Think of it this way, young children are being groomed to "steal other children" to train them and stifle their emotional intelligence all to serve a corrupt Senate and an outdate/out of touch monastic order of monk knights believing in a pseudo science faith system. -totally not Palaptine or Jar Jar
As a person who sometimes talks like he's trying to get a good grade in therapy, I want to point out how said behavior would probably not result in a good grade in therapy.
I hate that feeling when I stand up too fast and start having vague and ambiguous visions of my future that prompt me to reconsider my life for a few seconds.
That feeling is awesome; I don't have visions though; I just get really light headed. After running the mile in PE, I would sit down for two minutes, then jump up super quick I almost passed out one time (I would run 6 minute miles; not too fast, but exhausting nonetheless)
@@YayaFeiLong There is plenty new under the Sun; just not in an absolute term Personally, I would tire of using a clever line that I took. Might be new to the person hearing it, but not to me
@@PhilipK635 On the other hand the one that bugs me is when a urban fantasy/sci fi show does the episode where the protagonist gets caught in a dream where they're in a mental hospital and the rest of the series has been a delusion. They always try so hard to sell the possibility that it's real, like we're ever gonna buy that.
@@GriffinPilgrimone that bugs me more is when, fandom as a whole or just a random fan, comes up with that idea as a 'theory' and feels really proud and all the other fans just go full yes-men. I have even seen a comment saying that it can be good sometimes.
As soon as you mentioned dreams giving exposition, I immediately thought of Percy Jackson. Every dream he has is either symbolic or just straight up showing what is happening with the enemies. I swear, never once has this pour kid ever dreamt of going to school naked, or magically transforming the gods into gummy worms or something.
I remember they addressed that. "Yeah dreams are usually prophecies, have fun!" I remember he got a good night's sleep once and it was a moment of relief.
@@OmniGundam777you’re right and it isn’t even the only explanation given. In book one Kronos is the one making the link to try and scare, manipulate, or intimidate him. Which isn’t even always on purpose. Book two it’s Grover contacting him through an empathy link. Pretty sure it’s the same with Annabeth in book three. (Although I don’t remember precisely) And I may not remember the last two books, but I can still conclude that with the number of characters jumping in and out of his head, every time he just sleep normally must be a miracle.
As a dm this was my favorite thing to do with clerics: the party gets stuck, the cleric goes down in a fight and needs a long rest to recover and in that 8 hours they find out a little bit of knowledge that can help the party progress from their deity.
Lovecraft used to use fainting spells just to avoid having to write an end which would explain how his first person narrator survived long enough to tell the story.
@@Here_is_Waldo We've got a century's work of familiarity with them and the idea that humans live in an uncaring universe is no longer so novel. You can buy Cthulhu plushies now.
@imveryangryitsnotbutter Isn't it because cosmic horror has its roots in weird fiction which revolved around deconstructing fantasy monster tropes like vampires and giving them 'alien' features to make them more weird?
My absolute favorite is when the character feels like they managed to solve all of their internal conflict through a dream but reality isn't agreeing with that and it becomes a problem
@wjzav1971 Madeline and Badaline in Celeste fit that pretty well. After the murror temple, Madeline things the answer is to leave behind what she didn't like. Doing so, she gets dragged down to the bottom of the mountain she was climbing and has to work with her bad parts to reach the summit. Granted, the Mirror temple is a dream place like old site, but it's pretty close
It’s a great example. It reveals a past that the audience wants to see without compromising the fact that Eda doesn’t want to talk about those things, it connects her to a major negative force in her life that she wouldn’t have been able to communicate with otherwise, and it gives her a new ability without sacrificing her character arc of losing abilities. And it does all this in a third of an episode. Notice she didn’t use any from the dream sequence in the finale. It wasn’t character development that woke them up, but affirmation of what they already knew.
I wonder how much development I'm missing because I don't remember my dreams. Edit - I know this is late , but I remember my dreams now and I didn't miss shit
For me it comes in phases. No memories for months on end, then I'll get 6 dreams in a row I remember with crystal clarity. The dreams I remember are seldom some silver bullet life lesson; lotta shitposting. But there are cases where the dream says a lot about my subconscious that I hadn't put into clear view before. Also I get dreams where I'm failing at some social challenge over and over again and can't figure it out, but then when I wake up I feel relieved, "Well, I just got a free lesson in what NOT to do."
@@samwallaceart288 I have very few risks of ever getting back to school at 30+, so I don't know what my dreams are trying to teach me there. I know I don't wanna go back. I know I won't. Thanks a lot, brain, I learned nothing new!
Now I want to see a character repeatedly knock out their friend in the hopes of triggering character development. When questioned about this, they will respond "the concussions will continue until morale improves."
When I read “Character Development Coma” I think of a character dropping all their character development up to that point like most of the characters at the end of game of thrones.
Yeah I assumed so. Like when a formerly well-written character just goes off "being evil for the sake of evil" and the rest of the plot is everyone else arguing about how to stop them as they would a flood or forest-fire.
As a narcoleptic, this video was one inside joke with myself after another 😂 I will now be referring to cataplexy as a 'character development coma' and take daily power-up naps. (Also, it's an awesome trope talk.)
I have epileptic seizures. I will definitely start using this as a very dark joke for myself. On another note, I realize I have done this trope for my novella I'm writing, in almost the same way that Dante does. I tip my hat to Calliope.
Honestly, for Dragon Prince I think the answer to “why can’t other people have a dream and wake up with power?” is “they can”. Callum had already been trying to connect to wind magic on his own and finally made the breakthrough in his dream; which kinda fits as the place to cement the kind of innate connection required. Seems to me like anyone could theoretically make the same breakthrough, or at least any other human wizard in the setting.
And with season 5, we got confirmation that anyone who uses dark magic for the first time goes through a coma dream where they must come to terms with what they’ve done and what they want to become. The implication is that Callum is the first we know about who has rejected dark magic in the coma dream and instead used it to fully understand the Sky Arcanum, which lets him use Sky magic.
Glad to see someone else already chimed in with this. It felt awkward the whole time Dragon Prince was playing through the idea of the powerup being novel and unexplained. The lead up was all about Callum talking to naturally magical folk and learning that it's about their deep connection to their associated Arcanum, then he had a dream where he... realized a deep connection to an Arcanum and woke up with the associated magic. lol
@@SirRebrl It's still completely absurd that literally no human being in the history of the world ever tried *any of that,* even *before* Dark Magic was invented.
@@animeotaku307 Good point. When Caelum had his I did question why it wasn't more common I came to the conclusion of laziness. Not in writing, but in-universe. Dark magic is the "easy way out" and since it's been believed the humans can't use magic without some kind of medium, dark magic is the first thing they learn and just, never bother trying to learn primal magic.
@@GeneralBolas to be fair, we don't know for certain that it's literally never been done before, just that anyone Callum asked had never heard of such a thing, and this is post human - magic divide history, and the bias of the magic beings like elves alongside it
I misread this and thought this was a disco elysium reference. “No harry, of course I didn’t have Titus put you into a character development coma. You have a job to do, one I would never interrupt! I’m a busy man harry!”
Nothing that you experience is unreal. Everything you perceive is real, and we know this because otherwise you would have to posit than an unreal thing (say, a dream) can have an effect on a real thing (you), and that's absurd. One's interpretation of an experience might be incorrect. You might think something happened in "real life" (sic) when it was "all in your head", so to speak. But that does not make the experience unreal. You really experienced it. Actual chemicals in your brain guided actual electricity through your synapses to give you that experience. On the level, it was all real. It just might not mean what you think it means.
It's fun to think that every time the Warlock takes a short rest their patron entity uses a coma phone to speak with them before granting them back spell slots. Like it includes a free power up power-nap.
Depending on the patron these conversations will be hilariously different. I can imagine Titania calling up her Warlocks and chatting with them like teenage girls. While there has to be at least one Devil that makes their Warlocks fill out expense reports for their Pact Slots.
"Look Thaddeus, I love your work, but we're running a business here. Replacing familiars, placing curses on your enemies, that cool ice armor that hurts idiots that attack you, all these goodies have a price tag. And honestly we've gotten some compliants about you from some of our other freelancers. I need to take this to HR to get approval before we can get this cleared up, and it just really speeds it up if you make sure you didnt leave any blanks on the form."
@@adambielen8996”Titania, You’ve visited me for the 15th time this week! LET ME SLEEP!! Well, I am asleep, but still, let me have my OWN dreams, with you outta here!”
I’m surprised Red hasn’t gone over the trope of “Comic Relief” yet. But anyway, I freaking love character development comas. It has the potential to be so scary and yet so insightful.
"Comic relief" might be too broad a subject. Like making a video on the concept of "The Protagonist." It's not that there's nothing to say, it's that you'd have to subdivide it so much you might as well make separate videos.
@@Mecharnie_DobbsDoesn’t Scrooge wake up in his bed at the end? Seems to me that he was dreaming, but that doesn’t mean he wasn’t visited by actual spirits. Unless I’m misremembering, idk
One of my favorite examples of this is the Inside Raven's mind episodes from Classic Teen Titans. We see her different emotions personified and doesn't develop Raven as a character fully, but is more so a development for Beast Boy and Cyborg. It's a rare 5th style that takes others into the comascape.
My favorite character development coma ever is Belkar in Order of the Stick. After entering a fever dream due to a magic curse making him incredibly sick, he has an extended conversation with a dead character in a potential coma-phone about how obnoxious he has been. During the dream Belkar comes to the realization "I need to pretend to have character development!" This then proceeds to trigger him having actual character development over the rest of the series after a cleric wakes him up for a great fight scene.
