random. So i can find other new people to play against and it makes it more "fair" for all of us because we are roughly the same level. The problem with WoW pvp, is the "new" people get matched up with the people that have hard farmed. Its the equivalent to playing basketball against a D1 or pro player that has mastered their craft. Its not fun to get stomped on constantly. This is what happens in WoW. Randomness of ques, high ranked plays dropping rating or making new characters, its a way of cheating the system, just to beat people that you know are worse than you. And sure its fun for the better player, but man it sure sucks for the new player. If they want to fix WoW pvp, it needs to stop being a per character rating, and it needs to be an account rating. And all ques should be loosely based on it including random non ranked ques. If the better player wants to make a new character they can prove their skill against the same people no matter what character they have on their account, even if its new, and earn their way to the top and earn the gear along the way. And it helps the casual or new player, stay in the pool of players that better fits them. Only soft reset should come at the start of a new season.
I've been palying wow since bfa, with some come and back to the game, I'm a pve guy, but I played some pvp in the past just casual, and now, what makes me not play pvp, I think is anxiety, it looks so overwhelming to begin to play as a new pvp player, I love to see guys like you, pika, playing pvp, it looks another game, pvp looks so much dynamic than pve, you need to know a bit of every spec, at least their offensive and defensive cds to track it and make the right decisions....but I think that in tww I'll give a shot, at least for fun, some bgs...🤘 stay strong 💪
I think for most players in wow pve stuff is easy to understand how to play with it compared to wow pvp where there is a different complexity than pve
11:23 It's a skill issue in Starcraft that people don't know how to macro 5 bases and split marines against banelings, but Starcraft isn't exactly a super popular game. Idk do you want PvP to be this niche thing that only turbo sweats enjoy?
Ok, a different perspective than the PVP folks. I used to PVP all the time. I got to 2600+ in 3's in TBC, got to 2200+ in 2's. I am not a gladiator player, but I did better than some of the more casual folks. I do not PVP anymore and for me PERSONALLY, I do not play because it got too fast and there are too many abilities. My class already has 17 keybinds not including PVP talents. I do not want to play a game mode where I have to have 20 keybinds and also know everyone else's 20 keybinds. I got older and it turned into more of a zoomer thing. That said, it just isn't for me anymore so I don't play it. I dont whine about it. PVP'ers love it so they will defend it to the bitter end but if they love it or not, participation is down and there IS a reason for it even if PVP'rs don't want it to change.
Part two... the PVP players can be INREDIBLY toxic. I have decided to maybe try and get back into PVP again within the last few expansions and I have a lot to relearn. The first battleground you get into you are expected to know exactly what to do and if you don't already know it you get told to kill yourself. PVP'rs can be as toxic as CoD lobbies. PVE folks have those as well but in my personal experience, it seems way more common in battlegrounds.
Asmongold's opinion is irrelevant because he quits anything he isn't good at and then complains about it and spews his opinions on why it is bad. It is why he doesn't raid and why he doesn't pvp. He is bad at both of those things at this stage in wow. He defended wow to the end when he was actually good at it. Now he isn't so he dumps on it.
Asmon could also just be disappointed in the game and it's current state and is giving criticism on it. Your last little rant against Asmon made no sense lol. He's bad at most games and beats them entirely through stubborness.
@@michaelm6179 OK, so why would anyone put much weight into the opinion of someone that you say is bad at most games. Thats like the guy that said Elden Ring was too hard so everyone should hate it. That's his opinion of Elden Ring but who cares?
WoW PvP will become better when frontline streamers like you would start understanding the very basic things, like wasted vicious saddles, if SoloQ Arena gives Legend and 3v3 gives Gladiator then how come SoloQ Blitz and RBGs have same title and rating achievements, why can't RBG players get to use their season titles, why can't BG wins give players gold when normal dungeon and raid runs give gold and gear as such... Please address these basic things before anything else 🙏🏼🙏🏼
When people say there are too many buttons, the issue is you gotta learn all classes buttons and not just yours, learning your class buttons is fine, learn all the games button is too much.
Although the point is not incorrect in it's nature it's a bit exaggerated. You don't really need to know all the buttons for all the classes. Would it help? Maybe in the sense you would be able to better predict the player behavior and positioning because you would know how the enemy feels and likes to play but that's a fairly advanced concept. I've played PvP for at least 12 years at this point and I am pretty confident I know all the spells for every class for most patches I played but how often do I think about all the enmy buttons ? Never, there just isn't enough brain capacity. You have to dumb down the enemy class into a set of concepts which you have to know (what type of cc is in their disposal, can they take me out of stealth, do they have immu, are they bursty, mobile, dot based) which is why it's somewhat correct but I'd say if you know about the 5 most important spells from each PvP viable spec you're probably good to go and you'll learn the rest along as you play but you don't memorize them, you just get a feel for it. Doesnt mean you have to first learn everything and then play.
And honestly it's the same and sometimes even worse in other competitive games. I recently started SF6. If you don't know every special move every character has good luck. In League or Dota if you don't know all the 200 characters spells and playstyles good luck. If you don't know all the competitive maps in csgo and all the weapon prices and smoke placings gooood luck.
@@Qwuarter As somebody with 7k hours in CSGO/CS2 and have hit face it lvl 8 (which isnt absurd but is prob like low glad in arena wow comparison) comparing weapon prices and smoke lineups to knowing all the cooldowns offensively defensively and crowd control in WoW pvp is just not fair.
CS is a very very very easy game to learn, at its core theres no abilities, it has basic utility, and you can climb very very high in rankings without knowing a single lineup and winging your utility but just being a good shot (which does take time). But those first 100 games processing what is going on is simplistic. Think about watching Soccer without ever having played it, the concept is easy but being a pro is hard. WoW is so much to swallow just to even understand why you died or got ccd or your cc broke or what they did to live or kill you. Sure you can probably get like 1600-1800 playing a mongo comp and being good at your rotation which in and of itself is a lot to learn. But the barrier to entry is far far higher.
