This is an OUTSTANDING JOB!! from all the crews and controllers all across the Caribbean airspaces. Flight re-routings, fuel management and calculations, risk management... everyone was on top! More on top than that rocket for sure. PART 1 was uploaded with the first reaction after the rocket explosion th-cam.com/video/w6hIXB62bUE/w-d-xo.htmlsi=3kZyRFovW5c7neYI Your support is really appreciated to keep this content coming. www.paypal.com/paypalme/vasaviation
@@VASAviation it didn't appear that anyone had any idea of what was in the notam prior to it being activated and no one had done any preplanning for what to do if it was activated. All that rerouting, fuel calculations and risk management should have been done on the ground.
The fact that there were any emergencies as a result of an expected and previously notified event is not a sign of an outstanding job. The rocket on the other hand had a plan for the event. When the engines failed the rocket waited until it had reached a point where no debris could fall on populated areas (several minutes after the engines failed) and then self destructed exactly as planned.
@@gasdiveit all sounded very chaotic to me. It seemed as if it was all being made up on the fly. I also heard, the promulgated Notam was not for this area. The Airlines had no clue that this threat would arise. Space Ex and the regulators have much to answer for. Further I saw one video that was taken from a cruise liner, indicating that there probably wasn’t a Notice to Mariners either. What if debris had landed on a ship? Corners were cut and nobody will take responsibility
@@jeffbrooks8024 it shouldn't have been chaotic. There's a mandatory briefing for the activation of a DRA. It should have all been planned out. FAA57017102 Debris Response Area (DRA) Briefing
To add to this, SJU/TJSJ had a cracked square feet of concrete on RWY 10 earlier that day that caused the only active runway to be closed for about 2hrs. There were multiple diversions to BQN and STX.
Well, this would be the most logical scenario in a sequence of events where multiple airplanes were told to hold on short haul flights over the Caribbean
Ok, for any1 ever having to divert in that area and main airports are full, BQN is a great option, on West side of Puerto Rico. We used to fly in there all the time, long runway, customs and cold beer and nice beach..
Every space launch has to have a predictive debris field and submitted to the FAA. They approve or disapprove. This is why the space launch is done over the Atlantic ocean, a few fuel emergencies is better than a few hundred fuel emergencies, and shit raining down on people’s houses.
3:42 Should “rammed space” be “ramp space”? Edit: I don’t mean to dump on all the hard work that goes into making these videos. I’m trying to verify my understanding.
It is amazing how those native English speakers slam down on those that are not native English speaking when they make spelling mistakes. Most of them don't even know a second language and still feel entitled to shame those who do and try. If you have problem understanding you should read it fast and you would get the meaning of the sentence. I myselv, a non English native language speaker, speak 7 languages but I don't spell all the words correctly all the time.
Controller was so wrapped up in his own CYA and giving Iberia a hard time it began to have shades of Avianca 52. Glad Iberia said screw it, we will just deal with paperwork and repercussions later once everyone is safe on the ground, and declared.
I mean if landing requires declaring an emergency, it's not on the controller covering their anything. But controller was verbose and complicated in his comms.
@@possible_rocketsI wonder if it would have been safer for them to just not activate the fts when the engines stopped working and have it be just one singular piece to continue its trajectory
@@boing7679 Starship has heat shild on one side so it is impossible to calculate when will it explode in an uncontrolled reentry, or if it survive in one piece it will ruin whatever it will land on. Smaller debries will slow down and will have less damage, but on wider area. Smaller pieces could wound people, in very unlikely cases could kill someone, but most of it (like 80%-95%) will burn away during reentry and if u are in a building u are safe. An uncontrolled starship falling onto a building would kill everybody inside, or if fall on ship, even the biggest cruise ship would sink if a 100+ ton of steal falls on it with supersonic speed. Yes, the chance to hit something would decrease, but the impact will be much more drastic.
@@NO3V thankfully everyone did read their NOTAMS - and as it didn't cover this area, they didn't adjust their fuel levels or divert their flights but stuck to the schedules they advertised to their customers and their customers paid for.
Ibera most likely came from Spain and had been flying for 5+ hours, long before the launch. We can not expect them to be at fault for having not enough fuel! Or if it departed Saint Marten then they always depart low on fuel to get of the runway then go another place to fill up for the long journey home.
Blancolirio showed the area the NOTAM covered, a small area right off the coast of Texas. The debris field was all the on the other side of the Gulf of Mexico, over a lot of Caribbean islands, and the NOTAM did not apply to the impacted area. This is why NASA choose to launch rockets from east coast of Florida, and not east coast of Texas.
At this point it should be considered that an FTS activation might have done worse on such a large vehicle turning it into a tiny pieces. So far out and with so much speed (~14 to 15k km/h), if left intact and on trajectory it would have landed far out in the ocean regardless. Now you had thousands of pieces at different altitudes and speed to consider... Rifle or shotgun.
Low earth orbit speeds is around 7.5km/SECOND. Starship was doing 75% of that speed at loss of public attitude telemetry, 2min before it blew up. I would prefer no FTS activation in this instance as well. But then, you have a single object falling with onboard fuel and chemicals, unknown trajectory and non-detonated explosives.
2 ชั่วโมงที่ผ่านมา +1
Problem is, they might not be able to activate FTS later on, when connection is lost due to onboard damage. Which also might prevent it from activating autonomously. Accidents happen, but given the company’s philosophy of rapidly iterating, I’d say they should rethink this approach. This attitude is fine for software, where consequences of failure are failing builds or, at worst, some disgruntled users, but it’s quite another thing doing this in real life, with lives of other people at stake.
FTS usually tries to minimize the explosive forces by puncturing or unzipping the propellant tanks. The rocket tends to explode anyways (especially if the engines were still firing), but it gives the propellants a small amount of time to disperse/separate which hopefully makes the explosion less violent.