A fellow person of culture I see! I also like how they lampshade it a little. "I might be the spirit of the late Lord Shojo, appearing to you from beyond the grave in your sleep. Or, I'm a tiny personified piece of the magical curse afflicting you, making my influence known through the medium of dreams. Or maybe I'm just a fever-induced hallucination. Who knows?"
Also a perfect example of how the trope can be very UNIQUELY useful sometimes! That scene leads to a very sudden, dramatic, and fundamental change in Belkar's behavior, but the motivation for it is a rather abstract philosophical revelation which he absolutely CAN'T TELL ANYBODY ABOUT! From the rest of the cast's perspective, it looks like on of the most absurdly evil and petty people they know has just grown a fully-formed conscience out of nowhere, and only Belkar himself knows that he's just trying to do the bare minimum to avoid the social consequences of his natural callous selfishness (at least at first)! If there's a way to convey a plot point like that without a patented Character Development Coma, I sure as hell don't know it.
Guardians of the galaxy 3 has an interesting version of this trope. Rocket is unconscious most of the movie which would normally be a problem. But while he’s unconscious, he flashes back to his childhood with his old friends and his abusive creator. That way, he’s still an essential part of the story. And the audience finally gets his perspective on why he was so much of a hard ass in the past movies (some lines are devastating with 3’s context in mind) and it makes it all the more rewarding When he finally confronts his creator.
One of my favorite "character development coma" examples occurs in the iconic Batman story "Red Rain," in which Bruce is visited in his dreams several times by a kind-hearted vampire named Tanya. All these dreams inform him in detail about the nature and existence of vampires, not to mention that they make him obtain vampiric powers without becoming a living dead, which allows him to defeat Dracula, although in the process he ends up dying and resurrecting as the new lord of the vampires
You've been waiting for Red to talk about the "Character Development Coma" trope for quite some time. Yes, yes, I know. You'd like to know how long...I'm afraid it's been...nine years.
Oh my god, you're alive! I havent seen you in a while, as have many others. Ngl i forgot about you. Glad to see you're still alive, commenting, and dont have a mustache still.
There is another kind of character coma: the “open your eyes, dummy“ coma. In the Dresden files, hairy more or less regularly gets knocked out then his bearded dream version yells at him for about a chapter about all the problems he’s ignoring. Absolutely nothing gets solved in the coma, but instead he wakes up with a whole new list of problems he needs to solve while he’s awake.
I love the way the Dresden Files does this. Harry is actually really smart and always gets what's really going on eventually, just usually not in the moment. So these serve to help him figure it all out. The ones in Skin Game (which I think you're referring to) are my favorites. And I love his subconscious. Every time he shows up, it's a good time lol
Omg I read the first ones of those the other day. I like them. It’s used as a way to bludgeon Dresden and the story out of a tight corner, keeps its from getting frustrating.
I think a good twist on this trope is when the dreams are nonsensical and bizarre at first glance, but in reality are allegorical reflections of what a character goes through. The person having the dream doesn't get it at first, but when the events of the story play-out in similar fashion, the character finally gets it and is able to be helpful with their new outlook on it. It gives readers ability to brainstorm what the dreams really meant (since dreams otherwise have no reason to exist in stories outside of comedy or a shallow stock episode), the writer and/or artist to go crazy with its presentation, and a very relatable moments of waking up from a dream and going “the hell did I just dream about?”. I kinda got the idea from a scene in BlazBlue where Rachel tells Ragna a story about a knight trying to rewrite his story, yet the ending of it stays the same. It makes sense in that story in terms of presentation, since Rachel is basically the Watcher, but I had the idea that a character can be given that same story (in a more artsy fashion) in a dream.
Speaking of the character development coma, I loved how the BTAS episode "Perchance of a Dream", the Superman comic "For the Man Who has Everything" and the Demon Slayer movie "Infinite Train" explore the concept of the tragic protagonist who, under the mental control of a villain, dreams that he lives in an ideal reality where his deceased loved ones are still alive and he does not carry the enormous emotional burden that their deaths brought upon him, only to realize later that living in a lie hurts you in the end and the only thing you can do is facing the present no matter how hard it can be. Without a doubt one of the best ways to develop a character 👍
it's a test of will, dramatic revelation, kickass "I'm stronger than your dream magic" moment (especially demon slayer), you get to reveal their heart's desire, play around with what the world would be like without their heroics. It's oh so very good on oh so many layers.
On my most recent rewatch of ATLA a few years ago I found that The Earth King was my favorite episode (for many reasons) including how much I loved Zuko's tossing and turning scenes. People love the dream sequences but I think it's the real life portions with Zuko and Iroh that sell it. The relatability and intensity of his physical and mental sickness (shirtless sweating in bed, guzzling down water not even caring if it spills out of the bucket). How through all of it Iroh is stoic and honest about the fact that it's going to be difficult, being like Zuko's rock as the ocean currents inside him get violent. Zuko screams awake and Iroh is just meditating right beside him and doesn’t so much as move a muscle. And the fact that despite the growth he goes through, it's all leading to one of the worst choices Zuko will make in his entire life. It all felt very grounded and powerful. To me this is the best showcase of his inner conflictedness and the moment the character reaches peak "compelling-ness".
I immediately thought of Belkar from Order of the Stick. He basically decided to fake character development so he could deal with fewer problems caused by his impulsiveness, but then started going through actual development.
You know the trope In storytelling, it's a norm When a person's in trouble A manifestation Of their subconscious appears in the form of a 🌠 *DREAM GHOST* 🌠
I’m gonna take you On a journey through time and space And in the end you you realize you knew the answer all along Honestly it’s a bit of a waste to be a 🛌 *Dream Ghost!* 🛌
Star Wars, at least in the Clone Wars, often has functional character development comas that take place while the character is still awake but on a strange, Force powered planet. Take the Mortis Saga or Yoda's Arc for examples. In these arcs, the characters are isolated and the planets are so strong in the Force that strange, illogical, and impossible things happen almost like it's a dream. These locations are isolated too, so only the character experiences them and when they return, it almost feels like a dream even though the things actually happened. I think it was a very cool way to do a character development coma without actually putting the character to sleep. Lucas didn't delve much into character imaginations and dreams, he focused much more strongly on the objective and real (in his world). Even the nLucas explored dreams, those dreams less imagination and more often future events that were going to happen. So he constructed these worlds where the Force made impossible but real things happen to develop his character but these locations were so isolated that they didn't impact the rest of reality but they did impact the character who experienced them. That's how Lucas used Dogabah as well, it's a remote world where strange things happen to Luke and he communicates with Force ghosts to develop him. It's a functional character development coma but it actually takes place in the reality of the movie.
I love when the inside battle matches a physical battle that's happening just outside, especially when you can see the awake characters fighting like the sleeping one.
The fact that the Ashoka series just had it's dream coma episode last week makes this feel perfectly timed. Especially since you used Anakin's dreams in RotS as an example.
@@ThinWhiteAxeone half of me doesn’t want to take the fanservice bait while the other one is completely and absolutely overjoyed about seeing live action Clone Wars
@@sentientmustache8360 i was alright with the fanservice because it was clearly Dave seeing a chance to give Hayden's Anakin the character development Anakin got in the animated series. Dave saw the chance to bring it to live action and went all in. I gotta respect him for that.
@@ThinWhiteAxe yeah I liked the episode. I just hope they clarify if that was actual ghost Anakin or Ashoka's memory of him in her mind in the future. Because I want Ashoka to get a chance to see redeemed ghost Anakin
Counterpoint to your example of the dragon prince when Callum wakes up with the sky Arcanum - Every variety of magic in that world originates from a truth, that you have to learn directly in order to learn it. Magical creatures are born with that understanding, while humans must make it themselves. Callum was close to figurung it out directly, the dark magic was just the trigger to allow it.
"the dark magic was just the trigger to allow it" is also I think the key point. Given the latest series, as spoiler free as I can be, it seems that the only people who have forged connections to extra Arcanum are those who also used Dark Magic. Which would explain why it's so rare. Because Elves mostly refuse to use Dark Magic, and Humans who do, don't usually seek an understanding of the Arcanum. They just use the Dark Magic they know.
@@madeleinedartois4689 She understands it intrinsically, she just doesn't know how to explain it to someone who doesn't. When something comes naturally to you, you generally don't learn how to teach it to someone as a step-by-step process since that isn't how you learned it.
I love it when writers use this trope to showcase a character's ideal world or nightmare. The DC Animated Universe did this all the time. In the episode from Batman the Animated Series titled "Perchance to Dream," the audience was able to see a version of Bruce Wayne's ideal reality, where he wasn't Batman, but there was still a Batman, which allowed him to spend his time being happy with his family. In Justice League Unlimited's "For the Man Who Has Everything," the audience is able to see Superman's ideal reality as well. The tragedy in both of these episodes came when Batman and Superman had to leave their ideal worlds in order to save the day. These dreams may have been fake, but the things they revealed about their characters and the emotions they evoked were important and impactful nonetheless. Besides, I doubt the audience would have been able to see what Batman and Superman imagine their perfect lives to be like outside of a dream, as neither of them are likely to talk about those sorts of things.
I remember when Batman comes out of the Dream Machine and confronts Mad Hatter by simply hissing "Why!". Showing him a reality that wasn't and could never be true was probably the cruelest thing one could do to him. And Hatter didn't even know what Batman's "perfect world" looked like, only that he rejected it.