And that's why you're a 1400 Andy @@Qwuarter
You never played cs you dont need to know prices on guns🤣🤣 smokes also dont take as long to earn as a fully geared pvp char@@Qwuarter
@@QwuarterThe point is WoW can consume your life if you want to keep up
Asmon speaks on his pvp achievs like he wasn't HARD carried by r1s that q arena for a job.
10:11 You think Asmongold, the guy that played wow for 20 years, doesn't know how to play his main character? Cmon bro wtf....
Hard pill to swallow is that the long time niche audience that enjoy pvp factually do not want the same things that a wider gaming community want. If the conversation is how do we make people want to play pvp or how good is it from a public eye these veterans are probably thee worst and most out of touch opinions. We get that you like what most do not, but that isn’t even really the conversation.
You're LoL point also only makes sense if every player starts at the beginning of a season and plays till they're fully geared. A lot of people come in the middle of the season with last seasons gear and either have to grind bgs or get smacked in arena. Imagine starting a League game where everyone is level 6 and you're level 1. That's what it's like. Sure you can be sneaky and hopefully level up fast enough without getting ganked, but it's unlikely. I don't agree that mmo pvp is an oxymoron cause we'd obviously lose players if mmos got rid of pvp not gain them, but we have to find some middle ground.
1. add-ons in PVP need to go.
the fact that they allow you know what every person on the other team is doing or about to do is cheating.
get rid of them and let's see how people play.
2. too many ccs, that really don't have DR. YOU CAN BE STUN LOCKED, FEAR LOCKED, ROOT LOCKED,
2A. yes the durations may be greatly reduced, but you still get like . 1 sec of the cc, which interrupts you anyhow
3. dps classes, especially mages, have too many heals, walls, and mobility.
some don't even need a healer to succeed.
arena tournaments (used to be?) played without addons, the top players were still the top players. The addon stuff is bad player copium
@@lunaticmode638 nope
most of the pvpers can't play without them.
getting rid of add-ons levels the playing field.
stop saying only bad players hate add-ons. not true.
I'm not the greatest, but I get 2200 with zero add-ons, and id be higher if I used them, but I refuse to.
I play with no add-ons in pve and PVP.
I know what they do, and it's 100% cheat code
@@cc66bb44 Cope
I remember when Asmongolds take back in classic on why retail was bad was because you no longer could bring overpowered pve gear into pvp and one-shot people and how that was what was most fun about pvp.
He makes the point that the game now NO LONGER is like that for the people that enjoyed gearing an OP character and stomp others like classic AND is not made for the people that would like a fair and balanced Pvp, thats the part when he said “where are those pvp players are they here ik the room?” So yes right now pvp numbers reflect that
@@joreldecker1949 Why do you make up arguments he never made to try to make him sound less delusional? He never once made a connection to his old statement. Even if he did they are completely against each other on principal and retail is no different now in this aspect than it was back in 2018 when he said the opposite.
His point doesn't even make sense if you start seeing that some of the most popular pvp games has progression. Almost all shooter games has a long term prog system. Even sports games has progression.
League that he mentions has it too.
They are all unfair towards newer players in both power and in choices.
I mean league is literally a competetive game that is based around the concept of progression, that is its whole point.
@@MrCarlWax But there is not much progression after the game... You progress in that match then start all over after 20 minutes. Wow has progression past that arena match and it is long term investment. Also the point was that wowPVP is not catered towards either super competitive players or veterans that want to feel like they can stomp everyone nor towards new players that want to feel like they have a chance despite not having a few weeks of /played. The number of players in PVP on any bracket is atrocious (Venruki was queued throughout this whole video of 20-30 minutes and he had no match/BG during that). So in essence the PVP in wow is neither fun nor balanced. Also as a side note if you watch some "competitive" arena matches you notice that it takes at least 5 minutes for a 2v2 to end which is absurd., all those minutes if you are not familiar with the setup the streamer has and you are not that familiar with all the classes and what they each do you won't even understand what is happening on stream.
Regarding gear, it's basically useless to have progression at this point when you only have honor and conquest
Most of Asmon's other takes are advocating for scrub mentality, though, and I understand them but disagree because I enjoy competitive games
Baj is a blizzard baby
You guys are all Asmon babies, just accepting his words like he's always right.
@@glndopangamer can’t deny bajh works for blizzard and always defends them asmond is wrong about a lot of things but this dudes vibe is off
@@javierpet305 Bajh works for blizzard? Since when? Why can't we deny it if your statement is 100% wrong? Supa, Venruki and others do work for Blizzard but Bajheera doesn't. Idk if you are aware of it.
I think the main problem of wow pvp is barrier of entry and button bloat on some classes, class design is another topic but when a pve players wants to try pvp for the first time they face pvp gear scaling, they now need to invest in another set of gear and needs to be destroyed in BG's again and again until they get some gear which is a horrible feeling, pvp scaling shouldnt be a thing imo, it would massively reduce barrier of entry
If there wasn't pvp scaling, then pve gear would be mandatory for pvp. We've passed by it already, It's not fun to be obligated to raid not to be left behind in pvp because everyone is getting an overpowered trinket or weapon. Even with scaling we can see every high pvp rated warrior or paladin using the legendary axe.
This is already a solved problem, it's not worth bringing it back.
@@glndopangamer Well clearly not a good solution to that problem
@@mehmetozturk771 Yes, but yours managed to be an even worse solution than blizzard's.
