How to tank in Dawntrail and not lose aggro! [Lv 97 dungeon - PLD pov]
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 26 ส.ค. 2024
- What do you think are tips and tricks to help others not snap aggro off the tank? What good practices have YOU put into place or which BAD habits do you see others exercise? Let us know!
In this highlight Rin demonstrates techniques to ensure you can establish and keep aggro as a tank in dungeons -- Watch live at / rinkarigani
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7.01 PATCH NOTES:
- TANK
- An increased enmity effect has been added to area-of-effect combo actions, which should help tanks keep the attention of enemies when playing in a party.
- Dark Knight
We have added an increased enmity effect to Shadowstride, because its lack of damage made it difficult for dark knight to establish enmity at the beginning of encounters.
- Gunbreaker
We have added an increased enmity effect to Trajectory, because its lack of damage made it difficult for gunbreaker to establish enmity at the beginning of encounters.
Seems like these changes are DEFINITELY in line with my advice of PLD/WAR being able to snap aggro with Clemency/Equilibrium as well as weave space in the openers of Raids.
This should absolutely help us maintain aggro now, we'll see if it's enough to grab initial hate while DPS are doing what DPS do
AoE having "Increased Enmity" added across the board:
Paladin - Total Eclipse / Prominence / NOT Holy Circle
Warrior - Overpower / Mythril Tempest / NOT Steel Cyclone
Dark Knight - Unleash / Stalwart Soul / NOT Quietus
Gunbreaker - Demon Slice / Demon Slaughter / NOT Fated Circle
Press Tank Stance, never lose aggro ever since Shadowbringers.
You say this but there are so many tanks that absolutely lose aggro because they:
- Don't put enough enmity into targets that DPS single target burst
- Don't group enemies properly(No, you shouldn't be in the middle of them. They should be all grouped with you on the other side)
- Don't pay attention to aggro tables
@@RinKariganiif a tanks aoe can't hold aggro on EVERYTHING, including single target mobs, they either don't have stance on, or there's a MASSIVE ilvl discrepancy. And while I agree you don't stand in the middle of a trash pack, that's to make it easier for the dps to aoe, not for the tank to hold aggro.
@@WolfmanXD The concern is not once you're already knee-deep in the pull and established, it's while you're on the way to the destination that matters. Of course once you're there and doing your rotation you're going to snap aggro thanks to the tank stance modifier but it's very possible that someone burst an add down so much that you won't get it until they do 2-3-4 autos and kill someone or lock in an aoe far away and you just /didn't/ notice. There are plenty of times a tank just does not realize they don't have aggro on something which is a biproduct of the initial aggro generation which is the crux of this discussion y'know?
@@RinKarigani fair enough, but
A - dps shouldn't be using single target whole running, aoe as you run.
B - they should know wall to wall is the norm and shouldn't be dropping ground aoe until they stop.
C - they should be running side by side with you anyway, so as long as you aoe as you go, they should be fine.
@@WolfmanXD Def agree but we'll always encounter newer players learning or players who just don't care/think, so we can do what we can to help 'em along!
My advice for the DPS grabbing aggro from tanks is learn a bit of tanking. I've been playing a Summoner a lot since I started in ShB, and one of the quirks of the EW rework is that Summon Bahamut, Summon Pheonix, and now Summon Solar Bahamut all have tank-ranged-attack-style aggro draw. Add to that all of them are followed up by Summoner's highest damage attacks and I've been grabbing aggro off tanks in most dungeons since EW. Knowing how the pull is generally supposed to go has helped me stick to the tank's probable game plan and keep the dungeon moving where the Tank is confused cause they got lots of blue in the aggro list or didn't notice the aggro at all. Preemptive Radiant Aegis also a huge help on Summoner specifically, though I haven't found it to be necessary most of the time. Other than that remember to stand on top of the tank so they can reestablish aggro once all the enemies are gathered.
