"Is WoW Too Complicated?" - Pika Reacts
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 4 ก.ค. 2023
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#goldenguardians #wowpvp #pikaboo - เกม
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The most underrtted thing they never talked about was, the abilities you needed to remember from other classes, otherwise you become dog food anyway.
That comes with playing the game it’ll take some time I don’t even have to try to recognize what the abilities in the game do for every class I just know
Well done Ronald, you’ve cracked it. Proud of you. It really is that simple everyone. No issues here.
@@effortlessGFX why are you being an asshole all I said was it comes with time there’s no need to rush that I don’t see how you view my comment as me trying to say it’s an easy fix or something
I think blizzard should add their own interface to show you enemy class defensives or what not
Omnibar let’s you scroll through every class cd in their menu and check off the ones you want icons for, even if you don’t use the icons, it’s a quick way to comb through all the classes and see major offensives and defensives
You open Valorant you queue for a game.
You open League/Dota you queue for a game.
You open wow and pay monthly to do chores because the minigame we like to play is trapped in a MMO.
Wrong as of DF. Even Shadowlands had minimal amounts of chores for PvP. But DF is full gear in 5 hours playtime at max level.
@@trivial50 "But DF is full gear in 5 hours playtime at max level." Uhh define full gear? Full honor gear with embellishments? Sure, but with how long epic bgs can last, 20-30 minutes each, 5 hours is probably not right. 6-7 hours, in other words, a full day of playtime, maybe. To even become competitive.
Tier? No. Full conquest? Hell no, unless you got a good teammate to play with to spam arenas with.
@@trivial50 it can be even quicker depending on wins / weekly events
MINIGAME trapped in a MMO, Just brilliant!
@@trivial50only 5hours, after max level. Guess i must be glad. In cs go, i can open the game on a brand new account, and just play pvp, same on dota, lol, valorant... 😂😂😂😂
Pika is vastly underestimating how much prep is needed to even play comp WoW PvP compared to your avg comp FPS. Leveling, gearing, setting up basic addons (arena frame + dr tracker at least), finding someone to play with to even get started at low rating. You dont even need all the fancy macros/WAs etc but the barriers are still massive.
Yeah hes missing the point completely lol, obviously there is a learning curve to games. but you have to do and add so much shit to play wow. its not even close, but he did read a comment that said cope, and he is full of copeium for sure
i know im late but him comparing it to fps games and their settings was some of the biggest cope ive heard today. As a new player i can tell you this game is not new player friendly at all lmao.
Literally all of that is a basic part of mmorpgs.
If you don't like that this genre isn't for you
@@harrisonbannerman7412 Addons are not a basic part of mmorpgs. WoWs design is so bad it makes them nearly required. other games its for simple quality of life or just aesthetics. Also not as much prep for other mmos as much as wow. Also if you read okandokandast they are comparing it to fps. Has nothing to do with whether they like it or not, its just a comparison that pika is claiming is the same, which it isnt. Setting up your peripherals and your Game Settings is something people do for every game(even single player ones).
Sure, the issue however is that competitive PvP games don't work when no one's playing them, and people don't play because the "do tons to get started PvPing" genre doesn't appeal to a sufficient amount of PvPers.
This (along with a myriad of other reasons making PvP in WoW awful) causes the regular negative spiral of people quitting due to not enough people playing that we're currently starting to see.
The main problem with WoW is the fact that you need outside websites to play the game optimally. The lack of in game information on how to play your toon whether that's pve or pvp is really bad. A lot of tooltips are just plainly labelled wrong, no where does it tell you what you should be aiming for gear wise. Good luck finding out what diminishing returns are. New players need more information to make their journey a smoother experience.
try path of exile
This goes for Venruki's example as well: Counterstrike, on the surface, looks like a very simple game. But 80% of players are still in silver/gold (the lowest ranks). If you really want to play like the pros, you have to take into account your and your enemy's economy, know your timings, know your flashes/smokes, play on sound etc. which - you guessed it - also requires some form of external help like the websites you'r talking about. One could almost say that there's enough handholding in WoW to make it just as "easy" to just pick up and play as CSGO.
@@robbin2331 That's completely fair, but I feel like it's harder in WoW. CSGO only has maybe 20 weapons and 5 grenades, that every player can buy. WoW has 40 abilities per class, with an added racial ability, borrowed power (haven't played lots of DF so not sure if it still has it). Me as an "experienced" WoW player it's not that overwhelming, but I can imagine WoW being way more overwhelming than CSGO for new players.
That being said, CSGO doesn't have PvE, thus learning the game requires you to play with 4 others against 5 others. Whereas in WoW you can learn the game at your own pace while leveling.
@@robbin2331i think valorant is a better example of a game that’s extremely new player/casual friendly. csgo u still need to know lineups at this point because of the older player base, but with valo they took a lot of the pressure off by having smokes be just point and click. yeah you can learn like molly lines up but i don’t think it’s really that impactful until like literal pro play/high immortal/radiant. i think establishing a stronger foundation in wow would be much healthier for the longevity of the game and to introduce new players to the game - just take away all this extra shit that is really unnecessary and let people do what they wanna do, which really is m+/raiding/pvp. i think blizzard should look at the good things from classic servers and live servers and combine them to make a genuinely enjoyable game again.
@@derlou88 yeah PoE is an even worse version of needing outside software and information in order to play the game. Casuals never have a chance. I've tried getting like 10 of my friends to play the game and only 1 has ever even made it to endgame, yet all of them play wow endgame at at least a semi-hardcore manner.
He's so right about how unwelcoming and negative the community is... sure the game has had problems for a while. But the more players coming in the more feedback on these issues we get.
This is called Karma. This is what inevitably happens to businesses that don't listen to customer feedback. WoW players complaints have gone unanswered for years, and this is the result. Potential new customers stay away. Sucks for the loyal existing customers, but it is what it is.
So true I literally came back from a pretty long break on Friday and while leveling a did a dungeon, the one where you fly around to the diff spots I don’t know the name but I didn’t have my dragon flying yet and instead of them explaining that I could use the fp I was called “a useless waste of ducking time” and booted. People are ridiculous it was a reg dungeon
@@Literofcola77pvers are toxic due to mythic plus
@@oldmoney1022partially but this is also what wow players wanted and asked for. They bought it up.
very true, blizzard execs actually hacked my pc and made me tell new and learning players they're trash and to quit the game, wasn't my fault@@oldmoney1022
As a healer i started in solo shuffle. I am so fkn bad but solo shuffle gave me the confidence and experience to try to join 3s. I wish diminishing returns and party cooldowns were base line in the ui
Blizz would be really smart to incorporate some of the well used PVP ui mods into the interface as a way to assist new players.
Try to start as Dps in solo shuffle you will log out waiting for Que times
Absolutely. DR and cooldown tracking and trading should be clarified much more in the standard UI. Also, all the pvp specific tuning and ability changes in different modes. You have to keep up with current patch notes and all that just to have a slight clue what is happening
I WANNA BE LIKE PIKABOO WHEN I GROW UP TOO!
this game used to feel like a job at times. so much to know, so much to do. i miss it but lets be real, it can be a time sink
in pvp now you have to do nothing , the problem its the soloshuffle q time for dps
takes 2 hours to gear now
its only a time sink if you let it be tbh
game easily has more to know now than it ever has. Which is part of the difficulty in learning; dont stack the right stuff, your damage is pitiful.
unlocking 2 champion in lol its the same time if not more as get honor gear atm
They should just do what GW did and make a PVP mode that you can just make a max level, get full gear and go instantly. Without that WoW is a fucking grind that I dont need.