Well I disagree, having pve gear somewhat viable entry point into pvp is so much better than getting into pvp with pve gear and farmed
@@mehmetozturk771 but it is... have you even tried pvp lately? It's not going to be the best gear but it's totally possible to carry your pve gear to start pvping.
Guild Wars 2 provided me with some of the most memorable PvP experiences. Its battleground system is truly a masterpiece. It gives the feeling of World of Warcraft combined with the ability design of League of Legends, where fewer but highly impactful abilities lead to intricate interactions between classes. The smaller team sizes also make your individual contributions feel much more significant. MMORPGs can absolutely be balanced with PvP in mind.
Asmongold is an insufferable doomer. That being said, I believe Asmongold raises a valid point about the number of abilities in WoW. Many of us have been playing WoW for years and have somewhat lost the ability to understand how daunting it can be for newcomers to get into WoW PvP. Even executing a simple rotation can be challenging for new players. Imagine struggling with a simple rotation while simultaneously dealing with opponents relentlessly attacking you in the arena as a new player. That would likely not be an enjoyable experience at all. I also don't believe at all that WoW PvP (particularly arena) is playable without addons. Even for really low skill WoW PvP, simply having trinket timers is a MASSIVE advantage. Calling this a "skill-issue" is reductive to a legitimate issue with onboarding new players.
I think it's important for WoW PvPers to identify the true issues WoW PvP has so we don't end up relentlessly praising the game to contrast people like Asmongold who do nothing but complain about it. I think when Asmon says he has trouble understanding PvP, it should be a real indicator for developers. A person who has played this game for 20 years is having trouble with understanding PvP while new players are expected to take on a much steeper learning curve.
Asmongold has the most complete cooked takes in the industry
Add ons have ruined WoW pvp. It’s the equivalent of having aim bot. Just do away with add ons
I agree 100% everyone plays the game like robots with their add ons telling them what to do. I think no add ons would create a better fight with actual strategy instead of weathering the storm till your add on says your opponent has no CDs then burst them down
@@codycroce2489 Honestly the best time for WoW pvp competitively was when they had to do Arenas with no Add-ons. To me that's where the true skill shines when you have to be watching and communicating what you see or know to your teammates, not have an air horn blaring with flashing lights telling you every CC timer
we can t play with not add ^^
Every single pvp game in the world has a steep learning curve, otherwise there would be very little skill expression.. I don't understand this point of "WoW pvp is hard to start, so play lol" As if LoL is easy to get into?
Yea like how many individual legends are there with 5/6 spells each as well as how many items are there to buy for each one in a match of league.
That isn't true at all. There's learning curve and then there's skill ceiling. Games should be simple to learn, hard to master.
Not exactly a pvp game, but Dark Souls is similar to this in that it's notorious for being "hard" but it's incredibly simple to understand and play.
@@michaelm6179 WoW does have a simple way to learn pvp through world PvP, dueling and Battlegrounds to begin, with the learning curve coming with learning your own class, and slowly learning the others.
The amount to learn isn't actually that much, certainly not more than any Moba. Since you only really have to remember a couple of cd's per class.
This is all coming from someone who never PvP'd in wow till Shadowlands and went from not knowing anything to being Glad.
What a weird comparison. Two completely different games. WoW has 20+ abilities per class while LoL has 6 + actives
@@Spaghetti-cowboy 6 actives across 168 different champions, 20 spells across 33 different specs excluding tanks.
Main problem of WoW's pvp to me are
1: Match maker and how awful it is to actually making even remotely balaced teams.
2: Barrier of entry. I think one of the worst things is that you have to suffer with crap gear for too many hours to finally be even remotely on same level as people who have better gear making pvp unplayable for people who start pvp later. The second thing is that when you finally get that gear its patch day again and all the gearing was basically useless which is why i prefer GW2 pvp over wow's as i can just hop in and have fun. To me gearing is just not fun part of pvp.
4: Class balance or really lack of it because mostly lets be honest the game has way too many classes to ever be balanced with blizzards current almost zero people who are on that job.
5: Button bloat this thing to me makes both PvE and PvP really annoying to play and to be frankly i do not understand why every class has to have 27 different buttons for damage that basically just do same thing it just resembles the thing that there is just lots of buttons for the sake of having buttons.
6: Lack of new actually thought out things for pvp.
7: Visual clutter. To me game has too much crap going on and spell visuals in pvp are just too much and too distracting.
Couldn’t agree more
Gearing takes 3 hours, and there is no bitton bloat on most classes anymore, its just instant gradification mentality nowdays people want everything instant in asecond and dont want to work for anything at all, same goes in the games too, there is no barrier of entry.. if u really like something working towards your goal shouldnt be an issue. MMORPG games were always like this, also class balance shoudlnt even be important and its that much funnier when not seriously balanced
1: perfect balance is impossible in an MMO like wow, that's why balancing changes are necessary to shift the meta every now and then. But it's objectively impossible to achieve balance in any ability-based-pvp game. And if you think otherwise, give me one example.
2: if you were talking about SL, BFA, Wotlk, MOP pvp I would definitely agree with you, because It would take a full week just to get full honor gear. Also the power difference between honor and conquest gear in SL was insane to the point that it was impossible to play against. But in DF it will take you probably 2 hours tops to get full honor and also, the power difference is the lowest we've ever seen in wow history. It's totally possible to climb in full honor against full conquest players.
4(for some reason you skipped 3): I've said it already, it's impossible to achieve perfect balance in any game that has ability-based pvp. That being said, I think blizzard is doing a great job in DF because every single spec is viable today, they might not be fun for you, but it's strong in the hands of a skilled player.