Were any lives at stake with debris 10’s of miles higher in altitude, and the FAA being super cautious as is their job? No. But they’re really cautious which is great. Alternatively you can forgo this small and manageable risk and stop SpaceX and let China get dominance in space and drop even more large rockets directly on land on purpose - that’s a really great cost benefit.
@OppositeOpinion your comment got deleted by YT, but I agree with the sentiment. That's why there's standard phraseology. It would be nice if it was used.
Clearly there need to be much better ways to coordinate and inform. Yes NOTAMs for the route were issued, but the NOTAM system is so antiquated it is almost entirely useless. I think what you see here is a lot of opportunity to improve flight planning and dispatching based on more informed decision making. People will say SpaceX's approach to testing is too reckless, but the number of space launches is increasing no matter what, so we have to figure out better ways to coordinate all of this. Great job by the controllers and pilots in this instance, but it is all reactive.
Easy as NOTAM issued and Airspace closed for that time. If that’s not possible then the launch has to be scheduled to times were traffic is at lowest. That shit put flights at risk. And I agree with you NOTAMs needs to be updated to something more meaningful cause now it is a bunch of non related staff hiding the important things.
I dunno, I feel like the billionaires should work around the public requirements instead of forcing everybody else to capitulate to the whims of a ketamine junkie.
@@RyanRuark99.9999% of people who work for space companies are NOT billionaires. Take your anti-capitalism derangement and stick it where the starship ended up. 😂
Dynamic TFR's are a mistake, this video (and the first one before it from this channel) are plenty enough evidence to prove that for my needs. Dropping a dynamic TFR on a pilot's flight path like this is just about the same as throwing a dodgeball at the back of their head and only THEN saying "Hey, Catch!". EDIT: Only difference is, if the pilot gets hit by the metaphorical dodgeball, it puts the lives of everyone onboard that aircraft at risk. :END EDIT Such things WILL eventually end in disaster, it's only a matter of time.
I'd guess that future flights downrange from Boca Chica will carry a little extra fuel. This will be difficult as launches are frequently delayed by hours, days or longer. That plus a possible downrange dynamic tfr which goes active on launch days, and highlighted when launches actually occur. At least gives pilots some advance warning for planning purposes.
Better to de-orbit smaller pieces than a large chunk of metal. Look up Skylab for an example of de-orbiting a single large structure. Sure, the debris field is wider, but there's less mass in case it hits something (people have lived after being struck by micro-meteorites) and better chances of smaller pieces to vaporize. Don't forget, the plasma trail coming off that debris field is several miles long. Not sure why they don't come up with airways to get them on the opposite side of the contingency corridor sooner than later where there's more options available than Bermuda.
For those who comment on fuel and IB379. This is an Airbus A330-200 that have been flying for approx. 9 hours. We heard only a part of this conversation and the debris area was for an area that include the alternative. Any comments about bring more fuel sounds only stupid! Do the math!
Didn't understand initially why IB379 ended up declaring an emergency only after 15 minutes on the hold until I looked their route at FR24, basically they stretched their 45 minutes of reserve fuel to 50! 😮
We don't know what other restrictions it had before the radio call we saw in the video. It can also have met strong headwinds on the long journey from Madrid
This is a huge disruption for the aviation companies and also all passengers onboard. Unfortunately, Space X will probably never be held accountable for this... as always.
Air Traffic controllers ability to convey information clearly , and concisely and quickly has degraded considerably over 30 yrs. also a complete lack of problem solving skills- Wow
It’s difficult to judge people’s performance based on unprecedented events. Sure, ATC trains for various scenarios but having a rocket explode with airplanes enroute, closing down an enormous chunk of airspace indefinitely with limited divert options…that’s a lot of nonsense for *anyone* to juggle. In Tenerife, an unprecedented event ultimately led to the worst disaster in aviation history over 40 years ago so it’s not about our time in history…it’s about weird crap happening to average people.
The Starship launch was announced well in advance, as was the danger area. The potential DRA would (should) have been briefed by all flight crews before takeoff, so as to have fuel and alternates outside the area.
It is weird that this is somehow enjoyable to listen while eating my lunch, as I typically go for something more visual then audio clips + subtitles on a pitch dark screen during my lunch.
Your winey political views are shining bright. The dude and his team are innovating and pushing the envelope in multiple fields but you're over here wanting reparations because it's not 10000% perfect. The answer is no, Karen, he doesn't need to pay for the fuel. Sounding like a grade school tattle tell.
@@khall187nobody is perfect, but making people pay compensation forforeseeable harm they cause others is not "whining" nor holding back progress, it's being reasonable.
@@twinkieerellaStorms are an act of nature. This was an act of man, that endangered life (fortunately avoided through sheer luck at first). SpaceX need to be held accountable, no-one else should be paying for it, but them.
Fuel remaining in time? The magical word is remaining endurance. Ok they were in a high stress situation 😯 but especially then making clear calls is vital.
I speak American English and Spain-style Spanish. I dislike that when native Spanish speakers speak English, they don’t pronounce the T in can’t. It’s… the most important letter in the word. SAY IT! Same thing goes for Brits.
@ Several of the British sub-accents mostly omit the T in “can’t”. I assume that the words “can’t” and “can” being separated by a single consonant that is said very briefly and sometimes omitted is why the official word for this is “unable”. More syllables contains more redundant information, which is helpful when dealing with strong accents.
@@peterregan8691 Yep. And even if all English speakers had the same accent, the word “can’t” shouldn’t be used on the radios just because of how similar it sounds to its literal opposite.
Whoa. Didn't know a Mayday was declared. If the FAA wants to maintain any degree of respect, they're gonna have to come down on SpaceX hard for this, and with more than just another useless handslap.
The launch license was for a test flight anyway knowing that something could happen. The most the FAA could do is withhold any future launch licenses until there is concrete evidence that no issues will occur
This was a known risk. There's nothing to come down on them for, they have followed all applicable regulations and the FAA has given them a launch licence.