Venruki is 100% right. Hence the low player count and hardly any new players.
Hes not 100% right, he backs up his argument with biased opinions, but he doesnt criticise his argument. If a new player would go right into pvp, first they would need to pay for a sub. Then they would also need to know what their buttons do. If they would die immediately maybe they would quit the game right away. Evrryone I know dont play wow because of the subscription fee. Not about anything else. Wow is about being rewarding in order to keep players satisfied and in order to keep them in the game. To keep paying sub
@@Vikwak If you can't afford 15$ a month then you shouldn't be playing video games. You need to manage your finances better and get your life back on track. WoW has saved me money by playing it. I spend hundreds of hours on a game thats 15$ a month compared to buying a game for 70$ and beating it in a week.
@@gansta432 Exactly this. 15 a month is $60 in 4 months, which is equal to buying 3 new games per year. It's one of the cheapest games to play outside of F2P, as long as you don't fall into microtransactions
He’s wrong lol simple youre taking this from a dude who’s been on Diablo for most of the WoW ssn hasn’t even gotten to 2200 yet. He catering to the toxic shitters who are hard stuck and will just complain instead of get better lol
@@Notmytwin lmao "toxic shitters"
I played through all of season 1 of dragonflight - I'm a very competitive person but no matter how hard I tried to get into PVP I just couldn't convince myself to devote all of the time needed to figure out what the actual fuck is going on lol.
Its literally just repetition lmao. Play the game and even remotely pay attention and you’ll figure it out. Everyones of the mindset these days of “well why cant they just hold my hand THE ENTIRE TIME so I dont have to do anything myself”. Long gone are the days where looking something up was the FUN part of playing games like WoW. Now its “boohoo I have to use my brain”
@@melani8598lowkey tho you right 🤣
I don't see how this is different from other games.
No, its not boohoo I have to use my brain. Its I have multiple jobs working 50-60 hours per week and I don't have time to dedicate to making a fully fleshed out and prepared character for end game content or at least the time to dedicate to stick to the curve of the player base that has lots of free time...the least I can get is a mode where everyone is balanced so skill Is the only determining factor in an objective based game mode. No, I join and there's many fully decked out players erasing all of the unprepared characters(skill means very little here) all the time and its overwhelming, discouraging, and boring to say the least. If Bliz wants a more fleshed out community as opposed to elites and average joes primarily than they have to stream line and balance. Not prioritizing our money, but really considering our time spent and our experience quality.
@@jixer1495 It takes 5 hours to get a character basically max geared if you queue some 2s/3s. Enormous amounts of free time is not necessary. Time taken to actually get good at the game is not a chore. It is the actual basic content of the game.
4:35 I'm sorry but this was advanced level cope. Talking about monitor settings, desk position, graphics settings, disabling vsync, and 90% of what you mentioned is for every game you're playing on PC including WoW, not just FPS games.
In fact half of what you said applies to anyone who just uses a computer every day and decides to optimize their experience.
WoW is the only game I have played in history that requires me to install 3rd party software to make the game playable.
It's honestly one of the reasons I am hesitant to reinstall the game when a new xpac drops, because I think of how tedious and annoying installing or updating addons is going to be.
WoW is also the only game where I'm required to pay $15 a month just to log in, whereas most other popular multiplayer games are literally free with cosmetic shop. (WoW has both somehow)
Aim Labs is the only relevant comparable point, and I personally don't use it anymore because playing the actual game will ultimately be better practice anyway.
It's not a requirement at all, whereas addons in WoW is absolutely 100% a requirement.
Venruki was right here brother even though I love your content and you're the goat.
I might watch the occasional video, but I'm not playing the game for the main reasons he mentioned.
Saying "you wouldn't get 2 kills in cs:go" isn't analogous because that's due to a lack of skill, not a lack of completing the time gated tasks to be competitively viable.
Imagine if your gun did 30% less damage than the enemy team because they played more last month. The game would die in a week. People outside the WoW community don't put up with that shit. Also imagine this 30% debuff ON TOP of there being a skill gap, and that's WoW arena for new players.
Every human recreation that has withstood the test of time has a skill gap, but WoW specifically requires you to grind before your skill even becomes a relevant variable.
You're the best rogue of all time besides maybe Reckful, and I would 100% beat you every single time if I'm in full conquest + embellishments and you're in random blues you got from leveling.
That's not skill, and it's not the idea of fun to most people trying to get into the game.
his brain is so assimilated that he can only see the world with this POV,like a matrix screensaver.
imagine writing an essay in a youtube comment section no one is going to read this shit. shut up bro
Not only too complicated for new player. Even for veterans. Like seriously there is so much nonsens in this game. Billions of mounts, pets, achivements, items, rep, whatever. Also too many abilities. It's blown up. And a lot of good abilities don't exist anymore. Every class can also do everything for many addons now. Knockbacks, kicks, stuns, spints, jumps, it's just too much.
Mounts/Pets/Achievements and Rep have absolutely nothing to do with the topic of discussion. None of these have any impact on your actual gameplay. Mounts/Pets are miscellaneous and are just collectibles. Achievements are also just another thing for you to go do if you have nothing to go do. Rep hasnt been relevant for a very long time, it has nothing necessary unless you want collectibles/recipes. The game is very plug and play right now. Make your character 1-60 is irrelevant. 60-70 do your campaign. You’re now at end game and gearing is absurdly easy. The only part it gets confusing are the actual mechanics of the game and class abilities. Rep is account shared through all your toons same with mounts pets and achievements.
played wow from vanilla to cata, got glad in cata have played tens of thousands of arena games. i came back for dragonflight and played a couple games of solo shuffle before deciding i cba learning 400 new leap, dash, damage, healing, teleport, and wall cooldowns every single class has now. ill just raid log
Something I told a friend who stuck to 2v2 rated and didnt try much of Solo Shuffle was games are usually 4-2, 2-4 or 3-3 for dps while for healers its usually 6-0 or 0-6. DPS are playing a game of figuring out who the weakest player is on the match while healers are competing directly with the enemy healer, as a DPS you're usually trying to scrap a win in one of the 3 rounds with the worst player to go positive while a skill gap between both healers means the best healer will roll the enemy healer 6-0.
You end up playing 6 rounds having a net positive or negative or 1 game if you did not go even and then you're back to waiting for another 40 minutes.
I think the easiest solution would be enabling 2v2 with 4 DPS players if there's no healers queueing up, 2v2 is a degenerate bracket but it sure beats alt tabbing for 40 minutes then getting into a game and you're also complete zoned out because you took a very long break from your last game and need to warm up again to play your best.
They need to give new players a pre arena obstacle crash course or tutorial where it puts you into a arena with bots and it teaches you basic information such as CC chains using defensives.
ah yes, make it easier.
yeah thats the whole point...so more people can actually start arena and not dive head first into the hardest pvp game with 0 guidance and have to look up a million guides to be able to even play.@@WhyDidYouChange
@@WhyDidYouChange People like you are exactly why the game is DYING. You gatekeep the community, belittling new players instead of helping them. And then you turn around and wonder why your solo shuffle queues are upwards of 2 hours. You do know that not everyone else has played WoW for the last 20 years and memorized every ability and interaction, right? As if teaching new players the basics and fundamentals of the game is going to impact you in any way whatsoever.