5: I don't know if you played Wrath, which is one of the most loved wow expansions to date, but comparing my feral druid today to my feral in Wotlk, my warlock, my rogue, I have way less buttons to press in DF. I agree that some classes deserve to be looked at, such as frost mage. But the button bloat argument, especially if you're using it to say that pvers are not trying pvp is just wrong. Pvers don't try pvp because they don't like pvp, period. It's not a game issue.
6: I don't understand if you meant skillwise, or lack of bgs and arenas. But honestly I see that blizzard is trying to put more content for us based on player feedback. Solo Shuffle was highly requested for years, BG blitz is going to put a lot of life into the game.
7: I don't think this is something that pushes people away from trying pvp. It might be an issue that pushes people away from the game itself, but in pvp you have way way less visual clutter than in raids or dungeons.
@@Undertaker257idk man. I don’t disagree but people don’t got time for that. The reason league of legends is popular is it’s basically mmo in microcosm (start with nothing. Gear up with gold. Level up. Fight. Game ends. Rinse repeat) in 30 mins. And it’s 5 players co-op game with much less skill buttons. It’s easier to get into and easier to play
@@JL-od4ui and thats the difference between moba and rpg, rpg takes time and everyone should know before entering.
asmon wasnt saying that existing wow content creators sould stop, but he was saying that it would be better/easier to NEW player start making career on some other pvp game.
he literally telling them to stop and not even try
@@schmooplesthesecond5997 timestamp?
He legitimately said the other day he’s officially never playing wow again, so yes he is just justifying his decision.
Came back after a break since Wotlk to S2 of DF and have gotten 3.5k plus in each mythic season as a tank. So my healer and I decided to PvP for the first time yesterday and we had no clue on what was going on, so different and so many spells to account for. We were getting crushed so bad it was laughable but we still continued. If it wasn’t for her and I was queuing by myself I would have quit. I’d suggest pairing up with people to make the pain of getting crushed as a new player less painful lol. She’s already texting me when am I getting off work to log on so we can practice/get crushed lol. But hey she’s my mythic healer so I’ll endure the pain because she likes to PvP even though she’s not good at it and neither am I 😂
I agree that wow pvp is far from perfect and lacks a lot compared to today's games, especially the ecosystem, which should be improved.
But wow retail's pvp gameplay at its root is the best pvp I've ever played in my life.
I love PvP in retail but I’m not going to pretend it’s balanced or good just because I enjoy it. It’s been on the decline and that’s sad 😔
Everything is on the decline. But at least as someone who plays it, you have valid footing to say this LOL
I don't necessarily think it's on the decline. Sure, as an expansion goes on people stop playing as much as the first season but imo pvp in DF is much better than SL and BFA.
@@NemisisRecords if you watch someone cook a literal dogshit, and then you watch someone eat that cooked dogsht, can you as someone (who watched it) have an opinion on the meal that was cooked and eaten?
@@connormoorerocks No, you don't get an opinion. You are just a weirdo who watched someone eat shit. You're just a malding react viewer who has to experience the world through a surrogate to form opinions because you're incapable of independent thought.
@@connormoorerocksyou’re comparing “food” to entertainment. That’s bad comparison, a better one would be sports.
I miss when Asmon made actual content instead of just sitting in front of other peoples content for the entire day giving hot takes regardless of accuracy or not. I feel kinda bad for Asmon in a way too because he's a creative guy, but that's not what his fans these days wanna see. And so Asmon has traded in a fun job for a profitable one. That's why I think Asmon is a sellout. Not because he makes all of this money. Hell, make your paper boo boo. But I think of him as a sellout in the sense that he sold himself out. He very rarely gets to enjoy anything he does or any games he plays. He doesn't do anything for himself since every time he said he goes to he just thinks "I could be streaming this." by his own admittance. Like yeah streaming is Bajheera's day job now, but he still does things for himself. I don't mean his style of reacting to things but I mean like his weight lifting/body sculpting, etc., etc.. But even then he's still talking to us. But I think he still hits the gym with the boys off stream on occasion. I wonder when the last time Asmon went outside to do anything fun with friends that didn't involve streaming.
It felt like Asmongold was deliberately trying to farm negative reactions because it's WoW LMAO, just how it felt like to me, I think he's smart enough to know half the shit he said was probably BS
Really enjoy your takes. Always nice to see a level-headed veteran MMORPG player weigh in!
I'm a PVE player and the reason i dont like PVP is because it feels like my class plays very differently in PVP, its hard for me to adjust. I'm sure that if invest the time i could get used to it and could get better at it, but im just trying to casually play PVP here and there, so having my character feel alien to me is a turn off, i dont want to have to juggle more builds and playstyles. I don't even like having to change my build between raid and mythic+ so maybe i'm just a lost cause when it comes to PVP
Love King Baj, but I absolutely disagree with PvE gear in rated PvP. If equipped, those slots should be 0d no stats no IL nothing. You want to run around with it in BGs, Kool, go seal clubbing in BGs, but never should PvE kit be remotely close to BiS in PvP. Also, I would note that Baj is still playing despite being BiS and having no kit/progression for weeks now. I and the other 4 players I mainly play with are intentionally skipping S4 because of the presence of PvE kit in PvP. I don't even want rings or trinkets or anything else.
Man, you better check before you call people racist in a video lol. You can't be like "this dudes a racist bad person" and then say "I'm not sure". Talking about asmon being cooked 🤣
He's all flustered because people are talking cold hard facts about the only thing he does in wow.
He tried to discredit immediately without any factual information which is absurd.
@@iPoTeNcYy facts? You guys are all being crazy. People that don't play pvp shouldn't comment on the pvp state.
Ironic that you made up a quote in your statement on making sure you are not making up facts.