All debris landed within the predefined hazard area. This was an over reaction by the FAA. The debris seen overhead in this area was still dozens of kilometers in altitude and at ~Mach 15-20. There was no risk to aircraft in this sector.
This is so ridiculous. Not sure if you're just an Elon Musk hater or totally ignorant of the inherent risks associated with rocket testing. Something tells me a little bit of both.
Scott Manley said it well: it looks like this was the result of the Flight Termination System intentionally blowing up the rocket 3 minutes after the engines cut out, after it drifted far enough from its planned trajectory to trigger the self-destruct. I’m pretty sure the self-destruct FTS is there because the FAA wants it there. At this phase in a flight, it is safer to keep the vehicle in one piece and have it glide to a controlled splash-down, than to have it disrupt a dozen or so commercial flights with a huge debris curtain with pieces falling at different rates and in an unknown spread.
This points out the folly of the Spacex facility in south Texas. Had this launched from Cape Canaveral, the destruction of the vehicle would have had far less effects on commercial aviation. There is a reason the US government settled on this facility in the late 1950's. This could have EASILY gone down over Florida or Cuba....
@@TheSoaringChannel it's not lithium-aluminium alloy. It's stainless steel. It's not going to burn up. The chance of it hitting an airliner is very low, but not zero.
@@sanantonio855 From 7110.65 DEBRIS-GENERATING SPACE LAUNCH OR REENTRY VEHICLE MISHAPS A debris-generating space launch or reentry vehicle mishap is an emergency situation in the NAS. In the event of a debris-generating space launch or reentry vehicle mishap, issue an alert broadcast to all affected aircraft informing them of the mishap, and, if known, the approximate location of the debris fall area. If a debris response area (DRA) has been activated, issue the approximate location of the response area instead. There is no NOTAM, only a Broadcast message about DRA activation
@@sanantonio855 NOTAM's were issued that it might explode? Or was the NOTAM issued AFTER these planes had already loaded with fuel and were already enroute to their destination?
It's intentionally suborbital just by a tiny bit so that it is guaranteed to reenter even without a deorbit burn. All Starships since flight 3 (except 7, obviously) reached orbital velocity for all practical purposes.
As much as I'd like to see Musk fail, can't say I blame this solely on him (since I'm sure he had absolutely nothing to do with rocket design nor assembly, just footed the bill). Scott Manley pointed out that there appeared to be a methane leak based on telemetry and had essentially ran out of combustible fuel. Accidents happen. I liked SpaceX because they were proud to show off their failures prior to becoming successful. Don't particularly care for them much now.
@@wurly1 🤣 Do an extensive research first dude it all in google. Nothing they do is rekless, all I see is hating. If you can do a better rocket system than his toys then you talk.
This upload shows a grave problem and how mismanaged the FAA has been. It is still stuck in the 20th century while trying to deal with 21 century problems. If the FAA knew, which they did, that SpaceX was going to launch yesterday while didn't they calculate which airplanes might be affected and inform them that there a possible situation (Flight 7 Starship exploding) that could occur. That way airplanes flying through the area that day near the time of the launch could have planned accordingly? Clearly from the the cockpit video, those pilots didn't have a clue that a SpaceX test flight might be affecting the area they were scheduled to be flying through. That lack of knowledge could have cost lives but the FAA, in it's typical way of handling most situations, didn't do anything preemptive, only bitching about consequences after something has already happened.
@@christopherhollinger901 they did a NOTAMS for the immediate launch area - presumably where SpaceX told them there was a risk of debris, which did not include this area.
I don't understand the hate for SpaceX. It was a known test flight, there was a launch license from the FAA, there were NOTAMs (ATCSCC ADVZY 032 DCC 01/16/2025 FCA RQD), there was an issue with the second stage, the debris field was likely created by the flight termination system (which is likely required by the US government), the flight path was over water specifically for this reason.
@@Flies2FLL The effect on a launch from the Cape is non trivial..... most of the time your adding 90 miles going north south along the east coast of florida within a hour of a launch. For the manned launches getting put out somewhere west of Lakeland in the shuttle era was not uncommon. The density of flights in Florida depending on time of day make this 2 sectors seem quiet.
@@christopherwhull Yevgeny, if you looked in your Russian atlas, you would notice that Lakeland is approximately 60 miles/100 KM west of Cape Canaveral. And if they had launched from the Cape instead of south Texas, the effect on shipping and commercial aviation would be minimal. And is it snowing Ukrainian drones at your house yet?
Musk should be made to pay for all this and the FAA get off their tushies and prevent it happening. Great headlines if it brought an aircraft down. Though expect he'd just pay them off the arrogant MF.
Great. If you got enough billions to throw around, you can just inconvenience everyone around you and put them into jeopardy. How i love this world...launch it off a platform somewhere in the pacific or at least use Florida to the east, not Texas -.-
It not like it was on purpose. It was certified by the FAA to be a TEST launch. NASA did the same thing. Similar risks are present in the Nevada test range. So on. Musk did nothing wrong.
@@jonchowe you act like SpaceX is a government agency using our tax money. The corporation used their own money to launch and clean up. You’re hating on Elon for no reason
So awesome that it's... Years late, over budget, has never successfully reached orbit, and has never successfully reentered the atmosphere from space. Truly awesome, in the old school sense of the word.
@@jonchowe It's the most ambitious launch system by a long shot, the only reason why it's "late" is because no one else is trying. The ship has reached orbital velocity on several occasions, they just intentionally made the orbit so elliptic that it reenters the atmosphere even if control of the vehicle is lost. Because the alternative would be a piece of space junk with half of the size of the ISS. As for reentering the atmosphere, no other launch vehicle is even attempting this, so what?
It was in space. I don't know of any plane that flies in space. The debris is stuff that was falling back into the atmosphere. Also, commercial flights use ALL routes and ones that were going to be under that area were issued a NOTAM before their flights.