@@JonezBBQ Whats so bad about learning the game the same way we did? Is it the drop of average intelligent quotia? Attention span? Or maybe, majority of players spent 10+ years learning, and are still learning new things, so it would be better to spoonfeed the experience to new players, rather than have them wander and fish for 4 hours straight, like we used to do? No matter how thin you cook a pancake, there's still two sides
@@WhyDidYouChangebrain dead take
For 3v3 you might not need all those addons if you have voice coms and a vocal team, but you need most of them.... And then for shuffle you need Sarena and the omni combo for sure... and the healer cc alert...
If you think you dont its because you forgot what its like to play at those levels... and while top players know what to look for and dont need so many addons, the same cannot be said of the casual players.
I started WoW this year, if you have the right friends helping it’s really not that hard to start learning.
what do you main?
I started this year too and you dont even need to friends. Getting gear is so easy.
whats you 2v2 arena rating ? what class are u playin ? im playing wow since start with some gaps for some time breaks. and stil lcant say im a monster at pvp. im playing sub rogue now on WOTLK. you need about few years to get good at pvp. at least you are not playing 100 arena matches every day at least for a 100 days. PVE is for dummies in wow. dont compare it to arena ). its deferent world.
@@LegitOoter the game isnt balanced around 2v2.
I was using Omnicd in M+ but it broke when i started playing pvp. It makes it hard AF but i also now know the sound of a lot of abilities. i wish it would just work but it isn't terrible
Honestly another huge improvement to soloque in my opinion is PLEASE add RBGs solo que too, that rated ladder has also been corrupted by the same arena disease of exclusive group ques who single out everyone else and obliterate the competition, it’s becoming less and less fun if you don’t have gladiators helping carry your group. Solo que needs to solve many problems but I feel it also needs to expand past its boundaries if it is expected to have more potential in its longevity, give us RBG solo ques!
ayo 👀
We come from the future, solo queue rbg’s will be a thing
XD ikr, Dude I was happy af they announced that, def gonna be an improvement to the PvP community@@Th3_a_g4m3
I think the CS comp is great to show the difference. I stopped playing WoW and jumped on CS and the difference of the learning curve is way different. If you get a Smurf in CS, yeah you’ll have a bad time, but that doesn’t happen that often. The amount of things to know in WoW to be good at PVP is 1,000 times more. Unless 1200 is your goal in 3s.
Try to strive for Faceit lvl 10. You'll think differently
@@Boss-ot1iy faceit lvl 10 isnt all that difficult
@dyner2369 Lmao. You definitely don't know rankings then wow kid. Faceit 10 is right below fpl
@@Boss-ot1iy if you think 2k elo is "right below fpl", then you're just delulu
@dyner2369 it's literally right below it lol. Watch Simple against other faceit 10 players and he's in fpl. You'd know this shit if you actually played the game or even kept up with it shitter
Its really easy to make friends if youre a chill person. When i came back after a 12 yr break, i knew one person. Now i have a friends list of 75 with legit people who are 1400 all the way to 2.8k exp . LFG was new for me (quit in mop s1) and I loved it
Pika it’s 100% normal to have a lot of Addons even at low rating. I played without Addons when I first got into arena a couple years ago but then I saw some TH-cam videos because I wanted to get past 1500 and they all say to get Addons. There’s so much that goes into retail WoW. The biggest problem with the game in my opinion is that you can’t tell what’s going on. There so many buttons and abilities and passives in the game and it’s impossible to know what’s happening unless you’ve played the game for a long time and you have Addons.
i get 1800 no problem with just bigdebuffs
@@rahundsigmawell 1.8 is nothing
And now in shuffle times its even easier to Hit 1.8 just to olay PvE in the lobby
I always played alone even before shuffle
And See mate And enemie cooldowns i want.
Increased my rating from Stuck 2200 to glad
Its a huge difference
@evoly9765 what addons do you use? Are they called 'see mate' and 'enemy cooldowns'? Ima check em out
also the issue with wow is that "low rating" means nothing sometimes,you will go against +++ teams gettting boosted/RMT....
this is the elephant in the room that he ofc wont address...
One of the saddest things that ever happened to me in wow was: I got my wife to play an evoker. We queued the first week the class was out (in DF prepatch), I was excited for her to try it. It was a heroic random queue for uldaman. And the pug was such an asshole to her, said she "shouldn't be queuing heroic without knowing her class", she never played again. Again, this was a heroic lfg..where on earth else would she learn prevoker if not in a dungeon >_
Similar thing happened to my wife. I’m sorry to hear that. Wow community is so toxic to new players.
this is why most of my friends quit too.
@@baro6447 =( sad. I play high-ish keys myself and I try my best to help people in a meaningful /constructive way without being mean. I am sorry that your friends left because of the toxicity.
Well… why didn’t you que for a normal dungeon first😭😭
@@datemike1184 agreed. Should’ve had her heal normal dungeons atleast for a few days and get gear before trying a heroic
I haven't pvp'd for a long time but always enjoyed the gear grind and bg stuff, which exposes you to many of the classes/abilities you'll be dealing with in Arena.
i hope you do more react content. you are a smart charismatic guy, you are made for this
pro wow player turned react andy? idk man
@@Haonnnafter 1 reaction he's a react andy? Grow up
He does analyze and communicate everything way way better than anyone else in the community for sure. With humor too. Dudes really the goat of wow
@@bubsenseijebe2993 eh, xar is right there
React is the meta
Interesting to hear Pika's understanding (or lack of) regarding other video games. If you have never played ranked in League and then play it... you'll end up in games with 'icon clickers' and children - you WILL win 50% of your games. The same cannot be said for WoW
I tried start with leauge. Got flamed for being this Bad in 3 Games in a row and quit after. Its Not ez to start with lol today
I quit league ranked season 1 because I saw their bullshit MMR system right away. They are not afraid to put you with absolute new players to tank you're MMR to keep you in that state of flux so you keep coming back, or you just quit
Got a shit ton of time in league and my friends tried to start it recently. It's super toxic because to level to ranked you will meet so many smurfs that shit talk you after not giving you a single chance cus they just know spacing
@@mio7452 ye but they need to wait 3 month to level and 1 month to gear 3 month learning other characters, to be the same toxic shit as wow, they went to the Game took a look and then quit, as for wow You have to spend all that time and then quit cuz, queue to long, solo shuffle so toxic, bg is full of premade overgeared.! And You getting oneshotted Even with all the gear from bg, and let me tell You, not being able to play the Game till your fully gear is a fuking pain.!! SO yes a good intelligent person Will always choose to play any other Game that let You play with your friend Even if they have a long time in that Game already, cuz those types of Game is not base on gear or grinding, and in wow while You farm you get demolish while doing so.! By some premade bully overgeared farming You at the cementary.
you will also end up in games with literal bots on you team that dont press buttons meaning you will have to 4v5 while in a rank where the 3 other people on your team also dont really know what they are doing, on top of that in order to play ranked you have to get to level 30 first if you play the draft mode or now quickplay mode they dont care about MMR nearly as much and as a brand new player you could get matched up against someone that is in diamond, for example the 2023 world champs like 2 weeks after winning worlds played a normals game with the champs they were planning to get their skins on, since riot give out team skins if you win worlds, the other team in their normals game not a single player was above the rank of plat
I started wow in shadowlands for the first time ever. The learning curve was Insane and PvE was so boring but shitting on someone in PvP was sick. I played hunter at first until I kept getting shit on from rogues, then I found pika and palumor and learned as much as I could and then found a mage and we became good friends using voice and after months of grinding and learning we hit 1950 in 2s and it was the most amazing feeling. Then I went to hit 1950 on my hunter, a warrior, mage, and feral. But none of my IRL friends want to put in any time to even level let along grind and learn pvp. It’s a real shame. Shouldn’t have to be forced to jump through so many hoops to just pvp. I hope solo ques pop, and I’m down as fuck for no addons
That is good progress, well done.