@@glndopangamer We can certainly comment on the reasons we don't play it. If we start saying crap like RMP is a terrible comp then yeah we don't play and shouldn't comment. However to say we can't comment on WoW pvp at all, especially all the reasons we don't like it and don't play it, is kind of absurd.
@@christopherozouf Sure, but you have to know how the current state of pvp is to comment about it. Stating things that were changed ages ago is terrible, pushes other people away from even trying.
People here are saying honor gear is difficult to get and its power level is a joke in comparison to conquest.
They have also said that you can't carry your pve gear to pvp to at least test and try it out, which is not true at all, since in season 4 of DF R1s are all using pve off parts and the legendary weapon for warriors and paladins.
If you don't play pvp but want to comment why you don't play it, you should at least know its state.
think you guys that doing reaction to a reaction need to stop and actually set up a talk/debate on why wow is bad vs. wow is still a decent game to what you actually think deal.
Honestly really liking Retail pvp atm, left for a few months in dragonflight only to return and get my first 2k rating in pvp in solo que. So in my opinion its probably the best its been.
starting elo is 1950, and the game is still dead
@@shani9andri11 ?
@@isosceles1476 i meant blizz gave free duelist this season and still noone is playing, kind of sad
@@shani9andri11 no they didn't.. What are you saying.. And it's not dead.. If you watched the video.. Bandwagon jumper.
why i stopped watching asmon, its impossible for nuanced takes or for him to be seen as wrong, the ego is massive
The problem is unless your a full time streamer it’s kind of hard to play as once you hit 2200 rating you are waiting like a hr for a que pop in shuffle, so if you work full time you have say maybe 2 or 3 hours a day to play so I can play 3 or 4 games every day so it’s just not worth it
i dont play the game = game is dead. what could be more narcissistic than that?
Finally I can get content on my TH-cam that isn’t shitting on wow to just shit on it because hate content gets views. All these boomers talking crap about literally every version of the game even though DF was good, Sod is literally made for blizzard to test stuff, and people who don’t even play on classic era complaining about classic era
Asmon is totally right
I was with bajheera at the beggining and asmong was way overboard but seeing the cope afterwards on solid points i switched. The truth is wow pvp is smaller scene professionally/streaming. If your joining a company you can take a crack at a startup or small company that pays shit but you hope to move up, or you can choose to go to an established company where you know what opportunities you have for growth. It just makes sense. Yes you can make your own path but if you want to make money or grow your career reliably you go to the established company.
Also wow pvp is not friendly to new players. There is a huge steep hill to get over. Idk why they havent introduced ilvl brackets. I guess they dont have enough population to not have the que be super long. And that is the snake eating its own tail. Ive tried getting 4 people into wow pvp and failed because the hill was so steep it really make people think if they want to spend their free time on a game they dont know if they gonna like after 12 hours of grinding losses.
I guess wow pvp is a great game for new players 20 years ago when no one knew what was going on. They forget players found love for pvp in a way is just not possible anymore. They have to make a new way to get noobs in and having them get pounded by full gear players is NOT it.
6:07 Uttering that sentence is the most cooked thing i have ever heard. Its better than LoL and Dota? Its better than CS and Valorant? Its better than Street Fighter and Teken? Its Better than Starcraft and Warcraft? Your brain is too Arena pilled to work properly.
6:49 You literally did this at with the "WoW PvP is actually the best PvP in any game ever."
I always enjoy watching bajheera, he isnt forgettable but somehow i always forget about his channel and twitch. I need to start watching him again.
Younger kids just dont want to put the time it takes into the game to get better even though there are infinitely more amounts of resources to help them improve and get better at PVP through guides and streams. In the early days of wow it was all word of mouth and wondering wtf Swifty was doing in his youtube montages in the early days of youtube. They also dont want to be social and ask other players to play, theyd rather be thrown into a lobby with randoms which prevents improving to an extent.
Idk man, the biggest issue I had getting into WoW PvP was setting up a bunch of add-ons. Not to mention, idc about being gladiator, but I hate the feeling of the other guy having all the information on everything I do.
Try playing Starcraft 2 when the other guy has maphacks and you don't. The extent of some of these add-ons involvement in the gameplay is cheating in any other game.
I'd love to "put the time in", but frankly, I don't find the current state fun and therefore can't be bothered putting the time in. Asmon is just giving the perspective of the everyday gamer.
then how do you explain younger kids playing lol?
@@wondejaxus im not saying all of them, i think just a majority of the more casual people view it that way.
@@michaelm6179 yes i agree with this as well, to be good at the game you have to go way above and beyond just playing well by adding all of these extra addons and additions to make your UI look like a NASA information center lol. Would be nice if blizz did something about it to even the playing field.
Asmon with yet another definitive "i know better than everyone else, this is how it is" statement? Shocker...
My only issue with wow pvp is healing in solo shuffle. It's freaking rough for me 😂
I love asmongold, but his takes about wow pvp were just not true very deceiving and overall very bad takes. Well said Bajheera Big FLex
Problem,. 0 rating, green pvp gear, 515 ilvl, get into solo shuffle to learn, get stomped 6 round in row in a 1500 mmr lobby and you do not learn by getting stomped constantly and the fact solo shuffle queues can take up to an hour to pop, it's shit. I've hit 2k+ solo shuffle aswell, if you don't start at the start you are just gonna feel stress and depression
People often forget that the only real way to practice is through skirmishes or solo shuffle, which is really not a great way to learn the actual intricacies of arena
Blizzard really needs to remove mods that play the game for you or tell you what to do in PVE and PVP. The only mods that should be allowed are convenience mods like Bagnon, etc.
There is no addon that plays the game for you, stop listening to asmongold lmao
@@lunaticmode638 There absolutely is. I don’t watch Asmongold, I’m perfectly capable of forming my own opinions thank you very much.