Reading through some of the rubbish being posted here. As a couple of contributors noted, lot of hate being directed towards Elon Musk. Not sure if these are bots or just deranged liberals still pissed that he went all in with Trump. If it's the latter, you guys need to get a grip....really.
@@basfinnis He, as in Elon Musk personally disrupted a huge amount of airspace? And you're calling me a muppet? Rocket testing by design is unpredictable and dangerous. Why the hell am I having to tell a grown adult this?
@@marklupus nothing to do with him going in with trump. Everything to do with his company endangering life (at worst) and seriously inconveniencing thousands of lives (at best) - and to him not giving the slightest shit about that or facing any consequences for it. That's what it's about.
Wow, Iberia 0379 pulled a dick move there declaring a fuel mayday with 3 hours on board, just because they couldn't be assed to work out a different alternate to the one they'd planned.
Starship that never reaches stars.. Earth is flat.. It is impossible for plane to fly above spinning ball.. Plane flies above the plane.. Earth is a plane.
Elon Musk should have to pay personally for all the delays, holds, and should never launch again with the trajectory of the rocket cleared of all aircraft as well as no aircraft allowed within 100 miles of the flight path. Elwin should pay for any delays.
This is an OUTSTANDING JOB!! from all the crews and controllers all across the Caribbean airspaces. Flight re-routings, fuel management and calculations, risk management... everyone was on top! More on top than that rocket for sure.
PART 1 was uploaded with the first reaction after the rocket explosion th-cam.com/video/w6hIXB62bUE/w-d-xo.htmlsi=3kZyRFovW5c7neYI
Your support is really appreciated to keep this content coming. www.paypal.com/paypalme/vasaviation
@@VASAviation it didn't appear that anyone had any idea of what was in the notam prior to it being activated and no one had done any preplanning for what to do if it was activated. All that rerouting, fuel calculations and risk management should have been done on the ground.
The fact that there were any emergencies as a result of an expected and previously notified event is not a sign of an outstanding job. The rocket on the other hand had a plan for the event. When the engines failed the rocket waited until it had reached a point where no debris could fall on populated areas (several minutes after the engines failed) and then self destructed exactly as planned.
@@gasdiveit all sounded very chaotic to me. It seemed as if it was all being made up on the fly. I also heard, the promulgated Notam was not for this area. The Airlines had no clue that this threat would arise. Space Ex and the regulators have much to answer for. Further I saw one video that was taken from a cruise liner, indicating that there probably wasn’t a Notice to Mariners either. What if debris had landed on a ship? Corners were cut and nobody will take responsibility
@@jeffbrooks8024 it shouldn't have been chaotic. There's a mandatory briefing for the activation of a DRA. It should have all been planned out.
FAA57017102 Debris Response Area (DRA) Briefing
almost everyone was on top.
"Reaching their destinations became uncertain, but entertainment was guaranteed."
If that's the language they wanna use, I would request that they be a lot less entertaining and a lot more boring.
@@44R0Ndincomment was a play on Elon’s tweet.
...for us! 😅
To add to this, SJU/TJSJ had a cracked square feet of concrete on RWY 10 earlier that day that caused the only active runway to be closed for about 2hrs. There were multiple diversions to BQN and STX.
I work for Lufthansa Technik at BQN and was looking outside like what the hell is a Southwest 737 doing at BQN 😂 interesting day for sure!
I was watching the sunset at Jobos (near BQN) and saw multiple flights take off from BQN headed to SJU. It was quite a surprise!
???how about using RNWY 8??? Why was 8 not active? Do you guys know?
You never know the level of professionalism that you are going to get from San Juan Center. Sometimes very professional, sometimes not so much.
Gave me Space Shuttle Columbia flashbacks all over again with that debris streaming down.
Wow, what an impact
And now SpaceX will slam the FAA for flight restrictions that will come from this.
Well, this would be the most logical scenario in a sequence of events where multiple airplanes were told to hold on short haul flights over the Caribbean
Ok, for any1 ever having to divert in that area and main airports are full, BQN is a great option, on West side of Puerto Rico. We used to fly in there all the time, long runway, customs and cold beer and nice beach..
BQN is xtra long.back in the space shuttle days it was an emergency alternate..used to be a US military base
Ramp space seemed to be the limiting factor not runway length
Do you think Elon had to copy down a number to call?
Every space launch has to have a predictive debris field and submitted to the FAA. They approve or disapprove. This is why the space launch is done over the Atlantic ocean, a few fuel emergencies is better than a few hundred fuel emergencies, and shit raining down on people’s houses.
3:42 Should “rammed space” be “ramp space”?
Edit: I don’t mean to dump on all the hard work that goes into making these videos. I’m trying to verify my understanding.
There are lots of misspellings on this Channel's videos, but I still watch them every day.
Let's not forget Victor's first language is not English, I think he does a wonderful job with most of these barely readable transmissions.
Potato, potatoh 🤣
Thanks... I honestly didn't make that connection. I thought it was too many planes in the airspace.
It is amazing how those native English speakers slam down on those that are not native English speaking when they make spelling mistakes. Most of them don't even know a second language and still feel entitled to shame those who do and try. If you have problem understanding you should read it fast and you would get the meaning of the sentence. I myselv, a non English native language speaker, speak 7 languages but I don't spell all the words correctly all the time.
Controller was so wrapped up in his own CYA and giving Iberia a hard time it began to have shades of Avianca 52. Glad Iberia said screw it, we will just deal with paperwork and repercussions later once everyone is safe on the ground, and declared.
Exactly. "My supervisor says this" is CYA. This is not acceptable in aviation.
I mean if landing requires declaring an emergency, it's not on the controller covering their anything. But controller was verbose and complicated in his comms.
Obviously you are not an airline pilot!