This was my fav vid of yours that I've seen, I love hearing your takes and just listening almost podcast style about the state of the game from your pov.
46:15 the difference is most of the buttons are pointless to click/are clicked in very particular scenarios (you go aoe? press this, you go single? press that).
while a lot of the spells they removed were quite fun and uniformly somehow useful
While I 100% agree with counterstrike and how you wouldn't be able to even get a kill, your at least still playing the game mode you want to play. IN wow, theres hour supon hours of content you are forced to play before even having the option to play arenas. AND THEN theres barriers like gear and teammates. Big difference.
yeah he completely missed the point there and was trying to compare his experience as a professional player to what it would take to be a professional in an FPS. I don't think he was thinking about the casual Andy there.
Well if you wanna play comp, you gotta hit a certain level in cs and then you gotta WIN 10 games to even get your placement. So if you wanna play comp in cs then you're not able to just get on it and play the mode you wanna play
I think PvP gearing is better than ever and honor gear being only 13 ilvl behind conquest gear makes PvP much more accessible
They should just give people the option to opt into triple dps mirrors in solo shuffle. That might help with lowering the waiting times and make it optional for people that always wanna play with healers.
I always loved playing feral, but i just had to give it up i mean rake, rip, swarm, feral frenzy, blood talon, brutal slash, some patches even moonfire i probably forgot something. It so much maintenance and the dots have so short duration because you need to use circle of life and death so all you do is reapply dots... not to mention classes can dispel them, you need to sit bear if someone even looks your way.
They gutted pretty much all classes, made so many classes similar that when you geared up your char and played some the lack of soul makes you wanne play something else and you realise that balance druid is just a differently themed shadow priest or aff lock.
Destro lock feels almost exactly the same as frost mage.
I don't know what it is but somewere along the way the identity of the classes got lost. Every class is a generator/spender class now. Used to be just rogue, feral druid and maybe warlock with soulshards if you will.
With the original release there was a lot of stuff to learn but also lots of content to enjoy and fewer changes to classes. Compare that with today and the improvements/nerfs/mechanic changes etc that happen constantly, and instead of incremental improvements that can be worked on over time, there are sweeping alterations that don't allow for any anything other than devoting more time to stay current and competitive. Throw in all the add-ons and the game is no longer for the casual gamer logging on for an hour or so every so often. I remember the satisfaction I used to get from getting gear that gave me just an incremental tiny improvement. Now nothing you play for is meaningful because its all rapidly transient and making any effort is pointless because it will be worthless very quickly. It was nice knowing I could do something over time that would eventually be meaningful and help me in other parts of the game for a while. Even grinding for something was okay because the reward would be good for a while at least. Anyway - the game isn't going back there so at least I have some good memories LOL.
Im a new player myself, bought the game about 6 months ago and coming from guild wars all I can say is that WoW comunity is... just weird. How can someone love and hate a game so much at the same time? It is a great game but some content creators really need to chill, Im so tired of tier list and stuff like that. Just play what its fun for you unless you are a WFR raider 😂
This is huge actually, thanks for your perspective. I very, very much agree. So much rage for a video game, yet such a dedicated following. For an optional video game. People need to remember it’s fun, and act like it, or they need to quit! It’s like they are stuck
We had a 55 y/o guy who mainly played New World and Mortal Online 2 come join a few of us on WoW SoD, this was his first time ever playing WoW in general. He would get on youtube and watch WoW videos on how to play and he was getting mad flustered on how many addons he was told he needs and was super confused on how to set it all up. Myself and a few others told him to ignore that crap, gave him 3 addons that would give him some QoL and showed him how to set it up and then told him to play the game how he wanted to. Dude is now enjoying the piss out of the game and can't get him off it.
Moral of the story, just play the game. It's really good, don't mind the people who tell you what you need to do. Do what you want to do and I assure you, you'll enjoy it.
I really enjoyed playing WoW, I’ve played since release of villa, quit in cata and started playing again about a month into DF.
While totally different than what I was used to playing, the strategic game play of PvP was fun getting back into.
I quit again at start of 10.1. There’s a laundry list of issues with the game, but having so many fotm rerollers is tiresome, especially when you wait 45minutes for a queue to pop. I used to complain how long the grind was to level and gear a toon, but I miss that now. The ability to go from 1 to max level and be fully geared in a week made fotm rerollers way to easy.
Also I was frustrated with the embellished gear bullshit. I tried for two weeks to figure out how to get the embellished gear, and for some classes it’s essentially mandatory.
Also wayyyy to much going on with cc and interrupts, I wish they just released a game like wotlk but with solo shuffle.
Remember when holy pallys had ice block and mages had ice block? Now hunters have a bubble essentially, same with rogues, resto seuids (tranq), dhs with the flying bullshit, shamans with burrow, and I’m sure I’m missing a few..
Oh well, I doubt I’ll play again but we’ll see.
Idk man but he explained his view of it so well
They need to have a permanent arena tourney server with max lvl and good gear
Agreed. Maybe you need a max level character to access it or something, but an accessible tourney realm would make PvP so much more... Accessible.
supatease has great ideas around this topic.
@@Sebastianmol7 they use to have one back in the day. It was legit idk what happened.
They literally dont, you can ready your character for pvp in less than 24h playtime, and this is an rpg afterall. Stop propagating instant gradification! For fuck sake gearing is so fast in dragonflight that i for the first time have like 5x same class and i work full time
@@Undertaker257 not everyone plays dragon flight. So gear a char on bc in 24hr. Highly doubtful
I started in March. I had played in Cata, MoP and Legion but I stopped playing till this March. I had never done proper arena pvp before though. I still don't know how to optimize omnibar or how to setup tellmewhen but gearing I figured out. Got full conquest for multiple chars and highest elo I got was 1900. I feel like a bit more playing and I'll get to 23-2400 or something. Once I figured it out it became really fun. (OH btw, I CANNOT figure out how to play rogue. I tried so hard I played so many games but it's so hard to keep track of who to kidney, cheap shot, gouge, blind and stuff...)
i think the issue that ven is talking about is the accessibility to end game content - at this point in the game there is so much to learn and understand before u can even think about getting into a match, let alone the actual leveling process and gearing process and finding optimal builds based on comps and understanding comps… any player can launch valo and get plat - diamond within probably a few months if they dedicated their time, whereas wow the barrier to entry is much higher, especially if you don’t have friends who also play the game. they need to maybe dumb it down a bit and get a solid foundation so that the game is much more accessible to new players and to grow their player base
I laughed waaaay to hard at that im a professional gamer and half asian LMAO
You hit it Pika I am 44 years old and have been playing wow since Wotlk. I go to work 12 hrs a day and come home and try to play I don’t want it to be like a second job so I play casual plus I have come to terms that I won’t ever be at the top b/c my awareness and reactions r not what they used to be. So I have went back to play Wotlk a slower pace more laid back. Now my kid said she does not like classic b/c it is to slow so she likes retail so they r to me headed in the right direction for the younger generation but they need to keep working to crack down on the toxic/jerks/trolls or they will run them off.