@@wjzav1971 Oh, that part hurts so much. You can just feel Bruce's pain. Imagining one's perfect world is one thing, but having to live in it as if it were real.... Honestly, Mad Hatter's ploy in that episode was crueler than most of Joker's plans in that series.
"For The Man Who has Everything", just the title alone invokes those moments where Clark has to say goodbye to Jon, hugging him with tears in both their eyes as the world crumbles around them. It was so heartbreaking.
My favourite for this is probably Callum in The Dragon Prince. Callum's arc involves finding his purpose by becoming a mage (he chose this), but he lost his focus for Storm magic (as a human, he wasnt born with an innate connection) to allow the titular dragon prince to hatch before the egg died. To save his friends he uses Dark Magic, which involves using the bodies and essence of creatures that have an innate magical connection. It also has a corrupting influence on people. He proceeds to pass out from the exertion, and has a trippy dream that involves figuring out what he wants, and also learning what the Storm arcanum is (this has been his goal the entire season).
Not really? He had magic via the drak magic and that pushing backwith his desire ad understanding fro the weird pirate that apearently too uses magic. The breakthrough has a lot offactors tht show its hard but posible that humans can can connect there, his brotheer talks with animals for gods sake. Its not out of nowhere.
@@marocat4749 I never said it was out of nowhere? I'm saying I liked that dream sequence. I felt it was a great conclusion to him trying to understand the sky Arcanum. Edit: I misunderstood, I realize this wasn't directed at me.
@@Blwbelle They didn't though. Its explained that magical creatures are born with a connection to the arcanum, but that it involves an understanding it. Callum works to understand the Sky arcanum.
In defense of Dragon Prince, it really does seem like "anyone can wake up with a new power." I'm not finished catching up yet, but I'm far enough to learn that everyone has an inner fight coma their first time using dark magic. For Claudia and her father they embraced it and came out as dark mages. Callum rejected it and thanks to the time he spent in the real world trying, was able to make a connection with the sky at the same time. Currently, as far as I've watched, Viren is going through it a second time thanks to having been resurrected, and it's unclear if he'll make the same choice this time. I doubt he'll get other magic if he rejects but it'll certainly change him. (Maybe kill him? It's been a while so I'm fuzzy on it)
Yes, there's actually no reason to think that there are lots of humans who have connected to a primal source. Unlike with magical creatures, humans don't have an innate ability that they can use. They can't just turn invisible on a full moon or something. Humans need to cast spells and spells require three conditions: 1. A connection with an Arcanum. 2. You need to draw a rune in the air. You probably also need to be thinking about drawing the rune (otherwise Callum would just always be drawing white lines). 3. You need to speak a specific draconic word in order to release the spell. It's entirely possible that normal people have come to understand one of the primal sources but they never tried casting spells or speaking draconic. Villads for instance, likely understood the sky Arcanum but he's never actually tried casting a spell.
viren didn't try to connect to any arcanum like he just completely rejected magic as a whole in his dream because he saw the consequences of his previous actions on there. he didn't actually try, in comparison to callum, to connect to an arcanum because he just completely gave up on it and any use it might have
_Yes,_ the Owl House being used more as a Trope Talk example! Can't wait for a future Trope Talk or even Detail Diatribe to analyze it in-depth! Hope you get around to watching Amphibia, too, Red. It's a bit more episodic than the Owl House and may be a slog to go through, especially for people who are only in for the plot but it is important for character development. It's worth it, I promise!
Ahh character development dreams. Can be done very well and I do like a lot of them. Though I really hate when it’s done badly. Thank you red for talking about this trope.
I love the idea of waking up from the nap with neither a bad or good lesson, just a silly one. Like if Zuko saw that reflection of Aang and determined that he was the avatar Or Samurai Jack woke up and determined Cats were the secret to defeating Aku
I want to shoutout Jujutsu Kaisen, for having one of the best character development coma sequences I've seen, while the character in question was dead. Great anime.
It's amazing how well you take 'vibes' from tropes/book series and turn it into a breakdown with rules and explanations. It makes it feel like I can write something neat.
@@wjzav1971 which is surprising, i sorta get a little why (some of it wasn't done as well as it could've been) but it was still a good show. I enjoy watching it.
Speaking of Dreams I feel like both The man who has Everything from Superman and Puhoy from Adventure time play this idea quite well. Superman being so caring that even a fake world has meaning and value to him, while Finns whole life in another world, his wife and family asks him if he ever returns not to forget them, Finn wakes up and cant remember anything. I honestly cant tell if thats more terrifying in the sense that dream tropes tend to overlap with simulation threory and Thulpa ideas.
I recently binged Attack on Titan and I feel like "character development coma" is a pretty good way to describe the scenes where Zeke and Eren walk through the shared memories of the Founder.
I think the example of Callum figuring out the Sky Arcanum has a few things going for it that weren't really spelled out in the show. Firstly, he'd been putting a lot of effort into properly understanding the arcanum, which, naturally a lot of would-be air mages would also do. However, I think the cinching factor was his use of dark magic, which has been shown to have a kind of addictive effect, and I suspect also acts as a bit of a crutch to mages. Once you can crush a bug and hurl a fireball, why worry about being able to figure out how it works? Callum experienced that kind of magic but rejected it, putting him in the kind of deep state where he could properly comprehend how air magic works. Of course that's almost entirely head-canon, and not substantiated by the show, but I still feel like it makes sense on balance.
Even without the dark magic angle, I think his felt earned because he was already putting the work and study into figuring it out, and the dream sequence just served as his "a-ha!" moment. "A-ha" moments like that are common for people learning new things in the real world, but they don't read especially well outside of a montage or dream sequence in media, so an "a-ha" moment in a dream almost always feels good/right.
Also, i got the impression that anyone who met the right conditions can, in fact, "just take a nap and wake up with super powers". Callum was just the first
I haven't watched the last season yet because the first couple of episodes felt like a regression (rather than continuing building on the previous character arcs, but maybe that's just me), but I always interpreted it as, 1) he worked really hard at it, 2) they say humans can't do magic, (except black magic), but that might not actually be true, and 3) we don't know who his biological father is, who might very well have been an elf or something, with Callum just looking fully human. Of course, if the latest season sheds any light on this, I stand corrected.
As always I love your use of color when emphasizing different points or ideas you try to get across. In the last example, where you get a power-up after a good long nap, I thought of the Hyperbolic Time Chamber. I know they're two different things, but they essentially fulfill the role of allowing a character to unlock a new power or improve their existing ones. Plus it's like one day outside so it might as well be a 24-hour coma
My favorite subtrope is when a team of friends through magic, scifi tech or cartoon logic just straight up go into dreamer's dream and have an Alice in Wonderland experience. Usually just to extract some sort of memory, lol
A related trope I love is the "break out of the dream world" trope where the characters have been trapped in a fake reality and have to figure it out then break free. When done well it can be so cathartic, e.g. TTGL, Shera, SSSS Gridman / Dynazenon
More of these need to follow zuko's arc. Not that all stories need to treat characters like real people BUT real people dont just have a dream and wake up changed. You have the dream and then maybe it helps you to grow in the waking world but no matter how different you feel in the morning nothing actually happened and other than maybe some new mild trauma, not much has actually changed inside you. Zuko was great because he had the dream, started actung all different, and then immediately went back to his old self the second he was challenged. And yet many episodes later that dream and that moment of internal shift still plays a role and matters for his later development when he changes for real why is AtlA so well written?!
The best part of a dream character arc is when the character in itself isn't likeable by the audience or doesnt have enough time in the spotlight until all the nuances of their persona are revealed by his mental psyche
Harrow the Ninth manages to be an entire novel built around the narrative usefulness of making your protagonist constantly fall unconscious, which is quite impressive.
1:59 I loved the story ending of Dragon Quest Monsters because the ending is literally, "you wake up in bed... and get whisked away by monsters back to the other world again, no escape"
It was interesting seeing red and mauler covering almost exactly the same topic in exactly different ways. Red gave an abstract overview of when you would want to use the trope, and mauler gave a point by point comparison of case studies
I am suprised she never did a talk on secret organizations because there are so many of them: -SHEILD (Marvel) -Monarch (Monsterverse) -Order of Mata Nui (Bionicle) -Mages Association (Fate) -SEELE (Evangelion) -Hellsing Organization (Hellsing) -Speedwagon Foundation (Jojo) In a lot of action oriented shows there always seems to be some shadow organization taking care of stuff from the shadows that other heroes dont know about or hide from public eye
One of my favorite examples of this trope is in Ancient Magnus Bride, the main character Chise has... so many issues, but one of the big ones is self hatred and trauma from her childhood (her father abandoned her and her mother for unknown reasons which eventually lead her mother to start lashing out at Chise before eventually.... Chise gets passed around as an orphan, yeah it's dark), this is basically what the entire series is about so long story short, she gradually learns her own value, and her and Elias become close as they each teach the other about the world. This leads to a moment where she is alone, after talking with people about her self hatred and tendency for self sacrifice and she realizes that she's really free, she's her own person she can choose to go anywhere in the world, but so she decideds she wants to be with Elias and chooses to go back to where she now comfortably feels is home, the strain of doing his knocks her out and during her following dream she finally remembers a happy memory of her whole family together from before her father left, and yes I cried why do you ask... that's such a good way to show her growing up past the trauma of her mother's abuse.
Ah, great timing! I was just coming on TH-cam to rewatch old Trope Talks and what do I find? A brand new one! Thank you so much OSP! Just what I needed this evening!