Common misconception…. There is no paperwork/repercussions for declaring an emergency
I must be old -- I was trying to figure out what would cause a Beech Starship to explode and even if it did, why it would cause all this drama.
😂
liquid oxygen leak leading to pressure accumulating and blowing the shit out of the engines. Then FTS activated and the rocket go boom boom
@@possible_rockets The joke is wrong starship lol
@@possible_rocketsI wonder if it would have been safer for them to just not activate the fts when the engines stopped working and have it be just one singular piece to continue its trajectory
@@boing7679 Starship has heat shild on one side so it is impossible to calculate when will it explode in an uncontrolled reentry, or if it survive in one piece it will ruin whatever it will land on. Smaller debries will slow down and will have less damage, but on wider area. Smaller pieces could wound people, in very unlikely cases could kill someone, but most of it (like 80%-95%) will burn away during reentry and if u are in a building u are safe. An uncontrolled starship falling onto a building would kill everybody inside, or if fall on ship, even the biggest cruise ship would sink if a 100+ ton of steal falls on it with supersonic speed.
Yes, the chance to hit something would decrease, but the impact will be much more drastic.
Thankfully everybody read the NOTAMs and added additional contingency fuel just like they do if there is a chance of bad weather......
The Area which was mentioned in the NOTAMs was far away from where the debris came down......
@@NO3V thankfully everyone did read their NOTAMS - and as it didn't cover this area, they didn't adjust their fuel levels or divert their flights but stuck to the schedules they advertised to their customers and their customers paid for.
@@Energetics44110 nope..
Ibera most likely came from Spain and had been flying for 5+ hours, long before the launch. We can not expect them to be at fault for having not enough fuel! Or if it departed Saint Marten then they always depart low on fuel to get of the runway then go another place to fill up for the long journey home.
Blancolirio showed the area the NOTAM covered, a small area right off the coast of Texas. The debris field was all the on the other side of the Gulf of Mexico, over a lot of Caribbean islands, and the NOTAM did not apply to the impacted area. This is why NASA choose to launch rockets from east coast of Florida, and not east coast of Texas.
At this point it should be considered that an FTS activation might have done worse on such a large vehicle turning it into a tiny pieces.
So far out and with so much speed (~14 to 15k km/h), if left intact and on trajectory it would have landed far out in the ocean regardless.
Now you had thousands of pieces at different altitudes and speed to consider... Rifle or shotgun.
Low earth orbit speeds is around 7.5km/SECOND. Starship was doing 75% of that speed at loss of public attitude telemetry, 2min before it blew up.
I would prefer no FTS activation in this instance as well. But then, you have a single object falling with onboard fuel and chemicals, unknown trajectory and non-detonated explosives.
Problem is, they might not be able to activate FTS later on, when connection is lost due to onboard damage. Which also might prevent it from activating autonomously. Accidents happen, but given the company’s philosophy of rapidly iterating, I’d say they should rethink this approach. This attitude is fine for software, where consequences of failure are failing builds or, at worst, some disgruntled users, but it’s quite another thing doing this in real life, with lives of other people at stake.
FTS usually tries to minimize the explosive forces by puncturing or unzipping the propellant tanks. The rocket tends to explode anyways (especially if the engines were still firing), but it gives the propellants a small amount of time to disperse/separate which hopefully makes the explosion less violent.
Were any lives at stake with debris 10’s of miles higher in altitude, and the FAA being super cautious as is their job? No. But they’re really cautious which is great.
Alternatively you can forgo this small and manageable risk and stop SpaceX and let China get dominance in space and drop even more large rockets directly on land on purpose - that’s a really great cost benefit.
Big respect for all of them that time worked for aviation safety
3:37 pretty sure he says ramp space, not "rammed" space
From now on, there will be a massive NOTAM for all rocket launches
That would kill launches at day time and only allow for night, but then you wake up people. Commercial aviation surpasses a test flight.
I wonder who picks up the tab for that?
Hey Elon can you pick up this tab LOL
No he's too busy playing Path of Exile, he loves that game you know and he's the best at it
DOGE should stop all tax payer dollars going to SpaceX. They are not safe and should not be funded.
@@hallowella why do we visit the same places
We the people, of course.
what a cluster F!
"it's on your right now off your left wing"
WTF?
"right now" == "at the present time"
stupid language :D
@OppositeOpinion your comment got deleted by YT, but I agree with the sentiment. That's why there's standard phraseology. It would be nice if it was used.
Clearly there need to be much better ways to coordinate and inform. Yes NOTAMs for the route were issued, but the NOTAM system is so antiquated it is almost entirely useless. I think what you see here is a lot of opportunity to improve flight planning and dispatching based on more informed decision making. People will say SpaceX's approach to testing is too reckless, but the number of space launches is increasing no matter what, so we have to figure out better ways to coordinate all of this. Great job by the controllers and pilots in this instance, but it is all reactive.
Easy as NOTAM issued and Airspace closed for that time. If that’s not possible then the launch has to be scheduled to times were traffic is at lowest. That shit put flights at risk. And I agree with you NOTAMs needs to be updated to something more meaningful cause now it is a bunch of non related staff hiding the important things.
"An alarm that goes off all the time is no alarm at all"
why would the airplanes be safer on the ground than in the air? Is there an invisible force field i dont know about
I dunno, I feel like the billionaires should work around the public requirements instead of forcing everybody else to capitulate to the whims of a ketamine junkie.
@@RyanRuark99.9999% of people who work for space companies are NOT billionaires. Take your anti-capitalism derangement and stick it where the starship ended up. 😂
Dynamic TFR's are a mistake, this video (and the first one before it from this channel) are plenty enough evidence to prove that for my needs.
Dropping a dynamic TFR on a pilot's flight path like this is just about the same as throwing a dodgeball at the back of their head and only THEN saying "Hey, Catch!". EDIT: Only difference is, if the pilot gets hit by the metaphorical dodgeball, it puts the lives of everyone onboard that aircraft at risk. :END EDIT
Such things WILL eventually end in disaster, it's only a matter of time.