The solo format is the future of wow arena, but not nessecarily through shuffle.
I've been promoting a groupmaking system based off the 2v2 and 3v3 bracket that would add to or replace LFG. Instead of listing a group and have anyone sign up, you would mark yourself as your preferred spec and your preferred teammates' spec. For example, I main surv hunt and enjoy mostly jungle and thug and will therefore search for ferals, sub rogues and disc/holy priests, which means if there is a feral/sub rogue and a disc/holy that has marked surv hunt + feral/sub rogue then the game would put us together in a party and let us queue 3s as if we just formed a group through LFG.
So far I honestly think this is as close to a flawless groupmaking system as we can get. I'll happily answer any questions about this idea
i think its ok to make damaging/healing easier in pvp is because theres so much shit going on, its ok to have the ez mode damage build the one to use in pvp just to help people pay attention to whats going on beside whats happening with their character
You mean, make boring?
You could basically 'log in and play' during MoP. The amount of people I got to start playing was stupid lol and it was easy for them to learn. now, when I don't play for a patch, I feel like I don't wanna play as there's so much I need to catch up with and do lol i couldnt imagine being a new player.
I agree with so much of what you said man. I wish you could get your points into other of the bigger creators heads. You are so right about the negativity and toxicity. It has long been my opinion that the "old guard" that have direct contact with devs have pushed the game into bad directions over the years, and no willingness to change. I appreciate this video and speaking your truth.
Venruki's point is valid if you're considering that a new player can only enjoy the game if they hit the top ranks of arena PVP. Plenty people can just log in and play and enjoy the game for what it is without competing at the AWC.
I think the real issue with WoW PvP is the amount of CC in the game. If you look at Vanilla most classes didn't have spammable CC and not a lot of classes had stuns. But with each expansion came more CCs and more stuns to the point where if a meta comp was good enough you literally couldn't even play the game, and pretty much every class now has spammable CC/chain CC ability. Look at teams like TSG or RMP in Wrath - TSG's comp was built off a burst opening that almost no one could survive as the healer literally couldn't cast a single spell if done right. RMP comp is literally a comp built around CC - where they win by not letting the other team play and that's been the best comp in the game since I could remember (haven't seriously PvP'd since wrath so idk what the best comps are these days). Its one of the more asinine concepts I've ever seen a game incorporate. Take most of the CC out of the game and let people play the game in PvP and it'd be light years more fun.
Sitting in 1600 with BiS for content and currency is what ruins pvp.
But bans in twitch chat when asked why
To be decent at WOW PvP you do have to do everything Venruki said and get some years of practice. Good PvPers take for grated all the knowledge they know about the game such as it's classes, specs, comps exedra. To be good at an FPS or MOBA, play a couple of months if even that and you are good to go! Pikas comparison of what you have to do to be pro at an FPS is the equivalent of what you need to do to not be horrible at WOW PvP. So not horrible vs pro, but same amount of work, ruffly. :P
If you don't want to be horrible at any fps game, you have to put years, lol. Fps games are far more complex than wow. So many people hit 2100 in arena. Good luck hitting faceit 10 in cs, let alone fpl. Which is r1 in wow. The best players in the world play fps games and not wow
@@Boss-ot1iy ?? for fps games you only need to practice your aim and get good game sense to be good at it. To be good at WoW you need to do a ton of research about the game to learn how to get the best gear, best ruins, best stats which can take hours to understand or even days since it just mind boggles you, then you need to grind gear which may take months to get, then you need to install 4387929532 addons which may actually take days or even weeks to get used to those addons since theres just a bunch of stuff on your screen which you don't even understand, then you need to know every single class ability in the game, every single class debuff/buff so that youre able to pvp, just so that when you go into arena you don't get one shotted. And youre telling me FPS games are more complex than WoW? LOOOL, the only people who play WoW are the people who have been playing for years, it takes years to get good at wow, it takes months to get good at an fps game. You also have to learn what every ability does and how theres 20 buttons on your screen that you have to press as well
@@SamLewis18agreed
Either way, the barrier to entry for WoW competitive PvP is much bigger than most other games. I think that's pretty clear.
when i started playing wow arena by far the hardest part was reading my ui + addons, and knowing enemy spells and capabilities. nothing else compares to the learrning curve of that
It's not really an issue of it being complicated gameplay wise, it's just not straight forward enough to simply play the game so the barrier to entry is incredibly high.
Pika mentions Counter-strike, and how a new player wouldn't get a kill because it's complicated like WoW, which is true, but the difference from WoW is the fact that a new player immediately has a chance to at least *try*, you simply download the game, which is free, and press the competitive button, it's as simple as that.
In WoW's case if you want to try competitive PVP, like Venruki said, you have to buy the game, pay a subscription, make a character, level that character, build that characters talents, gear that character, and then find players to play with or wait in solo shuffle for 30 minutes, as well as understand add-ons.
You can see the issue here for new players.
No, csgo also has requirements to play competitive. It's less time required, but what would someone expect of an MMO? Nobody picking up WoW or any other MMO on planet earth is thinking "Hmm i want this mmo, i hope i can play ranked pvp the second i download it"
People have incredibly fake expectations of what they THINK new players feel, when people like Ven haven't spoken to any real number of "new" players on the topic. This game handholds you all the way to current content, something nearly no other MMO if even any other MMO does.
WoW isn't complicated or too complex. We were all new at some point and worked our way from there. New players will always go through the same thing because it's all new to them!
Also as someone with thousands of CSGO under the belt. It's far more difficult to get "good" at cs than it is WoW pvp. We talk about "what is all of this" in terms of addons, but don't mention that the addons literally take away 90% of the complexity 🤣 the game plays itself!
I think gear difference in pvp is a big stopper for most people. I would jump on a healer an Q right now if I didn't have to grind out gear for the next 2 weeks.
its crazy to me that it used to be almost 1000% harder back in slands
Lmao it takes 2 days of bgs and a little gold to get 447 ilvl in arena. Get good kid.
@@jaycooney405 man not this vid mentioning how negative the wow playerbase is and you typing this shit out. do better
Two weeks? You can grind a full set of blue honor gear and be ilvl 434 in a day.
Bruh, it used to be months
Has any streamer talked about the possibility of making solo shuffle only being dps if no healers are online to reduce que times? However, when two healers are available, the game prioritizes having the 2dps and 1 healer teams.
Its more that pvp is complicated to become competitive. Wow is a pve game first and is pretty casual friendly in this regard.
This is true for most games that are PVE focused, its usually not super easy to get into the pvp niche of it
So many good points made by Pika in this vid. Normal people aren’t min maxing with all these addons and rotation stuff and still get 95% of their performance.
The negative stigma and downers around the game are the main reason that new people aren’t playing.
Also never considered how much I put into my fps gaming when I do that (setup, peripherals, settings, etc.). Something which people don’t bring up at all is that you probably need to play for 20-30 hours in any of these games to unlock ranked which is the “main mode”. Easily could level and gear a character in less than 10h in WoW.