An interesting twist on this is the movie Inception, where the main characters are actually trying to have someone undergo 'character development' while in a dream
9:23 Shout out to the Warrior (cats) series where God, who in this series is basically every character who has died up to that point, sends the characters a prophetic dream or sign of something and the characters always take it in the most infuriatingly wrong way possible because the dreams are always vague as shit for no reason other than to create drama.
OSP: Where the writing and voice work is so good you could enjoy listening while you did something else, but the animation is so good you'd be a fool to miss it.
Red mentioned sleepy time junction, and so every time she was like "and here is how you wallop the characters in their mind", I heard "the plot: ALL ABOARD!!!!"
Now I know what this trope is! I couldn't figure it out for so long, just based on the title, but it's a trope I've seen all over the place. Great video as always, Red! [PS Please do Heroic Sacrifices!]
Unicorns are really minor characters. Showing up in Blade Runner, to let you know you're in a dream. In 'Mister Nobody' to let you know you're in Heaven. As toys. In Harry Potter, being hunted. Fighting a lion, for the crown. Failing to get onto Noah's Arc. They only get to be among the main-characters, in My Little Pony, and in The Apprentice Adept book series (1980) by Piers Anthony.
@@Mecharnie_Dobbs I didn't mean only as characters, I meant as a mythic or folklore concept. Besides that, The Last Unicorn at the very least is one story with a unicorn as a protagonist, and most of the major characters in the Firebringer trilogy are unicorns.
This is why the “mental landscape” works better sometimes IMO. Like you used Bleach as an example but everything that happened there was 100% real and will have consequences. Another shounen example was the times Naruto fought the 9 tails. Yes, it was inside his mental landscape but everything inside there was real.
Yeah, this weird off-color version of you is an obvious metaphor for your inner demons, but is also actually a Hollow and will actually kill you if you can't figure out how to use your Zanpakuto
"Dreamland" is my favorite Archer arc. There are few shows that I watch more than once, and I've fully watched this 4 times. The differences in Archer's character was substantiated in a reality subtext that applied to both the character and the cast. It didn't have an 'all just a dream' deflation because it was apparent from the beginning, which did not detract from the dramatic tension.
That one, more than any of the other coma seasons goes into Archer's character. I love the others for what they are (especially 1999), but Dreamland just has more heart.
Archer is the only 'adult' cartoon or maybe even 'adult' show that I enjoy. But I have only been able to watch it by chance when I am flipping through the channels. I loved the dreamland arc. The show has sophistication and heart. And I love the little details of this arc such as the fact that Lana is so beautiful. (Not that she isn't normally, but I just think this is exactly how Archer would see Lana in his dream.)
Hmm, I wonder what Red could have recently written that might have inspired this trope talk... (I'm loving Aurora, by the way. Big thanks to the person posting the alt text for mobile users!)
My favourite version of this trope was in Tengen Toppa Gurren Lagann where Anti Spiral knocks everyone into a multiverse labyrinth and unintentionally starts the Character Development Coma episode. Bonus points because this isn't technically character development coma if you think about it-because Simon at this point had nothing to develop anymore and immediately bursts through the Development Coma.
The one in The Dragon Prince makes sense because the arcanums are established to come from fully grasping the element. This means that it's all internal anyway, so a power-up coma where you reach a point of subconsciously grasping the element makes sense. It's about a different frame of mind
@@gota7738 We don't know why it was so easy for Callum in this moment. That doesn't mean there wasn't a reason. Callum was in a very unique circumstance and there are half a dozen ways that his situation could not be duplicated easily. Examples include a reluctant use of dark magic in an extreme moment, traveling with a powerful sky magic creature, using then destroying (to save Zym) the sky primal stone, etc...
I’ve seen this trope so often yet never realized it was a thing. Even Bob’s Burgers did this! BTW I see Callum’s coma as more of a Mystical Vision Quest.
Gosh I wish I had character development dreams instead of weird dreams about taking a train to the other side of the country only to sit at the other station and watch the news
Just finished my first book, and am in the process of editing now. I'd like to say, thank you, to the people who make this show. It really helped a great deal.
Dreams are Messages from The Deep. EDIT: My favorite Character Development Coma is kind of a real life one. Mae Dean used this plot device in her comics as a way to illustrate the process of her realizing her gender identity.
I don't think I've ever heard someone refer to Anakin slaughtering the younglings as "morally questionable".
Well, they were kind of annoying.
Just a tad dubious
Think of it this way, young children are being groomed to "steal other children" to train them and stifle their emotional intelligence all to serve a corrupt Senate and an outdate/out of touch monastic order of monk knights believing in a pseudo science faith system. -totally not Palaptine or Jar Jar
I would certainly describe it in *harsher* terms.
As someone who works children on a daily basis, off and on, for the last 8 years, it's definitely denateable
"The average character is unlikely to talk like they're trying to get a good grade in therapy" gotta be one of my favorite quotes
Unless they're in a Christopher Nolan movie.
As a person who sometimes talks like he's trying to get a good grade in therapy, I want to point out how said behavior would probably not result in a good grade in therapy.
I hate that feeling when I stand up too fast and start having vague and ambiguous visions of my future that prompt me to reconsider my life for a few seconds.
Same. Like, can't my character development call in again later?
I may have plot from 9-5 with some character-defining moments to attend to.
Could be worse, you might find you have left the TV news 24 hour channel on and find it is shouting morally questionable politicians.
You too?
Thats called iron deficiency
That feeling is awesome; I don't have visions though; I just get really light headed.
After running the mile in PE, I would sit down for two minutes, then jump up super quick
I almost passed out one time (I would run 6 minute miles; not too fast, but exhausting nonetheless)
"Oh my gosh are you okay?" - "I fly now"
Gotta say I love the built-in jokes on the slides, they always get an unexpected laugh out of me
They fly now???
@@void-creature They fly now.
“Call me Nat Geo because I’ve got a ton of gorgeous issues” is an amazing line and I am 100% stealing it
That is pretty cringe to re-use lines like that. Be witty and just come up with stuff on the spot
@@pyropulseIXXI Who cares, there's nothing new under the sun anyway
@@YayaFeiLong There is plenty new under the Sun; just not in an absolute term
Personally, I would tire of using a clever line that I took. Might be new to the person hearing it, but not to me
@@pyropulseIXXIthe journey to find self-esteem continues lmao best of luck to ya
@@pyropulseIXXIguess it depends, is your goal to feel clever, or to make someone laugh? ;)
I love when Plot happens in Aurora and like two months later a trope talk comes out conveniently coinciding with that Plot
Was literally thinking, "This just what Kendal's been doing for the past few chapters," the entire video.
EXACTLY. "Oh, Kendal woke up, time to talk about the narrative potential of coma"
Not to mention that Ahsoka had a big version of this just last week.
I just read the entirety of the comic in the past two days. When I saw the title of this video, I knew where red got the idea from.
Is that red’s comic? How do I access it?
Someone literally fighting their own metaphorical character traits is my favorite
Superstar cop moment
How to solve anger issues:
Option 1: get help from your family and therapist
Option 2: violence
"Take that, envy!"
"Eat sh*t, hubris!"
"Die, commitment problems!"
"Not today, self-loathing!"
And then they fuse at the end.
Every time
@@thejohnhopkinscompany9599you just described Disco Elysium
Describing Anakin slaughtering children as "morally questionable" is the biggest understatement I've heard in a very long time.
"Hell is often considered a little on the warm side..."
What's the question? I don't feel like there's any ambiguity that shishkebabing the babs was a bad move.
maybe they generally dont' care about child homicide?
"Okay, Anakin, this here is what we would term a 'whoopsie-doodle...'"
@@JetstreamGW (vague memories of seekers doing strafe runs on human civilians for kicks) hmm...
Ah, fiction, where "coma" always ends in waking up, fresh as a daisy.
Sometimes you're allowed to be groggy and power atrophied, but mostly in video games when they need to reset your abilities.
Or they wanted to work in a "I lost my powers" episode while they were at it.@@kalef2
@@PhilipK635 On the other hand the one that bugs me is when a urban fantasy/sci fi show does the episode where the protagonist gets caught in a dream where they're in a mental hospital and the rest of the series has been a delusion. They always try so hard to sell the possibility that it's real, like we're ever gonna buy that.
@@PhilipK635would an example be The Lightning Thief where Percy literally learns that Luke is the villain in a dream but forgets?
@@GriffinPilgrimone that bugs me more is when, fandom as a whole or just a random fan, comes up with that idea as a 'theory' and feels really proud and all the other fans just go full yes-men. I have even seen a comment saying that it can be good sometimes.
I love that almost any trope talk can circle to Avatar. What a great series.
finding a avatar connection is one of the requirements before the start the script
It is a fantasy story
As soon as you mentioned dreams giving exposition, I immediately thought of Percy Jackson. Every dream he has is either symbolic or just straight up showing what is happening with the enemies. I swear, never once has this pour kid ever dreamt of going to school naked, or magically transforming the gods into gummy worms or something.
I remember they addressed that. "Yeah dreams are usually prophecies, have fun!" I remember he got a good night's sleep once and it was a moment of relief.
@@OmniGundam777you’re right and it isn’t even the only explanation given.
In book one Kronos is the one making the link to try and scare, manipulate, or intimidate him. Which isn’t even always on purpose.
Book two it’s Grover contacting him through an empathy link.
Pretty sure it’s the same with Annabeth in book three. (Although I don’t remember precisely)
And I may not remember the last two books, but I can still conclude that with the number of characters jumping in and out of his head, every time he just sleep normally must be a miracle.
For a sec I was confused about the “brother” thing, but then I remembered Tyson.
@@dudewhatthewhat8983 Bro I'm pretty sure that none of the demigods have a dreamless night. Hell, in the book they often joke about it.