So lock the airspace from the beginning? Is that how you facilitate this?
Why have the map in the thumbnail but not the video? Why not show the aircrafts position's on the map more?
Don’t dare complain online! “They” are taking names.
The stupidity in these comments is really ratio'd right now....
I wonder if Musk will compensate the airlines and passengers for the anxiety that this situation caused.
I wonder if this will speed up the transfer of Starship operations from Boca Chica to Cape Canaveral?
Likely slow it down as they need more test flights to get to a more finalized design.
Need help with translations? 3:33 is Ramp space, no cabe el 340 en la rampa en san juan con tantos otros en tierra jaja, no 'rammed' space
I'd guess that future flights downrange from Boca Chica will carry a little extra fuel. This will be difficult as launches are frequently delayed by hours, days or longer. That plus a possible downrange dynamic tfr which goes active on launch days, and highlighted when launches actually occur. At least gives pilots some advance warning for planning purposes.
Make elon pay
Not all aircraft are "local" on this continent
Thinking the government requiring the use of the flight termination system is a bad idea at that altitude.
Better to de-orbit smaller pieces than a large chunk of metal. Look up Skylab for an example of de-orbiting a single large structure. Sure, the debris field is wider, but there's less mass in case it hits something (people have lived after being struck by micro-meteorites) and better chances of smaller pieces to vaporize. Don't forget, the plasma trail coming off that debris field is several miles long. Not sure why they don't come up with airways to get them on the opposite side of the contingency corridor sooner than later where there's more options available than Bermuda.
Pretty lights in the sky, do it again.
For those who comment on fuel and IB379. This is an Airbus A330-200 that have been flying for approx. 9 hours. We heard only a part of this conversation and the debris area was for an area that include the alternative. Any comments about bring more fuel sounds only stupid! Do the math!
Didn't understand initially why IB379 ended up declaring an emergency only after 15 minutes on the hold until I looked their route at FR24, basically they stretched their 45 minutes of reserve fuel to 50! 😮
We don't know what other restrictions it had before the radio call we saw in the video. It can also have met strong headwinds on the long journey from Madrid
Hope Saint Maarten stayed open
And of course every pilot wants to land at SXM at least once in their lifetime! (even in a 747)
It's not "Saint Marteen" :) but we know what you mean
So why bother commenting? Just want to show that you know English better than him?
This is a huge disruption for the aviation companies and also all passengers onboard. Unfortunately, Space X will probably never be held accountable for this... as always.
Even less likely now Elon has bought his immunity
Air Traffic controllers ability to convey information clearly , and concisely and quickly has degraded considerably over 30 yrs. also a complete lack of problem solving skills- Wow
It’s difficult to judge people’s performance based on unprecedented events. Sure, ATC trains for various scenarios but having a rocket explode with airplanes enroute, closing down an enormous chunk of airspace indefinitely with limited divert options…that’s a lot of nonsense for *anyone* to juggle. In Tenerife, an unprecedented event ultimately led to the worst disaster in aviation history over 40 years ago so it’s not about our time in history…it’s about weird crap happening to average people.
They have to solve problems in real time. Criticising them when you can even type with correct grammar is a bit rich. 😢
No.
The Starship launch was announced well in advance, as was the danger area. The potential DRA would (should) have been briefed by all flight crews before takeoff, so as to have fuel and alternates outside the area.
it has a 1:1 degradation with how thick their accent is
What a cluster
It is weird that this is somehow enjoyable to listen while eating my lunch, as I typically go for something more visual then audio clips + subtitles on a pitch dark screen during my lunch.
Not meant as criticism, but it is either "Saint Martin" (French) or "Sint Maarten" (Dutch).
Well they best reexamine procedures and improve things as sooner or later there will be a meteor shower. 😉
Who's gonna pay for this? SpaceX?
Another reason to carry some extra fuel.
www.google.com/search?client=firefox-b-d&q=IB379
Too bad Elon wasn't a passenger on the "Space Ship".
same thought
nobody read the NOTAM
Well next launch they might just preemptively close off the whole airspace?
I have to wonder if the airlines can sue for damages from the diversions?
I'm not sure guys, but I think it's gonna be at Iberia's own risk... lol. Jokes aside, good job to everyone!
I hope Elon is going to pay for all that extra fuel burned and compensation for passengers
Your winey political views are shining bright. The dude and his team are innovating and pushing the envelope in multiple fields but you're over here wanting reparations because it's not 10000% perfect. The answer is no, Karen, he doesn't need to pay for the fuel. Sounding like a grade school tattle tell.
No bro solely airlines will pay for it you can’t make storms pay for delaying flights
@@khall187nobody is perfect, but making people pay compensation forforeseeable harm they cause others is not "whining" nor holding back progress, it's being reasonable.
@@twinkieerellaStorms are an act of nature. This was an act of man, that endangered life (fortunately avoided through sheer luck at first). SpaceX need to be held accountable, no-one else should be paying for it, but them.
I hope spaceX pays for all of the extra expense for the problems they caused.
I'm sure they will not pay one penny.
lol imagine it was aliens
Fuel remaining in time? The magical word is remaining endurance. Ok they were in a high stress situation 😯 but especially then making clear calls is vital.
I speak American English and Spain-style Spanish. I dislike that when native Spanish speakers speak English, they don’t pronounce the T in can’t. It’s… the most important letter in the word. SAY IT! Same thing goes for Brits.
What do you mean same thing goes for Brits??
I noticed that too. Sounded like the affirmative.
It’s called having an accent, it’s still English.
@ Several of the British sub-accents mostly omit the T in “can’t”. I assume that the words “can’t” and “can” being separated by a single consonant that is said very briefly and sometimes omitted is why the official word for this is “unable”. More syllables contains more redundant information, which is helpful when dealing with strong accents.