Pika's wrong in this one. When he mentions peripherals, arm placement, etc., it is just over the top. All you need to touch and enjoy an fps game is a mouse and keeb which don't even need to be good ones. As fir 10 hours to level and gear a character? Lmao. No new player is even leveling to 70 in 10 hours man. Wow is just harsh to new players just as other games of the genre.
You have to already be very good to get 95% of your performance in any aspect of the game without addons
@@empressqiyanaa6196 yep most people get 80%....
I have been playing wow for more years than I want to mention and I agree.. noobs come on thinking it will be a breeze and they never really gear up before they give up. All the pros even ven himself make it seem easy.. I'm a pvper only so let me say it is not easy and i seldom do arenas.. I love bg's and world pvp. it's a struggle to gear.. didn't used to be.. I dislike the direction pvp has gone, and I don't want to do pve.. Ven has a grip on how the average player feels. Pika I think your so beyond the average player you don't see it.
Its the keybinds and the fractional reaction time - thats what kills it. if you dont have proper keybinds that flow youre gunna be .5 seconds behind and in DF thats a matter of a life bar sometimes depending on procs
The ironic thing is: that all that stuff in the Raids and Dungeons that increases the complexity over the addons depends on the fact that DBM had such an massive influence on the gameplay as it appears over the time that Blizz was forced to creates more complex Dungeons and Raids what on the other hand means that u need the AddOn more then before and its all a circle of hell. For me personally, i would also prefer to increase the UI Options from Blizz themself and ban all those addons like in FF14. For me PvP in some points are totally ridiculous, i'm able to track f*cking everything, all CD's of the enemys, the addons tell me when someones pop up in my back and even if i didn't notice it personally i'm able to counter everything while i still showing the enemy my back. I can track the whole Enemy Suqad on the BG and where their going, Experience and strategies in the game are invariably subordinated to the AddOns and that is a great pity.
To help healers, blizzard should impliment something that tells DPS when it was their fault haha.
Something pops on screen "you died with wall".... "you LOS'd your healer while they were CC'd"... "dont grief the healer, you know what you did"
As a returning arena player who brought a bunch of new friends to WoW with them, Ven is absolutely right.
The difference is that in other games you don't have to be accepted into a group to play competitive team content. You can queue as a group or you can queue into a group as an individual. To play competitive group content in WoW you have to "apply" to a group and the leader inspects your gear score and your pvp rating and then accepts or denies you. That is a WoW thing. I have played Overwatch and Apex at a Masters level and solo queued many nights that my friends weren't on or we didn't have a full team and don't have to apply to a group in order to play games. Most people would never get into an fps game if they couldn't queue solo and had to apply to a group and the group could see their KD and win percentage. There's absolutely no shot. I play WoW now and, as a new player, I have a 420 iLvl gear score and am doing high key mythics and raiding and I'm doing no worse than other players in my group who have been playing WoW for 15 years. But if it weren't for my brother who is 2000+ pvp rating and KSM in every season getting me into these groups, I'd never have a chance to do anything in WoW and that's a 100% fact. I'd never have gotten the opportunity to gear up and do the content if I wasn't tagging along with the person doing the highest dps in the instance. No way in hell.
"KSM in every season getting me into these groups, I'd never have a chance to do anything in WoW and that's a 100% fact."
not really,you just need to start from +5 on all dungeons,then move up 1 mythic on everything,
will take 10 times longer than getting boosted tho....
@@ppsarrakis That is literally my point. There is no version of reality where I want to regular dungeons and then progress to a 1 key then a 2 key etc for all content just to be able to do content that doesn't make me fall asleep. I turned level 70 and then queued into a 11 key as my first WoW dungeon with a 393 iLvl. We timed it. I was doing on average the same dps as everyone else. I'm not "boosted" either. I pay attention while my brother tells me the mechanics, I do them, I press my buttons.
Never seen you before, but I just came back to wow a week ago after switching from classic to give it try. Been years since I've played wow classic reeled me in and retail has kept me so far. You have some really good takes. I 100% agree. Make the solo shuffle pop! everything else is secondary. Some people just wanna get on and play
So I know what attracted me to playing WoW for the first time in 2005 watching my college dorm mate fly around Azeroth on a flight path was the sheer size and scale of the game; it is MASSIVE. People who start playing WoW become completely immersed in the complexity of it all and can't wait to explore everything. Looking towards playing at the end game is actually not a high priority for new players I imagine.
That’s true. The first time I played, I spent months leveling and just discovering the massive world (it wasn’t even back then when leveling would take a lot of time, i just didn’t care about reaching endgame, exploring the areas and just walking around, sometimes talking to NPCs and doing quests was so fun)
@@empressqiyanaa6196 The true magic of WoW is the entire world and all the people you meet along the way. The end game is actually just the cherry on the cake.
You have to get hooked on WoW and then SERIOUSLY COMMIT to arenas for it to even start being compelling. Everybody who’s not deeply invested will invariably just bounce off of PvP because you spend so much time just getting totally annihilated for unknown reasons, even at low CR, before you start to see patterns in what’s going on.
@@davew2040x i think also, a good portion of people that are willing to tolerate that experience and make it out the other side are aso returning players, not new. i quit(ish) in wod and im currently in the position youve described, but the only reason i stick around to actually learn it is because ive done it before and felt the reward.
How to resolve much of this complexity: transform all continuous damage (dots) into singular types, that is, Vampiric + Unstable would be a DOT SHADOW (stackavel or something along those lines, becoming a single stack, so I don't need to know that the DOT Vampiric is from Priest and Unstable is from Lock). Another thing is to do the same thing with CC's, if I give a rogue STUN, it's the same thing as a pala stun, as it's the same thing as a warrior stun, etc... This way it's easy to know when you're stunned regardless of the class and ease of knowing which skills besides DR's.
"Ah, but the pala stun is magical and the rogue stun is physical, you can't dispel it...", fuck it, it does 2 different stuns, one magical and one physical. good!
Also i love Arcane Mage, but I just get clobbered in arenas because I'm trying to do differential equations while the DH and War are finishing their addition tables and going out to recess. Fun spec though.
Biggest problem with WoW PvP is that many animations are not clear enough. So per example,many people especially casuals don't know a stun happened unless the addon tells them. All people can understand is healthbars when they watch wow, they have no clue who's doing what unlike FPS per example.
Lol, when I was a kid, we didn’t have such many vids on TH-cam or this amount of tutorials on internet.
And we played WOW, we were learning it day by day. We were enjoying levelling and were really surprised by end-game content. We discovered key bindings, macros, addons and the other on our own, no one told us we have such options. We didn’t have any centralised repo and downloaded addons manually from different websites. On top of that there was no localisation and game itself was way less newbe friendly (no quest helper, mounts required higher level, no portals, higher cd on hearthstones). And we were enjoying playing game and our discoveries within.
The only solution i see to fix solo queue is adding healer bots that would replace a player, but it's weird in a ranked match and wont happen. Having a matchmaking system that depend on having a player to play something that most people dont like is the issue there.