As a dm this was my favorite thing to do with clerics: the party gets stuck, the cleric goes down in a fight and needs a long rest to recover and in that 8 hours they find out a little bit of knowledge that can help the party progress from their deity.
Lovecraft used to use fainting spells just to avoid having to write an end which would explain how his first person narrator survived long enough to tell the story.
He also gave all his monsters tentacles and fishy traits because he had a phobia of seafood.
For "unimaginable horrors", Lovecraft's monsters were always pretty imaginable.
@@Here_is_Waldo We've got a century's work of familiarity with them and the idea that humans live in an uncaring universe is no longer so novel. You can buy Cthulhu plushies now.
@@imveryangryitsnotbutterhe had a phobia of everything
@imveryangryitsnotbutter Isn't it because cosmic horror has its roots in weird fiction which revolved around deconstructing fantasy monster tropes like vampires and giving them 'alien' features to make them more weird?
My absolute favorite is when the character feels like they managed to solve all of their internal conflict through a dream but reality isn't agreeing with that and it becomes a problem
You can say Zuko.
Is there any other example for that, other than Zuko?
@@wjzav1971 Lex Luthor from smallville
@wjzav1971 Madeline and Badaline in Celeste fit that pretty well. After the murror temple, Madeline things the answer is to leave behind what she didn't like.
Doing so, she gets dragged down to the bottom of the mountain she was climbing and has to work with her bad parts to reach the summit. Granted, the Mirror temple is a dream place like old site, but it's pretty close
@@wjzav1971Tony Soprano
And once again we see Red's ongoing quest to implement footage from The Owl House into every single trope talk.
It’s a great example. It reveals a past that the audience wants to see without compromising the fact that Eda doesn’t want to talk about those things, it connects her to a major negative force in her life that she wouldn’t have been able to communicate with otherwise, and it gives her a new ability without sacrificing her character arc of losing abilities. And it does all this in a third of an episode.
Notice she didn’t use any from the dream sequence in the finale. It wasn’t character development that woke them up, but affirmation of what they already knew.
Still not nearly as many times as she's added Avatar lol
Good.
And avatar
She's already done it with Avatar. Now we need to do it with Owl House.
I wonder how much development I'm missing because I don't remember my dreams.
Edit - I know this is late , but I remember my dreams now and I didn't miss shit
For me my dreams are half the time weird shit posts.
I don't either. ,And the rare time I do, the message could be a lot more obvious.
I actually do
For me it comes in phases. No memories for months on end, then I'll get 6 dreams in a row I remember with crystal clarity.
The dreams I remember are seldom some silver bullet life lesson; lotta shitposting. But there are cases where the dream says a lot about my subconscious that I hadn't put into clear view before. Also I get dreams where I'm failing at some social challenge over and over again and can't figure it out, but then when I wake up I feel relieved, "Well, I just got a free lesson in what NOT to do."
@@samwallaceart288 I have very few risks of ever getting back to school at 30+, so I don't know what my dreams are trying to teach me there. I know I don't wanna go back. I know I won't. Thanks a lot, brain, I learned nothing new!
Practically, getting physically knocked out and sent into a character development coma is the storytelling equivalent of percussive maintenance
Now I want to see a character repeatedly knock out their friend in the hopes of triggering character development. When questioned about this, they will respond "the concussions will continue until morale improves."
When I read “Character Development Coma” I think of a character dropping all their character development up to that point like most of the characters at the end of game of thrones.
that was my first thought too
Yeah I assumed so. Like when a formerly well-written character just goes off "being evil for the sake of evil" and the rest of the plot is everyone else arguing about how to stop them as they would a flood or forest-fire.
your thinking of Character Development Comatoss
As a narcoleptic, this video was one inside joke with myself after another 😂 I will now be referring to cataplexy as a 'character development coma' and take daily power-up naps. (Also, it's an awesome trope talk.)
Aww man, you have powerup power naps? I'm so jelly.
I have epileptic seizures. I will definitely start using this as a very dark joke for myself.
On another note, I realize I have done this trope for my novella I'm writing, in almost the same way that Dante does. I tip my hat to Calliope.
Honestly, for Dragon Prince I think the answer to “why can’t other people have a dream and wake up with power?” is “they can”. Callum had already been trying to connect to wind magic on his own and finally made the breakthrough in his dream; which kinda fits as the place to cement the kind of innate connection required. Seems to me like anyone could theoretically make the same breakthrough, or at least any other human wizard in the setting.
And with season 5, we got confirmation that anyone who uses dark magic for the first time goes through a coma dream where they must come to terms with what they’ve done and what they want to become. The implication is that Callum is the first we know about who has rejected dark magic in the coma dream and instead used it to fully understand the Sky Arcanum, which lets him use Sky magic.
Glad to see someone else already chimed in with this. It felt awkward the whole time Dragon Prince was playing through the idea of the powerup being novel and unexplained.
The lead up was all about Callum talking to naturally magical folk and learning that it's about their deep connection to their associated Arcanum, then he had a dream where he... realized a deep connection to an Arcanum and woke up with the associated magic. lol
@@SirRebrl It's still completely absurd that literally no human being in the history of the world ever tried *any of that,* even *before* Dark Magic was invented.
@@animeotaku307 Good point. When Caelum had his I did question why it wasn't more common I came to the conclusion of laziness. Not in writing, but in-universe. Dark magic is the "easy way out" and since it's been believed the humans can't use magic without some kind of medium, dark magic is the first thing they learn and just, never bother trying to learn primal magic.
@@GeneralBolas to be fair, we don't know for certain that it's literally never been done before, just that anyone Callum asked had never heard of such a thing, and this is post human - magic divide history, and the bias of the magic beings like elves alongside it
To quote Dumbledore: "Of course it is happening inside your head, Harry, but why on earth should that mean it is not real?"
I misread this and thought this was a disco elysium reference. “No harry, of course I didn’t have Titus put you into a character development coma. You have a job to do, one I would never interrupt! I’m a busy man harry!”
Nothing that you experience is unreal. Everything you perceive is real, and we know this because otherwise you would have to posit than an unreal thing (say, a dream) can have an effect on a real thing (you), and that's absurd.
One's interpretation of an experience might be incorrect. You might think something happened in "real life" (sic) when it was "all in your head", so to speak.
But that does not make the experience unreal. You really experienced it. Actual chemicals in your brain guided actual electricity through your synapses to give you that experience. On the level, it was all real.
It just might not mean what you think it means.
It's fun to think that every time the Warlock takes a short rest their patron entity uses a coma phone to speak with them before granting them back spell slots. Like it includes a free power up power-nap.
Depending on the patron these conversations will be hilariously different. I can imagine Titania calling up her Warlocks and chatting with them like teenage girls. While there has to be at least one Devil that makes their Warlocks fill out expense reports for their Pact Slots.
"Look Thaddeus, I love your work, but we're running a business here. Replacing familiars, placing curses on your enemies, that cool ice armor that hurts idiots that attack you, all these goodies have a price tag. And honestly we've gotten some compliants about you from some of our other freelancers. I need to take this to HR to get approval before we can get this cleared up, and it just really speeds it up if you make sure you didnt leave any blanks on the form."
@@adambielen8996”Titania, You’ve visited me for the 15th time this week! LET ME SLEEP!!
Well, I am asleep, but still, let me have my OWN dreams, with you outta here!”
@@josephperez2004”No rest for the unwaking…”
I’m surprised Red hasn’t gone over the trope of “Comic Relief” yet.
But anyway, I freaking love character development comas. It has the potential to be so scary and yet so insightful.
"Comic relief" might be too broad a subject. Like making a video on the concept of "The Protagonist." It's not that there's nothing to say, it's that you'd have to subdivide it so much you might as well make separate videos.
She touched upon it tangentially in the crouching moron hidden badass episode.
Red hasn't, but terrible writing advice has
@@tinyetoile5503 ... every night, I toss and I turn and I dream of the OSP/TWA crossover...
She also touched on it in the Heart of the five man band trope, especially with the Flash from Justice League.
How was A Christmas Carol not mentioned? It hits the nail square on the head!
Because that wasn't a dream?
@@Mecharnie_DobbsDoesn’t Scrooge wake up in his bed at the end? Seems to me that he was dreaming, but that doesn’t mean he wasn’t visited by actual spirits. Unless I’m misremembering, idk
@@dawnofhavoc11235 I mean, he is constantly waking up and going back to sleep, so I guess it's up for interpretation
@@dawnofhavoc11235 To paraphrase Neil Gaiman it probably was a dream...but it wasn't JUST a dream.
Because trope talks explain a trope, they are a not catalogue of every useage of a trope
One of my favorite examples of this is the Inside Raven's mind episodes from Classic Teen Titans. We see her different emotions personified and doesn't develop Raven as a character fully, but is more so a development for Beast Boy and Cyborg. It's a rare 5th style that takes others into the comascape.
It also sets up her father for Season. 4.
It was also great to hear the VA in several different emotional states (almost different personalities)
My favorite character development coma ever is Belkar in Order of the Stick. After entering a fever dream due to a magic curse making him incredibly sick, he has an extended conversation with a dead character in a potential coma-phone about how obnoxious he has been. During the dream Belkar comes to the realization "I need to pretend to have character development!" This then proceeds to trigger him having actual character development over the rest of the series after a cleric wakes him up for a great fight scene.
"I AM A SEXY SHOELESS-"
"-god... of... war..."
A fellow person of culture I see!