I DEFINITELY agree with this, imo every player should learn a bit about the other roles and how they impact them/how those roles impact what they play. It's kind of something that's easily overlooked if someone 1-tricks
I always appreciate guides like this because they teach you how skills interact and generate enmity, and there's so many tips and tricks people may not know. Thank you for always being such a great example for being a better tank
As a PLD you only need to do this.
1) You are running to a pack off enemies: Intervene > Wait 1 second > Total Eclipse > Prominence. Move to the next.
2) You have pulled the first add pack and now going for the second one: Divine Spirit > Total Eclipse > Prominence or the risk it for the biscuit version. Intervene > Holy Spirit > Total Eclipse.
3) Adds have spawned in to the fight: Throw a potion or Clemancy, once the adds run to you then Total Eclipse > Prominence
4) I am in the 93 Dungeon and the Flowers keep attacking the healer or caster. When you pull the enemy go stand around the corner, this will make the flowers move around the corner to attack you.
Keeping aggro on targets is not hard, if you have layered two attacks on a enemy and you are losing aggro when moving, perhaps the DPS should stop trying to Single Target burst a trash pack.
1) Yeah absolutely, as well as Circle of Scorn and Expiacion, Shield Lob, Voke - all of these are very useful. Total Eclipse > Prominence are your WEAKEST out of those choices but sometimes you have many adds and that's your option
2) Again your list of basic AoE combo is the lowest enmity generators so someone hitting a burst(which sometimes have timers and the DPS have to let it fly) will lose you aggro for a bit
3) Not sure what potions have to do with anything here but I guess?
4) Using LoS is something a lot of tanks don't use and should use more. What you're leaving out is that once they come around the corner to attack you you should THEN go back around the other corner and continue to do that to eliminate 50% of the autos you'll be receiving from them thus making the pack a lot safer for your healer
The very last comment is exactly why this video exists. Tanks who feel "DPS just shouldn't X" have kind of lost the ability to properly obtain and maintain aggro and need to work a bit harder at tanking. We can and should do better. The advice you're giving is exactly why we're having issues in the first place.
Also make sure we group adds. YOU should NOT be in the center of them, they should all be centered towards you. Move the pack around to make sure the highest HP target is centered so AoE splashes properly.
@@RinKarigani 2) With the increase level of threat being generated you do not need to use high enmity generators, actually you shouldn't be ever using high enmity generators until all mobs is correctly place which is when you use Circle of Scorn and Expiacion.
3) Basic Tanking 101, if you throw a potion when a add spawns the add will target you and not the healer, it is a tool that is effective in rare occasions.
4) No I didn't leave tanks should move around the corner, tanks need to learn by trial and error. You can't just give them all the answers, let them learn and evolve; just give them to the tools to do so.
You can use Arm's length and takes 2-3 steps to the side and all auto attacks will miss you due to melee enemies will always have to move in hit range off the primary threat holder. You can argue that DPS not being responsible for the skills the DPS use is like a Healer saying a DPS shouldn't be responsible for moving out of AOE. You are right we can do better, however you are one tool in the machine and each player beside you have its own role and responsibility; this is a team game and not a single player RPG.
While the mentality of DPS should hold their burst and you should not press your free buttons that you have for free isn't something I agree with - it's a farcry from the truth to say "you do not need to use high enmity generators" and then say "basic tanking 101 throw a potion to snap aggro" which does require you to be the first player to the pack or all enemies may not appear on your aggro table to begin with
an add spawns and you're not the head of the pack you won't have them all on your aggro table i.e.; if a Ninja shukuchi's past you to get the next pull going with arm's length which is a good practice
And absolutely, we don't give all the answers. I didn't exactly go out saying you can shield bash many enemies or what to do with a white mage in your party. If you knew me at all you'd know I guide people to developing the answers themselves instead of dishing it all out/spreadsheets and the like.
We can be respectful to one another while conducting these conversations so I'd say it's pretty disingenuous to be advising people to not use enmity based abilities that are literally free and to use a very niche technique with an item that may not even work and call it basic
And yep. Exactly. It's a team game. An explicit reason why these good practices are good and should not be openly discarded when they require next to no effort to execute.