I think it is very important to understand that for the most part, everything that makes WoW complicated is true of every MMORPG. It is sort of part of what defines that genre, and people know what they are getting into to some extent when they begin playing a game like that. I do think people struggle to want to start games like WoW these days, though. I have played WoW since vanilla and I don't think I could bring myself to begin a new MMORPG very easily. I played New World some and got pretty into it but it is hard for me to stay hooked into them because of the complexity of learning all the new systems in a game like that. Games like Counterstrike, League, Call of Duty etc... they attract a different kind of player. There is certainly some overlap because a lot of people who play WoW also play those games, but a game like WoW is supposed to be complex and the only way to really fix that issue is to dumb down the game (which they have done in the past) and it ultimately creates a less enjoyable experience for their existing/returning customers in order to cater to new customers. I don't know that it is necessarily possible to reduce the complexity of the game enough to actually attract and retain new players that aren't interested in the full scope of what WoW is as a game. It is a strange situation because for the people who already play the game, the complexity is part of what makes the game exciting. But for new players, and particularly younger gamers, it is what keeps them away from the game.
not really,wow is unique on its pvp from all mmos i played and this is how:
wow is the only mmo that pvp gear is skill-farm-gated throught rated-bg-arena, any other mmo you can just Que for BG have your fun farm get farmed and eventually you will max out your pvp gear.
I like Guild Wars 2 system for PvP where everyone is scaled to the same level and gear so you can just jump right into PvP content and do the PvE questing / gearing process if you want to do the PvE content. I don't think it would fit within WoW's systems, but I think an easier access into the multiplayer PvP would significantly help the WoW scene.
Love your take I’m a newer wow player 2 months in and it wasn’t hard to learn but you can’t really compare a fps with a mmo there 2 different animals I played cod and apex semi professionally found the elder scrolls online and fell in love with mmos got to end game and needed more so I looked into guild wars and wow and wow is the best game I have ever played the community is amazing and the game is just fun you can do what ever you want I love it so much and love your view on wow I’m proof that a new player can learn and do good I’ve cleared normal raid im pushing 15 17 keys in mythic haven’t done much pvp but still a great game and it’s not that hard to learn if you want to
As a mid-high level fighting game player, I can say that we have this discussion in the community all the time. I see a lot of similarity with wow arena where it's very intimidating for new player. I think you are right about instant gratification cause most newer fighting game game player are gonna take a lot of games before their first win so they just quit. I also find a lot of people that think fps and moba are more accessible when they really aren't. I think the only reason it is is because you can play with multiple friends so lost feels not as bad. Anyways, love you insight since it looks very similar too my view of fighting game. Keep up the content
Holy cow, totally underselling how much stuff is going on at a given time in an arena match. That's like wayne gretzky saying "I don't know...hockey's not that hard, just score hundreds of goals"
I think Pika is not understanding the point Venruki made. Venruki isn't comparing the complexity and difficulty of wow vs other games. What Venruki is saying is that just getting properly setup (character, gear, add-ons) takes an eternity in wow. And in other games, all you do is press play and start actually playing.
Took a five year or so break from wow for Apex and i dove headfirst into DPI mice and mouse pads lol… I think part of what I like about games is finding that sweet spot with add-ons or peripherals. I definitely feel like this can be a barrier for some people though. That’s why there’s console. lol.😊
41:33 this is why we need add-ons or to integrate their functionality in the game, like clique, and to some extend just for CDs you can take everything else away, anything else that it's not cosmetic or adds non-combat functionality i mean and i am probably fine for the most part but add-ons are not really the main issue right now
I stared wow at the end of shadowlands and didn’t play much and decided to come back and try at 10.1 and just hit 1800 in 2’s playing disc priest after 3 weeks it’s definitely a little daunting but I did it with 3 addons which were gladius a atonement weak aura and sexy map😂
😂👍
I think the most fun I ever had in WoW was Survival Hunter in Cata. The DoTs, the Procs, the traps and all the other choices. It always felt like I was trying to make sure the right things were going on, and then Explosive Shot or Kill Shot procs had me in MOAR DAMAAGE mode.
Blizzards employees are a bunch a clowns now, more worried about making a baby day care in game then improving solo shuffle
I wanna play heqler in soloQ, I just dont want everything that comes with that. Like getting blamed for everything, misusing cooldowns, letting people down, the learning curve, getting the pvp stats gear when I already farmed pve gear, all the cc chains, and other stuff I cant think off right now. The learning curve is just way higher for healers sorry, just make healing easier/ and targetting as well.
Ngl, i’ve been mythic raiding and doing high m+ for a while and it’s not just arcane mage and shadow priest. If you check the most min maxed rotations for 90% of the specs, it’s impossible that you understand what’s going on on the first look, or second, or third…
This video hits so hard. I tried to get so many friends to try to play wow to play arena with me. They ALL quit because of how much time it takes to even start playing the game… now I also quit because none of my friends play. I picked up Street Fighter 6. I bought the game, don’t pay a monthly sub, and can play ranked on an equal playing field as everyone else immediately. Wow needs to make arena more accessible or it will die soon.
I disagree with Pika here. He mentioned first time in Apex he got 1 kill in an hour, but how long would it take to get an arena kill from first downloading WoW? It would be days or weeks until you're levelled and geared enough to get there so I think in terms of accessibility Wow is much harder to break in to. Also the amount you have to keep track of in arena is crazy. There is a lot to keep track of in high end fps shooters but WoW is another level with DRs, cooldowns and set ups. Maybe it's because I'm better at fps than arena but even just to get to something easier like KSM would be harder than to get a foothold in an fps imo.
i can understand the comparison of game/video settings in fps vs addons on wow, but the diff in impact of those imo is not even close, sure it will help but you dont need those things to understand what is going on, why you died, etc.
also, most, if not all, fps games have a practice mode. wanna learn flashs and abilities, improve your aim/reaction? you can do this in game easily. how do you practice pvp in wow besides actually playing? but then again, just getting into a match is a pain if you dont have a group of people to play with
fundamentally, wow and mmos in general are way harder than fps, the learning curve between these genres is not even close, so its easier to improve in the latter which motivates you to keep pushing whereas wow pvp can become a frustrating experience really fast
The good thing about CS tho is you can just install the game and queue up. Everyone starts with the same baseline gear and money. Queue time is also quite short. Of course you can also spend tenthousands of hours into the game min maxing everything but for new player and those who got no time for that we have other game modes or silver/gold nova rank.
The humps to get into WoW 3v3 arena are insane. For a new player it takes weeks to level and gear. They know nothing about anything and in WoW the most important skillset is knowledge.
Also not sure but wouldn't 3v3 3xdps solo shuffle be cool? Nowadays any class can heal anyway and it would heavily reduce the q time.
For fps games you really don't need to adjust anything. Your monitor settings translate among all of them, the only thing you need to adjust is mouse sensitivity and you're good to go.
I've been playing wow since vanilla, and I recently had a friend get into wow for the first time. He was insanely overwhelmed and if he didn't have us to walk him through it all he would have quit 100%.
Even if he watched hours worth of youtube videos to figure out addons, spec, gearing + stats, stats, the 30 min shuffle queues and lack of io/arena achieves would prevent him from playing the game.
i just stopped watching when he started about how many settings an fps gamer has to change... lol "vsync" ,not even the slightest comparable.
I played with elvui and weak aura Ui for years until i started to pay attention to high rated arena players not using major ui changes and decided to drop all ui addons except gladius and i have to say was the best decision ive made in wow, now i dont constantly stare at my wa timers and actually learned my rotations on every spec i play, improved my awarenes in arenas alot and now i pay way more attention to team mates and stun dr times cause im not only focusing on weakauras
Very few people know about the communities tab also. Very good place in game to find people to play with.