I also like how they lampshade it a little. "I might be the spirit of the late Lord Shojo, appearing to you from beyond the grave in your sleep. Or, I'm a tiny personified piece of the magical curse afflicting you, making my influence known through the medium of dreams. Or maybe I'm just a fever-induced hallucination. Who knows?"
It might not count as a 'coma' but a certain character moment with Durken comes to mind . . .
Also a perfect example of how the trope can be very UNIQUELY useful sometimes! That scene leads to a very sudden, dramatic, and fundamental change in Belkar's behavior, but the motivation for it is a rather abstract philosophical revelation which he absolutely CAN'T TELL ANYBODY ABOUT! From the rest of the cast's perspective, it looks like on of the most absurdly evil and petty people they know has just grown a fully-formed conscience out of nowhere, and only Belkar himself knows that he's just trying to do the bare minimum to avoid the social consequences of his natural callous selfishness (at least at first)! If there's a way to convey a plot point like that without a patented Character Development Coma, I sure as hell don't know it.
@@Tigerlady248 That's fun, because it's a character development coma that lets Durkon run around during it.
Guardians of the galaxy 3 has an interesting version of this trope. Rocket is unconscious most of the movie which would normally be a problem. But while he’s unconscious, he flashes back to his childhood with his old friends and his abusive creator. That way, he’s still an essential part of the story. And the audience finally gets his perspective on why he was so much of a hard ass in the past movies (some lines are devastating with 3’s context in mind) and it makes it all the more rewarding When he finally confronts his creator.
"Ain't nothing like me but me." Just Rocket being Rocket with only Guardians 1, hits like a truck with the context of Guardians 3's flashbacks.
@@testytest69420 💔
One of my favorite "character development coma" examples occurs in the iconic Batman story "Red Rain," in which Bruce is visited in his dreams several times by a kind-hearted vampire named Tanya. All these dreams inform him in detail about the nature and existence of vampires, not to mention that they make him obtain vampiric powers without becoming a living dead, which allows him to defeat Dracula, although in the process he ends up dying and resurrecting as the new lord of the vampires
What the hell????????? Batmans a vampire!?
@@boshwa20Not usually. DC multiverse can get wild.
You've been waiting for Red to talk about the "Character Development Coma" trope for quite some time. Yes, yes, I know. You'd like to know how long...I'm afraid it's been...nine years.
Oh my god, you're alive!
I havent seen you in a while, as have many others. Ngl i forgot about you. Glad to see you're still alive, commenting, and dont have a mustache still.
She really kept us waiting
Respect your dedication of such patience
ah yes, severe head injuries. often referred to as the "blunt instruments" of character development.
The "percussive maintenance" approach to character development.
If it ain’t broke don’t fix it, I guess.
There is another kind of character coma: the “open your eyes, dummy“ coma. In the Dresden files, hairy more or less regularly gets knocked out then his bearded dream version yells at him for about a chapter about all the problems he’s ignoring. Absolutely nothing gets solved in the coma, but instead he wakes up with a whole new list of problems he needs to solve while he’s awake.
I love the way the Dresden Files does this. Harry is actually really smart and always gets what's really going on eventually, just usually not in the moment. So these serve to help him figure it all out. The ones in Skin Game (which I think you're referring to) are my favorites. And I love his subconscious. Every time he shows up, it's a good time lol
Having only just started the Dresden Files (literally just finished the first book today), this sounds very much like something to look forward to
This is legit an amazing example!!!
Omg I read the first ones of those the other day. I like them. It’s used as a way to bludgeon Dresden and the story out of a tight corner, keeps its from getting frustrating.
"call me nat geo cuz i have a lot of gorgeous issues" sent me into a fit of cackling
"I have a phone"
"You keep it on silent"
@@sonicfanboy3375 That was a great part to me.
Mostly because I do keep my phone on silent.
I think a good twist on this trope is when the dreams are nonsensical and bizarre at first glance, but in reality are allegorical reflections of what a character goes through.
The person having the dream doesn't get it at first, but when the events of the story play-out in similar fashion, the character finally gets it and is able to be helpful with their new outlook on it.
It gives readers ability to brainstorm what the dreams really meant (since dreams otherwise have no reason to exist in stories outside of comedy or a shallow stock episode), the writer and/or artist to go crazy with its presentation, and a very relatable moments of waking up from a dream and going “the hell did I just dream about?”.
I kinda got the idea from a scene in BlazBlue where Rachel tells Ragna a story about a knight trying to rewrite his story, yet the ending of it stays the same. It makes sense in that story in terms of presentation, since Rachel is basically the Watcher, but I had the idea that a character can be given that same story (in a more artsy fashion) in a dream.
Speaking of the character development coma, I loved how the BTAS episode "Perchance of a Dream", the Superman comic "For the Man Who has Everything" and the Demon Slayer movie "Infinite Train" explore the concept of the tragic protagonist who, under the mental control of a villain, dreams that he lives in an ideal reality where his deceased loved ones are still alive and he does not carry the enormous emotional burden that their deaths brought upon him, only to realize later that living in a lie hurts you in the end and the only thing you can do is facing the present no matter how hard it can be. Without a doubt one of the best ways to develop a character 👍
I was so confused to hear that a Korean boyband has episodes of a series.
Yeah, she covered that in the "Perfect World" trope.
it's a test of will, dramatic revelation, kickass "I'm stronger than your dream magic" moment (especially demon slayer), you get to reveal their heart's desire, play around with what the world would be like without their heroics. It's oh so very good on oh so many layers.
Dude when Mad Hatter is on the floor begging of Batman "why couldn't you just be happy?!" and Batman's like "The truth is more important."
Batman: Unburied is pretty good with that too
On my most recent rewatch of ATLA a few years ago I found that The Earth King was my favorite episode (for many reasons) including how much I loved Zuko's tossing and turning scenes. People love the dream sequences but I think it's the real life portions with Zuko and Iroh that sell it. The relatability and intensity of his physical and mental sickness (shirtless sweating in bed, guzzling down water not even caring if it spills out of the bucket). How through all of it Iroh is stoic and honest about the fact that it's going to be difficult, being like Zuko's rock as the ocean currents inside him get violent. Zuko screams awake and Iroh is just meditating right beside him and doesn’t so much as move a muscle. And the fact that despite the growth he goes through, it's all leading to one of the worst choices Zuko will make in his entire life. It all felt very grounded and powerful. To me this is the best showcase of his inner conflictedness and the moment the character reaches peak "compelling-ness".
Yeah that bit is such incredible storytelling. I love it
I immediately thought of Belkar from Order of the Stick. He basically decided to fake character development so he could deal with fewer problems caused by his impulsiveness, but then started going through actual development.
He is a sexy shoeless God of war.
You know the trope
In storytelling, it's a norm
When a person's in trouble
A manifestation
Of their subconscious appears in the form of a
🌠 *DREAM GHOST* 🌠
It's not clear if I'm hallucinated
Or actually magic
Let's leave it vague
It's more interesting that way! 🎶
crazy ex grlfriend FTW
I’m gonna take you
On a journey through time and space
And in the end you you realize
you knew the answer all along
Honestly it’s a bit of a waste to be a 🛌 *Dream Ghost!* 🛌
Star Wars, at least in the Clone Wars, often has functional character development comas that take place while the character is still awake but on a strange, Force powered planet. Take the Mortis Saga or Yoda's Arc for examples. In these arcs, the characters are isolated and the planets are so strong in the Force that strange, illogical, and impossible things happen almost like it's a dream. These locations are isolated too, so only the character experiences them and when they return, it almost feels like a dream even though the things actually happened.
I think it was a very cool way to do a character development coma without actually putting the character to sleep. Lucas didn't delve much into character imaginations and dreams, he focused much more strongly on the objective and real (in his world). Even the nLucas explored dreams, those dreams less imagination and more often future events that were going to happen. So he constructed these worlds where the Force made impossible but real things happen to develop his character but these locations were so isolated that they didn't impact the rest of reality but they did impact the character who experienced them.
That's how Lucas used Dogabah as well, it's a remote world where strange things happen to Luke and he communicates with Force ghosts to develop him. It's a functional character development coma but it actually takes place in the reality of the movie.
As ever, you have the logical high ground, sir
I call it "The Ghost Gym" - when some unreal thing comes to train you, then just leaves ( or you leave it ) to never participate again.
Cool trick, worth stealing. Thank you for bringing it up
Listening to Red gush about Avatar is a not so rare treat I never get tired of.
I love when the inside battle matches a physical battle that's happening just outside, especially when you can see the awake characters fighting like the sleeping one.
Trope talk is THE BEST series on TH-cam. You can't change my mind.
Myth/Classic Summarized?
Maybe if I knock you out with this oversized club, your Character Development Coma will change your mind.
The quote in frame at 1:32 is amazing and I love it.
"Call me Nat Geo, cuz I got lots of gorgeous issues."
Once again, Avatar is the best! Also, love how this trope is basically the entire plot of “A Christmas Carol”
The fact that the Ashoka series just had it's dream coma episode last week makes this feel perfectly timed. Especially since you used Anakin's dreams in RotS as an example.
I loved that episode, I thought it was really well done
@@ThinWhiteAxeone half of me doesn’t want to take the fanservice bait while the other one is completely and absolutely overjoyed about seeing live action Clone Wars
@@sentientmustache8360 i was alright with the fanservice because it was clearly Dave seeing a chance to give Hayden's Anakin the character development Anakin got in the animated series. Dave saw the chance to bring it to live action and went all in. I gotta respect him for that.