As far as I experienced it only happen with Pictos when running toward the wall. you really have to register these 2 hits on the pack and can't just run willy-nilly after hitting said initial pack once or you gonna see some orange and yellow in your aggro list before you're done making the pack. Picto burst is just something else.
Yeah I explicitly ran this with a picto to demonstrate, I've done double lvl 100 pictos with my synced tanks too and didn't lose aggro at all. I've also deliberately tried to steal aggro off as a picto before with friends on tanks and yes while their burst is high it is very much a case of Endwalker having been too easy on tanks generally speaking.
While certain jobs have a high burst there are definitely workarounds and I'm glad that Dawntrail's re-introducing actual responsibility into tanking again where tailend of Shadowbringers and Dawntrail did not
Love the walkthrough! Really appreciate being able to see the methods used to establish aggro early on pulls!
Of course Bree!! \o/ Everyone will find varied results and experience, these are just a few things I use in parties with high bursting ranged dps
Do we really have to pretend like we need to use our brains in a dungeon?
Because it's the reality we're living in.
There will always be new tanks, there will always be people learning tanking or who have been tanks for a long time and unfortunately do not have good practices and don't use provoke/ranged enmity attack in dungeons. Should that be the case? No, people should be learned. But is it the case? Absolutely.
It's exactly where the "Picto burst is so strong" argument stems from - players not knowing how to properly secure aggro from the get-go.
If you've NEVER seen that happen at all then that's awesome and I'm happy for you and your parties but this video wouldn't exist if there wasn't a large amount of people who HAVE experienced this both as tank and as the nontank in the dungeon runs
So wait did you use clemency for enmity or just to rop off in the beginning pulls? Hope I'm not tripping LOL
As an enmity snap, the healing is a welcomed side-effect
Curious how, when pulling with Shield Lob+Provoke+Lob they didn't steal off the Provoked enemy - you use Clemency later, but I thought Provoke just gave you +1 enmity (on an untouched mob I'd expect that to mean just about any attack would steal the hate.)
Yeah Provoke is only really effective if you layer an attack behind it
This is old data and incorrect nowadays. Provoke iirc is a puts you at #1 + 5000 potency enmity generation, 50000 in tank stance which is HUGE and largely encouraged by the tank pulling a boss in raids to not lose if your OT has stance on.
It's also why a voke>pull is sometimes used in raids and works fine!
Actually do your rotation and you won't lose it, that's it
If there's 2 things I've learned this expansion it's that:
1) Tanks don't consider their ranged attack/provoke to be part of their rotation in dungeons
2) Tanks do not center the melee adds ontop of the ranged add creating a longer pull/loss of enmity on ranged enemy
You speak as if it's basic and easy understanding and I thought so too but it's a bit dismissive to expect no tank to still be learning. There's also something to be said if you're only doing aoe combos that a DPS may not be using their rotation to its fullest either if they've never torn something off of you y'know?
This entire video can be summed up in 2 words...
... play gunbreaker
Never once lost aggro... good luck EVER snagging something from when when I start my fight with lionheart just to make sure it's welded to me.
Man I love me gunbreaker but players will still lose aggro if they don't center adds on the ranged enemy or use their vokes/ogcds on targets being central bursted by a DPS on the way to the pull destination for sure
What do you think are tips and tricks to help others not snap aggro off the tank?
What good practices have YOU put into place or which BAD habits do you see others exercise?
Let us know!
As a DRK, I will usually voke to drag then Unleash + Flood of Shadow to make sure I'll hold aggro, and if it's a long enough walk to the next pack I'll Unmend along the way. Wuk Lamat took aggro too many times when set to dps, really messed up my tanking flow.
@@deathsythe238 She's such a precious goober tho
Yeah, I think those are really good techniques on DRK. Abyssal drain can also really help out if you don't need it for healing