@@peterregan8691 Yep. And even if all English speakers had the same accent, the word “can’t” shouldn’t be used on the radios just because of how similar it sounds to its literal opposite.
This is why you don't let egomaniacal man-children that don't know what they're doing shoot things into space.
Is Musk going to pick up the tab for all these diversions?
This year starts well for the Starship program🤦♂️ But well done for the ATC controllers 👏
Whoa. Didn't know a Mayday was declared. If the FAA wants to maintain any degree of respect, they're gonna have to come down on SpaceX hard for this, and with more than just another useless handslap.
The launch license was for a test flight anyway knowing that something could happen. The most the FAA could do is withhold any future launch licenses until there is concrete evidence that no issues will occur
This was a known risk. There's nothing to come down on them for, they have followed all applicable regulations and the FAA has given them a launch licence.
All debris landed within the predefined hazard area. This was an over reaction by the FAA. The debris seen overhead in this area was still dozens of kilometers in altitude and at ~Mach 15-20. There was no risk to aircraft in this sector.
This is so ridiculous. Not sure if you're just an Elon Musk hater or totally ignorant of the inherent risks associated with rocket testing. Something tells me a little bit of both.
Scott Manley said it well: it looks like this was the result of the Flight Termination System intentionally blowing up the rocket 3 minutes after the engines cut out, after it drifted far enough from its planned trajectory to trigger the self-destruct. I’m pretty sure the self-destruct FTS is there because the FAA wants it there. At this phase in a flight, it is safer to keep the vehicle in one piece and have it glide to a controlled splash-down, than to have it disrupt a dozen or so commercial flights with a huge debris curtain with pieces falling at different rates and in an unknown spread.
This points out the folly of the Spacex facility in south Texas. Had this launched from Cape Canaveral, the destruction of the vehicle would have had far less effects on commercial aviation. There is a reason the US government settled on this facility in the late 1950's. This could have EASILY gone down over Florida or Cuba....
It will... One day it will.
That would require leaving the launch corridor, and the FTS would have activated.
@@SpaceAdvocate But no diverted flights....
What a big failure for space X
the debris was like 60km above the whole region couldnt they just think logically and NOT do this whole shitshow in the first place?
But it falls somewhere?
@@VASAviation yeah, but it won't make it to the ground, most of it will burn up. There's not really much of a risk
@@TheSoaringChannel it's not lithium-aluminium alloy. It's stainless steel. It's not going to burn up. The chance of it hitting an airliner is very low, but not zero.
@@TheSoaringChannel these planes are not on the ground, they are 30,000-50,000 feet up high
So which airlines are suing Space X for losses?
What makes you think it's worth suing? NOTAMs were issued.
@sanantonio855 not for DRAs. notams only apply to AHAs
@@sanantonio855 From 7110.65 DEBRIS-GENERATING SPACE LAUNCH OR REENTRY VEHICLE MISHAPS
A debris-generating space launch or reentry vehicle mishap is an emergency situation in the NAS.
In the event of a debris-generating space launch or reentry vehicle mishap, issue an alert broadcast to all affected aircraft informing them of the mishap, and, if known, the approximate location of the debris fall area. If a debris response area (DRA) has been activated, issue the approximate location of the response area instead. There is no NOTAM, only a Broadcast message about DRA activation
@@sanantonio855not where it exploded and rained debris
@@sanantonio855 NOTAM's were issued that it might explode? Or was the NOTAM issued AFTER these planes had already loaded with fuel and were already enroute to their destination?
Another disaster from the techno king, Elon Musk. Everyone say thank you.
But how "entertaining!" According to the space genius.
Hope Elon gets the bill for all of this.
ATC created the emergency and panic! At my own risk, I got it, FU!🤬
And I thought this year couldn’t get worse wtf
My man is on top of this!
$300,000,000 subsidised firework display. Still not into orbit. good catch
This launch was not subsidised.
It's intentionally suborbital just by a tiny bit so that it is guaranteed to reenter even without a deorbit burn. All Starships since flight 3 (except 7, obviously) reached orbital velocity for all practical purposes.
Wow, they first create film 'Gravity' and then it happens in real life
3 hours fuel remaining doesn't sound like an emergency...
Iberia wants to get their plane on the ground.
@@6lemans10the three hours plane was not Iberia, because he says 6 souls on board
If the closest airport is 3 hours and 1 minute away it is.
A330 will do about 6000kg/hr, so it's about 1.5 hrs
They didn't declare
When will Musk be held responsible for not giving a shit about others? This is outrageous and needs to have servere consequences for SpaceX and Musk.
What have you contributed to humanity? 😂
As much as I'd like to see Musk fail, can't say I blame this solely on him (since I'm sure he had absolutely nothing to do with rocket design nor assembly, just footed the bill). Scott Manley pointed out that there appeared to be a methane leak based on telemetry and had essentially ran out of combustible fuel. Accidents happen. I liked SpaceX because they were proud to show off their failures prior to becoming successful. Don't particularly care for them much now.
In Elon's own words..."This is the way it is when you have F U money."
@@naieuc not recklessly endangering others lives
@@wurly1 🤣 Do an extensive research first dude it all in google. Nothing they do is rekless, all I see is hating.
If you can do a better rocket system than his toys then you talk.
All these issues because one wanna bee oligarch AH wants to fly phalic shaped devices into space.
This upload shows a grave problem and how mismanaged the FAA has been. It is still stuck in the 20th century while trying to deal with 21 century problems. If the FAA knew, which they did, that SpaceX was going to launch yesterday while didn't they calculate which airplanes might be affected and inform them that there a possible situation (Flight 7 Starship exploding) that could occur. That way airplanes flying through the area that day near the time of the launch could have planned accordingly? Clearly from the the cockpit video, those pilots didn't have a clue that a SpaceX test flight might be affecting the area they were scheduled to be flying through. That lack of knowledge could have cost lives but the FAA, in it's typical way of handling most situations, didn't do anything preemptive, only bitching about consequences after something has already happened.