@@ThinWhiteAxe yeah I liked the episode. I just hope they clarify if that was actual ghost Anakin or Ashoka's memory of him in her mind in the future. Because I want Ashoka to get a chance to see redeemed ghost Anakin
Counterpoint to your example of the dragon prince when Callum wakes up with the sky Arcanum - Every variety of magic in that world originates from a truth, that you have to learn directly in order to learn it. Magical creatures are born with that understanding, while humans must make it themselves. Callum was close to figurung it out directly, the dark magic was just the trigger to allow it.
"the dark magic was just the trigger to allow it" is also I think the key point.
Given the latest series, as spoiler free as I can be, it seems that the only people who have forged connections to extra Arcanum are those who also used Dark Magic.
Which would explain why it's so rare. Because Elves mostly refuse to use Dark Magic, and Humans who do, don't usually seek an understanding of the Arcanum. They just use the Dark Magic they know.
Rayla doesn't understand at all her own Arcanum.
@@madeleinedartois4689 She understands it intrinsically, she just doesn't know how to explain it to someone who doesn't. When something comes naturally to you, you generally don't learn how to teach it to someone as a step-by-step process since that isn't how you learned it.
I love it when writers use this trope to showcase a character's ideal world or nightmare. The DC Animated Universe did this all the time. In the episode from Batman the Animated Series titled "Perchance to Dream," the audience was able to see a version of Bruce Wayne's ideal reality, where he wasn't Batman, but there was still a Batman, which allowed him to spend his time being happy with his family. In Justice League Unlimited's "For the Man Who Has Everything," the audience is able to see Superman's ideal reality as well. The tragedy in both of these episodes came when Batman and Superman had to leave their ideal worlds in order to save the day. These dreams may have been fake, but the things they revealed about their characters and the emotions they evoked were important and impactful nonetheless. Besides, I doubt the audience would have been able to see what Batman and Superman imagine their perfect lives to be like outside of a dream, as neither of them are likely to talk about those sorts of things.
I remember when Batman comes out of the Dream Machine and confronts Mad Hatter by simply hissing "Why!". Showing him a reality that wasn't and could never be true was probably the cruelest thing one could do to him. And Hatter didn't even know what Batman's "perfect world" looked like, only that he rejected it.
@@wjzav1971 Oh, that part hurts so much. You can just feel Bruce's pain. Imagining one's perfect world is one thing, but having to live in it as if it were real.... Honestly, Mad Hatter's ploy in that episode was crueler than most of Joker's plans in that series.
"For The Man Who has Everything", just the title alone invokes those moments where Clark has to say goodbye to Jon, hugging him with tears in both their eyes as the world crumbles around them. It was so heartbreaking.
If someone spends more than a year in a coma, I guess that means they weren’t the Protagonist.
Not necessarily, I mean Link spent a century in a coma before BOTW, and his character development was amnesia!
@@annajensen7360It's because Zelda is the main character! Right? She's even in the title!
@@annajensen7360The exception must be if the story *starts* with them in a coma. See also: Kill Bill.
What about Aang?
And the sleeping beauty
My favourite for this is probably Callum in The Dragon Prince.
Callum's arc involves finding his purpose by becoming a mage (he chose this), but he lost his focus for Storm magic (as a human, he wasnt born with an innate connection) to allow the titular dragon prince to hatch before the egg died.
To save his friends he uses Dark Magic, which involves using the bodies and essence of creatures that have an innate magical connection. It also has a corrupting influence on people.
He proceeds to pass out from the exertion, and has a trippy dream that involves figuring out what he wants, and also learning what the Storm arcanum is (this has been his goal the entire season).
Which is funny because the powers still came out of nowhere
Not really? He had magic via the drak magic and that pushing backwith his desire ad understanding fro the weird pirate that apearently too uses magic. The breakthrough has a lot offactors tht show its hard but posible that humans can can connect there, his brotheer talks with animals for gods sake.
Its not out of nowhere.
@@marocat4749 I never said it was out of nowhere?
I'm saying I liked that dream sequence. I felt it was a great conclusion to him trying to understand the sky Arcanum.
Edit: I misunderstood, I realize this wasn't directed at me.
@@Blwbelleno it didn’t 😅 he learned to connect to the sky source. It seems you didn’t pay attention to season 1 🤦♀️
@@Blwbelle They didn't though. Its explained that magical creatures are born with a connection to the arcanum, but that it involves an understanding it.
Callum works to understand the Sky arcanum.
In defense of Dragon Prince, it really does seem like "anyone can wake up with a new power."
I'm not finished catching up yet, but I'm far enough to learn that everyone has an inner fight coma their first time using dark magic. For Claudia and her father they embraced it and came out as dark mages. Callum rejected it and thanks to the time he spent in the real world trying, was able to make a connection with the sky at the same time.
Currently, as far as I've watched, Viren is going through it a second time thanks to having been resurrected, and it's unclear if he'll make the same choice this time. I doubt he'll get other magic if he rejects but it'll certainly change him. (Maybe kill him? It's been a while so I'm fuzzy on it)
Yes, there's actually no reason to think that there are lots of humans who have connected to a primal source. Unlike with magical creatures, humans don't have an innate ability that they can use. They can't just turn invisible on a full moon or something. Humans need to cast spells and spells require three conditions:
1. A connection with an Arcanum.
2. You need to draw a rune in the air. You probably also need to be thinking about drawing the rune (otherwise Callum would just always be drawing white lines).
3. You need to speak a specific draconic word in order to release the spell.
It's entirely possible that normal people have come to understand one of the primal sources but they never tried casting spells or speaking draconic. Villads for instance, likely understood the sky Arcanum but he's never actually tried casting a spell.
viren didn't try to connect to any arcanum like he just completely rejected magic as a whole in his dream because he saw the consequences of his previous actions on there. he didn't actually try, in comparison to callum, to connect to an arcanum because he just completely gave up on it and any use it might have
5:40 "I fly now" love these tidbit plots
_Yes,_ the Owl House being used more as a Trope Talk example! Can't wait for a future Trope Talk or even Detail Diatribe to analyze it in-depth! Hope you get around to watching Amphibia, too, Red. It's a bit more episodic than the Owl House and may be a slog to go through, especially for people who are only in for the plot but it is important for character development. It's worth it, I promise!
Ahh character development dreams. Can be done very well and I do like a lot of them. Though I really hate when it’s done badly. Thank you red for talking about this trope.
I love the idea of waking up from the nap with neither a bad or good lesson, just a silly one.
Like if Zuko saw that reflection of Aang and determined that he was the avatar
Or Samurai Jack woke up and determined Cats were the secret to defeating Aku
Cats do tend to be the bane of otherworldly entities.
I want to shoutout Jujutsu Kaisen, for having one of the best character development coma sequences I've seen, while the character in question was dead.
Great anime.
It's amazing how well you take 'vibes' from tropes/book series and turn it into a breakdown with rules and explanations. It makes it feel like I can write something neat.
It's nice to see She-Ra still being a prime discussion point for these Trope Talks 😊
Especially since nobody on the internet seems to notice that this show exists.
Just made me smile. Love that show so much.
@@wjzav1971 which is surprising, i sorta get a little why (some of it wasn't done as well as it could've been) but it was still a good show. I enjoy watching it.
@@wjzav1971ha! 😂 that’s a lie
Profile pic checks out. 😁
As a Star Wars fan, I can say that the timing of this video is interesting...
hehehe
Somehow Palpatine has awoken... and episodes 4 to 9 were just a dream. 😊
Yeah, someone’s been watching Ahsoka.
Speaking of Dreams I feel like both The man who has Everything from Superman and Puhoy from Adventure time play this idea quite well. Superman being so caring that even a fake world has meaning and value to him, while Finns whole life in another world, his wife and family asks him if he ever returns not to forget them, Finn wakes up and cant remember anything. I honestly cant tell if thats more terrifying in the sense that dream tropes tend to overlap with simulation threory and Thulpa ideas.
I recently binged Attack on Titan and I feel like "character development coma" is a pretty good way to describe the scenes where Zeke and Eren walk through the shared memories of the Founder.
It could also describe Annie's development while she's captured, even though she's not really asleep.
I think the example of Callum figuring out the Sky Arcanum has a few things going for it that weren't really spelled out in the show. Firstly, he'd been putting a lot of effort into properly understanding the arcanum, which, naturally a lot of would-be air mages would also do. However, I think the cinching factor was his use of dark magic, which has been shown to have a kind of addictive effect, and I suspect also acts as a bit of a crutch to mages. Once you can crush a bug and hurl a fireball, why worry about being able to figure out how it works? Callum experienced that kind of magic but rejected it, putting him in the kind of deep state where he could properly comprehend how air magic works.
Of course that's almost entirely head-canon, and not substantiated by the show, but I still feel like it makes sense on balance.
Given how Callum tends to do dark magic directly before learning a new arcanum, dark magic is definitely linked to it.
Even without the dark magic angle, I think his felt earned because he was already putting the work and study into figuring it out, and the dream sequence just served as his "a-ha!" moment. "A-ha" moments like that are common for people learning new things in the real world, but they don't read especially well outside of a montage or dream sequence in media, so an "a-ha" moment in a dream almost always feels good/right.
Also Callum was tripping balls in his dream, that tends to give you a different perspective on things too
Also, i got the impression that anyone who met the right conditions can, in fact, "just take a nap and wake up with super powers". Callum was just the first
I haven't watched the last season yet because the first couple of episodes felt like a regression (rather than continuing building on the previous character arcs, but maybe that's just me), but I always interpreted it as, 1) he worked really hard at it, 2) they say humans can't do magic, (except black magic), but that might not actually be true, and 3) we don't know who his biological father is, who might very well have been an elf or something, with Callum just looking fully human.