@@heavyd834 Tell me the addons that supposedly play the game for you
It's not really coincidence that the vast majority of people who really love pvp and are high rating.. have also done it for who knows how long, most of them probably 5+ years at least. Wow does have the best mmo pvp, and it's not even remotely close but, I don't know ever since wod ended.. it just hasn't felt the same for me, and i've really steered away from it. All the points brought up in the video .. none of them really hit the nail on the head for me, for me i think it was just an age thing, like i don't care about being competitive anymore, or comparing myself to others, or constantly striving to be insane. All that being said.. it is.. immensely insane to get into wow pvp, with everything required.. compared to a game like league or something where you just.. install the game and queue, wow has so many extra steps it's silly, if they could work on anything, i think it should absolutely be the accessibility of it all.
Reduce pvp buttons to 16-20, alter the talent trees to be more pvp focused instead of having just 3 pvp talents (or keep both), equalize stats for all ranked (day 1 of the season), make pvp progression more interesting for unranked and world pvp, incorporate addon-like feature into the games ui. Maybe I'm missing things, but I'm open to other things too.
its not pvp bad, people do not like new things and new mechanics and lazy to teach something new, thats a problem
Not really laziness, just not enjoyable. Remember, it's not my job to find Blizzard's game fun, it's Blizzard's job to make the game fun. If only 5% or so of your player finds a major activity in your game fun, then you need to address the issues or at least acknowledge the issues that are pushing 95% of your player base away.
but pvp has content to watch...(aka pve tournament in blizzcon most boring thing ever) thats why most famous twitch streamers are pvpers, pvp is more than just killing players, its the feeling you get when you kick the a@ss of other guys, this is a man's world!
I guess Call of Duty and Battlefield are failed games considering they have a progression system making matches unfair.
okay while asmond can be a dick about a lot of stuff, that being said, retail wow pvp peaked at MoP 5.4 and I've played almost every expansion and the 2 i missed I did follow on release. I've said for a while but they should honestly just release a second game "WoW: Arena" and make it a streamlined version of just the pvp in wow, with a menu and shit like LoL, tune the game for PvP'er in mind and it's a win win because then retail can focus on pve shit like they have basically been doing for awhile anyway, pvp always feels like an after thought in design
Asmongold cant complain about "every class has everything" and "button bloat" and then think MoP is peak, where every class LITERALLY had everything + 4 hotbars worth of buttons lmao
Yo i started playing 4 months ago. Ye the fist 1 or 2 were confusing cuz you need to learn a lot of things about your class and other classes aswell but wtf is he talking about. This dude is completely fried. After 4 months im already close to 2000 rating only by watching streams and youtube videos. What you mean its hard for new players ofc it is. Every fking game is hard when you are new. Like what you think its gonna happen when you Q in league the game will start in challenger with every champ unlocked or what. No you first need to level your account you need to buy certain number of champs in order to be able to Q in ranked and then you play with the noobs until you get better and start actually enjoy the game. Like every fking game thats WoW too first you level your charecter then buy or farm some starter gear and Q for bgs until you get conq gear so you can be competitive and start climbing thats not something new in the gaming world Jesus Christ.
Class balance is an issue. Some classes have way more self heals, utility, defensives than other classes. Thats def an advantage in PVP.
I don’t understand people who complain about gear. It’s basically free. Remember gearing in past? In order to start u have to grind honor gear 2 seasons behind. So u fighting ppl in inferior gear and it is still was cool. Also, question “why u need gear in pvp? “ same answer for question “why u need gear in pve?”. So stupid question
My Opinion why the Game "PVP" Is bad is Class Designe, it should be like it was in Wotlk-Cata-Mop from Resilience and Healing/Dps should be like it was back in those Days.. You want intressting and Fun Abilities while also have massive Oneshot Macros and good Burst Combos like in those Expensions. You wanna feel satisfaction by pressing Keybinds and Abilitys wich you dont realy feel in modern WOW everything feels the same doesnt matter what Damage Abilitie you use it feels all the same. No Satisfaction out of pressing Buttons and playing my Class, the Rotations dont quite have it anymore i miss the Days of Warriors where Heroic Strike was off the Global Cooldown and you had Recklessnes but not the Recklessnes from Legion i talk about the real Recklessnes the one where you turned Red and around your Character some Red Bubble type of Rainbows poped up :D.. I miss the Days of Frost Mages with Deepfrezze and Orb Shatter Gameplay with Icelances into Deep i miss Marksman Hunters Aimedshot into Cimerashot not that tuned down wierdo Version of Cimerashot thats some half ass wierdo Shot. I talk about the Oldschool Cimerashot yeah overall Things like that and what also made PVP so freaking Fun was getting cool looking Elite Gear one of the Systems from Wotlk-Cata-Mop would be enaugh idk if they go the Route of Wotlk where you get 1550 Pants 1750 Chest 2000 Shoulders and Stuff or just overall 2.200 Rating Weapons,Elite Armor and bring in Tabards at a Vendor wich you only get if you reach certain Rating good looking ones like the ones from Wotlk S6,7,8.. Till this Day they never made Tabards that looked as good as they did back then not even close.. Those Things i miss about the Game real Class Designe a good feeling of Pressing Abilities and Keybinds having Onshot Macros and Fun while playing your Class and Battlegrounds,Arenas i never undrestood that Idea of lets nerf and take away Burst Combinations and CC thats actually what makes you wanna play! Why should you wanna play a Game that has no Depth and Ablities why should i as a Arms Warrior or Rogue not love to Pop Recklessnes,Dps Trinket Collosos Smash and get a Charge of into some Brutall Mortal Strike Overpower Heroic Strike Combo?!?!? Or a big Burst Shadowdance with Trinket into Cheapshot Ambush Spamms xD i mean who thinks the Player base wants you to take away Recklessnes and Cimerashot and Burst Combos so the Game is a bit more balanced out but overall you Lose all Players? Simply because all you have is Stationary Damage with 5 Dps Buttons you constantly do Pve Rotations with every Ability on a 1 Second Global Cooldown wich makes it super slow and boring People love to have Setups Fear a Healer then pop your Oneshot Macro or one of your smaller Cds that have a little less Cooldown then your big Ones and go for a Kill or have a Deepfrezze into Polymorph and go for a Orb into Icelance Spamm to land a Kill.. Things like that is what i miss and its so overflowen with Animations but at the same Time downgradet with Skill and Satisfaction you get from pressing Buttons hard to explaine xD.. Overall its easy to tell you what to change if you read this Blizzard what worked?? Wotlk,Cata,Mop what didnt work?? Pretty much everything since Legion everything later after those Expensions ende wasnt the same, when Mythic + Dungeons came into the Game everything changed and became super wierd and Classes felt super bad .. I know for some Players its all about having some Pokemon Pets and collection some Mounts but to most People and you can see that based on Player Numbers being super low its the Depth of the Game/Class Designe having Oneshot Macros cool Dps Rotations and Abilities and yeah just overall a realy nice feeling a rewarding feeling by pressing Buttons i just dont get that anymore in Retail WOW i simply dont ..