@@christopherhollinger901 they did a NOTAMS for the immediate launch area - presumably where SpaceX told them there was a risk of debris, which did not include this area.
Lots of musk hate in these comments the bots are in full swing
You don't need to be a bot to despise Elon.
How much is he paying you to defend him online? 😂
😴
He’s easy to loathe. 😂
I don't understand the hate for SpaceX. It was a known test flight, there was a launch license from the FAA, there were NOTAMs (ATCSCC ADVZY 032 DCC 01/16/2025 FCA RQD), there was an issue with the second stage, the debris field was likely created by the flight termination system (which is likely required by the US government), the flight path was over water specifically for this reason.
And the effect on commercial aviation had it been launched from Cape Canaveral would be......?
@@Flies2FLL The effect on a launch from the Cape is non trivial..... most of the time your adding 90 miles going north south along the east coast of florida within a hour of a launch. For the manned launches getting put out somewhere west of Lakeland in the shuttle era was not uncommon. The density of flights in Florida depending on time of day make this 2 sectors seem quiet.
@@christopherwhull Yevgeny, if you looked in your Russian atlas, you would notice that Lakeland is approximately 60 miles/100 KM west of Cape Canaveral. And if they had launched from the Cape instead of south Texas, the effect on shipping and commercial aviation would be minimal. And is it snowing Ukrainian drones at your house yet?
@@stp147 the NOTAMS did not cover this area at all, only the immediate launch area. See blancolirio
That Musk creature seems he can whatever he pleases
He can !!!
@daveboon5992 because he's a stooge to keep the sheeple interested.
Musk should be made to pay for all this and the FAA get off their tushies and prevent it happening. Great headlines if it brought an aircraft down. Though expect he'd just pay them off the arrogant MF.
Great. If you got enough billions to throw around, you can just inconvenience everyone around you and put them into jeopardy. How i love this world...launch it off a platform somewhere in the pacific or at least use Florida to the east, not Texas -.-
It not like it was on purpose. It was certified by the FAA to be a TEST launch. NASA did the same thing. Similar risks are present in the Nevada test range. So on. Musk did nothing wrong.
Billions... Of taxpayer dollars no less!
@@jonchowe you act like SpaceX is a government agency using our tax money. The corporation used their own money to launch and clean up. You’re hating on Elon for no reason
Elon, pay up for all the delays, reroutes, fuel.....
But still, starship is awesome so congrats for that.
It's amazing how he invented it all by himself, he's got a big brain that one
So awesome that it's... Years late, over budget, has never successfully reached orbit, and has never successfully reentered the atmosphere from space.
Truly awesome, in the old school sense of the word.
DOGE should stop all tax payer dollars going to SpaceX. They are not safe and should not be funded by the taxpayers.
@@jonchowe I think you are confusing SpaceX with Boeing Starliner
@@jonchowe It's the most ambitious launch system by a long shot, the only reason why it's "late" is because no one else is trying. The ship has reached orbital velocity on several occasions, they just intentionally made the orbit so elliptic that it reenters the atmosphere even if control of the vehicle is lost. Because the alternative would be a piece of space junk with half of the size of the ISS.
As for reentering the atmosphere, no other launch vehicle is even attempting this, so what?
they had plenty of notice about when and where it would be going they should have loaded enough fuel
It's a short haul flight and they basically needed over an hour of extra fuel with how long they kept holding them.
Probably on the 10th page and as it didn't cause problems before... why would it today... 😅
@@Manc-king they weren't notified in this area.
ב''ה, how much has Elon put down on oil?
Disgrace !!! Should never be in the area that is used for commercial flights. 😳😳😳
It was in space. I don't know of any plane that flies in space. The debris is stuff that was falling back into the atmosphere. Also, commercial flights use ALL routes and ones that were going to be under that area were issued a NOTAM before their flights.
Make elon pay
Reading through some of the rubbish being posted here. As a couple of contributors noted, lot of hate being directed towards Elon Musk. Not sure if these are bots or just deranged liberals still pissed that he went all in with Trump. If it's the latter, you guys need to get a grip....really.
Don't be such a muppet. He disrupted a huge amount of airspace. These knob can't do any wrong in your fanboy eyes
@@basfinnis He, as in Elon Musk personally disrupted a huge amount of airspace? And you're calling me a muppet? Rocket testing by design is unpredictable and dangerous.
Why the hell am I having to tell a grown adult this?
@@marklupus nothing to do with him going in with trump. Everything to do with his company endangering life (at worst) and seriously inconveniencing thousands of lives (at best) - and to him not giving the slightest shit about that or facing any consequences for it. That's what it's about.
Wow, Iberia 0379 pulled a dick move there declaring a fuel mayday with 3 hours on board, just because they couldn't be assed to work out a different alternate to the one they'd planned.
Spoken like a true armchair Facebook expert. Well done, everyone is now dumber having read your nonsense.
No, it wasn't Iberia who had 3 hours, that was VPCTA. Go back to basics.
Here's Elon outsourcing the costs while keeping the bennies private.
Tax these playboys into a little humility, into joining the human dance.
musk will be paying for a while on this
What did SpaceX ☠Create Clouds of Acid Rain and Space JUNK
Starship that never reaches stars.. Earth is flat.. It is impossible for plane to fly above spinning ball.. Plane flies above the plane.. Earth is a plane.
Okay buddy. Would you like a snackie?
@@joshuacheung6518 Just make sure it's a flat one.....maybe a cracker or apple sauce.
Elon Musk should have to pay personally for all the delays, holds, and should never launch again with the trajectory of the rocket cleared of all aircraft as well as no aircraft allowed within 100 miles of the flight path. Elwin should pay for any delays.
What the hell was that?