Of course, if the latest season sheds any light on this, I stand corrected.
"Call me Nat geo cuz I’ve got lots of gorgeous issues" is one of the best things I’ve ever heard
As always I love your use of color when emphasizing different points or ideas you try to get across. In the last example, where you get a power-up after a good long nap, I thought of the Hyperbolic Time Chamber. I know they're two different things, but they essentially fulfill the role of allowing a character to unlock a new power or improve their existing ones. Plus it's like one day outside so it might as well be a 24-hour coma
My favorite subtrope is when a team of friends through magic, scifi tech or cartoon logic just straight up go into dreamer's dream and have an Alice in Wonderland experience. Usually just to extract some sort of memory, lol
A related trope I love is the "break out of the dream world" trope where the characters have been trapped in a fake reality and have to figure it out then break free. When done well it can be so cathartic, e.g. TTGL, Shera, SSSS Gridman / Dynazenon
More of these need to follow zuko's arc. Not that all stories need to treat characters like real people BUT real people dont just have a dream and wake up changed. You have the dream and then maybe it helps you to grow in the waking world but no matter how different you feel in the morning nothing actually happened and other than maybe some new mild trauma, not much has actually changed inside you. Zuko was great because he had the dream, started actung all different, and then immediately went back to his old self the second he was challenged. And yet many episodes later that dream and that moment of internal shift still plays a role and matters for his later development when he changes for real why is AtlA so well written?!
The best part of a dream character arc is when the character in itself isn't likeable by the audience or doesnt have enough time in the spotlight until all the nuances of their persona are revealed by his mental psyche
I enjoy that as well. One example of that is in 'the dragon prince' with Viren's fever dream.
Harrow the Ninth manages to be an entire novel built around the narrative usefulness of making your protagonist constantly fall unconscious, which is quite impressive.
I love how this is directly related to what's been happening in the latest parts of Aurora
1:59 I loved the story ending of Dragon Quest Monsters because the ending is literally, "you wake up in bed... and get whisked away by monsters back to the other world again, no escape"
I never heard of the “wake up with a new power up trope.” But I am most definitely using that at some point.
It was interesting seeing red and mauler covering almost exactly the same topic in exactly different ways. Red gave an abstract overview of when you would want to use the trope, and mauler gave a point by point comparison of case studies
I am suprised she never did a talk on secret organizations because there are so many of them:
-SHEILD (Marvel)
-Monarch (Monsterverse)
-Order of Mata Nui (Bionicle)
-Mages Association (Fate)
-SEELE (Evangelion)
-Hellsing Organization (Hellsing)
-Speedwagon Foundation (Jojo)
In a lot of action oriented shows there always seems to be some shadow organization taking care of stuff from the shadows that other heroes dont know about or hide from public eye
One of my favorite examples of this trope is in Ancient Magnus Bride, the main character Chise has... so many issues, but one of the big ones is self hatred and trauma from her childhood (her father abandoned her and her mother for unknown reasons which eventually lead her mother to start lashing out at Chise before eventually.... Chise gets passed around as an orphan, yeah it's dark), this is basically what the entire series is about so long story short, she gradually learns her own value, and her and Elias become close as they each teach the other about the world. This leads to a moment where she is alone, after talking with people about her self hatred and tendency for self sacrifice and she realizes that she's really free, she's her own person she can choose to go anywhere in the world, but so she decideds she wants to be with Elias and chooses to go back to where she now comfortably feels is home, the strain of doing his knocks her out and during her following dream she finally remembers a happy memory of her whole family together from before her father left, and yes I cried why do you ask... that's such a good way to show her growing up past the trauma of her mother's abuse.
A Character Development Coma is the human equivalent of turning your computer off and on to get it working again/better
Ah, great timing! I was just coming on TH-cam to rewatch old Trope Talks and what do I find? A brand new one! Thank you so much OSP! Just what I needed this evening!
This series is great, keep up the good work!
An interesting twist on this is the movie Inception, where the main characters are actually trying to have someone undergo 'character development' while in a dream
this coming right after Ahsoka ep.5 is perfect
Idk why but the "hope I'm not missing anything" comic really fuckin killed me lol 😂😂
Hey, I've been using this one recently in my D&D campaign! It is _immensely_ useful.
Now the Sleepytime Junction song is stuck in my head. Excellent choice!
9:23 Shout out to the Warrior (cats) series where God, who in this series is basically every character who has died up to that point, sends the characters a prophetic dream or sign of something and the characters always take it in the most infuriatingly wrong way possible because the dreams are always vague as shit for no reason other than to create drama.
OSP: Where the writing and voice work is so good you could enjoy listening while you did something else, but the animation is so good you'd be a fool to miss it.
Red mentioned sleepy time junction, and so every time she was like "and here is how you wallop the characters in their mind", I heard "the plot: ALL ABOARD!!!!"
Yay! I wasn't the only one. I hope Red has seen the animation by Penniless Ragamuffin and mixed by MasterSword. It is too cute!
Thanks for the vid :D Always nice seeing another trope talk ^^
Now I know what this trope is! I couldn't figure it out for so long, just based on the title, but it's a trope I've seen all over the place. Great video as always, Red! [PS Please do Heroic Sacrifices!]
[Or unicorns, since you did dragons already, that'd be nice, too.]
Unicorns are really minor characters. Showing up in Blade Runner, to let you know you're in a dream. In 'Mister Nobody' to let you know you're in Heaven.
As toys.
In Harry Potter, being hunted.
Fighting a lion, for the crown.
Failing to get onto Noah's Arc.
They only get to be among the main-characters, in My Little Pony,
and in The Apprentice Adept book series (1980) by Piers Anthony.
@@Mecharnie_Dobbs I didn't mean only as characters, I meant as a mythic or folklore concept. Besides that, The Last Unicorn at the very least is one story with a unicorn as a protagonist, and most of the major characters in the Firebringer trilogy are unicorns.
Ah, so your comment wasn't meant for Trope Talk, but for Miscellaneous Myths. My confusion is understandable though.
It's funny looking at this trope talk considering how recently it was used in Aurora. It's fun to spot exactly what you're talking about.
This is why the “mental landscape” works better sometimes IMO. Like you used Bleach as an example but everything that happened there was 100% real and will have consequences. Another shounen example was the times Naruto fought the 9 tails. Yes, it was inside his mental landscape but everything inside there was real.
Yeah, this weird off-color version of you is an obvious metaphor for your inner demons, but is also actually a Hollow and will actually kill you if you can't figure out how to use your Zanpakuto
"Dreamland" is my favorite Archer arc. There are few shows that I watch more than once, and I've fully watched this 4 times. The differences in Archer's character was substantiated in a reality subtext that applied to both the character and the cast. It didn't have an 'all just a dream' deflation because it was apparent from the beginning, which did not detract from the dramatic tension.
That one, more than any of the other coma seasons goes into Archer's character. I love the others for what they are (especially 1999), but Dreamland just has more heart.
Archer is the only 'adult' cartoon or maybe even 'adult' show that I enjoy. But I have only been able to watch it by chance when I am flipping through the channels. I loved the dreamland arc. The show has sophistication and heart. And I love the little details of this arc such as the fact that Lana is so beautiful. (Not that she isn't normally, but I just think this is exactly how Archer would see Lana in his dream.)
Hmm, I wonder what Red could have recently written that might have inspired this trope talk...
(I'm loving Aurora, by the way. Big thanks to the person posting the alt text for mobile users!)
You’re welcome.
My favourite version of this trope was in Tengen Toppa Gurren Lagann where Anti Spiral knocks everyone into a multiverse labyrinth and unintentionally starts the Character Development Coma episode. Bonus points because this isn't technically character development coma if you think about it-because Simon at this point had nothing to develop anymore and immediately bursts through the Development Coma.
The one in The Dragon Prince makes sense because the arcanums are established to come from fully grasping the element. This means that it's all internal anyway, so a power-up coma where you reach a point of subconsciously grasping the element makes sense. It's about a different frame of mind
Exactly. It’s weird people are having a hard time getting this😅
@@gracekim25Watching the show didn't make understanding the element look too hard, so it seems dubious that apparently no one else managed it before?
@@gota7738 We don't know why it was so easy for Callum in this moment. That doesn't mean there wasn't a reason. Callum was in a very unique circumstance and there are half a dozen ways that his situation could not be duplicated easily. Examples include a reluctant use of dark magic in an extreme moment, traveling with a powerful sky magic creature, using then destroying (to save Zym) the sky primal stone, etc...
I've been rewatching all of the trope talks recently, so this is an amazing surprise to wake up to!
I’ve seen this trope so often yet never realized it was a thing. Even Bob’s Burgers did this!
BTW I see Callum’s coma as more of a Mystical Vision Quest.
This is legit lovely discussions of this channel to break down all sort of characters in a narrative
Gosh I wish I had character development dreams instead of weird dreams about taking a train to the other side of the country only to sit at the other station and watch the news
Just finished my first book, and am in the process of editing now. I'd like to say, thank you, to the people who make this show. It really helped a great deal.
i love how most of the time, the way to avoid screwing up these tropes is just "dont do it too much"
This video reminded me that I need to go back and reformat my dream sequences in my novel. Thanks Red, you’re a real one 👍
Dreams are Messages from The Deep.
EDIT: My favorite Character Development Coma is kind of a real life one. Mae Dean used this plot device in her comics as a way to illustrate the process of her realizing her gender identity.
I feel like this explains why over the garden wall's it was all a dream ending still feels satisfying