To be fair you don't "Just play League" or any other MOBAs, those are also super complicated buy ins. But a lot of MOBAs don't have this issue WoW has.
the ui should include:
- sth like threatplates where you can get rid of all the shitty unimportant debuffs/buffs for pvp so you can see if the guy is cheap shotted instead of seeing wound poison stacks
- dr tracker
- cd tracker for your team and enemy
and that's it
The appeal of CS, Valorant, DayZ, etc., etc., is that you can log on fairly quickly, click your mouse and get an immediate response from the game for it. WoW being an MMO, that left click has like 15 per-requisites you gotta complete before it'll do anything of any import. Because MMO's require such a big time investment to get much of anything done, it also requires a huge return on that investment. Like I said earlier, FPS games, Arena Shooters, MOBA's, BR's, etc., etc., they all have a return on the time investment basically the moment you click something, which isn't the case with MMO's. If you don't have a lot of time to play, then it could literally take months to get a return of any substance on the time you invested into that particular character. Unfortunately for WoW, Blizzard hasn't provided much compensation for time spent in their game recently. That's why I've taken up permanent residence in Classic WoW/Season of Discovery because raids even with a bad group only take like 1 and a half hours at most, and there's no such thing as Resilience in Classic PvP making fights take way longer than they should, allowing classes like Druids and Paladins to become absolutely bullshit.
What about moving the majority of PvP to a "PvP Realm" where you log in and you are max level and you get all bis gear and options ect, just like tourny realms and they have 1v1 2v2 3v3 5v5 and rated bgs? then new players can just buy the game and learn the classes and then grind?
its the 37 key binds for a spec and mastering the rotations to be competitive that make it difficult for new players. ive tried to bring friends over to it and they are overwhelmed and get frustrated after a few months then give up.
back in a day there was private server called arena tournament, and it was best experience of wow arena. Expansion was wotlk you hop in getting relentless gear and good to go and play arenas, btw hc pve items was banned so that's made arenas even more enjoyable, because you actually need to do some shit to win, not just run in and go all in; BTW there where active forums where people would make guides
its not JUST the queue times. WoW still had massive issues before solo shuffle even existed. I’m sure a lot of people were like me and had a friend who tried to get them into WoW, my friend begged me to play and it took like a month to even get to the point where I could play PvP with him. And when I did, I lost every game because I didn’t have gear. Then after quitting and starting about 4 or 5 times. I stuck through for about a month to get to level 120 and get conquest geared after days of losing to fully geared 1300s. I finally enjoyed WoW. Whereas I got recommended League one day, played it immediately, was on a level playing field with the people around me, and immediately got hooked for years.
There are some great points that both Pika and Ven mentioned. I have played WoW on and off for 10+ years. What brought me to game was the commercials, with Mr. T, and Verne. It looked fun, but now there doesn’t seem to be much advertisement on the game, like some of the more popular games. Then you finally get a new player to play WoW and you instantly boost them to 70 and get a tutorial on 5 main abilities. Then you complete a tutorial and now choose a spec. Then all of a sudden you get 20 more abilities and have no idea what is good or bad. Oh, then you get Talents and then have to read all these abilities and then possibly get more abilities. Great! Now, you may have some abilities that are set 1-+ and now you ask how you’re going to be hitting + comfortably. Then, you realize most your abilities aren’t keybinded. But you just spent $60 on a game and you just want to play. So, you skip all the other parts of the game that make you “successful” at the game like keybinding, macros, addons, UI, I.e. so, you finally finish the campaign, learn dragon riding and figure out a new set of talent tree for dragon riding and then you hit max level. Let’s start pve or pvp. You need to gear, so you get to join the queue, you join and then majority of the players make fun of the new players, or tell them they don’t know what they’re doing and won’t try and help because they just took in a lot of information just to make it to max level to play the game. This discourages players and if they make it through the grind and the other grinding like professions and dailies. You get to finally queue into the three main goals at max level, raiding, mythic +, and pvp, you face people that are either way out gear you or just deny your applications because you’re not meta or I.O is too low. Now you’ve spent 30-40 hours to just get frustrated. That’s not a great experience for a new player.
As a community, the game isn’t perfect, but no game is, we need to be welcoming, helpful, don’t only post the negatives about the game. Like Pika mentioned. We should talk about the stories that come from playing the game, how it’s helped us, or what brought you to the game and why you still play this game.
But, this game also needs to be easier to play to the average player, whom play maybe 2 hours a day. Since the average player is 31, and the people who would have more play time would under the age of 26.
There is an average of 8 millions players a month and to see that there is only 700 people in the top rankings is mind boggling. Because most of those players are the top competitors that also probably have 3-5 alts that are also in the 2400 ladder. Which means there around probably 200 players that are in the top.
I am sorry for the rant. I believe this is a great game and I do want to see this game get back to what I remember it as a teenager. Thank you for anyone who read this. If you are in this community, we need to do our part to welcome new players. So, we can see it the peak that you remember, and that’s the reason we continue to play this game.
I’ve never really understood the arguemnt for people not having time for wow. If you play wow to get endgame gear and do endgame content then of course you’ll have to grind, what else can you do. Just because some people have more time doesn’t mean they dont sit with shit IO score in the beginning and has a hard time just as anyone else. If you want a casual immersive gameplay and not looking for a more intesive end game then look at classic, wotlk or even the new discovery of seasons.
Char boosting is also not a valid arguement. You are activly making a choice to ignore most of the content and if you decide to skip EVERYTHING else than DF than thats on the player, not the game. (I think the base edition doesn’t even include a boost aswell) The majority probably leveled for a few hours which thought us the basics of the class and spec (even if retail goes a little quick now to max level) and therefore learned the game has to offer.
Most of the problems with people not being able to do end game content are that they are not ready to grind for the challenge and just wanna go ahead and jump straight into it. Name one MMORPG where u can spend 2h a day and be doing somethig similair to +20-25 keys and HC/Early mythic bosses. End game in MMORPGs are not designed to be for casuals rather the player who has more time to spend. There’s a lot to do execpt for endgame stuff that might fit the ordinarie gamer.
The community I can agree is kind off toxic sometimes but most of it can be ignored since the ones being toxic don’t usually know jack shit about what they are talking about. Guilds are probably the eaiset way to find a community for to gear up and be social in since every piece of end game content needs a group of players. There’re definetly more social guilds than progression guilds in retail. And classic is even greater!
I'm trying to do my part in making the game more welcoming. I made an alt and wanted to farm some conquest. Found a rogue who it turns out didn't have any addons installed, soon found out he needed help with bindinds, and macros. Its few days now that I take some time out of my day to help him get his foot in the arena. Im by no means a great player, but I have played on and off for a while and even just offering someone to play with them helps them out a lot. Sometimes you gotta know when to be a sweaty gamer and push, but also when to make choices that will help the community grow.
Healers/support need to have a majority of the party heals/support buttons OR the individual responsibility of supporting yourself needs to matter for yourself first.
If people take avoidable damage and were silenced/disarmed/damage reduced by 95% for 5 seconds, but also this penalty could be avoided/removed if you used a personal CD or self heal, then I guarantee that DPS will be making note of,prioritizing and actively TRYING to avoid taking unavoidable damage OR at least using self cooldown/heals/support abilities to remove that effect which is preventing them from doing damage.
Basically, all avoidable damage needs to have an effect tied to it that reduces damage done by DPS players, causes silence/disarm or ccs you in some way that reduces you damage done so that avoiding damage = doing more damage.