I play WoW only for PVP, i dont know what is in the head of PVE players. PVE is brain dead i don t even understand why would i play this except for gear.
it was raiku that was the racist one and i think it is grotesque that blizzard allows him to be in the awc still.
Its obvious you guys were getting salty with what was being said but if you look at the numbers for WoW PvP they're absolutely in the right. Not a lot of people care about WoW PvP because the majority doesnt find it attractive and fun, its just isnt very well designed and MMOs that try to make it intricate and complex are just shooting themselves in the foot. Hell, do you seriously think Blizzard themselves has been caring about WoW PvP all this time? Its time to wake up.
Baldys takes are mostly pointing to newer players and he is mostly right. WoW barely gets new players and do people really think they invest hundreds of hours into learning pvp, spreadsheeding it, configurating addons for it ? barely at all. I mentored some new players i hooked up and most of them were ust in general overwhelmed and left the game in 1-3 months. You dont only need to know YOUR class stuff, you need to know literally anything to even stand a chance in arena.
I love wow PvP. Best PvP experience I’ve had in a game
Agreed with not liking sitting in cc for 30 seconds in a row, and some other good points were made. But WoW PvP is more dead than alive, not sure why people who played the game for 20 years in a row are coping so hard.
Firstly, thanks for your content. I’ve enjoyed watching your videos, even when taking long breaks from wow, to keep up with what’s going on. Personally, I think wow pvp is by far the best pvp experience you can find in an MMO. I’ve really enjoyed Elder Scrolls Online pvp because of how casual it is.. However, wow wins in that department. I’ve always been a pvp focused player and had successful seasons and and seasons where I got shat on. I’m a very inconsistent player who just enjoys the game. Wow pvp is like anything that is truly competitive… it takes time, energy, commitment, practice, dedication, and the willingness to do of what I just listed. Without that, you will truly not be a top ranked player. I’m an avid tennis player and spend hours a week playing and watching how other players play at my level to help me grow. The one knock I do have with wow pvp is I feel like entry level is really, really tough. I don’t have a problem with that, I just wish they’re was a more effective way for a new player to get into it at a slower pace. Also, some players are just nervous to do it because of the giga chads who are criticize every play they make. I think something that would make this game better in rated sense would having better bracket set up for players. The match making system is sometimes crap, but there’s other reasons why that’s the case. Once again, love your content!
The Last time I tried to pvp was in shadowlands and it felt aweful. I would never play pvp in wow again. Not worth the time and frustation.
i like asmon and some of these streamers sometimes but why they keep talking on wow pvp, some cant even beat someone in a duel and keep giving opinions
90% M+ and 10% PvP has got to be wrong. It’s like 30% of people who play wow do M+ and like maybe 2% do arena, and 1% of them are also doing M+
Im confused as to why people are saying that WoW has too much info to learn...
Lets compare for a second:
WoW - 13 Classes, 3 Specs per class (Druid and DH cancel eachother out so it's 3 per class). That gives us 39 specs. There are also 6 tank specs that are irrelevant for PvP, so its really 33 specs.
Each spec has maybe 10 abilities you really have to learn, and i feel thats being generous there. So that's 330 abilities to learn.
Sounds like a lot at first, BUT let's look at League.
League - 168 Champions, 4 abilities and 1 passive per champion. That's 840 abilities to learn for LoL. And in LoL EVERY ability matters.
Getting very tired of people meat riding LoL in these comparisons. It is not better. I am Emerald in LoL as well as 2500+ in WoW i know both of these games like the back of my hand. WoW is the simpler game.
I think it’s case by case. All I can say is that from someone who doesn’t play either game.. it’s way easier to follow league match and fun compare to WoW PvP tournament.
Asmongold y little too extreme, but getting someone into bg’s or arena and being a new player is so hard.😅
regardless of my own opinion on WoW PvP, I thoroughly enjoy the back and forth between these guys. probably my four favourite WoW creators for different reasons. I do feel people sometimes are almost trying to misunderstand Asmons point and putting words in his mouth. They underestimate how much of a massive minority PvP only crowd is. WoW pvp is TINY, both compared to PvE and especially compared to serious competitive pvp games
I mostly dont like Ranked pvp team modes
so if there would be a 1v1 que, I would play a couple hours every day for sure. (however I know that this will never happen and it would probl be very unbalanced)
I like your honest take on how asmon just talks out of his ass and trys to make it sound right even if its just false.
however if pvp would be as good as you guys say, would there not be more games played at high lvl or more interrest in general? I mean who do you want to blame for this, if its not balance or fun? the lack of incetive given to you by the game? the type of ppl that play wow nowdays? the limited internet Career chances it provides?
or maybe it is a combination of it all?
For me its Incentive + Balance + Fair playing ground
Incentive
I never had a problem to grind pvp for my pve gear and vice versa, I liked it a lot even. for me pvp is a part of the game and should be a must visit for everyone who wants to be competitive.
Balance
I know that you can beat pretty mouch anything with everything and that ppl that complain about balance are just bad more often then not, however some classes are just better then others, even if its just by a tiny bit + there are classes that have an easyer time doing the same thing as others. if you play one of the classes that have a harder time and are not quite as strong as others, you will feel a big difference if you reroll on a easy S tier spec.
so I think to say something like "balance is fine because you just have to get good" lacks compassion and mostly applys to really low ranked or new individuals.
Fair playing ground
I dont like to have an advantage or disadvantage in ranked competition that is not skill based, either way it feels unfair and therefore diminishes the fun I have.
this is why for me legion pvp felt the best. wich is interresting because you did not like legion as mouch as the other expansions in pvp, because of the how you lost control about your characters stats. and on that I aggree, I love to simcraft and loosig control over your secondary stats is a big price to pay. however there would be a easy fix.
they could just make Str/Stam/Armor have this base value that can not be changed, and how your secondary stats are balanced comes with some kind of socked system in your pvp insignia (that can be changed like talents)
to this point I like to ad that addons are doing the same thing. if you dont download everything you can, you are just ad an disadvantage and thats soo terrible for every new comer and veteran and casual alike.
it's just so unfair and sad to hear from Asmon that '''nobody cares about the pvp'''. This just gonna make bad influence overall on newcomers who wanna start WoW PvP. Instead of he mentions what could be done to make WoW PvP better he gets in that mood to telling ppl just to quit wow pvp is so sad man.
WoW PvP sums up to
1. Toxic community telling people to delete the game when they lose in 3s
2. 300 people who’ve been playing this game 10+ years with 4 alts farming and stomping new players
3. No new players so you have to compete against people like Xaryu, Baj, Venruki etc. played this game for 10+ years
Yeah no thanks. I will play something else…
You’re pretending warriors weren’t insane in versions of the game that had long cc chains
not because of warrior's cc though. It was always because of the comp and the warriors high value with Mortal Strike. You guys just seem to forget that the game is balanced around 3v3 not 1v1.
"Gear is super easy to get. You may have to get your butt kicked a few times in BGs till you can get some and then you'll see how strong you are"
Ok genius if gear is supposed to be easy to acquire, what the fuck is even the point to having gear metrics in a PvP mode in the first place? There is no sense of power progression unlike PvE where it takes longer to feel that satisfaction of getting stronger. The whole point of PvP is to have an even playing field on both sides and the one who is more skilled and knowledgable should win. Gear shouldnt factor that fairness between two human opponents or groups. Imagine if thats how irl sports worked, if a baseball team has a major advantage due to better equipment.
This argument is extremely stupid. Hell fucking FFXIV's revamped PvP battle system is much better than WoW's because nothing bloated, there's no arbitrary power progression with gearing, it isnt complex and they simplified each class to have its own playstyle with just a few buttons. Its very easy to read whats going on and new players can easily learn their class in PvP because the playstyles are simple to learn but hard to master. Players dont have starting advantages or disadvantages over each one another and its how a PvP mode should be balanced on. And this is with saying how awful FFXIV's combat is anyway.
I mean How can you say someone is wrong if he just expresses his opinion? He doesnt like soemthing and he gives you reasons why he doesnt like it, he is not wrong just because u like it and he doesnt.
Usually you only get stuck in long cc chains if you mess up, it’s not like it’s unavoidable. Or that’s how it should be
The only way for WoW to remain active and changing over time, for those who want the old gameplay are the classic servers.
I believe that this conversation would have to be a constructive opinion about changes in gameplay and not a generalized complaint about something that has nothing to do with it, because if you like playing classic it is there for you, adapt to the new times, learn and short.
You should try focusing on the points. Asmon said "No MMO pvp is good" You then go on MULTIPLE rants about how he is always making bold statements and is allway wrong. Maybe respond with "I think MMO pvp is good because..."
Asmon: "pvp has been dead since mop"
Bajeera: "omg what is he talking about!? I've been playing and it's the basis of my content"
Yeah and you get less than 5k views per video bro. Are you just in denial, or?
I was thinking about this myself & even though I think the reasons why I disagree are obvious (and provided some examples) I think it's a good habit to explain my position more rather than assuming everyone can understand what I think is blatantly clear. Learning how to do reaction / discussion vids is something I can learn & improve at, thanks for the feedback!
"jennys been glad shes popping off" dont you mean you and another r1 or blizzcon champ carried her? ya if i could play with you and another r1 id easily hit glad too. doesnt mean she put any effort in
Dude that’s a dumb comment. You’re just making stuff up to fit a narrative
@@slanderpop8771 what do you mean? He’s talking about his wife and they definetlynjust boosted her but for free
@danielhanson1434 she's probably miles better than you man it's OK
I think if you keep having the attitude of "if i could have" and "why not me" you'll find that you'll never get it and it would never be you. Why are you worried about another person's rating so much, just keep playing and keep getting better. Put in the effort and it'll come to you in time.
I agree with you Baj you are absolutely right..
It is strange to hear an absolute take on wow pvp from a person who refuses to play wow pvp lol. Asmongold knows how to stir the pot that much is clear.